In his Oct. 28 column, Cal Thomas compared the Obama administration’s complaints about Fox News to “dictators who desire control over the flow of information in order to enhance their power.” So, asked Jon Stewart of “The Daily Show,” does that mean Thomas also objected when the Bush administration leveled similar complaints last year about MSNBC? No. Thomas groused in May 2008 that the Bush administration waited until its last year in office to criticize media coverage. “They should have taken on the media a lot sooner,” Thomas said.
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69 Comments
My gosh! Look at that photo . . . it looks exactly like Dr. Seuss’s GRINCH! His skin even has a slightly greenish cast.
Amazing.
http://www.laprensatoledo.com/Stories/2007/121207/Grinch.jpg
Talking heads or in this case, writing heads tend to generalize the cause and effects of outcomes and ignore the specifics.
Like a stone thrown into a pond, the cause of the splash is much easier to comment on, than the effects of ripples.
Poor bush, by his last yr. he was finally losing his grip over the media, hence his plummeting ratings.
Wow. A personal attack on the appearance of someone they disagree with by CapnAmerica. Colore me surprised.
Obama could not even wait a year before he started whining that a media outlet was picking on him.
Man up! You wanted to be the President so step up to the job.
Your campaign is over and you won.
It is now time to get in there and make some tough decisions.
He should try and show the people he is more than an empty suit. Can he do it? Doubt it.
When the Berlin Wall fell and Eastern Europe escaped from the shackles of communism, I wrote that we must not forget the enablers, apologists and other “fellow travelers” who helped sustain communism’s grip on a sizable portion of humanity for much of the 20th century. I suggested that a “cultural war crimes tribunal” be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn’t hurt for these people to be held accountable.
That advice was not taken – but today we are presented with another opportunity in the form of scores of false media prophets who predicted disaster should the U.S. military confront and seek to oust the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein. The purpose of a cultural war crimes tribunal would be to remind the public of journalism’s many mistakes, as well as the errors of certain politicians and retired generals, and allow it to properly judge their words the next time they feel the urge to prophesy.
*****
Except don’t hold Cal responsible for his mistakes . . . or GW Bush’s either.
Cal Thomas is being hugely hypocritical. But what is new?
There was a time when political commentators gave it to both sides. Now they have all chosen sides and act like paid hitmen. It’s a sad day, that’s for sure.
July 31, 2003
It is a truism in politics that around 40 percent of Republicans will always vote for a Republican presidential candidate and about the same percentage of Democrats will vote for their party’s candidate. The battle is for the middle 20 percent.
According to a new poll commissioned by the “moderate” Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the group with which Bill Clinton successfully aligned himself, Democrats risk losing next year’s presidential election because of dramatic erosion in support among white males.
*****
Five years later, the rout of RepubliCONism began and continues . . .
30 Sept 2003
The Bush administration is proposing to spend another $87 billion ($20 billion for Iraq reconstruction) on top of what has already been spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. Instead, this country should be calling on Iraq and the rest of the oil-producing states to rebuild those nations. Freedom costs, but it should not just cost the United States. Those who benefit most from freedom should pay part of the bill.
According to the Oil and Gas Journal, Iraq has 112 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, the third largest in the world (behind Saudi Arabia and Canada). Only 10 percent of the country has been explored, and only 17 of 80 discovered oil fields have been developed. The money for rebuilding Iraq can be found underground there and not in the pockets of overburdened American taxpayers.
*****
Except without infrastructure and peace, one cannot get the oil out of the ground.
Nitwit.
Oh . . . and remember how Iraq was going to fund the reconstruction themselves?
It is a good example of a media outlet being a arm of a movement, both MSNBC and Fox are nothing more then the “news” outlet of a Political stance. Both are guilt of doing nothing more then spin in favor of a Political stance. Creditability is low with both, as they tend to “Report” not straightforwardly.
MSNBC uses images to deceive and focuses on the more outlandish of the other side.
While Fox tends to use selective word choice to convey a misleading meaning of what is said.
Perhaps both just reflect their viewers desires in what they want to know or believe rather then facts and reality.
6 May 2004
where was the world’s outrage when mass graves, rape and torture rooms and other evidence of Saddam Hussein’s genocide and other inhumanities were revealed? There was some initial horror but nothing like the vindictiveness reserved for the United States and Britain.
*****
Gee, I dunno. Why don’t you ask Ronald Reagan after Saddam gassed the Kurds in Halabja?
The President vetoed sanctions against Iraq that the Democratic Congress had passed.
“Obama could not even wait a year before he started whining that a media outlet was picking on him.
Man up! You wanted to be the President so step up to the job.”
No apologist for Obama here, but he wasn’t whining that FoxNews was picking on him. He was stating that they are a propaganda outfit, not a news organization, and therefore unworthy of his time and attention.
It has nothing to do with his manliness. It has to do with logic, common sense and constructivism. It’s not constructive to argue with propagandists when you’re the President.
“does that mean Thomas also objected when the Bush administration leveled similar complaints last year about MSNBC?”
———–
Talk about an apples to oranges comparison. False equivalents are also just part of the game of politics.
And CapnAmerica is lost again. Someone please point him to the Open thread.
22 June 2004
The commission looking into the causes of the 9/11 terror attacks on the United States did not conclude that claims by the Bush administration of ties between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda were pure myth, as many newspaper headlines and broadcast reports asserted. As the vice chairman of the panel, Lee Hamilton, stated, “There were connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s government. We don’t disagree on that.”
******
Well, Thomas is right about this–there was a connection.
Al Qaeda hated the marxist Saddam, and he wanted to destroy them.
Other than that, no connection.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0406/p99s01-duts.html
Pentagon report debunks prewar Iraq-Al Qaeda connection
Is there any job as cushy as a weekly right-wing CONmentator?
You just shill the right-wing talking points and the truth be damned . . .
And nevermind what you wrote in the past, you’re a paid pundit, so people gotta listen.
If Cal Thomas were a football coach, he would have been fired in his first season.
Being a CON means never having to explain having been wrong a million times in the past.
Poor Cal! He looked bad WITH the moustache. Without it, he looks worse.
Little John is right.
I should have compared the Grinch to Cal Thomas.
The Grinch doesn’t look nearly so smug and self-righteous.
They cropped the top of his head too, Jay.
I wonder if he’s still going with the comb-over.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:09 am | Permalink
July 31, 2003
It is a truism in politics that around 40 percent of Republicans will always vote for a Republican presidential candidate and about the same percentage of Democrats will vote for their party’s candidate. The battle is for the middle 20 percent.
According to a new poll commissioned by the “moderate” Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the group with which Bill Clinton successfully aligned himself, Democrats risk losing next year’s presidential election because of dramatic erosion in support among white males.
________________________________
Sadly, Democrats make the same mistakes over and over. There are some things Democrats just don’t get.
1. Democrats can’t win on their own. They have to have the support of Independents to win.
2. When Democrats do take power, they try to forget the Independents who got them into power.
3. When Democrats are in power, the first thing they do is veer hard left right off the edge of the planet.
Democrats have some great ideas. Too bad they’re incapable of ruling.
As pizz-poor a job as Republicans did for the last 8 years, 2010 will probably be a Republican smack-down unless Obama gets a clue.
Geez look at his collar! Cinch it up just a LITTLE tighter Cal!
1 Oct 2002
People opposed to the liberation of Iraq have deceived themselves about the following: There is not sufficient proof that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction or that he is willing to use them (there is and he is)
*****
Oops . . .
Just out of curiosity, XXX–
How has Obama veered “hard left”?
Back at ya later . . .
Ol’ Cal sure does look smug and self righteous in that photo, typical Con talking head.
Who does Eugene think he is kidding????
Obama is simply making a statment that Fox News, the Chamber of Commerce, Edmunds.com and any other organization mentioned specifically need to be ignored and marginalized because they are not helping him politically.
That is whining.
There is not sufficient proof that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction or that he is willing to use them (there is and he is)
——————————
Saddam Hussein being dead – that can’t be done.
Sadly, Republicans make the same mistakes over and over. There are some things REpublicans just don’t get.
1.Republicans can’t win on their own. They have to have the support of Independents to win.
2. When Republicans do take power, they try to forget the Independents who got them into power.
3. When Republicans are in power, the first thing they do is veer hard right off the edge of the planet.
Too bad Republicans are incapable of ruling.
See how that works both ways? If you’re honest with yourself, you will see that it does. Neither of these parties is listening to the people. It is party over country. Don’t kid yourself into thinking the Republicans care anymore about you then the Democrats care about me.
This is the only logical conclusion that we can come to when we look at the way things have worked over the past thirty years in this country. It’s time to stop arguing over a contrived division and start coming together to take our government back.
That is, unless it’s more important to be “right” or to be a “winner” than it is to have a free, unified country that works together.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:36 am | Permalink
Just out of curiosity, XXX–
How has Obama veered “hard left”?
____________________________
Not so much Obama, Capn. It’s some of his minions that worry me.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:09 am | Permalink
*****
Five years later, the rout of RepubliCONism began and continues . . .
—————————————————-
You might want to tune into some election coverage today.
That is, unless it’s more important to be “right” or to be a “winner” than it is to have a free, unified country that works together
—————————————————-
Sadly Eugene most that post here either can’t or won’t see the simple fact you have so aptly stated
Look at that sour, sick smile. He must be watching an eviction.
EugeneDebs
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
___________________________
Uh, let’s try for some originality.
It’s time to stop arguing over a contrived division
OK, Eugene.
We can start this new effort of unification with you agreeing with me. In exchange, you can pick the name the unified party that brings this country altogether. Deal?
There is so much forgotten history in the US. Like Eugene Debs, who ran for president as a socialist in 1920 from prison and got almost a million votes.
He was a labor organizer, and so active in the Pullman Strike of 1896 that it became known as “Deb’s Rebellion.” The government sent in troops, 13 strikers were killed, and Debs was arrested.
______________________________
You’ve picked quite a nic there, eugene.
Wrong + Wrong = Right
Wrong + Wrong = Right
Corollary
If Bush did it too, then it’s ok for Obama to do the same thing.
Change? Or More of the Same?
If Fox is not worth his time why does he talk about them? What has he done outside of just spending money, taking over banks (now government banks), taking over automobile companies (upset because he could not get Ford who just showed a $1 Billion profit, while the government owned companies are sucking eggs),and spend $24,000 per car in his cash for clunkers (what a joke).
He now wants to socialize healthcare in the United States. He does not want people to have real options.
He spends more time criticizing the United States than he does praising it as he prances around the world.
He does spend a great deal of time praising the leaders of communist countries and enemies for many, many years.
“Obama is simply making a statment that Fox News, the Chamber of Commerce, Edmunds.com and any other organization mentioned specifically need to be ignored and marginalized because they are not helping him politically.
That is whining.”
It would be- if that were what he said. But it’s not. Twisting someone’s words to fit your argument doesn’t win the argument for you.
outlander
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:21 am | Permalink
“does that mean Thomas also objected when the Bush administration leveled similar complaints last year about MSNBC?”
———–
Talk about an apples to oranges comparison. False equivalents are also just part of the game of politics.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=–=-=-=–=-=-=-=-=-==–=-=-=–==
In what ways are the complaints against MSNBC and FOX News substantively different? Why do you say that it is an apples to oranges comparison?
“If Fox is not worth his time why does he talk about them?”
He doesn’t. He’s not the one that is going on and on about this issue. Fox is and you are.
“What has he done outside of just spending money, taking over banks (now government banks), taking over automobile companies (upset because he could not get Ford who just showed a $1 Billion profit, while the government owned companies are sucking eggs),and spend $24,000 per car in his cash for clunkers (what a joke).”
Nothing you have said here makes any sense. The government doesn’t own the banks or the car companies. Cash for clunkers is mostly responsible for the profit shown last quarter, according to Ford Motor Company. You have contradicted yourself and made false arguments.
“He now wants to socialize healthcare in the United States. He does not want people to have real options.”
Healthcare is already partially “socialized,” as you call it. The PUBLIC OPTION is so named because it gives people the OPTION of BUYING IN to a government-run system.
Nothing else that you said in your post is based in fact, but is all your opinion. Which you are welcome to. I certainly don’t see much change from Bush myself, but everyone has their own opinion.
“Obama is simply making a statment that Fox News, the Chamber of Commerce, Edmunds.com and any other organization mentioned specifically need to be ignored and marginalized because…..
Yes Eugene, what followed was in my own words (as if I was saying otherwise). There is no argument that Obama wants people to ignore Fox News and other groups that his administration has specifically mentioned.
He can make all the “statements” he wants about them being propaganda. However, without citing evidence to show that news program is a propaganda machine, it just serves to show that Obama himself is propagandist.
You can take that as a statement, not a whine. So it has to be true.
EugeneDebs
Posted November 3, 2009 at 11:13 am | Permalink
“If Fox is not worth his time why does he talk about them?”
He doesn’t. He’s not the one that is going on and on about this issue. Fox is and you are.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=–=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
DING! DING! DING!
Winner winner, chicken dinner!
EugeneDebs
Posted November 3, 2009 at 11:13 am | Permalink
“If Fox is not worth his time why does he talk about them?”
He doesn’t. He’s not the one that is going on and on about this issue. Fox is and you are.
====================
Actually, O’BAMA’s staff has talked about it quite a bit.
They are the ones who brought it up after all.
Jimbo,
“If Bush did it too, then it’s ok for Obama to do the same thing.”
Legally it’s called precedent; that’s why you should’ve kept your boy on a shorter leash.
The federal government and the union own the auto companies. I do not remember the break down with the federal government and the banks.
If the federal government does not own these how can they dictate what the salaries should or should not be? (yes they are doing just that)
His health care is a mandate not an option. (read the bill).
Wow, this discussion is really going nowhere fast.
It’s so refreshing that the best defense of Obama is that Bush did it too….in fact since Obama is doing what Bush did, it’s actually Bush’s fault!
Any other stretches of logic out there???
This “far left” leftist (American first and always though) loves the fact that Obama is taking on the right-wing spin machine.
These people ruined Carter, ruined Kerry’s presidential bid, almost ruined Clinton and now they’re conducting business-as-usual against all things Obama.
Thank God we’ve got a President who pushes back for once.
Interesting that Cap’n describes himself as a leftist first then followed by American.
In what ways are the complaints against MSNBC and FOX News substantively different? Why do you say that it is an apples to oranges comparison?
—————
It’s not the complaints Daniel, it is what was in the action taken. It was in the concerted effort by the obama administration to marginalize and demonize Fox News. To contend that they weren’t a news organization, to ask other news orgs to join them etc…
That is easily distinguished from just complaining about perceived biased coverage.
False equivalent.
bush spoon fed the media and hired commentators, don’t think there’s any comparison.
17 April 2007 CAL THOMAS wrote:
I have no idea whether Fred Thompson, former senator from Tennessee, will run for the Republican nomination for president, but he should.
He has Ronald Reagan’s communication skills and speaks plainly in ways most people can understand. Anyone who has listened to him substitute for Paul Harvey on ABC News Radio senses that, in this, he follows in Reagan’s footsteps. Radio is an intimate medium. People who are able to connect with a radio audience often can connect on TV and in person. Thompson, the actor, plays other people. On radio and in news interviews, he “plays” himself.
Thompson conveys Middle American, common sense values. When he is asked a question, he doesn’t sound as if he’s giving a poll-tested pabulum answer. Agree or not, his statements spring from conviction.
*****
Yeah, I agree. Hope Fred is the front-runner in 2010, hehehehe.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 3, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink
This “far left” leftist”
So,why not find an American Hugo Chavez to run for President?
After Bush’s election in 2004, Cal Thomas wrote:
The left has lost. The ’60’s are over. A majority of the public is tired of being forced to accept every ideology, sexual depravity and secular idea the left wishes to shove down their throats. The election showed they have pushed back.
*****
Interesting. What did the 2006 and 2008 elections show then?
Interesting. What did the 2006 and 2008 elections show then?
That the American voter is a ‘fad’ voter. Five percent swings, one way or the other determines the
flavorvoter mentality of the day.The right offers us “social security reform” — the left offers “health care reform.”
Which one is catching on with the American public?
•CapnAmerica
Posted November 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm
The right offers us “social security reform” — the left offers “health care reform.”
Which one is catching on with the American public?
—————————-
Insolvency is predicted before 2020, catching on of progressive pipe dreams will be the least of the U.S.’s problems.
“However, without citing evidence to show that news program is a propaganda machine…”
There is plenty of evidence out there. I’m sure you could find it if you would care to look. Here’s just one example-
The Project on Excellence in Journalism report in 2006 showed that 68 percent of Fox cable stories contained personal opinions, as compared to MSNBC at 27 percent and CNN at 4 percent. The “content analysis” portion of their 2005 report also concluded that “Fox was measurably more one-sided than the other networks, and Fox journalists were more opinionated on the air.”
Here’s another:
Fox News executives exert a degree of editorial control over the content of their daily reporting. In the case of Fox News, some of this control comes in the form of daily memos issued by Fox News’ Vice President of News, John Moody.
Yet another:
Scott McClellan, former White House Press Secretary for President George W. Bush stated that the Bush White House routinely gave talking points to Fox News commentators in order to influence discourse and content. McClellan stated that these talking points were not issued to provide the public with news, but were issued to provide Fox News commentators with issues and perspectives favorable to the White House and Republican Party.
If fox would just quit referring to itself as a news station, I’m sure there would be no controversy.
#
outlander
Posted November 3, 2009 at 11:53 am | Permalink
It’s not the complaints Daniel, it is what was in the action taken. It was in the concerted effort by the obama administration to marginalize and demonize Fox News. To contend that they weren’t a news organization, to ask other news orgs to join them etc…
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thanks for the clarification. While I don’t completely disagree with you I feel that I should point out that FOX has already conceded that they aren’t a news organization. Their news programming only consists of 9 hours of each 24 hour cycle Monday through Friday. When you take away Fox and Friends, Neil Cavuto, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, and Greta van Sustren it doesn’t leave much time for ‘news.’
If anything, the Obama administration was only pointing out what FOX had already conceded.
Personally, I wish all the news organizations would cease to act as if their reporting did not include the bias of their point of view. The reasons the Fox News issue with the White House makes news is because it is the #1 Cable News Channel and it is the only non-left-wing major news source.
The so-called journalists should own up to what they are and let the customers decide.
Fox News is the #1 source of news.
Correct.
And The National Enquirer is the #1 best-selling newspaper.
Both prove Menken true: “no one ever got rich over-estimating the mind of the American public.”
“dictators who desire control over the flow of information in order to enhance their power”
It really isn’t too far of a stretch to a comparison with Hitler if you ask me.
You’re really not a student of history are you, American_Way?
Are you seriously comparing President Obama to Adolf Hitler or am I misunderstanding your 8:17 pm post?
““dictators who desire control over the flow of information in order to enhance their power.”
“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
Joseph Goebbels
Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose.
Joseph Goebbels
It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion
Joseph Goebbels
“The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.”
Hitler
“To silence criticism is to silence freedom.”
Sidney Hook
I’m thinking Hitler was more forceful and sure of himself than Obama.
I cannot imagine Hitler as Obama the Whiner-In-Chief.
American_Way,
Isn’t your Obama = Hitler comparison resting solely on Cal Thomas’ opinion of President Obama’s administration? Is that really a solid foundation for drawing any type of comparison?
Here is a much more direct comparison of quotes from Joseph Goebbels and one of your heroes.
—————————-
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
Joseph Goebbels
—————————–
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
George W. Bush
May 24, 2005
Am_Way reveals the right-wing’s fascination, even obsession, with the “strong leader.”
It’s like the “stern father” they grew up with.
No grey area, no subtlities . . . just right or wrong, with us or against us, support America or support the terrorists.
Unfortunately, in their obsession with the strong leader, the reich-wing don’t seem to care where the leader takes us:
* double the national debt
* war without end in Iraq, based on a pack of lies
* more money to the already rich and to hell with the middle class
etc. etc.
EugeneDebs
Posted November 3, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink
“Obama could not even wait a year before he started whining that a media outlet was picking on him.
It has nothing to do with his manliness. It has to do with logic, common sense and constructivism. It’s not constructive to argue with propagandists when you’re the President
——
Fox News Republicans don’t understand logic and common sense. All they understand is how to bully people. And they cannot understand how Obama will not stoop to their gutter level to acknowledge them.
And they so want his acknowledgment. They feel inadequate when they show up ready for a fight and then Obama has taken the high road and refuses to get down in the gutter with them.
It’s about time these Fox News Republicans grow up. But I guess they like their Jerry Springer lifestyles of slinging all the mud in the room and then crying (Beck is their cheerleader in that arena) because they are the victims.
Yeah, right.