The liberal group Media Matters has launched a Web site that tracks the major financial backers of conservative activist groups, the “money behind the movement.” Listed at the top of the site, conservativetransparency.org, are foundations controlled by the Koch family. It reports that these foundations have contributed millions of dollars to the Cato Institute and Americans for Prosperity, “as well as to other influential conservative think tanks, advocacy groups, media organizations, academic institutes and legal organizations, thus participating in every level of the policy process.”
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167 Comments
So what??? What’s your point???
Does the Koch family and businesses not have the right to express their political opinion and fund them like George Soros???
And tomorrow gang we will have a thread telling us about the liberal groups and the big dollars moveon.org backed by George Soros poured into Obama’s campaign and the amount of dollars he used to threaten the moderate dems into voting for the Obamacare debacle.
I am sure Phillip has that scheduled.
“I am sure Phillip has that scheduled.”–okobserver
Ah sweetheart….please don’t hold your breath waiting for that.
PS: All due respect intended okobserver with the ’sweetheart’ comment.
That is a term of genuine platonic affection based on the beauty of your mind and posts.
PS: All due respect intended okobserver with the ’sweetheart’ comment.
That is a term of genuine platonic affection based on the beauty of your mind and posts.
Bed-wetting, cheese-eating surrender monkeys at Media Matters.
Hypocrisy at its finest at MM.
Soros funnels money through the Tides Foundation and other operations to Media Matters. Their goal at MM is to politically assasinate any group or individual that Soros (cough) Media Matters doesn’t like or disagrees with.
So Media Matters as a source for this topic?
hahahaha!!!
Wait,they obviously have too much money. If they have the funds to donate to an org. that the left doesnt like they should be forced to distibute it to the less fortunate(people who won’t get off their azz and make their own way.)
It’s their money they made and who cares where or how they spend it, is my opinion,same goes for people like Soros.
Snouts in the Carbon Trough
http://tinyurl.com/ygz8huq
The “Tea Party” movement has the left scared and loose footed. They need to find any and every way to detract from them. Sad, really.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_Prosperity
“The AFP is the third largest recipient of funding from the Koch Family Foundations, behind the Cato Institute and the George Mason University Foundation. Before 2003, when the AFP was still named the Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation, it received $18,460,912 in funding. 84% of that funding came from the Koch Family Foundations ($12,906,712) and the Scaife Family Foundations ($2,510,000). “
Sol,
According to the left the Tea party people are just a momentary distraction,or so they keep telling themselves,but both parties ignore this movement at their own risk.
KissMyAzz.
This whole “tea party” movement was a Ron Paul revolution “thang”, HIJACKED by a fool media Jaques off, Glenn Beck. The same Glenn Beck who was hacking away at Ron Paul at the apex of Dr. Paul’s rise.
LOOK AT THE DATE OF THIS!!!:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/12/ron_pauls_tea_p.html
Eff all of these people for continuously trying to make this a “left/right” phenomenon.
The (second) “original” tea party movement was created and managed by NO ONE. It was a grassroots movement filled by people of both and NO political persuasion, carrying homemade signs and pamphlets and paraphernalia made on their own printers at home.
Fuch the Koch people or anyone else trying to lay claim to a (once) legitimate movement.
Galddamm the GOP and Galdamm the DNC.
Pleefer posted November 9, 2009 at 1:47 pm
KissMyAzz.
This whole “tea party” movement was a Ron Paul revolution “thang”, . . .
—————-
And it will be as successful as Ron Paul’s presidential campaign.
Amen,
Look at the message of the “Tea Party” and the message of the Paul rallies.
Non-partisan angry citizens.
The Koch’s of the world are the Master Chess players, the teabaggers are the pawns of the masters.
#
Freebird1971
Posted November 9, 2009 at 1:33 pm | Permalink
Could someone tell me at what dollar figure does one one become evil?
-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
One BILLION dollars.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/18dd384b16.jpg
C’mon, CONs –
Don’t try to deflect the obvious revelation the Tea-Bagger Parties are not “grassroots” efforts.
David Koch can take his inheritance and plaster whatever he wants on as many billboards as he can buy. I have no problem with that.
But when the Pox Noise Channel and WE Blog CONs try to claim it’s a grassroots movement… c’mon.
I dunno if Soros finances MediaMatters.com or not. But never has Media Matters claimed they’re a grassroots movement. The Tea-Baggers, on the other hand, claim their bus-and-truck show just sprouted up by itself.
Well, that’s simply bovine residue.
And everyone — including every WE Blog CON — knows that.
That, or you’re so gullible to think last week’s “Obama’s Senior Thesis” hoax. (Sorry ’bout that, “okobserver.”)
Phantom
Posted November 9, 2009 at 1:53 pm | Permalink
The Koch’s of the world are the Master Chess players, the teabaggers are the pawns of the masters
Following you statement there is no difference betwteen them and obama and his minions
“And it will be as successful as Ron Paul’s presidential campaign.”-Cosmo
Cosmo, this quote of yours is the supreme example of just how dumbed down you truly are.
Yes, Ron Paul was given 3 minutes compared to 20 minutes of debate time. And during his 3 minutes (over heckling by the other candidates) he injected REAL issues into the mix. He planted seeds.
When the election was all said and done, those seeds started to sprout when the issues that he tried to get people to pay attention to back then, started becoming an obvious reality for everyone else (not just his supporters).
Now, after he was prevented from being heard by the media, you see him everyday on teevee.
Yes, I will concede, he is not as handsome as Obama nor his hair more perfect than Mitt Romney. But his ideas and brainwaves rendered him without any competition. He just didn’t win Dumb and Selfish America’s Popularity Contest.
But now, hopefully America is ready to hear cold truth and act upon it. Not just sucking down BS rhetoric and lies that they so easily latched onto in 2008.
You have a few years left to grow up, Cosmo.
Pleefer,
Worrying about the sky falling and melting ice caps is a full time job. Cut him some slack
“Don’t try to deflect the obvious revelation the Tea-Bagger Parties are not “grassroots” efforts.”-Monkeyhawk
You’re too stupudd or scared to read that link that I put up aren’t ya?
This new “tea party movement” was/is hijacked by a few money bags and mouth pieces, no doubt about that.
Vladimir Lenin said it best:
“The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.”
BUT!
The one positive thing is that it shows that America (REAL AMERICA) is waking up to the BS and regardless of who “bought” the movement, the anger is real. And you Obaamatons ought be very unnerved by it.
“Pleefer” goes full-13-year-old-girl with –
“…he is not as handsome as Obama nor his hair more perfect than Mitt Romney. But his ideas and brainwaves rendered him without any competition.”
And he can last more than four hours after a Cialis overdose without consulting a doctor!
For all of the CONs’ Obama/Messiah snarks, nothing quite matches up to what Paul Bearers think about their silly little man on the fringe of political reality.
Unnerved?
No. But forever…puzzled at how folks with so little fight so hard for folks with so much. Are you one of those bozos who says “I never got a job from a poor man!” or “They made my boss the leader just like they put the headlights on the front of the car because they’re the brightest!”?
People like the Koch’s laugh at you.
For all of the CONs’ Obama/Messiah snarks, nothing quite matches up to what Paul Bearers think about their silly little man on the fringe of political reality
I think that fringe is getting a little too close for comfort for some people.
For all of the CONs’ Obama/Messiah snarks, nothing quite matches up to what Paul Bearers think about their silly little man on the fringe of political reality
I think that fringe is getting a little too close for comfort for some people.
sorry bout the double post
The money behind the ‘movement’ is also the brains behind the curtain.
“The money behind the ‘movement’ is also the brains behind the curtain.”
Of course you are talking about Soros and moveon.org mob in the land of OZ, aren’t you.
Who was it that founded the propaganda/misinformation machine that is realclimate?
BlueJay
Posted November 9, 2009 at 2:12 pm | Permalink
Unnerved?
No. But forever…puzzled at how folks with so little fight so hard for folks with so much.
—————————————————-
The working man is does one hell of a lot better than the welfare case.
I think that if a message goes out denying the dangers of CO2 emissions, and that message is paid for by an oil and gas company that hides behind willing front organizations, this should be known by all.
It’s especially relevant to us because WIchita is home to one of the nearly secret funders.
BJ, MH,
You flucks voted for a cult of personality. You voted for words.
I’m hoping that the “fringe of political reality” will be hitting you folks dead in the face next election.
Yes, the Senate will vote for the health takeover, but you will be uprooted and it will be repealed.
There will come a time (soon) that the people will be done with the politics and the scamming and there will be a storm. Hopefully it’s real America running for local offices and career politicians never having a job again instead of the other option.
If Diebold has nothing to say about it next election and the same ol’ faces are voted in…I’ll concede that America is lost and is all yours to have.
And yeah, BJ, I never did get a job from a poor man. Are you hiring?
Again, I could give a flying fuch about the Koch’s. I went to the first tea party there at the airport and saw that Sam Brownback was a speaker and realized then that they were BS.
You ain’t helping your cause (to insult me), dude.
I’m not a follower of any man, myth or messiah. Sorry.
Pleefer posted November 9, 2009 at 2:00 pm
But his ideas and brainwaves rendered him without any competition.
———————
His brain seems to have been flat-lined when he praised the stupid joke called the OISM petition.
I am sorry for you Pleefer. You have such passion. But it is wholly devoted to being a tool useful for keeping the rich richer. You’ve bought the notion that a man has no choice but to work to make someone else money. Sad.
“His brain seems to have been flat-lined when he praised the stupid joke called the OISM petition.”-Cosmo
Hyuck, hyuck…got me on that one Cosmo.
You’re just a regular Carrot-Top aren’t ya?
He praised it because 31,000 of his fellow scientists agree that it’s bunk science built to make a few people rich on the backs of the many.
Good thing there are dupes like you here to preserve the power of the moneyed powers. You gettin’ a good cut?
soldevvb posted November 9, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Who was it that founded the propaganda/misinformation machine that is realclimate?
———————
Why don’t you ask who provides the science on that site, and how much they’re paid?
Highly credentialed, working climate scientists, who volunteer their time, without pay.
“There will come a time (soon) that the people will be done with the politics and the scamming and there will be a storm.”
Libertarians have been saying “any time now” since back when I was a libertarian.
BlueJay
Posted November 9, 2009 at 2:42 pm | Permalink
I am sorry for you Pleefer. You have such passion. But it is wholly devoted to being a tool useful for keeping the rich richer. You’ve bought the notion that a man has no choice but to work to make someone else money. Sad.
————————————————–
Do you make more money working or being on Government assistance?
Pleefer,
You really believe that science is done via an old mail/online petition, that used a deceptive cover letter designed to look like it was from the NAS?
The US Government has spent more than $79 billion of taxpayers’ money since 1989 on policies related to climate change, including science and technology research, administration, propaganda campaigns, foreign aid, and tax breaks. Most of this spending was unnecessary.
79 billion. On “global warming” (r)
So how much have the Kochs spent so far?
“I am sorry for you Pleefer. You have such passion. But it is wholly devoted to being a tool useful for keeping the rich richer. You’ve bought the notion that a man has no choice but to work to make someone else money. Sad.”-Bleucheez
hmmm.
I just want to make a living and I don’t want to always be working for someone else to do it. I use the “rich-richer” guy to give me a job to bide my time and sustain myself until I can learn the ropes and do my own thing.
I’m a designer/engineer and I can’t stand most of it. My passion is my music. I’m a musician and a pretty good one to boot. I don’t work for anyone in that regard, I pass or fail/make it or break it all on my own accord.
I don’t care about being rich or about material BS. I care about making enough to live and to be left alone. And I don’t want to live in a country full of leeches (either career welfare takers or Wall Street thieves, they are all the same to me). I want accountability and justice, not a friggin’ hand out.
I just want to be free to make a living and to keep the fruits of my labor that is all. And if there are those who choose not to labor, then you choose to not eat.
“Libertarians have been saying “any time now” since back when I was a libertarian.”-Agnatha
Were they publicly killing the dollar (the worlds’ reserve currency) at the time?
The times they are-a-changin’.
Why’d ya stop being libertarian? Tired of thinking for yourself?
It’s a lot easier to have thought implants via Olbermann and Matthews, huh?
I don’t fault ya, not everyone has the intestinal fortitude and spine to be their own person.
Just another day of liberal appeasement from the Editors.
Nathaniel,
Are you employed by Koch, or a Koch subsidiary?
Cosmos,
Do you really want to go down the “who funds who?” rabbit hole?
The OISM petition looks and feels pretty real to me. Snail mail would allow for a hard copy of the petitioners’ signature. Call me stupid to think that way.
In any case I was researching it and came across a website, ominously called “exxonsecrets.org” – (it’s Greenpeace).
dun dun dun.
Here check it out:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/exxon-secrets
And dig this:
http://www.rbf.org/grantsdatabase/grantsdatabase_show.htm?doc_id=617336
Cosmos,
Who are you employed by and what do you do?
Last I knew, Nathaniel was a waiter.
Cwazee huh Cosmo?
The Standard oil guy, Rockefeller, funding his own “enemy”?? Now that’s cwazee.
Looky here:
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/01/10/Exxon-chief-backs-carbon-tax/UPI-71261231623923/
But then there’s always you guys coming in to question the motives…
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/exxon-carbon-tax.php
BlueJay,
You have never really known much about me.
You only know what other people tell you about me, which most of the time isn’t true.
And the rest you just make up.
As usual the poor robot known as Cosmos only has canned answers and dumb questions. I think he needs a new programer.
Cosmo, my point on the “exxonsecrets” thing was that they debunked Frederick Seitz “speaking for the NAS” in the letterhead meant to give the impression of being connected to the NAS.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=6#src6
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/22/us/science-academy-disputes-attack-on-global-warming.html
This is all just a fools game, arguing the existence of God.
okobserver needs some new attacks, and a spell checker.
Pleefer posted November 9, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Do you really want to go down the “who funds who?” rabbit hole?
———————–
Pleefer,
Do you really want to argue that Earth’s climate is not very important to humans? It affects our food and water supplies, sea level, and many other important factors.
That’s why governments (citizens) worldwide have supported the decades of climate research that now strongly supports AGW science.
But since you seem to believe that science is done via a stupid petition, I doubt that you will understand those points.
Cosmos,
Do you support going to war with China and India to save the world?
Nathaniel, Cosmao wants us to surrender to China.
Nathan whines, You have never really known much about me.
You only know what other people tell you about me, which most of the time isn’t true.
Yet, strangely, the mysterious man-in-a-shroud known to the blog world as Nathan refuses to explain why a healthy young fella with an engineering degree still lives at home and has no job or wife.
CapnAmerica,
Why would I explain a fabrication that isn’t true?
Woohoo, listen to the CONs pith and moan as the curtain is ripped from before the man pulling the levers . . .
What’s the difference between the Koch’s funding say the Cato Institute and Soros funding ACORN?
Think hard. Think real hard.
Soros doesn’t personally benefit by supporting a liberal cause.
The Kochs get immensely RICHER ever time one of their “cut taxes for the rich” or “let the polluters pollute” policies is enacted.
And the “useful idiots” cheerfully hand Charles Koch the pliers that he uses to crush their nuts with . . .
Nathan claims that something is false but then says, “nuh uh, I’m not telling . . . ” This may make interesting in your own mind, but as for me, I don’t care if you’re king of the world.
Nathaniel posted November 9, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Do you support going to war with China and India to save the world?
——————————
Nathaniel,
Why do you seem to believe that “going to war with China and India” would “save the world”?
Do you want some more Marine war duty?
Soros doesn’t personally benefit by supporting a liberal cause.
Riiiiight. And monkeys will fly out of my ass. . . .
Cosmos,
It is rather simple.
You claim that CO2 is destroying the world, and that if we don’t act now it will be too late.
If both China and India refuse to reduce their emmissions, are they not destroying the world?
Should we not take action to force them to stop if they refuse to do so?
‘Soros doesn’t personally benefit by supporting a liberal cause.’
Capn are you really this gullible?
CapnAmerica,
As I have said in the past, it doesn’t matter what I say about myself here, it will be twisted and used against me by the likes of you and others.
Why bother?
I am content with simply saying that what you are saying isn’t true. Which it isn’t.
Okobserver asks:
“Capn are you really this gullible?”
Allow me to answer for him:
Yes, he is, if not more so.
Soros doesn’t personally benefit by supporting a liberal cause.
—————————————————-
Go sell crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
“Cosmos,
Who are you employed by and what do you do?”–Nathaniel
and
“As usual the poor robot known as Cosmos only has canned answers and dumb questions. I think he needs a new programmer.”–okobserver
cosmos is professional AGW blogger, put a really p!$$ poor one, he’s alienated just about everyone into not giving a hoot about it anymore. Even those that did care somewhat before listening to his hysterics.
Say cosmos, how many nerd protector do you have on today?
“Do you support going to war with China and India to save the world?”-Nathaniel
Bingo!
India and China’s new coal plants don’t seem to be a factor.
And this type of REAL environmental concern is ignored:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthcomment/geoffrey-lean/6418553/Why-boys-are-turning-into-girls.html
But it’s what you want…NO MORE PEOPLE.
Makes sense why this country is so effiminate and soft.
“Metro-sexual”…hmpf.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/its-official-men-really-are-the-weaker-sex-1055688.html
And never mind the John Holdren/EcoScience-denial going on.
The sterilants in the food and water, abortions galore!
Those are environmental crises too!
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=15491
—————
A very interesting look at who George Soros is. I’ll take Koch over this man any day of the week. His ultimate goal is the death of America as we know it. Under Obama we are seeing most of his dreams come true.
Interesting read.
I’m reminded of the union bill which would end the confidencial vote of workers.
Once you have their names, you can go after them.
And eliminate any and all opposition.
I’m with Okobserver: And tomorrow gang we will have a thread telling us about the liberal groups and the big dollars moveon.org
Nathaniel,
You are rather “simple”.
Military action is not the best solution.
Cosmos,
So, if China and India continue to refuse, what is your suggestion?
Time is running out. We are destroying the world, right?
Koch has built an empire through technology, development, production, work ethic, etc.
Soros as a American currency speculator, stock investor and political activist.
FACT 1: Billionaire Financier George Soros Gave $2,500,000 To MoveOn.Org Voter Fund.
FACT 2: Soros Called American Troops In Iraq “Perpetrators” And “Oppressors.”
FACT 3: “George Soros Headlined A Meeting Of 70 Millionaires And Billionaires To Discuss How To Grow The Left’s Ideological Assets.”
FACT 4: Soros funds liberal activists in the United States. “At Least 80 Wealthy Liberals Have Pledged To Contribute $1 Million Or More Apiece To Fund A Network Of Think Tanks And Advocacy Groups To Compete With The Potent Conservative Infrastructure Built Up Over The Past Three Decades.”
FACT 5: Soros and his hedge fund made $2.9 billion (yes, billion) betting against the United States economy. As if that wasn’t bad enough, this same man also has donated over $32 million to liberal candidates and liberal causes across the United States.
FACT 6: French Court Convicted Soros Of Insider Trading, Fined Him $2.3 Million. The Conviction Was Upheld On Appeal.
FACT 7: According To Time Magazine, Soros Known As The “Man Who Broke The Bank Of England.”
FACT 8: Soros Wrote That To Preserve “Our Global Open Society,” The World Needs “Some Global System Of Political Decision-Making” In Which “The Sovereignty Of States Must Be Subordinated To International Law And International Institutions.”
FACT 9: After accepting more than $2.5M from George Soros, MoveOn.org Claimed It Bought And Owns Democrat Party: “Now It’s Our Party: We Bought It, We Own It, And We’re Going To Take It Back.”
What does George Soros even do?
Isn’t he one of those evil “rich” people who just speculate on the market?
Meanwhile, what does the Koch family do?
They employ over 80,000 employees. They produce goods and services. They refine crude oil which powers our economy. They constantly develop new ways of refining oil. They provide fertilizers for our farms. They make clothing, carpet, and an entire multitude of paper products.
Exactly Nathaniel….EXACTLY!
No Soros doesn’t benefit from Moveon.org, the convicted felon benefits from global crises (that he most likely had a huge hand in creating).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/26/george-soros-im-having-a-_n_179631.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/business/worldbusiness/14iht-soros.1974397.html
I know my schitt.
Nathaniel,
My taxes helped pay for your Electrical Engineering education.
Are you unaware of the advances being made in the power field, such as cheaper and better PV designs, etc?
Wow . . . the insults came thick and fast.
It’s extremely easy to show how the Kochs’ personally benefit by cutting taxes on their immense wealth and gutting pollution regulations on their oil companies.
How does Soros benefit from “moveon.com” again?
Answer–he doesn’t. In fact, he would benefit a lot more if he backed the Kochs’ causes . . .
But don’t let rationality sway you now, CONs.
You’re the folks handing the Koch’s the pliers . . .
Corps should have free speech, as long as we know who is speaking, and where the funds come from.
GMC says “when monkeys fly out of my ass.”
Impressive riposte for somebody with an advanced degree, but I guess that passes for “clever” if you’re a CON.
That’d be too radical for the Cons. Unless the Corps can hide their sponsorship and funding, the Cons will never go for it.
Cosmos–
Nathan refuses to say if he graduated with an EE or not.
I heard he washed out of the program and that sounds more CONsistent with what I know of him.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 9, 2009 at 5:41 pm | Permalink
Wow . . . the insults came thick and fast.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I noticed that too. Lots of derision but no answers. And I was so looking forward to hearing about how Soros personally profits by supporting liberal causes.
Dan–
CONs have a hard time believing that anyone can act altruistically. They believe that everyone is out for him-herself. Soros could only be funding groups that benefit him because that’s what they would do.
They can’t imagine any other kind of motivation except me me me. It’s part of CON values–get yours and screw everybody else.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can’t produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.–Matthew 7: beginning at 15
As Nathaniel posted:
“They employ over 80,000 employees. They produce goods and services. They refine crude oil which powers our economy. They constantly develop new ways of refining oil. They provide fertilizers for our farms. They make clothing, carpet, and an entire multitude of paper products.”
Koch industries produces a bounty of good fruit that benefits society in many ways.
Soros funds ACORN, a crime committing decadent group of liars, he trades in currencies where when he wins others lose.
It’s clear who is beneficial and who is not.
“Interesting, Pleefer’s I know people just dropped to one guy with a play station . . .
Sorry to hear about your son, Pleef.”-CapnLogical
I will attempt to explain really slowly for you.
The person that I am referring to (out of a few families) fits the EXACT description from above. I referred to the singular person instead of combining ownership of said electronics to his entire household to save confusing you. But unfortunately (and I’m sorry) that I failed.
With you, there is no winning huh?
Silliness.
Wow, this site being down so long…it must have taken it awhile to thin out and evacuate all of that Obaamaite schitt build up.
Soros is a scoundrel as I’m sure the Koch family members are. But for anyone not to see that George Soros hasn’t proven himself to be a crook, that person is just plain rediculous.
If it was any GOP donating muther effer that did the felonious acts that Soros did, you all would be up in arms.
Thank goodness honesty is a thing of the past huh?
They believe that everyone is out for him-herself
________________________________
If above statement means working and doing the best you can and not running to the gov’t with your hand out and pants down,then hell yeah I’m out for my self and my family. You liberal whiners that want the cradle to grave nanny state can eat sheet and die as far as I’m concerned.
If you want a hand up I’ll give it gladly if you want a hand out F off.
Preach it Fb…
I can’t believe the America that we live in. It’s like eternal darkness, where the roaches stay out indefinitely and are brazen and proud to be roaches.
Sad part is, they’ll be the only living creature left at the end.
It’s just crazy to think that they actually believe they’ve won some great fight for justice.
I’d say they just got a gold plated shovel to start digging with.
Whatevah.
“I just want to be free to make a living and to keep the fruits of my labor that is all.”
Yeah? That’s where I’m coming from too.
The conservatives, Republicans or otherwise will NEVER get you there. Look at how self employment has been decimated since the cons took power in the 80’s. There isn’t much of an endeavor you can name that hasn’t been totally overrun by this or that franchiser. We’ve all been herded into this idea that everybody has to work FOR somebody. The only way to turn that right is to go HARD left until the greed heads are totally ruined or greed doesn’t pay like it has. You’re attacking in exactly the wrong direction.
Pleef,
As long as barry keeps promising things they will keep believing it and will come to a point when they will depend on the gov’t not only to provide their toilet paper but will expect the gov’t to wipe their azz for them.
Consider how the average American is burdened from the pursuit of his or her own happiness.
You have to pay rent to some landlord or spend the balance of your life paying off a mortgage. To do THAT you’re expected to sell your freedom to someone who takes your labor and gives you the portion of it THEY decide you deserve. That’s just for starters. If more of the average American’s needs were regarded as societal entitlements, average working people would be more empowered to engage in their OWN pursuits instead of wasting their lives making money for someone else. We can get THERE together. Separately? We are on he who has the gold makes the rules.
Ever notice on here that those who bemoan their lack of success or monetary gain always find someone else to blame? First place the should place the blame should be the person staring back at them from the mirror.
BJ,
Cry me an F***n river! Aint a dam person here with any common sense feels a dam bit sorry for you. Pity you yes. Feel sorry for you no.
You have it exactly wrong “Freebird”. I feel sorry for you. MORE so than for Pleefer. At least he’s angry. He’s just angry at the wrong people. You’re a happy serf! People like Rush Limbaugh and such laugh while you welcome their boot on your neck. You’re disgusting and weak.
The CONS are down right funny in their ignorance.
They don’t see the wheel has turned and they are being spit out like garbage by their corporate masters.
They don’t see that the world will never be “capitalist” again just like the world will never be “communist” again.
The war is over and the good guys have won.
Their masters Koch, Palin, Limbaugh are soon to be minor foot notes in a bygone age.
The times have changed and the pseudoChristian Right (ego dominated dinosaurs) are becoming extinct.
Christ IS come. Hallelujah!!!!
Take for instance how proud you are to have conquered your addiction to alcohol “Freebird”. But all you did was trade one addiction for another. Now you have “God” to tell you that everything is gonna be alright and you are right where “he” wants you to be.
In your defense, you are far from alone. People have been using religion to keep the poor and suffering poor and suffering for thousands of years.
Sat Tat Om
Existence….Consciousness….Bliss
I am who am.
BJ,
Call me what you want but I’m happy in the knowledge that I support myself without whining and crying about evil rich people.
Think what you want,Iam secure in who I am. Call me what you want I’m a producer and you are a leech on those of us who do their best to try to provide for themselves and their families. He11, I would actually respect you if you had the marbles to say hey I tried but couldnt make instead of blaming everyone else for your problems.
Thomas Frank does an extensive look into how con organizations make a mint fronting conservative causes. More often than not, the causes end up in debt to the fund raisers. The book is “The Wrecking Crew How Conservatives Rule”.
Think of the various conservative “causes”. Have ANY of them other than getting the rich richer advanced in the last 30 years? A woman still has a right to choose. Gay marriage grows in acceptance even against con attempts to make it illegal. Libertarians are treated like stepchildren and marginalized out of the party of greed.
Hey BlueBrain,
I’ve worked my whole life for others other than the last few years, and even those I’ve work for the manufactures I represent as an independent rep.
I’ve got a paid for home, no car payments, a cool 1+ in retirement savings….now where are you with your plan?
Now you have “God” to tell you that everything is gonna be alright and you are right where “he” wants you to be.
In your defense, you are far from alone. People have been using religion to keep the poor and suffering poor and suffering for thousands of years.
I don’t need your defense. Before you start spouting off about something you obviously know very little about you might want to do some reading about AA. It’s not even close to what you perceive. You can get the books free at the libray won’t cost you anything
A happy serf is still a serf “Freebird”.
“A woman still has a right to choose. Gay marriage grows in acceptance even against con attempts to make it illegal. Libertarians are treated like stepchildren and marginalized out of the party of greed.”–BlueBrain
Yeah, abortion clinics are closing down all over, 5 in New York alone just recently. Gay marriage (a misnomer) is going down the toilet (Maine Gay Marriage Law Repealed, just this month), the only places it’s legal in states where an activist judiciary has made law incorrectly, not one has voted it in.
You seem to be wrong on all accounts.
I’m dead against the idea of paying usury (interest) and dead against paying the unconstitutional (regardless of the BS 16th Amendment).
This government was stolen looong ago. And the very liberal Woodrow Wilson helped ruin the place.
Here are a few of his quotations:
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/woodrow+wilson
After he signed our ability to make our own money, interest free (the Federal Reserve Act of 1913) he became an American POS. And never forget the Revenue Act of 1913.
1913 was a good year for private banking cartels.
God damn forever, Woodrow Wilson.
Schitt on that man and his legacy and his progeny.
I said acceptance bawks, not laws that you and fearful people like you make to forestall progress.
Pleefer?
Is the average American better or worse off because of Republicans and conservatives?
I admire your passion. But it is a little wasted seeing as you seem to wish for the revival of the company store.
Oops that’s already here. Walmart.
unconstitutional income tax that is.
“I’ve got a paid for home, no car payments, a cool 1+ in retirement savings…”
Call it your pat on the head for being a good little serf.
But it got worse for the next generation didn’t it?
“Boxlock20″ boasts his –
“…cool 1+ in retirement savings….”
Yeah?
Well I have a cool +32 in my wallet.
Pleefer the income tax did not quite save this country from devolving into a feudal state.
It was already too far gone.
Income taxes have been reduced on the super rich again and again for the last 40 years.
How is the average American worker making out?
BJ,
As I said call me what you will coming from you means less than squat to me. I know who and what I am,so give it your best shot. I will not stoop to your level and engage in name calling any longer,so as I said go for it.
I didn’t even dignify your last post “Freebird”. You are clearly well into reacting defensively.
In other words, I hit a nerve.
“I know who and what I am,so give it your best shot. I will not stoop to your level and engage in name calling any longer,so as I said go for it.”
Ok this is a Yoda moment.
If so self assured you are, why seek reflection in my eyes?
Oh man –
CONs are attacking Woodrow friggin Wilson but mentioning the legacy of George WMD Bush is off-limits.
Glad to know the WE Blog’s new terms of service.
“Is the average American better or worse off because of Republicans and conservatives?”-BlueJay
I dunno, when one’s in power, the other claims to be working for the people, but aren’t, and vice-versa.
It’s a silly ping-pong match to me and we’re all the dumb little abused ball.
Both “sides” are lead by those with the most promising scraps to those with the least. And scraps we get.
As soon as the Federal Reserve is combed through and Wall Street bankers and multi-national corporation heads don’t intertwine easily in government and back into business, then we’ll have seen real change.
There aren’t too many folks in DC on either side that don’t have dirty and bloody hands. While I don’t agree with Kucinich on a lot of his policies, he is a man with honor and dignity and thus is easily and readily marginalized. Same with Ron Paul.
The job of a government official shouldn’t be a job that is wanted and I don’t trust those that make it their career. A career made in lying and finagling and cheating and stealing…what kind of job is that for a decent person?
So to answer your question, when the right is in power, they are just as miserable as the left when they are.
A heap of scraps and broken promises.
BJ,
n other words, I hit a nerve\
—————————————–
Believe what you will. BTW what nerverve exactly did you hit?
Calling me a serf? Hell I’ve been called much worse by much better
Consider how the cons treat Libertarians Pleefer. THEN reconsider reading Thomas Frank’s book.
Yes, I know, Michael Moore said it well.
Republicans are the party that will f#$% you. Democrats are the party that will say “I love you!” and then f#$% you.
This was not always so. And it is largely the result of Republicans. THEY have an advantage here. They get to claim Government can’t do anything right and then do their level best to make it so. Democrats have to play on that field not because they want to but because they have to. He who has the gold?
There WAS a time when idealistic young men went to Washington NOT to get rich but to serve the public interest. Read the book I recommend. It’s in there. You can see it also in Teddy Roosevelt and his administration.
If you want my attention, say something worth responding to “Freebird”.
Benjamin Franklin said, “The sting in any rebuke is the truth”.
You’re acting like a man stung.
Hey Mh send me that trow away and see if we can meet somewhere I promise if halfway is a deserted field I promise no frog marching we’ll just find an alternate mutually agreeable location
Republicans are the party that will f#$% you. Democrats are the party that will say “I love you!” and then f#$%
Exactly, not a dimes worth of difference between politicians other than the R or D after their name.
Pleefer thinks the 16th Amendment is unconstitutional? Um, Pleefer darling, if it’s a Constitutional amendment, it’s now part of the Constitution. The Constitution can’t be unconstitutional.
Wow. Just…wow.
Pleefer you have said that Government and business are intertwined. And you’re right. Where you are wrong is in how to address it.
Big business and greed are the enemy, not Government. Government is you and me. Kill Government and not only would greed and big business survive they would run amok. But get greed and business out of Government and we get back to of, by and for.
Explore it. Because passion like yours should not be wasted.
Pleefer also thinks(?) that an old petition = credible scientific methodology.
“Exactly, not a dimes worth of difference between politicians other than the R or D after their name.”
No that’s not right.
Like I said, when Republicans say Government can’t do anything right and then work their level best to make it so, the Democrats are already at a disadvantage.
There is too much MONEY in our politics. The Democrats TRIED to address that.
Get business out of Government and the people have a chance. There was a time when young people went to DC to serve the public good and not to get rich. They were the best and brightest and could have EASILY sold out. Many of them didn’t and still don’t.
Doubt me?
Recently, a rule was made to limit departing Congressmen from becoming lobbyists for …I think it is two years?
How many Republicans bailed out on their faithful versus how many Democrats?
okobserver
Posted November 9, 2009 at 4:53 pm | Permalink
‘Soros doesn’t personally benefit by supporting a liberal cause.’
Capn are you really this gullible?
===============================================
Insteqd of just posting your own unique brand of SNARK, why dont you try to challenge Capn’s position… PROVE your point, instead of just your normal b*t*hing???
I think I’ll leave it here for now.
Government of by and for the people MAY sound vaguely socialistic. But just who is it we want getting between us and each other? Business sees us as human resources and EAGERLY matches us one against another or more lately expects us to compete with the refugees or slave labor of some OTHER Government somewhere else. What is my stake in that?
What’s yours? Getting the rich richer so they will toss a crumb or two your way? Power corrupts. And there is nothing we have made so powerful as money.
I gotta go with Jay on this one.
He put forward a good case on why and how the reich-wing has transformed the “free market” economy into “free for me–expensive for you.”
FreeB comes back with nothing but the usual CON whine of “I work and BlueJay doesn’t. He just envies the rich and successful.”
1. That’s not true. BlueJay works, he’s self-employed.
2. Even if true (which it isn’t), it’s irrelevent. If the “rich and successful” are models of what we’re supposed to aspire to, why don’t the CONs admire Soros then?
The simple facts are these: the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class are slowly losing ground.
The Kochs’ and their think tanks are set-up to insure that this CONtinues to happen.
Soros and the left are fighting that, even when it means that someone like Soros might have to pay higher taxes.
It blows the right-wing’s mind . . . they can’t believe some one would sacrifice financially to help the society they live in.
And what they don’t understand, they attack.
Boxlock has 1 million in retirement savings.
Really?
I hope you don’t get something like MS or lupus.
Then you can kiss it goodbye . . .
Capn I stand by this statement if you choose to call it a whine go for it
If you want a hand up I’ll give it gladly if you want a hand out F off.
Really, FreeB–
Faux News got the RepubliCONs so riled up, they passed a bill saying that any corp. that receives gov’t money should have all that money cut off if any employee commits any crime.
Trouble is that Boeing, Raytheon, Martin etc. etc. have a list of fraud and overbilling charges a mile long.
Oops.
The people getting the hand out are not minimum wage workers who can’t feed their families–it’s effing Raytheon and Boeing.
Welfare to needy people is about one-one millionth of welfare to rich corporations . . .
Did you get any taxpayer funded help to battle your alcohol addiction?
I can remember not so long ago when alcholics were “drunkards” and their drinking was nothing more than a simple lack of responsibility and self-disciple.
We’ve since learned that “drunks” can be rehabilitated with help and that it not only benefits the person who “lacks responsibility” but all of society too.
Yes, some people will abuse any help you give them. These were the few and far between illustrations the right seized upon to cut off any and all help.
But the vast majority won’t. They want to be productive members of society and would be if they had a chance to be.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 9, 2009 at 11:58 pm | Permalink
Did you get any taxpayer funded help to battle your alcohol addiction?
No,AA is fully self supportiung declining outside contributions.
But the vast majority won’t. They want to be productive members of society and would be if they had a chance to be
As I said a hand up not a hand out
Freebird1971
Posted November 10, 2009 at 12:00 am | Permalink
CapnAmerica
Posted November 9, 2009 at 11:58 pm | Permalink
Did you get any taxpayer funded help to battle your alcohol addiction?
No,AA is fully self supportiung declining outside contributions
However my outpatient treatment was paid for by my health insurance which I paid for through my job and what they didnt pay I did.
You are imagining far more power to yourself than you actually have “Freebird”
You are in no more position to hand out than you are to hand up. YOU get handed out TO. Based on what someone else thinks you are worth. Handing up is not in your interest let alone your power. Someone else might better scrabble for crumbs than you. Or refuse to do so.
BJ
As do you
“Hand up, not a hand out” is a good rule of thumb but it doesn’t really meet the needs of the complex world we live in.
Medicare for instance is not a “hand up.” It is a hand out.
My 98 year old grandmother who broke her arm falling off of a ladder in her assisted living home (don’t ask), isn’t going to bounce back and rivet together steam boilers . . .
She gets help only because she needs help and in the richest country in the world, we can afford it.
I find no conclusive proof that “Freebird” is not just another of “Regular”’s nics.
Good night.
YOU get handed out TO. Based on what someone else thinks you are worth.
No let me explain this to you whe you are working your pay is in compensation for the work you do. And if I didnt like my job or was not being compernsated fairly,there aint no chain, aw what the f you are right BJ you are always right you have never been wrong in your life. Happy now?
Freebird says, “my outpatient treatment was paid for by my health insurance . . .”
Correct. And why was it paid by your health insurance. Why didn’t your health insurance just refuse to pay on the grounds that “you did it to yourself” or some such?
Answer–because liberals pass regulations on health insurers and employers so that workers who have mental health problems get treated instead of get kicked to the gutter.
In CON world, you would have just got kicked to the gutter and it would all be your own damn fault too.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 10, 2009 at 12:09 am | Permalink
“Hand up, not a hand out” is a good rule of thumb but it doesn’t really meet the needs of the complex world we live in.
Medicare for instance is not a “hand up.” It is a hand out.
My 98 year old grandmother who broke her arm falling off of a ladder in her assisted living home (don’t ask), isn’t going to bounce back and rivet together steam boilers . . .
She gets help only because she needs help and in the richest country in the world, we can afford it
Valid point, I don’t begrude her a dime of her money. BTW 98 years old and she fell off a ladder,she must be a pretty spry and tough lady. My hat’s off to her.
Okay, Jay, I gotta disagree with your observation about Free being a Regular sock-puppet.
1. Free is much more rational than Regular.
2. WSClark met the guy.
It’s a lot easier to believe he’s who he says he is IMHO.
Capn.
I have to admit you have given me some things to think about. You make your points very well and without personal attacks. I do appreciate that. I’m not saying I will come as far left as you might be but I think there should bbe room for flexibility.
she must be a pretty spry and tough lady
Hehe . . . that’s exactly the problem, she’s tough but not as tough as she THINKS she is.
Having a “maid” was the mark of a lazy housekeeper in her mind, and she was many things, but never lazy.
She can’t ask anyone to help her, and so inadvertantly she spends thousands of dollars of other people’s money to help her, heigh ho.
Bj,
I’m meeting Reg at Tocs 930 Wed come see for yourself
Thanks, Free.
I’m a recovering Blog flame-er. I used to slam a folding chair over the head of anybody who seemed to be on the con side.
There’s no future in that.
We’re all in this together.
Capn.
She can’t or won’t,my mom who is 80 won’t ask and I have caught her doing some things around the house that scared the he11 out of me,when I asked her why,she says I dont want to bother anyone,Sounds like we each have a woman cut from basically the same cloth
We’re all in this together
__________________________
I agree I’m not so set in my ways that I can be flexible. Althoiugh Jay ridicules the Serenity prayer I have found it a very useful tool in my daily life.
can=cant been a long couleof days
couleof
see what I mean
I also never want to get to the point where I’ve got it all figured out and have all the answers.
That kind of dogmatism is a soul killer.
You’ve got to constantly reassess what works and what doesn’t.
If tax cuts for the rich work, then I’d be for them. The evidence is pretty mixed.
I used to be all for gun control, but now I think it’s a waste of time. I’d still like to see “ballistic fingerprinting” on new guns and a few more controls like taggants, but bans don’t work, that’s pretty obvious, and it just whips up conspiracy theories and wild conjecture.
Capn,
With that I bid you good night/morning
CapnAmerica
Posted November 10, 2009 at 12:32 am | Permalink
I also never want to get to the point where I’ve got it all figured out and have all the answers.
My experience is as soon as you have all the answers they change the dam questions
she says I dont want to bother anyone
Yup . . . self-reliant to a fault, heh.
Okay, have a pleasant evening — I’m signing off.
Regards.
“Freebird1971″ –
Use jeremy_shops@hotmail.com
Bu tell me.
I don’t check it out too often.
Ol’ Jeremy keeps trying to push me into being a candidate for Governor.
I am not now — nor have I ever been — a candidate for Governor of the great State of Kansas.
The question can simply be ask:
Who’s plan seems to be working best;
BlueJay’s….who has next to nothing by his own admission, and wants the government to take from others labors to give to him.
OR
Those that are GAINFULLY EMPLOYED, not in words but in work, that pays.
The results of the two philosophies is striking in most cases.
You lose BlueJay!
“Boxlock20? boasts his –
“…cool 1+ in retirement savings….”
Yeah?
Well I have a cool +32 in my wallet.–Monkey
Congratulations Monkey, that’s more than I carry in my wallet many times. You see I’d rather save than spend. That’s why I have accumulated some retirement savings, and because I must so as to be responsible for myself as I have no ‘government’ pension paid for by the taxpayer.
And it isn’t a boast, it is offered as a suggestion for living better than BlueJay and many others here that expect the government to provide for them. I guess I mistakenly still give credit to you libs that you will eventually look around and say ‘wow…my plan isn’t working as well, maybe I should try something different’. But no that doesn’t seem to happen….silly me.
Answer–because liberals pass regulations on health insurers and employers so that workers who have mental health problems get treated instead of get kicked to the gutter.
LOL. Liberals passing legislation to take care of their own.
“Pleefer thinks the 16th Amendment is unconstitutional? Um, Pleefer darling, if it’s a Constitutional amendment, it’s now part of the Constitution. The Constitution can’t be unconstitutional.
Wow. Just…wow.”-Thomastwit
————————————————-
You’re very correct, the 16th is “part of” the constitution. And I do sound very ret@rded for saying otherwise. You win, I let my mouth get ahead of my brain. But I’ll never concede that an income tax is constitutional and a symtom of freedom.
When the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913, it only shows that the politicians then were as corrupt as they are today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission
The Report said that one-third of all income taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government, and another one-third escapes collection due to the underground economy. “With two-thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.”
=================================================
“Pleefer also thinks(?) that an old petition = credible scientific methodology.”-Cosmo
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cosmo, as far as I can tell, the petition was nothing but a collective of scientists who don’t agree with the tenets of AGW and were “urging the government to reject” the Kyoto treaty.
I’m sure that as soon as AGW is proven beyond doubt, then they will retract their signatures.
“From 2003 to 2007 AFP was led by Nancy Pfotenhauer (Koch Industries’ chief lobbyist from 1996 to 2001), who left to become an adviser for the 2008 John McCain presidential campaign.” Soros is an individual billionaire who funds progressive causes. AFP is a corporate funded effort with the Koch corporate agenda against the science of climate change, higher taxes for the richest millionaires and billionaires and health care reform. Americans for Prosperity and Freedomworks were both spawned by Citizens for a Sound Economy founded and funded with money from various Koch family foundations. David Koch bragged at the recent AFP convention that this fake grass roots movement has gone beyond his wildest dreams.
Maybe they haven’t funded AFP/CSE/Freedomworks/CATO,IWF, etc. in 2009 yet. They still have time before the write-off at year’s end. They are organizations with a big oil corporate agenda trying to turn ordinary people against their own interests.
Pleefer posted November 10, 2009 at 8:51 am
Cosmo, as far as I can tell, the petition was nothing but a collective of scientists who don’t agree with the tenets of AGW and were “urging the government to reject” the Kyoto treaty.
I’m sure that as soon as AGW is proven beyond doubt, then they will retract their signatures.
———————————-
Pleefer,
You seem to claim that you’re much better informed, and wiser than most Democrats and Republicans.
How do people on the the petition publicly “retract their signatures”? Is there a web link?
You’re “sure” that they will do it, so HOW do they do it?
Do you believe that “scientists” have the same education and work experiences as engineers, doctors, and veterinarians?
Can they switch careers easily?
Is “catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere” a “scientific” phrase? How many degrees is that? 700 F., making Earth like Venus?
What date marks the “foreseeable future”?
And from 2005: TPM: Nancy Pfotenhauer And Independent Women’s Forum Also Linked To Koch. Writing on TPM, Joshua Marshall reported, “Running AforP must not take too much time because she’s also president of the Independent Women’s Forum. But it probably helps that both organizations are run out of the same office. Look into the inner-workings of Citizens for a Sound Economy, Americans for Prosperity, the Independent Women’s Forum and you’ll see it’s pretty hard to see where one group starts and another stops. They just all seem to lead back to Koch Industries, run by the Koch brothers.” [TPM, 6/7/05]
The Tea Party people should know that they are being HAD, USED, for politics above and beyond those they are seeking to instill. I went to the Tea Party and discovered what I already knew. One world order conspiracy theorists, tax reformers, NRA. Right to Life, Christian Fundamentalists, Ranchers and land reform types, anti government and anti-Obama, anti migration, Obama as Muslim conspiracy nuts, homeschoolers, and all the various facets who make up the angry marginalized mob who are small clusters until they put their theories all together and show up in a Dick Armey bus. The financial backers of this movement besides Koch and his sidekick libertarianists are the Christian Dominionist Movement leaders who fully intend to destroy our democracy and instill a THEOCRACY. What a tea party we will all have then-and God will have nothing to do with.