It’s understandable that, as the state’s largest school district, USD 259 wants a place at the table during discussions about another possible school-finance lawsuit. But deciding at this time to become a full, voting member of Schools for Fair Funding — which the school board is considering at its meeting tonight — would make the district appear insensitive to the thousands of Kansans who have lost their jobs and to the other state programs that have had their budgets cut by much larger percentages. It’s also hard to justify spending an additional $60,000 to upgrade its affiliate membership when the district has so many other unmet needs.
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89 Comments
Phillip,
I assume this is your personal position on this from the way it was written, I hope it is the Eagle’s in general and you will do a big Opinion piece on it.
Folks are hurting!
Many have lost jobs, some are being furloughed, being cut back on hours and pay. Others are simply living with the fear of losing their jobs.
Charitable giving has dropped off considerably in Churches and to charities just when we are coming into the most important time of the year for giving.
For the schools to go after the taxpayer again is simply crazy at this time. They can never have enough and must be told no….not now, not this time.
Oh, and guess what time of year also is approaching….property tax time in December.
That should be fun for those without jobs and financially hurting, right at Christmas.
From today’s Lawrence paper:
John Robb, an attorney who represents Schools for Fair Funding, says the argument that no money is available is misleading. Lawmakers knew they would need to raise revenue to meet the court-ordered school funding needs, yet continued to cut taxes, Robb argues.
“Between (fiscal years) 1995 and 2010 the Legislature has cut taxes to the tune of $1.1 billion per year from the revenue stream. Had these dozens of taxes not been cut, the state would have had in excess of $6 billion in reserves to help weather this storm,” Robb said.
Perhaps Mr. Brownlee is unaware of the extent of corporate welfare passed by the Kansas legislature.
It’s puzzling: during a strong economy, the legislators holler “cut taxes!” but during tough times, it’s the same refrain: “cut taxes!”
It’s almost enough to make one think that their goal isn’t to foster growth or provide constitutionally-mandated services.
No, the Legislature is acting like it exists solely for the benefit of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce.
Hmmm . . . makes one wonder how much the KCC spent on their lobbying efforts.
Boxlock20
Posted November 9, 2009 at 6:40 am | Permalink
“For the schools to go after the taxpayer again is simply crazy at this time.”
————————-
The role of the BOE is to look out for the best interests of the students in USD 259. Forcing the Legislature to perform its state constitutional duty and equitably fund education is neccessary no matter the cost. The legislators seem to think that giving out tax cuts is more important than properly funding our children’s educations.
I presume you will attend the BOE meeting tonight and speak out against this investment and funding our childrens education as required by the state constitution.
Boxlock
While you’re speaking at the BOE meeting tonight, maybe you’ll share with them the dossier you put together on Apophis.
LOL
It is like the liberals live in some dream world or something.
-Unempoloyment at over 10% and going up
-Companies continuing to lay people off and not hiring
-State and Federal government budget shortfalls
-National Deficit at an all time high
-Federal government deficit spending in the trillion dollar range
And somehow… someway… they still think we have the money to increase funding to the schools?
Didn’t the schools just spend millions of dollars on swimming pools and tennis courts?
Government spending is out of control and the liberals think there is some magical money tree growing in the Chamber of Commerce’s backyard which they are hoarding for their greedy selves.
Absurd.
To see who contributes to the Kansas Chamber and who gets donations from them click:
http://ethics.ks.gov/CFAScanned/PACs/2008ElecCycle/PAC%20Links2008EC.htm
Scroll down to “Kansas Chamber of Commerce” and open the PDF documents filed in the 2008 election cycle.
Constitution of the State of Kansas
Article 6.–EDUCATION
6. Finance.
(a) The legislature may levy a permanent tax for the use and benefit of state institutions of higher education and apportion among and appropriate the same to the several institutions, which levy, apportionment and appropriation shall continue until changed by statute. Further appropriation and other provision for finance of institutions of higher education may be made by the legislature.
(b) The legislature shall make suitable provision for finance of the educational interests of the state. No tuition shall be charged for attendance at any public school to pupils required by law to attend such school, except such fees or supplemental charges as may be authorized by law. The legislature may authorize the state board of regents to establish tuition, fees and charges at institutions under its supervision.
(c) No religious sect or sects shall control any part of the public educational funds.
Bottom line: CONS hate funding the public education of your children.
“And somehow… someway… they still think we have the money to increase funding to the schools?
Well I don’t know about “we”. But wasn’t your father HLP just bragging to us that he sat in the “director’s studio” in a local movie theater so he wouldn’t have to be exposed to “the masses”? Seems like he and step mom aint hurting for money. SO much so that HLP feels compelled to brag about it. They can probably afford to pony up for the schools. Why 60 large is nothing to such folks. I guess it ia matter of deciding what is important, the education of our kids or the creature comforts of the idle rich.
BlueJay,
Obviously you don’t understand the difference in going to work every day and making money vs sitting at home and just having it handed to you.
If you actually worked, you could be “rich” too.
January 2009 – The evil Sebelius recommened school budget cuts
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius recommended in her budget proposal midyear cuts for the current school year and an additional hit next school year. For educators, that appears to be the best-case scenario.
“Let me put it this way,” said state education commissioner Alexa Posny. “I know it’s always difficult to think about cuts, but when I think about what the governor has proposed, this is probably the nicest thing that could have happened. In all honesty, it could have been a whole lot worse.”
Under the governor’s proposal, schools would lose $17.7 million this year — a reduction of $22 in the base state aid per pupil, as well as $350 per special education teacher. Next year, school districts would see an additional reduction of $66 per pupil. However, overall school spending would hold steady as more state funding goes to bonds, capital outlay expenses and the state’s retirement fund.
http://cjonline.com/stories/012009/loc_379274674.shtml
Note:
The budget of the Wichita schools for this year is about $604 million. In perspective, the across-the-board cuts amount to about 1.6 percent of the budget or about $10 million dollars. (Wichita Liberty Blog – Bob Weeks)
==========================
Yeah, it’s always those evil Republicans that recommend budget cuts, except when its not.
This funding by lawsuit is getting old and the taxpayers of Kansas will have to do some unconventional, but constitutional smack downs if this blackmailing by attorney doesn’t cease and decist.
“Blaidd_Drwg69″,
Ha ha, ya got a burr under you saddle there Blaidd_?
When there is no money there is NO MONEY.
There will be a revolt that will get the Constitution of state changed to reflect clarity in what is adequate if you don’t shut up.
And I’d campaign hard for that.
Lawyers, using the very cooperative judicial system to usurp the role of the legislature in making decisions regarding the funding of Kansas schools.
Lawyers, making a pile of money.
“While you’re speaking at the BOE meeting tonight, maybe you’ll share with them the dossier you put together on Apophis.”—Blaidd_Drwg69
Blaidd_, don’t be such a presumptuous ass, I can do far more good for the taxpayer by petitioning the legislators.
And read the Constitution Blaidd_ass, it says:
“The legislature shall make suitable provision for finance of the educational interests of the state. It does NOT say to kill the goose that lays the golden egg for education.
You mean Oedipus, long gone….thank goodness!
“If you actually worked, you could be “rich” too.”
Oh now be careful Nathaniel. You might indict more than just me.
Weren’t you just telling us how bad so many people have it? And you get no argument from me there. But you seem to jump easily from using those folks to make your argument to blaming them for their circumstances! Why they could be rich too! They just aren’t working hard enough!
Glad you’re not on my side!
“We” can’t afford more for education! It might cut into “our” comforts and amusements.
BlueJay is all for increasing taxes, the more the better, why….because he knows you can’t get ‘blood our of a turnip’, and BlueJay is most definitely a turnip.
Isn’t every show of “Wicked” a sellout? Tickets to that are like what 80 bucks?
And there just isn”t any more money for education! Why I bet if I drove over to Eastborough or Vickridge, they’re probably huddled around fire barrels to keep warm!
Is it commonplace for folk who don’t even live within the boundaries of USD 259 to pizz and moan about USD 259’s BOE?
•Daniel
Posted November 9, 2009 at 8:31 am | Permalink
Is it commonplace for folk who don’t even live within the boundaries of USD 259 to pizz and moan about USD 259’s BOE?
——————————-
Is it common place for USD 259 Union activists to go outside the purview of the district and use the Court Systems to brutalize the State’s constitution on funding?
Here’s a fun fact: Many of Wichita’s wealthiest neighborhoods aren’t within the USD259 boundaries, and therefore are not subject to any property taxes that would benefit USD259 students. They’re part of districts in places like Maize, Goddard, and Butler County’s Andover Public Schools.
These are people who live in the city limits, who benefit from city services, and who probably work in Wichita, but don’t contribute to our local schools. They live in neighborhoods that are *overwhelmingly* white, and their kids go to schools whose racial diversity comes straight out of 1951.
thomaswitt
Posted November 9, 2009 at 8:46 am | Permalink
Here’s a fun fact: Many of Wichita’s wealthiest neighborhoods aren’t within the USD259 boundaries, and therefore are not subject to any property taxes that would benefit USD259 students. They’re part of districts in places like Maize, Goddard, and Butler County’s Andover Public Schools.
—————————-
Maize, Goddard and Butler County’s Andover aren’t part of Wichita and never have been. They have their own school districts.
So T.Witt, you are saying commuting to a job is evil?
Since you live in Wichita and commute to Topeka, then you must be sitting on that proverbial fence of hypocrisy.
===============================
T.Witt writes: They live in neighborhoods that are *overwhelmingly* white
——————————-
T.Witt plays the race card – predictable.
Let’s see, Kansas is 88.7 percent White and 6.7 percent Black. So I would say the chances of moving into a predominantly white neighborhood are pretty high.
Sorry T.Witt, your display of typical liberal arm-flailing of race baiting – That dog won’t hunt.
I don’t know that the opinion of a man with no children (”Regular”) is relevant in matters of discussing our children’s education. Particularly when any taxes that man may pay for said education are deducted from his Government subsidization.
Reg., all good points above!!!
Ah, the usual ‘can’t stay on topic personal attack’ by BlueJay.
Would we expect anything else from the Blog’s resident trailer trash?
What kind of taxes do you pay BlueJay?
I’ve always thought there should be a nice little toll booth at each street exiting Eastborough. Maybe shut off their water every now and again. Just for a day or so. It might make them mindful of the community that surrounds them.
BlueJay
Posted November 9, 2009 at 7:52 am | Permalink
“If you actually worked, you could be “rich” too.”
If you get beyond envying what other people have in the realm of the material goods and wealth you can discover that you are indeed rich.
Boxlock
Your “suitable provision for finance” was defined by two studies enpaneled by the Legislature.
Try researching the LPA study as well as the Augenblick and Meyers study: http://skyways.lib.ks.us/ksleg/KLRD/Publications/SchoolFinanceFinalReport.pdf
or the Legislative Post Audit study:
http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/index.shtml
“Your “suitable provision for finance” was defined by two studies enpaneled by the Legislature.”—Blaidd_
Suitable is defined by the circumstances, which have changed. Again you can only pump a well that has water, when it depletes you must stop.
Hey Blaidd_,
Not only can we vote School Board members out if they push too hard, we can also get rid of Justices if necessary.
I certainly would be willing to do so if they don’t apply reason and consideration of economic circumstances.
Constitution of the State of Kansas:
§ 15: Removal of justices and judges. Justices of the supreme court may be
removed from office by impeachment and conviction as prescribed in article 2 of this
constitution. In addition to removal by impeachment and conviction, justices may be
retired after appropriate hearing, upon certification to the governor, by the supreme
court nominating commission that such justice is so incapacitated as to be unable to
perform adequately his duties. Other judges shall be subject to retirement for
incapacity, and to discipline, suspension and removal for cause by the supreme court
after appropriate hearing.
thomaswitt
Posted November 9, 2009 at 8:46 am | Permalink
Here’s a fun fact: Many of Wichita’s wealthiest neighborhoods aren’t within the USD259 boundaries, and therefore are not subject to any property taxes that would benefit USD259 students. They’re part of districts in places like Maize, Goddard, and Butler County’s Andover Public Schools.
These are people who live in the city limits, who benefit from city services, and who probably work in Wichita, but don’t contribute to our local schools. They live in neighborhoods that are *overwhelmingly* white, and their kids go to schools whose racial diversity comes straight out of 1951.
—————————————–
Last I knew people still had the right to live where they choose.
What many here refuse to look at is the rate of tax Kansans pay compared to the states around us. This discourages businesses from coming in and encourages others to leave for communities more friendly to businessses. When they leave they take jobs with them and this lowers our tax base even more.
Isn’t there one lib here who can actually look at the entire picture and see what has been happening. Sebelius to her credit saw that raising taxes would have been counterproductive.
We need to look long and hard at our current education structure in the state of Kansas. We don’t need the amount of administration we currently have. Having regional offices would cut massive amounts of money from the budget. Why does every little school district need a superintendent?
Throwing more money on the pile isn’t always the correct answer.
How have the “circumstances” changed Boxlock?
Stop the implentation of further tax cuts for now. That will at least tide over the state coffers until the economy improves.
The legislature might also have to implement some kind of revenue enhancement. No one wants that, but it may need to happen.
The schools are pretty much cut to bare-bones right now and I for one do not want my children’s education to suffer because of the Legislature not performing their constitutional duty.
Oh, good luck trying to find grounds to impeach the justices on the KSC. Also good luck on trying to change the constitution so you don’t have to fund schools properly. I doubt if you cons could even muster the supermajority in Topeka to get it on the ballot little less getting the voters to buy your nonsense.
Blaidd_Drwg69
I bet if you got a good independent auditor/accountant they could find many holes that money is falling down. Sometimes the personnell we think we can’t live/teach without really are expendable.
In this economy we all have to make sacrifices. To say education is cut to the bare bones is a little dramatic don’t you think. My suggestion about combining districts and cutting administration cost would go a long way to putting money back in the classroom where it needs to be.
Freebird71, how did I say people can’t choose where to live? I was pointing out how wealthy Wichitans have managed to get City of Wichita services without contributing their share of property taxes to Wichita Public Schools – that they’ve managed to do with Wichita what Johnson County has done with Kansas City, MO: They have their cake and eat it, too.
And for the record: When I’m living in Topeka for four to five months of the year, I pay my share of property taxes to the Topeka Public Schools, USD259, by renting inside that school district’s boundaries. I also continue to pay my mortgage (and property taxes) here in Wichita.
(Correction – Topeka Public Schools is USD501, not USD259)
Wicked?
Thanks for asking BlueJay.
It was great! I went with a few friends and watched it on Halloween night. The story was really neat and it added a whole new spin to The Wizard Of Oz.
It was money well spent. I had never been to a Broadway musical before.
We even dressed up really nice and went out to dinner before the show.
What did you do on Halloween BlueJay? LOL
Judge Bullock, made the initial decision to school funding by judicial activism. Bullock is now retired and takes his ‘judicial activism’ lecture platform with him.
—————————————-
Blaidd_Drwg69 writes:
The schools are pretty much cut to bare-bones
—————-
Puhleese – Yeah, I might see that in the poorer rural districts, but not in Wichita.
The voters of USD259 approved a 1/3 billion dollar increase in projects and what do we get in return? – a kick in the gut by the O’BAMAtron attorneys of the Augenblick spawn. (yes, they contributed to O’BAMA as trial lawyers do)
I would bet that a panel of auditors could find plenty to cut that is absolute wasteful spending in the various school districts.
I’ve worked on the inside of a school district and trust me, teachers and adminstrators are living high and living large – at least compared to what facilities, equipment and number of teachers I had when I was a kid.
Give me a ‘Big Chief Indian Tablet’ and a pencil and I bet within a month I could find all sorts of waste and copious spending in USD 259.
okobserver
School consolidation isn’t going to yield the dollars you Cons wish.
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/editorials/story/1043252.html
Nathaniel
Posted November 9, 2009 at 9:59 am | Permalink
It was money well spent. I had never been to a Broadway musical before.
We even dressed up really nice and went out to dinner before the show.
—————————————————-
You mean you went out and stimulated the economy?
You fascist ba$turd!
/saracasm off
Regular
Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:02 am | Permalink
I’ve worked on the inside of a school district and trust me, teachers and adminstrators are living high and living large – at least compared to what facilities, equipment and number of teachers I had when I was a kid.
—————————-
Is this when you were an emergency substitute Elementary music teacher in Derby?
Show me a teacher who is “living high and living large”. I don’t think too many teachers are going to be able to retire in the Bahamas on what they make as professionals.
Poor ol’ “Nathaniel” still hasn’t been to a Broadway production.
He’s attended a bus-and-truck tour.
And yeah, it’s pretty impressive.
But it’s not the same.
Ya gotta go to New York and pay an obscene amount of money to get in a room that pulls off a “Broadway Production.”
And usually it’s worth it.
Try it sometime.
#
thomaswitt
Posted November 9, 2009 at 9:54 am | Permalink
Freebird71, how did I say people can’t choose where to live? I was pointing out how wealthy Wichitans have managed to get City of Wichita services without contributing their share of property taxes to Wichita Public Schools – that they’ve managed to do with Wichita what Johnson County has done with Kansas City, MO: They have their cake and eat it, too.
—————
It seems to me that those folks living in the suburbs are in some school district and pay the associated taxes. Probably higher than Wichita’s levy. What’s your point again, thomaswitt?
Home owners taxes pay for the schools in the districts they live in.
I don’t see a problem with that.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:13 am
Is this when you were an emergency substitute Elementary music teacher in Derby?
Show me a teacher who is “living high and living large”. I don’t think too many teachers are going to be able to retire in the Bahamas on what they make as professionals.
————————
Yep, one can learn a lot by substituting 9 hours a day, five days a week inside schools.
The Bahamas?
Sure a teacher could retire there if allowed by the Bahamian government. The population is less than 310,000 and the median income is $29K per year compared to the median income of the U.S. of 51K per year.
That is, unless you think teachers are entitled to spend retirement like Princes in a predominantly black country, with the majority population as their servants.
That is what you mean eh Blaidd_Drwg69?
I believe that “Regular” makes the argument for better school funding in spite of himself. That is if he is to be believed. I personally do not believe him. But let’s pretend.
The schools are SO desperate for substitute teachers that a person with obvious mental health issues was allowed access to our children?
Blaidd you give me an editorial piece as proof that consolidation won’t work. With that giant leap of logic I am off to conduct business and hope I make a profit today.
Is no sense of logic a requirement to be a lib?
ksgrm-okobserver
I only linked the editorial because the consolidation peice is recent news. Do try to read the research out there that shows it isn’t going to achieve what you desire.
Oh, I forgot you’re out to “make a profit today”. In reality that’s really all it’s about for you isn’t it?
Blaidd_Drwg69 writes: Oh, I forgot you’re out to “make a profit today”. In reality that’s really all it’s about for you isn’t it?
Profits put beans on the table…
Spin it all you want Regular, the fact remains that teachers are not living high on the hog. They also have little to look forward to in retirement thanks to the Legislature again.
So Regular, you spent 9 hours a day five days a week substituting in Derby as an Elementary music teacher? Does that part time job now give the credentials to pronounce judgement on the hard working professionals who educate our children? Do YOU even have children?
okobserver
Posted November 9, 2009 at 9:41 am | Permalink
What many here refuse to look at is the rate of tax Kansans pay compared to the states around us. This discourages businesses from coming in and encourages others to leave for communities more friendly to businessses. When they leave they take jobs with them and this lowers our tax base even more.
Isn’t there one lib here who can actually look at the entire picture and see what has been happening. Sebelius to her credit saw that raising taxes would have been counterproductive.
We need to look long and hard at our current education structure in the state of Kansas. We don’t need the amount of administration we currently have. Having regional offices would cut massive amounts of money from the budget. Why does every little school district need a superintendent?
Throwing more money on the pile isn’t always the correct answer.
_________________________________
I don’t understand why we need over 300 school districts in this state. Surely there’s money to be saved through consolidation.
Like okobserver, I don’t think throwing more money at the situation solves anything. The piggy bank has about run out.
Where do you get the money that “puts beans on the table” Regular?
XXX
Consolidation doesn’t net the dollars you think it will.
Consolidation is also a deathblow to small town Kansas.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:46 am | Permalink
Spin it all you want Regular, the fact remains that teachers are not living high on the hog. They also have little to look forward to in retirement thanks to the Legislature again.
So Regular, you spent 9 hours a day five days a week substituting in Derby as an Elementary music teacher? Does that part time job now give the credentials to pronounce judgement on the hard working professionals who educate our children? Do YOU even have children?
==============================
Oh you forgot the Chemistry, Math, Special needs and BDO classes I ’sub’d’ in as well.
BlaidDrwg69 whines: Does that part time job now give the credentials to pronounce judgement on the hard working professionals who educate our children? Do YOU even have children?
No, but being a property and sales tax payer of Sedgwick County USD 259 and income tax payer into the State of Kansas does.
I was so hopeful for you Blaid – figured than an educated man could argue the issues instead of using personal attacks.
I have been known to be wrong about personal character and dignity of others. My sincere empathy for your lack of fortitude and intellectual discipline in sticking with the current topic of discussion.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:48 am | Permalink
Where do you get the money that “puts beans on the table” Regular?
——————–
I’m retired, how about you?
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:52 am | Permalink
XXX
Consolidation doesn’t net the dollars you think it will.
Consolidation is also a deathblow to small town Kansas.
_________________________________________
Dog, I can’t imagine how reducing over 300 identical or near identical positions (say, superintendent) to 30 positions could help but save money.
“Consolidation is also a deathblow to small town Kansas.”
That process started long ago. I saw it in the small town where I went to high school. It’s a shame, but small towns are probably doomed.
If you’re retired how do you pay “income taxes” Regular?
You know Regular, you wouldn’t be the object of so many attacks if you didn’t start your sanctimonious attacks on others. In the case of this thread, you attacked the professionals who educate our children as being part of the problem. I cannot stand by and tolerate that.
If you choose to engage in civil discourse then I can reciprocate. If you start attacking teachers, then the gloves are off. I suppose then you can challenge me to show at Toc’s on the 11th so you can explain things to me. Maybe you’d like to frog march me into a field and………………
Here are some rational thoughts to slow the “Fair Funding” lawsuit train:
1. Stop considering additional tax cuts. As they say, “If you’re in a hole, you should stop digging.”
2. The Legislature could halt the phase-in of already granted tax cuts. Two considered and rejected last year were the phase-out of the estate tax and the phase-out of the corporate franchise tax.
3. When Congress grants a federal corporate tax cut, the state should decouple that provision of our state tax code from the federal tax code. Kansas, like many states, has tied its tax code to the federal tax code meaning whenever Congress changes a tax provision, it automatically changes the state tax provision. State tax policy should be in the hands of state legislators, not Congress.
4. Finally, a tax increase should be on the table for discussion.
The Kansas sales tax system lists exemptions and exclusions in statute. That list goes from (a) to (ffff) with some of those subdivided into as many as 24 additional exemptions. Many of them are hard to argue with – Goodwill Industries and Easter Seals, for example. Others are questionable and need examination – Ottawa Suzuki Strings or Johnson County Young Matrons. Every one of these exemptions and exclusions needs to be re-examined. And it would probably be best if they were all repealed and replaced with an evenly applied statutory set of criteria. If you meet the criteria, you get the exemption.
If the Kansas Legislature wants to avoid this nastiness, here’s a start.
Our children deserve it.
The fact remains, the schools, especially #259 has been given plenty of money, bond issue on top of a bond issue, it’s time to stop.
Push too hard on taxes and people WILL push back, and they will win.
#259 takes in in excess of 12,000K per student annually, that is almost double what many good…no excellent, private schools spend and the product, as measured by standardized scholastic tests, shows we are getting less of a good result. What gives?
More money is not the answer.
What the is the motivation in this continual demanding more and more money when the population of students is not rising like that. I suspect it is not altruistic motivation, but to a degree personal.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 11:20 am | Permalink
If you’re retired how do you pay “income taxes” Regular?
You know Regular, you wouldn’t be the object of so many attacks if you didn’t start your sanctimonious attacks on others. In the case of this thread, you attacked the professionals who educate our children as being part of the problem. I cannot stand by and tolerate that.
======================
Really? What teachers did I attack or what school official did I attack?
I think you are a bit too refractive.
I’m a fiscal conservative, I pinch pennies, it’s what I do. Like it or not, I am what I am.
‘What
theis the motivation in this continual demanding more and more money’I wonder if Blaidd_Drwg69 is a teacher? He sure is sensitive about this subject.
I think it’s great when one part of Government spends taxpayer dollars to fund a lawsuit against another part of Government to force even more taxpayer dollars to be spent.
Every Department of Every Level of Government should follow this same approach.
Blaidd a couple of thoughts as I got back to my computer screen. One who ever told you retirees don’t pay income taxes. Thanks to Bill Clinton ss recipents now pay taxes to get back from the gov the money they paid in while working.
Also as a retiree once and now working again we were able to hire a new worker today. Doing our part to build the economy.
What have you done today besides try to get our taxes raised. I have never voted against a bond issue but after seeing some of the antics of the latest spenders of our education dollars I might not be so generous next time.
Nope Regular, I’m not a teacher. I AM sensitive about this subject though. I have educators in my family as well as many good friends who are memebrs of this profession. You minimize their importance when you say that they don’t deserve more.
Boxlock20
Posted November 9, 2009 at 12:17 pm | Permalink
The fact remains, the schools, especially #259 has been given plenty of money, bond issue on top of a bond issue, it’s time to stop.
———————–
Apples and oranges Boxlock, bond issue money cannot be spent on general funds for schools.
okobserver
Posted November 9, 2009 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
Also as a retiree once and now working again we were able to hire a new worker today. Doing our part to build the economy.
__________________________
You hired a new worker; that’s great.
Hiring someone at minimum wage, with no benefits, hardly makes you responsible for turning the economy around. You probably think you deserve a tax break for doing so too.
Now, if someone of the “middle class” would spend money on a discretionary purchase or two THAT would be a significant boost to the economy.
“Hiring someone at minimum wage, with no benefits, hardly makes you responsible for turning the economy around.”–B_D
Look whose mouthing off and you’ll find it’s the same person who COULDN’T HIRE ANYONE!
All he wants to do is tax folks that could hire if they weren’t giving so much away in taxes.
Funny how it’s the non-producers that bi+ch the loudest and always want more.
“Apples and oranges Boxlock, bond issue money cannot be spent on general funds for schools.”–B_D
Don’t give me that sorry line….it’s all money going to schools….period. And it all comes out of the taxpayers pocket, where much of it should stay.
I’m sorry you cannot accept the truth Boxlock,
Anyway, a society cannot have public services without taxes. You need to get over your Con fantasy that the free market can/will take care of everything.
Boxlock, how do you know that I am a “non-producer”?
I do own my own business, as does my wife. I pay taxes like the vast majority of society but at least I can see the big picture instead of a narrow Con worldview.
Sometimes tax increases are neccessary. Now may be that time with the tax-cut mania that has occurred in Topeka and Washington.
boxlock20 has claimed that his “wife” teaches at a private school.
Cosmos,
Whether she teaches at a private scool or not is beside the point,she is taxed on her income just like everyone else.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 1:39 pm | Permalink
Nope Regular, I’m not a teacher. I AM sensitive about this subject though. I have educators in my family as well as many good friends who are memebrs of this profession. You minimize their importance when you say that they don’t deserve more.
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Eh?
This isn’t about your family, me or any individual.
This is about education of the children in this state. Right now, the state is in a reduced funding due to the recession, jobs lost and decreased revenues.
Cuts must be made everywhere, including schools.
Somehow you twist this to the ‘gimmies’ of the school teacher. Sorry, this is not about the school teacher – the education system has never been about the school teacher.
Try and remember that…
You need to get over your income being taxed. The 16th Amendment has been around since 1913.
This is personal to me for a variety of reasons. I don’t think it is for you to judge what is persoanl for me
Nearly 1/2 of the state budget is spent on education. 75-80% of education budgets go to salaries of the professionals delivering instructional services. These professionals are there everyday with our children.
How is that NOT about the teachers you hold in such low esteem?
“You need to get over your income being taxed. The 16th Amendment has been around since 1913.”–B_D
That’s NOT the problem, see if you can figure out what the problem is today bright boy. With all the various taxes added together middle class folks pay 40 to 50 percent of their incomes in taxes, that’s a he11 of a long way from where it was intended.
Fact:
“By 1913, 36 States had ratified the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. In October, Congress passed a new income tax law with rates beginning at 1 percent and rising to 7 percent for taxpayers with income in excess of $500,000. Less than 1 percent of the population paid income tax at the time.”
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:IjRIyebwZzgJ:www.treasury.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml+what+was+the+level+of+the+first+income+tax+after+the+16th+amendment&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
When a man or woman is FORCED to give up half their labored earnings they are no longer a free person but working for the state.
That’s Bull Shi++!
Shi+ = manure for you government school educated folks like B_D.
Boxlock, you’re making ass-umptions again.
You have no idea if I attended public, private or parochial schools.
It appears that you just another hating Con.
“Freebird71, how did I say people can’t choose where to live? I was pointing out how wealthy Wichitans have managed to get City of Wichita services without contributing their share of property taxes to Wichita Public Schools – that they’ve managed to do with Wichita what Johnson County has done with Kansas City, MO: They have their cake and eat it, too.”
In all fairness, Tom, I can’t go along with you on this one. District 259 is a completely seperate entity from the City of Wichita. Residents of the city pay taxes to pay for the services they get from the City of Wichita, no matter what district they live in, and they pay property taxes for the district they live in.
Thus, while there are good arguments to be made about the bad effects of suburban school districts, there is no “having your cake and eating it to.”
And fortunately, the Wichita District (259) is still doing comparatively well, even though the city has grown beyond its borders (that’s happening in several Kansas cities, including even some of the suburban communities-e.g., Derby residents going to Rose Hill). 259 is a growing district that has repelled the stupidity of tax whiners like Peterjohn during the last two bond elections. I would hate to see a decline happen here like it happened in Kansas City or Saint Louis, and fortunately, at this particular point in time, it seems unlikely that it will.
Here is an interesting study from the 2010 Commission. Note it is chaired by Rochelle Chronister and Dennis Jones, both are former Republican State Chairs.
There are 28 pages here to read. The report says “lower taxes will not help the Kansas economy in the long run if states cannot support strong education systems—and that takes a significant investment,”
The Commission will recommend that no cuts be made this year in statutory funding for K-12 education and that the state raise whatever taxes are necessary to put another $272 million into schools in Fiscal Year 2011. Goal is to raise the Base State Aid Per Pupil to the $4,492 required by statute. The commission will include in its report to the Legislature a sheet of more than $1 billion in tax cuts handed out in the past several years, with instructions to eliminate enough of them to raise the money needed for schools.
If the Legislature won’t do this then the “Fair Funding” lawsuit is a must for Kansas.
Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted November 9, 2009 at 2:35 pm | Permalink
This is personal to me for a variety of reasons. I don’t think it is for you to judge what is persoanl for me
Nearly 1/2 of the state budget is spent on education. 75-80% of education budgets go to salaries of the professionals delivering instructional services. These professionals are there everyday with our children.
How is that NOT about the teachers you hold in such low esteem?
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I don’t hold teachers in low esteem.
You may have hit upon the secret of this whole discussion without realizing it. That is, this discussion is primarily about budgets and what the state can afford with the current revenues.
As impersonal as it may seem, educators employed by the state are part of a budget. This is the way the legislature has to look at it. Not whether teachers Betty Sue or Bobby John gets a salary raise or even keeps their position.
It’s also about whether or not that this school district should spend $60,000 to become a full member that is party to a lawsuit against the state of Kansas. Teachers have formed unions in order to keep the status quo of full employment/payments and the teaching environment in tact.
That’s all fine and well, but it’s what we pay the legislators for in making the decisions about overall budgets in accordance with the constitution of Kansas.
Ever notice a union strike and what is not talked about are those who will get laid off as part of keeping the status quo or increased benefit to the union employees. Everything is fine and dandy until the newer or older employees get handed their pink slips.
The teacher unions seem to want zero reductions in the status quo. They want to legislate by the bench.
The pot of money kept by states is not a bottomless, there are limits and that’s why budgets must be made.
“The pot of money kept by states is not a bottomless, there are limits and that’s why budgets must be made.
No, that is why rich people must be taxed. Last I knew, the rich weren’t hurting. In fact they’ve been making out quite well on the backs of everyone else. Time to pay up.
“No, that is why rich people must be taxed….In fact they’ve been making out quite well on the backs of everyone else. Time to pay up.”–BlueBrain
It ain’t gone’a happen BlueBrain, because low life lazy freeloaders don’t have the where-with-all to make it into politics to change much of anything. The politicians just lie to dumb folks like you to get in, and they know you’ll never learn.
You are to remain exactly where you are in life unless you do something about yourself, it because no politician gives a rat’s a&& about you so wake up.
What it comes down to is the Kansas Supreme Court has made a ruling, and the court will see to it that its ruling is carried out. The only thing the legislature can do that would change that is propose a Constitutional amendment to do away with the requirements now in that document. It isn’t a political decision whether or not to fund schools; it is a legal obligation ordered by the Supreme Court.
Cooler and wiser heads prevailed.
The funding was approved.