A public health insurance plan appeared dead two weeks ago, but both House and Senate Democratic leaders announced this week that their reform bills would include the option. The comeback may be fueled by opinion polls showing that a majority of the public wants a public option. Fifty-seven percent of Americans favor a public insurance option, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll. Support among doctors is even higher — 63 percent favor giving patients a choice that would include both public and private insurance, according to a survey released last month. Overall, however, the public is still divided on the health care reform bills in Congress, with 45 percent favoring the broad outlines of the proposals and 48 percent opposed.
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235 Comments
Under Pelosicare, little Johnny born today will have to have his parents purchase healthcare insurance from the government if they cannot afford private insurance.
There’s your Public Option, forcing people to buy healthcare insurance.
Constitutional knockdown drag-out anyone?
Yeah, right…
Since the Republicans don’t have anything to offer, they need to get out of the way. There’s a reason Republicans were so soundly rejected last November. They’re out of step with the majority of Americans. We voted for change. The only thing that will stand in the way of that change is Republican foot-dragging. A Republican administration lead us to the edge of ruin. It’s time for them to step aside and see what the other guys can do.
Poor XXX,
Still believes the republicans can ‘get in the way’!
He believes the propaganda!
Health Care – Republican Page:
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
258 democrats
175 republicans
If 45 democrats in the house join the republicans in defeating some idiotic legislation the republicans are ‘in the way’.
If one poor demented republican senator joins the majority in the senate, it’s bipartison support!
What a bizzaro world XXX must live in to believe the pelosi propaganda!
Health care….sure, run like the following;
Medicare…..going broke
Social Security…..going broke
Amtrak…..losing money on nearly every route and passenger
Post Office…..continually close to broke
Cash For Clunkers…..cost the taxpayer 24K per car
And the list could go on and on.
The Fed. government apparently can’t run any program without it costing more than when run in the private sector…..and history and the facts prove that correct.
HR 3400 for all you illiterate libs that didn’t know there is another option on the table that doesn’t involve a HUGE expansion of the imperial goverment.
I think most of the Republican initiatives are addressed in the legislation that is now ready to go to debate. Even though they are late to the party, Democrats would welcome their support..
40 million uninsured. Thousands more losing coverage every week.
Fellow Americans losing their homes and life savings to pay for health care.
Fellow Americans dying because they cannot pay for the health care they need.
The “free” market has failed. It needs help. It needs competition.
Face it, the Federal Government is completely inept with our money and their takeover of health care will be NO different.
How many examples and how many times does it take for a DimLib to realize that simple fact.
We get to vote our Government.
Ever try registering your opinion with your employer or employer provided health care provider?
HLP
Posted October 30, 2009 at 6:31 am | Permalink
Poor XXX,
Still believes the republicans can ‘get in the way’!
He believes the propaganda!
_______________________
HLP
Posted October 30, 2009 at 6:43 am | Permalink
What a bizzaro world XXX must live in to believe the pelosi propaganda!
_________________________________
Good Morning, Hank.
Still drinking the Koolaid, I see. I’m sure that one of these days we’ll get you educated.
Don’t you have some goats to tend to?
Cons are afraid of the Government.
What if they and their best efforts were proved to be all wrong? What if Government could actually work? The “free” market would actually have to care more about people than bottom lines.
XXX
I’m going to try this again.
Medicare costs 8-10 times what was projected.
It’ll be tough for insurance companies to compete against something that doesnt have to turn a profit.
Obama said “single payer is the goal”.
Think about it my friend.
All this concern over insurance companies but not a word about the people of America.
Surveys show that 94% of people using the ‘government run’ Medicare single payer system are quite happy with it. Reforms should start to bend the cost curve down while protecting more Americans. It’s all good.
The screen softens as Blue Jay dreams:
What if they and their best efforts were proved to be all wrong? What if Government could actually work?
SNAP!
Back to reality.
Government does not act on your own self interest by taking away your right to determine your own self interest.
Is the “public option” really for the purpose of promoting competition? Of course not. It’s the first step, the toe hold, in a government takeover of the health system. I think this old song by the Alan Parsons Project illustrates the fair “competition” that would develop with Big Brother.
I am the eye in the sky
Looking at you
I can read your mind.
I am the maker of rules,
dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind.
“It’ll be tough for insurance companies to compete against something that doesnt have to turn a profit.
Oh no doubt about that. Strange that the insurance companies do not seem to be proactive in addressing this threat to their very existence. The hour is late for them. Shouldn’t we be hearing commercials from them practically begging to prove they can cover all Americans?
Not a peep from the insurance companies.
Well, not a peep in the direction of providing care to people who need it anyway. They’ve got MILLIONS invested in telling us how awful a public option would be.
Shouldn’t they be telling us how much better THEY promise to be?
At this stage of the game, one would almost expect an insurance CEO acting like a used car salesman.
“We’ll cover you! You don’t want no public option! Who cares about pre existing conditions? If you’ve got a pulse, I’ve got a policy!”
It seems only the Government is in the “business” of losing propositions.
Big Brother Industries includes:
Government Motors Corp (GMC)
Banking
Insurance (AIG)
And coming soon, health care! Our one size fits all health care plan will fit you too, comrade.
Some Republicans (even our own Todd-under ethics investigation-Tiahrt) were favorably discussing the Swiss system. Everyone is required to buy insurance and the insurance companies are all not-for-profit.
Our insurance companies could restructure to become service providers again and turn away from the current money-making schemes. But I fear the public option has been too watered down to make this a reality.
But at least there is progress.
Progress is good… even if it is small… one step at a time…
“Shouldn’t we be hearing commercials from them practically begging to prove they can cover all Americans?”–BlueJay
They aren’t the liars to the extent the congressional Democrats are BlueJay, and they give more people credit for having the intelligence to know that there are limited resources and unlimited wants and needs that can’t be met completely……ever.
The capitalistic system, with charity, is in the long run the fairest of all in the allocation of those limited resources.
BlueJay
Posted October 30, 2009 at 7:41 am | Permalink
We get to vote our Government.
Ever try registering your opinion with your employer or employer provided health care provider?
————————————————–
How’s your opinion received at the welfare office or unemployment line?
Charity? How many millions of Americans must beg for health care?
The only reason the cons think that government is so inefficient is due to the relative transparency of the system. If we had the same transparency into the waste of private businesses, I am sure all would be appalled.
Reuters Thompson recently estimated that there is 500 – 800 billion dollars of unproductive waste in the current medical system. If eliminated, there is plenty of money to provide excellent health care for all, and decreasing costs to all.
david….in switzerland they are also required to have a firearm and are taught how to use it…….good idea
I like it, smells like cons burning in the morning!
“The House proposal includes a 5.4 percent surtax on individuals making more than $500,000 and couples earning more than $1 million, which would bring in an estimated $460 billion over 10 years to help pay for covering the uninsured.”
Who cares how much we increase the debt to future generations? After all according to some thats why we have kids.
I’m all for affordable health care what I am against are those who equate affordable with I don’t have to pay for it.
ah phantom.penalize those that have worked to be sucessful to give to those that want something for nothing……….you holding out stretched hands with bj?
I heard the extended U.I. benefits is being held up because of an Acorn ammendment. This is an example of cons getting in the way.
Why are the dems today so blind. Really read what this bill entails.
The taxes start on day one.
The coverage doesn’t start until the 4 year mark.
Assuming the gov keeps it hands off the money collected for healtcare the cushion will erode by the 5th year of coverage – sooner if they put this money into the general fund.
Thats at least 9 years from now.
At that time we will have a monster healthcare bill that is sucking the life out of the US.
The only solution is a massive tax hike to pay for the albotross we are carrying on our backs by then – Obamacare.
Many of us seniors might be gone or totally senile by then so our children and grandchildren will take on this huge burden.
The dems who think this scenario is false need to actually read the verbage in Pelosi’s bill that was just received. Be aware that it was written in pig latin so normal mortals wouldn’t see it as the monumental pile of krap it is.
Tell us how the tax scheme is going to affect you? NADA.
The last cbo report predicted greater savings in the out years, your analysis doesn’t hold water.
Boxlock20
Posted October 30, 2009 at 7:38 am | Permalink
Face it, the Federal Government is completely inept with our money and their takeover of health care will be NO different.
How many examples and how many times does it take for a DimLib to realize that simple fact
–
But in the Bush years all you Republicans were hellbent on rubber stamping every federal program that Bush pushed through – wars, Medicare drug program, no-bid contracts for Halliburton to name a few.
But I do agree with you – that Bush federal government could not be trusted with our money and were very inept!
What happens to “affordable health care” when the doctors are no longer able to cover their costs (rent, heat, lighting, expensive equipments, staff, insurance against litigation,….) and can’t “afford” to stay in business much less pay off medical school debt?
Good idea!
The Swiss have all males trained in military arts by the government at age 20 and remain in the reserve until their mid 30s.
Good idea. LOL!! Maybe Obama needs to set that up and have a powerful civilian defense force!!
phantom………….”empty”
okobserver
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:37 am | Permalink
Why are the dems today so blind. Really read what this bill entails.
–
Why were Repubs so blind for 8 years of Bush when he spent like a drunken sailor? Oh yeah, that’s right – Bush was your boy!
No wonder I’ve seen so many Republicans trying to distance themselves from Bush and Gang lately. But with Cheney’s mouth running – Americans are still being reminded of how inept the Bush Administration was.
It’s really not hard to fathom why the Republican Party is now down to 20% people even willing to claim they are Republicans.
GOP – once a Grand Old Party is now reduced to 20% of whining, complaining crybabies – led by their cheerleader – Glennie Beck.
Deb – maybe some of those doctors will have to give up their country club memberships – do you think??
I’ve worked the health care field for alot of years and I have yet to meet a poor doctor. That animal just does not exist.
davidb..civilian defense force = obama’s brownshirts…….you are revealing what you really want…….can’t take care of yourself or yours……huh?
Who is Glennie Beck?
My guess is you might be referencing Glenn Beck who has a show on Fox news and is a Best selling author.
He’s not a Republican.
Facts and Liberals rarely collide.
Deb – think about this – if more people are paying premiums into the health care system, then there will be more money in the system.
Or is that too hard of a concept to grasp?
Currently my private health insurance company pays my doctor approximately half of the bill due to their paying only their negotiated contract price. So why does the doctor overcharge on the bill if he knows my insurance company will only pay half?
Could it be because he is trying to soak the private pay people who will have to pay the entire charge when they go in for an office visit?
And you think this is a fair system?
Deb, why is it all of the European countries can cover everybody at half the cost per person we do? They manage to pay their electric bills. It can be done. We are not going to run out of doctors or have them working in the dark.
We hear all of these baseless complaints, but few real solutions from the right aisle!
DavidB
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:50 am | Permalink
Deb, why is it all of the European countries can cover everybody at half the cost per person we do? They manage to pay their electric bills. It can be done. We are not going to run out of doctors or have them working in the dark.
————————————————–
Why do people from all over the world come to American to see our Doctor’s when they are dying?
Why did the American worker fly 8000 miles for an operation just to save her company money?
Davidb……b/4 you speak you should understand how they fund……..also have never heard that they do at half the cost……..or are you just grasping?
phantom……..empty again……
Why pay the most expensive medical insurance industry in the world anything?
Never never never forget… It is the private medical insurance industry that cancels YOUR medical insurance AFTER taking YOUR MONEY for years. Years and hundreds of thousands dollars later no one has any guarantee of any coverage.
Not only that if an employer makes a switch there is no guarantee any coverage or same coverage will be available.
Face it what wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many healthy citizens pay out to insurance companies in a 12 month period they would never spend that much in 12 months no way jose’… with very very few exceptions. So why are we giving a middle man so much money? What’s the point?
Paying out all that money is no guarantee the most expensive insurance industry will stick with you when the bills come rolling in.
Think about it. It’s so many many many working people WITH insurance that are being forced into bankruptcy. Why pay an insurance company anything?
totoinks
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:50 am | Permalink
Could it be because he is trying to soak the private pay people who will have to pay the entire charge when they go in for an office visit?
—————————————————-
Lie. Not calling you a liar per se, but someone has lied to you with that information.
Call your Doctor. Ask if they have sliding scale fees for the un or under insured.
If 3 million healthy insured dropped their policies in the next two weeks not only would they save thousands of dollars the insurance industry would faint in disbelief that this many people actually are awake and give a damn.
Then they could afford to pay out of pocket.
Sooner or later another few million would do the same. Suddenly all of america would realize the medical insurance business has been doing nothing but making tons and tons of profit by way of fear mongering.
At that point all would see that america could have insurance at a much much lower rate such as 225 a month for the best coverage in the world that includes the entire family.
Makes dollars and sense to me. More money to invest smart instead of supporting high rollin executives and shareholders.
Maybe get on with that home improvement with cash instead of borrowing from the bank…..just maybe.
Maybe go to Jamaica for a few weeks instead of supporting high rollin executives and shareholders.
Health Care Businesses at Risk in House Bill
Legislation produced by House Democrats would impose an array of new taxes, fees and government mandates on major players in the health industry, including insurers, doctors and drugs
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/30/health-care-businesses-risk-house/
For up to date information on National Health Insurance google
Health Care – NOW
All you suckers who support corporatism from the right should start to see what is happening here.
The only way the left can get momentum for garbage like this is because you sit there and support the same type of ideology as the left, but instead of the government controlling it all, you want government connected corporations to instead.
There is your problem. Until the right can show that the government actually does run healthcare through insurance companies, we are toast.
You are going to have to support free markets and reject corporatism. This country has not had free markets for a century. The government has centrally planned the economy through certain vehicles. You have to realize what those vehicles are and show how they are distorting everything.
The left can just blame what you call a free market all day. Show them that free markets don’t exist. Show them that the government caused the economic collapse we are in now.
Phantom
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:39 am | Permalink
The last cbo report predicted greater savings in the out years, your analysis doesn’t hold water.
“CBO Director Doug Elmendorf, in a Thursday letter to House Democratic Chairmen, cautioned that his estimates are preliminary and “subject to substantial uncertainty.”
————–
Phantom are you two talking about the same CBO report. It seems it is smoke and mirrors at this point because they need more ‘information’ to give a final report. ‘Substantial uncertainty’ to me says these numbers don’t mean squat. Bring on the meat of the bill.
Additional $4 or $5 grand a year in taxes for the average middle income tax payer.
Tax starts in ‘10 but we don’t see any benefits until 2013 or 14.
So $800,000,000,000.00 in ten years is actually $800,000,000,000.00 in 7 years.
$1,500.00 new taxes for EVERY man woman and child.
Gotta love these media run surveys. Perhaps ABC should stick to what it does best – run Obama specials.
The question:
8. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans?
It implies that the government will “compete” with and against private health insurance plans. That is a lie. The government by it’s nature is not a private for profit company. It doesn’t care about a profit. It gets it’s funding from the 50% of us still paying taxes. To “compete” it would have to have the possibility of “failure” . With an unending funding source (taxpayers), it cannot fail. Further – government will set the rules for the (cough cough) competition. Stacked deck.
Those polled were asked to give their opinion on a fantasy.
Gotta love these media run surveys. Perhaps ABC should stick to what it does best – run Obama specials.
The question:
8. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans?
It implies that the government will “compete” with and against private health insurance plans. That is a lie. The government by it’s nature is not a private for profit company. It doesn’t care about a profit. It gets it’s funding from the 50% of us still paying taxes. To “compete” it would have to have the possibility of “failure” . With an unending funding source (taxpayers), it cannot fail. Further – government will set the rules for the (cough cough) competition. Stacked deck.
Those polled were asked to give their opinion on a fantasy.
Heck,
“It’ll be tough for insurance companies to compete against something that doesn’t have to turn a profit.”
Capitalism doesn’t require anyone to turn a profit. There are all sorts of non-profit groups doing all sorts of things. They haven’t ruined capitalism.
If it’ll be tough to compete, isn’t that where capitalism shines? If an insurance industry actually has to compete, don’t you suppose it will force them to become leaner and to honestly provide the services they advertise at a cost their customers can afford? If they can’t do that, then capitalism allows them to go under and let whoever can do it. If the taxpayers can run the system better than the fat cats, maybe the fat cats need to go on a diet!
The government has nothing. Well…almost nothing. They get a monopoly on the legal use of force and coercion.
And ya gotta love the media which is providing free advertising for the ABC (Obama Channel) Survey.
No interest in who was polled to come up with those numbers?
Democrat Republican Independent
Lean
10/18/09 33 20 42
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101909.html?sid=ST2009101902502
Lean Democrat 33
Lean Republican 20
Lean Independent 42
Margin of error +/- 3%, and majority democrats.
57% heh? Best they could do?
For those just getting up to speed:
Medical expenditures per capita by country:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html
Netherlands 3,092 France 3,040
Switzerland 4,011 Japan 2,293
Finland 2,203 United States 6,096
Pick a poll to lobby for support.
Try this one:
51% of Americans Oppose the Health Care Plan
Monday, October 26, 2009
If the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats passes, 57% of voters nationwide believe it will raise the cost of health care, and 53% believe the quality of care will get worse. That’s part of the reason that just 45% support the plan. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 51% are opposed to it.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform
A. The quality of medical care available to you and your family
2009 Sep 11-13
39%Very satisfied
41 Satisfied
14 Dissatisfied
5 Very dissatisfied
1 No Opinion
B. The cost of medical care for you and your family
No
opinion
2009 Sep 11-13
20% Very satisfied
41 Satisfied
26 Dissatisfied
12 Very dissatisfied
1 No Opinion
PRINCETON, NJ — When given a choice of five issues, 4 in 10 Americans name the economy as the top priority for Barack Obama as president, easily the top percentage.
Economy priority 1: 41%
Iraq/Afghan: 18%
Healthcare: 17%
Budget Deficit: 14%
Energy: 2% (cap and tax?)
Gallup.com
“Medical expenditures per capita by country:”
Thanks DavidB. You indicate that the federal government is NOT the answer for solving our major problems.
Since the government is already “controlling” (cough cough) the costs and are the largest payer, they suck at it big time, as your numbers reflect.
“Since the Republicans don’t have anything to offer”
Cannot believe XXX is partaking of the koolaid.
I have posted three Republican Healthcare plans introduced in Congress on more than one occassion.
Short of pulling out their six shooters, XXX, what would you have republicans do? Democrats have locked them out and will not even DISCUSS other options or ideas.
Democrats want it all. There is negotiating. You won.
At least be honest in your attack on the minority party.
In order to Compete with Private Plans, the Public Plan would have to be 100% funded by premiums paid for by the insured people.
The Gubbermint plan will be paid for by taxpayers.
It will violate Sherman Anti-trust by unfairly undercutting the price of all competitors (through taxpayer paid for subsidies), which will substantially lesson competition and support the formation of a monopoly.
If you want choice in Health Care providers, then don’t support a Government Monopolistic Plan.
And where is the Constitutional Authority for the Federal Government to mandate everyone purchase health care?
david b…….out of individuals pocket, or business, or government or?………and the income per captita is what?
And just WHO do you dims think will pay all these higher fees and taxes?
“Washington (AP) – The health care overhaul bill produced by House Democrats would impose an array of new taxes, fees and government mandates on major players in the health industry, including insurers, doctors and drugs and medical devices makers.”
Or do you believe the providers will just eat the higher costs for doing business, along with your belief in the tooth fairy?
3. Do you think things in this country (are generally going in the right direction) or do you feel things (have gotten pretty seriously off on the wrong track)?
Right Wrong No
direction track opinion
10/18/09 44 54 2 After 9 months with President Obama
10/25/08 13 85 2 After 8 years of President Bush
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101909.html?sid=ST2009101902502
By 2-to-1 Margin, American Women Prefer Private Health Insurance Over Government-Run Plan, Poll Finds
Independent Womens Forum
http://www.iwf.org/news/show/22253.html
The thing is – no opposing information; whether factual, survey’s, or polls will hit the news.
For the next MONTH, until the SINGLE PARTY SYSTEM acts what it intended to do all along, the press will just repeat this ONE figure.
Justification for action and ignorant of facts or what the American people want.
We got what we asked for in Congress and WHite House. One party rule.
American_Way
Posted October 30, 2009 at 10:49 am | Permalink
“Since the Republicans don’t have anything to offer”
Cannot believe XXX is partaking of the koolaid.
——————————————–
He drinks the koolaid all the time.
Didn’t you see his post about Obama announcing how 650,000 jobs were created by $150 Billion in Stimulus spending?
Nearly 10% national unemployment, and losing 1/2 Million jobs every week, and XXX believes Obama’s press release garbage!
(Oh, BTW, IF Obama’s announcement was true, then the average spent for each job created with the stimulus was $250,000!!!!!)
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/open-thread-1030-2/#comment-687844
davidb….?
Just to clear the air. The government already runs healthcare in this country through insurance companies.
Therefore government is the reason that healthcare costs are rising.
Why would you want to give them more control? They will insure costs skyrocket even more then they already have.
If you like your private insurance, you keep your private insurance. Is that a problem?
Since the spacing came out badly here it is again:
3. Do you think things in this country (are generally going in the right direction) or do you feel things (have gotten pretty seriously off on the wrong track)?
10/18/09 Right Direction 44% Wrong Direction 54% President Obama
10/25/08 Right Direction 13% Wrong Direction 85% President Bush
As the economy continues to improve, thanks to the massive Recovery Act spending yet to come… I look forward to seeing these numbers a year from now
Duh.. as it says on the webpage.
Per Capita Health Expenditures by Country, 2007
The sum of public and private expenditure (in purchasing power parity terms in US dollars), divided by the population. Health expenditure includes the provision of health services (preventive and curative), family planning activities, nutrition activities, and emergency aid designated for health, but excludes the provision of water and sanitation.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html
Jimbo,
In case you hadn’t noticed, most of us don’t get our choice of healthcare providers. Our employers choose what’s cheapest and we’re either stuck with that or have to pay outrageous premium bucks for an individual plan. If the government offers us another option, what’s wrong with that?
Health Care Plan to CUT $500,000,000,000 from Medicare!
How it’s paid for: $460 billion over the next decade from new income taxes on single people making more than $500,000 a year and couples making $1 million.
There’s also about $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, a new $20 billion fee on medical device makers, $13 billion from limiting contributions to flexible spending accounts, sizable penalties paid by individuals and employers who don’t obtain coverage and a mix of other corporate taxes and fees.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/congress/67367647.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7PaP3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr
DavidB (b for bullhsit)
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:02 am | Permalink
If you like your private insurance, you keep your private insurance. Is that a problem?
—————————
It’s a problem if I still have to pay for YOURS.
Supporting the public option means you support rising healthcare costs.
It’s as simple as that. It’s inconsiderate and actually does the opposite of what you want.
I hope it passes. In fact, I’m betting on it passing. I am heavily invested in commodities and the US dollar is the world reserve currency. The government will be forced to keep creating money out of thin air to fund all of this garbage. This will devalue dollars and cause commodities priced in dollars to rise in price. Everything priced in dollars will rise in price.
Seniors to Senators Conrad and Dorgan ‘Don’t Cut Medicare!’
Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:02am EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS181258+30-Oct-2009+PRN20091030
so davidb ..you are willing to give up your income (assuming you work and are not like bj)………to get the percapita health expenditures lowered……….kind of like the guy that was unhappy with his phone service and told the operator to stick the phone up there azz….the operator complained and the phone company was going to remove his phone if he didn’t apologize……he simply called the operator back and advised them to be ready because they were coming to get the phone…….davidb……you better get ready
Jed
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink
Jimbo,
In case you hadn’t noticed, most of us don’t get our choice of healthcare providers. Our employers choose what’s cheapest and we’re either stuck with that or have to pay outrageous premium bucks for an individual plan. If the government offers us another option, what’s wrong with that?
———————————
Because the another “option” won’t be an “option” either?
Jed
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink
Jimbo,
In case you hadn’t noticed, most of us don’t get our choice of healthcare providers. Our employers choose what’s cheapest and we’re either stuck with that or have to pay outrageous premium bucks for an individual plan. If the government offers us another option, what’s wrong with that?
1. Read.
2. Comprehend.
3. Unfair SUBSIDIZED Competition from Government will lead to Private Insurers going out of business and we’ll be left with 1 Government Health Care Plan.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/public-supports-a-public-option/#comment-687950
4. Every employer I’ve worked for offerred multiple health plans.
5. You have private health plan options.
6. You have SCHIP options.
7. You can pick another employer. Are you chained to your job?
Once ObamaCare takes over, THERE WILL BE NO CHOICE!
. . . . And 70% of Americans don’t have a clue what a “public option” is.
The fact of the matter is that the “public option” isn’t designed to ‘provide’ competition; there’s competition now. And the fact of matter is that no private company can compete with a gov’t which has an unlimited supply of taxpayer money to back it and can run deficits at will indefinitely, which need not worry about expanding costs or providing value to investors, which need only give the voters they bribe more goodies for less dollars, even as they demonize the private companies who are forced to ‘compete’ with the impossible.
That, of course, is the point; the “public option” is designed to become the only option, and move to a single payer system.
But the Administration will not tell you that. I just did.
In case you hadn’t noticed, most of us don’t get our choice of healthcare providers. Our employers choose what’s cheapest and we’re either stuck with that or have to pay outrageous premium bucks for an individual plan.
—————————–
So the solution is to pay $1 trillion dollars to change a few rules??
Oh hell ya, count me in!!!!
Bi-boy,
We already pay more than that. Does it really make a difference if we call it premiums or taxes when it all comes out of the same kitty? Nobody sensible ever said healthcare would be free, wherever it comes from. And if it makes a difference for you, you’re still free to buy your insurance from Aetna or Humana if you want. You still have the right to be as stupid with your money as you wannabe.
Jed,
You do realize, of course, if one buys one’s insurance from a private company, you’re paying for your insurance AND for those who use the fancifully named “public option?”
After all, who else would pay? You don’t really think those who take the “public option” will be the sole support of said program, do you? If you do, I have some seashore in Arizona to sell you . . .
Again; that’s the point. The “public option” is designed to drive out competition and become the only option. And there’s still no mechanism for dealing with the largest problem out there: not lack of coverage, but the rapidly rising costs.
If any of you think the Government has your best interest in mind you are a fool.
GMC is exactly right. If we have the gov’t involved in health insurance, it will be just like the Postal Service, sucking down tax dollars and competing against private parcel carriers.
Oh, wait.
******
Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s.
Mr. Kia–
Yeah. I think the multi-millionaire running Preferred Health Systems has my best interest at heart.
I love that guy . . .
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink
GMC is exactly right. If we have the gov’t involved in health insurance, it will be just like the Postal Service, sucking down tax dollars and competing against private parcel carriers.
Oh, wait.
******
Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s.
______________________________
But but but but Capn, the Repubs keep telling us that the Postal Service is a big loser.
By the way, Capn, thanks for the Carlin post.
Much enjoyed.
Kinda like Bernie Madoff had his investors’ best interests at heart.
They were making good money . . . for awhile.
Hey, Cap’n
How’s Amtrack doin?
Sure, XXX– We need Carlin these days.
And don’tcha love how the CONs want to send our tax dollars to places like Iraq and Israel that have public universal health care.
It’s good enough for them, but not for us.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
Mr. Kia–
Yeah. I think the multi-millionaire running Preferred Health Systems has my best interest at heart.
I love that guy . . .
————————————————–
Difference is choices.
No choices you are nothing more than an indentured servant.
And don’tcha love how the CONs want to send our tax dollars to places like Iraq and Israel that have public universal health care.
I’m for bringing all our troops home stop all foreign aid and use the money here. Screw the rest of the world’s wants and needs
GMC is exactly right. If we have the gov’t involved in health insurance, it will be just like the Postal Service, sucking down tax dollars and competing against private parcel carriers.
Oh, wait.
==
You do understand, of course, that the Postal Service survives (if you can call it that) precisely because it has a legal monopoly on mail service? While private parcel delivery services compete with (and generally whips the butt of) the USPS in parcel delivery, they are barred by law from delivering regular mail.
You really want to use that as an example? Is this the best you can do with your own private BTSNBN to organize your talking points?
Freebird–
Mega dittos.
Mr.Kia–
I have the choice to take what my employer offers or not take it.
Some choice.
Sollie–
Amtrak isn’t doing too good. But then it has to compete against huge gov’t funding for roads so people can easily drive their fuel inefficient cars or airport “development” (like Wichita’s 7 million dollar a year bribe to JetBlue) so that airlines can’t collude and drive up prices.
There is no real “free market” in transportation since gov’t is involved at every level with every type.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:16 pm | Permalink
I have the choice to take what my employer offers or not take it.
Some choice.
————————————————–
If you aren’t smart enough to know what your choices are it’s really not my problem.
While private parcel delivery services compete with (and generally whips the butt of) the USPS in parcel delivery
Sure. If you refuse to deliver to costly locations out in the sticks and you cream off all the high-density locations, you can do better than the USPS.
Private co’s are allowed to do that. USPS isn’t.
Mr. Kia–
Simply saying that I have a choice is not the same as me really having a choice.
Have you researched this? Do you know what comparable health insurance to what I have now would cost if I got it myself?
You don’t because you got nuthin’.
Private co’s are allowed to do that. USPS isn’t.
—————————————————-
I thought the USPS was an independent organization?
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink
GMC is exactly right. If we have the gov’t involved in health insurance, it will be just like the Postal Service, sucking down tax dollars and competing against private parcel carriers.
Oh, wait.
—————————–
Except that the price of health reform “stamps” will run thousands of dollars each, not half a dollar for a postal stamp.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
Mr. Kia–
Simply saying that I have a choice is not the same as me really having a choice.
Have you researched this? Do you know what comparable health insurance to what I have now would cost if I got it myself?
You don’t because you got nuthin’.
————————————————–
Have you the “public” option?
You realize it’s going to cost more than a private plan?
Unless you’re the typical liberal welfare case..which I thought you had a job?
Kia says: I thought the USPS was an independent organization?
Well, you thought wrong. It’s a gov’t agency that is run independent of tax dollars. It’s charter is in the Constitution, so argue with that if you don’t like it.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
Mr. Kia–
Simply saying that I have a choice is not the same as me really having a choice.
Have you researched this? Do you know what comparable health insurance to what I have now would cost if I got it myself?
You don’t because you got nuthin’.
According to the last CNN poll. insurance premiums wil go up $4000.00 a year. Tax will be raised to cover the public option. And many doctors will not except a public option.
That really works out well for the working public.
Change you can believe in.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
Mr. Kia–
Simply saying that I have a choice is not the same as me really having a choice.
Have you researched this? Do you know what comparable health insurance to what I have now would cost if I got it myself?
You don’t because you got nuthin’.
According to the last CNN poll. insurance premiums wil go up $4000.00 a year. Tax will be raised to cover the public option. And many doctors will not except a public option.
That really works out well for the working public.
Change you can believe in.
And, Kia, if the public option “costs more than a private plan,” then no one will opt for it.
Duh.
So what are you worried about?
That it will succeed?
Really? And who’d of thunk that small town Kansas was a “high density location?”
Better get your talking points in better order.
Really? And who’d of thunk that small town Kansas was a “high density location?”
Better get your talking points in better order.
Sorry ’bout the double.
And Mr Kia, if you buy that the USPS is truly “run independent of tax dollars,” I’ll be glad to sell you a bridge.
Cheap.
Talk to vets who need to get medicine in Western Kansas towns using UPS, GMC.
They do usually get them . . . eventually . . .
GMC70 posted October 30, 2009 at 12:15 pm
While private parcel delivery services compete with (and generally whips the butt of) the USPS in parcel delivery, they are barred by law from delivering regular mail.
—————
I doubt that Fedex and Ups want to deliver bulk rate junk mail to everyone’s mailboxes, six days a week.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:30 pm | Permalink
And, Kia, if the public option “costs more than a private plan,” then no one will opt for it.
Duh.
So what are you worried about?
That it will succeed?
————————————————–
My post of 11:58a says all I need to about a public option and the future of private.
Someguy–
What was your source again?
A CNN poll?
Poll of whom?
My source says that costs will go DOWN 4,000 dollars a year.
I have no source, but that’s as good as what you’ve got . . .
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:35 pm | Permalink
Talk to vets who need to get medicine in Western Kansas towns using UPS, GMC.
———————-
With mail order pharmancy, you order for many months supply of medicines, so timely delivery is not really necessary, unless you let your supply run too low (forgot to order.)
The DOD is trying to push that option on me, but doesn’t make sense as I only live a few blocks away from a pharmancy.
I have a hard time believing that anybody in their right mind would defend the insurance companies. They exist by screwing their customers. I might be a little more sympathetic if I hadn’t just gone through a fight with my insurance company over Mrs XXX’s coverage. It’s just amazing what they’ll go through to deny coverage.
You got it, XXX.
They make money by denying coverage, not by providing it. Great “free market” system, isn’t it.
*****
Okay, I got to skeedadle on outta here. Don’t want to become too much of a “regular” if you know what I mean . . .
XXX posted October 30, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I have a hard time believing that anybody in their right mind would defend the insurance companies. They exist by screwing their customers.
—————-
The people who defend the insurance companies do not have a “right mind”.
XXX
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
I have a hard time believing that anybody in their right mind would defend the insurance companies.
—————–
I’m not defending insurance companies, there needs to be legislation to control aspects of competitive pricing, no pre-existing conditions and etc.
What the Pelosicare legislation is going to do is turn the low end of the health recipient population into Medicaid type of health care and trying to convince everyone that it won’t cost a dime.
That’s pretty laughable when the bill contents already describes new taxes and fees.
As details come out, we all will learn what Pelosicare will cost. Notice, there was no CBO analysis attached to this one. Pelosi wants to freight-train this through Congress before the CBO has a chance to look at it.
Yeah, responsible government – NOT.
Look at the Tiahrt thread.
Why would you defend any program brought forth by these people?
You think he’s the only dirty one in Congress and they exist only on one side of the aisle?
Fools to believe.
Mr_Kia
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
Look at the Tiahrt thread.
Why would you defend any program brought forth by these people?
You think he’s the only dirty one in Congress and they exist only on one side of the aisle?
Fools to believe.
___________________________
Oh no no no no, Mr_Kia. I don’t think he’s the only dirty one in Congress and I don’t believe that only one side is dirty. I think that fully 95% of them belong in prison. They say “campaign contribution”, I say BRIBE.
“Talk to vets who need to get medicine in Western Kansas towns using UPS, GMC.
They do usually get them . . . eventually . . .”
I think WalMart does better than “eventually”. Who have you been talking too?
By “vets” I meant veterinarians, sorry for the CONfusion.
But a lot of small towns in western Kansas don’t have Walmarts, thank God.
“I have a hard time believing that anybody in their right mind would defend the insurance companies. They exist by screwing their customers.”
Insurance companies employ armies of people in their rescission departments to dig through records looking for grounds to cancel policies, deny coverage. They make absolutely sure their business is about profits, and not about health care!
When the insurance companies are attacking the reform bills, you know you’re on the right track! We probably won’t get everything Americans deserve, but it will be a great start and will improve with time.
They make absolutely sure their business is about profits
================================
Yeah, that’s kinda the point of being in business. If profits do not motivate you, you will no longer be in business.
Defend insurance companies? Why – they’re, well, insurance companies after all. Do they need regulation? Of course. Is there reform needed? Certainly.
But – Do I think gov’t has my best interests at heart? Not on your life. Notice this, from above: Insurance companies employ armies of people in their rescission departments to dig through records looking for grounds to cancel policies, deny coverage. Well, yea. But gov’t will do exactly the same, under a different name.
But when gov’t, with its “public option,” decides you’re not worth the cost of keeping alive, you’ll be left without another option.
Don’t kid yourself.
If profits do not motivate you, you will no longer be in business.
Which is exactly why profit-driven mega-businesses are wholly inappropriate for paying for health care.
Thanks for making our argument for us.
How many other countries have the for-profit insurance company model that we have?
Answer: zero.
Why is that, do you think?
Switzerland and Taiwan both had a major health care reform in the last 20 years. Neither one opted for our for profit system.
Odd, isn’t it.
If it’s so good, why doesn’t any other country in the world want what we have?
“GMC70″ must have dozed off at the “Draw Skippy School of Law” when they discussed anti-trust law.
Health insurance companies don’t have to compete.
Sure, they can throw out different premium rates.
But they don’t have to.
And they have the right to deny coverage to subscribers at any time. To cancel coverage at any time. To reject new subscribers for any or no reason at all due to “pre-existing conditions.” Like being a woman.
Or being a fat baby.
Or being a skinny baby.
Or didn’t report your teenage acne.
For-profit insurance companies carry a 30% overhead for actuaries whose only job is to deny coverage. Medicare administrators (Kansas Blue Cross is the one for Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa) process claims for a 3% mark-up.
Please, CONs:
Try to get this concept into your head.
You are already paying through the nose for health care. The money you will spend of health care for everyone is the money you’re spending now.
Health is not market-driven.
A market-driven approach to health is totally irrelevant.
Yeah, true health coverage reform might damage a blowing-going-contribute-to-CONs operation. But you’re not gonna spend a nickel more (unless you and the wife make a Million a year) if we finally return health financing to something logical and efficient.
CONs these days see afflicted by both myopia and tunnel vision.
I haven’t seen a CON in this forum — or anywhere, really — who can move beyond the Repubic Party daily talking points.
But I admire your resilience!
Ol’ “okobserver” came back on the attack after only a day after she fell for the “Barack Obama College Thesis Hoax.”
Ya gotta admire that spirit!
Straight out of “Cool Hand Luke!”
Keep gettin’ up and take another punch.
Ya gotta admire that.
CONs got nothing except they hate “Dims,” they hate “libs,” and they hate President Obama.
CapnAmerica,
Should grocery stores make a profit?
How about toilet paper companies, clothing companies, or home builders?
Do I think gov’t has my best interests at heart? Not on your life.
Take for instance, the gov’t run public prosecutors’ office . . . .
Insurance companies don’t make their money directly from customers.
They make their profits from what’s called the ‘float.’ That is, they re-invest the payments into their companies from the subscribers to raise the needed investment monies to keep their business viable and pay out claims.
This float is supervised by U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) – you know, the government.
Anti–
See MHawk’s very excellent rebuttal.
Health care is not toilet paper. If you need chemotherapy, you don’t just switch to a cheaper brand.
Well done, MHawk. Anybody who hasn’t drunk the CON kool aide gets it. Megacorps are not our friends.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
Mr. Kia–
Yeah. I think the multi-millionaire running Preferred Health Systems has my best interest at heart.
I love that guy . . .
—————
TRUTH CHECK
Preferred Health Systems is a Via Christi subsidiary, soon to be sold.
CapnA, please name the multi-millionaire Via Christi employee running Preferred Health Systems.
CapnAmerica,
I figured you would dodge the question.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink
Do I think gov’t has my best interests at heart? Not on your life.
Take for instance, the gov’t run public prosecutors’ office . . .
———————
Or College English instructors who get rated 4 out of a possible 10 scale by students.
DavidB; Got a problem abnout per capita costs according to the cite you refer, it reduces all number converted to US dollars for parityfor the fluxuation and rise of the Euro, Canadian and Australian dollar has been pretty steep over the last few years. This means the comparison could be out quite a bit ie., 2006 Cdn $ =.66 US, 2009 Cdn $ = .94 US. Best stay with % of GDP methinks, it relates to costs as impacting within a specific economy/society
“For-profit insurance companies carry a 30% overhead for actuaries whose only job is to deny coverage”
So says “Monkeyhawk”
I say:
Prove it.
You can’t. How do I know? You;’ve used the same 30% overhead for Presidents and VIce Presidents, for CEOS, and and on. But, please be my guest and prove the above statement.
“CapnA, please name the multi-millionaire Via Christi employee running Preferred Health Systems”
Good question. And the answer is….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/05/AR2009100503622.html
Coventry to Buy Preferred Health
Bethesda Firm Seeking to Improve Midwest Presence
By Mike Musgrove
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Coventry Health Care said Monday that it has agreed to acquire health plan Preferred Health Systems of Wichita, a move that would boost the Bethesda managed-care provider’s presence in the Midwest.
Under the deal, Coventry would add Preferred Health’s roughly 100,000 members to its rolls, giving it more than 1 million members in six Midwestern states, Coventry chief executive Allen F. Wise said in a statement. The deal also establishes a long-term business relationship between Coventry and Preferred Health’s current owner, Via Christi Health System, the largest provider of health-care services in Kansas
******
CEO Compensation
#387 Allen F Wise
04.22.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Previous: David H Hannah Next: Fredric J Tomczyk
Total Compensation
$2.60 mil
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/12/best-boss-09_Allen-F-Wise_8TS1.html
*****
Next question . . .
That’s the compensation of the coventry execs, not preferred health systems.
Please answer the question
“between Coventry and Preferred Health’s current owner, Via Christi Health System, the largest provider of health-care services in Kansas”
—————
What was that? “Preferred Health’s current owner, Via Christi Health System”. “Current owner”. What does that mean to you, CapnA?
You know, it’s really not worth the effort anymore to engage folks like CapnA And MH in debate about ideas. First you have to sort through the lies they post.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 1:43 pm | Permalink
CEO Compensation
#387 Allen F Wise
04.22.09, 06:00 PM EDT
Previous: David H Hannah Next: Fredric J Tomczyk
Total Compensation
$2.60 mil
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/12/best-boss-09_Allen-F-Wise_8TS1.html
*****
Next question
————————————————–
Why so hateful about things you don’t understand?
You know, it’s really not worth the effort anymore to engage folks like CapnA And MH in debate about ideas. First you have to sort through the lies they post.
=========================
It’s like debating with an emotionally distraught 14 year old girl.
It’s like debating with an emotionally distraught 14 year old girl.
cosmo?
The House “Affordable Health Care for America Act” mandates that 85% of premiums go to paying for medical services.
I think this is a good start to assure Americans that their health care dollars are actually going to healthcare.
Do you slurp when you drink that?
So 15% of expenses go to all administrative cost. Which basically means the same idiots that work at the DMV and Postal Service are going to be making decisions on my health plan?
I’ll stick with the evil corporate insurance with an average profit margin of only 2.2% who pays good wages for smart people.
That is as long as your Government allows them to stay in business.
need I remind you all that the CEOs of all the major health insurers got up in front of congress, and not only bragged about royally screwing their policy holders, but stated unequivocally that they intend to continue doing so? And these arethe people you want running our healthcare system? Bend over folks, here comes another dose!
More on the Big Lie.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/520393/Fortune-500-Top-Industries-2008
Kia,
“I’ll stick with the evil corporate insurance with an average profit margin of only 2.2%….”
2.2%? Come on! Nobody sane would buy that stock! Any business with a 2.2% rate of return would have no investors!
If you like your current plan, you can keep your current plan. No problem.
That’s why the insurance lobby id throwing millions a day into fighting reform – to save their 2.2% return LOL!!!!
Jed
Posted October 30, 2009 at 2:44 pm | Permalink
Kia,
“I’ll stick with the evil corporate insurance with an average profit margin of only 2.2%….”
2.2%? Come on! Nobody sane would buy that stock! Any business with a 2.2% rate of return would have no investors!
————————————————–
You think Forbes is inaccurate?
I’ll trust them over your Government. That’s just me.
JED-
I suggest you look it up. The industry average is around 3%. It has been higher, but that is the latest figure. The eeeeevil health insurance company high profit margins are basically, a propoganda lie. A big one.
http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/ap_on_go_co/us_fact_check_health_insurance
Among others.
Scramble libs scramble.
Call Rachael Maddow (I think he hit puberty this week)..find out the spin on these facts.
DavidB
Posted October 30, 2009 at 2:51 pm | Permalink
That’s why the insurance lobby id throwing millions a day into fighting reform – to save their 2.2% return LOL!!!!
—————————————————-
You might want to read up on some of the former employers of those lobbyists as well as who is really profiting.
It’s amazing some of you have the brain function to breathe.
Kia, So you are trusting your future healthcare to an industry teetering on the brink of Bankruptcy? Your premiums might be better invested in a crap game!
•Jed
Posted October 30, 2009 at 3:10 pm | Permalink
Kia, So you are trusting your future healthcare to an industry teetering on the brink of Bankruptcy? Your premiums might be better invested in a crap game!
=================
Better than trusting our future health care with something that is bankrupt..The US Government.
Jed
Posted October 30, 2009 at 3:10 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
Your owned and that’s your response?
House Democrats blocked the public from attending the unveiling ceremony of their health care bill Thursday morning, allowing only pre-approved visitors whose names appeared on lists to enter the event at the West Front of the Capitol.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/29/house-democratic-bill-ceremony-closed-public/
“A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.” JFK
More good news from the House of Representatives
***********************
Pelosi Health Care Bill Blows a Kiss to Trial Lawyers
The health care bill recently unveiled by Speaker Nancy Pelosi is over 1,900 pages for a reason. It is much easier to dispense goodies to favored interest groups if they are surrounded by a lot of legislative legalese. For example, check out this juicy morsel to the trial lawyers (page 1431-1433 of the bill):
Section 2531, entitled “Medical Liability Alternatives,” establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But]…… a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys’ fees or imposes caps on damages.
So, you can’t try to seek alternatives to lawsuits if you’ve actually done something to implement alternatives to lawsuits. Brilliant! The trial lawyers must be very happy today!
While there is debate over the details, it is clear that medical malpractive lawsuits have some impact on driving health care costs higher. There are likely a number of procedures that are done simply as a defense against future possible litigation. Recall this from the Washington Post:
“Lawmakers could save as much as $54 billion over the next decade by imposing an array of new limits on medical malpractice lawsuits, congressional budget analysts said today — a substantial sum that could help cover the cost of President Obama’s overhaul of the nation’s health system. New research shows that legal reforms would not only lower malpractice insurance premiums for medical providers, but would also spur providers to save money by ordering fewer tests and procedures aimed primarily at defending their decisions in court, Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, wrote in a letter to Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah).”
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink
“Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s.”
USPS rescue plan passes House, Senate up next
September 18 2009
HR 22, the United States Postal Service Financial Relief Act of 2009, has passed the US House of Representatives, but postal officials say action in the Senate is needed quickly to head off potential problems.
“The timetable in the Senate is uncertain at this point,” said USPS spokesperson Gerry McKiernan.
The bill cuts a required payment to postal retirees’ health fund from $5.4 billion to $1.4 billion. The payment is due September 30, and unless a similar bill passes the Senate and is signed by the President by then, the USPS must still make the full amount.
“People should understand that there’s an urgency for this,” said McKiernan. “The Postmaster General has already said that making the payment on the September 30 is problematic, and any corporate entity would not want to default.”
McKiernan said that representatives from the USPS will be on Capitol Hill this week pushing for a speedy resolution.
HR 22 will reduce the USPS’ debt by about $4 billion, leaving it at $3 billion. Its total debt load will rise to $10.2 billion, short of the $15 billion limit established by the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act.
The USPS lost $2.4 billion last quarter, which is also when it began looking for Congressional help.
CapnAmerica strikes out again
Something that should be very scary for all Seniors. Where is AARP when you need them?
“The Ensign Amendment. Sen. Ensign (R-NV) succeeded in adding a very important amendment to the Baucus proposal during the Finance Committee’s deliberations. The Ensign amendment stated simply that Medicare savings must be used to reduce Medicare’s unfunded obligation. Inclusion of this amendment is an important step toward making Medicare a sustainable, viable program for future generations of seniors.
However, the Ensign amendment would be a pyrrhic victory for seniors and for Medicare if health care reformers were permitted to use the savings from Medicare to finance other spending. Senators now need to take the next step to ensure that the straightforward interpretation of the amendment is reflected in any legislation adopted by the Committee: Whatever Medicare savings are eventually adopted need to be completely sequestered from the rest of the bill.”
So medicare will go down the same path as social security with the premium and savings put into the general fund and not used to save medicare as we know it now.
Are the dems awake yet?
okobserver
Posted October 30, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink
Are the dems awake yet
—————————————————-
They are is the sick part. A lack of respect for life is a pillar of their platform. Note that “End of Life Counseling” remains part of the bill. They’ve prettied up some legalese but it remains the same.
“Are the dems awake yet?”
Oh they are awake. But they can’t hear anything with their hands planted firmly over their ears. “LA-LA LALA LA-LA!”
Pelosi Plan Would Give Health Czar Super Powers
Posted October 30th, 2009 at 3.44pm in Health Care.
Among the fallacies in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s health care bill is the pretense that bureaucrats are smarter than the rest of us. An unelected bureaucrat would be given czar-like control over our lives, our health, and our pocketbooks. Even super powers.
This new all-powerful “health choices commissioner” would be entrusted with more power than most superheroes. The laundry list of that special power is proof that it’s a government takeover of health care.
This presidential appointee will both control the new government-run insurance plan AND decide how private insurance companies are to operate, by creating the standards for their coverage and enforcing compliance. Likewise, employer-run health plans would answer to super-czar.
In other words, this health czar will control both the government plan and all of its competition. So much for claims about a level playing field!
Rather than having Medicare dictate payment amounts to doctors and hospitals (as Pelosi originally intended), her new 1,990-page bill says the czar will “negotiate” rates. That will take an an awful lot of staff. America has 788,000 active doctors and 5,708 hospitals.
But that’s not all. The new czar would also:
Oversee the millions of Americans who would qualify for insurance subsidies
Audit the country’s 1,300-plus health insurers
Have power to collect whatever data the office deems necessary, which could involve review of medical records
Assess fines
Define our terms for us. This commissioner/czar would dictate all the definitions used in health insurance policies. After all, if you control the language, you control the debate
Appoint a national health ombudsman to examine consumer complaints, but only in “a linguistically appropriate manner”
As we pointed out about the earlier version of the House bill:
“The House health care reform bill would establish a new entity called the Health Choices Administration, headed by a presidential appointee to be called the Health Choices Commissioner. Sounds wonderful, right? A government official whose only job is to make sure you have health care choices, right?
“No. If you read the bill, . . . it turns out that the Health Choices Commissioner’s job is, essentially, to make your health choices for you.”
The new super-bureaucrats may not be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. But they can put a lot of tall barriers between each of us and our doctors.
———————
The devil is in the details and who is going to read all of those old pages anyway?
We are on the way to the barn to be fleeced. Is there a dem among us who can see the forest.
You know, I’m getting a little tired of handing CapnAmerica’s azz to him in a basket every day.
Do you think some of you “cons” could help me out?
I need to take a break.
Kia and Amway I fear you are so righton. That is why we have to keep up the fight to stop this madness called a healthcare plan.
I will survive what would come but I fear for future generations of my family that this will affect.
Amway I have been doing that also when I drop in which hasn’t been much lately. He is a swelled head with not much knowledge to inflate it. Just a lot of hot air.
I also have found him to be very much like Chas in that he never admits he is wrong even when faced with hard facts.
Keep up the good work. Your reward might come as soon as the next election in 2010.
I decided last night after reading that pathetic blog the libs ran to with tails between their legs that I will lighten up on Linda. She obviously is in over her head in a serious conversation.
okoberver you have your boat in the best spot. I keep sneaking my boat closer because you seem to be killing them on every cast.
I agree with your catch and release of liberals. The future of the entire lake population rests on education on the truth and reality.
If okie was half as smart as she THINKS she is, she would not have to exploit prison labor to make her living.
I decided last night after reading that pathetic blog the libs ran to with tails between their legs
===========================
Which blog is that?
“Is there a dem among us who can see the forest.”
I see health care coming for me and millions of people the “free” market has failed!
I would tell you if I could remember the name. Trust me you won’t miss it if you never go there. It seems all of our finest libs migrated and choose new names to hide from the ‘meanies’ on that other blog.
Look at last nights open thread I think. Someone exposed all of their new names.
Seems WS was two shades to the wind one night and revealed BJ’s new moniker.
BJ a ‘market’ is where you either buy or trade something of value for a product. Looking at you I don’t see you buying anything and what of value are you prepared to trade for your healthcare?
Don’t bank on that healthcare yet. I see a battle ahead.
Health care is (or rather it WILL be) a right.
The USPS lost $2.4 billion last quarter, which is also when it began looking for Congressional help.
*****
When did I say that the USPS doesn’t take taxpayer funds?
But you’re not gonna spend a nickel more (unless you and the wife make a Million a year) if we finally return health financing to something logical and efficient.
Please, please, please don’t tell me, MH, that you believe that the federal gov’t is capable of creating ANYTHING that can remotely be called “logical and efficient.”
If you do, I have a piece of property to sell you. It only looks like swampland; trust me . . . . .
When did I say that the USPS doesn’t take taxpayer funds? - Capn
This is too easy:
CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink
“Since its reorganization into an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s.”
=====
Next.
“Health care is (or rather it WILL be) a right.”–BlueJay
You will have to pay BlueJay, YOU will have to pay!
Nothings going to be free unless you’re living so low as to be totally miserable, and/or functionally and mentally incompetent, anyway. Which are you BlueJay?
Ha! The joke will be on you….as usual.
Yeah, GMC, hehehe.
I just wondered how you CONs like to have the CONtradiction and equivocation game played back at you . . .
Now if I were Am-Way, I’d complain that the I never said that the USPS was “self-sufficient,” MY SOURCE said it was self-sufficient or some other semantic game.
Since Am-Way and Regular can make words mean whatever they want them too, I figured everybody can do it too . . .
Goes to show that teabaggers, Faux propaganda channel, and republicans are completely out of touch with what Americans need and want.
The package is not a liberal dream. We wanted Single Payer, and I’m not at all hot on the idea of giving more money to insurance companies that gouge the people who depend on their care. But this is the biggest change and reform and I think its good enough to take.
And Lieberman WILL lose his seat.
Not ALL public employees are as bereft of conscience as you GMC. I have experience both the “free” market and Government health care. I can report that Government provided care is much friendlier and more efficient.
BJ, a ‘market’ is where you either buy or trade something of value for a product.
Right, BJ.
How do you think Grannie reeled in her pitiful wretch of a husband?
I tell ya, that poor sap is going straight to heaven for “time served.”
Just say it, Capn. “You caught me.”
Go ahead, it won’t hurt much. You might even like being, actually, fallible. Like the rest of us.
And BTW – NO ONE equivocates and plays with words like the moonbat left. No one.
A question, BTW: Do the letters c – o – n always stick the shift key in your computer? Is it in fact stuck? (Check with Chas – he knows all about stuck caps lock keys). When you type “constabulary” or “conjugate,” for example, does it stick the same way? Or perhaps it’s a mental disorder, a sort of tick. If so, given the tendancy’s common among the left, is it catching?
Or perhaps you’ve never learned the proper rules of capitalization. Need a primer?
;-)
“How do you think Grannie reeled in her pitiful wretch of a husband?”
Are we back to posting about relatives that do not post on this blog?
GMC–
Caught who? Where?
Explain.
(Channeling Nathan now . . . )
You’re right, Hud. That was unfair. I don’t know he’s a pitiful wretch.
He might be into really long “work trips” to Thailand . . .
Anybody else remember when Regular was “moving to Mississippi?”
And he’d log on every couple or three hours to let us know that he was packing and on his way to Mississippi?
This is for you, dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE6YeE3WOf8&feature=related
“He might be into really long “work trips” to Thailand . . .”
I take it you have some experience with long trips to Thailand.
Or Rush’s favorite place . . . the Dominican Republic.
Feeling comfy Capn?
Don’t get too comfy…
(waves letter around)
“I have experience both the “free” market and Government health care. I can report that Government provided care is much friendlier and more efficient.”—BlueJay
Well I’d guess so if you were not paying and wanting it free.
Besides, beggars can’t be choosers.
#
Regular
Posted October 30, 2009 at 6:40 pm | Permalink
Feeling comfy Capn?
Don’t get too comfy…
(waves letter around)
=================================
Regular, for what it’s worth I will offer my opinion.
I don’t think destroying a man’s livelyhood is justified simply because he’s a jackass on a blog.
But, I am not in your situation.
Just my opinion.
Yeah, you’re right, I’ll just leave so I don’t have to read it.
I bet the Libs will still talk about me, even after I’m gone.
Frankly and truthly, I just like to frag the guy into about a thousand bits of flesh.
And a couple of others…
But, I won’t and I’m gone.
#
ANTI
Posted October 30, 2009 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted October 30, 2009 at 6:40 pm | Permalink
Feeling comfy Capn?
Don’t get too comfy…
(waves letter around)
=================================
Regular, for what it’s worth I will offer my opinion.
I don’t think destroying a man’s livelyhood is justified simply because he’s a jackass on a blog.
But, I am not in your situation.
Just my opinion.
—————————————–
Regular like several others on here need to GTFU
Hey Free. Did I miss your appointment as the judge of who should be posting here?
Oh. Never mind Free. I was reading GTFO.
“We are on the way to the barn to be fleeced.” [okie]
Okie, fleecing the sheep is a GOOD thing… guess maybe you didnt know that…
“CapnAmerica
Posted October 30, 2009 at 5:38 pm | Permalink
Yeah, GMC, hehehe.”
CapnAmerica continues to dance. A little two-step quick-step and a bossanova and a rudy valentino!
Third night in a row. And this guy works at a college?
Not only is he increasingly wrong, but he isn’t capable of owning up to it.
Man up Capn!
Or slither off to your new utopian liberal lovefeast website with your tail smartly between your legs.
http://iggydonnelly.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/tuesday-102709-public-square/
http://iggydonnelly.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/tuesday-102709-public-square/
===================================
Interesting, apparently I am well liked by the LIBs. I always knew they loved me.
You bait em well Anti.
You bait em well Anti.
======================
I know.
BTW, you are no slouch yourself.
It is a kindred craft.
“ANTI”, “American way” and several other nics are all constructs of “Regular”.
#
BlueJay
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:45 pm | Permalink
“ANTI”, “American way” and several other nics are all constructs of “Regular”.
========================
Don’t forget Hank, Nathan, Sol, JJ, OL, etc.
You Idiot.
MH is also one of my “constructs”.
Peace out…Oh and F the FAA.
Regular knows I’d never do anything to hurt him in Real Life, in fact I’d do my level best to kick anybody’s ass that tried to hurt him or anybody else on the WEBlog.
I feel a certain amount of affection for the old boy even though he’s a total tool for the right wing who use people like him for their own benefit.
Ragging on somebody’s position on a public blog is not hurting them.
I don’t think he or anybody else would try to “ruin” anybody else here.
What good would that do?
Now I know why Am_Way liked Bush so much:
the both think that claiming victory means that you won.
I haven’t posted at Steven’s blog yet, but it looks interesting and doesn’t deserve the ridicule the CONs level at it.
It’s what you CONs would do if you had any ambition or creativity.
totoinks
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:45 am | Permalink
Deb – maybe some of those doctors will have to give up their country club memberships – do you think??
I’ve worked the health care field for alot of years and I have yet to meet a poor doctor. That animal just does not exist.
*****
Is that what this is about? Envy of doctors? Not everyone is willing to give up YEARS of their lives, scrimping, saving, studying harder than most everyone else in order to get through college, medical school and residency. Now, people want to go after them when after years of patient hard work they reap the fruits of their labor.
totoinks
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:50 am
Currently my private health insurance company pays my doctor approximately half of the bill due to their paying only their negotiated contract price. So why does the doctor overcharge on the bill if he knows my insurance company will only pay half?
Could it be because he is trying to soak the private pay people who will have to pay the entire charge when they go in for an office visit?
And you think this is a fair system?
******
The insurance company makes the agreement with the doctor. The doctor does not have to accept that insurance company. Some doctors will not work with patients who have medicare because medicare does not even cover what it costs the doctor to see the patient. They take a LOSS on medicare patients. Is this fair?
Doctors are SUPPOSED to be in the business of healing not getting rich.
Deb,
Just last week as I was getting my flu shot, I asked my doctor (who sees a lot of Medicare patients) what he recommended in the way of healthcare reform. He said that the simplest and fairest reform would be to expand Medicare to cover everybody; the mechanics of the system are already in place and it wouldn’t take a lot of time to implement. He didn’t seem too worried about losing money.
Most doctors these days are salaried employees of for-profit health care corporations.
They’re paid substantial salaries but are expected to generate income for their corporate masters.
It’s all hooked into what PR people have called “outreach” or insurance companies’ “provider networks.”
But it amounts to your family physician gets paid the same whether anyone’s sick or not. And it’s in your doctor’s best interest to order tests and procedures that can contribute to the corporation which owns his/her practice.
Once the insurance companies are required to cover everyone who applies without regard for their health history, they can pare down the underwriting and rescission departments dramatically. There won’t be the need to search through past medical histories to discover what will be deemed “pre-existing” from the outset, or find what can be used as an excuse to deny coverage or cancel the policy once the insured gets sick.
Think they’ll pass that savings along in the effort to control costs? Yeah, I don’t either. Unless we make sure it is required! Insurance companies have proven they can’t do business honorably unless forced by laws and regulations.
What about doctors who will not accept insurance of any kind? There are clinics, albeit few, where the doctor just charges a fee and has no hassle with insurance companies. These clinics are designed especially to help those who have no health insurance, generally those less well off. It helps the patients since the doctors are charging much less and the doctors do not have to deal with the insurance companies. A service paid for a service given.
BlueJay: I never said that doctors are supposed to be in the business of getting rich. I stated that after far more years than most people are willing to put into school, (along with intensive study during those years) it seems that some are unwilling for them to reap any reward for their labor and thousands of dollars of expense. It seems there are many Americans who expect, yeah demand, to have health care at no price to themselves. Just as free public schools are not “free” but cost thousands of tax dollars per student per year, so health care has a large ticket price yet to be determined.
“totoinks
Posted October 30, 2009 at 9:45 am | Permalink
Deb – maybe some of those doctors will have to give up their country club memberships – do you think??”
I have family who is a doctor. Spent ten years eating PB&J sandwiches going to school. Spent the next ten years paying off the debt and working 10-12 hour days and many longer. Start in AM making hospital rounds. Office for 8 hours, and a couple more in hospital evenings. No weekends. No federal holidays off. Beeper/on call 24-7.
Kids grew up around him. Much time devoted to work first. Many kids events missed when pager goes off.
Doesn’t belong to any country club. Prefers not. Not big in any social status club either.
Now, in a practice with other doc’s, they rotate weekends off. Now reaching that retirement age – still don’t get every weekend off. Still carries the pager/office cell. Still makes rounds at the hospitals.
Make a lot of money? Sure. Pays lots of taxes to everyone (fed,state,local). Have a nice home? Yep. When he gets time to enjoy it.
Vacations over the last 30 years. Not too many. Got that beeper going off…..
You CAN be in the business of the healing arts AND make lots of money. And you GIVE lot’s of money contributed at church, local charities (you can’t hide from as a doc), as well as lots of tax dollars x 30 years of “giving”.
I’d say doctors are contributing their fair share.
Maybe more than.
No law yet against having a job which helps people that also pays well.
Nice anecdote, “American_Way” –
Meaningless. But nice.
A lot of docs now nearing retirement age are residue of the Vietnam War. Smart kids who could afford tuition kept going to school just to keep out of the draft.
They didn’t want to be doctors, particularly. They didn’t aspire to help people. Like a lot of brainiacs, they were just good at school and medical school was an option.
Back in the 80s, the AMA campaigned against women doctors who would “…drive down wages….”
Because, I guess, they thought women would work for cheap, or earn less, or something…
My previous primary care physician retired early to become a missionary in South America. The doc I inherited is about as old but such a slave to the enterprise that owns him he won’t give both the seasonal flu and swine flu vaccinations with the same visit. I have insurance that will pay for two office visits.
The official cost for an office visit is $85 dollars. My insurance company has negotiated a $65 dollar payment which the doctor’s office in contractually bound to accept. But the for-profit company that owns him sends out a pro-forma bill dunning me for the difference. Most good people get such a piece of mail and write a check. I called ‘em up and asked about it and they said, “It must have been sent by mistake.”
I’ve received other such “bills” since then and have ignored them. No follow-up from them. No threats to collect an unpaid bill. They were merely trying to threaten those who tend to pay “bills” as they come in.
This whole discussion isn’t about changing health care. It’s about changing how we’re already paying for it.
It’s about getting insurance company weasels out of the equation.
But you, “American_Way,” seem to be pro-weasel.
Live with that.
Monkeyhawk: Take insurance out of the equation and pay for your visits yourself, but don’t make the taxpayers pay for it. Do you really think the public option is going to eliminate red tape and wasteful spending? You are just trading insurance company red tape for government red tape only now the taxpayers are stuck with the bill and “someone” is still making the money or gaining power….my guess is that it will be the politicians or the politician’s friends.
“It’s about getting insurance company weasels out of the equation.”
And replacing them with Government weasels, forming a monopoly, and taking complete control of our health care.
Jimbo,
And you think your insurance company doesn’t control your healthcare? At least the government isn’t in it to make a profit from denying you the care you paid your premiums to get. The only reason there is a healthcare issue is because the insurance industry screws it’s policy holders. They even got up in front of congress and bragged about it, and you want to defend their right to do it?