President Obama should set a timetable to get our troops out of Afghanistan as soon as is practically possible. Their presence cannot contribute to bringing peace and security to that country, nor does it contribute to the security of the United States. In fact, the occupation of Afghanistan is making things worse. The United States has helped put together a government dominated in key positions — especially military, police and intelligence — by Tajiks, the ethnic group whose paramilitary leaders were the first to strike a deal with the invading forces. Not surprisingly, this contributed to the nationalist fuel for the insurgency among the Pashtuns, the country’s largest ethnic group. This contribution to ethnic conflict is a common mistake, or sometimes a tactic, of occupying powers that helps drive lasting and violent civil wars. — Mark Weisbrot, Center for Economic and Policy Research
There are many reasons for hunkering down in Afghanistan and adopting a tougher military strategy so Americans and their NATO allies can finally leave behind a more stable — though barely democratic — Middle East. New York City, Philadelphia, Denver, Springfield, Ill., and the U.S. Marine Corps base at Quantico, Va., are high among those reasons. All five places were prime targets of suspected radical Islamic jihadists, as emerged from plots the FBI and local police nixed in September. Most of the would-be terrorists the FBI has identified and arrested had trained at various al-Qaida camps in or near Afghanistan. And all of them had gained cover in the United States by posing as normal members of moderate Muslim communities. — Bogdan Kipling, for McClatchy-Tribune News Service
122 Comments
As I’ve posted before liberals need to write, call, or email your leadership in the US House, Senate, and White House and urge Obama to bring all our troops home. Bring them home by XMAS.
Obama and democrats do not have the heart to fight and win a war which will surely extend throughout the Obama presidency – and beyond. This is not my way of being critical. It is being practical and honest. The majority of democrats are against it now – including 1/3 of republicans and independents. These numbers will go up as time, deaths, and costs continue. Like America, we want it all and we want it now. Not so the muslim heart and soul. They have a life time and afterlife to fight the great satan.
Worse, the goals are not clear to anyone. Especially and most importantly the indecisive president. His administration is the process of “inventing” the reasons – the mission. Then, they will try to seel those reasons on an already disapproving public. We are people, putting the cart before the horse.
The Afghanistan has already become a political war. There are no front lines. The enemy includes the local population. It includes children who grow up with Osama dolls – their hero.
Even this thread lead invents a reason to fight, yet the goal will not prevent the terrorism (now labeled “extremism” as politically correct). See what I mean by political?
Our military is not built to win the hearts and minds of the populace. It’s not built to indoctrinate a western style democracy which will surely never work in the afghanistan world. Nothing will stick. Admireable aspirations? Yes. Practical? No.
We kicked the Taliban and Al Queda but t. We got our payback for 911. We didnn’t get Osama, but you don’t need to own a country to do that – as already proven.
We won’t stay to win. So please join me and encourage our leaders to BRING THE TROOPS HOME BY XMAS. And yes, I have written Kansas republicans and the republican leadership. It would be great if the opposition JOINED Obama in calling for immediate withdrawal. It would give the democrats the cover they need.
Whatever it takes. Please, no more pointless deaths of our overextended, tired, and worn out military. No more family separations (since 2001 those career military have endured literally years of rotating tours in Iraq/Afghan. Their children have nearly grown UP, while dad and/or mom are away. Think about this one. 2001!!).
Make up a reason to come home now. Don’t wait for 3,4,or 8 more years to declare victory.
If I remember correctly, the initial “purpose” of this invasion was to get bin laden. The taliban was a secondary target because it supported bin laden.
Seems like overkill to me. We have the special forces troops who have the training, ability, equipment to go there in very small, covert squads who could find/capture/kill bin laden. We don’t need (my opinion only) thousands of troops and tens of thousands of support personnel to go after one man.
I don’t believe we should let bin laden go…but do we need an army to find him?
Get in, or get out
After 911, the US was like a hornets nest. We lashed out at the enemy without regard to the consequences of our actions. We wanted revenge.
I say we got it. Declare victory, or face the reality that we will expend much American blood and greatly increase the national debt – money we do not have.
If democracy “like” government becomes part of the “goal”, then be prepared for at least a decade of fighting and manning. Democracy doesn’t happen overnight.
He11, we are still in Japan and Europe.
Total war funding approved to date $830,200,000,000
President’s new funding request (FY09) $77,057,000,000
The (borrowed) money could provide:
In Pre-Obama liberals views:
People with health insurance for one year:
22,710,848
Homes w/renewable electricity for 1 year:
79,773,852
Students with maximum Pell Grants:
14,403,178
http://www.ncpeaceaction.org/resources/May-2009-war-on-Afghanistan.html
“He11, we are still in Japan and Europe.”
Yep, nest time you drive a Toyota or a BMW and bad mouth the American system or the American worker you need to remember that Europe and Japan have been operating under the protective defense umbrella of the United States for 65 years.
It’s a trap. Set by the folks behind the “Project for a New American Century”.
Cheney and those folks KNEW we could never win. Their intention was that we never leave. The backup plan should they fall out of power as they have, was to be able to blame a Democratic administration :
1) for continued loss in blood and treasure.
2) for leaving Afghanistan in a broken condition so they could start the “we gotta get the scary terrorists!” bit all over again.
What’s the answer in Afghanistan? Short answer is there IS no answer. But the upshot is we must learn who the true enemies are. That would be the very Republicans around us and posting this forum.
Hank,
I drive a Japanese pickup made in that most Japaese city of Akron, Ohio. The Dodge I used to own was made by Mitsubishi, the same company that made Zeros. You’re going to have to be more specific.
Other than compassion for the people of Afghanistan, the only reason I would suggest staying there is:
– Gateways to Iran, Russian derived countries, Pakistan
– Stability in that particular region
– Hands around the necks of the Taliban (keeping them under control)
I’m not so sure it is worth the blood and treasure of the United States though. The country is tribal with no industry other than crude agriculture, drugs being the foremost leader of crops.
To be in the business of empire and assimilation of a culture into the 21st century is not necessarily our job.
If Pakistan can handle the Taliban, I say remove our troops and come on home.
We’ll deal with any Al Qaeda as they pop up in Afghanistan in the future.
“Seems like overkill to me. We have the special forces troops who have the training, ability, equipment to go there in very small, covert squads who could find/capture/kill bin laden. We don’t need (my opinion only) thousands of troops and tens of thousands of support personnel to go after one man.” [Raptor]
RE: Special forces –
I think you been watching too many Steven Segal movies…
“We won’t stay to win. So please join me and encourage our leaders to BRING THE TROOPS HOME BY XMAS.” [AmWay]
AmWay, I see you are using the old Gen. MacArthur Battle Cry from the Korean “War” days… Didnt work too well for the crazy General, eh??
As for Afghanistan, we went in looking for Bin Laden. Bin Laden is no longer in Afghanistan, but we are, because going in is much easier than getting out. We’re damned if we stay and damned if we leave. If for no other reason than we made promises to the Afghan people in exchange for their support, which they have given as best they could, for the second time around. The first time we abandoned them as soon as our use for them was fulfilled. We do it a second time, we can kiss that part of the world goodbye forever. Iran is watching, so is Pakistan, so are most of those whose trust we’re trying to cultivate in that end of the world.
AmWay, that’s not to say I buy into staying in Afghanistan… I have been advocating for a number of years, that we should have taken out ALL of their damned poppy fields immediately, and cut off a main source of funding for both Taliban and AlQuada… With that heroin wampum, they pretty much got nothing…. WHY havent we done something about that?? WHY havent we tried to do something about their funding sources… Surely our intelligence is good enough to follow the $$$. Could it be that Bush/Cheney just werent interested in REALLY finding bin Laden?? Hmmmmm??? I mean, Bush did say once that bin Laden was no longer a high priority…
Ahh, but: “We’re gonna hunt down the evildoers and bring em to justice.” [GWB, ad infinitum/ad nauseum post 9/11]
correction: “main source of funding” should be “major source of funding” — sorry bout that… lonnnng night last night…
Chas writes: Ahh, but: “We’re gonna hunt down the evildoers and bring em to justice.” [GWB, ad infinitum/ad nauseum post 9/11]
Yeah Chas, like that usual Lib mantra is helpful to anyone.
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:21 am | Permalink
AmWay, that’s not to say I buy into staying in Afghanistan… I have been advocating for a number of years, that we should have taken out ALL of their damned poppy fields immediately, and cut off a main source of funding for both Taliban and AlQuada… With that heroin wampum, they pretty much got nothing…. WHY havent we done something about that?? WHY havent we tried to do something about their funding sources… Surely our intelligence is good enough to follow the $$$. Could it be that Bush/Cheney just werent interested in REALLY finding bin Laden?? Hmmmmm??? I mean, Bush did say once that bin Laden was no longer a high priority…
———————————————
Uh,Chas, Your boy is in control now,why hasn’t he done anything?
“we should have taken out ALL of their damned poppy fields immediately”
I agree Chas.
A few retired veteran buddy “experts” and I have discussed this a few times over late night jamming sessions conducted in secret inside our garages amonst the power tools and work benches over run and cokes.
The pentagon should secretly hire every crop duster in America. Those guys who fly those little planes in circles, through barns, and spray bug juice on the agricultural crops in America.
The pentagon should also secretly hire experienced small farmers, FFA, and Farm Bureau members. These experts in crop, seed, animal husbandry, should be provided the Afghanistan soil/weather requirements and come up with plan to start a new agricultural future for Afghanistan. They should amass the seed, and farm equipement to be flowing into Afghanistan.
The US should then encourage/force the warlords to give up control/ownership of all the lands of Afghanistan. Land grants should return ownership to the farmers presently paying blackmail rent to the warlord owners.
Then, when the weather forecast has calm winds, the crop dusters should fly over every poppy field in Afghanistan spraying WEED BE GONE over the poppy crop. In 24 hours it would die, along with the drug profits and underground mafia style economy.
The farmers move in with a plan and farm equipment and replant the country to success!
Much like the agricultural American history developed.
Maybe too few or too many brewskies or R&C’s?
‘chas’ in case you have already forgotten, it was not siegal who shot those pirates at 75 yards on a moving life raft, it was Navy Seals.
the US has specialized squads who should be capable of finding one man…I don’t think we need an entire army there to find one person.
Had the Taliban giving Osama Bin Laden and the rest of the Al Queda leadership, we wouldn’t have invaded.
And the Taliban would still be in charge?
#
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:45 am | Permalink
Maybe too few or too many brewskies or R&C’s?
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I’m gonna have to go with ‘too many’ as the answer to your question.
First of all, take bin Laden out of the list of factors that need to be considered when deciding the best course of action for the U.S. in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden has been dead for years and most likely died in December of 2001.
Like I said the other day, the Bush administration lost interest in Afghanistan less than six months after 9-11. That was the time to start the removal of ground troops from Afghanistan.
Part of the problem right now is that the state of national governance in Afghanistan is in a state of flux. Hamid Karzai has been exposed as a cheater and negotiations are ongoing between the Karzai faction and the representatives of Dr. Abdullah Abdullah as to the way forward in seating a democratically elected president. There is talk of a run-off election between the two but there are doubts as to whether a fair run-off election can take place in the short time that exists before Winter takes hold.
Put me down as one who advocates troop withdrawal as soon as is reasonably possible. I have a hard time believing that you are serious with your ‘bring the troops home by Christmas’ BS. The SOFA negotiated with the Maliki government called for the last troops to be withdrawn from Iraq years from the time the agreement was negotiated.
I say, wait a moderate interval after a legitimately elected government is seated, declare the peaceful transition of power a victory, and then GTFO in a safe and timely manner; Spring of 2010 would be a good time.
Daniel,
You caught me. I’m not serious. Bringing the troops home by Xmas is a battle cry. It’s the idea of bringing them home soonest – as the FIRST thought FIRST consideration PRIMARY motivator, in the decision making.
They are, afterall, the ones paying the price for indecision.
Also I don’t care about the Iraq SOFA agreement. Neither did democrats when they voted and attempted to vote to cut off funds – and demand a withdrawal schedule.
So I’m pretty much asking for the same thing libs were when Bush had us committed to the wrong war.
“Then, when the weather forecast has calm winds, the crop dusters should fly over every poppy field in Afghanistan spraying WEED BE GONE over the poppy crop. In 24 hours it would die, along with the drug profits and underground mafia style economy.” [AmWay]
Crop Dusters??? What the….??? Just Napalm the poppy fields, and be done with it!!!
And then, get the troops out… UNLESS they really CAN get bin Laden….
My wife jokingly says bin Laden is the tall skinny guy in a Sombrero, clearing brush at the Crawford Ranch…. LOL :-))
Just an observation. I never knew liberal democrats were still into “nation building”. I thought that died with JFK and LBJ?
I thought we all agreed that the USA should get out of the job of being the policemen for the world?
Guess not.
At least I THINK she was joking…
“Just Napalm the poppy fields”
Now Chas, what happened to the environmentalist in you?
Napalm is an oil product. It is extremely harmful to the environment. Besides, the fires would burn down the huts the poor Afghan people live in.
We can’t have that, can we?
My wife jokingly claims Osama binLaden posts on the weblog as Chas :-)
” bin Laden is the tall skinny guy in a Sombrero”
Not true. I can tell you I am sure I saw him when I was on a business trip to WASHD.C.. He was driving my cab which dropped me off at the corner of 14th St NW and E Street at the Willard Hotel*.
*Where there is a plaque outside the lobby stating that General USS Grant coined or popularized the phrase, “lobbyist” in their lobby.
At least, I THINK she was joking…
“Osama binLaden posts on the weblog as Chas ”
I used to frequent the popular BBS MSNBC political bulletin board.
It closed down immediately after 911. I heard rumors it was because the terrorists or their supporters had used it toward their attack on 911.
It never came back and I never read anything on the truth of this matter.
American_Way,
I only mentioned the SOFA in Iraq to point out the impracticality of removing all troops from Afghanistan by Christmas. Like I said, Spring of 2010 would be a good time to start a troop draw down in my book.
I think Osama is pro pull out, how would that be Chas? Pot calling the kettle black?
I think we should redeploy all the troops from Iraq to Afghanistan.
Osama says bring ‘em home NOW!
” think we should redeploy all the troops from Iraq to Afghanistan.”
I’m sure the families who have been waiting months will appreciate that.
I’m sure the pentegon will consider your advice as the best logistical, mission-orientated, in theatre demanded course of action. Very prudent of you.
Have you mailed your suggestion to the JCS? I’m sure they are waiting with baited breath for it.
Phantom
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:07 am | Permalink
Osama says bring ‘em home NOW!
=========================================
Of course he would say that…. Which is why I keep wondering why so many CONS are siding with the Terrorist in Chief??? Hmmmm??
Too many CONs subscribe to the “Bomb them back to the Stone Age” approach to military force.
It’s kinda difficult when the targets are already living in the bronze age.
“Eh? Start planting more poppies.”
If you don’t understand your “enemy,” and if you don’t understand exactly what makes your “enemy” an “enemy,” you’re likely to lose.
As I stated upthread, the issue of Afghanistan has nothing to do with Afghanistan. It’s a far-off primitive culture that simply doesn’t (or shouldn’t) matter to the civilized world.
Shrub got us in there for, maybe, some substantive reasons…in 2001. He discovered those reasons didn’t support neo-CON orthodoxy and committed trillions of dollars to Iraq on the basis of fear and lies and sweetheart contracts with the Vice-President’s biggest investment partner.
That’s the way it was.
That’s the way it is.
Thank heaven we finally have a President of the United States who’s asking the tough questions and taking the time to come up with what will surely be tough answers.
I’m guessing…
BOMB! BOMB! BOMB!
BOMB! BOMB IRAN
…won’t be one of those answers.
“Osama says bring ‘em home NOW!”
Is that intended to imply that we need to stay in Afghanistan – based upon what a ghost says?
Your logic is based upon the feelings of one man?
But I don’t think your intended position is actually correct.
The continued presence of Satan American Trooops on Muslim soil is a rallying cry for their cause. The young are tripping over each other to join in the chance to kill Americans.
Remember, the logic Obama professed in his speech to the Muslim world from Eygpt. Remember? He apologized for the “ugly Americans” wrongfully interfering in their affairs.
We can’t pull a bush One, get half the populace of a country (in his case Iraq) to rise up against their oppressors, and then abandon them (again). we have very little credibility in the world as it is. The Taliban would clean house upon our withdraw.
“BOMB! BOMB! BOMB!
BOMB! BOMB IRAN
…won’t be one of those answers.”
Actually it already is Obama’s answer:
“Under Obama, drone attacks on the rise in Pakistan
Under President Barack Obama, the pace of strikes by pilotless “drone” aircraft on insurgents in Pakistan is rising and could pick up further after a White House review of regional war strategy.
There have been 39 drone strikes in Pakistan since Obama took office not quite nine months ago, according to a Reuters tally of reports from Pakistani security officials, local government officials and residents.
That compares with 33 strikes in the 12 months before Obama was sworn in on January 20.” Reuters 12 Oct 09
And the drone attacks are pi$$ing off the Pakistan civlian population as the Satan USA continues to kill women and children.
“get half the populace of a country to rise up against their oppressors ”
Phantom, can you support that post? Where is the poll of Afghan people?
Where are the facts?
Or is this the same spin like Bush used to promote HIS unjust war?
From the books and articles I have read of the Afghanistan War since 2001, and what I have discussed with military enlisted and officers here at home, most of the Afghan people run and hide during the fighting. Most of the people just want us to go away – they are tired of the Russians and now Americans winning their hearts and minds. (I’ll bet the Aztec’s and American Indians felt much the same way.)
The Afghan people know we will cut and run. They KNOW their very lives are at risk from cooperating with the US and NATO troops – because when we leave their villages at night, the Taliban will get revenge. And when we leave their country, the Taliban will rule again.
And many Afghan people actually prefer the Taliban! Even though they were oppressive, they kept the peace and tranquility. The Taliban were a stabilizing force. They cut poppy production (although secretly allowed it). But the point is the Taliban ARE the people.
To suggest the Afghan people “rose up” against the evil empire is not something I’ve read from a historical perspective.
If OSAMA (NOT Obama) is saying he wants American Troops to go home… And OSAMA (not Obama) is the Terrorist in Chief…
WHY do so many CONS side with OSAMA (not Obama)???
Hey, let the drones bomb out the poppy fields… No American lives at risk that way…
Why do I have have the feeling the if Obama ordered all the troops home tomorrow, that the cons would change their views and scream about that instead? A year ago it was we cant cut in Run and now that Obama is President its Run? Somehow I think is more just be opposite whatever Obama does than have a real coherent Ideology?
“The Afghan people know we will cut and run. They KNOW their very lives are at risk from cooperating with the US and NATO troops – because when we leave their villages at night, the Taliban will get revenge. And when we leave their country, the Taliban will rule again.” [AmWay]
Interesting… So, when Liberals wanted to leave Iraq, the Right Wing called us anti-troops, and unamerican for wanting to “cut and run” — But for WEEKS, AmWay, you have been advocating ad nauseum that we “cut and run” from Afghanistan… even to the point of using the MacArthur line of “Bring em home by Christmas” —
ummm… sounds like you need a break, and some good single malt scotch….
And of course, that single malt scotch is most important…. break or no break!! LOL
“that the cons would change their views and scream about that instead? ”
I agree with you. I posted as much earlier today.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/pro-con-should-u-s-pull-out-of-afghanistan/#comment-684842
Republicans should join forces with those opposed to continuing the war. But they will not. As I’ve said they will keep that right up their with their stupid stuck on abortion, strong defense (to the point of idiocy).
But most Americans (when you include 2/3 democrats, 1/3 republicans, and 2/3 independents) are already against the war. Those numbers traditionally won’t get any higher as the war(s) continue. Those strongly against will continue to grow even faster.
Fuq republicans – do the right thing.
“Those numbers traditionally won’t get any higher ”
I meant to say the numbers of those SUPPORTING the war won’t go any higher.
No justification or invented reason will hold water for long.
“So, when Liberals wanted to leave Iraq, the Right Wing called us anti-troops, and unamerican for wanting to “cut and run” ”
And I had battles with the likes of Max/JimJohnson on this one for example. It wasn’t just libs wanting us to leave Iraq. Don’t forget the republicans and independents who joined democrats in voting for Obama.
But is that point now? What’s the plan Stan? What are we going to do NOW!!
What is right?
(and a good single malt would be good, but I have to start wiring a new 20amp circuit in my garage shortly. Drinking and work don’t work very well for me. Drinking and naps or drinking and fishing. But never work!)
Guess I’ve had my share of posting this morning. Got work to do.
It is interesting witnessing this reversal of traditional roles of democrats and republicans. Watching liberals try to be warhawks and the policemen of the world, along with diehard republicans. Tough acting.
War – what is it good for?
“we should have taken out ALL of their damned poppy fields immediately”
You had better have a plan to replace Afghanistan’s number one cash crop with something of equal value or risk PO’ing even more of the population. Most Afghani’s don’t care for the US presence anyway – if we were to remove most of their revenue, we would have a full-scale insurgency that would make Iraq look like a Sunday school picnic.
“You had better have a plan to replace Afghanistan’s number one cash crop ”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/pro-con-should-u-s-pull-out-of-afghanistan/#comment-684880
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:21 am | Permalink
AmWay, that’s not to say I buy into staying in Afghanistan…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:13 am | Permalink
Phantom
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:07 am | Permalink
Osama says bring ‘em home NOW!
=========================================
Of course he would say that…. Which is why I keep wondering why so many CONS are siding with the Terrorist in Chief??? Hmmmm??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FLIP
FLOP
HIP
HOP
CHAS GOES
WHERE THE
WIND BLOWS
Those Obama drones have taken out 20 top Al-quida figures, and disrupted they way they’ve been able to freely travel, so I’d say Obama’s done more againts Al-quida than bush did. Much of the ‘collateral’ damage has been to Al-quida lesser figures, and their families. Too bad, so sad. Drone on.
I have it from the most reliable source that Osama is currently hanging with Elvis, DB Cooper and Judge Crater. They are talking over the idea of starting a boy band.
“War – what is it good for?” [AmWay]
ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN!!!
WHY does JimJohnson support the opinion of Osama bin Laden??? WHY does JimJohnson side with the world’s Terrorist in Chief???
So Chas, are you for the US staying in Afghanistan or not?
You flip flop so much, it’s hard to tell.
Yes or No Chas?
Say Chas, Osama bin Laden is heterosexual.
Chas, aren’t you heterosexual?
Chas, why do you share the same preference as Osama bin Laden?
Chas, you must be a terrorist. Why do you hate America so much Chas?
And Chas, why are you such a racist?
“http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/pro-con-should-u-s-pull-out-of-afghanistan/#comment-”
What crop, AmWay, in all seriousness? Given the intended purpose of the poppies, few crop could complete with the revenue stream from poppies. The have pretty much the same problem in Columbia with cocoa.
Johnson, if sexuality is something we are all born with, your point is moot…
As to political persuasions, YOU are the one siding with Osama… Why do YOU Hate America, Johnson?? You prove it DAILY on this BLOG…
Are you a terrorist in hiding, Johnson?? Your support of bin Ladens position on troop removal from Afghanistan would seem to prove that you support the Terrorist in Chief, rather than supporting OUR US Commander in Chief…
Why cant you make up your friggin mind??
As far as Afghanistan, I have long said that if we had gone in and bombed the poppy fields to begin with, there would BE no war in Afghanistan…
Chas,
Why do you want more Americans to die in a war that won’t be won?
Re: JimJohnson….
NO MORE TROLL SOUP FOR JIMJOHNSON!! NOT TODAY… NOT EVER!!! JOHNSON IS AN IRRELEVANT B00B!!
fREEBIRD >>>>
“If we had gone in and bombed the poppy fields to begin with, there would BE no war in Afghanistan…”
PLEASE READ… THANK YOU VERY MUCH….
Chas,
I DID READ,obviously you either can’t or wont answer a direct question. BTW if frogs had wings they wouldn’t bust their azz when they jumped.
i DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE “LATEST” 4,000 TROOPS SENT TO AFGHANISTAN ARE ADDITIONAL TROOPS… BUT REPLACEMENT TROOPS, IN ORDER TO BRING 4,000 TROOPS HOME, OR AT LEAST OUT OF AFGHANISTAN…
I THINK THE REPORTS OF “EXTRA” TROOPS, ARE NOTHING MORE THAN CON-SPEAK FALSE HYPE…
Freebird —
How much more of a direct answer do you want??? My denomination is pacifist… we are against ALL war…
However, neither my denomination, nor I advocated WAR… We now only want our President to make a studied, intelligent, well-researched decision as to how to handle the Taliban and al-Quada…
GET IT???
I’m finished with this stupidity….
Carry on, if you must….
Nice dodge Chas, BTW he is the president not my president.
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:44 pm | Permalink
Nice dodge Chas, BTW he is the president not my president.
=============================================
Are you not a Citizen?? Are you an illegal immigrant??
Is Freebird against our Constitution??
i see chas is starting another all caps meltdown. predictable as the sun rise, isn’t it?
Chas,
I am an American the president is just that the president. I have never said ANY president is my president he is the just the president.
Chas,why are you willing to let more Americans die?
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:41 pm | Permalink
Freebird —
How much more of a direct answer do you want??? My denomination is pacifist… we are against ALL war…
———————————-
So the US should have never fought in WWII, according to Chas.
Chas, why do you hate the Jews so much? Why do you love Hitler?
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:41 pm | Permalink
Freebird —
How much more of a direct answer do you want??? My denomination is pacifist… we are against ALL war…
==============================
So Obama is wrong for keeping US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
All US troops should come home.
In fact, Chas would be for elmininating the US Military since he is against ALL war.
Chas, why do you hate US Troops so much?
Freebird1971,
Do you have or know of a plan whereby no more troops in Afghanistan would die? If you do, you should let your president know about it.
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:55 pm | Permalink
Chas,
I am an American the president is just that the president. I have never said ANY president is my president he is the just the president.
Chas,why are you willing to let more Americans die?
============================
Chas must hate Americans.
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:41 pm | Permalink
Freebird —
How much more of a direct answer do you want??? My denomination is pacifist… we are against ALL war…
However, neither my denomination, nor I advocated WAR… We now only want our President to make a studied, intelligent, well-researched decision as to how to handle the Taliban and al-Quada…
===============================================
What a complete and total SHEEP.
Chas has no opinion. He’s waiting for Obama to tell him what his opinion should be.
Daniel
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
Freebird1971,
Do you have or know of a plan whereby no more troops in Afghanistan would die
———————————-
Bring them home
Daniel,
He may be your president to me he is just the president
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
Bring them home
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When date could you have them all out by? Would you leave functional equipment behind to facilitate the faster withdrawal of personnel or bring it out as well? Would you wait until other NATO troops are out too or leave them behind to fend for themselves?
Can you guarantee that no troops would be lost during the withdrawal? If not, why are you willing to let more Americans die?
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Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:08 pm | Permalink
Daniel,
He may be your president to me he is just the president
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I believe that the POTUS is president to all Americans.
If it offends you ,sorry get over it
doesn’t bother me seems to upset you thought
Anyway, I’m heading out for the afternoon. My thanks to American_Way, Freebird1971, and blogmonitor for an interesting exchange of ideas and for offering me a different perspective from my own on some issues.
Have a good one.
If Obama can’t unscrew the pooch in 9 mo., what good is he?
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Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
doesn’t bother me seems to upset you thought
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That last bit was just a friendly dig. I should have stuck a smiley face on the end of it.
:)
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
Daniel
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
Freebird1971,
Do you have or know of a plan whereby no more troops in Afghanistan would die
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Bring them home
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I agree.
“Bring them home”
See? Told ya.
And just as soon as the troops start pulling out, the right will strike up a new tune about how the President cut and ran. It is the inherent strength of the right as ever at work. Blame Government for all the ills in the world then when IN Government use the office to fulfill the prophecy and finally, blame Democrats and Government for getting it wrong again. MOST cons aren’t smart enough to really understand the hypocrisy and dishonesty that is the very framework of their party. Those few who do are enemies not just to America but to the world.
“President Obama should set a timetable to get our troops out of Afghanistan as soon as is practically possible.” Without having looked, I’d bet Mark Weisbrot was adamant that giving a deadline for withdrawl from Iraq was giving aid and comfort to the enemy, in the not so very long ago.
Blue Jay isnt smart enough to see that the world isn’t divided between con and lib and whereever the he11 he is.
Daniel,
No harm no foul
Freebird I know that people like you have just one principle, money. The party that will protect you and your money will earn your unswerving loyalty and ok with absolutely anything that they do.
Blue Jay you sad pathetic coward I belong to no party. Yo don’t want to know anything about anybody that would put a shade of gray in your black and white world view.
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BlueJay
Posted October 24, 2009 at 6:14 pm | Permalink
Freebird I know that people like you have just one principle, money. The party that will protect you and your money will earn your unswerving loyalty and ok with absolutely anything that they do.
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You don’t know jack sheet about me. You had your chance to meet me and discuss but you showed yourself for what you really are
BTW BJ for the record you backed out of 2 chances to meet
One on less than 24 hours notice? You overestimate yourself.
What were you afraid of the other night?
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BlueJay
Posted October 24, 2009 at 6:27 pm | Permalink
One on less than 24 hours notice? You overestimate yourself.
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No it was you I overestimated, I thought I was trying to engage an adult
I guess we will see. IF President Obama withdraws the troops, and I am not saying he will, I would BET that you “Freebird” would be using the fact against him the very next day.
You would lose, I want the troops out now
There again BJ you know nothing about someone but yet you predict their actions.
I know cons. You can flip your commitments on a dime FOR a nickel.
IF the President decides to withdraw the troops, he should make well known the bush administrations INTENT to establish a permanent presence in the region and the resulting placement of him being put in the position of being accused of cut and run. Like I said, it was all set up from the start.
Free…you cannot discuss logically with someone who can only see in black and white and refuses to see the world as it is.
bj has demonstrated many times an astonishing level of immaturity that has no room for anything outside his myopic viewpoints.
Raptor,
Thanks myopic was the word I was searching for
It aint “myopia” to see all that is there.
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BlueJay
Posted October 24, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
It aint “myopia” to see all that is there.
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When you going to start?
Blue Jay,
I could give a rat’s azz why he pulls them out just pull them out and bring them home.
I’ll wait for you to tell me what I really believe
. Like I said, it was all set up from the start.
Curious,you got any facts to support that position?
Blue Jay, Since the short notice thing bothers you how bout next Sat at 10 at Don’s I’ll buy breakfast
I’ll buy breakfast
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Don’t think BJ can stomach anything Freebird. As much tough stuff he’s been talking he is obviously scared sheatless. I’m thinking he’d puke if he ate anything.
Fear can eat at a man something awful. And BJ’s got it bad.
But if’n it was me, I’d accept and order the most expensive steak and eggs on the menu – and a large OJ…
None of that small stuff.
Roach,
Hell yeah I would too as long as someone else is buying. I figured as much as BJ likes handouts I figured he wouldn’t be able to pass up a free meal.
But Roach I would ask you to take it easy on my wallet,ya see I’m not one of the “evil rich” people making money off of others,I work for what I have.
Free – I see you as a genuine good spirit with a heart of gold. I’d never take advantage of that, only a fool would. Your words of wisdom from experience are worth their weight in gold. And please know that the school of hard knock experience is every bit as precious to a good listener as anything the evil rich could offer.
Too bad I’m too far away to take you up on the generous offer you made man-to-man sight unseen to BJ..
I think there are more people needing to hear your story Free than anything an Obama could ever teach me in private.
A man could learn a lot from someone willing to share from the heart.
BJ’s loss.
Roach,
I appreciate that, I’m not anything special just a guy trying to to the best he can for himself and those close to him. You ever get down this way holler and it would be my priveldge to have breakfast with you. Not real sure what your political views are but I don’t base my opinions of a person on their politics. WS and I are miles apart on quite a few issuesbut we have been able to get past that and I am proud to call him a friend
are miles apart on quite a few issues
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For your above post – it would be MY honor.
And when I win the Powerball I will be coming your way…
only if I don’t win it first,then I come your way
And all of them had gained cover from the United States when chief chicken hawk george bush jr invaded the wrong freakin country.
ol bin laden musta laughed his skinny azz off to see the military zoom right through afghanistan and stay in iraq for years.
he probably told his people… “see i told you i would make the usa weak fighting in iraq and we don’t even have anyone there from our group…lol”
yeah bush did us proud didn’t he?
Afghanistan is very difficult and always has been, but, almost ignored by the media, some important things have happened. In 2000, under the Taliban, there were 800,000 children in school, almost every one of them a boy. Today there are 8.4 million children in school, including 2.5 million girls. Do we really want to turn the country back to those gentle folk who make women their slaves?