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69 Comments
Your Sunday morning cartoon –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndKD2_Lqbwg
Your Sunday morning hymn –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sS5jSbV0Vg
Your Sunday morning sermon –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy_nIup_5-g&feature=related
How come no WE Blog CONs are outraged by health insurance companies’ immunity to anti-trust laws?
Monkeyhawk
Posted October 25, 2009 at 7:29 am | Permalink
How come no WE Blog CONs are outraged by health insurance companies’ immunity to anti-trust laws
————–
Dunno Monkey, it takes a lot to get me outraged. I take it that you outraged about it? Why?
And what was the rational for the government providing health insurance companies anti-trust exemptions in the first place?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYFYL5m3118&feature=related
Keeps me from being ‘outraged’.
“outlander” –
Maybe it has to do with campaign
bribesconations.Y’think?
Anti-trust laws used to be a Repubic Party principle.
It’s sort of a principle with me Monkey. I don’t get outraged over “maybe”. Let’s explore your outrage to see if it’s reasonable.
Who was president when the McCarren-Ferguson Act was enacted? Did this act just leave the insurance industry unregulated? If not, who did it leave the regulation to?
Did you notice your default? I did.
“outlander” –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVHW5JOzv6A
Monkeyhawk
Posted October 25, 2009 at 7:29 am | Permalink
How come no WE Blog CONs are outraged by health insurance companies’ immunity to anti-trust laws?
——————————-
The court ruled that the insurance was not commerce and could not be subjudgated under the ‘Interstate Commerce Clause.’
From Wiki
The McCarran-Ferguson Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1011, is a United States federal law that allows state law to regulate the business of insurance without federal government interference. The McCarran-Ferguson Act was passed by Congress in 1945 after the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association that the federal government could regulate insurance companies under the authority of the Commerce Clause in the U.S. Constitution.
The Act was sponsored by Senators Pat McCarran (D-NV) and Homer Ferguson (R-MI).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarran-Ferguson_Act
The question before the Court was whether or not insurance was a form of “interstate commerce” which could be regulated under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution and the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. The general opinion in law before this case, according to the Court, was that the business of insurance was not commerce, and the District Court concurred with the opinion. In dissent at 322 U.S. 588, Justice Jackson of the Supreme Court concluded that:
“4. Any enactment by Congress either of partial or of comprehensive regulations of the insurance business would come to us with the most forceful presumption of constitutional validity. The fiction that insurance is not commerce could not be sustained against such a presumption, for resort to the facts would support the presumption in favor of the congressional action. The fiction therefore must yield to congressional action, and continues only at the sufferance of Congress.
5. Congress also may, without exerting its full regulatory powers over the subject, and without challenging the basis or supplanting the details of state regulation, enact prohibitions of any acts in pursuit of the insurance business which substantially affect or unduly burden or restrain interstate commerce.”
#In short, while not changing the opinion of prevailing law, the Court stated that the conclusion that insurance was not commerce under the law rested with Congress, and that the Court would follow the lead of Congress.
As a result, on March 9, 1945, the McCarran-Ferguson Act was passed by Congress. Among other things, it allows for:
– the state regulation of insurance
– allows states to establish mandatory licensing requirements
– preserves certain state laws of insurance.
“Maybe it has to do with campaign bribes donations.”
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 21, 2009
As liberal protesters marched outside, Sen. Max Baucus sat down inside a San Francisco mansion for a dinner of chicken cordon bleu and a
discussion of landmark health-care legislation under consideration by his Senate Finance Committee.
At the table on May 26 were about 20 donors willing to fork over $10,000 or more to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, including executives of major insurance companies, hospitals and other health-care
firms.
“Most people there had an agenda; they wanted the ear of a senator, and they got it,” said Aaron Roland, a San Francisco health-care activist who paid half price to attend the gathering. “Money gets you in the door. The only thing the other side can do is march around and protest
outside.”
As his committee has taken center stage in the battle over health-care reform, Chairman Baucus (D-Mont.) has emerged as a leading recipient of Senate campaign contributions from the hospitals, insurers and other medical interest groups hoping to shape the legislation to their advantage. Health-related companies and their employees gave Baucus’s political committees nearly $1.5 million in 2007 and 2008, when he began holding hearings and making preparations for this year’s reform debate.
Many former Baucus staff members, including two chiefs of staff, lobby on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry and other health-care players and have been closely involved in negotiations on the legislation.
But Baucus, a senator from a sparsely populated and conservative Western state who is serving his sixth term, stands out for the rising tide of
health-care contributions to his campaign committee, Friends of Max Baucus, and his political-action committee, Glacier PAC. Baucus collected $3 million from the health and insurance sectors from 2003 to 2008, about 20 percent of the total, data show. Less than 10 percent of the money came from Montana.”
Examples from Baucus’s Glacier PAC include $5,000 from the Independent Insurance Agents and Brokers of America and $2,500 from lobbyists with
U.S. Strategies, which represents numerous health-care firms. Overall, half of the $110,000 in donations to the PAC from April to June came
from health-care firms and lobbyists, including Schering-Plough, Medtronic and New York Life.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR200907
2003363.html?hpid=topnews
outrageous!
Washington, DC — October 16, 2009
“Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that the U.S. Secret Service (under the auspices of the Department of Homeland Security) has denied Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for access to Obama White House visitor logs from January 20, 2009 to present.
In refusing to abide by FOIA law, the Secret Service advanced the erroneous claim that the records belong to the Obama White House, not the agency, and are therefore may be kept secret under the Presidential Records Act. A federal district court has ruled twice that all visitor records belong to the Secret Service and therefore should be available under the Freedom of Information Act.”
Under pressure of lawsuits, the Obama White House finally released a partial list:
The first names posted to the White House Web site included health industry executives who met with the Obama administration to discuss his plan to overhaul health care.
The visitors, whose names were released in July, included Jeffrey Kindler, chairman and chief executive officer of New York-based Pfizer Inc., the world’s biggest drugmaker; New Brunswick, New Jersey-based Johnson & Johnson’s chairman and CEO William Weldon; and Stephen Hemsley, CEO and president of Minnetonka, Minnesota-based UnitedHealth Group Inc., the largest U.S. insurer by sales.
Other visitors included former Representative Billy Tauzin, now president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America; Rich Umbdenstock, president of the American Hospital Association; and Karen Ignagni, president and CEO of America’s Health Insurance Plans.
Outrageous!
“The court ruled that the insurance was not commerce and could not be subjudgated under the ‘Interstate Commerce Clause.’”
So I guess democrats will have to use the “general welfare” clause in the US Constitution to force everyone to buy healthcare?
No nation who ever went for single payer/universal health care ever got it right the first time, the changes, arguments and mis-steps are part of the layering composition of any complicated and emotional issue. The process to success is entirey incremental and I think honest discussion is a form of abraision that removes the layers and eventualy a functional concensus will emerge. Screaming, misrepesention of intent at every “what if” during the emergence ony hinders honest input and impedes progress. But having said that no country who went with singe payer/unversal care has ever gone back to private, unregulated options for coverage.
Prediction: Another Stimulus Package
In order to bribe the democrats Blue Dog coalition, conservative democrats, democrats in the health industries pockets, and two senators from Maine, Obama and Congress will put together a package of earmarks, and special medicare payments by state.
Harry Reid already has special provisions written into the bill for Nevada.
Democrats need cover to hide the rest of the bribes.
“DIJON, FRANCE — The Elithis Tower, its builder says, is an office building like no other, an oval-shaped showcase for how to help save the planet on a reasonable budget.
According to Thierry Bièvre, the 10-story tower in the eastern city of Dijon has the potential to become the world’s first commercially priced office building that produces more energy than it consumes.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/24/AR2009102402142.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Ah, the Dijon International Gastronomy Fair in Dijon, France – great food and drink.
Go hungry as you will be subjected to so many foods, you’ll wonder where to start and when to quit. :)
Insurance sure seems like “commerce” when they charge me for premiums.
” A federal district court has ruled twice that all visitor records belong to the Secret Service and therefore should be available under the Freedom of Information Act.”
You all did catch that, right?
Twice under Bush
Twice under Obama
Obama policy = Bush Policy
MH posted yesterday,
But in this particular forum you tend to hang out with the losers.
Mh,
Just my opinion but from what I observe anyone who doesn’t agree with you is in your book a loser.
Clarification:
Twice sued
“Obama policy = Bush Policy”
______________________
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Baaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaa!
Sometimes it is truly better that government do NOTHING than acting and making a situation worse:
22Oct09
PRINCETON, NJ — Compared with last month, Americans have become more likely to say the costs their family pays for healthcare will get worse if a healthcare bill passes. Forty-nine percent of Americans say this, up from 42% in September. Meanwhile, the percentage who expect their costs to improve is unchanged. Gallup
SharePrintE-mailOctober 22, 2009
In U.S., Half See Own Costs Worsening Under Healthcare BillMore expect costs, quality, and coverage to get worse than did so in Septemberby Jeffrey M. JonesPRINCETON, NJ — Compared with last month, Americans have become more likely to say the costs their family pays for healthcare will get worse if a healthcare bill passes. Forty-nine percent of Americans say this, up from 42% in September. Meanwhile, the percentage who expect their costs to improve is unchanged.
In addition to costs, a greater percentage of Americans now compared with last month also expect their healthcare situation to get worse in terms of the quality of care they receive (from 33% in September to 39%), their healthcare coverage (from 33% to 37%), and the insurance company requirements they have to meet to get certain treatments covered (from 38% to 46%). Gallup
New study reveals people suffering from depression more likely to spend hours blogging on the internet:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123821/One-Six-Americans-Report-History-Depression.aspx
October 23, 2009
“For the first time in recent years, voters trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 key electoral issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports. The GOP holds double-digit advantages on five of them.
Republicans have nearly doubled their lead over Democrats on economic issues to 49% to 35%, after leading by eight points in September.
The GOP also holds a 54% to 31% advantage on national security issues and a 50% to 31% lead on the handling of the war in Iraq. ” Rasmussen
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues
American Way says, “I don’t trust any of them as far as I can throw them.”
“Thirty-eight percent (38%) of voters say cutting the federal budget deficit in half in the next four years should be the Obama administration’s top priority, while 23% say health care reform is most important”
Rasmussen
So Congress should skip healthcare and concentrate on reducing the deficit? Or does this mean Obama should do the opposite and pass another Stimulus Package?
“Freebird1971″ –
You’re entitled to your opinion.
But you might notice today’s WE Blog posts from our… ahem… regular CON posters.
Sundays are special on WE Blog because without talk radio and the (cluster) Fux Noise Channel feeding them talking points, they’re at a loss.
You and I disagree on a lot of issues but we’re rarely disagreeable with one another.
The dyed-in-the-wool CONs of WE Blog resort to name-calling and attacks when I post to this forum. And when I confront them with their obvious contradictions of “priniple,” they’ve got nothing. Over and over again, they’ve got nothing.
(The comment about “losers” is straight out of the self-help fellowships we tangentially share, btw.)
Perhaps you need a meeting.
;-)
Looks like the blog is starting it’s daily degression to discussing other posters instead of events.
Starting to get depressed, so gotta go get some Vitamin D. Not many days left for those outdoor honeydo’s.
MH,
I am entitled to my opinion,no disrespect intended.
“Freebird1971″ –
As I recall, I posted…
“…at 9:52 am | Permalink
“Freebird1971? –
You’re entitled to your opinion….”
So what’s your gripe?
No gripe, just an observation. BTW seems like everytime I mention something that seems to be at odds with you you suggest I go to a meeting. Why is that? What would be your reaction if I suggested the same?
MH,
Above all else we do agree that you have to keep your tencil on the toad at all times.
American Way says, “I don’t trust any of them as far as I can throw them.”
_______________________
Excellent! So what are we going to do about it?
“Freebird1971″ –
The “you need a meeting” thing is kind of an inside joke, too.
If you haven’t picked up on that yet, maybe you need….
… ah, nevermind.
The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 73% of GOP voters think Republicans in Congress have lost touch with GOP voters from throughout the nation.
Impressive!
“Just 15% of Republicans who plan to vote in 2012 state primaries say the party’s representatives in Congress have done a good job of representing Republican values.”
If ANY incumbent on “either side” is voted in in the next two cycles, we deserve everything that is coming. America has a chance to stop it, but it won’t. It enjoys it when it is gamed and lied to. It enjoys having its livelihood and means to make a living stripped from it, when we’re left with nothing more than a service based economy, wiping azzes and selling burgers. It enjoys it when it’s told sweet nothings.
What was that definition for insanity???
When you repeat the same thing over and over again expecting new results…that was it right?
So voting for the same folks who don’t do a damned thing for anyone but themselves is the best thing Americans can do for themselves?
This country is dead.
“This country is dead.”
We said we needed change we can believe in!
Bon Jovi to play Wichita white elephant arena!
That would have got me there!
In 1985.
You sound fairly happy about it, DavidB.
You sound fairly happy about it, DavidB.
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 25, 2009 at 10:06 am | Permalink
MH,
Above all else we do agree that you have to keep your tencil on the toad at all times.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Not to butt in on your conversation with MH, but keeping the tencil on the toad has pretty much become my guiding principle in life. I’m even considering having bumper stickers and t-shirts made.
#
BlueJay
Posted October 25, 2009 at 11:28 am | Permalink
Bon Jovi to play Wichita white elephant arena!
That would have got me there!
In 1985.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Seriously? What, they couldn’t convince Flock of Seagulls or Culture Club to play the new arena?
I think some Libs are suffering from ‘insult your fellow poster’ syndrome.
Let’s see how long they can go without snark and insult.
That splat sound is your Lib face planting themselves into the wall and wondering why no one is replying to their snark and insult. :D
“That splat sound is your Lib face planting themselves into the wall and wondering why no one is replying to their snark and insult. :D” [rEG]
Speaking of snark/insult…. oh well……..
Daniel,
Don’t knock it! We drove to Salina Friday evening to see Bob Dylan at the Bicentennial Center. Dylan was good as ever, the ticket prices were reasonable and they have excellent parking there. No wonder they couldn’t get him to Wichita!
Wow Jed… Did Dylan mention anything about feeling like a fish out of water?? :-)
Hey, Pleefer… You might enjoy this website:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com
#
Jed
Posted October 25, 2009 at 1:38 pm | Permalink
Daniel,
Don’t knock it! We drove to Salina Friday evening to see Bob Dylan at the Bicentennial Center. Dylan was good as ever, the ticket prices were reasonable and they have excellent parking there. No wonder they couldn’t get him to Wichita!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Salina seems to be on the ball regarding entertainment options. The Stiefel Theatre has a pretty good lineup of artists coming in this fall.
I’ve been thinking about taking my oldest son up there in December to see Bela Fleck and the Flecktones for his birthday.
http://www.stiefeltheatre.org/
Chas,
No, he mentioned feeling just like a rolling stone though. He sang, played guitar, keyboard and harp, and put on an excellent performance.
This quote should cause any of us to ponder a bit:
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
George Bernard Shaw
George Noory is alright.
ahhhhh – the Kansas City Chiefs are just ridiculous.
Chas,
Does Shaw mean that all progress is techological, and that we don’t progress in our own views of the world and our relationship to it?
That is essentially a Victorian notion regarding nature and man’s relationship to it which Shaw, being a child of the Victorian age would certainly have subscribed to, and it still lingers in dark recesses to trouble us as we confront our own nature. Hopefully we’ve learned a thing or two since then, and eventually those implications will sink into our basic core of concepts and we see ourselves as beings within nature.
Jed, yes, that, and also that we make progress when we develope ways to make “machines” do our work for us… I think that might also have been a Victorian concept… Instead of being held captive by nature, we progress when we use nature to Free us… (through technology, etc.)
#
Regular
Posted October 25, 2009 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
ahhhhh – the Kansas City Chiefs are just ridiculous.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ridiculously terrible.
Chas,
I’m referring more to the underlying and essentially Victorian concept of man vs. nature, that nature is ideally something separate from us that we must rise above, rather than accept our rightful place in. Machines and our reliance on them do play some small role in forming this view, but our failure to see ourselves and our machines as inherently natural may be leading us toward our own extinction.
Bill Joy, founder Sun Microsystems has this to say:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html
Friggin Terminator business…Skynet is online.
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2009/07/military-researchers-develop-corpse-eating-robots/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/15/military-eatr-contractor_n_233467.html
=]
?
Jed
Posted October 25, 2009 at 3:36 pm | Permalink
Chas,
I’m referring more to the underlying and essentially Victorian concept of man vs. nature, that nature is ideally something separate from us that we must rise above, rather than accept our rightful place in. Machines and our reliance on them do play some small role in forming this view, but our failure to see ourselves and our machines as inherently natural may be leading us toward our own extinction.
=============================================
OK, I can see that…
Oh good grief Pleefer! The “flesh eating robots” story was debunked months ago. It was only ON THE COVER of the Wichita Eagle. The creator of the bots himself was mortified to learn of this “corpse eating” robots he was supposedly creating.
Like I tried to tell you. When you see conspiracies in everything, anything can be a conspiracy.
Even if it isn’t.
Blue Jay, Since the short notice thing bothers you how bout next Sat at 10 at Don’s I’ll buy breakfast
The Natural State has historically been associated with what our conservative members of this blog tend to associate. That is that state of being where the self is wholey dependent on itself. There being no government, no tribe, no constraints.
There was no association with morals, or the raising above of instinct. It was the fulfillment of self interest only.
That may seem like a distinction without a difference but your reference to the Natural State having something to do with the Victorian era is completely merit.
You are confusing Victorian modesty with classical distinctions of governance.
My Bad:
is completely merit.
Should read is completely without merit.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
George Bernard Shaw
This concept is as old as history itself. Shaw is paraphrasing something like a dozen philosophers and historians. To take this as novel is to expose ones self to their ultimate ignorance of history and original thought.
And the Leviathan was supped on with relish, feast for the lower gods.
It was a joke bleucheese.
Did you not see my little =] ?
The topic reminded me of the article.
Sah-ree.
Slow traffic for slow participants…