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122 Comments
Afghanistan is not about Afghanistan.
Afghanistan is about the already existent Muslim nukes. Next door. In Pakistan.
Shrub’s half-assed approach to al Qaeda was like the drunk who loses his wallet down the street but looks for it under the street lamp “because the light is better here.” The Afghan Taliban is pretty much evil but it’s domestic evil; abusing women and imposing fundamentalist religious dogma. But it is only a threat outside Afghan borders because “the enemy of my friend is my enemy.” And the legitimate threat of al Qaeda to the West is not necessarily the same as it was on September 10, 2001.
There’s nothing we can do to establish a western-style democracy. Pakistan, next door, is sitting on H-Bombs with a certain amount of crazies looking to lob mushroom clouds on Iran, India, any infidel within range.
President Obama’s “dithering” is a thoughtful approach to reassessing Shrub/Cheney’s blurred version of what we’re doing in Afghanistan. Just what is “winning” in Afghanistan? What’s the goal? What (like the dog who catches the car he’s chasing) would we get if we “won?”
Can Pakistan protect itself from religious fundamentalists which have invested its hinterlands? Does Pakistan need a Western show of force to protect itself from Islamist radicals? Since Iran is next door and a different breed of Islam than Pakistani and/or Arab Islam… might they find a policy in common with the West to neutralize al Qaeda? Might that be something to work on to help Iran re-join the community of nations?
This isn’t “dithering.” This administration displays all evidence it’s reassessing the goals, the measures-of-victory, the consequences, and the purpose of putting American troops in peril.
Far better than the alternative we faced a year ago, with John S (for Senile) McCain the Third channeling his inner Mike Love singing,
“BOMB! BOMB! BOMB!
BOMB! BOMB IRAN!!”
Far too often CONs reduce complex issues into bumper-sticker slogans.
“President Obama’s “dithering” is a thoughtful approach to reassessing Shrub/Cheney’s blurred version of what we’re doing in Afghanistan. Just what is “winning” in Afghanistan? What’s the goal? What (like the dog who catches the car he’s chasing) would we get if we “won?””
President Obma, March 2009
“President Barack Obama on Friday ordered 4,000 more military troops into Afghanistan, vowing to “disrupt, dismantle and defeat” the terrorist al-Qaida network in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan.
In a war that still has no end in sight, Obama said the fresh infusion of U.S. forces is designed to bolster the Afghan army and turn up the heat on terrorists that he said are plotting new attacks against Americans. The plan takes aim at terrorist havens in Pakistan and challenges the government there and in Afghanistan to show more results.
Obama called the situation in the region “increasingly perilous” more than seven years after the Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan.”
““If the Afghanistan government falls to the Taliban or allows al-Qaida to go unchallenged,” Obama said, “that country will again be a base for terrorists.”
He announced the troop deployment, as well as plans to send hundreds of additional civilians to Afghanistan, with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and top intelligence and national security figures at his side. The announcement followed a policy review Obama launched”
The policy review has been done. Either get it and get it done, or get the hell out. His dithering is his unwillingmness to take a stand on policy he has already stated, because of Domestic Democratic party resisitance.
President Obma March 27, 2009
“This marks the conclusion of a careful policy review that I ordered as soon as I took office. My Administration has heard from our military commanders and diplomats. We have consulted with the Afghan and Pakistani governments; with our partners and NATO allies; and with other donors and international organizations. And we have also worked closely with members of Congress here at home. Now, I’d like to speak clearly and candidly to the American people.”
“But for six years, Afghanistan has been denied the resources that it demands because of the war in Iraq. Now, we must make a commitment that can accomplish our goals.”
“Get it done.” So easily said.
If it can;t be done, then get the hell out.
My whole point was, he did the “comprehensive” study already. Did it have a conclusion? He stated so. WHAT THE HELL IS HE WAITING ON?
He is costing American lives, while he “dithers” and tries to get in touch with the feelings of the American Left within the Democratic Party.
Either get it, or get out.
Yeah, “littlejohn” –
And…?
Just what are those goals. (Which President Obama inherited.)
Just what will we “win?” (Which pretty much justifies questioning those goals.)
What are the consequences of “winning?” (Which means this new President thinks about consequences; something Shrub didn’t “dither” with.)
What are the consequences of “cut-and-run?” (Which we all know CONs will rant about, given the chance.)
Is there another strategy — apart from what this administration inherited from George WMD Bush — that might actually make a difference for America and the rest of the world? (Yeah, yeah, yeah… I’m “blaming Shrub again.” Except, of course, Dumbya/Cheney left a pile of dung in the Oval Office.)
You can cut-and-post out-of-context quotes all you want.
But you, as with most WE Blog CONs, seem incapable of looking at the real issues, consequences, costs, and goals.
After about age three, most people begin to observe the world outside their personal comforts. WE Blog CONs don’t seem to be able to reach that perspective.
“MonkeyHawk”
It was the President of the United States that said those things, not I. Yeah, they were cut and paste, from the President of the United States. HE is the one who said he had done a comprehensive study and had a plan. Forgoet Bush. BLame him all you want,I don;t really give a schitt. I was against the invasion of Iraq fom teh beginning. It doesn;t frickin matter what President Obama inherited, it matters what he is going to do about it. He anounced he had a plan. He announced during campaign that he was going to send in more trops, and on and on and on. He wanted the damn job, now he has. He has to actually DO SOMETHING! It will not go away.
Either get in, or get out. Half assed gets people killed, over nothing. It’s the Viet Nam syndrome all over again.
DO IT, or go home. I don;t have an answer. I don’t have to. I didn;t want the job, he did. It’s his responsibility. DO IT < OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!
By the way, “Monkeyhawk” How were the quotes taken out of context?
Monkeyhawk your reason for the war in Afghanistan makes no sense.
If the reason for the war is Pakistan – then let’s invade Pakistan.
Your reason is a made up one which is going through the tape recording machines as background info, to help support the upfront reasons the Obama Administration will make up for continuing the war.
But by winning Afghanistan will not avoid or prevent Pakistan from doing whatever Pakistan and it’s people want.
You sound like LBJ invading Cambodia and Laos.
“““If the Afghanistan government falls to the Taliban or allows al-Qaida to go unchallenged”
Sounds like the domino theory all over again.
“But you, as with most WE Blog CONs, seem incapable of looking at the real issues, consequences, costs, and goals”
NO, I want the President to get off his ass, and make a decision.
By the way, how many times has President Obama visited Walter Reed to meet with those seriously wounded under his command?
“But you, as with most WE Blog CONs, seem incapable of looking at the real issues, consequences, costs, and goals.”
Monkeyhawk, I think I am looking at those issues in formulating my opinion.
“After about age three, most people begin to observe the world outside their personal comforts. WE Blog CONs don’t seem to be able to reach that perspective.”
And your above statement could support Bush’s War in Iraq. I believe your message is one of domestic calling. But it’s not appropriate in this world situation.
“(Which we all know CONs will rant about, given the chance.)”
Monkeyhawk, I agree! But fuq them! Do what’s right because it’s the right thing to do. Not because of what others think.
For what it’s worth, I posted on the thread the WEBLOG dedicated to the Afghanistan War question today.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/10/pro-con-should-u-s-pull-out-of-afghanistan/#comment-684842
mh…before you assail “most WE blog cons” being incapable of looking at real issues, I would like to remind you of the “maturity” demonstrated by one of your more vocal libs.
(reminds me of the phrase, “people who live in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones”)
BlueJay
Posted October 21, 2009 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Repeal it or no, we shoot the fireworks we want to. I don’t like that law so I ignore it.
“Repeal it or no, we shoot the fireworks we want to. I don’t like that law so I ignore it.”
That IS the current situation is it not?
Raptor, as much as I appreciate ALL my fans, your fixation on me is becoming….inappropriate.
don’t flatter yourself, you childish clown. watching your comments is seme entertaining, like watching the tv show, ‘america’s dumbest criminals’.
typo..
seme = semi
“don’t flatter yourself”
Heh, I’ll let you do that.
” Rep. Bart Stupak (D.-Mich.) told CNSNews.com yesterday that he has organized a group of “about 40 likeminded Democrats” who will vote to kill the health-care bill if House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) does not allow a floor vote on his amendment to prohibit federal funds from going to insurance plans that cover abortion..”
Stupid republicans will fall for this tactic. Republicans will bargain away libs prohibiting abortions and accept a government (public) plan in a compromise. Stupid trick for stupid republicans. Once again they let democrats make “abortion” the focus of the “stupid republican” clowns.
ObamaCare now at $1,000,000,000,000 from the taxpayers. Dems don’t care it’s for our good. BS
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091023/D9BH41EO0.html
Robotic drones are fighting Al-Qaida in Pakistan without the political implications of putting combat troops on the ground. Pakistanis want foreign troops in their country as much as we would. There are no doubt secret teams in the country, too.
We know the consequences of going to war without a well thought out plan.
Well, not on this watch!
“littlejohn” contributes –
“It doesn;t frickin matter what President Obama inherited….”
Not if, y’know, you eliminate reality from the situation.
No CON wants to address the issues of reality at hand.
What is the Goal?
What constitutes “victory?”
What will we have “won?”
At what cost?
For what benefit to America and/or civilization. (Not necessarily inclusive.)
Those are questions no CON — from Shrub/Cheney on down to the gutters of WE Blog CONs — ever addressed.
CONs would like to think of this presidency as a Tabula Rasa moment. That nothing which ever happened before matters because it’s all too dreadful for CONs to own up to.
Sorry, CONs.
But demented Jim DeMint tipped your hand. The Repubic Party is interested in only one thing: destroying Barack Obama.
If the President says something nice about fluffy kittens the (cluster) Fux Noise Channel will promote rallies to crush kitty skulls under their jack boots. You know that. Everyone knows that. You can’t deny that. It’s obvious every day.
Yesterday, “okobserver” ranted about an alleged Obama college paper which “proved” he was a communist.
Even halfway through Friday’s broadcast Rush Limbaugh was backing away what’s been proven to be a hoax.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/fake-obama-thesis-story-g_n_332255.html
(don’t go off on the Huffington Post link prematurely, CONs; the link has plenty of links to original documents)
CONs are desperately swirling down a political toilet they’ve created and flushed.
That means some WE Blog CON will now call me a name.
Monkeyhawk, blaming Bush is getting real old.
You libs need to face facts. You won. Obama and democrats are in control.
Look to the future. What’s the plan Stan?
Libs continuing to blame Bush and his VP reminds me of a football game.
The players are in the huddle waiting for the quarterback to give them the next play.
Meanwhile, the coach is on the sideline talking to the owner in the booth about Vince Lombardi.
“American_Way” –
Are you alleging there are no consequences of the Shrub presidency?
You might want to work on that argument since that’s about all you’ve got.
Since George WMD Bush was so incompetent, so politically flaccid, had no idea what he was doing from January 20, 2001 through January 20, 2009… it can’t matter!
Run with that argument.
Tell us what the Repubic Party and most CONs slathered about for the first eight years of this century with (the Big) Dick Cheney calling the shots. Tell us how it doesn’t matter anymore.
Tell us how it doesn’t matter anymore
—————————————–
MH, it does in fact matter. The question is what is your boy going to do to correct the situation?
I see it’s still predictable around here. Monkey tries to analyze something, sputters, realizes it, and then defaults to throwing insults at conservatives. And somehow, someway, he fools himself into thinking that this makes him superior. Which he will brag about later.
Incidentally littlejohn, I agree totally with your thoughts.
Decide.
On this date, October 24th
1785 – A four day rain swelled the Merrimack River in New Hampshire and Massachusetts to the greatest height of record causing extensive damage to bridges and mills. (David Ludlum)
1836 The match is patented
1861 1st transcontinental telegram sent ending the Pony Express
1929 “Black Thursday,” beginning of stock market crash
1951 – Sacramento, CA, reported a barometric pressure of 29.42 inches, to establish a record for October. (The Weather Channel)
A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain.
-Mark Twain
——————
Odd Facts
The first product Motorola started to develop was a record player for automobiles. At that time, the most known player on the market was Victrola, so the called themselves Motorola.
The Baby Ruth candy bar was actually named after Grover Cleveland’s baby daughter, Ruth.
——————
Odd Sayings
To be caught Red Handed
Meaning – To be caught in the act.
Origin: One of the four kinds of offenses in the king’s forest, by which the offender is supposed to have killed a deer. In Scotland, in such like crimes they say, “Taken in the fact, or with red hand”. The red of course being the blood from the slaughtered animal
——————
Word of the Day
Antartian
An Antartian is “someone who lives in ignorance when knowledge is available. He persists in error without correction, and represents us all when we make a really big mistake. The person who has always been used as the stereotype for stupidity.”
——————
Humor for the day
Any argument carried far enough will end up in semantics.
A real person has two reasons for doing anything…a good reason and the real reason.
Perhaps your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.
Blaming someonelse for a mess is easy,the hard part is taking action to get the mess cleaned up. When is obama going to start?
“what he was doing from January 20, 2001 through January 20, 2009…”
Monkeyhawk confirms my post.
Anyone else here a broken record skipping here?
hear not here.
“Half assed gets people killed, over nothing”
As I’ve said before either balls to the walls or get out of Dodge.
As we post, our soldiers and Marines are taking fire.
Obama needs to do SOMETHING.
I’m advocting getting out of Dodge. He is too much the softy to go all in.
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
Monkeyhawk, blaming Bush is getting real old.
________________________________
Yeah, kind of like when cons blamed Clinton for everything. For years.
Yeah, and the libs said it wasn;t right. Buck up to your own advice there.
President Obama is supposed to be so much better, then why would he say the same things?
And Bush blamed Clinton for what, exactly?
Community Organizer and CIA terror specialist hired by the O’BAMA administration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-wqmnJrOFM
“balls to the walls”: now there is a comprehensive political and military strategic policy enunciation!
I am not sure what it means, though. Send the entire US military in? Kill every man, woman, child and goat?
Obama is crafting a policy and we’ll be happy to leave the meaningless jingoism to you. But I think you have said you just want to cut and run….
“And Bush blamed Clinton for what, exactly?”
I’d like to hear the answer to that one. Or links.
As I recall most presidents Bush included, try not to play the blame game on their predecessors. Maybe because they know it will come back to haunt them? Or maybe because they know as leaders – it does nothing but divide the nation. Talking about the past has rarely resulted in excutive action in the present.
“I am not sure what it means, though. Send the entire US military in? Kill every man, woman, child and goat? ”
If you don’t know what it means or implies – why are you so critical of me and my statement?
In truth, the only thing CONs had against Bill Clinton’s eight years of peace and prosperity was a bl*w j*b.
But they ran with that.
For eight years of Shrub’s Reign of Error.
#
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 10:20 am | Permalink
“Half assed gets people killed, over nothing”
As I’ve said before either balls to the walls or get out of Dodge.
As we post, our soldiers and Marines are taking fire.
Obama needs to do SOMETHING.
I’m advocting getting out of Dodge. He is too much the softy to go all in.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Our soldiers and Marines have been taking fire in Afghanistan for over 7 years, now.
In my book, you would have a lot more credibility on this issue if you could link me to a similar post you have made but with ‘Bush’ substituted for ‘Obama’ and made prior to January 20, 2009.
If you can’t do this, I’m gonna have to assume that you really didn’t give a flying f*ck about this issue while President Bush was in office and only care about it now because it serves as a useful hammer with which to pound on President Obama. Same goes for JimJohnson.
Prove me wrong.
“CONs had against Bill Clinton’s ”
I believe the issues was “Bush”. Not CONs (whom you seem to see everywhere and they are the answer for anything posted).
“Bush blame Clinton for”
and continuing…..
I don’t suppose anyone has noticed the heighten military aggressiveness of the Pakistanis going after Taliban since President Obama has been in office.
“Filed at 11:04 a.m. ET
ISLAMABAD (AP) — Soldiers captured the strategically located hometown of Pakistan’s Taliban chief Saturday after fierce fighting, officials said, the army’s first major prize as it pushes deeper into a militant stronghold along the Afghan border.”
MH,
Blaming someonelse for a mess is easy,the hard part is taking action to get the mess cleaned up. When is obama going to start?
Daniel,
If you are too lazy to bone dig, don’t ask me to do it for you. My position on the war have been stated.
My reasoning for immediate withdrawal have been clearly stated before. You are confusing things again. (sorry but you are)
I do not believe OBAMA and all the kings horses and all the kings men – have the heart and fortitude to fight a long costly war in Afghanistan. Neither does 2/3 of the party in power, 1/3 of Republicans, and 2/3 of the critically needed independents. War support will only continue to erode. It won’t magically swing up for either party. Americans, “WE WANT IT NOW” mentality is not conducive to a long bloody and expensive war to win the hearts and souls.
For THAT reason – bring our boys home.
My position has nothing to do with George Bush and what he would do….
Freebird1971,
What makes you think President Obama hasn’t started?
A long term solution to the problem in Afghanistan is ultimately going to have to be carried out by those in Afghanistan and Afghanistan’s neighbors unless we want to have to continue to occupy Afghanistan indefinitely. Until recently, the tribal areas of western Pakistan have served as a safe haven for Taliban and al-Quaeda fighters escaping U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan. See DavidB’s link for evidence that the Pakistanis are starting to take responsibility for and are cleaning up that part of their territory. That didn’t happen during the Bush administration.
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:05 am | Permalink
Daniel,
If you are too lazy to bone dig, don’t ask me to do it for you. My position on the war have been stated.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Show me, prove me wrong. It should be easy for you to do.
Daniel
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:11 am | Permalink
Freebird1971,
What makes you think President Obama hasn’t started?
A long term solution to the problem in Afghanistan is ultimately going to have to be carried out by those in Afghanistan and Afghanistan’s neighbors unless we want to have to continue to occupy Afghanistan indefinitely
——————————————–
Then the solution is easy bring our troops home ASAP.
When a politician determines how a war is fought the people that get the dirty end of the stick are the troops.
#
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink
My position has nothing to do with George Bush and what he would do….
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
But you were just as vocal in your criticism of President Bush and his half-assed effort in Afghanistan which put our troops in peril as you are now of President Obama, right?
CONS CONS CONS CONS BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH. Seems it’s the only answer for some. Well, good luck with that.
There is a Democratic WHite HOuse, and SENATE, and HOUSE of Representatives. DO SOMETHING!!!
Oh, it’s too hard. BUSH BUSH BUSH CON CON CON
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:15 am | Permalink
Then the solution is easy bring our troops home ASAP.
When a politician determines how a war is fought the people that get the dirty end of the stick are the troops.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I’m thinking it might be a good idea to lay the groundwork and put plans into place to lessen the chances of the situation in Afghanistan reverting back to the state it was prior to our intervention. Especially after all the blood and treasure that has be expended there over the last 8 years.
Daniel
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:12 am | Permalink
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:05 am | Permalink
Daniel,
If you are too lazy to bone dig, don’t ask me to do it for you. My position on the war have been stated.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Show me, prove me wrong. It should be easy for you to do.
————————
Amway has always been for withdrawal.
Assigning tasks of proof on a person’s position of opinion is a weasel way of calling them a liar.
Accept it or not, move on or get out of the way.
I’m thinking it might be a good idea to lay the groundwork and put plans into place to lessen the chances of the situation in Afghanistan reverting back to the state it was prior to our intervention. Especially after all the blood and treasure that has be expended there over the last 8 years
——————————————–
So you are ok with more losses while your boy “lays the groundwork”?
“Freebird1971″ notes –
“…the hard part is taking action to get the mess cleaned up. “
Gee!
Y’think?
Most WE Blog CONs proclaim all of Shrub’s residue should be cleared up by now.
Think maybe eight years of fiasco can be cleaned up by a nine-month presidency?
If so, you’re a fool.
And I really don’t think you’re a fool, “Freebird1971.” I really don’t.
But in this particular forum you tend to hang out with the losers.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”
– Dale Carnegie
Think maybe eight years of fiasco can be cleaned up by a nine-month presidency?
——————————-
No , I don’t but I hoped I would have seen a start by now.
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink
Think maybe eight years of fiasco can be cleaned up by a nine-month presidency?
——————————-
No , I don’t but I hoped I would have seen a start by now.
__________________________
I want it all and I want it right now!
Let’s face it. The previous administration made a he11 of a mess. You want results in a mere nine months? Maybe Cons should learn a little patience.
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:24 am | Permalink
So you are ok with more losses while your boy “lays the groundwork”?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
What’s with this ‘your boy’ $hiat? Barack Obama is my president, your president…our president.
My position has put me at odds with “some” of my conservative buddies from the service, members of some organizations I belong in, friends, and family.
He11, I’m a retired Marine!!! Yet I advocate CUTTING THE DOD!! I’ve said withdraw from all foreign countries.
Stop paying for Europe, Japan, and Korea. Those countries are now rich. He11, we are borrowing from China and Japan (whom the US saved during WWII).
We are still in the Bosnian area of operations.
Why did we have Blackhawk Down? Why wasn’t it a French Down, or Germany Down, or a English Down? AFrica is closer to them – as is the middle east.
Let the rich EU nations take care of their own too.
So, in many ways, I’m at odd with most posters on the blogs on both sides.
#
Regular
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:22 am | Permalink
Accept it or not, move on or get out of the way.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Whatever, blogmonitor.
Daniel
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:35 am | Permalink
#
Freebird1971
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:24 am | Permalink
So you are ok with more losses while your boy “lays the groundwork”?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
What’s with this ‘your boy’ $hiat? Barack Obama is my president, your president…our president.
——————————
He is the president,period. It’s people like you who claim him. I have never had a president just the president. If it offends you ,sorry get over it
National Emergency!!!!
All this Afghanistan talk, and we have a NATIONAL EMERGENCY! right here at home!
Anyone know why?
I suspect Obama needed another crisis to attempt to get his popularity ratings out of the gutter.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114132895
Obama Declares Swine Flu A National Emergency
by The Associated Press
H1N1 has killed more than 1,000 Americans and put more than 20,000 in the hospital in the United States since it emerged earlier this year, the CDC said. But health officials are quick to note that the actual number of cases cannot be measured.
(HUH? Actual cases can’t be determined, but we have a National Emergency! ?)
#
American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:36 am | Permalink
I’ve said withdraw from all foreign countries.
Stop paying for Europe, Japan, and Korea. Those countries are now rich. He11, we are borrowing from China and Japan (whom the US saved during WWII).
We are still in the Bosnian area of operations.
Why did we have Blackhawk Down? Why wasn’t it a French Down, or Germany Down, or a English Down? AFrica is closer to them – as is the middle east.
Let the rich EU nations take care of their own too.
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
We’re pretty much in agreement on this issue.
lindainks55
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”
– Dale Carnegie
==================
Irony is great.
Swine Flu Cases Overestimated?
CBS News Exclusive: Study Of State Results Finds H1N1 Not As Prevalent As Feared
(CBS) If you’ve been diagnosed “probable” or “presumed” 2009 H1N1 or “swine flu” in recent months, you may be surprised to know this: odds are you didn’t have H1N1 flu.
In fact, you probably didn’t have flu at all. That’s according to state-by-state test results obtained in a three-month-long CBS News investigation.
The ramifications of this finding are important. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Britain’s National Health Service, once you have H1N1 flu, you’re immune from future outbreaks of the same virus. Those who think they’ve had H1N1 flu — but haven’t — might mistakenly presume they’re immune. As a result, they might skip taking a vaccine that could help them, and expose themselves to others with H1N1 flu under the mistaken belief they won’t catch it. Parents might not keep sick children home from school, mistakenly believing they’ve already had H1N1 flu.
Why the uncertainty about who has and who hasn’t had H1N1 flu?
CBSNews.com report on H1N1
In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there’s an epidemic?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml
Federal Government tells States to stop testing for H1N1 in July. They have already PRE-DETERMINED there is a National Emergency Epidemnic!
Obama Jabberwocky:
Feds: Stop testing for H1N1 and counting cases cause we already know we have a national emergency epidemic!
Doctors: How do you know there is an epidemic if you don’t count the cases?
Feds: We have too many cases to count, so that’s how we know.
Doctors: Uh, huh.
CBS News Investigation:
Stop Testing for H1N1
CBS News learned that the decision to stop counting H1N1 flu cases was made so hastily that states weren’t given the opportunity to provide input. Instead, on July 24, the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists, CSTE, issued the following notice to state public health officials on behalf of the CDC:
“Attached are the Q&As that will be posted on the CDC website tomorrow explaining why CDC is no longer reporting case counts for novel H1N1. CDC would have liked to have run these by you for input but unfortunately there was not enough time before these needed to be posted (emphasis added).”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml
Daniel before you joined the blog, back during the midterm elections under Bush, I supported local democrats in the election (for instance Nancy Boyda married to a Marine SSgt whom I know, over Jim Ryun whom I personally know and have met with a dozen times over the years).
Republicans blew their majority. The majority I had dreamed about (as a conservative not republican). They approved record pork (earmars), passed record debt, passed the socialist medicare drug benefit (unafforadable and already over the projected cost back then). They failed to approve the appropriation acts ON TIME! That’s their primary duty. And why? Bush and them had the MAJORITY! They should have passed all bills ON TIME. Instead they argued amongst themselves – and tried to please everyone with record spending. Stimulus 1 – was way back in 2002~! I said no! I didn’t need it and I got hit with it at tax time. Then, I applied the same principles AGAINST Boyda when she did everything the same way Ryun had done. And we threw her out too.
I don’t support the Christian Right as a party (only as them having rights). I’ve also stated my position on abortion being a womans call not mine – even though it is murder.
You can continue to try and get me to bone dig all this and more for you – but I won’t waste my time.
CBS News Investigation
Test Results Obtained – Vast Majority Negative for H1N1
When CDC did not provide us with the material, we filed a Freedom of Information request with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). More than two months later, the request has not been fulfilled. We also asked CDC for state-by-state test results prior to halting of testing and tracking, but CDC was again, initially, unresponsive.
While we waited for CDC to provide the data, which it eventually did, we asked all 50 states for their statistics on state lab-confirmed H1N1 prior to the halt of individual testing and counting in July. The results reveal a pattern that surprised a number of health care professionals we consulted. The vast majority of cases were negative for H1N1 as well as seasonal flu, despite the fact that many states were specifically testing patients deemed to be most likely to have H1N1 flu, based on symptoms and risk factors, such as travel to Mexico.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml
American Way maybe you should look at becoming a Libertarian
National Emergency declared by Obama, and No Special Topic on the WE Blog?
Isn’t it such a big deal afterall?
More On H1N1:
H1N1 tests overwhelmingly negative
In Florida, of 8,853 specimens, 83 percent tested negative for other flu while 17 percent were positive for H1n1 flu.
In California, of 13,704 specimens, 86 percent tested negative for flu, 2 percent positive for h1n1 flu and 12 percent positive for other flu.
In Georgia, of 3,117 specimens, 97 percent were negative for h1n1 flu and 2 percent positive for h1n1 flu.
In Alaska, of 722 specimens, 93 percent tested negative for flu, 5 percent positive for seasonal flu and 1 percent positive for h1n1 flu.
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/cbs_reveals_that_swine_flu_cases_seriously_overestimated_2410200.html
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American_Way
Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink
You can continue to try and get me to bone dig all this and more for you – but I won’t waste my time.
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That’s fine. And I’m not calling you a liar as Regular tried to intimate. I would just genuinely have liked to have seen a post where you were as critical of President Bush’s Afghanistan policy as you are of President Obama’s. It would have given your criticism of the current administration a lot more credence in my book.
More on H1N1
Where is the CDC Getting Their Data?
Given CBS News’ findings that most cases of flu-like illnesses are neither H1N1 nor the flu, it begs the question: Why is the CDC reporting that most flu in the United States is in fact H1N1?
Is the CDC Purposely Misinforming the Public to Sell More Flu and H1N1 Vaccines?
Conflicts of interest are rampant in the vaccination infrastructure. The same people who are regulating and promoting vaccines are also evaluating vaccine safety.
For instance, Dr. Paul Offit of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia earned at least $29 million as part of a $182-million sale by the hospital of its worldwide royalty interest in the Merck Rotateq vaccine. He also formerly sat on the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) to help create the market for rotavirus vaccine
This type of conflict of interest has been going on for some time.
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/cbs_reveals_that_swine_flu_cases_seriously_overestimated_2410200.html
Is the H1N1 Vaccine Really Safe as the CDC Says it Is?
CDC officials are screaming that H1N1 is so different from the seasonal influenza strains that have circulated in the past few decades that a national alarm must be sounded and everyone needs to be so afraid that we all should get vaccinated to prevent a deadly pandemic.
Yet, they say the new H1N1 vaccine is safe based on vaccines for that very same flu strain from which it is so different. They write on their Web site “the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines are expected to have similar safety profiles as seasonal flu vaccines …”
Another contradiction.
While symptoms of H1N1 flu and seasonal flu are virtually identical, the H1N1 vaccine is showing signs of being quite different from the seasonal flu shot.
Although both are produced using antiquated 50-year-old technology that involves injecting the virus into eggs and allowing it to grow, the virus being used to produce the swine flu vaccine has been found to reproduce much more slowly in eggs than the ordinary flu virus.
And according to a separate CBS News report, the U.S. government is now funding newer unprecedented technologies to speed up vaccine production, including one that involves growing the virus inside animal cells and another that involves flu proteins grown inside insect cells.
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/cbs_reveals_that_swine_flu_cases_seriously_overestimated_2410200.html
There is NO Incentive for the CDC or Vaccine Manufacturers to Care About Safety
You may think that the CDC and the vaccine manufacturers must be concerned about safety, as if they released a dangerous vaccine and promoted it to the American public, imagine the lawsuits they would face.
This is actually no longer reality as the U.S. government has granted vaccine makers total legal immunity from any lawsuits that result from the new swine flu vaccine.
In fact, drug manufacturers got a major boost in protection and were granted unprecedented powers to experiment on the population with the passing of the 2006 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (the PREP Act).
This law allows the DHHS Secretary to invoke almost complete immunity from liability for manufacturers of vaccines and drugs used to combat a declared public health emergency, which the “swine flu pandemic” qualifies as.
(Obama just declared a National Emergency, so drug companies have no liability for the H1N1 vaccine. Think about that for a minute, especially if you oppose limits on doctor liability!)
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/cbs_reveals_that_swine_flu_cases_seriously_overestimated_2410200.html
The Pakistan MI and BI (intelligence agencies) supported the Taliban in Afghanistan way before we cared. They also, I believe supported Al Queda as an outflow of the mujadaheen fighting the old USSR.
I believe the 911 operation involved Al Queda on both sides the border with Afghan/Pakistan, and surely the Pakistan intelligence agencies KNEW they were planning something BIG and AGAINST the USA.
At the time, in 2001 and 2002, I believe we should have invaded Pakistan. Instead Bush, afraid of starting a nuke war, BOUGHT Pakistan assistance. We paid off the bad guys partially responsible and fully supportive of the Al Queda.
I don’t think it was accident that Osama “escaped” into Pakistan and surely lived there in peace – and all his buddies including Omar of the Taliban are hidden in homes throughout that country.
It is crazy to me that now, after giving them billions, some are calling Pakistan still an Ally (yes like Bush did) and further: We want to defend them against the taliban because they have nukes!!
That’s nuts!!
But if fully justifies WHY Iran wants nukes. I would do the same if I was Iran.
Anyone had any experience with medicare advantage plans? My father-in-law insurance is dropping his plan and he’s looking for one that doesn’t have any copays, and is Pffs plan where he can go to any dr. he wants. I haven’t found any, any suggestions?
Choice of any doctor, and no co-pays…
Sounds like an expensive plan.
If you go to the cdc website, the estimate of yearly deats for any flu is not absolute along with the reasons why.
Agree Phantom, but H1N1 is now the reason Obama has declared a NATIONAL EMERGENCY!
So why declare a National Emergency and why Stop Counting when the findings so far indicate NEGATIVE for H1N1 83% to 98% of the time?
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JimJohnson
Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
So why declare a National Emergency and why Stop Counting when the findings so far indicate NEGATIVE for H1N1 83% to 98% of the time?
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They’re coming to get you, JimJohnson.
They’re coming to get you!
1000 deaths so far from confirmed h1n1. If vaccinations will prevent another 1000 that’s good enough for me to declare a national emergency. My dr. said they’re not testing for the strain because so far the symptoms have been very close to seasonal flu, the treatment is no different. When you’re in a higher risk catagory (underlying condition, or more severe flu symptoms) they will prescribe the anti-virals, else you can’t get them.
From what I know about flu pandemics, the first wave will cause fewer deaths, as the virus mutates it’ll become much more severe and deadly in succeeding waves.
As the articles state, this allows a lot of red-tape to be eliminated.
You read it: it’s like declaring the emergency when the hurricane is still a day out at sea.
Don’t run to the bunkers. No need to dig up your guns and gold.
I see Jim Johnson has shown up with his hair on fire again.
DavidB
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:26 pm | Permalink
As the articles state, this allows a lot of red-tape to be eliminated.
============================
What does that mean, exactly?
There should never be any Red Tape when it comes to Government Health Care programs. You mean to say Medicare and Medicaid are not good examples for Obamacare to follow?
XXX
Posted October 24, 2009 at 1:47 pm | Permalink
I see Jim Johnson has shown up with his hair on fire again.
====================================
Didn’t you hear? President Obama declared a National Emergency!
Phantom
Posted October 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
Anyone had any experience with medicare advantage plans? My father-in-law insurance is dropping his plan and he’s looking for one that doesn’t have any copays, and is Pffs plan where he can go to any dr. he wants. I haven’t found any, any suggestions?
===============================================
Check into Humana… My wife has it and it works great for her… She has Humana in place of Medicare (it was an Option Plan — :-))
Is this “National Emergency” REAL, or only imbedded in Johnson’s Fantasy World??
Chas, you’re an uninformed goof who acts like it knows something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46iEMNRx69I&feature=player_embedded#
NONE of you have been right about ANYTHING.
You’re douche-in-chief will now be able declare whatever he wants to for “national security”.
Simpletons.
Pleefer… time for your meds….
I ain’t the one who views reality as someone else’s delusion.
Chas
Posted October 24, 2009 at 2:40 pm | Permalink
Is this “National Emergency” REAL, or only imbedded in Johnson’s Fantasy World??
============================
The National Emergency declaration does sound like a fantasy or more accurately, a delusion.
But it’s not my delusion, it’s Obama’s delusion.
Read the news much Chas?
808 New Articles on Obama’s Declared National Emergency:
http://www.google.com
It’s official! Obama declares an H1N1 swine flu national emergency; So what?
Los Angeles Times – ?8 minutes ago?
President Obama declared an H1N1 swine flu national emergency today. (Full text below.) It even uses that scary word “pandemic. …
Obama Declares Swine Flu a National Emergency New York Times
President Obama declares H1N1 flu a national emergency Washington Post
Obama Declares Swine Flu a National Emergency U.S. News & World Report
Reuters – FOXNews
all 808 news articles
Pleefer your own political isolation SHOULD suggest to you that your beliefs, while no doubt strongly held, are just not shared by a large number of….well….less strident shall we say, people. The fact that you instead see yourself as one of the few “in the know” while the rest of us are somehow less observant? suggests the beginnings of a delusional mind.
A healthy mistrust of authority is a good thing. But consider that people who go about always defensive and afraid impair their own capacity for calm, rational thought.
National Emergency! H1N1 !!!
Go to Condition Orange, repeat, go to Condition Orange!
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/dmacfnai.gif
808 New Articles on Obama’s Declared National Emergency:
http://www.google.com
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your google.com link leads nowhere except well — http://www.google.com
You wanna try again??
Bleucheese, you have nothing to say about anything.
H1N1 national emergency articles:
http://www.google.com/search?q=H1N1+national+emergency&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GPEA_en
You really that stupudd?
Or are facts not worth looking at? And getting directed to them is a bit too uncomfortable…so you just don’t bother?
As Obama insert his wee-wee into his voter bloc’s collective behind. Bush did it to his, they got used to it and started enjoying it, so will you.
Although you know what they say about them (sorta)black boys…good luck and ask for extra lube.
Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy Pleefer.
A healthy mistrust of authority is a good thing
===================================================
Now that is funny as sheat coming from someone sucking off that same authorities tit.
Hand out begging for handouts…….
Sorry BJ, but that line is more fitting coming from someone self-sufficient. Too comical coming from a poor beggar person.
LOL
I don’t know, scooter,
You might have to find another sewer to play in. Everyone here is rich compared to you! And. . .
They seem to be tired of your scheet!
HLP,
How are things with you?
Hey Freebird,
Life’s good. Doing well.
Did I see that you’re getting a grandchild?
Yep any day now,a little girl who is named Braelynn Joy, her brother Aiden(2 1/2 ) is awaiting her arrival. My son is coming up on 1 year with the WFD,I’m still sober so life has been treating me probably better than I deserve.
Congrats and good on ya!
Hlp,
Don’t know if you remember or not but I had aiden with me at Woofstock the last time you were there. Hey I’m usally free in the mornings maybe we can get together for breakfast some time. Have met with WS a couple of times and had an enjoyable time each time we met. We were able to put politics aside and got to know each other.
Bleucheese,
A refresher on what a “national emergency” means these days. Regardless of whether or not it’s an emergency from a nuclear holocaust, a plane hitting buildings piloted by homi-suicidal Islamers or a contrived pig flu bug “pandemic”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential
Pleefer, blow it on your sleeve. It’s a national emergency dontchano.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html
You can’t make this stuff up…
Cwazee…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6169
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/09/AR2007050902719.html
I remember.
Didn’t go to Woofstock this year, went to our nationals in Wisconsin.
Breakfast would have to be on a Thursday sometime.
I can work with tht usually don’t have to be at work until 1
Pleefer is an equal opportunity not making stuff upper.
I’ll be damned! When BJ leaves most of us get along.
Some “pandemic”…*shrugs and yawns*
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesArea
Oh well, this “government” will do whatever it wants to anyway.
RoaCh,
This country needs “both sides” together if We are to get it back from the crooks.
This country is dying and if we don’t quit fighting the worn out and futile “left/right” match, then the Don King’s who are running this fight are going to get away with looting the place and destroying these beloved united states and killing our Bill of Rights.
We don’t have very much longer. I leave the lying (or at least telling half-truths) to the Glenn Beck’s, Limbaugh’s, Olbermann’s and Chris Matthew’s in the media. Their jobs (in which they are paid very well) are to keep us apart.
It’s funny that this clip from the animated Disney flick “Bugs Life” explains it so easily:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWZZSD4irM&feature=related