Most pro-life groups, including Operation Rescue, condemned the murder of Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller and didn’t try to rationalize it in any way. Yet “conservative crusader” Star Parker, speaking Monday as part of the Civic Engagement Lecture Series at Wichita State University, compared accused killer Scott Roeder to Nat Turner, who led an uprising against slavery in 1831. She said that Roeder illustrated the hopelessness among those who oppose abortion. On the contrary, Tiller’s murder illustrates the danger of inciting unstable people with reckless rhetoric.
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67 Comments
Wow.
Shooting a guy in the face in his church is somehow God’s will?
I’ll have to think about that for a while.
I can understand — though I do not agree with — the perspective that proclaims every fetus is a human.
But here I am stuck in reality.
And here in reality, abortion “abolitionists” are nothing more than Advocates of Illegal Abortions.
Been there. Done that. Didn’t work out.
Except to subject desperate women to back-alley butchers and utterly senseless death.
Sorry, CONs. Promoting illegal abortion is not the stuff on which to build a national constituency.
But keep working on that. You’re already so marginalized amongst the mainstream you won’t notice.
Thanks, Mr Brownlee. People using this extremist rhetoric really need to be called on it at every opportunity.
Nate Turner’s rebels killed 55 men, women and children in the rage against their ‘owners’. He is considered to be a hero to many, in a sad kind of way.
Comparing the assassination of Dr. Tiller in his church to slaves fighting their own enslavement is way off the mark.
Nate Turner was tried, hung, flayed and beheaded by the white slave owners for his actions.
Roeder will simply rot the rest of his miserable life out in jail.
Roeder & Turner are/were both murderers.
Each side tries to justify murder.
What’s new.
It appears that Brownlee dug Tiller out of his gravesite to start a thread not worth printing.
Aren’t most murders committed by people who are hopeless in one area or another?
I like alot of what she had to say from reading the piece on her speech.
I don’t feel threatened for my beliefs on the subject.
Conservatives and Christians in particular need to start wrapping their minds and actions around the truth that a simple outlawing of abortion will not stop abortions.
Its kind of like trying to justify killing your child…
Don’t like abortions? Change the law. Sadly, it’s legal in this country. Killing abortionists does absolutely nothing but see two or more peoples lives ruined.
If you are taught to read it that way, the bible justifies all sorts of horrors, mayhem, murder, slavery and infanticide, and too many people want to read it that way to justify their own crimes.
As for anything like a heartfelt apology from the “prolife” side, I haven’t heard one. What I’ve heard are more along the lines of disclaimers, stating that their rhetoric had nothing to do with what poor deluded Roeder did, that of course none of them would consider such a thing. Having spent years listening to them, I call bullsh*t! That rhetoric was designed from the beginning to incite some crazy person to do just exactly what Roeder did! And designed to deny their participation in Dr. Tiller’s murder. I hope beyond all hope that Roeder finds it in himself to fully confess his crimes and name those in the movement who put him up to it now that they have thrown him to the wolves. He was no lone killer, as the “pro-lifers” would have you believe; this was a murder for hire, with the payment to be made in spiritual coin. Too bad he has no “friends” left to bail him out now.
Jed,
You are desperately blowing on cold, wet, ashes trying to start a big fire.
Pitiful.
Phillip doesn’t seem to like freedoms protected by our Constitution. Maybe he should vote to outlaw the expression of what happens during an abortion.
That should do it. No more violence after you start arresting people for their speech.
“She said that Roeder illustrated the hopelessness among those who oppose abortion.”
Unh uh. No.
Those who have accepted the fact that women have a guaranteed right to control their own bodies do not obsess on the issue, block legal places of business or brutally murder a doctor. They get on with their lives and mind their own business.
She’s black, you criticize her, and therefore you must be a racist!
Just printing the liberal song.
Ant,
“Jed, You are desperately blowing on cold, wet, ashes trying to start a big fire.”
Please keep thinking that way. There couldn’t possibly be any legal retribution visited on your little anthill. You’re perfectly safe from Lady Justice down there.
Please keep thinking that way. There couldn’t possibly be any legal retribution visited on your little anthill. You’re perfectly safe from Lady Justice down there.
-Jed
=================================
WTF are you babbling about?
Oh, nothing you need concern yourself with.
Oh, nothing you need concern yourself with.
======================
I figured as much.
Shes also had four abortions herself, so besides being out in kookland shes a hypocrite to boot
I agree that abortion is wrong. It takes the life of what I think is a child. I however agree with Mr Kia that the law will never change anyones view of abortion. It is legal now.
Any change must come in the hearts of men/women. We see that happening today as the latest polls show.
DavidB you are probably right that he won’t be put to death for Dr Tillers murder anymore than the Carr brothers will ever be executed for the horrific murders they committed.
Sometimes justice just isn’t fair but we are a country of laws. Unless there can be a link proven between Roeder and any organization, for the left to keep pushing that bone around is futile.
This is a lone gunman that killed alone. He didn’t have anyone beside him or waiting in the car. To say his friends have dropped him is moronic.
Nat Turner was just as wrong as Roeder was. Parker is right in what she said. I have to respect her and the way she determined not to be on welfare her whole life like so many around her. Non issue to engergize the natives I think.
There is no justifying the mangling, dismembering, poisoning, and beheading of living babies in abortion mills.
Abolition now.
Capn you are quickly becoming as irrelevant as Monkey. Please tell me Reg is wrong and you are not an educator.
Charles Koch is a good man who is very generous with his money. He has done many good things for this community. Why are you so jealous?
Tom,
Anyone who’s had four abortions isn’t into learning from experience, or is some variety of masochist. Birth control is so much easier, less painful and cheaper.
Troyboy,
You were Roeder’s friend weren’t you? What did you promise him?
Jed why are you against abortion? How can you condem this woman for doing what you said yourself your enabled other women to do?
Are you a hypocrite or just judgemental?
Granny,
“He has done many good things for this community.”
Like stealing oil from Native Americans, etc.
Not gonna happen parkay.
tee HEE!
“There is no justifying…”
That’s not your call. And last I checked, there is no requirement that anything be justifiable to parkay.
Granny,
As you yourself know full well, there isn’t anybody who thinks abortion is a great solution to any problem. That doesn’t mean that it should be illegal. It has been, off and on for centuries and has flourished nonetheless, because you good christians made it necessary. I for one, do not want to go back to the bad old days when abortions killed women. I much prefer birth control, which the churches (including yours) have opposed tooth and nail.
You and your church, of course would rather get rid of sex, as well as anything else that might possibly be construed as having a good time, but since you’ve failed miserably, you’d rather use pregnancy to punish girls who have “strayed” from your warped idea of morality, ergo your opposition to any form of birth control besides total abstinence. You people brought about the need for abortion; maybe you ought to either live with it, or (horrors) reform your thinking! Actually help (and I don’t mean a couple cans of formula and half a package of diapers every two weeks) women who for one reason or another, find it impossible to support their families. Do you have any idea how much help you could give if you weren’t spending it all on politicians and preachers who claim to be “pro-life?”
“Conservatives and Christians in particular need to start wrapping their minds and actions around the truth that a simple outlawing of abortion will not stop abortions.” — Mr. Kia
Legal abortions are safe abortions. They save lives.
Before they were legal they were only safe for those women with the means to go to the doctor’s office or hospital and have the procedure (called a different name) performed. For those without the means, they were dangerous and sometimes took the life of both the unborn and the woman.
“For those without the means, they were dangerous and sometimes took the life of both the unborn and the woman.”
I never knew my grandmother (my father’s mother) because she died from an illegal abortion when my Dad was 5. Yeah Dad didn’t get to have a brother or sister. But he was also lost his mother.
Linda,
I once asked Troyboy about the women who died because of illegal abortions before Rv.W. He told me they deserved what they got, and he was glad they died.
“Jed” –
That’s why I call them Advocates of Illegal Abortion.
The back-alley butchers’ best friends.
Charles Koch, who inherited an oil business and is the ninth wealthiest man in the USA, has assembled an army of unthinking extremists manipulated to publicly lobby against policies that may be bad for Koch Industries.
Plus he is one of the driving forces fighting Estate Tax that only affects the extremely wealthy.. like… Charles Koch!
Super-wealthy, extremist in his political and social philosophies… the very idea of this guy influencing the public debate gives me the creeps.
Blue,
Yeah, many did. Didn’t stop women from getting them though. Societal pressures were just too much to bear.
I knew a Chiropractor (one of four) here whose practice was pretty much confined to pre-Roe abortions. He was good at it, and I doubt he lost many patients, but one would be too many. The real problem was that if a woman showed up at an ER with a punctured uterus, she’d be arrested and charged, so many didn’t go and died. The churches though, said she’d got her just desserts.
I for one was overjoyed when Roe came down, the chiropractor went out of business and the practice taken over by real doctors with a real medical infrastructure to back them up, a much better circumstance for women!
“…they deserved what they got, and he was glad they died.”
I find that a statement of someone at least irrational and possessed of an illogical idea, maybe insane. Do you suppose that’s what Roeder would have said too?
Just to clarify, that was precisely my point Linda.
Murder is illegal too. The US leads the world in murder.
The country needs a change of heart. Not more laws.
lindainks55
Posted October 6, 2009 at 4:34 pm | Permalink
“…they deserved what they got, and he was glad they died.”
I find that a statement of someone at least irrational and possessed of an illogical idea, maybe insane. Do you suppose that’s what Roeder would have said too?
————————————————–
I’m sure Roeder would and if given the chance in his trial likely will.
A U.S. Magistrate has ordered Koch Industries to pay $200,000 for destroying computer records that allegedly showed a company-wide scheme to steal oil from Indian nations and federal taxpayers. Koch, the Wichita based petrochemical giant, is alleged to have cheated oil producers and royalty owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars by deliberately falsifying measurements on lease tanks in a whistle blower lawsuit filed by Bill Koch and William Presley. Bill Koch is a former Koch Industries executive and brother of Charles Koch.
******
Stealing from the poor so they get richer? Yes.
Destroying evidence and lying? Check.
Bitter family feud over money? Yup.
Of course they have to be CONservative.
CapnAmerica,
I’m not sure what Koch and the Indians have to do with Roeder, Turner, or Tiller.
ANTI,
It’s all part of the left’s – Great Right Wing Conspiracy meme.
ANTI,
It’s all part of the left’s – Great Right Wing Conspiracy meme.
==========================
Oh yes, I had forgotten about that.
I think my GRWC membership is due…along with the VRWC membership, damn I should write this stuff on my calender.
Linda,
“I find that a statement of someone at least irrational and possessed of an illogical idea, maybe insane.”
Of course. But insanity isn’t necessarily confined to an individual- look at Hitler’s Germany- it can infect whole societies and churches, and seems to have in this case. Many examples throughout history- look at the witch-burnings that occurred several times and took the lives of hundreds of thousands of women. Look at the rampant slaughter of Native Americans in the 19th century and the justifications our society offered. Look at the religious rape and slaughter of the Bosnian women. These are people who have used religion as justication for some of the most horrible crimes imaginable. Do you think that the deaths of women at the hands of untrained abortinists is going to worry them in the least?
Boy Jed, you are lumping anyone associated with any kind of religion together to all be held accountable for whatever you consider wrong with the world and many acts which I consider evil as well.
Making blanket statements isn’t helping your argument.
There is some serious thought in some circles about how believing in a untestable, evidence-free theory of how the universe is ‘run’ may not be the healthiest way for a modern world to think.
“Koch and the Indians have to do with Roeder, Turner, or Tiller.”
Let’s get Glenn Beck to put em up on the chalkboard and do his crazt thing!
Does Koch Industries now come under the terms of the “De-Fund ACORN” amendment?
#
CapnAmerica
Posted October 6, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Permalink
A U.S. Magistrate has ordered Koch Industries to pay $200,000 for destroying computer records that allegedly showed a company-wide scheme to steal oil from Indian nations and federal taxpayers. Koch, the Wichita based petrochemical giant, is alleged to have cheated oil producers and royalty owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars by deliberately falsifying measurements on lease tanks in a whistle blower lawsuit filed by Bill Koch and William Presley. Bill Koch is a former Koch Industries executive and brother of Charles Koch.
******
Stealing from the poor so they get richer? Yes.
Destroying evidence and lying? Check.
Bitter family feud over money? Yup.
Of course they have to be CONservative.
I notice that CapAmerica continues his dubious practice of posting articles as news, though the event happened long ago. In this case, over a decade ago.
Thanks for your irrelevance, Capn.
TULSA, Okla.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–May 4, 1999–
The Precision Company announced today the U.S. Magistrate Samuel Joyner has ordered Koch Industries to pay $200,000 for destroying computer records that allegedly showed a company-wide scheme to steal oil from Indian nations and federal taxpayers.
Koch, the Wichita based petrochemical giant, is alleged to have cheated oil producers and royalty owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars by deliberately falsifying measurements on lease tanks in a whistle blower law suit filed by Bill Koch and William Presley.
“She said that Roeder illustrated the hopelessness among those who oppose abortion.”
And that, of course, justifies murder.
So given that is justified, in some minds, how far will that go?
More or less, the country is evenly divided, pro-choice and pro-life, liberal and conservative.
From her comments, it would seem that Ms. Parker feels that violence is justifiable, if the cause is “just.”
Given the divide of the country, when do the shooting war begin?
Given the divide of the country, when do the shooting war begin?
==========================
Dunno
I’m booked solid ’till next Tuesday, how about you Clark?
“I’m booked solid ’till next Tuesday, how about you Clark?”
Well, I have the weekend planned, but I am free on Monday.
I’m thrilled someone called this nutcase out on her hero worship of Roeder. I suppose someone ought look closely at her organization that she runs, I’m sure she’s pocketing a ton of that money- I can’t find a single thing that the org has contributed to.
Cons continue to be..well…cons.
Well, I have the weekend planned, but I am free on Monday.
=====================
Wednesday of next week?…It must be a 2 day war, cause it’s turkey season ya know, not really fair..me shootin at you, you shootin at me, me shootin at a freaking turkey….you see the problem.
Peace Out.
Know what the hell your aiming at before you touch the steel, dipschitts! Breath a bit, quit being so damned jumpy!
That is a life lesson. Rick-E-Sheah’s are a bicth.
Trust Me.
“I’m thrilled someone called this nutcase out on her hero worship of Roeder.” [Pmama]
Amen, little sister… More nut cases need to be called out as well… And their lies exposed… with hard facts… I know many who can get the facts…. Just getting them spread around will take a good network….
“You and your church, of course would rather get rid of sex, as well as anything else that might possibly be construed as having a good time, but since you’ve failed miserably, you’d rather use pregnancy to punish girls who have “strayed” from your warped idea of morality, ergo your opposition to any form of birth control besides total abstinence. You people brought about the need for abortion; maybe you ought to either live with it, or (horrors) reform your thinking!”
Jed this ranting is as irrational as anything I have ever seen. You need help desperately.
I am sure you with your vast knowledge, knowing the cost of making medical equipment, what it cost for a hospital to deliver care, what a physician should charge for his services, not to mention that back alley abortionist you knew – well man I bet you know a good counselor who can help you with your anger problems.
Good luck with that. It will eat your alive if you don’t control it.
Just remember the words here you have said about a black women when people say negatives about the Obama.
You said people were racist because they should not be critical of the guy.
Deb, Granny,
Here’s something to think about.
While the intent of religion (any religion) is to pave a path to good, the basic concept seems to be so fully open to abuse, misuse and avarice by anyone a bit of charisma and claiming to be some sort of guru that invariably the path ends up heading somewhat lower than good. I have so far found no religion that hasn’t under the wrong circumstances become hazardous to the people it’s supposed to be helping. There is simply too much power invested in it’s institutions, and while power doesn’t necessarily corrupt, it certainly attracts the corruptible.
Any belief when taken to the extreme becomes dangerous, and religion as a concept heads naturally to the extreme. Most people recognize this and keep their own faith under control, but too many religious leaders exercising too much money and power are inciting hatred of whomever they think they safely can, and in the process reaping even more financial and political rewards by preying on the vulnerable. We saw this when gay people, muslims (meaning anyone from the middle-east or who appeared to be), the French and anyone to the left of Ivan the Terrible were systematically demonized.
Some several of my friends over the years were in, or were perceived to have been in groups that some church or another demonized to the point that they were murdered. The most recent was last June. Do you really believe that the purpose of religion is to incite people to murder other people? That has certainly been a main feature in the history of religion.
Now this may be difficult for you to understand, but I’m not against any religion. I’ll gladly support your right to worship whatever gods or goddesses you prefer, as long as you support the rights of me and my friends to do the same. It’s that last part that seems to be sticky. I have no desire to deprive any of you of your religion. But when your religion incites hatred and violence against people I know and love, I reserve the right to respond in kind. Get that?
Its obvious you didn’t hear the question or her long and detailed answer condemning violence and murder. Shame on the Eagle for posing the question to set up Ms Parker who pleaded with the audience to tone down rhetoric. The question and your opinion are another drivebye journalism stunt that is beneath the dignity of a community sickened by the lack of regard for the sanctity of every human life. You do no service to the Tiller family or those on either side of the great moral debate. Again, shame on you for trying to stir up fire to sell your dreadful paper.
Pol,
“You said people were racist because they should not be critical of the guy.”
I said no such thing. You are perfectly free to criticize the president’s policies and politics. It would be nice if you actually got them right once in a while.
What most of us perceive as racist is the relentless and constantly vicious misrepresentation of anything the President says or does by a small group of extreme cons, many of whom also display obviously racist images of the man and have strong family roots in the Klan and White Citizen’s Councils and other racist groups.
I’m sure you wouldn’t want yourself to be identified with these creeps, and will hereafter make certain that your criticisms, comments and jokes about our president will contain no racially offensive material. It would also be polite to check your accuracy before you comment. There are a lot of misrepresentations and flat out lies going around that you wouldn’t want to be seen propagating. Remember that people who pass around racist comments and jokes are generally seen as racists. You wouldn’t want that.
There is absolutely no justifying emulating the words of Randall Terry……….
Self-aborting women “deserved their fate?” Did you REALLY say that, Parkay? If you did, that’s a rather stark disparity from the gentility I’ve heard you can put forth. So who’s the REAL Parkay, anyway? Let’s fess up – just for s–ts and giggles today!
Christ! That’s what Terry belched forth some years ago, and it turned lots of his estrogen-bearing followers right off! And they started speakin’ to authors and all! And it made ol’ R-Terry look like excrement!
Oh, for God’s sake – I’m not supposed to be posting here – I get too gosh-darned upset.
I’m supposed to be relaxing at home (when I’m not breaking speed and efficiency records at work), with my feet up and my senses slaked by The Cure and Sonic Youth and Alan Keyes’ Greatest Hits (just kidding about that one)…..
G–D–mit, Parkay! What a horrible thing to say! Why, I would have self-aborted all those years ago! And if that had been all of the truth, I’d still be justifying my abortion. But don’t spew echoes of Randall – it’s gross!
Gee whiz, nothing like getting the s–t kicked out of you when you’re still recovering from a “very mild” heart attack.
I’m sorry you had to hear it, Linda.
Oops, I messed up – it was Jed who evidently bore the brunt of Parkay’s benevolence – not Linda.
Sorry, Jed. Recovering from this “very mild” heart attack sometimes leaves me a little fuzzy. Sometimes Big Berthola gets her words a little mixed up.
My goodness gracious…..no matter how bad and hateful I’ve ever felt in my life, I’d never tell another female she deserved to frigging croak if she self-aborted. Those European sleeping pills and my dead drunken daddy’s liquor stash beckoned rather seductively in 1975, I must say. Those are sort of things you don’t furgit.
Had to break this post up – AGAIN! I guess the censors, like some anti-abortion activists, don’t rank very high in the sensitivity hit parade. But I remember the first month of 1975 very well. How could I forget? It was as much an indelible part of my teenage experience as cramps and sweating the (very) small stuff, so….
The dope was three years old, but the booze was likely still potent. It may or may not have killed me – who knows. But it would have been a tragedy.
Maybe Parkay is kinda like Padre Pio, who was evidently a lion with the “sinners” and a lamb with those of like mind. But at least Parkay wouldn’t have the icky-sticky stigmata, of course…. And he probably doesn’t cross-dress, which Pio was rumored to have dabbled in during unguarded moments…..
think the FilmFan is kinda like the FilmFan, just acutely uber-sensitive to insensitivity. ‘Cause it’s only been five months since winter descended upon Wichita….
Gotta log off now and return abed and git my beauty sleep. ‘Cause let me assure everyone – even a “very mild” heart attack still knocks you on your tushie. And I’m supposed to avoid “agitation.” And lay off the real butter, too.
Gee, thanks a bunchy-billion, Parkay. You really made my day!
Sorry to hear about your “mild” heart attack, “FilmFan” –
But it was good to read you again on WE Blog.
Ol’ “parkay” has become even more acrid in his posts since Dr. Tiller was murdered. Almost as if “parkay” is doing the “Best Defense is a Strong Offense” strategy.
Advocates of illegal abortion are up to their gills in the conspiracy to shoot doctors and bomb clinics. They’re sweatin’ blood worrying Scott Roeder might turn state’s evidence and sell out the cause; that he might not be their Manchurian Candidate after all.
Filmy,
Didn’t you know? The more guilt you feel, the more hard-earned cash you toss in the plate. Churches found that out centuries ago and turned themselves into the biggest most profitable business in the world.
Deb,
“Making blanket statements isn’t helping your argument.”
Sorry about that, but it’s the only way to keep you people from playing the Who’s-a-real-christian-and-who’s-not shell game you drag out every time one of your own, Roeder f’rinstance, does the unspeakable things you talked him into doing. You really want to avoid responsibility? Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time!
Monk,
“They’re sweatin’ blood worrying Scott Roeder might turn state’s evidence and sell out the cause; that he might not be their Manchurian Candidate after all.”
I’m sure they made him promises about what they’d do when he got caught. He’s beginning to realize he’s been tossed to the wolves by those he thought were his friends. I wouldn’t be the least surprised if he not only names names in court, but takes some publisher’s book deal and smears his accomplices’ spiritual blood all over their Armani suits and churches. “I WAS JESUS’BUTTON MAN” Sounds like it might be a best seller!