“The view of China in the U.S. Congress — that China is going to try to leapfrog us by out-polluting us — is out of date,” columnist Thomas Friedman wrote. “It’s going to try to out-green us. Right now, China is focused on low-cost manufacturing of solar, wind and batteries and building the world’s biggest market for these products.” Friedman warned that in addition to buying toys from China, “you will buy your next electric car, solar panels, batteries and energy-efficiency software from China.”
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Everything comes with a price.
————-
Solar Energy Firms Leave Waste Behind in China
“It’s poison air. Sometimes it gets so bad you can’t sit outside. You have to close all the doors and windows,” says Qiao Shi Peng, 28, shown in front of a dumping site in his village, who worries about his 1-year-old son’s health.
“It’s poison air. Sometimes it gets so bad you can’t sit outside. You have to close all the doors and windows,” says Qiao Shi Peng, 28, shown in front of a dumping site in his village, who worries about his 1-year-old son’s health. (Zhang Quanfeng – Photo By Zhang Quanfeng)
At left, cornfields in China’s Henan Province died after a green energy firm dumped industrial waste inside a nearby village. The liquid waste evaporated and left white powder. Tests of the soil where the dumping occurred showed high concentrations of chlorine and hydrochloric acid, which do not exist naturally.
At left, cornfields in China’s Henan Province died after a green energy firm dumped industrial waste inside a nearby village. The liquid waste evaporated and left white powder. Tests of the soil where the dumping occurred showed high concentrations of chlorine and hydrochloric acid, which do not exist naturally. (Zhang Quanfeng – Photo By Zhang Quanfeng)
(Photos By Zhang Quanfeng)
By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, March 9, 2008
GAOLONG, China — The first time Li Gengxuan saw the dump trucks from the nearby factory pull into his village, he couldn’t believe what happened. Stopping between the cornfields and the primary school playground, the workers dumped buckets of bubbling white liquid onto the ground. Then they turned around and drove right back through the gates of their compound without a word…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html?referrer=emailarticle
And continue to add to our bloated national debt of some 11 to 12 trillion dollars by continuing to borrow from China and Japan.
Why of course! China is investing the dollars we give them for their superior products and the interest on the dollars we borrow from them.
We are third world. China and Russia will be the rich dominate countries in this century.
Yeah they are kicking our butt in commitment to their space program too.
SOME nation has to lead the way to the future. It seem the US days of doing that are behind us.
OK.
I always find it ironic how some faux fiscal conservatives talk about the private and public spheres as seperate entities. Other countries support their industries, and surprise, they often have a competitive advantage.
The threat from China “out greening” us does not them actually “out greening” us. One of the things about China is that it has become a hybrid of the most amoral aspects of corporatism and nationalistic pseudo-communism. Outlander’s article highlights some of the results. China doesn’t care about doing it right, they care about doing it quick, and they will take every short cut they can. The threat China represents on multiple environomental fronts comes from their amoral pragmatism. China will gladly befoul its own nest, and rape the natural resources of the world, to create “green” solar panels.
Here, we have an opportunity to move towards a more green economy and also to actually become the broker to a more green economy for other countries. The fact is, in the developed world in particular, this transition is inevitable. It will become “market driven”, but getting ahead of the transitions take acts of will. For all our faults, we as a country tend to be much more concerned with doing things right in comparision to the Chinese. But, trying to do things right, in addition to the political infighting that comes from competing interests in a free society, slows the pace of change except in periods of dire national crisis. What this means is that we have to start NOW.
REAL fiscal conservatives and free marketeers should try to make the private aspects of the private-public partnership stronger, and in line with their ideals critically (not cynically) question the public end of the partnership, in the transition to a green economy, rather than trying to relay anti-scientific say anything bullsh*t because of their delusion that environmentalism is just a cloak for SOCIALISM!!!!!!!
Looks like the problem is with China handles industrial waste. Not with solar power.
Did anyone see “60 Minutes” last night?
Coal ash.
Not all the poison goes into the air.
The ‘jawless fish’ puts yet another kitchen sink expose’ on the Internet.
Hmmm.
Looks like China can make big advances in new technology when its government doesn’t have to pay back big entrenched business interests and maintain the status quo at all costs.
Maybe we should try a government that encourages free enterprise instead of letting big corporations run it for their benefit.
Nah. Who would pay Rush Limbaugh then . . .
Where’s cosMO to support his Chicom comrades? Brownlee falls all over the state run Chinese propaganda.
Crapon seems to think the “status quo” in China is “big entrenched business”. It sounds like he was brainwashed while he lived in China.
DonnDumbass–
(That’s for CrapOn)
Dear Dumbass–
Read my post again. I was saying just the opposite: that China has more freedom to pursue new technology because it doesn’t have to kiss big buisness a$s, most of which has a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.
Get a clue, moron.
I accept your apology in advance . . .
‘Contributions to global warming map ‘
http://www.wri.org/publication/content/7811
cosMo when are you going to catch up? That data is nearly 10 years. The AGW fanatics are going to use that same map 20 years from now when China and India will each be twice the size of the US if they get their way.
Why do you hate America so much MO?
Crapon America, Why didn’t you stay in Chicom where you belong? Or are you still there?
Crapon, I’m sorry I took you for an America.
an American
cosmos maps shows every square inch of the U.S. as industrialized.
This looks like something out of a children’s crayola book.
I’m sure the inhabitants of West Texas will be thrilled that their mesquite country is now an industrialzied area. Or that Yellowstone Park is an industrial area.
This is what alarmist pseudo science is all about, paint everything with a broad stroke, cry ‘Henny Penny’ 24/7.
“donndublin” contributes –
“Crapon America…”
…shortly after “Regular” gave us –
“fecal face.”
I think we have evidence of WE Blog CONs’ basic problem: traumatic toilet training.
donndublin when are you going to understand that CO2 has a long lifetime in Earth’s atmosphere?
Answer: Probably never. . . the point is much too “difficult” for donndublin.
There is nothing stopping the liberals from investing their money into the green technology they love so much right now.
So… what is stopping them?
Maybe if America would relax its regulations, get rid of workers rights, allow companies to dump toxic waste anywhere, and allow employment of children we could compete with China’s “Green” boom.
Some posters here seem unable to understand the main points of the article in the header.
Taking time from your porn browsing to blog here cosmos?
I saw a very attractively priced solar panel for sale at Habor Freight not long ago. Chinese made.
‘ China’s green leap forward
Facing dire pollution and wanting to be in on what may be the next industrial revolution, China positions itself to be a leader in green technology – with major implications for the rest of the world.‘
http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/08/10/china%E2%80%99s-green-leap-forward/
From the article linked to by Cosmos
“China will likely remain the world’s worst polluter, emitting more CO2 than any other nation, for the foreseeable future. Its reliance on cheap coal to generate the bulk of its electricity makes that almost inevitable”
So, they use their disregard for the environment, their slave labor, and goverment controlled industry, along with American Dollars to build “cheaper” green technology. Wow. I guess we could emulate that. But I would imagine that Cosmos, among others, would object.
Yeah Cosmos…
China is doing it to make money selling that crap to everyone else.
Not because they actually believe in “going green”
And as I said, nothing is stopping you and the other liberals from investing in “going green” right now.
cosmos_originally
Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:22 am | Permalink
donndublin when are you going to understand that CO2 has a long lifetime in Earth’s atmosphere?
Answer: Probably never. . . the point is much too “difficult” for donndublin.
_____________
MO, when are you going to understand that if the US goes to 0% emmission, we would have to destroy everything including the people and that won’t stop China from leading the world as it is today.
Keep living in the past if that makes you feel better, grasshoper.
Posters here insist that China does not care if it continues to poison their own population, and farmland. That’s interesting. . .
And very predictably, donndublin cannot understand the significance of CO2’s long lifetime in Earth’s atmosphere. Or perhaps donndublin doesn’t want to believe in “responsibility”?
Why yes son, I can remember when America was a great nation. But that was gone before I was your age. Maybe someday it will come back. IF we can get the “free” market out of the way.
I tell ya son. I remember a time when the trains were filled with American goods headed for export instead of loaded with cargo from China.
Mo believes it’s that America should be destroyed so China can inherit the world.
Bj and Mo are fellow comrades. No wonder they like abortion. The two want human sacrafices to their god, the one world government.
“Right now, China is focused on low-cost manufacturing of solar, wind and batteries and building the world’s biggest market for these products.”
It’s not too late.
But it is getting late. The sun is just touching the western horizon for America’s status as a world leader. Are we gonna go gently into that night?
“cosmos_originally
Posted October 5, 2009 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
Posters here insist that China does not care if it continues to poison their own population, and farmland. That’s interesting. . .”
Cosmos, with this statement
” China positions itself to be a leader in green technology – with major implications for the rest of the world.‘”
Links to:
http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/08/10/china%E2%80%99s-green-leap-forward/
From the article linked to by Cosmos
““China will likely remain the world’s worst polluter, emitting more CO2 than any other nation, for the foreseeable future. Its reliance on cheap coal to generate the bulk of its electricity makes that almost inevitable”
interesting…….
cosmos’ pseudo science wants everyone to believe that co2 last for 100 plus years in the astmosphere. It’s the only way that the alarmists can get their models to work.
If that were true, there would never be any ocean recycling of co2.
Every peer reviewed study done on the atmosphere since 1957 has shown about a 10-15 year lifetime of co2.
Every single one…
I guess human rights atrocities and child labor are just fine as long as those folks are rapidly building solar panels(which are made of highly toxic materials).
“Green” Logic.
#
Nathaniel
Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:39 am | Permalink
There is nothing stopping the liberals from investing their money into the green technology they love so much right now.
So… what is stopping them?
==================================================
Actually, Nathan, though you would hardly be able to recognize it, we are. And when Gore invested in ‘green technology’, you cons all whined like little girls. But then, that’s what you all do best, isn’t it?
#
Regular
Posted October 5, 2009 at 8:53 am | Permalink
The ‘jawless fish’ puts yet another kitchen sink expose’ on the Internet.
=================================================
And again the ‘brainless troll-monkey’ pops up with yet another pearl of nonsense on the internet.
littlejohn posted October 5, 2009 at 11:43 am
From the article linked to by Cosmos
“China will likely remain the world’s worst polluter, emitting more CO2 than any other nation, for the foreseeable future. Its reliance on cheap coal to generate the bulk of its electricity makes that almost inevitable”
So, they use their disregard for the environment, . . . to build “cheaper” green technology. Wow. I guess we could emulate that.
——————————
We already did. . . but to support our fossil-fueled economy.
The U.S. is responsible for more than twice as much CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere today than China AND India AND S.E. Asia all combined.
What is slowing U.S. investment into green technology?
AGW science deniers, who are backed by fossil-fuel interests, such as Koch.
cosmos BEE ESS’es again with:
The U.S. is responsible for more than twice as much CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere today than China AND India AND S.E. Asia all combined.
Totally fabricated nonsense and typical alarmist scare tactic.
Nathaniel
Posted October 5, 2009 at 10:39 am | Permalink
There is nothing stopping the liberals from investing their money into the green technology they love so much right now.
So… what is stopping them?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is stopping them? OPM. Other People’s Money. Don’t you see the trend? Liberals never use their own money. They use someone else’s.
Once again Steve McIntyre has proven a crucial part of the global warming swindle to be without factual merit. In this case he has proven statistically that Michael Mann [actually Keith Briffa in this case __AF], in producing his Hockey Stick theory has deliberately faked his most basic evidence.
After 10 years of data being withheld that would allow true scientific replication, and after dozens of requests for that data, Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit finally was given access to the data from Yamal Peninsula, Russia. He discovered that only 12 trees had been used out of a much larger dataset of tree ring data. When the larger data set was plotted, there is no “hockey stick” of temperature, in fact it goes in the opposite direction. Get your primer here.
Since all 12 trees were very much at variance with the average readings from that group it is just statistically impossible that Mann [Briffa _AF] selected all 12 at random. Therefore it is fraud. These particular tree rings were the evidence on which the entire Hockey Stick theory, that we had flat temperatures for the previous, originally, 1,500 years & an unprecedented sharp rise this century. This is effectively the entire “global warming”/”"climate change”/”dangerous climate change” case.
What is slowing U.S. investment into green technology?
===================================
Corporate Regulations, Environmental Regulations, and Labor Laws.
We need to get to China’s standards in order to complete.
Preach on Cosmo!
Sol.. lots of private money is flowing into green businesses.
But they can’t match a push by the power of the US government. With old jobs fading fast, massive cash infusions are needed to jumpstart new industries, like the $80 billions or so in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.
http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/09/28/cleantech-investing-officially-bounces-back-from-recession/
“Eco-friendly investments, from individual stocks to mutual funds and ETFs, have outperformed the Dow and S&P 500 this year”
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/aug2009/gb2009085_888782.htm
ANTI
Posted October 5, 2009 at 1:03 pm | Permalink
I guess human rights atrocities and child labor are just fine as long as those folks are rapidly building solar panels(which are made of highly toxic materials).
“Green” Logic.
_____________
I believe it’s called “watermelon” Logic. Red on the inside and green on the outside.
cosmos_originally
Posted October 5, 2009 at 1:19 pm | Permalink
What is slowing U.S. investment into green technology?
AGW science deniers, who are backed by fossil-fuel interests, such as Koch.
————
AGW fanatics are backed by Cap and Trade (TAX) interests, such as Algore and Enron type compmanies.
soldevvb posted October 5, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Once again Steve McIntyre has proven [that he is clueless about climate science].
——————————
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/yamal2000/
LMFAO. CRU cosmo? Really? That is almost as stupid as pointing to a RealClimate link to prove that RealClimate is credible source.
Yep Sol, the Yama tree study was used for the Hockey Stick chart. They even used fossilized tree in a tree ring growth study! Talk about fraud!
Then in 2008 Briffa, Schweingruber and some colleagues published a paper using the Yamal series (again) in a journal called the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, which has very strict data sharing rules. Steve sent in his customary request for the data, and this time an editor stepped up to the plate, ordering the authors to release their data. A short while ago the data appeared on the internet. Steve could finally begin to unpack the Yamal composite.
It turns out that many of the samples were taken from dead (partially fossilized) trees and they have no particular trend. The sharp uptrend in the late 20th century came from cores of 10 living trees alive as of 1990, and five living trees alive as of 1995. Based on scientific standards, this is too small a sample on which to produce a publication-grade proxy composite. The 18th and 19th century portion of the sample, for instance, contains at least 30 trees per year. But that portion doesn’t show a warming spike. The only segment that does is the late 20th century, where the sample size collapses. Once again a dramatic hockey stick shape turns out to depend on the least reliable portion of a dataset.
What out Reg, your’re going way over the head of the pre algebra logic libs.
You know 30% of 50% of 80% which is 30/20/80 or 328% of the left.
That’s Watch out Reg
Cosmos links to an article that says
“China will likely remain the world’s worst polluter, emitting more CO2 than any other nation, for the foreseeable future. Its reliance on cheap coal to generate the bulk of its electricity makes that almost inevitable”
And then says
“The U.S. is responsible for more than twice as much CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere today than China AND India AND S.E. Asia all combined.”
Uh. Okay. Thanks
soldevvb,
“Stupid” is you claiming that you know more about the tree ring data than the scientists who analysed it.
littlejohn,
You’re welcome.
cosmos_originally
Posted October 5, 2009 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
soldevvb,
“Stupid” is you claiming that you know more about the tree ring data than the scientists who analysed it.
—————
Other scientists examined and called the tree ring study that McInLiar used as fraud.
Yeah, cos, I did the study that discovered the fraud.
cos-mo: adj. See stupid
donndublin very predictably resorts to using the AGW science denier’s favourite strawman — Al Gore.
Mo must think that Koch is more powerful than Algore and the Chicoms.
CRU refuses to disclose data. Wonder what they are hiding?
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090812/full/460787a.html
cos-mo: adj. See stupid
soldevvb,
You haven’t been arguing that Briffa et al were all wrong, and that McIntyre was correct?
al-Gore is a straw man? Didn’t he win some kind of award preaching the (false) gospel of the alarmists?
Trying to distance yourself there cos?
cos-mo: adj. See stupid
I posted a link cosmo. Are you too ignorant to understand that. Oh whoops.
cos-mo: adj. See stupid
What is the CRU hiding cos? Why won’t they turn over their data?
cos-mo: adj. See stupid
“The U.S. is responsible for more than twice as much CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere today than China AND India AND S.E. Asia all combined.”
LJ, It’s been “today” since 1999.
Only by playing with data can scientists come up with the infamous ‘hockey stick’ graph of global warming
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/01/ross-mckitrick-defects-in-key-climate-data-are-uncovered.aspx
LOL. The Gavin response disected.
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/how-to-read-rc/
Realclimate blog is a joke. Mutual butt-kissing society is all it is.
donndublin posted October 5, 2009 at 2:18 pm
“The U.S. is responsible for more than twice as much CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere today than China AND India AND S.E. Asia all combined.”
LJ, It’s been “today” since 1999.
———————–
And it will continue to be “today” for many years, unless the U.S. sharply cuts CO2 emissions, and China’s CO2 emissions remain high.
The percentages that accumulated during the previous century+ are not easily/quickly changed.
Every peer reviewed study done on the atmosphere since 1957 has shown about a 10-15 year lifetime of co2. – Reg
EXAMPLE:
Many excellent studies show (see Segalstad) that CO2 only stays in the air around 5 years. No study shows a longer “life span” than 12 years
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Scientific/CO2-flux.htm
____________
Mo, that means, in 5 years your 1999 map will be irrelevent.
You’d better get down on your knees Mo. It’s getting late.
“The percentages that accumulated during the previous century+ are not easily/quickly changed.”- MO
Here we go again with lib logic on “percentages”.
MO stayed up till 2:45 AM (China time) on WE blog today. I bet the little guy was very tired to stay up that late. He will need to meet his comrades to get the latest talking points for tommorrow’s blogging while most of us are will be sawing Zs.
I’ll go home and enjoy my evening.
Sweet dreams MO.
donndublin cannot understand that reality does not follow the silly/false claims of his greenworldtrust.org web page.
Maybe we should stop buying so much Chinese crap.
We should put sanctions on China to improve their work conditions, liberate workers with inalienable rights, and make them go through more rigorous safety measures to improve product quality.
That’s the only way to compete with China. Is to expose them as the cheaters they are, and make them compete on the even playing field to highers standards that most industrialized nations have to abide by.
China puts their own workers and citizens at risk for profit. American corporations make money off all the sweatshop labor that goes on. In turn, China has to keep up with a demand to pump out so much cheap stuff, that safety regulations and product safety fall to the wayside, which pose a risk for anybody who buys their crap.
They’ll continue to grow like a country on steroids and eventually suffer the ill effects when they finally have to answer to their human rights abuses. But by then, America’s economy maybe so malnourished by American businesses selling the American people down the river for all those extra sweatshop dollars to line their pockets with. That America will have lost it’s influence as the most powerful country.
We’ll also lose a great deal of respect.
Hey MO, Did that pre algabra class burn you out on math?
‘CO2, warming, and causality‘
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/03/co2_warming_and_causality.php
“CO2 is not causing global warming, in fact, CO2 is lagging temperature change in all reliable datasets. ”
[Comment] See also my forthcoming paper: “Chickens do not lay eggs, because they have been observed to hatch from them“.
cosMo goes back to his leftist blog for a cliche and mumbles; “you don’t need no stinking math to know science, just a bleeding heart”.
donndublin, I was just making fun of your silly, ignorant, AGW science denying source.
MO, I was just making fun of your incomprehension of the foundation of science.
I shouldn’t make fun of donndublin’s use of GWT as a source of climate science.
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/AboutUs/gwt.htm
Considering donndublin’s many other ridiculous posts, s/he probably foolishly believes that GWT is actually a credible scientific journal.
soldevvb posted October 5, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Once again Steve McIntyre has proven [that he is clueless about climate science].
——————————
‘Let the backpedalling begin ‘
http://deepclimate.org/2009/10/07/let-the-backpedalling-begin/
“Now comes new evidence that McIntyre’s accusations were completely false. And not only that, one of the Russian researchers who actually control the raw tree-ring data that McIntyre was mistakenly hounding Briffa for, has apparently confirmed that utilization of a newer more complete Yamal data set has no substantial effect on Briffa’s Yamal temperature reconstruction.”