One new arena’s success is no guarantee of another’s, of course, but it was interesting to read that Kansas City, Mo., will reap a $1.8 million profit from the Sprint Center’s operation during the past fiscal year. That’s because of a profit-sharing deal with arena operator Anschutz Entertainment Group; also, without an NHL or NBA team, the Sprint Center has the flexibility to book more big concerts and other events. The arena also was ranked by Pollstar among the nation’s top five live entertainment venues for the first quarter of 2009. “It means it’s a must-play marketplace. Two years ago, it wasn’t,” Tim Leiweke, president of Anschutz Entertainment Group, told the Kansas City Star.
Similarly, Sedgwick County’s contract with manager SMG for the Intrust Bank Arena protects the county from losses for the first five years. And what if it proves profitable? SMG would get the first $450,000 of annual profit after recovering money for any prior losses. The county would receive the next $450,000 in profit after being reimbursed for any capital expenses exceeding $250,000. And after that, the county would receive 60 percent and SMG would receive 40 percent of any remaining profit.
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65 Comments
In no other business but taxpayer financed businesses is the entire cost of developing a business written off as though it was free.
In the case of Kansas City’s new downtown Sprint Center, it was largely paid for out of fees collected on rental car and hotel/motel charges so taxpayers were relieved from some of the major development costs. Even so, like Wichita’s arena, the Sprint Center failed to provide adequate parking for attendees. So people I know in K.C. tell me they don’t plan to attend there often.
In the case of Wichita’s new white elephant downtown Intrust arena, its cheerleaders would like to ignore the 1/2 billion dollars of upfront costs paid by Sedgwick County and Wichita taxpayers as though those costs didn’t exist. Of course, there will be tremendous expenses for management, maintenance, insurance, electrical power and natural gas costs, ice sheet costs, etc. And don’t forget the major expense of purchasing several $150,000 Zamboni ice sheet scrapers plus maintenance plus operators, etc.
All these expenses must be paid by taxpayers in lieu of all the other important needs by Sedgwick County and Wichita taxpayers.
Does a “profit” ignore these tremendous expenses and costs of this taxpayer owned gargantuan bloated unwanted white elephant downtown arena that replaces the perfectly good Kansas Coliseum?
Only in the minds of failed county commissioners, Tim Norton and Dave Unruh, and their fellow downtown arena cheerleaders.
Building taxpayer-financed arenas is a fetish for small cities nationwide.
Reminds me of that “Monorail” episode of “The Simpsons.”
Well a good half of the community have a strong resolve never to go to the place. Add in the parking disaster that will put off people the first time they DO try to attend and I don’t see how this thing can be anything but a complete flop.
The arena does have a element of the movie
“Field of dreams” build it and they will come.
For the sake of the tax payers I hope that it true, but then was that not also the thinking about the Coliseum?
What would you tell a couple who’s thinking is we want more children all they need to do is build a bigger house?
We should all hope the arena works. Taxpayer’s have already been taxed and the money is spent.
Let’s work to get a return on our money.
Politico–
Hope in one hand, crap in the other.
Kansas City has about ten times the population base of Wichita.
Other than that, we’re exactly the same . . .
ok can I post now?
The aerial view of the Sprint Center looks like it has plenty of parking right there on site. I still don’t understand why they stick arenas right in the middle of a busy district with heavy traffic anyway. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/12678037
You also have to understand, Kansas City is the central business mecca of the US. They have big conventions. While I travel to both Wichita and Kansas City for business, the big meetings always happen in KC.
“Spitz, who is the head of Pro-Life Virginia, runs a Web site called the Army of God. He has praised Roeder’s actions and calls him a “true American hero”
One of Parkay’s buddies, no doubt. Let me ask you this- if a muslim dude in the US was praising the death of soldiers in Afghanistan, would he not be stripped of every finance? Would he not be investigated to the inth degree? Why is this not happening to these people?
This goes far beyond free speech, this is domestic terrorism. They have frightened and scared off people seeking abortions, made it so that it is so difficult to get an abortion even if you need one. They should not be able to wield this kind of power!
Army of God people should be investigated, jailed, brought before court, stripped of their finances, and imprisoned.
oops wrong thread.
P-Mom,
They put arenas in cenral business districts in hopes of increasing foot traffic and hence more business for merchants. Lack of designated parking areas also aids that goal, as people have to walk past their windows to get to an event. And when we taxpayers have to pay the half-billion plus for the privilege of walking past their windows…….
capn…your sentiment is accurate,but your facts are way off. The SMSA of KC area is estimated to be around 2.3 million. Wichita is around 596,000. While the KC area is substantially larger, it is nowhere near 10 times as large as you claim.
A little over 4 times the size is more accurate.
Facts are a good thing.
clarification..wichita SMSA is around 596k.
Wichita has a problem at the airport, Kansas City doesn’t have.
There is more to do in KC, Wichita can’t act big city at all.
Key thing for Intrust Arena is participation by KU, KSU and WSU athletic teams. Basketball, volleyball. Every season, those teams play each other in Intrust Arena. KSU and KU playing against WSU would happen in alternate years. Each of them can be the Home team.
Businesses here have to support those games to happen. Wichita Sports Commission and SMG has to get those deals done.
Concerts there people want to see. Concert promoters now have a better place than the Coliseum ever was.
Political speeches will draw the crowds in this highly partisan time.
Someone will hold Church services.
High school sports.
I place Thunder Hockey as the lowest event.
It’s too bad Democracy happened and the vote was approved according to you complainers.
So far the County has done a marginal job, that is expected. Their first time creating a modern Arena. One of the most expensive structures created here. There is a question about parking, so quit whining about it.
Some of you people can’t imagine walking 100 yards.
Democracy happened again, County Commissioners on the board have their self interest ahead of public good, like Kelly Parks.
It’s the future of Wichita being built and nothing is definite here. One Epic Tower, Boathouse uncertainty and Century II not kept up to modern amenities are glaring examples.
Big process to find some marketing plan for downtown. I see buildings downtown that shouldn’t be standing anymore. Forget about them being redeveloped or some street scape done.
“Some of you people can’t imagine walking 100 yards.”
I know lots of people, including myself, who walk several miles each day, but I don’t know anyone who walks in the dark or in all weather conditions.
linda,
Really? You don’t know anyone who has walked in the dark or all weather conditions?
Not walked from the malls during shopping seasons like after Thanksgiving and Christmas in the dark when it’s cold and snowing?
You fear the unknown, a bit irrational. Walking downtown is different than walking around dark parking lots at Malls, not more unsafe.
The mall parking lots are cleaned off. You know the condition of the side streets in Wichita following a storm. We’re lucky if the main roads are cleared.
I don’t fear the unknown. That’s unfair of you to assume.
I voted FOR the arena! It’s a vote I have been disappointed in and regretted. I was promised parking! I was also lied to and told my property taxes would increase if I didn’t vote yes. As it turns out my property taxes increased anyway, and there is no parking.
I’ve spoken to many like me who wouldn’t vote the same way if they had known the truth.
linda,
The Arena was paid for with temporary increase in sales tax. There will be parking.
County has to negotiate with some businesses in the zone so Arena event attenders can park in those lots.
Everyone knows there is a challenge with traffic flow. That is real uncertainty getting in and out of the zone.
I think City and County have a vested interest keep sidewalks clear on rainy and icy days around the Arena.
Complain to the County Appraisers office who sets your property taxes rate. You have that right.
The last time I was at Century II following a winter storm we finally found a place to park almost to Lewis in a field south of the parking lots. Even that close to Century II the streets weren’t cleared and were rutted with ice. It was a dangerous walk. I went because a grandchild was in the all-city orchestra. I’m not sure even an honor for one of my grandchildren would entice me to repeat that!
I know how the arena was paid for. I also remember that time period of sales tax increase was promised to be enough to not only build the arena but also fund several years maintenance. It didn’t.
I’ve seen the parking plan. Falls way short of what voters were promised before the election that approved the arena.
We were lied to. It was the last time I had any trust in City or County officials. They deserve the skepticism I have today.
btw, Mrage, what benefit would there be for either KSU or KU to play games in Wichita?
BRAMLAGE COLISEUM — The structure has hosted seven of the 10 largest crowds in Kansas State ’s impressive men’s basketball history, including a Bramlage-record 13,762 for the Kansas game on Feb. 22, 1992.
ALLEN FIELDHOUSE — With capacity seating of 16,300, Allen Fieldhouse is the largest basketball arena in the state of Kansas and the second largest in the Big 12 Conference.
Capn says: “Politico–
“Hope in one hand, crap in the other.
“Kansas City has about ten times the population base of Wichita.
“Other than that, we’re exactly the same . . .”
Actually, Politico is right on this one. J. Wink in particular seems to be so obsessed with this issue that he seems to be missing the point. The Sprint Arena has been a success. BTW, one thing I didn’t realize until I talked to some people up in KC? The parking situation is intentional. In downtown redevelopment, you don’t want a destination that people simply go to and then leave, they want traffic in the retail areas around it.
And your estimate about Kansas City having 10 times the population base of Wichita? Not even remotely close. If Kansas City had “10 times” the population base of Wichita, the Kansas City metro would have well over 6 million people (the entire state of Missouri doesn’t even have 6 million people). The Kansas City metro area does number about 2 million, which is considerably more than the 600,000 Wichita’s has. But that is a lot less than 10 times as large. In fact, it doesn’t even come close to qualifying for 5 times as large.
“clarification..wichita SMSA is around 596k.”
By now, according to 2008 estimates, it is over 600,000.
linda,
SMG was hired to run Intrust Arena so it’s in their interest to sell tickets, make sure parking is available. County and City crews working at night clearing streets, sidewalks and parking lots. I assume they will try to do those tasks well.
You assume they can’t work like the malls?
I haven’t seen the parking plan, but know the streets downtown enough. Parking maps should be created so public can understand by time Arena opens.
If you hold politicans to lying, which one is ever correct? Politicans are rarely specific.
The Arena vote was a good choice and location is better than where Coliseum is. People who are paid to build Arena’s nationally understand that.
We all have to get used to parking downtown in that area. Getting out of there reasonably with traffic after Arena events are over.
Why would KSU and KU play WSU in Intrust Arena, because it’s state rivalry. KSU, KU and WSU will not lose games in their campus arenas at all.
None of that home and away discussion anymore.
Free standing Arena where they can play each other. Both KSU and KU drive by to Oklahoma for games every season. They won’t be going out of their way to be here for games.
SMG and Wichita Sports Commission have the duty to make those state rivalry games happen here.
We can’t assume a horrible future, it’s all positive and hopeful now.
I look at the one Epic Tower and frown all the time. I look at old Holiday Inn building, no matter it’s rental apartments now, that is an ugly building in our skyline. Century II needs redevelopment inside.
The Boathouse and Lawrence-Dumont baseball stadium uncertain futures. They both need fixing up!
I like the Arena downtown and area around has to be improved. There is possibility of success if people involved try hard enough.
Make it easy to attend events at Intrust Arena. Simple sentence, how tough can that job be for the County and City?
They need citizens to have a open mind and some willing to participate in this challenge.
I agree that we need to aim for success, Mrage! I’m with you and probably every other Wichitan in hoping the arena makes money, our downtown becomes vibrant and all those other venues succeed as well! It cost us and we want it be self sufficient in the future.
I’ve been down to Final Fridays and First Fridays. I would love to see those kinds of crowds every weekend.
I’m not hoping against the success, just not seeing it as the probable outcome.
I still see no benefit to either KSU or KU playing basketball in Wichita.
Mainly, every time I think about or see the arena I remember how many lies were told to win that narrow victory and I feel betrayed and dismayed. I’ll always want to take that vote back!
mrage – weren’t you one of those who was CERTAIN you would get the NCAA? How did that work out for you?
“Businesses here have to support those games to happen. Wichita Sports Commission and SMG has to get those deals done.”
Are those the same businesses who will chip in to make the arena 17,000 seats?
Well, the arena is reality. B*tching about it now won’t change a thing. It will probably do just fine. Although I thought it should have had more capacity and built in a different location, I’m glad it’s here.
And there will be NCAA tourneys here before you know it, along with a lot of other attractive entertainment.
Realistically, Wichita had little chance of landing an NCAA Regional this go round. It’s a little tough to win an NCAA Regional when you haven’t even opened for business yet.
The best possible scenario for an NCAA basketball tournament site is two days’ rent for the hall.
I doubt if Wichitans will have to worry about finding a parking place because there’s no act that could possibly sell out the house that would play for a paltry 17,000 house.
You might be able to book Lee Greenwood’s “A Medley of My Hit” tour. Or the “Waylon Flowers Come-Back Reunion with ‘Madame’ show.” (Yeah, I know he’s been dead 20 years, but he still packs his theater in Branson.)
It’s (by arena standards) an undersized room in a backwater town that’s hard to fly into and lacks a critical mass of first-class hotel rooms.
The closest thing to fine dining in Wichita is that Hardee’s outside Towanda.
Yeah. The world is coming to the Intrust Arena!
Bring it on.
I will never visit the rich people’s arena, not even if the admission is free. I do not accept that there are some worthy of better seats and closer parking simply by “virtue” of their wealth. Let it die.
linda,
KU and KSU have used athletes from Wichita in past years, they will recruit here all the time.
Big KU group in Wichita, a lot of KSU fans in Sedgwick County. Attending rivalry basketball games should happen at Intrust Arena. WSU fans will be there.
Whoever wins it’s a W on their record. Wins matter for NCAA March Madness. Is it a quality win, who knows, that depends on each team winning records that season.
Should have KU played WSU the year Shockers went to the Sweet 16? KU has lost in first round of the NCAA’s before.
No basketball game is guaranteed all the time. Injuries play a part, making wins uncertain.
With dummies on basketball teams, suspensions could change the games.
It’s bad attitude only that KSU and KU don’t play WSU. Now there is place to play that offers all of them equal advantage.
bth,
I had no idea SMG was bidding for 2011 to 2013 NCAA mens basketball first round games. Too early I thought. Wichita has things to overcome helping to make it a destination in this state.
NCAA likely looked at the airport first. Then Hotels athletes could stay at. Also the shaky attendance numbers for events in recent years.
We existed with the Coliseum too long. What is a new Arena, few of us know. How many have gone to Sprint Center in KC, Pepsi Center in Denver or Ford Center in OKC?
Wichita has challenges for groups to come here.
I have no doubts of advertising, businesses will advertise when big Arena events happen.
BlueJay,
I bet if free attendance to Rush Limbaugh in the Arena, you would be there. How can you listen to the fool on radio everyday and not see his fat face or loud mouth in person?
It is unlikely Rush will move his girth traveling to Wichita. Why not, he can’t be in more Red state in the midwest. He would draw a big crowd here.
Heck, not only will I not GO to the arena, I may just go and park in one of the spots and wonder around old Town to help the arena fail. The thing is an offense against the common man.
Why would KU, KSU, and WSU, play at the arena when they have their own facilities?
Yeah, but what will it be when it goes belly up?
Will the city leaders turn it into another “museum” that no one gives a s*** about.
All I can say is that I got forced to help pay for an arena I can’t get into and can’t afford tickets to if I could, and does me no good whatsoever. And I doubt that you sports fans would even consider thanking me for my contribution to your temporary pleasure dome. And when that architectural mostrosity goes belly up, I’ll probably have the enjoyment of helping pay to have it torn down. At least I don’t own a business in the area which now won’t have parking space for its customers on game days. Many of those are going to have to migrate out to the edges of town to keep their businesses alive, and the desert known as downtown will grow even more dessicated. Real revitalizing, huh?
“All I can say is that I got forced to help pay for an arena I can’t get into and can’t afford tickets to if I could, and does me no good whatsoever.”
So, apparently, that would be true for ANY arena.
“And I doubt that you sports fans would even consider thanking me for my contribution to your temporary pleasure dome.”
Gee, thank you. Now, keep in mind that the arena was paid for by vote. For the most part, the same people who opposed it then are the same people who oppose it now (I know, I know, there are some people who are disappointed about the parking, but the fact of the matter is, there will be spaces for people who have physical disabilities as well as “the wealthy”, and secondly, I think many people-and I would include myself in this group-misunderstood the purpose of a downtown arena-it is to help revitalize a downtown-that doesn’t work so well if the arena doesn’t increase foot traffic in the area it resides).
“And when that architectural mostrosity goes belly up, I’ll probably have the enjoyment of helping pay to have it torn down.”
Uh huh. We’ll see. Regarding the architectural merits, I will take your declaration with a grain of salt and leave it at that. The one thing I will be very disappointed in is if the acoustics of the arena are as flat out bad as Kansas Coliseum and Hartman Arena. There would be no excuse for this. I have been to many arenas, including such oldies as Kemper Arena and even Ahearn Fieldhouse, that put those two to shame.
“At least I don’t own a business in the area which now won’t have parking space for its customers on game days. Many of those are going to have to migrate out to the edges of town to keep their businesses alive, and the desert known as downtown will grow even more dessicated. Real revitalizing, huh?”
What is the basis for your prediction? Many downtown arenas have worked. They have increase business traffic, not decreased it. Look at the Power and Light District in Kansas City. Hell, having the Kansas Coliseum helped Park City.
There are no guarantees that the Intrust Arena will work, but it would benefit all of us if it did, even if we personally never set foot in it.
The fact is, the thing is built, and it is in none of our interests to see it fail, except for those who think they will get pleasure from saying “I told you so”. And that would be a fleeting and pathetic pleasure.
I live in Wichita but visit KC regulary and the people who must not visit the Sprint Center are the suburbanites who are afraid of driving downtown once every 3 months out of stereotypical thoughts of crime, bad parking and basically a lazy and negative approach to life. Kansas City has a very split metro on a whole thanks to county and state lines and Wichita is in better shape as a result of not having that problem. However, both are the same when it comes to having a more vocal (and generally older) crowd that is negative on about everything for building to the future.
“There are no guarantees that the Intrust Arena will work, but it would benefit all of us if it did,”
Benefit all of us?
WHEE! Rich people get good seats and close parking!
No benefit I can see in that.
“Benefit all of us?
“WHEE! Rich people get good seats and close parking!
“No benefit I can see in that.”
Well, honestly, Blue Jay, you are simplistic.
The benefit comes from getting more people in the downtown area, and having things for them to do when they are there.
And that doesn’t just benefit “rich people”.
I will continue to hope that the arena is a flat failure.
“Why would KU, KSU, and WSU, play at the arena when they have their own facilities?”
I think the thought is that having an arena might increase the chances of games between WSU and KSU and KU by having a “neutral” site. The fact is, both KU and K-State (particularly the former, but now also the latter) have the attitude that they will only play a team like WSU if they host the majority of games, something like a Home-Home-Away-Home-Home arrangement, and WSU naturally sees that as unacceptable. However, all three schools may accept an arrangment of Home-Intrust-Home-Away where Intrust serves as a “neutral” court where fans from all programs have equal access to first come first serve tickets. However, I do not share Mrage’s optimism on that. I think KU and K-State would try to bypass Koch Arena entirely for at best a Home-Intrust-Home-Intrust arrangment, and I don’t think WSU would or should go for that, because they would want the benfits of hosting games with K-State and KU. It is even possible that the Big 12 schools might even try to go for the same sort of arrangements they would agree to now, except with Intrust substituting for Koch Arena, which WSU would find even more unacceptable.
Yeah, I’m “simplistic”. I see an arena that was built by the many for the amusement of the few on the promise that the many would get trickled down on. I don’t call getting trickled down on any sort of benefit.
“Yeah, I’m ’simplistic’. I see an arena that was built by the many for the amusement of the few on the promise that the many would get trickled down on.”
Jeeze, how expensive are you assuming attending an event in the arena is going to be? There will be events there that are affordable to most of those who want it. Do you think the Kansas Coliseum was only for the wealthy few? Or the new Hartman Arena?
I think it is going to be a long while before we see the arena being profitable.
With the profit sharing agreement with SMG and the losses I would anticipate in the first couple of years at least, it will take a lot of profit and years for SMG to make those up before the county sees any.
The way the economy is locally and nationally, there are not a whole lot of big time acts (those that are going to command tickets in the $100 range) out there right now.
Couldn’t pick a worse time for something like this to be opening. It’s unfortunate.
Ag,
I’ve been around long enough to have seen endless projects sold to us voters on their ability to “revitalize the downtown area.” Mostly they’ve revitalized the profit margins of contractors who are not located in the downtown area, and downtown has continued its decline unabated, while much of the real activity is on the edges, where there is room to expand. And park. This is the way cities naturally grow when there is space around them to expand, as Wichita has. Maybe downtown needs to die a natural death and become a large park with a large parking lot, easy access and a nice fountain, Century II, an expanded library, reasonable police presence and an arena, maybe even a good-sized dog park! Quit trying to do CPR on a long-dead skeleton and put our efforts where they will do some good. We need to redirect our concept of downtown. Give up on it as a commercial center and make it aa easily accessible City Center Recreation Area. And maybe then this presently white elephant of an arena might just have the chance it needs to succeed.
You brought up the Kansas Coliseum as an example of its influence in Park City, but you fail to note that the Coliseum has adequate parking space, with room to add more, and Park City also has room to expand.
I do agree that some venue with reasonable acoustics would be nice, but you have to get people inside it to hear them, and the arena doesn’t do that in its present circumstances. It should have been placed where people go rather than using it to attract people to a place they don’t for various reasons want to go. Location X3!
And I did tell you all this when it was proposed. You went ahead and did it, and it was so expensive that now it has to succeed or it will take us down with it. with a conceptual redefinition of what downtown becomes, we have a chance.
I cannot speak about Hartman arena.
The Kansas Coliseum has ample parking and NO luxury boxes.
I originally voted against the arena because the only person I knew voting FOR it (my father) thought it might bring NCAA games here and I could not care less about the NCAA. What set me dead and forever against the arena was the inclusion of luxury boxes and close parking for the people using them.
Fun story involving luxury boxes. At a Wrangler’s game, a foul ball went through the open window of the luxury box and hit one of the swells in the face.
Many in the stands, myself included, applauded.
We were all made to pay for the arena whether we wanted it or not. There should not be special seating for the well heeled.
“I’ve been around long enough to have seen endless projects sold to us voters on their ability to ‘revitalize the downtown area.’ Mostly they’ve revitalized the profit margins of contractors who are not located in the downtown area, and downtown has continued its decline unabated, while much of the real activity is on the edges, where there is room to expand.”
Actually, downtown revitalization has worked in other cities, and there has been growth on each side of “downtown” with Old Town and now Delano. Kansas City and Oklahoma City have revitalized their downtowns. There is no reason, none, to assume that such efforts are automatically destined for failure here. Part of the problem here in Wichita is that downtown redevelopment projects have been done piecemeal. I remember Jack deBoer (who I am not necessarily a huge fan of) offering to go 50% on a comprehensive downtown development plan and being told essentially to get lost in town meetings. Wichita has often shot itself in the foot when it comes to downtown redevelopment, but that does not validate the argument that it is futile to even try.
Arenas have worked. Part of the reasons why they have worked is for the very reason that naysayers seem to miss. A parking plan that involves large amounts of foot traffic going by surrounding businesses. Having primarily self contained parking actually would be counterproductive.
“It should have been placed where people go rather than using it to attract people to a place they don’t for various reasons want to go.”
People didn’t go to the section of downtown KC before the Sprint Center and the Power and Light District went up. Closer to home, people didn’t got to Old Town before it was built up. People go there now, there is no reason to assume they won’t go there when there is something to go to.
In downtown redevelopment, retail and recreation often comes first, then commercial redevelopment follows. Again, I see no reason whatsoever that it can’t work here when it has worked elsewhere.
“We were all made to pay for the arena whether we wanted it or not. There should not be special seating for the well heeled.”
There’s “special seating for the well heeled” everywhere, whether it is front seats or luxury boxes.
“Fun story involving luxury boxes. At a Wrangler’s game, a foul ball went through the open window of the luxury box and hit one of the swells in the face.
“Many in the stands, myself included, applauded.”
How do you know the person sitting up there was a “swell”, much less the sort of “swell” that deserves to have a baseball hit his/her face? I have been in those boxes during Wrangler games with people with developmental disabilities because a “swell” donated the space.
You don’t help the causes you claim to support with comments like that.
A prediction. I think that Wichita WILL get a women’s NCAA bid. And the Arena boosters who have donw-played the significance of the NCAA men’s snub will trumpet it as a huge success and claim that it more than makes up for the failure to get the mens tourney.
A local tourney suggestion: forget about KU and KSU. Get OU, OSU, Tulsa with WSU in a weekend tourney.
When I think of fun cities they all share this in common — within walking distance are ample hotel rooms, restaurants, entertainment, shopping.
If I visit a city for pleasure I expect to either be able to easily drive to and park at all those venues listed above, or, be able walk to all from my hotel room.
As for business meetings and convention trade, the meeting planner will choose the city where attendees have that same access I want in a city I visit for pleasure. The only exception might be because the corporate offices are located in a particular city and then the company employees will often make sure the visitors are shuttled to where they want to be for dining, shopping, entertainment, lodging.
“When I think of fun cities they all share this in common — within walking distance are ample hotel rooms, restaurants, entertainment, shopping.”
I agree, and Wichita is still a long ways away from this, but it is getting better.
I assume Lew Perkins, AD of KU remembers being AD of WSU and is willing to play Shockers at Intrust Arena.
If KSU and KU still demand Home games against WSU that’s nonsense.
No Home schedules for any of the schools will be changed.
If KSU and KU can’t play WSU in Intrust Arena it’s poor sportsmanship and both look down on WSU as an equal. There is no rational reason they don’t play. That Home-Away arguing is over.
I see such crazy thoughts, the NO voters didn’t want sales tax increase for the Arena and also turned down $200 Million in cash money for a Casino in Sedgwick County.
For the last time, Park City location for big business is terrible! Look at realities there!
“I think that Wichita WILL get a women’s NCAA bid.”
Which is dumb. The women’s tournament should have kept doing what they have always done, and allow top seeds to host early round games. It improves attendance in the early rounds (the later rounds and final four are well attended). Besides, upsets did not increase when they went to neutral sites in the early rounds. The absolute top teams in women’s basketball still cruise in to the final rounds, and the seeds just below them suffer no more upsets in the early rounds now than they did when they hosted, but the crowds are smaller.
“I assume Lew Perkins, AD of KU remembers being AD of WSU and is willing to play Shockers at Intrust Arena.”
Maybe. However, KU is one of the top 5 programs in the country. They have a huge amount of control over where they go and who they play. When you are a top flight program, the number of schools or even neutral sites that it is worth your while to visit are substantially decreased, especially outside of BCS conferences. Perkins works for KU now, not WSU, and going to play WSU, even in Intrust, rather than at a home game where a larger, sellout crowd is a given no matter who you play, is a questionable business decision. There are only so many games you can play in a season, and every game KU plays is gold. Hey, I will be delighted to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I will be.
K-State is a little different situation, but they are still a BCS conference team (and yes, I know BCS is a football classification, but it has become an useful classification in football as well), and probably will finish in the upper division again this year as well.
“If KSU and KU still demand Home games against WSU that’s nonsense.”
No, it’s not, particularly for KU. I don’t see any way that playing in Intrust will make KU as much money as hosting WSU. K-State may be a different situation, because they haven’t drawn the kinds of crowds that KU does (or K-State used to draw back in the Hartman days), but still, they have the bigger arena.
“If KSU and KU can’t play WSU in Intrust Arena it’s poor sportsmanship and both look down on WSU as an equal.”
I have news for you, they don’t look down at WSU so much as WSU doesn’t much register with them. KU and K-State athletics are much bigger businesses than WSU. And business considerations are a huge part of what athletic directors and coaches consider when making decisions about where and who to play. KU and K-State are more than willing to play WSU, but not at their own expense, and playing WSU in smaller arenas are losing propositions for them. It really isn’t about sportsmanship. And for WSU, in addition to pride there are business decisions to be made as well. It is not really in WSU’s einterest to go to Lawrence multiple times to get stomped so that they can get one home game with KU that will sell out Koch Arena when they already sell it out. Intrust serving as a “neutral” court may benefit WSU, and MAYBE even K-State, but I am not sure it would do anything for KU when they can fill that date with a game at another big basketball school or, more likely, a home game.
Should be:
“(and yes, I know BCS is a football classification, but it has become an useful classification in basketball as well)”
mrage – I ‘assume’ you cave called Perkins and gottem him on board with your ideas?
NOT!
Agnatha – you might have a point about the womens’ tourney but the overall decision to NOT use home courts has already been established. So, the question becomes which arenas across the country might work? Being close to Oklahome might give IBA an advantage in bidding.
>However, KU is one of the top 5 programs in the country. They have a huge amount of control over where they go and who they play.
Let’s see, first two games in Lawrence later this year.
KU vs Fort Hays State.
KU vs Pittsburg State.
They charge a lot of money for KU fans to see them whip up on smaller schools than WSU.
Does Fort Hays State ever get KU there?
Pittsburg State, is that ever a KU road trip?
Lew Perkins gets no calls this year, I don’t see WSU playing KU or KSU until 2011. I think it should happen, there is little reason to argue against them not playing each other.
KU and KSU can spin, make up reasons not to play WSU in men’s basketball. All three are Division 1 and each could qualify for March Madness. They are equals according to NCAA charters.
I dunno, “Mrage” –
I’m reminded of the kid who digs through the room of horse crap “…because there’s gotta be a pony in there somewhere!”
KU’s games with Ft. Hays, Washburn, and Pittsburg State are charity games; pre-season exhibitions that pay the visitors a comparatively large amount of money to be cannon fodder in November.
If Mark Turgeon had stayed at Wichita State the program might have returned to respectability to warrant a home-and-home arrangement but that’s not likely to happen until the Shockers’ program gets up to snuff. This isn’t a team that has Antoine Carr or Xavier McDaniel anymore. It’s a shame but it’s the truth. Still, Henry Leavitt Arena is still an exciting place to watch a game. And WSU isn’t gonna forfeit the income of a home game just to get wiped out by the Jayhawks once a year.
If — a big if — the Shox get back to where they can consistently dominate (or even compete for) championships in the Missouri Valley, maybe there’s a rationale for regular match-ups. Not ’til then, though.
(BTW, WSU most definitely is not a “BCS caliber school,” what with no football program whatsoever.)
IBA is a minor league building in a backwater town. Transportation here involves puddle-jumper airplanes and no first-class hotel rooms or restaurants.
The Kansas Colosseum survived for years as the home of the “Major” Indoor Soccer League Wings. There was Wichita playing against New York! Chicago! Uhm… Tacoma. (Okay, bad example.)
No one in Kansas City thinks the Sprint Center can long survive without an anchor tenant except it has every date involved (not encumbered by NBA or NHL schedules) to pick up a spare Springsteen or Miley Cyrus concert. KC has twice the population and almost twice the audience capacity in the room.
Fantasies about NCAA March Madness opportunities are meaningless. That’s two days’ rent in a building that needs to turn on the lights at least a couple hundred nights a year. And I really don’t see that happening.
Previously I suggested Wichita pursue another niche sport (as indoor soccer was in the 80s) such as the indoor lacrosse league. A minor league ABA team, or a minor league hockey team, or a minor league rock band reunion tour isn’t gonna pay the rent.
Previously I suggested Wichita pursue another niche sport (as indoor soccer was in the 80s) such as the indoor lacrosse league.
———
Indoor lacrosse league?
And next they should go with after a pro curling franchise.
“outlander” contributes –
“…next they should go with after a pro curling franchise.”
If it were the MAJOR LEAGUE curling league, Wichita would probably buy into it.
Perhaps you weren’t around during the Wichita Wings heydays. Wings players were has-been or never-wases from Europe, but the town embraced ‘em because the Brits talked like rock stars and played in full-mullets.
Anyway. It was just an idea.
Lacrosse sucks. Maybe we could invent a sport. Something uniquely Wichita. Say a pentathlon of, I don’t know; hay bale bucking, rivet popping, traffic cone slalom, pistol marksmanship and musical parking places at the arena.
Calvin-Ball!
I had to think about that one. What a great comic strip that was.
ROLLERBALL!!!!!
Definitely more likely than mrage’s fantasies.