Partisan paranoia and fearmongering have hit destructive new lows with the protests about President Obama’s back-to-school speech to students next week on the importance of education. Talk radio hosts and some GOP leaders are claiming that Obama is going to try to brainwash kids into becoming socialists. Some angry parents are threatening to keep their children home if schools broadcast the speech.
But other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar speeches to students. And the White House has made very clear that the speech isn’t about policies or politics but about encouraging kids to stay in school and to work hard — which should be bipartisan goals. Whether or not you like Obama or agree with his proposals, any rational person should realize that Obama is uniquely able to inspire young people, particularly minorities, to set high academic goals.
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The president should stick to trying to run this nation and addressing the adults. Please leave the unfortunate children to the teachers, liberal thou they may be.
Subtle, but yes it is indoctrination for a very easily impressed crowd.
Please leave your politic’s out of the education of our children. At least the direct indoctrination on your idealogy.
Imagine had Bush tried this…..
though they may be
As discussed on the “Open” thread, it is pretty silly thing to get worked up over.
There are legitimate things to disagree with the president on, but him simply addressing the nations school kids, probably with an inspirational message, is not one of them.
This is not about encouraging children to learn and do well in school. He is asking them to help him. What BS!
http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/mmalkin/2009/mm_09021.shtml
Obama’s Classroom Campaign: No Junior Lobbyist Left Behind
By Michelle Malkin
September 2, 2009
“ABC” stands for All Barack’s Children. On Sept. 8, young students across the country will be watching television. Yes, they’ll be parked in front of boob tubes and computer screens watching President Obama’s address on education.
Instead of practicing cursive, reviewing multiplication tables, diagramming sentences or learning something concrete, America’s kids will be lectured about the importance of learning. And then the schoolchildren, from pre-kindergarten through 12th grade, will be exhorted to Do Something — other than sit in their seats and receive academic instruction, that is.
Education Secretary Arne Duncan dispatched letters to principals nationwide, boasting, “This is the first time an American president has spoken directly to the nation’s schoolchildren about persisting and succeeding in school.” But the goal is not merely morale boosting. According to White House event-related guides developed by the U.S. Department of Education’s Teaching Fellows, grade-school students will be told to “listen to the speech” and “think about the following”:
– What is the president trying to tell me?
– What is the president asking me to do?
– What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?
Students can record important parts of the speech where the president is asking them to do something. Students might think about: What specific job is he asking me to do? Is he asking anything of anyone else? Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?
After the speech, teachers will ask students:
– What do you think the president wants us to do?
– Does the speech make you want to do anything?
– Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?
Obama’s White House Teaching Fellows include Chicago high-school educator Xian Barrett, a fierce opponent of charter schools who founded a “Social Justice Club” and bussed students to protests, and Michelle Bissonette, a Los Altos, Calif., teacher who is “focused on developing my leadership as a more culturally and racially conscious educator.”
The activist tradition of government schools using students as junior lobbyists cannot be ignored. Zealous teachers unions have enlisted captive schoolchildren as letter-writers in their campaigns for higher education spending. Out-of-control activists have enlisted their secondary-school charges in pro-illegal immigration protests, gay marriage ceremonies, environmental propaganda stunts and anti-war events.
And last year’s presidential campaign saw disgraceful abuses of power by pro-Obama instructors. In New Rochelle, N.Y., elementary students were given an in-class assignment to color in drawings of Obama — including a picture of a campaign button featuring his face and the slogan “Students for Obama 2008.” In Cumberland County, N.C., a fifth-grade teacher turned a “civics” discussion into an unhinged harangue against a girl who said her family supported John McCain.
Nor can the Democrats’ strategy of using kiddie human shields to advance their legislative agenda be overlooked in the context and timing of Obama’s speech. Children have been front and center of the left’s push for an ever-increasing government role in health care — from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s use of Baltimore seventh-grader Graeme Frost to push for the massive S-CHIP entitlement expansion to Obama’s none-too-coincidental choice of Massachusetts 11-year-old town hall questioner Julia Hall (the daughter of a prominent Obama activist and organizer who assailed Obamacare critics’ “mean” signs) to the Kennedy family’s decision to put grandson Max Allen on center stage to pray for health care reform at his uncle’s funeral last week.
So when the Department of Education directs schools to gather children ’round the TV monitors for Obama’s pep talk and then have them do this…
– Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants or puzzle pieces or trails marked with the labels: personal, academic, community, country. Each area could be labeled with three steps for achieving goals in those areas. It might make sense to focus on personal and academic so community and country goals come more readily.
– Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals.
…parents have every right to worry about their children being used as Political Guinea Pigs for Change.
American_Way
Posted September 3, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
The president should stick to trying to run this nation and addressing the adults. Please leave the unfortunate children to the teachers, liberal thou they may be.
___________________________________
Maybe Obama should just read “My Pet Goat” to the children.
Seriously, just when you think it can’t get any dumber…
I will be making crayon drawings of O’BAMA that day.
Sorry, only have white and purple crayons left in the box to use.
Inspiring our children with a message of self enrichment, exploration, and consideration of service to community?
IF there is a more worthy duty for a President, I don’t know what it would be.
Most presidents have addressed school children. This isn’t new. What is new is the culture of cruelty and lack of civility.
I have trouble imagining the influence a parent who would teach their child to disrespect the president of the United States might have on that child. Teaching hate, intolerance, fear, prejudice to a child.
I have trouble imagining that parent and what they are capable of.
I hope the CDC is monitoring this increasing mass hysteria.
The great irony is that public schools are socialist in their very nature.
What a wonderful idea to have the president talk directly to kids, such an exciting way to deliver a civics lesson.
Politico posted September 3, 2009 at 12:09 pm
What BS!
By Michelle Malkin
———————
Yes paul, Malkin writes BS.
linda. i am amazed you would make such a statement on disrespect………..what have you on the left been teaching for the last 8 years and still today?
BlueJay
Posted September 3, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink
Well, we see how the right is playing this.
I’m playing it this way. I’m going to tell my kid to notice any of his peers who remove themselves from class during the speech. These of course will be the children of cons and are to be noted as people not to be trusted.
—————————————–
Could this be the hate and intolerance you are talking about?
Hey poly,
who besides you idiots believes a word that comes out of Michelle’s vulgar mouth?
The stupidity of this uproar is so mind-numbing, I can’t wrap my mind around it. I’ve seen scum in many forms, but this, this is beneath anything I have ever seen.
Dennis
I suspect it is just a message of work hard, stay in school, etc. That’s not new, nor is it remotely objectionable, aside to a few loose nuts.
But Obama is the perpetual campaign machine – it’s hard to imagine he will not use the opportunity to drive polical goals. If so, that’s inappropriate. We’ll have to wait and see.
“Could this be the hate and intolerance you are talking about?”
Yes, I think that statement is hateful and intolerant and I question that as being a wise parenting skill.
I personally don’t hold one person accountable for the actions of another. I do hope all parents will take a long hard look at the example they set. Our children are wise and we need to remember how often they mimic us, and sometimes it isn’t what we want them to see or want them to mimic that is exactly what they will.
YellowdogLiberal
Posted September 3, 2009 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
The stupidity of this uproar is so mind-numbing, I can’t wrap my mind around it.
____________________________
Dennis,
Pull up a chair and let’s watch the Repubs run around with their hair on fire.
Oh, wait….that’s nothing new.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/02/obama_plans_televised_speech_t.html
“The administration also has enlisted top NASCAR drivers to tape public service announcements touting the importance of school, . . .”
——————–
Even NASCAR drivers will be spreading the evil socialism. /sarcasm off.
Lindainks,
Pull up a chair and bring a fire extinguisher.
I can’t wrap my mind around how much some people must fear. Because if it isn’t hate (we’re told it isn’t!) then it has to be fear. Afraid of a child listening to the President of the United States of America? That’s a person who I don’t even want to be able to understand!
I would encourage all children to cough into their folded arms, in the elbow crease.
Now children, today we are going to write about President O’BAMA. Are there any questions?
(crickets chirping)
No Johnny, you cannot take crayons from David and call that an education tax, give them back please.
Johnny, I don’t care if you think that is O’BAMA plan for government. Give the crayons back!
Johnny, no you cannot upgrade your crayon box under the ‘Clunker’ program.
Okay, you Juaristas, now let’s get down to business and start with your O’BAMA projects.
Rebecca, yes very nicely done, but that’s a picture of Bush – go stand in the corner now.
No Johnny! You may not make a picture of O’BAMA from bird droppings!
aaaAAArrrrggggg! Help! Union Rep!
I’m never averse to taking a little advice from a more experienced parent linda.
What would YOU tell your kid about the kids who get up and walk out?
Actually, I don’t have any illusions about this thing. If most kids have the same level of interest in politics as mine, this will be an hour of texting each other and messing around. The President will reach a few promising young minds, MOST of the kids won’t even pay attention and a few will make a show out of refusing to even be present.
Regular, In your scenario, which child exhibited something you were wanting to make an example of? I can see in your example the paranoia and childishness of your pretend teacher. Was your pretend teacher uses the skills you used when you taught?
To AmWay, Politico, and Blue Jay.
The acronym used by Freebird applies here.
GTFU. Seriously.
Appreciate the expressions of sanity from outlander and GMC on this non-issue.
“I will be making crayon drawings of O’BAMA that day.
“Sorry, only have white and purple crayons left in the box to use.”
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Was your pretend teacher uses the skills you used when you taught?
Come again?
We like to write English in this country.
The first thing I would think is those children are probably following their parents instructions. I expect (don’t give up hope!) that children will follow the instructions of their parents.
Now, we’re to those parents. How hateful and fearful they must be. And to instill that in their child is beyond acceptable! What did they tell their children was the reason they needed to leave?
Was your pretend teacher using the skills you used when you taught?
Wingnuts unite. The President is talking to your kids. Let’s hope he doesn’t suggest anything like working hard and (gasp) staying in school. This might lead to success or something. Wingnuts don’t want any of that. It’s just not mavericky enough.
Austrian Economist: “The great irony is that public schools are socialist in their very nature.”
So would you like to see them done away with? (serious question, by the way)
lindainks55
Posted September 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm | Permalink
Was your pretend teacher using the skills you used when you taught?
—————–
Sorry, I mostly went to High Schools assignments.
The few times I went to elementary/middle schools was to sub for the music teachers.
BTW, it’s called parody, deal with it.
The ‘publicans have a real beef here. They know that if their children actually get an education, they won’t be ‘publican anymore.
A student is prepared to watch the Presidential pep-talk to students:
http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock/flashpoints/theater/images/clockwork_big.jpg
-taken from Glenn Beck’s (Mr Paranoia Pays) imagination
And BlueJay, I would ask my child why those students left, and ask what he thought about that. You’re probably right that most the age of your son won’t think about it much at all. Maybe they should! It could be many lessons — respect for parents, respect for leaders, respect for elders, respect for experience…
There’s also the lesson of respect that is earned and respect that is demanded. Because I strongly hold that civility is a requirement of civilization and that involves behaving in a respectful way sometimes without it being earned. Not to say it isn’t a good lesson to learn about the difference!
The world has a pecking order. From the household with the parent at the head, to the neighborhood where we do stay off the old cranky man’s yard, to the workplace… We have to respect and behave with civility. When we question (and I believe we should!) we should do that in a respectful, civil way. There are times it’’s right for a child to question a parent, a child to question a teacher, an employee to question an employer. But there is also a correct and civil way to do that.
Political junkies need to stop having a kitten whenever Beck/Rush/O’Rielly says something outrageous. Remember, yesterday at least 290 million Americans didn’t hear any of it, and Sponge Bob has more influence on this country than Fox Cable News.
One last thing, BlueJay. Sometimes the lessons our child gives little thought to today is exactly what they will need later on.
Obama’s going to tell the kids to send in their parents e-mail addresses if their parents have been spreading falsehoods about National Health Insurance!
You read it here first, folks!
They should give the kids a choice, if they don’t want to watch, go to the cafeteria for an improptu study hall!
That might be the reason behind the “anti-Obama paranoia.” The spokespersons for the Republican Party today are those who make their living stirring the pot.
Maybe it’ll help if he addresses the kids on health care, they can go to their Kansan homes and help educate their parents.
Appears the ‘pubs are going into total meltdown mode. Started when they started legitimatizing all the rw fringe groups and bringing them under the ‘tea party’ umbrella.
OMG! Obama is coming to take our kids away!!!!
“Regular’s” education experience –
“… I went to elementary/middle schools to sub for music teachers.
BTW, it’s called parody.”
Yeah, I’ll buy that.
“Regular” as the substitute Professor Harold Hill.
(Without the “Think Method.”)
Monkeyhawk
Posted September 3, 2009 at 1:29 pm | Permalink
“Regular’s” education experience –
“… I went to elementary/middle schools to sub for music teachers.
BTW, it’s called parody.”
Yeah, I’ll buy that.
“Regular” as the substitute Professor Harold Hill.
(Without the “Think Method.”)
————————-
Did a lot of Behavioral Disorder class monitoring as well.
You know, the early warehousing of future Libs. :)
I have it on good authority, that subliminal messages will be transmitted all during the address!
You saw it here, first!
I’d say that above the age of 10 among boys, 95% won’t pay attention at all. His interested audience will be younger with maybe a few of the older girls paying attention. Even if he DOES have a message of enlightenment and inspiration to community service, my son will be among the many who will sit through but not hear it.
But he just might inspire some real great potential with younger kids.
Going into it, I’m going to tell my son that the President of the United States took the time to talk to him and his peers. They were important to him. I think that is a good message.
And learning anything out of it?
Well, if he DOES see anyone get up and walk out?
Well, if it’s a girl, he can probably figure she’s not a fun date.
“Regular’s” career as an educator, continued –
“Did a lot of Behavioral Disorder class monitoring.”
Obviously you were qualified.
I’m constrained to point out the potential for racial strife in this.
There will be no small number of black children who will be told that anyone who gets up and walks out is a racist. And to less an extent than they imagine, they will be right.
It’s an hour out of life that the President has chosen to spend with our young people. That’s sadly more than many parents have or are willing to give.
For anyone who would have a YOUNG child put on a show about this? I have an experience to share.
When I was in kindergarten, there was a little girl who would not stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I don’t know why. I have come since then to think it is wrong to make little children recite rote oaths.
But that is not what I had been taught. We little kids of course told our parents who told us to me mean to that little girl. Which we of course did. No one would play with her. We called her names.Children can be made to be maliciously cruel.
The little girl did not last long at the school. I have come to feel very bad about the whole thing.
Don’t make little kids into bloody chickens over one hour.
The furor by the right on this is as ridiculous as their chest thumping over emails from the White House. Apparently, the right wing of the Republican party has a problem with the President opening his mouth, and an inability to find the delete key on their computers. Hendricks was right: There ain’t no life nowhere.
I don’t disagree. Keep your kids out of your protests. If you want to keep them home for the day, fine, but don’t make a spectacle out of them.
Using your kids (and I’m talking elementary age, high schoolers can make a decision for themselves) in this manor is no different in my mind than the Phelps clans protest out front of schools.
How many kids will get sent to school wearing the confederate flag on their shirts or jeans?
Repub motto, Party, God, Family. In that order.
Re: Bluejay’s 1:56 post.
It was a very good post. As was Kia’s response.
Kids should not suffer from, or be used by, parents to make a point. This is true not only for right wing sillies who think Glenn Beck is anything other than a televised circus geek act, but for any parent who tries to use children to make their point (i.e., someone like a Michael Newdow).
For those children whose parents actually have them recuse themselves from Obama’s talk (and by the way, Obama is NOT the first president to talk to school children over television, and I don’t recall mass calls to boycott Bush), they should not be punished for their parents’ silliness, even if they echo it.
Should be: “Kids should not be used by, parents to make a point, nor should they suffer repercussions from other kids because they were used by their parents to make a point.
But other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar speeches to students
====================================================
I call shenanigans! Something about that statement doesn’t smell right.
Agnatha
Posted September 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
Austrian Economist: “The great irony is that public schools are socialist in their very nature.”
So would you like to see them done away with? (serious question, by the way)
________________________________________________
You know me Agnatha. I always want the market to take care of these types of things. If you do away with public schools, a few things change. You may think they are good or bad, but here is a list of some changes that would happen. Again, I will leave it to everyone here to decide whether it is positive or negative.
- Taxpayers will see a decrease in property taxes.
- Taxpayers will have more money in their pockets.
- Private schools will pop up all over the place.
- Prices for private school will drop due to the law of supply and demand.
- Private schools must compete for every ones dollars.
- Competition lowers prices.
- Each school will have to prove that they are the best school by producing good test scores and helping children decide where they want to go in life. Otherwise, you lose money to another school.
Like I said, these things will happen, whether or not you think they are good depends upon your beliefs, ideals, and personal experiences.
-
Wow.
“Austrian_Economist” wants a society where the community does not contribute to education.
Yeah, right. All those parents are gonna take their school tax money out of their Wranglers and dole it out to send their kids to private school.
Trailer Park Academy. That’s guaranteed to turn out a slew of Rhodes Scholars.
First of all, to Phantom’s attempt to contribute to intelligent conversation, I don’t believe that Obama’s speech to students has anything whatsoever to do with the North vs. the South in the Civil War. But good job at your weak attempt to add to the stigma that all people who oppose the leadership of the current administration must be racist.
Second of all, to those who are claiming that the main purpose of this speech is to encourage students to recognize the importance of education… Americans are not idiots and this attempt at indoctrination will not work. While I don’t believe this is “brainwashing” it obviously is more than just a “welcome back to the school year kiddos! Study hard!”
Rather than calling for our children to serve him, maybe Mr. Obama needs to remember that he was elected to serve US!
I am a bit perplexed by what you said Monkeyhawk. The community is made up of individuals pursuing their own interests.
I am failing to see where the community is not contributing? If I contribute, then isn’t that the same as saying the community is contributing?
Are you saying that the community makes up the individual and not the other way around? If that is so, then I can see where we differ and further discussions between us would be futile. Take it easy.
“But that is not what I had been taught. We little kids of course told our parents who told us to me mean to that little girl. Which we of course did. No one would play with her. We called her names.Children can be made to be maliciously cruel.”
BJ finally I understand why you are such a bitter little person. You were raised that way. My parents never told me to be mean to anyone and in fact would have punished me if I had been.
Guess the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.
BTW are you saying that parents who don’t want their children indoctrinated into Obama think have fewer rights than you did when you didn’t want your son in JRROTC with their evil military think?
I’ve even heard people who are grasping for some kind of excuse say that when Reagan spoke to school children it was because they had just seen the Challenger explode, when Bush I spoke it was because of rampant drug use — in other words when other presidents (Republican ones!) spoke directly to school children it was because there was a need. They are, of course, intimating there is no need for President Obama to do the same.
Has anyone looked at the drop out rates? Can anyone say with a straight face or an expectation of credibility that there isn’t a need to encourage children to study, stay in school, avail themselves of every learning opportunity?
It isn’t racism or hate (we’re told!), so it must be fear. An adult who is afraid for the president of the United States of America to speak to the country’s school children. What kind of adult is that, and what influence does that kind of adult have on the life of children s/he may influence?
Ya got me okie. My parents were bad.
The whole CLASS had bad parents.
“Obama think” God what a crank. And JROTC is an ongoing program that my son was inducted into with NO notification to me. This is ONE HOUR. Obama is good but I don’t think he can reverse the damage to your grandchildren in ONE hour.
“My parents never told me to be mean to anyone ”
Perhaps they realized your natural gift for it?
“Austrian_Economist” contributes –
“…The community is made up of individuals pursuing their own interests.
I am failing to see where the community is not contributing? If I contribute, then isn’t that the same as saying the community is contributing?
Are you saying that the community makes up the individual and not the other way around?”
Sorry. I’m not fluent in gibberish so I’ll answer your comments the best I can.
You originally made your case that we should pull the plug on public education. And somehow the free market will replace it with… something.
What would that be?
Then you add the classic WE Blog CON ploy: The Are you saying…?” straw man!
“Are you saying that the community makes up the individual and not the other way around?”
That would be a no. Never said anything of the sort. Your “Are you saying…?” comes totally out of nowhere.
That also would be a false dichotomy.
Short answer, though: Individuals comprise a community. Community shapes individuals. It’s not an either-or situation.
It DOES make ya wonder linda.
Can people REALLY be SO insecure in their relationship with their kids and their own core values that they are afraid one hour can reprogram their kids?
Trailer Park Academy
=====================================
I don’t think making fun of democrats is helpful.
Evidently, BlueJay!
Maybe these people are afraid their children will see and hear a reasonable man, speaking in a reasonable way and compare that to the lies and exaggerations, the hate and fear they’ve heard both from their parents and the news their parents listen to.
If Obama wants my kids to study hard and do well, I will have them do the opposite!
No studying, skip school, fail! That’ll show ‘em!
You know, David, you bring up a point!
Sometimes, when parents forbid things it becomes that forbidden thing I must try.
:-)
Wouldn’t it be just the best karma if these children of these paranoid people become Obama fans?
Dam elite studyers and achievers!
Who the heck would exploit children for political causes!!
http://www.talkleft.com/10yroldarrest.jpg
The origins of the right wing nut commentators can be found in Axis Sally, Toyko Rose and Lord Haw-Haw to whom the German American Bund and the American Firsters listened avidly. Same message, same listeners.
#
XXX
Posted September 3, 2009 at 1:26 pm | Permalink
OMG! Obama is coming to take our kids away!!!!
======================================
He came and picked up my kids this morning.
I just shook his hand and said, “Good Luck…you’re gonna need it.”
Then I slammed the door shut and locked the deadbolt.
So much for “you have to respect the dignity of the office,” eh, Hypo – CON – crites?
The Libs couldn’t make the CONs look anymore ridiculous than the CONs make themselves look.
When are you people going to put some adults in charge of your party?
Remember, CONs–
If Obama succeeds in talking to your kids about the importance of education, the communists have won . . .
GMC the faux-reasonable CON says:
But Obama is the perpetual campaign machine – it’s hard to imagine he will not use the opportunity to drive polical goals. If so, that’s inappropriate. We’ll have to wait and see.
How about if his talk to kids doesn’t “drive political goals,” you apologize for suggesting that he will?
Dick.
The great irony is that public schools are socialist in their very nature.
I got it, AusEcon! Move to a country without a gov’t that forces socialism on its people.
Somalia will embrace you with open arms . . .
“No studying, skip school, fail! That’ll show ‘em!”
Impossible. The entire class will be held back for the dumb kid. Grading scales modified to ensure all kids pass with a “C”.
No responsible teacher should present anything to their students that hasn’t been previewed first. Especially with younger elementary students.
Also, Obama could and should have taped it and then allowed school systems and teachers to decide where or not and in what context it should be shown.
Encouraging kids to stay in school and to work hard are bipartisan goals, let responsible schools and teachers decide that, not the government.
“You know me Agnatha. I always want the market to take care of these types of things.”
And again, there is a reason why no developed nation in the world have the kind of libertarian/free marketeer paradise you imagine. They not only don’t exist, they don’t work. Not everything people or an economy needs is best served by free market principles. “The market” will not provide an affordable education option for the populace of a country, and the cost of not doing so, or even attempting to do so, would far outweigh any presumed benefits.
“If you do away with public schools, a few things change. You may think they are good or bad, but here is a list of some changes that would happen. Again, I will leave it to everyone here to decide whether it is positive or negative.”
Actually, a lot of things change.
“- Taxpayers will see a decrease in property taxes.”
Interesting how you decide to list this first.
“-Taxpayers will have more money in their pockets.”
Jesus Christ. First of all, at best only in the short term. More than likely, the costs will outweigh any benefit of that sort.
“- Private schools will pop up all over the place.”
Uh huh, right. One, only for those who can pay for them. Two, unless there is a substantial increase in state or federal government regulatory infrastructure, the so-called private schools will be of widely varying quality, with many being downright fraudulent. Three, there will be many children who will not have access to school at all, particularly those who receive special education services, or who have mental illness, or who need accomodations due to health or physical disabilities. Four, some areas will not have private schools at all, because there is no profit in it. As a result, there will be entire areas of the country that will not receive any sort of educational services (public education not only involves schools and teachers, it involves transportation, substantial transportation).
What it comes down to, is that a lot of kids now in school would not be in school in your market driven privatopia, and that incurs substantial costs that will be paid by the taxpayers you think you are saving money for.
“- Private schools must compete for every ones dollars.”
False. Your shallow assumptions about how “the market” works fails to take into consideration that there will be entire areas of the country that can support one provider, if any at all.
“- Competition lowers prices.”
Only between those who offer roughly equal products, which would not be the case UNLESS there are recognizable product standards. If you are going to assume that there are such standards, that will require an increase, not a decrease, in regulatory infrastructure. Basically, you will create a system where only those who can afford quality education will get one. Despite all the criticisms directed towards public education, this is nowhere even remotely near the case now.
“- Each school will have to prove that they are the best school by producing good test scores and helping children decide where they want to go in life. Otherwise, you lose money to another school.”
Not even remotely close to reality, and I am being very kind. 1) Unless there is a government regulatory infrastructure in place, including one that either designs or certifies test scores, what you will have is a system where tests are marketed to schools, which is definitely a fox in the henhouse situation. Do you have any conception of why we have things like a Food and Drug Administration? 2) Market decisions by providers are made on the basis of more things than the quality of and primary customer satisfaction with the product. Those who worship at the free marketeer alter seem to completely overlook this reality, even when there are countless examples from deregulation. For example, look at radio, there is less diversity in format, and certainly less local service, in radio now than there was 20 years ago. Is that because this is what the customer wanted? Hardly. It was because it was cheaper for the corporate owners to eliminate local talent and purchase pre-packaged format, which in turn allows for cheaper advertisting rates. Cutting expenses often works better than customer service, and can often be done without passing the savings on to a customer. 3) Even in the existing system, test scores can be misleading as to the quality of a school. What you will have is schools competing for the students who raise the curve on their test scores. The other students, not so much, either because even if the parents pay, they lose money from other potential families whose children do not pose a risk to their test scores, or they have to spend more to help that child achieve a high test score. And again, neither the market in aggregate or in individuals are necessarily rational. Fears of hypothetical opportunity costs, for example, will color many families’ and schools’ decisions as they do now. Am I short changing my child by taking him to School A, which has a lower average score than School B even though School B has fewer teachers? Do we risk losing other potential families if we take this child with a diagnosis of learning disabilities? And then again, there will be families that either can not afford to send their children to school at all, or will have only one choice, or no choice at all because even if they can afford the tuition, they can not afford the time or cost of transporting their children to the closest school. And we will go back to past the dark ages in special education.
“Like I said, these things will happen, whether or not you think they are good depends upon your beliefs, ideals, and personal experiences.”
No, the fact that you assume these things will happen, and seem utterly unable to consider the costs of eliminating public education, reveals simply that you are so ideologically blind can not even rationally assess your premises.
The reality is this:
Eliminating public education, which revolutionized the economies and societies of developed nations around the world, would result in the following:
1) Drastic declines in education services for much of the country, resulting in drastic reductions in high school graduates, much less college students.
2) One would assume, if you would eliminate public education because it is socialist in favor of private, “market based” education for primary and secondary schools, you would also do so for public universities as well. This means far less diversity in professional fields, and a return to the apprenticeships of the 18th and early 19th centuries that had substantial flaws (which is why they were abandoned in favor of increases in universities). By the way, the large number of high quality universities this country has is one of the few competitive advantages we as a country still retain in the 21st Century. However, by scrapping a public education system, say goodbye to that.
3) We will return to warehousing people with disabilites. We will also return to the sort of underclass that existed in cities around the country in the 19th century.
4) These drastic declines in educated people will result in drastically increased costs to taxpayers in the enormous loss of goods, services, and infrastructure. You can not educate an entire populace with a private, free market system. The only way you can attempt it is for the public sector to mandate it and pay for it.
This is basic reality. You think my premises are faulty? The difference is, AE, your ideal privatopia has never existed. Ever. The world I describe, on the other hand, has existed, and it was widespread public education and other public initiatives that took us out of it.
Should be: “No, the fact that you assume these things will happen, and seem utterly unable to consider the costs of eliminating public education, reveals simply that you are so ideologically blind that you can not even rationally assess your premises.”
The ‘jawless fish’ claims that the socialist American schools can exist without free market taxes to support them.
The White House will release the pep-talk to students in a few days for inspection and right wing ridicule.
RE: Regular
DNF…Nope. That was so lame, that it’s not even worth it.
“Short answer, though: Individuals comprise a community. Community shapes individuals. It’s not an either-or situation.” [Monkeyhawk]
ummm… Monkey… CONS have a major problem understand Gestalt thinking processes… They just dont get it…
Re: Agnatha
This isn’t a college class, no need to write a paper.
Boxlock20
Posted September 3, 2009 at 7:09 pm | Permalink
No responsible teacher should present anything to their students that hasn’t been previewed first.
————
WTF
Teachers are professionals, they will do what is right in regards to using this speech as a teachable moment. The speech is a simple lesson in civics.
You republicans are trying to make something out of nothing.
Some of you people are just plain nuts.
Just ask yourself if the level of education in this country is better or not after all these years of public education.
To each his own I always say. Education is not for everyone. Trying to act like we are all equal in that regard is unfortunate.
Agnatha, you’ve never seen a free market in your life. How do you know they don’t “work”? What works? Markets are just you and I, and everyone else. Nothing mythical about how it works. Humans act and that is all we know.
The market is perfect because it is you and me doing what we want. If you infringe upon someone elses liberties, you are wrong and should be punished.
Only government interference creates the kind of distortions you speak of. Monopoly can only be created when a government interferes in the market.
Just ask yourself if the level of education in this country is better or not after all these years of public education.
To each his own I always say. Education is not for everyone. Trying to act like we are all equal in that regard is unfortunate.
Agnatha, you’ve never seen a free market in your life. How do you know they don’t “work”? What works? Markets are just you and I, and everyone else. Nothing mythical about how it works. Humans act and that is all we know.
The market is perfect because it is you and me doing what we want. If you infringe upon someone elses liberties, you are wrong and should be punished.
Only government interference creates the kind of distortions you speak of. Monopoly can only be created when a government interferes in the market.
Just ask yourself if the level of education in this country is better or not after all these years of public education.
To each his own I always say. Education is not for everyone. Trying to act like we are all equal in that regard is unfortunate.
Agnatha, you’ve never seen a free market in your life. How do you know they don’t “work”? What works? Markets are just you and I, and everyone else. Nothing mythical about how it works. Humans act and that is all we know.
The market is perfect because it is you and me doing what we want. If you infringe upon someone elses liberties, you are wrong and should be punished.
Only government interference creates the kind of distortions you speak of. Monopoly can only be created when a government interferes in the market.
“You republicans are trying to make something out of nothing.”—Blaidd_
We know whence it comes from and have good reason to be cautious. The author would like to make good little socialists out of all of them.
What’d be really funny is for President Obama to encourage the children to pressure their parents to support carbon taxes, and other global warming policies.
The right-wing-nut AGW science deniers would go crazy attacking that.
Boxlock20
Posted September 3, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Permalink
“You republicans are trying to make something out of nothing.”—Blaidd_
We know whence it comes from and have good reason to be cautious. The author would like to make good little socialists out of all of them.
————–
Paranoia.
I pledge to be of service to Barack O’BAMA (kiss biceps)
no really, that’s in the video!
(The subtle propagandizing by the OBAMATRONS.
Starting and ending with the Che Guevera style art at the beginning and ending of the video – this is what will be shown on September 8th in classrooms to children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcPA1ysSbw
“Paranoia.”—Blaidd_
It ain’t paranoia if they are actually after ya.
Just look at his record, it speaks the truth….NOT his mouth.
I imagine his ‘message’ will be, or at least sound, very innocuous….this first time around. Especially since he knows he is under the microscope.
(The subtle propagandizing by the OBAMATRONS.
Starting and ending with the Che Guevera style art at the beginning and ending of the video – this is what will be shown on September 8th in classrooms to children.
===================================================
Actually, the video says the same thing JFK asked, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”
I would rather be an “Obamatron”, than a whiner who does nothing but complain. And I seriously doubt Regular has any advanced knowledge as to what Obama’s message to the children of this country will be. Unless his soup is spiked, or his tin foil hat is pointed just right.
Just a thought…maybe instead of another “civics lesson”, since the majority of history taught is based on government, and there’s a whole class required on civics…what if they did something crazy like spent an hour on free market principles? Maybe at least suggest a list of free market priciple books they should read and not just all books about Presidents.
For years, GW couldn’t wave without getting hate mail; this blog oozed hatred for him. Now it is the other way…I don’t think either side is right..but that won’t change a thing. the polarity of partisan hatred will not accomplish anything.
too bad it is perpetuated by so many here. There is absolutely nothing in this world that is purely good or purely evil. but..that is not the way it is seen by people who are blinded by their own myopic hatred.
Okay, I get it. You cons don’t want “socialized” medicine. So, we’ll go ahead and pass it, and make it applicable only to registered Democrats. ‘Publicans can pay for their own damn medical care or roll over and die.
Go fer it Jed. I pray you do.
You’ve still got your die hard liberal base. But you’ve lost the independents, Bush hating republicans, and just about every other population group Obama has pi$$ed off.
Shove that healthcare down our throats.
I am really hoping you do.
Because while you are living your dream world – the rest of us woke up and realize:
OBAMA SUCKS!!!
Imagine a teeter-totter.
Die hard libs are all fighting to sit on their end. Con’s are balanced on the other….balanced and no winner.
Then, the independents step over on one side…..
Please pass:
Obamacare
Cap & Tax
Do it as fast as humanely possible. Don’t stop to debate or even read the legislation. Ram it through.
Please God.
humanly maybe.
Amway,
Bush hating republicans? Isn’t that a new species that was first discovered under the McCain/Palin bumperstickers when they were scraped off the day after the election? And it should be obvious even to the blindest of the Bush-babies where the sentiments of the independents lie. You lost bigtime. Get over it and crawl back under the sink where you belong!
American_Way posted September 3, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Please pass:
Obamacare
Cap & Tax
Do it as fast as humanely possible. Don’t stop to debate or even read the legislation. Ram it through.
Please God.
—————————–
Quickly passing carbon caps, carbon taxes, etc is a good idea.
‘Warming Arctic’s global impacts outstrip predictions‘
http://www.panda.org/wwf_news/?173262/Warming-Arctics-global-impacts-outstrip-predictions
“Warming in the Arctic could lead to flooding affecting one quarter of the world’s population, substantial increases in greenhouse gas emissions from massive carbon pools, and extreme global weather changes, according to a new WWF report.
. . .
The report shows that numerous arctic climate feedbacks – negative effects prompted by the impacts of warming — will make global climate change more severe than indicated by other recent projections, including those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2007 assessment.”
BFD,
Free market principles? An oxymoron if I ever heard one!
Besides, there’s never been a free market in the world that lasted more than the ten minutes it took someone to figure out how to game it. Free markets are at least as dead an issue as marxism- at least marxism was tried before it failed!
School districts in six states are refusing to show President Obama’s upcoming back-to-school speech to students, set to air next Tuesday on CSPAN, after schools were inundated with angry calls from parents. While the speech aims to encourage students to work hard and stay in school, critics accuse the White House of forcing a political agenda on children. “As far as I am concerned, this is not civics education—it gives the appearance of creating a cult of personality,” said Oklahoma State Sen. Steve Russell. The suggested lesson plan that accompanied the speech originally asked students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.” Obama administration officials removed that exercise after critics complained. Schools aren’t required to broadcast the speech, and districts in Texas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia and Wisconsin have decided not to show it. Some Republicans, egged on by conservative pundits, are urging schools and parents to boycott the address on Tuesday. President George H.W. Bush made a similar address to students in 1991.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ib8qja0qqnnbZFsHF7kP6GV9XVfQD9AG43GO0
Texas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia and Wisconsin have decided not to show…
My my, O’BAMA’s home state not showing the video.
So, you still think the McCarthy like-naziism is too strong of a comparison?
This has got to stop. We have to take the country back from the right wing militants.
schools were inundated with angry calls from parents
—————————————-
Just a thought,why aren’t the obamaites drowing out the negative calls with calls of their own.
Personally if all he talks about is the importance of getting an education,no gripe from me.However he is a politician,so I will remain skeptical.
Why in the entire world would anyone do that, Freebird? If these parents want to inundate wherever with their angry calls, why would anyone want to get in their way? So they would have something more to complain about, to be afraid of, to hate?
Political_mama
Posted September 3, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink
This has got to stop. We have to take the country back from the right wing militants
——————————————-
I thought that had already happened
American_Way
Posted September 3, 2009 at 9:14 pm | Permalink
Imagine a teeter-totter.
Die hard libs are all fighting to sit on their end. Con’s are balanced on the other….balanced and no winner.
Then, the independents step over on one side
—————————————-
That’s what people on both sides should be concerned about
I’m sure this paranoia looks inviting to rational people whether they are Republican, Democratic or Independent in their political philosophy.
/off sarcasm
Freebird, it has happened… The CONS are still in denial that they lost… Sort of like the self-centered guy who, when diagnosed with cancer, proclaimed right up to the end, that HE could never get cancer!!
May he (and the CONS) rest in peace!!
We have one president of the United States of America at a time. If someone wants to bit ch, complain, be afraid during that entire term — it’s a damn good thing they live in American where that is possible!
“what if they did something crazy like spent an hour on free market principles?”
Kids will get exposes to the “free” market soon enough. I can barely keep my own kid protected from it as it is.
I’ll say it again. If you cons are SO insecure in your beliefs that an hour terrifies you, the coming progressive revolution will NOT be something you will endure let alone enjoy.
lindainks55
Posted September 3, 2009 at 10:15 pm | Permalink
We have one president of the United States of America at a time. If someone wants to bit ch, complain, be afraid during that entire term — it’s a damn good thing they live in American where that is possible!
—————————————-
Linda, Good point,Griping about a sitting president is an American pass time You can bet if Jesus was prez there would be a certain percentage that would beatch about the job he was doing.
Lets just hope we don’t see it dissapear
Linda,
I think it is fair to say there are those on both sides that would like dissent aimed towards “their” president be silenced
“I think it is fair to say there are those on both sides that would like dissent aimed towards “their” president be silenced”
Why?
If someone has a complaint, they get to air it. That’s as it should be! Everyone else gets to judge the validity of their complaint. That’s also as it should be.
I’m positive there are many Americans looking at those who would complain that the president will give a speech directed to school children, others are looking at the town-hall disruptors who won’t allow every question and concern to be heard, still others are wondering about “the birthers” and others might be scratching their heads at why in the world anyone should die because they cannot afford health care, and someone should go broke because they get sick.
I’ll admit that I couldn’t waste my time reading all of the posts here, but has anybody snapped to the fact that USD259 children have the day off on Tuesday?
American_Way
Posted September 3, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
Imagine had Bush tried this
–
Actually, AMWAY – if you woule read and comprehend the topic thread – George H.W. Bush did try this and did do his speech to the the children.
So are you saying Daddy Bush was a brainwasher?
mopar – good point – but let’s not confuse the CONS with facts – that would just make their heads explode!
Regular
Posted September 3, 2009 at 9:55 pm | Permalink
Texas, Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri, Virginia and Wisconsin have decided not to show…
My my, O’BAMA’s home state not showing the video
–
Obviously you don’t know Illinois politics very well, do you Reggie?
I’m from there and believe me – there are Conservative Republicans there that would think you were a flaming Liberal – and I do mean flaming.
“Education is not for everyone” -Austrian_Economist
WTF?????
“Just ask yourself if the level of education in this country is better or not after all these years of public education.”
I am going to be blunt here, AE. This is a silly question. Of course the level of education in this country is better after “all these years of public education”. Education is an option that can be rejected (after a certain age), but offered to all. If it wasn’t public, education would not be universally available. The more widely available public education has become, post secondary as well as secondary and primary, the better educated our populace has become. Yes, we suffer in comparison with other developed countries, but we suffer in comparison with other countries with public education systems and universally available public education. Special education is a good example. I remember what it was like before Public Law 94-182 (the original IDEA) was passed, where it was luck of the draw as to whether children with developmental disabilities would go to a school at all (and in Wichita, we have a large number of adults with dd because we had one of the few schools that took kids with substantial dd, The Institute of Logopedics, now Heartspring. The idea that we would have anywhere near the number of high school graduates, much less college graduates, if we had no public schools is absurd, and that is being kind.
“To each his own I always say. Education is not for everyone. Trying to act like we are all equal in that regard is unfortunate.”
That’s a straw man. Arguing for public education does not mean that someone is offering that “we are all equal in that regard”, not even close. Two, you assume that privatizing education would simply separate those who want or can use an education from those who would not is strikingly naive. Because removing the mandate removes universal accessibility and replaces it with “market forces” that would make the costs of accessing education widely disproportinate throughout the country. That’s reality.
“Agnatha, you’ve never seen a free market in your life. How do you know they don’t “work”? What works? Markets are just you and I, and everyone else. Nothing mythical about how it works. Humans act and that is all we know.”
You know AE, I like you, I really do. However, you are a philosophical absolutist, and you don’t seem to understand that this is not all or nothing. History is full of examples of unregulated and regulated markets within the same country. We had “freeer” markets in the 19th Century, and the result was child labor, food with poison and poisons sold with medicine, widespread legal sweatshops, and poverty on a scale that, despite the supposed failure of “liberal” welfare policies, was much more widespread than it is today. And history also provides evidence of what happens when some industries are deregulated. Customer service in the name of competitiveness does not necessarily improve. Sometimes, in fact, quite the opposite. Winners in free(er) markets are those who make the most money and corner most of the market. That can be often be done by cutting costs and services more easily than by winning customer loyalty. There is no reason, none whatsover, to believe that going to “pure” free markets would do anything more than make this sort of free for all environment more widespread. To say otherwise, in the face of lack of evidence, is just stubborn faith.
And the market is more than just “you” and “I”, it is an aggregation of people and entities (companies), either acting in their self interests or in what they perceive to be their self interests, or in the interests of others who are important to them. And those interests are not only often in competition, but there is no equality between those who pursue their interests. Those who have the gold, or the product, make the rules. Those who have the “freedom” to design their business practices without “interference” from the public sector can create virtual slavery. It’s happened in every unregulated economy in history. Like Capn America said, you want to see an essential privatopia, then look at something like Somalia.
And by the way, the alternative to totally “free markets” is not simply socialism or tyranny. Things exist on a continuum. Not everything in our economy would respond best to “market forces”.
“The market is perfect because it is you and me doing what we want. If you infringe upon someone elses liberties, you are wrong and should be punished.”
This is where hard core libertarians don’t get it. Punishing the “infringement” of liberties requires a substantial government infrastructure, it requires definition of liberties and the biggest level of government. Otherwise, you have situations such as those that existed throughout the south in particular, but also elsewhere, like sundown towns were African Americans could not live, much less “peacibly assemble”. This practice ended, or at least was functionally and greatly reduced, by a federal government exercising its authority over states and localities. By privatizing education, you guarantee that there will be people in some regions of the country who will not have access to education, and therefore will not be educated, and therefore will not have even remotely the same opportunities their city dwelling cousins have (and then again, that would be their wealthy city dwelling cousins). The idea of dismantling a federal government to create a libertarian privatopia where rights are protected is, to put it kindly, self defeating. Furthermore, the “market” is not perfect except in your dreams, because that is what your “market” is. A dream. A hyopthetical idealization. To argue with it, since it doesn’t exist, is like trying to argue against the perfection of Superman with a true believer. Your perfect free market assumes that everyone is equally free to pursue their own interests. However, that sort of freedom depends on a level playing field, and in the real world, people are not on an even playing field in any system. However, those that come closer to at least leveling the playing field so that everyone has maximum opportunity to pursue their interests do so because they have laws that require that the playing field be leveled, and a government infrastructure to enforce such levelization. Reduced rules in some fields of endeavor result not in freedom for everyone to pursue their interests, but in increased inequities where those who control the resources control access to the opportunities for others to pursue their interests. There is no reason to assume that these sort of inequities would disappear if the market was rendered “truly” free. Quite the opposite. And nothing potentially levels the playing field so that people can pursue their own interests more than access to education. There are problems with our education system, but the idea that they can be solved by eliminating public education and privatizing it betrays a completely lack of understanding of not only what the nature of those problems are, but of what public education has done for this country.
How long did it take CONs to go from: “if you criticize the President you are a traitor” to “School children should not trust the President?”
There are a small number of people in this country who decided they were in opposition to President Obama and his administration before he even took office. We see that in what they protest, and how they protest! It’s a statement about them, not about President Obama. They just aren’t smart enough to realize that!
New poll numbers out this morning prove that although President Obama has falling approval ratings, that drop in the polls has not made the Republican Party more popular than the Democrats. Like we’ve been saying all along. We who support President Obama have expressed out disapproval and will continue to do so on issues important to us — like making sure no one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick.
BeeJob whines (whats new?)………Kids will get exposes to the “free” market soon enough. I can barely keep my own kid protected from it as it is.
——————–
Yeah, beejob, sooner or later your kids will find out if you work hard, you don’t have to wait around with your hand out. They will have things like normal people, they will be able to do things like normal people. They won’t have to hate people that work hard. I hope they buy their own lunch.
they WILL feel sorry for you though.
The boy’s job is school, not getting you your Big Mac with extra gravy.
Blue Jay,
A few days ago you claimed it was ok for your son to be exposed to alcohol before he left home. My question is why are you ok with him experimenting with that but you do not want to him to experience the free market,just remember some day in the not too distant future if he hasn’t already, he will be seeing things through his own eyes and developing his own view, which may or may not agree with yours
My question to you Blue Jay is what are you going to to do if that day comes when your son doesn’t agree with you?
If he becomes a Republican he would be dead to me.
“that day comes when your son doesn’t agree with you?”
THAT day came a long time ago. He’s a teenager. That day is every day. I didn’t expect any different.
But there are limits.
Nice to know you can express unconditional love for your offspring.
BlueJay
Posted September 4, 2009 at 11:13 am | Permalink
“that day comes when your son doesn’t agree with you?”
THAT day came a long time ago. He’s a teenager. That day is every day. I didn’t expect any different
—————————————————-
Just from my own experience, the day I realized my 2 weren’t going to see eye to eye with me was the day our relationship changed for the better. By no means do we agree on most things but the respect that has developed due to differing views has taken my father child relationship to a new level. Of course it hurts a little when they don’t do what I think is best but it does not in anyway diminish my fdeeling for them or them for me. They are their own people and I’m proud of that.
BlueJay, A person can be a Republican without being the hateful scum of the earths we read here at this blog. In fact, before the goals of social conservatism and America dominating militarily (neocons) took over, the Republican Party helped keep our government in balance and the two dominant parties often shared in compromises that benefited all Americans. It hasn’t always been the way it is since Reagan. I agree completely that mean, disgusting, and lack of any ideas describes the Republican ideals of today, but our country is best when there are at least two parties bringing ideas to the table and adding some accountability to the political process. I hope those who remember what put the ‘grand’ in The Grand Ole Party are able to wrest back the control they gave the fringe elements — it will be good for America.
Besides! Next year we need a whole big batch of registered Republicans to help decide who is the Republican nominee in the Senate Race between Moran and Tiahrt! :-)
Just got an email from my sons’ principal (unsolicited by the way).
The school district does not have a stance (big surprise.)
The school will not be holding an all school assembly to show the speech.
Individual teachers my choose to do so in their classrooms as part of their social studies unit.
I think that was an excellent position.
Linda. What I would love to see is the Independents and moderates make their voices heard. I think they are the ones who could control who gets elected.
Did anyone say viewing the speech was mandatory? Did they?
Some people have their panties in a wad for nothing.
Would the mad right accept the same speech if given by Rush? Oh, hell yes.
“What I would love to see is the Independents and moderates make their voices heard. I think they are the ones who could control who gets elected.”
They already do.
btw, they don’t make the news, but they decide elections.
Predestined
Posted September 4, 2009 at 11:54 am | Permalink
Did anyone say viewing the speech was mandatory? Did they?
Some people have their panties in a wad for nothing.
—————————————————-
Your panties sound a little wodded.
Academic for Wichita.
School is not in session Tuesday. My son WILL watch the speech and he WILL do the paper work. I’m going to insist on it.
“btw, they don’t make the news, but they decide elections.”
I need to clarify and modify that statement — they decide elections at the national level.
I’m hopeful that the louder, meaner, more ridiculous the fringes get (hard to believe it could get worse than it is now) they will look so stupid and unappealing the more moderate Americans will have a greater impact at the state levels.
I’m hopeful that the louder, meaner, more ridiculous the fringes get (hard to believe it could get worse than it is now) they will look so stupid and unappealing the more moderate Americans will have a greater impact at the state levels
————————————
For this moderate the fringes on both sides look exactly what you said,stupid and unappealing.
“Only government interference creates the kind of distortions you speak of. Monopoly can only be created when a government interferes in the market.”
This is flat out false, unless you confuse “the company store” with the government doing the distortion. Seriously, when you take Austrian Economics from a school of thought in a behavioral science to the basis of an absolute libertarian belief system, you take it out of the realm of reality entirely.
At least it won’t be a controversy the same way in Wichita since the schools are closed for inservice.