Columnist and best-selling author Thomas Friedman doesn’t support cap-and-trade legislation merely because of climate-change concerns. Friedman sees it as key to keeping us from being “laggards in the next great global industry.” Friedman wrote that China is already focusing on energy efficiency and clean power systems. “And when China starts to do that in a big way _ when it starts to develop solar, wind, batteries, nuclear and energy efficiency technologies on its low-cost platform _ watch out,” Friedman said. “You won’t just be buying your toys from China. You’ll be buying your energy future from China.”
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61 Comments
Because of the U.S. stimulus program which borrows billions, perhaps trillions, from China … its just a matter of time until our U.S. President reports directly to the Premier of China.
To turn things around, it’s time for Americans to roll up their sleeves and go back to work.
Stop borrowing at all levels.
Cancel credit cards.
Stop recreational use of computers at work which is approaching 80% of work time.
Stop government growth and implement a reduction in government spending at all levels.
Prohibit any government or business from paying health insurance benefits to employees. Make every person responsible for their own health insurance most likely through voluntary cooperatives. This would bring competition to health care.
Your suggestions …
What people generally don’t realize about china is each time they put a new coal-fired power plant on line, they retire several older, more-polluting plants. They are going to solve their energy problems, and become number one in energy efficiency, if they don’t have a peasant revolt first.
“What people generally don’t realize about china is each time they put a new coal-fired power plant on line, they retire several older…”
Do you have a link for the retiring part?
I am finding a lot about better plants but nothing about retiring older plants.
Of course we should be a lot more like China in every way!
They are very worried about AGW and all their new plants are green!
How many wind farms do they have? The technolgy is available.
How many nuclear power electric generating plants do they have? The technology is available.
How many commercial grade solar electrical generating stations do they have? The technology is available.
How many of their new coal fired electrical generating plants are capturing the carbon? The technology is available.
The answer to all the questions is none.
The U.S. has given industries away, we have to develop the ‘next big idea’, or we’ll be left empty handed.
Of course if we develop it, or ‘trading partner’ will just steal it from us.
Why do we buy our toys from China now?
We can build toys just as good in the US.
It’s freaking cheaper with the slave labor.
Same thing with energy. If the playing field is level, they’ll always beat us on cost with a billion people being “paid” if you can even call it that slave wages.
Do you have a link for the retiring part?
____________________________________________
Hear it is.
http://www.makingstuffup.com
“The U.S. has given industries away, we have to develop the ‘next big idea’, or we’ll be left empty handed.” – (Phantom)
___________
That’s the point, the only way it works is if you create the technology first, then implement it. You don’t mandate, buy & implement technology and then bet on the come that “someone” will figure out how to make it the “next big idea”.
Well, we could do what we always do. Wait for China to do all the hard work on inventing new technologies, then we improve on their idea, make it better, and mass market it to the world at undercut prices.
We weren’t the first to send a human into space, but we we’re the first to put a man on the moon.
China doesn’t innovate anything. We develop the technology and we either sell it to China or move the manufacturing process to China so they learn how to develop the technology.
China is a superpower only because America and European nations threw billions at their feet for cheap labor.
Maggot, you’re as pathetic as the Cons. Of course China innovates. As long as we’re stuffed full of this crap about how America is better than everyone else when we’re not, the world is going to continue to stomp us into jelly.
fleettwood
Posted July 8, 2009 at 8:27 am | Permalink
Do you have a link for the retiring part?
____________________________________________
Hear it is.
http://www.makingstuffup.com
****************************************************************
Your link didn’t work fleet. You just make that up or what?
Kind of ironic that Friedman can say with a straight face that China is on a path towards clean and renewable energy when they are aggressively pursuing long term oil projects in Africa, southeast Asia, and Venezuela.
Chinese companies are pursuing solar panel market share from developoing countries who are subsidizing the whole industry with taxpayer dollars. What about the market from their own country? Not so much.
It’s a win-win for them. They make expensive energy products that consumers in Europe and USA want because they are trendy, while the Chinese gobble up the stuff that actually makes economic sense and everyone else pretends they don’t need.
RFL, sounds like you summed it up right there.
Very well said. . .
‘Can I Clean Your Clock?‘
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html
Your link didn’t work fleet. You just make that up or what?
___________________________________
Oops! Try this instead.
http://www.solistoofunny.com
‘Can I Clean Your Clock?‘
cosmo’s gay code
Fleetwood, you’re links suck.
http://www.belowme.com
Of course Thomas Friedman is an idiot. All one has to know about China and pollution can be learned by Googling ‘China pollution’.
China = worst polluter in the world
Friedman = dumbest columnist for the NYT
Brownlee = left-wing Kool-Aid drinker
From the LA Times:
The government’s acknowledgment of the problem is a victory for environmentalists, who say the rate of defects is highest in coal-producing regions.
By Barbara Demick
February 02, 2009
Reporting from Beijing — Chinese officials told the state media that birth defects are increasing at an alarming rate and that a major reason was degradation of the environment.
From China Daily:
Water, air pollution in China still serious(Xinhua)
PrintMailSHANGHAI — Lakes, rivers and the air in many places in China are still polluted, some seriously, in spite of continuous efforts to control pollution, a Chinese environmental official said Tuesday.
Pollution in 28 major lakes, such as the Taihu Lake and the Dianchi Lake, remained serious, with the quality of almost 40 percent of the water was at level VI.
Waters in urban regions were also facing serious pollution, with 90 percent of river water and half of underground water polluted.
Let’s be like China.
____________________________________________
URUMQI, China – Hundreds of helmeted troops in riot gear swarmed the central square of the capital of western Xinjiang on Wednesday after ethnic riots left at least 156 dead. The city’s Communist Party boss promised those behind the killings would be executed.
And when China starts to do that in a big way _ when it starts to develop solar, wind, batteries…
I grow ill at the thought of the Chinese development of wind.
The possibilities of ill wind passing through a harbor on the ocean barge Pullmyfinger makes me want to reach for the ‘Beano’ and the spray can of ‘Glade.’
Thread topic (reminder):
U.S. needs to keep up with China on energy innovation
fleettwood,
Thank you for proving one of Friedman’s points.
“Kind of ironic that Friedman can say with a straight face that China is on a path towards clean and renewable energy when they are aggressively pursuing long term oil projects in Africa, southeast Asia, and Venezuela.”
_________
RFL – not to mention their longterm deal with Russia to build pipelines connecting their oil/gas fields to China with longterm fixed pricing that’s well below “market” levels.
Must be because they’re building so many windmill farms, commercial scale solar facilities, ethanol plants, etc….
Oil is good!
An oil rig employs 25 people at $50,000/year each.
“An oil rig employs 25 people at $50,000/year each.”
But are they UNION?
Does anyone think oil will really ever peak? Or is it just a gimmick to raise the prices on the thought of scarcity? We’re already making more fuel efficient cars because of this, and pollution. Is carbon dioxide really that bad for the environment since trees and plants use it, and in turn expel oxygen? I imagine the carbon dioxide isn’t good for us, but couldn’t we just plant more trees, and use a cheaper more renewable source for paper, fiber, and building materials, like hemp? That can be crow densely 2-3 times a year. With fiber stronger than trees and cotton. Seems like things are being overly complicated. I’m sure the simple solutions, are the best solutions. Any green solutions other people are proposing, seem to actually so more harm to the environment and waste more resources to supposedly produce some of these green solutions people are proposing. Like fuel cells, and wind turbines.
But are they UNION?
__________________________________
Good question. I don’t know. I would suppose so.
Hud
Posted July 8, 2009 at 11:06 am | Permalink
“An oil rig employs 25 people at $50,000/year each.”
But are they UNION?
—————————————————-
I think they are.
I lived in a very oil rich community at one time and had a friend that worked for a supplier to the fields. He couldn’t take supplies out of his truck to the field. Union rules.
But are they UNION?
Unless they are wildcatters. Some welders and machinists are union, unsure about the riggers and roughnecks.
Freidman can go to China for all I care. Right now the G-8 leaders are trying to rip us off on climate changes. There is no global warming, what if it was global cooling, then would they care so much.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31792616/ns/world_news-europe/
Don’t forget China’s exploring for oil off the coast of Cuba!
“But are they union?”
Unions aren’t that prevalent in the oil/gas producer areas, except in some drilling rig operators (most producers don’t own their own drilling rigs, they hire them).
Unions are a little more prevalent in the steelworkers & pipefitters arena (ie Todd Palin) and some in refinery workers. But they’ve never been able to dominate the industry like they did in auto/steel/teachers.
That’s what’s interesting about the green energy propaganda..how involved the unions are in trying to make sure they get in on the ground floor. Don’t know if anyone else noticed the “Blue/Green Alliance” infotainment that ran in the Eagle Jan 9, ‘09 in an article titled “Primed for Wind Energy” (searched for it, but couldn’t find it on-line). In the union rag “Plaindealer” they listed out several other orgs involved in the Alliance. Here’s the alliance’s website (weird, SEIU shows up again…guess hotel/restaurant/etc workers have a stake in energy now too….)
http://www.bluegreenalliance.org/about_us/organizations
U.S. needs to keep up with China on energy innovation
Don’t forget China’s exploring for oil off the coast of Cuba!
So should we. Heard there was a large hydrocarbon find off the (gulf) coast of Florida.
Bet the dim-libs and greenies will schit themselves if obama gets the cajones to allow drilling.
I agree with Friedman, but “just our toys from China”?? Uh, right, Tom.
How about “most of our products as well as a healthy chunk of the funding for our federal government”?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/07/us-needs-to-keep-up-with-china-on-energy-innovation/comment-page-1/#comment-616577
Just as an FYI, if you buy fish, find out where it came from.
Today’s news on the lack of progress and the root cause in putting up Wind Turbines in America:
Developers last year invested $17 billion in new U.S. wind capacity, according to the AWEA, enough to generate 8,545 megawatts of electricity, which has the potential to meet the needs of 6.8 million typical American homes.
The group estimated that at least 5,000 megawatts of new wind capacity would be built this year, meaning the amount of new wind development in the United States could decline for the first time since 2004, when the expiration of a tax credit caused a sharp drop in the number of new turbines installed.
Construction has ground to a near halt as developers wait for the Obama administration — which has said green jobs and alternative energy will be a key part of its $787 billion stimulus package — to deliver on promises that include allowing companies who build wind farms to collect tax credits quickly
http://finance.yahoo.com
You mean to tell me tax cuts work???
Whoda thunk it?
Sol – the “Destin Dome” find has been around for a long time. Lots of scandal. Funny thing is, the Bush bros were the one’s that put a stake in the project’s heart to pander to enviros. Since Bush in “big oil’s” pocket and all….
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3159/is_7_223/ai_n27576748/
“U.S. needs to keep up with China on energy innovation”.
It should be: U.S. needs to keep up with China on socialism. That’s the real motive behind “cap-and-trade”. It’s redistribution of wealth.
Goracle told a group at Oxford today that if you don’t buy into global warming, you’re worse than Hitler…so let’s see what Hitler had to say….
In Meinkampf, Hitler says “The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims of a big lie than a small one.”
In Richard Evans book, “Coming Of The Third Reich”, pg 168, “Hitler wrote that “all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand”. He argued that good propaganda speaks to feelings and not reason, and that “it should never admit a glimmer of doubt in its own claims, or concede the tiniest element of right in the claims of the other side.”
Huh, those strategies sound awfully familiar…
Peabody coal. . .
‘Republicans Cribbing from Big Coal?‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/republicans-cribbing-big-coal
cosMo thinks his his Nazi-style socialist propaganda blog is credible.
Too funny….
‘House GOP circulating anti–climate bill document created by coal lobby‘
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-18-gop-circulating-coal-doc/
If it makes you feel any better Cos, those quotes I included above are from a lib, GOP bashing book by Naomi Wolf called “The End of America”….yeah, I read both sides, you know, context.
Good thing “desmogblog” is an unbiased source. :)
DFB posted July 8, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Good thing “desmogblog” is an unbiased source.
—————————
Yes, it is good to have accurate and credible sources like DeSmogBlog.
Cos – good thing sarcasm is beyond your realm of comprehension. Maybe they should come up with something more sciency sounding than “desmogblog” if they want to be taken as an “accurate and credible source”. Didn’t they learn anything from progressives? It’s all about the marketing, content be damned!
But, according to your logic, let’s apply some more of that context thing you like avoid. If the “coal lobby” document is evil because they’ve got personal motives…what’s Gore again? Weird, he’s made a couple hundred million off speeches & his GIM company’s bet the house on Chicago/London carbon trading exchanges/mandated green energy…huh, weird, apparently your other Chosen One’s personal motivations are pure as angel pee…and it weren’t for AGW propaganda he’d be a washed up politician…gee, if I didn’t know better, I’d think you’re blinded by BIAS.
DFB,
Are you claiming that the PowerPoint file properties were hacked?
‘Republicans Cribbing from Big Coal? ‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/republicans-cribbing-big-coal
Can you refute any of the information in the ppt doc cosmo? Or is this your typical – this is inconvenient information that hurts my religion. I can’t refute any of it, so I will just attack the source – meme?
soldevvb posted July 9, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Can you refute any of the information in the ppt doc cosmo?
———————-
Read about the CBO report.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/07/us-needs-to-keep-up-with-china-on-energy-innovation/#comment-616891
A line at the bottom of the document reads, “Based on Energy Information Administration (EIA) and Congressional Budget Office (CBO) data”—but there’s no indication of the particular studies used.
So, no, you can’t refute anything. Par for your course.
soldevvb posted July 9, 2009 at 2:48 pm
So, no, you can’t refute anything.
———————–
Anonymous studies from the fossil-fuel industry don’t need to be refuted.
Thank you for proving my 2:48 post.
“DFB,
Are you claiming that the PowerPoint file properties were hacked?” (Cosmo)
______________
Give you credit, your deflection knows no bounds, but…
No, I’m saying Goracle is a HACK and those who suggest he’s the modern equivalent of the MLK of the earth are HACKS. I’m saying HACKS say things like “Anonymous studies from the fossil-fuel industry don’t need to be refuted.” when presented with the statement above it “Based on Energy Information Administration (EIA) and Congressional Budget Office (CBO) data”—”
DFB,
I thought you were claiming that DeSmogBlog was not an credible source, re the coal industry PPT file.