NPR and Fox News contributor Juan Williams wrote a Washington Post obituary for affirmative action, which he declared dead at age 45. He pointed to the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in the New Haven, Conn., firefighters case, saying it “cut the last legal underpinnings for affirmative action. Without protection from reverse-discrimination lawsuits, virtually every instance of affirmative action can now be forever tied in a legal tangle that chokes the life out of it.” Williams concluded: “The bold national experiment that came to life 45 years ago with the equal employment section of the Civil Rights Act is now over — even if discrimination is not. It is time to think about how to deal with racial inequity without affirmative action.”
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250 Comments
It had its purpose but its time now to move on.
Bush’s fault.
Affirmative Action helped many white women also – especially when starting their own businesses.
But,I’m sure the old white male Republicans would like to take the entire country back to the 40’s and 50’s where everyone was ‘in their place’.
You betcha!
Affirmation Action holds people down, saddling them with an entitlement mentality that robs them of self-initiative and self-respect, it perpetuates racism.
I remember when my daughter was applying to a post graduate medical field school and she ask what she could do to enhance here chances of admission through course work, etc.
Their response, “well you easily have the grades to place in the top applicants, if you could just become black or other minority it would greatly help.
She looked at them and walked away, went a different way, a step up better way and it has made a very positive difference. Good for her!
Chief Justice Roberts put it, “the way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race.”
While I understand that sentiment, and the progress we have made is undeniable, it is naive to think that all our nation’s ills are in its past and our history of racism and discrimination is over.
It’s not.
So while “affirmative – or ‘affirmation’ – action may be over, the impact of (and at times legitimate consideration of) race is not, and may not be for another generation, if then. There may well always be tension between our desire to make our institutions and workforces reflect our populations, and the reality that in doing so, sometimes the most “qualified” will not always get the job in every case.
I frankly don’t know how to reconcile those. I don’t know that they can necessarily be reconciled. As long as we insist on seeing individuals less as individuals and more as members of identified groups (a point of view championed by, and relied upon by the left), this will be a problem.
Affirmation Action holds people down, saddling them with an entitlement mentality that robs them of self-initiative and self-respect, it perpetuates racism.
There is some truth to that.
It also tends to rob minorities who excel of the full value of their accomplishment; minorities who axcel tend to find that others – and even themselves – question whether their accomplishments are entirely their own, or whether they got a favored head start due to affirmative action.
That’s sad.
It fell victim to what happens to many good and noble ideas, the failure comes in the implementation.
I do agree to a good extent with Boxlock20, it ended up being a discrimination for and against minorities.
Instead of making it a choice of the best candidate for the job without a consideration of the color of the candidate. It in a number of cases it was the color and not the qualification that was the deciding factor.
This also served to diminish the efforts and skills of any minority who got a job, Sotomayer was very qualified for the job. But the focus and claim became not whether she was qualified or her hard work to obtain. But that it is because of her gender and race that she was chosen.
The White Firefighters lost not because the test was bias against minorities it was because not enough minorities passed the test. The issue was race and not equality in the chance to achieve. Which is what Affirmative action was about.
Our efforts should not be based on “White Guilt” rather on what is right.
I’ve seen affirmative action as it has grown and it served its purpose. However, a social contract amongst some minority groups of being cultural or at least playing that role of convenience has enhanced the life of many, but there are some who use it as a crutch.
O’BAMA recently gave his fellow Black Americans a mini-lecture on opportunity and responsibility. For once, I agree with what he had to say.
“No one has written your destiny for you,” he said to “all the other Barack Obamas out there” who could one day grow up to be president. “Your destiny is in your hands, and don’t you forget that. That’s what we have to teach all of our children! No excuses! No excuses!”
– NAACP 100th convention – Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States
(Full speech at this URL)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/16/obama-tells-naacp-sacrifice-began-journey-led/
#
Boxlock20
Posted July 30, 2009 at 9:00 am | Permalink
Affirmation Action holds people down, saddling them with an entitlement mentality that robs them of self-initiative and self-respect, it perpetuates racism.
==============================================
Right: Kinda like Clarence ‘the clown’ Thomas, who was fer it before he was agin’ it.
#
Boxlock20
Posted July 30, 2009 at 9:05 am | Permalink
I remember when my daughter was applying to a post graduate medical field school and she ask what she could do to enhance here chances of admission through course work, etc.
Their response, “well you easily have the grades to place in the top applicants, if you could just become black or other minority it would greatly help.
She looked at them and walked away, went a different way, a step up better way and it has made a very positive difference. Good for her!
=============================================
Yep, sure do believe that . . . .not.
It sounds as if your kid, “Boxlock20,” was marginal college material.
She’d probably have gotten in if the college simply dismissed all minorities’ applications as they used to.
So what happened with the different course she took?
Did she become a Nobel laureate?
A South Broadway crack ho?
You must be so proud.
“Affirmative Action” is nothing more than minority preference. Consider the City recently participated in an “All American City” contest in Tampa. 24 people from Wichita attended..13 employees and the balance were family members.
I saw a picture of the 24 people. 16 were female. 12 were black. There were a total of 2 white males, or 8.3% of the people attending. Is this representative of the population of Wichita?
Nothing racist about that, “grownup.”
What year is it predicted ‘whites’ will be a minority in the U.S.? karma — she is a bi tch.
Oh those poor white boys- after 400 years of practicing the worst sort of racism laced with murder and terrorism, they’re afraid somebody else might beat ‘em out of a job! It’s just so……….
“It sounds as if your kid, “Boxlock20,” was marginal college material.
She’d probably have gotten in if the college simply dismissed all minorities’ applications as they used to.
So what happened with the different course she took?
Did she become a Nobel laureate?
A South Broadway crack ho?
You must be so proud.—the blubous monkey’s ass
What a man….attacking someones daughter because of what, jealousy, and inability to get me….you make yourself look as foolish as you are ya Monkey.
She went on to much bigger and better, she now teaches for a major state university medical program and is head medical person at a medical center for the homeless when not teaching.
The university has ask her if she will be willing to enter a 4 to 5 year PhD program if they fund it and she will agree to teach (professorship) in return.
Sounds like she isn’t college material….the musings of an idiot.
#
Jed
Posted July 30, 2009 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
Oh those poor white boys- after 400 years of practicing the worst sort of racism laced with murder and terrorism, they’re afraid somebody else might beat ‘em out of a job! It’s just so……….
———–
Libs like Jed don’t live in the real world. To them it’s fair to discriminate against folks based on race now because in the past others were discriminated against based on race. They want to continue the cycle and seek to divide people on the basis of race.
If that isn’t evil, it’s at least wrong headed.
Those poor, poor white men, having to deal with FEMALES and MINORITIES, actually having to compete for advancement.
Dang, I feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad for them.
Enjoy it while you can, old white boys, your time is just about over.
Thank God.
Enjoy it while you can, old white boys, your time is just about over.
============================
Bigot.
Jed
Posted July 30, 2009 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
Oh those poor white boys- after 400 years of practicing the worst sort of racism laced with murder and terrorism
========================================
Unlike you Jed, I am not even close to 400 years old so I haven’t participated in the deeds you speak of.
Oh brother. Clark, no one concerned about reverse discrimination is complaining about fair competition and you know it. In fact, that’s all that was desired in the New Haven, Conn case that was overturned.
And affirmative action has no part in fair competition.
Unlike you Jed, I am not even close to 400 years old so I haven’t participated in the deeds you speak of.
LOL!
Jed
Posted July 30, 2009 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
“Oh those poor white boys- after 400 years of practicing the worst sort of racism laced with murder and terrorism”
Sounds like rascism to me.
“Enjoy it while you can, old white boys, your time is just about over.
Thank God”
Rascism at it’s finest, in the name of religion too!
Box, so your daughter works for the government?? and that makes you proud?
“they’re afraid somebody else might beat ‘em out of a job! It’s just so……….”
Nope. Got mine on my own merits, not some percieved guilt from the past
littlejohn
Posted July 30, 2009 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
“Enjoy it while you can, old white boys, your time is just about over.
Thank God”
Rascism at it’s finest, in the name of religion too!
————————————————
Do you think it is an accident that those “old white boys” built the greatest nation known to man?
“Without protection from reverse-discrimination lawsuits, virtually every instance of affirmative action can now be forever tied in a legal tangle that chokes the life out of it.”
———————————————–
Finally, after 45 years, we see affirmative action was NEVER about equality or fairness.
It is about payback….
“Bigot.”
Tsk, tsk, it has become SOOOOOOO fashionable for white boys to call anyone that disagrees with them a “bigot.” The quicksand is about to your nose and all you can do is scream “bigot!”
“Do you think it is an accident that those “old white boys” built the greatest nation known to man?”
On the backs of slaves – you should be SOOOO proud!
The quicksand is about to your nose and all you can do is scream “bigot!”
===================================
What quicksand, old white man?
I am doing fantastic!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-29-2009/so-you-think-you-can-douche
“Clark, no one concerned about reverse discrimination”
Ya’ll practiced RACISM for 200 years and now you are whining about REVERSE racism?
Where were you in the “back of the bus” days?
Where were you during the days of the Freedom Riders?”
Where were you when Emmett Till was brutally murdered?
Where were you when Dr. King was assassinated?
“What quicksand, old white man?”
I am neither old nor white.
Ya’ll practiced RACISM for 200 years and now you are whining about REVERSE racism?
Where were you in the “back of the bus” days?
Where were you during the days of the Freedom Riders?”
Where were you when Emmett Till was brutally murdered?
Where were you when Dr. King was assassinated?
===============================================
Wasn’t alive for the last 200 years.
Wasn’t alive.
Wasn’t alive.
Wasn’t alive.
Wasn’t alive.
Next.
I am neither old nor white.
=============================
Double Bull Schitt.
Enjoy it while you can, old white boys, your time is just about over.
Hey WS, aren’t you an “old white boy”? Is that an oxymoron? Just sayin you know?
And what about the handicap, the disable?
If any of you on the We-Blog were to lose your eye sight does that make you different?
Yes it would, at about 70% unemployed, but still you are the same person, just challenged.
#
WSClark
Posted July 30, 2009 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
“Clark, no one concerned about reverse discrimination”
Ya’ll practiced RACISM for 200 years and now you are whining about REVERSE racism?
Where were you in the “back of the bus” days?
Where were you during the days of the Freedom Riders?”
Where were you when Emmett Till was brutally murdered?
Where were you when Dr. King was assassinated?
————————————
BEE ESS Clark!
You were an observer and non-participant just like the most of us. You’re only involvement because of your age (you were a school boy then) is because you saw it on TV.
Stop giving yourself false credentials, you didn’t earn anything except for just existing.
“Wasn’t alive”
Nor is your brain now.
“Hey WS, aren’t you an “old white boy”? Is that an oxymoron?”
Nope, I just pass for white.
“You were an observer and non-participant just like the most of us.”
Nope, most of those events came before my sixteenth birthday, but I was aware of the issues. I was an advocate for people of all races. I truly became an activist on April 4, 1968.
You are back on ignore, Regular…………….
The problem with people like Clark, is that they do not want equality.
They want preference within the races, not equality.
And that by definition is discrimination.
#
WSClark
Posted July 30, 2009 at 1:39 pm | Permalink
“Wasn’t alive”
Nor is your brain now.
“Hey WS, aren’t you an “old white boy”? Is that an oxymoron?”
Nope, I just pass for white.
“You were an observer and non-participant just like the most of us.”
Nope, most of those events came before my sixteenth birthday, but I was aware of the issues. I was an advocate for people of all races. I truly became an activist on April 4, 1968.
You are back on ignore, Regular…………….
—————————-
Yeah Clark – you were one of the 20th Century great Civil Rights leaders as a young 16 year old white boy in Detroit.
:rolls eyes:
“The problem with people like Clark, is that they do not want equality.”
Of course, you were just hunky-dory with racism, anti-American, when it favored YOU.
Now, not so much.
White boys are a dying breed – get used to it!
Racism has never benefited me.
The problem with people like Clark, is that they do not want equality.
They want preference within the races, not equality.
And that by definition is discrimination.
White boys are a dying breed.
==================================
I would guess old hippies are likely to croak off first…Better get use to it!
#
ANTI
Posted July 30, 2009 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
Racism has never benefited me.
The problem with people like Clark, is that they do not want equality.
They want preference within the races, not equality.
And that by definition is discrimination.
———————
I’m a fish bigot – don’t like the way they smell and some of them are down right ugly.
The only good fish is one that has been cleaned, filleted, cooked and put on a plate. :)
“Box, so your daughter works for the government?? and that makes you proud?”—TomPaine
She get a check, a very good one, from the state, like any university instructor.
She is NOT a government bureaucrat or politician thinking she can run peoples live better than they can.
I have no problem with government employees for the most part if they do their jobs with decent work ethic and know who they work for….the people.
I have a problem with politicians and bureaucrats that that think theirs doesn’t stink, seek their own power over others, and want to control everyone.
Big difference.
Clark’s blatant racism towards white people is alarming.
I’m a fish bigot – don’t like the way they smell and some of them are down right ugly.
=======================================
Sshh…Don’t tell anybody, but I feel the same way…The Hook Burning will be in the West forty at mid-night…Spread the word.
“Boxlock20″ and his kid –
http://tinyurl.com/n9apku
Outie,
“To them it’s fair to discriminate against folks based on race now because in the past others were discriminated against based on race.”
No, I just find it amusing that the sons of those good ole boy racists who fought against civil rights at every turn are now screaming racism. Something about karma?
True to form, Monkey has to resort to family attacks, a sure sign he and his arguments are impotently insignificant, and he knows it as well as everyone else.
Here’s a shot of the Monkey from a couple angles.
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn14783/dn14783-1_360.jpg
Hey Monkeyhawk,
Here’s one of you doing just what you do best, about all you get done! Ha ha ha!
http://www.2flashgames.com/f/f-Chimp-Cant-Stand-His-Own-Stench-6475.htm
Ant,
“Unlike you Jed, I am not even close to 400 years old so I haven’t participated in the deeds you speak of.”
Yeah, well I’m old enough to have witnessed at least some of it. Considering that in the 1950’s, the vast majority of white people in this country wouldn’t give the time of day to a black person, let alone allow his kids to go to school with theirs or drink from the same fountain or use a restroom in their neighborhood, I find all this talk of reverse racism today to be historically disingenuous, especially when too many of you still exchange “nig*er” jokes on the internet.
I’m old enough to have witnessed a time when white murderers were routinely let walk for no other reason than their victims were black. I’m old enough to have seen the police beat and set dogs on peaceable marchers who only wanted the acknowledgment by the authorities that prevailed that they were human too.
I remember watching the Governor of Arkansas, Orville Faubus, personally stand in the doorway of Central High, surrounded by police, and block seven kids from going to school.
I was there when hordes of christians yelled and shook ax handles and bibles that they quoted, saying that god said that black people were the spawn of satan and ought to be killed.
I read the reports by the FBI (released long after the fact) about how they did their damnedest to destroy the civil rights movement, how they invented and spread rumors to try to discredit Dr. King and the other leaders of the movement, and how they tried to plant provocateurs in the movement to promote violence so as to have grounds to arrest as many of them as possible.
I watched, along with the rest of the nation while they picked through the rubble of a black church to find the bodies of little children while the FBI not only knew who did it, but that one of their own informants participated in the bombing.
So I can’t help but feel that you who scream reverse racism haven’t the remotest idea of what racism is, even when your parents practiced it. What went around hasn’t begun to come around yet, and may not if you’d just learn history’s lesson. I’m not holding my breath.
Well Jed,
This isn’t the 1950’s or 1960’s.
Thankfully the overwhelming majority of today’s youth and folk under 40 are not as vengeful and hypocritical when it comes to race as yourself, Linda, and WSClark.
I see that as a good thing. Putting one race at an advantage over another is racism anyway you look at it. Also, seeking revenge for the deeds of the dead or dieing is just childish.
Affirmative Action is not dead! As a matter of fact it has been rejuvenated. If you read the new “Amnesty” program that is working its way through the bowels of Congress, you will see that its target has been changed from blacks to hispanic illegals.
ANTI
Posted July 30, 2009 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
Well Jed,
This isn’t the 1950’s or 1960’s.
——————————-
You’ll have to excuse some of the older Libs on this blog.
They have culturally and ethnically fossilized.
They have culturally and ethnically fossilized
=
They have been culturally and ethnically fossilized
Ant,
Given the comments by some of the bloggers here (some under 40) and given the ethnic jokes that seem to plague the internet and get forwarded around seemingly forever, and given that it is still about twice as hard for a black person to get a job they’re qualified for than a white person, and that black people are still stopped for DWB, I’d have to say that racism is hardly dead in America. It’s not be as blatantly evil as it was in years past- it’s gotten a bit more genteel- but it’s still racism.
I’m sure you don’t want it to still be an issue, but it will remain one for some years to come, seeing as how many of you don’t seem to be getting over it. Yes, things are better than they were, but given where they were then, things still have a long way to go before we can write the death certificate for racism. When we do, you can rest assured that you’ll be treated just as equal as everyone else, you poor discriminated-against thing!
and given that it is still about twice as hard for a black person to get a job they’re qualified for than a white person
==================================
Bull Schitt.
Get over it Jed, it doesn’t help anyone, least of all you.
seeing as how many of you don’t seem to be getting over it
=======================
Yourself included.
my first job out of college…worked for 2 years, got ‘time in title’ and applied for another position (slight promotion) within the company. I had the desired experience, approval of current supervisor, positive reviews.
I soone learned that the hiring manager was stopping women on the street, asking them if they wanted the job I had applied for. An off the street hire was recruited and I did not get the pomotion. (the new hire didn’t make it past probation, however, no experience or ability for the job)
“equal opportunity” at its best. contrary to some posters here, I had never hired/discriminated against anyone based on gender or race…but learned the hard way how it feels.
What I fail to see is how equitable is it to punish people in today’s job market for the sins of the past?
Boxic,
“Get over it Jed, it doesn’t help anyone, least of all you.”
I will when you’re over it.
Hey..Jed..do you remember hearing of the Bataan Death March? Based on that, should we continue the war against the Japanese?
Let it go. Holding grudges or punishing people for historical sins serves no purpose. Today there are countless laws preventing the type of atrocities you mention.
Jed is forgetting that the 1950s and 1960s are in the half century time frame away from today. That’s 50 plus years – attitudes and people have changed.
The 1950/60s Jurassic Park Hippie mindset no longer applies.
Jed, I’ve never had a problem with it. I’ve always been against discrimination in any direction….period.
If the firefighters had the best scores, they should have gotten the promotions and the rest told to study harder for the next time.
If my daughter had the highest grades and best interview she should be admitted and the rest told to pull their grades up and/or take a course in interview techniques.
What shouldn’t happen is the best applicant being told that, ‘we need this percentage of blacks’, or whatever minority, and ‘as a result you are out and they are in in spite of grades and other qualification you may have’.
That’s an insult to all applicants.
But, they did her a favor in a way, she is far better off and happier, including a higher income, by being told that and going her own way.
And, I wonder how the ‘others’ feel about themselves if they know they got in without earning it but simply because of a quota.
They didn’t win!
Rapt,
I’ve always regarded affirmative action as a temporary solution to a temporary problem, that when racial and gender and all the other forms discrimination takes have gone the way of the dodo, so would such programs. I had hopes that we’d be past all that by now, and a lot of us are, but there still seems to be a fair few who will do anything to defeat equality, who get elected or promoted to positions of power and enforce their warped thinking in businesses and governments. As much as I wish we didn’t have to, we may have to wait for a generation or two of racists to die off.
I agree with you in principle, Jed…but we are still surrounded by racism. I refer to the now famous quote about “a wise Latina…” that was both racial and gender based discrimination.
Al Sharpton is another perfect example of “high level” racism. When a black woman (was holding a gun) was shot by police officers in Riverside, CA some years ago, Al showed up and demanded a boycott of all white owned businesses in Riverside. What is up with that? The police officers were threatend by someone on drugs with a gun. The white owned businesses had absolutely nothing to do with a late night shooting–yet al tries to ‘punish’ them.
A few weeks after that, a black suspect shot and killed a white Riverside police officer–and Al Sharpton was conspicuously absent.
As long as we have loudmouths like sharpton and racists like sotomayor, racism will be a continuing problem.
Rapt,
“Hey..Jed..do you remember hearing of the Bataan Death March? Based on that, should we continue the war against the Japanese? ”
I actually know a couple of older coots than me who still fight that war- they haven’t ever stopped hating anything Japanese. And there are racists from the ’50’s still around and still spreading their poison to their children who are now raising another generation of skinheads or other permutations of racists. They have to be carefully taught.
Jed,
I kind of agree with you on your last post, and it may take awhile longer. None the less it helps no one to officially sanction discrimination with affirmative action. It only prolongs it.
It’s not fair to someone not guilty of anything to be placed at the back of the line so to speak because of someone elses discrimination 50 years ago or even today.
And people shouldn’t be penalized or punished for being more competetive and winning in life if they are competing honestly. Affirmative action does just that.
Rapt,
WASPs have been asserting their own racial/cultural superiority for centuries. Is it any wonder that other cultures take that as the paradigm to assume their own? I don’t like the notion of any group’s so-called right to rule, but the fact is that if you belong to a group that persecutes some group enough, you can expect your group to get hated back, and such hate can last for hundreds, even thousands of years if not dealt with. I for one would like it dealt with, not hidden away to fester, as some here wish.
Boxic,
“And people shouldn’t be penalized or punished for being more competetive and winning in life if they are competing honestly.”
After all those years of harshly punishing any attempt at competitiveness in black people and doing their damnedest to not compete honestly, now white America is upset on the few occasions that the mop flops the other way? Get over it!
Affirmative action needs to stay at least until the generation that had to deal with separate education passes away. It is not fair to hold the ones who were shafted on education and opportunity, and expect them to be able to pass written tests with the same ability.
Trust me, I deal with this every single week, discrimination, downright racism, and just this week, the divide in how education affects the minorities.
It isn’t fair. Judges are not supposed to be activists judges. They determine if the laws that are made are constitutional. This was constitutional.
If white people still think they’re being discriminated against, they’re seriously ignorant of what goes on out there. Either that, or they know full well the benefit they have just from being born WHITE and don’t wish to give that up.
Anti, you are wrong. Racism is still very much alive and well in hiring practices. I see it all the time. And how do I know this? I work in a field where they TELL ME SO.
I refuse to honor a request to have ‘whites only’.
The decay of Affirmative Action really started in the late 1990’s when courts began ruling against strict enforcement of race based quota’s.
When the trend setting California passed a ban on all forms of affirmative action which took affect I think in the late 1990’s – the sun began to set on AA.
The SCOTUS has been wishy-washy on AA, IMHO. But the final taps began when the court ruled against considering Race to Integrate Schools.
Minority groups have been quick to react.Minorities recognized they would not be able to depend up the courts to provide them an advantage. A replacement for Affirmative Action has been implemented nationwide and now is part of the institutional brainwashing in our public schools and many workplaces. What is this new, politically correct, and court proof method of ensuring continuation of racial advantage?
“Diversity”
Diversity in the workplace
What the sam he11 do you all think that means?
Anyone who claims that blacks and minorities have an advantage are so ignorant. And it isn’t a matter of ignorance but rather what they choose to believe because the studies PROVE that we still need AA.
What do you suppose the chances are that this guy has profiled before?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/30/gates.police.apology/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
“Racism is still very much alive ”
Agreed. Black folk make fun of white folk all the time and are very racial. Blacks hire blacks. Just look at the secret service Obama body guards.
“that blacks and minorities have an advantage ”
No one – and no race should have ANY advantage.
Quality is job one. Not racial quotas.
The government CANNOT solve racial discrimination by discriminating racially. Affirmative action programs simply delay the day when we can have the color blind society most of us want.
“Raptor” muses –
“I soone learned that the hiring manager was stopping women on the street, asking them if they wanted the job I had applied for. An off the street hire was recruited and I did not get the pomotion. “
Maybe the hiring manager was looking for someone who could spell.
Yeah, but you don’t hold a grudge.
Or, perhaps there was another reason why they didn’t want you to have the job Raptor.
You know there are a few people I know who go around claiming that they didn’t get a job because their company HAD TO give their job to a minority.
If the company is in a position of HAVE TO, they’re doing something wrong in the first place.
outlander,
I totally agree with the first sentence of your post, “The government CANNOT solve racial discrimination by discriminating racially”.
But frankly I don’t want to ever be ‘color blind’. I would rather celebrate our differences without discrimination and prejudice. But it has to work both, or all, ways. Not with affirmative action for certain groups.
“The decay of Affirmative Action really started in the late 1990’s when courts began ruling against strict enforcement of race based quota’s.”—American_Way
And it will continue to dissolve away as it is inherently unjust and against our natural ingrained sense of right and wrong.
Frankly, I think it was another typical liberal feel good idea that has harmed more than helped.
Box, I agree that we can celebrate our differences. Unfortunately we are STILL not there yet as a nation.
mh…must be nice being perfect as you and never make typogrpahical errors.
my narrative was a simple example…i harbor no grudge over the actions involved. i am not quite as immature as you imply.
pm…i did get the job after the off the street hire failed probation–was was promoted again in 2 years.
was was = and was
just providing more ammunition for mh to make childish observations.
“I had the desired experience, approval of current supervisor, positive reviews.”
In other words, you were a suck up.
Political_mama,
For once you and I, unbelievably, can agree! Hallelujah!
Now here’s where you will get ‘hacked off’ at me. Buts what’s new?
Last week I was in a public place, an eating place, on vacation with my young grandchildren. There were crowds of folks and their kids there as well, and there were two boys, yes black, with pants on that defied the laws of gravity.
Their pants were below there butts, well below like down on their hamstrings, held up by who knows what. Yes, they had shirts on, thin shirts, that covered their underwear (I hope they were wearing it, who knows) but still it was obnoxious. My grandkids just stared, and they aren’t racially prejudiced.
I don’t celebrate that kind of behavior and lack or respect for others and societal norms in general.
Believe me it would have taken ‘affirmative action’….and a government gun, for me to EVER hire either of them. Is that discrimination?
Discrimination is good, we discriminate all the time as to what we buy, what listen too music wise etc, etc, in many ways. Discrimination is not inherently bad, only when it is unjust.
“Frankly, I think it was another typical liberal feel good idea that has harmed more than helped.”
Box, when you a chance try the book “Losing Ground”. An analysis by Charles Murray.
“Boxlock20″ gets passionate over –
“Their pants were below there butts, well below like down on their hamstrings, held up by who knows what. Yes, they had shirts on, thin shirts, that covered their underwear (I hope they were wearing it, who knows)”
Careful there. I happened to mention a Marine’s garters I saw in the locker room of a gym and caught all sorts of abuse from WE Blog CONs.
You, on the other hand, went deep in to hamstrings and a Freudian wonder about “…held up by who knows what,” and went on about the objects of your affection wearing thin shirts and, maybe, underwear.
Whoo!
Your talents are being wasted, “Boxlock20.” You should be writing gay romance novels.
Hmmm… Monkey, I didn’t get anything homo out of Boxlock’s post, certainly not homo romance. But I’ll yield to your obvious superior knowledge of the subject.
Box, society norms is what the anti PC crowd screams about all the time, and that’s on YOUR side. Not mine.
‘by gawd, I’ll say whatever I want, whenever I want, and that’s my god given american right, no matter who it hurts’.
Well, those young black kids were making their fashion statement. It didn’t hurt you or anyone else. They weren’t misbehaving. Would I hire them if they came in looking like that? NO. But I’m not judging them outside of the professional realm. I don’t care for the saggy pants thing either. Personal preference. But I also remember being a very hip young 17 years old, wearing the skin-tight jeans, the tank top with the baggy sweater slung from one shoulder and high heeled boots. I’m sure that I got some disapproving stares too.
I suppose you’re going to say you didn’t have long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s too.
Thanks outlander,
There was nothing ‘gay’ or appreciative about my description of their appearance. In fact if they were related to me I would have slapped the crap out of them and made them dress appropriately immediately.
It makes me wonder about the ‘quality’ of their parenting, actually not wonder but remorse.
Monkey has lately been reduced to petty, insignificant posts, ie. this and other threads. He’s a loser and is really feeling it I think.
My point is I would never hire people that dress like that, black or whatever. Call that discrimination….then fine, that’s the way it is.
In case you missed it here is a short video of Monkeyhawk doing what he is best at, and about all he is capable of.
http://www.2flashgames.com/f/f-Chimp-Cant-Stand-His-Own-Stench-6475.htm?size=LARGE
No Reason For Affirmative Action Now!
Obama drinks beer with a white guy & a black guy!
Racism is over! Mission Accomplished!
Everybody sing together now!
Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home
Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home
I looked over Jordan, and I what did I see
Coming for to carry me home?
A band of angels coming after me
Coming for to carry me home
If you get there before I do
Coming for to carry me home
Tell all my friends I coming too
Coming for to carry me home
I’m sometimes up, I’m sometimes down
Coming for to carry me home
But still my soul feels heavenly bound
Coming for to carry me home
Ol’ “Boxlock20″ waxes on about two kids butts showing up above their jeans and decides he won’t hire them.
It probably would have been awkward anyway, what with his “young grandchildren” present.
But later, in the Men’s Room at the bus depot? Who knows?
“I suppose you’re going to say you didn’t have long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s too.”
Well my dick and butt were not exposed or hanging out as the kids do now.
Monkeyhawk, Boxlock made no comment even remotely indicating homosexuality (which you seem to see as a method of degrading him).
Anyway, you hold the blog record at admissions along these lines,. Need I remind everyone?
AmWay, you really are just a doosh aren’t you.
You almost sound as crazy as Glen Beck and Limpballs.
I think Glen Beck is trying to be Limpball’s number 2.
“Well, those young black kids were making their fashion statement. It didn’t hurt you or anyone else…. But I also remember being a very hip young 17 years old, wearing the skin-tight jeans, the tank top with the baggy sweater slung from one shoulder and high heeled boots. I’m sure that I got some disapproving stares too.
I suppose you’re going to say you didn’t have long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s too.”—P_mama
Come on P_mama, everyone had long hair in the 70s, big deal, that wasn’t anti-social.
I can honesty tell you I NEVER had bell bottoms…..Leisure Suit….Oh My Gawd, I’m So Embarrassed!!! But I can promise you, promise you, I never wore it more than once or twice, especially after wearing it with those patent leather white slip-ons’.
You say, “It didn’t hurt you or anyone else….”
It did hurt, I think, at least it might have. It was very apparent to my grandkids, and sure I made it clear that was not appropriate, but who knows how it affects a 10, 7, and a ‘little outlaw’ 5 year old.
Society can exist only when there are mutually acceptable norms that are adhered to. Otherwise there is chaos.
The whole point of my bringing this up is that I would, and quickly did discriminate against those black boys dress. And would have rejected them outright for employment or anything else based solely on that. It’s not my responsibility to explore why they choose to alienate themselve like that.
P-mama, do you think it helped or hurt you long-term, overall, to have dressed like you describe as apposed ot a more socially acceptable dress? What benefit did you derive?
I suppose you’re going to say you didn’t have long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s too.
Not me, I was dressed in accordance with military regulations. :)
Political_mama
Posted July 30, 2009 at 8:52 pm | Permalink
AmWay, you really are just a doosh aren’t you.
————
AmWay, Pmom is having sexual fantasies about you now.
Yuuuuucccck!
not quite, bj. i was and still am something you obviously cannot quite comprehend…an honest, conscientious employee.
” Pmom is having sexual fantasies about you now.”
I’m sure I could stomach her. Have you noticed her posts of late? All she does it throw one liner nasty attacks at cons.
Not even an “attempt” at posting anything of substance anymore (it was always a struggle for her).
Anyway, it’s obvious the libs are on the defensive.
2010!
BlueJay
Posted July 30, 2009 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
“I had the desired experience, approval of current supervisor, positive reviews.”
In other words, you were a suck up.
————–
I would bet BJ never had a positve performance review in his entire life.
American_Way
Posted July 30, 2009 at 9:06 pm | Permalink
” Pmom is having sexual fantasies about you now.”
I’m sure I could stomach her.
————–
It’s obvious she needs it from somebody.
Find me
Find me
Find me
Someone to love……
“I would bet BJ never had a positve performance review in his entire life.”—JimJohnson
Amen….sorry to have to say that, but that’s the way is is.
What a hateful, resentful person BJ is of anyone that strives to achieve.
It’s really sad, but he deserves every bit of hell he live in.
” positve performance review ”
Do they actually do that for fryboys? I know they don’t where he volunteers at the Salvation Army.
“every bit of hell he lives in.”
He regrets even living in Wichita. Can you believe that?
I’ll bet he regrets being born.
“You almost sound as crazy as Glen Beck and Limpballs.”
Political Momma: How would you know?
BJ, let me give you a clue that at least I believe in.
I am not totally happy with myself, not at all, not even close.
Who’s fault is that?
It’s not anyone else’s but my own.
Go look in the mirror for your source of discontent…you will find it looking back at you.
Just as I do.
Jimbo,
“Racism is over! Mission Accomplished!”
Seems like I’ve heard that premature “mission accomplished” somewhere before. Obviously that mission won’t be accomplished as long as you’re still yapping!
You guys talk about skin color but racism isn’t just about what race you are.
I had said before hand that the handicap, the disable are discriminated.
Their unemployment rate is at about 70% unemployed.
I throw this in under this topic for discussion and feedback.
So where does affirmative action fit in with them, does anybody have any input about it?
Boxic,
“There were crowds of folks and their kids there as well, and there were two boys, yes black, with pants on that defied the laws of gravity.”
Fashion is and always has been a matter of personal taste. What I can’t stand are those guys in suits and those ever-so-narrow ties. I’d never hire anyone who came looking for a job wearing a suit! I have friends who wear low-slung pants and cornrows, and it doesn’t seem to affect how they think or their attutude toward their fellow man nearly as much as wearing a suit does. And when I was in art school, I hired models who didn’t wear anything at all, and it didn’t seem to affect their ability to do the job!
Wise,
Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. Disabled people are a neglected, underused and wasted resource in the job merket. Employers who could get over that prejudice might find a really motivated and creative workforce that would make them proud- and rich!
I had a great-uncle many years back with severe cerebral palsy who was very hard to understand until you got used to his speech and who couldn’t make it across a room without assistance. He could type about 5wpm, worked as a counselor for the Boys Clubs in the KC area and wrote numerous manuals for counselors that are still in use. He was only the first of many disabled people it’s been my privilege to know.
“Fashion is and always has been a matter of personal taste. What I can’t stand are those guys in suits and those ever-so-narrow ties. I’d never hire anyone who came looking for a job wearing a suit! I have friends who wear low-slung pants and cornrows, and it doesn’t seem to affect how they think or their attutude toward their fellow man nearly as much as wearing a suit does.”—Jed
Sure it affects how they think or their attutude[sic].
At least it sure will when they are rejected for a job over and over and over. Who wants to put up with or have their customers put up with looking at the outline of the crack of someone’s ass. They are asses for dressing like that and I applaud them being rightfully discriminated against, not for color but for idiocy.
And then they cry “racial discrimination”….stupid!
R.I.P., affirmative action?
Apparently not…
$1.5 million grant to help MSU educate more Hispanics in neurosciences
EAST LANSING, Mich. — A $1.5 million federal grant will help Michigan State University increase the number of Hispanic doctoral students trained in the neurosciences.
http://news.msu.edu/story/6635/
Jed
Posted July 31, 2009 at 1:23 am | Permalink
Wise,
Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. Disabled people are a neglected, underused and wasted resource in the job merket.
—————————————-
I’m boycotting American Airline…..
They have refused to hire one blind pilot…..
That just isn’t fair.
Why isn’t there a United Caucasian College Fund?
Why aren’t there White Fraternaties?
Why aren’t there White Colleges?
Ah, Boxic, a true man who thinks with his pants!
Yeah, I remember when kids who came to school with ducktails had them forcibly hacked off by the principal. I also remember toward the end of Vietnam when guys with military haircuts were told to look elsewhere for jobs.
There has yet to be a fashion statement that somebody with the power to hire and fire hasn’t objected vehemently to. And there was a day not too long ago when a woman who went looking for a job had to wear something low cut with her miniskirt to even be considered for a job.
You may not like whatever’s in this year, but if you go around judging folks for following a particular trend, and only associating with or hiring people who dress just like you, you may be missing out on some pretty good friends and/or workers. I’m sure you have already.
Bi-assed,
“I’m boycotting American Airline…..
They have refused to hire one blind pilot…..
That just isn’t fair.”
A blind pilot could probably find a way to do his job much better than a stupid one.
“You may not like whatever’s in this year, but if you go around judging folks for following a particular trend, and only associating with or hiring people who dress just like you, you may be missing out on some pretty good friends and/or workers. I’m sure you have already.”–Jed
I’m not worried about “missing out on some pretty good friends and/or workers”, not if their butt is hanging out and they haven’t got the sense to dress in at least a socially acceptable manner….and I damn sure wouldn’t hire them. Simply following trends for trends sake is immature and insecure.
God, so now we are worried about “sagging” and “cornrows?”
Get over it. It is what it is. That is what young people do. They find a way to deviate from the norm and go with it.
My 22 year old wears a faux-hawk with a beard. He is an assistant manager at a well respected retail company in Wichita. He also wears an earring and on weekend wears baggy shorts and tee shirts, year long.
It is what it is.
Get over yourselves, old folks. The young people of this nation will soon be the majority and your irrational objections will be just that – irrational.
Just like it was in the Sixties…………..
“Get over yourselves, old folks. The young people of this nation will soon be the majority and your irrational objections will be just that – irrational.
Just like it was in the Sixties………WSClutz
No, they will become more conservative as they gain experience and intelligence.
They will become……exactly like us old folks !
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