President Obama wants Congress and the country to focus on the future, not the past. But that’s getting tougher to do with the new allegation that former Vice President Dick Cheney ordered the CIA to withhold information from Congress.
CIA Director Leon Panetta reportedly told the Senate and House intelligence committees that the CIA withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program for eight years on direct order from Cheney. That could be a violation of a law requiring the president to make sure the intelligence committees “are kept fully and currently informed of the intelligence activities of the United States, including any significant anticipated intelligence activity.”
Meanwhile, Attorney General Eric Holder is leaning toward appointing a criminal prosecutor to investigate whether the CIA tortured terrorism suspects, the Washington Post reported.
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I would love for the Democrats to waste valuable political capital pursuing Cheney. In a true occurence of serendipity, this will also serve a purpose in distracting the Obama administration from getting support for Obamacare as well as the tax raising climate bill.
Sick’em boys! Go chase that rabbit!
Meanwhile nothing gets done this year and the economy actually gets worse from what has already been done.
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Regular
Posted July 13, 2009 at 12:18 pm | Permalink
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Just a suggestion, but you might consider setting up your own blog since you don’t seem to agree with the way that this one is run. Just think, you could pick all the subjects that are up for discussion, you could moderate the comments, and swing the ban-hammer so that you could keep out the riff-raff. I’m sure it would be quite popular.
P.S. At this point, I think Brownlee is farking with you…..BIG TIME.
The only way to end this crap is for the justice department to send Bush/Cheney and any of the other administration war criminal to jail.
These two clowns turned this nation into the very thing we fought against in several other places around the world in eight short years time. Don`t even think Bush didn`t know about all this and approve of it. It`s the old game of good cop bad cop, I know nothing bullship.
The problem is none of the azz holes in congress has the guts to stand up for the Constitution they swore to uphold.
These crooks make what Nixon did look like child’s play and they are going to get away with it. Friggin amazing. We have a group of gutless wonders in Washington.
Re: RFL Posted July 13, 2009 at 12:25 pm
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I gather you are one of the ditto-head clowns hoping for failure. Just keep in mine that if Obama fails, the nation also fails, and when that happens there is no “D” or “R” attached to the names of those who pay the price for your ignorance and the hopes of the fat doper.
I don’t ever want to hear from the cons about posts with no substance, until, or unless you are willing to call out Regular. Scroll over at it’s finest.
Right, go after Cheney! Charge him! Give him sopeana power over the liberals to find out what they knew and when they knew it!
Go after Cheney? It would be like a Chihuahua catching a Mack truck. The libs aren’t actually going after Cheney, they’re merely sitting on the porch and barking.
There will be nothing done no matter how much evidence there is. Their guilt or not guilty is not a matter to be resolved. The administration’s hubris was that no one is smart enough to notice.
But this country does not have the guts to stand up for what is right. To stand up for the law when the outcome is the indictment of a President of the United States. By doing so is an indictment of the country itself. We would rather live with the shame and falsehoods then be the country we claim we are.
I’ll post this here, since it seems more appropriate:
Call me a cynic, but I am not in the least surprised that a couple of weeks after Barack Obama’s strong approval/disapproval ratings took a turn to the unfavorable and Obamacare is looking less like a lead pipe cinch it is suddenly time to investigate the Bush administration.
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2009/07/obamas-popularity-declines-and.html
Yup. Me too. When the administration doesn’t know what to do, it does know who to run against.
Of course, Holder insists that he’s making this decision independently, without input from the Obama adminstration. If you believe that, I have a very nice piece of swampland to sell you for a great price . . . .
Oh . . . . and show trials can’t be far behind. This is political prosecution at its finest. The worm will turn, and when it does, remember that the precedents set will apply with the shoe on the other foot.
Regular posted July 13, 2009 at 12:18 pm
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Yet another dumb and boring post from “Kansas values(sic)” Regular, who always wants more soup.
How seredipitous: I’m in a mood to fight, and GMC70 is intoning with particular unctuousness that, if Democrats investigate criminal actions by Dick Cheney, that “the precedents set will apply with the shoe on the other foot.”
Actually, GMC70, the thirty-five year precedent that really pertains here is that in which Republican criminal wrongdoing goes unpunished in the interest of “comity,” “bipartisanship,” or in not playing “the blame game.” From Watergate, to Iran/Contra (and OF COURSE Reagan knew the CIA were selling arms to Iran to fund the Contras), and now to all the depredations of the Cheney/Bush junta, Republican wrongdoing is always excused, by the elite organs of public opinion (i.e. the WaPo) in the name of the above buzzwords. Every time. And precedent in the other direction? Well, it consists in Republican misuse of Federal authority to harass and impeach Democrats, i.e. Bill Clinton and Gov. Siegelman.
So, GMC70, if your pretence is that Democrats ought to refrain from investigating criminal actions by Cheney and Bush because “they wouldn’t want those weapons turned on them,” well, we have three decades of seeing how Republicans repay Democratic cowardliness about enforcing the rule of law: by abusing the law and using it against Democrats.
Seems to me that if Republicans will harry and harrass Democrats, regardless, that Democrats have nothing to lose by exercising the constitutionally-mandated powers of subpeona and investigation.
You like to preach about “moral hazard,” GMC70. Seems to me that the ultimate “moral hazard” faced in this country is to sit by and do nothing while, again and again, Republicans play “chicken” with the the Constitution and the rule of law.
Like I said a few days ago, I imagine there were two simultaneous channels of communication from the former admin., One for the front door appearances, the other the back door channel, which I be included our very own Sen. Roberts. Ask what he knew, and when!
Maybe there’s a correlation between not enforcing the law against the former dictatorship, and diminishing popularity. Why should Obama stick his neck out because of bush/cheney wrongdoing?
CF2K, the Muppet poster, is displaying his usual fulsomeness.
We’ve got the clout to get health care with/without the repubs., will just have to make the dems. tow the line for the greater good.
opinioned1
Posted July 13, 2009 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Just keep in mine that if Obama fails, the nation also fails,
What do you want me to do about it? If the Democrats fall on their face pursuing Cheney, then that is their own fault. I personally don’t care either way.
Please, I am actually cheering for another stimulus. If deficit spending is needed to stimulate the economy, why not triple the spending? Lets do it!
The faster the Democrats enact their deficit spending policies, the faster we can all see that they suck.
There is a bright side to every choice that leads to failure, that is it reveals what has not worked.
Cheers!
I know it’s hard for you former presidential Unitarist to grasp, but the constitution doesn’t evolve upon which party is in power. At least not to us strict constructionist. The first step to a monarchy is to disregard the separation of power and duties of the three (unless you count the v.p. as the fourth column) branches of government.
Investigate, let the chips fall where they may, and set an example for future presidencies.
The House Judiciary Committee debated the impeachment of George W. Bush on Friday, July 25 2008. The hearing was televised on C-Span. History will show Bush to have been the fourth setting president to have been brought to the door of impeachment.
Now if the cowards in congress would get off their dead butts and do what the swore to do-”uphold our Constitution”–the merry band of criminals from Bush on down the ladder would be called what they are “war criminals” deserving of what the law allows. This is America, we don`t allow our president to act like a dictator, or do we? Lets see what the cowards in congress will do.
Repubs are lining up against another stimulus hoping the last one wasn’t big enough to do the trick, and maybe spend the next two yrs. crying about it didn’t do enough.
I truly hope the Dems launch a huge investigation on Cheney/Bush.
Congressional Hearings, Special Prosecutors, CIA vs Congress, NSA vs CIA, All vs Cheney/Bush. Expose the inner workings or lack of workings of Government and expose critical National Security info as well. Make America look real bad, to make America look good, for being able to attack itself. That will unite us.
This should go on for months, at least until November 2010.
It will be a great D I V E R S I O N attempt. And it will be seen by the public for exactly what it is.
Meanwhile, the SHTF while Dems attempt their diversion:
1. Unemployment tops 10% and heads higher.
2. US Dollar tanks, Inflation doubles.
3. Social Security/Medicare/Prescription Drug crisis continues to get worse as unemployment drops Revenue, approaching $100 Trillion in unfunded obligations.
4. ObamaCare increases National Debt by $2 Trillion and creates even more unfunded future obligations.
5. Existing Health Care system collapses when 1/3 of our Doctors (who are currently over age 55) retire, rather then facing 50% pay cuts and ObamaCare red tape.
6. US Troops remain in Iraq, Afghanistan, and enter Pakistan. Troops added to South Korea.
7. Massive tax increases with Cap & Trade hit in 2010.
8. Bush tax cuts expire AND Democrats raise taxes and add in SURCHARGES, Extra taxes for the filthy rich bass turds.
9. Gitmo prisoners in November of 2010 will be at – drumroll please – Gitmo!
10. More financial bailouts occur, Government takes over 50% of corporate America, including the Oil Companies.
Go for it Dems, ignore 1 through 10, and let’s investigate Cheney/Bush.
Phatmom
Posted July 13, 2009 at 1:54 pm | Permalink
Repubs are lining up against another stimulus hoping the last one wasn’t big enough to do the trick, and maybe spend the next two yrs. crying about it didn’t do enough.
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Demorats are lining up to help the WPE spend our great-grand-childrens money, having already spent our grand-childrens money and what little GWB left us…….
And will spend the next two years trying to spend our great-great-grand-childrens money….
Phantom
Posted July 13, 2009 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
We’ve got the clout to get health care with/without the repubs., will just have to make the dems. tow the line for the greater good.
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For the greater good, like Karl Marx proposed?
Yup, you’ll get ObamaCare to screw all of us, and who will pay for it?
Phantom
Posted July 13, 2009 at 1:54 pm | Permalink
Repubs are lining up against another stimulus hoping the last one wasn’t big enough to do the trick, and maybe spend the next two yrs. crying about it didn’t do enough.
———————–
Oh yeah, THAT is what’s needed to Do The Trick – Another Stimulus!
(Hey, if it didn’t work the first time, just try it again!)
opinioned1
Posted July 13, 2009 at 1:54 pm | Permalink
The House Judiciary Committee debated the impeachment of George W. Bush on Friday, July 25 2008. The hearing was televised on C-Span. History will show Bush to have been the fourth setting president to have been brought to the door of impeachment.
Now if the cowards in congress would get off their dead butts and do what the swore to do-”uphold our Constitution”–the merry band of criminals from Bush on down the ladder would be called what they are “war criminals” deserving of what the law allows. This is America, we don`t allow our president to act like a dictator, or do we? Lets see what the cowards in congress will do.
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And how many times did Congress VOTE to FUND THE WAR?
If GW is guilty, then all who voted for it, be guilty too.
By all means Dems, investigate Cheney while Rome burns.
Investigate what, according to the very Times article cited here, amounted to nothing. A theoretical program that was never operational.
Go for it. For the good of the country.
JJ, unlike republicans, we democrats can do more than one thing at a time. If they investigate Cheney, that won’t mean an end to the other issues now before congress. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
this and the other topics…………..the WE is becoming abigger joke everyday……….and the country is crashing
Re: RFLPosted July 13, 2009 at 1:41 pm –”If the Democrats fall on their face pursuing Cheney, then that is their own fault”
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The Democrats are not going to fall on their face and I`m sure that upsets the ditto-heads something terrible.Falling further into the cesspool than what Bush did would take some doing.
As for pursuing the criminal activities of Bush/Cheney I have no idea how you could ever think that enforcing the laws that run this nation could be classified as something that would make anyone look desperate or fall on their face??
Those doing the investigating would never look like anything other than the American patriots they would be.The idea that because it`s the former president being investigated there should be a different standard set for that is absurd.
I truly hope congress grows some cajones and pursues the war criminal, torture,and spying charges to a conclusion one way or the other. If Bush/Cheney are found guilty the belong in jail. Right now I would say the odds are about 50/50 of anyone starting the investigation.
Either we hold our leaders accountable or we do not.
ENOUGH with worrying that it will be bad blood with the troglodyte cons. Cheney must be prosecuted.
Cheney must be prosecuted.
So what are you people waiting for? Get on with it.
Surely if a piccadilo is worth a two yr. investigation of a sitting president, the separation of powers issue is worthy of investigating a former president (who no longer has his finger on the button, nor any other pressing responsibilities).
Unless you’re a repub.
And, just think not even a sticky ‘executive priveledge’ or ‘national security’ defense!
RE: “Investigate what, according to the very Times article cited here, amounted to nothing. A theoretical program that was never operational.”
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In a free nation we are entitled to know the truth,did any of these illegal programs get put in place or not.
the separation of powers issue is worthy of investigating a former president
So what are you people waiting for? Get on with it.
And, why did they not become operational, technical issue? Run out of time? Revolt amongst the troops?
Revolt amongst the troops?
Yeah, that was it. It was in all the papers.
::eyeroll::
RE: SolDevVBPosted July 13, 2009 at 2:24 pm So what are you people waiting for? Get on with it.
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I believe you will get something you don`t want to see. The destruction of the GOP and a jail term for the Bushies. That`s the least a full investigation would end with. So please get with the program and help push the investigation. I plan to do just that with phone calls and letters.
The GOP overstepped the boundaries of good common sense and in the process became war criminals who at one time really believed they would NEVER be voted out of power. Strange how things like than can happen in a republic like our`s, huh?
I believe you will get something you don`t want to see.
Bring it.
CF –
I’ll keep this simple.
This “BusH**ler etc. (pick the pejorative of you choice) / warcriminals!!! / “Bush Lied, people died” kerfluffle isn’t about justice, it’s about politics.
It always was. And anyone who thinks otherwise is naive in the extreme.
The prosecutions, and inevitable show trials, and their reciprocal repercussions down the road, would also be about politics, not justice. It would be disasterous, not only for this administration’s ability to simultaneously push its own agenda (in fact, libdave, Washington can’t walk and chew gum at the same time; other Washington business would come grinding to a halt. That does have a certain appeal, however . . . ), but for the precedents set that future administrations use the criminal courts to punish previous administrations for policy differences.
Be careful what you wish for; you might get it.
Evidence of allied resistance to US anti-terror tactics added yet another layer of controversy to an anguished debate about torture that has confounded Obama’s attempts to draw a curtain over the past and is threatening to overshadow his presidential record. One way or another the pressures to conduct a full investigation will become more than even Obama wants to face.
Philip Zelikow, a senior adviser to Condoleezza Rice, then secretary of state, revealed last week that “some of Europe’s best allies found it increasingly difficult to assist us in counterterrorism, because they feared becoming complicit in a program their governments abhorred”.
The fear of facing a war crimes court was enough to cause even our best allies to jump ship, and yell I want no part of what this fool is doing.
There were cia agents that refused to conduct the torture operations, revolt amongst the troops no stretch at all.
If there’s no distinction between criminal and political we’re all screwed anyway.
The GOP ditto-head Faux newsies would love to see no distinction between criminal and political. To their manner of thinking they are one and the same.
All they can do is follow Lardbutts lead, and “Hope for Failure”
When a bj is pushed so far as to become a criminal matter, you know the line has been pushed too far, and there’s no pulling it back.
opinioned1: Those same countries plus a few more ceased to share sensitive intellignece by reason of “W” and Cheney’s penchant for leaking stories for politial puropses, while outing allied intelligence services. The yellow cake disclosure did much damage to Brit agents with the Africans who easily determinded how this false claim could even surface.Only after Obama came in has the unimpeded flow of information started up again, the foreign press has known what’s coming out for years and reported it, not at all intimdated by their own governments.
If palin ever gets elected all the dems will have to do is launch a whitewater/sex investigation with a special prosecutor, and she’ll step aside for the good of the country.
Cost Clinton legal defense millions.
If Obama and biden ever start acting like bush/cheney, I’ll call for an investigation on them as well.
Great post, CF.
It’s as mentally stimulating as the CON posts are mind-numbing.
GMC claims that prosecuting torture is political.
REAL-ly? Political?
Ignoring what dragging the country through formal Senate impeachment hearings over a bl*wj*b was for the moment, one has to ask
* was Pinochet’s conviction political?
* was Ceausecu’s hanging political?
* were the Nuremburg trials political?
I gotta go with “no,” it was justice finally played out, but hey that’s just me.
Congress has a duty to the constitution to preserve their legitimate powers and role in the govt., that was my biggets gripe about the former rubber stamp repub. congress.
The boss said something, and they fell all over themselves to get it done, or make it so.
BTW, Panetta’s revelation that Cheney and the CIA were running black-ops known to no one for 7 plus years sure gives the lie to “the Democrats had the same intelligence that the RepubliCONs had before the war.”
Uh, that’s just the point.
They didn’t.
Wasn’t the cia transplanted or overruled by the ISG.
CapnAmerica
Posted July 13, 2009 at 3:33 pm | Permalink
Uh, that’s just the point.
They didn’t.
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Poor wittle victims.
Work that majority. Please.
Phantom
Posted July 13, 2009 at 3:14 pm | Permalink
If palin ever gets elected all the dems will have to do is launch a whitewater/sex investigation with a special prosecutor, and she’ll step aside for the good of the country.
Cost Clinton legal defense millions.
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You don’t step aside/resign as First Lady.
You get divorced.
BTW, it’s no surprise why the CONs are so insistent that “we all move on” past Bush, Cheney, and Palin, heh.
WorstPresidentEver.
WorstVicePresidentEver.
WorstCandidateEver.
By golly, the CONs hit the trifecta.
President Obama wants Congress and the country to focus on the future, not the past.
-Brownlee
BTW, it’s no surprise why the CONs are so insistent that “we all move on”
-Capn
I was not aware that Obama was a CON. It’s unfortunate that he wants to move on while the rest of us are excited about any possibility of a government stopping, media dominating investigation.
Obama is not a CON, obviously. He’s intelligent.
Just because he too wants to move on doesn’t mean he’s a CON.
Cons wear shoes. Obama wears shoes. So what?
Obama is not a CON, obviously. He’s intelligent.
So why would an intelligent man who is President of the United States be so wrong as to side with the unintelligent “CONS” on this issue?
Either the CONS aren’t so dumb, or the President is not so intelligent.
Whadaya think Capn?
Hmmm…I remember just a little over a month ago that the GOP demanded a bipartisan panel to investigate claims that the CIA lied to congress. Mysteriously, the Democrats shot it down.
House Republicans on Thursday demanded that a bipartisan panel investigate her allegations.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-05-22-boehner-pelosi-waterboarding_N.htm
Of course as the Capn says, CONS want to move on from investigating the CIA on whether it lied to congress or not. So apparently, according to Capn, the GOP is not lead by CONS.
Does the Capn know what he is talking about or what?
I think most Americans are smart enough to realize this whole sordid affair is an attempt to cover speaker Pelosio’s a*ss.
Gotta love Cheney’s attitude towards al Qaeda, as exemplified in this WE Blog photo.
Cheney kinda has that Wu Shocker Sneer.
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Barnie
Posted July 13, 2009 at 6:11 pm | Permalink
Cheney kinda has that Wu Shocker Sneer.
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I’ve always suspected that the poor man in perpetually constipated.
I think Cheney himself, bit the finger nails off, terrorist suspects.
He sure looks constipated.
Even the Libs on “This Week with Steffinopoulous” said this investigation would be a bad idea.
Didja see that round table? George Will, Lib, Lib, Lib, Lib and Lib. I call for a fairness doctrine.
Phantom
Posted July 13, 2009 at 3:15 pm | Permalink
If Obama and biden ever start acting like bush/cheney, I’ll call for an investigation on them as well.
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Investigating this crook “GW”, isn`t a “D” or a “R” endeavor, It`s what needs to be done to protect this nation from ever allowing another crook like him to hijack this nations intelligence service, and it`s troops to fight a war based on LIES and more LIES.
If it was any “D” or “R” president I would demand the same thing. The integrity of this nations future depends on finding out just how far out of bounds the criminal behavior of Bush/Cheney went.
It`s far beyond who ordered what, but who twister the facts and LIED to all American`s.
Investigate NOW!
GMC70,
Not much to add to the rejoinders left by others, except to note that the question of whether or not to investigate the emerging reports of wrongdoing by Dick Cheney is “political” in a sense not yet mentioned: namely, “political” in that the issues involved in the allegations are such as have the ability to collapse our system of government entirely.
If a renegade Vice-President Dick Cheney really had sole authority over programs that involved domestic surveillance, and if getting to the bottom of this isn’t of the highest importance for EVERY American, then there really isn’t anything left to salvage of our “political” order.
And if the investigation is hindered from going forward out of fear of what might be revealed, one has to ask what Cheney signed off on. Was it just domestic surveillance? Was it also CIA-style dirty tricks against political opponents? Was it a campaign of intimidation and blackmail vis a vis J. Edgar Hoover?
Or was it assassination of political opponents?
It is worth noting, GMC70, that in the afternoon’s press conference, Robert Gibbs refused to say whether or not President Obama had received a briefing on this program. I think it’s possible that the Administration doesn’t actually know what sort of “program” Cheney left in place. And that, itself, is cause enough to investigate.
I don’t think you, GMC70, can answer those questions one way or another. But among Americans loyal to the Constitution, GMC70, the discovery of a shadow government within the Federal government ought to provoke a different set of responses than your open threats of partisan warfare without end.
It goes back to the points in my earlier post which you ignored: that no challenge to our Constitutional government, from whatever quarter it comes, can be allowed to stand. Excusing Nixon and Reagan only created Dick Cheney. And if we immunize THIS miscreant from prosecution, who do we get next time? Stalin?
CF2K in another rant. You major in Drama or law?
“House Republicans on Thursday demanded that a bipartisan panel investigate her allegations.”
That was Thursday, this is Monday, doubt many feel the same way today.
This Cheney/bush scandal is waaaay bigger than Pelosi’s ass! I’ll leave it to HLP if it’s bigger than Michelle’s.
GMC70,
One more thing. Regarding investigation, you wrote the following:
“It would be disasterous, not only for this administration’s ability to simultaneously push its own agenda…but for the precedents set that future administrations use the criminal courts to punish previous administrations for policy differences.”
Please don’t conflate “policy differences” with what is at issue in the present case, namely, a back-channel program, in defiance of existing statute, that answered to Dick Cheney ALONE. Investigating the latter in no way establishes precedent for open season on the former.
Your reasoning, GMC70, hands a blank check/get out of jail free card to potential wrongdoing by future Executives–much as is currently the case. Hard to see how any other possible consequence is worse than that.
JimJones,
Neither. You’re as inept at judging who you’re dealing as you are intellectually dishonest in your depiction of current events.
CF2K
Posted July 13, 2009 at 10:05 pm | Permalink
JimJones,
Neither. You’re as inept at judging who you’re dealing as you are intellectually dishonest in your depiction of current events.
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Thank God. We have enough incompetent attorneys out there already.
Thank God. We have enough incompetent attorneys out there already.
And if “who you’re dealing” is some reference to your credibility, then anyone who reads your writing already knows the answer to that question. You are simply an inferior being, who pretends to stand on some throne, and you wrap yourself with your own compliments.
Suddenly, you of all people are concerned with those who challenge our Constitutional government.
Thanks for the laugh CF.
JimJohnson,
Nope: not an attorney. But thanks for playing.
As for “inferior being,” well, the rule of thumb, JimJohnson, is something like this: demonstrating an inability or an unwillingness to engage a substantive argument, as you have here, exhibits the very intellectual impotence characteristic of an “inferior being.” You’re out of your depth on every conceivable level. How’s that feel, JimJohnson?
Smugness and vapidity, JimJohnson, have been welcomed into your life. It would behoove you to do something about that.
“Smugness and vapidity, JimJohnson, have been welcomed into your life. It would behoove you to do something about that.”
Max won’t. It would too much change for him. But thanks for asking…
What, has the former vocal Obama critic ‘gone silent’, is he holed up in an undisclosed location?
“”I think this is a problem, obviously,” Feinstein said, adding that the law requires full disclosure of such operations to Congress.
The disclosure by Panetta to both the Senate and House intelligence committees about Cheney’s involvement was first reported in The New York Times.
Don’t Miss
Senator: Cheney and alleged secret CIA program ‘a problem’
Republicans, Democrats trade barbs on alleged CIA wrongdoing
House Dems: Panetta testified CIA has misled Congress repeatedly
Efforts to contact Cheney for reaction were unsuccessful.”
Even his daughter Liz isn’t commenting other than to say she doesn’t believe he did anything wrong.