The downtown area is started to look as good on the inside as it does on the outside. About 90 percent of the permanent seating is in, the hockey floor has been poured and workers are about to install terrazzo flooring in the main lobby. A video tour of the arena is on Kansas.com. The arena is scheduled to open in mid-January but may be completed three months early. Though the arena could still use more tenants besides the Wichita Thunder hockey team, it’s encouraging that sales of luxury suites and loge boxes seem to be going well, especially in this down economy.
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44 Comments
The promoters of the white elephant downtown Intrust Arena borrowed up to 1/2 billion dollars and still climbing from Sedgwick County and city of Wichita taxpayers to pay for this monstrosity. Admittedly most of the original promoters have since left Wichita for greener pastures.
It’s Kansas’ example of “Alaska’s bridge to nowhere.” It’s a good example of government building something best left to the private enterprise system. Government is supposed to concentrate on improving the dispensation of normal governmennt services and improving infrastructure but our amateur elected officials, particularly holdover county commissioners, Unruh and Tim Norton never understand that simple concept.
I think people who were interested in improving downtown Wichita now understand the cart got placed before the horse was even purchased.
I remember very will the condition of downtown Wichita in about 1996. Downtown Wichita was deteriorating but it still retained some vestiges of the downtown Wichita of its grand past. I recall the barber shop on Market Street about 1/4 block north of Douglas where the barber still cut hair and waved at passersby. The Bank IV building still had the busy cafeteria on the second floor and a busy banking business.
It was obvious downtown needed attention, lots of attention. But the City Council’s action was to hire a few feeble consultants and a downtown business corporation “executive.”
Two options existed:
1) Assemble all interested downtown supporters to talk, plan, get excited about revitalizing downtown Wichita back to its days of glory, or
2) Turn downtown Wichita over to a few out of town “planners” who quickly saw an easier but more profitable for them way to spend the taxpayers hard earned money. That was draw a circle around a piece of ground, hire architects, contractors and let them spend a portion of a billion dollars for the white elephant downtown arena. Then sell the public on the idea that the arena would “pump” additional billions into the downtown revitalization, a revitalization that hasn’t arrived.
So a few sports fan have their arena but Wichita hasn’t any revitalized downtown. The arena itself is a fuzz ball, it’s not designed to be used as a convention center which is what was really needed.
So arena supporters, you can call all the names you want to but facts are facts.
I recently ran across an interesting statistic in a recent pamphlet, “The case for downtown revitalization for Wichita, Kansas.” I presume it’s sponsored by the usual suspects, Visioneering, Downtown Development Corporation, the Chamber, etc., the very same organizations that sat back and smugly supported the failed “plan #2″ which I described above.
Their statistic is: “For every $1 of public investment, there will be $10 to $15 of private investment.”
The way I read that statistic, the public taxpayer spending on the new downtown arena of 1/2 billion dollars should be producing conservatively five billion or more dollars in PRIVATE downtown development dollars.
Haw, haw, haw. Has anyone seen any private downtown revitalization investment that isn’t heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars? Of course not.
The 1/2 billion arena dollars should have been used first of all to revitalize downtown. Then “foot prints” could have been reserved for an arena if needed. And for a new convention center that is needed. And for a sparkling new international bowling center with all the bells and whistles to really attract international visitors to Wichita from all over the world … a major money maker.
But out of towners, now mostly gone, got their way. Many of the same old vacant office buildings are still vacant downtown. The alleys are a danger zone. Windows are still broken.
And Wichita mayor, Carl Brewer, is once again trying to push water uphill by trying to revive interest in a downtown revitalization effort.
So, if I’m reading you right, “JWink,” –
I can put you down as against the new arena?
But I’m a liberal, which means I’m a realist.
For better or for worse the white elephant is sitting in Wichita’s living room.
Maybe it’s time to teach that elephant some tricks.
I don’t know what they might be.
Unlike OKC, this isn’t a building or a city or a market that’s gonna attract a major anchor tennant. Kansas City’s a better town with a better building in a better media market and it still doesn’t have one. Des Moines gets a lot of evangelist road shows…
Now that the arena is here, what can Wichita do to prevent 13,000 empty seats when the Thunder breaks it’s all time attendance record?
Perhaps that indoor lacrosse league. Far from major league, but it might turn into the mania that sustained the Colloseum back when indoor soccer was a fad.
Or perhaps someone could approach Lynette Woodard to front a WNBA franchise in her home town.
Yeah, they’re minor sports, but in Wichita they’d be big time.
When I moved to Wichita in 1980 I lived in an apartment complex above half-a-dozen minor league hockey players. (Can’t remember what the team was called back then.) Canadian kids, who drank Molson’s out on the balcony in the dead of winter.
And the Wings were kings!
According to Wikipedia, “At the time the Wings went out business, after the 2000-2001 season, they were the oldest professional soccer franchise in the United States.”
I think that’s funny.
I think it’s funny enough people got caught up in the arena dream it’s actually here.
Now what are they gonna do with it?
I suppose we could let Sue Schlapp do what she did with other city property, sell it to a church at a discount.
I have no parking space and no luxury suite box.
Therefore? I will NEVER go to the arena. Not ever. No way.
“it’s encouraging that sales of luxury suites and loge boxes seem to be going well, especially in this down economy.”
Why is that “encouraging”?
More like disgusting. The thing was built on the backs of the poor for the enjoyment of the rich. That the rich can still afford seats in their play thing is in no way encouraging to me.
This arena is going to be a big hit for downtown Wichita. When the concerts and shows start rolling in and people are downtown after 5PM, you will see businesses beginning to come back to life at night. Although I don’t live in Wichita anymore, I really hope this will turn out to be a good thing. It is just too bad that the religious nutcases blocked the casino out because that really could have helped too. I remember when I was young, downtown had some life at night- back when the Allis Hotel was open and the Fairland Cafe and the movie theatres were open. It died. And hopefully life will come back to it.
Now that the arena is here, what can Wichita do to prevent 13,000 empty seats when the Thunder breaks it’s all time attendance record?
To answer that question, I would say that Wichita can book lots more concerts. Alot of concerts bypass Wichita because they do not have a facility that has open dates for the show that can be put into the tour dates for the acts. This will mean more shows will stop and play Wichita.
Actually, even without a permanent tenant the Sprint Center is doing well, and it compliments the Power and Light District. Furthermore, apparently parking is not the issue that I thought it would have been.
Wichita, being on I-35 between KC and OKC, is in the position to get acts into the building. And it’s here. Griping about it being a “white elephant” is nothing but sour grapes at this point. It is not automatically doomed to be a failure (and by the way, defining whether it is a success or failure is not done by assessing whether it makes a profit within itself, but how it compliments Old Town and downtown redevelopment. Other cities have been successful in turning their downtowns around (from Chicago to KC), why not Wichita?
“To answer that question, I would say that Wichita can book lots more concerts. Alot of concerts bypass Wichita because they do not have a facility that has open dates for the show that can be put into the tour dates for the acts. This will mean more shows will stop and play Wichita.”
Another factor was the Kansas Coliseum itself. The acoustics were awful, particularly for rock concerts (some of the best, most musically gifted bands in history have been reduced to distorted noise in the Coliseum). Hopefully the Intrust Arena will be better (it can’t be worse, and is almost certain to be better, most venues are substantially better).
The ‘jawless fish’ appears to be an expert on determining the difference between acid rock concerts and distorted noise.
The Coliseum has infamously poor acoustics. My god, that place was horrible.
I have to admit that the arena looks impressive in the video file you can view on kansas.com. Although I think the exposed brick motif is overexposed itself these days, the bar area with its two viewing patios looked very nice.
The only good place to hear music now in Wichita is the Cotillion, which frankly is too small to attract some great rock acts. Hopefully the Intrust Arena will fill the breech.
By the way, even though the inside is unfinished it reminds me of the Ted Constant Convention Center on the campus of Old Dominion University here in Virginia. A very similar look.
I caught the Kings of Leon there in May. Great show, not a sellout though. Lots of Irish and St George’s cross flags there (the KoL are huge in UK and Europe).
If Wichita can attract acts like the Kings of Leon, that would be very cool for yall.
Perhaps after the downtown arena becomes an abysmal failure, they’ll turn it into a casino.
That is, if they ever figure out how to deal with the parking. They had put a pdf file on the parking plan but failed to actually post the pdf for people to see, I’m wondering if that was an intentional oversight.
I really miss the Wichita Wings, but if they brought the wings back, I wouldn’t risk my life in traffic to get there. They’d have to go back to the Coliseum.
“Regular” contributes this important comment on the Wichita downtown arena –
Posted July 12, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
The ‘jawless fish’ appears to be an expert on determining the difference between acid rock concerts and distorted noise.
First off, we’re discussing the prospects of an entertainment venue that’s soon to open in Wichita.
Second, no band plays “acid rock” anymore. Ol’ “Regular” might as well have complained about “…kids these days with their ‘yeah-yeah-yeah’ music and Beatles haircuts!” (Then wave his cane as he chases them from playing on his lawn.)
Third: It’s pretty evident ol’ “Regular” just couldn’t resist yet another opportunity to snipe at “…the jawless fish.” Inexplicably, this causes no shortage of entertainment to ol’ “Regular” for reasons unbeknown to anyone else on the planet.
Bottom Line — There’s nothing about ol’ “Regular’s” post but a pathetic attempt at another unprovoked personal attack.
But back to the subject at hand –
The Power & Light district in Kansas City is teetering on success, pretty much abandoned on nights when there’s not a show at the Sprint building. There’s no regular attraction to the arena (anchor tenant) such as a big league hockey or basketball franchise to provide thirty or forty locked in dates.
The economics of arena acts in the music biz are marginal at best in a 15,000 house. (Whether they play “acid rock” or not.)
The taxpayers of Oklahoma are paying goo-gobs of money to the Seattle Pilots so they’ll call themselves the “Oklahoma City Thunder” and justify a dozen or so NBA hangers-on to rent a condo six months a year. (I mean, if you were an NBA player, would you choose Oklahoma City as your home?)
I would hope someone in Sedgwick County has done the research and determined Hannah Montana or Brittney Spears might sell out InTrust Arena given the chance.
Get thirty of those acts booked and the arena might get by without an anchor tenant. ‘Til then, it’s a really iffy proposition.
But ol’ “Regular” is worried about “acid rock.”
But I’m a liberal, which means I’m a realist
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
deep breath
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks, MH. I haven’t laughed that hard in a long time.
Indeed MonkeyHawk,
The interaction between Agnatha aka ‘the jawless fish’ and myself is stylized and directed at him for the purpose of interpersonal mental intimacy.
It has no agenda, nor does it mean any less or any more than what it means.
The arena was misconceived from the start, with traffic and parking problems left unaddressed and no real purpose other than supplying tax funds for construction companies. I’ll be generous and say that it will limp along for five years before it’s permanently closed.
They’ve been trying to revive downtown Wichita for 40 years or more. Maybe it’s time to give up on the CPR, fill out the death certificate and admit that cities grow on the outer edges, not in the middle. Turn the downtown area into a city park or back to farm land and be done with it.
Uh-oh –
Ol’ “Regular” decides to share his “intimate” secrets.
“The interaction between Agnatha aka ‘the jawless fish’ and myself is stylized and directed at him for the purpose of interpersonal mental intimacy.”
I’m sure you think he loves it when you talk dirty.
Have tickets been advertised yet for any events?
I am just curious, I doubt I will visit the arena unless it’s a musical event.
Ant,
I can’t afford tickets, and neither can about half the population of Wichita, given the layoffs. Advertising an event now would be a waste of money.
Why do very few of the river front businesses (Gndr. Mtn.) use the river as a jewel?
(I know, off subject, but I am an import from the desert)
#
Pedant
Posted July 12, 2009 at 12:31 pm | Permalink
The Coliseum has infamously poor acoustics. My god, that place was horrible.
I have to admit that the arena looks impressive in the video file you can view on kansas.com. Although I think the exposed brick motif is overexposed itself these days, the bar area with its two viewing patios looked very nice.
The only good place to hear music now in Wichita is the Cotillion, which frankly is too small to attract some great rock acts. Hopefully the Intrust Arena will fill the breech.
———–
The new Hartman Arena will be tough competition for the Intrust Arena. It is right sized, easily accessible, with a lot of parking.
“Jed” –
Fact is, a more concentrated population center is much more efficient than urban sprawl.
But ex-farmland on the fringes of Wichita is so damned cheap.
With a thoughtful infrastructure, parking and traffic around the InTrust Arena would be a non-issue. You’d drive to the rapid transit station in Valley Center or Haysville or El Dorado and get off the train near the arena’s front door.
Alas… just about no community in America approaches urban infrastructure that way.
Jed,
What are the projected ticket cost? The ones you can’t afford?
“GMC70″ must be collecting overtime today.
Or else he’s posting on his own dime for a change.
BTW Jed, the arena in my mind, as an outsider, was a horrible idea, especially in the location chosen.
“Let’s build it and worry about how people will get to, well it, later” – Stupidest Engineering Idea Ever
P.S. Let’s tax some folks for the fuq up.- SG & COW
Ant,
Much over $30 for an evening’s entertainment would be too much for most of us unless it was something earth-shaking, and the arena’s too small for those.
Monk,
Drive to someplace else and take a train back to town? Much too inconvenient for most people, and not nearly as cost-effective as decent on-site parking and a traffic plan! If you have to go someplace else anyway, why put an arena downtown?
Monk,
Most of the people who buy those sprawl houses are trying like hell to get away from concentrated population centers. That was a modernist idea that was tried in the 1950’s and ’60’s and failed miserably, with most of those housing projects deteriorated or dynamited.
The Hartman Arena is way too small to attract big name events into town.
We went downtown Friday night, July 3rd, for the First Friday music. We were in and out of at least eight businesses during our several hours there, always found a place to sit together even tho our group was 10 people. The streets had more pedestrians than usual, but weren’t crowded. There was no convenient place to park. We walked about five blocks from the spot we finally found to park the two cars our group came in to get to Old Town. So on a night when you could find empty seats in every place you couldn’t find a convenient parking space. We wondered if everyone (except us) had come alone in their car.
Jed
Posted July 12, 2009 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
Ant,
Much over $30 for an evening’s entertainment would be too much for most of us unless it was something earth-shaking, and the arena’s too small for those.
—————-
Hell yes, I agree!
“Jed” –
Actually, those places for whom population concentration has been forced upon them — by geography and other reasons — have generally worked out okay.
That is, after all, the reason for cities and civilization.
New York City is an island. San Francisco is a peninsula. They have mass transit and sustain concentrated populations and do fine without acres upon acres of parking lots.
I have a friend who lives in the Hancock Building in Chicago. Her commute is 40 seconds on an elevator. She gets to Cubs games and clubs and restaurants and the theatre on trains and hasn’t felt the need to own a car since 1993.
Now, yes.
A change in stuff we all take for granted will mean a… uhm… change.
But if there were a train to Wichita I’d probably visit Wichita more often than I do, simply because I don’t like the long drive all that much.
If there were a farmers’ market and a grocery store and a dry cleaner and a cab or a train to get to meetings I might buy a loft near Old Town.
You may think it’s suburban heaven to mow your 3-acre lawn every two weeks, but I’d prefer a couple hours browsing in the air conditioned bookstore down the block.
Different strokes… and all that.
Back to the thread topic –
I don’t think the InTrust Arena gets us any closer to such a lifestyle.
Regardless of how the voters of Wichita got conned into building the thing, the InTrust Arena is here and now.
Dealing with it seems a more productive strategy than carping about it.
So far, no CON has come forth with any ideas to that end.
I have a friend who lives in the Hancock Building in Chicago. Her commute is 40 seconds on an elevator. She gets to Cubs games and clubs and restaurants and the theatre on trains and hasn’t felt the need to own a car since 1993.
===================
I for one would rather be more free and less prisoned.
I would love a rail line to Wichita from the suburbs…It wouldn’t take much in my opinion. El Dorado (where I live) already has a beautiful depot and I am sure a rail line to Wichita. That line is hardly ever used for freight trains so why not put it to use?
I think ‘progressive’ means constrictive.
Kinda like a snake in a chute house. (cattle reference to the idiots)
No, they have not announced any acts so far. I assume the opening act will be a classic rock show such as the Eagles or Paul McCartney…however it has been said neither of those people will open it. However, the arena is opening at an odd time. All of the big tours going on right now will be over by then. Britney Spear’s CIRCUS tour is ending and so is Miley Cyrus’s. Those two shows would sell out very easy.
Monk,
Yeah, I spent some time in NYC (East Village) and found it too high pressure, too crowded, too unfriendly and too high-crime. Much prefer a bit of elbow room and the opportunity to play my acoustic guitar without someone banging on the wall. I also watched them dynamite several housing projects that had become unlivable. Simply concentrating people doesn’t work.
Yeah, a decent mass transit like they have in New York would be nice, but it’s been tried numerous times here and never managed to gain enough riders to succeed. We have the space for cars here and very few people want to give up the independence a car offers, even with $4 gas.
And I only have a quarter-acre, a neighbor kid who mows it and my own AC from which I can order my books online.
And no, the arena isn’t going to change my lifestyle a bit until I have to pay more taxes to have the stupid thing torn down!
“ANTI” whines –
“I think ‘progressive’ means constrictive. “
Yup.
Pretty much.
That’s also the definition of civilization.
I mean, who is the government to force me to drive on the right side of the yellow line, anyway?
Take your damned red light and stop you’re own self! I am a free man!
The only-est reason in the history of the world why we’re not all living in our separate caves out chasing wildebeests with spears and slings on the Serengeti is it makes more sense to move into town and pay someone to bake bread for a bunch of other people in return for other goods and services.
And if you’re really intent on embracing your inner Dan’al Boone, do as he did. The only reason he moved west was he thought there was too much “civilization” if he could see the smoke from a “neighbor’s” cabin.
Move out, “Jed,” and kill you a b’ar.
There’s plenty of open spaces for you to escape to. It’s a big country.
But try to deal with the concept most of us depend on other people to get along in life.
I could go out, kill a cow, grind some meat, milk another cow and make some cheese, plant and harvest and grind and bake wheat into a bun and come up with a double cheeseburger, or pay McDonald’s a dollar to do it for me. But that would involve “other people,” now wouldn’t it?
And that, “ANTI,” would be “constrictive,” I guess.
As I posted earlier today, CONs seem to be so butterflies-and-teddy-bears-and-unicorn idealists until you’re faced with, y’know, reality.
Sometimes when I hear Libertarian claptrap I have to resist the urge to say, “Here’s your spear, there’s your cave, there’s a bison, deal with it.”
Monk,
Haven’t killed me a b’ar and don’t intend to. I have grown my own food, butchered my own meat, squeezed my own milk, churned my own butter, etc., but I’m not anti-civilization. I’m pointing out that the modernist concept of mass housing was built on the marxist model of “the masses” and not what people really are, and was proven a disaster. No realistic urban designer is likely to return to that model and I’m suggesting we don’t.
KEV said “Alot of concerts bypass Wichita because they do not have a facility that has open dates for the show that can be put into the tour dates for the acts.”
Conflicts for concerts come from other users of a facility, like team sports. League schedules are set and other users need to fit around them. Having *one* new arena won’t fix that.
A promoter with a show that *might* sell out Hartman (6000) would be silly to present it at IBA because he’d pay for capacity he can’t sell. OTOH he’d be silly to put a 8000+ potential act at Hartman.
In the long term having both IBA & Hartman Arena will be good for entertainment choices in Wichita. I think you’ll see new thinking at Century II that will make it more attractive to promoters to bring concerts back there. The Cotillion and Orpheum will continue to fill the need for mid-sized venues.
My only fear is that Wichitans will do what they do best: nothing. If you want entertainment choices you need to support entertainment.