Whatever one thinks of what George Tiller did for a living, and for the thousands of women who visited his East Kellogg clinic over the decades, the only appropriate response to his murder Sunday was shock, followed by condemnation, our editorial today argues.
The overwhelming majority of those who consider themselves pro-life in the community and country do not advocate or condone the killing of abortion providers. Several local and national pro-life groups responded to the murder with unequivocal condemnation.
Still, sadly, it won’t be surprising if the searing heat of the debate, and the extreme name-calling directed by some toward Tiller, once again motivated someone to think such an act of violence was justifiable.
It can be hoped that in dealing with the horror of Tiller’s murder, people will pause to consider what the abortion wars have wrought, and whether there might be a better way.
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Now we know the term “pro-life no longer applies to advocates of illegal abortion.
I thought this was a thread for appropriate responses?
One that I would define of condelones and condemnation.
Look in the mirror. Only one side is throwing around blanket statements here.
Here is the inappropriate response one good reverend posted about Dr. Tiller’s murder. He complains that honest pro-lifers should be dancing in the streets in celebration!
“In contrast we have crocodile tears flowing from Kansas “pro-life” leadership over the shooting of serial killer George Tiller.
Rather than rejoice in the fact that Tiller’s hands will never dismember another child, they pretend to mourn, and publicly denounce the man who did this righteous deed. I say they pretend to mourn, for if they were really grieved over Tiller’s death they were insincere about condemning his baby-killing operation.
“Baby-mongers” are those who profit from the demise of aborted children by weakly defending them. In an attempt to preserve their donor base they take an untenable position of grieving over the lose of a stinking baby-killer giving comfort to baby’s enemy.
Would they prefer Tiller alive tearing apart helpless babies so they can bilk the pro-life community for more money?
Would to God that Tiller’s death would put them all out of business as they have built their “ministries” around him.”
dan holman
Missionaries to the Pre-born, Iowa
Steve Wetzel of Widhita’s “Missionaries to the Unborn” shares Holman’s view that their movement ought to be celebrating Dr. Tiller’s murder as a victory against abortion.
I tend to agree that many of the tears shed by the nation’s pro-lifers have crocodilian DNA. They are afraid, with good reason that they’ll catch much of the fallout from the murder, immediately in the form of a quick confirmation of Justice Sotomayor, and in the long-term for their use of personal attack rhetoric and demonizing doctors, and in general proclaiming that any action is justified in god’s name. They’re gonna suffer from that! This murder, the one they asked for, will set their cause back immeasurably.
Defend Scott Roeder all you want, “Mr_Kia.”
You obviously think that’s “appropriate.”
I find it odd that all the Nominations by Obama are attached to grief and lie’s. Sebelius, Sonomayor. Sebelius vetoed the Late Term Abortion Bill. So some jerk Murders Dr. Tiller. I don’t agree with Abortion, but I believe in the Law and it’s Process. After the trial he had I feel he would have followed that Law if she did not veto it. This is 2 nominee’s attached to Obama and Abortion. Controversy during confirmation? Swine Flu, Taxes, Abortion and Murder. Change???????? Eitherway, Murder show’s weakness. Communication and social, legal resolve is the true Democracy, Soldier’s are being killed over to preserve. Dr. Tiller was killed ILLEGALLY for functioning LEGALLY. He, like everyone on the planet, did not please or agree with everyone. He did function within the LAW. If we don’t like the LAW, we approach Legislation and LOBBY to change what we don’t like. We Lobby, Vote and express verbally. We are not allowed to Kill to express our views. There is not a Law that grant’s this. Murder is Murder! I contacted Dr. Tiller’s Lawyer during his trial and expressed Dr. Tiller deserves DUE PROCESS and that I personaly condemn Abortion. I was a Candidate for Governor when I did this. I have since resigned do to the level of corruption I see across the Legislative and Governors Office in Topeka. One person should never be allowed to make a complete and single difference. That supports and condones, Dictatorship. I will consider running again once people disclose that they are running as Representatives and Senators, to remove the current Legislation and to stop their Re-Election bid. We will see what the election tone brings. Herbert West 3rd, {D}, Former Candidate for Kansas Governor 2010. HerbertIII at twitter.com west.herb@yahoo.com
“It can be hoped that in dealing with the horror of Tiller’s murder, people will pause to consider what the abortion wars have wrought, and whether there might be a better way.”
There is Brownlee, there most certainly is….stop the killing of innocent life, both the babies and the really late term terminations like Tiller’s.
Thanks to all who showed up or wanted to show up last night. It was organized on the spur of the moment and there was a large turnout. No thanks to the fundies who came there to cause trouble.
I was shocked and horrified that someone chose to take Tiller’s life at his church. By doing so, the killer deserves the full penalty of the law regardless of what Tiller has done.
Like the touchy issue of slavery, The Abortion controversy will not go away peacefully.
How do you reconcile the absolute fact of what happens when a human baby is aborted with the fact that our society supposedly condemns murder?
The same case was made against slavery. The country that claims that all men are created equal, at one time permited the obvious unequal institution of slavery.
It is very unfortunate however, that many can not handle their disagreement without engendering hatred in their hearts.
“The overwhelming majority of those who consider themselves pro-life in the community and country do not advocate or condone the killing of abortion providers.”
You mean they won’t admit to it.
Truly pro life people are few and far between and in four years of posting here I have only ever run onto one.
stop the killing of innocent life, both the babies and the really late term terminations like Tiller’s.
______________________________________________
Tiller’s death is very sad. At least he was allowed to learn to walk before he was killed.
As we learned with Rudolph, Hill, Shannon, et al, there’s a network of domestic terrorists who knew and supported Scott Roeder over the years.
Their extremism gives so-called “mainstream” advocates of illegal abortion some wiggle worm so they can say, “I regret George Tiller’s murder, BUT….”
Anyone who’s paid attention pretty much knows the CONs of this forum are dancing on George Tiller’s grave this morning. And they’ve probably re-aimed their efforts — and guns — against Warren Hern.
The most disturbing reaction to yesterday’s tragedy is when Operation Rescue referred to “Mr.” Tiller.
But it’s always “DOCTOR” Pat Robertson.
“It can be hoped that in dealing with the horror of Tiller’s murder, people will pause to consider what the abortion wars have wrought, and whether there might be a better way.”
The “war” is over. It has been for a long time.
TRULY pro life people need to devote their efforts toward social and economic programs that support their views and quit trying to legislate morality. We can no longer tolerate their dissent and their refusal to accept reality.
ROFLMAO!
The assassin, a registered republican, had a fish symbol and a “Jesus” bumper sticker on his car.
For all those yesterday who said we dont know anything about this guy…
Are you really that stupid? Did you really NOT think he was a christianist, conservative, republican? Really?
It was fun watching wingnuts whistle in the dark to assuage their fears. Deny, deflect, defend.
Now that the truth is coming out, their denial is just… sad….
Remind me again, who would Jesus kill?
A few shallow thinking opportunists like, well most of the liberals on this blog, take the occasion of a cold blooded killing by a deranged individual to attempt to score political points. They do this by trying to tar a movement of millions of good, well meaning people with the acts of this individual.
I know, it is hard to understand why anyone would buy that garbage. But due to emotions, some will. The kind that feel instead of think. Liberals do really well with that type.
The best that can be done is to point out their intellectual dishonesty and their ghoulish use of the corpse of Dr. Tiller.
XXX
Posted May 31, 2009 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
#
okobserver
Posted May 31, 2009 at 12:20 pm | Permalink
And to my knowledge we don’t know anything about him, his religion, or his party affiliation do we?
______________
Doesn’t take much of a stretch to guess that this was done by some radical fundamentalist Republican.
_______________________
Just as I said yesterday.
Any more questions?
A murderer is murdered.
The state will now sentence the murderer of the murderer to death.
And so murderer will murder the murderer of the murderer.
Such is mankind.
Abortion will end instantly once women decide that they don’t want one.
Boxie gets his wish.. Dr. Tiller no longer helps women who discover late in their pregnancy that something was going horribly wrong in their womb.
Again…
Scott Roeder, KFN and MH: all extremists.
No matter how much you hate Christians, or those of faith, no matter how much you hate God for what God’s nature is and how that is so vastly different than yours, God loves you.
I don’t see how God possible could, but it’s fortunate for you God is patient and slow to anger.
Roeder no more represents the values of pro-life Christians than you do kfg, in fact his are far more in line with your values of hate, including your self-hate and the reason you are so repulsively obnoxious.
Chew on that awhile chicken farmer.
PS: I notice you can’t support your lies of last night…..but of course. You are simply irrelevant.
“deranged individual ”
Uh huh. The old “he was just a nut!” defense.
Oh he was a nut ok. But he was an organized and devoted and networked nut. You cons are going to have to own that AND recognize it. IF you can correct it, you had best get started.
I bet the celebration at outie’s house yesterday was monster.
I wonder if he had advance notice so he could stock up on pork rinds and beer for the big celebration?
Deny, deflect, defend.
Remind me again, who would Jesus kill?
________________________________________
See John 3:16
Yeah bigotbawks. Just wait. I have it on good authority what is going on with the tech side of this blog today.
It’s only a matter of time.
“God loves you.”
Yeah, I really feel that when the faithful go about murdering people.
“A murderer is murdered”
Huh?
Dr. Tiller operated (under much harassment) in this community for years. He was never convicted of any wrong doing.
Oh worry of worries!
You couldn’t find your butt with both hands kfg, let alone know anything about that.
Like I said….totally irrelevant, and really quite sad.
Cud-chewer saysj-
““God loves you.”
Yeah, I really feel that when the faithful go about murdering people.”
…or when the faithful go about butchering babies??
“RFL” equates the cold blooded murder of Dr. Tiller –
“Like the touchy issue of slavery, The Abortion controversy will not go away peacefully.”
Well, DAY-yum!
Why didn’t I think of that!
We need to raise money to finance a mural of Scott Roeder on the walls of the Kansas State House!
Just like John Brown!
They’re already in the middle of renovations, a little addition shouldn’t be all that problematic.
Send your contributions to jeremy_shops@hotmail.com for the Roeder/Tiller Debate Mural Fund, which will assure this “just like slavery” event will be forever preserved in Kansas history!
(jeremy_shops@hotmail.com, btw, is the same screwball who was raising money for my gubernatorial candidacy, despite the fact I am not now nor have I ever been a candidate for Kansas Governor.)
And isn’t it interesting how “RFL” still thinks the issue of slavery is “touchy?”
There is a very real chance that the Feds could get involved in this prosecution. They should. This needs prosecuted as an act of domestic terrorism. Any person or organization that the perpetrator can be linked to should be on a watch list.
I see KFG is still spewing her anti-Christian, anti-Conservative hate speech.
Thus, the day after, the Libs will march through the streets, flailing their backs with whips, like the Shia march in Iraq.
The question remains is whether the Tiller faithful will form ’stomata’ wounds and pose for National Enquirer.
XXX if you think from the few things revealed here about this killer that you know who he is then you must have ESP. This man is no more representative of the pro-life movement than Fred Phelps is of the democrat party.
Why the left is using this murder to slam Christians and conservatives just shows the real weakness of their social positions.
Oh Blue you don’t know the half of it.
How about we waterboard Roeder until he conmfesses all the names of his conspirators!?
What fun!
satatom supports torture.
It is interesting that while We Blog occasionally gets a little ‘rowdy’, with some personal bantering present in the discussions it remains pretty calm until the chicken lessie kfg shows up after an absence.
Then it immediately descends into a cesspool from where she (?) came.
This was the threat from bigotbawks that has been forwarded to law enforcement, not to mention the WE blog administrators.
#
Boxlock20
Posted May 31, 2009 at 9:38 pm | Permalink
“I believe we ALL read your “Tiller got his justice” post.”—resident repulsive queer
And a liar to boot. Never said I thought that, I said that there is an old saying that one that “lives by the sword, dies by the sword” and that it was something to think about.
Maybe you should too kfg.”
It’s only a matter of time.
I wonder what nic he’ll come back and use when he gets banned THIS time?
anti is mentally playing with himself (as usual)
I hope there’ll be stepped up surveilance of the RWE fringe. Could start the process with a Weblog monitor.
I watched FOX streaming headline, didn’t see any mention of Tiller.
This was the bigot’s first post stating essentially that Tiller got what he deserve• Boxlock20
Posted May 31, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Permalink
“I, for one, am not surprised that this man of sanitized violence met a violent end.”—outlander
An almost poetic statement.
I grieve for the Tiller family, I sincerely do, and am sick that this kind of thing can happen in our so called civilized society.
But I too am not surprised. It reminds me of the age old statement that “those that live by the sword die by the sword”. And maybe this is exactly what has happened.
Legal or not many consider abortion the violent taking of innocent life. Even though legal, Tiller lived by ending life, and even though legally innocent….he died by violence.
Sad all around, for all involved.”
I think anyone can read that a figure out what was meant. The specific threat to me came at 9:38 pm.
Good morning, XXX
The point of the fanatics and their rush to judgement was, they didn’t know anything about the killer yet they immediately used Dr Tiller’s death to spew their hate against Christians, pro-lifers and anyone else that didn’t agree with their political philosophy.
Even the dumbest amongst us could guess that the nut that killed Tiller was some kind of right wing extremist. The fact that he is does not excuse the nastiness and hate demonstrated on the BLOG early yesterday.
Now, the extreme lefties are in the process of turning Dr Tiller into a martyr for political gain. Shameless.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:26 am | Permalink
This was the threat from bigotbawks that has been forwarded to law enforcement, not to mention the WE blog administrators.
===============================
Cry Baby.
Oops…are you going to report me?
“Could start the process with a Weblog monitor.”
No.
Law enforcement is working on it right now. So are the WE people.
Watch which nics disappear, all at the same time.
The spoofers are being dealt with.
Again.
Whoooaaaa… boxlicker finally broke the law and made a threat against someone’s life?
Sorry boxlick but I’m firing off emails to the Eagle as well…hate crimes on the blog should be prosecuted!
AmWay, Calling Dr. Tiller a “murderer’ is the very kind of thing that leads to these assassinations.
The word murder has a meaning in law. Dr. Tiller was not a muderer. HE was a doctor delivering legal medical services to those who came to him of their own free will.
Just because you “murder’ the English language, are you deserving to take a headshot from an English major?
HLP your boy child is a right wing extremist or hadn’t you noticed?
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
I offer the cons a chance to prove their good will.
Or at least fake it.
The poster “parkay” adds nothing here. He has never engaged in substantive discussion and his cut and paste stories seek only to inflame. I submit that he should be banned from this forum. Seconds?
I looked at MSNBC, ABC, CNNNEWS and other online news service – and guess what?
Only Fox News has front page coverage of Tiller’s murder.
The other news service put the news of Tiller in small font, somewhere down the page below stories on Germany’s Opel and fondue recipes.
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink
There is a very real chance that the Feds could get involved in this prosecution. They should. This needs prosecuted as an act of domestic terrorism. Any person or organization that the perpetrator can be linked to should be on a watch list.
—————–
Get a grip Jr. You are over reacting to this senseless murder. I don’t remember you being this upset when the WTCs fell and over 3,000 were killed.
The abortion problem will never be changed by murders like this one or by legislation. Man’s heart will have to change to recognize what it really is.
Tiller is said by many to be a kind man. I will let it go at that. He will be missed by many including his family and friends. Don’t use this senseless rage turn his death into a circus event.
okobserver
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:23 am | Permalink
XXX if you think from the few things revealed here about this killer that you know who he is then you must have ESP. This man is no more representative of the pro-life movement than Fred Phelps is of the democrat party.
________________________
Okobserver, I think the man IS representative of the pro-life movement. Sure, most pro-lifers aren’t going to go out and kill somebody figuratively, but in your hearts…
Tiller isn’t even in a box yet and the Left has bast@rdized his death for their own gain.
That is sick.
Suspect in George Tiller shooting is linked to anti-government group
Comments (0)
BY JUDY L. THOMAS
Kansas City Star
The suspect in custody in connection with the slaying of abortion doctor George Tiller was a member of an anti-government group in the 1990s and a staunch opponent of abortion.
===================================
Without comment…
Bluejay I have an idea. The hateful slings that come daily from the left need to go away. They serve no useful purpose. They do nothing to help the Tiller family with the grief they are going thru. They are only put on here to incense and create division.
The postings of KFG are outrageous and lies to boot. Where is your outrage about that?
I say we ban all devisive postings and only post those things that are attempting to dialogue in a responsible adult manner.
Any seconds?
My weblog is running extremely slow, must be alot of data mining going on.
XXX says-” I think the man IS representative of the pro-life movement. Sure, most pro-lifers aren’t going to go out and kill somebody figuratively, but in your hearts…”
Grow TFU.
“most Bush Haters aren’t going to go out and kill Bush figuratively, but in your hearts….”
See, two effing idiots can play that game.
You should be above that kind of mindless shiitte.
I submit that he should be banned from this forum. Seconds?
____________________________
I submit parkey consistently brings more to the BLOG that you or many others of your ilk bring to the BLOG.
If we start banning people, parkey would be lower on the list than you would be.
When has he ever engaged in personal attacks? Never.
When has he ever done anything but bring posts that support his views? Never.
When has he ever condemned anyone personaly for having a different viewpoint than his? Never.
When has he ever in a childish and stupid post ever threatened to spit on anyone? Never.
I rest my case.
“Get a grip Jr. You are over reacting to this senseless murder. I don’t remember you being this upset when the WTCs fell and over 3,000 were killed.
……..
Don’t use this senseless rage turn his death into a circus event.” [okobserver]
Very interesting….
Okie, you would have NO idea whether or how much BlueJay was upset by 9/11… Good grief woman, surely you dont think the WEBlog was running then???
Also interesting….
I posted something yesterday to the effect that perhaps Tiller’s family might want to keep funeral services more or less limited to family, friends, and a few specially invited — And “Johnson” posted a most demeaning statement about my comment… Yet, you post essentially the same sentiment, and none of your Righties castigate you for it??
Most interesting….
If I dont want to see a circus event, it’s BAD…
Okie doesnt want to see a circus event… and it’s Good…
That’s the way the CON ball bounces… amazing happens here, and it isnt even the NBA!! :-)
Dr. Tiller was a courageous man, he had to have been in order to have continued his work.
A lesser man would have long ago stopped and left it to the next Doctor. He would have to believe in what he was doing was right. Doing what you think is right is not always easy and when adding in that by doing so could and in the end did mean your death.
The focus has always been on how many of the unborn were lost, but there must be someone though I doubt anyone here know how many women’s life were saved by Dr. Tiller? His life and in the end the lives of the unborn had been turned into a point-counter point in an argument where human lives were relegated to nothing more than a Politic agenda. One where real solutions are forsaken in order to continue the argument by both sides.
Dr. Tiller died for nothing, yesterday I read from another blog the comment: “Think of all the lives saved by his death!”. I did and the answer is a simple “none” no lives have been saved and at LEAST two were lost.
I say least because there are those incident where the choice is the baby or the mother.
In the political agenda it was turned into his life and work as a whole had to be demonized to admit there might be there is some reason and better thoughts of. Goes against the thought it was all about making money and being a monster.
The other player in this tragedy, the man who killed him threw away all he held dear for nothing!
The sun rose this morning and abortions will continue. He saved no unborn as when a abortion seems the only reasonable option it will be found. His actions will hinder the pro-life cause and those who truly believe in that cause. He sacrificed his freedom and life for nothing no gain and no end.
It maybe hard for some to feel any sympathy for Dr. Tiller, for others it maybe hard to feel any sympathy for his killer. But two men lives ended yesterday, for that I do feel sympathy as it was all for nothing.
Rest in peace Dr. Tiller you were a courageous man
I posted bigotbawks threats verbatim, with time stamp so you can go to yesterday’s open thread and see them for yourselves.
Or have they disappeared? heheheheh
Lies. Uh huh. Only okie would think something that she can see with her own eyes is a lie.
I suspect that parkay is someone’s sock puppet. There can’t be such a one dimensional person, can there? Yet, from what I read this Shoeder guy was being described as obsessed with abortions, so maybe I’m wrong.
Didn’t Obama warn us during the campaign about the religious nuts grasping their guns?
It maybe hard for some to feel any sympathy for Dr. Tiller, for others it maybe hard to feel any sympathy for his killer. But two men lives ended yesterday, for that I do feel sympathy as it was all for nothing.- writerdog
===============================================
Well said.
…and clinging to their bibles?
Deny. Deflect. Defend.
Phantom
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:20 am | Permalink
I suspect that parkay is someone’s sock puppet. There can’t be such a one dimensional person, can there?
=========================
Cosmos.
“My weblog is running extremely slow, must be alot of data mining going on.”
Ya think?
KFG
It doesnt constitute a threat. It constitutes him getting into your head It’s almost laughable.
Put on your big girl pants.
We’ll see, now wont we?
The Montana Freemen were a Christian Patriot group based near the town of Jordan in the U.S. state of Montana.
The Montana Freemen claimed to believe in the doctrine of individual sovereignty as expounded by the Sovereign Citizen Movement, and rejected the authority of the United States federal government. As a result of these claimed beliefs, they attempted to set up their own parallel systems of government (”Justus Township”), common-law court, banking, and credit. They became publicly known during their 81-day-long standoff with U.S. Marshals from March 25 through June 13, 1996.
Sounds like alot of the posters here, as far as his deeply held convictions. (Obama’s coming for our guns, an armed militia is our constitutional right. etc.)
I think KFG needs the Waaaaaaambulance.
Chas maybe it is because I don’t deride the person I am talking to as you do all the time when addressing me. Look at your posts to me yesterday. Totally off the point. Just personal attacks and not one apology from you.
The left is using this tragedy to flame today and you are joining the frey.
I will no longer respond to the posts that are just meant to irritate others. That would be Jr all of the time and you part of the time. KFG was disgraceful yesterday in what she was posting. Turning this senseless death into a soapbox for her agenda.
My opinions only but we all have a right to voice those don’t we?
Clinging to their bibles in one hand, clinging to their gun in the other.
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:34 am | Permalink
I offer the cons a chance to prove their good will.
Or at least fake it.
The poster “parkay” adds nothing here. He has never engaged in substantive discussion and his cut and paste stories seek only to inflame. I submit that he should be banned from this forum. Seconds
”
Sorry, as much as I agree with you about Parkay and his posts, he has every right to post whether or not you, or anybody else, deems them nothing substantiative, and inflammatory. YOu know, the whole first amendment thing.
On the other hand, I have been told to go kill myself by a poster that continues to post, I have seen posters post such “hate speech” as “every time a conservative dies, a gay angel gets his wings” and on and on. I could add posts by posts sides ad infinitum that go to personal animosity and hate.
Again, first amendement rules. So, go ahead and post your hatred of others, and allow others the same. Otherwise I suggest cleaning up your own house before burning down the house of others.
I think Anti is going to need a good lawyer.
Rhetoric such as that “parkay” and “HLP bring here brought about the murder of an innocent man. Maybe it is really time to start setting limits on free speech for those who can not be responsible with it.
A woman’s right to choose is established LAW. By continuing to ignore and even openly defy that reality, those who do so demonstrate that they are determined not to be responsible members of society.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:27 am | Permalink
I think Anti is going to need a good lawyer.
=====================================
Why is that?
“On the other hand, I have been told to go kill myself by a poster that continues to post”
Gee, wasnt that donn dublin’s whine, er, I mean line?
Hmmmmm……
Interesting how nics have changed.
I think spoofers have been mentioned as being of special interest in this investigation.
You dont think roeder was posting here under his own name, now do ya?
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:28 am | Permalink
Rhetoric such as that “parkay” and “HLP bring here brought about the murder of an innocent man. Maybe it is really time to start setting limits on free speech for those who can not be responsible with it.
===================
Kommie
Maybe it is really time to start setting limits on free speech for those who can not be responsible with it.
======================================
The Left’s real goal is shutting down any opposing views. Pi$$ on the Constitution, right?
Rhetoric such as that “parkay” and “HLP bring here brought about the murder of an innocent man.
__________________________________
Pretty serious charge, BlueJay.
Do you have an example of my ‘rhetoric’? Or are you merely spitting in the wind?
Parkay must be in self imposed exile, or at least cast back to the dark recesses of sybils consciousness.
Heckler
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:50 am | Permalink
“most Bush Haters aren’t going to go out and kill Bush figuratively, but in your hearts….”
____________________
Near as I can tell, nobody gunned Bush down in his church.
See, that’s one of the major differences between Cons and Progressives; Libs aren’t near as likely to gun somebody down who disagrees with them. That seems to be mostly a Con trait.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:27 am | Permalink
I think Anti is going to need a good lawyer.
——————-
xmas turkey
Full as…
I think spoofers have been mentioned as being of special interest in this investigation.
===========================================
Drama Queen, I don’t think the Law is going to waste its time scrolling through the WEBlog.
Heheheh. Anti thinks they have to “scroll” through here?
heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.
kfg,
Indeed. We’re now in legally actionable territory.
Boxlock20,
Over a year ago, I observed that soon after joining the WeBlog conversation, you very quickly became unable to control the tone and substance of your postings. At that time, I suggested that you should think seriously about whether posting here was a healthy or safe activity for you. I would ask you to revisit my suggestion, which I am again offering in a spirit of concern and out of a desire to be helpful.
Weblog would be a good starting place, being located in Tiller’s home town, it is quite conceivable that he posted here.
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:31 am | Permalink
The Left’s real goal is shutting down any opposing views. Pi$$ on the Constitution, right?
___________________________
It was YOUR precious W Bush that said the Constitution was just a “gd” piece of paper.
It was YOUR precious W Bush that said the Constitution was just a “gd” piece of paper.
=========================================
W Bush, precious to me?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
CF2K
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:34 am | Permalink
kfg,
Indeed. We’re now in legally actionable territory.
========================
roflmao!
The Muppet poster joins the conspiracy crew!
See, that’s one of the major differences between Cons and Progressives; Libs aren’t near as likely to gun somebody down who disagrees with them. That seems to be mostly a Con trait.- XXX
============================================
You are right.
LIBs are more likely to use bombs and arson as their tools.
I imagine all they need is a few key words, like Tiller, abortion, murderer. Quite a few postings would pop up.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:30 am | Permalink
“On the other hand, I have been told to go kill myself by a poster that continues to post”
Gee, wasnt that donn dublin’s whine, er, I mean line?
Hmmmmm……
Interesting how nics have changed.
I think spoofers have been mentioned as being of special interest in this investigation.”
GO ahead and investigate KFG. GO ahead and do a bone dig. You can find it out real quickly if yo uare really interested. I have always posted here under the nic Littlejohn, whith exception of a short time that I posted as the “blogger previouslyknownas littlejohn”. i have made no bones about posting under the same identifiable nic. SO, go ahead and do a bone dig, or quit making useless speculation.
Heard on the news Schoeder thought that the govt. could track people’s activities by 5 dollar bills in their billfold. He sounds like a real con nut.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:37 am | Permalink
See, that’s one of the major differences between Cons and Progressives; Libs aren’t near as likely to gun somebody down who disagrees with them. That seems to be mostly a Con trait.- XXX
============================================
You are right.
LIBs are more likely to use bombs and arson as their tools.
——————————
Don’t forget cannibalism (Dahmer) and dressing up as a clown (Gacy)
It only took liberal bloggers four hours to find roeders’ posts on Operation Rescue’s website. It took less than fifteen minutes for his past criminal record and association with militant christian militias to pop up on google. It’s not that difficult.
Imagine what the FBI can do….
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:28 am | Permalink
Rhetoric such as that “parkay” and “HLP bring here brought about the murder of an innocent man. Maybe it is really time to start setting limits on free speech for those who can not be responsible with it.
________________________
WHEN HE11 FREEZES OVER.
Free speech for thee and not for me.
It figures.
Way too much talk about banning posters from those who have no room to talk.
XXX
It went right over your head.
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:28 am | Permalink
Rhetoric such as that “parkay” and “HLP bring here brought about the murder of an innocent man. Maybe it is really time to start setting limits on free speech for those who can not be responsible with it.
________________________
WHEN HE11 FREEZES OVER.
Free speech for thee and not for me.
It figures.
Way too much talk about banning posters from those who have no room to talk.
KGF you are entitled to your own opinion as are Boxlock and Anti. You came onto the thread yesterday with your own agenda. ‘Look at me I am a victim too’. That was uncalled for. Send Daniel back.
Nothing was said to you that could be construed as a thread from what I read. Lame attempt by you to try to show it as anything else.
—————
Writer what you are saying has merit but is in effect not entirely factual. Late term abortions have been shown to be just as or more harmful to the mother as a live birth would be. That argument was disproven when senate hearings were heard on the partial birth debate. That is why a majority of dems and repubs voted to no longer allow this procedure.
Such a complicated issue. Feelings play a much bigger role than medical evidence. This is an argument for the ages but today it is about a senseless murder and the family of the man he murdered.
“Over a year ago, I observed that soon after joining the WeBlog conversation, you very quickly became unable to control the tone and substance of your postings.”—CF2K
Ah….wrong. I post pretty much exactly as I choose, and you ‘dear friend’, if that’s what you claim to be, ie giving advice for my benefit, would just like me to go away as I do you.
Look in your own eye there CF2K, don’t worry about me.
If I am misreading you then thanks and sorry, but I don’t believe you for a second based on your own out of control and derogatory past posts.
1. The Antis love to use the term “killing babies.”
There’s one big problem with that. The law of the land does not recognize a clump of cells without a brain as a “baby.”
Feel free to change the law . . . if you can, CONs.
2. Also, before the 1930’s, abortions were routinely performed by physicians with no interference by laws at all. What laws there were, were widely unenforced. It was only during the religious pietistic movement of the 30’s that abortion became really outlawed.
Despite the harsher laws, wealthy and middle-class women had no serious problem getting abortions if they really wanted one. The year before Roe v Wade made abortion safe and legal, estimates range up to about 3/4 million illegal abortions were performed.
Roe v Wade really affected only poorer women who don’t have a regular ob-gyn that they can trust.
3. Because of the anti-sex crusaders, comprehensive sex ed is not in every school and effective birth control methods are not as available as they should be. That’s why we have the sky-high rates of unwanted pregnancies and STD’s compared to other industrialized countries.
Fortunately, the Obama presidency has already started to reverse many of the IdiotPresident’s policy in that regard.
Come you Religious Nut-Jobs, throughout the land
And don’t criticize what you can’t understand
Your old road is rapidly aging
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand
For the Times, They ARE A Changin’
“AmWay, Calling Dr. Tiller a “murderer’ is the very kind of thing that leads to these assassinations. The word murder has a meaning in law.”
BS. Those who support Pro Life, from the Pope down consider abortion murder. The person who performs the abortion is by default a murderer as is the mother allowing the procedure. They are not all going to be murderers. (BTW, I am not advocating the PROLIFE position. I haven’t been to a church in over 30 years.)
But you missed the point to my post.
The state justifies murdering unborn humans.
Humans murder other humans which is not state justified.
States justify murder those convicted of the crime.
The law, legal, lawfully murder, kill, it’s all semantics. In some countries you can be lawfully murdered for criticism of Mohammad, Islam, sex with the wrong person. In others it’s the death penalty for the crimes of adultery, blasphemy, apostasy and homosexuality. And the WHO can perform legal killing is not limited to “the state”. The offended party can do you in!
Mankind at it’s finest.
1. The Antis love to use the term “killing babies.”
There’s one big problem with that. The law of the land does not recognize a clump of cells without a brain as a “baby.”
Feel free to change the law . . . if you can, CONs.
2. Also, before the 1930’s, abortions were routinely performed by physicians with no interference by laws at all. What laws there were, were widely unenforced. It was only during the religious pietistic movement of the 30’s that abortion became really outlawed.
Despite the harsher laws, wealthy and middle-class women had no serious problem getting abortions if they really wanted one. The year before Roe v Wade made abortion safe and legal, estimates range up to about 3/4 million illegal abortions were performed.
Roe v Wade really affected only poorer women who don’t have a regular ob-gyn that they can trust.
3. Because of the anti-sex crusaders, comprehensive sex ed is not in every school and effective birth control methods are not as available as they should be. That’s why we have the sky-high rates of unwanted pregnancies and STD’s compared to other industrialized countries.
Fortunately, the Obama presidency has already started to reverse many of the IdiotPresident’s policy in that regard.
Come you Religious Nut-Jobs, throughout the land
And don’t criticize what you can’t understand
Your old road is rapidly aging
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand
For the Times, They ARE A Changin’
It is what it is. The CHRISTIAN JIHAD. This is not an isolated incident, it is a pattern. I feel the same way about Christian’s that some people feel about Muslim’s, in that they are terrorists waiting to happen. Let me guess, Christianity preaches peace? So does Islam. Phelps does what he does because he feels the bible tells him to. It’s all the same. Christian Jihad, baby. Don’t stop until everyone is killed.
Did anyone else detect the weblog slow response time? The simulation has changed. I detect a change in the program. Posting twice and even more.
Déjà vu.
Hmmm . . .
Apparently the Bill “Loofah” O’Reilly used to inveigh against Tiller quite often on his show, calling him “Tiller the Baby Killer.”
I wonder what he’s going to do to fill time now that one of his avid listeners shot Tiller to death.
He’ll have to come up with a new schtik.
FROM BRAD BLOG
Fox ‘News’ host had long charged KS physician with ‘operating a death mill’, ‘executing babies’, carrying out ’slaughter’…
. . .
Tiller was better known to Fox “News” viewers as “Tiller the Baby Killer”, as he’s long been described by Bill O’Reilly who has spent years targeting Tiller on the most-watched show in cable news. O’Reilly has long demonized him with allegations of performing illegal late-term abortions, characterized as murder by O’Reilly and his guests.
In March of this year, after Tiller had been acquitted of charges alleging that he’d performed late-term abortions in violation of Kansas state law, O’Reilly continued his series of programs focusing on the Kansas physician, charging him with “operating a death mill”, and alleging that he was “executing babies”.
O’Reilly had previously been highly critical of the state’s Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, charging, during his Talking Points commentary in 2007, that she was “allowing to continue the slaughter.”
Of course, it’s no more O’Reilly’s fault when a lunatic takes action to murder someone the Fox host has targeted for years on his popular television show, than it was when another lunatic gunned down church-goers in Tennessee last year claiming in his pre-murder “manifesto” that it was “a symbolic killing”, and that he had “wanted to kill…every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg’s book.” Goldberg is a regular featured guest on O’Reilly’s show, and the author of 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America (And Al Franken is #37)…
Rush will probably take the assasins side and start a fund for his defense.
No doubt it will emerge that this guy was a “lone nut,” but Dr. Tiller was the fifth casualty of such “lone nuts.” The nonstop harassment and threats toward persons engaged in perfect legal activities have consequences. The fact is that we have homegrown terrorist organizations that encourage such actions.
The Supreme Court’s Brandenburg v. Ohio decision limits criminal culpability to speech directed towards or inciting “imminent lawless action,” but civil liability (monetary damages) are another matter entirely. And, yes, the associations of these vermin should be investigated under the RICO statutes.
Some have compared repeatedly calling Tiller a murderer to the allegations of murder associated with the previous occupants of the White House, but there are some obvious differences.
Just as we don’t call soldiers who kill during a battle murderers, or police who kill in defense of life and limb murderers, or–for that matter–presidents who legally declare war murderers, we don’t call doctors who perform perfectly legal medical services murderers. Murder can and does, in fact, take place in wartime though–it’s considered a war crime, in violation of US law and the Geneva conventions. A clear and convincing case can be made that George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney are murderers, not because they killed the wrong people, but because they killed in violation of accepted standards of US and international law.
Granted, as Sting once noted, “murder is the sport of the elected,” but these people work for us , and the people they killed were living, breathing human beings. There is no scientific or moral ambiguity on this point.
Would I want anything untoward to happen to them? No, in fact, HELL NO. Vigilante “justice” is not justice at all, and it would make them martyrs for the Right.
Those who insisted on legal harassment of George Tiller were at least playing by the rules. But to call this shocking act taking out a “murderer,” is not only slanderous of a murdered man, it suggests a chilling (albeit unsurprising, from such folks) disregard for the rule of law.
And George Tiller was not any sort of authority or public figure. He was simply doing his job. To draw the analogy full circle, it would be like some nut offing the CEO of a defense contractor or, hell, even the machinists working on the floor. This man had to wear a bullet-proof vest every day, because of, not a handful of nuts, but a dangerous organized fringe.
Yesterday, Randall Terry declared that he was more concerned about how Obama might use this tragedy (to do what? make abortion more legal?), than the cold-blooded murder of a man. Anyone who read that statement should have found it chilling.
Civic activism against the practice of abortion is one thing. But with it comes the obligation to recognition that the practice is perfectly legal, and a majority of your fellow Americans currently agree that it should be.
Capn says: “There’s one big problem with that. The law of the land does not recognize a clump of cells without a brain as a “baby.”
—————-
Wrong Capn. Have you heard of Alexa’s Law. This gives human status to that ‘clump of cells’ and is why the pro aborts fought it so loudly. Many murderers have been charged with two murders when the fetus of the person they killed was viable.
Years ago slavery was the law of the land. If people had set back and said ‘well it’s the law’ cant change that. Where would we be today.
Laws are changed frequently as reasons for their change are made known. The ban against partial birth abortion was one of those.
So don’t use that tired old argument.
dfybaby21 just said that “I feel the same way about Christian’s that some people feel about Muslim’s, in that they are terrorists waiting to happen.” You say you are a Christian. Is this true about you. When you fling out those giant umbrellas remember it might come down on your own head.
All all…get this!
“This was the threat from bigotbawks that has been forwarded to law enforcement, not to mention the WE blog administrators.”—the chicken farmer
That woman, or whatever it is, is certifiably crazy, totally deranged.
Sense when is it a “threat” to anybody to quote Jesus own words?
“Live by the sword, die by the sword”, “is a metaphorical expression meaning that living one’s life in a certain way will, in the end, affect one’s destiny. The proverb comes from the Book of Matthew, verse 26:52″
How is it a threat to examine that statement of Jesus with the circumstances of Tiller’s death.
To quote a biblical verse and recommend someone, in fact all of us, think about Jesus words is a personal threat, oh come on, ridiculous. Only in the mind of a deviant psycho I guess, and one that wants nothing to do with the Bible either.
I hope kfg did turn that in to somebody….to show how ignorant the degree of egomania she exhibits.
I’ve never once threatened anyone on this blog, been derogatory…sure, as have they but never threatening. Now then, I would say what she claims to be doing is just that though.
“BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:34 am | Permalink
The poster “parkay” adds nothing here. He has never engaged in substantive discussion and his cut and paste stories seek only to inflame. I submit that he should be banned from this forum.”
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam in the past. About a year ago it filled the blog pages over and over again and always by the same participants.
IMHO, I haven’t seen any real nasty posts and it seems to me we have been disagreeing as usual, and agreeing to disagree without the fanfare and pages and pages and pages of WHO SHOT JR crud.
Why are we back on this topic? And Bluejay, no offense, but I’m sure some would say your above statement is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.
I should clarify: The WHO SHOT JR comment was meant in lines with an old TV show called Dallas. In a closing episode fans, movie stars, and magazines spent the summer months discussing who shot JR Ewing……
ad nauseam
I understood what you meant but on this forum today it is good that your clarified that or our own Jr would have been calling 911.
After reading about Dr. Tiller’s assassination, I have become even more sure that religious zealotry is a form of mental illness. Whether it is Christian, Islamic, Hindu, or any other belief in invisible beings.
Sad OKobserver. I was thinking the same thing.
nwjhawk, dfybaby21
=================
I think a few of the LIBs have been banned, they are coming back as new nics…
Heh heh.
“I have become even more sure that religious zealotry is a form of mental illness”
Why stop there? Nations who declare they are “peace loving” often times have created the most death and destruction on earth. Iran threatens to destroy Israel off the face of the earth. North Korea is testing missles and nuclear bombs which only have one purpose. Wasn’t it Reagan who sent the air force to blow up Kadafi in Libya? Blew up his adopted children instead. Hitler legally gassed jews. The US knowingly dropped the ABomb on woman and children in Japan as they were walking to schools. All justified homicide (but justifiably homicidal).
War is legalized murder.
It’s not just: Do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end.
Just another day spent by the left using this tragedy to further their own political hatred and intolerance of those they disagree with.
Yep, business as usual.
WICHITA – District Attorney Nola Foulston said today that the case against the man in custody for the fatal shooting of abortion doctor George Tiller will be a state case, not a federal case.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
WICHITA – District Attorney Nola Foulston said today that the case against the man in custody for the fatal shooting of abortion doctor George Tiller will be a state case, not a federal case.
=====================
Woot!
I win my bet with lindainks. :D
bawksalot whines…
“I’ve never once threatened anyone on this blog, been derogatory…sure, as have they but never threatening. Now then, I would say what she claims to be doing is just that though.”
Hmmm…wasn’t there a teacher that bawks repeatedly threatened (until the cowardly chickenman was called on it by the teacher…bawks NEVER showed up at the school board meeting OR Bluejay’s meeting for that matter)…
squawkbawks…you have been served!
Let’s be honest here – this assassination served two purposes for the RR and the Republican (anti-choice) Party: It served to silence a major proponent of women’s rights (Dr. Tiller) and served to intimidate other choice providers.
This assassination was no accident – it is a product of the RR rhetoric for the last 15 years. You know that is true. The thinly veiled agenda of the anti-choice, anti-women, anti-sex party has come to fruition.
It is what the right wanted – they got their wish.
Deal with it – you asked for it – you got it – wallow in your sins.
It is what the right wanted
============================
Bull Schitt.
#
WSClark
Posted June 1, 2009 at 1:16 pm | Permalink
Let’s be honest here – this assassination served two purposes for the RR and the Republican (anti-choice) Party: It served to silence a major proponent of women’s rights (Dr. Tiller) and served to intimidate other choice providers.
This assassination was no accident – it is a product of the RR rhetoric for the last 15 years. You know that is true. The thinly veiled agenda of the anti-choice, anti-women, anti-sex party has come to fruition.
It is what the right wanted – they got their wish.
Deal with it – you asked for it – you got it – wallow in your sins.
======================
Bull Carp…
The extremist group that Roeder belong to (Freeman) said that he was extreme about abortion even back in the 1990s, constantly talking about it.
Extremists like Roeder are just nut jobs that no one likes to associate with or share a warped ideology with.
Making blanket statements of blame like you did Clark, is equivalent of saying that Oswald was a leftist and a commie. So all people on the left can be blamed for the assassination of JFK.
WS Clark,
Wow. You didn’t even last a day. Yesterday you were calling for us to stop being so divisive and to be civil.
Today you are spouting off the same rhetoric about blaming the “RR” and that:
“It is what the right wanted – they got their wish.”
Really? Who on the right wanted this, except for an EXTREME minority?
“Deal with it – you asked for it – you got it – wallow in your sins.”
Who are you talking to here?
So much for your empty words yesterday.
“For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.”
XXX
Posted June 1, 2009 at 1:28 pm | Permalink
“For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.”
=======================================
WTF? Now you’re giving archers a bad name.
I AM OUTRAGED!!!
I will be contacting the Editors about this!!!
“Bull Schitt.”
“Bull Carp…”
Nonsense – the anti-choice crowd is PLEASED that a blow has been struck against the pro-choice people.
“Wow. You didn’t even last a day.”
Did I call anyone a HYPOCRITE or a NITWIT or DUH LIBS or a MORON or an IDIOT or suggest a connection between Tiller and the NAZIS?
Did I call anyone a name?
Let me check my post………………….. Nope.
You lose.
I think Clarks RR designation for everything wrong in the world is bait. He knows better.
For instance, the anti-abortion folks ain’t just RR:
Surprise, Mom: I’m Against Abortion
By ELIZABETH HAYT
Published: Sunday, March 30, 2003
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LinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalinkFOR her high school class in persuasive speech, Afton Dahl, 16, chose to present an argument that abortion should be illegal. She graphically described the details of various abortion techniques, including facts about fetal heart development.
”The baby’s heartbeat starts at around 12 to 18 days, so it’s murder to kill someone with a heartbeat,” Miss Dahl said recently, recalling the argument she used in class in January. ”I don’t believe in abortion under any circumstances, including rape. I think it would be better to overturn Roe v. Wade.”
This contrast between mother and teenage daughter illustrates a trend noted in polls: that teenagers and college-age Americans are more conservative about abortion rights than their counterparts of a generation ago. Many people who are old enough to have teenage children and who equate youth with liberal opinions on topics like gay rights have been surprised at this discovery. Miss Dahl was one of numerous students in her class who chose to make speeches about abortion, and most took the anti-abortion side. ”I was shocked that there were that many students who felt strong enough and confident enough to speak about being pro-life,” said Nina Verin, a parent of another student in the class (whose oral argument was about war in Iraq). ”The people I associate with in town are pro-choice, so I’m troubled — where do these kids come from?”
A study of American college freshmen shows that support for abortion rights has been dropping since the early 1990’s: 54 percent of 282,549 students polled at 437 schools last fall by the University of California at Los Angeles agreed that abortion should be legal. The figure was down from 67 percent a decade earlier. A New York Times/CBS News poll in January found that among people 18 to 29, the share who agree that abortion should be generally available to those who want it was 39 percent, down from 48 percent in 1993.
”Abortion isn’t a rights issue — it’s become for increasing numbers of young people a moral, ethical issue,” said Henry Brady, a professor of political science and public policy at the University of California at Berkeley who has taken surveys in this area.
(NY Times)
May 15th, 2009
Most Americans (51%) call themselves “pro-life” rather than “pro-choice” for the first time in the 15 years that Gallup has polled the question..
I’m reminded of the argument libs use to say in the future America will be for Gay Marriage – because young people tend to believe it and old RR folks will die.
WSClark
Posted June 1, 2009 at 1:35 pm | Permalink
“Bull Schitt.”
“Bull Carp…”
Nonsense – the choice crowd are saddened that a blow has been struck against the pro-death people.
————————————
There, I fixed it for you.
WS Clark,
You just said the “right” wanted this.
Simply because you didn’t call us a name doesn’t make your comments which cast a net on an entire group of people any more civil or less divisive.
“the anti-choice crowd is PLEASED that a blow has been struck against the pro-choice people.”
And most people with common sense know that just the opposite is true. Everytime some nutcase goes on a rampage it does more damage to the PROLIFE movement than repair.
Pssst Nathan! Be careful at any public gyms you might happen to frequent. Monkeyhawk has confessed to spending twenty minutes watching a male Marine get dressed in the dressing room. He said he had to take two showers to cool off. If I’m lying I’m dying. I have the links.
WS Clark,
Watch, I am not going to call you a name….
The liberals are happy that Dr Tiller is dead. This is exactly what they wanted! Now they can use him death as a political beating stick against those they disagree with and continue to rejoice at his death as it gives them ammo to further their own politcal cause.
“Nonsense – the choice crowd are saddened that a blow has been struck against the pro-death people.”
Hmmmmmmmm…….. Price tries to take me to task for my comments, yet Reggie refers to pro-choice people as “pro-death.”
Nice try.
But at least you acknowledge that a blow has been struck against choice.
And that is what Roeder and the RR wanted.
They got it.
You should be so proud.
“The liberals are happy that Dr Tiller is dead.”
That’s a lie and what is worse – you know it.
Now, who is being divisive?
WS Clark,
You call us the “anti-choice crowd” while complaining about our calling you the “pro-death” crowd?
Pot meet kettle.
WSClark
Posted June 1, 2009 at 1:42 pm | Permalink
“Nonsense – the choice crowd are saddened that a blow has been struck against the pro-death people.”
Hmmmmmmmm…….. Price tries to take me to task for my comments, yet Reggie refers to pro-choice people as “pro-death.”
——————-
That’s because getting an abortion is not an either/or proposition. The human inside the woman dies.
Therefore, those for these procedure are pro-death.
I don’t think it is a blow to the Pro-Choice folks, the clinic will remain open.
The killing achieved nothing but the destruction of 2 people and their families.
“You call us the “anti-choice crowd” while complaining about our calling you the “pro-death” crowd?”
“Therefore, those for these procedure are pro-death.”
Choice – are you familiar with the term?
It means that a woman can have a CHOICE – she can decide.
If you wish to deny a CHOICE, you are anti-choice. Rape, incest, the health of a woman – those are reasons a woman makes a choice to have an abortion – it’s not that she is PRO-DEATH.
As I said, it is my opinion that the RR is pleased that a blow has been struck against CHOICE.
WS Clark,
Death? Are you familiar with the term?
It means that a woman is causing the death of the uborn child.
If you wish to support a woman causing that death, you are Pro-Death. It is not that you are Pro-choice.
As I said, it is my opinion that the Lbierals are pleased that Dr Tiller was killed as it has brought them a martyr to rally their cause around and to beat those they disagree with over the head with.
“the clinic will remain open”
I heard it will close for one week for mourning.
Then,
“A Nebraska abortion provider is on his way to Wichita to help at Dr. Tiller’s clinic.
According to two Nebraska news agencies, Dr. Leroy Carhart will temporarily help run the clinic. Carhart is the head of the Abortion and Contraception Clinic of Nebraska, which operates out of an Omaha suburb. He describes himself as a close friend of Tiller’s.”
“Death? Are you familiar with the term?”
Yeah.
What CHOICE would you give a woman, Price, if she had been raped, a victim of incest or the pregnancy threatened her health, physically, emotionally or financially?
And CHOICE means simply that – carry the child to term, adoption, keeping the child or terminating the pregnancy.
Pro-CHOICE, not pro-DEATH.
I wanted to post on this topic yesterday, but due to the time change the open thread had already disintegrated to a cesspool, and so I held off.
It was no surprise to me, that on this blog it was a few on the left side that was the most hateful. Using this as a reason why religion should be treated as a mental illness? Placing all pro-lifers and all Christians (did we forget Tiller was at church when he was murdered?) into the same box as this nutjob? Sick, seriously.
And I reacted to the pro-life’s professing this incident as a “tragedy” the same way I would if W. was assasinated and I was reading the same crocodile tear bull on DailyKos…”Yeah right”. You can’t spend a decade saying someone is a gleeful murderer innocent sweet healthy viable babies, a proponent of child rape, a figure worse than Hitler, and more without reaping the consequences. It was this hateful, vile rhetoric that caused this murder. And those who would normally bleat on and on about “Tiller the Killer” are not shedding any tears…of course this is what they wanted. Just not in a way that would cast their movement in an unfavorable light.
Most of all, this incident has made me aware of the hopelessness of finding a common ground, or at least a civil discourse, on this issue. I know that such discussion is POSSIBLE. My husband and I are on different sides of the abortion legality debate. But we don’t resort to calling each other babykillers and forced-birthers, because while such terms sound shocking and effective, they don’t accomplish anything. Except to make people more worked up about an already hot issue. Yes, real discussion about abortion is possible, but a snowball in hell. Just look at yesterday’s open thread.
Now, it will be interesting to sit back and watch the consequences of yesterday. I suspect the pro-life cause has been badly bruised by Tiller’s murder.
WS Clark,
Or, how about lets be, you know, civil?
The “Pro-Life” crowd calls themselves Pro-Life.
The “Pro-Choice” crowd calls themselves Pro-choice.
Both sides “choose” to call each other Pro-Death or Anti-Choice as to basically call each other names.
So, how about that civility you called for yesterday?
How about being reasonable?
You call us Pro-Life. I will call you Pro-Choice.
Actually, in nearly every debate on the subject I have always used the term Pro-Choice except for when trying to make a point to someone like you about your calling us Anti-Choice.
“It means that a woman is causing the death of the uborn child.” [ nathan ]
This is a most confused statement from one of the Blog’s most confused posters…
Let’s see, Nathan, humans breathe air… we drown in water… We cant live without AIR to breathe…
You honestly call this an UNBORN child… How can something UNBORN, and that doesnt meet one of the most basic requirements of being HUMAN… be killed?? It isnt a HUMAN YET… Can it be any clearer than that???
And then YOU very ignorantly, and arrogantly claim that Liberals are happy Dr. Tiller is dead??? How duplicitious can you get Jarhead???
You are terribly GOONY Nathan… You really need to go see your local marine shrink and talk this out…. Nobody on this Blog is capable of handling your personality disorder…
Ohne sick twisted freak you are, Marine… I can only hope there arent MORE of your kind wearing that classy uniform….
“As I said, it is my opinion that the Lbierals are pleased that Dr Tiller was killed as it has brought them a martyr to rally their cause around and to beat those they disagree with over the head with.”
Tiller provided a legal service and now that service is not available. Women will suffer because of this. The pro-choice movement cares about women, and so no, this is not pleasing news. It is a strike against abortion rights. It is a tragedy. And I’m not using that word with a wink,wink attached to it.
Attack on military recruiting station in Arkansas. 1 dead 1 wounded.
Would it be premature to label this an act of domestic terrorism?
Would it be premature to label it an act of anti war leftists?
Sorry to have to agree with you Nathan. The left has picked up this club and ran with it. They were estatic yesterday. Even brought KFG out of her hole so she could tell us she is a victim too.
Sad that the death of this man has been tarnished with the left like WS calling out taunts to those who might dare to disagree with him.
No comment on the fact that the youth of our nation are better educated about what a baby is and when it becomes a baby. This change hasn’t been legislated it will be because the barbaric nature of the torture a baby endures before being expelled is becoming known to more people.
I’m with you. His words are worthless. Didn’t last 24 hours.
The Repressive Right thinks they won this one big time.
Tiller’s Clinic will close — what is the alternative? — and there will only be two providers of late-term abortions in the US left.
The rest have all been intimidated or killed off.
But the up-side is no more Summers of Mercy in Wichita. What the hard-core right doesn’t seem to get is that it has killed off one of its main sources of strength, rallying to stop Tiller The Killer’s Nazi Death Camp.
The Catholics and the Fundies will now realize that they have nothing left in common. There is no more “enemy” of all that is good and innocent left in Wichita to be purged.
Redemptive violence has won the day once again.
Enjoy, CONs . . .
“Nathaniel” –
Are you familiar with the term “birth?”
It’s when we start measuring the life of a person.
Y’know…
On drivers’ licenses, Social Security benefits, when you get the discount at the movies and Applebee’s.
Go out and pluck the blossoms off a tree, boy, and make yourself an apple pie. They’re simply “unborn” apples, right?
Crack an egg into a pan and eat some fried chicken, boy. Same thing, right?
You seem desperate to disassociate yourself from the terrorist murder yesterday of a post-born baby. But then, you’re in the business of killing post-born babies, aren’tcha?
You’ve bragged about it in this forum many times.
Even your beloved “father” couldn’t tell us where you were yesterday around 10 a.m. until you revealed you’d spent the last week training people to kill post-born babies.
Your high horse has turned out to be a miniature Shetland pony, boy.
You kill post-born babies for a living.
Especially if they shoot your dog.
Y’know: “Justified homicide.”
The Repressive Right thinks they won this one big time.
Tiller’s Clinic will close — what is the alternative? — and there will only be two providers of late-term abortions in the US left.
The rest have all been intimidated or killed off.
But the up-side is no more Summers of Mercy in Wichita. What the hard-core right doesn’t seem to get is that it has killed off one of its main sources of strength, rallying to stop Tiller The Killer’s Nazi Death Camp.
The Catholics and the Fundies will now realize that they have nothing left in common. There is no more “enemy” of all that is good and innocent left in Wichita to be purged.
Redemptive violence has won the day once again.
Enjoy, CONs . . .
“So, how about that civility you called for yesterday?”
Actually, Price, now that I think it through, I have absolutely no desire to discuss anything with you, and that having been said, I will no longer participate in ANY debate with you. Period.
And with that, life calls and I will be back later – but not to debate with Nathan Price.
See ya.
I’m certainly not interested in limiting free speech- without it, we wouldn’t know the fundie agenda- but I am in favor of making people responsible for knowingly inciting others to murder. And that is exactly what happened here. The fundies knew that if they demonized long enough, one of their fringe nuts would take it as permission to murder their demon for them. Of course they knew it and intended for it to happen, and had their crocodile tears and fine speeches on tap for the occasion, and must be held responsible right along with Roeder. The fact that he was offered spiritual coin for the job does not make this and the others like it anything less than murder for hire.
How many attacks on military recruiters have there been in the past seven years?
Don’t get much press do they.
Would it be going too far to paraphrase XXX and say -
” I think the man that shot up the recruiting station IS representative of the anti-war movement. Sure, most anti-war lefties aren’t going to go out and kill somebody figuratively, but in your hearts…”
hmm….kind of hatefull isnt it.
I’ve tried to moderate my opinions as to Christians.
That is now over. Though I do not wish to lump ALL Christians into the same group. But the “pro lifers”?
They murdered this man. They would murder me. They would murder my son. They would murder the whole world to enforce what is written in a 2000 year old book.
I’m supposed to be afraid of religious zealots on the other side of the world who maybe have a genuine beef with the US?
No. We have enough fanatically religious terrorists living among us. About a dozen of them post this blog.
As the sun rose on the last day of Dr. Tiller’s life, it shined on the marquee of Spirit One church which had another in a long series of hateful and incendiary rants against Dr. Tiller.
I wonder what they have posted now?
Hallelujah?
I call their activism complicit in Dr. Tiller’s death and I urge all to write to the IRS and demand that their tax exempt status be revoked.
“But the “pro lifers”?
They murdered this man. They would murder me. They would murder my son. They would murder the whole world to enforce what is written in a 2000 year old book.”
Lumping, again. I think this is a bit melodramatic. I can assure you that not all pro-lifers advocate murder to further their cause. Most want legislation passed to accomplish this. Which is fine I say, go argue your case, change hearts, get it passed. That’s the way our system works.
That is now over. Though I do not wish to lump ALL Christians into the same group. But the “pro lifers”?
They murdered this man. They would murder me. They would murder my son. They would murder the whole world to enforce what is written in a 2000 year old book.
==============================
I think you fell on your head.
Did the shooter of the recruiting station KILL anybody?
No?
Then please shut up.
Good afternoon, Capn.
Ready for another Japanese lesson? Have you figured out the difference between a suffix and a particle?
CapnAmerica
Posted June 1, 2009 at 3:05 pm | Permalink
Did the shooter of the recruiting station KILL anybody?
No?
Then please shut up.
==============================
DEVELOPING: An Army recruiter was shot and killed Monday at a recruiting center in Little Rock, Ark., and a second recruiter was wounded.
#
Heckler
Posted June 1, 2009 at 2:17 pm | Permalink
Attack on military recruiting station in Arkansas. 1 dead 1 wounded.
Would it be premature to label this an act of domestic terrorism?
Would it be premature to label it an act of anti war leftists?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Knock yourself out.
Jed pointed out an interesting idea yesterday–
What happens to Operation Rescue now.
Troy Newman moved his whole operation here to Wichita just to be closer to Tiller’s Clinic.
Now Tiller is dead. The twice weekly visits from an out-of-state MD are obviously not tenable in the long term, so essentially Troy’s Boys won.
But, wait a minute.
How’s OperationRamMyReligionDownYourThroat going to justify soliciting funds now that it “won”?
Tiller’s Death Camp is defunct. There’s nothing left that merits a million-dollar organization with dozens of staff to inveigh against.
Troy is going to have to go out and find a real job.
And that might be tough in this George Bush recession.
Operation Rescue? Rescue thyself.
I made a point not to lump all Christians in with the fundamentalists.
The same people who would compel a woman to carry a pregnancy are the folks who would say who can and cannot be married. And that would be just the beginning of where they would go if they ever got the traction. No, they are dangerous and they must be treated accordingly.
One man who accepts his small part in this tragedy:
“The same hate machine I was part of is still attacking all abortionists as “murderers.” And today once again the “pro-life” leaders are busy ducking their personal responsibility for people acting on their words. The people who stir up the fringe never take responsibility. But I’d like to say on this day after a man was murdered in cold blood for performing abortions that I — and the people I worked with in the religious right, the Republican Party, the pro-life movement and the Roman Catholic Church, all contributed to this killing by our foolish and incendiary words.
I am very sorry.”
Frank Schaeffer is a writer. He is author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back and also author of the forthcoming Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don’t Like Religion (Or Atheism)
George Tiller’s Wichita clinic will reopen after a week of mourning
http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/835055.html
Tara,
“I can assure you that not all pro-lifers advocate murder to further their cause. Most want legislation passed to accomplish this.”
You are way too young to remember all the deaths and injuries caused to women by their previous legislation, which is the exact same legislation they want now. Whether they frame it in those terms, that is what will happen again, and they know it. They don’t care!
One man is responsible for this murder, that is the guy that pulled the trigger.
Wow. Such irrational hate. I guess I would have expected it yesterday. You know the usual liberal knee jerk thing. But no, they keep it up, as if they really believe that because pro-lifers speak the truth about abortion, it is automatically hate speech or incendiary. We even have an un-American wacko who posts about limiting free speech for those who don’t agree with him regarding abortion.
I am disappointed that this happened for a number of reasons, but primarily because we were making progress. We truly are changing hearts and minds. Americans are now majority pro-life for the first time, and we were on our way to reducing the number of abortions. I agree with Tara who posts, “I suspect the pro-life cause has been badly bruised by Tiller’s murder”.
This is a setback in the P.R. Dept for the pro-life movement, and despite how the maddeningly dishonest left tries to portray it, there is no way that 99.99999% of pro-lifers wanted this to happen.
outlander asked me if someone shot Bush after I called him “WorstPresidentEver” and a war criminal . . . would that make me a contributor for Bush’s assassination?
No.
1. Because in condemning the illegal violence that Bush has perpetrated, I implicitly condemn ANY violence to be shown in return.
2. Because in condemning the illegal violence of Bush, I offer clear and legal alternatives to more illegal violence, such as investigations and impeachment and trials.
Pastor Holick of the despicably crude Spirit One, Inc.
“Ok, now that we Christians have slobbered all over ourselves “unequivocally, categorically, and expressly” condemning this act of murder, (as we should), but should hardly stop there), may we move on (as we will never, no matter how hard we try, win the opinions of the men of the world.)”
(I am not even sure what this parenthesized series of sentence fragments is supposed to mean… other than saying that now they had cried their phony tears for the press, they must get back to business of making money and shouting at women and inflaming the weak-minded.)
Ohmygosh, this just happened.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104788001
Army Recruiter Killed In Attack On Arkansas Office
by The Associated Press
NPR.org, June 1, 2009 · A new soldier helping to attract others to the military was shot and killed outside an Army recruiting office Monday in Little Rock, Ark., and a second soldier was wounded, and a suspect was arrested, police said.
A man inside a black vehicle pulled up outside the Army-Navy recruiting office in west Little Rock and opened fire about 10:30 a.m., said police Lt. Terry Hastings.
*******
Anyone who has followed my posts or any other Liberal on this WEBlog knows that our primary opposition to the unnecessary, illegal, and immoral war in Iraq was to protect the American fighting service man or woman who is heroically willing to sacrifice their lives for their country.
Anyone who has followed my posts or any other Liberal on this WEBlog knows that our primary opposition to the unnecessary, illegal, and immoral war in Iraq was to protect the American fighting service man or woman who is heroically willing to sacrifice their lives for their country.
========================================
The why do you LIBs crap on the Marines and other service members on this Blog for no other reason other than they have served?
The why do you LIBs = Then why do you LIBs
“teenagers and college-age Americans are more conservative about abortion rights than their counterparts of a generation ago.”
People tend to take freedoms they have never fought for for granted.
People tend to take freedoms they have never fought for for granted.
============================
True, But coming from you I must laugh!
Wahine_Tara
Posted June 1, 2009 at 2:10 pm | Permalink
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thank you for making the most rational, balanced, and thoughtful post I’ve seen made around here in quite some time.
However, I find it hard to believe that you actually expected to find rational discourse in yesterday’s open thread. Rational discourse around here is rare enough but to find it yesterday, would be just about an impossibility.
I dislike how every single issue is broken down into ‘left’ and ‘right’ factions. Abortion is one of those issues where one can actually find a fair bit of ideological crossover.
Yesterday morning we all heard the news that Dr. Tiller had been shot. For most of us this came as no big surprise, but was still shocking to hear that it had actually/finally happened. Those on the pro-choice side were justifiably angry and reacted in an emotional manner. Blanket accusations were made that most, after a sufficient passage of time and reflection, will probably look back on with a certain amount of regret.
Those on the pro-life side also reacted in an emotional manner by getting extremely defensive and making blanket counter-accusations. Again, I suspect that many would make different posts or simply choose not to respond at all if they had it all to do over again.
Hopefully, as emotions simmer down, things will return to ‘normal’ around here. (as messed up as that is, sometimes.)
“Sad that the death of this man has been tarnished with the left like WS calling out taunts to those who might dare to disagree with him.”
What taunts, Okie………………. list them.
The why do you LIBs crap on the Marines and other service members on this Blog for no other reason other than they have served?
*****
Uh, because we DON’T?
I have criticized Regular for living off gov’t welfare while denying others with the same needs the same coverage.
But that has nothing to do with attacking his service, which I have never done.
Uh, because we DON’T?
=============================
Monkeyhawk referred to the Marines as a ‘Cult’.
That is one example.
Several LIBs have stated that our soldiers are just over there killing and raping civilians for fun.
Capn’A, I don’t recall any instance of you personally degrading our soldiers.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted June 1, 2009 at 3:18 pm | Permalink
outlander asked me if someone shot Bush after I called him “WorstPresidentEver” and a war criminal . . . would that make me a contributor for Bush’s assassination?
No.
1. Because in condemning the illegal violence that Bush has perpetrated, I implicitly condemn ANY violence to be shown in return.
2. Because in condemning the illegal violence of Bush, I offer clear and legal alternatives to more illegal violence, such as investigations and impeachment and trials.
—————
1. So, in condemning the violence that Dr. Tiller wrought on the unborn, pro-lifers implicitly condemn any violence in return. OK, I can live with that.
And…
2. Our alternatives included legislation limiting Dr. Tiller’s famous partial birth abortions.
Sorry Capn. You didn’t differentiate yourself. In fact, you defeated your own argument.
For those who just joined the telecast, yesterday, I had pointed out Capn’s hypocrisy in implicating those who spoke out against Tiller for his murder, while denying that Pro-lifers were doing no more than he did in blaming Bush for thousands of deaths in Iraq.
Now, I don’t think that anyone would have tried to blame Capn for his incendiary speech if some nut had assassinated Bush. Yet that is what he and the rest of the dishonest left tries to do here with the Tiller murder.
Now, I don’t think that anyone would have tried to blame Capn for his incendiary speech if some nut had assassinated Bush. Yet that is what he and the rest of the dishonest left tries to do here with the Tiller murder.
===========================
Exactly.
Thank you Dr. Tiller for your years of selfless and courageous service to women in need. You saved thousands of women’s lives. God Bless you and your family, my thoughts and prayers are with them now.
While the pro-choice community may be in shock right now the clinic will not close. There is a plan to continue vital services to women in need beginning next week. For those of you who are pro-choice, I suggest you put your time and money where it counts. Donate whatever/whenever you can to the cause. I knew Dr. Tiller both personally and professionally and he was a caring, decent man. I also know for a fact that if a woman appeared to be conflicted about her decision that he would not perform the procedure.
Maggot, I was there last night, wish I knew who you were so I could have met you. A couple of fellow bloggers were there as well, it was a wonderful turn out except we couldn’t hear the speakers (no mike) and of course the Phelps clan was there to spew hatred. Several of us who were clinic escorts from the Summer of Mercy days were there.
Rest in Peace Dr. Tiller.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 3:36 pm | Permalink
Several LIBs have stated that our soldiers are just over there killing and raping civilians for fun.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Name ‘em.
Yeah, okay.
I’m starting to think that maybe I was wrong about the whole “blame the movement” for Tiller’s death thing.
It certainly wasn’t in Operation Rescue’s best interest that Tiller was assassinated.
They have completely lost their raison d’etre. There is no reason for them to even exist in Kansas any more.
“So long,
It’s been good to know ya.
So long,
It’s been good to know ya . . . “
KFG,
P-Mom
C3PO
BlueJay
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
KFG,
P-Mom
C3PO
BlueJay
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-===-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=–=–=
Fine, so your issue is with those particular posters, not LIBs in general.
Name ‘em.
==================
KFG
P-Mom
C3PO
BlueJay
Regular, Nathan, Hank, and XXX probably could add to the list.
Fine, so your issue is with those particular posters, not LIBs in general.
===================================
I think you got the point, Capn’A didn’t.
With all due respect, WichiWoman . . . Can the clinic really keep going long-term after this?
“But no, they keep it up, as if they really believe that because pro-lifers speak the truth about abortion, it is automatically hate speech or incendiary.”
There’s a difference between speaking the truth as you see it about abortion, and incendiary rhetoric. Example: “Life begins at conception, and stopping a beating heart with abortion is no different than killing a newly born child: that’s why we need laws passed to ban abortion”.
There’s nothing incendiary about that, and I believe that I have sincerely represented the pro-lifer’s viewpoint with that statement.
No mention of child rapists, Nazis, death mills or torture are necessary for honest discourse.
I believe that inflammatory rhetoric drives polarity, and is responsible in part for Tiller’s murder. That’s why it’s used, it gets people fired up. In this case, it drove someone too far.
“Anti-abortion activist Randall Terry says his movement should not tone down its rhetoric despite the killing of abortion doctor George Tiller.
Terry says Tiller’s murder by a gunman during church services on
Sunday poses a problem for abortion opponents who might feel
pressure not to use highly charged language and tactics.
He says the gunman was wrong to kill Tiller, but that abortion
opponents bear no responsibility for the action. Terry says Tiller
was “a mass murderer and horrifically, he reaped what he sowed.”
What this really means is “Keep it up, it works! We can recruit mentally ill men to do our dirty work for us!”
“Several LIBs have stated that our soldiers are just over there killing and raping civilians for fun.”
I can’t say for sure for the other people you named. I am inclined to doubt it.
If you have evidence of this on my part, I am going to require you to present it. Find ANY poster who said something like that.
His brother David Roeder said in a statement to The Topeka Capital-Journal that the family is “shocked, horrified and filled with sadness at the death of Dr. Tiller” and the possible involvement of Roeder.
David Roeder said Scott is “kind and loving,” but suffered from mental illness at various times in his life.
http://www.kansas.com/news/tiller/story/834583.html
As for the shooting at the Army recruiters . . . that’s tragic and I of course condemn it.
The suspect is already in custody.
I’m guessing it is a vet who didn’t get what the Army promised. The recruiters are notorious for not delivering what they promise.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 3:50 pm | Permalink
Fine, so your issue is with those particular posters, not LIBs in general.
===================================
I think you got the point, Capn’A didn’t.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I’ve always gotten that point but I’m left wondering who the LIBs are.
Is your definition of LIBs any more complex than: LIBs = anyone who disagrees with ANTI?
Is your definition of LIBs any more complex than: LIBs = anyone who disagrees with ANTI?
===========================================
I use LIBs as a response to the blanket use of CONs towards everything evil.
And if President Bush was assassinated during the height of the Iraq war protests, yes, I would point the finger at the same inflammatory rhetoric: “sending our boys to die for oil” “Daddy’s revenge” “blood on his hands” “Hitler”
We are all just animals, really. Speech like that riles up our primal side.
I certainly don’t advocate a free-speech ban. I hope for self-moderation.
Is your definition of LIBs any more complex than: LIBs = anyone who disagrees with ANTI?
======================================
Trust me LIBs are not the only ones that disagree with ANTI.
“Several LIBs have stated that our soldiers are just over there killing and raping civilians for fun.”
Correct, JR.
That never happened. We have, rightly, pointed out crimes against humanity viz a viz torture and war crimes in places like Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.
The mercenaries from Blackwater are far more at fault than any service men, and it’s exactly what one would expect when one hires people to fight without having a military chain of command.
Speech like that riles up our primal side.
==========================================
I agree.
I heard on the radio a hour ago that the Randall Terry, the founder of Operation Rescue is not condemning that attack, saying Tiller “reaped what he sowed.”
My views on this issue will not change but there really needs to be other voices and organizatoins coming forward in the Pro-Life movement.
The viewpoint/statement by Terry is unacceptable.
That never happened.
======================
Yeah, and I suppose it never happened to the Vietnam Vets either?
“Yeah, and I suppose it never happened to the Vietnam Vets either?”
You put ME on your list.
I was not yet born when the Vietnam war began and not even a teenager when it happened. The only Vietnam vet I knew at the time was the neighbor’s son.
Capn I think your right about OR without Tiller they have no cause, not only that considering Cheryl Sullengers name and phone number were found in Roeder car isn’t good for them either, probably why their website is down, dont was evidence of harrasment leading to charges either civil or criminal
On the other hand, CONs, let’s hear you condemn this.
http://www.redstate.com/mr_ed/2009/05/31/breaking-kansas-abortionist-shot-killed-at-church/#comments
From the Right-Wing Red State blogsite:
We celebrate the breaking the laws every time the media canonizes Rosa Parks. She broke the law. There is no question of that. The question is whether it was the ethical thing to do (it was.) We celebrate the Nazi resistance, we celebrate the Tiananmen Square uprising. I’m sure those were all illegal actions, yet were unquestionably the moral things to do. So how would killing a killer, when all options are exhausted, not also be the right thing to do?
*****
And all the CONs on this Weblog answer with one voice, NO!
That’s what you’re telling me, right?
#
Mr_Kia
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Permalink
I heard on the radio a hour ago that the Randall Terry, the founder of Operation Rescue is not condemning that attack, saying Tiller “reaped what he sowed.”
My views on this issue will not change but there really needs to be other voices and organizatoins coming forward in the Pro-Life movement.
The viewpoint/statement by Terry is unacceptable.
=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Unfortunately, on most volatile issues, those who scream the loudest with the most incendiary speech are most likely to receive the widest reporting by the media.
“A Florida judge denied Rev. Hill his right to present a defense that claimed that the killing of the abortionist was necessary to save the lives of the pre-born babies”
Troy Newman, leader of the terrorist group Operation Rescue that has ties to Scott Roeder also believes in justifiable homicide.
http://www.mttu.com/Articles/Execution%20of%20Paul%20Hill%20Nothing%20Less%20than%20Murder.htm
Roeder had convicted clinic bomber Cheryl Sullenger’s name and number in his car. Cheryl admits to having conversations with Scott. Scott posted on Operation Rescue’s website about his desire to go to Tiller’s church and cause some problems inside the building. How long will it be until Scott starts spilling some names?
Mr_Kia Rev Holick is saying the same thing as Terry
So it’s NOT just a lone nut.
Told ya.
There’s more where that came from:
I can’t help but to follow the logic. “Doctor” Tiller is committing late-term abortions, which by any sane person’s calculation is infanticide. This is murder. Through perversion of the law, this is permitted, despite it flying the face of the history of civilization. This has been tolerated for two decades, and nothing has happened to stop the killing. He would have continued to commit this crime.
I can’t escape the conclusion that killing Tiller was the right thing to do. I am uncomfortable with this conclusion because it’s dangerous. But nevertheless, it was the ethical thing to do. Tiller would have continued to take numerous lives. Nothing was going to stop him. So someone did stop him. And now fewer lives will be taken.
I do not know Capn. I think where there is a will there is a way, but how many doctors are willing to put themselves in harms way when there are people out there that will kill them anytime, anywhere. It’s a sad day for women everywhere.
I can only hope that more will be done to protect them. Pro-choicers, here’s your opportunity to demand that.
TomPaine
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:08 pm | Permalink
Mr_Kia Rev Holick is saying the same thing as Terry
—————————————————-
Have not heard that. Same goes for him as well.
This is heinous.
The goal of the movement needs to be a nation of people (women) that do not desire abortions.
Uhh… Capn are you ill?
He is showing us some one else’s words wichi.
Can someone show me how to bold and italicize?
Thanks in advance
= Bold (remove the spaces)
= italics
“Pro-choicers, here’s your opportunity to demand that.”
I’m not sure I agree.
Tiller’s Clinic has been the Maginot Line of the culture war for about 15 years.
We’ve got birth control old and new, condoms, IUD’s, foams, pills, morning after pills, we’ve got RU 486.
Is it too much to ask that people having sex take some responsibility in preventing pregnancy these days? You can’t tell me that most people at the clinics were using birth control that failed. That’s not statistically possible.
We Libs have spent a helluva lot of political capital on this issue . . . to the point that important issues like health care and economic inequality have gotten short shrift.
And by golly, the CONs are right. There are millions of childless couples that want a newborn.
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink
= Bold (remove the spaces)
= italics
================
Damn.
for bold before the words you want bolded
use an ‘i’ for italics
to stop the bold.
Clarification: the 4:11 post was reposted from a right-wing website
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:25 pm | Permalink
for bold before the words you want bolded
use an ‘i’ for italics
to stop the bold.
======================
Damn. again.
“outlander” considers the assassination of Dr. Tiller –
“…a setback in the P.R. Dept for the pro-life movement….”
Yeah, well, we’re all sorry about that, too.
Tom,
We heard even worse from Rev. Dan Holman and Wichita’s own Steve Wetzel:
http://www.mttu.com/main.htm
Bold use html code to turn on and to toggle off
Hey, that’s not wysiwyg . . .
Anyway, use the “less than” sign B and “greater than” sign for Bold
Do the same thing for italics, except use I
Underline, use U
Strikethrough, use S
(Capital letters are not required)
Chilling snippet from Cristina Page:
For those who would like to think today’s murder in church of Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, is an isolated incident, here’s the horrifying news: You are wrong. The pattern is clear and frightening.
In March 1993, three months into the administration of our first pro-choice president, Bill Clinton, abortion provider Dr. David Gunn was murdered in Pensacola, Florida. That was the beginning of what would become a five-fold increase in violence against abortion providers throughout the Clinton years.
Today’s assassination of Dr. George Tiller comes 5 months into the term of our second pro-choice president. For anyone who would like to believe that this is a statistical anomaly, a coincidence that doesn’t portend anything, again, you are wrong.
During the entire Bush administration, from 2000-2008 there were no murders.
During the Clinton era, between 1994-2000 there were 6 abortion providers and clinic staff murdered, and 17 attempted murders of abortion providers. There were 12 bombings or arsons during the Clinton years.
During the Bush administration, not only were there no murders, there were no attempted murders. There was one clinic bombing during the Bush years.
One can only conclude that like terrorist sleeper cells, these extremists have now been set in motion. Indeed the evidence is already there. The chatter, the threats, the hate-filled rhetoric are abundant.
In the last year of the Bush administration there were 396 harassing calls to abortion clinics. In just the first four months of the Obama administration that number has jumped to 1401.
…
Battered women are at greatest danger of being killed by their abusers when they are most strong — that is, when they muster the courage to leave. The same phenomenon may be true in the abusive political abortion debate. The pro-choice movement, specifically our abortion providers, are in the greatest danger of violence when we take power. When the anti-abortion movement loses power, their most extreme elements appear to move to the fore and take control. The murder of Dr. Tiller suggests that violence against abortion providers may be far more linked to the power, or lack thereof, anti-abortion groups have politically than to laws designed to increase penalties against such acts.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_209562.html
Tom,
For even worse, try the blatantly terrorist Army of God site:
http://www.armyofgod.com/
Capn,
I understand your POV, and I won’t make this an all or none one issue. However, whether it’s you, me, your wife or your kid, we should have the right to visit a doctor and make whatever medical decisions we deem necessary for ourselves without the doctor being afraid for their life. All I’m asking is that doctors not be targets, and are protected if they are.
I’m outta here….have a nice day everyone!
Wahine_Tara
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:31 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
I personally don’t think lunatics that act in this kind of violence can be associated with either political party of power in our country.
This Roeder is a McVeigh like character (whose rage against the Government wasn’t just spawned during the Clinton administration but also under GHW Bush).
This lunatic fringe are people without representation (who probably will be forever). Their rage has no bounds and is not limited to towards one political party.
Bold and italics tags are enclosed inside the less-than and greater-than brackets ( the shifted “,” and “.” keys ).
“b” inside the brackets to start bolding, and “/b” to end bolding.
Use “i” and “/i” for italics.
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“b” . . . bold only. . . “i”. . . italic and bold words “/i”. . . bold only “/b”
So if the clinic closes (which I doubt) what are you ‘escorts’ going to do for fun?
emission tar 2008 depend years comparable
“David Roeder said Scott is “kind and loving,” but suffered from mental illness at various times in his life.”
Ya think?
Given his little christianist fish on his car and his “Jesus” sticker on the car… I think we have all the evidence we need of his mental illness.
He’s a christianist.
I rest my case.
Sorry Tara, I dont regret one post from yesterday. ALL evil in the world begins with someone’s religion.
Of course, those will holy water in their eyes will never see it.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Amerika will never be free until ALL religion is wiped from our soil. Too bad this particular form of mental illness has such social acceptance.
There will be more blood shed by the religious reich as long as christians stick their fingers in their ears and sing “lalalalalalal” every time one of their folks commits an act of lawless murder.
“What taunts, Okie………………. list them.”
Still waiting
sherrilmot
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
emission tar 2008 depend years comparable
=====================================
That is the most logical thing I have read today, sherrilmot.
“So if the clinic closes (which I doubt) what are you ‘christians’ going to do for fun?”
There. Fixed it for you.
Given his little christianist fish on his car and his “Jesus” sticker on the car… I think we have all the evidence we need of his mental illness.
He’s a christianist.
I rest my case.
=========================
Hate speech.
Pleased to be waiting for the link to ALL those posts that said u.s. military are over there to rape and murder for fun.
Proof?
Or just more arse leakage?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:45 pm | Permalink
“So if the clinic closes (which I doubt) what are you ‘christians’ going to do for fun?”
=========================================
Everything I’ve always done.
Amerika will never be free until ALL religion is wiped from our soil.
=======================
You must really hate Chas, he preaches Religion!
“Given his little christianist fish on his car and his “Jesus” sticker on the car… I think we have all the evidence we need of his mental illness.
He’s a christianist.
I rest my case.”
Care to point out what’s not the truth in that post.
His own brother says he mentally ill.
And you deny that he’s a christianist?
Deny. Deflect. Defend.
Thanks for proving, again, that you cant handle the truth.
Amerika will never be free until ALL religion is wiped from our soil.
—————————————————-
Yea that statement as “freedom” written all over it.
Lunacy.
Johnathon O’Toole, member of the Army of God had this to say,
“Troy Newman called Scott Roeder a “coward” because Scott Roeder aborted Troy’s raison d’etre in Wichita and pet fundraising pitch: Abortionist George Tiller. God marked Troy’s cowardly lie. The preborn deserve the same defense as the born.
No surprise Troy deleted the comment but it’s been saved with a screen shot.
Don’t worry for Troy, he’ll continue to get money from terrorism advocates and hide that money away from the authorities.
“Yea that statement as “freedom” written all over it.”
Kia, being a white, straight, christian male (or so he says) has never had the jack boot of religion on the back of his neck.
Obviously, he wouldnt have a five year old’s clue about reality.
Go back to drinking kia. We liked you better then.
Kia, being a white, straight, christian male (or so he says) has never had the jack boot of religion on the back of his neck.
=============================
What a drama queen.
“The preborn deserve the same defense as the born.”
Just what defense is that?
Nathaniel saying that single mothers should be scorned?
The crap heaped on me, the blog’s only single parent by the “pro life” crowd?
Christians.
The poor, poor, POOR persecuted majority.
And if they cant accomplish their dominionist goals within the law?
Pffft. They dont need no stinkin’ laws. They care their justice concealed.
Who needs law when you have hot and cold running murder on tap and at your disposal?
Who needs law when you have hot and cold running murder on tap and at your disposal?
=======================================
This just keeps getting better!
Care to point out what was false about my post, Anti?
Thanks again for proving you cant handle the truth.
“lalalalalalalalalalalalal”
Maybe the defense for the born is outlander telling us that “a baby is a gift from God, not to be trifled with”.
Oops no that’s the defense of the born again.
So.. you are anti rule of law in addition to “anti” anything that isnt white, straight, male and christian?
Color me surprised.
When Scott Roeder was arrested yesterday, he was driving a blue 1993 Ford Taurus with, in the rear window, a red rose — a symbol often used by advocates of illegal abortion — and on the back his car was a silver fish symbol with the word “Jesus” inside.
And on the dashboard of his car was a Post-It note with the phone number of Operation Rescue’s leader, a convicted clinic-bomber.
After a day to cool off and reconsider his rhetoric, Randall Terry today said Doctor Tiller “reaped what he sowed;” in other words, “he had it coming.
A lot of people don’t remember, but the meme “Drink the Kool-Aid” originated in Wichita, Kansas back during the “Summer of … (whatever it was called).”
One of Terry’s followers was interviewed. She was a sincere opponent of legal abortion, but she’s the one who said — and you can look it up — “Randall is passionate about what he believes in. But you don’t want to drink his Kool-Aid.”
There’s a wide, yet shallow, sub-culture of advocates of illegal abortion. They buy their guns at gun shows and fellow-travelers since legitimate dealers have to comply with background checks. They provide food and sustenance to serial murderers such as Eric Rudolph.
They wept real tears when Paul Hill was executed for cold-blooded murder of an abortion provider.
“ksfarmgrrl” is right.
This is a RICO case.
It’s been announced the murder of George Tiller will be treated as a state, not a federal, case. As a simple case of cold-blooded murder.
But the feds will get involved with the organization that generated yesterday’s crime.
It’s 5 o’clock.
I wonder if “parkay” has posted yet.
I appreciate Mr_Kia’s denunciation of the terrorist syndicalist, Randall Terry.
Also, did anybody else see this? Apparently, a civil war has broken out within Operation Rescue, with Randall Terry forcing Troy Newman out of Heartland Community Church, and suing him over ownership of the organization’s name.
“Mr. Troy Newman, Operation Rescue West, Resigns Suddenly From his Church; Operation…
Thu May 29, 2008 3:52pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text [+]
Mr. Troy Newman, Operation Rescue West, Resigns Suddenly From his Church; Operation Rescue Identity Theft Legal Complaint Linked Below
WASHINGTON, May 29 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, has filed suit against Mr. Troy Newman for fraudulently claiming to own the name, Operation Rescue.
Mr. Terry and several other Christians were in various stages of bringing formal complaints and charges against Mr. Newman at his church, Heartland Community Church, when Mr. Newman suddenly resigned in writing from that
congregation on May 27. At what Church can Mr. Newman now be questioned or
corrected?
“This case is only about one thing: whether Mr. Newman fraudulently registered the name Operation Rescue with the Trademark Office. We believe he did; and we believe the documentation linked below provides irrefutable evidence that I alone am the creator and owner of the name, Operation Rescue. We leave it to the press and the public to judge.”
“The press, the media, the pro-life movement, pro-life donors and pro-life activists need to see for themselves what Mr. Newman is attempting: Identity Theft. It is humorous that Mr. Newman and his cabal are attacking me – without having read the document I now release!”
— Randall Terry, Founder Operation Rescue”
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS214788+29-May-2008+PRN20080529
Crazy stuff, involving fanatical domestic terrorists, that I hadn’t yet seen reported.
Right. All Religion is Mental Illness.
For some of us, our faith moves us to do great things…we’re just a little quieter about it.
Keep on alienating about 70% of the American population, though. Hope that helps your causes.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
I’m not going to turn this discussion into back and forth personal attacks with you.
Your statement of “Amerika will never be free until ALL religion is wiped from our soil” is not that of a freedom lover and in my opinion gives you much more in common with the likes of Roeder than I.
Emerging evidence is showing a picture of accused shooter of abortionist quack Tiller, Scott Roeder, 51, as a mentally disturbed, angry, and potentially violent man, with a criminal history, who acted alone. Investigations attempting to discover if a conspiracy were involved in Sunday’s shooting would have to focus on the anti-government Freemen group, according to reports of Roeder’s past activities.
- – -
Let’s keep in mind that several criminal abortionist quacks were on the killing staff in Tiller’s abortion mill, involving several complaints now before the Board of Healing Arts, and that criminal prosecutions need to continue moving forward, if we are to have real justice.
- – -
In the years 1992-1995, three shootings of abortionist quacks drew more than 1,100 stories in 3 major newspapers and Associated Press, while 7 cases of abortion-advocate violence or harassment against pro-lifers got only 6 stories, and 6 examples of abortionists responsible for the death or disfigurement of women drew only 53 stories.
Just who is responsible for demonizing people here?
How do like being ruthlessly propagandized by the pro-abortion media again, folks?
What happened to the dancing poodle bigotbox?
Did they serve him papers already?
Hey bigotbox…I know the best lawyer in the state for your situation (like you could afford her).
I’ll bet parkay knew Scott Roeder. How ’bout it parkay, did you HELP Roeder with intel?
Dear Terrorist-sorry, Parkay,
Those phony equivalences show you to be quite the moral relativist. In addition to your other qualities as an inciter to violence and insurrection.
From the christianist terrorist manual.
“Pro-life” traditional values are genocide and mass murder Updated at 4:04 AM
“Traditional values” are, at their base, about being willful cheerleaders for mass murder and genocide. (I mean “tradition” as in the last 5000 years, not the era before that.) The Old Testament spells it out plainly.
Genesis 22:17
I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the stars in the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore.
Immediately the question arises as to where all those little grains of sand are supposed to live. Hey–no problem! Genocide, pillage and rape to the rescue!
Deuteronomy 7:1-2:
“… the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.”
Deuteronomy 2:26-35 “…we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.”
Numbers 31:16-18:
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
And you wonder where they get this violence?
The christianists get their first taste of it right along with mother’s milk.
Sorry if the truth “alienates” a majority of the population. You may be a good person, but I’m willing to bet it’s IN SPITE of your religion, not because of it.
Just so you know parkay?
I consider you an accessory to murder.
Parkay and Roeder live around the same area. I wonder if they belong to the same terrorist cell, I mean “prayer group”?
How the hell can a supposed “scientist” be in denial about truth?
I think that religion sometimes helps truly good people be better.
But it is MUCH more effective at making truly bad people worse.
My letter to Senator Roberts:
Now that the terrorist, Scott Roeder has been caught are you going to demand that he cannot be held in Kansas? After all, he does have a long history of terrorist acts and violence, can blend in with the populace, has friends outside prison, speaks the English language, and knows his way around Kansas.
Or have Kansas prisons suddenly become capable of holding terrorists?
As usual, the Rude Pundit says it best. He’s got a great series of posts up.
Scroll down to the Family Research Council “prayer chains” too.
But the one about sending roeder to gitmo is priceless.
Bad language. You christianists are such delicate little flowers, you would surely would melt. Dont click.
http://www.rudepundit.blogspot.com/
“Or have Kansas prisons suddenly become capable of holding terrorists?”
And if they put him in a Supermax, he’ll just recruit more christianists for the american taliban.
You know how those terrorist cells of religious jihadists operate.
Just put him in Gitmo.
I would post about it (I love posting about science and faith), but would it really change your mind, or waste 15 minutes of my time?
You’re a very sad person and I feel very badly for you.
That said, I think I’ll choose to interact with the more substantial posters. I wish you luck in all your endeavors, ksfrmgrrl.
ksfg,
Some of the Rude One’s finest work, that. What’s good enough for foreign Islamicist extremists ought to be good enough for domestic Christianist extremists.
Satatom
…………..bigotbawks (ie boxtop) has alwys tried to threaten and intimidate me. He claims to have a “dossier” compiled on me to turn over to local and state BOE to have me fired.
I am worried, NOT!
“Keep on alienating about 70% of the American population, though. Hope that helps your causes.”
Right.
Because we all know playing nice and trying to get along with the christianist taliban has worked SO WELL for us.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 4:59 pm | Permalink
Maybe the defense for the born is outlander telling us that “a baby is a gift from God, not to be trifled with”.
Oops no that’s the defense of the born again.
———–
Oh thanks for reminding me BJ. I asked you a few days ago when you posted my quote before(An excellent one BTW) what “not to be trifled with” meant to you, since you think it significant. You never answered. So, what does it mean?
satatom,
Hey punk…what’s all this crap coming out of your mouth, oh….I forgot, you are full of it.
And punk, why do you lie all the time? Is it because you are so inadequate you feel you need to or do you just like to. Maybe you can’t help it because that’s just the punk you are.
Or maybe you, along with kfg and a few others are just all riled up, peeing your pants, because you no longer have your Godhead around…is that it?
“Hmmm…wasn’t there a teacher that bawks repeatedly threatened (until the cowardly chickenman was called on it by the teacher…bawks NEVER showed up at the school board meeting”—the punk satatom
What makes you think I have to respond to anyone’s challenges dumbass? I never said I was going to a board meeting only that I was taking notes and might turn them into the school administration, not the school board. That poor excuse for a teacher is the one that brought in the school board and name dropping as if that would impress anyone. Say….where is that poor excuse for a teacher anyway….not around here anymore, wonder why (?), ha!
You are incredibly stupid remembering only what you would like and lying about it.
“Like the touchy issue of slavery, The Abortion controversy will not go away peacefully.”
Ya know, okie pulled that one too.
The abolition of slavery was about expanding freedom.
Attempting to ban abortion is about shrinking freedom.
More on the christianistas over at the family research council. They are calling the murder victim “Dr. Killer”.
“Contessa Brewer of MSNBC laid out the argument to Cathy Ruse, an FRC spokesman, who condemned the assassination—that if the police were looking for a mass murderer, which is how Dr. Tiller had been portrayed by the anti-choice movement, they would take him out with deadly force. So their arguments against Dr. Tiller were absurd. She got a little flustered and let something slip out that she probably wish she hadn’t.
Brewer: Look at the logic of it. If we knew that a mass murderer was running around, our law enforcement would do everything in their power to stop them and in that moment if a life was going to be taken, they would take that mass murderer out. So it would be a life, so if you believe or if someone believes that an abortion doctor is a mass murderer, I don’t know if logic is on your side there.
Ruse: This man who killed Doctor Killer, ahhh Doctor Tiller, excuse me, was apparently part of a movement, an anti-government movement who believe that they are not held within the law…
OK, a slip of the tongue, maybe…but then she cited facts that were not true.
Ruse: Interestingly, all the abortions that were done at 22 weeks and beyond by Tiller and others had been done for non emergency reasons so….
How does Ruse know this? Does the FRC know the medical history of every case that Dr. Tiller and others worked on? And at no time did Ruse ever mention the health of the mother. It’s like a mother doesn’t even exist in their thoughts. And when you call people mass murderers long enough, violence is sure to follow. It’s what David Neiwert has been writing about for a long time and his book (The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right) highlights. The violent rhetoric of the far right has great influence to lead people down a violent path.”
The nic switcher is back, isn’t that convenient (?).
Are you still the failure as a teacher as always?
Yep….that’s what I though!
Hey, you and satatom need to get together, or are you already when looking in the mirror. Ha!
Tara’s earlier post wins the blog daily award. Fairly balanced, calm, wants to be the voice of reason.
Me thinks she’s in the wrong place!!!
“Some of you Christian haters have forgotten that Tiller killed at his church.”
Gooooo Tara!
“few others are just all riled up, peeing your pants, because you no longer have your Godhead around…is that it?”
Godhead? Is that what you christianists are calling him now?
How very, very VERY christian of you.
It mystifies me how any even semi intelligent person can read the christianist posts here and just willfully not see that they are terrorists by any definition.
Ah Boxlock, who are you to determine if someone is “a poor excuse for a teacher”?
Do you have the credentials to make such an evaluation or is this a personal thing because this individual disagrees with your world view?
Boxlock20,
Like I said upthread. Man, do you have issues.
” The abolition of slavery was about expanding freedom.
Attempting to ban abortion is about shrinking freedom.”
No dimwit…it’s about expanding and preserving life.
Remember Jesus words, “live by the sword, die by the sword”.
If God says it you better listen.
Well outlander…
As I told you at the time, I think YOU would be better qualified to explain your own quote.
To me, it reads like it reads.
You would tell any woman in trouble that she is blessed.
I don’t believe in the God that you do. You tell me how a Down syndrome baby is a blessing.
Tell me how a woman who can barely afford the kids she has is “blessed” with another.
In summary, I believe you would like all abortion illegal. What am I missing?
“If God says it you better listen.”
Or what?
He’ll send another christian murderer to kill us?
jesus wept
Ya gotta wonder if bigotbawks knows he’s NOT god.
Or authorized to murder. Even though he’s threatened it.
Die by the “sword” ya know?
How VERY christian of you.
BJ writes: “The abolition of slavery was about expanding freedom.
Attempting to ban abortion is about shrinking freedom.”
———–
Jr that would be unless you were the child whose life is taken.
BJ writes: “The abolition of slavery was about expanding freedom.
Attempting to ban abortion is about shrinking freedom.”
———–
Jr that would be unless you were the child whose life is taken.
“Ah Boxlock, who are you to determine if someone is “a poor excuse for a teacher”?”
Just read his posts, read his posts.
Apparently you had a few that were no better.
“If God says it you better listen.”
I don’t hear God saying anything.
I’m sane that way.
bawk bbbbbaaaaawwwwwkkkkk bbbbaaaawwwwkkkkk bbaaawwwkkk
You still haven’t answered the question Boxlock.
Should I judge you as a person from what you post? Do you really want THAT?
Bluejay with all of the birth control that is available how does a women with a house full of kids get pregnant. She surely knows by now where they are coming from and it ain’t from drinking the water.
The rational the left uses is comical at least.
Maybe you should tell her about birth control instead of taking her for an abortion.
“Attempting to ban abortion is about shrinking freedom.”
Freedom? Aborting babies is a freedom?
Freedom to rape?
Freedom to kill?
Freedom to assault?
Freedom to abuse young children?
Freedom to rob banks?
Abortion is a dirty, disgusting, physically and emotionally exhausting event for a woman. Right or wrong, it leaves an life long impact. Some handle that emotionally better than others. Guilt makes it difficult for some.
And to Bluejay that’s a freedom to wave a flag over? Like the freedom to have a nose job?
Gee, I wonder if bigotbawks will now call out his minions to murder cheney?
“Cheney on Gay Marriage: Freedom for Everyone”
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone,” Cheney said in a speech at the National Press Club. “I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish.”
They better beef up his security or some christianist will take him out.
Maybe even while he’s at church!
Cheney goes to church?????
What does God say to you bawks?
Go thee forth and putest in thy mouth thy foot?
Spreadeth thee thy hoaxes, half truths, and lies?
“Freedom? Aborting babies is a freedom?”
Should be:
“Aborting a clump of cells is a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED FREEDOM”
Why do you hate the U.S. Constitution?
“Cheney goes to church?????”
Someone as purely evil as cheney had to learn it somewhere, didnt he?
By money is he learned it all in a christian church.
See terrorist manual post above.
……..satatom
Are you and I the same person and I don’t anything about it?
………if bigotbawks says it’s so, it MUST be so!
Do you want to meet me at the BOE meeting tonight bigotbawks?
“Maybe you should tell her about birth control instead of taking her for an abortion.”
And what DOES one tell a woman with Down’s afflicted fetus?
“Bluejay with all of the birth control that is available how does a women with a house full of kids get pregnant. She surely knows by now where they are coming from and it ain’t from drinking the water.”
Because they are as ignorant and irresponsible as BlueJ.
And just like BlueJ many don’t want to, or are totally incapable of accepting adult responsibility either.
OK, since you are avoiding the question BJ, let’s examine the word “trifle”. In this case it is used as a verb. Trifle: ‘to talk or act jokingly, mockingly, etc.; deal lightly”.
Now, let’s put it in the phrase: “Not to be trifled with” In other words a serious thing. A human life (baby) is not to be trifled with is it?
So, tell me what you disagree with in the quote. Besides the gift of God belief?
But that is YOUR belief outlander.
My friend kfg thinks all religion should be done away with. And while I don’t entirely agree with that, how is her belief any less valid than yours?
Who are you to inflict what you believe on someone else?
Hey parkay, Bluejay doesn’t like your opinions. He wants to get you banned.
I don’t agree with you, but I didn’t support the Bluejay Opposition Ban (BOB)..
“Because they are as ignorant and irresponsible as BlueJ.
And just like BlueJ many don’t want to, or are totally incapable of accepting adult responsibility either.”
That’s what a “pro lifer” says about me.
I have been a single father since my son was 1 year old.
Maybe Nathaniel will happen along to take a swing at me for being a single parent.
“Do you want to meet me at the BOE meeting tonight bigotbawks?”—Oedipus
Oedipus, I’m sure I could find more stimulating conversation in the ape house at the zoo than talking to you. I can think of nothing more mind numbing.
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 5:43 pm | Permalink
“Maybe you should tell her about birth control instead of taking her for an abortion.”
And what DOES one tell a woman with Down’s afflicted fetus?
—————————————————-
the idea of an abortion just because the child different is just completely inhumane.
BJ, if you don’t want to address it, just say so.
“I have been a single father since my son was 1 year old. ”
That, in and of itself, is nothing to brag about. It’s the quality of the parenting that is important and BlueJ….you don’t have it.
“Hey parkay, Bluejay doesn’t like your opinions. He wants to get you banned.”
Long time bloggers know, I do NOT take banning posters lightly. I stood up for Ian Santiago. Do a bone dig on that nic sometime.
There HAS to be a price to be paid for this murder. The incendiary rhetoric from folks like Parkay, Bill O’Reilly, etc. is responsible for this murder.
Off to the grill.
You dregs of society, you know who you are, enjoy your little cesspool here.
………………as usual, bigotbawks doesn’t get it.
The point of going to the BOE meeting is for YOU to present your “evidence” to administrators, Board members or whomever you wish that I am an educator worthy of termination.
I have no desire to speak to the likes of you anyway.
Put up or shut up, angry white man!
“I do NOT take banning posters lightly.”—BlowJ
What an ego maniac, ha.
You are totally impotent to do anything to anybody BlowJ, face it.
The incendiary rhetoric from folks like Parkay, Bill O’Reilly, etc. is responsible for this murder.
==============================================
No they aren’t.
Roeder is responsible, he did the killing.
Outlander it is YOUR quote. Perhaps YOU should better explain it.
My son’s mother had two miscarriages. We did not name either one or hold funerals.
“It’s the quality of the parenting that is important and BlueJ….you don’t have it.”
And you know this….how?
Many people who blog here have met my son. He is not undernourished, violent, rude, or in any way objectionable.
And BJ, your friend kfg is on my prayer list, whether she likes it or not. My God does let me off the hook for the love commandment by allowing that I have to like someone in order to love them.
cowardly bigotbawks whines
“Oedipus, I’m sure I could find more stimulating conversation in the ape house at the zoo than talking to you. I can think of nothing more mind numbing.”
BBBaaawwwkkk bawk bawk bbbbbbaaaaawwwwwkkkkkk!
Thanks to kfg the law is now onto the bigotbawks.
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 5:57 pm | Permalink
Outlander it is YOUR quote. Perhaps YOU should better explain it.
My son’s mother had two miscarriages. We did not name either one or hold funerals.
“It’s the quality of the parenting that is important and BlueJ….you don’t have it.”
And you know this….how?
———
?????????
“The point of going to the BOE meeting is for YOU to present your “evidence” to administrators, Board members or whomever you wish that I am an educator worthy of termination.”—Oedipus
Ha, as if the board has anything to do with pitifully unimportant peons like yourself.
Why do you go, to be a lap dog or gofer?
I do not understand why KSFarmGirl is all worked up and came back for this thread topic. She is the least likely to ever need an abortion service.
Is it the opportunity to trash what she sees as a religious position and therefore Christians? Is it because religion has cut her out and she feels hurt by that? A chance to get back at God and badmouth him?
But this is beyond a religious issue. As posted earlier, “Most Americans (51%) call themselves “pro-life” rather than “pro-choice” for the first time in the 15 years that Gallup has polled the question.”
Not all those are church goers and the turning tide of young Americans who are prolife are also not necessarily church goers.
So why trash religion, particularly since Tiller was a regular church goer?
dance poodle dance!!!!
American_Way
Posted June 1, 2009 at 5:59 pm | Permalink
I do not understand why KSFarmGirl is all worked up and came back for this thread topic. She is the least likely to ever need an abortion service.
Talk about sexist BS!!! AmWay PROVES his bigotry with unending ignorance.
“Thanks to kfg the law is now onto the bigotbawks.”
Watch me shake punk….just watch me shake. Ha!
Is that ass for real fellow blogger, kfg for that matter. I would love to have a laugh or two with the lessie’s and the punk’s “law” folks. They would laugh both of them off.
Outlander to a degree I have some hope for you and Kia.
Though kia more so than you.
Remember, I come from the “pro life” side. It was the hypocrisy and dishonesty drove me away.
You can kill (not you personally) all the providers of abortion. You can even make it illegal.
But you CAN’T MAKE it go away.
You can only help by helping women to choose as you would wish them to.
My God DOESN’T let me off the hook for the love commandment by allowing that I have to like someone in order to love them.
“She is the least likely to ever need an abortion service.”
It’s true, nothing but farm animals will get close to her, or it.
BJ. Save it.
KFG is as harmless as a dachshund and barks just as much.
““It’s the quality of the parenting that is important and BlueJ….you don’t have it.”
And you know this….how?”
That part was directed at bawks, not you outlander.
You never have answered my question Boxlock.
“Is it the opportunity to trash what she sees as a religious position and therefore Christians? Is it because religion has cut her out and she feels hurt by that? A chance to get back at God and badmouth him?”—American_Way
You are 100% correct again American_Way.
But God is quite a bit bigger than she is and fortunately slow to anger.
But….if kept up….she will lose.
Brave words chickenman.
Time will tell now won’t it?
Does your wife know that you will be facing charges?
Naw, you’re too cowardly to tell her what you’ve got yourself into here.
“You never have answered my question Boxlock.”
And I feel zero obligation to do so either, but you just keep holding your breath. I think it’s funny.
Surely Bigotbawks knows that the WPD has a unit DEVOTED to cyber crime?
They take it seriously.
#
satatom
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:05 pm | Permalink
Brave words chickenman.
Time will tell now won’t it?
Does your wife know that you will be facing charges?
Naw, you’re too cowardly to tell her what you’ve got yourself into here.
=====================================
That sounds like intimidation.
satatom, the keeper of threats…
You do realize they will look into your post as well…or did you not think that would happen?
“Talk about sexist BS!!! AmWay PROVES his bigotry ”
Not at all and I was NOT trying to insult her. She is an admitted gay, right? So if her and a partner really WANT a baby, she would have to work for it.
Perhaps, she may have been raped at a young age and required the abortion services, but those were legal in that case.
How does me saying that a gay person is unlikely to get pregnant (accidentally) make me a bigot?
And I’ve posted before I favor civil unions or confederate unions, or whatever you want to call the joining of two gay souls – with EQUAL legal and othe rights as married men and women. So I’m a sexist bigot?
Good grief! You cannot even SAY someone is gay around here without someone getting offended!
So Boxtop, you feel you can make slanderous statements about someone you know little about and then claim that you have no obligation to substantiate your claims?
“““It’s the quality of the parenting that is important and BlueJ….you don’t have it.”
That’s interesting.
I “DON’T” have it. But the millions of women seeking abortions do?
Hell, I’ve got 18 years experience. But a woman in trouble has a better resume than me?
Oh, I can see it now…”Boxlock, held without bond as a flight risk and menace to the blogsphere. The Dimlibs, and pro-death crowd just couldn’t take it anymore so we are suspending free speech and expression. Of course there is absolutely no justification for making a complaint of threats, but we have to protect the fragile conscious of the dimlibs.”
You are ridiculous satatom, and childish.
My friend who had no children and was in an abusive relationship was better qualified to be thrust into parenthood than me?
“you have no obligation to substantiate your claims?”
Certainly not to you…you seem unable to comprehend, not unusual for a dimwit, that you don’t deserve the respect to do so.
And you keep dancing poodle boy
keep dancing!
How many diapers have you changed bawks?
Or was that woman’s work?
So satatom asking an admitted gay questions in order to better understand them as a person makes someone a “sexist bigot”.
Talk about a dance.
Hey bawks?
Weren’t you going to call SRS on me because you thought me an unfit parent for teaching my son to be environmentally conscious?
Guess they didn’t take ya serious huh?
Told ya.
But you CAN’T MAKE it go away.
You can only help by helping women to choose as you would wish them to.
—————————————————-
You’re absolutely right.
And to wish an abortion on a woman I really don’t see as anything but promoting violence against her.
“But God is quite a bit bigger than she is and fortunately slow to anger. But….if kept up….she will lose.”
Hey Boxlock, you must be doing a super job as I see you have them falling all over each other drooling with spittle, frothing at the mouth to call you names.
Not much at the good book, but I think someone said a guy doesn’t have to defend it. Just speak it. It’s up to the receiver of the message how they acknowledge the message. If a negative response, like the song, just walk on by….
I want our readers to really pick up on this.
Boxlock20, who I for very good reason call “bawks” says that I am an unfit parent.
Because he disagrees with me.
I wonder who else someone like him or Scott Roeder would disagree with and what they would do, if they could.
“And to wish an abortion on a woman…”
Who does that?
But there are plenty of people who want to force parenthood on a woman. One of them even says an unwilling rookie would do a better job than the blog’s only single dad.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:28 pm | Permalink
I want our readers to really pick up on this.
Boxlock20, who I for very good reason call “bawks” says that I am an unfit parent.
Because he disagrees with me.
I wonder who else someone like him or Scott Roeder would disagree with and what they would do, if they could.
===============================
I dunno BlueJay, you are an advocate of banning free speech. I say you should run with that and see what happens.
“you are an advocate of banning free speech. ”
No, I am an advocate of restricting people to responsible speech.
Bill O’Reilly calling Dr. Tiller “the baby killer” for his audience of millions can, as we see, get people killed.
“I wonder who else someone like him or Scott Roeder would disagree with and what they would do, if they could.”
O.K., I don’t normally, but I really picked up. I got nothing. The above sentence really sucks, if you ask me. Did your post mean something?
“Because he disagrees with me” looks like a prepositional phrase and not a complete sentence.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 5:57 pm | Permalink
The incendiary rhetoric from folks like Parkay, Bill O’Reilly, etc. is responsible for this murder.
==============================================
No they aren’t.
Roeder is responsible, he did the killing.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Is this the face of an innocent man?
http://img1.picturewizard.com/1328EE9/0/6109.jpg
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:31 pm | Permalink
“And to wish an abortion on a woman…”
Who does that?
But there are plenty of people who want to force parenthood on a woman. One of them even says an unwilling rookie would do a better job than the blog’s only single dad.
————————————————–
I can’t be positive.
Those escorting women in for a procedure that is going to carry emotional ramifications for years to come (which btw these escorts are curiously absent from the healing process of) would be a good place to look however.
Encouraging one to choose life is not forcing one into parenthood they are unprepared for either.
WELL played Daniel!
Boxlock20
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:02 pm | Permalink
“Thanks to kfg the law is now onto the bigotbawks.”
Watch me shake punk….just watch me shake. Ha!
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
That’s a pretty bad tremor you’ve got there, Boxlock20…..you’d better make that next drink a double.
“Those escorting women in for a procedure that is going to carry emotional ramifications for years to come”
That’s an effect. Those people are not ghouls or in general even hired help.
THEY are there because of the people trying to deny that woman the right to make her own decision.
#
outlander
Posted June 1, 2009 at 5:57 pm | Permalink
And BJ, your friend kfg is on my prayer list, whether she likes it or not. My God does let me off the hook for the love commandment by allowing that I have to like someone in order to love them.
=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Would you mind putting me on your list, as well? I’ve had this darn cold now for two weeks and just can’t seem to shake it.
Thanks.
“btw these escorts are curiously absent from the healing process of”
That is not what they are there for and who says they would not be sympathetic if asked?
Daniel, while you are up, will you make me one too?
Rum and coke. Caffine free, diet. On the rocks.
“Encouraging one to choose life is not forcing one into parenthood they are unprepared for either.”
I know of ONE, truly pro life, and also former poster to this forum that exemplifies that.
Nathaniel ran her off.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:35 pm | Permalink
“you are an advocate of banning free speech. ”
No, I am an advocate of restricting people to responsible speech.
Bill O’Reilly calling Dr. Tiller “the baby killer” for his audience of millions can, as we see, get people killed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bill O’Reilly should be banned from this forum.
Boxlock20
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:14 pm | Permalink
Oh, I can see it now…”Boxlock, held without bond as a flight risk and menace to the blogsphere.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You’re not a flight risk…….chickens can’t fly!!!
Baaaaaaawwwwwkkkkkk!
“What taunts, Okie………………. list them.”
Still waiting
And still waiting.
Duh Libs are delusional if they think Foulston is going to buy into a conspiracy theory, when she has a locked up, bullet proof case against Roeder.
#
American_Way
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:45 pm | Permalink
Daniel, while you are up, will you make me one too?
Rum and coke. Caffine free, diet. On the rocks.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Caffeine free? Live a little, American_Way!
#
Daniel
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:49 pm | Permalink
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:35 pm | Permalink
“you are an advocate of banning free speech. ”
No, I am an advocate of restricting people to responsible speech.
Bill O’Reilly calling Dr. Tiller “the baby killer” for his audience of millions can, as we see, get people killed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bill O’Reilly should be banned from this forum.
——————————
Bill O’Reilly is a prima dona. He wouldn’t come here even if he had a contract telling him to do so. He would get a low level staff person to come investigate – maybe. But, I highly doubt it.
This issue means more to me now that I know that my own grandmother died from the results of an illegal abortion.
Driving abortion underground by intimidating providers or banning the procedure is a whole new ballgame in the information age.
There would be no shortage of providers and they would be very easy to find.
Medical competence and patient care might vary widely.
Is this the face of an innocent man?
http://img1.picturewizard.com/1328EE9/0/6109.jpg
=========================================
You must be joking.
#
WSClark
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:51 pm | Permalink
“What taunts, Okie………………. list them.”
Still waiting
And still waiting.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
For your sake, I hope you brought your dinner bucket.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Rum and coke. Caffine free, diet. On the rocks.
==================================
Puzzy.
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
You must be joking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Not entirely.
Did OBL fly those jets into the World Trade Center?
Did OBL fly that jet into the Pentagon?
Did OBL pilot that jet that crashed in that field outside of Shanksville, Pa?
An Islamic terrorist is the same as a Christian terrorist as far as I’m concerned. They both hold up an centuries-old book as their authority to compel you and I to live as they see fit, they’re both more than willing to kill those who disagree with them, and they both believe that their group, and their group alone, possesses the ability to inerrantly interpret the almighty word of God.
Fug’em both.
I’m guessing it is a vet who didn’t get what the Army promised. The recruiters are notorious for not delivering what they promise.
I am wondering if that is the case, my CC the first thing he said at the ungodly hour of 0400 after we got there at 0230. He ask us several questions about did the recruiter say this and did they say that? When we all said yes he then said
“Did your recruiters kiss you on the lips when they put you on the bus to come here? If they didn’t they should have because they damn sure screwed you!”.
I can’t get in on nearly 400 posts and hope to catch up or even read what has been written so far. All I can say is this: Army of God, and the Freemen, and Operation Rescue have all been good at attracting these terrorists. And it isn’t a mistake that they do so.
They went around harassing Tiller, his staff, his family, and any place even remotely associated with Tiller. They foster this ideal that he was a monster.
If a muslim had done this act on a regular doctor, the cons would be calling for these groups to be thoroughly investigated through homeland security. I think they must be stopped.
And if you think I’m saying this just because I am on the pro-choice side…I don’t think KFL draws the crazy crowd. Let them remain. But shut down these groups that advocate this terroristic view of abortion. Take the money of the groups that give money to the murderers like the Army of God. It is time for RICO in this…when it was overturned that was wrong in the first place.
OBL and Tiller’s killer aren’t even close to being comparable to each other.
To compare them and say they are the same is just ignorant.
To compare Tiller’s death to Jihad is also ignorant.
They both hold up an centuries-old book as their authority to compel you and I to live as they see fit
Evidently Tiller was into that centuries-old book as well.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:09 pm | Permalink
OBL and Tiller’s killer aren’t even close to being comparable to each other.
To compare them and say they are the same is just ignorant.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
True, it probably is an unfair comparison to make. Roeder actually killed an American.
I would like Daniel to go to NYC and make the same claim that Osama Bin Ladin and the suicide bombers are both equal to Roeder on the terror scale.
He’d be lucky to make it out alive from JFK International.
#
Regular
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
They both hold up an centuries-old book as their authority to compel you and I to live as they see fit
Evidently Tiller was into that centuries-old book as well.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I was comparing Islamic terrorists with Christian terrorists.
True, it probably is an unfair comparison to make. Roeder actually killed an American.
=====================================
How many Americans has Islamic Jihad killed?
Christian terrorists
============================
Who are they?
Who are they killing in mass numbers?
Who’s heads are they sawing off?
Who do they advocate killing because of their religion?
#
Regular
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:14 pm | Permalink
I would like Daniel to go to NYC and make the same claim that Osama Bin Ladin and the suicide bombers are both equal to Roeder on the terror scale.
He’d be lucky to make it out alive from JFK International.
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The only difference is a matter of scale.
They use the same authority for their acts and the ends are the same.
Randall Terry really thinks the bloody images are effective in his goal of getting people to join with him?
They are effective alright, no one can stand to look at them and that causes them to not think about it.
If you really want people to see the issue of abortion as you do, then show the end result of birth a live wonderful baby. Terry has an illness a sad and quite pathetic illness he thinks that somehow showing the horror will cause others to see the horror. IT DOES NOT WORK! Only those who desire such horror can stand to look at them. Maybe Terry has a 8X10 picture of a aborted fetus on the nightstand beside his bed to inspire him for the next day. But for the rest of us there is no association with the bloody pictures and that of a baby.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:15 pm | Permalink
True, it probably is an unfair comparison to make. Roeder actually killed an American.
=====================================
How many Americans has Islamic Jihad killed?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
How many Americans has OBL killed?
The only difference is a matter of scale.
=======================================
Really?
So, if a Hispanic kills a Black, we have a Race War?
The nartional news just reported that Roeder was deep into Operation Rescue and had close ties with Randall Terry.
Naaaah….no conspiracy here folks!
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:17 pm | Permalink
Christian terrorists
============================
Who are they?
Who are they killing in mass numbers?
Who’s heads are they sawing off?
Who do they advocate killing because of their religion?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So it’s only terrorism when heads are being sawed off?
So it’s only terrorism when heads are being sawed off?
====================================
Damn.
I suppose you didn’t note or want to reply to your comparison?
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:20 pm | Permalink
The only difference is a matter of scale.
=======================================
Really?
So, if a Hispanic kills a Black, we have a Race War?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Of course not. Why bring race into a discussion about religiously motivated terrorists.
Like I said before, fug’em both. If your cool with the Christian Terrorists, so be it.
Look Daniel,
In general I enjoy your post. I think we can agree to disagree on this, respectfully.
I would hope you understand.
If not it will probably get nasty and I (and I hope you) don’t want to do that.
I am in a somewhat good mood.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:25 pm | Permalink
So it’s only terrorism when heads are being sawed off?
====================================
Damn.
I suppose you didn’t note or want to reply to your comparison?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So it’s only terrorism when there are mass numbers of casualties? When the Taliban assassinated Benzir Bhutto in Pakistan just prior to the elections, was that not terrorism?
The terrorists are Scott Roeder (allegedly), Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, and those who financially support them.
Who do they want to kill? Abortion providers, obviously.
I am not ‘cool’ with any Terrorists.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:28 pm | Permalink
Look Daniel,
In general I enjoy your post. I think we can agree to disagree on this, respectfully.
I would hope you understand.
If not it will probably get nasty and I (and I hope you) don’t want to do that.
I am in a somewhat good mood.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
That’s fine. There’s never any reason to get nasty.
Dan trust me, I wish the guy that killed Tiller gets the death penalty.
#
ANTI
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
I am not ‘cool’ with any Terrorists.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I know. I kind of had my toe right up to the line on that one. I apologize.
I know. I kind of had my toe right up to the line on that one. I apologize.
======================================
Believe it or not, my emotions get rattled too!
;)
I think I’d better go cut the grass while it’s still dry. We might get rain the next couple of days. Have good one.
I think I’d better go cut the grass while it’s still dry. We might get rain the next couple of days. Have good one.
============================
You too, I should probably do the same.
Caffeine free? Live a little, American_Way!
Keeps me awake during the work week. I have to be able to get up early to earn lots of money so I can pay taxes to fund the UNearned Income Tax Credit, corporate welfare, farm welfare, and social welfare, and just for CapnAmerica – DoD welfare.
Anti, on weekends I graduate up to Coke Zero. It’s got the full balsy levels of caffeine.
American_Way
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:39 pm | Permalink
Keeps me awake during the work week. I have to be able to get up early to earn lots of money so I can pay taxes to fund the UNearned Income Tax Credit, corporate welfare, farm welfare, and social welfare, and just for CapnAmerica – DoD welfare.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Sounds like you’d better take a second job!
“Hey Boxlock, you must be doing a super job as I see you have them falling all over each other drooling with spittle, frothing at the mouth to call you names.
Not much at the good book, but I think someone said a guy doesn’t have to defend it. Just speak it. It’s up to the receiver of the message how they acknowledge the message. If a negative response, like the song, just walk on by….”
Thank you American_Way,
It’s really dirty work dueling with imbeciles, but unfortunately somebody’s got to do it and I will take my shift in the dirt for awhile until I feel I am getting too dirty in the process. I realize that is happening when I read my own post on occasion.
I think you know more of the ‘good book’ than you admit and you are certainly right, put it out there and let what happens happen. I poke sticks occasionally just for the fun of it because of the way they squirm.
“somebody’s got to do it and I will take my shift in the dirt for awhile until I feel I am getting too dirty”
Boxlock you need some strong stuff to get the lib dirt off. Ajax, comet, Formula 409, and Resolve
might work. After extremely long exposure to the pig trough of lib humanity suckling from the
government, you might try industrial strength Lava.
Sometimes it’s like radiation, it’s best to limit one’s exposure.
From The Army of God anti-abortion webpage:
“The lives of innocent babies scheduled to be murdered by George Tiller are spared by the action of American hero Scott Roeder.”
David I don’t think anyone has challenged the fact that there are extremists on both sides out there.
That doesn’t mean that an upright liberal socialist democrat like you would kill anyone.
Daniel, Anti is ujp top his usual:
D. D. D.
Deflect; Distract; Deny!!
That’s the onlyh way he and his goon squad buddies know how to do!! I think they have a manual that teaches them how to do it…
And maybe we could actually get somewhere with the Birth Control issue, if the same “Pro-Life” people wouldnt be out there ranting against Birth Control as well… SOME of them dont even believe in the use of condoms!!
SOME want to protect their jobs in Pharmacies because they dont believe in selling methods of Birth Control… And they think their employers are BAD people for telling them to sell it, or hit the bricks…
IF we can get past this point, there MIGHT… MIGHT… be room for helping eliminate the need for abortions…
So, anybody want to attack the Anti-Birth Control rants and raves??
So, anybody want to attack the Anti-Birth Control rants and raves??
========================
Your face is birth control enough.
(chortles)
“SOME of them dont even believe in the use of condoms”
I never liked condoms. Take away from the experience. You know what I mean by “the experience” don’t you Chas?
Always wanted the woman to be on the pill. Fortunately for me, I sowed my wild oats during my first two tours in the Marine Corps. (And yes Olongapo was a sexual fantasy land)
Then damned if I didn’t get sent stateside for a little Independent Duty and fall in love. Got married and have been faithful ever since. Wondered about that policy early on – until the first stick people from AIDS started making the news. Never even flirted after that. Safe at home plate.
Pity the kids today. Lot’s of stuff much worse than the black clap out there now. But there are more options for birth control, day after pill, and I’m told new rubbers which aren’t made out of industrial strength sheep skin.
Any stats on who is getting abortions? Is it slow, middle, or upper class folks predominately?
Low IQ for the most part? Oh I’m sure woman and mostly girls get knocked up from all classes, it takes all kinds – but the poor are usually singled out as the disadvantaged. I wonder if they are shy of rubbers too.
Inquiring minds want to know.
fantasy s/b disneyland. Sexual disneyland. I credit age for that slip.
Amway,
Shy of rubbers? What difference would that make to you? “I never liked condoms. Take away from the experience.”
“(And yes Olongapo was a sexual fantasy land)”
No child support payments eh?
“Your face is birth control enough.”
Having seen you?
I don’t imagine your wick has been dipped in quite a while. Hm, probably why you’re against abortion. That’s common enough.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 8:51 pm | Permalink
I don’t imagine your wick has been dipped in quite a while. Hm, probably why you’re against abortion. That’s common enough.
—————————–
I’m not against abortion in some cases, health of mother, fetus won’t survive, incest, rape, etc.
What I object to is it being used as a method for birth control.
Also, am strongly against the late term abortion where the fetus can survive outside the mother.
Shy of rubbers? What difference would that make to you? “
Well it would be good to know the statistics of who is getting abortions. We know who is having out of wedlock babies to a huge percentage over the rest of the population (hint: Obama addressed this to his folk). To solve the problem, we need to address the population of young girls who are getting knocked up. Simple really. Identify the problem, work the problem for solutions.
“No child support payments eh?”
Too old now for that. But I’m always wondering who might show up at my door to introduce me to grandchildren I didn’t know about. True stories from other retired vets are out there.
As a past president of the Ugly Club, I shrudder to think about what a half-me half Filipino would look like.
Chas,
I’ve advocated birth control ever since the pill was announced. Unfortunately it was a liberating invention and there are a lot of guys (and a few gals even) who can’t stand to see women liberated- mostly from them. That’s the real subtext of the birth-control battle. Until we can cure control freaks that will always be an issue. Daylight helps.
“What I object to is it being used as a method for birth control.”
That’s what it is for. It happens in nature all the time.
“BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 8:51 pm | Permalink
I don’t imagine your wick has been dipped in quite a while.”
This from the stay-at-home-blog-all-day-all-night single dad.
I’m no cassanova, but I sure as h*ll know that there are not enough hours left in Bluejay’s day to even meet a woman. No offense intended BJ. But your life revolves around the blogs and we can all see that.
There are only 13% of counties in the United States where abortions are performed… There are now only TWO Doctors nationwide that provide late-term abortions… TWO… And all of this fear mongering, and hate mongering over THREE (now two) Doctors!! All of the rants about the “Thousands” of abortiions!!! Yea, sure, right…
Abortion is LEGAL… If you dont believe in Abortion, then dont GET one… Leave people alone who are doing LEGAL things —
#
Chas
Posted June 1, 2009 at 8:20 pm | Permalink
Daniel, Anti is ujp top his usual:
D. D. D.
Deflect; Distract; Deny!!
That’s the onlyh way he and his goon squad buddies know how to do!! I think they have a manual that teaches them how to do it…
=======================================
Uh huh…I have no ‘goon squad’, put your urine stained Styrofoam helmet back on.
DA.
“address the population of young girls who are getting knocked up.”
That’s a misconception. No pun intended.
Women choose abortion for largely resource reasons. In many cases, they don’t wish to subdivide their already meager sustenance with another mouth to feed.
Amway,
His folk? You hit the problem right on the nose there! Until they become OUR folk that’s always going be a problem. Of course you’re not about to let that happen; your folk are white as the driven snow.
I don’t know if you LIBs know this, but Chas proclaims to be a Christian (gasp) Pastor…He must be a terrorist!
I will await your outrage.
There’s cons that post here a lot more than me, “American way”.
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.
=============================
BlueJay is more of a Cum-N-Go type.
“There are now only TWO Doctors nationwide that provide late-term abortions… TWO…”
Imagine that! Only two doctors nationwide who would induce labor and pull a late term baby, which survive outside the womb every day in this country as “premees” to the opening of the womans body, and take basically a pair of pliars and crush the babies skull before it emerges, stick a hose into the crushed opening in the skull, and suction out the brain so the body will not take breath life once extracted.
Only two! Wow! Is it any wonder why?
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.
====================================
BlueJay thinks women are ‘that evil’.
Nice.
But your life revolves around the blogs and we can all see that. [AmWay]
And this from a gujy/gal who has been posting herre now for over 10 hours… Yea, sure right…
LOL
Only two! Wow! Is it any wonder why?
====================================
Fuq the doctors, buy a wood chipper…Health care at a cheap cost, eh?
“I don’t know if you LIBs know this, but Chas proclaims to be a Christian (gasp) Pastor…He must be a terrorist!”—ANTI
Nice observation ANTI, it’s either a Christian minister and a terrorist, or a faux minister and not a terrorist.
Hum, what’s it gon’a be there Chas,…..ah, I’m placing my money on faux minister.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:02 pm | Permalink
“What I object to is it being used as a method for birth control.”
That’s what it is for. It happens in nature all the time.
==================
Miscarriages are not the same as abortions. The results may be similar, but in the latter, a conscious human decision is involved.
In miscarriages, there is no decision, it is a physiological function of mammalian biology.
Also, in abortions, a healthy human fetus is often aborted, more so in late term abortions where the procedure is unusually cruel. Heck, I wouldn’t do that to an animal, much less a human.
Tiller must have been a terrorist then, he was a Christian according to accounts.
#
Daniel
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:14 pm | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted June 1, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
They both hold up an centuries-old book as their authority to compel you and I to live as they see fit
Evidently Tiller was into that centuries-old book as well.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I was comparing Islamic terrorists with Christian terrorists.
————-
You know Daniel, there is a line of thought that makes some sense with regard to abortion. That is, that anyone who kills their kid for convenience’s sake, deserves to have their kid dead. That way they don’t reproduce.
But then the innocent human life issue comes in. Which is a real big deal with pro-lifers. Of course, dipsh*ts like some pro-choice folks around here like to make abortion a religious issue, even though an awful lot of agnostics and even atheists are also pro-life. Or there are even some wackos who compare sober conniving, Islamic terrorists with deranged nut cases who happen to claim to be Christian.
Ah well. Watcha gonna do?
Gosh, Anti — That would make Dr. Tiller a terrorist too, and the entire congregation where he was attending worship services…
You are a flake… a real NUT job!! Better be prepared for a knock on your door!! You and a few others on this Blog… Especially if you dont watch what you say!!
“which survive outside the womb every day in this country”
Every DAY? Really?
The FACT is that late term abortions are exceedingly rare. It was mentioned on O’Reilly’s show that he had done only a few hundred of them the last several years. Dr Tiller was one of three physicians who do them. You do the math.
Of course, O’Reilly LIED and said Dr. Tiller had done 60,000 late term abortions. Even though just a few minutes before he noted that Dr. Tiller had done some 60,000 abortions during his entire career.
Sean Hannity had a much celebrated case about an intended abortion that survived.
The “baby” lived only about half an hour.
SOME women are just not up to delivering a baby that is condemned to quick death. I cannot imagine what heartless SOB would inflict that on them.
“Until they become OUR folk that’s always going be a problem.”
Have you never listened to black people talk to one another? I am not stereotyping. It is the truth. Obama said that. OBAMA!!!
African American teens have by far – exceedingly by far highest number of out-of-wedlock births. Obama said the men (fathers) have to be held accountable and something needs to be done.
Bill Cosby is even MORE direct on the matter. Go google him.
Stats do not lie. They should be used as a basis for discussions to resolve the problem. Millions of intelligent young black women are forced into motherhood, giving up their futures, possible professional careers, and educated salaries.
Bill Cosby says it best – it IS a problem with “black folk”.
Until knuckleheads stop blaming “society” for all the worlds problems – nothing will get done. This give peace a chance, touchy-feely goody-goody nonesense of blaming others will never get er done.
Chas
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:15 pm | Permalink
Gosh, Anti — That would make Dr. Tiller a terrorist too, and the entire congregation where he was attending worship services…
================================
According to KFG and her leftist friends, you are right.
You are a flake… a real NUT job!! Better be prepared for a knock on your door!! You and a few others on this Blog… Especially if you dont watch what you say!!
===========================
I will ask you the same question I asked KFG(she wouldn’t answer), Why is that?
“which survive outside the womb every day in this country”Every DAY? Really?”
Yes Chas. Premature babies, babies which are in the third trimester are born every day in America. Late term babies live to be productive adults. Many thousands of them. We’ve had them in my extended family and friends.
According to Wiki, in one year, 1,032 late term abortions were performed.
“Women choose abortion for largely resource reasons. In many cases, they don’t wish to subdivide their already meager sustenance with another mouth to feed.” and….
“I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.”—BlowJ
Ladies, what a great guy. Wants to play but with no responsibility, and then if you end up pregnant, well he expects you to just kill the new human being as he want’s no responsibility there either. No conscience either.
Degenerate!
Chas?
#
Chas
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:15 pm | Permalink
You are a flake… a real NUT job!! Better be prepared for a knock on your door!! You and a few others on this Blog… Especially if you dont watch what you say!!
=================================
Oh yeah?
Yo mama wore combat boots!
(chortles)
Get your posters straight “American way”.
I’m the one calling you on your use of the late term abortion argument. It’s dishonest.
Hey outie,
Did you know that a number of early christan groups practiced abortion for strictly theological reasons? And they were far closer to Jesus, temporally, liguistically and geographically than you will ever be!
“The FACT is that late term abortions are exceedingly rare. ”
And don’t confuse yourself Chas. My post was about babies surviving when born into the world during late term.
I was not talking about the ones being aborted. I’m sure a few are sickly things, as you infer. But the procedure is the same – whether it was a sick baby or potentially a healthy one.
“Degenerate!”
Squeaked the “pro life” poster to the blog’s only single dad.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:23 pm | Permalink
“Degenerate!”
Squeaked the “pro life” poster to the blog’s only single dad.
===========================
So said Kum-N-Go.
That’s nice Jed. Thanks for sharing.
Well Bluejay you are confused. GO back and reread the post you are concerned with.
I’m talking about babies which can survive and do survive premature birth.
You twisted that to talk about a few sickly babies. Not me. The process is the same. The performing doctor cracks their skulls like opening snow crabs for dinner and then sucks out the brain.
You can try to justify late term abortions in your mind by fooling yourself that the babies would die anyway. But that would not be the truth in many cases. I’m sure a few of the abortions are sickly cases. But I’m just as sure many are not.
Chas,
You and KFG have one thing in common with your threats, you are holding air in your hands.
I’m guessing it is a vet who didn’t get what the Army promised. The recruiters are notorious for not delivering what they promise.
I am wondering if that is the case,
You guess wrong. APparently it was a Muslim convert upset with the Army. According to reports, he had never served in the military.
“BlueJay Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:07 pm | Permalink
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.”
There you have it folks. To Bluejay woman are just an object to be used. Not even human. Not meant for relationships.
In other words, Bluejay restricts his sexual relationships to women he doesn’t know well enough to take home or know where he lives.
Can anyone say Bluejay is talking about hookers?
Pretty messed up if you ask me. Might as well get yourself a blow up doll Bluejay, if that all a woman is to you.
Bluejay I hear tell they make some realistic looking blow up dolls now. Real hair everywhere. Pick your colors. And vibro mouth, and well, you know the rest…
Suggest you look into that. You wouldn’t have to worry about a woman finding out where you live.
“in one year, 1,032 late term abortions were performed.”
That’s from “Regular”.
“I’m sure a few of the abortions are sickly cases. But I’m just as sure many are not.”
Then you’re not thinking very rationally.
1,032 in a year would be well within the parameters of severe birth defect pregnancies.
AmWay asks, who gets abortions these days?
That is a very good question.
We assume it’s unmarried teen agers, but what are the facts?
*****
Regular claims he’s against “late term” abortions. Well, duh.
That’s why Kansas law required two physicians to sign off that the health of the mother was in danger.
Not good enough for Troy’s Boys though . . . the health of the mother be damned.
“You are a flake… a real NUT job!! Better be prepared for a knock on your door!! You and a few others on this Blog… Especially if you dont watch what you say!!”
Sounds like a threat to me.
TUESDAY, Sept. 23, 2004 (HealthDay News) — Abortions in the United States fell 33 percent between 1974 and 2004, but sizeable differences among racial and economic groups continue to exist as to who gets an abortion, a new report says.
While the number of abortions among teens has also dropped dramatically, down 50 percent, abortion rates are still high among older women with children and poor women, according to the report from the Guttmacher Institute.
“There’s been a shift in the population of women obtaining abortions relative to 30 years ago,” said Rachel Jones, a senior research associate at the institute. “They are older, they are more likely to be unmarried, more likely to be mothers, and they are more likely to be women of color
. . . .
Other findings in the report, titled Trends in the Characteristics of Women Obtaining Abortions, 1974 to 2004, include:
The teen abortion rate dropped from 33 percent in 1974 to 17 percent in 2004.
57 percent of abortions in 2004 were among women in their 20s.
Most abortions (89 percent) in 2004 occurred during the first trimester.
Abortions performed at seven weeks or sooner after pregnancy increased from 16 percent in 1994 to 28 percent in 2004.
60 percent of abortions in 2004 were among women who already had children, up from 50 percent in 1989 and 46 percent in 1974.
Laurie Rubiner, vice president of public policy at Planned Parenthood, said the report underscores the disparities in women’s health care in the United States.
“This study highlights what we at Planned Parenthood see every day — affordable access to birth control is the best way to prevent unintended pregnancies,” Rubiner said. “Unfortunately, there are more than 45 million uninsured Americans and more than 17 million American women who need help getting their [birth control] pills filled,” she said.
“There you have it folks. To Bluejay woman are just an object to be used. Not even human. Not meant for relationships.
In other words, Bluejay restricts his sexual relationships to women he doesn’t know well enough to take home or know where he lives.”
Actually BlueJay can easily hide his identity and person from his ‘dates’,…..he simply puts on a glove.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/619628.html?chan=autos_executive+health+–+lifestyle+subindex+page_health+news
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:07 pm | Permalink
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.
__________________________________
LOL
Interesting attitude about the gentle sex. Probably explains why the only long term relationship he’s ever had has been with his mother.
“There you have it folks. To Bluejay woman are just an object to be used. Not even human. Not meant for relationships.”
Well THERE’S some gymnastics!
And you were already IN a routine.
I’M the one here defending the right of WOMEN to choose.
Don’t get me started on how men don’t get a choice.
But that doesn’t have anything to do with my preference for casual sex. I have needs. Women have needs.
I have chosen NOT to expose my son to that.
Also, I have no desire to play “Brady bunch” and mess with the heads of another woman’s kids or their father’s relationship to them.
Wow, Parkay has not a single iota of compassion for Tiller or Tiller’s family.
Nothing for how he didn’t deserve what the right-wing terrorist did to him and his family and community.
Zero, zilch, zippo.
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
“Interesting attitude about the gentle sex. Probably explains why the only long term relationship he’s ever had has been with his mother.”
Says the dad who should be listening to “The cat’s in the Cradle” instead of bashing on me out of jealousy for fatherhood he ran away from.
You apparently chose to replace your son’s mother after you abandoned her and him Hank.
It seems to be working for you. I didn’t want to mess with my son’s head like that.
Chas?
Your threat?
Can we PLEEEZE have one night in which all the wing-nuts DON’T pile on Blue Jay and call him every name in the book and try to verbally emasculate him and turn every post he makes into ridicule and mockery.
The right-wing mob has run off about 2/3rds of the libs that used to post here.
Just lay off the few that remain, okay?
The right-wing mob has run off about 2/3rds of the libs that used to post here.
Just lay off the few that remain, okay?
====================================
Heh heh.
CapnAmerica
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:43 pm | Permalink
========================================
In “Monkeyhawk’s” words: And they say irony is dead.
“But that doesn’t have anything to do with my preference for casual sex. I have needs. Women have needs.”—BlowJ
And like everything else in your life YOUR “needs” are all you are concerned about, and at the expense of anyone and everyone else.
Slug!
Let it go Capn. It reveals volumes about them.
If I ever told my WHOLE story here, the cons would have to make me a saint. But they couldn’t do THAT. So they would use it to try and hurt me.
I don’t need to give them that much. It speaks volumes that the blog’s only single parent gets so much crap from people who call themselves “pro life”.
Not surprisingly, those seeking abortion are the same ones who lack regular health care.
Health care may be one of the biggest preventatives of unwanted pregnancy.
Maybe Operation Rescue should fight for universal health care?
hehe, yeah, right . . .
the blog’s only single parent
================================
And you know that how?
Just as a for instance, Nathaniel USED to refer to his stepmother as Joyce.
Now, he passionately defends her as “mom”.
I wouldn’t do that to my kid. I also don’t have any desire to do that to anyone else’s kid.
Fine.
As far as I know, the blog’s only single parent.
Says the dad who should be listening to “The cat’s in the Cradle” instead of bashing on me out of jealousy for fatherhood he ran away from.
________________________________________
LOL
Still trying to sell that old line?
Hopefully you’ve learned to use some kind of protection during your casual sexual encounters. Your mom getting a little old, it would be unfair to make her raise another child of yours.
But then, the best birth control you have going for you is that dirty T-shirt you always wear.
It speaks volumes that the blog’s only single parent gets so much crap from people who call themselves “pro life”.
No kidding, Jay. If you were a wing-nut, like Sarah Palin’s daughter, then you’d be a shining beacon of the “culture of life.”
I notice that none of the pro-life crowd has taken me up on my offer that they should adopt a foster child.
Yup, the “pro-life” crowd is really “pro-birth,” forcing women to bear the consequences of sex.
Once the baby is born . . . pro-life?
Nah. Not so much.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:53 pm | Permalink
Fine.
As far as I know, the blog’s only single parent.
=======================================
That is more respectful.
His brother says Scot suffered from mental illness at various times in his life, so in effect, we have the RR using the mentally ill to do their dirty work. Must make them proud.
I notice that none of the pro-life crowd has taken me up on my offer that they should adopt a foster child.-Capn’A
==========================
Have you, moneybags?
“Still trying to sell that old line?”
I’ve heard a few things.
They make sense and explain a great deal.
But just as I will not tell my entire story here, I won’t share yours which I cannot confirm and would serve no real purpose.
There IS a reason why you have been specially drawn to attack me since the beginning of this blog. At least for myself, I understand it now.
Peace out.
“But then, the best birth control you have going for you is that dirty T-shirt you always wear.”
What is your son’s secret?
I bet I’ll be a grand parent before you will.
I like to think I am already.
Capn,
Just look at BlueJay’s posts, his values and value system, or lack there of, that he continually verbalizes here.
I would venture to say there is not a single ‘wing-nut’ that WANTS to dislike BlueJay, or to ‘pile on’. Not even me!!! But his posts represent the most obnoxious, valueless, lazy, dependent, parasitic, faithless identity I have ever encounter.
Don’t lose heart BlueJay because kfg runs a close second and may win that title.
BlueJay is free to express his opinion, but he doesn’t confine himself to just that, he “piles on” everyone that posts any thing that upholds traditional values and I for one will not sit idly at this keyboard and let it pass in my country.
“notice that none of the pro-life crowd has taken me up on my offer that they should adopt a foster child.-Capn’A”
As if that justifies killing them????
Yah right, Jay.
Let’s do a bone dig, OK? 9 out of 10 threads you make it personal first.
You claim I abandoned Nathan and his mother. It’s a lie. But not in your world, because you are a pathological liar.
And Joyce is Nathan’s Mom. He’s a very fortunate man. He’s had two mothers that loved him very much.
Next time we meet I’ll tell you the real story so you don’t have to make up crap any more.
Oh and Hank?
If you want to post suppositions as to me and my family, I will feel free to post what I have learned may or may not be true about yours.
I’m a little tired of you taking your absent father guilt out on me.
I bet I’ll be a grand parent before you will.
_________________
Have your boy check with your mother first, she hasn’t quite got your Nathan raised yet.
DO your bonedig. You have spent four years often attacking me on threads I don’t even post.
Like I say, I know where it comes from now.
As if that justifies killing them?
That’s called the “either – or” fallacy, Boxlock.
*****
Wow, Rachel Maddow has the Army of God’s website up.
These people have a pantheon of “heroes” who have killed abortion providers and bombed clinics.
It’s exactly like an Al Qaeda website where the suicide bombers get everlasting fame and adoration.
I’m sorry you were not there for your Nathaniel, Hank. But it is not my fault.
“The FACT is that late term abortions are exceedingly rare. ”
AmWay…. Your confusion is showing… THAT is not from any of my posts!!! WAKE UP ID 10 T —
ANTI —
I made no threat against you… You just dont seem to know when to shut up!!
Be prepared for a knock on your door… Your “speech” here tells much about your inner character… It will be noticed by interested parties… if it hasnt been already…
Flame on!!
If you want to post suppositions as to me and my family, I will feel free to post what I have learned may or may not be true about yours.
___________________________
LOL!
What? Are you threatening to continue your lies about me?
Suppositions?
You use to be pro life. You now have a son as a result of unprotected casual sex with a woman that was dumb enough to have sex with you but too smart to marry you. (a rather small window of opportunity there)
So tell me, that’s either the truth, or you’ve lied again about your family.
I’m guessing as to your Nathaniel’s age here Hank.
I put him mid 30’s.
Did you have a choice on whether or not to abort him?
Apparently, his mother chose not to.
What was your vote?
Oh yeah, you voted with your feet.
Er…the fleet.
#
American_Way
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:29 pm | Permalink
“BlueJay Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:07 pm | Permalink
I don’t invite women home. Then they know where ya live.”
There you have it folks. To Bluejay woman are just an object to be used. Not even human. Not meant for relationships.
In other words, Bluejay restricts his sexual relationships to women he doesn’t know well enough to take home or know where he lives.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Didn’t you post just a bit upthread that you had engaged in the exact same behaviors that you now accuse Bluejay of during your first two tours in the USMC?
Better slow down on the rum and cokes, pard. You can’t seem to remember what you posted less than 45 minutes ago.
I’m sorry you were not there for your Nathaniel, Hank. But it is not my fault.
________________________________
Nothing to be sorry about, scooter. I was on a fast attack submarine. I was a submarine sailor when I married Nathan’s mother and I was on a fast attack submarine when she divorced me.
It was a rather amicable separation. I’ve always been there for my boy financially and otherwise. Cat in the Cradle? My boy and I are still close. I hope your Nathan and you have a relationship that is as close as we do.
Outie,
“That’s nice Jed. Thanks for sharing.”
You’re welcome! Thought you might’ve missed that little fact.
outlander,
I’ll just cut to the chase and ask the direct question since you seem to think that all Islamic terrorists are well-adjusted MENSA candidates.
Christian terrorist…possibility or impossibility?
I’m guessing as to your Nathaniel’s age here Hank.
________________________________________
Really? Guessing? Seems you guess about a lot of things, scooter. Your guesses are mostly wrong but they provide a window into your sick little being.
#
Regular
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:20 pm | Permalink
According to Wiki, in one year, 1,032 late term abortions were performed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Which year was that, Regular?
“As if that justifies killing them?
That’s called the “either – or” fallacy, Boxlock.”–Capn
Oh come on Capn….even I give you more credit than coming up with that crap Capn, wow that almost rimes.
That is exactly what it is, and just exactly what is worse than death?
With death there are absolutely NO choices, zero, zilch. Kind of like Dr. Tiller has now, wonder if he wishes he did?
At least with life there are some, maybe not the best, or what we in our limited vision would like, but at least choices and unforeseen possibilities.
“Nothing to be sorry about, scooter. ”
Are you sure? Then why the need to try and diminish me when we have been properly introduced?
The name is Jay and you know that.
I was a dad when my son’s mother chose not to be a mom.
You had your own priorities. Don’t blame me for that.
#
Daniel
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:23 pm | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted June 1, 2009 at 9:20 pm | Permalink
According to Wiki, in one year, 1,032 late term abortions were performed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Which year was that, Regular?
———————-
Appeared to be old data, 97 I think.
“Seems you guess about a lot of things”
My intel is better than yours. But I don’t post what I cannot confirm.
Tell ya what, scooter. You don’t mention me on the BLOG and I’ll quit mentioning you.
Wow, seems to me from reading some of these recent post you folks know way too much about one another’s personal lives.
Any wonder I think it insane to meet any of the posters on this or any blog?
This is cyberspace, it needs to be kept that way.
But I don’t post what I cannot confirm.
_____________________________
LOL
Pathological liar.
I DON’T mention you.
And that’s no deal. I’m not on the side of a murderer or trying to take anyone’s rights away.
Night all, hope we all sleep well, and with peaceful dreams.
God Bless Us All, even those I express detest for here, strictly in cyberspace.
“LOL
Pathological liar.”
Prove it.
Regular,
Thanks,I keep reading that late term abortions constitute less than 1 or 2 percent of abortions performed but there never seem to be any annual numbers mentioned.
You can call me names Hank. You’ve done so for 4 years.
What else ya got?
Interesting quote here:
“Operation Rescue condemned Tiller’s killing as vigilantism and “a cowardly act,” and the group’s president, Troy Newman, said Roeder “has never been a member, contributor or volunteer.”"
Now that I’ve seen him on television, I’m pretty sure I saw Roeder protesting at Dr. Tiller’s, and he seemed to be hanging with Troyboy’s bunch. Of course Troyboy he know nothin’!
#
Daniel
Posted June 1, 2009 at 10:38 pm | Permalink
Regular,
Thanks,I keep reading that late term abortions constitute less than 1 or 2 percent of abortions performed but there never seem to be any annual numbers mentioned.
———————–
Well, there Wiki stated the numbers were fuzzy because of the age determination wasn’t always clear.
I guess not all fetuses grow at the same rate. A 22 week old fetus might be more developed than a 28 week fetus on some occasions.
Not a Doctor, don’t know for sure the reason for the fuzzy numbers.
Hank,
“I was on a fast attack submarine. I was a submarine sailor when I married Nathan’s mother and I was on a fast attack submarine when she divorced me.”
So fathering Nathan must’ve been a fast attack too.
I may be mistaken, but wasn’t submarine duty strictly volunteer at that time? Sounds like you chose your own priorities regarding your marriage, and your son. A word of advice; be careful about turning your back on him- again.
Hank has a post where he says that women should be denied the right to vote.
I think I’ll go find that.
While he is looking for my “pathological lies”?
Ready, aim….
Reggie,
“I guess not all fetuses grow at the same rate. A 22 week old fetus might be more developed than a 28 week fetus on some occasions.”
Am I hearing you right? Are you saying that not all third-trimester abortions happen in the third trimester? I never realized there was such a thing as weasel arithmatic!
“I guess not all fetuses grow at the same rate. A 22 week old fetus might be more developed than a 28 week fetus on some occasions.”
I am not a physcian either, but I heard from a friend of mine who is the grandmother of a 28 week old pre-mature birth that Neo-natal intensive care units will not try to keep a premie alive if they were born at 22 weeks of gestation, or before. She got this info from the neonatal unit at Wesley Hospital.
Would this mean that regular the source of such good info, might be wrong? Surely not.
BTW, my friend is also an R.N.
Tiller completed thousands of abortions and broke the law by any standard of law or measurement. So Tiller was allowed to violate the law,Foulston and her office knowingly and with malice have completed unlawful acts under the color of law in the past and Sebellius suborned and supported criminal acts and conduct.
Now a criminal action has ended the life of Tiller and the perpetrator (now a criminal defendant) will be tried by actors from Foulston’s office who have unclean hands under the watchful eye of the always arrogant,tax evading,9/11 mocker Sebellius at HHS. Way too many crooks and criminals in this picture.
Parkay and his OR ilk would fit in nicely with Al Qaida. If there was ever any domestic terrorist, OR crowd is it.
This wasn’t about just killing one man…it was about the whole culture of terrorizing those of us who have a brain to keep abortion safe and accessible to women.
Yes, Operation Rescue is much like the 911 hijackers. While the hijackers wish to destroy our freedoms (and in some ways, succeeded)…the OR crowd wishes to destroy freedom.
Nutcase Joe. Tiller has been acquitted of every single charge ever brought against him. But nevermind the law matter to you.
Oh brother.
Only PeeMom (and those of similar ilk) would draw that conclusion.
There are reasons why some fetuses do not thrive in the womb and may be only developed to a certain age.
The little baby I knew that was tortured to be kept alive before dying was 4 weeks developmentally younger than its true gestational age.
Yo, golf balls, why dont you go find yourself a TEE party…I hear they got places where you can stroke your balls at night now… lit up driving ranges even… LOL
A story about Kansas –
For the first time in eight weeks, a doctor was honest with us, and although it was her honesty that I hated, I was overcome with immense sadness. Late termination – how could I terminate my son?
Return To AHC Home Page
Referrals, Delays, and Late Termination
Diagnosis: Posterior Urethral Valves
A Kansas Story
Nathan Jack’s Mom
When we found out that we were pregnant with our second child, life could not get any better. Our daughter was just 15 months old; how perfect that the kids were going to be less than 2 years apart in age. Our family was growing and so was our love.
At our 19-week ultrasound that we found out not only that we were having a boy, but that one of his ureters, his bladder and stomach were all slightly dilated. The technician couldn’t give us this information, so when we met with our doctor, she casually reported the findings. She assured us that in all her years of practicing, she saw this very often in boys, but only twice did it have to be followed after birth. We were advised to return a week later for better pictures of the heart. During that second ultrasound, it appeared that the dilation had increased; again, no cause for alarm. It was later that day that the doctor called us at home to suggest that we go for a Level II ultrasound at an imaging center “just to make sure everything was ok.“
Two weeks had gone by and although we were concerned, there was no diagnosis or cause for alarm. The baby was extremely active and growing beautifully. The following week when I went for my Level II ultrasound, the technician spent 2 hours taking pictures, focusing on the collecting system, but again, sat stoically and continued to tell us all of the things that were perfect with our son. When the doctor finally met with us, he advised us that the bladder was unusually large, indicating a blockage in a ureter, but his kidneys looked perfect. He mentioned a conditioned found solely in boys called posterior urethral valves (PUV). He also advised us not to read information posted on the Internet because we’d drive ourselves crazy and worry ourselves for no reason. He, too, advised us to return to his center in 2 weeks to meet with yet another doctor. In hindsight, we should have realized that there was something seriously wrong since each doctor referred to someone more knowledgeable.
2 weeks later, we returned to the Imaging Center for yet another follow-up. After hearing how great his heart looked, this doctor advised us that we should see specialists in the top hospital in New York City to determine a possible diagnosis.
That night my husband, daughter and I drove into Brooklyn to see the top pediatric urologist in the country. Again, everything looked fine, but we were told to come to the hospital in a few days so his team could look at our fetus.
This went on for three more weeks, and six more visits to NYC. It was a Tuesday when we finally met with the Director of OB and she informed us that our son was very sick, and although she offered fetal procedures to increase his chances of survival, she also informed us that PUV is often detected early in the pregnancy and most mothers choose to terminate because of the many, severe complications. But at 27 weeks gestation, termination was no longer an option in New York State.
For the first time in eight weeks, a doctor was honest with us, and although it was her honesty that I hated, I was overcome with immense sadness. Late termination- how could I terminate my son? If we could hold on just 13 more weeks, then we’d have him to the best doctors, and they’d “fix” him and he’d be well.
The doctor mentioned a doctor in Kansas that, based upon this medical situation, could perform a late termination. The idea was so surreal- going to Kansas to terminate my son; he was supposed to be born to me and complete my family. After weeks of not knowing the prognosis, but gradually learning that this baby was so very sick, it didn’t take us very long to realize that traveling to Kansas to have this procedure done was saving our son from a brief life of respirators, dialysis, surgeries and pain.
When we arrived at the Women’s Health Center, we immediately felt the compassion and understanding from the entire staff. We had a story, and they listened. The doctor instantly connected with us and assured us that although our decision was a difficult one, he knew how sick our son was and that the choice we made was because we love him so much and couldn’t bear to put him through a short life full of pain and suffering.
The week we spent in Kansas was one of the toughest weeks of my life, one that I will never forget, nor will I choose to forget, but through my tears of sadness, love helped us through.
We returned home just two days ago, and the pain is ever so fresh, and the memories vivid. A piece of me doesn’t want the pain to ever go away because it is one way for me to stay connected to my son. My beautiful, angelic son, Nathan Jack. Seeing him was one of the hardest things I have ever done, not being able to watch him grow up, or call me “Mommy” is something I will always grieve over, but knowing that we protected and saved him from an existence of hospital stays was our responsibility as loving parents.
We are forever grateful to the Women’s Health Center, the amazing doctor and all staff for being our heaven when we were living in hell.
P-Mom,
“Parkay and his OR ilk would fit in nicely with Al Qaida.”
Nope, he wouldn’t. Bin Ladin has the balls to admit to his terrorism, even to brag about it; Troyboy doesn’t, pure wimp that he is.
#
StevenEDavis
Posted June 1, 2009 at 11:09 pm | Permalink
“I guess not all fetuses grow at the same rate. A 22 week old fetus might be more developed than a 28 week fetus on some occasions.”
I am not a physcian either, but I heard from a friend of mine who is the grandmother of a 28 week old pre-mature birth that Neo-natal intensive care units will not try to keep a premie alive if they were born at 22 weeks of gestation, or before. She got this info from the neonatal unit at Wesley Hospital.
Would this mean that regular the source of such good info, might be wrong? Surely not.
———————————-
I made no conclusions to be interpreted as being wrong. I stated I wasn’t a Doctor and didn’t know the reason.
Nitwit
I appreciate you posting stories like that MH. If only the antis would be honest about abortion instead of lying…but I guess honesty kindof ruins their message.
And that entire story could simply be replaced with a 5 year old child and some other medical problem.
Do you support allowing mothers to kill their 5 year olds to:
Protect and save them from an existence of hospital stays as it is their responsibility as loving parents?
Well political mom is name calling again. Too bad about Pilshaw,and Ware out on the street looking for work,I guess even SG county can only bare so much corruption.
The ties between Tiller,Foulston,and Sebellius go way back. There were senators who had lots of questions about Sebellius and these matters. BTW,if you are on this blog and don’t pay your taxes you will probably go to jail…not be elected Governor of Kansas,then again maybe not!
The Virgin Prophet “Nathaniel” declares –
“…that entire story could simply be replaced….”
Yeah, boy.
We all look to you for expertise on parenthood.
Nathan,
You have so far failed to reproduce (something that yet gives me hope for the world). You certainly haven’t dealt with the problems that can face parents. Please don’t go making moral judgements on problems so outside your realm of experience.
You haven’t had to see your child suffer horribly and be told that it’s long and inevitably fatal, and there’s nothing to be done but wait for the end.
You haven’t been told that your wife or lover has severe eclampsia and the only way to save her is to have an immediate abortion.
You haven’t been told that your child has Down’s, and its many complications that will cost you more money than you will ever earn in your life, and will at best only survive a few years of misery, while taking away any possibility of a future for your other two kids.
You haven’t got a clue how you would react in a situation so far removed fron life in a basement with daddy, or teaching people how to kill. I hope you never have to. Both for your and your family’s sake, I hope such decisions never come your way, as the do to the lives of many parents. You are sigularly unprepared for life in the real world.
“Jed” –
He’d have to meet a girl first.
The fact remains, the overwhelming number of abortions are ‘convenience abortions’ killing normal, healthy developing babies.
Boxy, tell me a medical procedure that isn’t done for convenience. Someone has a clogged artery and gets surgery done to clear it up to prevent future heart attacks. Convenient for them, now they don’t have to worry so much about heart attacks.
Never mind, you’re an idiot.
Monk,
““Jed” –
He’d have to meet a girl first.”
Yeah, and then figure out what to do with her- christian sex-ed, y’know!
“Do you support allowing mothers to kill their 5 year olds?”
Please write some more absurd things…
The overwhelming number of abortions are ‘convenience abortions’
Source for this data?
Convenience argument proved a falsehood.
METHODS: In 2004, a structured survey was completed by 1,209 abortion patients at 11 large providers, and in-depth interviews were conducted with 38 women at four sites. Bivariate analyses examined differences in the reasons for abortion across subgroups, and multivariate logistic regression models assessed associations between respondent characteristics and reported reasons.
RESULTS: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents’ or partners’ desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.
CONCLUSIONS: The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.html
Looks to me David, like the convenience argument is proved absolutely true.
Sad.
Let’s recap some of duh Leftist Libs comments, shall we?
Chas Posted June 2, 2009 at 11:54 am
Granny, I KNOW where you live.. I know the car you drive.. I know where your business
…I have pipe bombs in my trunk…
CapnAmerica
Posted June 2, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I hope Mrs. Tiller and family sue O’Reilly for everything he’s got.
bth Posted June 2, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Maybe we should waterboard BillO a few hundred times and see what he tells us.
BlueJay
Posted May 31, 2009 at 12:01 pm
The fundamentalist Christian community is the enemy of freedom loving Americans. They must be treated as enemies.
XXX Posted May 31, 2009 at 12:46 pm
The right owns this one. Be prepared for the results.
Chas Posted May 31, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I do hope that none of the CONS show up at the Vigil later on tonight… and start spewing their typical Pro-life vitriol… That could get very ugly…
(chortles)
Let’s discuss inconvenience when you’re knocked up, okay?
This is not intended to be disrespectful to another poster who has shared alot of her personal story here today, but what is more inconvient? Carrying a child to term and giving it away to lead a happy and hopefully healthy life or dealing with years of anguish that follow a difficult decision?
Another story from Kansas –
Everyone Needs a Little Help
By Anonymous
Everyone needs a little help. That is what I remember the doctor in Wichita, Kansas telling me.
The end of August, beginning of September 2004 my husband and I got the news that we were expecting our second, due to arrive April 30, 2005. All was going well throughout the pregnancy. My husband had found out the sex but at the urging of a friend I had chosen not to find out. I wanted a surprise in the delivery room.
We were excited to be having, our second child, a sibling for our three-year-old. Although we were content with one child, two would complete our family. We painted the baby’s room, put in new carpeting and got all the baby stuff from the attic to wash and clean.
On March 24th, 2005, the Thursday before Easter, I went to the OB/GYN for my regular appointment. I knew an ultrasound would be done, I had asked my mom to come to the appointment with my daughter and me. During the ultrasound, the midwife noted a second fluid sac in the baby’s lower abdomen. She was unsure of what it was. Noting the concern on my face, she recommended I go for a second level ultrasound.
The next Wednesday I went back to the midwife after work, hoping another ultrasound would be done and that the second fluid sac would be gone. The midwife listened to the baby’s heart. It sounded strong, but she noticed a skipped beat. She said it sounded like a little arrhythmia and that can be common in the last trimester. She did an NST and ultrasound. The second fluid sac was still present in the lower abdomen; the heart arrhythmia could be heard on the NST but not clearly seen on the ultrasound in the office. Knowing I was going for the second level ultrasound the next day, the midwife said she would call and have them look at the heart to see if everything was okay.
The next day at the level-two sonogram they noted that I was at 34 weeks 5 day, measured everything and said all appeared to look good. They really focused on the heart, enlarging the image on the screen, explaining as they scanned each picture and diced through it. However, they didn’t really say very much about what they saw.
Next, they moved to the lower abdomen area. The second fluid sac was very evident on the screen. I could feel the uneasiness in the room. Our world fell out from under us as “Down syndrome” came out of the technician’s mouth. I felt the wind knocked out of me and began sobbing into my husband. He stood there trying to be so strong, absorbing it all and trying to make sense of it.
The technician left us to give us some time to digest the news, then returned with the doctor. The doctor scanned and rescanned, explaining the findings to us. The lower abdomen appeared to have duodenal artesia (or double bubble) and the heart had an endocardial cushion defect (hole between the right side and the left side). Trying to give us some hope, he said both were operable after the baby was born, but there were no guarantees. However, the findings lead to a possibility of a chromosome abnormality, and he recommended an amnio. Wanting to have the cards laid out before us, we agreed to return the next day to have the amnio. That night, we shut and locked the door to the completed nursery.
We returned for the amnio Friday morning. The doctor we’d had the night before met with us again. He explained that the sonogram was reviewed that morning by pediatric cardiologists, experts in this field. Their assessment of the heart defect went from bad to worse: they diagnosed hypoplastic left ventricle (underdevelopment of the left side of the heart) repairable only with a complete heart transplant and/or three open heart surgical procedures. We went ahead with the amnio, but knew in our hearts it was going to come back positive for Down syndrome.
We met and discussed all of the options from surgery, adoption, to comfort care to termination. However, because I was 34 weeks and 5 days pregnant, no termination could be done within our state. There was the possibility of being referred to Kansas.
The doctors said if the amnio revealed Down syndrome, the likelihood of surviving surgery would be minimal to none, and without surgery the baby had 100% chance of fatality. However, not one doctor would promise us that if we opted not to have surgery and let nature take its course, that our wishes would be abided by. This was disturbing to us. Nor did they tell us that Down syndrome babies don’t get heart transplants. If the doctors felt they could give the baby a quality of life, they would take matters into their hands even without our consent.
Following the amnio, we met with our regular OB/GYN and discussed our options. Adoption: How could we do that and always wonder “did our child make it? Was our child well-cared for?” Surgery: Facing a heart transplant or three-open heart surgeries with a transplant down the road. Yet with a child with Down syndrome, how would this be a quality of life? Life is hard enough for them. We considered the effects on our family and our three-year-old. Comfort care: We could not get a straight answer that our wishes would be abided by. Termination: How could we, this far along? But this option was the only choice in which we would have a say.
After our meeting with our regular OBGYN, he contacted a doctor in Kansas doctor who would agree to termination based on the baby’s fatal condition. That Friday afternoon, we made the hardest decision of our lives as individuals and as a married couple. We would leave on Monday to start our termination on Tuesday. We cried all weekend, overwhelmed by a flood of emotions. Monday morning our OB/GYN called to tell us the first part of our amnio came back positive for trisomy 21: Down syndrome.
Scared, we drove into the fenced in center where we were greeted by a smiling, friendly security guard. He informed us that everyday the protesters are there and said to just ignore them. A warm man, he explained he had to search our belongings. We went through a metal detector and he unlocked the door for us to proceed inside. We signed in and were led through another secured door to a waiting room/reception area.
With clip board in hand, a center worker sat us down and explained the paperwork to be completed and that we would be in our own program with five other couples in need of help. One by one the other couples came in, strangers with whom we would gradually develop a bond, drawing strength from one another. There was an awkward silence across the room. We watch an introduction video had some group discussion with the doctor and his associate. They explained the reason they do what they do: everybody needs a little help.
The procedure was explained and gotten underway that morning. I knew in my head I was doing the right thing, but still my heart did not understand.
The process would be a light, twilight anesthesia for the patient; an injection into the baby to slow the heart until it stopped so that the baby would not feel any pain; the insertion of laminaria to open the cervix over the next few days; and then finally, delivery of the baby. Delivery would depend on your body, as labor and delivery are simply not something you rush. For me, being at 36 weeks when I got to the center and farthest along of everyone in our group, the insertion of the laminaria Tuesday morning sent me into contractions by Wednesday morning.
When I returned on Wednesday and was examined, I was already starting to dilate and the doctor told my husband today would be the day. It was almost a relief to know I would not have to wait until the end of the week and my grieving road to recovery could begin.
The following delivery decisions needed to be made: Did we want to view the baby or hold him or her? Did we want photos, footprints and handprints? Did we want our child’s receiving blanket? Baptism? Cremation? Funeral? Did we want to name the baby? We discussed each question and how we felt about each decision we were making. In the end, these are the decisions that we must live with, the choices we are making and the choices for our baby.
At 2:10 p.m. April 6, 2005 our son, Joseph, came and went in an instant, taking with him a lifetime of hopes and dreams we had for him. He was born silently and not suffering from his broke heart and abdomen with complications of Down syndrome. We can only describe our feelings as being peaceful, knowing that love was all our baby ever knew.
Our hearts ache with sadness and no words can describe how much we miss him and how deeply we love him. He will always be close to our hearts, mind, body and soul. And if it was not for the Kansas doctor, giving us a little help, we are not sure what we would be writing … Death and life are the same mysteries.
So, what is so wrong, about Obama’s stance on abortion. His stance, which he basically explained, during his Notre Dame trip. Is Pro-Choice, but to reduce the need for the number of abortions. Ultimately, it should be a choice based on individual circumstances, not a one sided, all or nothing Law that treats everybody and their situation the same. His priority is on the abortion issue, is to reduce the need for abortion. Reducing teen pregnancies, opting out for adoption are among of the few solutions to reducing the need for abortion. I’m in agreeing that abortion should be a last resort, but it would be ignorant to outlaw it. There are some scenarios, situations, and rarities, that make abortion an option that would work out for the better of all parties. Some people who are Pro-Life might not ever understand that, unless they ended up in a situation where Abortion presented itself as one of the best options. I’m not going to argue with someones opinionated beliefs based on their religious system. I have no problem with religion, in fact I think religion is good. The only time I have an issue with religion, is based upon individual people, who look to religion to give them black and white answers based on their life. When you fail to use your brain, logic, and critical thinking skills to solve your own life’s problems, and look to religion, or the Bible for black and white, right and wrong answers, then you have failed in using Religion as a guide in your life, and you have succeeded in using religion as a crutch. When you fail to empathize with others and try to see other people’s views, or fail at trying to imagine what it’s like to be in somebody else s shoes, because you have wrongly interrupted your religion, to group people as being Saved, or condemned Sinners, then you have failed God and your religion. Because Christianity isn’t about that. It isn’t about memorizing Bible verses. It’s about modeling your life after the teachings of Jesus who died a martyr on the cross, to wash away ever bodies debts and sins. Whether it’s true or not, dosen’t really matter, the teachings of love, understanding, and compassion are very good virtues that everybody should follow. And using religion as a crutch instead of a guide, should be a pretty big sin, on of itself.