Suspect Scott Roeder sure has a lot to say for himself, as if allegedly shooting George Tiller to death weren’t enough of a statement. Roeder, once associated with an anti-government group that objected to obeying laws and paying taxes, has contacted Associated Press multiple times from the Sedgwick County Jail to warn of additional threats, fret about his family and complain about “deplorable conditions” in jail. As one Eagle reader said in an e-mail: “It’s a bit ironic that Roeder, who denied the state’s authority and its taxing power, has a sense of entitlement that demands services from government despite his unwillingness to contribute to the commonweal.” Still, Sedgwick County Sheriff Robert Hinshaw and other authorities obviously need to ensure that Roeder’s treatment is by the book.
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138 Comments
LOL I am not advocating committing crime but if he think the new jail conditions are deplorable.
They are like a five star hotel compared to the old jail I worked in. All they need is the potted plants in the dayroom in the new jail! He is possibly in segregation for his own protection that way they can watch him for suicide attempts. If not to protect him from the other inmates, who knows?
hmmm…being anti-government and then bristling over the experience of government incarceration and treatment is not ironic at all.
It’s like a terrorist who hates America and commits a heinous crime, gets caught, and then laments the experience of being in an American jail cell and then excuses those conditions as justification for his hatred of America.
Irony? No.
However, Maybe he should have taken a tour of the County Jail to check out the accomodations before making the trip to Tiller’s church.
What was he expecting?
I suppose it could be disconcerting to be watched while pooping
I was wondering if we were going to have another Tiller Killer thread today.
amway – TillerKiller??? Aren’t you judging Roeder before his trial? Don’t you believe in the constitutional right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty?
What are you, one of those anti-contitution rabble rouser? Dare I say, liberal?
CONs are desperately trying to flog the Lone Nut theory with the Tiller assassination. And the folks at Operation Rescue are burning out paper shredders like rabid beavers in a balsa wood forest.
Why aren’t those who believe in torture demanding this clown be put on the waterboard like the terrorist that he is?? I guess you have to be a muslim?
Remember, Obama wants prison reform. We need to be kinder and gentler. We need to educate inmates so they are better able to rejoin society.
No more making little rocks out of big rocks.
Note to self: Reminder to report totoinks to the editor for calling me the worst possible cuss word in the English language. Banishment. At the very least make sure he lands on one of my hotels on Boardwalk.
“American_Way” comes up with –
“…Obama wants prison reform.”
What orifice did you pull that out of?
Roeder as much as said that there are other planned assaults in the pipeline so he probably has invaluable information to share. Personally, I hope he gets the phychiatric treatment he so obviously needs, sees whoever used him with for what they really are, and spills his guts!
Look it up Monkeyhawk. You are real good at calling names and insulting.
Maybe it’s time you expanded your horizon.
And how stupid do you think I am? You insult me and then want something from me?
Even you should know better than that.
Toto,
Yeah, Amway’s a latent liberal. I want to be around when he finally steps out of the closet.
jrodoc64,
Maybe you write Obama a letter and ask that he allow torture of US citizens if you think it will protect lives.
“Roeder as much as said that there are other planned assaults in the pipeline so he probably has invaluable information to share. Personally, I hope he gets the phychiatric treatment he so obviously needs, sees whoever used him with for what they really are, and spills his guts!”
Hey, if there is such a movement, go for it! PRove it one way or the other! Otherwise, it’s just speculation. Oh, by the way, there is a muslim conspiracy to kill Americans. Let’s hope they get ththe same!!
amway – TillerKiller??? Aren’t you judging Roeder before his trial? Don’t you believe in the constitutional right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty?
_______________________________________
The “presumed innocent” is for the courts.
We are not under that obligation.
“American_Way” squirms –
“Look it up Monkeyhawk. You are real good at calling names and insulting.”
What names have I called you, “American_Way?”
Be specific.
“And how stupid do you think I am?”
Heh-heh.
Don’t ask questions you don’t want answers to.
Roeder, once associated with an anti-government group that objected to obeying laws and paying taxes
=================================
It would be ironic if they forced him to make licence plates.
Jed
Posted June 8, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
Roeder as much as said that there are other planned assaults in the pipeline so he probably has invaluable information to share.
thank you Mr. Gullible.
Furthermore, it is impossible for a murderer to lie. It has been proven that they have a strong set of moral values and believe that it is wrong.
Anti,
Yeah, Ironic, but won’t happen. Kansas license plates aren’t made by prisoners- they are made here in Wichita by a corp. that specializes in hiring people with disabilities.
Anti,
Yeah, Ironic, but won’t happen.
===================================
I know, but I can dream can’t I?
Ruffles,
Face it- your Mr. Roeder is much too mentally ill/disorganized/stupid/broke to have carried out his assassination scheme all by himself. He had help and financing, and an investigation will find it. Interesting how every pro-life org has been backing away from him at high speed. Doeth they protest too much?
Sounds like Mr. Roeder isn’t enjoying martyrdom!
And he’s got a good l o o o o n g time of that ahead of him.
I bet he starts singing. And I don’t mean “Jailhouse Rock”.
ANTI
Posted June 8, 2009 at 2:41 pm | Permalink
It would be ironic if they forced him to make licence plates.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Especially considering that when he was pulled over and found to have bomb making components in his trunk in 1996 he had a homemade tag on his car.
“He also had a homemade license plate on his car proclaiming he was immune from Kansas law – a type of tag that’s been associated with the Freemen organization, which rejects the authority of the US government.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0602/p02s01-usgn.html
I wonder if the ACLU would step in to help Roeder and his oppressive conditions?
(chortles)
Mr. Roeder is much too mentally ill/disorganized/stupid/broke to have carried out his assassination scheme all by himself.
1) Hop in car
2) Drive to church
3) Go inside church
4) Find target
5) Pull trigger
Yeah, must have been years of planning ::eye roll ::
He had help and financing, and an investigation will find it.
Sounds a lot like the torture issue in Congress. How’s that working out for you people by the way?
Interesting how every pro-life org has been backing away from him at high speed.
Wouldn’t the “pro-life” term be your first clue? He is apparently a murder.
Blue,
I get the feeling that Roeder didn’t really expect to survive his act, and certainly didn’t expect to end up in jail for the rest of his life. He needs to be kept in protective custody to ensure a nice long life in which to contemplate his existence.
Wonder he’s not doing like the 9/11 terrorist and freely admitting guilt, asking for the death penalty to obtain true martyrdom.
Jed,
Does you routinely assign credibility to mentally ill and stupid people? If Roeder is so mentally ill and stupid, why do you believe him when he says that there are other attacks planned?
By believing him, you can not then claim that he is too mentally ill or too stupid to plan the murder of Tiller.
Do you….
Sol,
Eyewitnesses placed him in the church on several occasions over the last month. Interesting someone with his limited means could afford those trips.
Also, this was a guy who when approached by clinic workers and escorts would bust out in screaming fits. He obviously wasn’t emotionally capable of making such calculated plans by himself.
“I get the feeling that Roeder didn’t really expect to survive his act, ”
Really?
I don’t get that impression myself.
We don’t know everything yet. And Nola Foulston will probably play info on the case very close so as to mitigate any play toward moving the venue.
He had apparently checked out the church before. He leisurely drove down and at least seems to have been heading home.
So far as we know.
I think he was so self assured by the association with his fellow travelers that he somehow thought he was gonna get away with this. I don’t think he figured on death at all.
There’s no way only one shooter killed Tiller.
There was smoke behind the Grassy Knoll, and nobody followed up on that lead.
I’m so happy there is another Killer Tiller Topic today.
:)
#
JimJohnson
Posted June 8, 2009 at 3:23 pm | Permalink
There’s no way only one shooter killed Tiller.
There was smoke behind the Grassy Knoll, and nobody followed up on that lead.
————————–
Yes, there needs to be a commission immediately to solve this mystery. Should cost only a few hundred million.
Eyewitnesses placed him in the church on several occasions over the last month.
He obviously wasn’t emotionally capable of making such calculated plans by himself.
Sounds like he made several “dry runs” all by his lonesome.
- they are made here in Wichita by a corp. that specializes in hiring people with disabilities.
============================================
Jed,
Is that what they do at Starkey?
Ruffles,
I assume that he’s so mentally disorganized that he won’t be able to sustain a lie for very long under sustained questioning. I doubt that he was ever told any more than generalities about future attacks, but he very well may be able to name those who groomed him to be the christian version of a suicide bomber, and they may lead to more connections.
self assured by the association with his fellow travelers
Do tell, who else was in his vehicle?
People who think like him solie?
You know, like Cheryl Sullenger, whose name and phone number were on his dashboard?
You know, like Cheryl Sullenger, whose name and phone number were on his dashboard?
==========================================
I heard they also found a coupon to Papa John’s for a free medium pizza.
self assured by the association with his fellow travelers
People who think like him solie?
Really? They were in his vehicle? Sounds like a strong case then.
I heard they also found a coupon to Papa John’s for a free medium pizza.
String that baaastahd UP!!!
#
ANTI
Posted June 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm | Permalink
You know, like Cheryl Sullenger, whose name and phone number were on his dashboard?
==========================================
I heard they also found a coupon to Papa John’s for a free medium pizza.
——————
Always knew there was something snakey about organization.
Scott Roeder was a hypocrite, a coward, and nothing close to insane.
He walked up to his sworn enemy, someone whom he felt morally superior to, shot the man in the face, and hightailed it like a scalded rabbit with the phone number of his support-system contact on the dashboard of his car.
He obviously knew right from wrong because he skeedaddled away from the crime scene and didn’t step into the church sanctuary and preach the right-ness of his actions.
Now there’s a martyr for ya.
The Feds’ investigation is underway. There’s gonna be evidence come to light one way or another. And even as Phill (the second L is for “Lepus”) Kline drums up attorney money from the faithful while dancing on Doctor Tiller’s grave, the entire underground railroad of Advocates of Illegal Abortion are seeing their structure which supported Shelly Shannon, Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder, et al… are seeing their murderous conspiracy come under judicial scrutiny and they’re wearing brown underwear.
“ANTI,” who (admirably) is looking for a job, asks –
“Is that what they do at Starkey?”
Don’t aim too high, “ANTI.”
They’ll start you out on decal-stacking.
Don’t aim too high, “ANTI.”
They’ll start you out on decal-stacking.
=======================================
SWEET!!
Monkeyhawk
Posted June 8, 2009 at 3:39 pm | Permalink
Scott Roeder was a hypocrite, a coward, and nothing close to insane.
________________
Talk about insane. Monkey gives us an example with every post.
Where did you start at Starkey. Monkeyhawk?
Anti,
“Is that what they do at Starkey?”
No, it’s called Center Industries Corp. here in Wichita. What relationship they may have with Starkey or any other organizations I have no idea, but links between such groups isn’t uncommon.
Thanks Jed.
Monk,
Whether Roeder was legally insane is a matter for the courts, but we escorts knew him as “Prom Queen” because of the bouquet he always carried and his obvious mental instability.
I’m not at all surprised by him being caught with convicted clinic bomber Cheryl Sullinger’s phone number as he hung out with Troy Newman’s stable of protesters that includes Cheryl and her daughter Brenna. Whether or not they were specifically involved in the plot, they sure offered him motivation and propaganda that aided him in making his decision. Personally, I don’t think Troyboy would want his mealticket shot at this point in the economy. Cheryl might.
Jed,
I assume that the facts of this case are as they are.
Let’s just say that Roeder is released as a free man tomorrow, is there any doubt that his safety would be in jeapordy? Would that mean that those who condemn Tiller’s murder would justify Roeder’s hypothetical murder?
The same is true for abortion doctors and their safety in a society with freedom of speech. Just as everyone wants to know the truth about what happened to Tiller, the people deserve to know about what happens during an abortion. The consequences of this knowledge in a society that protects freedom of speech is not always favorable for the abortion doctor or the abortion doctor murderer. Speaking out about abortion is yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there actually is a fire. There is intense rhetoric against partial-birth abortion because it really is the stopping of a human heartbeat.
The truth that moral laws are being broken (such as stopping a human heartbeat) has a chilling affect on people who, whether it is knowledge of Roeder killing Tiller or Tiller killing unborn children, want to see justice.
There will always be a segment of our society who will wrongfully choose to take justice out in their own hands because of their own personal desire to lend themselves a feeling of self worth for bringing justice where justice is due.
The only cure is to either eliminate free speech, or to eliminate un-just laws.
NARAL wants to curtail free speech regarding abortion, Pro-Life groups obviously want to eliminate the unjust law of a legal abortion.
Obviously it is clearly un-American for NARAL to get it’s wish.
If every law is as unjust as the right to an abortion, then perhaps it may be necessary to tamp down on freedom of speech to guarantee law and order. But then all the laws would be unjust with no freedom to speak out against them.
Therefore, freedom of speech must always be protected to rectify unjust laws through influencing the hearts and minds of the people who are all susceptible to moral absolutes such as the right to life.
“You insult me and then want something from me?”–Am_Way
But isn’t that typical of a liberal socialist.
“Sounds like Mr. Roeder isn’t enjoying martyrdom!
And he’s got a good l o o o o n g time of that ahead of him.”—BlowJ
So does George Tiller.
Ruffles,
If Roeder were released tomorrow, I’d bet he’d be in more danger from his friends than from us. I want to see the case solved and as many violent fundies locked up as possible. That won’t happen as easily if Roeder’s dead.
As for your moralizing- anything, even morality becomes absurd (and dangerous) when taken to the extremes some of your crowd takes it.
Well soon we’ll know who he called, who he met with, spoke with, lots of good info! Even those shredders won’t be able to destroy phone records. I read where the turnpike camera footage has been acquired. Wonder if they can find someone else in Roeder’s car on one of the ’scouting’ trips, or were they made in another car and it will be him as the passenger? I’m sure they have a list of cars to be looking at.
It’s a bit ironic that all the groups who would have celebrated and rejoiced if Tiller’s death had come of natural causes have to do their celebrating in a quiet way. None but the Westboro Church could even demonstrate at the funeral because of the fear of being tied to the murderer. Made the day easier for the family — that’s good!
“could even demonstrate at the funeral because of the fear of being tied to the murderer”
In your deranged mind can you picture the fact that no one else cared? I swear you old ladies have vivid
imaginations.
“I swear you old ladies have vivid
imaginations.”
With a little practice you could be really useful to your party in further alienating women. Maybe if you listen more closely to Newt and Rush you could pick up some more pointers?
““Sounds like Mr. Roeder isn’t enjoying martyrdom!
And he’s got a good l o o o o n g time of that ahead of him.”—BlowJ
So does George Tiller.”
I wonder how well “Boxlock20″ knew Mr. Roeder?
The National Criminal Justice Commission Act of 2009 that I introduced in the Senate on March 26, 2009 will create a blue-ribbon commission to look at every aspect of our criminal justice system with an eye toward reshaping the process from top to bottom. I believe that it is time to bring together the best minds in America to confer, report, and make concrete recommendations about how we can reform the process.
Why We Urgently Need this Legislation:
With 5% of the world’s population, our country now houses 25% of the world’s reported prisoners.
Incarcerated drug offenders have soared 1200% since 1980.
Four times as many mentally ill people are in prisons than in mental health hospitals.
Approximately 1 million gang members reside in the U.S., many of them foreign-based; and Mexican cartels operate in 230+ communities across the country.
Post-incarceration re-entry programs are haphazard and often nonexistent, undermining public safety and making it extremely difficult for ex-offenders to become full, contributing members of society.
America’s criminal justice system has deteriorated to the point that it is a national disgrace. Its irregularities and inequities cut against the notion that we are a society founded on fundamental fairness. Our failure to address this problem has caused the nation’s prisons to burst their seams with massive overcrowding, even as our neighborhoods have become more dangerous. We are wasting billions of dollars and diminishing millions of lives.
We need to fix the system. Doing so will require a major nationwide recalculation of who goes to prison and for how long and of how we address the long-term consequences of incarceration.
Jim Webb democrat
O.K. Linda prove me wrong.
Please provide any factual information to support your outrageous statement.
I’m giving you 15 minutes. It should already be at your fingertips, since you posted it already.
Name one other group that didn’t protest at the killer tiller funeral?
Provide a source that proves they did NOT protest out of fear of being charged with the murder.
That’s what you posted.
Now prove it and I will remove you from the deranged old lady list.
Tick-tock.
“None but the Westboro Church could even demonstrate at the funeral because of the fear of being tied to the murderer.”
lindainks65 support your post. 14 minutes.
Prison Reform For Justice
By Michael Santos · Wednesday, April 29th, 2009
Recently I contributed an article for the readers of change.org that describes the absurdity of using the amount of time spent in prison as the primary gauge of justice. We need prison reforms that will encourage more offenders to work toward reconciling with society. That type of prison adjustment would yield far more in the way of justice, as I understand the term.
I felt inspired to write that article after I received a message from a professor who used to work as a a warden. The professor endeavored to pay me a compliment, I think, by saying that release from prison should have come for me at the 20-year mark. That statement seemed so absurd to me. I didn’t understand why the concept of 20 years in prison had such significance.
Recidivism rate statistics in our country show some troubling trends. As Congress stated through its Second Chance Act, two out of every three prisoners who serve time return to confinement after release. These failure rates do not convince me that society is using its criminal justice system effectively. The costs to taxpayers for such a failing public policy of isolating and punishing approach $60 billion each year. Where is the justice?
Justice, to me, would advance if society were to operate a prison system that helped more people emerge as contributing citizens. Requiring people to live in cages for years or decades at a time does not condition them for the challenges they will face upon release.
Society could change the dismal statistics by incorporating the concept of earning freedom that former Chief Justice Warren Burger wrote about in Factories With Fences. By encouraging people to earn freedom, society would reap far more benefit than warehousing offenders for lengthy sentences.
http://prisonnewsblog.com/2009/04/prison-reform-for-justice/
Prison reform = change
Tick Tock old lady Linda
alienating women Linda?
I am alienating old busybodies like you who post outrageous things with no basis in fact.
Lindalinks you are posting trash. The same trash you rail against. You are stereotyping and making things up to further whatever cause you support.
Prove you do not have a vivid imagination. Prove you are a rational thinking human being.
It’s a job that has to be performed. Nothing personal.
Maybe I shouldn’t pick on Lindalinks?
Why because she is an old lady?
Now why wouldn’t we treat all posters the same?
Why cut someone a husk? The standard is the same for all of us regardless of race, gender, age, creed, or political party.
Tick tock.
American_Way,
Don’t hold your breath. She will probably come back with her typical line of: Everyone is entitled to their opinion…
That is her answer whenever she says something she can’t prove or back up or make a decent argument for.
“Maybe I shouldn’t pick on Lindalinks?”
Pretty good idea.
‘Cause if you do, you’ll go through me.
Let me understand what you are trying to claim here.
You maintain that so called “pro life” groups DID demonstrate at the funeral? They had the nerve to protest the funeral of a man they helped with their rhetoric to get killed?
“‘Cause if you do, you’ll go through me.”
That shouldn’t be too difficult. Linda can dish it out on the blog – but is not big enough of a person to stand for HER OWN remarks?
I think she needs to find a new roost. If she is an elderly “baby” and cannot stand up for her remarks, perhaps she belongs on a poem writing blog.
Bluejay you abuse women for sex, refuse to let them know where you live, refuse to teach your own son about sex – and make it dirty.
And now you are the knight in shining armor? Please.
This is between Linda and me. If she cannot stand on her own two feet – she deserves everything she gets and worse.
And Linda talks about “cons” and christians being?
She is just as bad as anyone else. Big surprise.
American_Way,
“She is just as bad as anyone else.”
You are just figuring this out now?
Almost two thirds of the prisoners released each year in our country are arrested again within three years. It is in everyone’s best interest to rehabilitate those serving time in our prisons, but our criminal justice system fails to prepare them for their return to society. In fact, our prisons are more likely to produce hardened criminals. Obama plans to create a prison-to-work incentive program, which is a good start to solving this serious problem. This group is for those who support criminal justice system reform, including the programs Obama will work to implement as president.
http://as.barackobama.com/page/group/AmericansforPrisonReform
American_Way
Posted June 8, 2009 at 6:03 pm | Permalink
O.K. Linda prove me wrong.
Times up! You’ve had ample time to post information you should already have – since you posted the deranged claim.
Drum Roll: Linda proves my point valid:
“I swear you old ladies have vivid
imaginations.”
“Bluejay you abuse women for sex”
Ya can’t rape the willing. And your obsession with what you imagine of my sex life says a lot about how you are more hung up on sex than me.
You are maintaining that “pro life” (I put that in quotes for a reason, they’re not) groups protested Dr. Tiller’s funeral?
Well, it wouldn’t SURPRISE me. I come from that side remember. There were people ready and willing to do THE most classless and cruel things. Maybe I’ll tell about some of that again some time.
“You are just figuring this out now?”
I know Nathan but Linda comes across as if everyone not liberal is evil and wrong. Her holier than thou mannerism and one liners from the tape recording gets old after awhile.
And don’t dare challenge her because her liberal friends will gang up on you to protect their babe in the woods.
She cries equality but expects others to cover for her outrageous comments.
And then whines to the editor about how she was treated badly.
“Ya can’t rape the willing.”
Bluejay that’s such an adult post. You are the one who posted about your one night stands. Not me.
I could go on, but I’m tired of it too and really didn’t intend to hound you on it. But you came charging in on your high horse…..
“She cries equality but expects others to cover for her outrageous comments. ”
I know her personally. She has never asked anyone to stand up for her.
I’m more interested if the so called “pro life” groups had the unmitigated cruel gall to protest a funeral they helped cause. You seem to think they did.
“You are the one who posted about your one night stands. Not me.”
Go find me mentioning “one night stands”. I mentioned that I do not bring home women because of my son. Your imagination did the rest.
If PROLIFER’s are right, do you suppose Tiller and his killer will run into each other in he ll?
“She has never asked anyone to stand up for her.”
She is a wet noodle. A whimp. And she should find a literature or poetry site. Everyone knows her here and most ignore it.
She sure manages to have a firm grip on YOUR chain!
He keeps a list.
I’m not going to share what I know of linda anymore than to tell you that you could not possibly be more wrong. It’s too bad too because your opinion of her is almost funny knowing her as I do.
Roeder did not act alone. My question is why he wasn’t followed after being associated with Shelly Shannon, Sullenger from OR, and subscribed to the AOG group, had broken the law repeatedly in gluing the clinic doors shut. You would think that our government would have had him under watch. But no, our government under Bush put all the attention toward Muslims who had not one iota of distain for the US and liberals, who haven’t enacted any sort of murderous plot.
HE should have been on the watch list big time.
American_Way, I’m perfectly happy to let your words speak for you, and equally happy to let my words speak for me. I will never feel I owe you any explanation, and you shouldn’t feel you owe me one. Reasonable people can read whatever you post, whatever I post or scroll over one or both posters. It’s a public blog where any one who chooses may post whatever the censors allow.
I don’t hang out here at WEBlog in case someone issues some challenge. But do carry on with whatever time frames you feel something should be responded to, what challenges should be dignified with a response or which might not be.
It is absolutely true that each opinion is as equally good and as useless as the next.
With a federal investigation launched we’ll all be able to learn whether or not there was any conspiracy involved in Dr. Tiller’s murder.
Told ya…
And I was able to express my opinion without denigrating any poster and without calling any poster any name other than the one they choose as a nic.
Linda,
Very nice. But when you post your support for posters like KFG who do, it doesn’t make much difference.
Political_mama
Posted June 8, 2009 at 7:04 pm | Permalink
“Roeder did not act alone”
Please provide evidence of your claim, or admit it is pure speculation on your part having no basis in fact.
“under Bush put all the attention toward Muslims who had not one iota of distain for the US and liberals, who haven’t enacted any sort of murderous plot. ”
What?
Question for you…. HOw many abortion doctors have been killed by so called prolifers in the last 20 years?
HOw many Americans have been killed by Muslims?
I’m telling ya, the lady is nuts. Perhaps too old to be driving and posting.
Oooh. lindainks one, A-Way zero (or less: read on).
Mental violence has no potency and injures only the person whose thoughts are violent. It is otherwise with mental non-violence. It has potency which the world does not yet know.
-Mahatma Ghandi
And I would add that linda full well understands that the damage done by American_Way’s mental violence hurts not only him, but the GOP.
Pedant,
Linda posts nonsense. I suppose that HELPS the dims.
I’m not a big GOP guy myself. And truthfully you know in your heart of hearts any libs here are beyond help.
There will no converts, besides those that remain we WANT on your side.
All I did was challenge a poster to support her post. She didn’t. Case closed.
In a show of macho Chivalry her defenders can feel free to pile on now.
I’m going to bed.
Someone let me know on tomorrows open thread if Linda ever supported her post with facts. Else it’s just another lie.
Linda is a thinking and aware person, she goes after those who would post here not because they are Cons or Christian. But when they post something that she finds morality reprehensible or an out and out lie.
Her post up thread about who protested Dr. Tiller’s funeral is based on her being there and reinforced by the fact that the media also said that the only anti-group who protested was Phelps. It is certainly a good thing the Phelps were not alive at the time else Jesus would have been hearing them outside the tomb!
As to why they were the only one is speculation but not out of reasonable assumption. Knowing an investigation would be coming the pro-life groups at the time would not want to be visible. I am proud of the response of the Christian community in Wichita. In supporting the Church who’s home was so violated and the family of Dr. Tiller. That was certainly more a Christian act then those who take the name of the Lord in vain by rapping themselves in the cloak of God to justify their actions.
Writerdog,
It is just as reasonable to assume that most Pro-Life groups respected the mans funeral enough to not protest there.
That is the point. That Linda was making an assumption based on her own bias which she can’t prove.
Nathaniel that is also a valid possibility only those groups could say for sure. Some members would wish they could have been there to show they truly are pro-life and not only a hate group. This whole issue is one that emotion rather then logic is the motivation of the day. There are some within the pro-life movement who would see violence as the only real answer. They are rare and not the main force within the movements. It is so sad that many good people on both side of this issue are being caught up in the blanket characterizations.
Question for you…. HOw many abortion doctors have been killed by so called prolifers in the last 20 years?
Five. I hope you’re not suggesting that we need a higher body count before we should be concerned. That would be a pretty bankrupt moral calculus.
Moreover, these “Army of God” types tend to share a lot of anti-government, arm-to-the-teeth views of the radical “militias.” Think Tim McVeigh.
And the body count from his crime was around 180, if I recall.
Of course, they are plenty of religious conservatives who will never kill someone over abortion, but the correlations–hyper-religiousity, simplistic inflexible moral edicts, paranoia centered around taxes and firearms, lnability to see the other side, and a host of other predictable dogmatisms–are a bit disturbing.
Of course, even the most deluded religious conservatives aren’t going to pick up a gun and shoot someone. But the organized terrorist fringe has been very effective at finding those unstable ones who will, and plenty of others who look on with silent–or even nationally-broadcast–approval.
And for the past 35 years, conservative politicians have been using these people, something akin to if Iraq’s Al-Malaki using Iraq’s terrorist militias for his own ends (which he has).
The results, in both instances, have been deadly, and predictable.
The LIBs love a good
STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-REEEEEEEETTTTCCCHHHH!!!
While Rage gives us the view from the left, I would submit that anyone that would go to Tiller’s funeral who doesn’t know him personally, is most likely on the radical political fringe. Since several of the lib posters here went, well we know with whom we deal.
#
outlander
Posted June 8, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink
While Rage gives us the view from the left, I would submit that anyone that would go to Tiller’s funeral who doesn’t know him personally, is most likely on the radical political fringe. Since several of the lib posters here went, well we know with whom we deal.
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I didn’t go, because I would never want to be caught in a Methodist church. :D
outlander
Posted June 8, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink
While Rage gives us the view from the left, I would submit that anyone that would go to Tiller’s funeral who doesn’t know him personally, is most likely on the radical political fringe. Since several of the lib posters here went, well we know with whom we deal.
========================
Not necessarily on the fringe Left Outlander. I bet they had Free Food there. Maybe even Free Booze.
There has already been quite a few assumptions made, the assumption that Tiller was using the most hideous method to perform late term abortions. Partial birth and then use a corkscrew like devise to kill the baby. Such methods were used in the past, but from those who actually knew and /or worked with Dr. Tiller have said that the most common method was to inject a drug to stop the baby’s heart then another to induce labor. The process took about two days before the baby would be delivered. That is not so graphic or horrifying to hear about. Of course the end result of both ways is a death, the difference of course is the difference between dying in your sleep and that of being eaten by a Great White shark.
The assumption that all people that are pro-choice are heartless and inhuman and those who are pro-life are haters of women and religious zealots. The assumption that only the Right will respond with violence and wanton killing. The reality is that it does not matter which political swing one is, when feeling there is no hope left all will turn to violence. Be it the cause of the environment or pro-life there will be those who will see no gains as the reason to take up arms or deadly force.
The Physicians’s Oath; codified in the Declaration of Geneva, 1948 by the World Medical Association.
A quote from one line:
I will maintain the utmost respect for human life from the time of conception, even under threat, I will not use my medical knowledge contrary to the laws of humanity
I hadn’t thought of that JJ. I didn’t go because I didn’t want to get sick listening to the “tributes” to the man, who did what no one else in their right mind would want to do. I suppose that made him special in the same way that a…, aw, never mind. My mom made sure had better manners than to speak ill of the dead.
Good night everyone sleep with the angels and not the fishes!
If you don’t know him, why go to his funeral?
I mean really, why beat a dead horse?
I say true justice would be served by giving Kline the opportunity to defend Roeder! Since he was the A.G., he is a lawyer, right?
For your information, I have spoken directly to Dr. Tiller- he expressed his gratitude to all of us who were out counterprotesting and invited us in. I am friends with his staff.
The funeral was open to the public, there are a lot of people who admire him and his family for all that they have had to go through. He is a public figure, like it or not, and his acts have affected thousands if not millions positively. To poo poo anyone off for wanting to attend his funeral is in poor taste. Kindof like you fundies who insist on holding mock funerals for the fetuses who only affected his/her parents.
And there WERE more protesters than just the Phelps. They drove by repeatedly, flipping the bird, hanging their bibles out the window, scowling. They didn’t ORGANIZE a picket line because they knew if they did they’d be lumped in with Phelp’s crew. No, they didn’t want to appear like Phelps even though that’s exactly what they did- act just like him.
————
Really regular, who made that one up, some Catholic bishop?
There hasn’t been a single “partial birth” abortion performed at Tiller’s clinic in years. Its another lie the antis like to scream about. Speaking of sharks….shark fetuses eat each other…its survival of the fittest in the womb. Quick antis, go protest shark fetuses.
JimJones, Box, Amway, Nathan, Regular and Outlander are fighting for Phelps’ tacky funeral bashing status today.
“One source reported in late 1996, that there has been “over $13 million in damage caused by violent anti-abortion groups since 1982 in over 150 arson attacks, bombings, and shootings.” 1 ”
There have also been ACID ATTACKS….just like they do to women in Muslim nations. What kind of horrible person does such an act?
Tiller SAVED WOMEN”S LIVES. That is something none of you can dispute, but the women’s lives never matter to you. Aholes.
JimJohnson
Posted June 8, 2009 at 10:01 pm | Permalink
outlander
Posted June 8, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink
While Rage gives us the view from the left, I would submit that anyone that would go to Tiller’s funeral who doesn’t know him personally, is most likely on the radical political fringe. Since several of the lib posters here went, well we know with whom we deal.
========================
Not necessarily on the fringe Left Outlander. I bet they had Free Food there. Maybe even Free Booze.
======================================
99.9% of methodists dont even use wine for Communion… Why do you hate Methodists??
Political_Mama,
No, I don’t like nor do I care for what Phelps does. I think it is rude, inconsiderate, and what he says is wrong.
However, I will fight for his right to say it.
It is still a free country with free speech. You might not like what he says, but he has every right to say it.
Actuall, Phelps could be charged with assault… IF his speech causes emotional hurt to the families of the deceased…
“Nathaniel” comes down from the mountain and declares –
The Phred Felps cult is “inconsiderate.”
It’s the flip side of “damning with faint praise.”
The boy endorses with faint criticism.
Phred Felps.
“Inconsiderate.”
good night; good luck; god bless —
whatever you perceive god to be!!
blessings all!!
blessings on our great nation!!
so mote it be!!
Chas,
Under what law could someone be charged with assault for causing “emotional hurt?”
My apologies DirtyMonkey.
I find Phelps speech to be down right nasty, despicable, and disgusting.
Better?
Nathan,
“I find Phelps speech to be down right nasty, despicable, and disgusting.”
Given that at one time or another you’ve supported almost every position Phelps has, why do you pretend to find it so nasty, despicable and disgusting?
*********************************
Question for you…. HOw many abortion doctors have been killed by so called prolifers in the last 20 years?
Five. I hope you’re not suggesting that we need a higher body count before we should be concerned. That would be a pretty bankrupt moral calculus
*********************************************
You know I wasn’t. Inany case, even one was two many. IO was replying to this post by PMOM
”
You would think that our government would have had him under watch. But no, our government under Bush put all the attention toward Muslims who had not one iota of distain for the US”
Jed,
What positions would those be?
I have never said I agree with or support any of his positions.
Nathan,
You haven’t needed to say so; you’ve spent a lot of column inches here giving gay people as much trouble as you could, especially in the early years of the blog, Your expressed opinions on abortion correspond to Phelps statements almost to the letter and some of your statements about women and women’s rights could have been taken straight from Phelps playbook (no small wonder you can’t get a date). Hey, you seem to like most of what he says even if you don’t publicly support how he says it. If the shoe fits….
The weeniest Marine in history is whimpering tonight over stuff that’s –
“…down right nasty.”
C’mon, boy.
You’re one step away from threatening:
“I’m going to give you such a pinch!”
Go back to playing with your Ann Coulter doll.
MonkeyTurd,
All right then. Tell me what you think of Phelps.
Jed,
Sorry, but you would need to show me specifically what it is that Phelps has said that I have inadvertantly agreed with.
Speaking in your generalities doesn’t cut it.
I have never come close to saying anything as bad as Phelps has in regards to homosexuals.
The mere fact that I don’t agree with homosexual marriage isn’t enough for you to then lump me in with the likes of Phelps, but I wouldn’t expect much from you in the realm of being honest.
Nathan,
What I think of Phelps couldn’t be posted here.
Boy, I’ve posted many time about Phred Felps.
Do a bone-dig.
I don’t think I’ve ever said he was merely, “inconsiderate.”
Have you?
Nathan,
When I’ve got the time, I’ll do a bone-dig and post every one of your anti-gay statements. It’ll be an incredibly long post for sure! Until then, well, some of us still have to work for a living.
Jed,
My “anti-gay” statements?
LOL
Nathaniel
Posted June 9, 2009 at 12:21 am | Permalink
Chas,
Under what law could someone be charged with assault for causing “emotional hurt?”
======================================
I believe it would come under assault, slander, or libel… And yes, assault charges can be filed without physical injury… Physical injury would be included under battery… If some sort of weapoin is involved, it is a different level of assault…
Doesnt matter anyway… No matter how many links I post for you, you will call me names, and never answer the guts of the issue anyway..
So, essentially, if you’re as smart as you think you are, LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF…
Try http://www.findlaw.com, or findlaw.org… thatws a good starting point…
OH YEA, It might even be something filed in Civil Court…
Chas,
Basically, you were wrong, but are not going to admit it.
You can’t be charged with “assault” for causing “emotional hurt”, whatever that is.
I need a little help here….I’m not familiar with all the terminology used around here.
What is a ‘bone-dig?’
Daniel,
It is where you look up a posters previous posts in the past.
Nathaniel,
Thanks.
I have wondered about the sheer horrific terror Tiller must have felt during the last fleeting moments of his pitiful life… A stranger walks up to him, tells him is is going to die now and why they shoots him in church….. I have to say, perhaps Tiller got a little bit of what he gave…. Sad all the way around.
“JimJones, Box, Amway, Nathan, Regular and Outlander are fighting for Phelps’ tacky funeral bashing status today.”
Not true PMomma. When Phelps was protesting with signs about fags at military funerals I posted info regarding groups to protect against that.
You are showing the same sort of bias or unsupported thinking that Linda did. She couldn’t defend her actions either. In fact, she didn’t even try.
“That is the point. That Linda was making an assumption based on her own bias which she can’t prove.”
Nathan said it much better than I did.
gm,
“I have wondered about the sheer horrific terror Tiller must have felt during the last fleeting moments of his pitiful life… ”
I rather doubt that. Dr. Tiller was fully aware of the risks he took to help women. You’ll remember that this wasn’t the first time he’d been shot. You’ll no doubt remember the bombs, the deaths of other doctors, the constant threats etc. He was certainly more a hero to more people than you’ll ever be.