Given the loot stolen by investor Bernard Madoff and the lives he ruined, the maximum 150-year sentence imposed today seems just — if symbolic, given that he’s 71. But Madoff and one of his accountants, who also has been criminally charged, represent just a sliver of the global financial collapse. Texas billionaire R. Allen Stanford faces charges of bilking investors, too. But where are the other perp walks, prison sentences and accountability for what has cost so many investors so much?
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41 Comments
The distinction between white collar crime and regular crime needs to be eliminated. It doesn’t really matter whether they show a weapon or not, it’s still stealing, and far more has been stolen at the hands of the White Collar criminals. More Regulation Now, and Enforced Regulation Now. The bush social experiment about whether the elite will police themselves has come to an inglorious end.
The Obama admin. will make examples of these criminals, and chase them down the line. There are many being shielded that need to goto jail.
Phantom,
There is a huge difference between stealing someones money by tricking them and doing it with the threat of their life.
True enough Nathaniel.
However with trust gained by the likes of Madoff you can get away with a whole lot more as evidenced and take every penny they have.
If I make an investment in GM for example and lose my shirt, that’s my problem.
If I trust someone like Madoff to make the investment for me, and he not only doesn’t but creates false records to give the impression he has, that’s as criminal if not worse as anyone pulling a mugging in a back alley.
Mr_Kia,
With Madoff, as you said, it is YOU trusting someone. No matter how it goes down, you have your life, maybe not your money.
With a back alley mugging it is YOUR life being threatened. If you don’t give your money over, it may just be your life taken instead. Money doesn’t mean anything when you are dead.
There is a huge difference between the two, which is you living or not.
I agree to disagree.
If I get mugged, I’ve lost what I had in my wallet and better be smart enough to cancel my credit cards, etc. and not walk down that alley again.
In Madoff’s case, it went beyond the initial trust that he would be a good manager of someone’s finances. Statements were fradulent month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year to give the impression he was making you money.
Would you rather have a gun in your face and lose $40 or a smile and lose your life savings?
Right, Nathan: “But judge, I only stole his money. I didn’t stick a gun in his face.”
Stealing is stealing. If we use your logic, there is such a thing as hate crimes. After all, if you stick a gun in someones face and take his money, that must mean something less than sticking a gun in someones face, calling them a Jew bastid or a gay bastid, then taking their money. Right? Or can you only have it your way.
Ask the retired people if Madoff didn’t take the their lives when he robbed them. Your logic, as usual, s*cks.
May the Maid of the Perpetual Bar of Fallen Soap enhance the stay at prison for Madoff.
How many months until Madoff is out? 20 months? 4?
“Money doesn’t mean anything when you are dead.”
True enough. Remember that the next time the estate tax comes up.
Too, the dead do not further suffer.
People like Madoff are responsible for tremendous suffering of people who have to live with the consequences of HIS greed.
There aint a hole deep enough or a term long enough for someone like that. Worse. He is worse than a mugger or other small time criminal.
Somehow I bet the people who lost their homes, retirement, life savings to this douchebag wish they had only just been mugged
Phantom
Posted June 29, 2009 at 1:18 pm | Permalink
The Obama admin. will make examples of these criminals, and chase them down the line. There are many being shielded that need to goto jail.
—————
While the dems here applaud this sentence and want to see more like it they were strangly silent when the head of the DNC pulled the same krap under Clinton’s reign.
————-
DNC Chair Caught in Global Crossing Scandal
JW Investigates McCauliffe’s Link to Bankrupt Company
When Enron filed for bankruptcy, the largest in our nation’s history, Clinton crony Terry McAuliffe was among the first to cast his verbal stones. The DNC Chairman criticized greedy Enron executives for hurting the “small people,” calling for a full investigation. He lashed out at the wealthy special interests. He questioned the company’s ties to the Bush Administration. Armed with what he perceived to be a winning campaign issue against Republicans and their popular president, McAuliffe was relentless. Ironically, the Bush Administration’s cozy ties with Enron are subject to JW’s investigation.
So why has the Democratic Party’s most spotlight hungry mouthpiece faded from view? Two words. Global Crossing.
While the SEC and FBI begin to probe the questionable accounting practices of telecommunications giant Global Crossing, Ltd., which went belly up on January 28, Judicial Watch has launched a full investigation into Terry McAuliffe’s ties to the company.
In what is an unprecedented case of political profiteering, McAuliffe turned a $100,000 initial investment in the company into $18 million in less than a year and a half—a nifty 18,000% profit. According to the New York Times, McAuliffe made millions more trading the stock and options after the company went public in 1998.
———–
I have mentioned on this blog numberous times that this is the same money that McAulliffe used to buy the Clinton’s their upstate NY house. No dems here cared.
I too feel Madoff should be thrown in a cave and the key thrown away but I am not hypocritical to think that it is a problem one party over the other. This thinking is what makes the dems look like sheeple who wait for the thought of the day to be given to them.
Phantom for every dollar the DNC chairman profited some investor lost their money. Many put everything they had into Global Crossings and Terry took it all. Justice was he got away scott free and Martha Stewart went to jail over less than a thousand dollars.
“okobserver
Posted June 29, 2009 at 2:46 pm | Permalink”
What is it with you liberals always dredging up the past? Can’t you just focus on the here and now? Clinton isn’t President anymore, get over it…
the maximum 150-year sentence imposed today seems just — if symbolic, given that he’s 71.
=========================================
I say make him work in a Chinese sweat shop making Nikes until he croaks.
At what point does personal responsibility come in?
If an investment firm practically guarantees a 25% return when the market average is 8-10% doesn’t an investor have to be responsible enough to ask why?
If I go down to the pawn shop and buy a real Rolex for $100 I can get in trouble for possessing stolen property, or at very least lose my investment when the police take the watch and return it to the person it was stolen from. In that case, I should have known that it was too good to be true – buying a real Rolex for $100 is not reasonable.
Likewise, investors getting such high returns from Madoff had the responsibility to question why he was returning so much more than the market. They should have known it was too good to be true. But they were greedy and invested huge sums of money with an individual making extraordinary returns, well above what was reasonable for the market.
Now, I am not justifying Madoff’s fraud. I think he must be held accountable for what he did. However, I also have no sympathy for people who gave Madoff their entire savings to invest. They should have known better; his returns were too good to be true and they should have diversified.
Actually, Maggotpunk, under the Federal Guidelines, there is no parole. He’ll have to serve the vast majority of his sentence to think about any early release for “good behavior.” The Kansas guidelines work the same way; in Kansas, and in the Federal system, the “20 year sentence, out in 3″ days are gone.
And Nathan, I’m with the others here. There is little if any difference between a mugger and these bozos; in fact, the Madoffs of the world are worse. When you bilk an elderly person out of their life savings, condemning what should be an enjoyable retirement into scraping and begging to get by, you have taken, in effect, their life. Madoff and those like him deserve every minute they spend. Worse, it appears there is little chance of getting back what he stole.
Let’s keep in mind, however, that greater regulation would not, I think, have made a difference here. Madoff’s scheme was fraud, pure and simple, and those who are inclined to commit fraud will do so no matter what regulatory scheme is put in place. No scheme is fraud proof any more than any bank is theft-proof. There may in fact be a need for more regulation in the financial industry (perhaps, more than anything else, to limit the size of institutions so that no one is “too big to fail”), but Madoff’s case isn’t, I don’t think, evidence of it. Crooks will always be crooks.
Good post, GMC, I basically agree.
But don’t you think that BushCo’s philosophy that regulators should back off and let corporations “police themselves” contributed to the ease at which Madoff committed his crimes?
Madoff is nothing more than a pimp running a ponzi scheme, which began in 1991 by the way.
Capn the reason crime and deception ran rampant during the ninties wasn’t because of anyones in particular policies. What the left just can grasp is that thiefs are thiefs – they aren’t right or left, aren’t liberal or conservative – just criminals.
Until we all grasp this reality then nothing will be done. I am so sick and tired of the phoniness of people on both sides of the aisle. Go after the criminals not the victims or political parties.
What exactly deregulation did you think Bushco was responsible for that caused the Madoff crime or for that matter the McAulliffe crime with Global Crossing which the left just ignored and continue to ignore. Many lost 402Ks here also.
Was the SEC complicit in allowing this to go on for so long. Go after those who didn’t go after him. The are people with real names. They were his accomplices.
402 = 401
Media Forgets That Wall Street Rip Off Artist is BIG Democrat Donor
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081215135013.aspx
Yes – let’s get those evil CEO’s who supported Barack Obama for president with campaign money and later received an Obama bailout kiss.
Start with Freddy and Fannie. Put them all in jail, even if that means having to remove them from the Obama cabinet.
Here’s another one, from over in my neck of the woods. A very similar scam.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/08/relatives-make-plea-investors-defunct-company-seek-relief
Amway, did Obama have a time machine and bail them out when Bush was President? How did he manage that?
Hmmm, maybe the same way he had his birth announcement published when he was born.
“Yes – let’s get those evil CEO’s who supported Barack Obama for president with campaign money and later received an Obama bailout kiss.”
“did Obama have a time machine? ”
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 9, 2009
Fannie Mae reported yesterday that it lost $23.2 billion in the first three months of the year as mortgage defaults increasingly spread from risky loans to the far-larger portfolio of loans to borrowers who have been considered safe.
The massive loss prompts a $19 billion investment from the government to keep the firm solvent, on top of a $15 billion investment of taxpayer money earlier this year.
Fannie Mae said that the losses will continue through at least much of the year and that it “therefore will be required to obtain additional funding from the Treasury.” Analysts are estimating that the company could need at least $110 billion.
“did Obama have a time machine? ”
May 13th, 2009
From the Washington Post’s Zachary Goldfarb this morning:
Freddie Mac yesterday reported that it lost $10 billion in the first three months of the year, as investments in mortgages continued to fall in value at the federally run housing finance giant.
The disclosure automatically prompts a $6 billion investment from the Treasury Department to keep the company solvent, bringing Freddie Mac’s bailout total to $51 billion in the first nine months of its government rescue…
“did Obama have a time machine? ”
While there may be optimism [1] that the era of big bank bailouts is over, the Fannie and Freddie bailout remains in full swing. Freddie posted [2] a $9.9 billion loss for the first quarter yesterday and said it needed $6.1 billion more from the Treasury.
That brings Freddie’s total bailout [3] so far to $50.7 billion. And for Fannie [4] and Freddie together, it’s $84.9 billion.
Over the next 10 years, the government’s rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is expected to cost $389 billion, exceeding the cost of investments in banks and other financial firms by the government’s Troubled Assets Relief Program, according to a recent study by Subsidyscope, a project of the Pew Charitable Trusts. The group based its calculations on Congressional Budget Office figures.
“Yes – let’s get those evil CEO’s who supported Barack Obama for president with campaign money and later received an Obama bailout kiss.
Start with Freddy and Fannie. Put them all in jail, even if that means having to remove them from the Obama cabinet.”
2009
The White House turned to an experienced former investment banker Friday to run the federal government’s $700 billion bank rescue effort, selecting the head of mortgage giant Fannie Mae as an assistant Treasury secretary.
Herbert Allison Jr., Fannie Mae’s president and CEO, will replace Neel Kashkari, a holdover from the Bush administration.
Allison, who must be confirmed by the Senate, would bear the title of assistant Treasury secretary for financial stability and counselor to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.
He would be in charge of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the fund that has injected billions of dollars into banks in hopes of unclogging credit
“did Obama have a time machine and bail them out when Bush was President? ”
Your answer is in the series of posts above. The answer is no – Obama is a crook in his own right.
KILL KILL KILL
The Evil Rich Bas Turds Must Die!
Y’all Libs need an enemy to blame, and to kill.
Go for it.
Heard on the cable news 10 more are getting ready to be charged, so madoff will be having company.
Oh Great!
More people to bring down!
JM Walker,
“Stealing is stealing.”
=================================================
Yes, I agree. Then when you add in things like a deadly weapon, threats, and violence, it is no longer just stealing.
“If we use your logic, there is such a thing as hate crimes.”
================================================
Not really no. Unless you care to explain my logic and then how it means there is such a thing as hate crimes?
“After all, if you stick a gun in someones face and take his money, that must mean something less than sticking a gun in someones face, calling them a Jew bastid or a gay bastid, then taking their money. Right? Or can you only have it your way.”
=================================================
How exactly does insulting someone change anything about the crime?
“Ask the retired people if Madoff didn’t take the their lives when he robbed them. Your logic, as usual, s*cks.”
================================================
But he didn’t ACTUALLY take their lives. Losing your life savings wouldn’t be fun, but again, you are still alive.
There is a difference. Constantly saying my logic sucks doesn’t add anything to the discussion either.
GMC70,
“And Nathan, I’m with the others here. There is little if any difference between a mugger and these bozos; in fact, the Madoffs of the world are worse. When you bilk an elderly person out of their life savings, condemning what should be an enjoyable retirement into scraping and begging to get by, you have taken, in effect, their life.”
==================================================
In effect is not actually taking their life though.
Tricking someone into GIVING you their life savings obviously costs much more than some mugger taking your cash on hand by threat of deadly force, but again, that is using a deadly weapon and threat of violence.
No matter how you break it down, your life is worth more than everything you have.
Taking someones life is far worse than all their money.
“Madoff and those like him deserve every minute they spend. Worse, it appears there is little chance of getting back what he stole. ”
================================================
Oh yes, I agree. People like this should be punished and punished harshly.
My argument is that there is an obvious difference between tricking someone into giving you their money and taking it by threatening them with their life.
Deregulate….deregulate, deregulate, deregulate, deregulate……..
Ask your dad would he rather be threatened and mugged by a kid with a gun and lose a few bucks, or be swindled out of everything he has, by a professional?
Of course, every “victim” of a con is a “vicitm” of their own greed.
Every “vicitm” of Ponzi, Madoff, Stanford…Wall Street… thought they could get richer than other people by bucking the odds.
It’s why the casino industry thrives.
Phantom,
1. If my father was mugged by some kid with a gun, that kid would probably be dead and my father wouldn’t lose a dime.
2. My father would never be swindled out of everything he has.
Nevermind, the question should be:
Would you rather be dead or be alive with all of your life savings gone?
MH –
Your 7:58 – I couldn’t agree more.