Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered a probe of Friday’s presidential election results, and many U.S. analysts are assuming that there was widespread fraud. But pollsters Ken Ballen and Patrick Doherty caution that the results “may reflect the will of the Iranian people.” Nationwide polling they did three weeks before the vote showed incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad leading with a more than 2-1 majority.
Even if Ahmadinejad really did win, Iran shouldn’t be surprised by the skepticism. As a Washington Post editorial noted: “When a regime peremptorily chooses which candidates can run; shutters newspapers, Web sites and television bureaus; silences text messaging; and throws critics into prison — such a regime should not expect its pronouncements on election results to garner any respect.”
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42 Comments
Too bad there is no 2nd Amendment in Iran.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526363,00.html
Gunmen fired on Iranian protesters during a massive demonstration over the country’s hotly-disputed election, killing at least one person.
An Associated Press photographer saw one person shot dead and several others who appear seriously wounded in Tehran’s Azadi Square. The shooting came from a compound for volunteer militia linked to Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard.
—
But Iranian television painted a more violent picture, saying that pro-government militia opened fire on the crowd of Mousavi supporters, killing at least one, Reuters reported.
Of course the US Government would never fire on it’s own people.
“As a Washington Post editorial noted: “When a regime peremptorily chooses which candidates can run; shutters newspapers, Web sites and television bureaus; silences text messaging; and throws critics into prison — such a regime should not expect its pronouncements on election results to garner any respect.”
———————–
Sure, or when a regime cuts off Freedom of Speech from anyone wanting to buy advertisements prior to an election, then such a regime should not expect its election results to garner respect.
Reminds me of the US elections. Ours is probably no more reliable or honest. ACORN anyone? And there was that one small republican outfit in CA cheating too.
Oh no AmWay, it can’t happen here.
The USA would never restrict Freedom of Speech during elections.
The USA would never fire dangerous weapons at its own people.
There would never be fraudulent voting allowed in the USA.
Of course these riots in Iran would NOT be occurring without that Great Speech from Obama in Egypt.
ACORN, really?
A few hundred workers over the entire US and the AMWays of the right are screaming murder.
Dude, what they find, one homeless guy that voted more than once?
It’s much easier to commit election fraud by controlling the vote count than by bussing in tens of thousands of illegal voters. The problem we have in the US is that people don’t vote, not that they vote too often.
When the Supreme Court shut down the recount in Florida, even though voting is a state’s rights issue and the Florida Supreme Court had ruled that the mandatory recount should go forward, that was much more effective at installing an unelected leader than having homeless guys vote twice . . .
BTW, Obama won by almost 10 million votes in the last election.
No way in hell that ACORN finagled 10 million votes.
Obama won. Get over it.
CapnAmerica,
The President isn’t elected by vote count. He is elected by electoral votes. It usually comes down to a few swing states like Florida and Ohio as to who wins the election.
So yes, voting fraud in those few states, does indeed matter.
And, Bush won…. twice, and you still have not gotten over it. Take your own advice.
Get over yourself Capn. I mentioned election fraud by BOTH sides in my original post.
Further, elections are about more than your Holy One. Elections of Senators were within 5% in seven states (one still in the air). Congressmen in the house in 16 races were close. Ballot measures on the local level are also influenced.
ONE, just ONE fraud case puts a blemish on the entire process. It leads to doubt and suspicion.
And when Obama gets done with ACORN counting the Census, and dem majority redraws the congressional districts – it will really bring doubt to our election process.
We might as well get ourselves an Ayatollah.
Maybe we already have……
JimJohnson–
The US did indeed fire dangerous weapons at its own citizens:
May 4, 1970 at Kent State University.
Ohio National Guardsmen shot into a crowd, only SOME of whom were protesting, 67 times killing four students and wounding nine. One suffered permanent paralysis.
May 15, 1970 at Jackson State University.
Police and state troopers fire at least 460 at a crowd of unarmed students. Two students were killed and 12 others were struck by gunfire, some were studying at their desks inside a dormitory.
You’re saying that these students would have been better off if they fired back?
Hmmmm . . .
Oh no Capn, Americans should just lie down and die for their country, whenever Federal troops fire on them.
Nathan opines that It usually comes down to a few swing states like Florida and Ohio as to who wins the election.
Except that in the last election, Obama took all the swing states: PA, FLA, and OH.
Thank you, George W. Bush.
In fact, if the Feds request that you lie down in trenches or shower rooms, then you should obey Federal orders no matter what.
Those people in Iran should not be protesting their own country.
They should simply follow orders.
They are being subversive, and that should not be allowed.
Given the fact, Max, that many students were killed even though they weren’t firing weapons, one wonders how firing back would have helped.
I think that would have simply justified even more wholesale slaughter.
Strange, Max.
When people in this country protested W’s illegal and immoral war based on a pack of lies, I don’t remember you supporting them . . .
Elections results are Final.
Ahmadinejad’s opponent should have to pay all legal fees once that fact is realized. He should also think twice about supporting a review that ensures that the election was fair. As we learned from Minnesota, that’s not what the “people” want.
CapnAmerica,
Just like Bush took them when he won TWICE as well.
Thank Al Gore and John Kerry.
The point was that the total popular vote isn’t what elects someone and therefore is not a logical defense against claiming there was no voter fraud because of how much of the total popular vote a candidate had.
Gosh Capn, you suppose if those students had the right to carry back in 1974, that the National Guard would have been so quick to open fire on them?
CapnAmerica
Posted June 15, 2009 at 12:38 pm | Permalink
Strange, Max.
When people in this country protested W’s illegal and immoral war based on a pack of lies, I don’t remember you supporting them . . .
—————————
That’s because it wasn’t illegal, and it was based on the same intelligence information that led President Clinton, VP Gore, Senators Clinton, Kerry, and many other Democrat & Republican to reach the same conclusion Bush did, and vote for and authorize funding for the war.
The Democrats have controlled Congress since January 2007 and even they continue to fund what you call an “illegal and immoral” war. And if Bush lied, the Democrat Congress failed to impeach him for it.
So, when are YOU going to protest Obama & the Dem Congress for continuing to fund this “illegal and immoral” war?
But, but, the chosen one. . .his Mid East changing speach in Cairo! . . .
LOL
The Ayatollas are making the same mistake that all theocracies make. They think power flows down from above and through them. One of these days, they’re going to find themselves in the same situation as the rest of the world’s dictators- hung upside down and on fire, or on trial for crimes against the people- and discover that real power eventually does come from the people.
Max–
Obama has followed through on his campaign pledge to withdraw troops by a date certain.
Obviously, he can’t just pull everybody out without preparing the security that BushCO seemed incapable of for the last 7 years.
*****
As for “would the troops have fired if the students were armed?” Of course, they would have. In fact they would have fired sooner and more often. And they would have been able to justify what they did.
The Senators–as has been proven time and time again with no impact on the CON mind–never had the same intelligence that BushCo. did.
They did not know that a lot of the so-called evidence was the result of torture sessions in which the victim would have said that George Bush is God had they asked him.
The Senators did not know how much bad information was coming from how few sources, like the total bogus “Curveball” who was cutting deals with Bush operatives by telling them what they wanted to hear.
Lastly, the UN had a team on the ground headed by Hans Blix that was finding nothing day after day. If Bush was really sure that the “tons and tons” of weapons of mass destruction were there, they would have let Blix find them.
They didn’t. They cut them off, so that they wouldn’t be proven wrong so that they could do what they want–invade and control the oil.
And btw, Max,
You still haven’t explained why Iranians should not just “get over it” when Achmadinjad wins an election like you did when people protested Bush’s “win.”
The Capn shows his knowledge of Iranian affairs by bringing up Bush and Hans Blix.
CapnAmerica,
Why should such a statement deserve an explanation?
Or better yet, why don’t you explain how the Iranian Presidential election is so similar to the Us Presidential election that it warrants such a comparison and explanation?
Much like the last election here in America, the Iranians feel betrayed by those who say they are connected to God who greedily fed their own agenda in detriment to the needs of the people.
Nathaniel
Posted June 15, 2009 at 2:06 pm | Permalink
CapnAmerica,
Why should such a statement deserve an explanation?
Or better yet, why don’t you explain how the Iranian Presidential election is so similar to the Us Presidential election that it warrants such a comparison and explanation?
===================================
Capn’A heard this nonsense from LIB commentators over the last few days.
(they have a herd mentality)
Wow.
CONs are really taking the old “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” canard to remarkable extremes.
Suddenly, WE Blog CONs are pro-Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and avid supporters of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Talk about your strange bedfellows.
According to Libs, it’s Not OK to oppose the Government, unless it Is OK to oppose the Government.
Darn it! Obama must not have apologized enough. I was certain that after apologizing for America, and understanding Iran sponsoring the blowing up of 241 Marines in Lebannon, and kissing the Kings ring,
surely Obama would have won the write in vote.
Can’t honestly say the U.S. election system is much better. When popular vote falls way side to the Electoral College, and when there’s no limit on campaign funding. It’s pretty much pre-determined by the time 3-5 major candidates are left. There should be some sort of meshing of popular vote and the electoral college. I don’t think the electoral college should be done away with. I just think popular vote needs a little more weight to it.
Maybe Obama needs help??? Instead of wishing him to fail like the Libs did to Bush. Oops too late, everybody on the right is wishing him to fail.
Maybe the right should try to work with Obama, hell even peacefully protest some issues.
Actually I don’t many Libs were wishing Bush to fail, I think Bush paved that road on his own.
I’m sure Obama and Bush have more in common than people realize. Both did coke, drank, had substance abuse issues. Uh well that’s all I can think of. Obama came from a more humble background. Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
“Barnie” alleges –
“It’s pretty much pre-determined by the time 3-5 major candidates are left.”
It’s about a year ago to the day that Senator Clinton conceded the Democratic nomination to Barack Obama.
By that time, McCain was the Repubic Party’s pick.
So your theory plays out, I guess.
But look who the GOP got in the bargain.
Those winner-take-all primaries were Fat City for George WMD Bush in 2000. It also got ‘em Boob Dole in ‘96.
Proportional delegates for the Democrats resulted in increased interest and participation in the primary process.
Not to mention all the legal hoops 3rd, 4th, and 5th party candidates have to negotiate to just gain ballot access.
Libertarians, Green Party, and Constitution Party supporters know what I’m talking about.
“Daniel” mentions –
“…all the legal hoops 3rd, 4th, and 5th party candidates have to negotiate to just gain ballot access.”
Good point.
One of my favorite thought problems is inspired by the 38-State Map developed back in the 1970s.
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2006/09/10/5-the-38-state-union/
Basically, it redraws state line that were originally established due to the populations and technologies of history.
There’s no reason Missouri is shaped that way except that people couldn’t cross the Mississippi River all that easily back in the day. The reason there are all those square states out west is drawing lines on a map in the late 1800s.
Today, thanks to population centers, the regional economies, the media… it’s pretty obvious Wichita has more in common with Oklahoma City than with Kansas City. And Kansas City’s economy has more in common with Omaha and Des Moines than with St. Louis. Why do we need more than one Dakota.
Okay… so Topeka and Lincoln and Des Moines won’t be eager to be “former” state capitals. So put the proposal out front… say the 2076 Tri-Centennial marks the day of all state lines re-drawn, and a new Constitutional Convention that applies even congressional representation and electoral votes in a way that’s relevant to realities of economy, population, media….
Eh….
Barnie
Posted June 15, 2009 at 10:41 pm | Permalink
Maybe Obama needs help??? Instead of wishing him to fail like the Libs did to Bush.
————–
He needs help alright.
He needs to listen to those who oppose Government takeover of Banks, Insurance Companies, Auto Companies, Health Care System, Rampant Government Spending…..
He just ain’t listening.
So yeah, I hope Obama fails to take over the rest of Private Industry, and I hope Obama can undo the f-ups he’s made already, in such a brief time.
Imagine what he’ll F-UP tomorrow?
Jimbo,
The Great Depression was precipitated by holding companies making bad investments and failing royally- analogous to our present situation. Obama had a choice; let them fail, like they did in 1929 snd take all the suppliers, dealers, workers and others others with them, or buy out these giant bankrupt failures and get them back to profitability, and hopefully get a bit of return on our investment and reregulate them so this particular scene won’t be replayed, and then send them back into the market.
What Obama is doing is not nationalizing industry, he’s saving capitalism from its own excesses. He ought to be your hero!
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