Higher cost of higher ed

collegetuition4Faced with a deep state spending cut, the Kansas Board of Regents and the state’s universities had to find more money somewhere for the fall. Unfortunately, the natural place to look was to students and their families, in the form of newly approved tuition increases ranging from 3.9 to 8.5 percent. Wichita State University is to be credited for trying to use stimulus money to offset the pain with automatic scholarships for in-state students. Still, there’s no telling how many wannabe students will be deterred by any tuition increase — and there have been many this decade. Put “more affordable tuition” on the lengthening list of things the state needs to work on once the economy improves.

69 Comments

  1. JWink
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Stimulus money by its very nature is borrowed money that will never be paid back. U.S. taxpayers will pay at least 5 percent interest on this money, much to foreign countries, for many years to come. These interest payments on the national debt is now the largest item in our federal budget.

    Because the federal governmennt is shoveling this money out like there is no tomorrow, managers of this money and recipients should ask themselves … is the use of this money worth destroying the future economy of our country?

  2. JWink
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    These interest payments on the national debt ARE now the largest item in our federal budget. Sorry.

  3. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    WE NEED TO NATIONALIZE PUBLIC EDUCATION! THE COST IS INCREASING TOO FAST! FASTER THAN INFLATION!!! THE STATE SHOULD PAY! EDUCATION IS A RIGHT!!!!!

    No. Wait. We already did.

    NeVERmind.

  4. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    “credited for trying to use stimulus money ”

    The libs need to tell Obama to print up some more free money! Either build more printing presses or speed them up.

  5. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Now wait a minute…

    Were there not at least TWO topics already posted this month about state universities wasting money and not being able to attract enough extra donor money?

    Is the Wichita Eagle on some mission to raise taxes to get more money for the universities?

  6. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    “Is the Wichita Eagle on some mission to raise taxes to get more money for the universities?”

    Of course. They are part of the ABC crowd.

    And every liberal knows the correct way to take care of problems is to THROW SOME MORE MONEY AT IT!!!!

  7. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    How do we take over healthcare?

    1. Invent a crises.
    2. Get the media buy in
    3. Enact a government solution
    4. Throw more money at it.

    When something goes wrong with the public program
    repeat.

  8. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Raise Tuition! More Money is Needed to Waste!

    http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/06/thank-the-open-records-act/#comments

    Open Records Act reveals audit results showing questionable financial transactions.

  9. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Raise Tuition! Athletics Departments Need Mo Money!

    http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/06/hold-athletic-departments-accountable/#comments

    Undocumented payments. A questionable $500,000 loan. A bank account unreviewed by the university controller that was used to make more than $1 million in payments a year. These and other revelations in the Kansas Board of Regents’ audit of Kansas State University suggest, at best, that oversight of KSU’s athletic department needed to be tighter in recent years.

  10. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Raise Tuition! Not Enough $$ Donated Voluntarily.

    http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/06/few-donating-to-campus-repairs/#comments

    Few donating to campus repairs

    With the state’s university system facing a repair backlog and dollars limited, it seemed worth a try in 2007 for the Legislature to offer tax credits to those wishing to donate money for campus repairs. But in the tax credit’s first year, it generated $862,000 — nice but not enough to address a list of $825 million in projects.

  11. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Employees all over America are taking Pay Cuts.

    I wonder, do you think any of the University employees are able to afford a pay decrease?

    I wonder how much those University employees take from taxpayers and students, oh I mean how much do they “earn” every year?

  12. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    “Not Enough $$ Donated ”

    Just wait until Obama ends those “evil” tax breaks for charitable donations.

    Then Uncle Barack can have the federal goverment take over all donations. Just fire up that printing press – for MORE FREE MONEY!!!!

  13. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    University Of Kansas Salaries

    Lewis Perkins ($604,805.80)
    Robert Emery Hemenway ($306,152.92)
    William L Fuerst ($266,683.08)
    Thomas Norwood Taylor ($235,702.25)
    Stephen R. McAllister ($229,176.84)
    Sivaprasad Gogineni ($221,819.71)
    George Bittlingmayer ($221,681.14)
    James A. Roberts Jr ($215,538.40)
    Surendra N. Singh ($214,409.93)
    Rajendra P. Srivastava ($213,698.23)
    Victor S. Frost ($211,973.65)
    Stuart R Bell ($210,461.54)
    Bala Subramaniam ($210,299.86)
    Timothy L. Shaftel ($208,902.05)
    David E. Shulenburger ($208,891.06)
    Prakash P. Shenoy ($204,609.12)
    James Anthony Heintz ($201,794.46)

    See the rest at:

    http://www2.ljworld.com/salaries/ku/2005/university-of-kansas/

  14. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Oh but Jim, “It’s for the children.”

  15. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Evil Rich:

    Lewis Perkins ($604,805.80)
    Robert Emery Hemenway ($306,152.92)
    William L Fuerst ($266,683.08)

    All the rest pass the Barack judgement as being just good ole Americans. They have NO OBLIGATION to pay taxes.

  16. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Kansas State University Salaries

    Jon Wefald ($275,899.48)
    M Duane Nellis ($211,519.00)
    Terry S King ($211,445.23)
    Yar M Ebadi ($203,802.22)
    Lakshmi N Reddi ($187,596.73)
    Ted C Schroeder ($186,413.59)
    Fred Cholick ($182,159.37)
    Bikram S Gill ($181,196.04)
    David A Schmidt ($180,321.01)
    Robert S Krause ($179,001.00)
    Thomas Michael Rawson ($177,946.00)
    Stephen E White ($177,315.17)
    Ralph C Richardson ($175,157.77)
    Mohammad H Hosni ($171,036.70)
    Kenneth J Klabunde ($170,659.65)
    Roger B Fingland ($169,789.48)
    Ronnie G Elmore ($168,893.23)
    Byron W Jones ($168,027.43)
    Bradley A Kramer ($167,693.15)
    Virgil E Wallentine ($165,256.23)
    David B Mengel ($163,316.70)
    James L Marsden ($162,749.69)
    Brian S Spooner ($162,008.99)
    Forrest G Chumley ($161,689.26)
    Virgil W Smail ($161,641.01)
    Michael C Holen ($161,153.90)
    Ronald W Trewyn ($157,822.00)
    Elizabeth A Unger ($157,783.70)
    Chwen Sheu ($156,692.78)
    Daryl D Buchholz ($156,657.54)
    Allen M Featherstone ($153,952.49)
    Brian P Niehoff ($152,026.54)

    See the rest at:

    http://www2.ljworld.com/salaries/state/2005/kansas-state-university/

  17. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:29 am | Permalink
    Oh but Jim, “It’s for the children.”

    ———————-

    Oh right! Then any expense is A-OK.

    ObamaCare will ultimately pass for the same reason.

  18. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Note: Add 22% to the salary numbers to get the value of their benefits.

    See Section II of the Spreadsheet found here:

    http://www.k-state.edu/pa/statinfo/ipeds/faculty/index.htm

  19. American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    I’m beginning to wonder if it is O.K. to be rich if the government gives it to you?

    If you don’t earn it on your own, and the taxpayers pay your salary – it’s A.O.K. to be rich?

    Where is the PosterBoy when you need it?

  20. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    It’s now after 10 am, so Poster Boy® should arrive any minute now.

  21. JimJohnson
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    American_Way
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 10:03 am | Permalink
    I’m beginning to wonder if it is O.K. to be rich if the government gives it to you?

    ————————

    Sure, it’s ok for the elitists, who know everything and will take care of us, to get a little extra.

    The Commies did the same thing.

  22. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Of course, colleges could have cut all the unnecessary administrative overhead, but that’s not what they do.

    That would be admitting that all those nothing jobs were nothing to begin with.

    Only half of the jobs on a college campus have anything directly to do with teaching. And at a big university, most “teachers” are spending most of their time not teaching–committee work, academic research, publishing, and grant writing.

    As if that weren’t bad enough, most first year and many second year courses are not even taught by professors . . . they’re taught by Graduate Teaching Ass’ts, who really aren’t “assisting” anyone. They’re people who have just started a graduate program and may have ZERO advanced coursework in their field before they start teaching.

  23. Regular
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Budget problems at the universities? Isn’t that where all the educated people are located? Can’t keep their budget balanced or plan for future repairs?

    my my…

  24. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Wow, those salaries are obscene, JJ/Max.

    Now multiply each one by one hundred or one thousand and you have the CEO pay of a Fortune 500 Company.

  25. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Correction: multiply each salary by 10 or 100 . . .

  26. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Like Big Dick Cheney when he made 36 million in six months “working” (hahahaha) for Halliburton.

  27. Regular
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    #
    CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Wow, those salaries are obscene, JJ/Max.

    Now multiply each one by one hundred or one thousand and you have the CEO pay of a Fortune 500 Company.
    —————–
    Or the salaries of the football or basketball coaches…

    (chortles)

  28. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    You’re right, Regular.

    The only thing in worse deficit spending is, uh, the military . . .

  29. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    of course, capn, you conveniently ignore the salaries of ceo’s are not provided by TAXPAYERS. ohhhh, forget that little detail, did you?

    Therefore, there is no validity to your comparison.

  30. Regular
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    You’re right, Regular.

    The only thing in worse deficit spending is, uh, the military .
    ———————–
    Perhaps the obscene salaries and pseudo-god status give to those in Caliwood, Hollyfornia.

  31. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Excuse me, Reg.

    Are you confusing me with someone who supports high salaries for athletic coaches.

    I’m wholly opposed.

    If I had my way, no athletic scholarships would be provided, all college sports teams would grow out of a thriving INTRAmural system, no college player would be eligible for professional sports until two years after he or she graduates, and the coach would be a P-E instructor.

    Kansas teams would actually play other Kansas teams instead of the recruited California and Texas ringers hired to represent the school.

    The athletic programs we have now, and the money they spend to train potential pros, is a scandal.

  32. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Raptor talks through his hat by claiming, “of course, capn, you conveniently ignore the salaries of ceo’s are not provided by TAXPAYERS. ohhhh, forget that little detail, did you?”

    No, in fact I did not. Halliburton gets most of its money through gov’t contracts. That’s exactly why the former Sec’ry of War, Dick Cheney, was hired . . . to funnel more of those contracts to Halliburton, which he did, spectacularly.

    So, you’re wrong, Raptor. In many cases, (see also Bombardier, Spirit, Boeing, GE, etc. etc.) big business makes trillions from gov’t contracts, paid for by taxpayers.

  33. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    “Put “more affordable tuition” on the lengthening list of things the state needs to work on once the economy improves.” – Rhonda

    ————

    What? The Obama has allowed no such common sense exception to his policies! There is enough money for everything, you simple knaves. Simply tax the citizenry for your needs. The more the government spends, the better for the economy.

    Now, by order of the Obama, get out there and tax and spend!

  34. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    capn,..you are so obviously confused it is sad. A contract to provide goods and services is vastly different than direct taxpayer support. Or are you so blinded by your hatred for business that you cannot even see that simple little fact?

  35. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    btw, capn…those contracts are awarded thru a competitive bidding process so contractors can do things like, oh..build roads that even YOU drive on. Earning business thru a competitive bid and then doing measurable WORK is quite different than a tax supported university. But…your blinders prevent you from seeing even that, don’t they?

    must be hell living in your world of hatred for so much….

  36. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I guess I am blinded by my hatred for business.

    Because you’re right, I don’t see any difference between giving poor people food stamps to buy food or giving CON Agra a huge tax break to sell pork cheaper than family farmers can raise pigs.

    Except that the latter rewards a filthy rich company at the expense of the small farmer while the former gets the money directly to the people who need it.

  37. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    btw, capn…those contracts are awarded thru a competitive bidding process

    *****

    Wow, you really haven’t been paying attention, have you, Raptor.

    Halliburton got NO BID contracts in Iraq on projects that were “classified” so no one could see what was being spent for what.

    CONvenient, isn’t it?

  38. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    and, of course, that ‘filthy rich’ company doesn’t employ any people who own homes, pay taxes, attend school, go to church, support charities or anything of the kind, do they? Noooo..these ‘filthy rich companies’ exist in a vacuum all by themselves, right?

    earth to capn…it is not nearly as simplistic as you paint it in your hatred.

  39. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    I love seeing guys who make maybe 100K defending CEO’s who make 10 or 50 MILLION dollars a year, and run their companies into the ground and destroy the stock price at the same time.

    Talk about “useful idiots.”

  40. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    You’re right again, Raptor.

    Those folks DO own homes. Cheney has six homes. McCain has so many houses that he can’t keep track of how many he has . . . maybe eleven.

  41. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    well, he11, capn…let’s just shoot everyone who makes over, what, $100,000 a year. Will THAT make you happy?

  42. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    And btw, if you’re going to defend companies because they “employ people who own homes, pay taxes, attend school, go to church, support charities,” then you also have to support GOVERNMENT for the same reasons.

  43. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Well you can’t argue with that.. since you can’t tell what the heck Capn said, where he got his information, or whether the point of his mini- rant went further than: “I hate the golden goose and would like very much to move to Cuba”.

  44. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Raptor–

    Shooting people who disagree with you seems to be more of a CON thing. Cf., Roeder and the Unitarian Church Shooter

    I don’t think we need to shoot people who make obscene salaries.

    Just reduce their salaries.

  45. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    #
    CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:20 pm | Permalink
    Oops, fell way behind. This is the CapnA rant my last post was referring to.

    ————–
    Yeah, I guess I am blinded by my hatred for business.

    Because you’re right, I don’t see any difference between giving poor people food stamps to buy food or giving CON Agra a huge tax break to sell pork cheaper than family farmers can raise pigs.

    Except that the latter rewards a filthy rich company at the expense of the small farmer while the former gets the money directly to the people who need it. – CapnA

  46. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    ahhhh….so you are in favor of bho taking over all companies and regulating salaries? Is that your answer to all the county’s problems? perfect…just about what i would expect from you.

  47. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Some day, outlander will make an interesting post on his own without simply ridiculing a LIB post.

    That day is not today however . . .

    (Or yesterday or the day before or the day before that, heigh ho.)

  48. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Well Capn, somebody’s got to do it. And you guys make it so darn easy.

    Be sure to keep that material coming.

  49. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    ….so you are in favor of bho taking over all companies and regulating salaries?

    ****

    No, I’m not in favor of that. Telling me what I want when I don’t want that doesn’t help your argument any.

    http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/28/news/economy/ceo_pay_workers/index.htm

    However, up until the 70’s, American companies did very well with CEO’s earning only 25 times the amount of workers. In 1989, CEO’s earned only 71 times the amount of a full-time worker.

    Now they earn 250 to 400 times (depending on the year, it fluctuates) with no concurrent improvement in performance.

    The gov’t should help unions to strengthen so that this imbalance is re-balanced for starters. It also could look into stock options which are clear violations of “insider trading” laws.

  50. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Selling stock on bad news before anybody else knows is what George W. Bush did when he was on a company’s Board of Directors.

    He made a quick 88,000 dollars which he would have lost had he held the stock.

    The SEC didn’t really investigate because his father was the effing President of the United States at the time.

    But you can’t blame GW for ignoring insider trading laws, he was very busy kissing up to influential Saudis like the Bin Laden family at the time . . .

  51. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Talk about hypocrisy with a capital H. capn writes:

    Telling me what I want when I don’t want that doesn’t help your argument any.

    That was in response to my asking a QUESTION about if he was in favor of something. And, two days ago, he writes:

    “CapnAmerica
    Posted June 27, 2009 at 7:27 pm | Permalink
    Raptor wishes that Obama’s ratings looked like Bush’s

    Sooo…it is ok for capn to tell people what they are thinking, but objects when someone asks what he is in favor of, and gets offended. What a maroon.

    capn..you need to put down the hate blinders for a while, they are affecting your ability to read and reason.

  52. Monkeyhawk
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    I can’t think of a better investment of taxpayers’ money than education.

    But CONs hate education.

    They grow up bullying the nerds, demeaning academic achievement, and resenting the boss and blame all that book-learnin’.

    How many times have you heard the twice-born say stuff like, “All I need to know is in the Bible!“?

    Keep that in mind next time you’re wheeled into surgery. Consider how you’d feel about your vacation flight to Wally World on a plane that’s been designed from someone who relies on knowledge imparted in Genesis.

  53. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    cons hate education? oh puhleeeeze. give it a try to prove that outrageous ridiculous lie, will you?

    i would love to see some actual backup of that stupid comment, mh. c’mon..back it up with something other than your misguided opinion. c’mon…we are waiting. you put it out there, back it up…with something concrete.

  54. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    crickets chirping as we wait for some kind of actual proof of that asinine comment, mh. care to try? Or are you just admitting you make things up for the fun of it, throw it out there and run away?

  55. Monkeyhawk
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    While I’m sure you’re offended I don’t hang on every word you post in this forums, “Raptor,” I was off on another thread.

    I pretty much presented my case in the post you responded to.

    Perhaps you should go back and read it.

    Do you want a surgeon who doesn’t believe in evolution, “Raptor?”

    I don’t.

    Do you want your kids to learn the concept of Pi from First Kings 7:23 which tells us the alter font of Solomon’s Temple was ten cubits across and thirty cubits in diameter?

    I don’t.

    Then again, bible literalists such as “Nathaniel” tell us, “Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean literally taking ever word literally.”

    Hell, that’s not rejecting education, that’s full-tilt-boogie embracing ignorance.

    That happens a lot with you CONs.

    How old is the universe, “Raptor?”

  56. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    School vouchers.

    Also, Horowitz’s group that harasses professors for simply telling students what their field believes.

  57. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    uh…mh….don’t flatter yourself. I couldn’t care what you do, where or how. I am just looking for some kind of backup on your ridiculous comment..

    “cons hate education”. Simple request…prove it. You made a universal accusation…prove it.

  58. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    uh..capn…care to do some more mind reading today and tell me what I wish for today? go for it….your mind reading attempt on Friday was way off, care to try again?

    you and your ridiculous comments are becomming hilarious…

  59. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Do you want a surgeon who doesn’t believe in evolution, “Raptor?”

    I don’t.

    —————–

    Depends on what you mean by “evolution” Monkey. For instance, I wouldn’t want one who would deny that bacteria change (evolve) to develop a resistance to antibiotics. That is basic science. But if you mean one who doesn’t believe in common descent, then if you ever had surgery, there is good chance you had one.

  60. CapnAmerica
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Correction–Raptor doesn’t wish that Obama’s approval ratings go as low as Bush’s.

    He hopes they stay near 60 percent where they are now.

    Thank you for your support, Raptor.

    I apologize for the error.

  61. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    “He hopes they stay near 60 percent where they are now.”

    and yet capn upthread claims:

    “Telling me what I want when I don’t want that doesn’t help your argument any.”

    capn…do you even READ what you write?

    you are a cosmic joke, capn…you know that?

  62. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Monkeyhawk
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    I can’t think of a better investment of taxpayers’

    money than education.

    But CONs hate education.

    They grow up bullying the nerds, demeaning academic achievement, and resenting the boss and blame all that book-learnin’.

    —————

    Monkey, if you have a college degree, it just has to be a BS.

  63. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    btw, “capn”…in answer to your earlier question, I have had surgery more than once, and never bothered to wonder about the beliefs/background of the surgeon. You see, unlike you, I don’t pigeonhole people based on one or two beliefs. Normally, I like to think that everyone has a few redeeming qualities.

    Of course, in your case, I will make an exception.

  64. Monkeyhawk
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    “outlander” well, “comes out” with –

    “I wouldn’t want one who would deny that bacteria change (evolve) to develop a resistance to antibiotics. That is basic science. But if you mean one who doesn’t believe in common descent, then if you ever had surgery, there is good chance you had one.”

    That would involve the tonsillectomy I got when I was 6 years old. No surgery since then. So obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    (I’m stunned.)

    Next time you visit you physician ask his or her opinion of God creating man by shaping dirt and God-spit. Or how woman was created from Adam’s rib.

    Then get back to me.

  65. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    ooops..got confused. I meant to answer mh’s silly question about beliefs of surgeons. My error, “capn”.

  66. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Next time you visit you physician ask his or her opinion of God creating man by shaping dirt and God-spit. Or how woman was created from Adam’s rib.

    Then get back to me.

    ————–

    Well Monkey, there is quite a span between the Genesis story and the claim that life developed spontaneously from non-organic material then just evolved into higher forms. But both require a lot of faith and neither can be proven. And between the extremes, there is ID which I think is a plausible idea compatible with the science and Christianity modified to mesh with scientific speculation on origins, which I think is a cop out.

    Regarding my doc, I don’t have to ask him. He is a man of faith. And he was Kansas Family Practice Physician of the Year a few years back.

  67. outlander
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Monkeyhawk
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    “outlander” well, “comes out” with –

    “I wouldn’t want one who would deny that bacteria change (evolve) to develop a resistance to antibiotics. That is basic science. But if you mean one who doesn’t believe in common descent, then if you ever had surgery, there is good chance you had one.”

    That would involve the tonsillectomy I got when I was 6 years old. No surgery since then. So obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    (I’m stunned.)

    —————

    Well surprise. You make no sense. Are you having a medical emergency, and can I help?

  68. Raptor
    Posted June 28, 2009 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    mh…i seem to have missed your backup to your ridiculous generalization of ‘cons hate education’. can’t prove it, can you?

    of course not…simply because it is not true. But..you claimed it..let’s see some proof.

  69. JimJohnson
    Posted June 29, 2009 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    I seem to recall that Bush and the Republican Majority Congress passed:

    1. The Largest Education Budget in History.
    2. The Largest INCREASE in the Education Budget in History.

    Ya, Republicans must hate education….