Considering that Sedgwick County voters approved a downtown arena nearly five years ago, nobody would say that the process has been speedy from start to finish. But it was surprising to learn last week that Dondlinger and Sons might have the Intrust Bank Arena finished by Nov. 1 rather than the contractual date of Jan. 22. How often do multimillion-dollar construction projects come in ahead of schedule? Anticipation was further stoked by recent announcements about the arena leasing club seats, booking the Class 6A and 5A wrestling tournaments for February, and bidding to host first- and second-round games in the 2011, 2012 or 2013 NCAA Tournament. Pretty soon, those who’ve long dreamed of a downtown arena will be able to take their seats in one.
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44 Comments
As soon as the unwanted, white elephant Intrust arena is finished, it should be chained shut and wrapped in concertina wire to keep out intruders. Then a committee should be assembled to determine alternative viable uses for the building.
For starter suggestions, an expanded county jail, a reservoir for water for dry spells, a new dog pound, indoor parking garage for the eventual AMTRAK station that might be located in Wichita’s Union Station next door, new digs for the homeless with snaks, etc.
The battle over finishing the building early is over which taxpayers are going to pay the humongous utility bills, glass breakage and audience safety insurance costs, Zambonie mechanics expenses, ice making refrigeration costs, arena seating cleaning bills, etc.
I’ll be interested to see what ticket prices are when this thing opens.
“XXX” –
Who cares about the price if they get
“The Texas Chainsaw Massacre…ON ICE!”?
Is there indoor soccer still being played.
Wichita loved indoor soccer. A small-time sport for a small-time town.
Maybe an indoor-lacrosse team.
International Overhand Bowling.
Arena golf.
Major League Baby Seal-Bashing! (the Zamboni could come out and turn the ice a tasteful pink between rounds)
I’m interested in the new building’s first sell-out.
Wonder what it’ll be?
Lee Greenwood’s “Medley of My Hit” tour?
Peter Popoff’s latest come-back tour?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxqRN5vjDHQ&feature=related
We could lease it to the City of New Orleans during hurricane season as temporary shelter. :)
Sorry, you are too far away to drive to watch KU win.
Or any other team for that matter.
Dreamers.
Club seats at $1,100.oo per/seat and you have to buy 2 yeara worth = $2,200.00. If you but 4 seats you get a parking place just out side the club seat doors. If you don’t buy four you might have to park 6 or more blocks away and walk. Walk 6 blocks for your $1,1oo a year. Nose bleed seats are going toi cost over $50.00. Anyone want to bet on them getting a full house?
It will be nice to eventually watch some Div. I NCAA college basketball games there. Especially when it’s round 1 and 2 of the NCAA Tournament. That will be pretty cool. Still quite a ways away.
“Div. I NCAA college basketball games there”
Dreamers have mountains they will climb
There are dreamers who don’t believe in time
Only dreamers have worlds where they can fly far away.
Certain dreamers have kingdoms they will build,
Filled with treasures and dragons to be killed
Only dreamers have wings with which to fly far away.
Some people dream of being rich,
While others dream of being tall
And there are people who don’t dream at all.
Dreamers have shooting stars they chase,
There are others with nightmares they must face.
Sometimes dreamers are forced to leave their dreams far away.
And there are people who don’t dream at all.
Sometimes you need to take the time
To find treasures and mountains we can climb.
And maybe we dream to change the way that we feel,
‘Cause to dreamers the real world can be unreal.
Ah the play thing that the people had to pay for for the rich is nearly done. I’ll never go there.
Imagine, Eventually some out of towners, might be able to come and visit Wichita, to watch some games in the first and second round of the NCAA tournament, and when their done, they can drive south a few miles, and stay at a world class Casino Hotel and Resort. Now all we need is some kind of a landmark building twice the height of the Epic Center. It’s sad when Cities like Des Moines, and Overland Park which are smaller cities have taller buildings than we do. The epic center is pretty boring.
Imagine, Eventually some out of towners, might be able to come and visit Wichita, to watch some games in the first and second round of the NCAA tournament, and when their done, they can drive south a few miles, and stay at a world class Casino Hotel and Resort. Now all we need is some kind of a landmark building twice the height of the Epic Center. It’s sad when Cities like Des Moines, and Overland Park which are smaller cities have taller buildings than we do. The epic center is pretty boring to look at, and really unimpressive.
double post, whoops
Major League Baby Seal-Bashing! (the Zamboni could come out and turn the ice a tasteful pink between rounds)-Monkeyhawk
===================================
Nah, I see that for free while polar bear hunting in Canada.
One more time: entertainment math for the reality-impaired.
PROMOTERS set final ticket prices, not venues. A venue may impose a “facility fee” or other charges in their contract with promoters/presenters that will be passed on to the ticket purchaser. Sometimes those charges are listed on the face of the ticket and other times they are built into the seat price. Either way, those fees go to the venue and not the promoter. Based on comments I’ve read in various article comments, I’d say Wichitans complain about extra fees only when they see them broken out as line items on a ticket or in an advert.
Some fees you never see listed: box office charges of X amount per ticket, plus $X00/day for each day tickets are on sale… Facility clean up charges for the beer, nachos, and other crap people throw on the floor or in the stands. Just cleaning 15,000 seats takes a crew of 8 people about 8 hours (at 15 seconds per seat)…
JWink, normally we’re on the same page…but this time your assumption that taxpayers will be footing the bill for “the humongous utility bills, glass breakage and audience safety insurance costs, Zambonie mechanics expenses, ice making refrigeration costs, arena seating cleaning bills, etc” is simply wrong. Those costs are initially borne by the very private management company (SMG) and reflected in the rental/lease charges to promoters/presenters.
VENUES do not book the entertainment unless they are the sole or majority promoter/presenter of that show. In most cases the venue is simply the landlord, although SGCO has co-promoted shows at the Kansas Coliseum and was a co-pro (along with Music Theatre of Wichita) on the Dora the Explorer show at Century II a couple of years ago. Hartman Arena is aggressively co-promoting shows in it’s facility, and since SMG is a private manager they will be free to do so as well, but the willingness to that largely hinges on the perceived profitability of a production.
My personal feelings (as someone who makes his living working in entertainment & corporate presentation, among other things) are that this was the wrong building in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. That said, it’s here and nearly done. We should be looking at what it takes to get Wichitans to SUPPORT the things they say they want. To me, the most frustrating thing to hear is “there’s nothing to do in Wichita” after spending 3 or 4 days with almost no sleep, building, operating, and loading out multiple shows. I guess that when presented with choices, Wichitans do *nothing* and when not given a choice they complain there’s nothing to do. Oy.
The single thing that most bothers me about this was the way it was sold to the public..initially saying it would include parking accomodations. Now? Looks like the county lied to us to get it passed.
The Kansas Coliseum and the Hartman arena both have ample parking lots–but the downtown arena? Nope..they are still trying to locate parking.
@ Monkey… Baby seals? Count me IN! :LOL:
Lee Greenwood? He’s written a number of hit songs, but only his fan club members can name more than “that one.”
On the budget most Wichitans think of, we’ll have to skip the Texas Chainsaw Massacre on Ice, and field the Wichita Weedwacker Massacre on Slush…. Oh, the humanity!!! Who knows, maybe that will be the one “sport” our community will support. If not, cue the baby seals… or consider renting the arena for public executions and gladiator spectacles.
Ooops, forget the gladiators. The last few WWE events here have fallen short on ticket sales and thousands of seats had to be covered in black cloth so as to not be seen empty on TV.
LOOM: (1) Come into view indistinctly, often threateningly (2) Hang over, as of something threatening, dark, or menacing.
The arena “looms.” How apropos.
“Frank_Lingo” –
Is there a web site that caters to people in your line of work?
With stuff like shows that are developing tours, which acts are drawing well and which are doing the Spinal Tap route?
I think that’d be interesting.
Club seats at $1,100.oo per/seat and you have to buy 2 yeara worth = $2,200.00. If you but 4 seats you get a parking place just out side the club seat doors. If you don’t buy four you might have to park 6 or more blocks away and walk. Walk 6 blocks for your $1,1oo a year. Nose bleed seats are going toi cost over $50.00. Anyone want to bet on them getting a full house?
*****
As predicted, the sales tax to fund this White Elephant were imposed upon the poor and middle-class so that the rich could have gov’t funded entertainment.
The CON creed, “socialize the costs, privatize the profits.”
BTW, did anybody see in today’s Eagle, that Pat “Old Rubberstamp” Roberts wants to pass a bill so that the Federal gov’t has to pay to relocate a Kansas town built over lead waste along the OK border?
Yup.
Don’t make the people pay who did the damage and profitted from the damage. Make the taxpayers pay for a private company’s despoiling the environment.
“Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.”
Thank God the city council et al. didn’t pass a sales tax to build a homeless shelter or something for the poor . . . that would be, you know, WELFARE.
But taxes to help the rich?
Business as usual.
uh, capn…you might want to go back to grade school civics class. the arena was builty by the COUNTY, not City. They are two separate governmental entities.
Anyone saying Hartman Arena has ample parking has never been there for a sold out event.
All the haters of the IBA can keep posting and I will keep laughing at your comments. You all are fools. You are lazy, cause you don’t want to walk 6 blocks. You all can stay away, that way I have better seats for the shows I want to see.
You all forget you want people walking in DT Wichita to the IBA, so they will stop at the bars and restaurants that will surround the area around the IBA. But most of you probably have never been to OKC, KC, Denver, Omaha or Des Moines for a show and seen how they have done their downtowns. Damn CAVE people…..
Thanks for that distinction without a difference, Raptor.
jd….you might want to re-read some of the comments above before accusing everyone you disagree with as being a fool. For example, my complaint is how the voters were lied to in order to get the votes. The initial package included parking, then in the old bait and switch routine, once it passed, the parking was an ‘ooops, my bad’.
This has nothing to do with other cities or distance of walking. It has to do with a reprehensible LIE to the voters.
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CapnAmerica
Posted June 28, 2009 at 1:08 pm | Permalink
Thanks for that distinction without a difference, Raptor.
—————
Yeah, you know Capn, like Wichita and Derby are cities – both separate entities. Then there is that county thing which holds the rest of the stuff.
ahh, Reg…facts and accuracy are obviously not important to some people here.
CapnAmerica,
I don’t understand how this is a rich vs poor or a Republican vs Democrat or a Liberal vs Conservative issue at all?
I was a big opponent to the downtown arena as were the College Republicans at that time.
From my experience opposing the arena it was more of a sports fans vs people who thought it was a waste of money type thing.
Even the vote was basically 51 to 49 in favor.
This is one of many Conservatives who opposed this arena.
Even amoung my friends the factor dividing us was the sports fans vs everyone else.
Basically all the guys who liked sports were in favor of it and everyone else wasn’t.
That was the biggest dividing factor.
So, I am curious why people like BlueJay and CapnAmerica think this is some rich vs poor issue?
Care to explain?
From an article dated Sat, Jun. 06, 2009:
“Wichita State and the Greater Wichita Area Sports Commission are among the groups partnering on a bid for first- and second-round games in 2011, 2012 or 2013 at Intrust Bank Arena.
Bids were due Thursday. Sites will be awarded in September.
Minimum seating requirements for the first weekend of games is 12,500. Intrust Bank Arena, scheduled to open in January, will seat around 15,000 for basketball, Hanson said.”
http://www.kansas.com/240/story/841197.html
Does anyone know the seating capacity of other venues that are bidding? I don’t know if its valid, can’t even remember where I heard that the seating capacity of IBA was less than most places where first and second round games are played. It exceeds the minimum required according to above. Anyone know?
One of the lessons I remember from the days of the Wichita Wings was how — despite it was soccer — a Wichita team and clubs from New York and Chicago, etc., were actually playing in Wichita!
It’s hard to measure the power of being a “big league” team, but it’s worked for backwater towns such as Charlotte, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Sacramento. (It’s like the NBA goes to towns Greyhound doesn’t.)
But among the facts of the matter, it was far too expensive for visiting teams to fly into Wichita to play the Wings. Too complicated, too. With connecting flights on puddle-jumpers.
The Kansas Colosseum sells out at what? 10,000? Just how many acts will put an additional 5,000 butts in the new arena’s seats?
Maybe people who study that sort of stuff really believe the Field of Dreams mantra: “If you build it they will come.”
I have my doubts. Serious doubts.
The only thing that makes me reticent about calling the arena a “white elephant” is the general political leanings of CONs who oppose it, five years after the issue was decided.
In honor of Stonewall Day, I’m inclined to borrow a bit from the message of gay rights and gender equality activists:
It’s here… get used to it.
Perfect place for the next Republican National Convention.
Or in an OKC mega church. I’m sure some of those hold as many people as will this project.
Yes and I’ll avoid the area like the plague and so will so many other out of towners.
Speaking of which, I MAY not be an out of towner for very much longer. Stay tuned.
Nathan asks, So, I am curious why people like BlueJay and CapnAmerica think this is some rich vs poor issue?
Because, Nathan, people who can’t afford to buy tickets were taxed 2 percent on all sales in Sedgwick County for several years so that the Koch family can have box seats.
I was taxed 200 dollars when I bought my truck from Davis Moore for instance, even though I’ll never go to a thing at the arena, just on principle.
The wealthy who will make greatest use of the arena are not paying what they should for it . . . the taxpayers are paying for it.
Get it now?
If it were really a good idea, private investors would have funded it. But as it turns out, private investors will only make money on it, the taxpayers funded it and took all the risk.
Privatize profit, socialize costs.
CapnAmerica,
Oh, I agree 100%. If it was such a good idea then pivate investors would have funded it.
However, it was the tax payers who voted for it. I didn’t.
51% of the people who voted for it are not “rich” either. Most of them are all probably sports enthusiasts who thought building it would be their dream come true of seeing bigger local sporting events.
This was not and is not some rich vs poor issue. It was the mindless mass supporting an arena.
Nevermind that rich people do pay their fair share because everything they spend their money on they paid. Since they are rich, they are spending more money and thus paying more.
The Capn is budgeting the money he would spend on arena tickets for ample amounts of marijuana and Wild Turkey or perhaps a quart or two of Smirnoff vodka.
Seriously Regular, was this a thread we really needed a bashing on? Or did you just feel froggy?
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Political_mama
Posted June 29, 2009 at 12:18 am | Permalink
Seriously Regular, was this a thread we really needed a bashing on? Or did you just feel froggy?
———————
Ribbet
mmmmmmmmmmm marijuana, mmmmmmmmmmmm
Maybe Sedgwick County should decriminalize marijuana to an extent, or just tolerate it better and charge people 20 dollars a month in fines for possession given out as a citation, that dosen’t affect your permanent record.
That way, the county can save money, by not booking people to jail on something that shouldn’t be illegal in the first place. Plus they could also make money off of it, by creating a loophole in the law, where if someone wants to legally possess it, wink wink, you are required to go to the court house every month and pay a fine in the form of a citation, and issue a receipt card that’s dated and signed by an official, and a person must be the minimum age of 25.
If somebody is caught in possession of Marijuana, and they don’t have a receipt card or proof that they’ve paid a citation for that month, then they should stiffen the penalty, and require them to pay 500 dollars, instead of the monthly 20 dollars.
Maybe also make some specific provisions that prohibit any person from possessing more than an ounce at a time, or they hand out a real citation, and book you downtown into a holding cell for a few days, set a court date, make you enter Na or drug rehab meetings, enter you on a short probation period, require extensive community service, along with periodic UA’s. Would be a lot cheaper, than lets say, throwing somebody in jail for an extended period of time.
This could only benefit the City. Would it make the City drug dealers. No. Because the City wouldn’t be dealing any drugs. It would just be a very mild form of punishment, while not ruining people’s lives over a fairly benign substance. It would be like a tolerance program, that the City could could exercise and make money off of. Legally. Instead of losing money, like they are now.
The state feds, or national feds, wouldn’t care. Their only interest is in, busting drug dealers, or grow operations. They have no interest in busting individuals for possession. By the book, it would still technically be illegal, it would just be tolerated instead, and the county or city could make money off of it. So it would a local law, that the state couldn’t touch.
I bet the City or County could make a few million dollars off a program like that a year. Hell, they may even set an example for the rest of the nation to follow.
Maybe I should write a letter to the City council and the County Commission. Just give Credit to Barnie from Weblog on the news. Your welcome. And kick me a nice little .5 % bonus every year from the millions of dollars of profits the City will probably be making off my idea. I could use that money to invest in a greenhouse skyscraper. That will allow me and an investment group to lease floor space to farmers, So they can grow food locally, and sell it to the community at discount prices, since the food wouldn’t have to be shipped all over the country. Someone throw me a bone here. Imagine tropical fruits being sold in the dead of winter. Fresh blueberries year round.
I’ve got some designs drawn up for the structure, based on some of natures very own designs. Wichita could be revolutionary, in building the first fully self sustainable greenhouse skyscraper in the world that could produce food, and create excess energy to sell.
Serious inquires only, I’ve got quite a few more ideas, and can come up with endless more I’m sure. Just copy this, and save it. It’s my consent for the Wichita Eagle to give out my email address or any personal information I have registered on this sites account.
This is time stamped. These are my original ideas, though they aren’t patented, I can and will use this article as proof of intellectual property, if a person or persons in Sedgwick County profit in the future from my ideas without giving due credit.
I’m pro arena and remain such.
I do think with the economy as it is locally, nationally and worldwide you couldn’t have a worse time to open it unfortunately.
There don’t seem to be many if any big name current acts (the $100 and north a ticket types) on tour right now.
The idea of getting a NCAA basketball regional in town again will be great exposure for the city.
Anything else including minor league hockey, state wrastling, etc. is going to be small potato’s crowd wise.
The proof in the pudding will be do we get the same events OKC and KC does and/or do we trump them and get events they don’t.
NCAA basketball? High school wrestling tournaments (and, in the interests of full disclosure, I’m a ex-wrestler and coach, so I love going to these events)?
All well and good. But it’s about priorities, people. Given Wichita’s needs, was this the wisest use of a quarter billion dollars of taxpayer money? Really?
P-lease.
What else could we have done with a quarter billion dollars? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Of course, it’ll make a great gun show venue; perhaps we can give Tulsa’s show a run for its money (that ought to light up a few posters!).
I don’t know if I’ll go, or not. Like anything else, that’s a decision I’ll make evaluating the costs vs. the benefits. It would have been nice, however, for gov’t to do the same.
hey GMC, just a slight correct, the arena has cost us over a 1/2 BILLION BUCKS! Over 300 for the Arena and its site, another 100 Million in roads, drainage, utilities and beautification than another 100 Million in expansion of other roads downtown like Washington and Waterman.
The city/County will end up spending another 100 – 300 million in re-doing the rest of the roads around downtown to eliminate one way streets, street parking and screwing up the rest of the roads in downtown…
Oh, than don’t forget a few hundred million that they will spend over the next few years building parking garages around the arena in trying to make it successful, than the hundreds of millions spend to keep the doors open…
I’ve seen it written here that some folks don’t like that they had to pay 2% on sales tax to pay for the arena that is “only for the rich” and that they shouldn’t have to pay any because they won’t use it. First off to figure that only the rich will use it is ridiculous it has the potential to play a huge role in the city. Mostly though, I find it a bit interesting that we complain about being taxed for something we may not use. Personally I do not collect any medicaid or food stamps though if I were smarter I probably would since I get paid jack.. anyway, just because I don’t use them doesn’t mean I should get out of paying for them does it. That’s how a tax works within democracy – we have a vote, it passes, we all contribute. Sorry man, but if you want it one way you have to be ready to step up even if you don’t like. Or is this your world and we’re all just living in it?