The more religious Americans are, the more likely they are to justify torture, according to a new Pew Research Center poll. Huh? Of those surveyed who attend religious services at least weekly, 54 percent said that torture can often or sometimes be justified, compared with 42 percent of those who rarely or never attend religious services. White evangelical Protestants led the way, with 62 percent saying that torture can be justified.
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581 Comments
When you have a religion that focuses on the glee you’ll experience knowing people will be tortured for eternity it must numb you to compassion. Fundies just hate everyone who isn’t in their little cult.
I can’t answer the thread’s question, but when Jesus returns, I bet Pontius Pilate will look nervous.
Is it the fundies love torture so much because they thought Jesus liked it? I’m guessing that if it was good enough for Jesus then it’s good enough for everyone. You might as well have a lot of saviors who died for our sins, like those tortured and killed by the American military and CIA.
They must have taken this poll in the same churches that promote the “Prosperity Gospel”.
“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” -Matthew 5:44
Roman Centurion –
“Hey, mister. Do ya mind crossing your legs? We just have one nail left.”
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/226994/may-07-2009/clasp-your-hands-say-yahweh
Not all that surprising CONs don’t know Colbert is kidding.
This is pretty much what Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were doing 20 years ago.
Fundies don’t just like to torture, they love to kill as well.
http://christianpwnage101.blogspot.com/2009/05/are-us-forces-trying-to-convert-afghans.html
The only question that counts is what would the new messiah do.
What Would Barack Do? (WWBD)
“American_Way” witnesses –
“The only question that counts is… What Would Barack Do? (WWBD)”
Probably encourage dijon mustard at condiment bars. Y’know, “SOCIALISM!!!!
The Catholics invented torture. The Protestants perfected it. The Republican Party encourages it.
And dip whiz one post up worries about a President ordering a burger with mustard on it. Home schooled or glued to Faux Noise?
Go figure, another liar. Is there now any question as to why they dropped the criminal charges against the lawyers?
Pelosi Briefed in 2002 About Enhanced Interrogation Methods
An intelligence report contradicts a statement by House Speaker Pelosi last month that she was never told that waterboarding or other enhanced interrogation techniques were being used on terrorism suspects.
Neither was Jesus a push-over. He threw those that were desecrating His Father’s house out, and told his disciples to buy a sword for when he would no longer be with them.
Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. — Luke 22
If a greater good can be accomplished, that is more lives saved and protected, then putting someone through the discomfort of ‘water boarding’ is justified.
Honestly ask yourselves, if you are even capable, if you would prefer someone be water boarded if would save someones life, your life, your loved one’s life.
Anyone saying no is a liar or is basing their answer on it only happening to someone else, which says what about you.
Would it be better to not water board and then after a terrorist tragedy go to war and bomb the hell out of them? Dumb, if your answer is yes!!!
Water boarding doesn’t even do lasting physical harm.
I’m not saying it should be done lightly, but our government has a fiduciary responsibility to protect it’s citizens, that more than any other function, and to simply cause an enemy discomfort to save our lives is certainly okay by me, in fact I would feel anger, contempt for and resent those that wouldn’t.
What did you expect, they’re Christians!
wow… hate is on a roll this morning. Christians, keep praying for these and remember…
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.
With all due respect, I suspect the correlation has more to do with blind submission to authority (and if the authority happens to a conservative preacher, then expect all kindsa weird mandates).
After all, it requires blind submission to authority to believe that (1)waterboarding isn’t torture (2)it’s a useful and necessary interrogation technique and (3)everyone the US has kidnapped and tortured for years without a hearing is a terrorist who had it coming.
Indeed, to buy all of that, belief in miracles would be mandatory.
Rage, ya do what ya got’a do to protect the people you love and are responsible to.
I’ve taken a vow of commitment to it to the best of my ability.
Water boarding is of course torture, but does NO lasting physical harm, it is a proven successful technique, absolutely proven. To argue otherwise is to argue against documented fact, an unfortunate lib trait.
A pretty good discussion at gotquestions.org regarding the issue. They make an important distinction between individual acts and governmental policy. And they arrive at the correct answer. Which is, there are no easy answers. But that doesn’t stop the ever irritating Brownlee from being simplistic.
Question: “What does the Bible say about torture?”
Answer: Torture can be defined as “the infliction of intense pain to punish, to coerce, or to derive sadistic pleasure.” Of course, sadism is never appropriate or just, but what about punishment or coercion? Is there ever a time when inflicting pain is justified in order to punish wrongdoing or to obtain a confession? What does the Bible say?
The Bible acknowledges the existence of torture. In a parable, Jesus spoke of a servant who was “turned . . . over to the jailers to be tortured” (Matthew 18:34). Such an allusion seems to indicate that the use of torture was common in the prisons of the day. The Bible also records the stories of many victims of torture: Jesus, Paul and Silas (Acts 16), the prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 20:2; 38:6), and other unnamed saints (Hebrews 11:35). In every case, we see that the godly are the victims of torture, never the perpetrators of torture.
As individuals, we are not to seek revenge. Vengeance belongs only to the Lord (Psalm 94:1; Romans 12:19). Also, as individuals we have no authority to punish society’s wrongdoers or to extract confessions from them. Therefore, as individuals, we can have no license to torture; inflicting intense pain on others is wrong. God alone is able to mete out punishment with perfect justice, and it is His prerogative to make His punishment painful. Demons are aware of a future time of “torture” for themselves (Matthew 8:29). Hell is a place of “torment” and intense agony (Matthew 13:42; Luke 16:23-24). During the Tribulation, torment will be part of the plagues upon evildoers (Revelation 9:5; 11:10). In any of His judgments, God is holy and perfectly fair (Psalm 119:137).
Now we’ll consider the use of torture in relation to governmental policy. We know that God has appointed civil governments and charged them with maintaining justice in this world (Romans 13:1-5). “For [the ruler] is God’s servant to do you good . . . an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer” (verse 4). Elsewhere, God calls judges and magistrates “gods”; that is, their authority to provide justice comes from God Himself (Psalm 82:1-4). If they fail in their duty, they will themselves be judged by the Lord, the Judge of all (verses 7-8).
So government bears the responsibility to protect the good and punish the evil. What methods may it employ in carrying out that responsibility? Beyond the endorsement of capital punishment (Romans 13:4; Genesis 9:6), the Bible does not say. The Bible neither condemns nor condones a government’s use of torture.
Many questions can and should be asked: What specific techniques should be considered “torture”? Where do we draw the line? Is the infliction of any kind of pain inherently wrong? What if there are no permanent physical effects? Is sleep deprivation torture? What about a forced change in diet? Should yelling at a prisoner be considered psychological torture?
May a government, in order to protect its law-abiding citizens, engage in “highly coercive interrogation” (the use of strongly persuasive techniques to obtain tactical information)? What if these techniques do not inflict physical pain?
What if the goal of torture is to prevent further tragedy? What if a prisoner were withholding information that could save the life of an innocent person? What if a hundred lives could be saved? A thousand lives? Should that prisoner be threatened with physical pain until he reveals the information? What, then, if his information is wrong? And what about unlawful enemy combatants who are, legally, not prisoners of war and therefore do not fall under the rules of the Geneva Convention?
These are all questions not addressed in the Bible and that are beyond the scope of this article, but they highlight the need for us to pray “for kings and all those in authority” (1 Timothy 2:2). May our policy makers have the wisdom to distinguish good from evil and to provide true justice.
PRAISE THE LORD!
http://vigirak.com/IMG/jpg/abu%20ghraib%20prisonnier%20mordu%20par%20des%20chiens.jpg
Hmmm.. I wonder why Rage post a torture picture? And then title it if this were done in God’s name? I would say that he is a low life. But that might be too mild.
So the ever cerebral Rage stoops to shock jock crap in order to, I suppose trash Crhstians. who by some stupid poll had two more out of ten think that torture was Ok in some cases than atheists like him.
I can’t deal with such idiocy this morning. I’m out.
Good job Brownlee. Just cost your employer another subscriber (yes paid, your fish wrap is or was delivered daily).
Hmmm.. I wonder why Rage post a torture picture? And then title it if this were done in God’s name? I would say that he is a low life. But that might be too mild.
=============================================
I have no idea but I’d be interested in your opinion as you seem to have given this issue a lot of serious thought.
Is what is being done to that man in the photo in accordance with Biblical principles?
Brownlee is a hate mongering bigot.
Is Pelosi a Christian?
#
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:24 am | Permalink
Good job Brownlee. Just cost your employer another subscriber (yes paid, your fish wrap is or was delivered daily).
=================================================
S’up brother man?
Why would this posting of this thread cause you to cancel your subscription?
Simple:
Those who attend church are smarter than those who do not.
Whom would Jesus torture?
===============================
That fat sow from Wilson Phillips.
Daniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:29 am | Permalink
#
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:24 am | Permalink
Good job Brownlee. Just cost your employer another subscriber (yes paid, your fish wrap is or was delivered daily).
=================================================
S’up brother man?
Why would this posting of this thread cause you to cancel your subscription?
————————————————–
In my opinion the thread title takes/uses the Lord’s name in vain or at least makes a mockery of Him.
I’ve heard this title or phrase thrown around my libs in the past and I know it’s meant to mock me and those that share my faith which is fine. But it’s also taking the Lord’s name in vain. I can’t see supporting a business that would employ someone to publish, post or write mockery like this.
I’ll take the free road but in any social discourse (and we are in a culture war) the only way to make an impact is on the bottom line.
Actually, I can see one basis for correlation the Pew Center found. Those who are less religious tend to be less certain about an afterlife, let alone one where certain preachers are calling the shots.
Those who believe the deserving go to heaven and the undeserving get what they, ahem, deserve, will at least be tempted not to be too concerned about injustices and infliction of pain on strangers in this life.
Those who aren’t certain there is a second life will be more attuned to not screwing things up in the first one.
Actually, I can see one basis for correlation the Pew Center found. Those who are less religious tend to be less certain about an afterlife, let alone one where certain preachers are calling the shots.
Those who believe the deserving go to heaven and the undeserving get what they, ahem, deserve, will at least be tempted not to be too concerned about injustices and infliction of pain on strangers in this life.
Those who aren’t certain there is a second life will be more attuned to not screwing things up in the first one.
Whom would Jesus torture?
===============================
That fat sow from Wilson Phillips.
===============================================
Dammit! You’re gonna make me have to re-think this whole torture thing, aren’t you?
KSGolfnut
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:29 am | Permalink
Simple:
Those who attend church are smarter than those who do not.
—————————————————-
There’s an old quote by a baseball player comparing baseball to church:
“Many attend but few understand.”
Hell.
“Mr_Kia” probably cancels his subscription every time there’s an edgy “Family Circus” cartoon.
Then re-ups so he can cancel it again.
In my opinion the thread title takes/uses the Lord’s name in vain or at least makes a mockery of Him.
I’ve heard this title or phrase thrown around my libs in the past and I know it’s meant to mock me and those that share my faith which is fine. But it’s also taking the Lord’s name in vain. I can’t see supporting a business that would employ someone to publish, post or write mockery like this.
I’ll take the free road but in any social discourse (and we are in a culture war) the only way to make an impact is on the bottom line.
===============================================
Would it have been kosher if Brownleee had titled the post “What Would Jesus Do?” and posted the same information about the poll from the Pew Research Center?
More importantly, what are you going to wrap your fish in from now on?
“Rage” –
I suspect the twice-born find comfort with the belief all their sins are washed away.
It’s the rationalization attempted by Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker….
This is pretty much what Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were doing 20 years ago.
=========================
Ole Jim is still scamming folks out at Table Rock Lake…He’s building a ‘complex’ with old peoples’ money.
I think Tammy is still in the ground.
“outlander” ponders –
“…I wonder why Rage post a torture picture?
Gee, I wonder.
Could it have anything to do with CONs insisting the Shrub Administration did not torture?
Or CONdi Rice asserting that if George WMD Bush says we don’t torture, what we do is not torture?
Or CONs such as the Virgin Prophet “Nathaniel” claiming no one died or was put in danger by American torture?
One picture; a thousand words, and all that, “outlander.”
“So the ever cerebral Rage stoops to shock jock crap in order to, I suppose trash Crhstians”
Because he is a petty weak individual lacking in self-respect and he knows it and simply wants to bring others down to his level.
Disgusting.
Phillip Brownlee is a editorial writer not a reporter but still represents the worst of what’s wrong with papers today and why they are failing.
“Boxlock20″ seems really upset that CONs frequently have their noses stuck in their own… droppings.
I think you are wrong Monkey. Rage feels strongly about the issue. In typical lib fashion, he posted it out of emotion when his reason failed him. But that photo adds nothing to this discussion. Nor was anything like what we see in the photo ver condoned, nor should it be. It’s unrelated ugliness used as a weapon when words failed.
Rage posts a shock picture yet we know nothing about what is going on, or if it has anything to do with torture, or was approved, or anything else for that matter.
Yet, if it was torture (?), better that or the deaths of one or more of your fellow troops. That is an easy question to answer for hypocrites like Rage or Phillip Brownlee.
And the Monkey eats his!
Would it have been kosher if Brownleee had titled the post “What Would Jesus Do?” and posted the same information about the poll from the Pew Research Center?
More importantly, what are you going to wrap your fish in from now on?
—————————————————-
That’s a good question. Personally I feel if you aren’t a believer and you use the Lord’s name in any way, your making a mockery of Him. Because you don’t believe in Him.
A mockery however and using in the same realm as Torture are two different things. The entire torture debate at this point with regards to practices during the last administration are still debatable. It’s not that one side condone’s torture. It’s a debate on what constitutes it.
By using the term “torture” Brownlee not only includes his spineless definition of the word but also more serious actions which I would consider torture and then associates those with my personal Lord and Savior.
As far as your second question, I guess the West Side Story will have to make it into the house for other uses instead of going straight to the trash can.
“Those who attend church are smarter than those who do not.”
Hardly.
I don’t believe that Jesus, if he ever existed, would torture anyone. His faithful though, are a different matter.
They seem to have a love for the infliction of pain on others and the embrace of it for themselves.
They seem to have a love for the infliction of pain on others and the embrace of it for themselves.
===================================
That statement describes you perfectly, BlueJay.
Pelosi knew about advanced interrogation techniques before she didn’t
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was briefed in September 2002 on the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, according to a report prepared by the Director of National Intelligence’s office and obtained by FOX News.
The report seems to contradict a statement by Pelosi last month that she was never told that waterboarding or other enhanced interrogation techniques were being used on terrorism suspects.
Fox News
I suppose we should just shoot the terrorist in the face on the battle field and Hope for the best.
The Jesus that most of you cons believe in is best described in Al Franken’s “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them” in a chapter called “Supply Side Jesus”.
If we kill them on the battle field we won’t have to take them to a camp, ask them questions to get intel, and them let them go so they can kill our troops.
The Jesus that most of you cons believe in is best described in Al Franken’s “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them” in a chapter called “Supply Side Jesus”.
===========================================
That sounds like intolerant Hate Speech, BlueJay.
The Jesus that most of you cons believe in is best described in Senator Al Franken’s “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them” in a chapter called “Supply Side Jesus”.
===============================================
Fixed that for you.
Mr_Kia,
I think you have an overly broad definition of mockery.
That’s funny about the West Side Story. I happened to be out in the yard a while back when the kid delivering it came by. I called him over and asked him what his address was.
He gave me a funny look and asked why I wanted to know.
I told him that I wanted to return the favor and come by his house and throw trash in his driveway.
O.K. Mr runny poo: Christian Evangelists and some Republicans think there is a debate on what constitutes torture; the rest of the world knows.
There are, of course, exceptions and many of them.
But by and large, the Christian faith is made up of people who think that cruelty is compassion, suffering is salvation, and sanctimony a sacrament.
I don’t know Jesus. Jesus was not is not a friend of mine. But my take of what I know OF him is most Christians are not Jesus.
Even if they think that they are.
ahahahaha!
Let’s sit back and watch the Leftist Libs make fools of themselves.
Let’s sit back and watch the Leftist Libs make fools of themselves.
============================
(unpacking my lawn chair)
beber
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:19 am | Permalink
O.K. Mr runny poo: Christian Evangelists and some Republicans think there is a debate on what constitutes torture; the rest of the world knows.
—————————————————-
I don’t know beber.
How many things do you “support” (not necessarily practice but don’t find a problem with, think should not be illegal) which are currently illegal?
BlueJay
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:19 am | Permalink
Christians are not Jesus.
Even if they think that they are.
—————————————————-
That would actually be a cult (i.e. Jim Jones, Peoples Temple – a huge hit with socialist libs by the way!).
(unpacking my lawn chair)
Pass me a beer bro.
#
SolDevVB
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:28 am | Permalink
(unpacking my lawn chair)
Pass me a beer bro.
—————————–
Tosses a slightly shaken Keystone Light…
Tosses a slightly shaken Keystone Light…
Lets it fly by…
Hey, bro… about that beer/
“I told him that I wanted to return the favor and come by his house and throw trash in his driveway.”—Daniel
Sounds just like something an ass/hole would do.
I bet Sen. Roberts is just a fuming that there’s been another document leaked from the CIA, NOT!
Let’s just ask Roberts what congress knew about torture, and when did they know it? I’m sure he could provide some insights.
Thanks the correction Daniel and apologies to SENATOR Al Franken.
Yeah, some bible bomber hit my neighborhood awhile back.
There were little orange bibles all OVER the place!
Since this was not asked for and SINCE most of the bibles ended up slowly becoming a part of the soaked landscape, I wonder that the bombers are not charged with littering.
Who would Jesus torture ??
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it .. from whose presence earth and heaven fled away .. and no place was found for them . . . And I saw the dead .. the great and the small .. standing before the throne .. and books were opened .. and another book was opened .. which is the book of life .. and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books .. according to their deeds . . . And the sea gave up the dead which were in it .. and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them .. and they were judged .. every one of them according to their deeds . . . Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire . . . . This is the second death .. the lake of fire . . . And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life .. he was thrown into the lake of fire . . . . Revelation 20
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day .. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance .. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare . . . II Peter 3
— – - – - – - – - – - – - — — – - – - – - – - – - – - — — – - – - – - – - – - – - —
God sends no-one to Hell .. we run there ourselves
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:01 am | Permalink
Rage, ya do what ya got’a do to protect the people you love and are responsible to.
I’ve taken a vow of commitment to it to the best of my ability.
Water boarding is of course torture, but does NO lasting physical harm, it is a proven successful technique, absolutely proven. To argue otherwise is to argue against documented fact, an unfortunate lib trait.
-
Documented fact – cite source please – and don’t cite Dick Cheney.
If waterboarding works so well, then why do it 283 times on one guy and 83 on the other guy? If waterboarding works so well – wouldn’t once do it?
Go peddle your fake documentation and fake patriotism somewhere else.
dadman – and some are pushed there by over zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonius hypocrit Christians!
Anyone smart enough to READ the MEMOs knows that the US didn’t torture.
The memos authorized scare tactics…nothing more.
In fact, by releasing them, Pres. Obama has handed the terrorists a wonderful recruiting tool. Now they know that we won’t hurt them. If they can handle caterpillars and wet rags, they’ll be fine.
It’s just too bad that so many reporters and Democrats can’t read…
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
dadman – and some are pushed there by over zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonius hypocrit Christians!
—————————————————-
Cry me a freaking river.
So you’ll go to church if there are no hypocrites? Because you’ll be the only one there as you must be the only perfect one among us.
Just look at all the ‘Religous’ folks clammoring on the thread to defend torture. It has to be a Christian value, but not for this Christian.
Mom_of_5
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:48 am | Permalink
Anyone smart enough to READ the MEMOs knows that the US didn’t torture.
The memos authorized scare tactics…nothing more.
In fact, by releasing them, Pres. Obama has handed the terrorists a wonderful recruiting tool. Now they know that we won’t hurt them. If they can handle caterpillars and wet rags, they’ll be fine.
It’s just too bad that so many reporters and Democrats can’t read…
————————————————–
Exactly. Democrats that claim to love America. Claim to have superior intellect and values basically hand the sworn enemy a greater recruiting tool than 9/11.
The leftists / atheists / anti-Christs will always provide themselves an excuse .. sorry .. no excuses
Boxlockie – BTW – Jesus ran the money vendors out of the Temple. I believe all those mega church Evangelical Christian preachers would qualify as money vendors.
When these mega churches started, that’s when the real message of Christianity went out the window. Now the message is money-money-money and me-me-me. And what better way than to hate everyone who is not a part of the cult?
Self-righteous Evangelical Christians are some fo the meanest people on Earth.
I find this most odd.
Jesus was God in the flesh literally, right?
He could have made all the Romans 2 inches tall and turned their flails into flowers and the cross into a jacuzzi. Yet instead, he endured torture and did NOT hit back. Odd to find his faithful embracing and supporting torture. It is not logically consistent.
Oops there I go again. Logic among such people is not to be expected.
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
dadman – and some are pushed there by over zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonius hypocrit Christians!
—————————————————-
Cry me a freaking river.
So you’ll go to church if there are no hypocrites? Because you’ll be the only one there as you must be the only perfect one among us.
==
did I say that Kia? NO, but if you were to actually READ the Bible you claim to love so much – you might just learn something. That, and open your heart to Jesus who can save you from your self.
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:53 am | Permalink
Boxlockie – BTW – Jesus ran the money vendors out of the Temple. I believe all those mega church Evangelical Christian preachers would qualify as money vendors.
When these mega churches started, that’s when the real message of Christianity went out the window. Now the message is money-money-money and me-me-me. And what better way than to hate everyone who is not a part of the cult?
Self-righteous Evangelical Christians are some fo the meanest people on Earth.
————————————————–
Examples please of a mega church, a me-me-me attitude as well as money-money-money…oh and the meanest people on Earth would help too.
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:55 am | Permalink
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
dadman – and some are pushed there by over zealous, self-righteous, sanctimonius hypocrit Christians!
————————————————–
Then site some examples instead of hitting your socialist, liberal, darwanism buzz words used as an excuse for lack of belief in what I find obvious.
“I told him that I wanted to return the favor and come by his house and throw trash in his driveway.”—Daniel
Sounds just like something an ass/hole would do.
============================================
lol…..I’ve been referred to as such on more than one occasion and most likely by far better than you.
BlueJay
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:54 am | Permalink
I find this most odd.
Jesus was God in the flesh literally, right?
He could have made all the Romans 2 inches tall and turned their flails into flowers and the cross into a jacuzzi. Yet instead, he endured torture and did NOT hit back. Odd to find his faithful embracing and supporting torture. It is not logically consistent.
Oops there I go again. Logic among such people is not to be expected.
————————————————–
You seem pretty familiar with Old Testament teachings and laws, so I’m guessing you understand the idea of a Sacrifice, the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sin yes?
dadman
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:52 am | Permalink
The leftists / atheists / anti-Christs will always provide themselves an excuse .. sorry .. no excuses
–
And, let me guess, you will be on the right hand of God gleefully laughing when he throws out those judgments on Judgment Day – right?
Let me ask you – did Jesus spit on the Romans who tortured him and nailed him to the Cross- No. Did Jesus turn to his disciples when he was nailed on the Cross – No. Jesus did turn to the thief to his side and told the thief he would be with him in his Father’s house that day.
Jesus showed compassion and love. Those are two words that are rarely associated with Evangelical Christians today.
Maybe your political party has become your religion and you need to step back and re-examine your priorities. Because this phoney Christian thing just isn’t working for you or the GOP.
“I don’t know beber.
How many things do you “support” (not necessarily practice but don’t find a problem with, think should not be illegal) which are currently illegal?” — stinky pants
I’ll grant you your world view if only you and your fellow travelers live in it. Hint: you won’t like it.
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:02 am | Permalink
Jesus showed compassion and love. Those are two words that are rarely associated with Evangelical Christians today.
—————————————————-
You are truly special as well. Most ridiculous thing I’ve probably ever read on this message board.
If they are rarely associated as you say it is because of the likes of you and yours who don’t look past that Christians are fallen people just like you to the good works done by them home and abroad.
My cross to bear? Having a heart for people like you.
YES – I did say phoney Christian thing. And don’t start with labeling me as anti-Christ, leftist, socialist or whatever label you think is clever.
I graduated from a fundamental Baptist university and I know exactly what the underbelly of the Evangelical Christian movement is – and believe me, it’s not pretty.
Not every Christian is mean – just those that have an inferiority complex and need someone to put down in order for themselves to feel better.
But, I’ll be praying for you and I’ll ask God to help you to see the truth.
beber
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:03 am | Permalink
I’ll grant you your world view if only you and your fellow travelers live in it. Hint: you won’t like it
—————————————————-
I’m pretty sure that sword cuts both ways compadre.
totoinks
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:07 am | Permalink
I graduated from a fundamental Baptist university and I know exactly what the underbelly of the Evangelical Christian movement is – and believe me, it’s not pretty.
—————————————————-
Then enlighten us oh great one. Otherwise your just a lying leftist POS.
“The more religious Americans are, the more likely they are to justify torture, according to a new Pew Research Center poll.”
Really Phillip?
I call BS. The poll has such a small sample that it is pretty much useless when it comes to drawing any meaningful conclusions. In fact the results for all groups was so close that you could draw any conclusion that you wanted.
However, it is a useful thread if you wish to draw attention away from ‘Stretch’ Pelosi and the fact that she was briefed on EIP more than 40 times.
Data from a Pew Research Center survey conducted April 14-21, 2009, among 742 American adults. Other religious groups are not reported due to small sample sizes.
#
Phantom
Posted May 8, 2009 at 9:51 am | Permalink
Just look at all the ‘Religous’ folks clammoring on the thread to defend torture. It has to be a Christian value, but not for this Christian.
———-
I see very little of that Phantom. What I do see is a lot of anti-Christian bigotry.
But I do agree with totolinks to a certain extent when he/she says: “Self-righteous Evangelical Christians are some fo the meanest people on Earth.” Some of them may seem like it. You draw no one to Christ that way. In fact you turn them away.
Remember, you are repping the Most High.
…finds that party and ideology are much better predictors of views on torture than are religion-Pew
““The more religious Americans are, the more likely they are to justify torture, according to a new Pew Research Center poll.”
Based on a long time posting here and reading the views of those who call themselves Christians, I would accept that as an axiom.
Is there ONE evangelical Christian here who will speak out against torture? HERE is your opportunity.
““The more religious Americans are, the more likely they are to justify torture, according to a new Pew Research Center poll.”
===========================
That is not what the poll concluded.
I’ll speak out against torture all day long.
I’ll also speak out that Waterboarding is not all day long. That’s the difference.
I don’t give me any the rest of the world thinks crap either.
I personally don’t care what the UN thinks.
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:22 am | Permalink
I’ll speak out against torture all day long.
I’ll also speak out that Waterboarding is not all day long. That’s the difference.
I don’t give me any the rest of the world thinks crap either.
I personally don’t care what the UN thinks.
===============
I feel the same.
That would be a fail for you Kia.
You don’t get to get away from supporting torture by defining it your own way.
We will mark you as one of the faithful that does in fact support torture.
I’ll pick the world where pot is legal, and you can live in the one in which confessions coerced by torture are admissible in court, Mr. vocal vomit.
“HLP” –
What’s the forecast for tomorrow?
Good flying weather?
What’s your ETA?
Foreign Policy must be brought up here. i thought that someone would step up and say that the reason we get attacked and have to prevent such attacks is because we meddle in other countries affairs.
So bad that we actaully will dictate with aggressive invasions with our military.
We are such an unchristian nation that it make me sick. Anyone trying to pawn off these actions as OK by christians is a liar.
Everyone knows that Jesus was the king of peace and love, not war and hate. Anyone perpetuating this lie needs to be reeducated.
That includes wayward men of the cloth as well.
BlueJay
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:24 am | Permalink
That would be a fail for you Kia.
You don’t get to get away from supporting torture by defining it your own way.
We will mark you as one of the faithful that does in fact support torture.
————————————————–
The morally superior supporter infantcide has ruled. I must accept that.
I do in fact support torture.
You don’t get to get away from supporting torture by defining it your own way.
==============================
Kia may not, but I can.
beber
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:26 am | Permalink
I’ll pick the world where pot is legal, and you can live in the one in which confessions coerced by torture are admissible in court, Mr. vocal vomit.
—————————————————-
Why can’t you argue a point without the use of pre-K nickname F@ck face?
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:26 am | Permalink
The morally superior supporter infantcide*
—————————————————-
That should read supporter of.
I’ve got a meeting and heading to Riverfest for lunch. Any takers?
Why can’t you argue a point without the use of pre-K nickname F@ck face?
==============================================
I think I see what you did there.
Water boarding is of course torture, but does NO lasting physical harm, it is a proven successful technique, absolutely proven. To argue otherwise is to argue against documented fact, an unfortunate lib trait.
In deed it does work! Not only did they confess to being in league with Saddam but also to being in league with the Devil and to being Witches! It has worked very well to getting a confession.
The number of journalists who have voluntarily submitted themselves to waterboarding is greater than the number of terrorists that we’ve waterboarded.
Ha, ha Brownlee, your first mistake is pre-supposing that bush did not run this major decision by his heavenly father beforehand.
So the answer is Jesus would’ve tortured exactly the ones who’ve been tortured! Game, Set, Match!
And, what is the combined number of soakings, or combined number of minutes under the water for all the journalist?
And, how many journalist that’d been waterboarded said it wasn’t any big deal?
#
Heckler
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:39 am | Permalink
The number of journalists who have voluntarily submitted themselves to waterboarding is greater than the number of terrorists that we’ve waterboarded.
=================================================
You just don’t seem to be able to draw a distinction between voluntarily submitting to waterboarding and being waterboarded against one’s will.
It’s just not the same thing if the contexts are not even remotely similar.
Well, since the LIBs do not want water or caterpillars to be thrown on terrorist to collect intel, I suppose we are left with two options:
1. Place the terrorist in the ‘naughty chair’ for five minutes and make them think about what they’ve done.
Or,
2. Shoot them dead on the battle field.
Both of these options leave us Hoping for the best…
It’s one thing to have a friend (that you know won’t hurt you) choking you, so you can experience the sensation, and quite another to have a stranger do the same
Ooops, there are three options..
3. Use a Ouija Board to find out about attack plots.
We will see the split between those who see Jesus as a sword swinging, blood thruster, revenge seeker.
And those who see him as the way and an example of how Christians should strive to be like.
The former allows for the believer to act out their mere mortal impulses and give into human weaknesses.
While the later is one of going beyond those impulses and fighting against the human weaknesses.
It is far easier to not be bounded by morality and principal’s children often dislike such thoughts of being guided by morals and higher principals. Those who see Jesus as a blood thrusting Rambo type of Savior
Find justifications for their own blood lust and excuses the human desire for pure revenge.
writerdog
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:50 am | Permalink
=========================================
I think you have mistaken Jesus for Allah.
1. Place the terrorist in the ‘naughty chair’ for five minutes and make them think about what they’ve done.
==================================================
It’s not a ‘naughty chair’ it’s a ‘comfy chair.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnS49c9KZw8
How’d we ever win the World Wars without a national torture policy is beyond me!
A fourth Anti, we could use the tactics that have been shown to work well that does not involve a violation of the law and our moral high ground. It has even been stated by those who did the interrogations before and after the water boarding. That prior to the water boarding the information turned out more reliable and truthful. While the information gained through water boarding more often turned out false and made up.
A fourth Anti, we could use the tactics that have been shown to work well that does not involve a violation of the law and our moral high ground.
====================================
Such as?
Daniel says -”You just don’t seem to be able to draw a distinction between voluntarily submitting to waterboarding and being waterboarded against one’s will”
I understand the distiniction. You should understand that I do not consider waterboarding to be torture. I believe that it is entirely appropriate for use in the way we used it, on high value targets.
How’d we ever win the World Wars without a national torture policy is beyond me!
==================================
You aren’t very familiar with history, are you?
Bush sure left members of his admin hanging out to dry, when he didn’t issue a pardon covering their butts! Wonder how many feel betrayed.
The sociopaths do not consider waterboarding torture, you’ll never change their minds.
And Anti I think you are trying to confuse Jesus with Attila the Hun. Those using Jesus as a sword wheeling
revenge seeker is no different then Bin Laden using Allah and Mohammad as a justification for killing the young and innocent.
I understand the distiniction. You should understand that I do not consider waterboarding to be torture. I believe that it is entirely appropriate for use in the way we used it, on high value targets.
==================================================
Then what is the point of repeatedly bringing up examples of people being waterboarded voluntarily if there is nothing wrong with doing it?
I think you’re trying to draw a false equivalence between the two actions. Today, it’s journalists and two weeks ago it was US troops undergoing SERE training.
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:59 am | Permalink
A fourth Anti, we could use the tactics that have been shown to work well that does not involve a violation of the law and our moral high ground.
====================================
Such as?
Please, I am curious.
Writerdog,
I would like to see the alternatives to this proven successful technique known as water boarding….Please try to leave out the Christian hate.
When I was a kid, I had an older brother-in-law that used to smoother the kids with pillows until they were kicking an whrithering, then he’d let them up. Just good clean christian fun, no doubt.
Enhanced Coercive Interrogative Compliance Techniques. We don’t condone torture. We condone Doublespeak. ugh, I need to go perform a Lower Bowel Waste Evacuation Maneuver.
Actually water boarding isn’t an accurate description of the method that the CIA uses.
The wet towels prevent co2 exchange and cause build up of same. This causes a ‘panic’ hyperventilation.
Anti, you need to do a little research on approved interrogation techniques (ones that we used to use and don’t involve torture).
Phantom
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:17 am | Permalink
Anti, you need to do a little research on approved interrogation techniques (ones that we used to use and don’t involve torture).
==================================
Maybe you need to sprout a stomach and quit supporting people who’s only goal is to kill Americans and destroy America itself.
This isn’t a pillow fight.
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:00 am | \l “comment-569724″
How’d we ever win the World Wars without a national torture policy is beyond me!
==================================
You aren’t very familiar with history, are you?
I am and there has always been incidents where an individual has used torture and illegal acts on the enemy.
“Black jack” Perishing during the Philippe action to put down the upraising of Moslem extremists captured forty one extremists. He then killed forty of them while the forty first was tied to a stake and force to watch
his comrades being killed one at a time then have pigs blood poured over their bodies then buried with the dead pigs. Perishing then told the forty first to go back to his people and tell them this is their future if they do not stop the upraising. And yes according to all accounts this did work but also caused the military to sight and put a written reprimand in to Perishing otherwise spotless record.
But there is also where the difference lies, never have we the United States of America had a public policy of the use of torture.
But there is also where the difference lies, never have we the United States of America had a public policy of the use of torture.
==================================
I see, you’re upset about the ‘public’ part.
Pigs blood – I like his style. :D
I keep hearing the phrase “moral high ground”. From the left. From people who support abortion any time, anywhere. Obviously we have a different definition of the word “moral”.
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:07 am | Permalink
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:59 am | Permalink
A fourth Anti, we could use the tactics that have been shown to work well that does not involve a violation of the law and our moral high ground.
====================================
Such as?
Please, I am curious.
______________
Drugz!!!!!
Here we go again….
With the way the left has redefined what torture is who can blame people for supporting it?
What we did to 3 terrorists was not torture.
But for the last year now the liberals have been screaming that it is.
So of course, when a poll comes around about “torture” why wouldn’t you say you supported it?
After all, it worked.
Drugz!!!!!
==================
It’s against the Muslim religion.
Remember we MUST cater to them.
How are we supposed to even guess who Jesus would use, Enhanced Coercive Interrogative Compliance Techniques on? Is this a question, as to who he would ECICT back when he was alive, or Today?
Get them creepy terrorists high enough and they’ll tell you anything you want to know. You can’t shut someone up who’s stoned on meth.
Again…
Jesus was the King of Love and Peace.
He told everyone to love their enemy and have tolerance towards others.
Anyone who deviates from these teachings is a liar and is taking advantage of peoples souls and minds.
Even if there were no God and and we are just dust in the wind, there is no better way to live your life than by peace, love, and tolerance.
I am sickened by people who try to make Jesus out to be a vengful man full of wrath.
It’s garbage.
Jesus would make you go to church every Sunday, a torture guaranteed to break down anyone. See Mr. runny poo as an example.
I see the problem here. We need to quit torturing the terrorists as an interrogation method.
Let’s torture them for fun and profit!
“I keep hearing the phrase “moral high ground”. From the left. From people who support abortion any time, anywhere. Obviously we have a different definition of the word “moral”.”
Find one single person in the United States who believes that.
Nevermind that Pelosi even knew about it…
CIA Says Pelosi Was Briefed on Use of ‘Enhanced Interrogations’
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/05/cia_says_pelosi_was_briefed_on.html
Intelligence officials released documents this evening saying that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was briefed in September 2002 about the use of harsh interrogation tactics against al-Qaeda prisoners, seemingly contradicting her repeated statements over the past 18 months that she was never told that these techniques were actually being used.
If you doe not believe in Jesus or His teachings, why do you care?
Maybe you need to sprout a stomach and quit supporting people who’s only goal is to kill Americans and destroy America itself.
This isn’t a pillow fight.
===================================================
Do you really believe this BS you’re spouting?
See Austrian_Economist’s post upthread:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/05/whom-would-jesus-torture/comment-page-3/#comment-569697
Basically, all they want is for us to get our military forces out of their dammed countries. Crazy talk, right? I suppose you think it’s a Constitutional use of our military forces to secure favorable markets for multi-national oil companies. I don’t.
This, more than any other reason, is why we need to achieve 100% energy independence in this country whether it be by existing fossil fuel infrastructure, nuclear energy, renewables, or some combination thereof. Then, we can bring our troops home at an incredible savings and leave that part of the world to rot in all it’s back-azzwards religious glory.
#
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink
Drugz!!!!!
==================
It’s against the Muslim religion.
Remember we MUST cater to them.
===============================
Cater to them?
okay…
For lunch we are having…
Main Course: Grilled Chicken, steamed carrots, peas, green beans, broccoli and asparagus
Salad: Mostly rocket and cherry tomatoes, with Italian dressing
Dessert: Fruit Salad of pineapple, cantaloupe, strawberries and grapes
Crusty roll and cheese and crackers.
Are radical Islamist who want all non-believers dead the same as radical christians who think Jesus believes in hate and war?
don’t. Wow, that was odd.
“But there is also where the difference lies, never have we the United States of America had a public policy of the use of torture.”
Oh yes Writerdog, it is so much better when our government hides the truth.
(big eye roll)
Daniel,
Gobal JeeeeHaad, maybe you didn’t hear them say it…over and over……and over again.
Austrian_Economist,
Where did Jesus ever say anything about “tolerance” toward others?
And the poll never asked people if they thought Jesus would torture, it simply asked if they thought torture could be justified against terrorists.
Global….dammit!
I can’t wait until Obama’s order to release those terrorist from GITMO takes place in just a couple of months.
His administration is scrambling to find any country willing to unload them on.
I hope they are released in Wichita kansas. You libs can put them up. Heck, you OWE them that after they’ve been wrongfully held and tortured.
There is no place like home.
There is no place like home.
There is no place like home.
(tapping shoes together)
Austrian_Economist,
Who is saying that Jesus believes in hate?
War? Well, do you believe that Jesus was God?
God has sent many people to war.
How do you think the Bible describes Jesus return in Revelation?
He isn’t coming back with tootsie rolls for Satan.
Just remember, about half the darn people who CLAIM to go to church – are liars.
Your scientific (snort) poll goes right down the drain.
I hope they are released in Wichita Kansas
Adjusts and ’sights in’ rifle scope…
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:36 am | Permalink
=======================================
You left out the Ham Sandwich and 5th of whiskey.
Adjusts and ’sights in’ rifle scope…
=====================================
That’s fine.
I’m building a pig catapult.
What exactly is torture? Different people have different definitions. I would challenge those who think they know torture and its characteristics to watch this video and see if their definition of torture remains the same.
The photo we looked at earlier courtesy of Rage pales in comparison and the person being tortured didn’t escape with their life.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5834621727402027113
#
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:43 am | Permalink
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:36 am | Permalink
=======================================
You left out the Ham Sandwich and 5th of whiskey.
=======================================
Oh yeah…
Throws in a pack of Camels for good measure…
(chortles)
#
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:44 am | Permalink
Adjusts and ’sights in’ rifle scope…
=====================================
That’s fine.
I’m building a pig catapult.
————————
dam…wish I had thought of that…
and leave that part of the world to rot in all it’s back-azzwards religious glory.
======================================
I have a simpler idea.
We stop sending them food and money.
Fuq ‘em.
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:20 am | Permalink
Maybe you need to sprout a stomach and quit supporting people who’s only goal is to kill Americans and destroy America itself.
This isn’t a pillow fight.
________________________________________________
WHY? WHY? WHY?
For crying out loud! People need to ask themselves WHY they want to hurt America. They are doing it because we are over there. It is our fault that they hate us. We have been intervening over there for a long time. We dictate, impose sanctions, build bases on holy land. FOR WHAT?
Save them from themselves? Spread Democracy? Police the World?
God did not choose America to do any of those things. Where do we get the moral right to do this? WE DON’T! Our Foreign Policy is as unchristian as you can get.
“They hate us for our freedoms”
GARBAGE! Complete and utter GARBAGE!
The most radical sect of Christianity is just as nuts as their most radical sect of Islam. Think about that.
This is just plain and simple logic. The golden rule does not apply to America though. We are God’s gift to the world. What a crock!
Tolerance, Love, Peace.
Live by these principles and you will live a good life, and find a good place for your soul in the afterlife.
Okobserver,
You are right. The left thinks taking away cable TV for prisoners is torture.
A better poll would have clearly defined what torture was, if it was CLEARLY illegal, and then asked if we supported it.
#
writerdog
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:05 am | Permalink
And Anti I think you are trying to confuse Jesus with Attila the Hun. Those using Jesus as a sword wheeling
revenge seeker is no different then Bin Laden using Allah and Mohammad as a justification for killing the young and innocent.
————–
Dog. How often you seeing it? I mean someone “using Jesus as a sword wheeling revenge seeker”? And could you give an example?
Thanks.
WHY they want to hurt America.
===============================
I really don’t give a schitt why the want to kill us, I want them to stop.
Global Jihad means they are going outside of their borders.
They want us dead, I don’t think they are going to change their minds if we sing ‘Give peace a Chance’.
#
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:40 am | Permalink
War? Well, do you believe that Jesus was God?
God has sent many people to war.
=========================================
While a belief Jesus IS (was? where did that come from?) God, it has nothing to do with the whether God has or hasn’t sent anyone to war.
While the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one in the same, they are three separate entities. Not a contradiction in terms if one has been taught that, and has faith. Example: If they are of one mind, why did Christ ask his Father, God, why He’d forsaken Him on the cross? Answer: If they are one in the same, without being separate entities, He wouldn’t have asked the question, He wouldn’t have had to.
So I gotta disagree with you on that one, Nathan.
Austrian_Economist
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:46 am | Permalink
===================================
I am certain A.E. that if you just reasoned with them they wouldn’t saw your head off…
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:51 am | Permalink
WHY they want to hurt America.
===============================
I really don’t give a schitt why the want to kill us, I want them to stop.
Global Jihad means they are going outside of their borders.
They want us dead, I don’t think they are going to change their minds if we sing ‘Give peace a Chance’.
___________________________________________
Not caring WHY they want us dead is what the problem is with our arrogant country.
What if I told you why they want us out of the region and dead is because we are over there. We bomb them, dictate who gets what land, build bases on holy land, place sanctions on countries that our responsible for millions of deaths already.
That’s America’s foreign policy. It’s sickening and anyone who supports it is not Christian. It is the antithesis of what Jesus taught in the bible.
Austrian_Economist,
“For crying out loud! People need to ask themselves WHY they want to hurt America. They are doing it because we are over there. It is our fault that they hate us. We have been intervening over there for a long time. We dictate, impose sanctions, build bases on holy land. FOR WHAT?”
Our fault? I guess you blame the women who are raped because it was their fault too… they should not have been dressing with so little on or they shouldn’t have gone to that party. Those girls were just asking for it!
“Save them from themselves? Spread Democracy? Police the World?”
No, protect our interests around the world.
“God did not choose America to do any of those things. Where do we get the moral right to do this? WE DON’T! Our Foreign Policy is as unchristian as you can get.”
How so?
“The most radical sect of Christianity is just as nuts as their most radical sect of Islam. Think about that.”
BS. Complete and total BS. You don’t see any Christians running around anywhere near the scale you do Muslims killing people.
“This is just plain and simple logic. The golden rule does not apply to America though. We are God’s gift to the world. What a crock!”
No, you are full of crap.
“Tolerance, Love, Peace.”
You will see no such thing as phrased above in the Bible or spoken by Jesus.
“Live by these principles and you will live a good life, and find a good place for your soul in the afterlife.”
That is a lie. One must have faith in Christ and seek forgiveness of his sins. No one can ever simply work their way into heaven nor will they ever be good enough on their own.
Not caring WHY they want us dead is what the problem is with our arrogant country.
======================================
No, the problem is that Islomo-Terrorist want EVERYONE who is not a radical Muslim DEAD.
Jesus Torture Thread
The purpose of this thread:
1) Give libs a place to post: “HA-HA!”
2) Make Christians think they have to defend it.
Please continue.
JM Walker,
“While a belief Jesus IS (was? where did that come from?) God, it has nothing to do with the whether God has or hasn’t sent anyone to war.”
I was talking about Jesus as a man in the past tense. I meant that Jesus is God and was God while He was here on Earth.
“So I gotta disagree with you on that one, Nathan.”
Disagree with me on what? Are you saying that war is wrong? Always? and not Christian?
What do you base that on if you do?
My point was that God doesn’t change. He has sent people to war and has used war. There is nothing in the Bible or anything Jesus has said which would show that war is wrong.
War is merely a function of government. Jesus dealt with people on the personal level and didn’t talk much about government policies.
So how can one claim that Jesus was against war or that he said war was wrong when there is no such language in the Bible?
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:53 am | Permalink
Austrian_Economist
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:46 am | Permalink
===================================
I am certain A.E. that if you just reasoned with them they wouldn’t saw your head off…
_________________________________________________
You cannot go around the world doing whatever you want and not expect to get blowback.
You tell me where we have the moral authority to police the world, and I’ll shut up.
That’s what’s wrong with our country anyway. We try to solve the symptoms of our problems (terrorism, jihad, etc) and completely forget about the source of our problems (Foreign Policy).
We are doing the same thing now with the financial crisis. Symptoms: derivatives, gambling, loose credit. Source: Federal Reserve Bank.
We are a nation of people who have been lied to and miseducated.
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink
Not caring WHY they want us dead is what the problem is with our arrogant country.
======================================
No, the problem is that Islomo-Terrorist want EVERYONE who is not a radical Muslim DEAD.
_________________________________________________
And radical christians who justify torture and war and no different.
Six minutes of your time to see what torture really is. This argument of Phillips is just a diversion for the sheep in this country that have bought into the Obamination.
http://www.abortiontv.com/Movies/hardtruth.htm
Austrian_Economist appears to be sitting high on the throne of sanctimony. :)
Nathaniel,
After reading your post, it is clear that I will never get through to you.
Please, continue to promote war, hate, torture. Your Jesus will be very proud.
Austrian_Economist,
“And radical christians who justify torture and war and no different.”
Actually, they are. You don’t see Christians out blowing themselves up and taking 50 innocent people with them.
You don’t see Christians out killing homosexuals or Muslims or any other non-believers like the Muslims do.
You don’t see the Christians rioting in the streets and demanding people be killed because of a cartoon or any other drawing of Jesus.
There is a VAST difference between what you claim to be Radical Christians and radical Muslims.
Still waiting for an example of the United States sanctioned torture methods.
You may have to cite a ‘24′ episode, and what head butting Jack Baurer had to do.
Austiran_Economist,
“Please, continue to promote war, hate, torture. Your Jesus will be very proud.”
I do not promote torture or hate or war.
I do recognize that war is sometimes needed.
You are making claims about what Jesus said which are not true. You make claims about Christians which are not true. You make claims about salvation which are not true.
Then you say you refuse to answer for them?
You are a liar.
Horsesh*t Regular.
Do I seem above everyone in here for promoting peace, love, and tolerance.
Nice copout. What that tells me is that you don’t follow those principles and want to justify this by calling me sanctimonious.
Whatever dude. Kids can understand what the golden rule is. Why do adults have the hardest time with it? I am not perfect. I sin too. I’m just telling you people about the Jesus I grew up learning about. I don’t know where this vengeful Jesus was created from because it is incompatible with anything the apostles talked about in the New Testament.
America cannot go around the world doing whatever it wants and not expect to incite hatred. Anyone who disagrees with me is seriously lacking in the critical thinking skills department. This is as logical as Socrates could’ve preached it.
Wait a minute…
You took my line America_Economist!
“America cannot go around the world doing whatever it wants and not expect to incite hatred. Anyone who disagrees with ME (Nathan) is seriously lacking in the critical thinking skills department. This is as logical as Socrates could’ve preached it.”
Perhaps Regular was wrong. You are not as much sanctimonious as you are arrogant and full of yourself.
Jesus came to change religion from the God of Vengence and blood lust to a religion of love and compassion. Something that’s lost on the fundies, which makes them very little different than radical Islamist.
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:05 pm | Permalink
Austrian_Economist,
“And radical christians who justify torture and war and no different.”
Actually, they are. You don’t see Christians out blowing themselves up and taking 50 innocent people with them.
You don’t see Christians out killing homosexuals or Muslims or any other non-believers like the Muslims do.
You don’t see the Christians rioting in the streets and demanding people be killed because of a cartoon or any other drawing of Jesus.
There is a VAST difference between what you claim to be Radical Christians and radical Muslims.
________________________________________________
Yeah, we just promote UN sanctions that kill millions over there.
We promote a foreign policy of jesus by policing the world.
We build bases on holy land to protect America.
Good Christian values there.
Tomato, Tomato, Potatoe, Potatoe
Woops, didn’t mean to include that first sentence…
“America cannot go around the world doing whatever it wants and not expect to incite hatred.”
It is a strawman argument since no one here is advocating that America do “whatever” America wants as if with no regard.
However, your naive and simpleton blame Aemrica first argument is really sad.
You can bet that if they felt their religion was under attack you’d see Christian Martyrs in the hundreds. Especially if their religious leader told them they’d be martyrs and immediately admitted to heaven.
Austrian_Economist,
“Yeah, we just promote UN sanctions that kill millions over there.”
UN Sanctions do not kill people. Dictators do. Why do you insist on blaming everyone but the actual bad people who are doing the killing?
“We promote a foreign policy of jesus by policing the world.”
Absurd BS. No we don’t.
“We build bases on holy land to protect America.”
Holy Land? What do you consider to be holy land? America is building bases in the middle of the desert, yes. Not on some poor saps church.
“Good Christian values there.”
Nice lies and strawman arguments there.
“Tomato, Tomato, Potatoe, Potatoe”
You are the one trying to make the absurd claim that “radica” Christians (whatever those are) are the same as radical muslims.
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:13 pm | Permalink
Wait a minute…
You took my line America_Economist!
“America cannot go around the world doing whatever it wants and not expect to incite hatred. Anyone who disagrees with ME (Nathan) is seriously lacking in the critical thinking skills department. This is as logical as Socrates could’ve preached it.”
Perhaps Regular was wrong. You are not as much sanctimonious as you are arrogant and full of yourself.
_______________________________________________
Don’t mistake arrogance with years of reading and studying. I try to grow my knowledge everyday. I will not apologize for trying to grow my mind.
Don’t call me arrogant to make up for your lack of knowledge. You have the same opportunity as I to read and grow your mind.
I don’t go around here calling others stupid and claim to be all knowing. I am confident in my knowledge. You may see it as arrogant, but I see it as being learned and not afraid to share my knowledge.
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink
However, your naive and simpleton blame America first argument is really sad.
____________________________________________________
Exactly why we are here today. No one wants to admit the truth.
Let’s just hide behind the whole, “They hate us for our freedom” garbage. That seems to have worked out really well as far as brainwashing the public goes.
It also puts the blame squarely on their shoulders.
America never did anything but exist!
Awesome!
I’d also like to mention that the freedom they “hate” is almost gone in this country anyway. How long can they play that broken record before people start to wake up?
I don’t know where this vengeful Jesus was created from because it is incompatible with anything the apostles talked about in the New Testament.
=============================================
Thomas Paine said it and this man and his followers embody it:
http://img1.picturewizard.com/1328E8C/0/cruel.jpg
Of course Anti as the acts of the individual is theirs alone and is not the stated effect of the U.S.
Where when a nation endorses and condones the illegal then it is the sole sin of that nation.
Was every German a Nazi? Did every German know about the death camps? It’s no to both yet each and every German was held to a national guilt.
You like “24”? Even Jack Bowers knows that no matter how effective his actions are. If the news of his actions is uncovered he will be left hanging in the wind and denounced. Why because it would then be a matter of National guilt and that is not affordable for a Democracy. Yes it has a lot to do with National perception. The statement of “ America does not torture!” Is more then the simply denial of the obvious act that has been committed. It is a statement of moral principals and National core values that sets us above the other countries.
I see the question of protecting yours or your family’s lives, I counter with this one:
Which is more important to you, you families life’s or the survival and continuation of the American principals and values? Hard choice or it should be if you truly believe in what makes American worth the blood and suffering it would take to defend it. But then if you are defending the United States of America,
Just what is it that you are defending? What is it that makes this land worth defending? Your house? Your yard? The States you live in? Just what is it that is worth the lives of our best and brightest?
If it would bring back just one of those who has been killed or even lost a limb in the defense of this country. You can have my house, my yard and this State! If I were to make an offer, I will pay off the house and ever debt you have and all I want is the life of one of your children. Would you surrender one of your children? If you do not believe in the “American way” just what is it that you think is being protected?
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:18 pm | Permalink
Austrian_Economist,
“Yeah, we just promote UN sanctions that kill millions over there.”
“UN Sanctions do not kill people. Dictators do. Why do you insist on blaming everyone but the actual bad people who are doing the killing?”
Yeah, dictators that the United States put into power.
“We promote a foreign policy of jesus by policing the world.”
“Absurd BS. No we don’t.”
Yeah, 130 countries across the globe that have a US military base on it is absurd. Dude, we have an empire and are trying to control that empire through military force.
pssst Dawg,
24” and Jack Bowers are fictional…
#
Phantom
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:14 pm | Permalink
Jesus came to change religion from the God of Vengence and blood lust to a religion of love and compassion. Something that’s lost on the fundies, which makes them very little different than radical Islamist.
================================================
Amazing isn’t it? They miss the central message of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus because they choose to focus on the minutiae that allows them justify their petty bigotry and selfishness.
Or put another way, they can’t see the forest for the trees.
Keep feeding the libs. They are loving it.
(It’s like posting CO2, just to get a rise out of you-know-who)
I wonder if anyone has done a ‘post mortem’ interview with Daniel Pearl about radical jihad and their methods of torture?
Ha, I think Phillip Brownlee was thinking, I’ll just put a stick in to a big pot of boiling manure this morning, and stir it around.
Austrian_Economist,
“Yeah, dictators that the United States put into power.”
Wow, you just don’t stop. Blame America first is all you got.
Like I said, you would as soon blame the woman for being raped before you ever blamed the guy who did it.
“Yeah, 130 countries across the globe that have a US military base on it is absurd. Dude, we have an empire and are trying to control that empire through military force.”
130 countries witha a base?
Where do you get that figure from?
Are you including the US embassies which have a small contingent of Marines as a base?
If you are as smart as you think you are, then why do you run away from my questions above?
Why don’t you back up your assertions about Jesus with actual scripture and your assertions about what it takes to be saved?
You are the evil one who is lying and leading people away from the truth of eternal life with the crap you spew.
Actually, the photo I posted above came from Abu Garaib, and was just one small example of official Bush administration policy in action.
It is possible to interrogate without torturing, no matter how much some folks out there want to pretend there’s a gray area. Police departments do it all the time.
And it invariably yields better information, and a surprising number of outright confessions.
Writer I think the freedoms we enjoy came with a price. War is ugly. It would never be my first choice.
I however realize that we don’t live in a utopian world and there are mean vicious men in this world that would relish grinding the US under the heel of their boots.
We as a country have always tried to be proactive. When we stopped doing this after Clinton bombed the aspirin factory the USS Cole was attacked. The WTC was attacked. American Embassies were blown up. Military facilities were bombed.
Many on both sides of the aisle thought we should go into Iraq. Now many of those have changed their minds and say we shouldn’t have gone in. Well you can’t always change your mind and Bush didn’t have the luxury of changing his mind midstream. This is the curse of the prez.
We were attacked. Terrorists were caught plotting against our nation. These terrorist were interrogated. Some think too harshly. I don’t share that opinion. I think the choices you give are very simplistic in their scope. We did have to choose between allowing the terrorists to win and preserving the freedoms others had died to give us.
That is the truth – not some fictional tv show.
Dog. How often you seeing it? I mean someone “using Jesus as a sword wheeling revenge seeker”? And could you give an example?
Thanks.
A few years back one of my passions was about Pastor Terry Fox, After watching him on TV. Every week to see just what he said to his people. Several told me that the broadcast was not an actuate depiction of him and his ministry. They invited me to attend at least one of his sermons in personal I wanted to be fair so I did. It was quite a departure from what I was use to, most the hour was spent not on God’s word and the purification of one’s soul. It was about forty minutes of telling about financial ills and planning. Only three times did he reference scripture and then only to turn it into a supporting reference to what he was already stating and not as God’s words.
The last fifteen minutes was spent describing Jesus as a sword wheeling blood spiller and saying that is the way the people should be if they truly accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. At the time he was on a tangent about the TV. Show “The book of Daniel” and provide on the large screen in front of the sanctuary the home phone and address of the new director of programming at KSNBC locally.
He then stated that he was not telling the attendees to harass and make the life of the new Director a living Hell. BUT IF YOU FEEL THE RIGHTEOUS NEED GO AHEAD!
More then once we have seen the same logic used here too, the favorite example of those who believe justified. Is the banishing of the moneychangers in the Temple, one time when Jesus failed in favor of the human response to what he saw as a wrong. And it has doomed his for centuries!
Rage were you brave enough to look at the video I posted or are you only outraged when the ‘victim’ is a grown man who is suspected of terrorism?
Yes Regular I know that but it is the thinking presented on 24 that prevailed in the policies and practices outside the show.
Nathaniel posted May 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm
You are the evil one who is lying and leading people away from the truth of eternal life with the crap you spew.
————-
Priceless.
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm | Permalink
Austrian_Economist,
Wow, you just don’t stop. Blame America first is all you got.
_________________________________________________
Which America are you talking about? The one that is controlled by elites who could give a ratsass about this country and the Constitution? Yeah, I blame that America for a lot.
Nathaniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm | Permalink
You are the evil one who is lying and leading people away from the truth of eternal life with the crap you spew.
________________________________________________
Where do you go to church?
Get this my fellow WEBlog friends.
If you mention that Jesus taught tolerance, peace, and love around here, you are doing nothing but “spewing crap” according to Nathaniel.
I will not be saved because I believe this.
Freedom of religion I guess, but do not try and have this garbage dictated to me through law in the name of a country.
Actually, I don’t think Bush Our Savior ever tortured anything except logic, unless you count His speeches. And the people who tortured people were not told by Bush to torture them, they were ordered to enhance interrogations from those who claimed they received the Word from Above. Sounds ever so christian to me!
Just amazing how much hatred the Left Libs can spew in one thread.
“…the banishing of the moneychangers in the Temple, one time when Jesus failed in favor of the human response to what he saw as a wrong. And it has doomed his for centuries! [writer dog]
Dog, actually Jesus didnt fail, when he ran the Money Changerw out of the Temple. He did an act of social justice… The Money Changers had a right to be there… they provided the function of currency exchange, especially at the times of the great festivals, such as passover, when huge crowds were in attendance, and not everybody brought a sacrifice animal with them…
The Money Changers were there to make proper change, and even exhcanging things with weights and measures…
The problem Jesus learned was that they were Cheating the worshippers… they were Stealing in the confines of the Temple… Thus he says they had turned his Father’s House into a “den of thieves”
He wasnt acting against just people… He was acting against their crime… He was, in a sense, returning the stolen money to either the honest worshippers, or at least to the Temple…
AND, it was not illegal for him to do what he did.
Now, there are those who will argue that he made a whip out of reeds… And so he did… BUT, he didnt use the whip to attack anybody.. Perhaps to make a loud sound, getting their attention… But the Scriptures do not say he used his whip against any humans…
Enforcing Temple Regulations… as well as legal regulations?? Not an act of violence… All that is upset is the tables of the crooks… along with their ill-gotten gains…
OKO,
“When we stopped doing this after Clinton bombed the aspirin factory”
There is something often dropped out of that story, the bombing occurred after the CIA acquired soil samples that contain reminisces of the material needed to make Chemical and Biological weapons. I too got caught up in the whole “wag the dog” syndrome in those days and did not hear the full details to years later. That was not the point you were trying to make. A.E is making the valid point about it was as a whole with foreign policies that led up to attacks and here too you are making the same point.
Clinton did aspire to use ground operations to get OBL and Al-Qaeda. But the CIA and the Pentagon both did they utmost to stall him and talk him out of it. They said that with out a massive ground presents it could not be done. I.E. the invasion of whichever country they were in at the time.
“Many on both sides of the aisle thought we should go into Iraq“.
(and)
“We were attacked. Terrorists were caught plotting against our nation. These terrorists were interrogated. Some think too harshly. I don’t share that opinion. I think the choices you give are very simplistic in their scope. We did have to choose between allowing the terrorists to win and preserving the freedoms others had died to give us“.
In the beginning I was supportive of the invasion of Iraq, but it was these two things that got me to looking at the why of the invasion.
“We were attacked. Terrorists were caught plotting against our nation”
“We should go into Iraq”
A little voice kept saying that there just was not a link, but I for awhile I dismissed the voice with” He is the President and has more information available to him then I do!”.
But once I started looking for some reassurance as to the justifications they just were not there. It has become a very long story since and one that has became redundant to say the least.
“These terrorists were interrogated. Some think too harshly. I don’t share that opinion. I think the choices you give are very simplistic in their scope. We did have to choose between allowing the terrorists to win and preserving the freedoms others had died to give us“.
In this is the key words that makes it so simplistic, “We did have to choose between allowing the terrorists to win and preserving the freedoms others had died to give us“.
The terrorists did not have the delusions of overthrowing the United States by themselves. No matter how many planes and building not to mention lives they could destroy they do not or did not have such power.
They best hope was to cause us to leave and change our foreign policies with their own abilities.
But with our help they could undermine the United States, as we are the only ones with that power.
To undermine exactly those freedoms others died to give those principals and us they thought worth the dying over. Those same principals that was said to be worth the misperceived idea of spreading by military action. But then by violating those principals and freedoms we do out of a choice, that choice did give the Terrorists a win they could not have done on their own.
Willingly and without a justifiable cause we gave up such things as the forth and fifth amendments.
Mike Hayden without a given reason stated that the NSA had to be able to listen in on ALL calls, e-mails and i.e. communications within the United States. And it was agreed to by those who’s job it was to safeguard our constitutional rights. We suspended Habeas Corpus rights within the United States for even citizens of the United States on the whim and solely up to and without a court hearing to show there was a justification of one man.
And now is that we violated on our only principals and core values that so many fought and died so we should have freedom and justice not based on skin color or Political sway. Bin Laden did not make us do it.
The Devil did not make us do it. We did it on our own and were what Bin Laden said we would do. Thus he was proven right and we did give him a victory he wanted. There is no violation by the sinner who steps into a porn shop. But one by the saint who steps in. Are we the saints or the sinners?
“I wonder if anyone has done a ‘post mortem’ interview with Daniel Pearl about radical jihad and their methods of torture?”
Reg, you think Pearl would have gotten as upset as these dim Dimlibs about water boarding some damn terrorist if it might have saved his life, think his family would have.
These ass/holes are hypocrites and would be screaming bloody murder if everything possible wasn’t done to save their sorry ass.
I guess, from reading this thread, my burning question here is:
All of you torture believers, can you find ONE PERSON that Jesus EVER tortured??
#
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
I guess, from reading this thread, my burning question here is:
All of you torture believers, can you find ONE PERSON that Jesus EVER tortured??
—————————————
Better question:
Would Jesus allow Chas into Heaven?
Absolutely not.
Oh yea, Reg., you mentioned the sad case of Daniel Perl above…
I hate to tell ya, but beheading isnt torture… it’s, well, murder…
Torture is done, allegedly, to gain information… Cant get much information from a severed head, can ya?? Want to try again??
Hint: Beheading in this case was an act of terrorism at its WORST…
Reg., if I have to put up with your feeble attempts at persecuting me because of my beliefs, then I guess according to Jesus, I am blessed…
Besides, I already knew you couldnt answer my question…
#
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
#
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
I guess, from reading this thread, my burning question here is:
All of you torture believers, can you find ONE PERSON that Jesus EVER tortured??
—————————————
Better question:
Would Jesus allow Chas into Heaven?
Absolutely not.
============================================
What do you base that on, Regular?
Attention: Reg. has now joined ranks with Nathan in playing the role of God.
/sarcasm off
#
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
Oh yea, Reg., you mentioned the sad case of Daniel Perl above…
I hate to tell ya, but beheading isnt torture… it’s, well, murder…
Torture is done, allegedly, to gain information… Cant get much information from a severed head, can ya?? Want to try again??
Hint: Beheading in this case was an act of terrorism at its WORST…
===========================================
Yeah, Daniel Pearl was treated so kindly by the Islamic terrorists.
Here’s some excerpt of forensic studies what happened to Perl.
The first subsequent scene shows Pearl with superimposed images of Afghanistan behind him. Then, after another splice, the tape shows part of Pearl’s body with a four-inch incision in his chest. The wound was not fresh, and he was not bleeding, suggesting Pearl could have been cut even days earlier, according to the analysis. He showed no signs of life at that point.
After another editing cut, Pearl appears lying down. The arms of two men wearing short-sleeved, striped shirts are seen as one reaches over with a knife and slashes Pearl’s throat. Pearl was not conscious at the time, and investigators studying the tape said they believe he was probably already dead because he did not react to the touch of the knife.
And that’s just part of it that they can figure out…
What do you base that on, Regular?
With the same bovine excrement that Chas asks if Jesus would torture.
Chas I reference that because it is a lonely example for a man who preached not just divine tolerance but one of human understanding and to fight it with divine understanding. He lost his temper at what he saw and took a physical reaction not a divine reaction. But it is used to justify many human reactions by those who would claim to be his followers. It could be used to show that all fall short of the glory of God at times even the Son of God. But you should not be damned for an eternity for a shortcoming against the teachings.
It was Jesus the man who reacted not Jesus the Son of God we all fall short and no that does not mean we are all short sinners. The row hoed by a Christian is not a easy one but neither should it be that when God can forgive that we should hold a moment’s laps as the all telling way of man.
“…investigators studying the tape said they believe he was probably already dead because he did not react to the touch of the knife.” [regular]
In other words, not even those terrorists, as EVIL and NO GOOD as they are, didnt have the guts to do a live beheading… But thoses idiots are capable of doing it, and they are also pure crazy…
Jesus would NOT have been in favor of any such thing… Hallelujah!!
#
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
What do you base that on, Regular?
With the same bovine excrement that Chas asks if Jesus would torture.
=============================================
That’s not really an answer. I’m always amazed when I see a religious person who thinks they can see inside the heart and soul of another human being and therefore know better than God about the eternal destination of that person’s soul.
Absolutely mind-boggling, eh Daniel??
Absolutely mind-boggling, eh Daniel??
===========================================
It truly is.
Daniel posted May 8, 2009 at 2:20 pm
What do you base that on, Regular?
—————
The same thing that Regular based his (false) claim that the Sierra Club “screwed” the New Orleans levees, and his numerous other lies on — Regular is a professional troll.
“God can forgive that we should hold a moment’s laps as the all telling way of man”
Ok here is one of those key points that is to be considered, the water boarding was done when this country was suffering from a human laps of judgment. We can interject that to what was done and would it be right to judge the United States by that moment human reaction? Christians may take that into account and even perhaps Moslems if both are putting their faith above their own human response.
It is not that I do not understand the how it happened, its just that it was a violation of the row we are to hoe.
I can accept that we failed to act as we the United States of America should acted. Again the sinner is not held to as great a standard as the Saint. When the Saint falters even with a minor sin the angels will weep.
As they must surely being doing at the water boarding and the attempt to justify the sin.
“Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.” -Eric Hoffer-
Speak of Nathaniel. . .
Nathaniel posted May 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm
You are the evil one who is lying and leading people away from the truth of eternal life with the crap you spew.
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
Torture is done, allegedly, to gain information… Cant get much information from a severed head, can ya?? Want to try again??
—————————————————-
Really? What information was the BTK trying to exact from his victims?
I still don’t understand why the LIBs think pouring water on a deadly enemy of the citizens of the USA is a bad thing…I guess I never will.
A.E., I do not want to us to ‘police the world’. But we do, I guess because no one else has the guts too. That is not going to change unfortunately.
If you wish to live in a fantasy world, fine.
“That’s not really an answer. I’m always amazed when I see a religious person who thinks they can see inside the heart and soul of another human being and therefore know better than God about the eternal destination of that person’s soul.”
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:32 pm | Permalink
Absolutely mind-boggling, eh Daniel??”
Now wait you’re forgetting that Regular doesn’t have complete control of his mental faculties from years of taking the free government supplied pain killers and relievers ….. so maybe cut him some slack, pat him on the head and say nice boy here’s a nickel ….
On the dangers of eternal life:
Ponce DeLeon, so excited to have found
The fountain of youth fell in and drowned.
Writer do you not see a similarity in the way the left blindly follow Obama to the way you describe Terry Fox. Having never heard him preach I can’t say whether what you say in right or not. I can say that I have never sat in a church and listened to any sermon that preached the kind of sermon you describe.
The left and I include you in that, are so outraged by the ‘torturing’ of terrorists that they have lost sight of the very real dangers in the world around us.
“All of you torture believers, can you find ONE PERSON that Jesus EVER tortured??”
Every single child who was ever forced to memorize a catechism.
okobserver
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:57 pm | Permalink
The left and I include you in that, are so outraged by the ‘torturing’ of terrorists that they have lost sight of the very real dangers in the world around us.
—————————————————-
I agree. And I keep coming back to that idea that I/We are supposed to be taking 1)morality lessons from infantcide supporters and 2) lessons in war from pacifists?
What’s next? Barbeque tips from Vegans?
“Every single child who was ever forced to memorize a catechism”
beber, now even I got’a admit that is funny.
But it’s good for them even if it’s torture….so see all torture isn’t bad.
My question is, on how to deal with the Terrorist problem. I look at them as cockroaches. Is the best solution to try and kill them all. Or find some way to keep them busy, and out of our hair? Or maybe we should find some how to keep them busy, in one concentrated area, and then kill a bunch at a time. Is there such thing as rehabilitating a terrorist? Or is it easier for them and us, to just put a bullet in their head, and not even acknowledge that they existed in the first place? You know what’s really messed up? One of the hijackers loved America. He had a job a girlfriend, lots of American friends, he was really sociable, educated and he enjoyed all the freedoms that we enjoy. But he still carried out his mission, and hijacked a plane on 911.
#
Daniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:31 pm | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
What do you base that on, Regular?
With the same bovine excrement that Chas asks if Jesus would torture.
=============================================
That’s not really an answer. I’m always amazed when I see a religious person who thinks they can see inside the heart and soul of another human being and therefore know better than God about the eternal destination of that person’s soul.
———————
Sure it’s an answer.
Here, try this on for size – since you like painting the hog with whitewash.
The statement by Chas is a contradictory proposition that did not exist and will never exist. Chas proposed fallacious argument was reified nonsense.
I do not want to us to ‘police the world’. But we do, I guess because no one else has the guts too. That is not going to change unfortunately.
==================================================
We have to police the world because we try to police the world.
It’s like an idiot who goes around whacking hornet’s nests with sticks, gets stung, gets P.O.’d, and then decides the best option is to grab more sticks and hit the hornet’s nests harder.
When some people suggest that whacking hornet’s nests is a bad idea, they get labeled pu$$ies, soft on hornet-ism, and hornet sympathizers.
Rationality and logic, be dammed.
“I guess, from reading this thread, my burning question here is:
All of you torture believers, can you find ONE PERSON that Jesus EVER tortured??”—Chas
Ah okay, is hitting people with a whip torture, I’d say yes.
According to the Gospels, Jesus took offense to this (extorting profit from the people to hear the word of God), and so, creating a whip from some cords, drives out the money changers, and turns over their tables, and those of the people selling doves Matthew[21:13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_024.jpg
So, Reg — That question was, again:
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
I take it from your poorly stated objection, that you would therefore agree that Jesus never DID torture anybody, right?? I mean, if the proposition never existed, then Jesus never tortured anybody, right??
It is a proven fact, that the liberal media, blew the whole torture thing out of proportion. It was only a few incidences, where they used questionable techniques, that walked the thin line between legal interrogation techniques, and torture. Our government has known since the start of our country, that torture, does not work. They know the best way, to retrieve information from a suspect, it to gain their trust, talk to them, and make amenity negotiations based on their current imprisonment situation. Then after you’ve gained more trust, they usually tell you more information, and a lot of times, interrogators are able to persuade and change the direction of their opinions, and their belief system. I listened to a two hour segment on NPR last fall, about a professional military interrogator, with a prestigious degree from an Ivy League school. Who said the best way to gain information, is to gain their trust first. They do use scare tactics, but it’s all psychological. He said he never once, came anywhere close to using any means of physical torture. He said the only Americans who have used anything close to resembling physical torture, were guards or service men uneducated in the proper ways of interrogation, which have been very few cases. The media, has simply exacerbated our problems, and made America look a lot worse, than it actually is.
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
So, Reg — That question was, again:
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
I take it from your poorly stated objection, that you would therefore agree that Jesus never DID torture anybody, right?? I mean, if the proposition never existed, then Jesus never tortured anybody, right??
————————————————–
By the whiney UN standards, His full submersion baptisms would be tortue.
Daniel squeals:
We have to police the world because we try to police the world.
It’s like an idiot who goes around whacking hornet’s nests with sticks, gets stung, gets P.O.’d, and then decides the best option is to grab more sticks and hit the hornet’s nests harder.
When some people suggest that whacking hornet’s nests is a bad idea, they get labeled pu$$ies, soft on hornet-ism, and hornet sympathizers.
Rationality and logic, be dammed.
You go in prepared if one ‘hits the hornet’s nest.’
You use smoke, protective clothing and locate the queen, setting her inside a trapping hive.
You’re not a pu$$ie, just a naive Lib incapable thinking of what happens in the real world beyond his own nose.
BOX — I dealt with that stupid idea of yours earlier… Nowhere in the Text does it state that Jesus used the whip on PEOPLE… orry dudew,m you’re barking up the wrong tree with a dog that dont hunt…
Why are all you right wingers trying to turn Jesus into a torture fanatic like yourselves?? It wont work… Even atheistic folks know better than that!!
Y’all are just trying to pick up a t urd by the clean end!! LOL
The media, has simply exacerbated our problems, and made America look a lot worse, than it actually is.
==============================
Yep.
Way to go LIBs.
orry dudew,m
===============
WTF?
Chas seek medical attention at once, I think you are stroking out again!
When I was 12, my friend and I attacked a Yellow Jacket Nest. It was a two day battle over the weekend that lasted at least five hours each day. We used sticks, rakes, shovels, and a garden hose. We wore as much protective clothing as possible, but still we were stung quite a few times. Both of us, a total of 10-15 times. It was an epic battle, and we eventually won. lol We took no prisoners, a few times, the hornets chased us into the house, and two blocks down the street. Luckily no one was seriously injured.
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:21 pm | Permalink
Why are all you right wingers trying to turn Jesus into a torture fanatic like yourselves?
—————————————————-
Not I. I keep my faith and my foreign policy/rules of interrogation seperate, as to fulfill the great commission.
“His full submersion baptisms would be tortue.” [kia]
#1) NO on torture… Baptisms are done freely, without coercion, or force…
#2 JESUS never baptized anybody, at least not recorded in the Gospels…
Want to try picking up another t urd by the clean end??
We used sticks, rakes, shovels, and a garden hose.
===========================
I was and am, fond of using carburetor cleaner and a lighter when engaging in battle with Yellow Jackets.
But, I am an ass/hole.
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm | Permalink
“His full submersion baptisms would be tortue.” [kia]
#1) NO on torture… Baptisms are done freely, without coercion, or force…
#2 JESUS never baptized anybody, at least not recorded in the Gospels…
Want to try picking up another t urd by the clean end??
————————————————–
I’m assuming that would be by your hair then.
It was sarcasm nimrod.
#
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
So, Reg — That question was, again:
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
I take it from your poorly stated objection, that you would therefore agree that Jesus never DID torture anybody, right?? I mean, if the proposition never existed, then Jesus never tortured anybody, right??
—————————————
I dunno Chas, name the one person that Jesus tortured.
I would love to see once again, your misinterpretation of the Bible.
Or are you just used to putting conclusions as a primary entrant to leading questions embroiled in apathetic similitude?
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:23 pm | Permalink
orry dudew,m
===============
Where did you find that?? Your monitor not working or what??
Anti, lol forgot about that, we used that also, but almost caught the yard on fire, my dad yelled at us for doing that, luckily we already had the garden hose out. so we stopped using that. We found that using the aerosol can and lighter method, worked best for scorching the yellow jackets out the air in mid-flight. lol. ah good memories.
Where did you find that?? Your monitor not working or what??
==========================
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:21 pm | Permalink
BOX — I dealt with that stupid idea of yours earlier… Nowhere in the Text does it state that Jesus used the whip on PEOPLE… orry dudew,m you’re barking up the wrong tree with a dog that dont hunt…
—–
Your post, Dumbass.
Well hell you’ll probably miss it Chas so….
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:21 pm | Permalink
BOX — I dealt with that stupid idea of yours earlier… Nowhere in the Text does it state that Jesus used the whip on PEOPLE… orry dudew,m you’re barking up the wrong tree with a dog that dont hunt…
Ummmm — Reg?? I can recommend a good optometrist, but you can probably find a better one at the Base… see, I didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody… What a pathetic joke you have become!!!
Whom would Allah dissect alive?
#
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:35 pm | Permalink
Ummmm — Reg?? I can recommend a good optometrist, but you can probably find a better one at the Base… see, I didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody… What a pathetic joke you have become!!!
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
Whom would Mohammad blow up?
OK, ANTI — I missed it… it’s a typo… surely you can figure that one out… but in case you cant, it should read “sorry dude”
Guess you just got the nit pickin fever today, eh ANTI?? Happens a lot when you dont have anything going and you just want to disrupt the thread… LOL
Chas,
I remember my cousin’s baptism; the preacher grabbed her by the face and held her under while he read the entire New Testament. Slowly. Waterboarding might have been more humane.
Keep it up Reg, but I still didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody… I asked you very specifically if YOU can name anybody Jesus tortured… Sorry you are having such a horrible reading problem today….
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:39 pm | Permalink
OK, ANTI — I missed it… it’s a typo…
===============================
Thank God,
I thought you may have spazzed out and swallowed your tongue.
Well, Jed, there are always a few nut cases around… But, I would imagine that she went to the Baptism itself of her own volition… eh??
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:41 pm | Permalink
Keep it up Reg, but I still didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
I remember my cousin’s baptism; the preacher grabbed her by the face and held her under while he read the entire New Testament. Slowly. -Jed
=========================
I hope you packed a lunch.
Chas,
Jesus didn’t torture anyone.
#
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:43 pm | Permalink
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:41 pm | Permalink
Keep it up Reg, but I still didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
================================================
Regular,
Can you name ONE MAN that you’ve had the ghey buttsecks with?
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:42 pm | Permalink
Well, Jed, there are always a few nut cases around… But, I would imagine that she went to the Baptism itself of her own volition… eh??
—————————————————-
Terrorists/enemy combatants do so on their own volition as well.
Lord, lead usd not into temptation,
And deliver us from folks who think they’re You!! A—Men!!
peace/out
Oh great… Kia now insists there is no differrence between Baptism and WAR… Olbermann should come blog here… he would have no problem finding the world’s worst person!! LOL
Chas,
As I recall, she went on her parents’ volition.
Olbermann
=====================
Who the fuq is that?
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:41 pm | Permalink
Keep it up Reg, but I still didnt say Jesus DID torture anybody… I asked you very specifically if YOU can name anybody Jesus tortured… Sorry you are having such a horrible reading problem today…
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
Mr_Kia wrote:
Why can’t you argue a point without the use of pre-K nickname F@ck face?
——————-
Really? What information was the BTK trying to exact from his victims?
——————-
Terrorists/enemy combatants do so on their own volition as well.
=================================================
Are you nine-years old? Did your babysitter have to drive you down to Riverfest for lunch?
I was going to ask why you aren’t in school but judging by your reasoning capabilities, it’s obvious that you’re home schooled.
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
Oh great… Kia now insists there is no differrence between Baptism and WAR… Olbermann should come blog here… he would have no problem finding the world’s worst person!! LOL
—————————————————-
I’m just sorry the public school system failed you so miserably that you can’t follow the trail. Let’s see if I can throw some popcorn down for you.
-Girls decides to get Baptized.
-Girl gets Baptized, held underwater for a long amonunt of time (I’m thinking this was a joke).
-You state she made the decision to get Baptized on her own accord.
I compare to:
-Terrorist/Enemy combatant who decides to enter war against the United States.
-Terrorist/enemy combatant is captured and held underwater for a long time.
-I state, he made the decision to become an enemy of the United States on his own accord.
Daniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:58 pm | Permalink
Mr_Kia wrote:
Why can’t you argue a point without the use of pre-K nickname F@ck face?
——————-
Really? What information was the BTK trying to exact from his victims?
——————-
Terrorists/enemy combatants do so on their own volition as well.
=================================================
Are you nine-years old? Did your babysitter have to drive you down to Riverfest for lunch?
I was going to ask why you aren’t in school but judging by your reasoning capabilities, it’s obvious that you’re home schooled.
————————————————–
Keep my name out yo mouf.
#
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:02 pm | Permalink
Chas
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
Oh great… Kia now insists there is no differrence between Baptism and WAR… Olbermann should come blog here… he would have no problem finding the world’s worst person!! LOL
—————————————————-
I’m just sorry the public school system failed you so miserably that you can’t follow the trail. Let’s see if I can throw some popcorn down for you.
-Girls decides to get Baptized.
-Girl gets Baptized, held underwater for a long amonunt of time (I’m thinking this was a joke).
-You state she made the decision to get Baptized on her own accord.
I compare to:
-Terrorist/Enemy combatant who decides to enter war against the United States.
-Terrorist/enemy combatant is captured and held underwater for a long time.
-I state, he made the decision to become an enemy of the United States on his own accord.
=================================================
Good call there, Columbo.
Can you name ONE PERSON that Jesus ever tortured??
___________________________________
How about Lazareth? He died one painful death. Then had to go through another, later.
“White evangelical Protestants led the way, with 62 percent saying that torture can be justified.”
LMFAO!!!
That is some funny stuff right there!
Ya know why?
Because there is not much funnier than hypocrites.
About the only thing funny than a hypocrite is a hypocrite who rants and swears that (s)he is not a hypocrite, while it is plainly obvious to everyone else that the person is.
#
Mr_Kia
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Permalink
Daniel
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:58 pm | Permalink
Mr_Kia wrote:
Why can’t you argue a point without the use of pre-K nickname F@ck face?
——————-
Really? What information was the BTK trying to exact from his victims?
——————-
Terrorists/enemy combatants do so on their own volition as well.
=================================================
Are you nine-years old? Did your babysitter have to drive you down to Riverfest for lunch?
I was going to ask why you aren’t in school but judging by your reasoning capabilities, it’s obvious that you’re home schooled.
————————————————–
Keep my name out yo mouf.
==============================================
I see you’re back in full on brother man mode.
Keep it real.
Awight.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:26 am | Permalink
“HLP” –
What’s the forecast for tomorrow?
Suppose to be pretty good weather. Possibly a few showers tomorrow ending in the afternoon.
Good flying weather?
I’ve flown in worse.
What’s your ETA?
I ain’t coming, don’t worry about the ETA.
__________________________________________
Seriously, having a debate about “Whom would Jesus torture?” is about as intelligent and productive as having a debate about “which of the Olson twins Jesus would make out with”.
G’s up, H0es down.
Foe-shi zzle and what not.
4x’s to get that to post, Thank Blog Monitor!
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:12 pm | Permalink
G’s up, H0es down.
Foe-shi zzle and what not.
—————————————————-
Libs fools gettin jacked up at my takes my bruddah.
I’m jus keepin’ it real dawg, you know what I’m sayin?
#
brian_nuevo
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:11 pm | Permalink
Seriously, having a debate about “Whom would Jesus torture?” is about as intelligent and productive as having a debate about “which of the Olson twins Jesus would make out with”.
=============================================
Duh…..the skinny one.
“Nowhere in the Text does it state that Jesus used the whip on PEOPLE”—Chas
And nowhere does it say he didn’t!
From the link I provided it sure shows he did and I would consider Rembrandt much closer to the actual truth than you Chas, ha. That was a comic understatement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_024.jpg
The Matthew[21:13] would not have included, “and so, creating a whip from some cords, drives out the money changers”, if driving them out with a whip was not significant. Notice how Matthew didn’t say ‘he created a whip from cords but would never actually use it’. Your argument is ludicrous. But what’s new.
From the link I provided it sure shows he did and I would consider Rembrandt much closer to the actual truth than you Chas, ha.
============================
Looks like He’s whippin’ the schitt out of that old fugger!
Come to think of it though simply threatening with a whip would be very similar to water boarding in that neither will harm permanently, but is a threatening and frightening experience I would imagine having never experienced either.
#
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink
Come to think of it though simply threatening with a whip would be very similar to water boarding in that neither will harm permanently, but is a threatening and frightening experience I would imagine having never experienced either.
===============================================
Keep working it. Eventually, you’ll have these EIT’s reduced down to the level of a tickle party that got out of hand.
Whom would Jesus torture?
______________________________________
It’s a false question. Jesus was never charged with protecting a population against crazy bass tards.
EIT? Engineers in Training?
Yea that math is torture.
Eventually, you’ll have these EIT’s reduced down to the level of a tickle party that got out of hand.
=======================
Well,
Caterpillars were almost used…
#
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:38 pm | Permalink
Eventually, you’ll have these EIT’s reduced down to the level of a tickle party that got out of hand.
=======================
Well,
Caterpillars were almost used…
======================================
Most common answer on an engineering Math Test.
WTF!
“Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink
Come to think of it though simply threatening with a whip would be very similar to water boarding in that neither will harm permanently”
Kinda like rape…no permanent harm (well no more permanent harm than waterboarding), isn’t that right boxlock?
Not that kind Regular.
These are what the evil tortures almost used….Scoundrels!!
http://www.whatsthiscaterpillar.co.uk/Hairy/slides/fall1webworm_maybe.html
I think I may have nightmares after viewing this devilish critter.
#
ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
Not that kind Regular.
These are what the evil tortures almost used….Scoundrels!!
http://www.whatsthiscaterpillar.co.uk/Hairy/slides/fall1webworm_maybe.html
I think I may have nightmares after viewing this devilish critter.
=================================
Bastids!
I would have opted for the moth in the plastic bag stuffed in the mouth option.
Well, maybe not…
It was a fraternity thing…
Anyway…
(cough)
brian_nuevo
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:42 pm | Permalink
Kinda like rape…no permanent harm (well no more permanent harm than waterboarding), isn’t that right boxlock?
————————————————–
Push a lib long enough and they’ll reveal their true sense of logic. Which is none. Say anything do anything to get the socialist view across, no questions asked.
Comparing a enemy combatant to a rape victim.
Unbelievable.
“Eventually, you’ll have these EIT’s reduced down to the level of a tickle party that got out of hand.”
If tickling would work…then fine tickle them, if not other measures are called for. Whatever it takes to protect ourselves and our troops.
Here’s a little game to play in your head, I mean there is nothing going on in there anyway;
If we knew there was a suitcase nuclear device hidden in Wichita set to detonate as a grand scale terrorist act and we had the guy we were convinced knew where it was, when it was to detonate, and how to defuse it….would you torture the needed info. out of him to save us all?
Assume you say yes, then how far down the hierarchy of harm would it have to go before you said “hell no, I won’t torture him”.
Now be honest!
I’d like to know just how much death and destruction you would tolerate to stand on your ridiculous principal.
Boxlock labeled a fear monger in 3, 2, …..
“Kinda like rape…no permanent harm (well no more permanent harm than waterboarding), isn’t that right boxlock?”—brian
Again brian, you are a complete jackass!
What information does the rape victim have brian that could save others lives.
Sit down and shut-up, just read, you contribute nothing.
A suitcase nuclear device? Boxy, you should stop basing your ideas upon fictional movies. Perhaps you’ll wonder what we’ll do if aliens attack?
Maggotpunk
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:51 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
Damn, I’m good.
Here Box, let me re-word that for you.
If we knew there was a suitcase nuclear device hidden in San Fransisco set to detonate as a grand scale terrorist act and we had the guy we were convinced knew where it was, when it was to detonate, and how to defuse it….would you torture the needed info. out of him to save us all?
What an outlandish headline, and just the thing to call up the comments of all the religion-bashers! What a bunch of pond-scum diatribe here today!
For the record, Jesus came to SAVE people from the eternal torture of Hell. His Father will send those who do not accept His Son to eternal damnation. I don’t care whether you believe it, and neither does God the Father. He created Man so He would be surrounded by those who loved Him. Not by blind obedience, but by choice. So Man was given free will, knowing all along that many would reject Him. That’s just the way it goes, and part of His grand design.
Your choice.
Reg., you know me like a book!
In that case heck no…..no torture!!!
Regular
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:53 pm | Permalink
Here Box, let me re-word that for you.
If we knew there was a suitcase nuclear device hidden in San Fransisco set to detonate as a grand scale terrorist act and we had the guy we were convinced knew where it was, when it was to detonate, and how to defuse it….would you torture the needed info. out of him to save us all?
==============================
Pat him on the back?
No such thing as suitcase nukes:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2007-11-11-3794382756_x.htm
However there was one in the Get Smart movie. Someone ought to tell Boxy that it wasn’t a documentary.
Maggotpunk misses the point…..again.
sounds like you kids have been watching ‘24′ reruns again.
Don’t worry Anti, I’d call in G.I. Joe and Wolverine to deal with the problem. Fictional solutions for fictional problems.
‘24?
—————–
Never seen it, though it seems popular with the LIBs.
“suitcase nuclear device? Boxy, you should stop basing your ideas upon fictional movies. Perhaps you’ll wonder what we’ll do if aliens attack?”—Maggot
As usual you completely miss the point.
It was not the nature of the terrorist act but simply to start at the top of the list of hierarchy of harm and start descending.
The question for you to examine is when do you say no, and above which point have you said yes.
I would like to know how much death, destruction and pain, both physical and emotional, you will subject yourself and others to to make your ridiculous grandiose claims of moral superiority.
In the values for which the United States of America once stood, and in the values that are truly held in most Christian faiths, the end does not justify the means.
No exceptions.
No hypotheticals “well if the terrorist knew where the bomb is and wouldn’t tell us blah blah blah…”
Morals do not have exceptions.
“ANTI
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:58 pm | Permalink
…Never seen it…”
Really? It is on right after Hannity (same channel even).
BTW, are you one of ‘you kids’?
I’m guessing Maggotpunk will consider the UN a credible source?
Suitcase nuke (slang for Improvised Nuclear Device).
Exist? Hard to say. Possible (technology available), Yes.
http://www.wmdcommission.org/files/No2.pdf
Here we are getting security advice from the guys who want to build a missile shield to protect us from long range nukes from Al-Quaeda, and who invaded Iraq for the fictional nukes Saddam Hussein had. Now we need to protect ourselves from fictional suitcase nukes.
Yeah, come back when you guys have some credibility.
#
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 4:47 pm | Permalink
“Eventually, you’ll have these EIT’s reduced down to the level of a tickle party that got out of hand.”
If tickling would work…then fine tickle them, if not other measures are called for. Whatever it takes to protect ourselves and our troops.
Here’s a little game to play in your head, I mean there is nothing going on in there anyway;
If we knew there was a suitcase nuclear device hidden in Wichita set to detonate as a grand scale terrorist act and we had the guy we were convinced knew where it was, when it was to detonate, and how to defuse it….would you torture the needed info. out of him to save us all?
Assume you say yes, then how far down the hierarchy of harm would it have to go before you said “hell no, I won’t torture him”.
Now be honest!
I’d like to know just how much death and destruction you would tolerate to stand on your ridiculous principal.
=================================================
That’s an interesting
fantasyhypothetical you have rolling around in your head. How about I counter with some reality to balance things out for you:http://img1.picturewizard.com/1328E8C/0/02kcolxob.jpg
Why oh lord do I have to suffer such fools as Maggot who can’t understand even the simplest of imaginary parables?
Maggot, if you don’t understand what a parable is look it up.
Never mind, here I’ll help as you’ll need it.
A parable is a brief, succinct story that illustrates a moral lesson. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters.
“Why oh lord do I have to suffer such fools as Maggot who can’t understand even the simplest of imaginary parables?”
And of course the dunce Daniel.
you better reread. you gave a hypothetical example, not a parable.
“Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 5:09 pm | Permalink
Why oh lord do I have to suffer such fools as Maggot who can’t understand even the simplest of imaginary parables?”
And don’t forget…Jesus loves maggotpunk, daniel, and me as much as he loves you boxlock
Kia, apparently, according to the article, that full suitcase would weigh a ton. I suppose you can have the Jolly Green Giant carry it in.
The biggest worry is currently in Pakistan where extremists from Afghanistan are nearing the capital. Remember Afghanistan? It’s that place that Bush thought wasn’t important and focused all the efforts in Iraq, where there was known to be no nukes.
Boxlock20 wrote:
A parable is a brief, succinct story that illustrates a moral lesson. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters.
================================================
http://img1.picturewizard.com/1328E8C/0/facepalmjesus.jpg
Boxy, when you look up what a parable is come back and tell me how silly I am.
“Maggotpunk
Posted May 8, 2009 at 5:16 pm | Permalink
…It’s that place that Bush thought wasn’t important and focused all the efforts in Iraq, where there was known to be no nukes.”
But there is a lot of oil in Iraq. The Haliburton folks had to waterboard quite a few Iraqis to figure out the best places to drill for it, but they found it.
Oops, didn’t read the last part of your post. Well, if you are going to tell me a parable you might as well get started. You have yet to do so.
Brian, I guess Bush was worried terrorists were going to bring a suitcase of oil into America, and that oil wouldn’t be owned by Cheney.
“brian_nuevo
Posted May 8, 2009 at 5:12 pm | Permalink
…And don’t forget…Jesus loves maggotpunk, daniel, and me as much as he loves you boxlock”
And Jesus loves terrorists just as much as he loves you and me boxlock.
“Maggotpunk
Posted May 8, 2009 at 5:20 pm | Permalink”
lol.
If one can convince themselves it threatens the safety of America to have oil profits go to anyone but Cheney and his ilk, then that person can stand before the American people and tell them with a straight face having US troops in Iraq is protecting US citizens.
Bush bravely told Saddam that he better not set fire to those oil wells and quickly surrounded the Ministry of Oil will guards. That’s because everyone knows when there’s a war that all the American citizens hid in oil wells and oil related buildings.
Or he may have been concerned that there was a suitcase nuke hiding behind one of those oil drills.
“And don’t forget…Jesus loves maggotpunk, daniel, and me as much as he loves you boxlock”
You are absolutely correct brian, absolutely!!!
But I’m human and frequently…..I DON’T CARE FOR ANY OF YOU!!!
A parable is a brief, succinct story that illustrates a moral lesson…parables generally feature human characters.
A hypothetical example yes, but also a short story senario and done so to illustrate a moral lesson. The lesson….how far will you go in allowing harm to stand on a principle you may believe in. I think you are simply making a false self–righteous statement or assuption.
“And Jesus loves terrorists just as much as he loves you and me boxlock”
Again, You are absolutely correct brian, absolutely!!!
But I’m human and frequently…..I DON’T CARE FOR YOU OR FOR TERROISTS EITHER!!!
I love Aussies………..you do not mince words! Go man go!
‘If hooking up one rag/head terrorist prisoner’s test/icles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel/shagger will save just one Australian life, then I have only three things to say:
‘Red is positive,
Black is negative, and
Make sure he’s good and wet.’
“Make sure he’s good and wet.”
I’m sure you are, thinking about that little S&M Friday you love so much.
The boy’s master “HLP” stands me up again –
“I ain’t coming, don’t worry about the ETA.”
I’m stunned.
Outlander comes out with the astonishing claim that The Bible neither condemns nor condones torture since it says noting explicit about it.
Dude, using that logic, it says nothing about abortion either. Nor mainlining heroin. Nor cloning human beings.
Boxic,
“If we knew there was a suitcase nuclear device hidden in Wichita set to detonate as a grand scale terrorist act and we had the guy we were convinced knew where it was, when it was to detonate, and how to defuse it….would you torture the needed info. out of him to save us all?”
Curiouser and curiouser- how those very same people who ranted about the evils of “situational ethics” just a few years ago are now so ready and willing (anxious even) to sell out their formerly rigidly erect moral values for an admittedly fictional fantasy situation! Is this the second act of a script for a Christo-porn flick where the preacher rides to the last minute rescue with his little blue morality pills hidden in his bible?
Maggot,
The content of your comment at 6:04 pm never entered my mind of course, and still doesn’t except for what you said.
BUT….it did yours.
That should reveal to everyone how sick a pervert you are.
#
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 5:11 pm | Permalink
“Why oh lord do I have to suffer such fools as Maggot who can’t understand even the simplest of imaginary parables?”
And of course the dunce Daniel.
=============================================
I guess it’s just your cross to bear. Looks like your skipping victim status and going straight to martyrdom.
WeBlog,
Please note that not of one of the dim DimLibs will even begin to question themselves about, let alone answer, my hypothetical situation here.
They are hypocrites!!
“how those very same people who ranted about the evils of “situational ethics” just a few years ago are now so ready and willing (anxious even) to sell out their formerly rigidly erect moral values for an admittedly fictional fantasy situation!”–Jed
I have never once said I would not do whatever is necessary, including water boarding, to save American lives and, if I can keep from gagging here, even yours Jed if given the chance even though it involved things I find completely abhorrent.
I also claim you are a hypocrite and would do the same if faced with that tough decision.
I don’t know if you have an immediate family but why don’t you inform them of your lack of concern for their life and well being based on your absurd position and see how they react to that.
“I guess it’s just your cross to bear. Looks like your skipping victim status and going straight to martyrdom.—Daniel
With respect to you and a few other here….that’s a fair assessment.
Really? It is on right after Hannity (same channel even).
=========================
Really Brian…I don’t have cable or satellite so I don’t watch ‘that channel’….I’m a tight wad and an ass/hole. A few years ago I had satellite service with 7,980,567 channels but I spent most of my time flipping through them.
Ask Daniel, he’s also an ass/hole.
Jed
Posted May 8, 2009 at 3:55 pm | Permalink
Chas,
As I recall, she went on her parents’ volition.
==================================
Well, LOL, in that case it might have closely approached torture… And I hope they fired the errant preacher after it was over!! LOL
Ask Daniel, he’s also an ass/hole.
==============================================
Dam straight.
Although, I do have cable. I loves me some NHL playoffs.
#
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 10:14 pm | Permalink
“I guess it’s just your cross to bear. Looks like your skipping victim status and going straight to martyrdom.—Daniel
With respect to you and a few other here….that’s a fair assessment.
================================================
Keep on keepin’ on. With a little hard work, devotion, and a bit of divine intercession the Pope might even make you an official Saint.
Saint Boxlock20…..that has a nice ring to it.
Let’s see, you could be Saint Boxlock20, the Patron Saint of Pants-Wetting Hysterics.
Dam straight.
=====================
I expect I will be seeing you at the Club House next month for the presentation on ‘Poor Table Manners and Racial Jokes during Business Meetings’?
I believe Mel Gibson and Tits McGee will be presenting.
You should know all about that Daniel, the pants wetting anyway.
Whatever the Pope wants to do is fine with me…I trust him…..not you.
Well I’ve got a torture flight to attend, good night!
(We are using Candy Corn this time)
Oops, just checked the flight itinerary…we will be using these to torture:
http://www.analyticalq.com/myphotos/cat/kittens1.jpg
The two yellow ones get the best results, we have found.
I expect I will be seeing you at the Club House next month for the presentation on ‘Poor Table Manners and Racial Jokes during Business Meetings’?
I believe Mel Gibson and Tits McGee will be presenting.
=============================================
You know me all too well. For the life of me I can’t seem to keep my dammed elbows of the table when eating.
I heard that Tits won’t be able to make it. I think she’s supposed to be on vacation.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 8, 2009 at 7:22 pm | Permalink
Outlander comes out with the astonishing claim that The Bible neither condemns nor condones torture since it says noting explicit about it.
————-
I guess I’m not surprised you would be astonished with what is or is not in the Bible.
Actually the article that I posted was much more than your simplistic assessment, and gave a pretty fair analysis, assuming the reader isn’t a knee jerk wacko.
Boxic,
“I also claim you are a hypocrite and would do the same if faced with that tough decision.”
Well, I admit to torturing you, but that’s just for fun.
I assume in such a hypothetical situation that accurate info would be the necessary objective, and I at least know better than to trust any information tortured out of someone who may or may not know diddley about any hypothetical impossible bomb. It would seem to me that if you know for a fact that your suspect has information, you would necessarily have the facts that convinced you he did. Wouldn’t your obviously limited time-frame be better served by following those facts rather than whatever said suspect feeds you to stop the torture? Or is it your purpose like mine, to have a bit of fun at someone else’s expense?
Boxlock20
Posted May 8, 2009 at 8:01 am
….”Water boarding is of course torture, but does NO lasting physical harm, it is a proven successful technique, absolutely proven. To argue otherwise is to argue against documented fact, an unfortunate lib trait.”
Hmm — Sen McCain disagrees as does a majority of the senior leadership of the military — proven by who? you and Rush Limbaugh ?
According to the CIA dunderhead we have obtained valuable information directly related to preventing terrorists acts and harm to our troops, that is documented fact.
That is not even argued by anyone with knowledge on the subject. It is even conceded by Obama and others making hypocritical political points with it.
With others lives on the line protecting your sorry ass you can mouth off to your hearts content, but you,re are a liar and know it.
Indie….crawl back under your rock.
“Boxlock20″ declared –
“Water boarding is of course torture….”
George WMD Bush earlier declared –
The United States does not torture.”
Who are you CONs gonna believe?
I too, happen to think it has more to do with following their messiah Bush off a cliff.
But, those white evangelicals are also the ones who justified biblically the horrid treatment of blacks..
Political_Mama,
“But, those white evangelicals are also the ones who justified biblically the horrid treatment of blacks..”
And I suppose you even have one shred of proof to back up such a blantant lie?
“Nathaniel” –
Look into the origin of the Southern Baptist Church.
…, boy.
Waterboarding is torture?
Depends.
How was it done? Why was it done? What were the circumstances?
ANYTHING can be torture depending upon application and reasoning.
Simply saying that water boarding is torure just because it is called water boarding is simply absurd.
Those who were “water boarded” in SERE school and even more so in advanced SERE training were not tortured they were trained.
Of course the liberals don’t care about any of that, they just keep screaming torture like a bunch of little children with their hands over thier ears.
Nevermind that their leader Pelosi knew all about it from the start.
Will you liberals be calling for her to be tried as well?
Monkeybrains spews out this response with no thought:
“Look into the origin of the Southern Baptist Church.”
Why don’t you look into the orgin of the Southern Baptist church and explain how that supports Political Mamas lie?
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” tries –
“Why don’t you look into the orgin of the Southern Baptist church and explain how that supports Political Mamas lie?”
First of, there is no “Political_mama” lie.
B) I have looked into the, ahem, “orgin” of the Southern Baptist church so, unlike you, I know what I’m talking about, boy.
Try it sometime.
Monkeybutt,
Before you start, I know the history. The part of the claim Political Mama made was the “same” part which is crap.
Monkeycrap lets out another wet fart with:
“First of, there is no “Political_mama” lie.”
When she posts crap she knows to be:
A. (Notice how you start with A and not a B)
She posts such crap willingly knowing that she can’t back it up. It was a lie.
“B) I have looked into the, ahem, “orgin” of the Southern Baptist church so, unlike you, I know what I’m talking about, boy.”
B. (Now that there was an A I have a B, see how that works?)
The only thing you should know is that the things you dump out of your monekybrain are crap.
C. (Now I have a C too!)
Besides, can’t Political Mama fight her own battles or are you her little pet monkey now?
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” posted May 9, 2009 at 9:14 am –
“Monkeybrains….”
…then came bacl at 9:20 am with –
“Monkeybutt….”
I guess they don’t cover the “sticks and stones” part of personal threats in Marine camp do they, boy?
Keep trying.
Monkeybrains attempts:
“then came bacl at 9:20 am with –”
Sorry, you lost me with “bacl”
I am not sure I understand what that means?
When they were probing you and teaching you how to type, you little monkey, did they not teach you how to spell?
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” goes all manic chihuahua with –
“Monkeycrap lets out another wet fart with….”
People who actually pay attention to this forum might not that, as a subtly mild comedic effort, I frequently use the mixed outline format.
WHOOOOSH,” boy.
I’ll sometimes list points with –
I. ….
B. ….
iii. ….
Fourth. ….
V. …..
F. …..
vii. ….
Eighth. ….
IX. …. etc.
Perhaps you never noticed.
WHOOOOSH!
As far as “Political_mama’s” ability to “defend” herself, she really has posted nothing to “defend.”
Are you afraid if someone shows up in this forum to step in when a bully attacks a girl?
Keep calling me names, boy.
It’s all ya got.
You missed out on “monkeyhock” already and have taken to repeating your previously-hurled childish name-calls.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 9, 2009 at 9:18 am | Permalink
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” tries –
“Why don’t you look into the orgin of the Southern Baptist church and explain how that supports Political Mamas lie?”
First of, there is no “Political_mama” lie.
B) I have looked into the, ahem, “orgin” of the Southern Baptist church so, unlike you, I know what I’m talking about, boy.
Try it sometime.
==================================
Evidently, you didn’t look very long or hard at the history of the Southern Baptists.
The Southern Baptists had far more non-slave holders than slave-holders.
What the split with the Northern Baptists was about, was that the Northern Baptists refused to let Slave holders into the Baptist faith. The Southern Baptists said it was not their place to judge their fellow man on grounds of a moral issue and allowed membership of the same.
The biggest divide between Northern and Southern Baptists was about missionary work. Imagine that…
It’s a common misconception that the majority of Southern Baptists were pro-slavery. They were indeed not, but common people of the land that held no slave ownership.
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” squirms –
Monkeybrains attempts:
“then came bacl at 9:20 am with –”
Sorry, you lost me with “bacl”
I am not sure I understand what that means?
When they were probing you and teaching you how to type, you little monkey, did they not teach you how to spell?”
From an alleged Marine to a typo cop, huh?
Perhaps you never learned –
“I am not sure I understand what that means?” is not a question.
I am the Punctuation Police, boy.
Keep trying.
MonkeyExperiment gone wrong cries like a monkey being probed:
“Keep calling me names, boy.
It’s all ya got.
You missed out on “monkeyhock” already and have taken to repeating your previously-hurled childish name-calls.”
What is it exactly that you think you do to me almost every time you respond?
Just another typical hypocritical cry baby liberal…
“Regular” chimes in to defend the virgin prophet.
He hates it when I post in support of “Political_mama,” but probably welcomes your hope, Regular.
Poor boy needs all the help he can get, I guess.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 9, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
“Regular” chimes in to defend the virgin prophet.
He hates it when I post in support of “Political_mama,” but probably welcomes your hope, Regular.
Poor boy needs all the help he can get, I guess.
==========================
Or…
Just setting you straight, being as my family ancestry have been Baptists since Wales in the 1600s. :)
ProbedMonkey lets out a whine:
“He hates it when I post in support of “Political_mama,” but probably welcomes your hope, Regular.”
LOL
No, I pretty much don’t like it when you attempt to post in support of yourself or anyone else. I wouldn’t narrow it down to only support of Political_Mama.
(Although, I do admit, she needs all the help she can get.)
Who likes having monekysh*t thrown at them?
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” whines –
“What is it exactly that you think you do to me almost every time you respond?”
I. Good use of punctuation, boy.
2. That’s what?
C. One in a row?
iv. Is calling you “boy” name-calling?
Fifth. Isn’t that what your father calls you?
VI. Does your father call you “names?”
7. Or is it the “virgin prophet” thing?
G. What? You’re not a virgin?
ix. What does Jesus think about that?
X. Or is it the “prophet” thing?
11. Do you not think you speak God’s word?
L. On what basis, then, do you assume the power to declare people “not a Christian?”
“Regular” struts –
“…my family ancestry have been Baptists since Wales in the 1600s.”
Fine with me.
Nothing wrong with Baptists.
Except they don’t hold ‘em under water long enough.
MonkeyHawk,
You are lucky that Nathan is a tolerant and Christian Marine.
Most Marines I have met during my service time, would look you up and mash you to a pulp for your comments.
Constantly calling Nathan ‘boy’ would be enough for me to ‘knee-cap’ you.
CuriousMonkey stumbles across this response:
“Except they don’t hold ‘em under water long enough.”
I might say something similar in response to you, but in your case they probed you far too much.
Yuck. Got some of Monkey’s bigot spittle on me.
I think they put the Monkey back in his cage.
“Regular” announces –
“Constantly calling Nathan ‘boy’ would be enough for me to ‘knee-cap’ you.”
Look the hell out, “HLP.”
“Regular’s” gonna knee-cap you!
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 9, 2009 at 10:38 am | Permalink
“Regular” announces –
“Constantly calling Nathan ‘boy’ would be enough for me to ‘knee-cap’ you.”
Look the hell out, “HLP.”
“Regular’s” gonna knee-cap you!
===========================
No just you MonkeyHock…
Hank can call Nathan boy, because Nathan is his son.
You cannot.
Reggie,
“It’s a common misconception that the majority of Southern Baptists were pro-slavery. They were indeed not, but common people of the land that held no slave ownership.”
Yeah, I’m sure. And a lot of people who can’t possibly afford Cadillacs wish with all their hearts they had one.
I was there during the civil rights movement; we got screamed at, spit on, threatened with ax handles etc. by bible-waving southern baptists who even a century later were supporting the notion if not the fact of slavery. I was sitting in a southern baptist church in 1965 when the preacher offered a prayer asking god to “send an avenging angel to rid us of that awful Martin Luther Coon!”
Now, rewrite your history so that you come out on top, and tell us how the moral, upright and caring southern baptist church worked hard to end racial discrimination in southern schools, workplaces and in public life, will you? Tell us how you didn’t fight tooth and nail for the right to oppress your neighbor. Tell us how no southern baptists could ever have involved themselves in lynch mobs or bombed churches, or killed black children for looking the wrong way, or beat civil rights workers for registering black voters. Yes, tell us all about it!
“Regular” contends –
“Hank can call Nathan boy, because Nathan is his son.
You cannot.”
And why would that be, “Regular?”
Hank apparently named “Nathaniel” “Nathaniel.”
So I cannot call him that?
All this time I thought “boy” was a term of endearment. And the Virgin Prophet has always been one of my favorite posters to WE Blog; look at all the discussions we’ve had! Now you’re telling me “HLP” is constantly calling his son names simply because “he can?”
That sounds like the definition of a bully to me.
My daddy never called me “MonkeyHock.”
What gives you the right?
Looks like they are done probing the Monkey and let him back out of his cage…
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” shares another revelation –
“Looks like they are done probing the Monkey and let him back out of his cage…”
Sorry, boy. I don’t weigh on every post you make to WE Blog. Sometimes things interfere. In this case, a little thing called “breakfast.”
How narcissist of you to think I should hang on your every word.
Your
masterfather (the one who originally called you “boy,” just like his other lap dogs) reneged on a a meet-up today he’d previously agreed to.To borrow “Boxlock20’s” terminology, I’ve been “taken to school” many time about the
price of honor, “honor of ‘Price.’”There’s not a lot there when you look at it.
ProbedMonkey,
One can only be thankful that you would not throw your crap..er… “weigh on every post” they make.
And my father was looking for the Monkey. Perhaps the experiments ran too long that day and you didn’t make it?
Ooh Monk,
Nathan’s gonna sic his daddy on you after recess!
Careful there Price boy! Every time you melt down, more of you turns to slag.
Jed,
I see you are still the same old pathological liar as always.
If we were talking about Antartica I am sure you would have some anecdotal story about how you were there…
Price boy,
Antarctica? (check your spelling please).
Nope, haven’t been there, or even wanted to go, but I’ve known a couple people who have gone, both full-fledged members of The Order of the Puckered Penguin. If you really want, I could tell you some of their stories.
You really ought to try getting out of that basement you’re hiding in- there’s a real world out there, just full of stories and experiences for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. It’s called being human. Try it some time! As a dear friend of mine once put it, “Anything’s worth it if there’s a good story to tell afterward!”
Jed,
Well you sure are full of shi…er.. I mean stories to tell.
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” proclaims –
“…my father was looking for the Monkey. Perhaps the experiments ran too long that day and you didn’t make it?”
Just how does your
masterdaddy punish you when you lie, boy.“HLP” first agreed to meet me for lunch on April 30th, but later said he had to go to Oklahoma to rescue a puppy in peril. So we rescheduled a lunch for today… and he simply announced he wasn’t coming.
Now you, boy, know and I do not if “HLP” took a day trip to Oklahoma on April 30. Was that the day he
liedalleged he “…”was looking for the Monkey.” And told you “Perhaps the experiments ran too long that day and you didn’t make it”Check in with him and clear that up, boy. You probably should get your stories straight.
You’ve got a following building among the CONs. Your dad said he’d slug me if I ever mentioned again your step-mother is a quack. Ol’ “Regular” is confident, boy, ol “HLP” will knee-cap me if I ever again call you “boy.”
There’s a lot of “honor of Price” at stake here, not the least of which is your contention, “…my father was looking for the Monkey” and your lie that I “…simply didn’t make it.”
Price boy,
It’s called living. Get your nose out of your bible and into the sunlight and you might have a story or two worth telling to add to the human experience.
Aw…
Does the poor little Monkey have his feelings hurt?
Let me make it up to you.
How about you pick the date and time and I will pick the place.
Perhaps somewhere near the Colorado border?
So, when you don’t show up, I can be upset too.
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” tries –
“How about you pick the date and time and I will pick the place.”
Your
masterdaddy tried that ploy already, boy.The first meet-up agreement — which he agree to — was base on his busy schedule. Mine is much more flexible. And that’s what he agreed to. Until he had to go to Oklahoma as a puppy protector. (You remember, don’t you, how “HLP” traveled to Oklahoma on April 30th to rescue a different lap dog?)
And I’m on record as agreeing our second meet-up will be on the terms you’ve proposed. As I noted, your
masterdaddy and I have already communicated on that point. That was when he committed to a lunch today… which he later reneged on.And, if you’ll recall, I’ve offered to meet up with you — at the time and place you dermine if you’ll take me to your church services so I can get saved, boy.
Whatever happened to that, boy?
MonkeyButt,
Whatever deals you made or didn’t make with my father are between you and him.
Whatever it was, he has your crying, so it must be good.
And, if you’ll recall, I’ve offered to meet up with you — at the time and place you dermine if you’ll take me to your church services so I can get saved, boy.
Whatever happened to that, boy?
=============================================
No way. Is this true?
Monk,
It’s a lost cause. “HLP”, “Regular” and “Nathaniel,” and no doubt a few others, are all alters of the same sorry Dissociative Identity Disorder sufferer, Igor Otten. If he ever actually showed up somewhere off-line, it would blow his phychosis into the next century.
Jed,
Realy? Would you like to meet somwehere and test your little theory?
MonkeyBrains,
I am pretty sure I told you then, but just in case:
I don’t have any interest in meeting you.
Price boy of the many nics,
And which of you basement stalkers would I be meeting?
Sorry, but I have much more interesting people to see.
Jed,
Well, don’t make baseless accusations you can’t back up and have no interest in finding out the truth about.
Hey Price boy,
My “accusations” aren’t baseless; they’re based on all those posts you and your alters put up here, and it’s mostly boring nonsense. Unfortunately nonsense, no matter how boring ought to be opposed. That doesn’t mean I have any desire to be bored in person. Bye bye, buy bonds.
Jed,
Nothing I have ever posted would lend any credibility to your claims that:
” “HLP”, “Regular” and “Nathaniel,” and no doubt a few others, are all alters of the same sorry Dissociative Identity Disorder sufferer, Igor Otten. If he ever actually showed up somewhere off-line, it would blow his phychosis into the next century.”
Nathan,
Everything you post gives credence to your being something other than the persona you attempt to project. The simple fact that you took that post as literally factual says a lot more about you than anything I said. One more reason to not hang with you.
These are the people the LIBs defend and think deserve rights the same as US citizens:
http://www.theync.com/media.php?name=9294-new-video-from-taliban
Ant,
Gee whiz! That looks almost as bad as what christians did to people when they were in charge of governments! Although beheading was usually reserved for condemned nobility; accused common people suffered a lot longer at the hands of the church.
ANTI
Posted May 9, 2009 at 3:30 pm | Permalink
—
Grrrrr. Frickin’ d*psh*t.
Your link, you idiot, gave my Mac 2 different Trojan spies and one worm. I have just now been able to find and remove them — after about 2 hours of drop everything work.
Fark, you are a M E A T H E A D for posting that link without warning, you podunk amateur idiot sh*t-for-brains.
Get a clue or get lost.
Unbelievable. Nathan, you are DENYING that it was religious southern whites who just so happened to be in so support of slavery that they voted to secede from the union kill other Americans over it? Do you deny the existence of the KKK too?
I may think of you as a lot of things Nathan, but I never thought of you as a racist too. Perhaps I was wrong. Only racists defend other racists.
I don’t need someone else fighting my battles, but I do appreciate someone stepping in to dispute your lies or denial or whatever it is that you delude your brain with.
Some day when we are discussing who supported torture in the horrible tragedy of America that was BushCo- I suppose you’ll claim it wasn’t white christian protestants who supported Bush too?
I suppose you’ll tell your grandchildren if any woman ever decides to take your crazy self, that you weren’t a part of that war too?
The reason why I wasn’t here to defend myself, Nathan, is that my liberal government handout lazy self was sleeping after working about 70 hours this week.
Political_mama
Posted May 9, 2009 at 8:50 pm | Permalink
Unbelievable. Nathan, you are DENYING that it was religious southern whites who just so happened to be in so support of slavery that they voted to secede from the union kill other Americans over it?
========================================
You should really study history more in depth Pmama.
Slave owners controlled politics and economics. Two-thirds of the Southern whites owned no slaves and usually were engaged in subsistence agriculture.
Out of the Southern popululation, just over 300,000 were slave owners. The majority of the 6,000,000 white populatin were subsistance farmers or merchants.
To the fault of their own doing, most average white citizens prospered better than their Northern counterparts. This caused an unnatural support of the Southern Aristocratic slave holders so their economic standing would remain.
This support had nothing to do with religion, far from it.
Do you deny that they were protestant whites? They also did use their bibles to justify their beliefs.
I don’t deny that most southerners were not slaveholders, but they sure had no love or care for the slaves in their state.
They supported the poor treatment of slaves.
Lets put it this way Regular, you don’t fight the war right now, but you support it and vote in favor of policies that keep the war going.
Same thing in the south during slavery. The white non slaveholders may have not owned slaves personally, but they had no problem voting to keep those n’s beaten and subjected.
#
Political_mama
Posted May 9, 2009 at 10:09 pm | Permalink
Do you deny that they were protestant whites? They also did use their bibles to justify their beliefs.
I don’t deny that most southerners were not slaveholders, but they sure had no love or care for the slaves in their state.
They supported the poor treatment of slaves.
========================================
Don’t deny they used the Bible to justify their beliefs, but not in the way you think.
Protestants probably held the majority of the population, but there were also Jews, Moravian religious sects, Catholic and other denominations that were not Protestant. Of course, most of the populous, as it is today, was largely secular.
By secular, I mean that they weren’t members in good standing with their church and they did not practice the conventions taught by their faith. They may have turned to God when in trouble, but in the same turn would blame God if they got in trouble.
Some historians give the figure of 80 percent of the Southern, White population was Southern Baptist. After thirty years of genealogical study, I find this number to be inaccurate. For the very reason that I have looked at actual church rolls and attendance, the actual numbers show a much lower percentage of those who were regular church members in good standing.
My estimation and based on my sampling of Baptist populations in North Carolina and Virginia was less than twenty percent were consistent church attendees of Baptist Churches.
I also found that the census and historians did not differentiate between Missionary Baptists, Free Will or Southern Baptists – they tended to count them as one group. They are independent denominations that hold varying beliefs.
Political_mama
Posted May 9, 2009 at 10:12 pm | Permalink
Lets put it this way Regular, you don’t fight the war right now, but you support it and vote in favor of policies that keep the war going.
———————————-
By the ‘War’ I assume you mean Iraq and Afghanistan?
No, I don’t support the war, but I do support 110 percent, the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who do fight in those wars.
Reggie,
“This support had nothing to do with religion, far from it.”
Then why may I ask, did southern white preachers preach so many sermons to black slaves about the heavenly rewards for being obedient to their masters? Why did southern white churches allow the Klan to use their facilities for meetings and recruitment? Why did all those ugly southern christian rednecks wave their bibles and ax handles and scream verses at us to justify Jim Crow? And why did southern baptist preachers offer up prayers asking for the deaths of black leaders? Pray tell us why brother Falwell refused to allow people of color into his church until 1967, well after civil rights came to the south? And your friend Rev. Pat Robertson give his unashamed support to Apartheid in South Africa while spewing god’s hatred at Nelson Mandela? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!
Couldn’t possibly be racism now, could it?
Oh and reggie,
“The name “Southern Baptist” stems from its having been founded and rooted in the Southern United States. The SBC became a separate denomination in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, following a regional split with northern Baptists over the issue of slavery.” -Wikipedia-
Guess which side the southern baptists were on?
Wow Regular, you just downright admitted that the data doesn’t support you.
Revisionist history doesn’t work.
#
Jed
Posted May 9, 2009 at 10:52 pm | Permalink
Reggie,
“This support had nothing to do with religion, far from it.”
Then why may I ask, did southern white preachers preach so many sermons to black slaves about the heavenly rewards for being obedient to their masters? Why did southern white churches allow the Klan to use their facilities for meetings and recruitment? Why did all those ugly southern christian rednecks wave their bibles and ax handles and scream verses at us to justify Jim Crow? And why did southern baptist preachers offer up prayers asking for the deaths of black leaders? Pray tell us why brother Falwell refused to allow people of color into his church until 1967, well after civil rights came to the south? And your friend Rev. Pat Robertson give his unashamed support to Apartheid in South Africa while spewing god’s hatred at Nelson Mandela? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!
Couldn’t possibly be racism now, could it?
======================================
Not sure where you get your sources Jed, but I used primary source records from places like State Archives and secondary source materials from period newspapers, church records, census records, civil war diaries and records.
Let’s address the KKK first. The first Klan was founded in 1865 by Tennessee veterans of the Confederate Army. So you see Jed, the KKK didn’t exist during the Civil War or prior to it.
I would love to read sermons by old Southern preachers. Are you aware of any archives? They are few and far between from what I’ve researched.
Jed asks:
Why did all those ugly southern christian rednecks wave their bibles and ax handles and scream verses at us to justify Jim Crow?
I didn’t realize you were that old Jed. What was it like in the 1860s? If you mean in modern times, I dunno – evidently you had a bad encounter with some racists. I can assure you, in the dozens of Baptist churches I’ve been a member of, none of the members would wave their Bibles or scream verses at you. I don’t think ax handles were in vogue either.
I think you are mixing the last 100 years of racism with what happened during the Civil War, Jed.
Try and concentrate on what I was writing about.
Was there racism after the Civil War? Yes, of course there was and probably at a more guttural level than during the Civil War and before.
What shocked me most growing up was that subtle racism had a more profound effect than overt racism. That is, racism that was institutionalized in schools, jobs and other areas. I couldn’t make sense of it and saw no reason for it.
An eye opener on how different population were classically racist is that in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas, Blacks were segregated to a degree they were seldom encountered or dealt with on a daily basis. When I made my first trip to Chicago at a young age, I was shocked to see Blacks being forced to sit in the back of the bus, separate water fountains and toilets for Blacks – restaurants and hotels that didn’t allow blacks.
Because I had lived in mostly small, segregated towns, this wasn’t readily apparent. But the overt projections of racism in large cities such as Chicago, came as a shock to me.
I began thinking about it and welcomed the integration of Blacks when it happened in schools. I thought to myself at the time, “Why did it take so long? What was the problem?
My ancestors were part of the Underground Railroad since its early formation, thirty years before the Civil War.
I feel sorry for the Black population these days as they’ve had to re-invent themselves into today’s society. Wanting to be proud of their heritage and wanting to part of an integrated society. It’s an extremely difficult task.
With that said, some of the most stand up, righteous and fair minded people I have ever met have been Black. Military service made me recognize the individual rather than their skin color. The stars and bars on their shoulders or the stripes on their sleeves, held precedence over all other characteristics. Many a pleasant conversation were had back in the day.
So Jed, what would you really like to concentrate on? I read your rant, but am somewhat confused by your mixing different periods of time, different types of people and generally making erroneous conclusion with broad sweeping accusations.
Surely Jed, you can focus and do much better than your last entry.
Reggie,
“I feel sorry for the Black population these days as they’ve had to re-invent themselves into today’s society. Wanting to be proud of their heritage and wanting to part of an integrated society. It’s an extremely difficult task.”
What more needs saying? You really don’t see yourself, do you?
So Jed,
Sandy Creek Baptists in North Carolina were revivalists. In Georgia, Landmark and Primitive Baptists were what you think of original Southern Baptists. And in Texas, Baptists of all flavors, generally disagreed with each other on any subject. :)
What’s funny Jed, is that the real issue at the 1845 Augusta Convention is whether or not Slave owners could be missionaires. That’s a far cry from what is usually panhandled to the public. :)
Baptists back in the day prior to and during the Civil War were quite diverse. They even had separate conventions to discuss their separate denominal beliefs.
It’s not all cut and dried as you think Jed. Labeling every Baptist in the old South as Southern, while being geographically correct, gives no clue on what their congregration or beliefs consisted of.
#
Jed
Posted May 9, 2009 at 11:37 pm | Permalink
Reggie,
“I feel sorry for the Black population these days as they’ve had to re-invent themselves into today’s society. Wanting to be proud of their heritage and wanting to part of an integrated society. It’s an extremely difficult task.”
What more needs saying? You really don’t see yourself, do you?
——————————-
Why?
Because I see an on going struggle with the Black population? I see myself as I see myself. What you brand me as, is your doing, or should I say s myopic view of who I actually am.
#
Political_mama
Posted May 9, 2009 at 11:05 pm | Permalink
Wow Regular, you just downright admitted that the data doesn’t support you.
Revisionist history doesn’t work.
———————-
I can see why you flunked out of nursing school Pmama. You are very adept at reading comprehension are you? :)
Reggie, you’re already in over your head. Stop digging!
#
Jed
Posted May 9, 2009 at 11:53 pm | Permalink
Reggie, you’re already in over your head. Stop digging!
————————
Why do you say that? I wrote a 300 page manuscript on the history of Baptists about twenty years ago. It took many years of research. :)
Reggie,
Okay, keep digging. Maybe the Chinese will know what to do with you.
#
Jed
Posted May 9, 2009 at 11:58 pm | Permalink
Reggie,
Okay, keep digging. Maybe the Chinese will know what to do with you.
———————-
Keep digging about what?
Sorry if you can’t keep up – I do have an advantage over you of actually researching the subject for many decades.
If you want to see what happened in the Old South as related to the Baptist Church, let me know, I can help you out.
BTW, an interesting side note form the 19th century – I had a Baptist Minister ancestor who lived in Illinois who was a Missionary Baptist. I also had an ancestor from North Caroline who was a Missionary Baptist. Their preaching styles, denominational beliefs on predestination, among other topics were quite different.
“Some historians give the figure of 80 percent of the Southern, White population was Southern Baptist. After thirty years of genealogical study, I find this number to be inaccurate. For the very reason that I have looked at actual church rolls and attendance, the actual numbers show a much lower percentage of those who were regular church members in good standing.”
————————————————
This was your data, that you brought up. So you readily admit that Southern Baptists were the predominant religion in the south. It does not matter whether or not they attended church.
You bringing nursing school into it was a very low blow when I have said nothing to insult you. I don’t care what kind of douchebag you are in real life. I don’t doubt you revise, obviously because I did not fail out of nursing school and you already knew that.
But by all means, when your arguments fail, attack me.
You do realize you sound pretty brain damaged don’t you, trying to make some semblance of a logical argument when you’re using illogical rationale.
Political_Mama,
“Unbelievable. Nathan, you are DENYING that it was religious southern whites who just so happened to be in so support of slavery that they voted to secede from the union kill other Americans over it?”
Um, No. Did you even read my response? What I said was that your claim that they were the SAME as those today who are for torture.
Nothing you have posted supports such a claim.
“Do you deny the existence of the KKK too? ”
No.
“I may think of you as a lot of things Nathan, but I never thought of you as a racist too. Perhaps I was wrong. Only racists defend other racists.”
Where have I defended any racists here? For someone concerned about logic and not attacking another poster you sure have a funny way of showing it with such strawman arguments.
“I don’t need someone else fighting my battles, but I do appreciate someone stepping in to dispute your lies or denial or whatever it is that you delude your brain with.”
And more personal insults not even closely related to the subject. Besides, I was just giving MonkeyBrains the same crap he gives everyone else. I wouldn’t really care if every liberal on this blog was here in your defense or not.
“Some day when we are discussing who supported torture in the horrible tragedy of America that was BushCo- I suppose you’ll claim it wasn’t white christian protestants who supported Bush too?”
Many people supported Bush. No one supported torture either. We were interrogating terrorists and your Democrats like Pelosi were told all about it.
“I suppose you’ll tell your grandchildren if any woman ever decides to take your crazy self, that you weren’t a part of that war too?”
I was a part of the war. The very same war that Obama continues to support and is expanding in Afghanistan you liberal Kool-Aid drinker.
“The reason why I wasn’t here to defend myself, Nathan, is that my liberal government handout lazy self was sleeping after working about 70 hours this week.”
Good for you. Perhaps you could teach some of that to BJ?
You seem to think that fixing your administration’s mess is supporting. It isn’t. Not even close.
You absolutely do support torture. You just want to re-define it to justify it. I’m sure the racists didn’t call themselves racists either.
You are master wordsmiths, trying to convince yourselves that the sky isn’t really blue. Cerulean isn’t blue, right?
Don’t you exhaust yourselves with the twisting and turning and distortion?
Political_Mama,
“You seem to think that fixing your administration’s mess is supporting. It isn’t. Not even close.”
Huh?
“You absolutely do support torture. You just want to re-define it to justify it. I’m sure the racists didn’t call themselves racists either.”
Um, you are the one playing word games and acting like denying someone cable TV is torture. Not me. What we did to 3 terrorists could hardly be called torture except for by the most liberal nitwits like yourself who are more concerned with attacking Bush for anything you can than protecting this country. Nevermind the fact that your leaders in Congress were also briefed on what was being done and said little if nothing at all.
“You are master wordsmiths, trying to convince yourselves that the sky isn’t really blue. Cerulean isn’t blue, right?”
Not really, no.
“Don’t you exhaust yourselves with the twisting and turning and distortion?”
Do you?
Waterboarding is torture. You cannot put it under another nice little term and change what it is.
If you support doing that then you support torture.
Pelosi was briefed more than a month AFTER Condi and Gonzo independently decided to start torturing. Even at that time Pelosi wasn’t told they were torturing, but that it was being considered legal.
Now if I said that killing someone wasn’t legal, but they were considering making it legal in certain circumstances…does that mean that I supported and knew about a specific murder?
Come on Nathan, give it up.
I guess by Nathan’s definition of “most liberal nitwits’ he means 71% of America. Glad to know we’ve reclaimed America.
http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-times-cbs-news-poll-obama-s-100th-day-in-office#p=1
“Waterboarding is torture. You cannot put it under another nice little term and change what it is.”
Since it is so black and white, you think we should be prosecuting every President who served while we water boarded our own troops in SERE school and advance SERE school?
It was torture, right? No matter how you word it, it is wrong, right?
So we should be going after Clinton too, for allowing such torture?
Sorry, but simply because it is called waterboarding doesn’t make it torture. How it is applied, under what circumstances, and for what purpose is what makes it torture.
“Pelosi was briefed more than a month AFTER Condi and Gonzo independently decided to start torturing. Even at that time Pelosi wasn’t told they were torturing, but that it was being considered legal.”
Wow, now look who is playing the games. What did Pelosi think they were going to do when they were briefing her on waterboarding being legal and a technique they were prepared to use?
“Now if I said that killing someone wasn’t legal, but they were considering making it legal in certain circumstances…does that mean that I supported and knew about a specific murder?”
If this was your attempt at an analogy you failed miserably.
“Come on Nathan, give it up.”
Come on Political_Mama, give me a good argument.
“Sorry, but simply because it is called waterboarding doesn’t make it torture. How it is applied, under what circumstances, and for what purpose is what makes it torture.”
When applied as an ‘Enhanced Interrogation Technique” yes it is TORTURE. That’s why it is used for interrogations!
You know, Pelosi was probably like the rest of us, we knew they were talking about it, but for god’s sakes, we’re supposed to be better than that. She probably thought like I did that they were testing the waters, but surely our leader would not be such a scumbag to order it be done.
Why were they using it before bringing it before the House Intel Committee? Obviously they didn’t feel the need to bring anyone else’s ok in on it before they did it. Bush, Condi, and Gonzo acted like Dictators…they didn’t need no stinkin ok from any congressional committee, now did they?
As long as they deemed it to be ok- now why do you think suddenly they’d ask Pelosi and the other committee members?
My analogy was dead on. And you know it.
And yes it is still torture even in training. They’re teaching you how to deal with situations, but that doesn’t make it suck any less- even if they know they’re not going to die from it. Which the whole word “Torture” means that you don’t know when it will end or if it will end or if it will kill you. Just like police officers who have to get tazed and have to get maced, they don’t like it trust me, but they do it to learn what it will feel like if done to them and how to react. But they also go into it knowing that someone is going to help them and make sure they’re ok.
still sucks just the same. By the way, did ole Hannity ever put his dickhole where he said he would and go through the waterboarding? Probably not, the big wuss.
Well reggie, let’s see now. You stated upthread that most of the professed christians in the south, before and during the civil war weren’t actual christians “in good standing.” I’d probably put that figure at damn near 100%, both then and now, and extend it to northern christians and then take it world-wide. In my lifetime, I’ve only met one or two that I considered real christians. The rest of you simply tailor and/or reinterpret scripture to fit your pre-existing prejudices. The only other explanation for christians’ ongoing ill behavior toward their fellow men and women would be to assume that christianity was corrupt ab initio, and I’d rather not believe that. Whatever Jesus was about, I don’t think he had in mind what christianity as practiced over the centuries has become.
“You know, Pelosi was probably like the rest of us, we knew they were talking about it, but “–P_mama
No buts about it….Pelosi is an out and out liar.
Nathan,
Torture is torture, and while I recognize it as a good old christian tradition that you inherited mostly from the Romans, I would hope that maybe we’ve progressed just a bit over the last two millennia.
And I’m all for rule of law too. Torture is illegal, both here and internationally, and whoever breaks the law ought to be prosecuted; those who ordered it done, and those who followed those orders. We’ve already established the precedent that following orders is not a valid excuse for committing crimes.
Regarding SERE, they did volunteer, and brought their own towels, so it seems to be more of an attempt to instill reflexive masochism than to extract confessions from or punish our military personnel (I may be wrong there), so it probably doesn’t quite fit the definitions. That doesn’t make it right.
C’mon, now –
Pat Roberts got reelected last year claiming his national security briefings prevented revelation of stuff they’d learned.
We know anyone who came out of those security briefings and spilled the beans would have been branded as “traitors.”
We also are learning the CIA (et al) spun their reports to congresscritters — claiming their torture tactics were “approved” but not being used. They were lying, of course.
The utter desperation of CONs trying to wiggle out from under Shrub’s “America doesn’t torture” lie is remarkable to watch. Some CONs hold on to the lie that “waterboarding isn’t ‘torture.’”
Or that it is torture but SARE training means it’s okay.
The fact the US executed Japanese officials for war crimes because they waterboarded is passed off by CONs because… because… what was it? I’ve forgotten.
Oh, yeah. It’s not covered under the Geneva Conventions because we’re not at war in the “War on Terrorism,” which is the justification for George WMD Bush unilaterally invading Iraq.
I dunno.
This might end up being how a zillion ants can kill an elephant with all sorts of attacks.
But ants are mindless clones of their social structure and have nothing to do with the CON approach to governance.
Oh, wait….
A couple of things I’ve noticed in this mostly worthless, emotion driven thread.
There is no agreed definition of torture, so that everyone is talking about the same thing.
A lot of folks who have no trouble with killing terrorists, do have problems with making them feel uncomfortable.
Boxic, Nathan,
I have said it before and I’ll say it again; anybody in a position of power, of whatever political party, who ordered or approved the order to torture prisoners, or “render” them to others for the purpose of torture, has broken the law, just as those who followed such an order did. Giving them a get-out-of-jail-free card means that our laws mean nothing.
#
outlander
Posted May 10, 2009 at 9:00 am | Permalink
A couple of things I’ve noticed in this mostly worthless, emotion driven thread.
There is no agreed definition of torture, so that everyone is talking about the same thing.
A lot of folks who have no trouble with killing terrorists, do have problems with making them feel uncomfortable.
================================================
No agreed upon definition of torture? Of course there is.
Agreed to and signed by the Reagan administration in 1988 and ratified by the United States Senate in 1994.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture
#
Jed
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:31 am | Permalink
Well reggie, let’s see now. You stated upthread that most of the professed christians in the south, before and during the civil war weren’t actual christians “in good standing.” I’d probably put that figure at damn near 100%, both then and now, and extend it to northern christians and then take it world-wide. In my lifetime, I’ve only met one or two that I considered real christians. The rest of you simply tailor and/or reinterpret scripture to fit your pre-existing prejudices. The only other explanation for christians’ ongoing ill behavior toward their fellow men and women would be to assume that christianity was corrupt ab initio, and I’d rather not believe that. Whatever Jesus was about, I don’t think he had in mind what christianity as practiced over the centuries has become.
========================
Not quite…
As then, as it is today, most who claim to be Christian are secular who have been exposed to Church, but have no commitment to it. Claiming a convenient membership in a church, for the sake of appearance is not the same as a commitment to a church and it’s denominational philosophies.
We’ve all seen then, you know, the people who show up twice a year at Easter and Christmas ceremonies. :)
Not quite…
As then, as it is today, most who claim to be Christian are secular who have been exposed to Church, but have no commitment to it. Claiming a convenient membership in a church, for the sake of appearance is not the same as a commitment to a church and it’s denominational philosophies.
We’ve all seen then, you know, the people who show up twice a year at Easter and Christmas ceremonies. :)
===============================================
So what you seem to be saying, if I am to understand you correctly, is that you essentially agree with President Obama’s statement in Turkey that the United States is not a Christian nation?
#
Daniel
Posted May 10, 2009 at 9:43 am | Permalink
Not quite…
As then, as it is today, most who claim to be Christian are secular who have been exposed to Church, but have no commitment to it. Claiming a convenient membership in a church, for the sake of appearance is not the same as a commitment to a church and it’s denominational philosophies.
We’ve all seen then, you know, the people who show up twice a year at Easter and Christmas ceremonies. :)
===============================================
So what you seem to be saying, if I am to understand you correctly, is that you essentially agree with President Obama’s statement in Turkey that the United States is not a Christian nation?
=================================
Not quite – the influence in the U.S. is Christian as in Turkey it is mostly Muslim.
The center that people hold onto or reject is based on Christianity.
My rides here, gotta go…
A christian as defined by Regular- isn’t that nice that Regular gets to define who is a christian and not?
Hey, tis Sunday, Regular why aint you at church?
Uh reggie,
Not quite? For all practical purposes you rephrased what I said. Of course you are also including yourself among the saved?
#
Regular
Posted May 10, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink
#
Daniel
Posted May 10, 2009 at 9:43 am | Permalink
Not quite…
As then, as it is today, most who claim to be Christian are secular who have been exposed to Church, but have no commitment to it. Claiming a convenient membership in a church, for the sake of appearance is not the same as a commitment to a church and it’s denominational philosophies.
We’ve all seen then, you know, the people who show up twice a year at Easter and Christmas ceremonies. :)
===============================================
So what you seem to be saying, if I am to understand you correctly, is that you essentially agree with President Obama’s statement in Turkey that the United States is not a Christian nation?
=================================
Not quite – the influence in the U.S. is Christian as in Turkey it is mostly Muslim.
The center that people hold onto or reject is based on Christianity.
My rides here, gotta go…
==============================================
I think that most in this nation, the ones you concede only show up in Church on Easter and Christmas, would disagree. The founders of this nation didn’t found a Christian theocracy, they founded a democratic republic which is based on democratic principles which pre-date Christianity by at least hundreds of years.
For instance, how many of the Ten Commandments are currently enshrined in law in the United Stats today?
Be careful Daniel, if they have to hear the truth about themselves, they’ll melt.
Let them live in their alternate reality.
P-Mom,
No, if they hear the truth about themselves, they’ll cut off their ears and then shoot the messenger.
Jed,
“I have said it before and I’ll say it again; anybody in a position of power, of whatever political party, who ordered or approved the order to torture prisoners, or “render” them to others for the purpose of torture, has broken the law, just as those who followed such an order did. Giving them a get-out-of-jail-free card means that our laws mean nothing.”
Good thing we didn’t torture anyone.
Your point?
Jed,
“Torture is torture, and while I recognize it as a good old christian tradition that you inherited mostly from the Romans, I would hope that maybe we’ve progressed just a bit over the last two millennia.”
I inherited no such tradition and neither do “Christians” in general either.
“And I’m all for rule of law too. Torture is illegal, both here and internationally, and whoever breaks the law ought to be prosecuted; those who ordered it done, and those who followed those orders. We’ve already established the precedent that following orders is not a valid excuse for committing crimes.”
Ok, but no one broke the law and no one was tortured.
“Regarding SERE, they did volunteer, and brought their own towels, so it seems to be more of an attempt to instill reflexive masochism than to extract confessions from or punish our military personnel (I may be wrong there), so it probably doesn’t quite fit the definitions. That doesn’t make it right.”
So, as you said, torture is torture? Right? So all those involved in the SERE program should be punished? Right?
Daniel
Posted May 10, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink
I think that most in this nation, the ones you concede only show up in Church on Easter and Christmas, would disagree. The founders of this nation didn’t found a Christian theocracy, they founded a democratic republic which is based on democratic principles which pre-date Christianity by at least hundreds of years.
For instance, how many of the Ten Commandments are currently enshrined in law in the United Stats today?
========================================
I never said the U.S. was founded on theocracy, it was based on Christian ideas and philosophy. It certainly wasn’t Islamic ideas and philosophy. :)
As far as the Ten Commandments being posted – you leftist extremists act like it’s some sort of vampire garlic and something might rub off to kill you.
Hell Nathan-Good-thing-we-didn’t-torture-anyone, just reading them your convoluted excuses about how it ain’t torture but we should do it anyway would fall under the Geneva Conventions definition of torture!
Of course we tortured prisoners; even Dick Cheney said we did! And Dicky Bird ought to be worried too- he’s square in the crosshairs of any prosecutions and lawsuits that may come of Gitmo, Abu Graib et al.
You have no idea how much I appreciate your posted total disregard of the law, morality and just plain human decency. Thanks so much for all that high caliber verbal ammo to shoot back at you over the coming months and years!
What exactly is Nathan’s definition of torture. This I’ve got to hear.
Ask your daddy if they did that to a dog, would he be ok with that?
Better yet, next time Nathan is in Iraq, perhaps he should be captured and subjected to their ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’, and when they say ‘no its not torture at all’ he can argue with them what torture is.
I guess Nathan has left the building.
#
Regular
Posted May 10, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Permalink
Daniel
Posted May 10, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink
I think that most in this nation, the ones you concede only show up in Church on Easter and Christmas, would disagree. The founders of this nation didn’t found a Christian theocracy, they founded a democratic republic which is based on democratic principles which pre-date Christianity by at least hundreds of years.
For instance, how many of the Ten Commandments are currently enshrined in law in the United Stats today?
========================================
I never said the U.S. was founded on theocracy, it was based on Christian ideas and philosophy. It certainly wasn’t Islamic ideas and philosophy. :)
As far as the Ten Commandments being posted – you leftist extremists act like it’s some sort of vampire garlic and something might rub off to kill you.
================================================
Regular,
Read carefully, please. I said nothing about publicly posting the Ten Commandments. How many of the Ten Commandments are currently codified in US law? Thou shall not steal and kill, sure, but what about the rest?
Please tell me about the Christian principles which are found in the Constitution and the first ten amendments.
Pedant
Posted May 9, 2009 at 8:49 pm | Permalink
=====================
Sorry Pedant,
My $0.99 Dell had no problem with the link, otherwise I would have not posted the link.
I think your Apple is just a dirty tramp, that’s why you got a virus.
I gotta go.
Have fun.
First Amendment to the Constitution
If the United States were set up as a Christian Nation would it grant equal rights to all religions?
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…”
Treaty of Tripoli, article 11
A 1797 treaty between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, ratified by the US Congress and signed by President John Adams. (more)
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen…”
That simply states this country was not founded on Christian principles, but as a Republic under democratic (Not Democrat) rule of law. In fact, if one reads the words of Ben Franklin, John Adams, James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, ones comes to just the opposite conclusion as to this countries founding as a Christian nation: It was founded under the rule of law.
Note to the secular left…
I didn’t not say U.S. government was founded on religious principles, I said the United States was.
Most of the early colonies were founded for religious freedom and principles. This had great influence on the building of the U.S.
As I previously mentioned, the U.S. was largely secular as it is today.
But one cannot deny the profound influence of Christians in the early U.S. To do so, would be denying early U.S. History.
“Regular” weasels –
“I didn’t not say U.S. government was founded on religious principles, I said the United States was.”
I guess it depends on the word “was” was.
And still, it’s wrong.
The “United States” were created (That’s how they called the nation; plural. It wasn’t until after the Civil War the usage changed to “The United States is….” by the Articles of Confederation.
Some of the colonies had official state religions. Rhode Island was created as a Baptist state. Maryland’s official religion was Roman Catholicism. Pennsylvania was the Quaker State. There wasn’t a lot of religious persecution, but some sects got dibs in some states until the First Amendment was ratified.
Roger Williams was exiled from Massachusetts because he didn’t toe the Calvinist pilgrims’ theology.
Thanks for making my case MonkeyHawk,
You did leave out quite a bit of history though of Christian influence on the U.S.
Interesting take on the origins of the term ‘the United States.’
Where do you suppose that the founders got these words in the preamble of the Constitution?
We the People of the United States …establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Did they have a time machine and port themselves to the Civil War era? :)
“But one cannot deny the profound influence of Christians in the early U.S. To do so, would be denying early U.S. History.”
Yeah, the British empire was officially Christian and that influenced America to go the secular route.
#
Maggotpunk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 6:15 pm | Permalink
“But one cannot deny the profound influence of Christians in the early U.S. To do so, would be denying early U.S. History.”
Yeah, the British empire was officially Christian and that influenced America to go the secular route.
===========================
The British, before the U.S. declared independence had a State religion and which is why many left England and its other countries for the colonies to exercise their freedom of religious choice not imposed by a state.
“Regular” squirms –
“Did they have a time machine and port themselves to the Civil War era? :)”
“WHOOOOOSH”
Reread my post. The post-Civil War commented on the difference between Americans saying, “…the United States are…” vs. “…the United States is….”
Your smug little smilie is now a frownie. ;-(
Other secular based land companies were:
London Company covered a more southern territory and proceeded to establish the Jamestown Settlement. The Plymouth Company under the guidance of Sir Ferdinando Gorges covered the more northern area, including present-day New England, and established the Sagadahoc Colony in 1607 in present-day Maine. The River Colony (Connecticut), Benjamin Borden of Virginia.
The Ohio Company of Virginia, the Indiana Company, the Illinois-Wabash Company, and the Transylvania Company were all secular land grabbing adventures in the Ohio territory.
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 6:25 pm | Permalink
“WHOOOOOSH”
=========================
Try to construct a sentence in a clear manner and mean what you intended to write.
You’re sundowning again, “Regular.”
(Not an uncommon phenomenon among those with brain damage.)
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 6:31 pm | Permalink
You’re sundowning again, “Regular.”
(Not an uncommon phenomenon among those with brain damage.)
=============================
Not really, I just recognize verbose, ‘run-on’ sentences like you write and never pass along the message for which they were intended.
I see upthread where Regular is now also an expert in Baptist History in the USA, via genealogical studies…
The man holds more expertise in more subject areas than anybody on the Blog… even when he doesnt… LOL
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. -John Adams
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. -John Adams
————
Walker’s quote above caused me to do a little looking around. Interesting additional quotes by John Adams that shed a little more light on the thoughts of a founder. Our constitution clearly was founded with the expectation that the governed would be who they were, described in quote one as: “a moral and religious people”.
This commonality is why we have been able to have limited government. Loss of freedom can be expected when the governed do not have a common set of principles. That is what we are starting to see now.
The secular-progressives would remove all vestiges of Judeo Christian morality form our government. Yet, they cannot deny our religious heritage and our success as a nation. Therein lies the battle. Sorry, that’s what it is. Will this conflict lead us to the end described by Adams in his second quote?
Outlander, that wo9uld most likely be why this nation has never been a democracy, dont ya think?? We are known as a representative republic… Check out Jefferson… he disagreed a lot with Adams… And, further, go back upthread and read the quote from the Treaty of Tripoli….
And then stop trying to foist off your revisionist history…
#
Chas
Posted May 10, 2009 at 6:50 pm | Permalink
I see upthread where Regular is now also an expert in Baptist History in the USA, via genealogical studies…
The man holds more expertise in more subject areas than anybody on the Blog… even when he doesnt… LOL
———————
Never said I was an expert Chas, those are your words. I did write a 300 plus page manuscript on the history of the Baptists and how my family fit in with that. Took many decades of research to accomplish. I learned a lot.
The secular-progressives would remove all vestiges of Judeo Christian morality form our government.
Can anyone guess what this statement even means?
Come, Outie, give your examples “Judeo Christian morality” in governnment, and how it differs from plain ol’ morality.
And then give even one example “secular progressives” trying to do away with it.
The sheer incoherence of what follows will likely prove be to quite entertaining.
“The British, before the U.S. declared independence had a State religion and which is why many left England and its other countries for the colonies to exercise their freedom of religious choice not imposed by a state.”
Britain had religious freedom, some separatists fled England because they wanted freedom from religion. They came to America and began persecuting others just like they were persecuted back home. When they came to America they landed in Provincetown and thanked God that a plagued had slaughtered all the Natives and left them a perfectly livable village.
What does all this have to do with religious freedom? Nothing really. The first colony to provide religious freedom was Rhode Island.
Britain had religious freedom
====================================
The Church of ENGLAND.
Yes Anti, everyone had the freedom to religion, provided it was the Anglican church. I’m often been reminded by fundies that there is no freedom from religion, so what were the Pilgrims complaining about?
Maggotpunk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Permalink
==========================
Ur Dumb….I don’t think I can say anymore than that.
Outlander, who won the fight on whether or not America would be a christian nation or a secular nation? Remember, just like now, they fought each other and there were religious people fighting against secularists in the decision on how to run this new country of ours.
Who won? Who had the most votes to pass the wording?
I think your clue is in the first amendment.
That’s right Anti, that’s what I told the fundies, but with a lengthier explanation. I’m glad you and I agree the fundies in America are stupid.
Come, Outie, give your examples “Judeo Christian morality” in governnment, and how it differs from plain ol’ morality. –
———–
You’re kidding, right? Although, I think that I would better have used “society” rather than government.
So the ever cerebral Rage, who posts a picture upthread of a horribly tortured person and captions it to blame the Christian God, asks me how “plain ol’ morality” is different from “Judeo-Christian morality”.
I dunno Rage how about, one is a man’s subjective opinion and the other is God given?
We have agreed once Maggotpunk, it was not on this thread.
#
Maggotpunk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 7:40 pm | Permalink
Yes Anti, everyone had the freedom to religion, provided it was the Anglican church. I’m often been reminded by fundies that there is no freedom from religion, so what were the Pilgrims complaining about?
——————————-
You’re kidding right?
Evidently, you haven’t read the history of Ireland, Wales or Scotland.
#
Political_mama
Posted May 10, 2009 at 7:44 pm | Permalink
And I’ll tell you this. If waterboarding is a christian principle and God approves, please let me go to hell so I can stay away from all of you.
I’ll gladly go to hell where the nice people are.
——–
I posted this on the wrong thread.
And another thing, if the Muslims are also the ones doing these things in the name of their god,and they happen to be right? Where would you prefer to be…in heaven with them, or hell?
With me?
I think hell would be having to hang out with you fundies, but I guess you’d have no reason to be fundies anymore now would you.
It is VERY revealing of the cons here.
The links they will go to to justify torture or call torture something else?
It goes to much deeper issues that they have.
Conservatism is a social dysfunction.
Political_mama Supports sawing heads off of different believers and stoning gays to death.
It is clear.
BlueJay
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:18 pm | Permalink
It is VERY revealing of the cons here.
==================================
Much more revealing of the LIBs.
“It’s not ME you’re disagreeing with! It’s GOD!“
I may have been unfair to the Virgin Prophet. He’s no less a pharisee than the Prophet “Outlander.”
(That always seemed a bit hinkey as a nym. But I digress….)
Look, CONs:
In matters of American politics, the moment you play the God Card, you’ve lost.
Yeah, there’s a slogan on your nickels and yeah there’s that amendment to the flag salute. And “there are no atheists in foxholes” (although there are plenty of ‘em), and Jesus had twelve disciples so the metric system is Satan’s work (the 10 Commandments is another issue altogether)… but the simple reality of how the Constitution of the United States of America says you can worship anybody and just about any way (ganja and peyote, not so much) you want.
But God doesn’t get a vote in the United States Congress.
He can lobby. He can advise. But no vote.
Would a President Romney immediately outlaw Coca-Cola? Probably not. Because even Mittens gets it a little bit.
Would philandering thrice-divorced President Gingrich enact his newly-embraced Catholicism and take marching orders from the Pope? I’d guess not.
Would a President Brownback require us all to wear an officially-sanctioned Opus Dei barbed-wire jock-strap? I’ll get back to you on that; I’m not sure.
Americans have seen way too much of cafeteria fundies picking and choosing Bible verses to support their political prejudices:
“Pro-’Life’ and Pro-Death Penalty.”
“African Americans bear (through their dark skin) ‘The Mark of Cain’” — Thanks, Joseph Smith!
“Sell everything you have and give to the poor.” (Oops, Jesus. Not gonna do it.)
“Butt-boinking and/or a quickie bl*j*b are abominations…just like a shrimp cocktail or a double-cheeseburger.” Thanks, Leviticus, for clearing that up! As I so often say to twice-borns, “Yeah, I’ll have fries with that.”
“Political_mama” –
“I’ll gladly go to hell where the nice people are.”
As Mark Twain said:
“Heaven for the climate. Hell for the company.”
Fundamentalist Heaven sounds like San Diego with a lot of bad television.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:26 pm | Permalink
“Political_mama” –
“I’ll gladly go to hell where the nice people are.”
As Mark Twain said:
“Heaven for the climate. Hell for the company.”
Fundamentalist Heaven sounds like San Diego with a lot of bad television.
————————–
And there was the ‘Nothing’.
#
ANTI
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:25 pm | Permalink
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
That is why I leave God out of it Monkeyhawk and just go after evil full force…
Because you people b@stardize every thing.
Mainly because you have nothing.
Go for it, “ANTI!” –
Your “heaven” consists of Tammy Faye Bakker singing for a third of Eternity. Be sure to take it with you so you can send in love offerings.
Rage
Posted May 10, 2009 at 7:02 pm | Permalink
…The sheer incoherence of what follows will likely prove be to quite entertaining.
————–
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:20 pm | Permalink
…But God doesn’t get a vote in the United States Congress.
He can lobby. He can advise. But no vote.
Would a President Romney immediately outlaw Coca-Cola? Probably not. Because even Mittens gets it a little bit.
Would philandering thrice-divorced President Gingrich enact his newly-embraced Catholicism and take marching orders from the Pope? I’d guess not.
Would a President Brownback require us all to wear an officially-sanctioned Opus Dei barbed-wire jock-strap? I’ll get back to you on that; I’m not sure…
————
Well, it took a while Rage, but I see what you you were predicting.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 10, 2009 at 8:38 pm | Permalink
Go for it, “ANTI!” –
Your “heaven” consists of Tammy Faye Bakker singing for a third of Eternity. Be sure to take it with you so you can send in love offerings.
============================
No, it doesn’t.
You know when you win the argument soundly, the cons go crazy right?
Political_mama,
I think between you, Monkeyhawk, and Maggotpunk, we’ve seen Kooky enough.
“Political_mama” notes –
“You know when you win the argument soundly, the cons go crazy, right?”
I sometimes feel so guilty, “Political_mama.”
I mean, when “ANTI’s” best response is:
“No, it doesn’t,” the CONs move into Monty Python territory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k
Well, I have to go get my boat rigged for tomorrow, so you little fish keep nippin’!
I mean, when “ANTI’s” best response is:
“No, it doesn’t,” the CONs move into Monty Python territory.
=====================
Monkey’s is a link, what a pu$$.
Peace out.
Lots of posts on here. Here is my word clouds showing trends:
http://www.wordle.net/gallery/wrdl/834241/Whom_would_Jesus_torture%3F
You’re kidding, right?
Nope. You make a buffoonish claim, you back it up.
Although, I think that I would better have used “society” rather than government.
Since they’re two completely different things, that’s hardly a small distinction. But you didn’t answer the question.
I dunno Rage how about, one is a man’s subjective opinion and the other is God given?
I see. So you’re saying that morality outside of religion is just “subjective opinion.” The extreme arrogance of that view tends to clash sharply with the humility that Jesus taught.
In the real world, people of good will of course to do not rely on religion alone to guide their moral choices. Leaving aside the centuries of evil done in the name of a God or Gods, it takes a pretty delusional mind to conclude that religious texts provide definitive answers to life’s moral questions, while any reliance on well-considered facts, and the moral sense we were supposedly given by God is just “subjective opinion.”
Back in the days of Kings, the monarch ruled by Divine Right: questioning the judgment–let alone the morality!–of the King was both blasphemy and treason.
In truth, morality emerges from society as a whole and, to the extent religion teach morality (and it’s got a pretty spotty track record), it’s indistiguishable from any other social influence, i.e., “subjective opinion.”
But if you are to insist that morality comes from God alone, well, again, who’s God? The Catholics? The Raelians? The People’s Temple?
To argue that the moral sense disappears without religion–seriously–inexorably implies that no moral sense exists in the first place.
Rage,
“I see. So you’re saying that morality outside of religion is just “subjective opinion.” The extreme arrogance of that view tends to clash sharply with the humility that Jesus taught.”
Not exactly. Morality, outside of a standard set by God, is simply whatever you want it to be. Call it subjective opinion if you want to. I am not sure what makes that opinion any more or less arrogant than yours. Even more, I don’t see how that clashes with any humility that Jesus taught. Jesus believed in the truth. On many occasions he blantantly told his disciples, people, and the Pharasee that they were wrong.
“In the real world, people of good will of course to do not rely on religion alone to guide their moral choices.”
What is “good will?” What are “moral choices?”
You see, this is where that whole subjective opinion part comes into play.
“Leaving aside the centuries of evil done in the name of a God or Gods, it takes a pretty delusional mind to conclude that religious texts provide definitive answers to life’s moral questions, while any reliance on well-considered facts, and the moral sense we were supposedly given by God is just “subjective opinion.”
Life’s moral questions? What are those?
What is a “moral sense?”
“In truth, morality emerges from society as a whole and, to the extent religion teach morality (and it’s got a pretty spotty track record), it’s indistiguishable from any other social influence, i.e., “subjective opinion.””
People have a pretty bad record. Not God. What is morality? You claim it emerges from society as a whole, yet, what then makes societies morality any better than some random individuals who conflicts?
Are you arguing that simple majority makes morality?
That if today 51% of society thinks something is moral, it is moral and that if next week 51% of society thinks what was just moral isn’t any more it is not?
This is exactly what we are talking about. What is morality if not merely subjective opinion if it is merely based on the whims of society?
“But if you are to insist that morality comes from God alone, well, again, who’s God? The Catholics? The Raelians? The People’s Temple?”
Jesus is God.
Jesus isn’t god he even says so. He is the son of god, or so he says.
But I’m not going to debate trinity, we’ve been down that road.
God also has a bad record of morality if you ask me. He advocates many bad things to happen to people instead of just simply fixing the horrible things, he advocates people killing one another in his name.
P-Mom,
“God also has a bad record of morality if you ask me.”
If you’ll remember, god was the guy who set up his own son to be tortured to death. Some “God the Father,” huh! Not to mention all those other acts of god that have killed millions of innocent people.
How can God have a bad record of morality?
To have such a view, you must believe that your standards are greater than Gods. And what is it that makes your morality better than Gods and what makes you right?
What an absurd statement.
Jed,
Jesus knew his destiny and accepted it. God didn’t “set Him up”
And if it is God killing people, then how can they be innocent?
If we are talking about God, then He is a rightous God and those he is responsible for killing are not innocent.
What makes you think your standard for innocence is greater than God’s?
Hey Nathan,
I’m assuming that a standard of morality is absolute; isn’t that what you christians preach? If it’s absolute, not even god would be exempt from his own code. Thou Shalt Not Kill, remember? We don’t want to slip down the slope of moral relativism, do we? “When I do it, it is the law!” -Nixon-
The virgin prophet “Nataniel” came down from the mountain and spake –
“And if it is God killing people, then how can they be innocent?”
Sort of the Richard Nixon approach to omnipotence, I guess.
Seems like God has a given a lot of innocent people Pestilence, War, Famine, and Death; they sometimes seem like his favorite clubs in the bag.
Actually Nathan, my God would have more morality than your biblical God.
Kindof like you seem to think that your god has more morality than Allah.
Even though its the same god.
Nathan,
By the way, I’m sure Jesus was just wild about getting hung out to dry! So much so he sweated blood?
Hey Nathan did your dad ever say we could waterboard his dog?
Jed,
The verse more correctly says: Thou Shalt not Murder.
And your argument falls apart after that…
Political_Mama,
“Actually Nathan, my God would have more morality than your biblical God.”
Your god? Just who is your god? Let me guess, it is that god of whatever makes you feel good at whatever particular time…
“Kindof like you seem to think that your god has more morality than Allah.”
It is not that my God has more morality than Allah, it is that there is only one true God and the one the Muslims claim to worship isn’t it.
“Even though its the same god.”
Hardly. Of course, coming from someone who doesn’t believe in either of them, you don’t have much to talk about or offer in this area.
Nathan,
“The verse more correctly says: Thou Shalt not Murder.”
I’m sure you’ll always translate it so you come out smelling sweet, to yourself at least!
Jed,
It is rather simple actually. If you look at the word used, where it is used elsewhere in the Bible, you will easily see that it is Murder which is prohibited, not simply any killing.
Which is why your argument is based on a false pretense.
P-Mom,
“Your god? Just who is your god?”
Just wait ’til he gets to them pearly gates and sees Her standing there with her arms crossed, tapping her foot!
false premise…
They are the same god Nathan, from the same source, all of the same players.
Same as the Jewish god. Just because you stole the Jew god, doesn’t make yours more correct.
It is the only ‘true’ god in your eyes because you believe that to be so.
My god wouldn’t do such hateful things as yours did- even if it was once upon a time. And Jesus = God is kindof silly.
“To have such a view, you must believe that your standards are greater than Gods.”
Speaking just for me?
I exist. God does not.
Nathan,
Okay then, how many “killings” will god hold you responsible for? Be honest now.
I’m going to play ‘find the discrepancy’ with Nathan.
1. Why did Moses not see god nor Jesus on Mt Sinai?
2. Why didn’t God use Titanium on the tablets of the commandments?
3. Why didntwe hear about Jesus in the old testament? Dont give me no david nonsense.
4. If the new covenant was the ‘new rules’ because God changed his mind… why do you still hold the commandments to be important?
5. If you’re not supposed to murder, why was murder still so prevalent?
6. Why is there absolutely no indication of trinity in the bible, but rather almost always the opposite?
Nathan is probably having a coronary over all of my blasphemy.
Its ok Nathan, all I’ve got to do is ask God to forgive me, drink a little wine and eat a cracker and all will be good, right? When I see Jesus, I’ll do just that.
Nathan,
“If you look at the word used, where it is used elsewhere in the Bible, you will easily see that it is Murder which is prohibited, not simply any killing.”
Ooh, going down that road are we? If that’s the case, I might also point out that the Greek word Paul uses and you christians translate as “homosexual acts” (for which the Greeks had no word, not making the distinction), in nonbiblical examples translates by context as the tradition that you christians so charitably refer to as “Temple prostitution.” That translation also fits Paul’s contexts too.
P-Mom,
1. He was too busy taking dictation?
2. Titanium wasn’t scheduled for discovery for another 3500 years.
3. How long before you got pregnant did you know you were gonna be?
4. Because the Word of god is still the word, even when it isn’t anymore. That’s the problem with absolutes!
5. Why do people smoke pot if it’s illegal?
6. Because three-way gay weddings didn’t get around to happening until the 4th century.
P-Mom,
Actually, I think you’ve got to eat Jesus and suck his blood before you’re right with god. Yes, I know, pretty icky, but you didn’t expect pink champaign now did you? Communion is for cannibals!
Excuse me- champagne.
Apparently Nathan’s gone off to cogitate a bit.
Jed can’t get enough topics on attacking Jesus.
Say, Wichita Eagle, can you please set up a permanant topic for Chirst Haters?
(You need to do whatever it takes to get your stock price higher then 71 fric kin cents! What a looser news rag you are!)
Attack Christians now Brownlee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(See how far your HATE for Christians takes you.)
Freaking a bit there Jim Jones?
Keep your Koolaid away from me.
Why don’t you take a stab at those questions.
Even better, please set up a permanent topic for Jed and Brownlee to attack Christians.
They can pair up in eternal he ll together.
Funny, huh?
Pmom, YOU answer the questions first.
Then I will.
Deal?
I didn’t think so.
Pmom,
You can’t answer your own questions?
What an imbecille you are!
Pmom,
Just tells us why you hate Jesus so much.
Come on, play your own game.
Or maybe, you can’t play your own game of hate if your are confronted.
Pansy Bi tch.
Ahhh,
500+ posts on the Hate Jesus topic.
Keep it up Brownlee, I’m sure your hate will take you far.
heh,
Those questions by PMom…
I can see why she flunked out of pre-nursing school.
Jimbo,
“Jed can’t get enough topics on attacking Jesus.”
I know this may be far too subtle a distinction for you to comprehend, but I don’t ever recall attacking Jesus. I have no problem with him; I attack you christian hypocrites. And enjoy every minute of it too!
“jim”
Do you consider yourself a good representative for Christians?
See, I’m asking because I kinda turned my back on the faith when I was 8 and people like you make me sure I was right.
And Jimbo,
At the top of your browser there should be a spell-check tab. Learn how to click it.
JR,
You are still 8.
Your post here show your level of development.
I hope someday, you reach 9.
Yeah “Jim” I KNOW Christians can call names and rant and rave. What else ya got?
See cause it is spring cleaning time. I got this bible that my Dad was given on his retirement.
I can’t think of a reason in the world not to throw it out.
It’s Very Telling to note how Chas failed to defend Jesus in this topic.
Chas has failed to defend Christians before, but this topic, is a direct attack on Christians.
Chas, failed again.
Phony Preacher.
Case closed.
Chas, you are a scurge on humanity. Do you feel comfortable being the right hand of the Devil? Does that really make you feel better to be on the side of Evil?
There’s nothing I can imagine that is more evil, then someone who POSES as a Christian Pastor, and rebukes the name of Jesus.
Chas, do you not care about the salvation of your own soul?
It’s apparent you don’t care at all about saving others and spreading the Word, but do you not even care for yourself?
Chas, you are one pathetic excuse for a human being.
BJ,
I hope someday, you come to know Jesus.
Until then, do you truly have to continue to disparage others who do beleive?
Where is your compassion?
Where is your caring?
You have none.
You care for nothing beyond yourself.
Small world you live in. Do you focus completely on the fleas within your own box in which you live?
If I stripped off the cover and shredded the pages, the thing would probably compost. Then I could say I garden in “holy ground”.
Jimbo,
Judge not, lest ye be judged?
In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Let GOD arise and let His enemies be scattered: and let them that hate Him flee from before His Face!
As smoke vanisheth, so let them vanish away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the Presence of GOD (Ps 67:1-2). Judge Thou, O’ Lord, them that wrong me: overthrow them that fight against me.
Let them be confounded and ashamed that seek after my soul. Let them be turned back and be confounded that devise evil against me. Let them become as dust before the wind: and let the Angel of the Lord straighten them. Let their way become dark and slippery: and let the Angel of the Lord pursue them.
For without cause they have hidden their net for me unto destruction: without cause they have upbraided my soul.
Let the snare which he knoweth not, come upon him: and let the net which he hath hidden, catch him: and into that very snare let him fall. But my soul shall rejoice in the Lord, and shall be delighted in His Salvation (Ps 34:1, 4-9).
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.
O’ Most Glorious Prince of the Heavenly Armies, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the battle and in our wrestling against principalities and powers against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places (Ephes 6:12). Come to the aid of men, whom GOD created incorruptible, and to the Image of His own Likeness He made him (Wis 2:23); and from the tyranny of the devil He bought him at a great price (Cor 7:23).
Fight the battles of the Lord today with the Army of the Blessed Angels, as once thou didst fight against lucifer, the leader of pride, and his apostate angels; and they prevailed not: neither was their place found anymore in Heaven. But that great dragon was cast out, the old serpent, who is called the devil and satan, who seduceth the whole world. And he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him (Apoc 12:8-9).
Behold, the ancient enemy and murderer strongly raises his head! Transformed into an angel of light, with the entire horde of wicked spirits he goes about everywhere and takes possession of the earth, so that therein he may blot out the Name of GOD and of His Christ and steal away, afflict and ruin into everlasting destruction the souls destined for a Crown of Eternal Glory. On men depraved in mind and corrupt in heart the wicked dragon pours out like a most foul river, the poison of his villany, a spirit of lying, impiety and blasphemy; and the deadly breath of lust and of all iniquities and vices. Her most crafty enemies have engulfed the Church, the Spouse of the Immaculate Lamb, with sorrows, they have drenched her with wormwood; on all her desirable things they have laid their wicked hands.
Where the See of the Blessed Peter and the Chair of Truth have been set up for the light of the gentiles, there they have placed the throne of the abomination of their wickedness, so that, the Pastor having been struck, they may also be able to scatter the flock. Therefore, O’ thou unconquerable Leader, be present with the people of GOD and against the spiritual wickedness which are bursting in upon them; and bring them the victory.
The Holy Church venerates thee as its Guardian and Patron; and it glories in the fact that thou art its Defender against the wicked powers of earth and hell. To thee the Lord has assigned the souls of the redeemed to be placed in Heavenly bliss. Beseech the GOD of Peace to crush satan under our feet, that he may no more be able to hold men captive and to harm the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that the mercies of the Lord may quickly come to our aid, that thou mayest seize the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and satan and that having bound him, thou mayest cast him into the bottomless pit, so that he may no more seduce the nations (Apoc 20:3).
Hence confiding in thy protection and guardianship, by the sacred authority of our ministry, we confidently and securely begin the task in the Name of Jesus Christ our GOD and Lord, of driving away the attacks of diabolical deceit.
Blue,
Don’t do that- they come in handy from time to time, when the funny fundies start misquoting scripture out of context.
“Where is your compassion?”
You show me yours, I’ll show you mine.
“Where is your caring?”
I don’t like that you jumped down my friend political mom’s throat there guy.
And how about the treatment Chas gets from people who call themselves Christian here?
I think I said WAY upthread, how is it that the hand of God endured torture and did NOT hit back and his followers seem to embrace torture as ok?
That’s one STRANGE religion you got going. Glad I aint a party to it.
Jed
Posted May 12, 2009 at 11:19 pm | Permalink
Jimbo,
Judge not, lest ye be judged?
=====
You ask for contect, then provide your context.
You want perfect spellin Jed, then provide your own.
This is a blog. Not a daycare.
Ooops. Might be wrong about that.
BJ,
You are not a party to anything other then the party of handouts.
Good luck with finding some real friends.
You blog 24/7.
Ever wonder why nobody calls or comes over and interrupts your 24/7 blogging?
YOU claim to be of the party that claims compassion and tolerance of diversity. Do they not claim you?
Hey Jimbo,
I can copy-and-paste too! Try this one on for size.
“The War Prayer
by Mark Twain
It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.
Sunday morning came — next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams — visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation
*God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!*
Then came the “long” prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory —
An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, “Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!”
The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside — which the startled minister did — and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:
“I come from the Throne — bearing a message from Almighty God!” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import — that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of — except he pause and think.
“God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two — one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this — keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.
“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory–*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
“O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it — for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
(*After a pause.*) “Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!”
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
Here is where I am at.
I don’t find anything redeeming or even remotely interesting coming from the cons.
They are just plain not nice people.
They also claim to be the best representatives of the faith.
The liberal in me allows that there ARE actually good, faithful people.
But there ARE no good cons. No not one.
And so, my repudiation for the Christian church is once again reaffirmed.
BJ,
You claim to show this blog to your son.
Does your son wonder why you spend so much time online, and not so much time with him? Or time working? Or time doing anything other then blogging?
Please JR,jr, ask your Dad, why is he online 24/7 and not doing anything constructive with his life?
“Jim” you’re projecting.
No one knows you and you switch nics.
As a representative for your faith AND your ideals you are a dismal failure here.
Guilt JR.
It must be a btich to live with.
How does it feel to be incapable of taking care of your own?
How does it feel to have nobody claim you?
JR, nobody claims you.
You think your Dems claim you?
Sad. Very sad.
Have a nice life JR.
I’m sure, if I look back at this blog in a week, a month, a year, or 5 years from now, that you JR, will still be here tipin away.
Do’in nuthin.
Good luck with your life JR.
Your tombstone can reflect all of your accomplishments with one word: Blogger.
Happy with that?
I will be very pleased to share with my son what you and I have exchanged here “Jim”.
Say JR, jr,
Ask your Dad if he does anything other then bloggin all day.
Then ask him why he’s not very successful at being able to earn enough money to live a normal life, and pay for you and your needs.
Maybe, just maybe, there’s hope for JR, jr.
Yeah well I’ll only have one nic there “jim”.
JR, hold your breath for 2 minutes.
What? You can’t?
Why not?
What keeps you breathing?
No JR, you have more then one Nic.
But please do keep trying diversions.
Blue,
“As a representative for your faith AND your ideals you are a dismal failure here.”
I don’t recall Jimbo ever once expressing anything that could possibly be mistaken for either faith or ideals. He’s just an ordinary garden-variety failure.
Why do you breathe JR?
Can you not answer?
No big deal, right? Even tiny creatures breathe.
Why do they breathe?
Just wonderin.
If it’s not such a big miracle, then just stop breathing for 10 minutes. Go ahead. Try it.
You post away about your God here “jim”. I’ll let my kid read it. I encourage him to.
Jed
Posted May 12, 2009 at 11:45 pm | Permalink
I don’t recall Jimbo ever once expressing anything that could possibly be mistaken for either faith or ideals.
===========================================
No, I never pretended to be a preacher.
Chas has.
Jed, do you ever have anything intelligent to post?
BlueJay
Posted May 12, 2009 at 11:46 pm | Permalink
You post away about your God here “jim”. I’ll let my kid read it. I encourage him to.
================
Well good. He obviously will not learn about God from you.
Why don’t you send him to visit Chas every Sunday?
It’s all up to you “jim”.
I’m set to throw the bible out. It takes up space and does not toil or spin.
Your witness? I’m a busy man.
Goodnite everyone, and have sweet dreams of Hope.
Each day going forward will be even more glorious then the last!
Obama will soon build his own kingdom, right here on Earth!
I am so inspired and filled with optimism at the hope the future now brings.
Everynight before I go to sleep, I read this. Obama inspires me oh so much!
“I should like to help everyone if possible; Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, black men, white, red, and yellow. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each others’ happiness, not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men’s souls; has barricaded the world with hate; we live in misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Industry that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge as made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than wealth we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. Modern communications and technology have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in man; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all.
Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women, and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me, I say “Do not despair.” The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.
Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!
In the seventeenth chapter of St. Luke, it’s written “the kingdom of God is within man”, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people, have the power, the power to create prosperity, the power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power.
Let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men and women a chance to work, that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie!
They do not fulfill their promise. They never will! Evil rulers free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world! To do away with national barriers! To do away with greed, with hate and intolerance! Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness.
Citizens of the world, in the name of democracy, let us all unite!
People can you hear me? Wherever you are, look up! The clouds are lifting! The sun is breaking through! We are coming out of the darkness into the light! We are coming into a new world; a kind new world, where men and women will rise above their hate, their greed, and brutality. Look up!
The soul of mankind has been given wings and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow. Into the light of hope! Into the future! The glorious future! That belongs to you, to me, and to all of us. Look up, everyone! Look up!”
Goodnite everyone, and have sweet dreams of Hope. Each day going forward will be even more glorious then the last!
Obama will soon build his own kingdom, right here on Earth!
I am so inspired and filled with optimism at the hope the future now brings.
Everynight before I go to sleep, I read this. Obama inspires me oh so much!
“I should like to help everyone if possible; Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, black men, white, red, and yellow. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each others’ happiness, not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men’s souls; has barricaded the world with hate; we live in misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Industry that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge as made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than wealth we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. Modern communications and technology have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in man; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all.
Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women, and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me, I say “Do not despair.”
The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.
Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty! In the seventeenth chapter of St. Luke, it’s written “the kingdom of God is within man”, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people, have the power, the power to create prosperity, the power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power.
Let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men and women a chance to work, that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie!
They do not fulfill their promise. They never will! Evil rulers free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world! To do away with national barriers! To do away with greed, with hate and intolerance! Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness.
Citizens of the world, in the name of democracy, let us all unite!
People can you hear me? Wherever you are, look up! The clouds are lifting! The sun is breaking through! We are coming out of the darkness into the light! We are coming into a new world; a kind new world, where men and women will rise above their hate, their greed, and brutality. Look up! The soul of mankind has been given wings and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow. Into the light of hope! Into the future! The glorious future! That belongs to you, to me, and to all of us. Look up, everyone! Look up!”
Jimbo,
“No, I never pretended to be a preacher.”
No, you pretended to be a christian, and not with any skill either.
Jimbo,
“Jed, do you ever have anything intelligent to post?”
Well, some of my posts get appreciation and get quoted here. Some have been picked up by other blogs and discussed there. Part of one that made it to a blog in Seattle ended up being used in an Obama speech. I seem to do alright. How are you doing?
I wanted to thank you both, Political_Mama and Jed.
For a minute there I actually thought I could have a reasonable disucssion with you both where I answered your questions in a thoughful way and you would do the same.
You have reminded me what a bunch of left-wing Christian bashers you both were who couldn’t be reasoned with and had no real interest in having your questions answered only mocking Christianity.
Any further attempts at pretending like you were going to be reasonable I will hopefully remember to see right through next time.
Nathan,
Of course you did. You, who styles yourself a Killer for Christ wants to be reasonable? Thing is, we already know the answers to our questions. We ask them because we know you’ll tie yourself into some pretty exotic knots to provide an answer for us benighted souls, while desperately attempting to maintain those conflicting self-images of a good christian gentleman and a gun-totin’ outlaw avenger. Oxymoron is too mild a term for you. Schizoid Personality Disorder is probably closer, but even that’s not all the way there. I do hope you find some help before you end up killing yourself and/or someone close to you.
Nathan you never did answer my questions, and how did I do whatever it was that I somehow offended you with?
This is what irritates the hell out of me- you guys pick and choose whatever you wish to believe out of the bible and you can, because either someone has mistranslated, or different people wrote it, or they compiled the wrong man-written books, because you can take whatever you want from it and make a case to support whatever it is you want to believe.
You have absolute peaceniks who are christians and you have absolute war mongers, and Phred Phelps types who all justify their stance by…the bible.
Think about how hateful SOME fundy Muslims are…how they use their book to justify their acts. Then you have the majority peace loving muslims….which do you think are crazy?
WHY do you think they are crazy? Because they CHOOSE to believe the ‘wrong’ book? How is it that you can see that just plain as day, when you can’t see that you do the very same thing they do?
Honest to god Nathan, you really would not lose your moral compass if you chose to not believe a word of any religious text. You would honestly see that you can make good decisions based on what is just the right thing to do. And for the most part, killing people over religion isn’t one of them.
You’re no longer at war Nathan. I gave you a pass for a long, long time because I knew you had to believe in something to keep you going.
Lok at Jim Jones here and what regular said to me. That is total BS and its wrong to treatpeople that way.
Even now, I”ll still feel bad about saying something bad about regular, even though I’d like to kick him right now. I’d feel bad, and that my your moral compass.
Tell me something Nathan, when you bash gays, don’t you just feel bad?