A Washington Times editorial took a different tack in opposing Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ nomination to be secretary of Health and Human Services, painting her as a friend of an industry (abortion) who therefore is unfit to run the department that oversees that industry. “If she were the cat’s-paw of any other industry, Mrs. Sebelius would be in trouble. Yet she appears to be sailing toward a sure confirmation, thanks in part to the support of Republican Sen. Sam Brownback, a fellow Kansan and one-time pro-life leader. The industry is good to its friends, the way Standard Oil and Big Sugar once were. And it intimidates those it doesn’t buy.”
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166 Comments
Sebelius should be right at home among the Washington vultures.
So the Moonie Times would suggest someone opposed to health care that has no experience in health insurance would be a better fit? They did support Bush for President, an incompetent oil man who oversaw a country he was no friend to.
Did anyone watch the undercover “sting” operation on California Planned Parenthood clinics on the news? Female college student posed as a 14 year old seeking an abortion. During her interview w/planned parenthood she revealed her “boyfriend” was a 31 year old who got her pregnant.
She was instructed by the Planned Parenthood counselor to lie to the judge and “tell him your boyfriend is 17″ and then “the judge will sign the order authorizing you to get an abortion” as a minor without her parents consent or knowledge.
The interview was recorded. It was repeated at half a dozen abortion clinics with similiar results.
There is a law which requires health care professionals to report acts of child abuse. This law is repeatedly violated by planned parenthood [according to the news story] yet the organization has never been convicted nor charges pursued.
Regardless of your stance on abortion, violating the law in support of them is wrong. Will Gov. Kathleen Sebelius crack down on Planned Parenthood; which receives billions in taxpayer funding?
Kansasmeadowlark warned us about Sebelius years ago by giving very detailed notice of suspicious political contributions from ProKanDo (Tiller’s PAC.)
It appears that the ‘Old Gray Mare’ and O’Bama will get along just fine with having gotten ‘conflict of interest’ campaign contributions.
I suspect that Brownback’s support will be a double-edged sword for the ‘Old Gray Mare.’ That is, in Washington, Brownback is one of the big dogs wielding power and influence or cabinet positions. One slip up by the nominee and he can ask for the ‘axe of severance’ be demonstrated.
If Brownback wins the Governor position in Kansas, he will be in position to ask for investigations into Sebelius activities involving Tiller and can also being highly influential in changing legislation that had been thwarted by Sebelius.
Interesting times ahead…
Indiana Planned Parenthood caught on film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLDGFzdPjBU
Memphis, TN Planned Parenthood:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042001.html
Phoenix, AZ Planned Parenthood:
(two cases)
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/591989767.html
And in crazy California, Planned Parenthood threatens to sue the undercover woman – who had the audacity to filming Planned Parenthood committing a crime:
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=7436
Kansas grown:
In this video you will hear Tiller:
Say he has done late abortions up to the day before delivery
Show photos he collected of the dead bodies of babies he aborted
Admit he never heard of the Federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act
Describe babies with handicaps as burdens on women and society
http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/tiller-admits-criminal-activity-in-undercover-video/
American_Way
Posted April 26, 2009 at 6:49 am | Permalink
Did anyone watch the undercover “sting” operation on California Planned Parenthood clinics on the news? Female college student posed as a 14 year old seeking an abortion. During her interview w/planned parenthood she revealed her “boyfriend” was a 31 year old who got her pregnant.
—
Was the reporter in fact 14 years old? If not, then no law was broken.
This is what strangles your credibility in the cradle, btw.
GOP ca2009: a party that never lets facts get in the way of rigid ideology.
I am not anti-abortion exactly, but am strongly against child abuse. These kids suffer a life time and sometimes repeat the abuse on their own children.
Perhaps those who believe in the Supreme Court decision allowing abortion see it like gun owners do the second amendment – your right to ANY abortion is greater than the states right to control them.
GOP ca2009: the party that the lawyers abandoned.
Pedant you skirt the issue. Google it. There are real cases involving minors and real cases of investigations and resignations by Planned Parenthood staff.
You choose to shoot the messenger.
American_Way
Posted April 26, 2009 at 7:37 am | Permalink
Pedant you skirt the issue. Google it. There are real cases involving minors and real cases of investigations and resignations by Planned Parenthood staff.
You choose to shoot the messenger.
—
lol
Tell you what, you show me a crime then I’m on your side. Until then, forgive me for being completely uninterested.
Pedant, there are of weblinks to actual investigations involving minors out there to see.
Some based upon undercover adults posing as minors, some involving minors.
The “crime” does not always involve a minor.
Ever watch MSNBC Reports on the hundreds of men who went to what they thought was a “minors” home to have sex, after meeting the “adult undercover agents” on line?
Hundreds of convictions on television. No minors actually involved.
Was a crime committed, or were these sick men all prosecuted and convicted for nothing?
Keep your head in the sand. I only brought it up because it IS a problem – and I suspect Kathy will look the other way.
My god, what a mess yall who’re left to man the GOP fort are makin’ of this issue. This is the hill the GOP has chosen to die on?!?
This will be interesting. :)
GOP ca2009: determined to uphold 1959. If time ever runs backward and we again see 1959, then be assured the GOP stands ready to serve.
PS: hey everybody, let’s go back to 1959!
lol
American_Way
Posted April 26, 2009 at 7:56 am | Permalink
—
Well I saw a lot of huffing. I saw a lot of puffing. But so far I ain’t seen a crime.
What IS obvious, however, is that Operation Rescue is workin’ overtime.
PS OR ain’t exactly famous for standing on facts.
Describe babies with handicaps as burdens on women and society
That attitude sounds eerily familiar – re: the N@zi party under Hitler and Eugenics.
Regular
Posted April 26, 2009 at 8:05 am | Permalink
Describe babies with handicaps as burdens on women and society
That attitude sounds eerily familiar – re: the N@zi party under Hitler and Eugenics.
—
Less than 20 posts in and we’re already talkin’ about dead Germans. See, that’s where OR will take every discussion every time, and post haste, too.
GOP ca2009: apparently unaware that affirming the antecedent in Godwin’s Law means you lose.
Pedant, you are reporting the same thing over and over again. Are you feeling angry?
American_Way
Posted April 26, 2009 at 8:23 am | Permalink
Pedant, you are reporting the same thing over and over again. Are you feeling angry?
—
WATCH IT BUSTER!!!
lol
#
Pedant
Posted April 26, 2009 at 8:16 am | Permalink
Regular
Posted April 26, 2009 at 8:05 am | Permalink
Describe babies with handicaps as burdens on women and society
That attitude sounds eerily familiar – re: the N@zi party under Hitler and Eugenics.
—
Less than 20 posts in and we’re already talkin’ about dead Germans. See, that’s where OR will take every discussion every time, and post haste, too.
GOP ca2009: apparently unaware that affirming the antecedent in Godwin’s Law means you lose.
==================================
Pedant,
Not my fault the leftist/liberals are patterning themselves after the N@z.i party.
– secularization of the Church
– Eugenics philosophy against ‘inferior’ humans
– Socialization (more government control) of the nation
– Use of false doctrine to promote agendas
– Making traditional conservative groups appear as if they are the villains
– Hatred of Jews
The leftist/libs are pretty much cookie cutter clones of the N@z.i philosophy.
We all can see the State of Kansas lacks a Governor and the Country doesnt need her as the HHS. So, 2 questions. 1. Who should be Kansas Governor now and how do we get them there? 2. Who should be the Country’s HHS and do we get them there? Herbert West 3rd, {D}, Candidate for Kansas Governor, 2010. HerbertIII at http://www.twitter.com , west.herb@yahoo.com
Pedant – I take it your point of view is that a sting operation on an abortion clinic isn’t evidence of a criminal act because the woman isn’t 14 & the boyfriend made up? Huh, I guess we should open up the gates at prisons and let all the other sting victims go, because cops posing as drug buyers/sellers, hookers/johns, hitmen, pedophiles, etc should all be discredited as make believe and their “victims” set free under that legal precedent that apparently doesn’t exist.
I am opposed to abortion. Governor Sebelius manipulated the Law by altering “Due Process” too “White Wash Murder/by Abortion”. She Vetoed “LIFE”. What as the countries HHS will she “VETO”? Why can’t politicians “VETO DEATH”?????? Herbert WEst 3rd, {D}, Candidate for Kansas Governor, 2010. HerbertIII at http://www.twitter.com west.herb@yahoo.com SHE VETOED LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 8:54 am | Permalink
Pedant – I take it your point of view is that a sting operation on an abortion clinic isn’t evidence of a criminal act because the woman isn’t 14 & the boyfriend made up?
—
That’s correct.
See no evil?
See no crime.
Or even criminal charges.
Pedant – well, at least you’re honest about the hypocrisy. Oh, and you’re in favor of lawyers (”GOP ca2009: the party that the lawyers abandoned.”), your POV makes sense now.
Here’s what I see in these cases.
Operation Rescue slapped together a faux sting, complete with cameras. The odds are 99.99% that they then went to the respective district attorneys and demanded that PP be charged with a crime.
That didn’t happen, so they went public. They’ll use the outrage they ginned up to run against the district attorneys.
It’s SOP for these guys. Sorry that I feel neither sympathy nor raised blood pressure here.
Operation Rescue has used these tactics for decades now.
How’s that working out for them? Well, the GOP is now a sectarian party exercising regional power with aspirations of returning to the national stage.
Enough said.
Under the ruling of the court it does not matter the actual age of the person posing. It is the understanding
of the suspect. If they think the person is under aged than it is their intent the convicts them.
The only exception is in porn where the model appears to be underage but is in fact over 18.
Now Operation Rescue has more then once shot itself in the foot by twisting truth and facts. Into something that is illegal but the reality it is not. Oddly for some its doing the “work of God” allows them to be deceitful and openly lie.
We need to broadcast the video of George Tiller on
the local Kansas Media talking about aborting babies. What a sad commentary for our society and for the city of Wichita. The Governor should not be
put into the postion of HHS at all. But she should fit right in with the slimmy slippery Washington crowd. We need to get back to basic values. Where is all of the rightous indignation. Our city is corrupt and so is our government. May God have mercy
on all of us.
One other point.
Does anybody doubt who’s behind this latest Operation Rescue fundraising campaign?
Dollars to donuts that the hand of Phill Kline are neck deep in this thing.
hands. Plural.
Pedant – do you mind expanding on the rest of my original question regarding other sting operations that employ the exact same strategy? Do you believe the resutling criminal charges aren’t real there as well? Do you also agree that irregardless of a make believe boyfriend, that a 14 yr old should be able to get an abortion with no parental notification/consent? Just curious. Btw, the college student from CA isn’t with Operation Rescue.
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 9:33 am | Permalink
Pedant – do you mind expanding on the rest of my original question regarding other sting operations that employ the exact same strategy? Do you believe the resutling criminal charges aren’t real there as well?
—
You’re wrong, it’s not “the exact same strategy.”
The original stings resulted in (a) criminal charges, (b) convictions, and (c) prison sentences (by your own admission).
There aren’t even any criminal CHARGES here.
Doesn’t take a genius to conclude that this is in fact not the “exact same stragegy.”
Pedant – just so I’m clear, because you’re the obvious genius…a sting operation that uses fake names/ages/identities/backstories/etc is all good if it results in charges/sentences associated with laws broken…but when it’s applied to Planned Parenthood, who are on tape breaking laws, just because there haven’t been charges/sentences passed out, you’re all good with that, correct? Still curious about your take on a jr high girl’s “right” to make a decision about an abortion with no parental notification/consent.
I will defend Planned Parenthood on this. THey have a responsibility to get that child into the clinic so they can get help. Once the child is in the clinic and they can confirm the pregnancy, then they have a responsibility to inform the police- and every clinic DOES JUST THAT.
If the clinic staff told the girl on the phone that they’d be making a police report, what makes you believe she would come in? She’d probably run, and then what help does she get? And just because they have her name doesn’t mean squat, many times they will use false names, but they have to bring ID into the clinic with them.
The antis know this, but they want to sensationalize this as if the planned parenthoods are working to help predators, but it is the farthest from the truth. They’re trying to help the victim get REAL HELP, nothing they can really do on the phone.
So Political Mamma supports breaking the law. Par for the course. She skips right over the fact these girls were all already “in” the clinic when the abortion supporter ignores the law.
This really has nothing to do with “anti’s”. As I’ve stated, I’m interested in clinic workers obeying the law and reporting child abuse.
This does not keep the “girl” from having an abortion.
irregardless
I really prefer use of the word “regardless”, regardless of the political affiliation of the poster.
Regardless of your opinion, or your anger level, the word, regardless, is the better choice.
No, I did not say I support breaking the law. See how antis lie? I said they need to report it after they confirm the person comes into the clinic.
Perhaps the reason that none of these clinics face charges is because….they reported the incidences! Did you ever think of that?
You know just like they claimed Tiller didn’t, but actually had, and they proved it too.
Mama – are parents not qualified to help their daughters get “REAL HELP”, or is it just PP that’s qualified?
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 9:57 am | Permalink
Pedant – just so I’m clear, because you’re the obvious genius…a sting operation that uses fake names/ages/identities/backstories/etc is all good if it results in charges/sentences associated with laws broken…but when it’s applied to Planned Parenthood, who are on tape breaking laws, just because there haven’t been charges/sentences passed out, you’re all good with that, correct?
—
If laws were broken, then why did Operation Rescue go public prematurely? Why didn’t Operation Rescue work with local authorities to ensure said lawbreakers are brought to justice?
If laws were not broken, then you’re correct: I am completely uninterested. Totally.
Call me a cynic, but if it quacks like a publicity-ploy duck then it’s probably a pubiicity ploy.
Most of the time the girls do go to the parents, but every now and again they don’t and can’t.
I support a means for the girl to be able to obtain an abortion without having to tell her parents if she fears their response.
OR CONVERSELY, they want to carry the pregnancy, and their parents would insist on them getting an abortion.
I would bet a house that if this latest Operation Rescue fundraising ploy is traced back to its genesis, one will end up in Lynchburg, Virginia, Liberty University, and on network drive of its latest professional polemicist, Phill Kline.
I support a means for the children to be able to avoid responsibility without having to tell her parents if they fear their response.
I believe that’s what Political Mamma meant.
Link the sting…OHHH that is right it was not done by the law…it was done by a pro-life group. Not even close to being legit. Whatever dude.
Am Way, are you in support of those parents who impregnate their 14 year old because they can’t have anymore natural children, so instead they force their own child to get pregnant so they can keep the baby for themselves?
I suppose if she sought an abortion, you’d be ok with telling her parents huh.
By the way here is the link form the conservative bible.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54079,00.html
No of course you don’t worry about if the child wants to keep the pregnancy, there is a law that sides with the child against the parents wishes for that.
I suppose that’s the only time its ok for the child to usurp the parent’s rights, right?
I thought that was the link too, but that link is from 2002.
Mama – wow…”I support a means for the girl to be able to obtain an abortion without having to tell her parents if she fears their response.” Rejoice pre-teens! All you have to do is “fear” you’re parents and the world’s your oyster! Drugs, alcohol, sex, truency, gangs, it’s all yours, as long as the idiot parents who are responsibile for you scare you! Whoo-hoo!
Whoops…fair enough…sorry about the link. So it was a anti-abortionist girl with a camera not the group. Wow, I am going to drink some coffee and wake up before I type.
Pedant – have you watched the video, listened to the audio of the college girl…who has nothing to do with OR? Where the PP worker told her to lie to a judge about the age of her boyfriend, so she could get a court order to have an abortion that allows her to not tell her parents? Irregardless of the fake boyfriend, statutory rape laws…did they make perjury in a court law legal recently?
Those who use the Philllll Kline scare and deflect from reality tricks seem to want to punish, want someone to blame. They don’t spend their time and effort attempting to help where help is sorely needed. They can’t (or won’t) face the legal realities. This trick (where no law was broken so they go public and intimate laws were broken) fools only those who won’t see beyond what they’ve decided to see.
The GOP is stuck with these vindictive people who are one-issue voters. Many of the GOP are true protectors of life and see where the efforts should be directed, and how futile the Phillll Klines and Operation Rescue efforts are.
It’s the GOP’s cross to bear — they can’t win national elections without them, and they can’t win national elections with them. Until they deal with this, they will remain a regional party with no impact beyond a too-small number of people.
Linda – better tell Herbert up above to cool it then….he’s one of yours.
Hey DFB (dumb fn bimbo), do you support a law that allows the parents to choose abortion against the teen’s wishes?
Answer the question.
I notice how you both conveniently left out what I actually said.
Herbert aint ours LOL!
Ok I have seen the video….the PRODUCED video. Wow, that would not even get five minutes with a DA.
I’d like to know exactly which report is the one they’re working on now…because some of those are old.
Mama – so you try to make the argument that it’s wrong for a child to go against the parent’s wishes to have a baby, by saying you support a child being able to have an abortion against a parent’s wishes as kosher? Nope, no holes in that argument. Where do you stand on the babydaddy’s wishes? The law requires him to be responsible if the woman chooses to keep the baby, but he has no say in aborting the baby? Don’t know if you have kids, but you’re saying you’d be cool with your 14 yr old daughter having an abortion and being mentally prepared enough to make the decision by herself?
Yep..he’s one of yours…”Herbert WEst 3rd, {D}, Candidate for Kansas Governor, 2010.”
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:00 am | Permalink
Pedant – have you watched the video, listened to the audio of the college girl…who has nothing to do with OR? Where the PP worker told her to lie to a judge about the age of her boyfriend, so she could get a court order to have an abortion that allows her to not tell her parents? Irregardless of the fake boyfriend, statutory rape laws…did they make perjury in a court law legal recently?
—
No, I haven’t. Why would I? I am sure the respective DA’s know far more about this than I. Despite their improved knowledge, they declined to press charges.
And still OR went public with evidence that, while likely inadmissable in court, could probably be reproduced legally if the DA’s offices were brought into the loop first (and not later, when those accused of criminal acts are alerted to the possibility of a sting but when OR can profit politically from said “crimes”).
Also, why wasn’t somebody charged with perjury if in fact perjury was committed?
DavosRancheros
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink
Ok I have seen the video….the PRODUCED video. Wow, that would not even get five minutes with a DA.
—
Yes, I too have heard of this magical thing also known as an “edit” function.
lol
Mama – to answer your question, I trust the parent’s decision making ability far more than any pre-teen’s. Obviously, I don’t agree with abortion, but ignorance of the argument that a pre-teen should be able to make such a decision, without parental notification..let alone permission…discredits the rest of your argument that it’s so horribly wrong for parents, who would be most responsible for raising the child of a child anyway, to have any authority in the decision. And your opinion that minor girls should have the right, is because they “fear” their parent’s response? If they’re being abused somehow and that’s where the fear comes from, seems like a plan to tell someone about it. Getting a free abortion changes an abusive situation how? Otherwise, they’re “fear” is based on CRAZY discipline like being grounded, or losing their cell phone, or not being able to go to a friend’s party….ooooh, scary….in those heinous cases of obviously teroristic parents, by all means, abort the baby fast!
I’m saying in both cases, if the 14 year old wishes to have an abortion or keep the pregnancy, the parents should not be able to decide one way or the other.
But I love how you ignored my question again.
I already know what you support, you support not letting them choose abortion if they want one, but you support letting the parents force them to keep it against the child’s wishes. Now do you see the hypocrisy there?
I’m guessing that ole Herb must have changed up, because last election he ran as a republicon.
Or getting beat up, or having their baby stolen, or being forced to give birth just for the parents….
Don’t act like these things don’t happen to these girls. Matter of fact one of my best friends in high school had three children- a boy and twins that she HID THE PREGNANCY because she was afraid of what her drunk dad might do because she wanted to keep the children (and honestly the state should have removed the boy too). The twins died from lack of prenatal care and put her life in risk.
Do you realize how much an abortion costs? Do you really think most 14 year olds have the resources to have one without telling their parents? Get a friggin clue.
Oh by the way, that same girl, you supported her on taxpayer dollars for about 10 years, 4 more children, and the boy that she had when she was 15…autistic and in jail.
So how did that work out for ya?
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:20 am | Permalink
Mama – to answer your question, I trust the parent’s decision making ability far more than any pre-teen’s.
—
Any parent? Any pre-teen?
That’s ridiculous. With very little effort I can imagine situations where in fact the pre-teen is far more adult than her “adult” parents. Good grief, this assertion is staggering in its willful naiveté.
Like I said upthread, if 1959 ever rolls around again, I have no doubt DFB’s GOP stands ready to serve.
“Where do you stand on the babydaddy’s wishes? The law requires him to be responsible if the woman chooses to keep the baby, but he has no say in aborting the baby?”
That SHOULD be changed.
The accused father should have the option of paying half the cost for a pregnancy mitigation. If he does that he should be absolved of any further responsibility for the fetus. FINALLY, thousands of years of women using pregnancy to trap a man would end.
we’ve discussed this before. I’m not against having a time limit for when a man after being informed of the pregnancy can ‘opt out’ and pay half the abortion cost. He has to be given notice within a specific time, and he has to make his decision long enough before the window closes for her to have an abortion. My fear is those who don’t know until late in the pregnancy that they are even pregnant.
However if it were a rape, then he should have to pay everything, regardless of what choice she makes.
BJ but you do realize that will never ever become law, because the antis know that the abortion rate would go up….dramatically.
Ma – How exactly did I avoid “your question”? I said I would rather see the parents, who are responsible for their child have a role in the decision. Irregardless of their decision, at least it would be consistent. You’re saying the only way they should have a role, is if it’s for abortion. Even though I don’t support abortion I sure as heck don’t support children being allowed to make decisions like abortion with no parental involvement whatsoever. If the parent’s are abusive…put on your big girl panties and tell someone. I noticed you avoided any reference to a free abortion and sending a child back to an abusive homelife..apparently, that’s all good…no long term effects to the child there. You treat abortion like just another form of birth control. And suggest that all the minors should have free abortions, because they might have abusive parents, or are being molested, or got raped…if those were the only reasons that justified abortion, you might have some semblence of credibility. But those are such a small % of the total abortions it’s silly to even suggest such open access to it based on those events. Does your view that minors should have no parental involvement extend to the rest of their lives, or just abortion decisions?
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:20 am | Permalink
Mama – to answer your question, I trust the parent’s decision making ability far more than any pre-teen’s.
—
For example. What if the parents are “adult” enough to pressure the pre-teen for an abortion against her will?
My guess it that you’ll pull a 180 forthwith and be all for choice.
Yall are just plumb bogged down in 1959, you know that?
Pedant – yeah, you’re right, I mean you can imagine it, so I’m sure the vast majority of parents are idiots and the vast majority (not simple majority, gotta be in the 95%+ range) of all minors are mental/emotional giants! Gimme a break. Of course not ALL of ANYTHING! That’s the same lame strawhorse you “pros” line up with “what about rape, incest, stress, abusive parents”. Here’s my proposal, if you guys are serious about “making abortions a rarity” as all Dems claim, I’d be more than happy to vote for legislation that allowed any minor or adult to get a free abortion from PP for a pregnancy resulting from rape (statutory or otherwise), incest, or who have abusive parents, and under your other logic, charges/sentences must be handed out prior to it causing anything but “disinterest”. And the guy gets the option you suggested as a get out jail free card…as well as the opposite “right” of accepting the woman’s fee of 1/2 an abortion, and he gets parental rights to the baby, her responsibility ends there.
Pedant – my exact words were: “How exactly did I avoid “your question”? I said I would rather see the parents, who are responsible for their child have a role in the decision. Irregardless of their decision, at least it would be consistent.” What part of “Irregardless of their decision” is hard to understand? All I’m saying, is parents are held responsible for their children in all sorts of ways legally, so why should they be legally excluded in this situation?
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:48 am | Permalink
Pedant – yeah, you’re right, I mean you can imagine it, so I’m sure the vast majority of parents are idiots and the vast majority (not simple majority, gotta be in the 95%+ range) of all minors are mental/emotional giants! Gimme a break.
—
I tried, but you keep insisting you want to hang. ;)
You obviously don’t really know many people outside those you would claim as your own. For example, I live in an area of Virginia where the range is probably 80+% on the idiot side. Here’s a clue: it’s not the only place in the US like that, either.
I’ll make you two deals. First off, I’ll agree that abortion should be rare but you gotta agree that in the end the choice of the biological parents trumps all.
Second, just raise your sights and shoot for the 21st century, ok?
How many good friends do you have outside your country club, DFB?
Or your church?
That’s because free abortions don’t happen. How can I argue against something that is a lie?
Tell someone, yes its so easy to tell someone when the outcome in their mind would be worse than just telling someone. Gosh how simple it must be to live in your world.
I don’t know how many times I have to tell you this- I support the girl to choose EITHER WAY. It is HER LIFE that is about to be permanently altered.
Child abuse is not a minor thing, it happens all the time. MOST are going to go to their parents anyway. Its the ones who are truly afraid that won’t.
While we’re at it, just seems like “preteens” are being held back all over the place…can’t drive, can’t drop out of school, can’t vote, can’t drink, can’t marry, can’t date adults, can’t rent a car, can’t buy a gun, can’t sign a contract, can’t ride the roller coaster (just for the short ones), can’t go on field trips without consent, can’t buy a plane ticket without consent, can’t rent a motel room…if I didn’t know how responsible they are, I’d think “the law” doesn’t trust their ability to make adult decisions…
Did you know that once a 15 year old gives birth, the 15 year old becomes the sole legal decision maker for the child she had….even though the parents are still the sole decision maker for her?
Except when it comes to having an abortion legally right now they can prevent her from making that choice. HOwever, if the parents want her to have an abortion, the parents cannot do so.
THAT is unfair and totally hypocritical. If she can make legal decisions for her own baby, she should immediately become emancipated upon pregnancy so that she can also make her own decisions for herself.
Moving out of the 15th Century has never been easy for Republicans.
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 11:59 am | Permalink
While we’re at it, just seems like “preteens” are being held back all over the place…can’t drive, can’t drop out of school, can’t vote, can’t drink, can’t marry, can’t date adults, can’t rent a car, can’t buy a gun, can’t sign a contract, can’t ride the roller coaster (just for the short ones), can’t go on field trips without consent, can’t buy a plane ticket without consent, can’t rent a motel room…if I didn’t know how responsible they are, I’d think “the law” doesn’t trust their ability to make adult decisions…
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lol, I love it.
GOP ca2009: goodness, Doris, can’t we move somewhere where all our neighbors are white and just like us?!?
Pedant – I’d suggest you share your opinion of fellow Virginians with them. Been there a lot, haven’t managed to run into all the idiots you claim are there…the idiots who apparently are so stupid they’ve raised rocket scientist children! It’s a miracle! And here I thought you weren’t religious…if I were a guessing man, I’d guess you’re in NE VA? Oh, and sorry, no country club here, never have. Have gone to church my entire life (oh, the horror!). On your first “deal”, are you agreeing a father should have just as much right to being a father, therefore the baby carried to full term?
Pedant – gee, how surprising…no content, just a racial jab…I’ll let you and Ma get back to building your perfect society based on your virtues and parental boogeymen and those scary, scary Christians. I’ll quit “hanging” now so you can have the thread all to yourself.
Where did I bash Christians today?
I don’t have an issue with Christians unless they interfere with my rights.
DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 12:06 pm | Permalink
On your first “deal”, are you agreeing a father should have just as much right to being a father, therefore the baby carried to full term?
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In my opinion, the father should have a right to vote in the matter, yes. To be clearer, though: in the final analysis, two people will share one body for nearly a year. The person who does all the walking in that situation gets final say.
By the way, this is hardly new or revolutionary. This is the way it’s been for millenia, it’s the way it is now, and it’s the way it will always be for man. The mother as final arbiter of pregnancy is as human as breathing, eating, and copulating.
Now, how about the second deal. Can you bring yourself to come into the 21st century? ;)
THAT is unfair and totally hypocritical. If she can make legal decisions for her own baby, she should immediately become emancipated upon pregnancy so that she can also make her own decisions for herself.
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A fifteen year old girl is barely capable or running her own life, let alone make decisions in the best interest of her child. She is almost certainly emotionally immature and incapable of supporting herself. And PMom would have her devoid of stability in her life.
The stupididty of some on the left…
I tell ya, those who think women should have no choice…they should be required to give up a kidney to someone in need.
Its all about saving a LIFE right? Well heck save a life that’s already living.
If you want her to be devoid of stability- force her to have a baby.
BFD,
So far, in none of your posts have you even intimated possibility that a woman might be more than an automated uterus/diaper-changing cook/pleasure machine for the use of husbands. You have never once allowed that a woman is capable of making her own decisions regarding her well-being. In fact you seem to feel that you and only you are a person whose morals are pure enough to make those decisions for women. And yet you claim to be christian, an admitted sinner just like all the rest. Now, when you have managed to rationally resolve those two issues, you get back to us and explain your resolution. It might even be interesting. We’re awaiting with bated breath!
Jed, give it up. There are those who think that the right to life of the human life in the womb trumps the very real right of a person to control their own body. Others don’t see it that way. Others see exceptions. Therein lies the conflict and you know it. The rest is just vindictive BS.
And that’s fine as long as you’re not pushing that belief onto everyone else Outlander. If you and your wife think that, great! Don’t have an abortion.
Jed – you’re pretty talented at context shift, since not a single thing in your self righteous question has a thing to do with anything I’ve posted about. I’ve posted about nothing but a parent’s right to be a parent and a preteens expectation to seek advice from a parent. Apparently, based on your other brilliant observation that “you and you alone!” are morally pure enough to make decisions about “women”…hopefully nobody finds out that I’m the parents of all preteens everywhere! It’s part of my eugenics program to take over the human race. But it was a nice try at an actual thought.
Outie,
If you think I’m going to knuckle under to some demented cult of baby-worshippers who demands that anyone who fails to kneel before their altar of used Swaddling Pampers be to put to the sword and/or assault rifle, you got another think comin’!
Vindictive BS? Have you actually read or seen what you fundies say about anyone you disagree with? Oh yeah, you actually wrote a little of that vindictive BS.
“And PMom would have her devoid of stability in her life.”
If she had stability in her life, she likely wouldn’t have gotten pregnant. And once she’s pregnant, she’s supposed to only turn to those who provided the “stability” that got her that way in the first place? Cool reasoning there outie! Maybe you’d also advocate turning our financial system over to bank robbe… oops, you did that already.
Sorry if I offend you by advocating the rights of the already-breathing. You certainly have the right to not read my posts.
BFD,
“…hopefully nobody finds out that I’m the parents of all preteens everywhere!”
I wasn’t saying you were, just that you and your cult wanna be them Loco Parentis.
Jed: You want to try that again. It’s hard to follow the jibberish.
You know what the argument is about. Whether the vindictive BS comes from someone else or, as in this case, you, it is still vindictive BS. And it is unhelpful.
Dej – and I quote: “You have never once allowed that a woman is capable of making her own decisions regarding her well-being. In fact you seem to feel that you and only you are a person whose morals are pure enough to make those decisions for women” Let me be more clear…you’re right, I never allowed that a woman is capable of making her own decision…because I was never talking about WOMEN making decisions. I was talking about preteen/jr high girls! Never once did I say anything about anyone’s credentials about making ANY decision, simply that a minor should at least consult with her parents…you know the one’s responsible for her until she actually becomes a WOMAN….but again…nice attempt at a thought..the spanish at the end really adds flavor.
BFD,
“Jed – you’re pretty talented at context shift, since not a single thing in your self righteous question has a thing to do with anything I’ve posted about.”
Actually, the context of the thread was about a Senate confirmation of our Governor as Secretary of HHS. And yes, you are quite right, my question wasn’t about what you’ve posted; it was specifically about what you haven’t.
In relevant news, there’s a real threat of a Swine Flu pandemic so severe that last week’s secessionist Governor Good-Hair of Texas is begging for anti-viral medicine from the feds and complaining HHS isn’t responding quickly enough.
Gee, do you think if there were a Secretary of HHS on the job public health services might be running a tad more efficiently?
BFD,
P.S. It wasn’t Spanish, it was Latin. And yes, I should have known better than present a multilingual pun to someone who is only barely conversant in one language. My bad!
Sitting here pondering the back and forth of pro and anti, i just wonder how many anti’s have a housefull of adopted children? Going with the same theme, aren’t these the same people who gripe about social costs/services (taxes) that are associated with the care for those that make the choice. Their message sure seems a bit confusing to me!
Once again, advocates of Illegal abortion have pulled the real issue into tangential cul de sacs.
This is not a biology issue.
This is not a medical issue.
This is not a morality issue.
This is not a philosophical issue.
This is not a religious issue.
Reproductive Rights is a PUBLIC POLICY issue.
Public Policy is, in its DNA, an arbitrary beast.
It’s not a crime if you drive 35 mph in a 35 mph zone.
You’re not driving drunk if you blow a .079 in the Breath-a-Lyzer.
Your bartender will get arrested for serving you a beer if you were born in the last minute of New Year’s Day 20 years ago. But at one second after Midnight, you’re good to drink even though, chronologically, you’ve got most of another day before you’ve lived 21 years.
A high school kid is a Child Molester if he cops a feel on his girlfriend the night before her 16th birthday. A second past Midnight, “He SCORES!
That’s laws for ya; arbitrary.
And laws in the United States of America aren’t supposed to be based on theology or philosophy or morality or biology.
Laws in the United States of America are supposed to deal with how a collective government deals with individuals’ (singular) interests and public (plural) interests.
Ya gotta draw the line somewhere.
If “abortion is murder” then the appropriate laws against murder should be applied. The abortionist gets the needle; the woman seeking an abortion gets the needle as a co-conspirator in the murder; a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) due to, say, the pregnant woman falling down the stairs would be some degree of manslaughter.
Pretty clear. A defensible argument for such public policy can be made for it.
Make that public policy and you’ve won the war, Illegal Abortion Advocates.
Jed – who could’ve guessed…you get called on the idiocy of your first posting (and all of the rest of them for that matter) directed at me…and you shift the context…well, you’re consistent…consistently a pi$$ poor reader….but hey, you speak Latin…dead languages are in high demand out there..Dems have at least some of down with quid pro quo…
DFB — you’ve been all over the board… pre-teen… 14 yr old imposter in CA… and a college woman you mentioned….
Pre-teens are under 13 yrs old…
The question to you was: Would you allow the “female” in question to KEEP her baby, even if the parents of said individual objected??
You have not come close to answering that.
With that, I’m outta here…. bye all!!
MH – thanks for setting the plate and describing all the things abortion isn’t, like biology, medicine, philosophy, religion, etc…I guess debate about parental notification/consent have nothing to do with “policy”.
Sure Monkey, I’m sure that argument will be made. About the same time as one that says moms should be able to get a rain check on the abortion option for a month or so after birth so they can decide whether they really want the little bugger.
So now there are two stupid examples.
“DFB” –
Should a pre-teen who gets an abortion be tried for murder as an adult?
Chas – yeah, I guess I never said “Pedant – my exact words were: “How exactly did I avoid “your question”? I said I would rather see the parents, who are responsible for their child have a role in the decision. Irregardless of their decision, at least it would be consistent.” What part of “Irregardless of their decision” is hard to understand? All I’m saying, is parents are held responsible for their children in all sorts of ways legally, so why should they be legally excluded in this situation?”…Oh wait, I did say it…TWICE! Btw, the “14 yr old” IS the college student in earlier discussion. I also used the term “minor” several times….gosh, so many confusing terms for children…I can see how that would be confusing.
So, “outlander” –
You don’t consider abortion murder?
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Monkeyhawk
Posted April 26, 2009 at 2:22 pm | Permalink
So, “outlander” –
You don’t consider abortion murder?
————
It’s a difficult question with good arguments on both sides. Why are you trying to inflame it?
I see that the PRO-DEATH group is out in force today.
Reggie, Yeah, it’s Sunday.
MH – did I say she should somewhere? Should abortion be the only right a pre-teen/minor has in terms of a decision that requires no parental notification/consent? Why are you guys so afraid of parents being involved in a minor’s decision? Oh wait, I forgot, 80% of parents are idiots who raise brilliant adolescents and the majority are abusive parents who would beat the girl, steal their child and make them have the baby just for themselves (other “facts” I’ve been able to gleen from this thread). I never even attempted to open the legality of abortion itself can of worms. Simply that parents should be involved in their minor’s decisions, irregardless of the decision. In terms of the overall abortion question and it’s legality, I don’t disagree with your premise that it’s a state driven law, except for the qualifiers of not biology, not medicine, etc, etc.
Fooz,
“Their message sure seems a bit confusing to me!”
The truly scary thing is that it doesn’t seem a bit confusing to them. They simply park contradictory thoughts in disconnected parts of the brain.
Fooz – guess the waiting list to adopt babies is made up of good lil’ liberals right? Must be why most of the people I know personally who’ve adopted had to adopt from Russia/China.
“DFB” –
I wonder if a 12-year-old whose been incestuously raped really wants to ask Daddy’s permission.
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DFB
Posted April 26, 2009 at 9:57 am | Permalink
Pedant – just so I’m clear, because you’re the obvious genius…a sting operation that uses fake names/ages/identities/backstories/etc is all good if it results in charges/sentences associated with laws broken…but when it’s applied to Planned Parenthood, who are on tape breaking laws, just because there haven’t been charges/sentences passed out, you’re all good with that, correct? Still curious about your take on a jr high girl’s “right” to make a decision about an abortion with no parental notification/consent.
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You seem to be overlooking a crucial point is comparing various types of sting operations and the sting conducted by Operation Rescue.
Let’s take a drug sting operation as an example. The ages of the people involved in the transaction have absolutely no bearing in the determination as to whether or not an illegal act has transpired. If real drugs and real money change hands this fact can stand as proof that a real crime has transpired.
In the case of the Operation Rescue sting the ages of the people involved is the only factor that determines whether or not an illegal act has transpired. An adult posed as a minor and claimed that she was impregnated by an adult. It is not illegal for an adult male to impregnate an adult female, provided of course the act was consensual. Therefore, there is no evidence of criminal activity.
The only thing that Operation Rescue has documented is a pretend crime. Maybe they can find a pretend DA to file pretend charges which can then be adjudicated in a pretend court of pretend law.
Currently — in Kansas alone — 871 children are awaiting adoption.
There’s no need to go overseas except the adopters tend to want a perfect white male infant.
Certainly there enough of you advocates of illegal abortion to adopt these kids.
http://www.srskansas.org/CFS/2008%20datareports/ServedinSRScustody/Awaiting_AdoptionFY08.pdf
I have never understood why prospective adoptive parents would look outside their own communities to adopt a child.
DFB — a 14 yr. old college student??
“Should abortion be the only right a pre-teen/minor….” [DFB]
There you go again with that “preteen” red herring crap again…. Cant you stay on point with your original argument??
The only one talking about preteens here is YOU…
MH – you might want to let the Chinese know they’re exporting “perfect white male infants”, or my buddy got screwed with the two girls he adopted. I’m sure the 12 yr old with the perv Daddy must not have a mom too, huh. I guess I didn’t cover the whole mass outbreak of preteen incestuous rape abortions about 5 times already, or maybe you’ve got a link to something that shows the 3,000 abortions/day are all from incestuous dads. Just as long as you avoid the question about the other 99% of the minor pregnancies, someone might get the misconception that other teen/adult boys/men had anything to do with the problem. You can pick the extreme’s as justification all you want, and leave out any other details, like the presence of a Mom…or that maybe if notification is required, and not doing end runs around said notifications, that fewer incestuous pervs would be allowed to keep on abusing their 12 yr old. As for the rest of the adoptable kids, I’d adopt a child in a heartbeat if I didn’t have my own to raise for now. At least they’ve got a chance of being adopted.
Daniel,
“The only thing that Operation Rescue has documented is a pretend crime. Maybe they can find a pretend DA to file pretend charges which can then be adjudicated in a pretend court of pretend law.”
Yeah, that’s what they tried to do. Unfortunately, their appointed pretend DA lost his real election (twice in a row) and is now teaching pretend law at a pretend law school so more pretend lawyers can file pretend lawsuits under pretend laws. Don’t bother to look to them for anything remotely resembling reality.
“DFB” shares –
“…I’d adopt a child in a heartbeat if I didn’t have my own to raise for now.”
So you’re saying an additional unplanned child in your family would be “inconvenient?”
871 Kansas kids awaiting adoption.
“At least they’ve got a chance of being adopted.”
Not by you, however. You’re too busy posting to WE Blog. You really have your priorities.
Monk,
The only reason a couple would need to go overseas to adopt is if they don’t qualify as adoptive parents under U.S. laws. There are some (and I’ve known a few) who chose children from other countries out of compassion and because they had personal experiences in that country, but most have been turned down by local agencies.
Chas – let me type slowly for you…the “14 yr old” in the first posting by Amway…was a college student posing as a 14 yr old. Secondly…”preteen/minor” is another name for FREAKIN CHILDREN, no matter how you label them. Children are the responsibility of parents. Do you honestly think you’re making some kind of brilliantly useful argument, by trying to inject “Oh, oh, oh,…you said pre-teen!” I’d be more than happy to stay on the original point of my argument if you would as well, and offer your brilliance on the opinion that parents should be involved in their children’s abortion decision. Examples of “red herrings” are what if Daddy’s a child raper…what if the parent wants to steal the baby…what if the parents find out and they might get mad…
MH – another dab of brilliance from you! Sorry I’m hanging out in my basement where my computer is, with my family, while the tornado sirens go off…I’ll work on those priorities and rush everyone outside to play in the storm….funny thing is though…haven’t heard you mention a word about adopting, or are you of the mindset that the 871 kids are still eligible for abortion?
How many of you have any personal experience with adoption?? I dont mean that you have a friend that knows somebody… I mean PERSONAL experience??
Sorry Chas, can’t talk about that, it’s off the “preteen” topic.
DFB, let me see if I got this… YOU would oppose a “preteen” having an abortion, even if it is done by a FAMILY member…. without parental consent?? Even if the Family member is her own father?? Is that what you are saying??
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Monkeyhawk
Posted April 26, 2009 at 2:56 pm | Permalink
Currently — in Kansas alone — 871 children are awaiting adoption.
There’s no need to go overseas except the adopters tend to want a perfect white male infant.
Certainly there enough of you advocates of illegal abortion to adopt these kids.
http://www.srskansas.org/CFS/2008%20datareports/ServedinSRScustody/Awaiting_AdoptionFY08.pdf
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Adoption is a great alternative and a great experience. And you don’t have to be an “advocate of illegal abortion” as a certain nitwit might term it, to reap the benefits.
“DFB” tries to divert with –
“……haven’t heard you mention a word about adopting, or are you of the mindset that the 871 kids are still eligible for abortion?”
Would one more kid in your family, even huddling in the basement, be “inconvenient?”
Me? I’m not the parenting type. I’ve known that for years. I enjoy the company of my niece and nephews but I always enjoyed giving them pack to their parents.
You, on the other hand, are a dedicated parent. No one is asking you to adopt all 871 Kansas kids awaiting adoption. Just one or two.
Your “buddy” went to freakin’ China to pick up a couple of infants. I guess the 871 Kansas kids didn’t come with an exotic once-in-a-lifetime vacation halfway around the world.
871. Quite a few, I guess, if you’re one of the kids. But with all you advocates of illegal abortion running the state government and all, seems like a pretty easy goal to reduce the SRS budget by making its adoption program unnecessary.
Or would adopting one of those 871 Kansas kids be “inconvenient?”
Wallow in your hypocrisy, “DFB.”
Or call up SRS in the morning and get the process started to adopt a Kansas kid.
Your choice.
BFD,
“…haven’t heard you mention a word about adopting, or are you of the mindset that the 871 kids are still eligible for abortion?”
No, that’s not what Monk is saying, as you well know.
He’s saying that until those children, and the tens of thousands in the rest of the country are adopted into loving families, you haven’t earned the right to hold up adoption as the viable alternative to abortion. If you wish to use adoption as an argument there, you know what you need to do. Go do it!
Chas – yeah cool mo dee…that’s what I’m saying….do you ever actually read all the words, or just the ones that fit your theories? Did I say I opposed a preteen having abortion from an incestuous Dad? If I did, please provide me the actual words…all of them this time and not another partial cut & paste job. I specifically said, the implication of that example, is that there isn’t a Mother involved…just the perv daddy in his sweat pants and wifebeater t-shirt. So…would Mommy not want to know about what Daddy’s doing to precious, or should precious be able to circumvent that little leak of information and get a secret abortion, so Daddy can keep spending quality time with her?? Apparently, you’re all good with that, because you’re sure as heck not suggesting anything different. If the kid, along with her Mother, decide an abortion is best, then it’s all legal and consistent with all the other much more benign/silly things a child must get parental consent for. If Daddy’s the only parent around, does it help solve perv’s sickness, by giving the girl a secret abortion, so Daddy doesn’t get mad? Again, nice try at a complete thought.
Oh, and about 15 years ago I donated my services to establishing the SRS Special Needs Adoption program. It resulted in roughly 350 adoptions when I worked on the project. But there always was a new supply coming in.
We developed a marketing program in conjunction with Professor Robert Nunley of the University of Kansas and the Kansas Geographical Bureau. He had a knack for cross-referencing all sorts of data which drove our marketing/PR campaign.
Self-identified Twice-Borns and contributors to Kansans for Life were severe under-performers in our efforts.
The over-performers were people who identified themselves as “spiritual, but not religious.” We developed micro-marketing campaigns with posters and other list-building strategies in odd places such as bait shops near lakes in the winter; cross-referencing duck and quail and deer hunters. “Spiritual, but not religious.”
Minorities also over-performed in response to adopting difficult-to-place kids such as sibling groups, minority races, post-toddlers, disabled kids….
As I noted, this was nearly 15 years ago and I’ve not kept track of how the program might have evolved over the years. But I was surprised the 800-or-so number of pending adoptees has remained about the same. Sad.
And yet I do know 350 Kansas kids got adopted when I was working on the project.
You, on the other hand, would find an additional kid “inconvenient.”
Wallow, “DFB.”
Dej/MH – so tell me about where I started saying that adoption was the only viable solution to abortion? And who’s diverting? I’ve done nothing but argue a policy issue – parental notification/consent involving children/minors/preteens/adolescents/pick your noun having abortions. As you stated, you don’t want to be a parent, so be it. I’ve got as many kids as we can handle right now…when that changes, adoption isn’t out of the picture for us. Afterall, I met get the impression that the issue somehow involves philosophy, or religion, or politics…and you’ve already declared those don’t count, only policy. Now you all have a blessed day. I’m out.
Sigh, it must be so nice to live in such an idealic world where parents are actually parents and don’t treat their kids like crap.
But of course, the best way to perpetuate that abuse to the next generation, is by allowing a 14 year old to parent.
DFB,
You won’t convince the PRO-DEATH crowd.
They love the images of tiny infant corpses being scraped and torn from their mothers. They love the smell of coagulated blood, dark and sticky.
They are ghouls, loving death and what causes it.
“Regular” –
You’ve got a stable income and obviously a lot of love.
I bet you could adopt one or two of the 871 Kansas kids looking for a family.
Right?
I think the key is quality of life for the child and mother rather than just life.
DBF — Many times, if not most times, in the case of perv Daddy knocking up daughter, Mommy knows, and either doesnt care, or is herself scared to death to oppose the SOB…. That girl should get herself to PP, or SRS, and REPORT being pregnant by perv Daddy…. Get perv Daddy off the streets and out of her bed… where he belongs….
Now, maybe you could answer the question that I asked, instead of making up one that you have pre-determined an answer to….
Do you want to extend parental authority SO FAR as to NOT allow the young girl to keep her baby?? THAT was my question, if you would go back and read it… You refused to answer earlier….
See, I get involved in these sordid matters MUCH more than I like…. And, I havent found political persuasion to have much to do with it… Some realities arent based on political or religious persuasions…
“But of course, the best way to perpetuate that abuse to the next generation, is by allowing a 14 year old to parent.”
PM,maybe I am missing something here. So how do you remove the 14-year old for the abusive parent(s)?
Do the abortion in secret? Seems to me keeping everything a secret just keeps the abused child in an abusive situation. Not something I would want to do.
HUD….
“That girl should get herself to PP, or SRS, and REPORT being pregnant by perv Daddy…. Get perv Daddy off the streets and out of her bed… where he belongs…” [upthread]
THIS is what should happen…. Normally, perv Daddy will end up behind bars, and the child(and siblings if any) in foster care… Try checking with SRS with a hypothetical situation, and ask what they would do….
As ws mentioned WAY upthread, the liklihood of the child having an abortion that costs a lot of $$$ is minimal… More likely, the girl will have the child legally adopted to parents that want it…
I worked one case a number of years ago, where the pregnant teen girl AND her not yet born baby were adopted by the same couple…
I did’nt say keep the child in the situation. But handing her a baby and saying good luck, actually makes it worse for her.
Chas,
That’s what should happen. It isn’t often what does happen. It’s very difficult to turn in a parent who holds all the cards. Sometimes when a girl tries, she’s sent back home by authorities who just don’t give a damn. Sometimes the authority the girl picks is her minister who tells her to go home and “Honor Thy Father.” Many times, she’s just too terrorized to report anything at all. The most important thing to remember is that nothing, ever, is a simple as it looks.
Jed… unfortunately, how right you are!! Laws do need some re-arranging on procedures in such cases… I have worked on a few task forces in that area over the years…
“If she were the cat’s-paw of any other industry, Mrs. Sebelius would be in trouble. Yet she appears to be sailing toward a sure confirmation, thanks in part to the support of Republican Sen. Sam Brownback, a fellow Kansan and one-time pro-life leader. The industry is good to its friends, the way Standard Oil and Big Sugar once were. And it intimidates those it doesn’t buy.”
—
Cat’s paw and Big Sugar: reasons #5,684,259,884,236 and 5,684,259,884,237 that the GOP has been relegated to Alabama and Salt Lake.
And although it’s a ridiculous question and answering it raises it to a level of respectability it does not desesrve, no. HHS Secretary Sebelius will not have a conflict of interest.
“Chas” –
I’ve presented many questions to the advocates of illegal abortion they’ve twisted and squirmed away from answering.
Yeah, every 12-year-old girl should be a virgin and every baby should be planned and wanted.
But CONs love to compartmentalize their prejudices and resent having to face the natural consequences of their ideologies.
One more comment, re: the Washington Times a.k.a. the newspaper for those who are conservative not by choice, but by knee-jerk reaction (a males-only club). From wiki:
Conservative-turned-liberal writer David Brock, who worked for the Times’ sister publication Insight on the News, said in his book Blinded by the Right that the news writers at the Times were encouraged and rewarded for giving news stories a conservative slant. In Right-Wing Media and How It Corrupts Democracy, Brock wrote “the Washington Times was governed by a calculatedly unfair political bias and that its journalistic ethics were close to nil.”
No doubt.
Everyone here seems to be hung up on pervert fathers. Granted there are sad circumstances out there but… How often? Where are the numbers for
aborted babies being from incest? How about babies
aborted for convience sake? Of course you will never know the real stories as they are confidential. As far as children in the system. If Sedgwick County and Kansas were not so corrupt in their illegal taking of children direct violations of the law and the statutes with Juvenile Court rubber stamping things perhaps there would not be so many children in the system. Parents have a right to parent their children and know about their 13 or 14 year old daughter being pregnant. Get real how many 16 year old boys are in jail for getting their 14 year old girlfreind pregnant? The state does not make good decisions for children….You can debate abortion all you want but the bottom line is if you break the law you should not be HHS. And the 16 year olds are labeled Sex Offenders for the rest of their life. I There are alot of sick things in our society. How many girls in the foster care system are abused after being taken into the system and then taken for an abortion. Or yet again having their babies also taken into the foster care system? Again Confidential….The powers that be know about these issues. THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD.
sadie,
I hate to tell you, but most of what you complained about are things that were done to fix even worse problems. I’m sorry the world isn’t a perfect place, but we seem to be stuck with it. We’ve managed somehow to get by with it so far, and probably will for a while longer.
Sadie, its always a small problem until it happens to you. Believe it or not, I think the problems are bigger than you and rose colored glasses DFB think they are.
The state should be taking MORE kids away. If you ask me, if they take your kids they have a darn good reason to do so because it takes a LOT to take someone’s kids anymore.
P-Mom,
Actually it depends somewhat on whether this week’s abuse was committed by a natural or foster parent.
Politcal Mom, As a sucessful parent with grandchildren who has come up agains the corruption here and won. I do know of which I speak. There are no rose colored glasses. I have been to Topeka I have talked to numerous Senators and Representatives. I do know that there are problems. So does the Governor. She has been told. Many children are abused in the foster care system and it is handled internally. “You are right
the problems are bigger here that you ever imagined.”
All day long everyone made their points, no one budged in their opinions.
Kathleen Sebelius will work hard as Secretary of Health and Human Services. She has experience in what does and doesn’t work in the insurance field and she’s a smart lady.
If agreement on health care reform isn’t reached by October 15th, the Democrats have already decided to attach it to the budget reconciliation bill. According to Senate rules, budget resolutions and reconciliation bills are subject to straight up-or-down votes. Filibusters are not allowed.
We’ll have health care reform and enough years to tweak it, work out the kinks, make it better and improved. Everyone will benefit, including all those who will scream about ’socialized’ medicine.
Oh, btw, abortion will remain legal and safe. With a lot of hard work, due diligence and dignity for all women, we can also make abortion rare, the last option, always a private matter between a woman her doctor and her God. We can educate and protect future generations of females and work toward eliminating unwanted pregnancies. It will happen!
The issue of foster care- look at how many babies and small children have been murdered in Wichita alone? Do you think one day out of the blue these people abused their children? Possibly, but chances are that the abuse was ongoing.
I had a friend who worked for SRS who said that she was discouraged from taking kids whose parents were so hopeless that they’d be in the system forever. They prefer to take kids they think they can really help.
I’m sick of the state always being a big bad entity that just wants to take kids away from fantastic parents. I know a little about it, because I was taken by my parents, who were good parents but I was a runaway and my parents went to them asking for help. At the time, their only option was to sign me over to the state- and then the state really dropped the ball, but at least I was safe.
They closed Prairie View to juveniles…why? Parents who want inpatient treatment for their kids cannot get it. WTH? What is going on that parents screaming for help with their kids can’t get any especially around Wichita?
Why? They’re overwhelmed with parents who could care less and those kids are the ones who will end up housed in prison. But instead of it just being them in prison, its going to also be the ones whose parents had no place to turn for help.
Linda,
“Kathleen Sebelius will work hard as Secretary of Health and Human Services. She has experience in what does and doesn’t work in the insurance field and she’s a smart lady.”
Our only real chance for a workable healthcare system is to hope that she knows enough about what doesn’t work in the insurance field to avoid the industry altogether.
Yep, PM, you’re right, you’re always right, will always be right. All parent’s are scumbag pervs or drunks who need to have their children taken by some self-righteous person such as yourself so they can be properly trained..er..I mean raised. Geez..yeah, I get it, there are bad parents and bad kids…got it. Of course you try to paint the picture with your taint colored glasses, that every parent’s horrible and all kids should have abortions ASAP, while trying to make silly claims that I’m suggesting there no such thing as bad parents…you can stop that lame angle you call an “argument”. Let me type as slowly as I can for you, Jed, Chas, MH, and the rest of the “pros”…..if a parent is required to give consent for a CHILD to go on a fieldtrip at school, they DAMN sure should be involved in a decision to have an abortion….IRREGARDLESS OF THE DECISION (for like the 5th time!). Babies making babies doesn’t justify babies killing babies on their own, just because Mom & Dad weren’t around for the opening act.
“DFB” –
For starters, “irregardless” is not a legitimate word.
Using it just makes you look dumb(er).
Seems to me, if a 12-year-old isn’t competent to make a decision about her own body, she might not be good mother material.
I knew a young woman who got pregnant and considered her choices to be abortion or suicide. I suspect she was wrong, but her relationship with her father was such she was sure he would disown her, stop paying for her education, and force her into single parenthood.
I suspect she might have been wrong. Parents tend to come through in a crisis. But nothing could change the young woman’s mindset.
As a third party observer, I have no objection to her decision to end the pregnancy. We keep in touch from time to time and the issue still weighs on her mind.
Thing is: I think there’s a difference between a fertilized egg and a walking, talking, thinking human being. You don’t.
I tend to be more interested in the post-born. You don’t.
The abortions being committed in Kansas are not safe or legal or rare, especially the high-risk post-viable ones banned in state law, increasing at a disturbing rate in the last couple of years.
Bilious Sebelius has not only encouraged this horrible trend by vetoing cleanliness and safety legislation and post-viable loophole closures, and by discouraging enforcement of state abortion mill laws, but she is also attempting to cover up the “contributions” her campaigns have collected directly from abortionist quacks and abortion mills, and from their political PACs.
Sebelius is unfit for any federal office, as well as for governor.
Conflict or no, tomorrow she gets her confirmation votes.
Phant,
Yeah, I’m glad for her, but I can’t get over the feeling of somehow being abandoned to the state’s resident pack of jackals when she resigns as governor.