A new study released by my organization, the Violence Policy Center, looks at U.S. court records from southwestern states and clearly shows that illegal gun traffickers involved in smuggling firearms to Mexico seek semiautomatic assault weapons, armor-piercing handguns and .50-caliber anti-armor sniper rifles from U.S. gun shops. Many of these guns are imported, underscoring the urgent need for the Obama administration to use its executive powers to strictly enforce existing restrictions on the import of such nonsporting weapons. Of course, this is a case of “enforcing the gun laws on the books” that the NRA would rather ignore. The NRA’s unsubstantiated claims are allowed to gain a toehold because of the information vacuum created by a federal measure backed by the organization known as the Tiahrt amendment. Up until 2003, comprehensive crime gun trace data was available under the Freedom of Information Act. This all changed with the Tiahrt amendment (named after its sponsor, Kansas Rep. Todd Tiahrt), a spending prohibition that bans the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from releasing such information. Now, we don’t even know the top crime gun in America. Bad for public safety. Good for the NRA, gunmakers and criminals. Right now a battle is being fought to repeal the measure — an action endorsed by President Obama during the campaign. — Josh Sugarmann, the Violence Policy Center, on the Huffington Post
Nobody can substantiate claims that U.S. guns cross the border “by the thousands” or “account for 95 percent of weapons used by Mexican drug gangs.” Because it isn’t true. In Senate subcommittee hearings, William Hoover, assistant director of field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said, “The investigations we have, that we see, for firearms flowing across the border don’t show us individuals taking thousands of guns a day or at a time flowing into Mexico.” Everything Mexico’s murderous thugs are doing is already illegal. At issue is not the absence of law, but the absence of political will to enforce the laws that both nations already possess. Those that make possible Mexico’s colossal corruption wear the garb of not only drug lords and gun runners, but also of too many city mayors and police chiefs, state bureaucrats and military officers. A $40 billion criminal enterprise could not exist without the complicity of these powerful co-conspirators. And these cartels are being abetted by American media and politicians who blame our freedoms for it. We should seal the border. Punish the guilty. And use existing gun and drug laws against violent drug syndicates here and in Mexico. But leave American freedoms alone. — Wayne LaPierre, National Rifle Association, on CNN.com
76 Comments
Will someone come to grips with the fact the NRA is not a “rights” organization but a marketing arm of firearms manufacturers.
It operates on the same model as the AARP. A bunch of little old ladies, right? Who are interested in Medicare and Social Security, right?
No. The AARP has become the marketing arm of UnitedHealth Group Insurance which sells Medi-Gap and Plan D insurance plans. AARP didn’t start that way, but that’s what it’s become.
Whatever the NRA might have been at one time — organizers of hunters’ safety training and co-sponsors of Ducks Unlimited or whatever… — the NRA exists today solely to promote the sale of guns.
I see you start out this thread with your same old lie.
The NRA is exactly what it says it is. It is much more than a ‘rights’ organization, however, its defense of the Second Amendment is the primary reason that I am a member.
Give me one example of your false claim that the “. . . NRA exists today solely to promote the sale of guns.”
The truth about the NRA, not more of Monkeyhawk’s lies:
http://www.nra.org/aboutus.aspx
Speaking of lies, when Obama said in his speech the the other day that ‘95% of guns confiscated in Mexico’ were traceable to the US it was a lie. It was a bold faced whopper of a lie.
Only about 30% of the traceable guns confiscated are traced to the US. Most guns cannot be traced at all. Only about 20% of the confiscated guns in Mexico can be traced. Guns sold in the US can be traced to the US therefore if a gun is not traceable it didn’t come from the US.
The Mexican drug cartels use a lot of full automatic weapons. None of these are bought in the US.
Why does our president continue to lie to us?
HLP: I’m inclined to accept the huge number of guns traceable to the US if for no other reason a credible body of work substanitates the problem. 3 countries point to the inventory of assault weapons etc., readily available only in the US. Canada has 120 murders by guns every year,they can and do trace 85% of guns used in all crime to either Virgian or Georgia, being close to the numbers the US and Mexico cite. I suggest 3 places with the same findings indicate the conclusions are not rigged.
Interesting logic, sursum.
You use questionable statistics from biased anti-gun sources to confirm that other questionable statistics from a liar with an agenda must be true.
Mexico has a corrupt government that allows drug cartels to operate with impunity. They don’t have a ‘US gun problem.’
“HLP” –
Your boy tried yesterday to dismiss everything published in a Rolling Stone story by dismissing the source.
And you come up with an nra.com link to justify your contention the National Rifle Association isn’t a marketing arm of the firearms industry?
It’s been a few years ago and I really don’t want to seek it out, but the NRA mounted a huge public relations campaign a while back defending the handgun manufacturer who put in “fingerprint-proof texturing” or somesuch in thier ads.
Now why would anyone try to make “fingerprint-proof” a product feature unless, y’know, fingerprints might interfere with your intended use of the weapon?
Let’s look at gun sales in states that border Mexico. Have they gone up? By how much? What kind of weapons have fueled the uptick in sales? What about attendance at border state gun shows. What about private, non-commercial gun dealers’ sales? Where are the weapons being shipped to? Close to Juarez or Tijuana?
I don’t know the answers.
But I’ve seen the consequences.
But your nra.com link doesn’t care about the consequences as long as its sponsors can sell more guns.
And what will be the end result of this finger pointing game, more gun restrictions in the US? What a joke…currently in Mexico, it is illegal for anyone but the police/military to own or possess a firearm. Fat lot of good that law does. Does anyone really believe that more restrictive laws in the US will stop the people who are already openly breaking a federal law? Get real…they will find guns no matter what..and law abiding US citizens will have yet another piece of freedom taken away.
But your nra.com link doesn’t care about the consequences as long as its sponsors can sell more guns.
____________________________________
You ignore my point and avoid my question.
Name one gun manufacturer that ’sponsors the NRA’.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2222277/posts
Josh Sugarman- proven liar. Finding a new way to lie about the Tiahrt amendment.
First off the American/Mexican gun lie has been debunked by numerous sources as diverse as the LA Times and Fox News.
But just ask yourselves this. If you are a crimnal interprise with megabucks to spend why would you sneak into the US and blow 800-1200 bucks for a semi-auto AR-15 when on the international black market you can spend that same amount of change and get 3-4 full-auto AK’s? And at the same marketplace you can pick up the grenades and RPG’s you are after as well? One stop shopping.
Don’t get stuck on stupid people. Politicians and msm from both sides of the border are lying to you.
The anti-gun morons are even using statistics from guns that are stolen in the US and then turn up in Mexico as being a supplied weapon ; same for guns sold to the Mexican police and military; if their troops defect to the cartels and take their weapons with them then they are said to have come from the USA; Hugo Chavez the Communist leader of Venezuela has a Russian built arms factory where almost all the machine guns and grenades come from; NOBAMA will lie about anything to further his Communist agenda and destroy America.
HLP: Guns are legal in all 3 countries I thought, just not concealed carry or what is called an assault weapon, and I really don’t know what that means. So how is there an anti-gun lobby behind the official stats of say the Canadian/Mexican findings? Not having the 2nd ammendment or the NRA as a target why would they use “questionbale” or biased statistics for support their own findings?
per the ATF and the Mexican govt.
“In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.”
Heckler
Posted April 18, 2009 at 8:14 am | Permalink
But just ask yourselves this. If you are a crimnal interprise with megabucks to spend why would you sneak into the US and blow 800-1200 bucks for a semi-auto AR-15 when on the international black market you can spend that same amount of change and get 3-4 full-auto AK’s? And at the same marketplace you can pick up the grenades and RPG’s you are after as well?
—
I tend to agree with your reasoning, but not all of it.
And although it isn’t the only source of black market military weaponry, Iraq is probably the largest today.
If it’s true that Mexico’s drug gangs are organized sufficiently that a better description of them is “Mexico’s illegal drug industry,” then it’s probably true that they would buy in bulk and centrally.
However, that can be true yet still not explain the violence in Mexico. For example, it may be that the largest source of violence are those gangs that are locked out of the illegal drug industry and that are trying to gain market share. Those gangs may not be large enough or organized well enough to employ central purchasing when it comes to weapons. These gangs may use instead weapons procured in the US.
My guess is that the illegal-drug industry in Mexico does indeed procure weapons from Iraq, but they’re not responsible for the first shot. The first shots over the illegal-drug market may well be fired by weapons procured in the US.
If I were employed as a strategic planner for Al Qaeda, then I might use the following.
One, my organization acquired vast quantities of military weapons in Iraq. These are now available for sale.
Two, the US with its 2nd Amendment is not likely to outlaw and confiscate guns.
Three, the US is also not likely to legalize marijuana.
Four, Mexico is the largest distributor of marijuana to the US (Mexican gangs are currently waging war in British Columbia to acquire distribution rights there and flowing south into the US, too).
Five, why not sell my Iraq stockpiles to Mexico to further destablize North America?
Another good question to ask yourselves-
It’s estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?
This gun issue problem has been answered many times by many people.
The assertions by the media, O’Bama and the Mexican President are lies. They were prove to be lies and they are still lies.
“Cynical” starts off with –
“The anti-gun morons….”
Yeah. THAT’s the way to enter into a meaningful dialog with whom you might disagree.
Are too many people getting shot in America or not enough?
Heckler
Posted April 18, 2009 at 8:33 am | Permalink
Another good question to ask yourselves-
It’s estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?
—
I have no idea what kinds of weapons the Mexican military and police use.
However, it should be possible to learn this. There was a story in yesterday’s WSJ about ammunition as an investment by some Americans.
It would be fascinating to learn what the coefficient of correlation is between Mexican army and police weapons (the caliber of ammunition they need) and the calibers most in demand here in the US.
If there’s a strong correlation, it would lend weight to your argument.
According to the WSJ, some Americans (especially here in the South) have been stockpiling ammunition since last fall when the stock markets first began tanking in earnest. According to the article, they purposely diverted pre-tax investments in their 401k to after-tax investments in ammunition.
Assuming they’re rational, this implies one thing: they will sell that ammunition. They won’t sit on it forever. It is for resale at some point.
I wonder if any of them have resold stocks to agents for Mexican drug gangs already. I wouldn’t doubt it. A sale is a sale, after all, just as a retirement investment must one day become a retirement investment.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123984046627223159.html
I’ve been stocking up on ‘Pet Rocks’ and nerf ball weapons.
Nothing would be more insulting than to have an injury from a rock named Myrtle or rendered unconscious from automatic nerf weapons.
Anything you do not like or see a need for is the cause of anything else you do not like or see a need for.
Ted Bundy said it was Porn that drove him to kill women! Of course he did not say that until he was facing his execution and had ran out of appeals and willing supporters. But the organization against Porn jumped to his defense once he agreed to be their poster boy against porn.
There is the same element to this topic too, there are established organizations that are anti-gun and have seen their cause losing the battle. The repeal of the Assault weapons ban hurt them and here is a golden side issue to use to try and get it back. It is the availability of guns that is causing the killing in Mexico!
Oh not the competition for the drug trade in one of the largest drug user nations just next door.
Not because their country is more third world then an industrial country so easy money makes life cheap.
Obama has already said he does not support the return of the Assault weapons ban. So the anti powers need to bring a Ted Bundy to bear to support and pressure the Administration to do what it wants.
I don’t understand, if the problem is the US’s fault as according to hillary and president hussein, this being the drugs coming in and the guns going out, WHY has president hussein NOT closed the border with mexico until the problem is rectified. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out.
Doesn’t this solve many problems across the board. It stops drugs from coming in. According to dems, if you make the price high enough, less people will use them (see tobacco).
It stops guns from going into mexico, again according the hillary and hussein, WE supply the weapons.
It stops illegals from crossing the border.
It will cause those corporations that moved their jobs to mexico to NOT be able to sell their products in the US and maybe they’ll come back.
It will cause… WAIT, thats right hussein want to open up the US to cuba, so everything will start flowing from there… NEVERMIND
The solution is:
- Lock down the border to Mexico on both sides.
- 100 percent inspection: (No drugs, no guns, no contraband)
- Supply psychiatrists to duh Libs when their supply of drugs is cut off.
Oh I don’t know generaston maybe for the same damn reason that after this nation was attacked by foreigners. Bush did not closed down the borders to stop the unrestricted flow of foreigners into the country! Where would anyone find the cheap labor?
generaston
Posted April 18, 2009 at 9:11 am | \l “comment-557187″
I don’t understand, if the problem is the US’s fault as according to hillary and president hussein, this being the drugs coming in and the guns going out, WHY has president hussein NOT closed the border with mexico until the problem is rectified. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out.
“per the ATF and the Mexican govt.
“In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.”
1. Cons are actually this stupid.
2. They’re just trying to make us mad.
3. Cons exist in another dimension with different math.
4. Cons are dark matter.
beber
Got a problem with math?
I kinda think Mexico is a failed state or close to it and that the hullaballoo about guns is just that, a smokescreen for the real source for the misery she finds herself enduring. Having said that I believe that the array of weaponry and calibre available legally in the US is just plain madness. Moore, in one of his questionable documentaries, claimed there are 7 million guns in Canada (population 33 million) or roughly the same % of homes with firearms as America. He pointed out also that there were 100 deaths by firearms, when the film was made, so I submit therefore that guns do not kill but despair, poverty and fear prompt the near occasions of that happening, guns are merely at hand. But I still think the allegation of the pro 2nd ammendment types to be just plain madness.
So it’s number one, is it?
The NRA is America’s oldest civil rights organization. It was and is solely dedicated to your RIGHT (listed in the Bill of Rights, and confirmed by SCOTUS) to keep and bear arms.
The NRA DOES support existing laws. Read LaPierre’s reply. The frustration here is multi-faceted. 1. There is no enforcement of existing laws. 2. Politicians are using a 90% figure with no basis in fact, when the ATF who does the counting places the number at 17%. 3. Mexico has become a lawless cesspool and is looking for an alibi. 4. The violence in Mexico is spreading across the border, giving Americans even more reason to “arm up” to protect themselves.
Forces in the United States have a vested interest in the continuous failed condition of the nation of Mexico. As far as I know, ALL of those forces are connected with right wing American ideology. This is probably just another element of that.
Mexico is not failed. What makes you think it is? It is free, relatively prosperous, has a dynamic manufacturing base which is growing rather than shrinking, feeds and educates its people, and is literate. Plus it’s a trip. What criteria are you using to judge Mexico?
beber: The imminent faled state status has been pegged on the utter reliance on NAFTA and remittances from the Mexican disapora. If NAFTA were cleaned up or, all illegasl sent back, I think disaster would ensue. The tourism trade has been hurt badly as well arising from the reports of violence. She’s may be sailing close to the wind of failure I think, but I have no first hand experiences of Mexico, just what I read…..No that’s not true. I did visit Tihujana(?) years ago for a day and felt that the revolutions they’ve had, didn’t take. I was angered by what I saw.
Millions of people do not flee from a successful nation.
“As far as I know, ALL of those forces are connected with right wing American ideology.”
“As far as I know”? How about a link? Or is this just more hot air?
A little hard to specify down to a link.
Certainly it is in Republican interest to exploit the cheap labor the Mexican refugees provide. It was a Republican President and Congress that presided over the weak implementation of the NAFTA environmental and labor standards.
BlueJay – since illegal immigration is apparently a purely Republican problem in your opinion, help me out with why the unions are pairing up with illegals to fill out their roster, the majority of Hispanics voted for Obama, sanctuary cities are all run by Dems and Dems in DC are all pushing for blanket amnesty for all illegal immigrants, while US citizens scramble for jobs, not to mention out of control budget issues at every level of government?
MonkeyHawk,
“Your boy tried yesterday to dismiss everything published in a Rolling Stone story by dismissing the source.”
Actually, no, I didn’t. I asked Agnatha to post the evidence from that source she thought was proving her case because I didn’t much care to read through such a biased load of crap as the “article” was.
“And you come up with an nra.com link to justify your contention the National Rifle Association isn’t a marketing arm of the firearms industry?”
No, he posted the stated mission of the NRA.
“Now why would anyone try to make “fingerprint-proof” a product feature unless, y’know, fingerprints might interfere with your intended use of the weapon?”
Many times the fingerprint can ruin the finish of some guns if not cleaned right away. The oily residue that is left behind can tarnish and start to eat away at a finish.
Either way, this is not proof that the NRA is nothing more than a “marketing arm of firearms manufacturers” as you claim.
“Let’s look at gun sales in states that border Mexico. Have they gone up?”
You tell us.
“By how much?”
Again, you tell us. Weapon sales are up 50% all over the country since Obama took office.
“What kind of weapons have fueled the uptick in sales?”
You tell us.
“What about attendance at border state gun shows. What about private, non-commercial gun dealers’ sales?”
Personal sales are not required to be tracked.
“Where are the weapons being shipped to? Close to Juarez or Tijuana?”
Again, you tell us.
“But I’ve seen the consequences.”
And what would those be?
“But your nra.com link doesn’t care about the consequences as long as its sponsors can sell more guns.”
And yet another unsubstantiated assertion on your part as to the motivations of the NRA.
A nice try DFB.
The things you name are Democrats exploiting an end situation.
As in, they are making the most out of illegals…
…after they are already here.
At best, that is Democrats with a second hand interest in Mexico staying a failed nation.
But it was a good try.
“Millions of people do not flee from a successful nation.”
So Canada is failing? I didn’t know that. And the USA? One million Americans live in Mexico permanently.
Blue – just as long as you can feel good about exploiting them while you blame the GOP, then it’s all good. Apparently every farmer in CA, meat processor anywhere, hotel chain anywhere, restaurant owner in border states or construction company anywhere are all owned by Republicans. I’m sure the ads ran in San Fran, paid by Newsome’s tax dollars, were just for those already here and not inviting their friends and family back home to come on up too. Remind me again which party wanted to build a wall and which one fought it, I always forget.
I don’t believe we are overwhelmed with millions of Canadians and a million Americans are probably in Mexico to take advantage of the failed Mexican economy and the worthless peso.
Trying to argue that Mexico has anything approaching a properly functioning government is rather silly.
Remind ME of the party that always talks about building a wall and then never does it even when they are in charge.
The virgin prophet “Nathaniel” won’t read this because it’s from the NY Times –
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15guns.html
I’ve got more, boy.
What? Are you fighting your daddy’s battles these days?
They go there for Freedom, Blue Jay. Mexico actually has it.
MonkeyHawk,
Got more what?
The article has nothing to do with the claim you made.
Blue – I’ll at least give you credit for admitting that the Dems taking advantage of illegal immigrants is nothing but a political power play (amnesty). As if it wasn’t transparent enough already. They’re at least smart enough to realize Nov’s election was more a referendum against Bush than for Obama. I don’t remember trying to make any argument about Candadians or the failing Mex govt, so apparently that weaves into the Dems platform on sanctuary cities/amnesty how again?
beber: Come on now, neither the Canadians in the States or the Amercians in Mexico are fleeing anything in the sense that you imply. Well, maybe the Canadians do flee…..the cold for many, many of them winter in the south. However they are major contributors to the local “waiting-for-god” economies not a burden. Same thing with Americans in Mexico I would think.
Right, “Nathaniel” –
“Nothing in the world” about gun trafficking across the Mexican border.
Jeez.
The Canadians come to the U.S. for the same reason the Mexicans do: Jobs. The Mexicans don’t “flee” Mexico; they can make more money here. While many end up as permanent residents; many “flee” right back to Mexico as soon as they earn enough to buy a business. The Mexicans who do live here have an affection and a loyalty to their former country, or didn’t the marches in L.A. teach anyone a damned thing? Hardly the attitude of anyone who “fled.” I’m no expert on Mexico, but I’ve visited it many times, and what I see is a wonderful country full of great hard-working people doing the best they can. They have big problems, sure, sort of like the U.S.A. But they are hardly a failed state. That’s Lou Dobbs glop. As for Canadians, I’ll wager that a larger percentage of Canadian-born people live and work in the U.S. than do Mexican-born people. That is, a percentage in relation to the population of the country.
I also find it ironic that people in the U.S. decry the violence in Mexico. Although Mexico has a higher murder rate, it’s far from the highest in the world, and the U.S. is not far behind.
Amnesty, you simpletons, is the only answer because otherwise, we are the Nazis. Do you think you can just round up 9 million people and deport them? When was the last time a round up on such a scale occurred? Friggin’ idiots. Look around you. Who is building this country, slopping poop in the rest homes, slinging hash, pounding nails into roofs? Hint: they ain’t white.
And by the way; the next time you have a toke, Blue Jay, thank your superiors, the Mexicans. They’ll find a way to serve whether you like them or not.
Who do you think used to do those jobs before Mexico failed its own people and sent them scurrying here?
Mexico is a rich country absolutely corrupted with plutocracy. Its number one source of income is the earnings of its refugees to the US.
“They’ll find a way to serve whether you like them or not.”
I have no dislike for the Mexican people. It IS hard to respect them when they have not the pride to fix their own country. Rather they run away from it and try to buy a stake into the corruption.
That 90% number is bogus. They send a small fraction of guns to the U.S. to be traced. How many guns with Chinese or Russian writing do they send to the US?
beber: Skilled constrution workers from Mexico are listed as 5,286,000, non skilled or illegals are not covered. 365,000 Canadians listed as managers or administrators, work here. Canada is also listed as being one of the major benefactors of the brain drain. Here’s a point, there are 750,000 Americans in Canada working or dependants…I guess for I can’t see retiring in place with 9 months of winter and 3 months of poor skating. As a % of total population Mexican presence seems much higher.
beber: Some more numbers from the same site: Workers from the Phillipines 850,000, India 746,000, China 653,000, Germany 476,000. It is “estimated” some 14 million Mexicans are in the US.
Mexico has strict gun control and look at the results. Restricting our rights to own firearms is not going to work any better.
“U.S. guns are fueling Mexican drug war”
Well no wonder that I can’t find a lot of U.S. guns!
Every time that I go into a gun shop or a gun show, I always find so many guns made in a foreign countries like Argentina, Brazil, China, Russia, Spain, Germany, Finland, Switzerland, Poland and Italy.
I think somebody is making up some phony numbers.
Criminee.
The numbers being tossed around – 90%, etc., aren’t about facts, they’re about agenda and justification for that agenda. It’s no different than the Tiahrt amendment lie that pops up here with regularity, despite being an obvious fabrication.
It’s idiotic when you think about it. Latin America is awash with black market weapons; someone with cash and the willingness to traffic in illicit articles (gosh, that definition wouldn’t fit, well, drug cartels, or anything, would it?) can buy anything – literally anything – on that black market easier and cheaper than coming to the US and buying from that eeeeeeevil gun show “loophole” and then running the risk of taking it across the border. Yet politians want to demonize US gunowners and sellers and blame them.
(scratching chin – this would be the dream sequence . . .)
Hmmmm – I can buy anything – full auto, grenades, RPGs, mines, claymores, etc; on the black market, OR I could go to the US, pay 2-3 times as much for SEMI-automatic weapons (I know; many of those who so desperately want to ban those eeeevil black rifles don’t know the difference. Hmmmmm – tough call . . . .
Yea, that makes sense. [that's sarcasm, folks].
Even if they wanted to- try to find full-auto ARs and AK’s in an American gun shop. Find RPGs. Find grenades. Go ahead, try. Get a clue; you won’t find them.
But it’s our fault.
Are the weapons “traced” to the US? Well sure; when one cherry picks the weapons one wants to trace. And that trace tells us what, exactly? That carefully cherry-picked M-16 was made here. So – how did it get there? You all know the US sells, perfectly legally and with the blessing of the Federal gov’t, thousands of weapons to the Mexican military and police each year, don’t you (to fight those very cartels)? Given the general level of corruption rampant there, how many of those do you think wind up in the hands of the cartels when they buy off the local constable, or when the soldiers desert? Hmmm?
Want to blame someone? Blame the federal gov’t which authorizes and promotes those sales.
Yet we’re told that it is the fault of American gun owners and sellers that Mexico is violent. Riiight. Remember, folks, Mexico BANS guns; hell, it’s Obama, Fienstein, Shumer, and Co.’s wet dream. Surely, SURELY, the violence you hear about cannot be true, as we all know that gun bans stop violence . . . (rolls eyes).
So – Why the lie? What is their agenda? Once you figure that out, it’s easy. It’s the same agenda they’ve been pursuing for years. Yet American gun owners are “paranoid” for recognizing the obvious. Yeesh.
The left will believe anything that suits their world view, facts be damned. And Constitution be damned.
Even the administrations usually reliable sycophants say that the 90% number is pure hogwash:
From the LA Times:
On his recently concluded first visit to Mexico as president, a week after telling Europeans that his country had been at times arrogant, President Barack Obama blamed his own country for providing 90% of Mexico’s recovered crime guns.
According to a report by the independent FactCheck.org this afternoon, that’s incorrect. By a, uh, long shot.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/barack-obama-gun.html
But there’s no agenda. Nah.
It is not relevant – the 2nd amendment doesn’t grant me the right to firearms only as long as it is convenient for another country. Keep Mexico’s problems (and people, for that matter) in Mexico!
” Its number one source of income is the earnings of its refugees to the US.”
Remittances are less than four percent of the Mexican economy. Fourteen percent of the Mexican labor force works in the USA, and about 2 percent of the Canadian labor force, so I was wrong there. About 70,000 undocumented Canadians work here. Mexico does have a lot of poor people, as anyone who has visited the villages can easily see. All I ask is when you drive off to your next hate rally tea party, think of who poured the ‘crete on the road you’re driving on. We aborted our poor, but we still need them.
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Those 11,000 firearms were part of the 29,000 firearms Mexican officials recovered at crime scenes. According to the ATF, of the 11,000 submitted to U.S. officials for tracing, 6,000 could be traced somewhere because of the serial numbers or other distinctive markings. Of those 6,000 firearms, 5,114 or 90 percent, were found to have been smuggled from the U.S.
The White House stands by the president’s use of the word “recovered” in describing the role firearms smuggled from the U.S. play in Mexico’s drug war.
“We feel good about these numbers and that’s why the president uses the word recovered,” McDonough said.
Just to repeat: recovered doesn’t mean the percentage of all firearms confiscated at Mexican crime scenes. It doesn’t mean the subset of these firearms traceable to any source. It does mean the percentage of traceable weapons linked to a U.S. source. And, again, that total is 5,114 out of 29,000 — or 17.6 percent — in the years 2007 and 2008.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/19/obama-repeats-percent-stat-guns-recovered-mexico/
“Fox News has put the percentage at only 17 percent, but we find that to be based on a mistaken assumption that throws its figure way off. We can’t offer a precise calculation because we know of no hard information on the total number of guns Mexican officials have recovered. But if a rough figure given by Mexico’s attorney general is accurate, then the actual percentage of all Mexican crime guns traced to U.S. sources is probably less than half what the president claims, and more than double what Fox news has reported.”
http://www.factcheck.org/politics/counting_mexicos_guns.html
1. Just because guns can’t be traced doesn’t mean they didn’t come from the U.S.
2. Because guns weren’t submitted for tracing doesn’t mean they couldn’t be traced. They could have come from the U.S.
3. When 90 percent of traceable weapons are found to come from the U.S., you could reasonably assume that the untraceable weapons also came from the U.S.
4. Only the dumbest of the dumb believe anything reported by Fox news.
5. Repeat 4.
6. Mistaken assumption translates in Foxspeak to “outright deliberate lie.”
1. Just because guns can’t be traced doesn’t mean they didn’t come from the U.S.
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Nor does it mean that they did.
2. Because guns weren’t submitted for tracing doesn’t mean they couldn’t be traced. They could have come from the U.S.
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And they could not have. Most likely they were not submitted for what reason? Probably because they knew they didn’t come from the US or couldn’t be traced to the US.
3. When 90 percent of traceable weapons are found to come from the U.S., you could reasonably assume that the untraceable weapons also came from the U.S.
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Um, no. Logically speaking you are wrong. What reasoning do you use to prove such an assertion?
4. Only the dumbest of the dumb believe anything reported by Fox news.
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Only the dumbest of the dumb believe anything from President Obama.
6. Mistaken assumption translates in Foxspeak to “outright deliberate lie.”
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Same for the President too. He made an outright deliberate lie.
No he didn’t lie. Ninty percent of illegal weapons in Mexico most likely come from the U.S.A. Ninty percent of the illegal drugs in the U.S.A. do. Don’t you think the traffic is two way? Who has the cash in the only country in the world where you can walk into a store and buy an assault weapon by showing a driver’s license. What a brainwashed bunch you are.
And why weren’t all guns confiscated in Mexico submitted to the ATF for a check? Because it’s MEXICO you friggin’ idiot. There is no requirement in another country that confiscated weapons must be submitted to an American agency. GAWD.
bebie
Let me add to what Nathan said.
Only the dumbest of the dumb would believe the 90 percent lie that Obama and the media keep putting out there.
How do you even know (you personally) how to tell when Obama means what he says? Everything he says seems to come with an experation date. How do you know what he really means?
You really are No. 1, Heckler.
bebei
It was a simple question.How do you personally know when Obo is telling the truth?
The left will believe anything that suits their world view, facts be damned.
That would be you, beber. No matter how illogical, no matter now unsupported by facts, as long as it fits your world view.
beber
Who has the cash in the only country in the world where you can walk into a store and buy an assault weapon by showing a driver’s license. What a brainwashed bunch you are.
I repeat my question from 8:14 am yesterday-
But just ask yourselves this. If you are a crimnal interprise with megabucks to spend why would you sneak into the US and blow 800-1200 bucks for a semi-auto AR-15 when on the international black market you can spend that same amount of change and get 3-4 full-auto AK’s? And at the same marketplace you can pick up the grenades and RPG’s you are after as well? One stop shopping.
Now who’s the one that sounds brainwashed?
You don’t know anything about the international black market do you Heckler? Give me a link to the international black gun market with prices and then we’ll talk. If you insist it’s something you “just know” then I’ll drop a little line about you to the ATF. You idiot. They come here to buy the guns because 1. this is where they are; and 2. this is where the guns are. And 3. Cash is meaningless to them. They bury it in the desert in 55-gallon oil drums because they can’t find places to launder it.
Friggin’ idiot.
Have you ever stopped to think there is no gun shortage or increased demand at all but the gun dealers are using your paranoia to run up the prices. Every shop I went into was well stocked with assault weapons and ammo of all types. I bet every gun show has them for sale too. Time to fleece the sheeple. I mean idiots. It’s a classic bubble. Don’t you ever learn anything?
Plug “weapons confiscated Mexico” into Google images. Then you’ll know what kinds of weapons are being confiscated and where they likely come from. But none of you will. That’s because you don’t want to know the truth or for that matter, much of anything else. That’s the way it is with people who have learned all they are going to.
Gosh, I don’t know what motives the liars have for claiming 90% of the illegal guns in Mexico come from the US.
Maybe it’s the same motive for those who lie about the Tiahrt amendment?
Or the same motive for those who lie about redistributing wealth?
Don’t know what their motives are, but they sure seem to not want law-abiding people to have guns.
Don’t know what their motives are, but they sure what to repeal the Tiahrt amendment to get to more gun records, even those guns not linked to any specific crime even, for some reason.
Don’t know what their motives are, but they sure want to tax the rich even more, and provide more welfare to a very select group called the poor, for some reason.
Huh…
And what would the motive of the WE be?
The Eagle keeps attacking the 2nd amendment in a variety of ways.
I wonder what their motive is?
Huh….
beber learned all that he knows from – Google.
Amazing…
“beber learned all that he knows from – Google.” — JJ
Thanks for confirming what I’ve always suspected. To a Con, looking things up is ignorance. But you’re right; I might read something out of CONtext.
If we really wanted this to stop. We would stop it. We profit on selling guns no matter what the human cost is. Pure and simple.
Face it, the war on drugs, was lost a long time ago. We have just been to high in latitude to notice.