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227 Comments
The Liberal myth of 183. Just one in a long string of falsehoods the Left warms itself with.
“It turns out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators, as the liberal MSM widely reported. Instead, according to Joseph Abrams of Fox News, 183 represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed’s face — not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on him. Abrams cites a 2007 Red Cross report which states that the terror mastermind was subjected to a total of “five sessions of ill-treatment.”
Unfortunately, readers of the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. now have a vastly distorted picture of what the CIA did to KSM. However, I doubt that the public as a whole much cares how many times, or in what manner, we doused this killer in order to cause him to tell us what he knew.
Still there is merit to Abe Greenwald’s take on the liberal myth-making surrounding this issue:
George W. Bush’s critics spent eight years feverishly accusing the administration of crimes. They had it easy because there was no serious burden of proof. But the prospect of an actual investigation means they can no longer play fast and loose with the facts. Convicting a party of federal crimes isn’t like making a paranoid “documentary” or writing a best-selling hit job. The charges have to jibe with reality, for a change.”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/04/023451.php
“Heckler” –
Perhaps you missed this key point from Stephen Bradbury’s 2005 memo.
“…where authorized, it may be used for two “sessions” per day of up to two hours. During a session, water may be applied up to six times for ten seconds or longer (but never more than 40 seconds). In a 24-hour period, a detainee may be subjected to up to twelve minutes of water application. (See id. at 42.) Additionally, the waterboard may be used on as many as five days during a 30-day approval period.”
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf
Perhaps you should get your news from the source, rather than powerline.com and Newtie Gingrich.
Monkey”boy”
what’s your point?
Liz Cheney Totally Crushes The Hapless Loon Laura O’Donnell On “Torture”
fun viewing.
http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2009/04/owned.html
Specter says party switch driven partly by desire to keep seat…
So much for the discussion about Specter leaving for idealogical reasons or the superiority of the democratic party or the rising tide of liberism.
Certainly kills those blogs which inferred Specters move asa a sign of the death of the republican party….
Good old fashion selfish reasons….
He should make a good democrat.
Christians have their dream candidate for governor in Georgia. He is a true Christian who wants abortion doctors executed, has had sex with a mule (Jesus rode one, why not he), and is willing to execute his own son if God tells him too. Plus, he’s been to Wichita and joined in with criminal terrorist organization Operation Rescue to spread Christian love throughout the community.
Behold the new Christian governor, make that true Christian governor of Georgia, Neal Horsley.
http://rawstory.com/08/blog/2009/04/30/candidate-for-georgia-governorship-says-hed-kill-his-own-son-to-secede/
In other news…the farthest glimpse of an object has been seen. A gamma burst from an exploding star was witnessed at a distance of 13 billion light years, meaning it exploded when the universe was a mere 630 million years old.
Naturally creationists will say this is impossible because the speed of light is just a theory and the universe is only 10,000 years old. Once again science proves them wrong.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090428-gamma-burst.html
I see Maggie had his usual breakfast of hate Chex and bigot milk.
How is that outlander, I’m just repeating what’s in the news. The links are provided if you are skeptical of the claims.
No biggie outlander, if it wasn’t for hate, Maggot wouldn’t have any emotions at all.
outlander,
So how old is the universe?
‘GRB 090423: The Farthest Explosion Yet Measured ‘
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090429.html
I wasn’t there Cosmos. Ask Jed.
#
outlander
Posted April 30, 2009 at 8:06 am | Permalink
I wasn’t there Cosmos. Ask Jed.
===============================
hahaha!
Cosmos, how can you post something so hateful? I don’t know why it’s hateful to present an astronomical finding but outlander and Regular find such discoveries hateful. Maybe it’s because it causes some cognitive dissonance in their beliefs.
What? No thread for this?
“Thomas Etheredge, Wild West World founder, is arrested
BY BILL WILSON, The Wichita Eagle
Wild West World founder Thomas Etheredge was taken into custody at the San Antonio airport late this afternoon on a Kansas warrant for investigation of fraud, according to state and airport officials. ”
YOU remember. The guy who tried to realize Hee Haw as a fun park?
You must be mistaken BlueJay. Thomas Etheredge went to Terry Fox’s church, therefore he has superior fundy morals and would never do such a dishonest thing.
Maggotpunk,
It’s okay, outlander found a happy answer to my hateful question. . . he answered that he doesn’t know.
Life in a nation run by religious extremists. A proposed blasphemy law would make violations punishable by a $200,000 fine and police would be able to break into your home and steal such blasphemous material like a Richard Dawkins book, anything by Charles Darwin, or a Monty Python movie.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ahern-defends-new-blasphemy-law-1724069.html
Hence the reason we can’t let the Christian fundies take over the government, they hate our freedoms.
“It’s okay, outlander found a happy answer to my hateful question. . . he answered that he doesn’t know.”
Yeah, a lack of intellectual curiosity will do that. I suppose investigating the issue would cause him to question his shaky faith, which is why fundies hate science.
From our host today on the Etheredge story:
“Kansas law requires that investors must receive an accurate picture of a business’s financial status before investing. Several investors told the state and The Eagle that Etheredge offered no prospectus or park balance sheets, characterizing the park only as a good investment.”
If fraud was committed he certainly needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I’m sure Thomas did think a theme park was a “good investment.” He’s probably the only one who did. To put your money into something like this even with the prospectus and balance sheets I’d describe as risky to say the least.
Serious question for the Christian “critics” among us..Do you consider yourself a sinner? Do you believe in sin?
Torture is fuqed and YOU are a fuqed-in-the-head individual if you agree with and approve of it.
But then again, the THREE GOD’s that most Christians today worship, just love the schitt. They party down to it…bring back the Inquisition. Because if anything, we’re way too wimpy with the torture, we’ve gone soft over the past 1000 years.
So is that a no to you believe in sin itself or consider yourself a sinner?
Funny thing about torture. The great moralist Sean Hannity says water boarding isn’t torture and claims he’ll agree to be water boarded, yet he continues to hide from doing the deed. Keith Olbermann has agreed to pay out $1,000 to charity for each second Hannity is tortured.
The torture advocates preach a lot, but they are cowards when it comes to actually putting their money where their mouths are.
Want I’d like to see is alternatives to the techniques that have been used by those that are so against them.
Anyone?
Pleef
Define torture.
“YOU remember. The guy who tried to realize Hee Haw as a fun park?”-Blue Jay
“SALUTE!”
That was funny.
Although, I love Buck Owens and Junior Samples.
That Etheredge crime boss still owes me and my family for 4 season passes.
Maggotpunk
Posted April 30, 2009 at 7:49 am | Permalink
Christians have their dream candidate for governor in Georgia. He is a true Christian who wants abortion doctors executed, has had sex with a mule (Jesus rode one, why not he), and is willing to execute his own son if God tells him too.
___________
Maggot, I thought you homos were in favor of having relations with anything that moves. Didn’t your nic come from “getting punked by maggonts”?
Oops, That’s “getting punked by maggots”.
Don, the name came from one of the clinic protesters who said, “Y’all a bunch of maggot punks aren’t you?”
ok Heck, I’ll play.
Torture is: causing pain or “discomfort” to get an answer that suits the torturer’s needs, regardless of whether or not the answer is really there. They used to boil the “heretics” feet to get “demons” out and to extract “confessions”, y’know? I’m pretty sure that the inquisitor’s didn’t see too many innocents.
But you see, we’ll never EVER know what really went on in any of those sites. To me, these released documents are convenient strawmen. They’ll get us bitsching and moaning over waterboarding, deflecting any REAL inquiries and investigations into any hard core treatment.
But then again, I trust nothing this government (or the past few) have to say about anything. Nevermind the released documents by an organization built upon secrecy and lies, CIA.
Now, I’ve defined torture (according to me), your turn.
Define: “terrorist”-
Pleefer
” “discomfort” ”
Well Pleefer that could be just about anything. To me it would be torture to watch any of the nightly news casts on any of the networks. Nancy Grace and Greta van Sustren would also qualify if done in amounts exceeding 5 seconds in any given hour.
The liberal press is out buying blue dresses and applying for an internship with Obama.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/29/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4979269.shtml
Pleefer
Posted April 30, 2009 at 9:16 am | Permalink
Define: “terrorist”-
—————————————————-
That’s easy. One who practices terrorism.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nancy Grace…she IS torture. Even thinking about her is pain.
Bush/Cheney causing “discomfort” to a detainee is a war crime.
Dropping a bomb on a building full of non-coms to get one or two terrorist leaders is just a good day at work for Obama.
The twists of the Liberal mind are trully amazing.
Define torture.
==================
Maggotpunk dancing and singing, “It’s raining men!”.
I had heard about Sheppard Smith going off over the issue of torture and its use by the United States.
But I had not seen it or heard the full details, so I went to youtube and looked for it and here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtFMj6ZiHM
I have to admit after the first couple of times I watch him on Fox I did not have much of a good opinion of Smith. But wow I kept finding all these clips where Sheppard Smith was making real sense and sounding like he actually was not a step and Fitch for Alies. There is even one where he is making fun of Glen Beck!
Is Smith a Liberal? Man he makes Alan Combs ( who was suppose to be the home Lib) look like Rush in comparison. He takes on the diatribe and call out things when he sees that something that is not true is said by a guess or another Fox news member.
Smith would be a good replacement for Combs on Hannity at least there might be a whale of a debate then.
He would get in Hannity face at least instead of Combs just countering with “ Oh yeah! well your mommy wears Army boots!”.
said by a guest
Warning Smith drops the “F” bomb in the video and makes the great statement “We do not torture!”
father it does not matter if it is effective or not.
We need to change our laws that protect elderly and children, or even criminal suspects from ‘psychological abuse’ since after all no permanent bodily harm is caused. And, physical abuse should be allowed to as long as there’s no organ failure induced.
What is, is, is equivalent to what torture is. It’s all a question of semantics.
Whether it is about abortion or torture this country need to do some real self reflection on what and who we are? It would be messy and distasteful as it always is when you look to the you that is really inside.
As to the reasons for and against and what is the real end result of it. We need to stop this trying to find the simple answers and justifications for and against it. As often the simple answers are not the true answers or taking into account just what it means to us.
Markets are loving dem sum Obama! What’s this make eight straight weeks of advances? Kind of gives one hope we’ll get through the republican destruction of the economy.
All the torture proponents are having to look into a mirror, my guess is they really don’t like what they see.
Phantom with the claim as long as it does not cause lasting damage or injury. It is not that it is torture is a straw man.
With medical advance we have, a severed arm, leg, hand or foot can be reattached with great success.
Would it convince some to talk if we were to cut off a hand? It could be reattached within the day so not lasting damage or injury!
Mental? Well with the end-road there is in the treatment of the mentally ill there too might not be any lasting damage or injury! See the camel’s nose under the tent here?
If the focus is on damage or injury to the person that we want the information from. Then pouring gas over their child and striking a match does not damage or injury the person with the information themselves!
Phantom
Posted April 30, 2009 at 10:12 am | Permalink
We need to change our laws that protect elderly and children, or even criminal suspects from ‘psychological abuse’ since after all no permanent bodily harm is caused. And, physical abuse should be allowed to as long as there’s no organ failure induced.
————————————————–
My problem with your thought process is it shows no common sense.
If you can’t see the difference between a man, woman, child or a common criminal vs. an enemy combatant there’s really no point in trying to have a rational discussion.
writerdog
I understand what you’re saying.
But I’ve got a problem with people who want to prosecute Bush/Cheney & associates for war crimes over waterboarding and shaking guys by the lapels but seem to have no problem with Obama ordering the bombing of a building full of non-combatants to get a couple of terrorist leaders.
In other words it’s ok for Obama to kill a dozen women and kids to get a bad guy but its not ok for Bush to waterboard a guy to get info that could potentially save thousands.
The phuqing hypocrisy is too thick to cut with a shaped charge.
The Commerce Department reported Thursday that consumer spending dropped by 0.2 percent in March, worse than the 0.1 percent decline that economists had expected.
_____________________________
One of these days, Alice, we’ll get it right.
What’s this make eight straight weeks of advances? Kind of gives one hope we’ll get through the Democrats who controlled congress and the purse strings which caused the destruction of the economy.
“The phuqing hypocrisy is too thick to cut with a shaped charge.”
Bush torture to save lives = bad
Obama killing women and children = good
O’Bama is a baby killer.
The number of newly laid-off U.S. workers signing up for unemployment benefits drops unexpectedly, while people continuing to draw aid nears 6.3 million, setting a record for the 13th straight week.
______________________________
Anti is not a forecaster.
Anti is not a forecaster.
==================
I forecast rain today, over that way.
“What’s this make eight straight weeks of advances?”
Are you talking about the DJIA? There has not been eight weeks of advances, lately.
How many brown people has O’Bama killed today?
“In another interview, the vice president echoed Obama, saying it would be too complicated to close the border with Mexico and could carry even greater consequences. The president said in his prime time press conference Wednesday night that closing the border would be like shutting the barn door after the horses have escaped.
Well how about closing the barn door to keep the chickens, pigs, and horses out!?!! (illegals in/guns out).
Biden must be a city boy.
“How many brown people has O’Bama killed today?”
mulattos
Instead, according to Joseph Abrams of Fox News, 183 represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed’s face
*****
Not important.
It’s like counting the number of times that somebody chews their food while eating a sandwich.
It’s still “eating a sandwich.”
BTW, Heckler,
Why do you justify torturing Christ?
Watching Obama on the Chrysler bankruptcy, he’s a kick ass kind of guy. Sounds like they have a pretty good plan. Said he doesn’t stand with the hedge fund speculators that were demanding twice the value as other major lenders. The hedge funds may have overplayed their hand and not end up with anything after the chpt. 11.
Bush would’ve stood with the speculators.
Dow hits new record
Blue-chip average rallies, notching a new high on merger news; broader market gains.
By Jessica Dickler and Alexandra Twin, CNNMoney.com staff writers
May 18 2007: 4:09 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Stocks rose Friday, with the Dow Jones industrial average closing at another record high and the blue-chip indicator up for the seventh straight week, as investors cheered the latest merger news from Microsoft and talk of a deal involving General Electric.
The Dow (up 65.51 to 13,542.23, Charts) climbed about 0.6 percent to notch a new all-time high of 13,556.53. The blue-chip barometer also hit a fresh intraday high of 13,550.92 earlier in the session.
Special Reportfull coverage
Exxon profit falls on economy, lower prices
Oil prices inch higher
Gas prices hold steady over past two weeks
OPEC chief says oil prices are too low
California adopts first-ever low-carbon fuel rule
Oil falls 3% on flu outbreak
The broader S&P 500 index (up 9.20 to 1,521.95, Charts) rose 0.6 percent and ended at a new 6-year high. The index now stands just 5 points short of its all-time high from March 2000.
The tech-fueled Nasdaq composite (up 17.11 to 2,556.49, Charts) added 0.7 percent.
Ooops, got the wrong yr. Looks like it just missed last week, but I believe it’s up this week too.
Friday, April 24, 2009 | Modified: Monday, April 27, 2009
Dow climbs but misses 7th ‘up’ week; ProLogis leads Colorado gainersDenver Business Journal
Print Email Reprints RSS Feeds Add to Del.icio.us Digg This Comments (1)Related News
Dow falters at day’s end; Crocs leads Colorado gainers
Chipotle earnings up 47% in Q1
A bit of Beige Book optimism lifts Dow; Delta Petroleum leads Colorado gainers
Improved Fed outlook helps drive Dow; Kodiak Oil & Gas leads Colorado gainers
Health officials: Employers should start making plans for swine-flu outbreak
The Dow ended the week on the plus side, but not enough to post a seventh straight week of gains. In Colorado, ProLogis led actively traded gainers.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average finished the trading day at 8,076.29, up 119.23 points (1.5 percent).
The S&P 500 closed at 866.23, up 14.31 points (1.68 percent).
The NASDAQ Composite finished at 1,694.29, up 42.08 points (2.55 percent).
Perfect example of complete government control of what used to be private industry, banks, and even the bankruptcy judges. This is TOTAL CONTROL
“Chrysler’s unsecured creditors, namely the United Auto Workers union, appear poised to get the better deal. Under the current offer, the UAW will own 55pc of Chrysler’s equity in exchange for cutting Chrysler’s $10.6bn obligation in half. That implies the UAW believes Chrysler has an equity value of at least $9.6bn.
Secured lenders would normally have first dibs on those spoils. They have only a $6.9bn loan, so it is odd for them not to be repaid in full or at least receive some equity to compensate for losses. Instead, the Treasury is only offering $2bn in cash. The remaining equity is being divvied up by Fiat, the Italian carmaker, and the US government.
The union holds the key to Chrysler’s employees, who may have had more power in the negotiations with the labour-friendly Obama administration.
Moreover, it probably helped the Treasury’s negotiating position that banks with nearly $5bn of Chrysler’s secured debt have taken money from the government’s Troubled Asset Relief Programme to stabilise their own businesses. ” http://www.telegraph.co.uk
May 18 2007:
=========
Damn you’re dumb.
“Textron officials said they expect to refund some $50 million in deposits on the Columbus.”
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=busav&id=news/COLUMBUS042909.xml&headline=Cessna%20Sheds%20Columbus,%202,300%20More%20Employees
All this while the White takes Air Force One over Manhattan for a joy ride.
That’s “White House”.
Virtually 8 straight weeks of advances, Waaaaaa.
Heckler sometimes thing do not make sense, President Reagan decided to kill the leader of Libya.
But it is illegal to send in one guy with one rifle and fire one shot to kill him. BUT it is legal to order that half a country be blown to hell to kill him?
I can see where when the bad guys use the innocent as a shield some innocent will die.
But in the end it was the bad guys choice not ours,
It is not exactly what was done to the terrorist that is the bother, other then the torture I assume they were treated well and were kept healthy and well fed. Kind of an oxymoron huh? I keep saying though if the claim is it was done in the defense of the United States. Just what was it about the United States that was being defended? Bluntly, Americans have came and went for over two century now. And many more will die before this nation itself dies. So by killing any number of Americans will not mean that America is dead.
I would think and hope that what makes America the shining house on the hill will exist long after me, my
Children or their children are gone. Something’s are more important then even my children’s lives.
Is the land worth defending with violating the core principles of the United States?
This is not about land, there really is not one inch of land worth my child’s life.
What would the land be worth without it being for and with the American values?
NO it is not the people or the lands of the Untied States that is endanger from these actions.
It is what makes the peoples and lands worth fighting and dying for that is endanger.
Otherwise we become just a bird in a glinted cage instead of Americans.
A large part of the defections from the GOP, is that when thigs were good, millions of American workers came of age and joined the workforce during the Clinton yrs., and many of the older workers just forgot how bad Republicans screw up an economy.
They’ve now had their wake up call.
“Virtually 8 straight weeks of advances, Waaaaaa.”
Excellent example of spin.
Capn says- “BTW, Heckler,
Why do you justify torturing Christ?”
Sorry, you’ll have to explain that one to me.
The GOP is withering to its core, aka ‘Blue Dressers’.
Don’t pity Chrysler, the U.S. govt. is the debtor in possession.
I like that Fiat won’t be able to take a majority control until all taxpayer dollars has been repaid.
Brownback’s buzz word for ‘blue dressers’ is ‘value voters’, those voters that don’t care how bad you decrease the value of their net worth, as long as you talk up God.
Despite dire predictions about the impact of climate change on Australia’s iconic Great Barrier Reef, researchers have found that badly-damaged coral has managed to repair itself.
…
An unexpected discovery at the southern end of the reef has provided some rare good news for researchers. Researchers found that coral in the Keppel Islands off Queensland, which was damaged by bleaching in 2006 and then smothered by seaweed that overgrew the reef, has managed to repair itself.
Phantom, CF2K want’s those knee pads(I once used for volleyball) I offered to sell you to go along with your blue dress.
I’ve decided to sell them to the highest bidder.
What’s your offer?
those knee pads(I once used for volleyball)
Turn in your FRICKEN man card.
That is almost as bad as posting a quote from a chick flick.
Let’s not go down that road again…
In today’s That’s the Funniest Thing I’ve Ever Heard moment, the loser of March 27’s global warming debate, climate alarmist extraordinaire Joe Romm, has taken his defeat like a man: he’s officially banned from his Climate Progress website any articles by the victor, Marc Morano.
Attaboy, Joe!
Not only that, Romm actually made the banning official in a CP posting Tuesday (I’m not kidding): “Swift boat smearer Marc Morano, former denier-in-chief (DIC) for
Sen. James Inhofe (R-OIL),
hey, where have we seen this before…
is emailing around his bio and his new website to whatever members of the media are aching to tarnish their professional reputations. Marc Morano is unquotable and uncitable. For a journalist, quoting or citing him as a source is the Swiftist way to smear your own reputation. For anyone other than a
rightwing anti-scientific
this looks familiar too…
blogger, even linking to his new site ClimateDepot to debunk him gives him the attention and credibility he does not deserve.
I will not be linking to his website nor will I allow any links to his website to appear on this blog. It is conceivable that circumstances might arise where I refer to something Swift boat smearer Marc Morano has written, but I can’t imagine them right now.”
If I didn’t know who this guy was, and what he looked like, I’d swear he had to be in fifth grade behaving this way. But it gets better: “Yes, I did debate Swift Boat smearer Morano recently – but I was filling in at the last minute as a favor. As readers know, I believe such debates are pointless if not counterproductive, since we have known for 25 centuries that debates are not won on the facts but by who is a better debater, which is to say, who understands the principles of rhetoric. In particular, it is very hard to win a debate against someone who just repeatedly makes stuff up.”
Actually, that’s not true at all, Joe. The easiest people to debate are the ones that make stuff up because it’s quite simple to expose their fallacies. The reality is that on March 27, Romm continually stated that Morano was making stuff up, but didn’t explain to the audience what, and didn’t back up his assertions with demonstrable facts. Instead, Romm continued to repeat the same non sequitur, and never once explained why Morano was wrong.
Aren’t you a Ph.D. who claims to be an expert on this subject? Apparently not, for now Romm has picked up his ball and run home, and, in so doing has made climate alarmists the world over look like whining crybabies. Any questions as to why these folks refuse to debate? Of course, there’s likely another reason for Romm’s pathetic behavior: he knows the Obama administration has likely punted on cap-and-trade this year, and with the globe continuing to cool, the window of opportunity for these alarmists to tax carbon dioxide is quickly closing.
Somebody pass Romm a pacifier and his blanket.
#
SolDevVB
Posted April 30, 2009 at 12:31 pm | Permalink
those knee pads(I once used for volleyball)
Turn in your FRICKEN man card.
That is almost as bad as posting a quote from a chick flick.
Let’s not go down that road again…
________________
Sorry Sol, But every since I screwed up my knees playing football, it hurts like hell to dive for them saves.
Those knee pads came in handy when I laid over 1800 square feet of hardwood floors and ceramic tile in our house a few years ago.
By Retired NASA Scientist Dr. Leonard Weinstein who worked 35 years at the NASA Langley Research Center, finishing his career there as a Senior Research Scientist. Dr. Weinstein is presently a Senior Research Fellow at the National Institute of Aerospace.
Dr. Weinstein’s April 23, 2009 Excerpt: The final question that arises is what prediction has the AGW made that has been demonstrated, and that strongly supports the theory. It appears that there is NO real supporting evidence and much disagreeing evidence for the AGW theory as proposed. That is not to say there is no effect from Human activity. Clearly human pollution (not greenhouse gases) is a problem. There is also almost surely some contribution to the present temperature from the increase in CO2 and CH4, but it seems to be small and not a driver of future climate. Any reasonable scientific analysis must conclude the basic theory wrong!!
Football…laying flooring…
Aight, get your card back.
Hey!
I don’t think anybody typed this yet.
Oh, I wanna be the first!
Senator Arlen Specter D Penn.
Senator Arlen Specter D Penn.
=================
And you think that bothers us?
(points at BlueJay and laughs)
Senator Arlen Specter D(umbass) Penn.
Not important.
It’s like counting the number of times that somebody chews their food while eating a sandwich.
It’s still “eating a sandwich.”
_____________________________________
You only ate one sandwich, not 183 sandwiches.
“Virtually 8 straight weeks of VIRTUAL advances, Waaaaaa.”
It is not about the environment. Never was. It is all about the benjies.
‘Green’ Lobby Outnumbers Congress 4 to 1
Thursday, April 2, 2009 9:38 PM
By: Rick Pedraza
More than 770 companies and interest groups hired an estimated 2,340 lobbyists during the past year to influence climate legislation on Capitol Hill, a Center for Public Integrity report shows.
The huge hiring increase means climate lobbyists on K Street seeking to influence President Barack Obama’s administration to carve out of a piece of the $787-billion stimulus package for the clients they represent now outnumber lawmakers in the U.S.Congress by a margin of more than 4 to 1.
The ice in the Arctic is found to be 100% thicker than expected.
And here is the Arctic in the late 50’s…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/26/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-not-so-thick/
Hmmmmmm.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aJEEqW5QmJLg&refer=home
Where do we all get our information? Does it even matter?
BTW, CNN reports that the WHO will go to Level 6 in a couple of days…good luck.
Heckler
Posted April 30, 2009 at 12:07 pm | Permalink
Capn says- “BTW, Heckler,
Why do you justify torturing Christ?”
Sorry, you’ll have to explain that one to me.
******
“For what ever you do to these least of my brethern, you do to Me.” Matt 25
Jesus
Enron, Gore and cap-n-trade.
The intervening event? An August 4, 1997 Oval Office meeting with Kenny Boy, Sir John Browne (then of BP), and the president and vice president of the United States. Let that sink in. Al Gore says he didn’t know the guy. But anyone who can even spell “Beltway” can tell you that that kind of attention requires serious influence. Ask Gordon Brown.
As revealed by the August 1, 1997, Kenny Boy briefing memo that entered the public record after the Enron unpleasantness, in this meeting Kenny Boy was to demand that the Senate be ignored, that the administration agree to Kyoto, and — most important — that it contain a cap-and-trade scheme.
I know where “advice and consent” is in the Constitution. I’m not so sure where Ken Lay and Sir John Browne are, probably in the back with all of the scary stuff. Anyway, you know who won.
So, in tossing things back to Gore to finally answer the question, I leave you with key excerpts from the “what I did in Kyoto” memo by Lay’s Kyoto aide (yep, he had one), John Palmissano, hailing Enron’s success:
“This treaty [Kyoto] is exactly what I have been lobbying for.”
“This agreement will be good for Enron stock!!”
“Enron now has excellent credentials with many ‘green’ interests including Greenpeace, [World Wildlife Fund], [Natural Resources Defense Council], German Watch, the U.S. Climate Action Network, the European Climate Action Network, Ozone Action, WRI . . . ”
“This position should be increasingly cultivated and capitalized on (monitized) [sic].”
“if implemented, this agreement will do more to promote Enron’s business than will almost any other regulatory initiative outside of restructuring of the energy and natural gas industries in Europe and the United States.”
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the least of these?
#
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 8:25 am | Permalink
Maggotpunk,
It’s okay, outlander found a happy answer to my hateful question. . . he answered that he doesn’t know.
————-
Do you know, Cosmos of the Hyperlinks? If so, how do you know?
I’ll help you out. All you can answer is, this source thinks it is “this” old. I have faith in that source, although I don’t understand everything, so I agree. And then, OF COURSE, post the hyperlink.
Just like you do for the AGW stuff.
EX Senator Arlen Specter D Penn.
“Mr_Kia” pontificates –
“Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the least of these?”
Yeah, pretty much.
I
didn’tnow realize you’re a fan.Sol,
In some places the ice at the Arctic circle is still getting thicker.
April 30, 2009 weather report for
CAMBRIDGE BAY, NUNAVUT, CANADA
Weather report as of 10 minutes ago (18:00 UTC):
The wind was blowing at a speed of 11.3 meters per second (25.3 miles per hour), with gusts to 13.9 meters per second (31.1 miles per hour), from Northwest in Cambridge Bay, Canada. The temperature was -13 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit). Air pressure was 1,020 hPa (30.13 inHg). Relative humidity was 78.1%. There were overcast at a height of 579 meters (1900 feet). The visibility was 3.2 kilometers (2.0 miles). Current weather is Light Snow Moderate Blowing Snow .
April 30, 2009 weather report for
RESOLUTE, NUNAVUT, CANADA
Weather report as of 32 minutes ago (18:00 UTC):
The wind was blowing at a speed of 15.4 meters per second (34.5 miles per hour), with gusts to 18.5 meters per second (41.4 miles per hour), from North in Resolute, Canada. The temperature was -14 degrees Celsius (7 degrees Fahrenheit). Air pressure was 1,005 hPa (29.67 inHg). Relative humidity was 60.2%. The sky was clear. The visibility was 0.6 kilometers (0.4 miles). Current weather is Moderate Blowing Snow .
April 30, 2009 weather report for
THULE, GREENLAND
Weather report as of 10 minutes ago (18:19 UTC):
The wind was blowing at a speed of 14.4 meters per second (32.2 miles per hour), with gusts to 21.1 meters per second (47.2 miles per hour), from East/Southeast in Thule, Greenland. The temperature was -4 degrees Celsius (25 degrees Fahrenheit). Air pressure was 989 hPa (29.21 inHg). Relative humidity was 73.6%. There were overcast at a height of 4267 meters (14000 feet). The visibility was 8.0 kilometers (5.0 miles). Current weather is Light Snow.
April 30, 2009 weather report for
PEVEK, RUSSIA
Weather report as of 1111 minutes ago (00:00 UTC):
The wind was blowing at a speed of 11 meters per second (24.6 miles per hour) from South in Pevek, Russia. The temperature was -12 degrees Celsius (10 degrees Fahrenheit). Air pressure was 1,003 hPa (29.62 inHg). Relative humidity was 85.0%. There were scattered cumulonimbus clouds at a height of 610 meters (2000 feet) and scattered clouds at a height of 4572 meters (15000 feet). The visibility was 3.0 kilometers (1.9 miles). Current weather is Light Blowing Snow .
April 30, 2009 weather report for
TISKI, RUSSIA
Weather report as of 34 minutes ago (18:00 UTC):
The wind was blowing at a speed of 4 meters per second (8.9 miles per hour) from Southeast in Tiski, Russia. The temperature was -14 degrees Celsius (7 degrees Fahrenheit). Air pressure was 1,013 hPa (29.91 inHg). Relative humidity was 84.7%. There were overcast at a height of 488 meters (1600 feet). The visibility was 8.0 kilometers (5.0 miles). Current weather is Light Snow .
http://www.uni-koeln.de/math-nat-fak/geomet/meteo/winfos/synNNWWarctis.gif
Actually, Capn, it doesn’t say that. The quote is: “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.”
Christ is referring to positive actions that should have been done, rather than harmful actions taken.
An earlier passage also says: 37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
———-
“did for one of the least” So again stressing positive action.
“outlander” –
Your version is not KJV.
You’re obviously not a real christian.
Monkeyhawk
Posted April 30, 2009 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
“Mr_Kia” pontificates –
“Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the least of these?”
Yeah, pretty much.
I didn’t now realize you’re a fan.
————————————————–
Not I. But it sure sounds like you have sympathy for him.
Why would that be?
That pesky ice is growing???
What ever will cosmo do with her links now?
One of the criticisms of global warming predictions is that models cannot even reproduce climate for which we already have detailed records. So last spring, when climate scientists at the Leibniz Institute of Marine Science and the Max Planck Institute of Meteorology managed—finally—to use their supercomputer to recreate the climate of the past half-century, there was much anticipation of what their predictions would be for the next half. What they said was that global temperatures would continue to fall for at least another decade, perhaps longer.
When I wrote last year that this 20-year intermission in upward temperature trends bruised the credibility of global warming scientists and alarmist environmentalists, several of them wrote me to say they had never predicted steadily rising temperatures. No, no, they insisted, all along they had expected periods—even some long ones—in which temperatures would retreat before surging ahead again. So the currently cooling fit right in with what they had been predicting all along.
This, of course, was revisionist hogwash—if only because the 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) claimed there was no doubt that disastrous manmade warming was already upon us. The IPCC further predicted temperatures this decade would rise 0.3C and by similar amounts every decade through 2100.
I had been fully prepared for the alarmists to take credit for the cooling once it became undeniable. What I had not predicted was the hubris and intellectual dishonesty that permitted the warmers to insist they knew all along of facts contrary to their theories, but believed those facts reinforced, rather than undermined, the validity of their earlier claims.
Now, a similarly Orwellian doublethink is happening over Arctic sea ice. Since last fall, Arctic ice has been expanding faster than at any time since satellite records became available in 1979. The ice cap is now only a fraction smaller than in 1980—when it was at its largest.
Not only has this news not received much reporting, but the fact that ice sensors in the North have been malfunctioning, which has very likely led to a further underestimating of the amount of ice around the pole, has set off another we-never-claimed-it-was-an-emergency moment among greenies.
“1. Despite dire predictions about the impact of climate change on Australia’s iconic Great Barrier Reef, researchers have found that badly-damaged coral has managed to repair itself.
…
An unexpected discovery at the southern end of the reef has provided some rare good news for researchers. Researchers found that coral in the Keppel Islands off Queensland, which was damaged by bleaching in 2006 and then smothered by seaweed that overgrew the reef, has managed to repair itself.
”
WHOA, whoa whoa. I never get involved in these fruitless climate change debates, but you brought up coral reefs, my strong suit.
Please tell me why the bleaching occured in the first place, and then tell me why it had a chance to recover. It’s easy, it’s in the same article you posted.
And then tell me the relevance of that to the climate change debate.
‘What Scientists Have to Say About Global Cooling‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/what-science-has-say-about-global-cooling
I just post the news Tara. I remember something about seaweed overwhelming then retreating from the reef.
What does it have to do with the global warming alarmism? They love to point at the reefs and ice caps.
The ice caps are growing. Both of them.
Now this reef is healing. If you know why it healed, do tell.
Since Sol was too intellectually dishonest to post the article from which he cut and pasted that snippet:
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?ca158682-ed2d-471e-a7dc-6e02c90c1847
Please tell me why the bleaching occured in the first place, and then tell me why it had a chance to recover.
=======================
1. Corals, for a short time were really into Paris Hilton and wanted to mimic her.
2. Paris’s sex-tape was leaked, Corals no longer had respect for Paris.
Was that fly-over NYC (the other day) a form of “terrorism”?
Or just a silly faux pas?
Later in the week sceptics were struck by an admission from Professor William Schlesinger, a lead author for the IPCC. Since one of the enduring myths of our time is that the case for global warming is supported by “the world’s top 2,500 climate scientists” on the IPCC, Schlesinger was asked in a public debate how many of its contributors are in fact climate experts. The best he could come up with was that “something on the order of 20 per cent have had some dealing with climate”. (This will not of course stop the BBC calling any old evolutionary biologist or economist who supports its views a “leading climate scientist”).
Finally there was the strange case of the vanishing Arctic ice. Just how far Arctic sea-ice is melting or growing is one of the issues which arouses most passionate interest in the global-warming debate. Observers were therefore startled last week to see the US National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) showing a very dramatic drop in sea-ice cover, 500,000 square kilometres of ice suddenly disappearing in the depths of the Arctic winter. When this was queried by a puzzled Anthony Watts, the NSIDC somewhat shamefacedly admitted that a problem had developed with one of its satellites. The data for the previous 45 days was found to be so faulty that it had been withdrawn. But inevitably this provoked the question as to why quality control seemed to be so poor on one of the world’s leading official sources of climate data that it had taken an outside observer to point out that something was wrong.
This is by no means the first time that data on which the official case for global warming rests have had to be corrected, some of the more notorious instances involving temperature data supplied by Dr Hansen’s GISS. Yet this is one of the four official sources of temperature data on which the IPCC itself relies. When politicians plan measures to “combat climate change” costing tens of trillions of dollars, we can at least expect them to ensure that their figures are halfway believable
********************************************************
Isn’t cosmo the one that worships the IPCC and rails against anyone who opposes it?
Isn’t it comso that attacks the credentials of realists?
“20% have had some dealing with climate?”
OMG Becky !!!!
Since Sol was too intellectually dishonest to post the article from which he cut and pasted that snippet:
Sorry I didn’t post in time.
Mahalo. And take a chill pill.
I think my theory on the corals holds as much salt as AGW.
First, a little marine ecology 101:
Algae and coral are in a balance. An overgrowth of algae causes a decrease in the health of the reef. Since we’re at the bottom of the food chain here, this impacts animals all the way to the top of the food chain, resulting in an overall decrease in diversity.
Algal phase shifts are common: Overgrowth of algae does not always represent a dire problem, perhaps that that particular reef is always in a naturally algal-dominated state.
But this is not the case of the Barrier reef, which has long been coral dominated, resulting in the spectacular diversity which draws divers from all around the world.
Two factors cause unhealthy shifts of algae overgrowth: bottom up factors such as nutrient loading (caused by pollution), and top down factors such as overfishing.
The bounce back of the reef was caused by us intercepting, as demonstrated from the article,
“pollution now controlled by restrictions on fishing and controlling the runoff of soil and pesticides from farms on the mainland”
So basically if you posted this you agree that we need to take measures to restrict commercial activity for the sake of our environment, as this is the only way to undo the damage we have done. Am I hearing you correctly?
I was watching one of the channels, History, Discovery or whatever and they had an interesting show on Iceland. Evidently, in the 1790s, a volcanic process in Iceland erupted into very wide and very deep group of fissures. A sulfur dioxide cloud was the longest aerosol result.
The results?
North America had one of its first three winters on record; New Orleans had a blizzard; they were ice skating on the Thames river in London;famine was caused in Africa and other places.
Evidently, mother nature is quite capable of rapid climate change – it doesn’t need two century predictions of false science to huff and puff a very small amount of atmospheric, man-made co2, to make people cry wolf about climate disasters.
“Mahalo. And take a chill pill.”
Nothing gets me more worked up than a bunch of landlubbers who clearly 1) know nothing about our coral reefs 2) live too far away from to care, hollering about how the reefs are just fine and can fix themselves, there’s no problem, ignore all the data showing otherwise….
You have no idea how important a healthy reef is to coastal communities.
“pollution now controlled by restrictions on fishing and controlling the runoff of soil and pesticides from farms on the mainland”
So basically if you posted this you agree that we need to take measures to restrict commercial activity for the sake of our environment, as this is the only way to undo the damage we have done. Am I hearing you correctly?
Sure. I agree that CO2 is not the boogieman.
Tara,
I think I am going to have to see a slide show from some washed up politician before I buy into your ecological mambo-jambo.
I thought harbor dredging and shore erosion was known to snuff out coral as well. Excessive stirring up of silt, chokes off the nutrient supply as well as making the filtering of cloudy water less inhabitable.
Anti,
How about some reports written by a political body where “20% have had some dealing in climate?”
Would that help you believe?
Hey if the reefs are in trouble because of soil run off, pesticides and over fishing, I’m down with that. Clean it up. Restrict the fishing.
“Sure. I agree that CO2 is not the boogieman.”
Not in this case, no. The death of the reefs was caused by other man-made factors such as pollution runoff and overfishing.
I just wanted to make sure that you’re okay with reigning in capitalism if it will cause repair to our environment. Clearly you are, so we have no beef.
But if you want me to get my trusty JSTOR hat on and start posting evidence for anthropogenic C02 emissions causing acidification which harms our reefs, I’d be happy to do so. It might have to wait a few hours, though.
Hey if the reefs are in trouble because of soil run off, pesticides and over fishing, I’m down with that. Clean it up. Restrict the fishing.
———————————-
I can back that.
soldevvb posted April 30, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Isn’t cosmo the one that worships the IPCC and rails against anyone who opposes it?
Isn’t it comso that attacks the credentials of realists?
“20% have had some dealing with climate?”
OMG Becky !!!!
—————-
Is that 20% of only WG1?
Or 20% of all of WG1, WG2, WG3, and everyone else at IPCC?
And soldevvb, would you please total the number of scientists listed in the “References” at the end of each chapter here.
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
Is that 20% of only WG1?
I guess you’ll need to ask Professor William Schlesinger. He made the statement. Being that it was made in 2009, wouldn’t you think he was refering to the current body? Or does he have a problem with numbers too?
I’d be happy to do so
Knock yourself out.
While you’re at it, maybe you can answer a question cosmo hasn’t been able to for about 4 weeks:
What percentage of atmospheric COS is directly contributed by humans burning fossil fuel?
And soldevvb, would you please total the number of scientists listed in the “References” at the end of each chapter here.
Thank you for proving you do not understand how the IPCC reports are generated.
Out for the night. I’ll look for your posts tomorrow Tara.
Mahalo
Man, I hope this isn’t a hoax, because it is hilarious. Way to go “marching band girl” (probably a drum major).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30493653/?GT1=43001
One reason I question this story, most marching bands aren’t active in the Spring.
Also, the muggers have not yet been found.
Were you a drum major too Agnatha?
“What percentage of atmospheric COS is directly contributed by humans burning fossil fuel?”
Not a clue. I often scroll over global warming posts, so I have no idea what context your question is. But that seems like a silly question-How would you measure the exact number of PPM that’s caused by fossil fuels? How do you separate it from all the other stuff? It’s much more complex than you seem to indicate.
But I only comment in detail on evolution and marine biology. I like to know what I’m talking about before I open my mouth :D
Wahine_Tara posted April 30, 2009 at 4:11 pm
But that seems like a silly question-How would you measure the exact number of PPM that’s caused by fossil fuels?
—————-
It’s an easy question for soldevvb to answer — he just misquotes a falsehood made by an infamous fossil-energy shill. And then soldevvb insists that his misquote is a “fact”.
But reality is more complicated.
‘Chapter 7 Couplings Between Changes in the Climate System and Biogeochemistry‘
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
Fun letter to the editor this a.m.
“My deepest gratitude to the obviously senile bozo who said in the April 25 Opinion Line that if we voted for President Obama, we were communists. I haven’t had such a near-to-tears belly laugh in ages.”
Les Taylor
Wichita
–
Dennis
How would you measure the exact number of PPM that’s caused by fossil fuels?
_______________________________
That’s easy. You load a computer model with made up information and you get the answer you want.
Help Clean the Arkansas River
Date: April 30, 2009
Contact: Libby Albers, Environmental Specialist, Environmental Services
Volunteers needed as Riverfest nears
City of Wichita officials are seeking volunteers for the 8th Annual River Trash Round Up scheduled from 9 a.m. to noon on Saturday.
“This is a fun event that we can’t effectively do without volunteers,” said Libby Albers of Environmental Services. “We want the river clean for the opening day of the River Festival.”
This year, the River Trash Round Up is sponsored by the City of Wichita and Cargill with assistance from the Arkansas River Coalition. Cargill will provide participants with an event T-shirt and is inviting volunteers to a post-cleanup cookout at the check-in station, the southeast corner of Lawrence-Dumont Stadium parking where Maple and Mclean intersects.
The clean-up is also registered with American Rivers as part of the “National River Cleanup” initiative. Sponsors will provide gloves and trash bags for volunteers as well as a packer truck to collect debris. Previous clean-up events have recovered over a ton of trash from the river and its banks. Volunteers should wear clothing that can get dirty – preferably jeans and not shorts – and sturdy shoes. Canoeist and kayakers are welcome to bring their boats. Volunteers should meet in the southeast corner of the Lawrence-Dumont Stadium parking lot for check-in, gloves and bags. Water will also be provided.
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm
in the 1790s, a volcanic process in Iceland erupted into very wide and very deep group of fissures. A sulfur dioxide cloud was the longest aerosol result.
—————–
Fortunately, that process did not raise atmospheric GHG’s to levels higher than they’d been in about 800,000 years — like we humans have done.
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:22 pm | Permalink
Wahine_Tara posted April 30, 2009 at 4:11 pm
But that seems like a silly question-How would you measure the exact number of PPM that’s caused by fossil fuels?
—————-
It’s an easy question for soldevvb to answer — he just misquotes a falsehood made by an infamous fossil-energy shill. And then soldevvb insists that his misquote is a “fact”.
But reality is more complicated.
—————————————
BEE ESS!
I already posted from the Department of Energy, of what percentage of co2 is from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.
The ‘Warmers’ avoid answering this because they know it would make them look like the Alarmists they truly are.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:25 pm | Permalink
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm
in the 1790s, a volcanic process in Iceland erupted into very wide and very deep group of fissures. A sulfur dioxide cloud was the longest aerosol result.
—————–
Fortunately, that process did not raise atmospheric GHG’s to levels higher than they’d been in about 800,000 years — like we humans have done.
———————————
It shows how fast mother nature can change the climate. Three years of the worst winters in hundreds of years occurred because of the erupting fissures in Iceland.
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I already posted from the Department of Energy, of what percentage of co2 is from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.
——————
“from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.”??
Reality, and science is more rational.
‘Chapter 7 Couplings Between Changes in the Climate System and Biogeochemistry‘
at
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 4:30 pm
It shows how fast mother nature can change the climate. Three years of the worst winters in hundreds of years occurred because of the erupting fissures in Iceland.
—————
It was just a bigger version of cooling like caused by Mt. Pinatubo — which climate models accurately modeled.
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:36 pm | Permalink
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I already posted from the Department of Energy, of what percentage of co2 is from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.
——————
“from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.”??
Reality, and science is more rational.
————————————–
The figures at the Department of Energy were compiled by scientists from scientific data.
Try again bozo.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:41 pm | Permalink
Regular posted April 30, 2009 at 4:30 pm
It shows how fast mother nature can change the climate. Three years of the worst winters in hundreds of years occurred because of the erupting fissures in Iceland.
—————
It was just a bigger version of cooling like caused by Mt. Pinatubo — which climate models accurately modeled.
———————————
It was more than ‘just’.
It was a global disaster of frightening proportions and shows how powerful mother nature is over anything man made.
Do you talk to your house plants, Cosmos?
outlander–
You disappoint me. The one thing I expect from Biblical literalists is a thorough understanding of the Bible . . . but no.
Matt 25
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.
*****
BTW, here’s something that is not surprising these days:
April 30th, 2009
Churchgoers more likely to back torture, survey finds
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new analysis.
More than half of people who attend services at least once a week — 54 percent — said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is “often” or “sometimes” justified. Only 42 percent of people who “seldom or never” go to services agreed, according the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.
White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified — more than 6 in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only 4 in 10 of them did.
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/30/churchgoers-more-likely-to-back-torture-survey-finds/
The Capn was in an activity that torture was done on a routine basis.
Limbs were broken, choke holds were put in places, rips and tears of muscles, tendons and ligaments were common.
Pressure holds were placed on unwilling people to get them to submit.
collegiate wrestling – a terrorist sport
Regular,
“from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.”??
What fossil fuels are from man-produced co2?
———–
Regular: “and shows how powerful mother nature is over anything man made.”
————
Hello?
“Nature” is using anthropogenic GHG’s to cause AGW and climate change. AGW is triggering “natural” positive feedbacks.
“Nature” is using anthropogenic GHG’s to cause AGW and climate change. AGW is triggering “natural” positive feedbacks.
__________________________________
The PerfectScam.
I am not a crook
Read my lips, no new taxes
I did not have sex with that woman
________________________________________
FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape
By CALVIN WOODWARD – Associated Press Writer – 4/29/2009 4:50:00 PM
WASHINGTON – “That wasn’t me,” President Barack Obama said on his 100th day in office, disclaiming responsibility for the huge budget deficit waiting for him on Day One.
It actually was him _ and the other Democrats controlling Congress the previous two years _ who shaped a budget so out of balance.
And as a presidential candidate and president-elect, he backed the twilight Bush-era stimulus plan that made the deficit deeper, all before he took over and promoted spending plans that have made it much deeper still.
Churchgoers more likely to back torture, survey finds
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new analysis.
—————-
Capn this isn’t entirely true is it. We are a country who thinks it is ok to kill our children but not ok to torture terrorists. Something is wrong with that thought process.
The church people I know feel that the heart has gone out of a country who lets a baby be brutally murdered right up until the day of their birth but thinks it is wrong to put womens underwear on terrorists or worse yet put a bug in a box with them.
See the movie ‘Silent Scream’ and tell me about torture.
The Markets and Investors continue their love affair with Obama!
Stocks’ big April could be sign of healing economy
Wall Street’s big April advance could be another sign that the recession is starting to ease
Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
On Thursday April 30, 2009, 5:56 pm EDT
Buzz up! Print.NEW YORK (AP) — April was Wall Street’s best month in nine years — offering some of the most powerful evidence yet that maybe, just maybe, the economy is about to begin a turnaround.
The Standard & Poor’s 500 index, considered the most reliable measure of the broader market, climbed 9.4 percent in April, its best performance since March 2000, the peak of the dot-com bubble. The Dow Jones industrial average shot up 7.4 percent in April, on top of a 7.7 percent gain in March.
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
The Capn was in an activity that torture was done on a routine basis.
Limbs were broken, choke holds were put in places, rips and tears of muscles, tendons and ligaments were common.
Pressure holds were placed on unwilling people to get them to submit.
collegiate wrestling – a terrorist sport
—————-
Now Reg I have to take exception with this. I have a grandson who wrestled D1 Collegiate wrestiling and was a two time All American. There is a beauty to the sport.:-)
Don’t remember many broken bones or maimed bodies.
CapnAmerica
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:50 pm
“More than half of people who attend services at least once a week — 54 percent — said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is “often” or “sometimes” justified. Only 42 percent of people who “seldom or never” go to services agreed, according the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.”
___________________________________________________________-
All that means is that 54% of the people surveyed that are regular churchgoers favored torture and 42% of non-churchgoers surveyed agreed. Wonder how many people from each group were surveyed? Percentages really mean very little and the outcome is completely dependant on the sample group size and can be skewed to support the desired outcome of the surveyor.
BTW – What about that Shiekh Issa? At least that thief didn’t lose his hands.
Wasn’t commenting on torture, Capn, only your misuse of the Word.
Surely you can find something on point.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
Regular,
“from fossil fuels from man-produced co2.”??
What fossil fuels are from man-produced co2?
———–
Regular: “and shows how powerful mother nature is over anything man made.”
————
Hello?
“Nature” is using anthropogenic GHG’s to cause AGW and climate change. AGW is triggering “natural” positive feedbacks.
—————————-
So your saying (since these comments are derived from the Iceland Volcanic activity) that GHG’s caused AGW and climate change to occur in the 1790s.
(AGW – when in the 1790s they had some of the coldest weather on record from the SO2 of the Iceland volcanic fissure eruprtions)
cosmos is a loon.
What does this administration have against the transportation industry. Though Bozo Biden backpeddled and said that he mis-spoke, the word was already out there.
The auto and aviation industries don’t need this kind of help.
It’s good to see federal agencies once again doing their duties.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090430/bs_nm/us_sec_enforcement_pensionfund;_ylt=AsxLD.d4n3zUUIWCEQ07BVm573QA
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
The Capn was in an activity that torture was done on a routine basis.
Limbs were broken, choke holds were put in places, rips and tears of muscles, tendons and ligaments were common.
Pressure holds were placed on unwilling people to get them to submit.
collegiate wrestling – a terrorist sport
===========================================
Unwilling??? In a wrestling match?? hardly!!
Maybe in Hockey, or Football… What you call “terrorist” in Wrestling, is known as strategy… BOTH wrestlers are looking for the right opportunity to put the right hold on their opponent, to force what you call “submission” — You want to give the prisoners an equal opportunity??
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 5:31 pm | Permalink
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
The Capn was in an activity that torture was done on a routine basis.
Limbs were broken, choke holds were put in places, rips and tears of muscles, tendons and ligaments were common.
Pressure holds were placed on unwilling people to get them to submit.
collegiate wrestling – a terrorist sport
===========================================
Unwilling??? In a wrestling match?? hardly!!
Maybe in Hockey, or Football… What you call “terrorist” in Wrestling, is known as strategy… BOTH wrestlers are looking for the right opportunity to put the right hold on their opponent, to force what you call “submission” — You want to give the prisoners an equal opportunity??
————————————-
So your saying your willing to be placed in a full nelson until you pass out?
Can the accused being tortured tap out?
Full Nelson is an illegal hold in HS or collegiate wrestling… has been for YEARS now… Care to try again??
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 5:36 pm | Permalink
Full Nelson is an illegal hold in HS or collegiate wrestling… has been for YEARS now… Care to try again??
———————————–
Okay, how about pulling your arm behind your back until it breaks, putting my knee in your back and putting my full weight on you (not my fault if your arm snaps).
Idiot… That TOO is an illegal hold/maneuver in collegiate wrestling… But, do keep trying… Looks like you dont know a whole lot about collegiate wrestling….
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 5:41 pm | Permalink
Idiot… That TOO is an illegal hold/maneuver in collegiate wrestling… But, do keep trying… Looks like you dont know a whole lot about collegiate wrestling….
————————
How is it illegal?
Are you saying people never get injured while performing in college wrestling?
Try googling KSHSAA — wrestling – rules… That might help you with describing more illegal holds…
OR, you can google NCAA — wrestling – rules… and find about the same things
From The Sunday Times
April 26, 2009
Beware surfers: cyberspace is filling up
John Harlow
Internet users face regular “brownouts” that will freeze their computers as capacity runs out in cyberspace, according to research to be published later this year.
Experts predict that consumer demand, already growing at 60 per cent a year, will start to exceed supply from as early as next year because of more people working online and the soaring popularity of bandwidth-hungry websites such as YouTube and services such as the BBC’s iPlayer.
It will initially lead to computers being disrupted and going offline for several minutes at a time. From 2012, however, PCs and laptops are likely to operate at a much reduced speed, rendering the internet an “unreliable toy”.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6169488.ece
Fatalities
Wrestling – 2.26 per 100,000
Football – 0.56 per 100,000
No, I wouldnt say NEVER on injuries… But, I would say RARE during competition…. Injuries tend to occur more during training…
Illegal, because pressure holds such as what you describe, are ILLEGAL holds…
Ummm I could make up numbers too… Got some sort of accurate link??
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 5:48 pm | Permalink
Ummm I could make up numbers too… Got some sort of accurate link??
——————
Google it, like you tell everyone else.
It’s what I did.
I’m calling BS on your fatalities allegation…
I gave you google to look up the rules that you dont even know about… I KNOW those rules answers… If you expect anybody to believe your fatality allegations, PROVE it… I’m not arguing with you about something I already know… So, flame on dude… it’s what you do best!! LOL
So now we’re learning about CONs’ love for pro wrestling.
They think it’s real.
They think that stuff is real.
Except it isn’t, you know.
CONs associate the “Helicopter Top-o-the-Ropes Pile Driver Dive” is real.
And CIA use it to give us Osama bin Laden’s zip code.
If only they could.
Damned SOCIALISTS!!!! (All caps, Italics, four bangs: It’s the Law.)
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 5:53 pm | Permalink
I’m calling BS on your fatalities allegation…
—————————–
So Chas,
How many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling?
If you are going to deflect away from your original post, I’m not discussing it with you… got that?? ID 10 T
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:00 pm | Permalink
If you are going to deflect away from your original post, I’m not discussing it with you… got that?? ID 10 T
——————
I’m not deflecting, you are.
I said that college wrestling is a terrorist activity as it causes injury and death.
Regular Posted April 30, 2009 at 4:56 pm
The Capn was in an activity that torture was done on a routine basis.
Limbs were broken, choke holds were put in places, rips and tears of muscles, tendons and ligaments were common.
Pressure holds were placed on unwilling people to get them to submit.
collegiate wrestling – a terrorist sport
So Chas,
How many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling?
that is the stupidist post I have read in a while
your cable out or something so you are posting b.s. to get people going?
seriously grow up.
try reading about how to present a logical arguement:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
So brian,
How many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling?
Regular,
Why the F should I care how many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling? They have nothing to do with one another.
At least 27 detainees died in custody of US forces, either under torture or outright murdered. Some service men have been tried and convicted.
College wrestlers play by choice and can leave anytime they want. Injuries and deaths are accidents, not planned by White House staffers.
Jesus was tortured by the Romans. Justifiable? A good thing?
#
brian_nuevo
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:12 pm | Permalink
Regular,
Why the F should I care how many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling? They have nothing to do with one another.
——————————-
So you are saying that collegiate sponsored sports that are known to cause death and physical injury should go on ending young human life without due process?
Further, you don’t care if young people trying to fit into a society are misled by their coaches that there is a chance to die or be severely injured.
You know, for the sake of the old college spirit, they must sacrifice life and limb.
Torture still continues in Iraqi prisons, and we are not in a very good position to object.
Has Hannity announced when he will undergo the waterboarding he said he was willing to do for charitable donations for troops?
Discussion over Regular. We are weary of your ignorance on this.
#
brian_nuevo
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:20 pm | Permalink
Discussion over Regular. We are weary of your ignorance on this.
———————
So Brian, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
“Football contributed the greatest numbers of catastrophic injuries but also had the largest number of participants. Ice hockey, gymnastics, and wrestling are the other sports where participants are at greatest risk of catastrophic injury or death.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2287249?log$=activity
http://www.flayme.com/troll/
This rings so true…
#
brian_nuevo
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:27 pm | Permalink
http://www.flayme.com/troll/
This rings so true…
————————-
brian is incapable of directly answering a simple question.
————————-
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:21 pm | Permalink
#
brian_nuevo
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:20 pm | Permalink
Discussion over Regular. We are weary of your ignorance on this.
———————___________________________________________
So Brian, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
So Chassss, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
Yes, wrestling is a very poor anology. What’s next, driving a car resulted in more injury and deaths than waterboarding.
So Phantom/Beber, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
Phantom does this sound familiar:
” the troll may use a variety of techniques, from sheer twaddle to mild insults, from a controversial view to completely irrelevant questions. Anything to get a response.”
http://www.flayme.com/troll/angler.shtml
Try not to feed the trolls :)
So brian_nuevo, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
OMG — it’s a meltdown!!
#
Chas
Posted April 30, 2009 at 7:32 pm | Permalink
OMG — it’s a meltdown!!
===========================================
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:38 pm | Permalink
So, Chassasss, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
So much for free speech in Israel…
“Israel warned the European Union on Thursday to tone down its criticism of the new Israeli government”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090430/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_eu;_ylt=AtjGs556io5l_TvHgcvHtW7Zn414
#
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 6:38 pm | Permalink
So brian_nuevo, how many of the three that were water boarded, died or had permanent injuries?
_____________________________
At least 850.
Mindless twit.
If a troll is ‘renditioned’ to Egypt and waterboarded is it torture?
Regular wrote:
Fatalities
Wrestling – 2.26 per 100,000
Football – 0.56 per 100,000
———————————————-
So Chas,
How many injuries and deaths were caused by water boarding as compared to collegiate wrestling?
=================================================
Regular,
This is where I have to call Bee Ess on the statistic you quote regarding collegiate wrestling “fatalities” without posting a supporting link.
The 2.26 per 100,000 refers to indirect injury not fatality.
Quote:
“The indirect injury rate for wrestling was 2.26 per 100,000 participants”
Source:
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~jpiliavi/647/injuries.pdf
See page 9.
Thanks Daniel!!
Actually, that’s not where I got my data.
My data was from 1982. :)
oops, and was presented in tabular form.
“Football contributed the greatest numbers of catastrophic injuries but also had the largest number of participants. Ice hockey, gymnastics, and wrestling are the other sports where participants are at greatest risk of catastrophic injury or death.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2287249?log$=activity
__________________________________________
Also presented with much tabular information.
Chas you do understand the numbers given were per 100,000; therefore, it makes no difference which had the largest number of participants.
For the three water boarders, held by the U.S., there were 0 deaths per 100,000 statistically speaking. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPer2c9jSck&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfowars%2Ecom%2Ffox%2Dnews%2Dmartial%2Dlaw%2Dif%2Dit%25e2%2580%2599s%2Da%2Dpandemic%2F&feature=player_embedded
Let it sink in…
Hud, tell that to your dimwit buddy Regular… HE is the one making all the fuss over numbers…. Why dont you just tell him he is wrong in his wrestling/terrorist analogy, and just leaveit at that… After all, that is the original stupid argument…
Nite nite now… You all have fun in your mental midget CONfab….
outlander
Posted April 30, 2009 at 2:03 pm | Permalink
Actually, Capn, it doesn’t say that. The quote is: “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.”
Christ is referring to positive actions that should have been done, rather than harmful actions taken.
What a joke — you weren’t there at the beginning of creation yet you quote from a book of fiction as if you WERE there —–
“Why dont you just tell him he is wrong in his wrestling/terrorist analogy, and just leaveit at that…”
Sorry Chas, I cannot do that. I know very little about football and even less about wrestling. Now numbers I understand and you are misusing them.
Then as predictable — Regular (like most idiot neocons on this board) he tries to refute an item by bringing up the totally inanae and ridiculous. On another relevent note —- he doesn’t know it — but over the last year he and I have exchanged pleasantries several times — base gym, hospital and even once at Olive Garden (were did you steal that Coast Guard t shirt) and even when he is trying to be pleasantly conversational — he’s an idiot — can’t put 2 coherent sentences back to back — just like on here ….
Actually Chas, I’m not abusing any numbers.
I merely pointed out that collegiate wrestling, a violent sport, is tremendously more likely than water boarding to cause death or serious injury.
Indie
Posted April 30, 2009 at 9:39 pm | Permalink
Then as predictable — Regular (like most idiot neocons on this board) he tries to refute an item by bringing up the totally inanae and ridiculous. On another relevent note —- he doesn’t know it — but over the last year he and I have exchanged pleasantries several times — base gym, hospital and even once at Olive Garden (were did you steal that Coast Guard t shirt) and even when he is trying to be pleasantly conversational — he’s an idiot — can’t put 2 coherent sentences back to back — just like on here …
——————————–
???
I don’t go to the Base Gym or to Olive Garden. I do, on occasion go to McConnel Clinic – they have no hospital at the AFB.
I never owned a Coast Guard T-Shirt in my entire life. You have me confused with someone else.
Regular
Posted April 30, 2009 at 9:44 pm | Permalink
Actually Chas, I’m not abusing any numbers.
I merely pointed out that collegiate wrestling, a violent sport, is tremendously more likely than water boarding to cause death or serious injury.
….. and is totally irrelevent to any discussion about waterboarding or torture and it’s use —
it’s what he does
… and a liar
Posted on another thread, so sorry, but also so true it need to be seen here also.
I voted Democrat because I love the fact that I can now marry whatever I want. I’ve decided to marry my horse or dog or whatever.
I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.
I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.
I voted Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.
I voted Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq I trust that the bad guys will stop what they’re doing because they now think we’re good people.
I voted Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.
I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don’t start driving a Prius.
I voted Democrat because I’m not concerned about the slaughter of millions of babies so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.
I voted Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government or redistribution as IT sees fit.
I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite The Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.
I voted Democrat because my head is so firmly planted up my ass that it is unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.
OBAMA LIES AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama Breaks Campaign Promise to Immediately Sign Abortion Bill
“The Freedom of Choice Act is not my highest legislative priority,” Obama said. “The most important thing we can do is to tamp down some of the anger surrounding the issue to focus on those areas we can agree on.”
That was a sharp departure from his comments at an address before Planned Parenthood in the summer of 2007.
“The first thing I will do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act,” he said at the time.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/30/obama-breaks-campaign-promise-immediately-sign-abortion/
OBAMA
THE
LIAR
You are SO full of it Bawks, I know you can’t be stupid enough to believe…well..then again…
JimJohnson,
Has a bill been passed through both houses of Congress for Obama to sign?
Check this out…..I think it might clear up your confusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlka6fTnDnI&feature=related
Daniel
Posted April 30, 2009 at 10:54 pm | Permalink
JimJohnson,
Has a bill been passed through both houses of Congress for Obama to sign?
Check this out…..I think it might clear up your confusion.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What? You mean the Democrat Congress hasn’t passed this bill yet?
Why didn’t Obama push for it?
HE JUST LIED!
Man Reg, you have the libs blubbering over the wrestling/ waterboarding comparison. Well played.
What? You mean the Democrat Congress hasn’t passed this bill yet?
Why didn’t Obama push for it?
================================================
No, they haven’t. Try to keep up.
Did you read your own link? He said it wasn’t his highest legislative priority.
Do you think that it is possible that his legislative priorities might have shifted in the 18 months that have passed since he made that speech to Planned Parenthood?
No bill to sign = no lie.
TAX CUT? WHERE’S MY TAX CUT?
INSIDE WASHINGTON: Taxpayers to get rude surprise
INSIDE WASHINGTON: Millions of couples, retirees may have to repay some of Obama tax credit
Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer
On Thursday April 30, 2009, 6:55 pm EDT
(AP) — Millions of Americans enjoying their small windfall from President Barack Obama’s “Making Work Pay” tax credit are in for an unpleasant surprise next spring.
The government is going to want some of that money back.
The tax credit is supposed to provide up to $400 to individuals and $800 to married couples as part of the massive economic recovery package enacted in February. Most workers started receiving the credit through small increases in their paychecks in the past month.
But new tax withholding tables issued by the IRS could cause millions of taxpayers to get hundreds of dollars more than they are entitled to under the credit, money that will have to be repaid at tax time.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/INSIDE-WASHINGTON-Rude-apf-15091434.html?.v=1
With Justice Souter retiring now, Obama will have the chance to appoint a pro-2nd Amendment Justice.
Obama said he supported the 2nd Amendment.
Will Obama lie again?
(You can count on it!)
“You are SO full of it Bawks, I know you can’t be stupid enough to believe…well..then again…”—P_mama
Ha, ha, ha!!!
Chas is now a wrestling expert?
LOL!
bigotbawks posted April 30, 2009 at 11:17 pm
“You are SO full of it Bawks, I know you can’t be stupid enough to believe…well..then again…”—P_mama
Ha, ha, ha!!!
——————–
Yes, bigotbawks is definitely a pathetic joke.
HERE they are.
For a thousand dollars a day, they were bought to be inhuman.
These monsters must be made infamous.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7471217&page=1
Bruce Jessen and Jim Mitchell, former military officers, together founded Mitchell Jessen and Associates.
Retired military that never quite fit in the civilian world?
GOOD on ABC revealing these….things.
Their names and acts are a stain on America.
“Yes, bigotbawks is definitely a pathetic joke.”—comatose
And comatose is an ignorant lemming running off a cliff or another chicken little.
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