From picking Rick Warren to give the inaugural invocation to sticking with Defense Secretary Robert Gates to proposing $300 billion in business tax breaks as part of the stimulus package, Barack Obama’s decisions are making liberals queasy. Plus, according to the New York Times, the economy-focused Obama camp may want to defer campaign promises such as a renegotiated NAFTA, immigration reform, carbon regulation, a rollback of the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy, and allowing gays to serve openly in the military.
U.S. News & World Report blogger James Pethokoukis says the far left’s “angst and agita are can’t-miss signs of a little understood liberal malady, Clinton Derangement Syndrome: the crippling fear that the progressive president you just elected to launch a pricey new New Deal and nationalize health care will, once in office, morph into a budget-balancing, tax-cutting, free trade-loving disappointment.”
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221 Comments
I hope Obama remembers this nation is already in debt some nine trillion dollars, a large percentage to China. This is not just on paper … the U.S. government makes humongous annual payments of interest on this debt to China.
I have always said there is no incentive to Presidents to discontinue charging to the National Debt. Very little more to Congress which also seems to have a propensity to increase, not reduce, the National Debt.
The mantra is always, “It will be up to the next President and Congress to stop the bleeding.”
JWink, you are right. But Obama now has an opportunity to give a whole new meaning to the phrase that Truman put on the president’s desk: “The Buck Stops Here!”
I’m not worried at all. Any decision he makes will be with the best interests of the country in mind, not his friends or those to whom he owes political favors.
I wish that the doom and gloomers would save their negativity and pessimistic attitudes until he is at least sworn in. Let’s give him a chance before we declare him a failure.
“…the crippling fear that the progressive president you just elected to launch a pricey new New Deal and nationalize health care will, once in office, morph into a budget-balancing, tax-cutting, free trade-loving disappointment.”
Disappointment? Yeah kinda.
Except I already predicted it.
Well, why don’t you wait until it happens before you declare that you were right?
God, how the naysayers drive me nuts.
“the economy-focused Obama camp may want to defer campaign promises such as a renegotiated NAFTA, immigration reform, carbon regulation, a rollback of the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy, and allowing gays to serve openly in the military.”
Well hell what’s left? Oh yeah. “Yes we can”.
And probably, yeah, he will.
“the economy-focused Obama camp “may want” to defer campaign promises such as a renegotiated NAFTA, immigration reform, carbon regulation, a rollback of the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy, and allowing gays to serve openly in the military.”
Someone’s opinion doesn’t make it so.
The reality of it is there is no way Obama can deliver on everything..the economy will not be condusive to it. But at least we have someone with a brain in the White House who isn’t going to be as swayed by the big oil companies, lobbyists, and political paybacks.
It’s refreshing to have someone at the helm who has good character and can actually think.
If Obama really wants to stimulate the economy he needs to get serious and use the nuclear option, despite the fact that it would drive the left fringe right over the edge.
The Mother of all tax breaks.
NO ONE pays ANY income tax for one year.
Think about it. Rather then spend a bunch of money we don’t have, give everyone a 100% tax break for one year. The effect on the bottom line of the budget really is the same whether you spend money you don’t have or you don’t take any money in. It’s a wash.
Economic benefits? Yeah.
Those who spend the extra cash stimulate economic activity.
Those who pay down debt put cash into the banking system that is available to extend credit to businesses and other individuals.
You also prevent a lot of mortgage defaults and bankruptcies.
Heh. Sorry I am reminded of an old MadTV bit that probably nobody has seen.
BlueJay sings…
Lowered expectations
…but that just to damn logical.
Uh huh heckler. Until the bills have to be paid.
THEN you go for stage II: a “fair” tax on consumption.
Where the poor pay the same tax on a loaf of bread as the super rich and everyone else?
And in that final, fell swoop, the weight of the whole country and all of its expenses is placed firmly on the backs of those who can afford it least.
Then comes StageIII.
May we never get to Stage I.
Lowered expectations?
I see it as a new beginning for our country. When we’re down so low, the only way to go is up.
Off to work…have a good one.
BJ
“Uh huh heckler. Until the bills have to be paid.”
Hey I don’t like seeing all these damn bail outs any more than the next guy.
But if you are going to do something(i.e. spend a bunch of money you don’t have)do something that will actually zap the economy in the ahrse.
Sorry heckler, no sale.
Heckler is talking about a little scheme hatched by a southern congressman ( whose name escapes me at the moment) in collusion with talk radio.
He will only take it out of the box a piece at a time. Let me lay out the whole thing.
Use the rest of the bailout money for their year long income and FICA tax holiday.
WhooEEEE that sounds nice! Stay with me.
After that year, let the taxes to back in place. Ya say ya want a revolution? The bet is that people will be SO outraged that they will then vote to abolish the income tax.
But of course, the bills have to be paid.
SO, we get the consumption tax I mentioned. They call it a “fair” tax.
Stage III they don’t talk about so much. MY guess is that with the weight disproportionately on the backs of the poor, they then start the easy rationalization for the nearly complete elimination of government programs and expenditures.
Tax holiday and “fair” tax? DON’T you believe it!
What’s this? An acknowledgement by democrats leaders that all those things cost money and will hurt the economy?
How can that be?
Let’s change the change.
Let us be a little conservative in our change.
“Any decision he makes will be with the best interests of the country in mind, not his friends or those to whom he owes political favors.”
Geee, no one said THAT when Obama picked an anti-gay to pray at the swearing in.
B.J.
“SO, we get the consumption tax I mentioned. They call it a “fair” tax. ”
The Fair Tax has nothing to do with it.
BUT since you brought it up, why don’t you go out and actually learn a little about the Fair Tax befor you go criticising it. You obviously know nothing about it.
“with the weight disproportionately on the backs of the poor,”
How do you get there JR? The “poor” (depending on how you define them) pay ZERO under the Fair Tax plan. Get a clue.
“Economic benefits? Yeah.
Those who spend the extra cash stimulate economic activity.
Those who pay down debt put cash into the banking system that is available to extend credit to businesses and other individuals.
You also prevent a lot of mortgage defaults and bankruptcies.”
Radical idea: Lower taxes/no taxes/taxes are too high.
Certainly a republican idea.
Certainly not change.
“BlueJay
Posted January 14, 2009 at 7:31 am | Permalink
Sorry heckler, no sale.
But of course, the bills have to be paid.”
Speaking of bills having to be paid, how’s your healthcare bills for you and your son getting paid?
I really don’t think people who are on the RECEIVING end of a handout, have any right to tell me how to give of my money.
Maybe you have a right in a free country. But it certainly looks uncomely.
Beggars: A hand stretched out full of nothing with a mouth full of “gimmee”.
No of course the “fair” tax is not a part of the tax holiday scheme you’re peddling.
Which explains why you are defending it. Uh huh.
The “fair” tax would supposedly replace the income tax. It would be a 23 cents on the dollar embedded tax on everything from a gumball to a Gulfstream jet.
Fair huh. Except the cost of a loaf of bread is a little bit different for Joe Sixpack than it is for Donald Trump.
There is a real danger Obama could fall for such crap. He’s never worked a day in his life and came by his money easy. I sure hope he doesn’t take his lottery life as an example he thinks everyone can live. He needs to remember where he came from.
I don’t go to the doctor American way. I can’t afford it. My son has been to a dentist who volunteers to be part of the Healthwave plan once.
BJ
“Fair huh. Except the cost of a loaf of bread is a little bit different for Joe Sixpack than it is for Donald Trump. ”
Like I said, you don’t have a clue.
Go study up. “The Poor” pay ZERO under the Fair Tax. Not even payroll taxes.(because payroll taxes go away.)
“He’s never worked a day in his life and came by his money easy.”
“He needs to remember where he came from.”
So which is it?
Why would liberals be worried?? And as for the fair tax… the best reason to be against it, is because Boortz and some Southern fear mongering congressman are for it..
“BlueJay
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:03 am | Permalink
I don’t go to the doctor American way. I can’t afford it. My son has been to a dentist who volunteers to be part of the Healthwave plan once.”
So who are you to be advising the federal government they should be spending money THEY don’t even have?!?
The only place the Feds can get money is to place a heavier tax burden on ALL OF US still paying taxes.
You pay nothing in federal income taxes – you can have no logic for demanding more from those of us who do.
In the words of a friend of mine who succumbed to Alzheimer’s disease:
“Don’t worry, cause nothin’s gonna be alright”
“Where the poor pay the same tax on a loaf of bread as the super rich and everyone else?”
Sorry Bluejay, but not all states tax food. 31 states have no sales tax on food. Other states have lower sales tax rates on food. Some states, like KANSAS, provide you a tax credit/rebate for the tax you pay on food, particularly for the poor.
Not sure on the agricultural grain subsidy, but I’ll bet those of us who are paying taxes are also seeing our dollars go to wheat farmers to ensure you have bread on your table.
‘You pay nothing in federal income taxes ”
If you know how to pull that trick I wish you’d teach me.
Kid’s out the door and so am I.
And so is Obama in four years if he doesn’t remember who brought him to the dance.
The liberals won’t be happy until we have a totalitarian Socialist state like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.
“It’s refreshing to have someone at the helm who has good character and can actually think.”—Mary
Yeah right, more ‘All Feel Good but NO Substance’!
“‘You pay nothing in federal income taxes ”
If you know how to pull that trick I wish you’d teach me.”
So Bluejay, you do pay federal taxes and do not get a refund of the entire amount? No EIC payments for you in excess of payments in?
donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:53 am | Permalink
The liberals won’t be happy until we have a totalitarian Socialist state like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.
===========================================
Make up your mind… do you want a Soviet Russia, or a Nazi Germany?? You might remember it was those Soviets who helped the Allies bring down Nazi Germany…
And how can you say it is the liberals who want such a totalitarian State, when it is the Reich Wingers who want to dictate to everybody how to live their lives, have sex, and babies, and dictate ‘religious’ propaganda to be taught in the schools???
So, who is it that wants totalitarian rule??
“Where the poor pay the same tax on a loaf of bread as the super rich and everyone else?”—BlowJ
Blow, you are such a dumb xxx. The fair tax would give back a check equal in covering basic necessities like food, etc.
The poor would probably come out ahead, but then you don’t really read and think, you just spout your Marxist agenda.
So, the poor wont pay the 23% tax on all purchases like everybody else with a “fair” tax?? And what agency will keep track of all that paperwork??
Why not just pass legislation in Congress that eliminates ssales tax on food for all states?? Maybe that would be do-able…
Beggars: A hand stretched out full of nothing with a mouth full of “gimmee”.—Am-Way
That’s the perfect picture of BlowJ.
“that with the weight disproportionately on the backs of the poor, they then start the easy rationalization for the nearly complete elimination of government programs and expenditures. BLUEJAY”
“Everybody’s going to have to give. Everybody’s going to have to have some skin in the game,” Obama said.
everybody includes the poor
Does anyone have the latest updates from Dictionary.com?
Have they changed the definition of, “everybody?
““Everybody’s going to have to give. Everybody’s going to have to have some skin in the game,” Obama said.”
Dick Liquor, Obama spokesman, has clarified the President-elects comments. “Obama says a lot of things. This was one of them”.
Clear as mud fleettwood.
Everybody is going to get f**cked.
donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:53 am | Permalink
The liberals won’t be happy until we have a totalitarian Socialist state like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.
–
The conservatives loved their socialism as long as the taxpayer money flowed their way. The Conservatives have been the ones in power for the last 8 years and in case you have not noticed, the country is in bad shape economically and with our moral standing around the world.
I am glad to see Obama has a backbone and is not so willing to give any one group all the power. Maybe Obama really believes the Constitution where it says that each citizen has the same rights – not just those with the power at the time?
“and with our moral standing around the world.”
Why would you say that? How do you know that?
Obama isn’t even in office and some you are hopping around on one foot and wetting yourselves!
I’m going to be sure to purchase stock for the company that produces Depends. You guys are going to make me more money on that stock than the XOM I own.
Thanks for the entertainment!
“The conservatives loved their socialism ”
Don’t confuse conservatives with Republicans.
It happens commonly around here.
Bluejay, you need to get a life. It took Bush and the pathetic Republicans 8 Years to create this mess and your expect Obama to fix it in 4, like I said before “get a life”. It takes a longer time to repair something then to run it down and Bush sure did a good job of that in 8 years.
“Obama isn’t even in office and some you are hopping around on one foot and wetting yourselves!”
“Barack Obama’s decisions are making liberals queasy.”
Methinks you have it backward.
Oh, you mean like CONS confuse liberals with socialists and communists and marxists??
“Any decision he makes will be with the best interests of the country in mind, not his friends or those to whom he owes political favors.”
“But at least we have someone with a brain in the White House who isn’t going to be as swayed by the big oil companies, lobbyists, and political paybacks.”
- Mary Caruso
Mary, please tell me you are not that incredibly naive. He’s a politician; nothing more, nothing less.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Gov’t never changes.
“and with our moral standing around the world” . . . .
=======================
BIG FRIGGIN DEAL .. such is the left-wing “bumper-sticker” mentality .. the “rest-of-the-world” is jealous of America .. Notice that the question is never: what do Americans think about the “rest-of-the-world” .. I’m sure the “rest-of-the-world” couldn’t give a rats ass about what we think of them .. Just as I don’t give a rats ass about what “they” think of US .. as far as I am concerned .. if the “rest-of-the-world” didn’t exist .. America would be just fine . . . . . . God bless America
“Oh, you mean like CONS confuse liberals with socialists and communists and marxists??”
No confusion at all, Chas. Just stating the facts you seek to ignore or hide. That is the trendpath you choose; it is the logical conclusion.
Have you met Obama’s pick for “global warming czar?”
Until last week, Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama’s pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group’s Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for “global governance” and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/
Why do you try to hide it? Her page on the socialist international has been conveniently “wiped” (those who know enought history to recognize Stalin’s habit of making his enemies “non-persons” will find this familiar).
This is the old one:
http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=1779&Search=carol%20browner
You won’t find it now, post-appointment. Coincidence?
Besides, Chas, the new buzz word is “progressive,” not “liberal.” Kinda like the emperor’s new clothes, methinks.
Were you guys always this naive?
“Were you guys always this naive?”
Yes.
I heartily agree with Mary that we need to distinguish between third-party speculation, and Team Obama’s actual words and actions, and not automatically presume things we don’t know, or assume he will do things he hasn’t yet done.
But Glenn Greenwald notes several instances wherein public outcty modified the direction Obama was going, and offers an important caveat:
If those who want fundamental reform in these areas adopt the view that they will not criticize Barack Obama because to do so is to “help Republicans,” or because he deserves more time, or because criticisms are unnecessary because we can trust in him to do the right thing, or because criticizing him is to “tear him down” or “create a circular firing squad” or “be a Naderite purist” or any of those other empty platitudes, then they are ceding the field to the very powerful factions who are going to fight vehemently against any changes. Do you think that those who want the CIA to retain “robust” interrogation powers and who want the federal surveillance state maintained, or want a hard-line towards Iran and a continuation of our Middle East policies, or who want to maintain corporate-lobbyist-domination of Washington, are sitting back saying: “it’s not right to pressure Obama too much right now; give him some time”?
It’s critical that Obama — and the rest of the political establishment — hear loud objections, not reverential silence, when he flirts with ideas like the ones he suggested on Sunday. This dynamic prevails with all political issues. Where political pressure comes only from one side, that is the side that wins — period.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/13/obama/index.html
Obama, of course, expects no less. During the campaign, he actually asked us to keep him accountable.
If that sounds like the view that I repeatedly espoused during the election, it’s because it is. And it’s quite possible to be reasonable and respectful, and still rationally and vehemently disagree, or advocate for a cause that’s been taken off the table.
FDR was, of course, a consummate political leader. In one situation, a group came to him urging specific actions in support of a cause in which they deeply believed. He replied: I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.
http://www.feri.org/common/news/details.cfm?QID=954&clientid=11005
(Source: Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Library)
The reality of how bad bush and the repubs. have screwed the economy and the country are settling in. Of course there will have to be delays and tweaks.
What was it, about six months ago we were hearing how healthy the economy was, and that it was only a mental recession?
The surgeon is about to make his first cut, and there’s no telling what he’s going to find in the dying patient.
Oops. Looks like “The One (with no resume)” is appointing one with, well, no resume:
Top-drawer legal practices have been built, enviable careers have been charted, and much ink has been spilled, based on a proposition that is rarely disputed: Arguing before the Supreme Court ain’t for amateurs.
The justices themselves have fueled this perception by turning oral argument into an extreme sport that subjects the advocate to a barrage of questions — each of which must be answered strategically, accurately and, most of all, immediately. In their body language and their rulings, the justices often make it clear that they are happier when the target of their fusillade is a familiar face.
If confirmed, Elena Kagan will soon walk into this club as solicitor general, without a single Supreme Court oral argument to point to in her past — or, it appears, any other appellate experience. President-elect Barack Obama said last week he would nominate the Harvard Law School president to the position.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202427376888
The article goes on to say, of course, that the lack of experience doesn’t matter, flying in the face of everything we know: experience, in nearly EVERY endeavor, matters.
Of course, the same magazine recently published this:
New Study Suggests Veteran Advocates Sway Supreme Court
October 22, 2007
For the elite of the Supreme Court Bar, this is the Gilded Age. Or call it the Age of the Guild.
The Court’s docket continues to shrink. Yet dramatic new research by Georgetown University Law Center professor Richard Lazarus shows that more and more of the Court’s cases are brought and argued by the seasoned veterans who have honed Supreme Court practice into a fine, and exclusive, art form. Last term, fully 44 percent of the nongovernment petitions that were granted review by the Court were filed by such veteran advocates. In 1980, that number was less than 6 percent.
The justices and their law clerks, it seems clear, pay special attention to the briefs and arguments of these virtuosos of the bar. Chief Justice John Roberts Jr., after all, was once one of them, arguing 39 cases to the Court in his days as an appellate lawyer in the private and public sector. And Lazarus cites a 2004 survey published in the Journal of Law & Politics indicating that 88 percent of law clerks openly acknowledged giving extra consideration to briefs filed by what one called the “inner circle” of the Supreme Court Bar. The clerks, who play a crucial role in screening incoming cases for their justices, often then go to work for these same firms, garnering hiring bonuses that this year have reached $250,000.
But experience doesn’t matter – for the person arguing the US’s position, on the most important cases, before the SCOTUS.
Figures. Apparantly, we’re told, experience doesn’t matter for the top job either.
Might not be bad idea to clear the air with a perp walk for the former administration. Just to let us know he’s serious.
“dadman
Posted January 14, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink
…as far as I am concerned .. if the “rest-of-the-world” didn’t exist .. America would be just fine . . . . . . God bless America”
what do you do for a living dadman?
I bet it is dependant on the ‘rest-of-the-world’.
Why can’t Obama just appoint competent people like Schlozman?
Bush Justice official castigated for partisanship
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Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print By James Vicini James Vicini – Tue Jan 13, 1:00 pm ET
Featured Topics: Barack Obama Presidential Transition WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A Justice Department official in the Bush administration illegally favored job applicants with conservative Republican views and acted against liberals, a department report said on Tuesday.
The report by the Justice Department inspector general was the latest in a series that recorded partisan bias in the department during the eight years under President George W. Bush, who leaves office next week.
Federal law and Justice Department policy prohibit considering political factors in hiring and other personnel decisions for career positions.
The report said the official, Bradley Schlozman, placed limits on the assignment of cases to attorneys whom he described as “libs” or “pinkos” in the Department’s civil rights division. It said he requested that important cases be handled by conservative attorneys he had hired.
The report said Schlozman expressed concern about whether several career attorneys could “be trusted” because he believed they had not voted for Bush in the 2004 election. He violated the law by weighing political views in hiring decisions, it said.
Schlozman forwarded to colleagues, with an approving note, an e-mail in which the sender asserted he liked his coffee “Mary Frances Berry style, black and bitter.” Berry, who is black, headed the U.S. Commission on Civil rights from 1993 to 2004.
The report focused on Schlozman’s activities from mid-2003 through early 2006. He served as the deputy and then the acting assistant attorney general.
A report in September sharply criticized former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and found that partisan political factors played a part in the firing of several U.S. attorneys in 2006.
The latest report concluded that Schlozman made false statements about his actions when he testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2007 and in his later written responses to questions. But the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington this month declined to prosecute Schlozman.
Schlozman resigned in August 2007 and does not face any disciplinary action by the department. But the report will be referred to bar association authorities for review.
Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the department had already adopted a number of reforms. “We are confident that the institutional problems identified in today’s report no longer exist and will not recur,” he said.
Rhonda–
Liberals aren’t worried.
We’re thrilled. The most liberal candidate who ran for president (next to Kuchinich) WON.
He always said he was a pragmatist, not an ideologue, and I think reasonable people don’t have a problem with that.
Also, he will eliminate the discriminatory “don’t ask, don’t tell” military policy, so feel free to correct yourself with a big “I’m sorry for rumormongering” when he does it.
Only idiots like bush go in with an agenda and stick to it no matter what they find after getting in.
Good one, Phantom.
Or what about other Bush appointees with mammoth resumes?
“Heckovajob” Brownie, Disaster Manager who turned out to be a disaster
The kids of RepubliCON big donors who were put in charge of Iraq’s reconstruction, like planning roads and rebuilding the stock exchange.
The president of the nation’s largest general science organization yesterday sharply criticized recent cases of Bush administration political appointees gaining permanent federal jobs with responsibility for making or administering scientific policies, saying the result would be “to leave wreckage behind.”
“It’s ludicrous to have people who do not have a scientific background, who are not trained and skilled in the ways of science, make decisions that involve resources, that involve facilities in the scientific infrastructure,” said James McCarthy, a Harvard University oceanographer who is president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. “You’d just like to think people have more respect for the institution of government than to leave wreckage behind with these appointments.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/21/AR2008112103359.html?nav=rss_politics/administration
*****
In an administration notorious for appointing party hacks and ideologues over competence and experience, supporters of Bush have no room to talk when Obama appoints the President of Harvard Law to a legal position.
But then, GMC didn’t go to Harvard Law, did he?
It was a correspondance course from Washburn . . .
“Draw a picture of Winky and get admitted!”
#
Chas
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:59 am | Permalink
donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:53 am | Permalink
The liberals won’t be happy until we have a totalitarian Socialist state like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.
===========================================
Make up your mind… do you want a Soviet Russia, or a Nazi Germany?? You might remember it was those Soviets who helped the Allies bring down Nazi Germany…
_________________________
What difference does it make? They were both totalitarian and Socialist. Just because you call them “Reich Wingers”, doesn’t make the right totalitarian.
Don’t forget before the Soviets became Allies, they were allied with Nazi Germany. Remember the Soviets stabbed the Bolsheviks in the back, so they eat their own. The same thing will happen to you liberals if we become a Socialist state.
NAZI stands for National SOCIALIST German Workers’ Party.
Uh, Capn, Bush isn’t president. Or won’t be in six days. You’ll have to find a new dead horse to beat.
Or is this the “you did it first, NA NA NA” defense?
A “different kind of politician,” Obama was to be. Remember?
Well – not so much.
“NAZI stands for SOCIALIST!”
Yeah, Donnyboy, we know. Unfortunately, that’s the only thing you CONs seem to know about Nazi fascism.
Hitler used the facade of socialism early on when it suited his purposes, but soon abandoned any pretense of it when he became part of the government. In fact, he allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude) and purged the party of the few remaining actual socialists.
Read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer (as I did) if you want the definitive history.
But I doubt that you will because the book is about 1800 pages long . . .
donn –
What difference does it make? They were both totalitarian and Socialist.
Yup. Only an accident of history (and the 30’s-era American Left’s fascination with the Soviet Union) have created this artificial distinction. They were, in practice, two peas in a pod. And both ideologically related to today’s extreme left in America.
When you criticize Bush for his 99 percent of incompetent ideological appointments, then I’ll criticize Obama for his perhaps one percent poor appointments.
So – is IS the “you did it first, NA NA NA” defense!!!!!
Just so I know.
“In fact, he allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude) and purged the party of the few remaining actual socialists.”
Maybe Hitler wasn’t so bad after all.
Canard d’ jour:
“And both [Soviet totalitarism and Nazi fascism are] ideologically related to today’s extreme left in America.”
Members of America’s “extreme left”–
Martin Luther King (who would have been executed in either the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany for peaceful protest)
Saul Alinsky (who would have been executed simply for being Jewish in Nazi Germany)
Noam Chomsky (ditto)
Those are about the only people “on the extreme left” I can think of in the recent history of the United States.
What is a pragmatic Liberal?
Capns answer: A CON.
Correct, Fleettwood.
Hitler did a lot of the things you CONs want–sent huge taxpayer dollars to big business and let the ordinary worker pick up the tab.
Also the Nazis used slave labor, which is what Wal-Mart does de facto and it’s what RepubliCONs support in American Saipan etc.
When a single mom who works at Wal-Mart has a sick kid, they tell her to go on Medicaid. The richest company in the world refuses to pay for healthcare for its workers: A perfect example of socialize the costs, privatize the profits.
Just like the Nazis did . . . There was a reason that the Nazis were so popular among the ruling elite (i.e., the robber barons) in Germany. He showed them the money.
“Also the Nazis used slave labor, which is what Wal-Mart does de facto…”
Oh Brother.
RFL–
Wrong.
CONs under Bush are the epitome of ideological and anti-pragmatic. Why do you think Bush loves to use the phrase “faith-based.” Everything he did was “faith-based,” based on his free-market theology with no basis in actual fact.
If tax breaks for the rich really benefited society overall, I’d be for them.
They don’t.
GMC–
“First remove the log from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Who said that?
Wal-Mart comes into a small community and because Bush has gutted anti-trust laws, crushes the competition by its vast monopolistic distribution system.
Then the only jobs are working for Wal-Mart at poverty wages.
Technically, it’s not slavery. They don’t get routinely whipped. But the difference in pay between working at WalMart and slavery is so small that it hardly matters.
Slaves, after all, got health care.
“First remove the log from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Who said that?
========================
Paul Bunyan?
Capn,
I’m with you man. The CONS need to go. CONS need to recognize the facts. The facts say that when the markets go down, it is the CONS fault.
The facts say that without CONS everything would be fine. period.
See there it is. That is what the facts say. It is on black in white in my post. It must be so.
Will you join me for a CON hunt this weekend?
Hey CapnAmerica!
Remember when you posted all those gloating paragraphs of how great Social Security was, and Bush had no business trying to fix one of the best most successful Federal Programs good old FDR enacted?
So why’s Obama about to “fix” it? It ain’t broke, or wasn’t broke a few years ago.
RFL, there is a limit you know.
And only females may be taken.
And you better have tags.
RFL–
As the past master of snark and sarcasm, I appreciate your attempt at reductio ad absurdium.
When markets go down, it’s not always the CON’s fault.
However, when the CONs have their way for eight years implementing every “free trade” (read: good for the already rich) deal they can, and the market goes down and stays down, only a die-hard CON can say, “there’s no relation between our policies and the worst economy since the Great Depression.”
Leave it to a liberal like CapnAmerica to turn one of Americas success stories, employing millions of Americans – more than GM, into a negative.
One of the few companies in 2008 to post gains.
Liberals won’t be happy until they’ve dumbed us all down, emptied all our pocket books, and destroyed all businesses. Throw in their new green legs, and we will be back to living in caves.
“Will you join me for a CON hunt this weekend?”
And if you want to use a semi-automatic assault weapon (whatever that is), you better buy it THIS weekend.
Obama is wrong if he thinks that Social Security needs to be fixed.
It’s the only part of our government that actually brings in more money than it pays out.
Without using “pre-paid” Social Security taxes, the gov’t would be much deeper in debt than it is.
I hear a lot of people telling me what Obama thinks and what he’s going to do.
I’d rather wait a week and see for myself.
“every “free trade””
I thought that was NAFTA?
CapnAmerica, I am not a lib, but even I have seen his website. Go read it.
Change is good, right?
AmWay–
The slave-owning South was a “success story” by your definition.
They provided the US’s biggest exports at the time–cotton and tobacco! They kept wages low making us competitive with poor countries! Slave-owning contractors built the White House, saving taxpayers millions!
As Jon Stewart said so memorably about Wal-Mart working its employees “off the clock”:
Work at Wal-Mart! It’s better than . . . getting kicked in the nuts.
Dunno if “GMC70″ is still on line, but if you are, counselor, go to the library and check out Clarence Darrow’s “Attorney for the Damned.”
I did, after our little tete a tete over conspiracy law.
Now I realize case law may have evolved over the years but in the Leopold & Lowe chapter Darrow makes the case (or, rather, I basically had recapitulated his views in the previous thread) that “consiracy to…” is one of prosecutors’ most evil tools to abuse criminal law.
So now I’m torn between listening to Clarence Darrow or a low-level hack who collects his tax-paid salary by wiling the hours expressing his political biases.
There’s a college girl who got murdered in Butler County and the perp is not not being brought to trial. There is a missing kid from Butler county who’s god-knows-where and “GMC70″ is assigned a case load that affords him the spare time and taxpayer-funded technology to spew Republic Party talking points.
I assume GMC is playing here during smoke-break time and excercising a perquisite to occasionally use the computer for personal use.
judge not….
Remember that $3,000 tax break Obama promised to businesses that provided new jobs? I heard last night that it went by the wayside.
It’s not Obama I worry about; it’s congressional Democrats. Even if they had a super majority in the Senate, they couldn’t get anything done. You can’t get Democrats in congress to all work together.
I expect 4 more years of the same-old same-old where a minority of Republicans make fools of the ruling party.
All the while, our country slips over the edge…
Cap this is just a lie:
“When a single mom who works at Wal-Mart has a sick kid, they tell her to go on Medicaid. The richest company in the world refuses to pay for healthcare for its workers: A perfect example of socialize the costs, privatize the profits.”
My neice works for Walmart and has for eight years. She has a good health plan, a 401k and other benefits. Her wage is about the same as the rest of the stores around. Other than the ‘feel good’ song they sing every morning she like it.
You guys need to get your facts straight. Why don’t you say ‘Walmart is non union and is making money’ since this is what bothers you.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted January 14, 2009 at 10:43 am | Permalink
“NAZI stands for SOCIALIST!”
Yeah, Donnyboy, we know. Unfortunately, that’s the only thing you CONs seem to know about Nazi fascism.
Hitler used the facade of socialism early on when it suited his purposes, but soon abandoned any pretense of it when he became part of the government. In fact, he allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude) and purged the party of the few remaining actual socialists.
Read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer (as I did) if you want the definitive history.
But I doubt that you will because the book is about 1800 pages long . . .
______________________
I read it 30 years ago when I was as liberal as you are today.
The first fallacy is in the header. What, Me Worried?
Wow, MonkeyHock reads a book and suddenly becomes a legal expert.
Evidently, the blog’s primate must have also read some holy book as he can cast aspersions on GMC’s duties and obligations.
Isn’t reading fun?
It can turn you into a judgmental idiot just like most of the Libs on this blog.
Folks, a little knowledge is dangerous.
Don’t practice medicine without a license.
Don’t be a jailhouse lawyer.
And don’t pick a gunfight with your local S.W.A.T. team just because you’ve seen a movie.
donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink
…Read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer (as I did) if you want the definitive history.
But I doubt that you will because the book is about 1800 pages long . . .
______________________
I read it 30 years ago when I was as liberal as you are today.”
of course, it was the picture version
They don’t get routinely whipped. But the difference in pay between working at WalMart and slavery is so small that it hardly matters.
—————–
Who is being forced to work at WalMart?
“My neice works for Wal-Mart and she has a good health plan . . . ”
Gee, that’s great.
She’s one of the lucky 43 percent, then.
Here are the facts:
Wal-Mart’s Health Care Plan Fails to Cover Over 775,000 Employees
Wal-Mart reported in January 2006 that its health insurance only covers 43% of their employees. Wal-Mart has approximately 1.39 million US employees. [http://www.walmartfacts.com/docs/1625_jan2006healthcarebackgrounders_576890240.pdf]
Wal-Mart’s Health Insurance Falls Far Short of Other Large Companies
On average for 2005, large companies (200 or more workers) cover approximately 66% of their employees. If Wal-Mart was to reach the average coverage rate, Wal-Mart should be covering an additional 318,000 employees [Kaiser Family Foundation, 2005 and http://www.walmartfacts.com/docs/1625_jan2006healthcarebackgrounders_576890240.pdf.
Wal-Mart's Health Care Eligibility is Restrictive
Part-timers—anybody below 34 hours a week — must wait 1 year before they can enroll. Moreover, spouses of part-time employees are ineligible for family health care coverage for 2006. [Wal-Mart Stores, "My Benefits, New Peak Time Benefits Making a Difference For You," 2006]
Full-time hourly employees must wait 180 days (approximately 6 months) before being able to enroll in Wal-Mart’s health insurance plan. Managers have no waiting period. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide]
Nationally, the average wait time for new employees to become eligible is 1.7 months. For the retail industry it is 3.0 months. [Kaiser Family Foundation & Health Research and Educational Trust, 2005]
All of Wal-Mart’s Health Plans Are Too Costly for Its Workers to Use
Since the average full-time Wal-Mart employee earned $17,114 in 2005, he or she would have to spend between 7 and 25 percent of his or her income just to cover the premiums and medical deductibles, if electing for single coverage. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide and UFCW analysis]
The average full-time employee electing for family coverage would have to spend between 22 and 40 percent of his or her income just to cover the premiums and medical deductibles. These costs do not include other health-related expenses such as medical co-pays, prescription coverage, emergency room deductibles, and ambulance deductibles. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide and UFCW Analysis].
Wal-Mart trumps the affordability of its new health care plan. According to Wal-Mart, “In January [2006], …Coverage will be available for as little as $22 per month for individuals” [www.walmartfacts.com]
What Wal-Mart’s website leaves out: Coverage is affordable, but using it will bankrupt many employees. Wal-Mart’s most affordable plan for 2006 includes a $1,000 deductible for single coverage and a $3,000 deductible for family coverage ($1,000 deductible per person covered up to $3,000). [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide]
Wal-Mart Admits Public Health Care is a “Better Value”
President and CEO Lee Scott said in 2005, “In some of our states, the public program may actually be a better value – with relatively high income limits to qualify, and low premiums.” [Transcript Lee Scott Speech 4/5/05]
Wal-Mart’s Health Care is Getting Costlier
Between 2000-2005, the cost of premiums rose 169 percent for single coverage and 117 percent for family coverage. [UFCW analysis of annual Wal-Mart Associate Guides].
In comparison, premiums for family coverage in the U.S. have increased only by 59%, from 2000-2005. [Employer Health Benefits: 2004 Annual Survey, Kaiser Family Foundation & Health Research and Educational Trust, 2004]
In 2004, Wal-Mart employees, in total, paid approximately 41% of the plan costs [Wal-Mart IRS 5500 Filings, 2005].
Nationally for 2004 on average employees paid for only 16% of single coverage costs and 28% of family coverage costs [Kaiser Family Foundation, 2005].
Wal-Mart Covers Less of the Health Care Costs Compared to Its Competitors
In a state analysis, the Massachusetts Department of Health and Human Services found that in 2003, Wal-Mart covered only 52% of total health care premium costs compared to K-Mart which covered 66%, Target which covered 68%, and Sears which covered 80% ["Employers Who Have 50 or More Employees Using Public Health Assistance," Division of Health Care Finance and Policy, 2/2005]
Wal-Mart’s Spending Falls Below Industry Standards
Wal-Mart’s spending on health care for its employees falls well below industry and national employer averages. In 2002, as reported in the Wall Street Journal, Wal-Mart spent an average of $3,500 per employee. By comparison, the average spending per employee in the wholesale/retailing sector was $4,800. For U.S. employers in general, the average was $5,600 per employee, Therefore, Wal-Mart’s average spending on health benefits for each covered employee was 27% less than the industry average and 37% less than the national average. [Bernard Wysocki, Jr. and Ann Zimmerman, "Wal-Mart Cost-Cutting Finds a Big Target in Health Benefits," Wall Street Journal September 30, 2003 p1]
Wal-Mart Only Spends 77 Cents an Hour Per Employee for Health Benefits
In 2004, Wal-Mart spent $1.5 billion on its health insurance. This amounts to an employer contribution of around only $0.77 an hour per employee. This accounts for approximately a half-percent of Wal-Mart’s $285 billion in sales in 2004. [Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005, Wal-Mart Annual Report, 2005].
Wal-Mart Increased Advertising More Than Health Care
In 2004, Wal-Mart spent nearly the same amount on advertising as it did on health insurance. In 2004, Wal-Mart reports that it spent $1.5 billion on health care benefits and $1.4 billion in advertising. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005, Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005]
Between 2003 and 2004, Wal-Mart increased its advertising budget by $434 million, only increasing its spending on employee health care by $100 million. That means Wal-Mart increased its spending on advertising by 45 percent while only increasing its spending on employee health care by 7 percent. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005, Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005]
In fact, Wal-Mart has consistently increased spending on advertising more than its spending on employee health care. Between 2002 and 2003, Wal-Mart put more new funds into advertising than into health care. Wal-Mart increased spending on advertising by $290 million, while only increasing health care spending by $215 million for the same period. (note: this also occurred in 1995-96, 1997-98,1998-1999). [Wal-Mart Annual Reports and 5500 Filings]
One Out of Six Wal-Mart Employees Has No Health Care Coverage At All
This is more than double the national percentage for large firms (firms with over 100 employees). In fact, we estimate that Wal-Mart accounted in 2005 for more than 1 out of every 40 uninsured workers who are employed at a large firm. [Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005; Wal-Mart Annual Report; "Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance Coverage: Sponsorship, Eligibility, and Participation Patterns in 2001," Bowen Garrett, Ph.D., released by the Kaiser Family Foundation September 2004]
As usual, capn is over the top with his ridiculous rhertoric, claiming that Walmart got so large because “Bush has gutted anti-trust laws, crushes the competition by its vast monopolistic distribution system.”
What a pile of garbage. Even the briefest look at Walmart’s history shows its expansion began in the 1960′ and 70′, expanding past Arkansas for the first time in 1968.
But, facts never have bothered capn and his extremist, hate filled diatribes, have they? Naw, facts are inconvenient and irrelevant to capn.
Wal-Mart’s Health Care Plan Fails to Cover Over 775,000 Employees
——————–
I would find a different job if I was that unhappy.
oh boy…capn is starting another of his time wasting rants whiiiiing about walmart and all the SLAVES forced to work there.
anyone call the WHAAAMBULANCE for capn and his latest tirade?
“In fact, he(Hitler)allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude)…….
Kinda like Bill Clinton and his Indonesian friends.
Amazing…this thread started off pointing out how Obama is mainly just another politician who would say anything to get elected (as they all do). Now capn is using it to whine about a soon to be ex president and walmart.
can’t you just feel the hatred emanating from him? Like venom…it just pours from his fingertips…
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:56 am | Permalink
“In fact, he(Hitler)allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude)…….
Kinda like Bill Clinton and his Indonesian friends.”
I don’t see how they are ‘kinda like’ at all. Care to elaborate?
re: The Topic Header
Libs
Primose Path
Led Down
That’s all for now.
That’s the beautiful thing about wage-slavery in George W. Bush’s America: the slavers just rent their slaves instead of buying and owning them . . .
“I would find a different job if I was that unhappy.”
God gave us feet for a reason.
You’re right, Raptor. I do hate Wal-Mart.
I hate everything it stands for: consumer culture, cheap mass-produced crap manufactured by slaves, sold by slaves, and for the most part, bought by slaves.
People who are taught to be helpless, taught that their only goal is to ratify decisions by powerful interests and to consume.
…hope the Crapn doesn’t shop at SAM’s
man, you sure spend a lot of time and energy hating a corporation. and what does it get you? Absolutely nothing except your own increased blood pressure.
I pity you and your incomprehensible levels of hatred.
Anti asks, “Who is being forced to work at WalMart?”
No one.
Just as no one is forced to eat . . .
“Just as no one is forced to eat . . .”
Getting weaker by the minute.
“People who are taught to be helpless…”
I don’t think trashing the Libs is helpful.
Raptor, the Crapn is part of the far left. He is not a Liberal, but a leftist. They’re a combination of anarchist and old school kommies.
The thing that the Crapn loves most is to cause chaos. Frustrated by his impotence in the real world to do so, he comes to this blog in all of his non-glorious limpness and tries to project ’something.’
Which, btw usually gets laughed at for its diminutive size and minuscule nature. Talking about the Crapn’s ideology of course. :)
The Crapn is another monkey in a cage. The only thing he can do is crappp all over his cage, and sling slit balls through the bars.
The Crapn’s real ideology is ego. That is, as long as he can pump up his self importance and fool his Lib and Leftist friends he is something that he isn’t, he’s fine with that.
#
brian_nuevo
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:56 am | Permalink
“In fact, he(Hitler)allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude)…….
Kinda like Bill Clinton and his Indonesian friends.”
I don’t see how they are ‘kinda like’ at all. Care to elaborate?
___________________________
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE7D8133EF932A25753C1A960958260
free trade (read: good for the already rich)
-Capn
Really how is that?
Explain to us how allowing all products to compete on the open market regardless of origin benefits the already rich exclusively?
Free Trade keeps prices low since it increases competition and prevents inefficient monopolies. Low prices benefit the poor and generates more trade. Localized regions with an economic advantage can exploit that advantage on the global market and be rewarded for providing the best value at the best possible price. Growth ensues, cost of living decreases and the economy expands by adding jobs as cheaper products flood the country which is importing the goods. It is win-win as long as national security issues are not involved.
Real growth is good for the poor and rich. Artificial growth like home prices being propped up by governmental decree does not help the poor (or the rich) since the real value of things are always found out.
Unfortunately, Free Trade is a two edged sword but ultimately it makes the countries better off.
America has had a monopoly in many areas and are becoming inefficient because of it. The current slump is case in point. When America loses such a monopoly, it will hurt short sighted Americans who will not adjust to the new demands. Trying to perpetuate these inefficient monopolies by government props is not a solution but it is a head in the sand approach.
I will gladly join in with the fact free blockheaded CON bashing when the reduction to absurdium is no great leap from what is being propogated routinely on this blog.
Sen. Hatch is on arguing for Geithner to get approved.
Raptor–
Thanks for your concern, but you can save it.
Only a small amount of my time and energy is spent on the Weblog shouting from the rooftops at the deaf CONs like you.
My real passion is organizing for power (as Saul Alinsky said), and while my achievements in that area won’t change the world, they have made changes . . .
Last year, I talked for nearly an hour over the phone with Howard Dean. Two days ago I got a call from an Obama operative. I actually hung up on him thinking it was a solicitation for money, but he called back and it dawned on me who it was.
My efforts, although small and plodding, are getting noticed.
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 12:28 pm | Permalink
#
brian_nuevo
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 11:56 am | Permalink
“In fact, he(Hitler)allied himself with the big buisness interests (to their great relief and gratitude)…….
Kinda like Bill Clinton and his Indonesian friends.”
I don’t see how they are ‘kinda like’ at all. Care to elaborate?
___________________________
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE7D8133EF932A25753C1A960958260”
OK, I read the article. It mentioned nothing about how Bill Clinton was like Hitler. The article talked about the relationship between an Indonesian billionaire and Clinton.
Is your correlation between Clinton and Hitler based on the fact that both were leaders of countries and both had contacts and personal relationships with business leaders?
Can you name a President since the time of Hitler that has not been allied with and probably influenced by business interests?
“People who are taught to be helpless, taught that their only goal is to ratify decisions by powerful interests and to consume.”
-Capn
Capn opposes the the system that makes people helpless. The Welfare System teaches people to be helpless by giving them everthing. CONS oppose the welfare system. Therefore, Capn is a CON.
Capn hates powerful interests that control people. Big governement is a powerful interest. CONS hate big governnment. Capn is a CON.
Does the Capn know that he is a CON?
“Will you join me for a CON hunt this weekend?”
And if you want to use a semi-automatic assault weapon (whatever that is), you better buy it THIS weekend.
I’m game, but is it legal to hunt Cons in Kansas? Isn’t a special permit required?
RFL–
Wow. You learned your Church of the Holy Incarnate Market Place catachesim by rote!
Good on your teachers.
Free trade is not inherently bad, and I never said it was. But unregulated free trade IS bad . . . because unregulated free trade becomes UNfree trade in a hurry.
That’s what we learned when one person controls the railroads. Competitors are forced out by undercutting and unsustainable pricing–that’s why “dumping” is supposed to be illegal, although it continues to occur under “I don’t care” Bush.
When they go bankrupt, then the predatory monopoly buys them at fire sale prices and continues to gobble up market share.
Consider Wal-Mart. It gets all kinds of tax breaks when it locates in a small town . . . tax breaks that all the other mom and pop stores don’t get. These stores then are forced to pay subsidies that put them out of business.
The wages that Wal-Mart pays are invariably less than the former stores pay. Look it up yourself. In fact, commercial real estate prices and wages fall significantly when Wal-Mart comes in, because both companies and jobs are forced out of the community.
Because of its massive distribution system, which is efficient I’ll grant you, in the same way the BORG are efficient, mom and pop stores cannot compete. But what is lost is the middle class way of life.
Wal-Mart is a new form of an old, old practice: monopoly.
“The Welfare System teaches people to be helpless by giving them everthing.”
False. Rush Limbaugh was on welfare for two years. Obama’s mother was on food stamps. JK Rowling, the mega rich author, was on welfare in England.
“Capn hates powerful interests that control people. Big governement is a powerful interest.”
Mostly false.
Big government is a powerful force, but one that must answer to the voters. The people running big Corps don’t have to answer to anyone.
(Theoretically, they have to answer to shareholders but as a small shareholder of many companies, I have zero influence.)
brian_nuevo
Posted January 14, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
OK, I read the article. It mentioned nothing about how Bill Clinton was like Hitler. The article talked about the relationship between an Indonesian billionaire and Clinton.
Is your correlation between Clinton and Hitler based on the fact that both were leaders of countries and both had contacts and personal relationships with business leaders?
________________________
The correlation between Clinton and Hitler is that both were Socialists who allied with Communists.
brian, You’d better get your blue dress so you can take Monica Lewinski’s place.
Wait until Nobama lets the Israeli’s down and the Mossad releases his Kenyan birth certificate; the libs have a reason to be worried
The good capn gives three examples of former welfare people and thinks he is a genius.
The fact remains “The Welfare System teaches people to be helpless by giving them everthing.”
Capn,
Competitors that charge higher freight are indeed forced out. Is this supposed to be a problem? The bigger railroads can charge lower freight because of economies of scale. Roosevelt busted up the railroads because he hated monopolies. But the railroads themselves busted up the monopolies that mom and pops had over the local economy.
Companies from outside the region could place their products on any marketplace because of the railroads. Local mom and pop’s no longer had a monopoly on the local economy. Competition from outside suppliers forced them out. Lower priced goods became the norm. The angst against railroads came from local farmers and others like them who did not like competition. Roosevelt was bamboozled into thinking he was helping competition by busting up the railraods. He was actually hurting it. such is the inevitability with good intentions by the powerful interest of the government
That is exaclty what happened. The railroad industry crumbled and up popped the truckers to replace it. The mom and pops who are inefficient sucumbed eventually. Or they adjusted to the new economy and developed a niche that the outside mass producer could not match.
How do you prove that a company is “dumping”? A company comes up with an innovation allowing it to make its products cheaper and meet the customer demands for quality. It sells them cheaper. Competitors go broke. Sue the company for dumping right?
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink
brian_nuevo
Posted January 14, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
OK, I read the article. It mentioned nothing about how Bill Clinton was like Hitler. The article talked about the relationship between an Indonesian billionaire and Clinton.
Is your correlation between Clinton and Hitler based on the fact that both were leaders of countries and both had contacts and personal relationships with business leaders?
________________________
The correlation between Clinton and Hitler is that both were Socialists who allied with Communists.”
You better watch you mouth…referring to Prescott Bush as a Communist might get you disappeared
“Consider Wal-Mart. It gets all kinds of tax breaks when it locates in a small town . . . tax breaks that all the other mom and pop stores don’t get.”
Who gives Wal-Mart Tax breaks? Is not the government the only entity posessing the power to tax? The government gives Wal-Mart tax breaks. The government is controlled by the people. Powerful interest indeed. Perhaps you should expand your horizons regarding exactly which powerful interests should be held in check if you are truly incensed at Wal-Mart’s tax breaks.
The first Free Trade Agreement was signed by Reagan with a country with the similar wage rates, stronger social nets and stricter envoinmental laws. The reason behind it was to implement a mechanism to solve the trade myriad of disputes that hindered trade expansion going north and south. It worked fine, until Clinton decided to include Mexico much to the protests of the existing partner who worried low labor even worse environmental standards would bring a rush to the bottom. They were right, but were ignored leaving them in a bind for the US owns a huge chunk their economy, and what you do when your biggest trading partner says “my way or the highway”? Bush continued Clintons’ pressure for them to drop their health insurance claiming it was an unfair subsidy of labor. Now with energy supreme, a huge surprlus in trade balance, the proven value of a sound banking system (rated 1st by the WTO, with the US at 40th spot), the shoe is on the other foot and they are talking seriously about getting out of NAFTA, for it seems China and India are offering to fill any void in their exports. I read where Obama, with all the hot spots in the world, will go north for his first visit anywhere, because without their energy readily available to us, any plan by any president is doomed. They will also stop being our biggest customer very quickly
brian, LOL You’re probably one of those who believe that Bush bailed out of the first plane before it hit the world trade center then hijacked the second plane and bailed out of it as well.
Did you make this video too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fws4RxWtnOg&feature=related
Man oh man, the right wing is nasty today.
You folks all get up on the wrong side of the bed?
Whew!!
Dennis
Man oh man, the
rightleft wing is nasty today.Fixed it for ya, Ydog. You obviously haven’t been paying attention.
Anyone else ‘impressed’ with capn’s name dropping? I am certainly not. an ‘obama operative’? sheeesh…go impress someone else with your own perceived importance…it is certainly lost here with your extremist hyperbole and continual blindness to facts.
Will you join me for a CON hunt this weekend?”
I’m game, but is it legal to hunt Cons in Kansas? Isn’t a special permit required?
Sure it is. Its open season. Just make sure you don’t take out a young pragmatic Liberal. After liberals learn how to survive in the real world, they start to mimic the CONS. Makes it real hard to tell them apart.
“donndublin
Posted January 14, 2009 at 2:18 pm | Permalink
brian, LOL You’re probably one of those who believe that Bush bailed out of the first plane before it hit the world trade center then hijacked the second plane and bailed out of it as well. ”
that is just silly
Okay, anybody who will argue that Rockfeller’s price fixing, price gouging, kickbacks and dumping were a good thing is beyond all hope.
Good luck to you there in Ayn Rand land, RFL.
I just hope you don’t get seriously sick while feeling the full effects of “marketplace discipline” (layoffs, slow-downs, downsizing) that you so love.
Now that employers only rent their slaves instead of own them, there’s no incentive for them to keep you alive.
“You’re probably one of those who believe that Bush bailed out of the first plane before it hit the world trade center then hijacked the second plane and bailed out of it as well. ”
that is just silly”
Of course it is. That was Jack Bauer.
WE’RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, CHLOE!
“After liberals learn how to survive in the real world, they start to . . . .”
Okay, I’ll bite, RFL.
What world do we liberals live in before we learn to survive in the real world?
donndublin,
Didn’t you post a link to support your opinion, by a author who believes that 9/11 was caused by the U.S. government?
“What world do we liberals live in before we learn to survive in the real world?”
Ask the Obama Operative. Or Dean.
Raptor–
A CON would drop names to try to impress people. That’s because at the heart of their philosophy is a justification of selfishness.
Ayn Rand even wrote a treatise about it called “The Virtue of Selfishness.”
My point was simply that an ordinary guy in an ordinary town can make a difference if he’s willing to work at working with others.
Fleettwood–
Real question for ya: do you do anything else except blog here?
Yep,
donndublin posted January 12, 2009 at 8:09 am
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-112-4/#comment-501838
“Real question for ya: do you do anything else except blog here?”
I spend a lot of time talking to Mitch McConnell and John Boehner.
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fleettwood
Posted January 14, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink
“Real question for ya: do you do anything else except blog here?”
I spend a lot of time talking to Mitch McConnell and John Boehner.
========================
And here all this time I though you were a navigator for an intergalactic crew and alien sheep wrangler.
My bad…
Fleettwood’s answer translated: no.
Thought for the day by two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner, Marine Corps General Smedley Butler–
WAR is a racket. It always has been.
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small “inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.
How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.
And what is this bill?
This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.
For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it.
More at http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
“And here all this time I though you were a navigator for an intergalactic crew and alien sheep wrangler.”
It does have something to do with sheep, but I will address that in court. Not here.
Did democratunderground tell you to post that?
Obama defering campaign promises? No money honey?
Maybe here’s why:
Newser) – By the time Barack and Michelle Obama dance the last waltz at the inaugural balls in the wee hours next Wednesday morning, the total tab for the inauguration will be close to a record $160 million.
http://www.newser.com/story/47836/inaugural-to-cost-record-160m.html
The total cost of Mr. Bush’s second inauguration was roughly $40 million, including concerts, dinners and balls that were paid for by private donations.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/20/15-million-for-inauguration-less-than-cost-for-bus/
…Regarding the Bush budget “It seems like there are more importent things we should be spending our tax dollars … said candidate Obama during the campaign”,/b>
This seems really high since the cost of things now are down. What would it have been with inflation.
ahhhh…if someone capn doesn’t agree with ‘drops names’, they are trying to impress someone. But if capn does it, it is only to make a point.
what a phony hippocrite you are.
I wonder how many children across the U.S. could get their health care paid for instead of the 160 million dollars spent on Obama’s inauguration?
A CON would drop names to try to impress people.
Of course, that’s exactly what Capn was attempting to do. I guess RFL was right- he IS a CON!!!
Shocking.
Ya know, with his history: “My real passion is organizing for power (as Saul Alinsky said), and while my achievements in that area won’t change the world, they have made changes” and all those ‘high-powered’ connections, one wonders why Capn’s still tinkering around this little blog. Why, he’s practically ready to run for president, being a “community organizer” and all . . .
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cosmos_originally
Posted January 14, 2009 at 4:04 pm | Permalink
donndublin,
Didn’t you post a link to support your opinion, by a author who believes that 9/11 was caused by the U.S. government?
_____________________________
I don’t see how those two issues are connected. I sure if he IPCC told you the moon was made out of cheese, you would bet your life on it.
Unlike you cos I don’t agree with every opinion that someone has. That just proves that you have blind faith and can not think for yourself. I evaluate things on their merits without being biased.
Your IQ must be about the same as your age.
More from Marine General Smedley Butler: “I spent 33 years in the Marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism.”
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cosmos_originally
Posted January 14, 2009 at 4:08 pm | Permalink
Yep,
donndublin posted January 12, 2009 at 8:09 am
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-112-4/#comment-501838
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That was your post idiot. There you go lying again.
What . . . me worry?
GMC the CON so concerned about maintaining judical standards . . .
Hey, G-Man, you know this guy?
I’m betting you do since he’s now practicing in Wichita.
Why don’t you drop his name while you’re at it?
*****
A former top Justice Department official made false statements to Congress and violated federal law in overseeing the agency’s civil rights division, investigators say.
The accusations against Bradley Schlozman, the former acting head of the civil rights division, are included in a new report by the department’s inspector general, Glenn Fine.
Tuesday’s report is the latest of several inquiries that found senior Justice Department officials violated civil service laws under the tenure of former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
So long, luoosers . . . .
What happened capn? democratunderground didn’t return your calls?
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Regular
Posted January 14, 2009 at 4:47 pm | Permalink
I wonder how many children across the U.S. could get their health care paid for instead of the 160 million dollars spent on Obama’s inauguration?
__________________
I thought it was suppose to be the second coming.
Gee- Have we all forgotten who brought us this economic mess…the GOP so someone has to have some fiscal responsibility. I think we are giving too much interest of the liberals they can be dangerous but so can conservatives.
I’m not worried. I’m overjoyed that we will have a president who can talk in complete sentences, use the language correctly, and make sense at the same time. The best part–he doesn’t look goofy while he’s doing it.
In such hard economic time what else could he be Conservative? It only makes sense and is a foreign concept to the current administration. Though he really should reconsider NAFTA it was wrong to begin with and not sound judgment.
“I’m not worried. I’m overjoyed that we will have a president who can talk in complete sentences, use the language correctly, and make sense at the same time. The best part–he doesn’t look goofy while he’s doing it.”
I second that!
The best part–he doesn’t look goofy while he’s doing it.”
I second that!
=================================================
Gotta be a couple of liberal women who make their sound voting decisions based upon looks.
But wait, there are a few media outlets who might show the bad photo’s of God Obama! The weblog specialized in showing the worst of Bush. So obviously slanted. But God Bless em. The world needs a leader praised for how he looks. H*ll, it’s historic! A half white man gonna be president! No wait. A white man. No wait. The black half counts as a FULL. He’s black I tell you!
Yeah, women and looks.
No, I happen to like him for his brilliant mind…something you don’t often see in most men!
Mary why do you put men down like that.
You know full well men look at women for their brilliant minds, right?
Adoration. Worship.
Yeah..and a man would NEVER judge a woman by how she looks..LOL
Words can not describe how happy I am that Obama won the presidency. I feel hopeful for our country for the first time in a long time. I know Obama has the potential to be a great leader.
“Gee- Have we all forgotten who brought us this economic mess…the GOP so someone has to have some fiscal responsibility.”
So let’s spend big money on SCHIP and insure other peoples kids.
Libs: fiscal responsibility? HA!
Better to spend money on health care for American children than on the phosphorus bombs being dropped right now on Palestinian children.
When it comes to libs and cons..I guess we just have different priorities.
Yeah, the trillion dollar invasion of Iraq is a great example of “conservative” fiscal responsibility.
Gotta hand it to those Republican conservatives…they really know how to manage money..LOL!!!!
“Gee- Have we all forgotten who brought us this economic mess…the GOP so someone has to have some fiscal responsibility.”
Bush and the Republicans were warning about the housing market problem with Freddie and Fannie for two years and the Democrats obstructed any attempt to rein them in and make them responsible. I mean how then could lenders make loans to people that had no ability to pay them.
Democrats for the American Dream.
“Bush and the Republicans were warning about the housing market problem with Freddie and Fannie for two years and the Democrats obstructed any attempt to rein them in and make them responsible. I mean how then could lenders make loans to people that had no ability to pay them.
Democrats for the American Dream.”
I don’t know what universe you live in but that’s NOT how it happened.
“Better to spend money on health care for American children…”
Then go ahead. Knock yourself out. I’m spending my money on insuring my own kids.
Libs: Insure my kids, insure your kids too. I’m too busy quitting my job and expecting a handout to bother.
Mary says,
“Yeah, the trillion dollar invasion of Iraq is a great example of “conservative” fiscal responsibility.”
Exactly. Liberals would have spent less and fought first world nations with a powerful military and won the wars in less time. You know, like that liberal socialist FDR. Conservatives hate liberals so much they will spend obscene amounts of money to lose to third world nations with no military.
And liberals will spend upwards of $150 million on an inauguration in freezing weather. What a waste of money is that Mr. FilthyMaggot
“Liberals would have spent less and fought first world nations with a powerful military and won the wars in less time”
O Brother.
Funny how morons like Boxlicker have no problem with wasting a trillion dollars on killing Arabs but when it comes to $150 million dollars he’s outraged, even though those millions come from private donations to the Democratic party. Yeah, conservatives have no economic sense. Then again, they demanded $700 billion be spent so rich CEOs could go on resort vacations and get their bonuses.
Hey FilthyMaggot, at least when we spend it on as you say “killing Arabs” we get dead Arab terrorists. Your bleeding heart brain dead liberals are wasting it on porta potties, waste all over D.C. and frozen liberal a$$es. Which will be funny to watch.
No better example of stupid a$$ liberals than them standing in sub-freezing weather, wasting $150+ million to watch a ego maniac. Idiots, but we’ve come to expect no better from them.
Delusional boxlicker, in your twisted reality everyone with brown skin is a terrorist.
I know you hate it nazillicker, it must be that jealousy that millions of people are willing to see a popularly elected leader.
“Boxlock20
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:52 pm | Permalink
Hey FilthyMaggot, at least when we spend it on as you say “killing Arabs” we get dead Arab terrorists.”
except with that one guy…what is his name… osama something, wasn’t it?
Osama Bin Forgotten?
AntipatheticMaggot,
Oh I’m going to be watching, at least giving it a cursory glance, to enjoy seeing all those stupid liberals with nothing better to than spend their time and money to stand in snow and trash to see ‘The One’.
It should be quite the ridiculous spectacle of a freak circus, as it usually is when three or more liberals are gathered.
Word
Better than watching a bunch of Reich Wingers standing around watching a burning cross…
Oh, I’m sorry Boxlicker, you must have mistaken me for someone who cares how you waste your life in front of a tv.
Boxlock20
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:55 pm | Permalink
No better example of stupid a$$ liberals than them standing in sub-freezing weather, wasting $150+ million to watch a ego maniac. Idiots, but we’ve come to expect no better from them.
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How much do you figure is spent every week, in some places in snow and sub-freezing weather, watching grown men bash their heads against each other, and SOME of them get paid almost $150Million to PLAY A GAME???
Boxlock20
Posted January 14, 2009 at 8:16 pm | Permalink
“Gee- Have we all forgotten who brought us this economic mess…the GOP so someone has to have some fiscal responsibility.”
Bush and the Republicans were warning about the housing market problem with Freddie and Fannie for two years and the Democrats obstructed any attempt to rein them in and make them responsible.
__________________________________________________
Boxlock, Republicans were “in charge” for 6 of the past 8 years. Why didn’t they do something about it? Could it have anything to do with having to have 60 votes to get anything passed?
Oh, wait a minute…that would explain why Democrats haven’t been able to get anything done these last couple of years.
XXX,
The damn Democrats had Congress these last years that is was becoming apparent things were headed south.
This is it. One world government.
Obama the next Hitler.
They have the banks (stock ownership control)
They have the congress both houses
They will have the US Supreme Court
They control the press.
And now, ladies and gentlemen: They are going to control gun ownership in the US:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1118f17Ca:e6813
Goodbye constitution
Goodby United States of America.
Heil Obama!!!
His minions are introducing the needed legislation which will eliminate ALL means of fighting back.
XXX, you will be required to report the serial number, location, and make/model of ALL guns you possess. AND report anyone else you know owns guns.
To BUY a gun, you will require GOVERNMENT APPROVAL.
A government license.
Sound like the USA you fought for?
Please check out HR 45……….
I’m not making this up. Big brother is here.
Wolverines! :D
Not all guns Roach, at least not yet.
Just all handguns. And all semi-auto guns which have a detachable magazine.
So, that’s only like, 80% of all guns.
So my single shot 22 cal rifle and 4-10 shoot gun is safe for now. :)
America wanted change.
As in the dialectic?
“RoaCH”
Posted January 14, 2009 at 9:41 pm | Permalink
This is it. One world government.
Obama the next Hitler.
They have the banks (stock ownership control)
They have the congress both houses
They will have the US Supreme Court
They control the press.
And now, ladies and gentlemen: They are going to control gun ownership in the US:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1118f17Ca:e6813
Goodbye constitution
Goodby United States of America.
Heil Obama!!!
His minions are introducing the needed legislation which will eliminate ALL means of fighting back.
Sorry I missed this earlier, “RoaCH.”
But I was busy on a commando mission to your house while you were typing this post.
We were on your porch, beaming microwave rays into your brain to force you to write the most paranoiac, psychotic, and patently absurd right wingnuttery yet to appear on the internet.
Mission accomplished.
Well, I had to come back, cause you Obama-ites gross me out. Here’s something for you:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/14/obama-breaks-bread-conservatives/
Ohh-Wee-Ohh-ohhhhhh-ohh
Ohh-Wee-Ohh-ohhhhhh-ohh
Toldja so, fugg faces.
RoaCH,
He isn’t eliminating ALL means to fight back, you still have courage and will don’t you? Don’t give them (the guns or your will to use them) up. These are precisely the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. Precisely. The Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs are no different (regardless of the fugging, rediculous shepples’ thoughts and naive beliefs on here).
But those tard’s won’t ever grow up.
Sheeples’.
I think I’ll come back from time to time, just to be a prikk. I wish stupidity was painful, but then there wouldn’t be too many of you on here. You’d all be balled up in your bed’s, writhing.
Look at the RepubliCONs. squirm.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Obama is a fool for thinking taxing the wealthy even more, is a good ieal. Or taxing buisness is a good ideal. You people remember that as you are getting laid off. Alot of theese layoffs are the buisness people cutting cost as they know Obama’s plan will destroy them. Enjoy the Obama soup lines. Idiots blame Bush, but the same idiots never heard of Barney Frank,Chris Dodd,Harry Reid, Nancy Peloci,Tedd Kennedy….. the real reason America is in the socialist tank. You wanna be like Europe… well get ready its coming.
No soup for you workinman (until you learn to spell anyway)!!!
hardworkinman,
Good post, the US has done well in the past ‘in spite’ of liberal Dimocrats, but now we shall see what we shall see….and it doesn’t look good for the working man.
As the Dims continue to pile the taxes on those that have the entrepreneurial spirit and courage take the risks of starting businesses, expanding businesses, and hiring folks there will be less and less seeing the risk/reward ratio as an incentive to try. Then there go the new jobs!
Every gotten a job from a poor man?
You know there IS medication that will help you all with your paranoid delusions.
So Box, you honestly don’t think the lack of regulation in the banking industry had anything to do with the crisis we’re in right now? Or that the corporations squeezing out the small business owner wasn’t responsible for the downfall of capitalism? It was Republican ideology and greed that got us here…not the other way ’round.
Roach, I saw where HR 45 will restrict our rights to own guns. And look who’s sponsoring it…Rep. Bobby Rush, the ex-Black Panther who advocated violence and thuggery but now doesn’t want law-abiding citizens to have the right to defend themselves from modern-day thugs.
I have an idea…why don’t you guys move out of the country to a place that you can have all the guns you want? I hear Columbia is nice this time of year.
“So Box, you honestly don’t think the lack of regulation in the banking industry had anything to do with the crisis we’re in right now?”—Mary
It was guys like Frank, and Dodd and Kennedy, et al., that screamed racism and the like every time the suggestion was made to tighten the lending requirements to people that could pay them back.
There is plenty of blame to go around but the Dims got it started and the Dim perpetuated it resisting credit reform.
Mary_Caruso, I’m too damn proud to be an American to hand the country over to socialist wanna-bes like you.
I’ve an idea, why don’t YOU get out? If you don’t feel a need to understand freedom or value it and you want a schitt country? Go love up and live in North Korea. They’re sure to accomodate the life you want.
Brave New World.
Too bad there’s no meds for your re-tardashun, you’re stuck with it.
I want to be free and in order for that to maintain, YOU have to want the same. Apparently, you’re not smart enough to handle freedom and individual rights.
When your man rescinds the executive orders, then I may have some respect, but until then, he still wines and dines with the “Neo-Cons” that you intellectual’s love to hate.
I’ve nothing to worry about, you on the other hand…
I’m trying real hard to be a “nice” guy, but all of you people just want to perpetuate madness. So someone has to be the bad guy, I’m good at that. Someone has to say the unpleasantry’s that you don’t want to hear.