CNN International’s coverage of Saturday’s fighting in Gaza included a rush of images: mangled civilians writhing in the rubble or primitive hospitals overflowing with the wounded. Missing from the montage was even a fleeting glimpse of the tens of thousands of Israelis who spent much of last week in bomb shelters, or any of the hundreds of rockets and other projectiles fired by Hamas. Over the past few weeks, as the “tahdia” (”period of calm” in Arabic) unwound, Israel’s policy has been to refrain from responding militarily to Hamas rocket fire. The purpose was to build a moral case for retaliating against a recalcitrant Hamas and limiting the international fallout that invariably follows any Israeli attempt at self-defense. But within minutes of the first Israeli airstrike, the Arabs were screaming “massacre” and the media had all but forgotten the serial assaults that provoked it. – Michael B. Oren, New Republic
Israel killed 280 people in Gaza on Saturday in retaliation against some rocket fire from Gaza into the Israeli neighborhood, which killed no one. Many of the 300 critically wounded will die in the days to come. The news of the outrage will spread and figure in the pronouncements of those carrying out acts of terrorism around the world in the name of Islam; and, tragically but understandably, their victim states and populations will speak in unison with them. The injustice of the past years is so stark that few will take into account that Palestine is divided, and that as long as this division remains, no peace negotiations with Israel can be fruitful. The Israeli policy of starving Gaza out through an economic siege since June 2007, when Hamas evicted the secular Fatah movement from the Strip, has actually forced the Gazans to resort to rocket fire on Israeli settlements. – Editorial, Daily Times, Pakistan
412 Comments
Israel violates the cease fire then proceeds to move in and slaughter hundreds of civilians. No, there’s no justification for this. That’s like the Nazis rounding up a bunch of Jews in a walled off ghetto in Poland then going in and slaughtering thousands because of the acts of resistance of a few Jews.
In 1938, Hitler and his henchmen conducted the “night of the broken windows” or Krystallnacht against the Jewish shopkeepers in Berlin … but no one said anything. Later Hitler attacked Holland and some other small European countries … again everyone remained quiet. Eventually Hitler attacked Russia and the West … only then did the World finally stand up and said “enough Hitler.”
Ditto!
I don’t get it either. Israel persecutes the Palestinians and then crys foul when they fight back. How is it in our national interest to keep supporting and pumping up Israel’s military?
Hamas firing hundreds of rockets into Israel doesn’t constitute a terrorist act? Hamas declined to re-sign the cease fire agreement, and instead started launching rockets. Tell me you wouldn’t do something about it if it was happening in your neighborhood.
Hamas has stated publicly they want Israel destroyed. Israel has every right to protect itself. This is on Hamas, not Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization and should be treated as such.
Things were too quiet for Hamas. Time to foment some outrage by firing some missiles into Israel, from bases in residential areas, knowing the inevitable result.
Hamas are the bad guys in this. They have bombed or used rockets on Israel for months and even years. The rockets are bigger and better; furnished and aided by Iran. Iran is the big winner in this battle. Hamas are killers and terrorists and will stop at nothing to get rid of Israel. I hope Israel invades soon with the army and clean out the rat’s nest. I don’t watch CNN, I don’t like their lib views.
Mess with the kitty, you’ll get the claw.
The USA has 4000 people killed on 9/11 and we start two wars. Israel kills a few animals after suffering causualty losses by terrorist in the 10s of thousands and a few idiots complain? Go Isreal, if we let you eliminate these terrorists, we may not have been attacked on 9/11. Israel is our ONLY friend in the middle east.
You go Israel. Hammas is the terrorist organization. Don’t forget it.
I’m tired of hearing about the poor Palestinians. They keep firing rockets and they target civilians. If you think the Palestinians are or ever will be our friends, you’re nucking futs.
Israel has a right to exist and they have a right to live without the threat of having rockets landing in residential neighborhoods.
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Pleefer
Posted January 2, 2009 at 7:41 am | Permalink
Yes, they cry foul, like the tough guys here cry foul when Iraqi “insurgents” fight back.
We’re always fucking right, right?
Mossad’d motto is “by way of DECEPTION, we shall make war”. LOOK IT UP.
Hamas = terrorist organization
Blackwater = terrorist organization
Mossad = terrorist organization
CIA = terrorist organization
ISI = terrorist organization
Man, the list could go on and on…
Do you people read anything but Time or watch anything but Hannity and fucking Colmes? O’Lielly?
Nah, your news source is Entertainment Tonight.
=======================================================
Right . . . I’ll declare that I want you removed from the planet, launch rockets into your backyard, then tell the world your the bad guy for fighting back.
While I agree Palestinians should be given their own country, terrorist outfits like Hamas are doing nothing but making that transition next to impossible. As long as these outfits attack Israel, Israel will fight back. If they would stop, sit down at the table, and hash out differences, they might get their land, but launching scuds into Israel neighborhoods is only accomplishing exactly what we’re seeing now.
And I read and listen to many news sources, and consider myself intelligent to make up my own mind. Your insinuations do nothing but show your own ignorance.
“If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Israel to do the same thing.”
President Elect Barack Obama
Deception IS the art of war, Pleefer; look it up.
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Pleefer
Posted January 2, 2009 at 7:00 am | Permalink
What do we need Israel for? For some Bible-believing bullshit? Their god wants baskets of children’s heads!?!?!?!?(2 Kings 10)
Freaks all.
_________________________________________________
I see that the Christian haters are out early.
“Israel has a right to exist ”
Not where it is it doesn’t.
The solution is simple. Israel should move.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html
Ya know what this is?
This is like someone on my street throws a rock over into the next block.
Then the people on the block over come and level my neighborhood.
Israel better start getting a clue. American tolerance for taking care of Israel is fading.
http://www.jewishtoronto.net/page.aspx?id=98064
Another war between folks who both think they speak for god? A war driven by religion, again?
Color me shocked…
These things are easy to find out. It’s easy to find out where the rockets are made. It’s easy to find out how many Israelis have really been killed, and how many Palestinians (sort of). So why don’t you drooling fucks find out instead of listening to radio propaganda or reading handouts from the infatada?
All of this fighting over a piece of land smaller than Houton, TX — or, twice the size of Washington, D.C. — I hardly think this fighting is about land…
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:25 am | Permalink
“Israel has a right to exist ”
Not where it is it doesn’t.
The solution is simple. Israel should move.
__________________________________________________
The Israeli claim to the land goes back a few thousand years more or less. Does their claim cease to have merit because they were driven off their land?
BlueJay, where do you suggest that Israel move to?
Using your logic, should all Americans except Native Americans be forced to leave the continent?
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ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:34 am | Permalink
Another war between folks who both think they speak for god? A war driven by religion, again?
Color me shocked…
=============================
Yeah kfg, those Muslim Palestinians think they own the world.
Oh wait, you didn’t mean it that way did you? :)
I don’t mean to seem hard.
And my own grandfather helped liberate a concentration camp.
But the thing of it is? LOTS of peoples have suffered through history. Why special dispensation and treatment for Israel?
XXX — In the case of Native Americans, the occupying forces said, “Hey, you all, lookie here, we are going to build this nice little reservations, where you can work at looking like all of us civilized folks…”
:-)
Well, ANCIENT ancient history bordering on legend is not my forte.
But if memory serves, were not the Israelites a historically aggressive people?
I guess that had consequences for them.
Funny how no one wants to point out Palestinian actions over the years. Don’t want to talk about how the palestinians wanted to take over Jordan and how many were slaughtered there. NOPE let’s just blame the Israelies, it’s easier.
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:40 am | Permalink
I don’t mean to seem hard.
And my own grandfather helped liberate a concentration camp.
But the thing of it is? LOTS of peoples have suffered through history. Why special dispensation and treatment for Israel?
================================
Because Israel is a democracy and a sovereign country.
Because Jewish people have long ties with the United States since before the U.S. was a country.
Because at one time we ignored the warning signs of hatred and the equivalent of population of Kansas, Nebraska and Missouri died because we ignored it.
Because Palestinians and their leaders are not a peaceful people and have sworn to wipe Jews of the face of the earth along with the nation of Israel.
And, a lot of other reasons too numerous to list here.
“BlueJay, where do you suggest that Israel move to?”
Somewhere less controversial.
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XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:39 am | Permalink
BlueJay, where do you suggest that Israel move to?
___________________________________________________
Still waiting for an answer.
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:50 am | Permalink
“BlueJay, where do you suggest that Israel move to?”
Somewhere less controversial.
__________________________________________________
Somewhere? Could you please point to that on a map? Let’s be a little more exact. Where would be “less controversial”?
“The Twelve Tribes of Israel formed the first constitutional monarchy in Palestine about 1000 B.C. The second king, David, first made Jerusalem the nation’s capital. Although eventually Palestine was split into two separate kingdoms, Jewish independence there lasted for 212 years. This is almost as long as Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.
Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in Palestine continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea.”
“When Jews began to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers in 1882, fewer than 250,000 Arabs lived there, and the majority of them had arrived in recent decades. Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country”
“The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said “Palestine was part of the Province of Syria” and that, “politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity.” A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria.”
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:40 am | Permalink
But the thing of it is? LOTS of peoples have suffered through history. Why special dispensation and treatment for Israel?
__________________________________________________
Why special dispensation and treatment for Palestinians?
Pro-con: Did Israel have cause to launch airstrikes?
Who the hell are we to say?
1) They have a righ to defend themselves
2) We have our fingers in too many pies as it is
I should note that I AM doing other things.
I don’t know X. I don’t know how it is that a particular religious or other creed NEEDS a dedicated nation state.
If you insist. How about the many tropical and largely unpopulated islands of the world?
Or, if the rationale is reparations for the sufferings of the last century, let those responsible afford them land.
No, I don’t mean Germany. And while we are on the subject of peoples badly treated, consider the treatment of the German people over the last several centuries. My family fled Germany on the pains of the thirty years war during which France laid waste to their land.
It was the victorious powers in World War I that made World War II. Let THEM give Israel a slice of land. A bit of Great Britain maybe. Or a nice slice of second hand stolen land in the American midwest maybe.
We are sixty years removed from the Israel experiment and it shows no signs of ever getting any better. Too, the blood feud gets worse not better with all the death and carnage and recriminations of trying to force people who hate each other to be neighbors. Let’s let them try something different or wash our hands of the whole thing.
2.5 million Arabs in the west bank, 1.5 million in Gaza, another million plus in Israel itself; a whole bunch more in Jerusalem, about 5 to 6 million Jews. Draw your own conclusions.
Did Israel have a right to respond? Yes Hammas has been stomping on Israel’s toes trying to bring a response. But the problem is that Israel has only one response and Hammas is using it to they advantage.
In the years since Hammas started the rocket attacks the death toll on the Israelis side has been 8 killed.
On the Palestine’s side it is several hundreds. As I said yesterday, “ If you kill a thousand children but also kill the one bad guy. Some dismiss the thousand children as the price that is paid to kill the bad guy. But if you kill a thousand children it calls to question whom is really the bad guy?”.
Israel is like the guy who has trouble with the alternator on his old Ford. In frustration his take a hammer and hits it. And the alternator works! So afterwards every time he has alternator trouble with the Ford he hit it with a hammer. But then he gets a new car and when he has alternator trouble with it he hits it with a hammer too. But it does not work for some reason as it did in the past. Israel has always found the over re-acting has served them well. But this is not another country that is attacking them it is people. As such it makes Israel the bad guy in the world’s eyes. You may have a right to kill the man that has killed your child but not to kill the entire town where he lives.
BlueJay,
The Israelis have inhabited that land longer than the Palestinians. Why should they be the ones who have to leave?
“Why should they be the ones who have to leave?”
Because they have the resources and international backing to avail them of it?
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writerdog
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:12 am | Permalink
But if you kill a thousand children it calls to question whom is really the bad guy?”.
__________________________________________________
Hiroshima, anyone?
My concern is that prophecy has a way of coming true on the efforts of people determined to make it so. There are people for whom a battle of Armageddon, as is prophesied for the region, is somehow a good thing. I’m not one of them.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:19 am | Permalink
“Why should they be the ones who have to leave?”
Because they have the resources and international backing to avail them of it?
__________________________________________________
Where do you get that? Let’s be specific here. There’s no place in the world that isn’t claimed by somebody except in Antarctica. Tropical islands? They’re all claimed. No country is going to give up a huge chunk of real estate to the Jews without a fight. It just doesn’t work that way.
The Israelis have as much and more right to claim the land as the Palestinians and they have the where with all to make their claim stick. And I might point out that Israel isn’t the only country in the world that backs it’s claim to land by military means.
If they have to move, why doesn’t that standard apply to a lot of other nations? Where does that end?
The Jewish people have been persecuted from day one. The Egyptians used them as slaves; Hitler slaughtered them by the millions; most Arab nations want nothing less than the total destruction of Israel. What would the Palestinian apologists do, march all residents of Israel into the sea?
JR, your “suggestions” make no sense. I suggest you check out Wikipedia concerning the Suez canal war of 1956 and the six day war of 1967. You just might learn something.
XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:39 am | Permalink
The Israeli native Palestinians’ claim to the land goes back a few thousand years more or less.
Does their claim cease to have merit because they were driven off their land?
—
I think you’ve put your finger on the problem, but you’ve neglected to point out that it’s a valid claim for both sides.
However, it’s also true that many of the Palestinians who were evicted from their homes, farms, and cities in 1948 had settled there during the establishment of the British Mandate (1920-1948), which in turn was an attempt by the British to make a home for those Arabs displaced by the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI.
Still, it seems to me that your question is still a valid one. Does the claim of a Palestinian whose family’s farm was taken by the new state of Israel in 1948 cease to have merit because they were driven off their land?
Australians should be forced to move out of Australia. The Aborigines were there first. Look how bad they get treated.
XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:16 am | Permalink
The Israelis have inhabited that land longer than the Palestinians. Why should they be the ones who have to leave?
—
Many Jews were driven out of the Middle East by Rome or by the Turks or by other circumstances, settling in Gaul or further north in Europe. Their families had been out of Canaan/Haifa for centuries when WWII broke out. Of course WWII uprooted millions of Jews in Europe, and at the end of the war where were they to go?
Many came here, many tried to emigrate to the British Mandate. Britain would only allow a handful of immigrants into the Mandate each year, and refused to increase the number. Jewish terrorists attacked British interests all over the world in retaliation, Britain in turn imprisoned a number of Jews it convicted of terrorist activity…who as it turned out tended to be Holocaust survivors. This of course led to a PR fiasco, and the new American Jews in particular banded together and forced the UN to create Israel.
However, these Jews’ claim on Israel is rooted in their history, and certainly in the Old Testament. By far most immigrants to Israel in 1948 were Jews whose families hadn’t lived in the Middle East for centuries.
“. No country is going to give up a huge chunk of real estate to the Jews without a fight.”
Witness sixty years of history for the people Israel displaced.
#
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:33 am | Permalink
I think you’ve put your finger on the problem, but you’ve neglected to point out that it’s a valid claim for both sides.
Still, it seems to me that your question is still a valid one. Does the claim of a Palestinian whose family’s farm was taken by the new state of Israel in 1948 cease to have merit because they were driven off their land?
_________________________________________________
And there’s the crux of it. There’s just no answer. There’s no “fair solution”. Absent a fair solution, we revert to what humans have always done throughout history; we settle it by force. This policy is acceptable for America. Why is it not acceptable for the Jews?
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:36 am | Permalink
Witness sixty years of history for the people Israel displaced.
__________________________________________________
That’s a shame. It’s hardly without precedent.
“The Jewish people have been persecuted from day one.”
WHO hasn’t?
Part of MY family were Palitinate Germans. Read sometime about THEIR suffering. They fled by the millions to America.
I think France has the Palitinate now. It was ceded to them after World War II probably.
The dispossessed Palitinites? moved on. They are not demanding that the region be stripped from France and reinstated.
I don’t mean to claim the rational high ground. But my concern is only for less blood and death. I don’t have an ideological stake in the fight.
A good part of U.S. support for Israel comes from a religious background in the Christian faith the Hebrews are “God’s chosen people”. Those who stand against and not with them is an effrontery to God as such it is seen as a matter of faith. The problem with that is that Israel acts not as Hebrews but as a country and people are not separating the two when Israel acts.
Bluejay makes the point that Israel’s history is one of blood letting and aggression. The Bible tells that God told the Hebrews to kill all living things within the land. Every man, woman, child and animal. Young and old, newborn and elderly. And they did in every town they came to they murdered the people there.
As to the Israelis and Palestine’s history, they were common subjects under the British rule and it was the Israelis doing the same things that the Palestine are doing today against the British. But the decision was arbitrally made to give the country to the Israelis when the British left. Both having an equal claim to the land less the blood history of aggression.
Of course, if the Palestinians don’t have the good grace to either leave lands they’d settled since 1920 or before, or just shut up, swallow their pride, and live like paupers next to their grandfather’s farm, pffft.
Shoot ‘em down like dogs, I say.
/sacrcasm
You’re right, it’s a huge problem with no easy as pie solution.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:31 am | Permalink
Ya know what this is?
This is like someone on my street throws a rock over into the next block.
Then the people on the block over come and level my neighborhood.
__________________________________________________
BJ,
You should read more carefully, it’s ROCKETS NOT ROCKS and they are aimed at civilians.
“Of the 375 Palestinians killed, most were Hamas militants, Palestinian medical sources said Tuesday. U.N. officials said at least 60 civilians were among the dead…..
On the Israeli side, three civilians and a soldier have been killed in rocket attacks from Gaza on southern Israel since the campaign began Saturday, military officials and police said.”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.israel.airstrikes/#cnnSTCVideo
Maybe the civilian deaths would even fewer if Hamas didn’t use them as a shields. The Palestinians wouldn’t be so poor if they didn’t waste their resources on weapons. Why does it matter how many Israeli’s are killed when Hamas has stated they want to wipe Israel off the map.
Tell me BJ or you other anti semetics, would you wait until your family is all dead before you decided to defend yourself?
For readers, the largely unknown Palatine people are NOT to be confused or associated in any way with the Palestine people.
Israel wants peace? They should exchange their areas with the areas of the pals, guess who’d be the aggressor then?
If someone came to your house and occupied it, but graciously allowed you to live in the shed out back, would you be greatful, or would you try and drive them out?
Mossad should be deemed a terrorist organization.
With the missle interceptors we’ve sold Israel, I bet only one out of hundreds even get through.
I think their kill rate may be higher with rocks than with their rockets.
Or anti-semits.
Nice try grmie. I’m not an anti Semite or an anti anything as to people because of race or religion.
I don’t believe EITHER in particular peoples being elevated to the status of divinely privelidged.
I saw that only about 18% of Israelies support another ground invasion of Gaza.
Sorry, CONs –
But you have only one person to thank for the rise of Hamas: George W (for worst president ever) Bush.
Israel, US Policies Aided Hamas Rise
http://www.truthout.org/010209K
Warren P. Strobel, McClatchy Newspapers: “The Gaza Strip wasn’t supposed to be like this. In August 2005, when Israel unilaterally withdrew from the narrow coastal territory, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon promised it would make Israel safer. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice hailed the move as ‘historic.’ Israel had left behind a political vacuum, however. That, along with decisions by Israel, the U.S. and Palestinian rivals inadvertently boosted the militant Islamic group Hamas into power.”
Launching rockets targeting civilians is a terrorist activity. No matter how many people are killed or not killed, it’s a tactic that causes terror.
Some of us support terrorism?
Terrorism is a word. It’s definition is VERY biased by perspective.
The Continental Army of the United States fought in “ungentlemanly” and unorthodox ways that the British army considered terroristic.
Isaac stole Ishmael’s birthright. In defiance of God or did HE command it? Or was Sarah just that big of a cunt?
Friggin’ bible.
And yeah, the art of war is lying. And the lies are on both sides.
Fuck Israel.
Monkeyhawk
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:00 am | Permalink
Sorry, CONs –
But you have only one person to thank for the rise of Hamas: George W (for worst president ever) Bush.
Israel, US Policies Aided Hamas Rise
http://www.truthout.org/010209K
————————————————–
This reads alot like the children’s book “If you give a Mouse a Cookie..”
In the thirty years war, King Louis of France decided that if France could not have the lush and fertile Palitinate, why he would just salt the Earth, burn the homes, etc.
XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:00 am | Permalink
Launching rockets targeting civilians is a terrorist activity. No matter how many people are killed or not killed, it’s a tactic that causes terror.
Some of us support terrorism?
—
Agreed, agreed, no.
However, it seems to me that the long-term solution is one of two options.
One, either the Jews leave Israel or the Palestinians leave the Middle East. Neither seems likely or een sensible.
Two, a political solution must be reached. This seems to be the answer to me, no matter how unlikely it seems right now.
You know, when Israel was established there were countries who voted against partitioning Israel into a Jew-only state. Countries like India and Britain. I think they were onto something. Creating Israel as a Palestinian and Jewish country would have led to quite a lot of pain in the short run, but I believe Palestinians and Jews would have arrived at a political solution to this problem much, much, much sooner.
XXX, aspirin factories get cruise missled, and many, many, many, many civilians are getting slaughtered in Afghanistan and Iraq…are you calling our brave soldiers terrorists?
Leveling entire neighborhoods (stuffed with babies and elderly and puppies) could be construed as terrorism as well.
Certainly had Palestinians and Jews lived side by side since 1948 the likelihood of rocks, rather than rockets, being lobbed into a neighbor’s yard today would be much higher.
Did Israel have cause to launch airstrikes?
It doesn’t matter. Hamas is playing this FOR world support and condemnation of Israel; Israel will do what it believes is in its interests and doesn’t give a damn about world opinion.
As long as Israel is surrounded by enemies dedicated to its utter destruction, Israel will do what has to do to survive. Postulating over whether Israel “ought” to be there is meaningless; their claim to the land is no more or less than any other, and probably more than most. Moreover, they ARE there, and that will not change. Get over it.
Hamas doesn’t want peace, for a number of reasons. First, it keeps Hamas in power, justifying its existance and keeping the flow of Iranian military assistance coming. Second, it keeps the average Palestinians distracted from the fact that the primary reason they are poor is that their government is too busy chasing an ideological quest than working to better their circumstances – and profiting all the while. Hamas works for Hamas’ best interest, after all, not the interest of Palestinians. Third, Hamas believes that by scuttleing a two-state peace agreement (something perhaps achievable), they can over time achieve their goal of destroying Israel demographically, by Palestinians/Muslims out-reproducing Israelis. Never mind those children will be dirt poor (thanks primarily to Hamas), and used as bomb-delivery vehicles.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5430133.ece
Israel should wait till their nuke is destroyed until they retaliate (sarc).
Carter has been the only president to face the issue impartially.
I wouldn’t disagree with that Phantom.
And we know what that got Sadat.
Again, if you give a Mouse a cookie…
Maybe the pals are so poor, because of the area they’ve been given to live in. What are their natural resources? Sand doesn’t count.
Pleefer
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:10 am | Permalink
Leveling entire neighborhoods (stuffed with babies and elderly and puppies) could be construed as terrorism as well.
—
I agree. I think what Israel is doing now is that they’re trying to communicate to Hamas that the price of lobbing rockets into Israel is much higher than they’d calculated. “The price has gone up, Hamas, get a clue…and stop with the rockets or there’ll be more.”
However, what Hamas is likely hearing is “Israel must be desperate since the price must come down when Bush leaves office: they’re weak.”
Which leaves Obama a lap of crap, no doubt, as this is a recipe for war. Not to mention it’s awful for Palestinians and Israelis.
Pleefer — Better check out your “biblical” references again. Isaac did not steal Ishmael’s birthright. Jacob stole ESAU’S birthright… That comes later in the story…
God(Yahweh) promises to both Isaac, and Ishmael that they will be fathers of many nations… This incessant battle has been going on for Thousands of years!!
I’ll get called “anti Semitic” again by the ignorant.
But it merits mention that we in the West get a very biased telling on history.
For instance? The Jewish people were not so much slaves to Egypt as they were a willing work force. But that is not the story we are told.
A fundamental problem here is that the Jewish people have stubbornly? nobly? clung to the concept of a nation as a group of people as opposed to a geographical region THEN turned that on its head and demanded a geographical region for a group of people.
I don’t know that there IS an answer. Too many hard headed folks with a stake in the fight and too many other folks with a deeply felt ideological bias.
Everybody is talking about “political” solutions, or “relocation” solutions… Why not sit these two divergent groups of folks down, and see if there are some “economic” solutions?? I firmly believe that between the Israeli’s and Palestinians, there can be an economic solution that can benefit both sides, and make armed attacks passe…. Any other thoughts on that??
This is the type of slow thinking that plagues this ignorant, dumbed down and extremely rascist country. Surely, we are a little better than this?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475126,00.html
These countries have been fighting for thousands of years and people who think Israel should just go in and kill every Palestinian they see as a resolution, is quite naive. For every Palestinian leader killed – there are 10 to take their place.
How many times have there been peace talks in the Middle East? How many times has violence broken out because of some truce being broken?
What I think is wrong is for the US to always ASSUME Israel is the victim.
As for Iran supplying weapons to Hamas – couldn’t the same argument be said about the US supplying weapons to Israel?
This is a no-win situation. There has got to be a way to make each and every Middle East country understand that the US is only interested in peace. Unless, that is not true?? Perhaps our hands are not so clean in this – are we benefiting in some way when Israel continues to fight? Is the profit of our weapon supply business that important to us or is it a bigger picture to capture the control of all the oil in the Middle East?
Middle East countries have nothing to offer the US except its oil. We need to get off the dependence of oil and start taking taking care of our own people and try to regain some resemblance of a thriving economic country.
So what we have is two claims. Neither claim takes precedent over the other. So it comes down to who can enforce their claim. That would seem to be Israel.
Right or wrong, that’s just a fact of life and the Israelis aren’t the first to back their claim by force.
We give $3 billion a year to Israel. Where are the dividends?
If the jews didn’t accept the loss of their kingdom for 18 centuries, why does gmc expect the pals to accept it after 60 yrs.?
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Israel – Origins and Evolutions
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Israel in Biblical Times
The difficult boundary, territorial, and resource problems associated with the presence of an Israeli state surrounded by Arab peoples can be understood only in the context of the long history of the Jewish people. In that history, a united, independent Israel has existed during only a few relatively short periods. Biblical writings indicate that King David first united the Jewish tribes around 1000 B.C.; his influence probably extended from the Gulf of Aqaba to the Euphrates but did not included Philistia – the vicinity of the present-day Gaza Strip. Following the death of his son Solomon some 70 years later, the kingdom split into two weaker states: Israel, conquered by Assyria in 722 B.C.; and Judah, conquered by Babylon in 586 B.C.
After a series of foreign rulers, Jews again experienced approximately a century of self-rule under the Maccabees between 166 B.C. and 63 B.C. Although the bounds of this kingdom extended into what is now western Jordan, they did not encompass parts of the Negev and Galilee that are now Israeli territory. The Roman conquest ended Jewish autonomy, and, after several Jewish revolts, Rome expelled many Jews from their homeland, which the Romans called Palestine. Most of the world’s Jewish population remained outside Palestine for the next 18 centuries.
OK here will be a really long one: The bloodless-bloody war, they just said on the news that many in Israel do not want a ground invasion because there would be many casualties. I guess it depends on which end of an air assault you are on as to whether there are many casualties.
We ourselves have moved more toward this tactic, we can bomb anywhere in the world in relative safety of our aircrews. We can stand off miles from the target and launch cruise missiles that can level an entire region. War for us and as it is for Israel is a blood-less war we do not see their faces, their blood or their children.
War is a messy, bloody and horrifying things and it should be. Else it would be committed as easily as ordering a coffee at a Starbuck’s. And with as much conscious thought or guilt in doing so!
To go to war should be as much scarifies for both sides else it has no mean to be at war.
I don’t know how many Star Trek fans are here, but there was an episode where there were two people whom had been at war for longer then the reason could be remember. But the Oxymoron of this war was it had become a “civilized war”. They had reached the point where there was almost mutual destruction of both people. So they adopted a solution, casualties were determined by a lottery done by computer. If you lot was drawn then you were to report to a machine in 24 hours to be put to a pain-less and quick death. If the citizen does not that open aggression would be renewed. LOL as he always seems to do, Captain Kirk put a stop to it as he saw the pointlessness of such a war. There was no need to solve their problems, as it was not a horrifying war. No blood, no destruction and no mess.
Blue Jay,
“The Jewish people were not so much slaves to Egypt as they were a willing work force. But that is not the story we are told.”
Yes, that is the story we are told… Read the last quarter of Genesis… Jacob(Israel) is dying with his sons due to widespread famine… They seek out Egypt’s protection, and offer labor in exchange for food and shelter… Remember the story of how Joseph, now holding high office in Pharaoh’s regime, recognizes the brothers who sold him into slavery?? The brothers didnt recognize him…
AFTER they had been there for many years, their work force rose to be the dominant labor force in Egypt… And they started to demand things from the Egyptians, that didnt have a lot to do with labor…
That was the beginning seed of the Exodus…
Let’s keep the story straight…. much easier to follow that way…
Chas, you got me. I stupidly went off the top of my head and put foot in mouth for it.
I’m going to read up today on it, as this thread has got my blood boiling again.
Thanks for the correction.
“So it comes down to who can enforce their claim. That would seem to be Israel.”
Be fair. The full support and weight of the United States has ALWAYS been on their side.
The why for that is ALSO based in religion.
My take is religion is a lousy blueprint for nation building.
One of the analysts in my office is Pakistani. He started a week after me, and within six months his wife had decided Virginia is a provincial backwater. Pregnant, she packed up their daughter and embarked on a “visit” to family they share in Toronto. This was in July, she’s still in Toronto, lol.
So my colleague flies to Toronto at least once a month. He’s a really funny guy, and he remarked lately that the US is lying when it says airport screenings are random. They are NOT random, he laughs, since he gets pulled aside 100% of the time he flies.
I would bet dollars to donuts that poor family never even came close to uttering the word “bomb.” Also, I bet they tried their dead level best to be as quiet as their children would allow.
Chas, you know what I mean though, right?
“with deception, we shall make war”.
Pretty adept at lying Israel is.
Pedant, I’m 100% with you. Truly sad. These people are ambassadors to the world for all of us. When this crap happens, we all look like fools.
Chas – I agree with your thought about an economic solution. But I’m afraid when both sides have their allies supplying them with weapons, what incentive is there for Israel and Palestine to sit down and really talk one-on-one?
Perhaps we should propose peace talks with the entire Middle East region and start including Iran in those talks. With George W. Bush leaving office, maybe there is a chance for President Obama to take a different approach to this problem and at least start talking to Iran!
mom —
Diplomtic endeavors are definitely the place to begin… Weave in the economic “light bulb” as the talks progress… I truly think once they can see an economic advantage, the weapons will become items on a shelf in the backrooms…
“A fundamental problem here is that the Jewish people have stubbornly? nobly? clung to the concept of a nation as a group of people as opposed to a geographical region THEN turned that on its head and demanded a geographical region for a group of people.”
Sorta like the Mayflower and pilgrims. And lot’s of dead Indians.
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:32 am | Permalink
Pregnant, she packed up their daughter and embarked on a “visit” to family they share in Toronto.
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Good grief, I think I’ve accused my colleague of incest. What I mean is that he has family in Toronto, and she has family in Toronto. What they share is that experience. Not family, ahem. (if you’re a Pakistani, apparently there are only 2 real options in N America: Toronto or Houston).
Regarding racial profiling what do the following have in common?
1972 Olympics
Iranian Hostage Crisis
TWA Flight 847
Pan Am Flight 103
1993 WTC bombing
US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania
USS Cole Bombing
9/11 Attacks
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XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink
So what we have is two claims. Neither claim takes precedent over the other. So it comes down to who can enforce their claim. That would seem to be Israel.
Right or wrong, that’s just a fact of life and the Israelis aren’t the first to back their claim by force.
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Exactly right XXX. Ultimately, it comes down to whether you can defend your turf, whether by your own strength, allies, treaties etc…
Those citing history to support a judgemental solution to todays problems will never arrive at a solution at all, and certainly not a “just” solution.
Like I said the other day. Suppose some folks in Oklahoma started lobbing missles and mortars at Wichita every week, killing a few dozen monthly.
Would you be talking about the Indians, slaughters buffalo, Bleeding Kansas, the Chisholm Trail, and the great Oklahoma Land Rush?
I don’t think so.
New Years Resolution Editor style. It would be nice if the Eagle Editors woke up yesterday morning and decided to no longer be pro terrorist and finally support Israel. Israel is dealing with dangerous terrorists everyday and I am not going to second guess them anymore. The writing in this blog today motivated me to look more carefully at the News web pages. After studying the issue today, Israel is in the right and Hamas is a bunch of terrorists. If people in Mexico were shooting rockets at Texas would you think it was acceptable for us to take defensive action? This is exactly what Israel is doing.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:31 am | Permalink
“So it comes down to who can enforce their claim. That would seem to be Israel.”
Be fair. The full support and weight of the United States has ALWAYS been on their side.
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Nothing new there, either. The American colonists would have been in deep $hit if France hadn’t sided with them. Britain and most of Europe would have been German states if we hadn’t come to the rescue in WW I and II.
“Be fair”
To who? War is never “Fair”. Somebody ALWAYS has the advantage.
The Arabs hate us. Why would we side with people who hate us? Does anybody really think that’s going to change?
“If people in Mexico were shooting rockets at Texas ”
I still think Oklahoma and Wichita was a little closer to home. But ditto.
Early American colonial history is not really a valid comparison here.
The earliest of land acquisitions in America came peacefully and in good faith (at the time) negotiation with the native peoples. The settlers were largely refugees from one persecution or disaster or other.
Preface : This isn’t our business.
Israel wants to be a nation at peace.
Hamas/Iran wants every Israeli dead.
Which would you support?
“The Arabs hate us.”
I don’t wonder why.
“The Arabs hate us. Why would we side with people who hate us? Does anybody really think that’s going to change?”
Maybe if by “us” you mean the USA. “If” we stop having every freaking US President try to be the PEACEMASTER in the middle east. Maybe if WE stop trying to get in the middle of finding THEIR solution. Maybe if we were more on the outside, like most of the REST OF THE WORLD, and keep our beaks OUT of the middle east (e.g. Iran, Iraq. and yes Israel)…..
We make it our problem. We become part of the problem, and set ourselves up to BE the problem to the arab/muslim world.
Part of the solution MIGHT be for EVERYone else to BUTT out….. Don’t fund or arm either side.
Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating.
Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis — 6,464 launched from Gaza in the past three years — deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people.
This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage — or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb — will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel.
For Hamas, the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians.
A point of view. Certainly not an unbiased one (of course, there IS NO SUCH THING as an unbiased point of veiw), but one which deserves to be represented.
Certainly, the Palestinians have valid grievances. But their stated goal which they seem determined to pursue, the elimination of the state of Israel, is simply not in the cards; it ain’t gonna happen. As long as Hamas benefits from the continuation fo the conflict (and the killing of its own citizens), this will go on.
While there is not moral purity here on either side, on the scale of things, this is not a close call. Hamas long since ceded any moral high ground.
“Why not sit these two divergent groups of folks down, and see if there are some “economic” solutions?? I firmly believe that between the Israeli’s and Palestinians, there can be an economic solution that can benefit both sides”
Why Chas, are you suggesting FREE MONEY would resolve this centuries old conflict?
I’m shocked I tell you. Shocked.
Oh, yea. Here’s the link if you want to read more:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/AR2009010101780.html
A lot of the Palestinians that are getting massacred in sweeping revenge attacks for a few almost meaningless acts of Hamas terror are CHRISTIAN.
The religious fundies that support Israel right or wrong seem to be completely unaware of the ten percent of Palestinians who are also Christian and who also die when Zionists steal their lands and level their neighborhoods.
It just shows their tribal mentality to hold on to a claim of property for 18 centuries. The American Indians have only been displaced for about 2 centuries and you don’ see them demanding all of their territory given to them by the Great Spirit.
But if the U.N. decided that they should have it, everyone of you would be up in arms.
I have no doubt if left on their own Israel and it’s 7.3 million citizens would cease to exist.
The Bush-CONs have their noses so far up Zionist butt they didn’t even peep when huge Israeli bulldozers levelling Palestinian neighborhoods also crushed an American, Rachael Corrie.
*****
RAFAH, Gaza (CNN) — An Israeli bulldozer killed an American woman Sunday who had been protesting its use to destroy Palestinian houses in Rafah.
The woman, Rachel Corrie, 23, of Olympia, Washington, was taken to a hospital, where she died of her injuries. She was a senior at Evergreen State College in Olympia but was not enrolled this quarter, the school said.
Since January, she had been working with the Palestinian-led International Solidarity Movement to protest Israeli actions in the occupied territories, said Huwaida Arraf, co-founder of the group.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/
But but but, Mr. Kia!
I thought GOD HIMSELF gave the land of Israel to Israel.
How can the Palestinians defeat God?
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American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:58 am | Permalink
We make it our problem. We become part of the problem, and set ourselves up to BE the problem to the arab/muslim world.
Part of the solution MIGHT be for EVERYone else to BUTT out….. Don’t fund or arm either side.
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Good point, AmWay.
But we have a strategic interest in that part of the world. What do you suppose would happen to us (America) if the Arabs shut off our oil supply from the mid-east tomorrow? And let’s not talk about conservation or alternate fuels, since that’s not an option right here, right now.
Would we go into the mid-east and take the oil? What if the alternative was to have our country fall into ruin and our economy collapse?
Amway, I agree that trying to use the past as a key to today’s conflict is pointless, but knowing the history of this conflict is essential to finding a reasonable solution to the problem. This region has been in conflict since the time of Christ; animosity is the order of the day when one takes that into account.
I know you’ll probably disagree with me on this, but I really think the combination of Obama and Hillary have a better than average chance of leveraging a peace accord agreeable to most parties involved.
That whole area is a nuclear bomb waiting to go off. If Iran goes nuclear, Israel is in real trouble. What’s the world going to do if Iran nukes Israel, as it’s a distinct possibility. Something needs to be done to stop terrorists in the region, and Israel is doing the best it can to both protect its people, and protect the country itself.
Hamas started this mess by lobbing scuds into non-military targets. That’s nothing more or less than terrorism. Israel is targeting military targets only. That’s called protective retaliation, not terrorism.
Just who DID settle Israel anyway?
I mean, most of the European and Eurasian Jews were killed right?
Isn’t it true that a great deal of Israel’s population originates in the United States? Many of them hold dual citizenship?
Pedant
“embarked on a “visit” to family they share in Toronto“.
“Good grief, I think I’ve accused my colleague of incest”
I have a sister-in-law that had been more a sister to me than sister-in-law for most of my life.
My parent unofficially adopted her when she was pretty young though not living with us until she was 16.
I often refer to her as my sister in conversation, which gets a confused look when my wife is with me and I refer to Barb as my wife’s older sister. It becomes like “I’m my own grandpa” kind of thing. I have known my wife’s family since I was 5 and her parents had been best friends with my parents for over forty five years.
That’s another thing, 7.3 mil., how many were living there in 1948. Did the U.N. conceive that Israel would become such an importer of more Zionist, and so expansionary?
I doubt it. They probably thought, give them this little piece of land that’ll hold them, who’d care?
“JMWalker
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:31 am | Permalink
The Jewish people have been persecuted from day one.”
Please. The jews invaded and conquered the lands of Israel killing women, infants, and children.
Of course, the Christian church doesn’t emphasize that point when they sing Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho.
But the jewish leaders after Moses, who led the people into the “promised land” (which was did not have a VACANCY sign up), had a scorched earth policy – they killed or murdered ANY race in fear they would mix with their own jewish blood.
The old testament and many other texts, provides many lessons of jewish war and bloodshed.
I’m not anti-Israel. But I am anti false history.
Had the United States not spear-headed and international coalition to cut off Palestine when they democratically elected Hamas, maybe Hamas wouldn’t see its only recourse as violence.
After all, they tried politics . . . and the same guy who invaded Iraq to “bring democracy to the Middle East” crushed the democratically elected Hamas government like a bug.
I never did have much say about Israel except that they are small, insignificant and unimportant but what gets to me is how everyone else makes a big deal about them.
So what is wrong about those people over there and why are they so emotionally retarded?
I agree that Israel is fully within its rights to take whatever actions necessary to defend its borders and its citizens from attack.
But. In the long run. If you chuck out a political solution, then there are only two options. They are not mutually exclusive.
Either Israel ceases to exist, or the Palestinians leave the Middle East. Either way, Hamas is robbed of the source of its power.
If there is no political solution, then it seems to me the only choice is that taken by the French in Algiers. The French couldn’t pull it off, though. Israel is too small to pull it off by itself. The world must be willing and able to salt the earth under Hamas (figuratively speaking; it’s not only Hamas that would have to go away, it’s also whatever would lead to the next Hamas) to make this option work.
In the long run, only politics can solve this. And Hamas is doing everything it can to sabotage a political solution, to drive as many wedges as possible everywhere it can. It’s been doing this for years, and quite successfully.
Just sayin’.
One thing is for certain, we will never ever have peace in that region as long as the Americans continue the policy of always looking past what Israel does wrong, and blaming everything on the Palestinians.
Our best bet for peace is to stay out of their affairs and let them handle it.
WTC attack ‘93 = FBI cooked the bomb, funded the operation and paid those who placed the bomb…then sold them out. But they (FBI) also lost a lawsuit by the victims and were found to be 68% responsible for the attack. Hmmm?
9-11 = the FBI lays NO claim that Bin Laden is responsible, they have ZERO proof of it. Hmmm?
Qui Bono?
“The Bush-CONs have their noses so far up Zionist butt they didn’t”
Leave it to CapnAmerica to raise the BLUE Team flag and blame the middle east problems on Bush and the republicans.
My gawd man! Can’t you ever look at a problem and not blame a political party? Don’t you know that’s what both parties WANT you to do?
Did you forget about Jimmie Carter putting his nose the midde east? And just about EVERY president since Israel was founded?
You remind me of the father in the movie MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING. His solution for everything was to spray Windex on it. Your solution is to blame republicans.
The mere fact that a government is Democratically elected doesn’t excuse the actions they take in threatening and causing violence towards others.
Being a Democracy doesn’t mean everything you do is pure and good.
A nation has every right to defened it’s self even if it is against a neighboring government which is/was democratically elected.
The US can not and should not support a party whose platform includes the destruction of another country.
“And Hamas is doing everything it can to sabotage a political solution”
Actually, Hamas, like the PLO before them, is doing everything in their power to force a political solution. Remember, those compassionate nations which got involved in the middle east AFTER the PLO started hijacking airplanes and killing people?
Even after they killed jews at the olympics in Germany, we had to put our NOSE into the middle of it.
It seems, blowing people and things up, actually DOES lead to a political solution.
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BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
Just who DID settle Israel anyway?
_________________________________________________
BlueJay,
There have been a lot of Jews in Israel since Biblical times. Palestinians never constituted a majority of the population of Israel.
The Mossad created Hamas to divide the Palenstinians. Hamas, PLO…divide and conquer. Genius.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html
“Palestinians never constituted a majority of the population of Israel.”
Excuse me? Maybe the census of 2000 BC didn’t include “Palestinian” on it as a block people could check.
But the jews murdered EVERYONE in their path to conquer the “holy land” “promised” to them…..
By the jewish own records: There were not jews in Israel until Charlton Heston led them into the promised land………
“But we have a strategic interest in that part of the world. What do you suppose would happen to us (America) if the Arabs shut off our oil supply from the mid-east tomorrow? And let’s not talk about conservation or alternate fuels, since that’s not an option right here, right now.
Would we go into the mid-east and take the oil? What if the alternative was to have our country fall into ruin and our economy collapse?”
Darn XXX, I’m almost afraid to say this, because you might shoot me or something, But the above sounds very George Bush of you……….
(now running like h-ll..)
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
“And Hamas is doing everything it can to sabotage a political solution”
Actually, Hamas, like the PLO before them, is doing everything in their power to force a political solution.
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No, you’re wrong. The goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel, and won’t happen via a political solution.
Also, the PLO had a political solution, a good one, offered up to it on a silver platter. When given a political solution, Yasser Arafat of the PLO said nope.
Not for a minute. Not for one minute do I think that Israel, the hijacked US government nor Britain’s crown are above staging false-flag terror to achieve whatever they need. The Machiavellian star shines bright with these people. The end does in fact, justify the means.
We are only spectators in the play of life, these corrupt people are the actors. They alone create the truth…just ask Karl Rove.
If someone held a gun to my head, I’d vote for whoever they told me to vote for… maybe more than once.
“The goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel, and won’t happen via a political solution.”
If you throw enough bombs, blow up enough suicide bombers, airplanes, world trade centers, and Americans:
You will get politicians from everywhere to support your cause – and promote political solutions.
Much like the protests in California on the definition of Marriage – despite the vote of the people.
“The goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel, and won’t happen via a political solution.”
Sidebar, you believe the above, but the jihad against the USA by terrorists who have sworn their lives to kill and destroy America, is just a myth?
The War on Terror is a joke? Obama can sit down with them and come up with a political solution?
Sigh. . . .Hamas came to power in Gaza largely because they had an effective network of social services to keep people alive who were blockaded from their employment. The empowerment of Hamas would not have been possible, had it not been for heavy-handed Israeli policies in the first place.
I am no fan of Hamas or its tactics, but the relative death toll of innocent civilians speaks more poignantly of the imbalance than I can. As much as some people find it easier to dismiss the lives of those funny-looking people with their alien religion and weird clothes, two wrongs still do not make a right, at least not to me.
Incidently, Ehud Barak justified Israel’s actions as part of the “war on terrorism” (no, I’m not making that up).
As to solutions (assuming there are solutions), I’ll save those thoughts for less trivial forums. I have work to do.
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 12:35 pm | Permalink
If you throw enough bombs, blow up enough suicide bombers, airplanes, world trade centers, and Americans:
You will get politicians from everywhere to support your cause – and promote political solutions.
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You do not understand Hamas. The accrual of power to them derives from not compromising. Israel’s destruction is their goal.
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Arafat’s ability to adapt to new tactical and political situations was perhaps tested by the rise of the Hamas and PIJ organizations, Islamist groups espousing rejectionist opposition to Israel and employing new tactics such as suicide bombing, often intentionally targeting non-military targets, such as malls and movie theaters, to increase the psychological damage and civilian casualties. In the 1990s, these groups seemed to threaten Arafat’s capacity to hold together a unified secular nationalist organization with a goal of statehood.[77] They appeared to be out of Arafat’s influence and control, and were actively fighting with Fatah. Some allege that activities of these groups were tolerated by Arafat as a means of applying pressure on Israel.[52]
In 2002, the Arab League made an offer to recognize Israel in exchange for an Israeli retreat from all territories captured in the Six-Day War and statehood for the Palestinians governed by Arafat’s PNA.[79] Shortly afterward, an attack carried out by Hamas militants killed twenty-nine Israeli civilians celebrating Passover including many senior citizens.[80]
We need to stay out of trying to find a solution to the worlds problem and in particular the middle east. I thought we agreed we were NOT the worlds policemen? We need to bring our military home?
“Peace for our time” was spoken by British prime minister Neville Chamberlain when the west gave the Sudetenland to Hitler to avoid war.
When everyone KNEW the ultimate goal of Hitler was domination of Europe.
No US President, to include Obama should think they are SMARTER THAN THE LAST GUY, and will be successful because they are from a superior political party – in the middle east.
Hillary my a-ss.
Pedant I don’t think I am disagreeing with you. But even terrorist will use politic’s to reach their goals.
Reports from around the world:
Thousands are protesting in the streets against Israel. Condemning Israel.
In Gaza, even moderates are joining RAGE against Israel.
Me thinks terrorist actions can lead to political solutions.
Let Israel loose to fix those terrorists. One less war we will need to fight. Israel knows how to deal with terrorists as Sadam knew how to deal with terrorists in Iraq. The USA just does not listen. If the USA supports Israel, Hamas will be gone.
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American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 12:27 pm | Permalink
Darn XXX, I’m almost afraid to say this, because you might shoot me or something, But the above sounds very George Bush of you……….
(now running like h-ll..)
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AmWay, I’ve already shot more than my quota of people in my lifetime. I gave that up a long time ago. Please don’t try to make me out as someone who might shoot you. I’ve never indicated that I would do such a thing.
And that’s not an answer to my question.
“If the USA supports Israel, Hamas will be gone.”
Why should we be supporting ANYone? The United States is broke!
U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
Source: Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs
Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?
We need to stay out of it!!!
Israel needs to finish the job this time and completely clean the stinking rats that are Hamas out.
Go in and search out the terrorist Hamas leaders and crush them.
Don’t take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.
“And that’s not an answer to my question.”
Dang XXX lighten up. I thought you had a leatherneck?
Anyway, your argument that the middle east is strategic to the USA is rational and has been used by the United States to justify it’s foreign affairs (reach) into just about every nook and cranny around the globe.
Some say the world is getting even smaller, with trade, communications, and air travel making the entire world strategic.
However, comma, pause for effect – we could just as easily side with the arabs to reach our strategic goals in the middle east. Israel has no oil.
That argument once worked for SEATO and a war in Vietnam. Domino theory and all.
“Go in and search out the terrorist Hamas leaders and crush them.”
Theres a problem with that. Rats multiply.
You take out the leaders of today, and the next batch rise up.
Studies were done in the US Prison system: If you took the top 10% of bad as-ses out of the population, would the population become more manageable?
The answer was: No. The next 10% rose up.
If your goal is to discrimately murder without trial the leaders of the Hamas democratically elected government – it won’t work.
You might just as well murder the entire race and everyone in Gaza.
Might be more efficient to do that with a gas of some sort….
Where’d everybody go?
Lunch 1.5 hours over? Back to working for the evil man?
Damn shame you can’t post all day long on your employers dime, heh?
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XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?
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Yep
Regular
Posted January 2, 2009 at 1:38 pm | Permalink
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XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?
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Yep
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So I guess we should all go outside and dance in the streets in support of Israel?
Ok, I get it.
The answer to the problem is the extermination of Israel.
That IS the stated goal of Hamas.
Looks like that’s what a majority of posters support.
The problem is that there have been so many tits for tats going back for centuries that it’s impossible to know who started it all. Either they find a way to coexist or we move everybody out and turn it all into a nuclear waste storage facility!
“The answer to the problem is the extermination of Israel.”
I didn’t post that. But I don’t think “the answer” is for the United States of America to say anything.
This entire thread reminds me of how Zbigniew Brzezinski pwned Joe Scarborough earlier this week:
“You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it’s almost embarrassing to listen to you.”
Watch it here:
http://tinyurl.com/a85vph
I don’t know… what would you do after dealing with an increase in rocket/motar attacks by Hamas of less than 200 a year (2006) to more than 3500+ as of December 01, 2008 in to the cities along the strip? And this was during a negotiated cease fire between Hamas and Isreal. Would you expect anyone to sit there and take it before they strike back?
XXX,
“Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?”
Nope, I don’t remember “the Palestinians” dancing in the street. I remember footage of a relatively few individuals celebrating that tragedy. I saw no evidence whatsoever that all or even a decent minority of Palestinians felt such animosity. Generalizations like that don’t help anyone.
#
ididit
Posted January 2, 2009 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
Would you expect anyone to sit there and take it before they strike back?
__________________________________________________
Of course I would! Terrorism is ok except when it’s not.
(?????)
“The answer to the problem is the extermination of Israel.”
The only poster on this thread to suggest wholesale slaughter is posting in FAVOR of Israel.
Granted, bawks is an idiot. But there it is.
I’m sorry. I just do not believe a certain group of people have a right to a certain bit of land because it is written in a book.
Fuck, no SUPER-FUCK, no ROBO-FUCK Zbigniew Brzezinski. He’s one of the problems and deserves nothing less than hanging from a gallows.
Here’s two videos for you Jed of Palestinians dancing in the street and celebrating the fall of the ‘Twin towers.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3u3rMIs5hw&feature=related
Nice thoughtful comment, “Pleefer.”
I’m sure Regular or XXX will come to a point sometime about the dancing in the streets…..
Jed
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:00 pm | Permalink
XXX,
“Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?”
Nope, I don’t remember “the Palestinians” dancing in the street. I remember footage of a relatively few individuals celebrating that tragedy.
_________________________________________________
Jed, what exactly is your point? Did I assign a number? Did I say thousands of Palestinians? Are you reading challenged, or just intentionally missing the point?
“I don’t remember “the Palestinians” dancing in the street. I remember footage of a relatively few individuals celebrating that tragedy.”
Then you’re saying that the footage wasn’t of people in Palestinian areas? So who do you think was dancing?
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:12 pm | Permalink
I’m sure Regular or XXX will come to a point sometime about the dancing in the streets…
==================
The Palestinians have been trouble makers as long as I can remember and a couple of thousands years ago as well.
I had not “Robo” F before.
I have heard:
Royal F
Super F
Double F
Mother F
and perhaps a few others I’m not recalling.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
I’m sorry. I just do not believe a certain group of people have a right to a certain bit of land because it is written in a book.
___________________________________________________
That would mean that anyone who holds title to their home has no right to it, since it’s written in a book.
So BlueJay, what makes the Palestinian claim to the land more legitimate than the Israelis?
“The Palestinians have been trouble makers as long as I can remember and a couple of thousands years ago as well.”
Regular, no disrespect intended, but I still am not getting your point. Maybe it’s just me.
“Palestinians” are an entire social/ethnic/religious/whatever group including men, women, and children……. We are talking a few million people in regards to the Gaza Strip.
“Does anybody remember Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11?”
I remember a few Israeli “movers” dancing in New York City that day too. Or don’t you remember?
Let me help you.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/record_9-11.jpg
#
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:12 pm | Permalink
I’m sure Regular or XXX will come to a point sometime about the dancing in the streets…..
__________________________________________________
Dude, you’re a little late, LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKj6uJ5Mt4&feature=related
oh well…
“The problem is that there have been so many tits for tats going back for centuries that it’s impossible to know who started it all.”
It doesn’t matter now who started it.
You can not ask a nation and it’s people to passively accept annihilation. You can not ask them to sit by and have missiles lobbed at them, even if the Palestinians are relatively incompetent at it. And, you can’t expect them to put up with being killed and maimed by suicide bombers when eating lunch with their families.
When you threaten even a non-aggressive creature with extinction they will fight back and surprisingly aggressively.
Israel needs to win this and win it decisively, to the point Hamas can not fight back, or will even want to simply to survive.
“holds title to their home has no right to it, since it’s written in a book.”
I believe the United States Supreme Court gave that right away to developers.
Developers with a “righteous” plan are more deserving of property in the United States of America than the title holders.
In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[9] On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence and this was followed by a war with the surrounding Arab states, which refused to accept the plan. The Israelis were subsequently victorious in a series of wars confirming their independence and expanding the borders of the Jewish state beyond those in the UN Partition Plan. Since then, Israel has been in conflict with many of the neighboring Arab countries, resulting in several major wars and decades of violence that continue to this day.[10] Since its foundation, Israel’s boundaries and even the State’s very right to exist have been subject to dispute, especially among its Arab neighbors. Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and efforts are being made to reach a permanent accord with the Palestinians.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
—————————-
BJ if you can read this is just a small synopsis of why Israel is where they are. If you are curious to know the entire story and history try researching it and expanding your knowledge on a subject you are very ignorant on.
The state of Israel has always wanted peace and has tried to live in peace with the Palestinian state. Nothing doing. So when they are attacked then they will fight back. No surprise there.
How stupid can you be if your only weapon is a grounded missle thrower which you have imbedded in a residential neighborhood and your enemy has an air force capable of bombing you from the air.
XXX
I will admit that if you were standing here next to me, you would hear the sound of air containing your message passing over my head.
I need to research this further.
It is my sense that many, maybe even most Israelis are nationals or descendants of nationals of other countries.
It’s not as if they would have no place to go.
I just have this perception of Israel as a sentimental sort of hobby country. It seems to me a great loss in blood and treasure for the sake of indulging them.
My ancestors just adapted and moved on when they lost their land.
Too nice a day for this.
#
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:19 pm | Permalink
“holds title to their home has no right to it, since it’s written in a book.”
I believe the United States Supreme Court gave that right away to developers.
Developers with a “righteous” plan are more deserving of property in the United States of America than the title holders.
________________________________________________
ACK! You’re right! I hadn’t thought of that.
#
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
XXX
I will admit that if you were standing here next to me, you would hear the sound of air containing your message passing over my head.
___________________________________________________
Which message? I’m not trying to be a smart a$$ here, just wondering what you don’t understand.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm | Permalink
I need to research this further.
It is my sense that many, maybe even most Israelis are nationals or descendants of nationals of other countries.
It’s not as if they would have no place to go.
_________________________________________________
Yeah, that worked real well for about 7 million of them back in the 40s.
It’s not like the Palestinians don’t have a place to live. Israel granted sovereignty a couple of years ago. Did the Palestinians build a nation? No, they spend their time importing weapons and lobbing rockets at Israel.
I don’t claim to be “thoughtful”, I shoot from the hip, I’m into brevity and try to be as terse as possible. I’m crass and cuss like a trucker and I’m unapologetic for it. I read tons and don’t take the “necessary time” to adjust and form my thoughts or sentences. I say what I know and feel, regardless. At times I embarrass myself, but it’s short-lived and I’m on to the next abashment.
Brzezinski is a pile of trash. His book, “The Grand Chessboard- American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives” spells out everything that’s going on right at this very moment. I suggest you read it and understand that your man, Obama has this same agenda in mind as his main advisor was Z-big. Hell, McCain loves the man too, his son (Ian) was his main advisor too!
Imminent Domain.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm | Permalink
It is my sense that many, maybe even most Israelis are nationals or descendants of nationals of other countries.
__________________________________________________
BlueJay, some math:
If Israel was formed 60 years ago, most Israelis living there now were probably born there. At least the majority.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Eminent Domain…damn.
“Israel granted sovereignty a couple of years ago. Did the Palestinians build a nation? No, they spend their time importing weapons and lobbing rockets at Israel.”
Very true XXX. Maybe Iran and Syria instead of smuggling arms into the occupied territories and Gaza, and sponsoring the war had been building industry, schools, hospitals, and jobs the Palestinians wouldn’t be wanting their tribal lands and holy places.
But maybe not…
Not sure how long I’d hold a grudge if Oklahoma decided to occupy southern Kansas – and kicked us all out. Even without any churches I give a shit about.
*** NEWS FLASH ***
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh! BOOM!
(AP*)
It has been reported that a mortar round has just landed in the City of Wichita, Kansas. The explosion appears to have hit a home near Claude Lambe Park on Williamsburg St.
The terrorist group Okie from Oklahoma is claiming responsibility for the attack. No word on injuries or deaths.
*Associated Accounts Payable
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:49 pm | Permalink
“Israel granted sovereignty a couple of years ago. Did the Palestinians build a nation? No, they spend their time importing weapons and lobbing rockets at Israel.”
Very true XXX. Maybe Iran and Syria instead of smuggling arms into the occupied territories and Gaza, and sponsoring the war had been building industry, schools, hospitals, and jobs the Palestinians wouldn’t be wanting their tribal lands and holy places.
But maybe not…
Not sure how long I’d hold a grudge if Oklahoma decided to occupy southern Kansas – and kicked us all out. Even without any churches I give a shit about.”
Maybe we should ask the Comanche, Kansa, Osage, or Pawnee how long a grudge should be held.
American_Way
Posted January 2, 2009 at 2:49 pm | Permalink
Very true XXX. Maybe Iran and Syria instead of smuggling arms into the occupied territories and Gaza, and sponsoring the war had been building industry, schools, hospitals, and jobs the Palestinians wouldn’t be wanting their tribal lands and holy places.
_______________________________________________
Exactly! Manufacturing follows cheap labor, and I’m betting there’s lots of that in Gaza and the West Bank. What business doesn’t want is a lot of terrorists building bombs all over the place and trying to pick fights with the neighbors.
*** NEWS FLASH ***
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
(AP)It has been reported that a missle has just landed in the City of Wichita, Kansas. This time the explosion appears to have hit a stadium and buildings on Maple Street.
*** NEWS FLASH ***
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Now. Let’s all be patient now. We don’t want to overreact.
Remember, the Oklahoma folks used to live here.
Their ancestors came across the border during the land rush.
*** NEWS FLASH ***
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
*** NEWS FLASH ***
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
I’m sure there is a rationale explanation for the Okie’s actions.
Let’s all pray and wait for the United Nations to issue a condemnation.
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Now let’s not strike back. We don’t want the rest of the world to protest our actions in the street.
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Hey! I got it! The SOLUTION TO ALL OUR PROBLEMS with the Okie’s!!!!
Let’s let IRAN and Osama Bin Laden start a peace process which will end the attacks on us! (you know, like the palestinians and arabs feel about the US putting our noses into their world).
Ya know, after reading this thread, despite our differences (and they are myriad) there are some thoughtful folks here.
We may not agree, but we are thinking. And that’s a good thing.
Uh, well, except for Pleefer. He still has the tinfoil firmly in place . . .
” Manufacturing follows cheap labor”
BTW, wasn’t that part of the solution in Northern Ireland? Catholics and Protestans (sp).
“Which message? I’m not trying to be a smart a$$ here, just wondering what you don’t understand.”
I was not getting your point to the fact that yes some (maybe many) Palestinians danced in the streets following 911.
Of course that made me angry. But I didn’t know if you are/were suggesting we react differently toward the entire Palestinian population because of that fact.
Israel is an illegal state bought and paid for by Zionists. Having said that, most states are illegal in that they rid themsleves of colonial rule…mostly illegally or by threats, in the eyes of the colonial power. To say that Israel is reacting too stongly is to forget that the Brits were bombed badly, but not nearly as deadly or devastating as the RAF bombed Germany. Nowadays there is a revisionist line that the RAF and USAF Bomber Commanders were war criminals and that Gen.Spatz and Air Marshall Harris should have been tried for war crimes in Nuermberg….well that’s what some German military historians are claiming. The Palestinians have to accept the idea of realploitik and rely less on slogans.
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Darn! That one hit my grade school teachers house and took out her entire family!
But we shouldn’t do anything rash………
Historically, you know.
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Dang it! They hit a church full of people with that one!
But hold on a cotton pickin’ minute. Just hooold de horses here – we STOLE this land from the native Americans.
They have EVERY right to bomb us because we are illegal
Bombs away!
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOM!
Hamas terrorists remind me of cheaters in high school. A friend of mine, I will call him Abdul, spent 2 hours writing crib notes and figuring out a way to cheat on a history exam when I was in the 11th grade. I spent about 3 hours studying. We both got about the same grade. Hamas needs to work hard not cheat and they will do better. Send the kids to school and teach them something besides how to build a bomb and blow up innocent Israelis. Instead, Hamas wants to destroy not build, stinking terrorist, scumbags. You go Israel and nuke Hamas rubbish back to the last century. RR
I just chalk it up to unfortunate timing, “GMC70″ –
But it was funny you posted:
“…despite our differences (and they are myriad) there are some thoughtful folks here” right after “American_Way” posted half a dozen
“Woooooooooooooooooooooosh!BOOMs!“
Perhaps if Israel recognized the elected government of Hamas then they would have gone the way of the IRA, became pencil pushing bureaucrats. Instead they didn’t recognize the government, walled off the city, and tried to starve the populace. Meanwhile Hamas did what got them voted into power, they smuggled in food and medicine through a tunnel. Israel responded by blowing it up, ending the ceasefire. Hamas responds by launching rockets which killed four people, Israel responds by killing nearly 400 civilians.
Israel uses the same policy as Bush, and I suppose they think the results will be any different? Judging by some of the comments the cowardly conservatives would just sit back and starve while being oppressed, and gladly take any punishment for actions of their neighbors.
Meanwhile America gives Israel $3 billion to purchase weapons to wage war with an impoverished nation. That makes us as culpable as the nation furnishing arms to Hamas. And just because Fox News reports that it’s Iran doesn’t make it so. The media also reported Iraq had nukes.
Americans will not be publicly laughing, dancing, clapping, and celebrating the deaths of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, the way Palestinians laughed, danced, clapped, and celebrated on 09/11/01. But Americans will perhaps celebrate justice, that Palestinian Muslim terrorists who continue posing a dangerous threat to both Israelis and Americans everywhere, are meeting a violent but just retribution, and will perhpas feel a little bit safer as each terrorist departs Earth expecting to meet those 72 virgins in eternity.
“parkay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
expecting to meet those 72 virgins in eternity.”
Parkay is just mad because she wanted to be number 54 but something “came up” the other day to change her plans.
Hey GMC, Happy New Year mother fucker. May your 2009 be miserable and full of shit, piss and death.
Typical Parkay, telling lies. The PNA condemned the attacks. You know who celebrated? Parkay’s friend Troy Newman who said the attacks were a result of abortion. Newman, and his fellow goons, loved the idea of using the attacks as a means to promote their own agenda.
You’ve not been reading this thread parkay.
Support for Israel is hardly universal.
You’re welcome, Pleefer. Kisses and hugs. You are what you are. At least you’re consistent.
MH, yea, it’s just unfortunate timing. And while it’s not the most thoughtful way to make a point, AmWay does have a point.
GMC70
Posted January 2, 2009 at 5:06 pm | Permalink
You’re welcome, Pleefer. Kisses and hugs. You are what you are. At least you’re consistent.
MH, yea, it’s just unfortunate timing. And while it’s not the most thoughtful way to make a point, AmWay does have a point.”
His hat does a good job of hiding it most of the time though…
By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
Israel’s actions in Gaza are justified under international law, and Israel should be commended for its self-defense against terrorism. Article 51 of the United Nations Charter reserves to every nation the right to engage in self-defense against armed attacks. The only limitation international law places on a democracy is that its actions must satisfy the principle of proportionality.
Woosh BOOM
“Huh? Someone is firing rockets at us! I wonder why?
What’s that? They say we stole their land?
Hmm, maybe we should not have done that. Treating them badly as a sideline is probably also not a good idea. It was not these people who perpetrated the mass killings. I guess it is not fair they should have to pay for it.
Ya know what? The whole idea that we have some sort of right to this land IS a bit silly. I mean, we left it long ago. Maybe we should think about doing something different like buying some land somewhere in a more friendly neighborhood.”
Heh heh.
Did you even watch those news casts that I linked to? Look man, it’s FOX and CNN, are they tin foiler’s too? I guess you do work for the court, not the people, so actually doing any work is quite an inconvenience for you. You are what you are, I suppose.
#
GMC70
Posted January 2, 2009 at 3:06 pm | Permalink
Ya know, after reading this thread, despite our differences (and they are myriad) there are some thoughtful folks here.
We may not agree, but we are thinking. And that’s a good thing.
Uh, well, except for Pleefer. He still has the tinfoil firmly in place . . .
________________________________________________
GMC70,
I was going to agree with you, but then I read the last few posts….
Still, this has been one of the most civil threads I’ve seen in a long time. Congrats bloggers (with a few exceptions).
“My ancestors just adapted and moved on when they lost their land.”—BlueJay
Is anyone really surprised that they gave up and quit so easily.
Must be a genetic thing.
Sorry….I couldn’t help myself.
Ok, I’ve changed my mind. I know that we all are scared about Iran “getting nukes” and all that. And we’re terrified about the Palestinians possibly being able to strike Israel’s nuke facilities. So I relent, let us rid us of this Arab/Persian stinking menace once and for all. Let’s bring the fire of prophecy to light. I’m ready to nuke everyone. From Russia to NY, from Qatar to Korea from Australia to Wichita, let’s set the World a-light. Let’s get this thing going before I change my mind again. If we can get rid of half (or more) of the stupidity in this World, we will be in Heaven on Earth. Hallelujah.
So God, Great Architect of the Universe, bring upon the fire. Please deliver us from all evil, real or imagined. Please help us to destroy ourselves. Please, Lord, Father of all creation, PUSH THE BUTTON. I pray this in your Glorious name and ask of this gift of your Almighty love. Amen
Pleefer, just for you man
BURN, BABY BURN
BURN, BABY BURN
BURN, BABY BURN
BURN, BABY BURN, BURNIN’
SATISFACTION, CAME IN A CHAIN REACTION
DON’T YOU HEAR, I COULDN’T GET ENOUGH
SO I HAD TO SELF-DESTRUCT, I TELL YOU
WELL, HE GROWS ON, RISING TO THE TOP
AND EVERYBODY’S GOING STRONG
AND THAT IS WHEN MY SPARK GOT HOT
I HEARD SOMEBODY SAY
BURN, BABY BURN, DISCO INFERNO
BURN, BABY BURN, BURN THAT MOTHER DOWN
BURN, BABY BURN, DISCO INFERNO
BURN, BABY BURN, COME BURN THAT MOTHER DOWN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opY4qcidFk
Pleefer, maybe youre not a disco duck. So here’s
another:
Can you feel it baby
Can you feel it, here it comes
Feel it, Feel it
Fire, Fire
Something’s burning
Something’s burning
Something’s burning
http://www.ilike.com/artist/Kenny+Rogers/track/Something’s+Burning
O.K. I’m chillin’
The goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel, and won’t happen via a political solution.”
Sidebar, you believe the above, but the jihad against the USA by terrorists who have sworn their lives to kill and destroy America, is just a myth?
Neither would fully believe they could destroy either Israel or the U.S. that is not there intent with their actions. The intent is to do exactly what they have accomplished, cause us to react knowing our reaction would be one that is over reacting and heavy handed. This affirms their claim that both of us are intent on declaring war on the Moslem people.
It can be maddening, they are like a guy who gets in your face and keeps calling you names and talking badly about your family. You know his intent is to get you to swing on him and that if you hit him it is you would will be arrested for the reaction. But he will keep it up until you do hit him following you as you walk away. Hammas knows that a few rockets will not kill many or destroy Israel. But if they keep it up they will finally react and will bode badly for Israel instead of Hammas.
When Israel finally does do a ground invasion it will cost them many of their soldiers but far more innocent men, women and children and not many of Hammas.
Interesting mix of opinions; lots of bs from a few. What is interesting, though, is the pro/con argument isn’t following party lines, as one would expect. It would be nice to see that spill over into other areas of politics. Then real discussions could progress, real solutions might be possible.
??? — My last post is “awaiting moderation” for no apparent reason. Seriously, no expletives or anything even socially objectionable.
Oh well. Here’s why they blame us:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/aid2008
I do need to point this out: if you followed the links, you’d see that Pleefer’s “tinfoil” source was ABC news. Now, they’ve been sloppy, lying, lazy and uncritical tools of power before, but they’re not exactly lunatic fringe.
Just because the man is prone to conspiratorial thinking and extreme conclusions doesn’t mean he never has anything worthwhile to contribute.
Why are Libs so pro-terrorist?
I suppose my game of missle command on wichita was over the top, but I was trying to make a point in my own humorous way.
” nice to see that spill over into other areas of politics”
I seem to recall a discussion on Illegal Immigration which crossed party lines.
Why are Libs so pro-terrorist?
I guess this isn’t terrorism:
http://www.monde-magouilles.com/photos_guerre/gaza3.jpg
Here is the official State department terrorist list.
You’ll find Hamas on there.
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/fs/37191.htm
All you Libs who support Hamas are supporting terrorists.
Rage
Posted January 2, 2009 at 7:42 pm | Permalink
Why are Libs so pro-terrorist?
I guess this isn’t terrorism:
——————
It’s called war.
But do go ahead and provide support for terrorism. I’m sure when Obama becomes President, he’ll find your position interesting for a U.S. citizen that supports terrorist organizations.
Heh, Reggie, as Aggie would say, no more soup for you!
So, you don’t deny supporting terrorist organizations, eh Rage?
Funny how the conservatives can denounce an entire country as being members of a terrorist organization. Must be nice living in such a black and white world.
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10272062.html
Things were a bit civil until reg popped up and inserted his brand of pure negativism.
I always find the most interesting threads (and posts) to be those where everyone posts their opinions and thoughts without comments or judgments of fellow posters. Those end up being the threads where civility leads to being able to learn from differences.
We do have a great bunch here on WEBlog! And, we all have scroll wheels. ;-)
#
JMWalker
Posted January 2, 2009 at 8:50 pm | Permalink
Things were a bit civil until reg popped up and inserted his brand of pure negativism.
——————-
Tell your buds not to support terrorists and we’ll be fine.
Hey Reg!
Which terrorists are you talking about here.
There’s bunches of em.
I’d say kill them all and let God sort em out, but I need to know the rules of engagement within my fields of fire.
#
Regular
Posted January 2, 2009 at 7:43 pm | Permalink
All you Libs who support Hamas are supporting terrorists.
_________________________________________________
Damn, I wish I could argue that point. But it would seem that most of the Libs do indeed support terrorists.
Or is it that they hate Jews?
Would anybody like to make a case that Hamas isn’t a terrorist organization? I mean, targeting civilians and all….
As I have said earlier, terrorism is a word subject to selective interpretation.
#
Rage
Posted January 2, 2009 at 7:42 pm | Permalink
Why are Libs so pro-terrorist?
I guess this isn’t terrorism:
http://www.monde-magouilles.com/photos_guerre/gaza3.jpg
_________________________________________________
Sorry Rage, but a picture off the internet doesn’t tell us anything. Terrorism? Collateral damage? Car wreck? We don’t really know, do we?
I would argue that it is the Israelis who are the terrorists.
They get hit with a few rockets and they call an air strike?
How many people does it take to launch one of these rockets?
How many people does an air strike kill?
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:14 pm | Permalink
I would argue that it is the Israelis who are the terrorists.
They get hit with a few rockets and they call an air strike?
__________________________________________________
You’re kidding, right? You are so twisted.
Like I say X, terrorism is a word.
The cause of Hamas is no less valid than the cause of Zionism.
Well, not to me anyway.
Intellectual honesty, do you have a religious bent in this?
They get hit with a few rockets and they call an air strike?
Let the next one hit your house and kill your only child.
How would you feel then?
RoaCH
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
They get hit with a few rockets and they call an air strike?
=================================
Try over three thousand rockets in Hamas’s latest attacks.
A few rockets, heh – yeah buddy…
And I see that on this and other threads, the diseased Jimmuh has reached into his box of nics.
RoaCH
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
They get hit with a few rockets and they call an air strike?
Let the next one hit your house and kill your only child.
How would you feel then?
—
Yes, let’s reduce this to a simple search for retribution.
The thing that kills me about you guys is that you act as if revenge is some kind of higher emotion, one that Americans should seek for its own sake. Like it’s a good thing. You never ever modify your attempt to instill the desire for vengeance in others, either. You never say “look, feel the hate in your gut, then use it to do xyz.” It’s always just “feel the hate, ain’t it good?”
What are you, twelve?
Regular, it MAY well be over 3000 attacks on Israel. But it only takes ONE to hit Bluejays house.
That was my point.
BlueJay, I’ll ask you again.
How many rockets are enough?
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:54 pm | Permalink
Yes, let’s reduce this to a simple search for retribution.
_________________________________________________
No, let’s reduce it to stopping rocket attacks on civilians.
XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:58 pm | Permalink
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:54 pm | Permalink
Yes, let’s reduce this to a simple search for retribution.
_________________________________________________
No, let’s reduce it to stopping rocket attacks on civilians.
—
Do you think that’s possible?
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Yes, let’s reduce this to a simple search for retribution.
The thing that kills me about you guys is that you act as if revenge is some kind of higher emotion, one that Americans should seek for its own sake. Like it’s a good thing. You never ever modify your attempt to instill the desire for vengeance in others, either. You never say “look, feel the hate in your gut, then use it to do xyz.” It’s always just “feel the hate, ain’t it good?”
What are you, twelve?
===================================
When a terrorist group like Hamas uses rockets supplied by Iran, a terrorist state, the question asked in the thread header “was Israel justified ‘with cause’ in their response.”
The answer is a definitive, undeniable and irrefutable “yes, Israel was justified.”
And I must ask you again X.
Do you have a religious stake in this fight?
You see?
I do not believe in religious prophecy beyond the capacity of interested parties to CAUSE it to be so.
The answer is a definitive, undeniable and irrefutable “yes, Israel was justified.”
No argument from me. But if Iran is the true sponsor, the spark that ignited the rocket attacks -that is where the ultimate solution will be.
Iran is hiding behind a puppet state. Attack Iran.
How far do you think Israel can go before it loses international support?
How far can they go before the rest of the world says “you know what, supporting these guys unconditionally results in more cost than benefit to my country.”
Do you see any limit at all on Israel’s actions? If so, what is it?
YOU attack Iran Jimmuh.
Swing both your crutches at them. It aint my fight.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:00 pm | Permalink
And I must ask you again X.
Do you have a religious stake in this fight?
==========================
You must think XXX is really stupid to fall for such a lame statement.
We support Israel, as a nation, why? Because of the jewish lobby and jewish support given to our politicians? Is there a concern about oil flow?
But we let half a million blacks die in Darfur. We have no complaints to blog about the 2.5 million homeless and women and children being raped in Darfur every day.
Onward Christian soldiers…….
Junior must be swigging the beer again, he’s getting irrational and stupid.
Do you see any limit at all on Israel’s actions? If so, what is it?
You stated it: world pressure.
But if it was US being attacked, would we give a ship about world opinion?
RoaCH
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:03 pm | Permalink
But if Iran is the true sponsor, the spark that ignited the rocket attacks -that is where the ultimate solution will be.
Iran is hiding behind a puppet state. Attack Iran.
—
What evidence does anybody have that attacking Iran would cause Hamas to stop rocketing Israel?
What if it’s Saudi Arabia that supplies Hamas with arms? What if it’s Iran that supplies rockets, Saudi Arabia who supplies small arms, and Syria who supplies ammunition?
Attack them all?
#
Regular
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:26 pm | Permalink
Tell your buds not to support terrorists and we’ll be fine.
===================================================
Brain dead one, feel free to read my posts at the beginning of this thread. Popping up in the middle of a blog, with no idea what has transpired, shows just how ignorant you really are.
#
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:59 pm | Permalink
Do you think that’s possible?
__________________________________________________
I do. And I think that we’re going to see it happen in the next few days.
“And I must ask you again X.
Do you have a religious stake in this fight?”
The question is an honest one.
MANY Christians have the idea that Israel must be defended at all costs.
Even if they AINT going to heaven.
I am not a Christian. To me, Israel is a collection of fundamentalists holding on to long dead history.
America derives NO support or gain from supporting or defending Israel. They are a liability to us.
#
JMWalker
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:09 pm | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted January 2, 2009 at 9:26 pm | Permalink
Tell your buds not to support terrorists and we’ll be fine.
===================================================
Brain dead one, feel free to read my posts at the beginning of this thread. Popping up in the middle of a blog, with no idea what has transpired, shows just how ignorant you really are.
=====================
What did you say? Stop mumbling…
What evidence does anybody have that attacking Iran would cause Hamas to stop rocketing Israel?
What if it’s Saudi Arabia that supplies Hamas with arms? What if it’s Iran that supplies rockets, Saudi Arabia who supplies small arms, and Syria who supplies ammunition?
Attack them all?
Whichever is the SOURCE of the weapons and support provided to those attacking a nation are guilty.
Until you deal with that SOURCE, you will not permanently stop the rocket attacks.
I do. And I think that we’re going to see it happen in the next few days.
=================================================
That would be nice. Sorta like the excursion into southern Lebanonen (sp) stopped those rocket attacks for a few months?
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:00 pm | Permalink
And I must ask you again X.
Do you have a religious stake in this fight?
__________________________________________________
BlueJay, I answered that in my 10:47 post. Just so you don’t strain yourself, the answer is NO. And I thoroughly resent the question.
Now, you answer my question:
How many rockets is enough?
RoaCH
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:13 pm | Permalink
Until you deal with that SOURCE, you will not permanently stop the rocket attacks.
—
I agree that you must deal with the root cause or you won’t stop rocket attacks.
However, in my opinion attacking the dealer isn’t attacking the root cause. There are lots of arms dealers, after all. The root cause is deeper than that.
But I agree: it must be identified and dealt with before the attacks will stop.
XXX
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:11 pm | Permalink
#
Pedant
Posted January 2, 2009 at 10:59 pm | Permalink
Do you think that’s possible?
__________________________________________________
I do. And I think that we’re going to see it happen in the next few days.
—
We’ll see. Ohmert is far better off launching a ground war with Bush in office than Obama…but if Israel starts a ground war it will put a lot of pressure on the region AND the region’s biggest Western friend, the US.
It would have to end very quickly, imo.
I do not see a 10:47 AM or PM post for you X.
Admittedly I am distracted helping my son with Tomb Raider.
X?
Let’s say some people have been in your land for 60 years. They won’t leave. They are aggressive on you and your people. They have the weight and power of the most powerful nation on the planet on their side.
What do you do?
Bluejay I believe our NATION blindly supports Israel. No question about that.
We need to ask why that is. But without automatically saying it’s a “christian” thing.
Because it is certainly more than that.
Israel spends more in the USA on propoganda than on any other country.
Israel has spys in all aspects of American life. They have been caught spying on our military. Why is that?
Israel probably has American politicians on the payroll, blackmailed, or otherwise persuaded to support them.
No American President would DARE to speak negatively or fail to provide support to Israel.
We provide Israel more billions in military sales and aid than the budget of many nations.
Why is that?
Reg — You said Israel is justified… BUT, the question in the thread is did Israel have CAUSE to launch air strikes…
Having a cause may or may not be justified… Hypothetical — You have a bank robber cornered in a bank…. You have a CAUSE to bring the bank robber down… BUT, would you be justified to take him out with artillery from a tank???
Destroying Gaza’s infrastructure, and the humanitarian crisis/cost caused by same, could be considered an attack on civilians. Not to mention the civilians that are getting blown up by the Israeli missles.
Even if they take out the rockets launch sites, they’ll just resort to strapping the bombs on and improve on their precision.
I thought you RW’s were saying a few yrs. ago, “We have to invade Iraq because they’re funding suicide bombers against Israel.” Now you’re saying Iran must be attacked because they’re the source.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:22 pm | Permalink
I do not see a 10:47 AM or PM post for you X.
Admittedly I am distracted helping my son with Tomb Raider.
X?
Let’s say some people have been in your land for 60 years.
_______________________________________________
Who’s land? By what right do Palestinians claim the land? The UN doesn’t recognize any Palestinian nation. They do recognize Israel.
Phantom
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:40 pm | Permalink
Destroying Gaza’s infrastructure, and the humanitarian crisis/cost caused by same, could be considered an attack on civilians.
__________________________________________________
So Phantom, how many rocket attacks on civilians do you think Israel should endure before they do something about it?
And WHO is the UN X?
Well mostly, it is the United States.
Their headquarters is in the US. They are largely funded by the US.
By what right do the Jews claim the land?
BlueJay, I’ll ask you again:
How many rockets is enough?
Crickets chirping
“By what right do the Jews claim the land?”
“How many rockets is enough?”
Well gee X I don’t know.
Neither me nor you is in the fight.
Now if someone came into my neighborhood, took my house or farm and said they had a God given and world supported right to do so, I’M thinking I would fight back.
Guess one rocket is too many, and a thousand not enough.
The U.S. should just wash their hands of the mess, even though they had a hand is creating it.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:52 pm | Permalink
“By what right do the Jews claim the land?”
__________________________________________________
“The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.”
________________________________________________
Now I’ll ask again:
“By what right do the Palestinians claim the land?”
That may well be justification to you, but not if you’re a palistinian.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:56 pm | Permalink
“How many rockets is enough?”
Well gee X I don’t know.
________________________________________________
BlueJay, what kind of answer is that? You think it’s ok to rocket civilians? That’s pretty cold.
BlueJay
Posted January 2, 2009 at 11:47 pm | Permalink
And WHO is the UN X?
Well mostly, it is the United States.
Their headquarters is in the US. They are largely funded by the US.
__________________________________________________
Now you sound like a Republican.
Phantom
Posted January 3, 2009 at 12:08 am | Permalink
That may well be justification to you, but not if you’re a palistinian.
___________________________________________________
Has nothing to do with justification to me. That’s the answer to the question.
Mere mortals can’t argue agains Divine Rights!
Way past bedtime.
Goodnight all.
My thought exactly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
“By what right do the Palestinians claim the land?”
That would be the deeds on their houses, before they were bulldozed to make way for foreign settlers.
wow, a first. bj actually said he would fight back, but only because somebody touched something that was his. didn’t matter to him that weeks earlier they had taken everything from his neighbors and had already killed them all
#
Rage
Posted January 3, 2009 at 1:48 am | Permalink
“By what right do the Palestinians claim the land?”
That would be the deeds on their houses, before they were bulldozed to make way for foreign settlers.
_________________________________________________
I would suspect that Jews have deeds to their houses, too.
We have two conflicting claims here. Israel has the muscle to back their claim and as the old saying goes, possession is nine points of the law. No precedent for that in history, huh?
“Israel has the muscle to back their claim ”
They continue to do so at the peril of losing the support of the US.
I don’t owe them anything. I can’t imagine any other American really does either.
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 8:41 am | Permalink
“Israel has the muscle to back their claim ”
They continue to do so at the peril of losing the support of the US.
__________________________________________________
I seriously doubt that. I haven’t seen anything in the news about Israel losing American support. We may complain, but our relationship with Israel isn’t going to end anytime soon.
” The cause of Hamas is no less valid than the cause of Zionism.
Well, not to me anyway.”
But nobody cares what you think BJ, because you don’t think. And fortunately most people won’t listen to or be persuaded by diseased minds such as yours, so folks like you just die out. Thank goodness.
Boxlock20
Posted January 3, 2009 at 11:32 am | Permalink
” The cause of Hamas is no less valid than the cause of Zionism.
Well, not to me anyway.”
But nobody cares what you think BJ, because you don’t think. And fortunately most people won’t listen to or be persuaded by diseased minds such as yours, so folks like you just die out. Thank goodness.
______________________________________________________________
Like anyone cares what YOU think BL20.
You are rivaling other right-wingers lately for being the chief idiot of the WEBlog.
“so folks like you just die out. ”
I believe you’ll beat me to THAT there bawksy.
Read the thread. I’d say support for Israel is fading.
Just like most things you care about.
Good!
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 11:39 am | Permalink
Read the thread. I’d say support for Israel is fading.
—————————————————-
Big problem with the liberal mind set.
Hang around with people that think just like you and believe it is mainstream.
Just like the idea that the election of Obama is some kind of revolution.
Unblinking support for Israel is not so much a mainstream concern for the American people as it is just not thought about.
Stories such as this may change that. They have for me and many others.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 11:39 am | Permalink
Read the thread. I’d say support for Israel is fading.
___________________________________________________
Drawing any conclusion from this blog would be a serious lapse in judgment.
Again, I think it goes to most people just don’t think about it that much.
I tend to believe that if presented an honest presentation about Israel and asked to go fight for it, MOST people would decline.
“Drawing any conclusion from this blog would be a serious lapse in judgment.” — XXX
——
Good one, XXX! Oh, so true. We do all have our opinions and they are all as good and as useless as the next.
A test –
Monkeyhawk
Posted January 3, 2009 at 12:25 pm | Permalink
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
It all comes back to that old saying,
“Pick your enemies carefully, for they are whom you will eventually resemble.”
Look what the survivors and progeny of the Warsaw ghetto have done to the Palestinians. Forget that Israel’s founders — look up Golda Meir, Ben Gurion, Moshe Dyan, et al) were terrorists in 1948 and when they won some 750,000 Palestinians simply disappeared. As Dyan said at the time, “you will not find them (Palestinians) in the history books-their villages don’t exist- their text books don’t exist-they are simply not there.”
For nearly a thousand years the Turks (i.e., the Ottoman Empire) ruled a land were Jews and Palestinians may not have liked each other but lived side by side in relative peace. After WWI the Brits took over; just one more colony in the empire’s crown.
The crown jewels were lost after WWII and the Jews got the idea maybe they weren’t all that welcome in Europe so much and giving them the 20th Century version of 40 acres and a mule, the United Nations sliced off a hunk of the British Empire and the Palestinians (who were rightly leftover Ottoman subjects) freaked out. (You know, how in the 50s Americans in some neighborhoods freaked out when a Jew wanted to join a country club.)
(That’s Part 1)
Hmmm.
Continuing the test, here’s Part 2
–
I have a book from 1949 accounting the Israel/Palestine compromise the Israelis agreed to and the Arabs rejected: two homeland states with Jerusalem an “international city,” along the lines of what Vienna was then, and Berlin. (Okay, not a perfect model as it worked out, but it seemed like a good idea in 1948.)
The Arabs thought they were winning at the time. And by the time the Israelis won a guerrilla (read, “terrorist”) war, the Israelis were in no mood to compromise; they figured they won it all.
Hard feeling between these people have been going on for centuries but it’s wrong to look at the Middle East these days and say “THIS has been going on this long.
More like 60 years or so. Still, long enough for resentments of the Yom Kippur War, or the ‘72 Olympics, or last year’s pizza parlor suicide bombing or last months strafing by fighter jets…
I really think the Israelis and the Palestinians don’t know what they’re fighting for anymore. They’ve forgotten why they got into it in the first place and neither side wants to back away from all the blood and treasure expended for… for what?
It has been amazing to watch in a lifetime how our society went from anti-semitism, to Semitist Rule!
Wonder if that can be attributed to a very successful campaign by the jews to turn sentiment?
Tests 3 and four didn’t come through –
Here’s another modification:
—–
Monkeyhawk
Posted January 3, 2009 at 12:30 pm | Permalink
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Test # 3 –
Not that they’re alone. Here in the states the same people who [complain] about “the liberal media,” “New York values” (both code words for “Jewish”), and gripe about crooked “New York” bankers (again with the Jew thing), and “decadent Hollywood” immorality (I think you get the point), turn around and blindly defend anything Israel does just so they can take a Holy Land Tour with their church group.
Looks like the word that rhymes with rich and refers to a female dog is the culprit.
Israeli troops are moving into Gaza. Say goodbye to the terrorist cowards Hamas. With some luck, maybe Israel can wipe them out, or at least seriously cripple them.
Hope so XXX…
Not like Hamas didn’t antagonize Israel with over 3000 rocket attacks and 1500 mortar attacks.
#
Regular
Posted January 3, 2009 at 1:04 pm | Permalink
Hope so XXX…
Not like Hamas didn’t antagonize Israel with over 3000 rocket attacks and 1500 mortar attacks.
_________________________________________________
There comes a time when enough is enough. Hamas has brought this upon themselves. Too bad so many people are going to have to die to settle this. But Hamas wouldn’t negotiate. Now they and the Palestinian people will pay the price.
Let me know what you find out, Monkeyhawk.
I will only conclude this much: either the Wordpress moderation software is poorly-written and unpredictable, or the people tweaking the moderation parameters have no idea what they’re doing. I suppose both is possible
I have no reason to believe this post will show up either, but we’ll see.
Hamas has dealt a death blow to any hope the Palestinians had for a separate country for quite awhile. I seriously hope other countries don’t attempt military retaliation on Israel. That could explode the whole region, and that could bring nukes into the mix
Wow, linking to the NY Times, by itself, is getting moderated! What’s up with that?
This is the sad (and stupid) reality of the situation:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=%22Israel+Weighs+Goal%3A+Ending+Hamas+Rule%22&btnG=Search+News
And one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I’ve had no problems posting.
I have at least 8 here that are all awaiting moderation.
Hey, if I post in chinese, will I be moderated?
???????????????????
Shoot, I can’t even post in chinese.
Ah, got it! The NYT URL contains the word “as*sess” and apparently the mindless software fixated on the first three letters. Pathetic.
Yep. I just typed as*sas*sinate and it got caught in the moderation filter. How silly.
Very silly. And we all lose, including The Eagle. When a rational poster like Rage who brings much of interest can’t bring it here, will that reduce or increase the “hits?”
Mine are being held but I didn’t use that word, Rage. In fact, there are no objectionable words at all in my post. Unless….one more try.
—
Here’s something I rewrote several times, trying to get it to post last night.
—
In my opinion, a lot of US support for Israel can be traced back to WWII.
If you were Jewish and survived the Holocaust, where could you go? The British would only allow 15,000 total immigrants per year into Palestine, and going “home” often meant living next door to the very neighbors who had turned you in to the Bad German Guys, or who now lived in your house, or who had stoned you or your family, or who had been members of the Nazi party, or whatever. Lots of reasons not to want to return to your home in Europe or Russia.
So they came here, to the US. They brought their wealth and their talent, worked hard, became successful here in the US, and gave money to Israel. And elected representatives who were friendly with Israel, sometimes who focused mainly on our relationship with Israel. In the late 1960s this began to pay off for them as the US and Israel became very close.
Israel has managed to weave itself very successfully in the web of American politics, no question about that.
Hah, I used Bad German Guys instead of N*z*s and it went through… as the N word.
wtf?
I have a headache, but it appears the N word can get you moderated.
Pedant, did you change the comment in order to achieve success in getting it posted?
A political discussion board where the word Na zi can’t be used. Well, the quality of discussion is bound to go down.
You know, as*sessing the moderation situation, it sure doesn’t have anything to do with ti*tillation. Maybe the Eagle shouldn’t pu*ssy-foot around, but it doesn’t take a private di*ck or someone who graduated Magna C*um Laude to find a way around it.
It’s like using a pis*tol to train a Shi Tzu.
Wow. What a bunch of Na zis.
lindainks55
Posted January 3, 2009 at 2:35 pm | Permalink
Pedant, did you change the comment in order to achieve success in getting it posted?
—
Yes, I changed N*** to Bad German Guys. Even though N*** was used again just a few words later, the post went through.
So there’s some really hozed up filter in whatever rules the moderators have written in their WordPress code here.
Israel wanting to take advantage of bush’s wanning days.
Phantom
Posted January 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm | Permalink
Israel wanting to take advantage of bush’s wanning days.
—
Yep. I have to give Israel credit for courage here. The reason is that any action against Hamas in Gaza short of “decisive” will invite further attacks. Very quickly they’ll have to force Hamas to a negotiating table, or I believe Israel will do itself more harm than good in the long run. I realize that they feel they have no choice now, in the short run, with their citizens dying at the hands of terrorists, but credit where credit is due.
“Decisive” is not so easy to achieve these day, but if that were my goal I’d prefer to have Bush as POTUS. So again, I agree.
By the way, if a ground war is what Israel’s been planning for all along, then I believe the answer to the OP question, “Pro-con: Did Israel have cause to launch airstrikes?” is Pro.
Israel will definitely maximize the application of ground forces if they first soften things up with airstrikes. If you’re trying to get in and out of Gaza as soon as possible, then airstrikes are definitely called for.
GAWD: Awaiting moderation is a software glitch.
The Israelis have their work cut out for them. There’s nothing worse than urban warfare. The fighting will be building to building. It’s going to be very difficult to root out Hamas in a city of 1.5 million. Israelis are at a disadvantage in that they’ll do everything they can to minimize civilian causalities, something that Hamas won’t bother with.
I wish them no success in their invasion.
I started out not knowing a whole lot about Israel.
The more I see, the less I like.
They are bellicose. And they have nukes. It is not a stretch to see a time when they become a problem not just to the region but the planet.
I see the anti-semites from the Radical Left are in full force in attacking Israel’s right to exist.
Big surprise there.
Killed in Gaza so far 450 + Palestinians.
Israel’s dead number 4
4
Looks like they like they’re ok with genocide so long it is them practicing it.
The Palestinians ought to be angry with Hamas for visiting this on them.
How DARE the Palestinians fight for freedom and dignity. The nerve!
“I see the anti-semites from the Radical Left are in full force in attacking Israel’s right to exist.”
More like you don’t think the Palestinians have the right to exist.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted January 3, 2009 at 6:45 pm | Permalink
“I see the anti-semites from the Radical Left are in full force in attacking Israel’s right to exist.”
More like you don’t think the Palestinians have the right to exist.
_________________________________________________
Mary, the Israelis want the rocket and mortar attacks to stop.
Sounds to me like you don’t think the Israelis have a right to exist. You’re starting to sound like BlueJay.
The Palestinians are people like you and I. There is danger everywhere. The good bad guys they elected provided for them and protected them. They built schools, made sure citizens had health care and food and housing. How many of them know what is going on? When their families were safe they went about life — making a living, helping with homework, repairing what needed it, seeing a movie… Now, they are being killed, their infrastructure demolished and probably can’t do much more than attempt to protect their lives.
The real victims are those who are just like you and I.
Americans, pay attention. This is the best argument against a theocracy.
#
lindainks55
Posted January 3, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Permalink
The real victims are those who are just like you and I.
_________________________________________________
the real victims are Israeli and Palestinian civilians. Hamas has made them all victims.
I have never said Israel had no right to exist.
” Moderation” is eviscerating my posts.
When does it end X? The killing and death I mean.
Oh yeah, when everybody around Israel knuckles under.
I wish Ed was still posting here. I miss getting a view of Israel that isn’t filtered by the media.
No one has said they like or support Ha mas either.
I’m not going to fight the software. Later.
Hamas has made them all victims.
Partially true.
“My problem is with their supposed divine claim on a piece of real estate that tends to get people in their vicinity killed.”
Let’s see if that gets through…
Ok this moderation thing is getting silly.
How ’bout this Eagle? Give us a list of the words we are now not allowed to use?
Ok how about this…
” Do you imagine, X, that it will EVER be different?
This ________ will just fire the next. And so it goes.”
The word in the blank was an 8 letter word starting with m that means a lot of people are deprived of life.
I’m outta here too, this typing it four different ways before it’s accepted is silly. It isn’t like editing where you get a better version. In the attempt to figure out what will or won’t be accepted you lose what you wanted to say.
Eagle editors?
Tech support?
Watch the hits plummet unless you fix this moderation thing to some semblance of sanity.
I’ll send an email.
I sent an email earlier. I included a comment that is still ‘being moderated,’ and will be forever since none of them ever make it out of moderation limbo. No objectionable words, just a blockade that tells me they prefer we not post here.
Well, now there are 2. :) You have a cc:
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:14 pm | Permalink
“My problem is with their supposed divine claim on a piece of real estate that tends to get people in their vicinity killed.”
__________________________________________________
Um, BJ, the Palestinians claim is devine, too. Goes back to that “which son inherits” thing.
Oh yeah, they’re not “filthy Jews”.
Oh yeah, they’re not “filthy Jews”.
Unclear who’s being quoted, but it’s no one on this thread.
Funny, I’m not getting the moderated thing. Maybe it only happens to anti Semites, LOL!
Whateever, troll.
#
Rage
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:48 pm | Permalink
Oh yeah, they’re not “filthy Jews”.
Unclear who’s being quoted, but it’s no one on this thread.
__________________________________________________
It’ll give you something to think about.
Who has to await moderation? :D
#
Rage
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:50 pm | Permalink
Whateever, troll.
________________________________________________
Name calling? Oh, isn’t that special!
Who has to await moderation? :D
Those who create long, thoughtful posts instead of just hurling insults.
Name calling? Oh, isn’t that special!
Naw, just reality.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:06 pm | Permalink
I wish Ed was still posting here. I miss getting a view of Israel that isn’t filtered by the media.
————————–
He got captured on a trip to Palestine and is still being held prisoner by Hamas.
#
Rage
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:53 pm | Permalink
Who has to await moderation? :D
Those who create long, thoughtful posts instead of just hurling insults.
—————–
More like long, boorish posts.
Name calling? Oh, isn’t that special!
P.S. The absurd irony of that comment just hit me.
I believe you are the only one to use that phrase X.
There are probably people still alive in that region who remember it before Israel was created.
A few of them anyway. THEIR claim on the land is a little more verifiable. And why did the “Israeli” official I heard commenting today seem to have a French accent?
“Escape from Hamas”.
Interesting special on Fox tonight going about the son of a Hamas leader, who has converted to Christianity and now is speaking out.
Quick research that is moderated from being posted here says that 21 percent of Israeli Jews were acutally born there. About a third of Israel was born in America or Europe.
So it DOES seem to be a hobby country that exists to serve a faith.
I have never had a post go to moderation. I’m not sure why that is but I do try to keep it clean.
BJ should get out more. That wasn’t a French accent. It was Hebrew. History doesn’t agree with your account BJ. Can you verify what you are trying to put out as truth or are you just whistling dixie again?
BJ why did the Jews originally leave their homeland? Check it out. This could take you a while but I think you are up to it.
#
Rage
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:56 pm | Permalink
Name calling? Oh, isn’t that special!
P.S. The absurd irony of that comment just hit me.
_________________________________________________
Yes, you’re a little slow.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm | Permalink
I believe you are the only one to use that phrase X.
___________________________________________________
If you’d deflate a little, you’d notice that I didn’t attribute it to anybody. It was a common term back in the day when the rest of the world left the Jews to die at the hands of the Germans.
Things have changed. Now we want the Jews to die at the hands of the Arabs.
It’s Hamas stated goal to destroy Israel. Nice folks you side with.
Well okie they were on the losing end of various and sundry wars. It happens. It has happened to many people including my own ancestors. What’s your point? Or do you have one?
BJ before you knock yourself out trying to determine the history of the Jews I’ll help you out. The bible is a great history book if you actually read it. The people in the old testament are very real. The lineages are very accurate. The numbers are accurate down to the person.
Start reading in Exodus and Numbers and you will see the journey of the Isralites to where they are currently living. You will be able to see the number of travelers involved. You will see the tribes that were established and the purposes of each tribe.
This has nothing to do with Christianity which is picked up in the New Testament. It is foretold in Isaiah but the history is what should interest you. The Jews were there first.
Scholars don’t argue about the historical significance of the bible. It would follow then that you and I shouldn’t either.
Israel has been very generous in their offerings to the Palistenians.
Moderation is really hard on anything but the most bland of posts.
I once respected Israel as a country that took on all comers and survived. But I have come to realize that they are not the best of neighbors.
And BJ if to the victors go the spoils as you just said why are you having such a hard time with the Jews occupying the West Bank and Gaza?
Just as I would give little credence to a science book from 2000 years ago, I have little interest in historical/political treatments two millenia old and told from ONE point of view.
I don’t have any Jewish neighbors so couldn’t speak to the accuracy of your statement. Since I have never lived in Israel or Gaza I just can’t comment on this.
BJ I know this will come as a surprise but most history books are written by one person. But of course you are in error about this as well. The Old Testament has many authors and many contributors and if you have ever studied it you would know this.
Interesting that you would write off history 2000 years old but believe Cosmos when he give you facts about something that happened over a million years ago. Selective ignorance it would seem.
This is a real flaw in the liberal makeup that they won’t allow themselves to be challenged to read something that falls outside their narrow minds.
Your loss. Maybe your clergy friend Chas can tell you why the bible is such a great source of historical facts.
“The Jews were there first.”
So they say. It’s their book.
I think Chas might take you to school on the Jews were there first.
Either way, it’s their book.
I said one point of view. Not one person.
The bible also says the world was created in six days and that an old man loaded two of every sort on a boat. Do you consider that historical fact?
Precisely why I told you to start in Exodus. Did you miss that part. Genesis is the story of the creation. And BJ Chas couldn’t take the least knowledgeable person I know to school on anything. He has shown his ignorance of biblical knowledge many times.
What we see on TV today will happen again.
And again. Today, someone will kill because their father or mother was killed. In a few years, a loved one of today’s victim will revenge.
Gotta go BJ but do just like you did the first time I ever blogged with you:
You said if I would go see algores movie you would read Josh McDowells ‘Evidence That Deserves a Verdict’. I did and you didn’t. I knew your mettle then. I don’t expect you to read or investigate anything that doesn’t fit within your very narrow minded view of the world and life. Your loss.
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BlueJay
Posted January 3, 2009 at 8:46 pm | Permalink
“The Jews were there first.”
So they say. It’s their book.
___________________________________________________
Is there another book that disputes that?
“So they say. It’s their book.”
BJ, do you know the relevance of the Old Testament to Islam? Say, the first 5 books?
Things have changed. Now we want the Jews to die at the hands of the Arabs.
You do? Ick.
If there was a simple solution, or even one side to blame, what is happening now wouldn’t be happening.
“BJ, do you know the relevance of the Old Testament to Islam? Say, the first 5 books?”
No. But I do know that Christianity is a derivative of Judaism and Islam is a derivative of the first two. I know that Christianity and Islam each have their own various sects on interpretation.
I know that ALL of their words come from more than a thousand years ago. And while the world is now a very different place, those words are still getting a lot of people killed.
I know that the region we are talking about is center stage to get the whole world killed. I find that all of this springs from words written what might as well be forever ago astoundingly silly.
That came across as demeaning and I did not necessarily mean it so.
Moderation….
I should not demean such deep faith so much as confessing to not understand it.
I like the American Indian take on land. It doesn’t belong to anyone.
Human beings, cultures, even civilizations are transitory things.
I suppose that both the Palestinians and the Israelis feel that they have blood in that land.
In for a pint in for a deluge I guess. I just see no end to it and find it a terrible waste.
BJ, you’re probably right. This fight has gone on for over 2,000 years. How silly of us to think we’re going to settle it now, at least peacefully.
The ONLY way this will be settled is when only one side is left standing.
One side left standing will never happen. Nobody left alive might.
If I lived in a neighborhood where everyone wanted to kill me, I’d move. It seems pointless to wipe out everyone around me if I don’t get to be around to enjoy it.
Israel has been posting videos of their pin-point strikes (unlike HAMAS’s random missel launches) at Youtube . . . . Long live the 1948 UN-STATE-member Israel — enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk
Genesis 16 . . . The angel of the LORD also said to her: [ Hagar ] “You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael [ father of the Arabs ] for the LORD has heard of your misery . . . He will be a wild donkey of a man .. his hand will be against everyone .. and everyone’s hand against him .. and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” — I consider this a prophecy fulfilled – and rest my case
Problem is, this war isn’t the good guys vs. the bad guys; it’s a rerun of the Hatfields vs. the McCoys. Neither side will rest until they’ve wiped out every man, woman and child of the other side. It’s long past time for the rest of the world to step in and put an end to this mutual genocide.
Problem is, this war isn’t the good guys vs. the bad guys; it’s a rerun of the Hatfields vs. the McCoys. Neither side will rest until they’ve wiped out every man, woman and child of the other side. It’s long past time for the rest of the world to step in and put an end to this mutual genocide.
Sorry, didn’t mean to double-post.
Jed must be a rabid-fan of NPR — how uninformed — sad — very very sad
This round of the Gaza war is driven by the upcoming elections. Nothing else new, really.
Israel Gaza Offensive Boosts Barak, Scrambles Election Outlook
By Gwen Ackerman
Dec. 30 (Bloomberg) — Israel’s Gaza military offensive against Hamas may make or break Defense Minister Ehud Barak’s political future, and that of his Labor Party.
With national elections scheduled for Feb. 10, the offensive is scrambling the political calculations of both Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the prime-minister candidate of Labor’s coalition partner, the Kadima Party, and Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu. At the same time, the stakes are highest for Labor leader Barak, 66, who was prime minister from 1999 until 2001.
Full story at –
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aD.xX2IHLaWs&refer=home
Jed must be a rabid-fan of NPR
National
Palistinian
Radio
Monkeyhawk — another NPR fan — it shows
National Palestinian Radio — That’s about right – LOL
Hey Jed — you’ll have to let me know what your address is – ok ??
Jed must have gone to the bathroom (again)
yall have a wonderful day — peace
http://www.nwrnetwork.com/radiostations/RealAnswersRadio/player/embedded_player.php?bw=high