Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Skeptic on Jail consultants straining patience
- Chas on Health care reform would save state money
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Politico on Health care reform would save state money
- Politico on So they said
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
389 Comments
Gun loving fundy, bent on seeing that every knee will bow to Christ goes on a murderous rampage in order to spread the love of Jesus to unbelievers, and Catholics.
Authorities: Eldora Gunman Targeted Non-Christians
Court records indicate that a 24-year-old ski lift operator who fatally shot the general manager of the Eldora ski area was determined to kill co-workers who weren’t Christian.
Documents filed Wednesday in Boulder District Court say witnesses told authorities that Derik Bonestroo walked into a building at work, fired a gun into the ceiling and said: “If you’re not Christian, you’re going to die.”
General manager Brian Mahon was shot and killed Dec. 30 at the ski area west of Boulder.
Witnesses said when Bonestroo asked Mahon’s religion, Mahon said “Catholic” and Bonestroo shot him in the chest and head.
More at:
http://cbs4denver.com/local/eldora.Mahon.memorial.2.903209.html
So cold the sea around Britain freezes
All due to global warming, of course. Global warming is a magic wand for socialists
It is an event as rare as it is spectacular – but yesterday, after a week of sub-zero conditions, the sea around Britain began to freeze. Instead of waves gently lapping the shore, walkers in Sandbanks, Dorset, found swathes of ice stretching up to 20m along the shore. It is highly unusual for Britain’s coastline to freeze, but the combination of a sustained cold snap and the protected location of the Dorset peninsula made it possible. At Padstow, in Cornwall, in another sheltered harbour, seagulls skimmed across a layer of ice. And in South Wales, boats were frozen in their moorings on the Monmouthshire and Brecon canal in Pontypool. Because of its salt content, sea water freezes solid at about minus 2C.
Kevin Horsburgh, a scientist at Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory in Liverpool, said: “What generally happens is when the surface freezes, it gets heavier and sinks. The heat in the water needs to be extracted in order for the surface to stay frozen. In order for that to happen you need a long and sustained period of sub-zero temperatures.” Mr Horsburgh added that sheltered peninsulas and harbours were more likely to freeze than open coastline. “A harbour has quite a low level of salt content because it has fresh water from rivers running into it,” he said. “The saltier the water, the less chance of it freezing.”
The cold snap showed no signs of abating yesterday. On Tuesday night temperatures plummeted as low as minus 12C in Benson, Oxfordshire. At Bournemouth Airport it was minus 11C, the coldest January night since 1963. Meanwhile in Farnborough, Hampshire, where the thermometer also recorded minus 11C, it was the coldest January night on record since 1926.
There were signs yesterday that the freezing conditions are affecting Britain badly, with the Local Government Association warning that tens of thousands of pensioners could die as a result of the prolonged cold snap. It is feared the number of deaths caused by the winter chill could exceed last year’s figure of 25,000.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24890573-954,00.html
Front page story on this morning’s EAGLE, the state of Kansas is now estimated to have a $186 million shortfall. No problem. That’s less than the white elephant downtown arena is gouging the taxpayers of Wichita and Sedgwick County.
Hank brings us the revelation that water freezes in the winter. Thanks for that brilliant insight Hank, now go back to playing with your Lincoln Logs.
Hank doesn’t understand global warming and it’s effects on climate change. Just like he doesn’t understand that the earth is more than 8,000 years old, or that dinosaurs and man never coexisted. I think the whole concept of science is lost on the Prices.
Sorry Hank.
Yeah Hank, get with the times brother!!!
Global Warming is Really Global Cooling
January 6, 2009
by Christopher Monckton
Scienceandpublicpolicy.org
On 2 January 2009, the Wall Street Journal wrote one of a series of articles apparently co-ordinated throughout the generally alarmist news media throughout the holiday season, trying to overcome the problem posed for “global warming” alarmists by the fact that global mean surface temperatures have been on a downtrend for eight straight years (Figure 1):
Eight straight years’ global temperature downtrend: The authoritative SPPI composite index of global mean surface temperature anomalies, taking the mean of two surface and two satellite datasets and updated through November 2008, shows a pronounced downtrend for eight full years. Not one of the climate models relied upon by the IPCC had predicted this downturn. The pink region shows the IPCC’s projected rates of temperature increase: the thick red straight line – entirely outside and below the pink region shows the real trend, calculated as the least-squares linear regression on the composite temperature anomalies.
http://www.rightsidenews.com/200901073243/energy-and-environment/global-warming-is-really-global-cooling.html
“Hank brings us the revelation that water freezes in the winter.”
Lol!
Maybe later he will find his butt with both hands.
Maggotpunk:
Is that really different than killing people that are not Muslim?
Much will be made of Holder’s role as a deputy attorney general in helping former President Clinton arrange for the last-minute pardon of fugitive/Democratic campaign contributor Marc Rich. (Holder said he gave Clinton a “neutral, leaning towards favorable” opinion of the proposed pardon.) And it will also be noted that Holder, as a corporate lawyer in private practice after leaving the Clinton team, played a key role in negotiating an agreement with the Justice Department that got Chiquita Brands International executives off the hook for paying protection money to right-wing death squads in Colombia.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=9608&mesg_id=9917
“Gun loving fundy, bent on seeing that every knee will bow to Christ goes on a murderous rampage in order to spread the love of Jesus to unbelievers, and Catholics.
Witnesses said when Bonestroo asked Mahon’s religion, Mahon said “Catholic” and Bonestroo shot him in the chest and head.”
Ah….Catholics are believers and Christian.
“Although economists were forecasting even more payroll reductions in December — around 550,000 — job losses in both October and November turned out to be deeper than previously estimated.”
That’s weird. Usually they are spot on.
okobserver posted January 5, 2009 at 9:37 am
Thirty years of sea ice data. The record begins at 1979, the year satellite observations began … Rapid growth spurt leaves amount of ice at levels seen 29 years ago.
————
bawksalot20 posted January 5, 2009 at 11:33 am
Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979
————
Nathaniel posted January 6, 2009 at 9:20 am
Anyone already point this out to Cosmos yet?
Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979
—————–
The reality, and real science that AGW deniers want to HIDE.
‘Cold Hard Facts‘
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/cold-hard-facts/
See also summer versus winter graphs,
SB
See also summer versus winter graphs,
‘Northern Ice‘
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/northern-ice/
Making a claim to one faith or another does not make it so. I can make a claim to be a Christian but, if I do not apply the priciples of Christianity to my life, am I really a Christian or am I just claiming to be a Christian? I will assert that anyone that is not attempting to apply the principles of Chritianity to their way of living is not a Christian. The basis of my assertion is what the apostle John wrote in 1 John 3:10 (KJV) “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” I would also assert that the actions of Mr. Mahon are not Christian.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 7:55 am
Global Warming is Really Global Cooling
———————–
Sol, this title and post seems to written just for you, and Christopher Monckton.
‘Stupid is as stupid does ‘
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/stupid-is-as-stupid-does/
2008 will be over at midnight, and it’s bound to end up as one of the ten hottest years on record. In fact it’s a rather stark sign of global warming that every year this century is on the top-10 hottest list. But the global average temperature for 2008 will not be as warm as it was for 2007.
This is only natural, because global temperature shows BOTH a man-made warming trend AND natural fluctuations — noise — inherent in the climate system. While the temperature TREND climbs inexorably higher and higher, each year’s average jitters up and down.
—————-
More, and graphs at link.
January 05, 2009
What Disappearing Sea Ice?
Gregory Young
Despite the mountains of contrary evidence, concerns over disappearing sea ice and the unfounded position that the North Pole could melt entirely in 2008, pushed U.S. government bureaucrats to officially list the polar bear as an endangered species in May of 2008. And then guess what happened….
After the onslaught of record breaking bitter temperatures during the last quarter of this year, and with less wind, the amount of sea ice has significantly and dramatically rebounded at the fastest rate ever before recorded.
Currently being measured to be about where it was 29 years ago in 1979, sea ice is again as expansive and dense as it was when global cooling proponents of the time said that we were witnessing the advance of a mini ice age.
Reported by the University of Illinois’s Arctic Climate Research Center, and derived from satellite observations of the Northern and Southern hemisphere polar regions, sea ice has been restored to pre-AGW levels. The fantasy and absurdity of AGW is becoming laughable, and again is proven conclusively wrong.
Will the “Global Cooling = Global Warming” crowd, and their enablers at the MSM, be recharging their spin on the cold and now “very hard” evidence of cooler weather as yet another indication of Global Warming?
Now that the northern ice pack has been refurbished, polar bears will be free to eat as many seals as possible. It certainly seems that the polar bears are no longer an endangered species. The same cannot be said, however, about AGW proponents….
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/01/what_disappearing_sea_ice.html
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 8:46 am
What Disappearing Sea Ice?
Currently being measured to be about where it was 29 years ago in 1979
————————-
The reality, and real science that AGW deniers want to HIDE.
‘Cold Hard Facts‘
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/cold-hard-facts/
See also summer versus winter graphs,
‘Northern Ice‘
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/northern-ice/
“Gun loving fundy, bent on seeing that every knee will bow to Christ goes on a murderous rampage in order to spread the love of Jesus to unbelievers, and Catholics.”
So Maggotpunk you now understand the War On Terror and the importance Bush placed on fighting it. Same-same with radical muslims to kill us all.
SolDevVB Posted January 8, 2009 at 1:49 pm
the above is not your local forecast, but mine.
————–
Sol, has your local forecast been as accurate as the Met’s annual global temperature forecast?
‘Pacific continues to influence climate’
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2008/pr20081230.html
“2009 is expected to be one of the top-five warmest years on record, despite continued cooling of huge areas of the tropical Pacific Ocean, a phenomenon known as La Niña.
According to climate scientists at the Met Office and the University of East Anglia the global temperature is forecast to be more than 0.4 °C above the long-term average. This would make 2009 warmer than the year just gone and the warmest since 2005.
During La Niña, cold waters rise to the surface to cool the ocean and land surface temperatures. The 2009 forecast includes an updated decadal forecast using a Met Office climate model. This indicates a rapid return of global temperature to the long-term warming trend, with an increasing probability of record temperatures after 2009.
…
# Over the nine years, 2000-2008, since the Met Office has issued forecasts of annual global temperature the mean value of the forecast error is 0.06 °C .”
“The planet has grown steadily warmer in recent decades”: In fact, the reverse is true. The fastest rate of growth in global temperature, at a rate equivalent to almost 2 degrees Celsius per century, was between 1910 and 1930.
No “recent decade” has matched that warming rate, though 1975-1998 came close. Between 1940 and 1975, and again between 2001 and the present, global temperatures have exhibited a downtrend. In fact, the current warming began 300 years ago, at the end of the Maunder Minimum, a 70-year period when there were very few sunspots on the face of the Sun. [Kinda like now?] Between 1700 and 1735, according to the world’s oldest instrumental temperature dataset, the temperature in central England rose by 2.2 degrees C, equivalent to 6.3 C/century, or about nine times the warming rate seen in the 20th century.
The warming of the planet parallels the increase in the Sun’s activity between the end of the Maunder Minimum 300 years ago and the end of the 70-year solar Grand Maximum in 1998. During the Grand Maximum, the Sun was more active, and for longer, than during almost any similar previous period in the past 11,400 years (Solanki et al., 2005). For at least 275 of the 300 years’ warming, humankind cannot have had anything much to do with the warming. Given the inexorable increase in solar activity throughout the past 300 years (see Hathaway, 2004: Figure 2), it is no surprise that the weather is warmer now than it was 30 or 50 or 100 or 200 or 300 years ago.
http://www.rightsidenews.com/200901073243/energy-and-environment/global-warming-is-really-global-cooling.html
“That’s less than the white elephant downtown arena is gouging the taxpayers of Wichita and Sedgwick County.”
Yep, and with more brilliant “progressive” ideas like the waterwalk and boathouse plans will sock even more of our money into nice to do, but can’t afford ideas – which will never pay for themselves.
But not a problem, we like higher property taxes, sales taxes, and less revenue from big businesses (TIF)? Right? The cost we pay to be “progressive”.
HAMAS being bombed back to the stone-age where they belong . . . . oh how sweet it is
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live_asx.html?stream=stream1
“HAMAS being bombed back to the stone-age where they belong . . . . oh how sweet it is”
Mmmmm can you FEEL that Christian love? Praise Jesus!
Wouldn’t that be jewish love, or are you of the persuassion that the Israeli attack is being directed by the United States?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 8, 2009 at 8:47 pm | Permalink
This is just as funny as them whiiiiining about JR not having a job, when he owns a business. Or whiiiiiining about me not having a husband when it is ever so clear I dont want one.
If JR and I are successful, there is something wrong with that. If we are failures, well, there is something wrong with that.
Methinks they are just unhappy folks who cant stand to see others have good fortune, success and happiness.
Just keep peeing in the punchbowl guys. It really converts people to your way of thinking, er whiiiiiining.
Just imagine how mad they will be if they actually DRILL on my land?
__________________________________________
Wrong butch,
I’ve owned a business since 1981. I used to be a liberal too until I realize that the old money liberals didn’t want me to succeed. They want to tax and regulate me out of business. I hate paying half my income in taxes (all considered). Because I’m not a farmer I don’t get government subsidies and tax breaks. As a professional, my business pays one of the highest rates no matter how much it profits. In 1993 my company made $50K and I paid 35% federal taxes and 12% (if I remember right) to the state. The next year I lost $45k but I was only able to recoup part of those taxes and it took years of losses to recoup it all. So now I don’t make a profit at all. I share it with my employees in retirement plans.
Since you and BJ are liberals, I’m sure you love bowing down to the government but I refuse to do that. Why don’t you prove how liberal you are and pay more than you should? I do consulting work for government jobs which I avoid if possible because of all the regulations. Those regulations add 50%-100% to the cost.
I also hope you do find oil on your land. That will increase the supply and help keep prices down. I still don’t think cosMo will like it since he believes all fossil fuels are evil but since you’re liberal maybe that’s OK. You know, maybe if we all profess to be liberal, he would stop his crusade on this blog.
Hank posted January 9, 2009 at 6:08 am
[Title from link]
So cold the sea around Britain freezes
[Hank added the following to his copy/paste]
All due to global warming, of course. Global warming is a magic wand for socialists
——————–
cosmos_originally posted January 8, 2009 at 5:33 pm
StevenEDavis posted January 8, 2009 at 5:17 pm
“What if no one plays with Captain Cosmos?”
It’ll never happen. You guys are obsessed with Cosmos.
—————
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’)[, Socialism,] and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the [three] obsessions above.
—————
[, Socialism,] added after a reminder from fleettwood.
Sorry bout your fellow comrades in Gaza BlueJay ..
I know it must be tough
“I still don’t think cosMo will like it since he believes all fossil fuels are evil”
Mind reading again?
Please link or repost where Cosmos ever said that.
It’s only the voices in your head telling you such things. You are just mad because Cosmos is so much smarter than you and whoops your butt every single day.
I hope someone is warming up the waaaaaaambulance.
Looks like the cons here are gonna need it today.
Heheheh. Cosmos advocates conservation are realism concerning the burning of fossil fuels, and dd twists that intohe believes all fossil fuels are evil”.
Heeeeeee.
Cos can make a monkey out of you even when he isnt here!
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:16 am | Permalink
Cos can make a monkey out of you even when he isnt here!
=======================
Too bad most of the countries and their leaders in the world have turned their back on the AGW agenda as unrealistic and unaffordable.
cosmos is just spitting in the wind now.
“Sorry bout your fellow comrades in Gaza BlueJay ..”
Heheheh. JR calls out israel on their terrorist and civilian murdering activities, and suddenly, he’s a “comrade” to Hamas?
Yep. I sure hope someone is checking the oil and tires and filling the gas tank on the waaaaaaambulance.
It’s going to be a busy day….
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 8:55 am
“The planet has grown steadily warmer in recent decades”: In fact, the reverse is true.
——————–
Thank you SolDevVB, for proving that you lack the tiny amount of intelligence required to understand my earlier post.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-19-3/#comment-500181
Or perhaps SolDevVB is a victim of this syndrome?
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the [three] obsessions above.
—————
[, Socialism,] added after a reminder from fleettwood.
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:04 am | Permalink
“HAMAS being bombed back to the stone-age where they belong . . . . oh how sweet it is”
Mmmmm can you FEEL that Christian love? Praise Jesus!
—————————————————–
The Jewish faith is not Christian. They are Jewish – they follow God and their beliefs are based in the Old Testament – “an eye for an eye…” and not “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”
“HAMAS being bombed back to the stone-age where they belong . . . . oh how sweet it is”
I believe the poster to be Christian. The poster is free to correct me if I am wrong.
Cheering on persecution and genocide. That’s some faith you all have going.
“Wrong butch”
Isnt it funny, that’s exactly what tippy used to call me. Is it supposed to be an insult? Hell, I only WISH I was a strapping, handsome “butch” woman.
I’m a little ol’ gray haired lady. But thanks for asking. My sweetie will be highly amused.
I wonder how many cons can fit in the back of the waaaaaambulance.
I think we’re gonna have to apply to homeland security for a grant to get another one.
One waaaaaaambulance just isnt going to be able to carry the load.
“Ice loss is happening faster than the models are showing”: In fact, there has been no trend in global sea-ice extent throughout the 30-year satellite record, as Figure 3 demonstrates –
Figure 3
No trend for 30 years in global sea-ice extent. Source: University of Illinois.
The generally-alarmist news media have concentrated chiefly on sea ice in the Arctic, because in the summer of 2007 more than a quarter of the usual summer sea-ice suddenly melted.
However, NASA published a paper recently that made it clear that the chief reason for this
sudden (and temporary) melting was a combination of warm currents and winds carrying tropical heat poleward. This had little to do with “global warming”, and has substantially reversed itself since.
Indeed, the rate of sea-ice formation in October 2008 was the most rapid ever observed.
Current Arctic sea-ice extent is barely distinguishable from the extent observed
by the satellites on the same day in 1980, the first year in which satellite coverage allowed the
extent of the ice to be reliably monitored (Figure 4) –
Figure 4
Arctic sea-ice extent (purple) on 3 January 1980 and 2 January 2009: there has been very little loss of Arctic sea ice since 1980, and this loss has been more than made up by gains in Antarctic sea-ice. Source: University of Illinois.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/scarewatch/really_cooling.pdf
“dinosaurs and man never coexisted”. Really? Not anywhere in the course of pre history?
weird.
And the “war on terror” is a fraud, regardless of which religion is being “warred” upon.
Please, someone define a terrorist for me. Tell me what to look for.
We’ll need a fleet of ‘em. Or a semi. Something!
“Same-same with radical muslims to kill us all”
Wow. The FEAR amongst these “guys” is just palpable.
No wonder they’re called bedwetters.
“Cheering on persecution and genocide” ..
Sorry BlueJay .. Israel has a right to defend herself .. 8000 rockets into Israel in 2008 .. Gaza asked for it .. HAMAS is their cancer .. ever experience kemo-therapy ??
Like Chris Rock says, given the examples of Matthew Shepherd and James Byrd, he’s not afraid of Al Quaida, he’s afraid of “Al Cracker”.
Ditto here. Chrisitian wingnut terrorists are waaaaay more of a threat to me and mine than any “radical muslim”.
Obviously dadman hasnt experienced “kemo-therapy”
either.
Otherwise, he’d know how it’s spelled.
Killing people for a difference in belief is not Christian; it is not what Jesus taught nor is it the basis of the Christian faith. The basis of the Christian faith can found in two commandments: Matthew 22:36-40 “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Simple???
Oh, you havent seen anything yet, Tom. They are just getting warmed up for the day.
Just wondering—who is paying for the new home the Bushes are buying? I also heard somewhere that Laura will be living in the house and George will be living on the ranch in Crawford. Maybe Laura is smarter than she looks.
Geez, that’s twice now cjm has made the “they are not real christians” argument.
I should make book on when and how many times these wingnuts will say that.
Better than an oil well.
“Please, someone define a terrorist for me. Tell me what to look for. — Pleefer
——-
It’s the word bushco decided would scare everyone enough to allow them to maximize their profits.
Dadman, how about quoting some fairy tales to get the day started? Get it out of the way early.
Linda, that’s about the best definition I’ve ever heard. heheheheh!
I wonder if we should lay in a supply of mouse grease while we’re restocking the waaaaaambulance?
CJM,
Matthew 10:34 – “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”
That verse, unfortunately, is the one that warmongering “Christians” use to justify slaughter in the name of Christ and God.
Sad.
The modern day definition of terrorist or terrorism appears to be groups or an individual that are not of recognized governments that act independently of recognized governments and attack mainly civilian targets, although some military have be attacked.
ksfarmgrrl:
Typically one must repeat themselves at least three times before the audience catches on. May take even more times here due to the density of those in attendance.
Seems to me the ‘waaaaaambulance’ could easily be filled daily with poster whining about Christians.
thomaswitt
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:33 am | Permalink
CJM,
Matthew 10:34 – “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”
That verse, unfortunately, is the one that warmongering “Christians” use to justify slaughter in the name of Christ and God.
===============================
So what would you have done after 911 Thomas?
Are you saying you approve of terrorists killing civilians and governments have no right to declare groups that attack them terrorists and act accordingly?
Or are you just using the argument to post your hatred of Christians?
The latter appears to be more accurate.
poster+s=posters
SolDevVB Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:24 am
there has been no trend in global sea-ice extent throughout the 30-year satellite record,
——————–
Thank you SolDevVB, for proving that you lack the tiny amount of intelligence required to understand my earlier post.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-19-3/#comment-500185
Or perhaps SolDevVB is a victim of this syndrome?
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the [three] obsessions above.
—————
Socialism added after a reminder from fleettwood.
Or maybe SolDevVB lacks the needed intelligence AND suffers from the syndrome?
SolDevVB, WHAT prevents you from understanding the very simple facts about climate and AGW science?
thomaswitt:
What is that sword? Do you believe that Christ needs to use a real sword or is the sword a metaphor?
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:16 am | Permalink
Heheheh. Cosmos advocates conservation are realism concerning the burning of fossil fuels, and dd twists that intohe believes all fossil fuels are evil”.
Heeeeeee.
Cos can make a monkey out of you even when he isnt here!
_____________________________
Burning fossil fuels produce CO2 and CO2 gasses are responsible for AGW. AGW will destroy man. Therefore, fossil fuels are evil.
That is more accurate form of diagramming than what you did the other day. It proves how self centered you are.
That waaaaabulance will waste a lot of fossil fuels to get all the way to Trego county.
“Since 2003, Greenland has lost an area of ice ten times the size of Manhattan”:
In fact, this quantity is trivial and (perhaps deliberately) misleading. Manhattan Island is 22.7 square miles, so Greenland’s ice loss since 2003 is said to be 227 square miles. In 2000,
according to the CIA world fact book, the Greenland ice-sheet was 677,855 square miles in
extent. So the ice loss since 2003 represents one part in 3000 of the ice sheet, or 0.3%.
Such trivial changes in ice cover are well within long-run natural variability: indeed, 850,000 years ago the entire Greenland ice sheet melted away, and anthropogenic “global warming” cannot have been to blame, for we were not there.
Furthermore, one should contrast the negligible
change in area with the change in mass that has occurred recently. For instance, Johannesen et al. (2005) report that the mean thickness of the entire Greenland ice sheet grew by 2 inches per year for 11 years from 1993 to 2003, gaining almost 2 feet in thickness.
*******
“Alaska’s low-lying ice-fields are disappearing”: In fact, Alaska had a record-cold winter in 2007/8, then a record-cold summer in 2008, and is now experiencing its second very cold winter in a row. The fact that low-lying ice-fields have been disappearing is not in the least surprising after 300 years of warming, 275 of which were unquestionably natural.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/scarewatch/really_cooling.pdf
Wow, Regular, you got all of that by my quoting of a Biblical verse? That’s pretty amazing, especially since what you assume my views are doesn’t reflect my views at all.
Without getting into a protracted argument with you about religion, I want to point out that national security decisions that defend against the kinds of attacks you cite (9/11, other acts of terrorism), are to be done in this nation *independent* of any religious motivation. The President’s oath, as Commander in Chief, is to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Nothing in there about doing so in the name of God or any other religious reason.
With that said, there is plenty of justification to use military force to defend ourselves against acts of war and/or terrorism. One does not need to turn it into a holy crusade, or use the Bible as justification for heinous acts. To claim that my criticism of certain kinds of warmongers means that I don’t think our nation should be defended is ridiculous.
Sol,
cosmos hates it when facts get in the way of his AGW alarmism.
I see KFG is crying about how tough life is for an old gay lady in Kansas.
Oh my! It must be so awful.
You can own a farm, cook your chicken, be as gay as you want to be….
The only thing you can’t do is force the government to sanction your lifestyle.
And you get on this forum and cry like a little baby about it as if life couldn’t be any worse.
As I have said many times, you wouldn’t last a week in the Middle East at the hands of real terrorists who would kill you the second you said you were gay and they would probably do far worse to you than just kill you for being gay. Probably hang you up and make an example of you.
But, yep, us “Chistian terrorists” here in America are so awful because we don’t agree with your lifestyle choice to the point of supporting government endorsement of it.
Go cry me a river.
CJM,
Please re-read my post carefully. My criticism was of those who use that verse to justify slaughter. It was not a commentary on the Bible itself.
Thomswitt,
Who exactly uses that verse to justify slaughter?
What denomination? When? Where?
thomaswitt
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:45 am
Wow, Regular, you got all of that by my quoting of a Biblical verse?
=======================
Nice try to play innocent Thomas. I analyzed your position from the following statment:
thomaswitt
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:33 am | Permalink
That verse, unfortunately, is the one that warmongering “Christians” use to justify slaughter in the name of Christ and God.
Care to defend that statement of bigotry and hate?
“Sorry BlueJay .. Israel has a right to defend herself .. 8000 rockets into Israel in 2008 .. Gaza asked for it .. HAMAS is their cancer .. ever experience kemo-therapy ??”
And YOU have a right to be an example of your faith by coming here and cheering on persecution and slaughter.
Be honest about it. It gets you off that “God’s chosen people” are killing people. It makes you think Jesus is coming soon.
Sick.
“Nathaniel” –
“ksfarmgrrl’s” sexual orientation is not a lifestyle “choice.”
Your religion, on the other hand is nothing but a “choice,” now is it?
So stop your whining about those of us who don’t agree with your lifestyle choice, boy.
thomaswitt
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:46 am | Permalink
CJM,
Please re-read my post carefully. My criticism was of those who use that verse to justify slaughter. It was not a commentary on the Bible itself.
—————————————————–
I understand that Thomas, I just asked an additional question. do you have a thought?
“What is that sword? Do you believe that Christ needs to use a real sword or is the sword a metaphor? — CJM
——-
the tongue is the sword.
“As I have said many times, you wouldn’t last a week in the Middle East at the hands of real terrorists who would kill you the second you said you were gay and they would probably do far worse to you than just kill you for being gay.”
Baloney.
I cook some MEAN vegetarian dishes. One taste and they would be WORSHIPING me.
Heheheh. Kinda like my vegetarian sweetie….
And you?
Oh, that’s right. No one wants you.
Looks like nathan is the first pickup for the waaaaaaaaaambulance today.
Hehehe. HAHAHAHAAHAHAH.
“Therefore, fossil fuels are evil.”
Uh, that’s not diagramming. That’s just plain faulty logic.
Yet another class I took that you obviously missed.
You went from a specific to a general.
Tsk tsk. Do try to keep up.
Sigh. I’ve collected yet another obsessed wingnut “fan”.
I just really had NO IDEA these so called straight men would find me so iresistible.
Not that the emotion is returned….
So many wingnuts. So little time.
KFG,
LOL, you don’t pay much attention to the Middle East do you?
Nope, the only one crying here is you. Every day about how tough you have it as an old gay woman in Kansas.
My goodness, you would think that there were Christians out on your front lawn with signs protesting you with pitch forks and torches like you were frankenstein or something.
You don’t know how good you have it in this country.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 9:43 am
and anthropogenic “global warming” cannot have been to blame, for we were not there.
—————–
SolDevVB seems to believe that humans cannot cause something that earlier happened naturally.
The answer to my earlier question seems to be “both”.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-19-3/#comment-500247
“Or maybe SolDevVB lacks the needed intelligence AND suffers from the syndrome?”
Why don’t you explain to us BlueJay just why you think HAMAS is such a wonderful organization .. do they like feed hungry people or something ?? are you a card-carrying member ?? .. or maybe you just hate the Jews.
“Burning fossil fuels produce CO2 and CO2 gasses are responsible for AGW. AGW will destroy man. Therefore, fossil fuels are evil.”
Note that it was bigotbawks, er, dd, that said that.
Not Cosmos.
“Why don’t you explain to us BlueJay just why you think HAMAS is such a wonderful organization”
Please repost where JR said Hamas was a “wonderful organization”.
Mind readers. Not just for breakfast anymore.
Hyperbole much?
No let’s stick with you dadman.
You came in here waving your pom poms over death and destruction.
I didn’t look at your link. What does it show, dead children?
Nathan, I dont live my life in fear. The people in the middle east are not nearly as much a threat to my safety as christian wingnuts in this country are.
It is true that Hamas is an organization of good bad guys. They have taken care of Palastinians (all the while putting same in grave danger!). But what the poor people see are acts of humanitarianism.
Palestinians too.
KFG,
Of course they are not a threat to your safety here.
There are better people than you will to protect you and afford you the freedoms you enjoy here.
The point was that if you didn’t live in this country, you wouldn’t be on a blog crying about how the world is so awful to an old gay woman living in Kansas. You would be dead. Actually killed for what you claim to be.
Instead, you live in one of the most free countries in the world where you can be as gay as you want to be.
Congratulations. And you can even cry about it too.
Gee, I guess that’s why I live here and not there, nathan.
Me thinks someone needs a cookie and a pat on the head for volunteering to be a paid killer.
Thank goodness there are not more people like dadman. Otherwise?
“You would be dead. Actually killed for what you claim to be.”
Well that would probably be the reality here with a Christian twist on the Taliban.
It’s not Israels fault that HAMAS hides behind women and children .. the “brave-martyrs” that they are .. what would they be without Al-Jezeera – BBC – NPR .. PS: they love death .. right ?? at-least that is what they claim .. I say: send them on their way
I say, I say,
Seems to me the ‘waaaaaambulance’ could easily be filled daily with posters whining about Christians.
KFG,
Sure, I like White Chocolate Chip Macadamea nut cookies.
Perhaps you can bring some to Mary’s celebration party?
I will see you there!
It’s a pretty day here again. I think I’ll go outside and do some more yard work and haul some empty feed sacks to the trash.
Feel free to continue whiiiiiining nathan. Or should we call you Rodney? Like Rodney “I dont get no respect” Dangerfield?
“I say: send them on their way”
Boy you sure did! You also told us VOLUMES about yourself and your faith.
KFG,
You are the one crying on here about being a gay person in America.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 9, 2009 at 10:10 am | Permalink
Gee, I guess that’s why I live here and not there, nathan.
Me thinks someone needs a cookie and a pat on the head for volunteering to be a paid killer.
————————-
I’m sure all the men and women of military branches thank you for calling them ‘paid kilers.’
Are you going to give up your civilian life to defend the country kfg?
Or is it just easier to be mean?
Thank about your words.
No, you wont see me at any party celebrating obama and his purpose driven bigot.
thank = think
depending on the situation of course
or if you are from Texas and pronounce “think” as “thank.”
KFG,
So… no cookies then? No I am going to cry.
It is a full moon out, or at least nearly full, which may explain all the Right Wing nastiness on this and other threads.
Ask any cop or bartender about the people who creep out when the moon is full. There are those who say it is a myth, but those folks don’t.
Dennis
“Tropical storms can be expected to increase by 6% every 10 years”: In fact, the reverse is true. As already noted, the number of intense tropical hurricanes has remained static for a century, and the number of intense tropical cyclones and typhoons has been falling throughout the 30-year period of the satellite record. There is no scientific basis whatsoever for the Wall Street Journal’s assertion, as a cursory look at the cyclone-frequency and cyclone-intensity records would have revealed. The Accumulated Cyclone Energy Index, a two-year running sum of the intensities of all tropical storms, has been maintained for 30 years. Its lowest value on record was for October 2008, notwithstanding the relatively active Atlantic hurricane season in 2007.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/scarewatch/really_cooling.pdf
Waiting more ad-hominems from cosmos.
Dear BlueJay .. Eliminating HAMAS (your good budies) has nothing to do with my faith .. it has everything to do with peace and freedom for all .. you don’t negotiate with cancer .. maybe when the Philistine people are pried from the hostage grip of HAMAS .. they’ll have a real chance to live side-by-side with Israel . . . . that is what I cheer for .. how about you ??
I think there will be a tendency to take you ate your original words there dadman.
“HAMAS being bombed back to the stone-age where they belong . . . . oh how sweet it is”
Seems pretty clear to me. I am not able to see your link. I don’t have the media player. Maybe you want to walk me through what has you pumping your fist while people die?
No celebration here about innocense dying BlueJay .. HAMAS not innocent . . . . maybe when the Philistines love their own children more than they hate the Jews (not in our life-time) things will be better .. I’m sure .. freakn donkeys
HAMAS to the stone-age
tiz been fun yall .. I’d better get back to wk .. someones gotta pay for those welfare checks
http://www.nwrnetwork.com/radiostations/RealAnswersRadio/player/embedded_player.php?bw=high
Nice try.
“No celebration here about innocense dying BlueJay”
And in your first sentiment, absolutely no concern for them either.
I don’t think you can crab walk your way out of your earlier glee with death and suffering.
HAMAS to the stone-age . . . how sweet it is
LONG LIVE THE 1948 UN-MEMBER-NATION / STATE of ISRAEL ==========
On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said: “To your descendants [ the Jewish people ] I give this land [ Israel ] from the river of Egypt to the great river .. the Euphrates” . . . . . Genesis 15:18
“People are getting killed and maimed! YAY Jesus is on his way!!”
Jesus is on his way!!” .. that is true BlueJay .. the signs are all over the place .. try Matthew 24 . . . . peace
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 10:21 am
Waiting more ad-hominems from cosmos.
——————-
Facts are not ad hominems, SolDevVB.
For example, you claim that Earth has been cooling for the last eight years.
Anyone can see the warming trend.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-19-3/#comment-500181
You compare Arctic sea ice in Dec 1979 to Dec 2008, and then insist that everything is the same now as then.
Anyone can see the downward trend of the ice during the last 30 years.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-19-3/#comment-500185
SolDevVB, you are an excellent example of someone who ignores facts and reality, so that you can deny AGW. You prefer to blindly believe falsehoods from Christopher Monckton and others, instead of the facts
“dadman” dances on innocents’ graves with –
“HAMAS to the stone-age . . . how sweet it is
LONG LIVE THE 1948 UN-MEMBER-NATION / STATE of ISRAEL “
And we all know how much you CONs love the United Nations.
Or, for that matter, how much Israel does:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=29489&Cr=gaza&Cr1=unrwa
“Waiting more ad-hominems from cosmos.”
Right on schedule.
SolDevVB, you are an excellent example of someone who ignores facts and reality….
You prefer to blindly believe falsehoods
Stupid is as stupid does. Indeed cosmos, and of course anyone can see the down trend over the past 8 years. Glad you can admit that, instead of blindly following the political machine of the IPCC
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/TEMPSvsCO2.jpg
And you can plainly see the non trend of ice for the past 30 years at the link I provided.
Thank you for admiting the cooling trend and lack of change in ice cosmos. How unbrainwashed of you.
Eight straight years’ global temperature downtrend: The authoritative SPPI composite index of global
mean surface temperature anomalies, taking the mean of two surface and two satellite datasets and updated
through November 2008, shows a pronounced downtrend for eight full years. Not one of the climate models
relied upon by the IPCC had predicted this downturn. The pink region shows the IPCC’s projected rates of
temperature increase: the thick red straight line – entirely outside and below the pink region shows the real
trend, calculated as the least-squares linear regression on the composite temperature anomalies.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/scarewatch/really_cooling.pdf
No trend for 30 years in global sea-ice extent. Source: University of Illinois.
Same link.
As the Apostle Paul wrote in the book of Romans: “For we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God which is in Christ Jesus.
None of us are without sin but, “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Though I will never place judgment on someone for their choice of lifestyle, if it deviates from my Judaeo-Christian beliefs, don’t try to force me to accept it. And as for being a Christian, one must make a conscious choice to become a follower of Christ. As Jesus once said, we must pick up our cross and follow him daily. It is a choice that few have really made even though many use the claim of Christian as a convenience.
People killing each other is not a part of the Christian belief. Jesus rebuffed the idea of his time to seek an eye for an eye.
“Ice loss is happening faster than the models are showing”:
In fact, there has been no trend in global sea-ice extent throughout the 30-year satellite record, as Figure 3 demonstrates –
Figure 3
No trend for 30 years in global sea-ice extent. Source: University of Illinois.
[So apparently cosmos believes the University of Illinois is lying. Gotcha. ]
The generally-alarmist news media have concentrated chiefly on sea ice in the Arctic, because in the summer of 2007 more than a quarter of the usual summer sea-ice suddenly melted.
However, NASA published a paper recently that made it clear that the chief reason for this sudden (and temporary) melting was a combination of warm currents and winds carrying tropical heat poleward.
[and apparently cosmos believes NASA is lying too. Isn't that where Gore's butt boy Hansen is employed? Go figure]
This had little to do with “global warming”, and has substantially reversed itself since. Indeed, the rate of sea-ice formation in October 2008 was the most rapid ever observed.
Current Arctic sea-ice extent is barely distinguishable from the extent observed
by the satellites on the same day in 1980, the first year in which satellite coverage allowed the
extent of the ice to be reliably monitored (Figure 4) –
Figure 4
Arctic sea-ice extent (purple) on 3 January 1980 and 2 January 2009: there has been very little loss of Arctic sea ice since 1980, and this loss has been more than made up by gains in Antarctic sea-ice. Source: University of Illinois.
It is quite easy to see the truth cosmos. Follow the link, review the image. But of course you believe the University of Illinois is lying too.
Convenient that every piece of data that proves cosmos religion is a farce comes from liars.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/scarewatch/really_cooling.pdf
SolDevVB,
Cosmos said over a year ago that the only way for a scientist to be credible is for them to accept AGW.
If not, well, they are not credible.
It is amazing how the mind of a liberal nitwit like cosmos thinks.
And again, waiting more ad-hominems from cosmos.
RE: SPPI
“The organization’s Executive Director is Robert “Bob” Ferguson, a former Chief of Staff to Republican Congressmen Jack Fields (1981-1997), John E. Peterson (1997-2002), and Rick Renzi (2002). The chief science adviser to the institute is Willie Soon, PhD an astrophysicist and geoscientist, an opponent of man made global warming and advancer of the theory that climate change is caused by solar variation. The chief policy adviser is Christopher Monckton, a former special adviser to Margaret Thatcher and one of the UK’s most prominent climate change sceptics. Further science advisers include William Kininmonth, Robert M. Carter, David Legates, Craig D. Idso, all known skeptics of man made climate change, and James J. O’Brien. Joe D’Aleo is the institute’s Meteorology Adviser.
The institute has funded a film “Apocalypse No” intended to show the errors of the Al Gore film An Inconvenient Truth. It will show Monckton, chief policy adviser of the institute presenting a slide show to the Cambridge University Union examining climate change science. [4].
The New York Times reported that in 2002 Frontiers of Freedom received $230,000 in funding from Exxon.[5] The institute received $90,000 in funding from ExxonMobil in 2006[6]”
– from Wiki –
It is amazing how the mind of a liberal nitwit like cosmos thinks.
I wouldn’t even go so far as to call her liberal. Utterly blinded by the religion of Gore and the political machine (and proven liar) the IPCC.
Why would she believe anyone that dared blasphemy her religion?
SolDevVB,
There has been NO long-term warming during the last few decades. /sarcasm OFF
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/5yr.jpg
There has been NO downward trend in Arctic sea ice since 1979. /sarcasm OFF
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/sepoctarea.jpg
– from Wiki –
Do they still allow anyone to edit their info?
“The [climate] alarmists also enjoy a huge financial advantage over the skeptics with numerous foundations funding climate research, University research money and the United Nations endless promotion of the cause. Just how much money do the climate alarmists have at their disposal? There was a $3 billion donation to the global warming cause from Virgin Air’s Richard Branson alone. The well-heeled environmental lobbying groups have massive operating budgets compared to groups that express global warming skepticism. The Sierra Club Foundation 2004 budget was $91 million and the Natural Resources Defense Council had a $57 million budget for the same year. Compare that to the often media derided Competitive Enterprise Institute’s small $3.6 million annual budget. In addition, if a climate skeptic receives any money from industry, the media immediately labels them and attempts to discredit their work. The same media completely ignore the money flow from the environmental lobby to climate alarmists like James Hansen and Michael Oppenheimer. (ie. Hansen received $250,000 from the Heinz Foundation and Oppenheimer is a paid partisan of Environmental Defense Fund) The alarmists have all of these advantages, yet they still feel the need to resort to desperation tactics to silence the skeptics. (LINK) Could it be that the alarmists realize that the American public is increasingly rejecting their proposition that the family SUV is destroying the earth and rejecting their shrill calls for “action” to combat their computer model predictions of a ‘climate emergency?’”
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/sppi_ewire_8_21_2007/are_gore_and_newsweek_s_climate_change_deniers_accusations_coordinated_.html
You really want to compare numbers there chas?
cosmos, I sure hope you are getting your share of the billions wasted perpetrating the fraud of global warming.
“Based on oxygen isotope ratios from the GISP2 Greenland ice core, he shows a graph which indicates alternating climatic warming and cooling has occurred about every 30 years since 1470, well before atmosphere carbon dioxide began to increase.
He also says the global warming of the past century of 0.8C in “virtually insignificant when compared to the magnitude of at least 10 global climate changes in the past 15,000 years.”
bclocalnews.com/bc_north/northernsentinel/opinion/37151494.html
The rose is off the bloom cosmos. And since you don’t want to look at the down trend of temps over the last 8 years, but instead go back to the 1800’s, let’s go a little further back and see how amazingly typical climate change is – and naturally occurring.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=41&tstamp=200709
lol. The bloom is off the rose.
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 11:18 am
SolDevVB,
Cosmos said over a year ago that the only way for a scientist to be credible is for them to accept AGW.
If not, well, they are not credible.
It is amazing how the mind of a liberal nitwit like cosmos thinks.
——————-
NO Nathaniel!
I clearly said that there is NO credible science that refutes the AGW theory — and Nathaniel and the other AGW deniers here cannot prove that I’m wrong about that.
Nathaniel cannot understand that it takes science to refute science.
Nathaniel cannot understand that science is about the science, not the scientist.
Nathaniel cannot understand scientific methodology.
Nathaniel believes that mere opinions, such as the LIES from the agricultural economist Dennis Avery, are sufficient to refute the AGW theory.
Nathaniel is wrong, and very confused.
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical03.jsp
fleettwood
Posted January 9, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink
– from Wiki –
“Do they still allow anyone to edit their info?”
————————————
Any Web site that has ‘wiki’ attached to its name is not considered a credible reference for scholarly writing. And to answer your question; all you need to do is become a member of a “wiki” site and you can edit or publish on the site. There are a few restrictions that must be adhered to but nothing too serious.
In addition to all the other reasons we’ve talked about this week for opposing confirmation of Eric Holder as attorney general, The Heritage Foundation alerts us to his “Sixth Amendment Problem.”
Citing an article by Harvey Silvergate in The National Law Journal, we learn:
…Holder strongly suggested that, when deciding whether to indict a corporation — and indictment can be a death sentence for companies in certain businesses — they consider whether the company has “cooperated” in the investigation. “Cooperation” was partially defined by whether the corporation agreed to waive the legally protected attorney-client and work-product privileges…including corporate counsel’s discussions with employees. Another factor, suggested Holder, would be “whether the corporation appears to be protecting its culpable employees and agents” by advancing or paying those individuals’ attorney fees. A further sign of possible noncooperation would be whether the corporation kept the employees on the payroll or entered into a joint defense agreement with any of them. Put simply, the Holder Memo suggested that, by facilitating the ability of employees to continue working and to vigorously defend themselves, the company was demonstrating a noncooperative attitude that could get it indicted.
Think about that. Defending yourself through the legal system makes you a special target of the government.
That is flat-out chilling and un-American. Anyone with this mentality presuming to be our nation’s top law enforcer is terrifying.
Eric Holder’s easy embrace of the tools of the police state morally disqualifies him from our country’s top law enforcement position. Regardless of your political persuasion, Republican or Democrat, this should outrage you. Please join me in opposing his confirmation.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m1d8-Another-reason-to-hold-Holder
Whether climate change is man made, or nature made, I would still like to see the nations of the world stand together, and work together at cleaning up air/water/soil pollution, and cleaning up toxic waste spills, or deposits, or accidents…
I would still like to eliminate some of the health hazards which ARE man made(ummm human made)…. instead of just seeing people argue over whether climate change is natural, or human caused….
“Nathaniel cannot understand that science is about the science, not the scientist.”
Cause everyone knows, scientists don’t hold political views.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 11:21 am
It is amazing how the mind of a liberal nitwit like cosmos thinks.
I wouldn’t even go so far as to call her liberal. Utterly blinded by the religion of Gore and the political machine (and proven liar) the IPCC.
————————
cosmos_originally posted January 8, 2009 at 5:33 pm
StevenEDavis posted January 8, 2009 at 5:17 pm
“What if no one plays with Captain Cosmos?”
It’ll never happen. You guys are obsessed with Cosmos.
—————
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the three obsessions above.
In addition to my previous post about “wiki”, not that I am proclaiming myself as an authority; I am basing my opinion on the individuals that “profess” their expertise in the classroom (my college professors. I would not consider most of what is written on the OL scholarly writing so the rule may not be applicable here.
The science like this?
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=41&tstamp=200709
That proves climate change is naturally occurring and cyclical?
Or like all the posts I have made here today? Nah, that blasphemies cosmos’ religion. Let’s pretend it never happened.
So cosmos, if you aren’t getting a piece of the billions wasted perpetrating this fraud, what a fool you are. 8 years of declining temps. Hundreds of thousands of years of climate cycling. And you still cling to the farce? For free? Tee hee.
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the three obsessions above.
Broken record – snick -
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the three obsessions above.
Broken record – snick -
Their main obsessions seem to be their hatred of Al Gore (’strawman’), Socialism, and carbon taxes (ideology, free-market principles).
Plus an ability to completely block out climate science, by using the three obsessions above.
Broken record – snick -
**************************************************
Don’t see any science there cosmos, just ad-hominems
fleettwood posted January 9, 2009 at 11:46 am
Cause everyone knows, scientists don’t hold political views.
——————
Okay fleettwood, tell us the political views of Arrhenius in the 1890’s, and all the other climate scientists who agree with the AGW theory since then.
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/timeline.htm
“The sky is falling, the sky is falling…” Chicken Little. How’s that for a credible reference?
Hahahahahahaha
Here’s some refuting science cosmos – Down trending temperatures.
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/TEMPSvsCO2.jpg
The science like this?
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical03.jsp
That proves climate change is naturally occurring and cyclical?
Ahhh, pick and choose cosmos. You want to go back? Let’s go waaaaaaaaaaay back. Even a non-scientist like you cosmos can see the trend.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=41&tstamp=200709
SIXTH AMENDMENT >>>>
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment06/
“Let’s go waaaaaaaaaaay back.”
Yeah. And meet the Butt sisters.
gottafindawoman gottafindawoman
My momma says that gators is mean cuz thay have bad teefs…Adam Sandler “The Waterboy”
SolDevVB
Time will tell. Enjoy your AGW denial, until reality forces you to admit that you are/were wrong.
Tiiii – iiii – iiime
Is on my side.
Yes it is.
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/TEMPSvsCO2.jpg
Oh yeah, and enjoy your piece of the billions wasted on the farce. Unless you were dumb enough to do this for free – tee hee.
By the time there are any dramatic changes in the climate…we will be long gone from this life. So I ask, in a hundred years, what will our opinions matter? The elements have been put into motion and there isn’t a darn thing anyone can do about it, except, always do the best that we can to make this place a better world to live in. That is, unless anyone here has any influence on the climate and if you do, would you do me a favor and make it sunny with a high of 75.
Brave New World – Coming to a country near you!!
Britain’s First Breast Cancer Gene-Free Designer Baby Born Friday, January 09, 2009
LONDON —
The first baby girl in Britain to have been screened before conception for a genetic form of breast cancer has been born, doctors said on Friday.
While a first in Britain, the strategy has been used elsewhere across the world to screen for the cancer-related BRCA1 gene variant, and the technique has also been previously applied by British doctors to avoid the transmission of other cancers and diseases.
In the current case, doctors at University College Hospital in London (UCL) had created a number of embryos through in vitro fertilisation (IVF) for the baby’s parents and screened them for the variant BRCA1 gene.
Women who carry this genetic variation have an 80 percent chance of developing breast cancer and a 60 percent chance of suffering ovarian cancer during their lifetime, and the couple’s children were at very high risk of inheriting the gene. However, carrying the gene does not make cancer inevitable.
“This little girl will not face the spectre of developing this genetic form of breast cancer or ovarian cancer in her adult life,” said Paul Serhal, Medical Director of the Assisted Conception Unit at UCL.
The parents will have been spared the risk of inflicting this disease on their daughter. The lasting legacy is the eradication of the transmission of this form of cancer that has blighted these families for generations.”
The mother and baby girl, who have not been identified, are doing very well.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 11:54 am | Permalink
The science like this?
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical03.jsp
That proves climate change is naturally occurring and cyclical?
_______________________________________
That’s right cosmos. If you go back even further you can see that it about to go down. Global warming a climate change is all relative.
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical02.jsp
cosMo,
cosMo, Thanks for admitting I’ve been right. The overall trend is down.
Could it be that CO2 follows warming instead of vice-versa?
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical02.jsp
Cosmos,
If it is about the science as you try to claim here then why is it that you spend so much time trying to discredit anyone who says anything about Global Warming tha contradicts AGW?
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 12:09 pm | Permalink
SolDevVB
Time will tell. Enjoy your AGW denial, until reality forces you to admit that you are/were wrong.
_____________________________
Time will tell but until then, lets not mandate, tax and regulate when our economy is in the pooter. Let’s not RUSH to judgment.
Too bad you might not have a job in the future if AGW proves to be wrong.
It is so cool how cosmos owns all you cons.
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Cosmos,
If it is about the science as you try to claim here then why is it that you spend so much time trying to discredit anyone who says anything about Global Warming tha contradicts AGW?
————–
Because it is about the science.
Cosmos,
Saying it is about the science is not an answer.
Nitwit.
Yeah right BJ, That’s why it’s been more nearly 40 minutes since he’s replied.
Of course I don’t expect you feeble mind to understand why.
There she goes slipping into cranky old gramma character.
“Homie” heh.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 12:47 pm | Permalink
Because it is about the science.
**************************************************
For cosmos, it is about selective science.
icecap.us/images/uploads/TEMPSvsCO2.jpg
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=41&tstamp=200709
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 12:47 pm | Permalink
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Cosmos,
If it is about the science as you try to claim here then why is it that you spend so much time trying to discredit anyone who says anything about Global Warming tha contradicts AGW?
————–
Because it is about the science.
________________
ALL the science, not just the science that promotes the hypothesis and declaring it’s “settled”.
It is settled. Witness the only people left in denial. Cranks, religious kooks, etc.
Sol,
Did you notice the same graph on the link cos, provided?
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Tiiii – iiii – iiime
Is on my side.
Yes it is.
————–
Until the thin, fragile, one-year ‘1979-area’ Arctic sea ice rapidly melts later this year.
Until there’s an El Nino in the next few years, which pushes global temperatures higher than caused by the record warm El Nino in 1998.
Until more people understand how you AGW deniers use multiple lies and deceptions.
So enjoy your AGW denial, until reality forces you to admit that you are/were wrong.
Yup. Guess she doesn’t want to talk about that though.
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Cosmos,
Saying it is about the science is not an answer.
Nitwit.
——————-
It is the answer, because it IS about the science.
Nathaniel cannot understand that it takes science to refute science.
Nathaniel cannot understand that science is about the science, not the scientist.
Nathaniel cannot understand scientific methodology.
Nathaniel believes that mere opinions, such as the LIES from the agricultural economist Dennis Avery, are sufficient to refute the AGW theory.
Nathaniel is wrong, and very confused.
cosMo,
So you admit, you rely heavily on the computer models?
Comos,
None of your statements mean anything in regards to us being able to stop any of that or that in fact we are causing it.
Have you come up with an answer on what the perfect temperature of Earth is supposed to be?
Why is it that before the Industrial age the temperature changed?
What was causing it then?
The entire idea that we are causing a temperature change, that the change is bad, let alone that it is so bad that if we don’t act now it could be too late is a joke.
And only nitwits like you fall for it.
The only thing I can’t figure out is if you are really just naive enough to believe all that garbage or if you are a socialist green anti-capitalist nitwit who wants to see government controls on industry and see this as a great way to do it.
Or until the next 10 – 15 years makes you look the fool you are. You know that big orange ball in the daytime sky? Come to find out, that is what keeps the globe warmer or cooler. Notice the lack of sunspot activity and the cooling of temperatures?
icecap.us/images/uploads/TEMPSvsCO2.jpg
Cosmos,
There you go again attacking people who disagree with AGW. Where is the science in that?
cosMo, Your constant use of “denial” only proves your zealous “BELIEF”.
Nathan seems unable to realize that his opinion is not only in the minority but actually on the fringe of the minority.
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 1:04 pm | Permalink
Nathan seems unable to realize that his opinion is not only in the minority but actually on the fringe of the minority.
That a fact junior?
Recently, more and more scientists are summoning the courage to speak out and present evidence against the global warming rope-a-dope.
Atmospheric scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said, “It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.”
Dr. Goldenberg has the company of at least 650 noted scientists documented in the recently released U.S. Senate Minority Report. It notes how more than 650 international scientists dissent over man-made global warming claims. “Scientists continue to debunk ‘consensus’ in 2008,” it notes.
The scientists — not environmental activists — include Ivar Giaever, Nobel Laureate in physics, who said, “I am a skeptic. … Global warming has become a new religion.”
Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an environmental physical chemist, said warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history. … When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.”
“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming,” said Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.
Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh, said, “Many (scientists) are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.”
The fact of the matter is an increasing amount of climate research suggests a possibility of global cooling.
Says geologist Dr. Don J. Easterbrook, a professor emeritus at Western Washington University:
“Recent solar changes suggest that it could be fairly severe, perhaps more like the 1880 to 1915 cool cycle than the more moderate 1945-1977 cool cycle. A more drastic cooling, similar to that during the Dalton and Maunder minimums, could plunge the Earth into another Little Ice Age, but only time will tell if that is likely.”
Geologist Dr. David Gee, chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress, currently at Uppsala University in Sweden, asks, “For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand … that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?”
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Cosmos,
There you go again attacking people who disagree with AGW. Where is the science in that?
————–
Nathaniel, WHERE is your science?
Where is the credible, peer-reviewed, replicated science that refutes the many decades of science supporting the AGW theory?
And show us the science, instead of more of your lame Jr. high-school debate stalling tactics.
LOL! SolDevVB drags out Marc Morano’s bogus ‘650′ list.
AWG want’s to enact Draconian laws and mandates.
The use of ethanol(corn and sugar) for fuel have effected food prices causing starvation.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/why_ethanol_pro.php
The mandated green light bulbs could be dangerous.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7172662.stm
LOL, cosmos can’t refute the statements made by the scientists.
I laid them out, one by one. Please refute each.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 1:02 pm
You know that big orange ball in the daytime sky? Come to find out, that is what keeps the globe warmer or cooler.
——————
Right. . . just ignore the “greenhouse” effect, which makes Earth about 60 deg. F. warmer, and prevents wild day/night temperature swings.
Solie would be an example of a crank.
“Please refute each.”
He will you stupid dope idiot fool jerk deny-er. He’s consulting the Thesaurus for more names.
BlueJay would be an example of both a tool and a useful idiot.
It’s 60 degrees here in Kansas on January 9th.
My kids will probably have to live the consequences. So I guess I’ll go enjoy the nice day in the middle of winter.
Cosmos,
There you go again. How can I show you my “credible” science when you automatically dismiss anything that is against AGW as not being credible?
Idiot.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 1:18 pm
LOL, cosmos can’t refute the statements made by the scientists.
I laid them out, one by one. Please refute each.
——————-
You don’t need 650 opinion statements.
You just need credible science that refutes the AGW theory.
You do NOT have that, so instead, Marc Morano compiled a list of 650 opinions, misquotes, etc.
Right…. just ignore those down trending temps and record ice growth…
Then refute them. Be a big girl. That is what you ask of everyone else right? So refute that each statement was not made.
http://www.globalwarming.org/node/2754
Here you go cosmos.
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Cosmos,
There you go again. How can I show you my “credible” science when you automatically dismiss anything that is against AGW as not being credible?
Idiot.
——————–
And there you go again, Nathaniel. You LIE about me, and attack me, because you do NOT have any credible science that refutes the AGW theory.
It’s not my fault that your opinion is NOT supported by science — it’s your fault.
Here you go cosmos –
http://www.globalwarming.org/node/2754
I found an interesting link ..
[ http://www.live-tv-bar.com/index.php?mid=13 ]
.. if you find the “news” section on the LH column .. the very bottom link of that section is “Ramattan – Israel” (Palestinian news agency) . . . .
This link will take you to a non-interruptive-non-stop sky-line view of Gaza .. video and audio
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Then refute them.
——————–
I already did. They are opinions, out-of-context misquotes, etc, not science.
How “slow” are you SolDevVB? You need science to refute the science of the AGW theory.
I’ve given you the data. Down trending temps and growing sea ice. But I guess you don’t want to talk about that science do you.
I’ve given you over 300,000 years showing the cycle of climate change, but that science doesn’t fit your agenda.
You make things perfectly clear. “Look at what I want you to look at. Nothing else is science”
Crystal cosmos, crystal.
In an article that appeared on globalresearch.ca in November of last year, he contended, “Rather than the drastic global warming at a rate of 0.5C per decade, historic records suggest global cooling for the first several decades of the 21st century.”
Based on oxygen isotope ratios from the GISP2 Greenland ice core, he shows a graph which indicates alternating climatic warming and cooling has occurred about every 30 years since 1470, well before atmosphere carbon dioxide began to increase.
He also says the global warming of the past century of 0.8C in “virtually insignificant when compared to the magnitude of at least 10 global climate changes in the past 15,000 years.”
Easterbrook also points out none of those changes could be laid at we humans’ door because they all took place long before our carbon dioxide emissions began.
To back up his warning of chilly times ahead, he notes that last year NASA satellite imagery confirmed the Pacific Ocean had switched from the warm mode it had been in since 1997 to its cool mode, similar to that of the 1945-1977 global cooling period.
“That shift strongly suggests that the next several decades will be cooler, not warmer as predicted by the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change).”
Just to cheer us all up, Easterbrook says that “recent solar changes suggest that it could be fairly severe, perhaps more like the 1880 to 1915 cool cycle than the more moderate 1945-1977 cool cycle.”
#
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink
It’s 60 degrees here in Kansas on January 9th.
My kids will probably have to live the consequences. So I guess I’ll go enjoy the nice day in the middle of winter.
____________________
How many time have we heard the phase “weather is not the same as climate”?
They’re experiencing record cold in Alaska and Europe.
And you still can’t refute the statements made by the scientists.
Cosmos,
What science?
There is not any peep reviewed science which clearly proves any AGW.
It is nothing more than a consensus framed through a political network.
“How “slow” are you SolDevVB?”
Didn’t I tell you he was looking for another word!
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I’ve given you the data. Down trending temps and growing sea ice. But I guess you don’t want to talk about that science do you.
I’ve given you over 300,000 years showing the cycle of climate change, but that science doesn’t fit your agenda.
————–
Okay… this is getting very tiresome. To summarize a few points:
SolDevVB cannot understand that La Nina causes short-term cooling trends, and El Nino in 1998 caused a large warm spike.
SolDevVB cannot understand that thin one-year Arctic sea ice is more easily melted than multi-year ice
SolDevVB cannot understand that much of the AGW theory is based on, and supported by, past natural climate changes.
Chapter 6 Palaeoclimate
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
“This link will take you to a non-interruptive-non-stop sky-line view of Gaza .. video and audio”
Let me guess.
Fireballs and explosions.
See dadman? Those get people maimed and killed.
And to you, that is somehow something to be celebrated.
Dude? You are sick.
But I’ll tell what else you are is honest. Because there are a whole lot more people of your faith who more quietly are feeling the same thing.
Some years ago, I had to make a decision. Being an atheist or anti God(if there is a God, I want no part of him) myself, I had to decide how to let my son make his own choices. SO I elected to never take him to church. I figured if he wanted to go he could pursue that when he was older.
Turns out he believes (or doesn’t) much the same as me. I’m glad of that. I find your faith seriously irrational and cruel.
Hey you good people,
Keep it down! I’m heavily invested in AGW. It won’t be long now before I can open Paradise Palms Resort and Surf Club on my tropical island in Hudson Bay! Please don’t go screwing that up.
Nathaniel posted January 9, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Cosmos,
What science?
There is not any peep reviewed science which clearly proves any AGW.
It is nothing more than a consensus framed through a political network.
————————-
And yet another Jr. high school debate stalling tactic from Nathaniel. . .
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 1:58 pm | Permalink
Hmmm. looks like opinion to me. Where is the science cosmos?
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Right. . . just ignore the “greenhouse” effect, which makes Earth about 60 deg. F. warmer, and prevents wild day/night temperature swings.
=======================
Evidently, you’ve never spent time in a desert where there are wild temperature swings from day to night.
And you still can’t refute what the scientists stated upthread.
I’m going outside to work on my tan.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 2:06 pm
And you still can’t refute what the scientists stated upthread.
————–
I will type slowly so perhaps you can understand?
I do not need to refute those opinions, misquotes, etc.
Those statements are NOT science.
You need science, to refute the science of the AGW theory.
However, in one notoriously-inaccurate dataset administered by a politicized scientist known to have close and long-established financial and political links with Al Gore and John Kerry, the reverse policy is followed. Older data are tampered with to reduce temperatures in the 1930s (which were in reality greater than today’s temperatures), while today’s readings (which ought to have been reduced to compensate for the effects of recent urbanization surrounding the stations) have been increased.
An instance of this tampering is the Santa Rosa station in the US, originally on a deserted
beach by a lake, now surrounded by a busy boatyard, and the thermometer is very close to a dark-painted, upturned boat. This change in the local circumstances, however, has not been
taken into account in the temperature readings (Figures 6a, 6b) –
Now there is some science for ya.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/monckton/temperature_co2_change_scientific_briefing.pdf
Even being close to the dark painted boat (which was not adjusted for) they still tampered with the data and made the down trending raw data into uptrending.
That the science you’re talking about comsos?
I like these statements by Easterbrook, an accomplished, peer reviewed Climate Scientist, with many publications on climate.
The announcement by NASA that the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) had shifted to its cool phase is right on schedule as predicted by past climate and PDO changes (Easterbrook, 2001, 2006, 2007) and coincides with recent solar variations. The PDO typically lasts 25–30 years, virtually assuring several decades of global cooling. The IPCC predictions of global temperatures 1° F warmer by 2011, 2° F warmer by 2038, and 10° F by 2100 stand little chance of being correct. “Global warming” (i.e., the warming since 1977) is over.”
Hansen makes statements based on science (read tampered with raw data). So as his statements (as the ones I posted) are opinions, as the ones I posted, they are to be discarded.
Hey, how about Hansen quits fudging his numbers and posts the raw data? I mean since what he says can’t be trusted, it is opinion, and his figures can’t be trusted, as he fudges them and or just discards them and uses last month’s figures, what the hell right?
Great science ya got there cosmos.
Regular
Posted January 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm | Permalink
**************************
Would that be science cosmos?
Ad-hominems against Easterbrook in three… two…
“There is not any peep reviewed science which clearly proves any AGW.”
If there was, would it have been done by baby chickens?
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 2:26 pm
That the science you’re talking about comsos?
————-
No.
But please continue wasting your afternoon posting innuendo and unfounded smears, because you people do not have any science to support your AGW denial.
After reading some of those posts upthread, I’m beginning to understand why the christians are so against abortion. They are going to need an awful lot of cannon fodder in their upcoming war to convert or kill those heathen Muslims!
To illustrate the endpoint fallacy, we shall show the global mean surface temperature trends
since 25 years ago, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago and 5 years ago –
Table 1
Period From–to Global trend
25 years 1984-2009 +1.92 °C/century
20 years 1989-2009 +1.87 °C/century
15 years 1994-2009 +1.42 °C/century
10 years 1999-2009 +1.15 °C/century
5 years 2004-2009 –3.09 °C/century
The successive trends show an accelerating decline, so that in the past five years global
temperatures have been falling at a rate equivalent to >3 °C/century. The table illustrates
the extreme sensitivity of the temperature trend to the choice of endpoints.
Plainly, a longer perspective is needed. Akasofu (2008) finds that for 300 years, between
the end of the 70-year Maunder Minimum in 1700 and the end of the 70-year solar Grand
Maximum in 2000, global temperatures rose at 0.5-0.7 °C/century.
For 275 years of this 300-year period, humankind cannot have had any significant influence over the trend. In the past 25 years there has been no anthropogenic acceleration of this long-running trend. The increase in temperatures over the past 300 years parallels, and was probably chiefly caused by, a very rapid increase in solar activity, as measured by sunspot numbers (Fig. 10):
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/monckton/temperature_co2_change_scientific_briefing.pdf
All that science and er’y thang…
Let’s see, Easterbrook’s resume as a climate scientist.
Current Research Projects
* Cause of the global climate changes, global warming
* Cause of abrupt global climatic changes at the termination of the last Ice Age.
* Relationship of 25-year, glacial, and ocean warming and cooling cycles to solar irradiance and global warming
* Relationship of atmospheric cosmogenic isotope (10Be, 14C) production rates to global climate change
* 14C, and cosmogenic 10Be isotope dating of glacial deposits in the Cascade Range, Sawtooth Range, New Zealand Alps, and the Argentine Andes and Columbia Plateau
* Correlation of Quaternary interhemispheric climate changes
* Measurement of radiocarbon marine reservoir values
* Early Holocene glaciation of the Cascade Range
* Tephra and lahar chronology of Mt. Baker
* Interpretation of LIDAR imagery of glacial topography in western Washington
* Use of shorelines to determine isostatic uplift rates in the Puget Lowland
* Cause of debris torrents
Pity about the babies and children dying in Gaza, though.
Eight years of America ignoring the region does not seem to have helped much…
Let’s look at some of the important parts…
“For 275 years of this 300-year period, humankind cannot have had any significant influence over the trend.
In the past 25 years there has been no anthropogenic acceleration of this long-running trend.
The increase in temperatures over the past 300 years parallels, and was probably chiefly caused by, a very rapid increase in solar activity, as measured by sunspot numbers (Fig. 10):”
Statement by Dr. Easterbrook:
Actually, it’s not that at all. For a number of interviews, especially in the national news media, they ask ‘Are you a Republican?’ and I say ‘No, I’m not, as a matter of fact, I voted for Al Gore. I don’t want to pick on him because he’s not a scientist.’ The nonsense he spews comes from the IPCC [United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change], so in a sense I don’t condemn him as much as I do the so-called climatologists like [James] Hansen, who says things that are idiotic. They’re the ones giving him all this stuff. He’s a propagandist, not a scientist, so I cut him a little slack. But, the things he does, the things he says, are so outrageous, I don’t forgive him anymore. For example, when he says things like ‘people like me are right in there with the flat earth theory’. He says the debate is over. The debate is not over—it’s just getting started. There’s a huge uproar in the scientific world because in the last ten years, the climate has cooled slightly, but the media won’t tell you that. This year is a big downturn, you can’t miss it. Global warming simply ended in 1998, but the public doesn’t know it.
DON J. EASTERBROOK DISTINGUISHED SCIENTIST AWARD: THE ORIGIN OF HEINRICH EVENTS
CLARK, Peter U., Department of Geosciences, Oregon State Univ, Corvallis, OR 97331-5506, clarkp@onid.orst.edu
Heinrich events (HEs) are widely believed to represent an ice-sheet instability that triggered abrupt climate change. Several mechanisms have been invoked to explain HEs, including binge-purge oscillation, which operates independently of climate, and ice-shelf collapse induced by surface forcing. However, existing stage 3 sea-level records dispute the binge-purge hypothesis by showing that sea-level rises (falls) during the predicted binge (purge) period, and HEs occurred during the coldest intervals in the North Atlantic, or the least likely time for surface forcing to cause an ice shelf to fragment. Fluckiger et al. (2006) implicate the ~1 m steric and dynamic sea-level rise that accompanies a collapse of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) as the primary trigger for HEs. Recent modeling, however, indicates that ice sheets are likely to be immune to such small sea-level forcing and significant sea-level rise occurred over a several-thousand year period prior to HEs during stage 3.
An additional mechanism by which climate change may trigger a Heinrich event by ice-shelf fragmentation involves a subsurface warming that develops at intermediate depths in the North Atlantic in response to a reduction or collapse of the AMOC. Model simulations indicate that, without an active AMOC and cooling of the ocean interior by convection, downward diffusion of heat at low latitudes warms subsurface waters to a depth of ~2500 m. Some of the heat accumulated in the subsurface is transported poleward causing a temperature inversion in the northern North Atlantic. Development of a subsurface warming following collapse of the AMOC is also evident in other models.
The plausible role of subsurface warming implies that HEs were thus responses to, rather than causes of, the shutdown of the AMOC. This conjecture is consistent with the observation that HEs occur at the end of a long-term cooling trend; such a cooling is likely caused by a reduction in the AMOC and expansion of sea ice. The synchronization of Antarctic and Greenland ice cores further places the HEs in the context of climate change occurring in response to a slowing AMOC. The bipolar seesaw pattern is most clearly expressed when Greenland is coldest and Antarctica is warmest, which is readily attributed to times of weakest AMOC; this is when Heinrich events occur.
StevenEDavis posted January 9, 2009 at 2:33 pm
“There is not any peep reviewed science which clearly proves any AGW.”
If there was, would it have been done by baby chickens?
—————-
Steven,
Nathaniel and the other AGW deniers get their science(sic) off of the floor of the chicken coop.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 2:47 pm | Permalink
StevenEDavis posted January 9, 2009 at 2:33 pm
“There is not any peep reviewed science which clearly proves any AGW.”
If there was, would it have been done by baby chickens?
—————-
Steven,
Nathaniel and the other AGW deniers get their science(sic) off of the floor of the chicken coop.
=======================
This would be a blatant lie or are you just ignoring what Dr. Easterbrook has researched on climate?
cosmos is a global cooling denier.
SolDevVB,
There are about 220 posts on this thread now.
Please try to add a few hundred more, with your bogus AGW denial copy/pastes.
I’ll save the thread later, and enjoy laughing at it in a few years, when you are proven wrong, and very foolish.
See cosmos, see cosmos squirm, see cosmos’s entire alarmist agenga go up in smoke. See cosmos disappear from the blog because he will have to hide his head in shame for promoting politically driven hogwash called AGW.
Regular,
Stop now with cosmos, my side is hurting from laughing.
okobserver posted January 5, 2009 at 9:37 am
Thirty years of sea ice data. The record begins at 1979, the year satellite observations began … Rapid growth spurt leaves amount of ice at levels seen 29 years ago.
————
bawksalot20 posted January 5, 2009 at 11:33 am
Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979
————
Nathaniel posted January 6, 2009 at 9:20 am
Anyone already point this out to Cosmos yet?
Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979
—————–
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 8:46 am
What Disappearing Sea Ice?
Currently being measured to be about where it was 29 years ago in 1979
————————-
‘Climate Change Cancelled! (Whew!)‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-change-cancelled-whew
“The modern day definition of terrorist or terrorism appears to be groups or an individual that are not of recognized governments that act independently of recognized governments and attack mainly civilian targets, although some military have be attacked.”-Regular
Ok…
But what the Hell does that mean?
And specifically by that definition my point is proven. Anyone and everyone are potential terrorists. Thus, The War on Terror is a war on the people.
I’m not sure this is your intent but you provide us with such comic relief we hope you won’t go away cosmos.
Just tone it down some…..it gets really boring.
Can you do any OTHER tricks?
Easterbrook…wow…he is not tainted…
The Bush Doctrine (a recap):
“If you are not with us, you are against us”.
Please try to add a few hundred more, with your bogus AGW denial copy/pastes.
I’ll save the thread later, and enjoy laughing at it in a few years, when you are proven wrong, and very foolish.
Sounds like opinion to me. And that you can’t scientificaly refute what I posted.
Stop being a denier cosmos. Embrace the cooling.
cosmos, is a blog the best you have to quote from? Perhaps there is a shortage of recent scientific studies that agree with your alarmist agenda.
Your thunder appears to have died out in the 90s along with Al Gore’s time in office.
Pleefer – here is a terrorist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go
I keeel yew.
bigotbawks,
I enjoy it when you laugh at my AGW posts, because (unfortunately) I will get the last laugh.
Arctic sea ice is at a very low volume, and easily melted.
There will probably be an El Nino soon, that will destroy your “no AGW since 1998″ lie.
There’s more AGW in the “pipeline”, even if we stabilized GHG’s very soon. — And more.
“I enjoy it when you laugh at my AGW posts, because (unfortunately) I will get the last laugh.”
When will our coastal cities be flooded?
SolDevVB,
Come on. . . make some more of your bogus AGW denial copy/pastes, so we can all laugh at you in the future.
CJM claims:
“I would also assert that the actions of Mr. Mahon are not Christian.”
Well, apart from your blatant blasphemy (since your god is supposed to be the only one in the position to judge the hearts of men) I can easily refute the notion you are a Christian. Christians are to hate their family if they want to be a disciple of Christ. They are also to sell off all their possessions. I’m assuming you have done neither. Yet I’m probably correct in thinking you assume yourself to be a Christian because you can pick and choose which tenets to follow as our murderous Christian friend has. Never mind the fact that your god has no problem with the slaughtering of unbelievers as it is one of the commandments.
But I do like the notion that you hold yourself superior to others. Pride, something often mentioned in the bible as being the downfall of men.
As for other comments, I wonder why my mentioning of the story makes me an apologist for Islam. But fundies are often delusional so they see things that aren’t present.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 4:17 pm | Permalink
There will probably be an El Nino soon, that will destroy your “no AGW since 1998? lie.
========================
But cosmos, isn’t El Nino entirely a natural event that has occurred thousands of years before there were thermometers?
How can El Nino, a natural be anthropometrically be warped into something unnatural; i.e. man made.
Hedging your bets hoping that El Ninjo will save your bacon cosmos?
fleettwood posted January 9, 2009 at 4:19 pm
When will our coastal cities be flooded?
—————
When, and how sharply will humans reduce GHG emissions?
When, and at rate, will thawing permafrost release GHG’s?
When will our coastal cities be flooded?
It’s a simple question.
There will probably be an El Nino soon, that will destroy YOUR “no AGW since 1998? LIE.
You have to answer these (and other, some still unknown) questions first.
When, and how sharply will humans reduce GHG emissions?
When, and at rate, will thawing permafrost release GHG’s?
To American_Way (posted 1-9-09 at 8:50 am):
Not to change the subject or anything, but I didn’t think anyone still believed shrub’s “War on Terror” was waged toward the people who started it. Even he has admitted that Iranians were not involved, nor were Afgans, nor did the radical muslims you mention come from those countries. He would not have had the courage to start a war with the countries which were really involved, and would never have received support to do so. He’s only Cheney’s puppet, anyway.
Enough of AGW arguments–neither side will convince the other until it’s too late.
It’s a simple question.
Oh cosmos, don’t get your shorts in a twist.
I don’t dislike you or even care that AGW is your passion.
BUT, to say not all of us care that much about it would be a real understatement.
I see your, along with Algore etc., AGW efforts as a real threat to the economy, and a comfortable life both now and in the future.
Actually, I see it as power and tax collection grab that is being perpetrated on good folks that care but can be duped.
Sure, there maybe something to it, but so what….man can do very little to nothing at all except destroy the economy and make it really hard on folks.
Just cool it for once….get it? Ha!
fleettwood posted January 9, 2009 at 4:42 pm
It’s a simple question
—————
These (and other, some still unknown) questions are NOT simple.
When, and how sharply will humans reduce GHG emissions?
When, and at rate, will thawing permafrost release GHG’s?
And your question cannot be answered until those questions are answered.
“And your question cannot be answered until those questions are answered.”
So it could be 100 years?
Or never?
bigotbawks,
You cannot understand the obvious difference between AGW science, and the policies needed to try to stop AGW.
Have you all seen this? This is a very clear video of the cop v “civilian” execution. If you don’t “get it”, there is zero hope for you.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/01/06/18559091.php
fleettwood,
You get in a car. You don’t know how many gallons of biofuel are in the tank, or what mpg it gets.
How many miles can you drive before it runs out of biofuel?
Yep: posted and awaiting moderation . . . had the “L” word in it.
“You get in a car. You don’t know how many gallons of biofuel are in the tank, or what mpg it gets.”
Nevermind. I’ll ask someone who knows his subject.
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/la-nina-and-pacific-decadal-oscillation-cool-the-pacific.pdf
Even with Pacific Decadal Oscillations (PDO), it looks like Dr. Easterbrook expects the temperature to continue increasing. See last graph on page 2. If the posts that Regular are giving us are true, it would seem that Dr. Easterbrook is not expecting the rate predicted by the IPCC.
Interestingly during the last Pacific Decadal cooling (from 1950 to 1980) the global and northern latitude temperatures went up over that period. Again see last graph on page 2 in the above.
Regular, if you are getting your posts off of the internet, would you please provide links to your sources, so that us Thomas’ who might doubt you could see for ourselves. Thanks.
Bellingham, Washington (where Dr.Easterbrook is from) is one of the prettiest places in this country – certainly in the lower 48 states.
Nah! it’s global cooling. Record cold and snow on the way for the east.
http://www.accuweather.com/news-top-headline.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&date=2009-01-09_21:55
Steven,
Some more about the PDO is here (a good reference site).
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Pacific-Decadal-Oscillation.htm
fleettwood posted January 9, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Nevermind. I’ll ask someone who knows his subject.
————-
Find someone with a crystal ball or time machine. Scientists are still trying to understand the increasing melt rate of the ice sheets, future human GHG’s levels are unknown, and future positive natural feedbacks are unknown.
“Find someone with a crystal ball or time machine.”
Smells fishy. What happened to the crisis? What happened to the flooded New York?
What crisis?
PU. It’s stinky to high heaven.
fleettwood,
What stinks is your blind assumption that everything will be wonderful in the future.
cosmos_originally,
I don’t mangle your nic, thinking enough of you to not do so. Please remember mine as well.
There are some posters I couldn’t care less about or what they do.
At least I give you credit enough to use yours as it is or your old one ‘cosmos’.
Thanks,
PS: Frankly cosmos, there are some posters that use “bigotbawks” that I think so very little of as to not care at all what they use.
I hope not to associate you with those seemingly low lifes, otherwise do as you wish.
“What stinks is your blind assumption that everything will be wonderful in the future.”
I see no reason to think otherwise. I asked. You failed. Miserably.
Thanks for the link, cosmos. That information seemed to be in agreement with what Dr. Easterbrook’s data and projections were saying in the link I gave. While there are periodic cooling periods, the long-term trend is a warming one.
And, your link also said the PDOs may not be the best index to judge global warming.
fleettwood posted January 9, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I see no reason to think otherwise.
——————
Like I said, what stinks is your blind assumption that everything will be wonderful in the future.
It wont, even if we reduce GHG emissions quickly.
Steven,
You’re welcome, and that site has lots of good info.
And yes, AGW causes a gradual long-term warming trend. PDO, El Nino, La Nina, volcanoes, and other factors cause short-term “noise” (cold and warm) that makes the AGW harder to see.
StevenEDavis
Posted January 9, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Even with Pacific Decadal Oscillations (PDO), it looks like Dr. Easterbrook expects the temperature to continue increasing.
==================================================
Wrong Assumption Steven Davis
Comparisons of historic global climate warming and cooling, glacial fluctuations, changes in warm/cool mode of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), and sun spot activity over the past century show strong correlations and provide a solid data base for future climate change projections. The announcement by NASA that the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) had shifted to its cool phase is right on schedule as predicted by past climate and PDO changes (Easterbrook, 2001, 2006, 2007) and coincides with recent solar variations. The PDO typically lasts 25-30 years, virtually assuring several decades of global cooling. The IPCC predictions of global temperatures 1° F warmer by 2011, 2° F warmer by 2038, and 10° F by 2100 stand little chance of being correct. “Global warming” (i.e., the warming since 1977) is over!
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/29/don-easterbrooks-agu-paper-on-potential-global-cooling/
This is way cool:
http://vimeo.com/1778399
“Wrong Assumption Steven Davis.”
I am going to refer you to this link by Dr. Easterbrook. Look at the data and his projections (page 2 last graph), does that not look like a warming trend to you, James?
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/la-nina-and-pacific-decadal-oscillation-cool-the-pacific.pdf
I know this might be a little more nuanced than what you are comfortable with, but he is directly disputing the magnitude of warming stipulated by the IPCC – your cut and post says that. But his data does show an overall warming trend, but at a much lower magnitude than the IPCC and other such “alarmist” (as you refer to them) groups say.
And, I will say again, during the last “cooling phase” from 1950 to 1980, there was a warming trend – it ended up hotter than when it started. That in itself makes me wonder about the accuracy of calling the period a “cooling phase.”
Not trying to change your mind on this subject. I recognize the futility of that, but please interpret the black and white (data) accurately. Thank you.
Hey outlander!
Congratulations! The copy/paste that you thought merited “discussion” won an award!
Skeptic of the Week
The award for most skeptic arguments in a single article over the past 7 days.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/article.php?a=2240
They’ve been watching too much Lou Dobbs… He is on the Solar activity kick:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200901060014?f=h_top
Fortunately, I turned off my expanded tier with Cox (preferring to get more TV off the ‘net) so I wont be directly infected by Fox News (sic).
But it IS amazing to see the crap Fox peddles . . .
“Yes, they’re trying to bring Franklin Roosevelt down to George W. Bush’s level. ”
“In recent days, Fox News anchors and contributors have falsely asserted, repeatedly, that people who don’t pay taxes would be eligible for a $500 individual tax credit included in President-elect Barack Obama’s proposed economic recovery plan”
“Promoting upcoming Fox show, Beck — who has called Obama “a Marxist” and criticized “Comrade Clinton” — decries communist name-calling “
I see what you are looking at and it well within scalar anomaly. That is, the 0.25 to 0.30 upward trend of a 0 to 1 scale over the next eight years is statistically insignificant as one must consider the cooling trends along with the heating up trends.
The temperatures from 2040 to 2080 are more or less zeroed out by the cooling trends from 2080 on out.
This is what Easterman is saying – that warming and cooling trends are cyclical and if you compare similar trends in the 1930s and 1940s, there is nothing out of the ordinary the cycles indicated.
Short range trends tend to fool the analysis, unless one looks how long it takes for an oscillation to cycle phase through its entirety.
I’ve seen some projections that it takes 100-150 years for oscillations to complete their cycle of different phases for warming and cooling.
wow
http://www.chron.com/mm/iss/
Expansion of the International Space Station continues. Use the arrows to follow the construction history of the ISS before the installation of Harmony, and see its planned growth over the next few years.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink
SolDevVB,
Come on. . . make some more of your bogus AGW denial copy/pastes, so we can all laugh at you in the future.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink
There will probably be an El Nino soon, that will destroy YOUR “no AGW since 1998? LIE.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 4:26 pm | Permalink
You have to answer these (and other, some still unknown) questions first.
When, and how sharply will humans reduce GHG emissions?
When, and at rate, will thawing permafrost release GHG’s?
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 5:35 pm | Permalink
fleettwood,
What stinks is your blind assumption that everything will be wonderful in the future.
**************************************************
Y’all seen a fish out of water? That flailing thrashing in the bottom of your boat?
This is cosmos. Thrashing around. Not even capible of admiting the cooling over the last 8 years.
Desperation. It does have a distinctive smell. cosmos has bathed in it.
DavidB posted January 9, 2009 at 7:45 pm
They’ve been watching too much Lou Dobbs… He is on the Solar activity kick:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200901060014?f=h_top
——————-
Dobbs’ program was pathetic. Why does CNN let clowns like D’Aleo spread his bogus theory about solar driving the recent warming?
Dobbs’ program was pathetic. Why does CNN let clowns like D’Aleo spread his bogus theory about solar driving the recent warming?
How sad that you don’t have science to support yourself. You may have moved beyond big girl panties cosmos. It might be time to think about Depends before you wreck another skirt.
This is SolDevVB’s ignorance.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.B.lrg.gif
SolDevVB cannot understand that land warms faster than oceans, and there is more land in the Northern hemisphere.
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 4:26 pm | Permalink
You have to answer these (and other, some still unknown) questions first.
When, and how sharply will humans reduce GHG emissions?
When, and at rate, will thawing permafrost release GHG’s?
This is cosmos demise. She can’t understand the millions of variations in the Earth’s climate that refute the IPCC’s pathetic climate models.
Hey, cosmos, how often have the models been correct? Ever heard of the chaos theory?
Hey cosmos, here is a slow ball for you. Easy one. Hit it out of the park OK? Scientifically deny that the globe has not cooled over the past 8 years. Use the past 8 years only please, we’ll wait….
The Coldest Weather Possible In Nearly 15 Years
http://www.accuweather.com/news-top-headline.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&date=2009-01-09_21:55
Bitterly cold air bottled up over the depths of the Arctic will plunge southward next week, gripping the eastern two-thirds of the nation.
The frigid air will likely arrive in two waves. The first shot will blast the Midwest and Northeast early next week. The second, which will prove to be the harshest, will encompass virtually all places east of the Rockies by next weekend.
Growing Concern for Potential Snowstorms Next Week
A Plowable Snowstorm all the way to New York City
While Chicago has been hit by snow, New York City and other metropolitan areas are next for their biggest snowstorm of the season.
# Six to 10 inches of snow for parts of the Northeast.
# AccuWeather.com predicts 3-6 inches of snow for New York City.
# Widespread snow-related watches and warnings in effect.
# Major arctic blast destined for East.
# Growing concern for East snowstorms next week.
# Santa Ana Wind for Southern California.
# Raw video of the snowstorm hitting Chicago.
It’s hard, really hard to get to concerned about global warming when you are freezing and being buried in snow.
You’ve already lost solie.
I am wondering, what stake is it you have in holding your country back?
Investments maybe? I’ve seen that before.
Addressing global warming proactively is win win. Only those with some sort of stake in the status quo would fight it. What’s your stake solie?
Addressing global warming proactively is win win. Only those with some sort of stake in the status quo would fight it. What’s your stake solie?
Outstanding junior, I post the same question to you. Scientificaly prove warming over the last 8 years. We’re waiting.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted January 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm | Permalink
This is SolDevVB’s ignorance.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.B.lrg.gif
SolDevVB cannot understand that land warms faster than oceans, and there is more land in the Northern hemisphere.
=======================
While that is true cosmos, the inverse is also true.
That is, land cools faster than water, which is the current temperature trend as SolDev stated in his 8:30pm post. :)
Baltimore mayor indicted for perjury, theft; Democrat faces 12-counts…
Democrat Mayor Sheila Dixon indicted
Counts of perjury, theft, misconduct in office among 12-count indictment.
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I’m gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust
A hundred examples would not move you. As you have shown.
With some deniers, it is their faith that drives them. Perhaps they feel that the ability of man to influence the planet makes their God seem smaller somehow.
How about you solie? What is it that drives your denial?
I have no denial of the proven cooling junior. Are you up to the challenge? Can you scientificaly refute the cooling of the last 8 years?
“Addressing global warming proactively is win win. Only those with some sort of stake in the status quo would fight it. What’s your stake solie?”
No it isn’t BlowJay, it a play right into the hands of the power grabbing, tax, spend and control freaks.
It’s a scheme, one not too cleverly disguised either, but one you BJ can’t figure out.
But then you are easily duped aren’t you.
Only the rich can afford carbon taxes. This is not good. There is no global warming. If offered a choice of gas stations, I will not buy Mobilgas or Exxon.
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/calgarybusiness/story.html?id=e8aecbbb-16c6-412d-8054-7e64e2b176ef
I am not junior to you in any respect.
I ask again, what is your self interest in holding America back?
Sol,
I expect the Global Cooling deniers to get more irrational and hateful as time goes on.
It is indeed hard to admit one is wrong and let loose of their false, self-made deities.
The American way of life is aspired to by a number of very populous nations.
We have only one planet. It cannot continue to support an exponentially consumptive and wasteful population.
SOMEONE must lead in addressing this. Not necessarily in the direction of privation but of change. I prefer it be the United States.
“It is indeed hard to admit one is wrong and let loose of their false, self-made deities.”
One might say that the false deity is the original one and save a step.
Oh yeah, I already did.
“I am not junior to you in any respect.
I ask again, what is your self interest in holding America back?”
Oh but you are ‘junior’, and what is your self interest in asking questions that do not relate, are disingenuous, and falsely misleading?
On judgment day there will be many on this blog their name not written in the Book of Life and cast down into the eternal lake of fire.
Wailing and gnashing of teeth will be unbearable to hear and it will be too late for the faithless.
“We have only one planet. It cannot continue to support an exponentially consumptive and wasteful population.”
Can anyone dispute this?
Whatever Regular, I make my bets in the real world. That’s where my kids have to live.
Kids? I thought you had just one son.
Are you populating your neighborhood Junior?
For readers, I do not wish to demean religion or faith beyond the blinders of a few of its practitioners.
MANY in the faith community are realizing it is important to be good stewards of the Earth.
“That’s where my kids have to live.”—BlowJay
That’s right BJ. then why are you subjecting them to the “Wailing and gnashing of teeth will be unbearable to hear and it will be too late for the faithless”, that Reg. described.
Is that what you want for your kid, is that what he’s going through now with you?
So, junior, you like cosmos can not refute the cooling of the last 8 years.
Thank you for playing. No parting gifts.
Your welcome. And like I say, you’ve already lost.
““We have only one planet. It cannot continue to support an exponentially consumptive and wasteful population.”
Can anyone dispute this?”
The question stands.
Can anyone refute the cooling of the last 8 years? No? Thank you for playing…..
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:08 pm | Permalink
““We have only one planet. It cannot continue to support an exponentially consumptive and wasteful population.”
========================
Your assuming that humans will live to such a point where there are no other variables that might reverse the rise in population or bring it to an end.
Theoretically, limited resources and exponential growth meet where resources are depleted and I suppose cannibalism takes place or some sort of harsh birth control.
Perhaps some evil nation will launch a sterility virus or perhaps out right kill entire nations.
It’s a scenario, but one that has several variables.
Your conclusion is based on a fulfillment that does not include intervention known or unknown.
8 years is how people measure time.
Take a look at how the glaciers are doing.
Are you SO confident that you are right? Even the smallest chance you are wrong is worth ignoring?
What’s driving that?
“Your conclusion is based on a fulfillment that does not include intervention known or unknown.”
Do you mean I do not believe God is going to show up before we wreck the planet and maybe we better start thinking that way?
Yeah that’s about right.
8 years is how people measure time
———————-
Actually, I use a watch.
junior,
Your household has been found to emit $1200 per week CO2 carbon offsets. This may or may not effect global warming, but we need that check to cover your carbon output. Is the check ready and covered?
“Are you SO confident that you are right? Even the smallest chance you are wrong is worth ignoring?” —BlowJay
And are you SO confident that you are right you are willing to institute draconian measures and taxes over what many doubt to be true, and who’s measures may not have any positive effect at all.
You simply want to jump from a frying pan you THINK may get warm right into the fire.
#
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:20 pm | Permalink
“Your conclusion is based on a fulfillment that does not include intervention known or unknown.”
Do you mean I do not believe God is going to show up before we wreck the planet and maybe we better start thinking that way?
Yeah that’s about right.
=====================
Your assumption is wrong.
If the population gets to a point where available resources might be threatened, then I imagine that governments will control birth rates and even though it may seem cruel, extending life beyond a certain age if one is diseased, elderly or incapacitated.
There were a couple of Star Trek TV serials that addressed this issue on alien planets. :)
Again, there are people of faith who are rightly thinking about their obligation to be good stewards of what they see as Creation.
But just upthread? A poster celebrated violence and destruction for the sake of his faith. More recently, we see posters who feel the planet is a throwaway because God is gonna come save us.
“statistically insignificant”
Frankly, James, I would question if you even have a remotely accurate idea of what that term even means.
Night chump… Thanks for playing, but as usual you are full of sh*t.
Science says the odds are with me bawks.
It’s the planet we’re playing dice with. I think we can lead the world in living in ways that are environmentally sustainable.
Don’t you? Or is it possible that I have more faith in America and in people than you do?
#
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:24 pm | Permalink
Again, there are people of faith who are rightly thinking about their obligation to be good stewards of what they see as Creation.
But just upthread? A poster celebrated violence and destruction for the sake of his faith. More recently, we see posters who feel the planet is a throwaway because God is gonna come save us.
===========================
Not all will be saved, many who just go through motions and think good deeds will get them heaven will find themselves left out of the Book of Life.
Doubters, unbelievers, procrastinators and the vain will find themselves in eternal torment.
It’s the planet we’re playing dice with.
——–
Actually, I’m paying dice with Leroy.
#
StevenEDavis
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:29 pm | Permalink
“statistically insignificant”
Frankly, James, I would question if you even have a remotely accurate idea of what that term even means.
Night chump… Thanks for playing, but as usual you are full of sh*t.
=======================
That’s not much of an answer Steven and I’m disappointed in your attempt to discount me in a negative manner.
Perhaps if you came up to the level of mature discussion, you will find my analysis is quite accurate and it may be necessary to amend your statements. :)
The GAME of “Life” has more pertinence to this discussion than “The Book of Life”.
We live in this world, not the next.
“It’s the planet we’re playing dice with. I think we can lead the world in living in ways that are environmentally sustainable.”–BlowJ
Just exactly what are you suggesting ‘we’ do to save the planet BlowJ?
I am saying life is hard enough without some taxing authority making it a lot tougher on everyone.
BlueJay
Posted January 9, 2009 at 9:02 pm | Permalink
For readers, I do not wish to demean religion or faith beyond the blinders of a few of its practitioners.
___________________________________________________
Sorry BlueJay, but I’m calling BS. You’re a Christian hater. You’ve made that abundantly clear over the last 2-3 weeks. Deny all you want, but your words and actions prove that you hate on the basis of religion.
“We live in this world, not the next.”–BlowJ
But not for very long in this world, and for a very very long time (time is a non factor) in the next.
I wonder if X has read the thread or is only reacting to one part of it.
I judge the faithful and treat them based on what they post here. No more no less.
“But not for very long in this world, and for a very very long time (time is a non factor) in the next.”
That is your belief and you are entitled to it.
How is it relevant (except to your respect to what you call Creation) in discussion as to this world?
I think Junior is coming to grips with his philosophical journey. He will find that doubt creeps up at each intersection and the encroachment of non-sustainable pessimism will overtake his rational thought.
That is, if it hasn’t already.
Take your meds James.
Good night BlueJay.
I think 20 minutes is enough.
X?
You waded into a discussion that you had not been part of to take a shot on me and then run?
That’s disappointing.
Now, it’s my turn.
“Sorry BlueJay, but I’m calling BS.”
You’re not sorry at all. You went out of your way to call “BS” on me and then make a poor case.
“You’re a Christian hater.”
Serious charge. I hate people with hesitation and they have to earn it.
“. You’ve made that abundantly clear over the last 2-3 weeks.”
About the same time since Israel began brutally murdering Palestinians? Also about the same time I tried to back two friends off fighting each other? If you have something to say say it.
“Deny all you want, but your words and actions prove that you hate on the basis of religion.”
And then you did. But you’ve made a poor case.
SolDevVB posted January 9, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Can anyone refute the cooling of the last 8 years? No? Thank you for playing…..
———
Can anyone refute that SolDevVB is 100% clueless about anthropogenic global warming science? NO! Thank you for reading SolDevVB’s stupid, idiotic posts. . .
“That’s not much of an answer Steven and I’m disappointed in your attempt to discount me in a negative manner.”
James, James, you discount yourself in the most negative manner every day. I feel very sorry for you.
Cue in a Rod Serling voice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Serling): Witness one James McCluer who lies by trying to dazzle all with his brilliance, but when that fails (as always) he attempts to baffle all with his Bullsh*t.
One last thought before going to bed: I really hate this thing between Jay and X. It troubles me greatly. I like both, can’t we all just get along – borrowing from Rodney King.
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 8:32 pm
The Coldest Weather Possible In Nearly 15 Years
…
It’s hard, really hard to get to concerned about global warming when you are freezing and being buried in snow.
———————-
bigotbawks seems to lack the tiny intelligence needed to understand the difference between weather in a small region and GLOBAL warming.
And cosmos, er ‘comatose’, lacks a real life.
What’s it like to have nothing in life outside an hysterical obsession that is revealing you to be the gullible fool you are?
Go away little mind, you bore me.
“Go away little mind, you bore me.”
Uh huh.
That must be why denial kooks have been on cosmos’s leash all day.
Ya know comatose, you are completely impotent to effect any change at all. You life’s work on this is meaningless.
If you think you are influencing anyone here toward your hysteria over AGW you are sadly mistaken.
I used to at least listen about AGW, but you have single handed shown that the whole concept is for totally inept imbeciles.
You are hurting your cause comatose, so just keep it up, you have become the village idiot.
“One last thought before going to bed: I really hate this thing between Jay and X. It troubles me greatly. ”
Me too. I asked for an explanation. And I see him posting on another thread so I know he’s around.
I didn’t start it. At least I have said I didn’t mean to. I’ll leave it there.
Hey comatose, I think instead of turning off the gas log stove tonight, I just let it go all night in your honor, ha.
Aren’t ya loving it?
Just face it BlowJ, NOBODY like you!
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Ya know comatose, you are completely impotent to effect any change at all. You life’s work on this is meaningless.
If you think you are influencing anyone here toward your hysteria over AGW you are sadly mistaken.
I used to at least listen about AGW, but you have single handed shown that the whole concept is for totally inept imbeciles.
You are hurting your cause comatose, so just keep it up, you have become the village idiot.
—————–
bigotbawks has proven to the world that he lacks the tiny intelligence to understand even the simplest basics of AGW science.
“you have become the village idiot.”
No, right now that is you bawks. You fronted hysteria with the “Obama supporter mutilates McCain supporter!” hoax and then you punked out on meeting me.
BlueJay sings
How low can you go?
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Hey comatose, I think instead of turning off the gas log stove tonight, I just let it go all night in your honor, ha.
Aren’t ya loving it?
——————–
Open some windows and set the thermostat to 95 deg F while you’re at it.
Be all the idiot that you can be, bigotbawks!
Hey comatose, how does it make you feel to have a mental deviant like BlowJay sticking up for, and defending you. How embarrassing.
That’s enough to destroy your credibility, as if you had any anyway.
#
StevenEDavis
Posted January 9, 2009 at 10:12 pm | Permalink
“That’s not much of an answer Steven and I’m disappointed in your attempt to discount me in a negative manner.”
James, James, you discount yourself in the most negative manner every day. I feel very sorry for you.
Cue in a Rod Serling voice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Serling): Witness one James McCluer who lies by trying to dazzle all with his brilliance, but when that fails (as always) he attempts to baffle all with his Bullsh*t.
=========================
Oh my Steven, why must you go on these diversion of juvenile outbursts.
You asked for me to discuss an issue of climate, which I did.
Are you struggling that my interpretation is correct and you cannot deal with the consequence of that?
Or are you engaging in yet another hypertensive episode of liberal self destructive behavior?
I know climate can be a challenging subject Steve, but perhaps you can refrain from your parade of expletives long enough to discuss it in a rational and adult manner.
Let the record note that earlier, bawks was trying to make nice with cosmos and ask him not to abuse nics.
comatose,
You make NO difference on AGW or anything else for that matter, none at all.
Not one, not a single person, is changing anything of any significant merit to effect any change at all in AGW that you drown on and on and on about.
If you were to disappear tonight, no one would notice as far as AGW goes, we’d only be happy for the silent peace we’d experience on the subject. And then in fleeting remembrance, we’d laugh and wouldn’t change a thing.
And comatose set the tone.
drone, not drown
“cosmos_originally,
I don’t mangle your nic, thinking enough of you to not do so. Please remember mine as well.”
A few hours changes your principles there bawks?
You really do make this too easy.
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 9:24 pm
And are you SO confident that you are right you are willing to institute draconian measures and taxes over what many doubt to be true, and who’s measures may not have any positive effect at all.
———————
Hey bigotbawks! Are you getting your combined “draconian taxes” and AGW denial messages from the fossil-fuel industry, or the right-winger/free-market groups?
Or from BOTH the fossil-fuel AND ideological groups?
Isn’t it “interesting” how those groups spew both messages?
TODAY’S BLOG SUMMARY:
COSMOS: GW
BOXLOCK20: IS NOT
COSMOS: GW
BOXLOCK20: IS NOT
BLUEJAY: LET ME SCREW W/ANYONE WHO WILL POST TO ME
COSMOS: GW – BUT I’LL RESPECT YOU IN THE MORNING
BOXLOCK20: IS NOT – I WILL RESPECT YOU
COSMOS: GW
BOXLOCK20: IS NOT
COSMOS: GW ANYONE DISAGREEING IS WRONG AND STUPID
BOXLOCK20: YOU ARE STUPID
BE SURE TO TUNE IN TOMORROW FOR ANOTHER EXCITING EPISODE OF COSMOS AND GW
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 10:51 pm
comatose,
You make NO difference on AGW or anything else for that matter, none at all.
——————
Oh course not bigotbawks — because you are not intelligent enough to understand even the simplest basics of AGW science.
Now go open some windows and set the thermostat on 95 deg F, so you can prove that ALL the scientists since the 1800’s are WRONG about AGW.
comatose,
You are going to lose much of your, at this point, unproductive life on this subject because not much of anything is going to be done.
No one is going to allow measures that measurable cause hardship on the economy and consequently themselves, and nothing short of that would make any difference. And I doubt man can effect it at all, hear…at all.
You are pi$$ing into a wind, and in case you haven’t noticed it is flying back on you.
What a waste!
Tell me one thing, one, that you have done to influence anything positive about AGW except sit at a computer and pontificate meaninglessly.
That’s you comatose….meaningless.
Bawks has been reduced to ranting.
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 10:52 pm
And comatose set the tone.
—————-
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Regular,
Stop now with cosmos, my side is hurting from laughing.
—————-
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I’m not sure this is your intent but you provide us with such comic relief we hope you won’t go away cosmos.
Just tone it down some…..it gets really boring.
Can you do any OTHER tricks?
Right blogmonitor,
Heck, I have thought comatose is just a passionate, but misguided and easily influenced young mush brain. But unfortunately it’s worse than that.
He/she’s whole existence at this point is meaningless with respect to accomplishing anything other than annoying people.
“Can you do any OTHER tricks?”
He can.
He can say he is going to show up to meet and then think he wins by punking out.
And I meant that sincerely…
CAN YOU DO ANY OTHER TRICKS, ANYTHING AT ALL COMATOSE.
What you are doing is meaningless, a simply worthless waste of time.
And with that I will waste no more of my time on you or it for tonight.
bigotbawks posted January 9, 2009 at 10:52 pm
And comatose set the tone.
—————-
bigotbawks posted September 5, 2008 at 6:52 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/open-thread-95-2/#comment-418568
‘Record ice loss in August‘
Oh no….panic, panic, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
cosmos, or comatose, by any other ‘nic’ is still a one dimensional bore.
Sorry cosmos, but who the heck cares?
He can say he is going to show up to meet and then think he wins by punking out
======================
I think you did that as well, BlueJay.
“I think you did that as well, BlueJay.”
Go ahead and tell it “ANTI”.
Then, it’s my turn.
bigotbawks,
Yes, I can do many things.
But you, bigotbawks, lack the intelligence to understand even the simplest basics of AGW science.
I posted a lot about AGW science today, BECAUSE bigotbawks posted a lot of falsehoods about AGW today.
Go ahead and tell it “ANTI”.
—————–
OK, you said you would show up to meet Reg. and you didn’t.
That’s not the full story “ANTI”. You know it. Tell it.
If it wasn’t so damned windy I wouldn’t be wasting my time with this damn blog.
Ok, you were scared of Nathan for some reason, tuff guy.
Are you going to ‘Tell it’ now?
Cause I kinda getting tired.
“Regular” is demonstrably insane. Nathan once bragged that he would bring a gun to a meetup to intimidate people. Nathan has also posted of making people disappear.
There were no seconds to the meetup between bawks and me.
“Regular” is demonstrably insane. Nathan once bragged that he would bring a gun to a meetup to intimidate people. Nathan has also posted of making people disappear.
——————
I have found all of that to be disproved. In fact you have called Regular a cripple incapable of general daily duties. I find it odd you would be scared of him. Also you have mocked and called Nathan many names, mostly of which were less than ‘killer like’.
Sorry BlueJay, you have lost even my interest.
Good night.
And here we are with the lies again.
I NEVER said I was going to intimidate anyone nor that was the purpose of bringing a gun.
Julie also said that her husbands gun was bigger, yet I don’t see you liberal cry babies making a big deal out of that.
Not only that, but KFG has said far worse about actually killing people with a gun in a thread and yet you liberals have no problem with her.
BlueJay, you selectively choose my comments and mischaracterize them to fuel your own paranoid stupidity.
And you still have the audacity to say you are not a liar.
Idiot.
“I have found all of that to be disproved.”
Show your work.
I’m a concealed carry permit holder, and carry when I like.
You think I’m going to be so immature as to take a challenge from a nitwit on a blog.
Damn you really are a dumba$$ BJ, more so than anyone I have EVER known.
“Sorry BlueJay, you have lost even my interest.
Good night.”
Mine too, sweet dreams, but get back to me on what your dear mother has to say about your behavior BJ.
I do believe that we could face far more significant problems if we were to be facing global cooling, than global warming…
I seem to remember that those who supported global cooling some time back, ALSO said it was being brought on by human-caused comsumption practices….
We were told to stop using aerosols, and styrofoam cups at meetings, and we had this huge scare about the growth of the gigantic hole in the ozone layer….
My goodness — all kinds of things that WE were supposed to be doing, that was going to bring on the next, sure to come, ICE AGE…..
Bottom line…. That movement, too, was based on the basic idea that all of humanity had the responsibility to be good stewards of the gift of the Planet(or Mother Earth, or Gaia, or whatever any group called it)
There was at least one fictional book written about the dangers of the coming ICE AGE —
It was called ” Creed for the Third Millenium” by Colleen McCullogh… author of “The Thornbirds”…. It’s a pretty good read….
I think that whatever is happening… warming… cooling…. ALL of humanity needs to work at being good stewards of our Earth… and stopping unnecessary pollutions, etc., when we can stop them…
If for that reason, and nothing more, the Kyoto Treaty is worthwhile…. which ever side of the warming/cooling issue we may choose to take…. It is all about being responsible for the world around us…
If we choose to not think about those to come after us, those to come after us will never forget what we have done…
I didn’t originate the concept of meetups.
Not with cons anyway. I had to be talked into meeting with cons by my friend? X.
The original author of the idea of meetups is Hank. I’ve met him several times. He is a creep.
Naathan,
“Not only that, but KFG has said far worse about actually killing people with a gun in a thread and yet you liberals have no problem with her.”
What KFG said here just yesterday would seem to disprove what you said here upthread.
Shouldnt be that hard to dig out her posts from just yesterday…. Hmmmm???
good night; good luck; god bless —-
whatever you conceive god to be!!
blessings ALL!!
so mote it be!!
WHy do you bother to even post to Bluejay. Isn’t it obvious that he THRIVES off even the most negative comments about HIM?
Cosmos, I can understand playing him, teasing him all day with his GW crap.
But bluejay? Reminds me of a bug. A mosquito. Buzzing around everyone’s faces as they try to carry on a conversation. Trying to sting, but doesn’t really have one, and everyone just swatting it away.
Why feed him?
“I NEVER said I was going to intimidate anyone nor that was the purpose of bringing a gun.”
Well I was not posting then.
But my understanding is you were going to bring a gun to “make liberals wet their pants.”?
Oh and thanks. I know that you are “ANTI” now.
Chas,
What she said yesterday doesn’t disprove her irrational rants of killing people in a thread in the past.
Only proves what an irrational idiot she is.
Parting thought >>> Perhaps we should all be more concerned about something like this???
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,478024,00.html
“Only proves what an irrational idiot she is”
And yet she has slept with more women than you.
BlueJay,
Were you trying to insult me? I am proud of the fact that I have slept with fewer women than KFG.
“Nathaniel” signed off at 12:51 am with –
“I am proud of the fact that I have slept with fewer women than KFG.”
I’m sure that’s true.
Even if she were monogamous.
“I am proud of the fact that I have slept with fewer women than KFG.”
Your “pride” is evident in your posts and personality.
kfg has on numerous occasions posted of several ex’s.
At least one ex-husband, an ex-wife or wives, ex-girlfriends. Seems to be a pattern there of promiscuity and a real lack of commitment in relationships. She even claims the lack of legal gay marriage (misnomer) is the cause of her multiple affairs with women and not her own lack of character. Shs is not the best poster child for the gay marriage promoters now is she.
BlowJ thinks he has a ‘chance at that’ I guess by issuing confrontational challenges, to me for one, on this blog to meet in a parking lot at noon. To what end purpose I don’t think even he has thought through, except to impress a gay women. Wow, is that confusing.
Personally I think they deserve each other.
I think I accomplished what I set out to do after letting BlowJ take himself to a Dillons parking lot and stand there like a dupe. I am hoping in the future BJ gives it a few seconds thought before issuing asinine challenges and shouting “coward” if initially ignored when someone doesn’t feel they must comply in meeting BlowJ’s childish needs.
“I think I accomplished what I set out to do ”
So did I.
The difference is, you keep trying to convince…yourself?
No need to convince myself.
Just responding to your lies which you continue to make.
“Just responding to your lies which you continue to make.”
Perhaps you’d care to point out the lie in my three sentence reply you reacted to?
Heheeh. HAHAHAHAHAAHAH.
I see that even when I’m not here, the cons are still obsessed with me and mine.
Bigotbawks’ definition of promiscuity?
Anyone who gets more than he does.
And in his case, that means anyone who gets any at all. But then, he’s refused to call out the divorced and remarried christians, so… we see the hypocrisy.
And nathan? Please repost where I threatened to kill anyone. Or to intimidate anyone by bringing a gun to a meetup.
As the wingnuts here say… PROVE IT! You said it, now you prove it. Looks like in nathan’s world, folks who refuse to kill, as I did the other day, are irrational. Got it!
I do think we are headed for civil war. Just read here and you will see, the only thing these con christians understand are guns, killing, and war.
Guns, killing and war = good
Making love = bad.
Got it.
Suppose that has anything to do with the fact their wives likely no longer wish to sleep with them? If they ever did?
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
I read the other day where pleef said a clitoris was just a “little wee wee”.
Dude, if that’s what you think? You need some serious pointers. No wonder your wife is up in bed, alone, reading while you are on the computer. She might be saying she’s tired, but I bet she’s glad she’s not being coerced into “other duties”.
She’s probably planning to buy you a new computer soon just to keep you occupied.
Just a little wee wee? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAH!
“I read the other day where pleef said a clit oris was just a “little wee wee”. Dude, if that’s what you think? You need some serious pointers.
Just a little wee wee? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAH!”–kfg
kfg sure seems to know how to amuse and a buse herself, but apparently nothing more about her body than base instinct.
clitoris: ‘clit oris is a sex ual organ that is present only in female mammals….pen is, which is homologous to the clit oris’
homologous: ‘homology refers to any similarity between characteristics that is due to their shared ancestry’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)
Ya buy them books and ya buy them books but some are just plain to slow to learn I guess.
Wow the moderation algorithm is fired up today.
Took three attempts at breaking up words to get it to stick.
And none of the words were, just biology.
Weird!
And none of the words were bad, just biology.
Good GAWD
And from his other link?
“Homology may refer to:
* Homology (anthropology), analogy between human beliefs, practices or artifacts due to genetic or historical connections.
* Homology (biology): similar structures due to shared ancestry.
* Homology (chemistry): a compound of a series differing only by repeated units
* Homology (mathematics), a procedure to associate a sequence of abelian groups or modules with a given mathematical object.
* Homology (sociology), a structural ‘resonance’ between the different elements making up a socio-cultural whole.
* Homology modeling, a method of protein structure prediction”
Hehehe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What a maroon.
I dont recall mentioning bigotbawks in my post about pleef and his misguided view of female anatomy.
Either bigotbawks is pleef, which I doubt, or he’s STILL obsessed with me.
Dance poodle, dance!
Heheh. I wonder if the fact that these two organs share “similar ancestry” could be used to support evolution?
Nawwwwwwwwwwwww.
I drank some homogenized milk this morning.
Homology may refer to:
* Homology (biology): similar structures due to shared ancestry.
Ya too dam+ dumb kfg to be able to pick out the one that applies, no wonder you are….what, 55+ but looking twice that old and worn out, with not enough education to know anatomy yet.