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More research into the Hobbit fossil confirms previous analysis that the Hobbit is not a modern human, as creationists claim, but a relative of modern humans. That’s the difference between science and creationism, science doesn’t begin with a conclusion.
‘Hobbit’ Skull Study Finds Hobbit Is Not Human
ScienceDaily (Jan. 21, 2009) — In a an analysis of the size, shape and asymmetry of the cranium of Homo floresiensis, Karen Baab, Ph.D., a researcher in the Department of Anatomical Scienes at Stony Brook University, and colleagues conclude that the fossil, found in Indonesia in 2003 and known as the “Hobbit,” is not human.
They used 3-D shape analysis to study the LB1 skull of the hobbit and found the shape of the skull to be consistent with a scaled down human ancestor but not modern humans. Their findings, reported in the current online edition of the Journal of Human Evolution, add to the evidence that the hobbit is a new species.
Unlike Hank I can post the link to the rest of the story:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090120144508.htm
Regarding last night’s proposed WE Blogger meetup, I stopped in the ANCHOR INN on near east Douglas last night about 5 to 5:30 PM. Visited with some other friends for a few minutes but didn’t see any groups that appeared to be WE Bloggers.
I didn’t see any untoward scuffling, punching, biting, cussing nor rants that would have identified a group of bloggers so I left … perhaps too early.
#
JWink
Posted January 24, 2009 at 6:22 am | Permalink
Regarding last night’s proposed WE Blogger meetup, I stopped in the ANCHOR INN on near east Douglas last night about 5 to 5:30 PM. Visited with some other friends for a few minutes but didn’t see any groups that appeared to be WE Bloggers.
I didn’t see any untoward scuffling, punching, biting, cussing nor rants that would have identified a group of bloggers so I left … perhaps too early.
—————————
Sorry I didn’t come in, I was too busy peeing on the tires after the Libs went inside.
“Sorry I didn’t come in, I was too busy peeing on the tires after the Libs went inside” — fibulus
Did you lift one leg?
I didn’t make it to the meet up. Mrs XXX had to work today (gets up at 4 am) and we don’t live in Wichita. I probably would have tried harder to make it if it had been a little more inclusive.
There weren’t many bloggers there. Mary said overandover it would get started about 6:30, so yes, JWink, perhaps you were too early.
Mary and Dave had lots of pleasant friends, family coworkers there and it was a pleasure to meet them.
The night was festive, I’m glad I went!
“beber” asks “Regular” –
“Did you lift one leg?”
I suspect “Regular” can pee only when sitting down.
Linda…. sorry I had to miss last night… I would hae been there, but I am out of town for the weekend….
Oh great. Let’s provide terrorists a birds eye view of former president Bush’s new home. Garmin will provide directions to the home, and the media supplies the house diagram from the air so anyone can attack.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7848688.stm
Some low lifes on the blog will make terrible comments about this. Typical. But then cry when someone makes similiar comments about their democrats.
If it was a big deal, the airspace would have been closed… I think you can trust the secret service to protect the former president and not resort to blaming video journalists for doing their job…
Bush will be fine… unless he get indicted by some war crimes body….
Bah.. I was at the bar having a bite to eat, trying to ferret out who the bloggers were… before I could determine who you all were, I saw some guy peeing on the Obama bumper stickers and had to give chase. He was far too fast for me.
(Actually I got called back to work.. where WERE you sitting?)
On the same BBC site, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7848991.stm
you can see the President laying out some details on the recovery plan…
I saw some guy peeing on the Obama bumper stickers and had to give chase. He was far too fast for me.
================
I am sorry. It was cold and I couldn’t hold it!
I didn’t notice the O’ sticker.
Scary thing on the tube this morning. Our state bush, the orange cone, is going high tech: They are building “smart” cones now. They will be programmed to roll themselves into whatever position is called for.
My question is: Will they be Democrat cones, allowing any car to pass, regardless of cars initial expense, or the people occupying it; or will they be Republican cones, pointing cars to various lanes based on cars initial expense and/or the base salaries of the occupants? This is a serious question needing six sigma like thought. Transgender minds want to know.
#
DavidB
Posted January 24, 2009 at 9:59 am | Permalink
Bah.. I was at the bar having a bite to eat, trying to ferret out who the bloggers were… before I could determine who you all were, I saw some guy peeing on the Obama bumper stickers and had to give chase. He was far too fast for me.
=======================================================
Regs got that 570 HP big block blown Chevy engine, getting 3mpg, but going from 0 to 60 in 2.7 secs. No wonder you couldn’t catch him.
Regs got that 570 HP big block blown Chevy engine (on his wheel chair), getting 3mpg, but going from 0 to 60 in 2.7 secs. No wonder you couldn’t catch him.
DavidB,
We were at the long table (made by putting tables together) with the red, white & blue balloons filled with helium so they stood upright about three feet in the air, that were just next to the wall with three Obama posters, all of which was in the ‘no smoking’ (east) side of the bar.
Sounds like it was hard to miss. But it was awful cold to have been ducking outside for a smoke.
BlueJay,
What do you do at your house? You don’t smoke inside do you?
I hadn’t ever been to The Anchor before but I think I will return. There are two sides (both inside out of the cold) and one allows smoking. Hubby and I ate before going but the menu selections and the food that was delivered to those eating there looked good. If you enjoy sampling different beers, this is a place you could do some serious sampling — they carry a bunch of beers!
Never been to the Anchor, but I do like the River City Brewery.
Good beer and Fish and Chips too!
I haven’t been to River City Brewery in a long time. When it first opened in the early 90s my son waited tables there while in college. We went one night and he was our waiter. I looked around and there was a kind of second-floor balcony around the perimeter. I asked him what happened there. He told me that was where they kept the dead bodies and illegal plants. Is that still the case?
Thanks to the few bloggers who showed up…I had a really nice time with you guys! And we had a good turn out with family and friends…LOTS to celebrate these days..a new chapter for our country and a new chapter in Dave’s and my life. I’d love to do it again sometime soon.
I really like the River City Brewery..good food and great atmosphere…maybe we good get together there in the near future.
I really enjoyed you and your hubby, Linda..you are such a sweet couple! It was nice spending time with Pre and Tom, also!
Couldn’t make it with work schedule – so Anchor is still a place I haven’t been to yet. Agree that the Brewery is a nice place – good food.
Dead bodies and illegal drugs?
Last time I was up there, just another bar, music, and I believe the usual fair of game tables or darts.
It was a joke. Or maybe in the days before they used the second-floor balcony for paying customers… ;-)
Are there any dimly-lit corners? Maybe there are multiple uses?
Nathan–Since you didn’t answer my questions yesterday, here they are again:
CapnAmerica
Posted January 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Permalink
Okay, I answered all your questions.
Now you answer mine: Does a just God sentence ten year old children of the Yanamomo tribe [in the Amazon rainforest] who die of Chaga’s disease to eternal damnation because they didn’t “profess with their mouths” that Christ is their savior?
How about the adults of the Yanamomo tribe?
How about the 1 billion Muslims of the world–who profess to worship the same God we do?
How about the 15 million or so Jews–who worship the same God we do?
How about the 376 million devout Buddhists? The 900 million Hindus? The 23 million Sikhs? The 7 million Baha’is that respect all religions?
The 4 million Jains that are so pacifistic and respect life so much that they refuse to drive cars lest they accidentally kill a bug?
Out of all these billions and billions, are you going to say that to be a Christian, you have to believe that not a single one will gain eternal life?
CapnAmerica,
1. There is scriptural support for what many call an age of accountability. It doesn’t really matter who the children are, but at some age when they understand that is when they will be held accountable. At least this is what I and many believe. There is definately no definitive answer to be had on the subject.
2. The Bible has a very clear message on Salavation. Jesus doesn’t say you must have faith in me, minus those people who have never heard of me.
I believe that God is indeed a just God. At some point in those peoples lives, even if it is at death, I believe that God will reveal himself to them and they will be given the choice.
I don’t believe this is a free pass into heaven. There is nothing that I know of from the scripture which would indicate anyone goes to heaven simply because they never heard of Christ.
Again, the question doesn’t have a very clear scriptural answer.
What is clear from the scripture is that one must hav faith in Christ and repent of their sins to be saved.
3. Muslims do not worship the same God we do. Christians believe that Christ is God. Muslims do not. How can you or they possibly argue we woship the same God when they don’t worship Jesus?
Again, what we know is that one must have faith in Christ to be saved and repent of their sins.
If someone openly rejects the diety of Christ, as muslims do, how can you argue that they are on the path to heaven?
This goes back to my question to you which you still dodge. Not everyone is going to go to heaven. Yes, as you always fall back to, God is the judge, but we have clear scripture which tells us those standards by which we will be judged and our salvation is dependant on. Faith in Christ. Muslims don’t have it.
4. Jews do not worship the same God that we do. Once again, we worship Christ, they do not.
5. Again, the scripture is clear that faith in Christ is required for salvation. You must ask Him for forgiveness and repent of your sins. Do any of the religions you list do this?
Do you think that the Bible is lying to us? That God was just joking around? That Jesus was just wandering around wasting his time telling people to have faith in him, teaching his disciples to spread the Gospels, all because in the end it doesn’t really matter because no matter what you believe you are going to heaven?
What about the 10 commandments? If people are worshipping a false God, something other than Christ, you think God doesn’t really care? Was God just wasting Moses time with the 10 commandments?
6. No, I am not claiming that not any of those billions will go to heaven. What I claim is what the scripture says and that is you must have faith in Christ to be saved. Again, I believe that a just God at some point gave those people a choice or will in the end, but there is not any clear scripture on that. What we know is that faith in Christ is the standard. Period.
Mary,
Thank you for the opportunity to “get out of the house” and for a super enjoyable evening! May life be even better for you and Dave on the new road. Blessings to both of you and yours.
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 11:53 am
__________________________________________________
Excellent post, Nathan.
I do not believe God will judge a person on whether or not they believe in Christ, or have even heard of Him. I expect a person will be judged solely on how they lived their lives. One can live a Christ-like life without even being aware of Christ. Would God deny them heaven then? I doubt it. Just as a Muslim believes in God and lives his or her life according to their religious beliefs, I doubt God would deny them heaven.
While the bible represents the word of God, it was written at a time of little knowledge, and written by man, ergo, it was written to be easily believed by the people of the time. Being a believer in Theistic evolution, I have no problem believing the bible at its word for the times.
The point is, all religions are faith based. As such, there is really no way of knowing which religion, if any, is a one true religion. A person that worships nature, and lives a just and honest life, has just as much right to the kingdom of heaven as one who believes in Christ as the Son of God. If God is a just God, how could it be any other way?
JM Walker,
“I do not believe God will judge a person on whether or not they believe in Christ, or have even heard of Him. I expect a person will be judged solely on how they lived their lives.”
If that is what you believe, fine. That is not what the Bible says nor what a Christian believes.
What do you base this belief on, if you don’t mind my asking?
“One can live a Christ-like life without even being aware of Christ. Would God deny them heaven then?”
Which “god” are we talking about? Because the Christian God, the God, clearly states that works will not get you into heaven. Your faith in Christ does. No one is perfect and no one will ever come close to the level of perfection it takes to be good enough.
It is about sin. Sin seperates us from God. Jesus is the only one who can clean that sin away and you must have faith in Him and ask for repentance of your sin.
So what if you live a Christ like life. You are still a sinner who has no faith in Christ and has not repented of your sins.
“I doubt it. Just as a Muslim believes in God and lives his or her life according to their religious beliefs, I doubt God would deny them heaven.”
Again, what “god” are you talking about? Are you a simple diest?
“While the bible represents the word of God, it was written at a time of little knowledge, and written by man, ergo, it was written to be easily believed by the people of the time. Being a believer in Theistic evolution, I have no problem believing the bible at its word for the times.”
Obviously not if you believe what you said above. The Bible has a consistent message of sin and needed t be cleansed of it.
Merely living a “good life” doesn’t cut it.
“The point is, all religions are faith based. As such, there is really no way of knowing which religion, if any, is a one true religion. A person that worships nature, and lives a just and honest life, has just as much right to the kingdom of heaven as one who believes in Christ as the Son of God. If God is a just God, how could it be any other way?”
These are your standards, not Gods, at least not the Christian God’s. No one has any “right” to heaven.
We are all sinners who fall short. We must humbly go before God and ask for forgiveness and have faith in Him for such.
Simply thinking you are good enough and have a right to heaven is the height of human arrogance.
Sorry.
Nathaniel posted January 24, 2009 at 1:42 pm
We are all sinners who fall short. We must humbly go before God and ask for forgiveness and have faith in Him for such.
————–
Nathaniel,
So have you asked God for forgiveness, for your posting lies about climate science?
I’d much rather be a good person than what I have seen represented as a good christian. If your God is as you represent him, I should have no hesitation at turning my back in his very presence.
I thought Christ was the SON of God the Father. And that God the Father was/is the God of Abraham. Wouldn’t tht then mean that all Abrahaimics are worshiping the same God? The God of Abraham and the Patriarchs.
Then there is another minor detail: Just who WROTE the collection of Books that are called the Torah or Bible? PEOPLE.
Ben the men who wrote the New Testament were men who walked with Jesus in the most part. They witnessed his death and ressurection. Some would call them historians. Some would say they weave a good tale. But historians agree that Jesus was a real man who did indeed walk among men.
Those who are bible believing Christians believe that he is part of the Trinity, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. God the Father is that I am. He is my creator. He gave the law to the prophets of old and in the book of Isaiah foretold the coming of Christ. He sent his Son so that the world thru Him might be saved. After the second birth of Christ when he assended into Heaven he left his presence in the guise of the Holy Spirit which I think lives in me today.
Very simplistic. My faith just as some believe in their own icons and idols. I would never tell them that they have to believe as I do but by the same token I would try to correct someone who is teaching falsely. I believe as Capn said this morning all have the right to hear the Word. What they do with that word is their own business.
And no before someone asks, I can’t explain where God was before there was nothing anymore than science can explain how life began.
Nathan, you ask questions, and offer your answers at the same time. I’m not going to get into an argument with you over which belief, bible, or God one believes in. You think the God of Christianity and the God the Jewish people believe in are not the same God; I believe they are, just as I believe the God of the Muslims is the same God.
What do I base my beliefs on? Twelve years of Catholic education, the bible, and personal beliefs in God being a just God. God moves in ways none of us can even begin to understand. Why is it many religions seem to put a limit on Him? In a song written by Dave Alvin, he wrote, “And I hate your grand Cathedrals, where you try and trap God.” When religions try to tell me what God can, can’t, will or wont do, my first reaction is to back away. And for the very reason man cannot know the mind of God, so how can man think he can?
One example of man and the bible is that in one of the Saints gospels is: If one person, looking down at hell from heaven above asks God to forgive them, God would. That was purposely left out of the bible because it looked like a too easy way out of hell. Does that make it not so?
There were major discussions by the clergy during the time the bible was actually put together as a book. This was during a time of three to seven hundred years after the death of Christ. The bible did not just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Hence, I have to accept the fact what was put into the bible probably had a bit of theocratic influence in its inclusions as well as its non-inclusions. So, while I believe it to be the word of God, I also believe man wrote it to reflect the times it was written in. That doesn’t bother me in the least; in fact it makes it more relevant, if one looks at it that way.
So, Nathan, while we both have our beliefs, our differences amount to nada in the eyes of the Lord. Discussions are fine, and one can learn from them, if he has a mind to:-)
okob – well said. The nature of the Trinity has been a matter of controversy even within the Church. I recall many interesting discussions about that and other things both growing up (Protestant) and in RCIA. As for the New Testament being written by those who walked with Christ I’m not all that sure. Paul is said to have had his vision but he came long after Christ.
“anymore than science can explain how life began”
Or even better – what was there before the “Big Bang”? Science definitely cannot explain THAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
lindainks55
Posted January 24, 2009 at 11:19 am | Permalink
I haven’t been to River City Brewery in a long time. When it first opened in the early 90s my son waited tables there while in college. We went one night and he was our waiter. I looked around and there was a kind of second-floor balcony around the perimeter. I asked him what happened there. He told me that was where they kept the dead bodies and illegal plants. Is that still the case?
—
When I lived in Wichita, the second floor was the home of Loft 150. Loft 150 has space for bands and dancing. There were also two or three very good pool tables (you have to pay by the hour; this is managed by checking out 1-15 plus the cueball from the bartender).
Back in the old days it was just called “the upstairs.” It was a great place back in the day. It’s also where a former major league baseball player who nearly batted .400 one season did a lot of damage (apparently) to his reputation. It was fairly wild (although not nearly as wild as anything in the 1970s-1980s, believe me), but if’n you were lookin’ for the dead bodies and illegal plants you needed to go downstairs, not up. ; > )
Last time I was there it had finally been tamed into “Loft 150,” and was about as wild as an Applebee’s.
JM Walker,
As I said, believe what you wish, but you can hardly claim to base it on the Bible. Well, you might be pulling whatever verses you want to from the Bible, but you are not reading the rest of them.
The Bible doesn’t support your belief. Again, it is fine if that is what you wish to believe, but that is not what the Bible says. It isn’t even what the Catholics say either.
So basically, your belief is based on what makes you feel good about God. Again, that is fine if that is what you want to believe, but lets recognize it for what it is.
You question the Bible and Christianity’s teachings while you base your own opinion on God on what? Cherry picking what makes you feel good or sounds good?
We do not limit God at all. I recognize that God is capable of anything. There is a HUGE difference in knowing that God is omnipotent and following his commands and saying God is omnipotent so we don’t have to follow any of his commands.
You are attempting to argue that merely because God is omnipotent that there are no rules, there are no commands, because if there were we are putting limits on God.
It is the other way around. God has chosen to interact with us this way and has given us very clear commands.
It is not anymore arrogant to say we have somewhat of an understanding of God based on His interactions with us throughout history and the Bible any more than it is for you to sit here and tell me that you know God.
So, how is it that you can give me your idea of what God is while in the very same post tell me that man can’t know the mind of God?
It is a self defeating argument. If you follow logic any at all you might be able to see that.
You obviously don’t believe the Bible is the word of God if you hold the very beliefs about God that you profess here.
I am not trying to be rude or insulting, but what you are claiming here about God doesn’t come from the Bible and contradicts exactly what the Bible does say.
So how do you reconcile claiming you believe the Bible is the word of God and then espouse a belief which is contradictory to the very things the Bible says?
Ben,
Christ is not just the Son of God, he is God. We as Christians pray in His name and worship Him.
Neither Muslims nor Jews do this. Both of them reject the diety of Christ.
If Christ is part of God as we Christians believe then the mere fact that Muslims and Jews worship what they believe to be the God of Abraham doesn’t mean they are actually worshipping the same God as we do.
If you reject any part of God, i.e. Jesus, then how can you still claim to be worshipping the same God?
Either Jesus is God, part of the Trinity, or he is not.
Muslims and Jews reject this. Thus we do not worship the same God.
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 4:03 pm | Permalink
So how do you reconcile claiming you believe the Bible is the word of God and then espouse a belief which is contradictory to the very things the Bible says?
—
Is the bible supposed to be complete? I mean, is it the only thing known about God?
I think JM only has a reconciliation coming his way if that’s true. If the Bible is not complete — if God has ever offerred a “word” to human beings outside the Bible — then JM would seem to be off the hook.
Also, if people like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, etc., actually speak with God, then don’t you have to concede that there’s a possiblity God has let slip a word or two that’s outside the Bible?
Pedent,
Not exactly. The Bible, right now, contradicts what JM Walker is saying.
Why would God tell us one thing in the Bible and then pass on later something completely contradictory what was already stated?
Either you believe the Bible is the word of God, as JM Walker says, or you don’t.
You don’t get to say that something was said later which completely contradicts the Bible while still saying you believe the Bible and the contradicotry information.
It is not a matter of if I believe that God can’t speak to us anymore, I believe he does.
I just don’t see how you can claim he does, while what you are saying is contradictory to the very things already said and which you claim to believe.
Nathan, you beliefs are based on your bible (there are actually many), and that’s fine. You are being insulting by saying my beliefs are based on “feeling good” about what I believe; you no not what my basic beliefs are, other than what I have written, but you deign to reject them.
I in no way insinuated your beliefs are wrong; you very plainly said mine are. Ergo, there is nothing more that can be said by way of discussion, because you bring nothing but a closed mind to the party. As I said, you are putting limits on God, and that’s your business. As I also said, I tend to back away when I hear that. End of discussion.
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 4:16 pm | Permalink
Why would God tell us one thing in the Bible and then pass on later something completely contradictory what was already stated?
—
Beats me. He could, though, right?
JM Walker,
You told me my beliefs were wrong too.
When you post contradicitory information to what I am saying is true, then in essense, you are saying that I am wrong.
You didn’t have to insinuate my beliefs were wrong. You just got done saying that what I believe is akin to putting limits on God and that what I believe is based on an understanding of the Bible you don’t accept.
You insult me by saying that your beliefs are based on the Bible when they are clearly not.
Do you believe what you just told me to be true or not?
Because if you do, then you to come to the discussion with just as much of a closed mind as you accuse me of having.
Also, there are not many different types of Bibles either. The Bible I use is the same Bible that 99% of all Christians use. The only arguable difference is that the Catholics include the Apocrypha. That is not a different Bible, just an addition included.
So what exactly do you mean when you say I use a different Bible amoung many?
Pedant,
Not according to the Bible, no. He wouldn’t contradict Himself like that. God has made promises to us in the Bible that either you believe or you don’t.
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink
Pedant,
Not according to the Bible, no. He wouldn’t contradict Himself like that.
—
The Bible actually says that God can’t contradict himself?
The prophet “Nathaniel” on God –
“He wouldn’t contradict Himself…”
You obviously haven’t read the book, boy.
Pedent,
Not that he can’t, but gives no indication that he would or has.
Not when it comes to something like salvation and what he has promised us.
Why should we think otherwise?
Nathan suggests,
“Not according to the Bible, no. He wouldn’t contradict Himself like that. God has made promises to us in the Bible that either you believe or you don’t.”
So that means shellfish, pork, and clothing of multiple fabrics is off the table?
Can God microwave a burrito so hot he couldn’t eat it?
What if they held an impeachment and nobody came? This is too jocular. Only in Illinois (or maybe Florida):
CHICAGO (AFP) – The Illinois governor accused of trying to sell President Barack Obama’s Senate seat to the highest bidder said he will not attend impeachment hearings set to begin Monday in the state senate.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Blagojevich_will_skip_his_own_impeachment_0123.html
Coming out of lurking to say:
“Simply thinking you are good enough and have a right to heaven is the height of human arrogance.
“Sorry.”
[FE]Of course, there is no arrogance in that statement.[/FE]
Isn’t there something in there early on about “the end of all flesh is upon me for it repenteth me that I have made it.”?
Sounds like second guessing at the least leaning toward contradicting creation.
I still love Jesus.
BlueJay,
Second guessing? No. Mankind simply had become far too violent and God wiped them out.
Nate, don’t vary from your benchmark. Live and learn, but keep your cornerstones where they are.
“Mankind simply had become far too violent and God wiped them out.”
Hard luck for all the animals huh?
and all the babies and the unborn
Did someone forget to tell barack he won? I just saw a campaign commmercial where he was talking about clean coal with people chanting “yes we can” in the background.
Maybe someone should tell him the campaign is over?
Mayor’s State of the City Address
Date: January 23, 2009
Contact: Communications Team
Wichita Mayor Carl Brewer will present his 2009 State of the City Address at 6 p.m. on Tuesday, Jan. 27, in the Wichita City Council Chambers at City Hall, 455 N. Main
If City Council Chamber seating is at capacity, limited overflow seats will be available on the first floor on a first-come, first-served basis. Attendees in overflow areas will view the address on a monitor. Attendees, including media, should arrive early to gain timely access through security screening.
A reception on the first floor of City Hall will follow the address, which will be broadcast live and replayed on City Government Cable Channel 7.
In his second State of the City Address, Mayor Brewer will identify community challenges, outline Wichita City Council goals and share his vision for the city. His address will include Core Priorities such as 1) Government Accountability, 2) Economic Development, 3) A Healthy and Compassionate Community and 4) Strong Neighborhoods.
“A State of the City Address is an opportunity for us to collectively reflect on our past and look with optimism to our future,” Mayor Brewer said.
“Second guessing? No. Mankind simply had become far too violent and God wiped them out.”
You shall know them by their fruits. I guess God wasn’t too intelligent on his intelligent design. I suppose we should blame cars for polluting, not the people who designed the cars.
tick tock.
If you didn’t do well in your Fantasy Football picks, it might be because you didn’t watch this YouTube video last fall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHH-6ZQktRQ
For giggles and laughs, enter your birthday and click ’submit.’
http://www.paulsadowski.org/BirthDay.asp
I’m am coming late to this thread but I wanted to congratulate Nathaniel on his post of;
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 11:53 am | Permalink
Very good post, thanks Nathaniel, Thanks.
You mean you didn’t know Maggie? You can blame cars if they, like people, come standard with free will drive.
Nathaniel
Posted January 24, 2009 at 1:42 pm | Permalink
Wow, two great posts in a row, just excellent Nathaniel….keep it up guy!
BlueJay Posted January 24, 2009 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
“I’d much rather be a good person than what I have seen represented as a good christian. If your God is as you represent him, I should have no hesitation at turning my back in his very presence.”
And likewise will God to you.
Did someone forget to tell barack he won? I just saw a campaign commmercial where he was talking about clean coal with people chanting “yes we can” in the background.
Maybe someone should tell him the campaign is over?
Yeah, I saw those too. They were produced by the coal industry, and Obama had nothing to do with them.
How’s your health these days, Rap? It’s not a shot–a lot of us are dealing with health issues, including me.
“So basically, your belief is based on what makes you feel good about God. Again, that is fine if that is what you want to believe, but lets recognize it for what it is.”—Nathaniel, in response to JMWalker
Nathaniel, isn’t it interesting how some, maybe most of us to one degree or another, try and make God in our own image. But it doesn’t change the everlasting reality of God in the least….and some will be terribly distressed with that for eternity.
Well, that was interesting.
Nathan says 1. the Bible condemns any who don’t know of Christ to eternal damnation but 2. a just God would never do this.
At the same time he argues that you can’t go outside of what the Bible says in John 14:6 “no one comes to the Father except through me . . . ,” he argues that there must be some way that people who don’t know of Christ can learn of him (perhaps after death) so that they can make a choice.
Sorry, Nathan. The Bible, as you so rightly point out, doesn’t say anything about people getting to make a choice about Christ if they don’t know of him. And since you premise your entire argument on not assuming anything the Bible doesn’t say, then to be consistent, you have to condemn billions of Muslims, Jews, Bahais, Sikhs, Jains, Hindus and Taoists to an everlasting lake of fire.
You try to cop out by saying, “I believe that a just God at some point gave those people a choice or will in the end, but there is not any clear scripture on that.”
Well, Nathan . . . if there’s no clear scripture on that then you can’t just give it your own “feel good” spin, now can you? You just condemned JM for doing the same thing.
As you said yourself, why did Jesus say it if he didn’t mean it? Why did the Apostles go around preaching the Gospel if those other faiths are “good enough?”
Obviously, you’re saying they are not good enough, and so our Christian God MUST condemn everyone of every other faith to hell fire and damnation for all eternity.
You try to have it both ways: you condemn me for interpreting John 14:6 extra-literally, and at the same time you make a huge extra-literal leap with your assertion based on nothing.
Everyone will know of Christ, whether by name or not, but everyone will know Him by His Spirit. Their choice to accept Him as Savior or not will determine their eternal fate.
I realize this offends the religious sensibilities of billions, but how about acknowledging that we’re all part of one human family, and leave it at at that?
I understand there are also billions of religious people who endorse that concept. Just pointing out that the concept can stand by iteelf, without religion, and isn’t always appreciated by some of the more fervent “believers.”
I now return you to your insulary theological argument. Peace!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/24/miami.shooting/index.html
They say the gunman used an AK-47 and witnesses think it was an AK-47. But what I’m wondering is if was an AK-47 that the gunman used. I can only guess that it may have been the assault rifle, the AK-47. An AK-47 is a weapon of war and does not belong on the streets of Miami or any other street in America. I really tried to use AK-47 as many times as I could, but I failed. I think I could have said AK-47 at least a few more times.
And so it begins.
AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47AK-47.
Got it?
There are a lot of ways to interprete John 14:6 other than the rather hateful and arrogant way that Nathan has.
1. No one comes to the Father except through me, meaning that Christ is the Savior of the whole world. Just as Adam condemned the whole world, Jesus redeemed the whole world by dying for us.
That doesn’t mean that everyone goes to heaven. But it means that 21″Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father.”
These lines are open to the possibility that one could obey the commandments and follow Christ in that way.
2. Other people interprete the “I am the way” as Jesus is the doorkeeper. He opened the door and led the way. He judges who shall pass through that door.
This view has quite a bit of support if one looks at the entire chapter–Jesus says he’s going ahead to prepare the way.
Also, Oko–
The books of the New Testament were written well after Jesus died–like 100-300 years after.
Pleef,
If you wanted to exercise anything resembing critical thinking, you wouldn’t be focusing on CNN mentioning “AK47″ a couple times. Like that’s particularly meaningful, or even a surprise?
The TV media is shallow and tabloid. Phickin’ DUH. I even cited Eric Lichtblau, a journalist who disturbs me, as a better example of journalism than them–because he, along with James Risen, broke the Bush spying program story, a year late!
Come back with some substance and details. Some of us will listen. Your off-the-cuff rants aren’t doing anyone any good, least of all you. They’re just tiresome.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted January 24, 2009 at 9:03 pm | Permalink
Also, Oko–
The books of the New Testament were written well after Jesus died–like 100-300 years after.
————-
You are overshooting quite a bit there Capn. The books of the NT were written by Jesus’ contemporaries.
When were the
Books of the New Testament Written?
30 A.D. : Jesus is Crucified, Dies and is Resurrected
35 A.D. : Gospel of Matthew
40 A.D.
40 to 41 A.D. : Book of James
42 A.D. : Gospel of Mark
42 A.D. : Gospel of John (main body of Gospel)
(the prologue/epilogue to Gospel not completed until after 95 A.D.)
50 A.D.
50 A.D. : Book of 1Thessalonians
51 A.D. : Book of 2Thessalonians -
53 A.D. (Spring) : Book of Galatians
56 A.D. (Late Winter) : Book of 1Corinthians
57 A.D. (Late Summer) : Book of 2Corinthians –
57 A.D. (Winter) : Book of Romans
59 A.D. : Gospel of Luke
60 A.D.
61 to 63 A.D. : Book of Ephesians
Book of Philippians
Book of Colossians
Book of Philemon
Book of Hebrews
63 A.D. : Book of Acts
Book of 1Timothy
Book of Titus
63 to 64 A.D. : Books of 1John, 2John and 3John
64 to 65 A.D. : Book of 1Peter
65 to 66 A.D. : Book of 2Peter
66 to 67 A.D . : Book of Jude
67 A.D. : Book of 2Timothy
90 A.D.
to
100 A.D.
95 A.D. : Book of Revelation
oops there outlander,
the crapn fall down and go boom…
(chortles)
Just something I found interesting in reading here tonight and then looking around on my own.
Lesson – Matt 7:13-14; Matt. 6:24
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leads unto life, and few are they that find it.
“Life is like a road. You took a road to get here. There were other streets that you could have taken, but you wouldn’t have ended up here. You had to follow a certain path to get here. If you’d taken a different road, you would have ended up somewhere else.
Jesus said that the choices we make in life are like picking which road to take. He describes two roads. One is wide, and flat, and easy with a wide gate at the end. The other is narrow, and rugged, and difficult, with a narrow opening at its end. Most people take the easy road, and few take the narrow one. But Jesus said that the wide and easy road leads to destruction, and the straight and narrow road leads to eternal life.
When we have to make choices in life, we have to base our decisions on more than what is easiest. Often what seems easiest or most appealing is the worst choice we can make. Satan wants us to sin, so he makes sin look good. But we have to know where our decisions will lead us. We have to look at the consequences of our decisions.”
Interesting how many theologians post here. When it comes to religion, everyone attempts to make God into something they can understand, including myself. Religions do much the same thing. The Bible does it one way, the Koran another. There are many more out there written with the same purpose: Make God believable to it’s followers.
So, whose religious beliefs are going to allow them to enter the kingdom of heaven? Who out there can say for sure God even recognizes any, or all, for that matter, religions? Who out there can condemn some remote tribe to hell because they never heard of Christ? I know I can’t, regardless of what the bible says; I just don’t think God is that uncaring.
My basic belief is a person lives a just, honest life, and God will recognize that over some pious religious person who runs around telling everyone they’re going to hell if they don’t believe in Christ. NO MAN CAN KNOW THE MIND OF GOD!
Box, doesn’t that say something to how the most massive religions probably don’t have a chance?
The earliest texts of the Gospels are no older than the 4th Century, so any dating before that is purely speculative.
The Gospel of Mark was not written by a disciple of Jesus, even though it is the oldest.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb1.htm, As this site points out, “Within a few years of its completion, the authors of both Matthew and Luke are generally believed to have used this gospel as a source of quotations for their own gospels,” in other words, they weren’t written by men who had direct contact with Jesus either . . . although they apparently drew on sources that may have had direct contact with him.
There is no evidence–zero–that the men (or women) who wrote the books that make up the New Testament directly knew Jesus.
They may have drawn on texts of someone who knew him–the Q (or source) documents.
The books of the New Testament show a knowledge of the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 AD, so they were apparently written at least after that.
Again, there’s the problem of no surviving documents before the 300 AD . . .
This thread has turned into evidence why I am a lapsed agnostic; I’m not sure what it is I don’t believe in.
I resonate to Paul’s poetry in the Love Chapter (1st Corintians 13.) But sometimes the guy’s agenda — specific to the congregations to whom he wrote his epistles — don’t always sync with what Jesus allegedly taught.
So much of the Koran echoes previous texts.
The Buddha and Confucius got a lot of things right about the human/spiritual condition long before anyone got around to writing the Bible.
Resurrection myths litter centuries of now-forgotten (or mostly so) theologies.
The Greeks seemed to enjoy god-ness and their observations, beliefs, and mythologies are ingrained in Western Civilization’s cultural DNA.
If I lived in the Third Century B.C. on a dank, foggy island in the North Atlantic and the only thing that kept me alive was chopping down a tree for shelter and warmth, I might be inclined to be a Druid and appreciate oak trees.
If my grandfather’s grandfather’s grandfather associated the sun’s cycles with planting a good corn crop, I might have spent Sunday mornings at the local Aztec church.
If my livelihood depended on following buffalo all across the plains and that meant I saw a few tornadoes along the way, the whole concept of Father Sky and Mother Earth might have phallic implications.
I dated a woman in Los Angeles who regularly attended Hindu meetings. She dragged me along sometimes and I swear I didn’t hear anything I couldn’t imagine was taught in just about any Lutheran church picked at random.
If there’s only one ultimate god, then any of them and all of them are “God.” The only difference is how PEOPLE try to figure “God” out.
“Aha! I have the ANSWER!”
“No. I have the answer.”
So we go to war.
We can be amused by the story of Leda and The Swan, and all those multi-armed goddesses of India, but is that all that more absurd than Christianity’s Trinity?
“There is no God but God” pretty much sums up Islam and who can argue with that?
(Okay, we all know who argues with that. That’s the thing with religion.)
The concept of “God-taking-human-form” is most certainly not exclusive to Christianity.
Jesus didn’t invent triumph over death (albeit, he did have a lousy weekend in the process).
Perhaps his life’s mission was this message: “Don’t get hung up over Easter.”
I dunno.
As I said, I don’t know what I don’t believe in.
Wasn’t the New Testament written hundreds of years after Christ?
Though some say that the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Christ died, the truth is that it was written before the close of the first century by those who either knew Christ personally, had encountered him, or were under the direction of those who were His disciples.
In the article When were the gospels written and by whom?, I demonstrated that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D. Basically, the book of Acts was written by Luke. But Luke fails to mention the destruction of Jerusalem in 79. A.D., nor does he mention the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65). Since Acts is a historical document dealing with the church, we would naturally expect such important events to be recorded if Acts was written after the fact. Since Acts 1:1-2 mentions that it is the second writing of Luke, the gospel of Luke was written even earlier. Also, Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple in the gospels: “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down,” (Luke 21:5, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). Undoubtedly, if Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written after the destruction of the Temple, they would have included the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy in them. Since they don’t, it is very strong indication that they were written before 70 A.D.
More at:
http://www.carm.org/questions/written_after.htm
“Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good.”
– Samuel Johnson
It’s too bad all these theologians cant hear themselves.
“NO MAN CAN KNOW THE MIND OF GOD!”
No kidding, Walker.
But dont tell that to seventy percent of Kansans who voted to make this kind of nonsense the law.
Look at this thread and then tell me that gazing at tea leaves or chicken entrails wouldnt be an equally legitimate way to make law.
Heheheheh. And they wonder why their religious rantings get no respect except in havens of ignorance like Kansas.
“Box, doesn’t that say something to how the most massive religions probably don’t have a chance?”—P_mama
P_mama, I don’t think the various religions are the road to heaven in and of themselves. They are simply a consensus among a group on a belief and a format for worship.
It is the brotherhood/sisterhood communion of one’s soul with Christ that determines our final destiny.
I was born in July of 1973, this is my year. I can feel it…
This describes me perfectly…heh heh
The Ox is not extravagant, and the thought of living off credit cards or being in debt makes them nervous. The possibility of taking a serious risk could cause the Ox sleepless nights.
Ox people are truthful and sincere, and the idea of wheeling and dealing in a competitive world is distasteful to them. They are rarely driven by the prospect of financial gain. These people are always welcome because of their honesty and patience. They are reputed to be the most beautiful of face in the zodiac. They have many friends, who appreciate the fact that the Ox people are wary of new trends, although every now and then they can be encouraged to try something new. People born in the year of the Ox make wonderful parents and teachers of children.
It is important to remember that the Ox people are sociable and relaxed when they feel secure, but occasionally a dark cloud looms over such people and they engage all the trials of the whole world and seek solutions for them.
May as well add the rest of it…
The Ox is the sign of prosperity through fortitude and hard work. This powerful sign is a born leader, being quite dependable and possessing an innate ability to achieve great things. As one might guess, such people are dependable, calm, and modest. Like their animal namesake, the Ox is unswervingly patient, tireless in their work, and capable of enduring any amount of hardship without complaint.
Ox people need peace and quiet to work through their ideas, and when they have set their mind on something it is hard for them to be convinced otherwise. An Ox person has a very logical mind and is extremely systematic in whatever they do, though they have a tremendous imagination and an unparalleled appreciation for beauty. These people speak little but are extremely intelligent. When necessary, they are articulate and eloquent.
People born under the influence of the Ox are kind, caring souls, logical, positive, filled with common sense and with their feet firmly planted on the ground. Security is their main preoccupation in life, and they are prepared to toil long and hard in order to provide a warm, comfortable and stable nest for themselves and their families. Strong-minded, stubborn, individualistic, the majority are highly intelligent individuals who don’t take kindly to being told what to do.
The Ox works hard, patiently, and methodically, with original intelligence and reflective thought. These people enjoy helping others. Behind this tenacious, laboring, and self-sacrificing exterior lies an active mind.
Happy New Year!