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400 Comments
Stop cell phone usage while driving.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrder-EthicsCommitments/
Lobby Reform, Check
More Openness, Check
Don’t forget about Friday!
Jed,
I am curious as to who you think has a similar ’style’ to me.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/on-sedgwick-county-bench-its-men-28-women-zero/#comment-505837
More socialism on the way with the One. Nice long read about the government, what they will say in our lives. Read it and weap.
http://thehill.com/dick-morris/the-obama-presidency–here-comes-socialism-2009-01-20.html
“george” –
“More socialism on the way with the One. Nice long read about the government, what they will say in our lives. Read it and weap.”
Yeah, I’ll be “weaping” with joy when I take over half of your house and half the food in your fridge under the power of creeping (creaping?) “socialism.”
Brought over from the above thread.
The following quotation should be required reading by all elected officials at federal, state and municipal levels. Especially OBAMA!
“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”~~~ The late Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931 – 2005
It might also be added that a country cannot be taxed into prosperity!
“Don’t forget about Friday!”
What a boring life if that’s all you’ve got to look forward too….whoa that’s kind’a pathetic.
Oh for crying out loud…
Google adrian rogers. He’s a preacher with no background in economics.
You think obama will listen to THIS guy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH!
“According to one author, the pastor once responded to a question about biblical references in support of slavery during biblical times by saying, “I feel slavery is a much maligned institution. If we had slavery today we would not have such a welfare problem.”
“On the topic of pastoral endorsement of political candidates, he wrote that it is a pastor’s duty to influence the political decisions of the members of the pastor’s congregation. A pastor need not, however, endorse a specific candidate (and, under Internal Revenue Service regulations, a church cannot do so without losing its tax-exempt status). He wrote that “[i]f [a pastor] has done his job his members will prayerfully and correctly use the standard of God’s Word to select the right candidate.”
Dr. Rogers…”supported a boycott of Disney because of the company’s supposed promotion of homosexuality.”
Any economics cred there? Any?
“HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH!
“According to one author, the pastor once responded to a question about biblical references in support of slavery during biblical times by saying, “I feel slavery is a much maligned institution. If we had slavery today we would not have such a welfare problem.”
The idol of bigots everywhere.
Posting crap on multiple threads does not make it more true. It makes it, well, crap on multiple threads.
“The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.”
————–
Very good point Boxlock. As citizens, we should all contribute to the common good. But that quote highlights the fact that money from the government is money out of someone else’s pocket.
But we are losing perspective in the mind boggling economic bailout numbers as the government seemingly produces these hundreds of billions out of thin air.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them
Great quote Boxlock.
Reminds me of the Obama campaign rhetoric. Promised a rose garden to the lower half.
It’s no surprise that wingnuts hold in high esteem someone who would say this:
“I feel slavery is a much maligned institution. If we had slavery today we would not have such a welfare problem.”
Yeah. He’s a real wise man.
More like wiseguy.
Far from the phony, invented, “wealth redistribution” hysteria, the plan is the spark new industries and new jobs to perform vital work …. – db
“That work begins with this plan – a plan I am confident will save or create at least three million jobs over the next few years. It is not just another public works program. It’s a plan that recognizes both the paradox and the promise of this moment – the fact that there are millions of Americans trying to find work, even as, all around the country, there is so much work to be done. That’s why we’ll invest in priorities like energy and education; health care and a new infrastructure that are necessary to keep us strong and competitive in the 21st century. That’s why the overwhelming majority of the jobs created will be in the private sector, while our plan will save the public sector jobs of teachers, cops, firefighters and others who provide vital services.
To finally spark the creation of a clean energy economy, we will double the production of alternative energy in the next three years. We will modernize more than 75% of federal buildings and improve the energy efficiency of two million American homes, saving consumers and taxpayers billions on our energy bills. In the process, we will put Americans to work in new jobs that pay well and can’t be outsourced – jobs building solar panels and wind turbines; constructing fuel-efficient cars and buildings; and developing the new energy technologies that will lead to even more jobs, more savings, and a cleaner, safer planet in the bargain.”
FROM: http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/economy/
“According to one author, the pastor once responded to a question about biblical references in support of slavery during biblical times by saying, “I feel slavery is a much maligned institution. If we had slavery today we would not have such a welfare problem.”
————–
Oh. Well if “one author” said it, it must be true.
“one author”. Isn’t he related to “anonymous source”
#
outlander
Posted January 22, 2009 at 8:29 am | Permalink
“one author”. Isn’t he related to “anonymous source”
———-
Oh, and cousins with “some say”.
Do you suppose Abraham Lincoln ever said anything stupid? Or even wrong?
So let’s throw out everything ever said by Honest Abe.
(remember the three greats: Lincoln/Kennedy/Obama)
“Don’t forget about Friday!”
Can’t wait!
Praise be.
“Stop cell phone usage while driving.”
I hold my cell phone up high enough while driving so you can see me talking on it. Just to get your goat.
Everyone should understand clearly what Dr. Adrian Rogers is talking about before attacking him.
He is taking about income redistribute, NOT reasonable taxation for all, and for the common good.
The quote offered above – I’d have to agree with it.. more or less. The thing is, it has nothing at all to do with the Obama Administration plans…
Oh adrian rogers is a piece of work. He’s got a bunch of greatest hits.
I like this one too. From a letter he sent to bush.
“Mr. President, it would be morally reprehensible for the United States to be ‘evenhanded’ between democratic Israel . . . and the terrorist infested Palestinian infrastructure.”
I notice bigotbawks provided no source for his quote. None at all.
Google adrian rogers. You’ll be both amused and horrified. And you’ll better understand the lunacy of the people who follow him.
“I feel slavery is a much maligned institution. If we had slavery today we would not have such a welfare problem.”
Great idea! Here’s what we do… All males are now slaves. Why? Because they’re always telling us how they work harder, and we sure don’t want lazy slaves.
Heheheh. Reading his own word guarantee we will indeed understand adrian rogers.
I wonder if the wingnuts here would bow down to an economist talking about religion like they do a preacher talking about economics?
Apparantly, roger’s quotes only apply to him and his. Not to anyone who’s different.
“Humility is knowing what I am, acknowledging that God made me that way, and giving Him the glory for it.”
Unless you are gay….
Quotes by Adrian Rogers
“You don’t make Him Lord. He’s Lord already. You just recognize it.”
“Is what I’m living for worth Christ dying for?”
“Sometimes we don’t feel like praying. But if there is ever a time that we need to pray, it’s when we don’t feel like it. We need to pray until we do feel like it.”
“We can do more than pray after we’ve prayed, but we can do no more than pray until we’ve prayed.”
“If I had a thousand lives to live, I’d give everyone to Jesus.”
“He who angers you, controls you!”
“The task ahead of us is never as great as the Power behind us.”
“Pray and doubt; you’ll do without. Pray and believe; you will receive.”
“Don’t ask God to cram His plan into your puny little mind, because then God would be limited by your understanding.”
“Has it ever occured to you that nothing ever occurs to God?”
“Try to define the Trinity, and you’ll lose your mind. Deny it you’ll lose your soul.”
“Humility is knowing what I am, acknowledging that God made me that way, and giving Him the glory for it.”
“If it’s big enough to concern you, it’s big enough to concern God.”
“Meekness is strength under control.”
“I am the visible part of the invisible Christ. He is the invisible of the visible me.”
“God the Father is all there is
The Holy Spirit is all we will feel
And Jesus is all we will ever see.”
“Spiritual hope is not wishful thinking. It’s rock-solid assurance!”
“If Christ is worth ANYTHING, He is worth EVERYTHING.”
“To understand the part of the Bible you don’t understand is to obey the part of you do understand, and before long you’ll begin to understand what you didn’t understand. Understand?”
“God only wants for us what we would want for ourselves if we were smart enough to want it.”
“There is no promise God cannot keep, no prayer God will not answer, and no problem too hard for Him to solve.”
“God’s plan is to take ordinary people with ordinary talents, do extraordinary things through them, and give the glory to Himself.”
“If you have a Bible that’s falling apart, you’ll have a life that’s not.”
“Tragically, many of our prayers are so vague that if God were to answer them, we wouldn’t even know it.”
“Justice is God giving us what we deserve. Mercy is God not giving us what we deserve. Grace is God giving us what we don’t deserve.”
“The difference between the Anti-Christ and Christ is that one gives you a number and the other gives you name. When Jesus comes, will your name be called, or will your number be up?”
Outlander
STOP. KFG’s head’s going to explode.
No private business wants invest in the casino with the Bush depression going on. Stop the Waterwalk, stop the new airport. We need the money for other things. This year is going to get worse before better.
more slaves & less welfare: sounds like a win/win to me – but, maybe not for everyone.
>i>He is taking about income redistribute, NOT reasonable taxation for all, and for the common good.
Boxlock you are going way over their heads here.
Please remember: This is the crowd who believes that the Earned Income Credit increases and IRS payments to those who pay zero federal income taxes anyway = a tax break.
who do you bow down to chicken girl Anton LeVey?
Phantom Posted December 8, 2008 at 1:58 pm | Permalink
What’s happened since Nov. 4 is Obama has realizied he has to fill the presidential vacuum, and has trotted out Team Obama. Most of the increase since Nov. 4 has come since the last couple weeks when Obama stepped up to the plate.
Obama’s second day on the plate.
DJIA 8,060.92 -167.18 -2.03%
Nasdaq 1,462.17 -44.90 -2.98%
S&P 500 821.25 -18.99 -2.26%
FOX 50 618.54 -12.80 -2.03%
bigotbawks posted, multiple threads
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
——————————-
That is false.
‘The Technology Challenge: How Can America Spark Private Innovation?‘
http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/lazowska/faculty.lecture/innovation/gore.html
Todays market headlines:
Jobless Claims UP
Housing starts plunge to new low
Microsoft announces lay off of 5,000
Obama, worst president ever.
OMG, I’m HOWLING now. No wonder bigotbawks wont give his source for his master’s quote.
It’s freeperville!
I wonder when fleetie will chime in with a comment about using that site to tell people what to think?
hehehhe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2162250/posts
I see even after I’ve been gone, no one can push their wingnut buttons like I can.
Dance puppets dance!
I have work to do.
Cosmos link is to his Green God Al Gore.
Save some of you the time letting you know.
Also his link does not support his statement.
He isn’t following the money to it’s source.
Pelosi said one of her favorite moments from Inauguration Day was when Marine One lifted off the Capitol grounds, signifying former President George W. Bush’s exit from Washington. “It felt like a 10-pound anvil was lifted off my head,” she said.
————-
What she meant by “10 pound anvil”.
Checks and balances. Threat of veto. Accountability.
Anton LeVey? heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
I feel the same way about the church of satan that I do about your church.
To quote John Prine “pretty good, not bad, I cant complain, but actually, all them gods are just about the same”.
I’ve already said that I prefer Flip Wilson’s “church of the what’s happenin’ now”.
“I notice bigotbawks provided no source for his quote. None at all.”—the perverted farmer
Don’t call me on such simple things nitwit….you will always lose. Here’s just two but there are dozens.
http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=528
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1818444.aspx
Heheheh. AHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Dont forget this one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2162250/posts
Mr. Ed, meet Mr. Obama:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/19/cass_sunstein_animal_rights/
“WASHINGTON – The number of new unemployment claims jumped more than expected last week,…”
That’s weird. Usually they are spot on.
Government can hand out money but it can’t put a sense of hope in your heart or a purpose in your life.
American_Way posted January 22, 2009 at 9:18 am
Save some of you the trouble.
Cosmos link is to his God, Al Gore.
It does not support his statement.
Cosmos doesn’t realize government had to get the money from SOMEwhere to invest in innovation.
————–
Thank you for attacking Al Gore — I knew that you people would do that.
And thank you for falsely stating what I “realize”.
Now please cite the part from bigotbawks post that says “anything” can only = “money”.
—————-
bigotbawks posted, multiple threads
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Sources: Obama to order Guantanamo closed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_guantanamo
Wonder where the detainees will go…
Did Al Gore get elected or appointed or something?
“Sources: Obama to order Guantanamo closed
Wonder where the detainees will go…”
Sol, lets hope into the DimRat voter’s strongholds, ha!
Yes, while we ban cell phone usage while driving, lets pass a law banning all these too:
-Applying make up
-Eating
-Drinking
-not having both hands on the wheel
-playing with your radio
-playing with your GPS
-leaning into back seat to grab something
-leaning into the front seat to grab something
-not having your eyes on the road at all times
-reading a map while driving
Go ahead and add to the list. We must pass a law singling out each and every one of these individual actions.
OR
We could just enforce the existing inattentive driving laws.
“SolDevVB” asks –
“Wonder where the detainees will go…”
I’ve invited a lot of them over to “george’s” house where, thanks to SOCIALISM!! I’ve taken over half his house and half the food in his fridge.
They’ll sleep on the sofa. And President Obama will soon sign executive orders decreeing free foot massages and cookies for Guantanamo detainees, just like you CONs warned us.
What she meant by “10 pound anvil”.
Not to be churlish, but if it only weighs 10 pounds, it’s not an anvil.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 8:03 am | Permalink
Dr. Rogers…”supported a boycott of Disney because of the company’s supposed promotion of homosexuality.”
__________________________________
If they don’t promote it then why do they have gay day? The reason why there was a boycott is because when they first started it, they didn’t tell the general public about it exposing children to their lewd behavior.
Why all the lewd remarks and gestures in their children movies?
Just one of many.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InFLnzeQjWw&feature=related
Yes, while we ban cell phone usage while driving, lets pass a law banning all these too:
-polishing/cleaning/loading your gun
-polishing your… well, you figure it out. ;)
MonkeyHawk,
Setting being absurd aside, where are the detainees going to go?
Predestined,
Those are already illegal.
You are not allowed to brandish a firearm in public. You are also required to transport firearms a particular way as well.
Heheheh. How are those christian boycotts of “supporters of homosexuality” working?
Nathaniel posted January 22, 2009 at 10:36 am
Yeah, Obama is being held accountable . . .
————————
Nathaniel,
Speaking of “being held accountable”, did you find a source for your claim that climate scientists insist that solar variations can only cause global cooling?
Or do you continue to shirk your personal responsibility for your unsupportable claim?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InFLnzeQjWw&feature=related
ROFL
KFG,
How are those violent church vandalism sprees going for you gay people?
The interuptions of church services? Tresspassing?
Thanks, Nathaniel, for the education on firearms.
However, weren’t you the one saying you enter establishments with your firearm, even when posted signs clearly state that no firearms are allowed?
Predestined,
I have said no such thing. I follow the law of concealed carry to the letter. Every little technicality of it.
I have no idea what you are talking about nathan.
Nor do I understand how that is a reponse to the question of how the christian boycotts are going.
I wish I had a picture of the cat with a pancake on its head. Nonsense.
KFG,
I have no idea about the boycotts you are talking about.
Perhaps you could share that picture with me when you find it.
Christian boyctt?
MY boycott of christiansis very satisfying!
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 10:53 am | Permalink
I have no idea what you are talking about nathan.
Nor do I understand how that is a reponse to the question of how the christian boycotts are going.
I wish I had a picture of the cat with a pancake on its head. Nonsense.
=========================
Hmmm, that could make a good song. :D
I was speaking of this boycott.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/usa.mcdonalds
Ya know, the one values boy wrote about?
I also see micky d’s posted record profits this year. One of only two publicly traded companies to do so.
I cant post pictures here. But I think it can be found at icanhazcheezburger where the LOL cats can be found.
Here ya go.
This is what you cons sound like when you post your ridiculous crap.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1180532906036770570VpoTCj
Heheheh.
And for you twice born cats….
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/01/13/funny-pictures-finding-jesus/
Really. Go to icanhascheezburger.com home page. I laughed so hard I almost couldnt breathe.
KFG,
You idiot. . .basement cat already knew where to find Jesus. . . ;)
Muslims use religion to justify war. Christians use Jesus. Just ask Bush.
Guantanamo Bay to be closed within a year. Check
White House Lobbying reform. Check
More transparency of White House communications. Check
“There were cases going on as he was inaugurated,” said Jen Daskal, senior counterterrorism counsel for Human Rights Watch. “And he is now the Commander in Chief and the President. He wanted to act quickly to put a halt to proceedings that are patently unfair and perceived around the world as unfair. This could be showcased to the world as a renewed respect to the rule of law.”
that are patently unfair and perceived around the world as unfair
So what are you going to do with the inmates:
Five defendants accused of involvement in the 9/11 attacks on the US today asked a judge for a session to announce confessions.
The men, who include the alleged mastermind of the attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, were appearing at a pre-trial hearing at Guantánamo Bay.
The military judge, Colonel Stephen Henley, read aloud a letter in which the five defendants said they “request an immediate hearing session to announce our confessions”.
Mohammed and the others face death sentences if convicted of involvement in the suicide plane attacks of September 11 2001 that killed almost 3,000 people.
The co-defendants are Ramzi Binalshibh, Mustafa Ahmad al-Hawsawi, Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali – also known as Amar al-Balochi – and Ali’s uncle Walid Bin Attash. Al-Hawsawi is Saudi while the rest of the defendants are Yemeni.
The men are charged with committing terrorism and conspiring with al-Qaida to murder civilians in the attacks. They also face 2,973 counts of murder, one for each person killed.
Nine relatives of 9/11 victims were flown to Guantánamo for the hearing. Maureen Santora, whose firefighter son Christopher was killed at the World Trade Centre, said she wanted to lock eyes with those accused of killing her son.
Relatives of about 30 more victims, mainly firefighters, gave Santora memorial cards that she planned to bring into court “to know their spirit is with us”.
Heheheh PM.
Basement cat vs Ceiling Cat.
In the end there can be only one….
Let him go free?
“I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan. For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Internet holding his head,” the transcript read.
-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Mohammed portrayed himself as Al Qaeda’s most ambitious operational planner in a confession to a U.S. military tribunal that said he planned and supported a series of terrorist attacks, ranging from the gruesome attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 — which killed nearly 3,000 — to a 2002 shooting on an island off Kuwait that killed a U.S. Marine
He also said he planned the 2002 bombing of a Kenya beach resort frequented by Israelis, the failed missile attack on an Israeli passenger jet after it took off from Mombasa, Kenya, and the bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia that killed more than 200.”
He was tortured. Let him go?
Bring him into our country?
Put him in an American prison without trial?
Hee hee heeeeee. HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
The picture of teh final battle between Basement Cat and Ceiling Cat.
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/7844/cat/500
Let the 911 terrorist go free?
January 22, 2009
Article from: Agence France-Presse
TRIALS in Guantanamo Bay have been suspended as the new US President began fulfilling a vow to close the controversial prison.
But alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of the accused now on trial, said he was not happy with the suspension and asked for the court to continue.
On the other hand, Sheikh Mohammed and three other co-conspirators – Ali Abd al-Aziz, Walid bin Attash and Mustapha Ahmed al-Hawsawi – objected to the suspension of their trial at a hearing.
Military judges responded on Wednesday by suspending trials of a Canadian and five alleged September 11 co-conspirators, including alleged mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
“I would like to continue,” Sheikh Mohammed told military judge Stephen Henley.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/gerald_warner/blog/2009/01/20/barack_obama_inauguration_this_emperor_has_no_clothes_it_will_all_end_in_tears
London knows what is happening.
So, did I miss it or does anyone know where they are putting the prisoners from Club Gitmo yet?
Is this where we are supposed to hope while Obama talks about change?
CSPAN 2 covering the lilly ledbedder fair pay act.
Obama has a problem with Gitmo.
He closed the hated symbol of the oppressive and unjustice, torturing USA.
But he has not provided justice for those who are suspected as being responsible for September 11th – and are presently detained. And no justice for the victims, the families of those murdered on 911.
Gitmo, in the end was just a symbol. The hard issue still confronts us. Do they bring the warriors, terrorists, enemy combatants into CONUS and prosecute them in US courts? If he does, will they all get off free?
And of those already released previously under the former administration, does it matter that a large number of them returned back to battle – sworn to kill Americans?
Clap and applaud for Obama closing Gitmo, but the problem did not magically disappear.
Man, you people are dense. The terrorists are CIA, MI6, ISI and Mossad. The folks there in Cuba being tortured into a “guilty” plea are farmers and goat herders.
Will you people not wake up?
Or will you all just stay stupid up until the country is full of Change?
Change being code for dead.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 10:44 am | Permalink
Heheheh. How are those christian boycotts of “supporters of homosexuality” working?
_____________________________
For gays probably not but for the Southern Baptists I sure it did.
Are you still denying “Disney company’s SUPPOSED promotion of homosexuality”?
AmWay, if I tortured you for 6 years and threatened that I would kill your family, I’d tell you any gawdammed thing you wanted to hear.
You people are killing this country.
Go hate brown people somewhere else.
You’d tell me…
Hahahaha, stumbled across this, it’s great for a laugh:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama
He hypnotized us into voting for him!
This could entertain me for hours. Check out the article on kangaroos!
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 11:07 am | Permalink
I was speaking of this boycott.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/usa.mcdonalds
Ya know, the one values boy wrote about?
I also see micky d’s posted record profits this year. One of only two publicly traded companies to do so.
____________________________
If you’re calling “values boy”, then you’re lying. I never mentioned “micky d’s”. Just like you lied about Disney’s supposed promotion.
pleefer I was actually reading from your link.
“It is frightening to think there is a real possibility that the entire world economy could go into complete meltdown and famine kill millions. Yet Western – and British – commentators are cocooned in a warm comfort zone of infatuation with America’s answer to Neil Kinnock. We should be long past applauding politicians of any hue: they got us into this mess. The best deserve a probationary opportunity to prove themselves, the worst should be in jail.
It is questionable whether the present political system can survive the coming crisis. Whatever the solution, teenage swooning sentimentality over a celebrity cult has no part in it. The most powerful nation on earth is confronting its worst economic crisis under the leadership of its most extremely liberal politician, who has virtually no experience of federal politics. That is not an opportunity but a catastrophe.
These are frank, even ungracious, words: they have the one merit that, unlike almost everything else written today about Obama, they will not require to be eaten in the future.
Barack Obama inauguration: this Emperor has no clothes, it will all end in tears..”
AmWay, if I tortured you for 6 years
What do you want to know? You want my sister? You can have her. My first born? Yep. Yours.
Seriously though. The families of some of those at Gitmo have been celebrating them as martyrs for their actions on 911. They even want to die as martyrs so they don’t let their families down.
I’ve always been all for families.
Tara,
Prehaps now you can answer my question:
How is it that you mock me for believing in creation and not Evolution when you don’t even believe in scientific Evolution.
You believe in a quasi form of Evolution directed by God. That is contrary to what science teaches.
So why is it that you can reject science while acting indignant towards me for believing in Creation?
You attempt to sit in the middle of the road and in doing so reject what the Bible says, reject what Evolutionary theory says and still try to claim you are a Christian who believes in Evolution. What sense does that make?
And then you mock me?
LOL
American_Way posted January 22, 2009 at 12:16 pm
pleefer I was actually reading from your link.
——————-
That’s a mistake, and a waste of your time.
Nathaniel,
Perhaps you can answer my question?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-122-4/#comment-507479
But I doubt very much that Nathaniel will.
The chicken girl also lies about what Box said concerning Franken getting more votes than registered voters,and tries to pawn it off as sentence diagramming. Perhaps she lied about that too.
Here’s a quick lesson for you chicken girl about diagramming.
http://www.geocities.com/gene_moutoux/diagrams.htm
I would rather be waterboarded than read any of the sewage coming out of American_ way’s fingers. Bush gave us this depression and if we can come out it will be due to Obama’s work and this is from a person who voted for Bush. This is all Bush’s fault and I am sad that he made this mess.
DD, you are insane. Are you drinking again? WTF am I lying about?
I asked how the boycotts were doing. I never said anything about Disney.
And values boy did write a column about christians boycotting McDonalds. And they did post record profits last year.
I think you ARE the cat with the pancake on it’s head.
Hee hee hee heeeeeeeee…..
FYI, the “christian” boycott of Disney is over. It’s been over for three years.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8318263/
nitwit
Crawl back in your bottle.
Would you like me to diagram that for you?
HEHAHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHHAHAHAHAHAH….
How’s your boycott of Walmart going? I’ll even use the con’s favorite source.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1744339/posts
IIRC, Walmart and Micky D’s are the ONLY two publicly traded companies to post record profits last year.
I see they really missed your business….
Nathan –
“You believe in a quasi form of Evolution directed by God. That is contrary to what science teaches.”
I suggest you check out what Darwin himself believed about God, the Creator.
eheheheheh.
I see how much Disney missed your business….
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/business/media/31disney.html?fta=y
What a nutcase DD is.
Here’s a link to values boy and his whiiiiine about Mickey D’s.
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/castillo/story/465759.html
You are crazy.
Would you like me to diagram that for you?
Chas,
Why exactly would I care what Darwin thought about God?
Does “science” teach us that God was involved in or behind or directing Evolution?
BTW chicken girl, I’m not an alcoholic, I went to Alanon because my ex was an alcoholic.
You should try lairs anonymous.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
eheheheheh.
I see how much Disney missed your business….
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/business/media/31disney.html?fta=
_______________
I’m sure you like going to Disney to watch all the little girls pervert.
chicken girl,
Diagramming is not the same as lying.
“How is it that you mock me for believing in creation and not Evolution when you don’t even believe in scientific Evolution.
You believe in a quasi form of Evolution directed by God. That is contrary to what science teaches.”
I know we’ve already established that you don’t know what science is, but let’s try this one more time. I’m in a particularly good mood today.
As a scientist, I accept that the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. Everything that science teaches about evolution, I “believe” to use the term loosely (minus a few squabbles over within-genus taxonomy)
Science does not teach me anything about God. Evolutionary theory does not say anything about God.
“You believe in a quasi form of Evolution directed by God. That is contrary to what science teaches.”
See, this is wrong because science does not teach anything about God. Science doesn’t give a fart if you believe God set evolution into motion or aliens or FSM or anything. Science only teaches us about the material world.
What I know about God doesn’t come from science. It comes from the testimony of those who live their life in Christ, from people I know today to the countless martyrs before me. It comes from the Scripures, which speak to my heart (and which, I might add, say NOTHING about science).
“Nathaniel” reverts to 3-year-old questioning mode with –
Does “science” teach us that God was involved in or behind or directing Evolution?
In a way, yes.
Because, boy, the whole concept of “god” is lot bigger than that book you worship.
Do you really believe “god” stopped communicating to us once the ink had dried on the last chapter of “Revelation?”
Nope.
God, if eternal, if alive, if really involved in our individual lives, keeps talking. But only to those of us who are listening instead of picking up ancient texts and reinterpreting those verses to rationalize and justify contemporary issues.
If you really believe God created everything, God must have created science and scientists and the scientific method.
A devout Jew, Albert Einstein wrote about the awesome feeling it was when he developed a small portion of how energy and matter and light work together by saying, “I got a glimpse into how God thinks.”
Y’know, I’d like to believe in a God who’d appreciate someone who applies scientific methods to try to figure out how He thinks.
You, on the other hand, apparently think God stopped thinking a couple thousand years ago, left his diary, and it’s all up to you to figure it out.
And as you, boy, try to tell us what God really had in mind, I’m left with a choice:
Do I believe in God?
Or do I believe in “Nathaniel?”
Still looking for that missing link.
Haven’t found it.
Also, with your assertion that I am “rejecting” what the Bible says, I ask you two questions:
1. Would God speak to us terms that we cannot understand or even begin to comprehend?
2. Did our ability to reason come from God?
See, I say no and yes respectively. That’s why you and I will never agree on this.
“donndublin” claims –
“I’m not an alcoholic, I went to Alanon because my ex was an alcoholic.”
Oh!
A co-dependent!
Nathaniel also refuses to answer my question.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/01/open-thread-122-4/#comment-507479
DD, before you go crazy, uh, again…
Please point out where I lied.
Awww, an Oprah moment…
Ali Wentworth (husband of ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos) on “Oprah”:
We watched everything and George was still doing all the anchoring for ABC and as soon Beyonce said “At Last…” George called me at home and he went, “Honey?” and I said “I know!” and we both started crying.
“Regular” shares his ill-fated quest for truth –
“Still looking for that missing link.
Haven’t found it.”
Try a mirror.
I suspect there’s something about you, “Regular,” that’s not quite human.
;^)
Although, I’ve become much more tolerant of creationists.
My fiance has taught me how riduculous the notion of common descent and evolution sounds to someone who doesn’t study it. He went to a school that taught YEC and flood geology.
I’ve been in the field for so long that I take it for granted that it’s “obvious, duh!”
RE: The Obama Inauguration
“I’m sure you like going to Disney to watch all the little girls pervert.”
Ya know, it makes the baby jesus cry when you say things like that.
I’m guessing that would be a “no” on dd taking the civility pledge.
Co-dependent? Hell, “he” is probably the reason the ex was drinking!
Tara,
“Science” directs us to believe in Evolution directed by random chance and mutation. Not direction.
So, when you say you believe in God, just where exactly does he fit into the equation?
I know that you say they are seperate, yet your very belief demands they be combined when you claim God was indeed behind Evolution.
When Evolutionary Theory is taught in schools they teach it all the way to the first “assumed” life, the formation of the planent, solar system, and galaxy. No where do they mention God. Even the Big Bang doesn’t mention God.
So, where does God come into the equation for you when you say God directed it all?
Simply declaring that “science” doesn’t talk about God and the Bible isn’t science doesn’t reconcile this obvious contradiction.
Care to try again?
#
Wahine_Tara
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:23 pm | Permalink
Although, I’ve become much more tolerant of creationists.
My fiance has taught me how riduculous the notion of common descent and evolution sounds to someone who doesn’t study it. He went to a school that taught YEC and flood geology.
I’ve been in the field for so long that I take it for granted that it’s “obvious, duh!”
==============================
So where is the missing link?
“Canadian doctors decry airline ‘tush test’”
Interesting infomation, not about the ‘tush test’ but what the Canadian Medical Association says about their universal health and wait times.
“Sharfstein explained that while Canada’s universal health insurance system provides free health care services to all residents, the reality is that patients often wait months to see their doctor. More than 5 million Canadians don’t even have a family doctor, she said.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28777115/
I’m just going to assume that the folks who whiiiiiiine about me raising chickens dont eat chickens or eggs.
Because, ya know, they might catch “teh gay” from them….
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
I’m just going to assume that the folks who whiiiiiiine about me raising chickens dont eat chickens or eggs.
Because, ya know, they might catch “teh gay” from them….
———————
That can happen?
How nice of you Tara. I’ve also become much more tolerant. With me, it’s of scientists who speculate about the process by which human life arrived on this earth, and present it as the truth, instead of their best guess.
Heh Reg. Evidently, since they love to whiiiiine about my chickens.
““Science” directs us to believe in Evolution directed by random chance and mutation. Not direction.
So, when you say you believe in God, just where exactly does he fit into the equation?”
I did read a paper about self-directed mutation. It was interesting.
As for your question, I don’t know exactly where He fits in. Ken Miller had an idea about God intervening at the quantam level. It sounds fine. I have ideas about what “in His image” means. Perhaps He just sat back and waited for the right moment to reveal Himself. I would never presume to say I know for certain.
I think a profound difference between Eastern and Western Christianity is that we are perfectly fine admitting that we don’t know everything about His plan. Mysteries, with a capital M.
I stick with what I do know and can get knowledge from firsthand, and that’s science. The Bible gives tells me everything I need to know about God and his plan for salvation, but it certainly doesn’t tell me EVERYTHING!
If I am blessed enough to get to heaven, I will be asking a LOT of questions. Starting with “the duck-billed platypus…why?”
Regular,
What missing link? Between what? I’m assuming that you’re talking about a link between apes and humans of some sort.
Maybe you should ask an anthropologist for the specifics in anthropology?
I can teach you about evolutionary theory in general, and the specifics about plant and some marine animal evolution. But I’ve never even taken an anthropology class.
Tara,
As a Christian, you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus for your sins, I take it?
When do you think man sinned against God if there was no Adam and Eve?
Do you think that Genesis is basically a fictional story meant to represent at some time man sinned against God?
Why would the author of Genesis go to such great lengths to try to include a geneology of man from Adam and such specifics as to the decendants of Noah after the flood if they were just fictional stories?
Do you think at some point they were taught as fictional stories and that somewhere along the line we started taking them as truth or that they were purposefully meant to be decieving and the author wanted people to think they were true even though they were just works of fiction?
I am curious as to how Christians who reject what the Bible says reconcile these things.
ya know, they might catch “teh gay”
—————–
I catch one from time to time. Usually just chop them up for bait…
Oops, you said GAY not GAR!
Sorry.
So this debate’s rubber hits the road in Texas…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/education/22texas.html
The governor apparently insists the world is just a few thousands of years old… sigh…..
“That was the biggest percentage drop since January 2007, when housing starts fell 16.2 percent, and was sharply below analysts’ expectations for an annual rate of 610,000 units.”
That’s weird. Usually they are spot on.
#
Wahine_Tara
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:35 pm | Permalink
Regular,
What missing link? Between what? I’m assuming that you’re talking about a link between apes and humans of some sort.
Maybe you should ask an anthropologist for the specifics in anthropology?
I can teach you about evolutionary theory in general, and the specifics about plant and some marine animal evolution. But I’ve never even taken an anthropology class.
————————–
I talk with an anthropologist about once a week. He’s filled me in on the different species and etc.
Plus, the classes I’ve taken myself at universities.
The anthropologist often answers, “No one really knows and the theories keep getting revised.”
Nathan, there are great truths in the Bible… even when not read/interpreted literally… Parables, for example… The poetry of Song of Solomon, for another… The book of Esther, where the name of G*d is not even mentioned once….
See, you want to interpret literally, things that were not written literally… but figuratively, and as parables — for example, explaining to primitive peoples where we came from… and why life is tough, and doesnt seem fair… These are all in the Genesis story…
But they do not require a literal reading… Read the Rabbinic scholars for a more detailed description….
Also, read Joseph Campbell’s, “The Power of Myth” —-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Myth
SHEET HITS THE FAN AT CAPITOL DURING ROE V WADE DAY
Apparently Mike O’Neil had a catholic priest go on a tirade at the capitol today during the anniversary of Roe. Reports of shouting matches on the floor of the senate over the utterly inappropriate comments made by the priest.
More to come as I hear.
Reg — I have also read in numerous places, where the entire concept of “the missing link” is a straw man invention of the Anti-Evolution people, to throw up a road block…. I have also heard anthropologists suggest the same… Oh yea, my undergraduate degree is Sociology/Anthropology….
Chas
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:51 pm | Permalink
…See, you want to interpret literally, things that were not written literally… but figuratively,…”
Chas I fully agree with your post, but good luck getting anyone else to.
I understand brian… And that is wherein the problem lies… at least mostly….
Chas,
I do not deny that there are stories, parables, and other literary devices used in the Bible by people.
It doesn’t answer any of my questions though as to how a Christian reconciles the nature of Genesis and such specific examples of the geneology of man from Adam to Noah to Abraham and on.
Were these all simply made up, to make the story more realistic?
Why would the author seek to decieve his readers like that? What does it gain?
“Nathaniel
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:58 pm | Permalink
Were these all simply made up, to make the story more realistic?
Why would the author seek to decieve his readers like that? What does it gain?”
The answers to those questions are not for you (or me) to know.
…thus ‘faith’.
Brian,
What is the point of the Bible at all then?
If we are not supposed to know anything then what was the point of writing anything at all?
Read Campbell Nathan… He is very clear and concise… easy to understand… his wisdom far outweighs mine…
Besides, your question is based on a false premise that allegory, and parable, and allusion, are FALSE… or DECEPTIVE…
I guess I wonder why you believe that?? The story of “truth” takes on many forms… and uses many such devices…
Are you suggesting that parables and such are “made up” and therefore invalid?? That seems to be your premise…
Nathan,
“If we are not supposed to know anything then what was the point of writing anything at all?”
That is not what brian is saying at all….
Tara,
“As a Christian, you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus for your sins, I take it?”
yep.
“When do you think man sinned against God if there was no Adam and Eve?
Do you think that Genesis is basically a fictional story meant to represent at some time man sinned against God?”
Here’s what I beleive is a “given” in the story of Genesis: God created Adam and Eve, they had an opportunity to live in a paradise, but they disobeyed God and now we all have to suffer from the same sin: the tendency to put our will before His.
As for the specifics, let’s start with the first: God created Adam and Eve. Are you suprised that I believe that there was a real Adam and Eve? I think “God created them” can encompass a lot of things. I’ve already told my imagining a moment in evolution when God said “Ok, it’s time” and gave us a soul and an opportunity to know him. Of course, that is one of those things I can’t know exactly how it happened, just that it happened.
My second given: I think after God created Adam and Eve, they did get to live in paradise where they were free from all of the consequences of evil and sin. But then they disobeyed, my third given. Was there literally a snake and a fruit? Dunno. Maybe. The specifics aren’t important to me, just the truths they convey.
More in the next post, running out of room!
“Nathaniel
Posted January 22, 2009 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
Brian,
What is the point of the Bible at all then?
If we are not supposed to know anything then what was the point of writing anything at all?”
That would be a good question for your pastor.
“Why would the author of Genesis go to such great lengths to try to include a geneology of man from Adam and such specifics as to the decendants of Noah after the flood if they were just fictional stories?”
I think the geneology is important to later emphasize Jesus as fully man. He wasn’t just conjured into existence by God, he came from a real line of flesh, from real people, from the original man.
“Do you think at some point they were taught as fictional stories and that somewhere along the line we started taking them as truth or that they were purposefully meant to be decieving and the author wanted people to think they were true even though they were just works of fiction?”
I think the Holy Spirit told these writerse exactly how to write down the message. People’s knowledge was very different back then, and God would tell us these things in ways we can understand. To the author’s, it was literal truth. To us, in light of everything we’ve learned about the world since then, it’s not quite so literal. There’s no deceit involved.
My favorite example I heard is the idea that the mark of the beast is a actually computer chip with a UPC code implanted into someone’s neck as a tracking device in the future. It’s a JOKE, but it’s a good example of what I’m talking about: How would God convey this information to people before computers and UPC codes?
“I am curious as to how Christians who reject what the Bible says reconcile these things.”
No problem, minus the snark. It’s good to articulate my thoughts on this.
blogs.kansas.com/gov/2009/01/22/pastor-takes-on-abortion-in-the-house-invocation/
News media out to destroy consumer confidence with more articles like this. Now we are talking depression.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28698830/
Yeah, those preachers. You never know what will come out of their mouths.
Dennis
“Yes, grandchildren, we used to have these things we called trees.”
Environment Blamed in Western Tree Deaths
Rising temperatures and the resulting drought are causing trees in the Western United States to die off at more than twice the pace they did a few decades ago, a new study has found.
The combination of a warmer climate and diminished water supply have impaired the ability of the forests to absorb greenhouse gases and made them sparser and more susceptible to fires and pests, the authors of the study said. The scientists, who analyzed tree census data collected in 1955 and in later years, found that the mortality of trees increased in 87 percent of the 76 forest plots studied. In some plots, the die-off rate had doubled after as little as 17 years; in others, the mortality rate doubled after 29 years, the study found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/us/23trees.html?_r=1&hp
DavidB posted January 22, 2009 at 2:47 pm
“Yes, grandchildren, we used to have these things we called trees.”
——————-
“Because we don’t think about future generations, they will never forget us.” Henrik Tikkanen
“george
Posted January 22, 2009 at 2:40 pm | Permalink
News media out to destroy consumer confidence with more articles like this. Now we are talking depression.”
Yep, that’s it. The media.
The Media has a grand conspiracy to erode consumer confidence. Perhaps they should only report flowers and rainbows so no one gets scared?
Chas
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:55 pm | Permalink
Reg — I have also read in numerous places, where the entire concept of “the missing link” is a straw man invention of the Anti-Evolution people, to throw up a road block…. I have also heard anthropologists suggest the same… Oh yea, my undergraduate degree is Sociology/Anthropology…
—————————
Perhaps Chas…
The latest rage is there is no such thing as race. Ask your fellow anthropologist to get geeky with you about genomes and adenine, guanine adventures
Environment Blamed in Western Tree Deaths
The combination of a warmer climate and diminished water supply have impaired the ability of the forests to absorb greenhouse gases and made them sparser and more susceptible to fires and pests, the authors of the study said. The scientists, who analyzed tree census data collected in 1955 and in later years, found that the mortality of trees increased in 87 percent of the 76 forest plots studied. In some plots, the die-off rate had doubled after as little as 17 years; in others, the mortality rate doubled after 29 years, the study found.
———
Well duh.
I believe they call that a drought.
Econmic Recovery Needs:
http://act.ucc.org/site/MessageViewer?dlv_id=9841&em_id=6401.0
In an article entitled “GISS Divergence with satellite temperatures since the start of 2003? at the site, watts up with that, Steve Goddard and Anthony Watts have found that since 2003, satellite temperature data had begun to diverge with the temperatures reported by GISS, which uses many data points in addition to the satellites. Previously the information matched rather well. So why the difference? Goddard and Watts are now commencing an analysis to find out.
What is the significance? If the satellite trends continue they show a huge temperature drop:
“Since the beginning of 2003, RSS has been dropping at 3.60C/century, UAH has been dropping at 2.84C/century, and GISS has been dropping at 0.96C/century. ”
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/01/global-warming-satellite-data-finds-earth-may-be-entering-cooling-phase/
KFG,
Lie #1
Dr. Rogers…”supported a boycott of Disney because of the company’s supposed promotion of homosexuality.” -KFC
Disney doesn’t supposedly promote it, they do. What do you call Disney’s Gay day?
Lie #2
Ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 7, 2009 at 10:50 am | Permalink
Hey bigotbawk, ye prideful liar…
Care to prove your lie upthread that there were precincts with more votes for Franken than registered voters?
THE TRUTH
Boxlock20
Posted January 7, 2009 at 7:52 am | Permalink
What a joke, and not a very funny one.
More votes coming from precincts than registered voters. And from those that ‘found’ votes for the the little rat Democrat Al Franken.
The media continually report that man-made global warming is proven fact despite the reality that no scientist has ever been able to demonstrate that human activities have any effect on the Earth’s climate. News coverage of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change conference made no mention of the report submitted by 650 prominent scientists – including several former IPCC scientists – that debunks the myth that human activities cause global warming.
Even the record cold global temperatures of 2007 and 2008 cannot dissuade the disciples of the Church of Global Warming. The cooling trend, according to the U.N. World Meteorological Association’s director, is caused by La Nina, and is only temporary; ” …part of what we call ‘variability’.”
The IPCC and the media also are mute when it comes to more than 4,000 scientists who signed the Heidelberg Appeal against the rampant pseudoscience surrounding the issue. Likewise for the Oregon Petition, the Leipzig Declaration, and The Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming – cumulatively bearing the signatures of more than 35,000 climatologists and meteorologists, including 72 Nobel Prize winners who deny the existence of man-made global warming.
Neither will their reporting ever quote Reid Bryson, the “Father of Climatology” and the founding chairman of the meteorology department at the University of Wisconsin who has stated with regard to global warming, ” …there is no credible evidence that it is due to mankind and carbon dioxide. We’ve been coming out of a Little Ice Age for 300 years…It’s been warming up for a long time.”
http://co2sceptics.com/news.php?id=2570
KFG,
Lie #3
When I questioned you about it you said you were diagramming his comment. You’re either lying or don’t know what diagramming is.
• ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 8, 2009 at 12:06 pm | Permalink
Seems like an educated person could diagram these two sentences and understand their meaning.
Lie # 4
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 7:59 am | Permalink
Dr. Rogers…”supported a boycott of Disney because of the company’s supposed promotion of homosexuality.”
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 12:45 pm | Permalink
I asked how the boycotts were doing. I never said anything about Disney.
Today, the Space and Science Research Center, (SSRC) in Orlando, Florida announces that it has confirmed the recent web announcement of NASA solar physicists that there are substantial changes occurring in the sun’s surface. The SSRC has further researched these changes and has concluded they will bring about the next climate change to one of a long lasting cold era.
Today, Director of the SSRC, John Casey has reaffirmed earlier research he led that independently discovered the sun’s changes are the result of a family of cycles that bring about climate shifts from cold climate to warm and back again.
“We today confirm the recent announcement by NASA that there are historic and important changes taking place on the sun’s surface. This will have only one outcome – a new climate change is coming that will bring an extended period of deep cold to the planet. This is not however a unique event for the planet although it is critically important news to this and the next generations. It is but the normal sequence of alternating climate changes that has been going on for thousands of years. Further according to our research, this series of solar cycles are so predictable that they can be used to roughly forecast the next series of climate changes many decades in advance. I have verified the accuracy of these cycles’ behavior over the last 1,100 years relative to temperatures on Earth, to well over 90%.”
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/nasa-solar-cycle-may-cause-dangerous-global-cooling-in-a-few-years-time/
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 11:07 am | Permalink
I was speaking of this boycott.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/usa.mcdonalds
Ya know, the one values boy wrote about?
_________________________
My reply was:
#
donndublin
Posted January 22, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink
If you’re calling me “values boy”, then you’re lying. I never mentioned “micky d’s”. Just like you lied about Disney’s supposed promotion.
__________________
I’ll give you that one because I thought you were referring to me since I was the one who first questioned you about the boycott. If you wouldn’t call everybody names, you wouldn’t be so misunderstood. At least I can admit it when I’m wrong.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted January 22, 2009 at 1:21 pm | Permalink
“donndublin” claims –
“I’m not an alcoholic, I went to Alanon because my ex was an alcoholic.”
Oh!
A co-dependent!
________________________
That’s EX co-dependent.
So sad that so many are ignoring the importance of the Roe V Wade anniversary.
#
Political_mama
Posted January 22, 2009 at 4:19 pm | Permalink
So sad that so many are ignoring the importance of the Roe V Wade anniversary.
===============================
Norma McCorvey (”Jane Roe”) and Sandra Cano (”Mary Doe”) aren’t celebrating.
Speaking of Coleman, I heard today he took a job lobbying for a Jewish (or is it Zionist) organization.
I’ve been studying the Hebrew Bible with the Jews over at the Hebrew Congregation.
In the midrash tradition, Adam is a spiritual being who contained all the souls of all men. Eve is the female counterpart.
Let that sink in, my friends . . .
Awesome.
LOL
Oh, look! It’s the Space and Science Research Center!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3154682&mesg_id=3155862
More votes coming from precincts than registered voters. And from those that ‘found’ votes for the the little rat Democrat Al Franken.
Oh my gorsh!
Call the Minnesota Election Committee! They apparently don’t have the secret knowledge that the CONs do.
SolDevVB,
Thank you for yet again proving that you do NOT understand the temperature data, scientific methodology, and solar versus GHG forcings.
Another cool thing about the Jewish tradition is that Satan (Hebrew: Sat-Han) isn’t this big powerful rival of God.
That would be polytheistic, and there can only be one God.
Sat-Han is just a “trouble-maker” or “causer of strife.”
God created Adam and Eve, they had an opportunity to live in a paradise, but they disobeyed God and now we all have to suffer from the same sin: the tendency to put our will before His.
Yup, that’s the standard Sunday School version.
But isn’t that kind of silly in the final analysis?
Do you put a bowl of M&Ms in front of a kid and say you can eat as many of the M&Ms as you want as long as you don’t eat the red ones?
24 hours from now we’ll be at The Anchor!!
The Planned Parenthood abortion mill in Indianapolis, IN, recently exposed in a video sting violating state laws requiring reporting of suspected statutory rapes, also received a reprimand in August, 2008 over improperly filed abortion reports to the state health department. The abortion reports cited, nearly 300 of those filed in 2007, were missing such information as the type of procedure used in the abortion, the gestational age of the baby, the name of the person completing the report, the age of the mother at the time of the abortion and other information required by law, indicating certain probability that Planned Parenthood abortion mills are covering up rapes and illegal post-viable abortions. Filing incomplete and false reports is a misdemeanor. Such illegal tactics are part of a well-recognized nationwide criminal pattern in Planned Parenthood abortion mills, including the Overland Park second-trimester abortion mill now being “prosecuted” by new Johnson Count DA Howe, while quaking in fear that his career will be destroyed over any actual conviction of Planned Parenthood abortionist quacks, for falsifying state abortion reports and illegal post-viable abortions.
- – -
17-year-old Lawrence Center High School girl is in custody of Lawrence, IN police and faces felony charges of neglect of a dependent and child abandonment, for admittedly leaving her newborn daughter in a shoebox on a doorstep Wednesday morning. Two women found the infant near death from exposure to the 14-degree cold, wind chill about zero, for perhaps 75 minutes, and summoned emergency assistance. The baby was treated and in good and stable condition Wednesday night at Riley’s Children’s Hospital.
Under Indiana’s Safe Haven Law, parents can legally abandon their unharmed infants within 45 days of birth with no questions asked at a firehouse, police station or a hospital, which should eliminate any mercy in sentencing for the mother. Leaving a newborn outdoors in such severe cold weather should be considered attempted murder, requiring adult prosecution and harsh sentencing for the mother.
You really hate women don’t you Parkay. Another example of why abortion should be an appropriate and necessary option. But no, Parkay can’t get enough abandoned babies and jailed women.
Roe and Doe are opportunists and I’m very glad they’re not on my side.
Oh and neither of them win mother of the year awards either.
Here’s one for Troy-Parkay:
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=537200
Terrorist Rams Car into Clinic
ST. PAUL — A man purposely rammed a vehicle into front door of Planned Parenthood in Highland Park.
The incident happened at 7:30 a.m. on Thursday in St. Paul.
A 32-year-old man told St. Paul Police he intentionally drove his SUV into the front door of the Planned Parenthood located at 1965 Ford Parkway in St. Paul.
A spokesperson for Planned Parenthood says one employee was at the front desk ten feet from the door. Most of the staff was in the building preparing to open for the day. No one was injured.
The man was immediately arrested on the scene for aggravated assault.
parkay
Posted January 22, 2009 at 5:03 pm | Permalink
I must say, she is consistant, time-wise.
Don’t let them beat you down, parkay!
Personally, I am a 3 month Pro-Choicer, after that I am a No-Choicer. Compromise you can believe in.
” well-recognized nationwide criminal pattern ”
so the record of convictions of this wide-sread criminal conspiracy.. is… non-existent?
The man was immediately arrested on the scene for aggravated assault.
He should’ve been arrested for terrorism.
fleetwood, I wasn’t aware you were physcially able to have an abortion.
It’ll be good to meet you tomorrow night. What color dress will you be wearing?
CapNA —- Many fundamentalistic Christians believe in, and practice a “christianized” form of “Dualism” — Light/Darkness; Good/Evil…
It can be portrayed in a picture, with a person, God above pulling on the arms… Satan below pulling on the legs….
And the PERSON…. the all-important PERSON is required to make the all-important decision between who wins…. God, or Satan….
Funny, isnt it…. That’s not quite what Paul wrote in Ephesians:
2:4 ….out of the great love with which he loved us
2:5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ–by grace you have been saved–
2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
2:7 so that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God–
2:9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
Paul wasnt much of a Dualist…. See, it’s not what WE do to get God’s attention… It’s what GOD does to get our attention….
And Paul is quite emphatic… By GRACE are we saved through faith, and even Faith is a gift of God… so that nobody can boast(claim to be “better”) than others!!
And Paul is quite emphatic… By GRACE are we saved through faith, and even Faith is a gift of God… so that nobody can boast(claim to be “better”) than others!!
Except Muhammad Ali, I heard him proclaim it on TV after the Liston fight.
And Muhammed Ali is also Muslim, idiot!!
“A co-dependent!”
________________________
“That’s EX co-dependent.”
I thought the deal was that a person was either in recovery for a perpetuity, or relapsed. I thought the pattern held even if you are divorced from your alcoholic spouse.
You can be an ex-convict if you are not in prison any longer, but you can’t be an ex-alcoholic regardless of your drinking status. I assume the same would be true if you were co-dependent.
The above is according to the 12 step programs.
#
Chas
Posted January 22, 2009 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
And Muhammed Ali is also Muslim, idiot!!
————————
It was humor Chas, chill…
#
Chas
Posted January 22, 2009 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
And Muhammed Ali is also Muslim, idiot!!
* * * * *
If my memory serves me correctly Chas, he was still Cassius Clay – the Liston match was before his conversion.
“It’ll be good to meet you tomorrow night. What color dress will you be wearing?”
Pink, with high-heel shoes and a low neck sweater.
“Yup, that’s the standard Sunday School version.
But isn’t that kind of silly in the final analysis?
Do you put a bowl of M&Ms in front of a kid and say you can eat as many of the M&Ms as you want as long as you don’t eat the red ones?”
Hmm, I don’t know. I think of it more like, there are two hundred bowls of M&M’s you can eat from, but don’t eat from this bowl because I said so.
And the kid ignores the 199 other bowls and goes straight for the forbidden one, not because it’s particularly special or tasty looking, but because he’s just being disobedient.
Maybe I had a a darn good reason for keeping that bowl aside…maybe it was for someone else or it had rat bait or something. And I don’t consider it necessary to explain every action of mine to my kid.
That’s sort of how I see it :shrug:
Now that I think about it, I believe you are right, Steven…. Thanks for that….
It wasn’t the eating of the fruit that was the original sin, it was the deliberate act of disobedience.
#
Wahine_Tara
Posted January 22, 2009 at 5:58 pm | Permalink
It wasn’t the eating of the fruit that was the original sin, it was the deliberate act of disobedience.
============================
I got into a bowl of ‘green apples’ my grandmother had set aside.
I paid dearly for my disobedience by eating several of them. :)
Although I’ve always wondered, if there was an inherently sinful fruit, what would it be?
I’d say a toss up between a papaya and a lychee.
Papayas are too sexy. Lychees are red and spiky, like the devil :D
Tara — Remember George Carlin???
George Carlin:
And [God Says] if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place… …full of fire and smoke… …and burning and torture and anguish.. …where he will send you… …to live and suffer… …and burn and choke… …and scream and cry… …forever and ever… …’til the end of time!…. :)
BUT HE LOVES YOU!
There it is, clear as crystal. On the one hand you will hear Christians state that God loves you with an EVERLASTING LOVE. That God’s love is different because, unlike everyone else, His love is UNCONDITIONAL. But if you do not subscribe to certain particular beliefs (which vary from Christian group to Christian group) God will subject you to suffering beyond imagination for eternity.
So which is it? Unconditional love? Or love with the biggest condition the universe has ever seen?
[Note: Carlin's beef is with this somewhat diametrically opposed current Evangelical Concept of God's Grace and Salvation... ]
Army: Negligence caused GI’s death
)
By KIMBERLY HEFLING
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON – An Army investigation called the electrocution death of a U.S. soldier in Iraq a “negligent homicide” caused by military contractor KBR Inc. and two of its supervisors, according to a document obtained by The Associated Press.
An Army criminal investigator said the manner of death for Staff Sgt. Ryan Maseth, 24, of Pittsburgh, has been changed from accidental to negligent homicide because the contractor failed to ensure that “qualified electricians and plumbers” worked on the barracks where Maseth died, according to the document.
Heather L. Browne, a spokeswoman for Houston-based KBR, said in a statement that the company cannot comment on the report because the company has not seen it.
“KBR’s investigation has produced no evidence that KBR was responsible for Sgt. Maseth’s death,” Browne said. “We have cooperated fully with all government agencies investigating this matter and will do so in the future.”
The Green Beret died of cardiac arrest on Jan. 2, 2008. He was electrocuted while taking a shower in his barracks in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 5th Special Forces Group at Fort Campbell, Ky.
The document obtained by the AP, dated Dec. 16, said the case was under legal review at Army’s Criminal Investigation Command headquarters at Fort Belvoir, Va. A spokesman for the Army’s criminal division, Christopher Grey, said the investigation continues and any conclusions drawn now would be premature.
Last year, Maseth’s parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit in Allegheny County, Pa., against KBR. It alleges that KBR allowed U.S. troops to continue using electrical systems “which KBR knew to be dangerous and knew had caused prior instances of electrocution.”
Maseth’s mother, Cheryl Harris, testified on Capitol Hill about electrical problems in military facilities. Since then, the Army has made changes such as creating an electrical code for U.S. facilities in Iraq. At one point last year, the deaths of at least 18 U.S. service members and contractors were under investigation as possible electrocutions.
Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., said in a statement that the Army CID’s investigation validates the work by Maseth’s mother.
“We must not only ensure that full accountability is served in this case, but that the Pentagon is also doing all that it can to prevent future electrocutions of American personnel in both Iraq and Afghanistan,” Casey said.
KBR was previously owned by Halliburton Co., the oil services conglomerate that former Vice President Dick Cheney once led. Congressional Democrats long have complained that KBR has benefited from its ties to Cheney.
http://www.kansas.com/wireupdates/story/673371.html
Uh, yeah if you get electrocuted just by taking a shower- without ya know, doing something dumb like trying to change a lightbulb at the same time…then whoever made that shower should be held accountable.
“His love is UNCONDITIONAL.”
No it’s not. It’s a false premise you are trying to make. Pleased to be asking the chapter and verse where you get that.
I want to know just how exactly someone gets electrocuted by a shower…did the wirer hook the electrical line directly to the plumbing? how do you make that kind of error? Drill through the wiring and put in the plumbing?
Fleetwood, you’re a non-believing Troll… What’s it matter to you??
Link to the above Carlin quote, and commentary:
http://mrhackman.blogspot.com/2008/07/george-carlin-on-god-and-hell.html
Fleetwood…. That nice little word, “grace,” — in Koine Greek, means “unmerited favor” —-
That is in Ephesians 2:8-9, for your reference…
“That is in Ephesians 2:8-9, for your reference…
Thank you for your insults, preacher man.
There is nothing about “unconditional” in that.
Try again, preacher man.
Political_mama
Posted January 22, 2009 at 6:17 pm | Permalink
Without actually seeing the showers, I am guessing that one of those brain-dead electricians might have used a water line for ground source….
However, I wouldnt say that for certain…
What do you think UNMERITED FAVOR means, Fleet?? And where did I call you a name??
Since you arent a believer, what’s it to you?? Your insistence on commenting on something you know nothing about makes you a TROLL… Just the facts, dude…
“And where did I call you a name??
…makes you a TROLL…”
You called me a name in the same post you said you didn’t, but that doesn’t matter.
You know the “conditions”.
There is nothing “unconditional” about it.
My belief or non makes no difference.
I didn’t write the Bible, I just know what is says.
“I didn’t write the Bible, I just know what is says”
That’s pretty bold to speak for God like that.
My church teaches God’s unconditional love. Sin separates us from God, so that after death if we are separate from him, our isolation from his presence and love feels like burning, tortue, etc.
We do pray for the dead…maybe they can still come around, maybe not.
We definitely don’t put on God’s judging hat, that’s for sure.
You obviously dont know what it says, because you arguing against the unconditional love of God, otherwise known as the Good News of the Gospel. Better try reading it again… and take off the Fundamentalist tinted glasses this time….
And yes, I called you a Troll….
Tara — Interesting… I didnt realize that the Orthodox prayed for the dead… I knew the Roman Catholics used to pray for souls in pergatory….
Most Protestants(at least Mainline) do not pray for the Dead… I think perhaps the Mormons do(but they are anything but mainline)..
Most interesting you mentioned that… I learned something I didnt know…
Ben,
We had that problem in Germany with our building. Some electrical wiring was grounded to the water pipe and when the water fountain was installed, they grounded it to the metal frame of the building.
Needless to say, those with metal fillings (gold or otherwise) who took a drink from that fountain, got quite a shock (albeit mild)
“Personally, I am a 3 month Pro-Choicer, after that I am a No-Choicer. Compromise you can believe in.” — fleettwood
———-
I’m not taking a position because I don’t know how I would deal with being in a position of making that decision, let alone how another woman would deal with it, BUT, I do want to point out some women don’t know they’re pregnant at that “3 month” stage.
“BUT, I do want to point out some women don’t know they’re pregnant at that “3 month” stage.”
Oops, too bad for them. They should pay more attention.
“My church teaches God’s unconditional love.”
Read the history of the Dominican Republic and get back to me on that.
“Unconditional”? Methinks not.
John 3:36 (NIV) “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”
Rom 2:5,8 (NIV) But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed… For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Eph 5:6 (NIV) Let no-one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Jesus WEPT grmie. I mean dd.
First off, I even posted a LINK to the Minnesota Sec. of State website to show the votes precinct by precinct. I invited bigotbawks to show us the truth of his statement. He couldnt.
Secondly, I did diagram the sentence. Just because you are too stupid to read doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Third, I never said then what I thought anything about Disney. I said rogers supported the Disney boycott. The “supposed” was in the quote I posted. And rogers did support the futile boycott. Unless you can prove otherwise.
But nice try. You tried to make that lies number one AND four. I do love that you are so desperate to take a swing at me that you forgot you were showing us you couldnt count to four.
Just for the record, I do appreciate that Disney makes an effort to recruit gays to spend their dollars at their parks. I doubt they support anyone’s relationships, they just want the money. It’s called marketing. And I notice it was a marketing move that paid off, since they get HUGE crowds on gayday, and your little boycott was so ineffective it was eventually called off.
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAH. He cant understand English, cant read, can understand sentence diagraming, and needs to double count to make his points.
No wonder the good captain calls ya donndumb…
“Read the history of the Dominican Republic and get back to me on that.”
I honestly don’t have the time for the next few weeks, though I will find it if you point me in the right direction. I have never been afraid of viewpoints contrary to mine.
Anyway, my point was to show that God’s unconditional love not a “liberal” or “fringe” concept. It’s a pretty universal tenent.
Why would you use a diaphragm on a sentence farmgrrl?
“Oops, too bad for them. They should pay more attention.” — fleettwood
——–
Would that include the young (maybe 11 or 12 years old) rape victim?
Fleetwood —
Rom 2:5,8 (NIV) But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed… For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Yea, you can argue that if you REJECT the unconditional love/grace of God, then you stand outside of the free gift…
As for John’s Gospel, it often stands over against Pauline understandings… as does the Letter of James…
So there is disagreement among NT writers.. and then there is Fleetwood, the NON believer, telling the rest of us what to believe….
And Fleetie?? You wonder why I call you a Troll?? ROFL!!!
“Would that include the young (maybe 11 or 12 years old) rape victim?”
No.
Tara,
“Anyway, my point was to show that God’s unconditional love not a “liberal” or “fringe” concept. It’s a pretty universal tenent.”
You would be most correct on that!!
“Why would you use a diaphragm on a sentence farmgrrl?” — Regular
—-
I know, (arm in air, hand waving!), to protect it from those who ‘read’ what they choose into the words that weren’t there!
fleettwood, maybe the best compromise would be admitting we don’t know the circumstances of every decision that needs to be made and are unable to make hard and fast judgments?
WTF? Where did I say that?
chas:
Anyone who says God’s love is “unconditional” is being silly. They are “trying to make it right in their own mind”.
John 3:16 makes is clear enough, there ARE conditions. And my beliefs make no diff (again).
P.S. Still waiting for the chapter and verse showing the “unconditional”.
Heheheh Linda. I think that’s the right answer.
#
lindainks55
Posted January 22, 2009 at 7:08 pm | Permalink
“Why would you use a diaphragm on a sentence farmgrrl?” — Regular
—-
I know, (arm in air, hand waving!), to protect it from those who ‘read’ what they choose into the words that weren’t there!
————————-
No,
To prevent pregnant pauses.
“WTF? Where did I say that?”
I think it was a joke. I thought it was kinda funny… Well it would be funny except there are many around here who really do ‘read’ more into words that aren’t even there, so the sentence diaphragm might be good protection!
“fleettwood, maybe the best compromise would be admitting we don’t know the circumstances of every decision that needs to be made and are unable to make hard and fast judgments?”
Sounds like wishy washy hogwash to me. If you are pregnant, according to the fleettwood doctrine, you get 3 months get-out-of-pregnant-free.
“admitting we don’t know the circumstances of every decision that needs to be made and are unable to make hard and fast judgments?”
That’s like asking a con not to breathe. Without judging, they dont exist. Judgment of others is their raison d’etre.
“To prevent pregnant pauses.”
heheheh
“Without judging, they dont exist. Judgment of others is their raison d’etre.”
—
You’re right. I see it every day right here on our tiny blog. In fact, I’m told daily how stupid (and worse!) I am because I don’t agree with ‘certain’ posters.
But you know what? That’s only their opinion! It isn’t who I am, it isn’t even reality.
george
Posted January 22, 2009 at 7:46 am
More socialism on the way with the One. Nice long read about the government, what they will say in our lives. Read it and weap.
http://thehill.com/dick-morris/the-obama-presidency–here-comes-socialism-2009-01-20.html
——————————————-
George,
If you believe everything Dick Morris says, you may be in for a shock. I didn’t see where there was any proof of what he said in that article.
But, I was unable to bring myself to read every word and boy, was it wordy! But was it “truthiness?”
Fleetwood:
Ehesians 2:8-9 — It is crystal clear!!
2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God–
2:9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
It doesnt get any more clear than that, Fleetie…. It is by NOTHING that WE do that makes us saved… It is the UNMERITED FAVOR OF GOD that saves us… NOT works(what WE might do)….
So, Fleetie, you cant get saved by anything YOU do…. Because it is done by what GOD has done….
Now, if that isnt clear to you, then maybe that is why you are a NON believer…. because maybe you are afraid you cant DO something “right” to be saved…
Like I said before, take off your fundamentalist tinted glasses for a while, and actually let it sink in….
By GRACE(unmerited favor) you are saved through faith; and that not of your own doing, lest anyone should boast!! (Eph. 2:8-9)
Jane, Morris did NOT prove anything in his article… just more of the mindless mush, from the sour grapes RIGHT, because they lost their shirts in the election… Now, we will have four years of this kind of lying, trying to show Obama to be some sort of false leader, or as one fundamentalist preacher said over the weekend, the “AntiChrist in front of our very eyes….”
“That’s only their opinion! It isn’t who I am, it isn’t even reality.”
I agree, Linda. But then I’m biased. I know you! You are smart and charming. And a great friend.
It’s their loss…
I remember reading once, “People who do not know how to lose, should not ever win.”
I think we are already beginning to see why… Morris, Hannity, Conservapedia, Limbaugh, Mark Levin, and countless others… all suffering from diahrreah of the keyboard, and/or microphone….
I think their fetish with judgment reflects their own insecurity. I mean, if they arent doing the judging, who might judge them? They are scared “siht” less of judgment day. That’s why they are so busy making sure others are equally frightened.
It’s why we call them bedwetters. :)
“So, Fleetie, you cant get saved by anything YOU do…. Because it is done by what GOD has done….”
I know that, chas. You are preaching to the choir.
Perhaps you could reconcile that with this:
16″For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
“that whoever believes in him…”
Sound “conditional” to me.
Save your breath Chas. He’s just showing you why he’s earned the title of BDP.
Although donndumbya and kia are giving him a run for his money. They’re closing in on the outside rail.
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Whatever, chas. The question is: will The Anchor have Buble on the jukebox? How ’bout Chicago’s Question 67 & 68?
KFG — just more proof that ya cant fix stupid… or in this case, perhaps only mere ignorance, and arrogance…
And where does “belief/faith” come from??
Why, Fleetie, Paul tells you that… it is a gift from God!!
You can walk away from a gift… You can reject the gift… You can deny the gift… BUT — a gift is still a gift…
You do NOTHING to get the gift… it isnt like Santa Claus…
So, what do we DO with that GIFT??
We give thanks… we sing… we pray… we praise… some may even dance!! In short, we Celebrate God’s UNCONDITIONAL gift!!
Better ask somebody who has actually been to the Anchor, Fleettwood… Alas, I cannot attend, since I am not in Wichita…
“In short, we Celebrate God’s UNCONDITIONAL gift!!”
Blah blah blah. Do Jews, Muslims etc. get to Heaven according to John 3:16??
Ah, grrl, thank you! You know I love and admire you!
Guess that’s just our opinions too. ;-)
“In short, we Celebrate God’s UNCONDITIONAL gift!!”
Still waiting for chapter and verse.
See you all tomorrow!!
“No one comes to The Father except through Me”. John 14:6
This statement means what it says, no one can be saved without Jesus, and today it is pushed aside as people become tolerant and respectful, even fascinated by the beliefs of heathen and pagan societies. (Heathen, an irreligious people or unenlightened person. Pagan, civilian community professing some other than the Christian religion, applied to the ancient Romans, Greeks, etc., and sometimes the Jewish sects).
“I am The Way, The Truth and The Life”. John 14:6
Jesus is the way to The Father’s House in heaven, He is also The Truth. Jesus is the One to whom God The Father has committed the Resurrection of the dead. No one goes to The Father who does not go through Him, for He is the only way.
—————–
Fleetwood you are certainly right in the only way. If you are a Bible believing Christian then you know this. This is one absolute that can’t be changed. You can practice another religion but if you are a true Christian this is how you believe.
Walks in looks around. Rubs eyes. Looks again. Rubs eyes again. Closes eyes. Takes deep breath. Opens them.
Yup, still there. Chas is there, advocating for/defending Christian doctrine.
Checks Weather Channel for temperature in Hades.
Chas
Posted January 22, 2009 at 7:41 pm | Permalink
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
—————
Chas are you discounting the New Testament with these verses. Did the death and ressurection happen or not?
As bad as we feared it woud be:
Russell Tice, , former intelligence analyst for the U.S. Air Force, Office of Naval Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) blows the whistle on Bush era spying of all American communications.
“The National Security Agency had access to all Americans’ communications,” he said. “Faxes, phone calls and their computer communications. … They monitored all communications.”
He said he was told to monitor certain groups in order to eliminate them as suspects for more intense targeting. Those groups, he said, were U.S. journalists and news agencies. But rather than excluding the news organizations from monitoring, he discovered that the NSA was collecting the organizations’ communications 24 hours a day year round.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/01/nsa-whistleblow.html
Muslims believe in Jesus too, they just don’t worship him.
George Carlin On Religion
Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.
From http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm ;-)
Remember, Friday afternoon, the Gerald R. Ford Political Action Group will be holding their monthly meeting from 5 to 7 PM at the Anchor Inn on East Douglas. See you there.
The big question, I suppose, is whether George would say the same thing today, were he able.
“Remember, Friday afternoon, the Gerald R. Ford Political Action Group will be holding their monthly meeting from 5 to 7 PM at the Anchor Inn on East Douglas. See you there.”
Are you setting up next to my party? If so, you’re all invited!!
David what I posted was for Chas. It is a personal belief. George Carlin was funny on ocassion but he really wasn’t a religious advisor I don’t believe. But thanks for sharing.
Don’t forget the party tomorrow…lots to celebrate!
Well, after careful consideration Mary, I’ve narrowed my Friday evening down to two choices. Your Bush bash party, or something else.
Okie, I posted this, from Isaiah:
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
I guess you must have missed what I posted a few times BEFORE that???
2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God–
2:9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
Of course, maybe you are attempting to put words on my post that leave Jesus out?? Eh???
Or did you just forget to read what I said before?? Because you just HAVE to jump me about something??? Is that it???
Good grief…. go on back to your troll bridge!! And if you REALLY believe that God’s GRACE(unmerited favor) is FALSE, then why would you want to be condemning me for my beliefs just like normal???
Ooops This is from Ephesians 2:
2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God–
2:9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast.
I like this article. News media bunch of whiners over ahttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17833.htmlccess to the Messiah.
Here you go george, I fixed it for you. :)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17833.html
Chas, as you know or should the “forgiveness and cleansing from sin is not dependent upon what we have done or whether or not we deserve it, but upon the completed work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.
However, this forgiveness is not automatic, but requires belief in Jesus Christ as our Savior. Confession is important for the Christian, since it helps to heal us from the effects of sin and restores our relationship with God (on our side, not God’s side, since God always loves us)”.
We are commanded to go and sin no more, not continue on in our own sinful ways.
Chas I actually didn’t even imply that you were advocating anything. It was just a question. It seems that you were saying that salvation was all inclusive. This would be misleading if you believe that there is only one way to the Father.
No offense intended.
Pmom had written that the Muslims believe in Jesus too. This is so wrong on so many levels that I am surprised you didn’t see the need to help her with her confusion.
Ummm… Muslims DO believe in Jesus…. Have you not been told this before?? I know Muslims who celebrate Christmas… They just do not believe in Jesus as Messiah…
Chas yes they do recognize that Jesus lived and was a prophet and good man. If you were sharing the gospel message about salvation with someone would you tell them that just believing that Jesus lived is sufficient or would you tell them that they need to embrace Jesus as their Lord and Savior. The only ressurrected Man.
Boxlock… You might want to check out Jeremiah 31:31-34 sometime on forgiveness…
Also, Mark 2:1-12….
Boxlock, I believe you said once you are a Lutheran… So, why is it that you are espousing a very strongly stated version of Arminian theology??
The foundation of the Reformation is based in Paul’s writing, in Ephesians 2:8-9… There ARE no requirements for receiving the GIFT of God’s Grace(Unmerited Favor)….
I am somewhat amused, AND also saddened, when people immediately jump to John something or other, when they want to argue against this Unmerited Favor that Paul writes of….
Have you all totally forgotten that Paul would have never even SEEN any of the Johanine writings??? Paul most likely never even saw the Gospel of Mark!!
Paul’s first letters, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, were written in the mid-50’s A.D. — some 15 years before Mark, which is post 70 A.D.
To use John as an argument against Unconditional Grace… is just simple apples and oranges…. ALSO, please do remember that Paul comes from a strong Rabbinic tradition…(He was a Pharisee) And he had a very strong background in Torah and the Prophets…
I suppose you may also not be aware, but nowhere does Paul EVER say that we are supposed to “let” Jesus come into our hearts… Why?? Because Paul is most aware of the words of Jeremiah… God writes the law in our hearts…. And remembers our sin no more… (”Go and sin no more”) is from the Gospel of John….
And there we have the enigma… Part of the early Christian community insisting on individual “doing” or “works righteousness” … and another part insisting on God’s Unconditional Grace and Forgiveness…
Not what WE do to get God’s attention…. but what GOD has done to get our attention… The FREE GIFT of eternal life…
Celebrate!! Sing!! Pray!! Dance!! Praise!!
and god bless… whatever you conceive god to be!!
blessings all!!
so mote it be!!
Paul was a layman. A good man who wrote with a passion. He was however just a man who became a Christ follower.
Therefore I would have to place the words of Christ first and foremost. ‘No man comes to the Father but through Me’.
Christianized Dualism Lives, Okie… and you are one of its disciples… Johanine Scripture came long after Paul… And the “words of Christ’ that you want to hang on to with such veracity are the words that JOHN says are the words of Jesus… John was as much of a layman as Paul… Please keep the timeline clear, and focused…
Ehesians 2:8-9 is the foundational passage of the Protestant Reformation… However, please dont take my word for it… Check it out in Luthers Works, and even look it up in the Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible… It is all in there….
Oh yea, then there is this:
“The only ressurrected Man.”
Ummm… are you forgetting Jairus’ daughter, and Lazarus?? Also all of those 500 who came out of their tombs, at the Crucifixion of Jesus?? (Mt. 27)
Chas,
Don’t leave out Elijah raising the widow’s son when mentioning Jairus’ daughter & Lazarus. Oh, I nearly forgot about Jesus raising the dead son of the widow of Nain.
“Anyway, my point was to show that God’s unconditional love not a “liberal” or “fringe” concept. It’s a pretty universal tenent.” — the wahini
And my point was that since Columbus landed there bringing “God’s unconditional love” not much followed but blood, death and misery. I only know the country like a beginning surfer knows the ocean, but read “The Short Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao” to get a good start. It’s a quick read. What a place!
In a word… weak…
cosmos_originally
Posted January 22, 2009 at 4:40 pm | Permalink
SolDevVB,
Thank you for yet again proving that you do NOT understand the temperature data, scientific methodology, and solar versus GHG forcings.
“Ummm… are you forgetting Jairus’ daughter, and Lazarus??
They died again, later.
“okobserver” –
Considering the whole metaphor (not exclusive to Christianity) of God-as-human, I’ve often wondered if the actual quote from Jesus recorded in John 14:6 wasn’t actually –
“
Repeat after me: No one comes to The Father except through Me”.Like that scene from Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian.”
Brian: Please, please, please listen! I’ve got one or two things to say.
The Crowd: Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Brian: Look, you’ve got it all wrong! You don’t NEED to follow ME, You don’t NEED to follow ANYBODY! You’ve got to think for your selves! You’re ALL individuals!
The Crowd: Yes! We’re all individuals!
Brian: You’re all different!
The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different!
Man in crowd: I’m not…
The Crowd: Shhhh!
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 22, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Permalink
Jesus WEPT grmie. I mean dd.
First off, I even posted a LINK to the Minnesota Sec. of State website to show the votes precinct by precinct. I invited bigotbawks to show us the truth of his statement. He couldnt.
Secondly, I did diagram the sentence. Just because you are too stupid to read doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Third, I never said then what I thought anything about Disney. I said rogers supported the Disney boycott. The “supposed” was in the quote I posted. And rogers did support the futile boycott. Unless you can prove otherwise.
But nice try. You tried to make that lies number one AND four. I do love that you are so desperate to take a swing at me that you forgot you were showing us you couldnt count to four.
________________________
Lie # 5
I am not grmie.
Lie #6
Lies 1 and four are not the same. The lie was “I never said anything about Disney”.
Maybe picking up all those fat STD infested lezzies have given you syphilis and has has made you brain dead.
Lie # 7
Jesus is no longer a baby.
I’m sure Anton LeVey is very proud of you.
Yes SolDevVB, your AGW denial posts are very weak.
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 7:44 am
In a word… weak…
cosmos_originally
Posted January 22, 2009 at 4:40 pm | Permalink
SolDevVB,
Thank you for yet again proving that you do NOT understand the temperature data, scientific methodology, and solar versus GHG forcings.
Try some wheaties cosmos. Hit the gym. Weak, weak, weak.
Poor confused SolDevVB. . . he believes that science is based on muscles.
Help, cosmos has fallen and she can’t get up!
Jane — Yes, I remembered Elijah after I posted… thanks for that… :-)
SolDevVB,
Explain why you believe that measurements of two different regions using two different methods should always match each other all of the time.
Explain why you believe that petitions and lists of opinions are equal or better than “scientific methodology”.
Compare the change in solar forcing during the Maunder minimum to the additional radiative forcing caused by human-added GHG’s.
cosmos,
Explain why NASA is predicting global cooling due to lack of sunspot activity.
“Thank you for yet again proving that you do NOT understand the temperature data, scientific methodology, and solar versus GHG forcings.”
Broken record.
Praise be.
“Maybe picking up all those fat STD infested lezzies have given you syphilis and has has made you brain dead.”
You cons. You are so easy.
What a nice expression of christianity.
It’s what I’ve come to expect from you after your ass has been lopped off and handed back to you.
Heheheheh. The more you focus on minutia here, the more ridiculous your posts become.
Keep it up bro! You are the best recruitment tool the libs have.
Heavy on the “tool”.
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 9:45 am
cosmos,
Explain why NASA is predicting global cooling due to lack of sunspot activity.
———————
Answer your question by doing this:
Compare the change in solar forcing during the Maunder minimum to the additional radiative forcing caused by human-added GHG’s.
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m still laughing so hard at dd and his weenie posts that I have tears. HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEEEEEE!
And not one word about the lies of bigotbawks?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I believe my favorite bumpersticker is in order here.
“jesus, save me from your followers”.
He must be so proud of you!
It looks like NASA has already done that and is predicting cooling. Sorry charlie.
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 9:56 am
It looks like NASA has already done that and is predicting cooling. Sorry charlie.
————–
No, they haven’t. But enjoy your delusional denial.
So which part of NASA’s statement confused you cosmos?
The SSRC has further researched these changes and has concluded they will bring about the next climate change to one of a long lasting cold era.
Interesting comment about STD and lesbi@nism . . . if it’s true as Jerry “Boy, it sure is hot in here” Falwell said that AIDS is a “g@y plague” sent by God to chastise the hom0sexuals, then God must really love lesbi@ns.
They have the lowest rates of AIDS and STD’s of any se_xually active cohort
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 10:08 am
So which part of NASA’s statement confused you cosmos?
The SSRC has further researched these changes and has concluded they will bring about the next climate change to one of a long lasting cold era.
—————–
SolDevVB, are you trying to take fleettwood’s BDP award from him?
The SSRC is not NASA. And the SSRC is a joke.
Indeed, captain.
The obvious bigotry here is just astounding. I am amused though at their attempts to be clever. They just sound more like hillbillies every time they venture into “clever” territory. With apologies to hillbillies everywhere.
Kansas…as bigoted as you think!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/21/global-warming-antarctica
Mystery of Antartic “Cooling” Explained
Scientists have solved the enigma of the Antarctic apparently getting cooler, while the rest of the world heats up.
New research shows that while some parts of the frozen continent have been getting slightly colder over the last few decades, the average temperature across the continent has been rising for at least the last 50 years.
In the remote and inaccessible West Antarctic region the new research, based on ground measurements and satellite data, show that the region has warmed rapidly, by 0.17C each decade since 1957. “We had no idea what was happening there,” said Professor Eric Steig, at the University of Washington, Seattle, and who led the research published in Nature.
This outweighs the cooling seen in East Antarctica, so that, overall, the continent has warmed by 0.12C each decade over the same period. This matches the warming of the southern hemisphere as a whole and removes the apparent contradiction.
The issue, which had been highlighted by global warming sceptics, was an annoyance, said Steig, despite the science having been reasonably well understood. “But it has now been killed off,” he said.
Heheheh. And they are STILL proving that their definition of promiscuous is “anyone who gets more than they do”.
I pity their spouses. They must be SO much fun in the sack!
NASA: Solar cycle may cause “dangerous” global cooling in a few years time
“We today confirm the recent announcement by NASA that there are historic and important changes taking place on the sun’s surface. This will have only one outcome – a new climate change is coming that will bring an extended period of deep cold to the planet. This is not however a unique event for the planet although it is critically important news to this and the next generations. It is but the normal sequence of alternating climate changes that has been going on for thousands of years. Further according to our research, this series of solar cycles are so predictable that they can be used to roughly forecast the next series of climate changes many decades in advance. I have verified the accuracy of these cycles’ behavior over the last 1,100 years relative to temperatures on Earth, to well over 90%.”
SolDevVB,
Again. . . the SSRC is not NASA. And the SSRC is a joke.
The strict CONstructionists are trotting out John 14-6 as always: “No one gets to the Father except through me.”
Really.
Because that means that Ghandi is burning in hell right now. And so will the Dali Lama. Screw his message of peace and loving-kindness, the man will suffer eternal torment in an ever-lasting lake of fire.
Oh, and Moses too. God chose him to lead the Israelites out of the promised land, but since he never met Jesus (while alive), he couldn’t believe in him and you know . . . get to the Father.
Abraham, ditto. Sure, God and two angels personally informed him his wife would give birth to Issac at age 90, but never mind that . . . he didn’t know about Jesus, so he’s gotta fry for all eternity.
Tough crunchies.
SolDevVB’s scientific(sic) source,
http://issuepedia.org/Space_and_Science_Research_Center
CapnAmerica,
So, it is your argument, that if you are a “good enough” person that you get to heaven?
What scripture is that based on?
Again. . . the SSRC is not NASA. And the SSRC is a joke.
SolDevVB’s scientific(sic) source,
Translation:
RealClimate.org has not given me a canned source response, so I will attack the source and not the facts. I already tried to attack sollie, but it didn’t work.
Godalgore, please send help…It couldn’t possibly mean that “no one is rewarded in Heaven except the person who believed in what I represent: peace, love, kindness, and caring”?
The religious CONs choose their narrow interpretation so that they can embrace the sin of arrogance.
We’re better than everyone else!
It doesn’t matter what we do–we’re saved by our faith in Jesus. Meanwhile, all those people out their who live as Jesus commanded but don’t call themselves Christians, well, they’re just going to burn in hell, hahaha.
CapnAmerica,
The problem is that in your narrow little mind you exclude the real truth.
That those who have faith in Christ strive to live by the word.
Merely saying you have faith and then living your life contrary to the word indicates that you probably don’t really have faith.
As you say though, that is where God’s judgement comes into play.
Meanwhile, here you are saying that no faith is required and that only good works are.
So, what scripture do you base that on? Where it says if you are “good enough” you go to heaven?
CapnAmerica,
Here you are talking about sin again. The sin of arrogance no less.
What does it matter how sinful we are if everyone goes to heaven no matter what?
#
CapnAmerica
Posted January 23, 2009 at 10:48 am | Permalink
It couldn’t possibly mean that “no one is rewarded in Heaven except the person who believed in what I represent: peace, love, kindness, and caring”?
The religious CONs choose their narrow interpretation so that they can embrace the sin of arrogance.
We’re better than everyone else!
It doesn’t matter what we do–we’re saved by our faith in Jesus. Meanwhile, all those people out their who live as Jesus commanded but don’t call themselves Christians, well, they’re just going to burn in hell, hahaha.
=============================
This from a “Sunday School Teacher” at the First Church of Secular Convenience.
Fish may help fight ocean acidification:
Fish are a major source of calcium carbonate production in marine ecosystems, a finding that has implications for ocean acidification, report scientists writing in the journal Science.
http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0119-fish.html
Do your part to make sustainable seafood choices! It’s less painful than giving up your SUV :)
http://www.seafoodwatch.org.
Regular,
Exactly.
CapnAmerica’s argument can basically be summed up into two major themes:
1. Everyone goes to heaven, especially those who are good enough.
2. Faith in Christ is not required.
And then he wonders why I would ever say what he believes is not Christian?
Those two statments are the anti-thesis to Christianity!
“SolDevVB, are you trying to take fleettwood’s BDP award from him?”
Can’t have it. Not yours.
C’mon Fleet, you greedy ba$tard!!! You’re going to eat all the popcorn at the bar tonight too aren’t you?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See what I mean?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You should have taken the very first advise I gave you!
Nathan–My argument has never varied since the first time we had this argument.
1. The idea of “knowing Christ” is not limited to becoming Christian–example, John 16:2-3–”a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.”
2. Judgment is for the Trinity alone.
Not for man.
John 16:8–When he [the Counsellor--The Holy Spirit] comes, he will expose the guilt of the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment . . .
And Rom. 11: 33 the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
3. I’d also be very careful about arrogant pride in one’s “faith,” if that means looking down on others who think differently:
Rom. 14:1–Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment
Rom. 14:10–You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
And later: Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.
James 2: 13–because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
And Timothy 3:6–He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
Wahine_Tara
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:02 am | Permalink
Fish may help fight ocean acidification:
Fish are a major source of calcium carbonate production in marine ecosystems, a finding that has implications for ocean acidification, report scientists writing in the journal Science.
——————————
So we need more groupers in coral reefs then. :D
CapnAmerica,
You didn’t even bother to address my questions.
The scripture you cited doesn’t defend your claims that one need only be “good enough” to get to heaven and that you don’t have to have faith in Christ either.
1. Calling yourself a Christian and having faith in Christ and not calling yourself a Christian are mere semantics.
The point at hand is faith in Christ. Either you believe in Christ or you don’t. Calling yourself a Christian doesn’t matter.
So, do you or do you not believe that faith in Christ is part of salvation?
2. Yes, I agree, Actual judgment is for God alone. Yet, what will be those standards for the judgement?
You keep arguing that people who are “good enough” will get to heaven and that faith in Christ is not needed.
What do you base that on?
Then you talk about sin as if it matters. How can you sit here and talk about others being sinners when according to your arguments sin doesn’t matter.
Who are you to “judge” others by saying what is a sin and what isn’t? (Of course I am only using your argument against you here)
3. What does any of that have to do with our discussion?
“You’re going to eat all the popcorn at the bar tonight too aren’t you?”
Maybe. Maybe not. I am a mystery.
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 10:46 am
Again. . . the SSRC is not NASA. And the SSRC is a joke.
SolDevVB’s scientific(sic) source,
http://issuepedia.org/Space_and_Science_Research_Center
—————
Translation:
RealClimate.org has not given me a canned source response, so I will attack the source and not the facts. I already tried to attack sollie, but it didn’t work. God algore, please send help…
———————————-
SolDevVB, you attack yourself — you couldn’t understand the obvious difference between NASA, and a tiny for-profit AGW denial group
Thank you for again attacking AL Gore, instead of the climate scientists.
RC and others have info about solar (Maunder minimum, etc) if you want to educate yourself. But SolDevVB seems to prefer his ignorance and denial.
Broken record.
Praise be.
Nathan says I believe that
1. Everyone goes to heaven, especially those who are good enough.
False. I believe that the “judgments of the Lord are righteous altogether.” I don’t presume to know more than He does.
2. Faith in Christ is not required.
It depends on how one defines “faith in Christ.” There’s a parable in the Bible about two sons. One said, “yes, Father, I’ll do whatever you say,” and did nothing. The other said, “forget it, Father, I’m not doing that, but then he went out and did it.”
Which one is better–the one who “confessed” his obedience or the one who acted on it?
I believe there are those who “follow His will and walk in His ways” that don’t profess Christ as their Savior.
How will they be judged before the throne? Not possessing the mind of God, I don’t know. (see above)
But I do believe what Paul said, “he that shows mercy will be shown mercy.”
Hey cosmos, how much wobble does the “GORACLE” get when he’s triple-chinning his way through an AGW speech?
I think the last acts before Jesus died are instructive here.
The only person in the entire New Testament (that I can find) who had Jesus’s personal guarantee of “paradise” was the criminal who declared him blameless on the cross next to Him.
He didn’t clearly accept Christ “as his personal savior”–he simply accepted his punishment as just and Jesus’s as unjust.
Because he showed mercy, mercy was shown to him.
1. You just argued for Ghandi going to heaven because he was “good enough” did you not?
Either you believe there is a standard or you don’t.
You refuse to say there is one, when the Bible is full of verses clearly saying otherwise. Then you have no problem quoting the Bible when it suits you though.
Yes, judgement is the Lords alone. Is it your argument that we have no guidlines to follow? That we will just walk aimlessly about in our lives and hope in the end to be judged well? That God left us no instructions on how we will be judged?
2. It is rather simple. You have faith in Christ.
I think you are confused with the difference of actually having faith and simply saying you do. Yes I agree there is a difference there.
But, faith in Christ is still a requirement.
Either you believe that or you don’t. So which is it?
Merely and coincidnetly living a “good” life is not actually having faith in Christ at all.
Where is there any scriptural support for such an absurd notion?
“2. Yes, I agree, Actual judgment is for God alone. Yet, what will be those standards for the judgement?”
Do you REALLY know all of the standards God is going to be judging us by?
Really? All of them? For certain?
Wow, you two must be super tight with your insider connection. I’m jealous!
I mean, if you know all of the standards He’s using then you can just do the judging yourself, can’t you?
Tara,
It is called reading the Bible.
I know that my salvation is secure because God said so.
I don’t live my life wondering if I will meet God’s expectations of merely being “good enough” as CapnAmerica seems to believe.
And lastly, if what I believe is “unChristian,” then so is what Billy Graham believes and a host of other prominent Christians.
In Newsweek, Graham said about who goes to heaven, Jews, Hindus?
“Those are decisions only the Lord will make . . . I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have.”
Robert Schuller from May 31, 1997, more than 10 years ago? Was he senile then?
And a 1997 interview with Robert Sculler–
Dr. Schuller: “Tell me, what is the future of Christianity?”
Dr. Graham: “Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know, I think there’s the body of Christ which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups. I think that everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time.”
“What God is doing today is calling people out of the world for His name. Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light they have and I think they’re saved and they’re going to be with us in heaven.”
Oops, disregard the “senile” reference.
That was nasty editorializing on the part of the website where the quotes were located.
CapnAmerica,
Giving me some vague quotes from others on Christianity is not a defense nor explanation for what you are saying.
I don’t disgagree with what you quoted. I don’t agree that it is a validation of what you are saying though.
Those quotes don’t talk about being “good enough” to get to heaven nor do they denounce that faith in Christ is key to salvation.
DEAR DR. GRAHAM: Why do Christians believe Jesus is the only way of salvation? Isn’t that being rather narrow-minded and judgmental? The world has a lot of people in it who don’t believe in Jesus, but some of them are just as good as the Christians I know (or even better). — S.W.J.
DEAR S.W.J.: One reason Christians believe Jesus is the only way of salvation is because this is what Jesus claimed about Himself. He declared, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).
Why did He make such a startling claim? Was it out of pride or ego? Or was He mentally unbalanced, or even deliberately lying to trick people into following Him? No, none of those “reasons” stand up once you carefully examine Jesus’ life and teachings. Why, then, did He say He was the only way to the Father? Simply this: He knew that He was the unique Son of God, sent by His Father into the world to save us from our sins.
You see, only one thing separates us from God and keeps us out of heaven — and that is our sin. This is why our greatest need is to have our sins forgiven and cleansed, for only then can we be reconciled to God and go to be with Him throughout eternity.
But how is this possible? No matter how good we are, we can never erase our own sins. Only God can do this — and that is what He did by sending Jesus Christ into the world for us. The Bible says, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Don’t turn your back on His love, but by a simple prayer of faith commit your life to Christ today.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/graham/334818_billy1102.html
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:15 am | Permalink
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See what I mean?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
______________________
Translation: oooooooooooooooooooooiiiiig
There goes that hoof in the mouth again.
Billy Graham | Jesus is the only way to salvation
DEAR BILLY GRAHAM: I have a good friend who, I think, truly believes in Jesus, as do I. But she says she’s afraid I won’t be in heaven with her, because she believes her church is the only true church, and you have to belong to it to be saved. What can I say to her? — D.G.
DEAR D.G.: No doubt your friend is sincere in her concern for your salvation, and you should let her know you appreciate her concern.
However, your friend has missed one of the Bible’s greatest truths: Our salvation depends solely on Christ and what he has done for us through his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead. No matter how good we are, no matter how loyal we are to our church, these will not save us. Only Christ saves us, as we put our faith and trust in him.
Ask God to help you share this great truth with your friend — not arguing with her, but simply pointing her to Christ.
http://www.kansascity.com/238/story/995696.html
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 11:33 am
Broken record.
Praise be.
——————-
SolDevVB, you are the “broken record”. You have no understanding of science, and no curiosity about science. You believe any unreliable source that writes what you want to read, like SSRC.
And when your unreliable sources fail you, you attack Al Gore, post “praise be”, etc.
Matthew 7
1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured unto you.
. . .
By their fruit you will recognize them.
. . .
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Nathan,
I don’t think anyone here is denything that salvation can only be acheived through Christ.
Rather, the point is that we can’t know HOW Christ might appear for everyone. How someone realizes this gift and accepts it.
Christ is living, and He is still saving. Do you agree?
We can’t know His ways of doing so or make any judgments about it.
That’s why we should only be looking at our salvation, and not the next guys.
I don’t see any contradiction between my Graham quotes and yours.
What I see Graham saying is that “Christ saved the whole world” whether one personally believes in Him or not.
The message of Christianity is love, mercy and forgiveness. Even upon the Cross as he died in unimaginable agony, our Savior said, “Forgive them.”
I have a hard time reconciling that message with every person who dies without exposure to the message of the New Testament burns for eternity in an all-consuming lake of fire.
Maybe you’d like to explain how an All-Loving God who sacrificed His Son for the whole world can be so unfairly cruel.
“That’s why we should only be looking at our salvation, and not the next guys.”
Good point, but it looks like following that reasonable advise would take the fun out of religion for most of the practitioners.
Tara,
I can agree to some extent. There is obviously some area where we will not know how Christ works in others hearts.
However, what about those who openly denounce Christ, and believe something completely contradcitory to what the Bible teaches?
It is not such a grey area anymore where we can sit around wondering if Christ is working in them in some mysterious way, but they are still going to heaven…
If one openly and willingly believes in a god or many gods and rejects Christ do you still believe they are going to heaven that their salavation is without doubt?
Not only that, don’t you think that as a Christian, we should look out for others salvation?
That we should encourage them to accept Christ if they have not?
Are we supposed to be content with ourselves and not care about anyone elses eternity and relationship with God?
SolDevVB, you are the “broken record”.
I know you are but what am I?
Lets see if this sounds familiar :
Attack the poster –
Attack the source –
Repeat as necessary.
Sounds like comos’ broken record to me.
CapnAmerica,
You still refuse to answer my questions. You love to talk in these vague generalities while implying I am sinfully arrogant.
So, are there ANY standards for going to heaven or not?
Will everyone go to heaven?
Do you believe we all wander around aimlessly and have no real idea if we are saved or not and it doesn’t really matter because we will be regardless?
What makes someone “good enough” to get to heaven as you love to say about Ghandi?
Was he the only one “good enough” or do you think others can be “good enough” too?
“However, what about those who openly denounce Christ, and believe something completely contradcitory to what the Bible teaches?
It is not such a grey area anymore where we can sit around wondering if Christ is working in them in some mysterious way, but they are still going to heaven…”
You shouldn’t be judging them, no. Leave that to God and concentrate on your own soul.
“Not only that, don’t you think that as a Christian, we should look out for others salvation?”
Yes, in the most humble and loving way. This means witnessing with your entire life. Imitate Christ and others will be drawn to you. Lead by example.
Telling people about how their views are wrong will not accomplish this.
Tara — your post at 1:04 p.m.
^5!!
Thank you.
“Telling people about how their views are wrong will not accomplish this.”
Christians look at others salvation like a train is coming down the track and the non-believer is going to be hit.
Would not the Christian wish to warn them? Or, as you write, do nothing.
fleettwood asks, “Would not the Christian wish to warn them?”
“Yes, in the most humble and loving way. This means witnessing with your entire life. Imitate Christ and others will be drawn to you. Lead by example.” — Wahine_Tara
Tara,
I am not “judging” anyone. I noticed you didn’t answer the question.
It is rather simple. If someone is openly rejecting Christ and they don’t believe in Christ at all, you don’t think there is any clear Biblical indication that they are not saved?
Lets make it more clear. If someone is killing people, living a life of sin, they never repent, they never ask for forgiveness, and they died rejecting Christ…
You still can’t make any claim in regards to their salvation and just sit there on your hands saying… well… it is not your place to judge?
I am not asking you judge them. I am asking you as a Christian if you think you will be going to heaven if you did that?
Yes or no?
So, why is it so hard to say that those are obvioulsy things that will deter someone from salvation? Or do you actually think your place in heaven will be secure if you do all those things?
Are you also saying that it is “wrong” for Christians to tell others about Christ then?
How exactly does living your life in a loving way tell anyone that doesn’t know you about Christ?
Do you think that the tribes in the jungles of South America can see how loving your life is?
I think there is a clear argument that going out into the world and teaching them about Christ is just as effective if not more so than merely laying around content with your own salvation hoping others will just see it.
Even Christ told people they were wrong.
So why is it that you think doing so is bad?
SolDevVB posted January 23, 2009 at 12:24 pm
SolDevVB, you are the “broken record”.
I know you are but what am I?
Lets see if this sounds familiar :
Attack the poster -
Attack the source -
Repeat as necessary.
Sounds like comos’ broken record to me.
—————-
SolDevVB,
If you believe that I unfairly attacked you and your sources, why don’t you defend yourself, and them?
For example, defend your insistence (multiple times) that SSRC was NASA.
Defend your source, the SSRC,
http://issuepedia.org/Space_and_Science_Research_Center
Defend your belief that petitions and lists of quotes are equal or better than scientific methodology that’s based on observations, hypotheses, publication, retesting, etc.
Can you do that, SolDevVB?
Tara,
You can both lead by example and go out to teach others by Christ.
Wouldn’t you agree that is even more effective?
Don’t you think that new Christians seeking out instruction should be taught?
How are they taught if no one is willing to teach them what is right or wrong and we all just sit around living our lives content with our own salvation?
If anything, that seems rather selfish to me. That you are content with yourself and couldn’t care about anyone else enough to say anything about Christ.
Did Jesus just stay a carpenter? Sit at home and hope people could see what a great guy he was?
OR
Did Jesus make Disciples, teach them what was right and WRONG, go out and tell people about the truth?
“Christians look at others salvation like a train is coming down the track and the non-believer is going to be hit.
Would not the Christian wish to warn them? Or, as you write, do nothing.”
You should be doing what’s effective.
Just saying.
I still love Jesus.
Also, trying to live Christ-like life is not “doing nothing”.
Far from it.
Tara,
Telling others about Christ is effective.
Just saying.
Tara,
So are you saying it is wrong to go out and teach people about the truth of Christ?
Jesus WEPT!
nathan’s last three posts reflect SERIOUS mental illness.
Compares himself to christ.
Teaching others about “right and wrong”
He’s only persecuting us for our own good so the train doesnt hit us….
Get help boy. Seriously. There are about five easily identified in the DSM type mental illnesses exhibited there.
Nathaniel posted January 23, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Tara,
Telling others about Christ is effective.
Just saying.
—————–
It’s not effective when Nathaniel is the one telling others about Christ.
Some of us have known for a long time how deeply disturbed he is. I’m just surprised he’s being so open about it. His god complex has gotten so far out of control he isnt even trying to disguise it.
How long before he seriously harms someone “for their own good”?
“If anything, that seems rather selfish to me. That you are content with yourself and couldn’t care about anyone else enough to say anything about Christ.”
I didn’t say I won’t say anything.
I will wait until the time is right, when they ask about my faith.
Or invite them to my Orthodox wedding ceremony the Greek festival or something similar
If you’re really concerned with bringing people ti Christ and not feeling self-righteous, you do what’s effective instead of what feels effective.
Telling people they are doomed to hell might feel effective (or feel good, like you’re scoring brownie points with God), but it doesn’t work. It does exactly the opposite.
defend yourself,
defend your insistence
Defend your source
Defend your belief
The sun is at an incredibly low level of activity. Temperatures are already falling. It takes years for that energy to reach the earth. But temperatures are already falling.
Defend? I show you a thermometer.
Defend that even with historically high CO2 levels, the earth cools.
Defend Hansen’s non-peer reviewed cryptic/secret algorithm for fudging the temperature data.
As the globe continues to cool, you look more and more the fool. You can’t even accept that there has been no warming over the last 8 years. Your religion is so weak it can’t even account for that.
I post reality. The globe is cooling. I am hoping it doesn’t cool to the point of devastation. You post your fantasy religion. Your false faith in a false “science” that is backed by billions of dollars and many many many outstretched hands for a piece of it.
I am betting you don’t even get paid for your shilling. Even more the fool.
______________________________________
Attack the poster –
Attack the source —
Bout all you have anymore cosmos.
“Tara,
So are you saying it is wrong to go out and teach people about the truth of Christ?”
I’m saying it’s countereffective at best, or downright offensive at worst.
Like when you tell KFG to “repent her sinful lifestyle, there’s still time.”
You’re not doing it to witness, you’re doing it to be a jerk.
Tara,
How dare you “judge” me… call me a jerk.
I am not out telling people they are going to hell and I don’t think that is what most Christians are doing either.
You can tell someone that they are wrong in a loving way, inform them about Christ in a loving way, and teach them about the Gospels.
All that without saying they are going to hell!
You still didn’t answer my questions either.
What I find really sadly ironic about Christians like you is that you have no problem telling me I am wrong, but you sit on your hands and act like you are “judging” someone if you say that they are living a life that is not heaven bound.
So how is it that you can call me a jerk, tell me I am wrong, but find yourself woefuly inept at evening hinting that living a sinful lifestyle, never repenting, and rejecting Christ is not going to lead to salvation?
Tara,
I am not trying to witness to KFG here. She is a militant gay person who attacks any Christians taht dare to disagree with her lifestyle.
This is a blog where I come to debate.
My attitude to others in most conversations I have outside of this blog don’t involve dealing with such openly hostile people like KFG. That truly is a waste of time and not very effective.
Tara,
It doesn’t just “feel” effective either.
There are thousands of Christians who go out into the world to preach the Gospel to others and teach them about the truth of Christ.
It is very effective.
am not out telling people they are going to hell
You kinda are, brother. If folks don’t believe the same as you… Well you tell them the only way into heaven is what you believe. End of story.
We went round and round on this too. I asked about cultures that had no way of knowing about Christ. Your best answer was that God pretty much had that sorted out.
Lets just leave it at that?
Tara,
what else is ironic is that your attitude with anyone who disagrees with Evolutionary theory is rather rude as well.
You mock them, call them names, and tell them they are wrong all the time.
Yet, when it comes to your salvation, what you believe to be an eternity with Christ… you sit around and act like the very thougt of telling someone they are wrong is a sin it’s self!
So, in your life you seem to find it more valuable to tell people they are wrong about Evolution and to convince them otherwise, but when it comes to your savior, you remain silent.
Interesting…
“You can tell someone that they are wrong in a loving way, inform them about Christ in a loving way, and teach them about the Gospels”
Ok. Raise your hands if you think nathan does ANYTHING in a “loving way”.
(crickets chirping)
Seriously Nathan. You are more mentally ill than anyone ever imagined.
Get help.
SolDevVB,
Thank you for your hilarious 1:36 pm post. I put a copy on the bulletin board, and everyone is laughing at it.
SolDevVB,
Delivery is important. Of course in a round about way you are telling people that they will go to hell, but that is not how you deliver it.
Either way, is it better to remain silent on where they are going for fear of offending them or to go to them with the truth and steer them onto the correct path even though some might be offended?
Do you think that everyone Jesus spoke to was not offended?
The Jews? Last I checked he offened a rather large number of people who eventually had him crucified.
Heheheh.
And BTW…
I knew I was an atheist long before I knew I was gay.
And I never loathed christianity until 2005. I thought it was amusing in a head shaking kind of way.
But I lost my “live and let live” attitude on April 4, 2005.
Now? It’s war.
And time is on my side.
I put a copy on the bulletin board, and everyone is laughing at it.
So you are in some kind of mentally challenged home or something?
Why wouold I care about what the other inmates think?
“Either way, is it better to remain silent on where they are going for fear of offending them or to go to them with the truth and steer them onto the correct path even though some might be offended?”
That God complex is dangerous.
Only you know “the truth”?
Jesus WEPT! You need to be locked up and heavily sedated.
“I asked about cultures that had no way of knowing about Christ.”
If they don’t know, they don’t burn.
That’s the old joke.
The Tribe chief says, “Why did you tell me”?
And, I still love Jesus…with or without war.
I wonder how “effective” nathan is at bringing ANYONE to christ.
I wonder if his “drive people from christ” score is higher than his “brought people to christ” score.
From seeing his posts, I think I have a pretty good idea.
Nathaniel,
I’m puzzled by your posting falsehoods about AGW science, and your then blaming me for your failure to provide sources.
You seem to be lying, and also shirking your personal responsibilities.
Is that behaviour admired by your Christ?
Folks criticize Nathan for his refusal to compromise on the truth from the Bible. Some even accuse him of mental illness. But Jesus warned that it would be this way.
“If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you….
“If they persecuted Me they will persecute you… for they do not know the One who sent Me.”
John 15:19-21
I’m thinking this is outie and nathan’s brand of religion.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
And Paul had interesting things to say about the challenges of discussion spiritual things with non-believers:
“The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c]
14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:
16″For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”[d] But we have the mind of Christ.” – 1 Corinthians
Nathaniel has looked into the hearts of some posters here at WEBlog and declared they are not Christians even tho they profess to be. And then he tells us he doesn’t judge.
You might be right outie.
Because this is what you and nathan sound like to me.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1180532906036770570VpoTCj
“And then he tells us he doesn’t judge.”
He’s not judging and you know it. He knows the rule book. He’s just calling the foul. God will judge.
When a person tells another they aren’t a Christian it sounds judgmental to me. It sounds a lot like being able to look into a man’s heart and know…
Come on, I mock people about science because believing things like “kangaroos swam over to Australia after the flood” is just funny. Seriously, it’s ridiculous.
Telling people about Christ is not effective unless people are WILLING, are OPEN to receiving the message. The reason mission work is effective is because it usually involves charitable work, which might make those who benefit willing and open to listen. It’s the actions that bring people in.
It took years to undo the damage people like you did, making “loving” comments about how my mother’s religion was pagan and sinful, but I converted because of someone who was truly “Christ-like”. I was fascinated by his loving nature and selfless works. One day I asked about his church. Four years later I converted. Had he sprung it on me before I was ready I would have been seriously annoyed and discarded it without a second thought.
I know, it’s not as satisfying as sitting down next to someone and going “Sooo…do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?”
Nathan asks, “So, are there ANY standards for going to heaven or not?”
Yes.
But since only the Resurrected Jesus “who sitth at the Right Hand of God the Father, from thence he shall judge the quick and the dead” is in a position to know how well we met these standards, it is impossible for me to say if you or I met the standards or not.
Will everyone go to heaven?
The Bible says, “no.” See above: ?Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Do you believe we all wander around aimlessly and have no real idea if we are saved or not and it doesn’t really matter because we will be regardless?
No. I think The Bible gives us hope that we can gain eternal life by our faith. But that doesn’t put us in a position to say if others will receive eternal life.
What makes someone “good enough” to get to heaven as you love to say about Ghandi?
I have no idea if Gandhi is in heaven or not. In fact, the only person who I can be sure is in heaven is the criminal on the cross, because that’s what Jesus said to him.
I just can’t imagine a just God condemning someone like Gandhi–who spent his entire life doing God’s will–to an eternal lake of fire just because of the technicality that he wasn’t raised a Christian and therefore didn’t accept Christ in the traditional Christian way.
Was he the only one “good enough” or do you think others can be “good enough” too?
I think that those who are merciful will have mercy shown toward them. That’s what Paul said.
I would have to agree with….argh…Capn’A’s 3:03 pm post.
Seems reasonable to me/matches what I generally believe.
Okay, I answered all your questions.
Now you answer mine: Does a just God sentence ten year old children or the Yanamomo tribe who die of Chaga’s disease to eternal damnation because they didn’t “profess with their mouths” that Christ is their savior?
How about the adults of the Yanamomo tribe?
Does a just God sentence ten year old children or the Yanamomo tribe who die of Chaga’s disease to eternal damnation because they didn’t “profess with their mouths” that Christ is their savior?
How about the adults of the Yanamomo tribe?
—————–
I find the most truthful answer to that question would come from a child as they are unpolluted(generally they have the best insight into these things).
God would not damn them.
How about the 1 billion Muslims of the world–who profess to worship the same God we do?
How about the 15 million or so Jews–who worship the same God we do?
How about the 376 million devout Buddhists? The 900 million Hindus? The 23 million Sikhs? The 7 million Baha’is that respect all religions?
The 4 million Jains that are so pacifistic and respect life so much that they refuse to drive cars lest they accidentally kill a bug?
Out of all these billions and billions, are you going to say that to be a Christian, you have to believe that not a single one will gain eternal life?
Out of all these billions and billions, are you going to say that to be a Christian, you have to believe that not a single one will gain eternal life?
===============
I’m not saying that at all. I am not God.
Nathan apparently thinks God would and does, ANTI.
And what’s worse, he thinks if you don’t think so too, you’re not a Christian.
“Out of all these billions and billions, are you going to say that to be a Christian, you have to believe that not a single one will gain eternal life?”
If one believes what Jesus said, then yes.
It’s burn, burn, and burn.
Nathan apparently thinks God would and does, ANTI.
==============
What? Did you not read my post?
The questions are directed at Nathan, Anti.
You and I seem to have no quarrel on this issue.
A rare day, isn’t it?
Oops, misread your post Capn’A- Sorry.
A very rare day! :D
“Out of all these billions and billions, are you going to say that to be a Christian, you have to believe that not a single one will gain eternal life?”
I would never say that, not being God and all. But I wouldn’t hesitate to repeat what Jesus said about it. To do otherwise and adopt the pc line might condemn someone who might otherwise be saved. Not sure that God would look on that favorably.
After that, it is not up to me.
One man may hit the mark, another blunder; but heed not these distinctions. Only from the alliance of the one, working with and through the other, are great things born.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I think it’s complicated by the fact that in context Jesus was saying it to the Jewish establishment who had rejected him as the Messiah (Heb., meshiah).
It may not be very relevant for people who are completely outside this messianic tradition.