Barack Obama took a crucial step in restoring America’s reputation around the world by ordering Thursday that the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, be closed within a year and that the United States stop torturing detainees. These moves should aid the fight against terrorism by helping us form stronger alliances with other countries and removing a recruitment tool used by terrorist groups. Intelligence experts also have said that torturing detainees has hurt the war effort, because the information extracted is unreliable and inadmissible in legal proceedings. The challenge will be determining what to do with some of the detainees now held at Gitmo, especially when lawmakers in Kansas and elsewhere are trying to block prisoners from being moved to military facilities in their home states.
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90 Comments
Does Brownback think Kansans are so incompetent that they can’t hold some innocent people in prison? Perhaps he does, he relies on Kansas’ incompetence to keep him elected.
The Leavenworth and Lansing area is a prison town, perfect site for the Gitmo detainees. Presumably the Gitmo detainees would be placed in the military prison on the U.S. Army’s Ft. Leavenworth grounds.
Symbolism Only Goes So Far
Share Post PrintJanuary 22, 2009 Posted by John at 3:10 PM
Today Barack Obama issued an entirely symbolic executive order, directing that the terrorist detainee facility at Guantanamo Bay be closed within one year. Gitmo, of course, was created in answer to the question, What are we going to do with captured terrorists? Now, with that facility slated for closure, the question arises once more.
It arose, in fact, in Press Secretary Robert Gibbs’ first press conference today. I found this exchange somewhat amusing
(read the exchange in the press conference)
So, in other words, Obama’s order accomplishes nothing other than to kick the can down the road. The question of what to do with the terrorists will be “studied”–and, by the way, it’s now a “very complex, very detailed question.”
Today’s executive order can charitably be described as meaningless, but it illuminates the least attractive side of Barack Obama: his tendency to combine self-righteousness with lack of seriousness.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/01/022622.php
The “smart people” don’t even have a plan. But the Fever Swampers are happy because Gitmo is closing. Assuming SOMEONE comes up with a plan.
Heckler, the captured terrorists have been in American prisons for quite some time after they were caught under Clinton’s reign, tried, found guilty and imprisoned. So far no terrorists are being held at Gitmo. If they had any then charges would have been filed against them.
Maggott you are an idiot.
This statement shows just how clueless you are-
“So far no terrorists are being held at Gitmo. If they had any then charges would have been filed against them.”
Go study up.
Clueless? Gitmo has had nearly 500 inmates, only 10 have had charges filed against them but the Supreme Court decided Hamdi v. Rumsfeld which put a damper on Bush’s efforts to file trumped up charges. So who has actually been shown to be guilty of being a terrorist who still resides there?
Finally, rationale thinking is overpowering irratonale fear.
That’s “irrational”..not enough caffeine!
Just read on Fox news that a Saudi that was released from GITMO is back in Al Qaeda in Yemen.
It appears that the initial reason for his arrest and detainment was dead on.
You know the leftist and liberals don’t give a rat’s azz about these people in GITMO, they are doing just to poke a stick in the eye of President Bush.
Just as operatives and intelligence agent were ignored during Clinton’s reign, there appears to be a repeating of the pattern to cast a blind eye to reality.
The new motto in Eddie Murphy’s style, plug one’s ears up with their figures and shout ,”La la la la, I can’t hear you” will come back to haunt them.
Maggott says-
“So who has actually been shown to be guilty of being a terrorist who still resides there?”
You again display complete ignorance.
Here’s a clue. Gitmo is not a “prison” in the context of a civilian criminal justice system.
Another clue. Think war.
“Just read on Fox news that a Saudi that was released from GITMO is back in Al Qaeda in Yemen.”
You need to find more reliable sources for your information…Fox even admits it’s entertainment..not real news. That’s why they call it (even those who work for FOX, like my husband) “Faux News”.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted January 23, 2009 at 7:08 am | Permalink
You need to find more reliable sources for your information…Fox even admits it’s entertainment..not real news. That’s why they call it (even those who work for FOX, like my husband) “Faux News”.
==============================================================
Typical Lib answer Mary…
The Associated Press generated the story, Fox just reported it.
Al Qaeda Chief Was Released by U.S. From Gitmo
CAIRO, Egypt — An Internet posting purportedly by Al Qaeda in Yemen says the group’s second in command is a Saudi national released from Guantanamo in 2008.
The militant, Said Ali al-Shihri, is suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September. He was released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with Al Qaeda in Yemen, the New York Times reported Friday.
The posting by the Yemeni group — known as “Al Qaeda in Arabian Peninsula” — surfaced on Wednesday on jihadi Web sites that regularly carry Al Qaeda messages.
Al-Shihri says his prisoner number in Guantanamo was 372.
The statement says al-Shihri attended a meeting of Al Qaeda commanders in Yemen during which the top leader gave an interview to a local journalist.
“The lesson here is, whoever receives former Guantánamo detainees needs to keep a close eye on them,” an American official told the Times.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Say you have a War on Drugs, a War on Poverty, and a War on Terror. How many wars do you have?
ZERO.
A WAR is when two or more COUNTRIES send their ARMIES to fight each other. Al Qaeda is NOT A COUNTRY. There are no enemy combatants, only CRIMINALS.
And Leavenworth is the perfect place for them.
The only thing state lawmakers are worrying about is hoe much money they can extract from Washington.
Powerline?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Where is fleetie to say “you people need someone to tell you what to think”….
The federal prison system seems to be competent incarcerating terrorists already.
Do you stay up nights worrying Khaled Shaikh Mohammed is gonna break out and come shoot your dog?
“Just read on Fox news that a Saudi that was released from GITMO is back in Al Qaeda in Yemen.
It appears that the initial reason for his arrest and detainment was dead on.” — Regular
——
It might be that the original detainment taught him the hate necessary to think like an extremist.
Every day President Obama proves America will recover from the years of bush.
Silly CONS! You think planning the 9/11 terrorist attack should be a crime! HAHAHA!
What do you think an Al Qeada terrorist is going to do to an American should he find one after being released? Chop off his head or something? HAHAHAHA!
Please CONS, stop reading up on the facts and evidence regarding those who have committed and planned the deaths of thousands of innocent people!
Where is your denial skills that us libs have completely mastered?? HAHAHAHA! CONS can’t deny facts very well can they?
Headlines, Abrupt end to war on terror. I wonder how quickly this will change when are interests around the world are put to test. Terrorists do not play by the rules and there can be no appeasement with these guys. The libs, dems and the One must have their feet held to the fire if any of the killers in Gitmo kill again. Once a killer always a killer.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28807952/
“It might be that the original detainment taught him the hate necessary to think like an extremist.”
Just like a Lib. Defending the indefensible.
Murtha can’t see any reasons for keeping Gitmo detainees from flooding our regular prisons and preventing them from exploiting our civilian court system because he is willfully blind and stone-stupid. John Murtha, meet Lynne Stewart. She’s the disgraced jihad lawyer convicted last year of abetting her terrorist client and 1993 World Trade Center bombing/NY landmark bombing plot mastermind Omar Abdel-Rahman. Stewart helped smuggle coded messages of Islamic violence from the imprisoned sheik to outside followers in violation of an explicit pledge to abide by her client’s court-ordered isolation. While Rahman’s court-appointed translator conveyed the message during prison visits, Stewart made “covering noises” including shaking a water jar and tapping on the table. A draft fatwa was discovered in Stewart’s office; she also signaled Rahman’s wishes to his jihadi organization in an interview with Reuters news service. The publication of those comments ushered in a new wave of bombing attacks by Rahman’s previously dormant terror oufit. The left-wing radical Stewart remains unrepentant and clings to her belief that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were an “armed struggle.”
http://michellemalkin.com/
“Murtha can’t see any reasons for keeping Gitmo detainees from flooding our regular prisons and preventing them from exploiting our civilian court system because he is willfully blind and stone-stupid”
200 or so more prisoners in the federal prison system is hardly a flood. However, I do predict that eventually, many will be freed by American courts because of the way they were interrogated. We’ll just have to kill them in the field. Much cleaner that way.
What to do with them?
Oh gee I don’t know. Here’s a radical idea.
How’s about we try and find out if they are actually gilty of anything in the first place.
“…flooding our regular prisons”?!?!??!!
Just how many detainees are incarcerated in Gitmo, Michele?
C’mon, CONs.
At least attempt to be perceptive.
The entirety of inmates at Gitmo wouldn’t put a dent in the federal penitentiaries’ workload. And most of ‘em haven’t killed a tenth of the number of people that good Lutheran Dennis Rader did. And Rader’s in YOUR Back Yard!!!! over in El Dorado.
What the heck. Build a Super-Max in Leavenworth. It’s a lot of construction jobs and COs and wardens will contribute to the Kansas economy.
Or — which is Sam (the Sham) Brownback’s take — send all those jobs somewhere else.
“How’s about we try and find out if they are actually guilty of anything in the first place.”
Interesting Idea. However, it is a pitiful CON idea. The CONS were trying these suspects to determine guilt or innocence. Obama smartly halted all tribunals to put things in limbo and prolong the process indefinitely.
Monkeyhawk
Posted January 23, 2009 at 7:42 am | Permalink
The federal prison system seems to be competent incarcerating terrorists already.
Do you stay up nights worrying Khaled Shaikh Mohammed is gonna break out and come shoot your dog?
—————————————————
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed? The 9/11 mastermind is a terrorist? But Maggot said no terrorists were being held in Gitmo?
These are POW’s. POW’s have no place in the US Justice system.
Yes, brownback stated on the cable news yesterday he opposes them going to Leavenworth because Leavenworth is a training facility for mid-easterners, and they don’t believe the detainees should be locked up, and would pull out of Leavenworth.
So, can you leave it up to a bunch of hayseeds to keep the supervillans locked up? Brownback says no.
As far as the former prisoner joining al-queda, the source is a web posting, not substantiated. I noticed it said joined, not re-joined, so some will be after revenge after their unjust detainment and treatment.
Kind of like in Gaza, the result is hardened reistance and support of hammas.
Malkin? Malkin?
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHHAHAAHAAHAHAH.
You people really need those wingnut websites to tell you what to think? And where is fleetie to comment on that?
First powerline and then malkin?
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH.
Damn, heckie, with the amount of kookaide you swill everyday… how many times DO you have to whiz before noon?
So all those middle easterners are FINE with them being tortured and held at gitmo, but bringing them to the US would make them mad?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAAAH!
Uh, brownback? The shark called….
Yes, Reggie, that’s what happens when you don’t have evidence–sometimes potential criminals are set free.
I remember when radical feminists took names of men from the phone book, blew the list up to poster size, and then nailed them to telephone poles under the heading “Potential Rapists!”
Since practically all rapists are men and you’re a man, do you feel it’s fair for you to be thrown in prison because you might rape?
If gov’t has a case, then try them and convict them. If they don’t, then let them go.
Anything else is illegal, unethical, and immoral.
Guess Leavenworth is just an educational facility, and not a Real prison.
The difficulty with Gitmo is that the substitute for probable cause became a hearsay accusation from some flunky to a warlord, and our government showed absolutely no interest of getting to the truth. I’ve never seen anything like it.
It’s also worth noting that “tainted” evidence is usually not a reliable indicator of guilt in the first place. Such techniques not only conflict with our values, they don’t produce anything of worth.
In those rare instances when a case is dismissed with reliable indications of guilt, we will at least know who is being released, to whom, where, and why. And any potential adversaries will know this, too. The power of that knowledge should not be underestimated.
But either we believe in our lofty principles of justice, or we don’t. When someone we are sure is guilty–say someone accused of murder–is acquitted due to “tainted” evidence, do we say we must change the system to convict him anyway?
Nope. That’s not how it works, nor should work.
Regular brought this up earlier, but it needs to be looked at again.
Dumba$$ feel-good DimLib policy agenda’s are going to get Americans killed
Freed by the USA, Saudi Becomes a Qaeda Chief…
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/23/mideast/detainee.1-414168.php
“BEIRUT: The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order that President Barack Obama signed that the detention center be shut down within a year.”
The same Malkin who thinks Rachael Ray is a terrorist? The federal prison system never had a problem holding terrorists before. the first twin tower bombers, the Unabomber, and Terry Nichols are all in custody
“I’ve never seen anything like it”
And hopefully we’ll never see it again. It’s a horrible “siht” stain on America and a sad, sad, chapter in our history. But thankfully, it will soon be history.
“we will at least know who is being released, to whom, where, and why. And any potential adversaries will know this, too”
Maybe Tim’s paranoia about a “chip” planted in his ass will come true for these guys? GPS is our friend…
Low Jack the Gitmo guys!
I would think that Al-queda would be extremely skeptical of anyone being released from gitmo, and making him their no. 2 (they sure have a lot of no. 2’s!). There would be a good possibility the guy’s a mole, and has been brainwashed.
Yeah Tom. And you know how scary Rachel and her terrorist scarf were. Kinda like the eeeeeevil terrorist fist bumps.
But hey, dont disrespect heckie’s favorite source! I’m waiting for him to link to freeperville…
“There would be a good possibility the guy’s a mole, and has been brainwashed”
And he’ll have a chip planted in his butt too!
Regular brought this up earlier, but it needs to be looked at again.
Dumba$$ feel-good DimLib policy agenda’s are going to get Americans killed
I haven’t yet clicked on the link, but the guy was released by Bush, dumbass, which further proves our point. If you don’t know when they’re innocent, you don’t know when they’re guilty either!
Meanwhile, any credible journalist would be asking Obama some tough questions like:
-Where are the prisoners going to go?
Instead, everyone just sits here happily cheering and clapping because they can “feel” better now.
The crazy American system is based on the prospect that some guilty may go free to prevent innocent people from being convicted. At least it used to be.
If Obama wants them to go to Leavenworth, does it even matter what brownback thinks?
Phantom, I believe the opposing idea is something like “Kill ‘em all, and let God sort ‘em out.”
#
Rage
Posted January 23, 2009 at 10:27 am | Permalink
Regular brought this up earlier, but it needs to be looked at again.
Dumba$$ feel-good DimLib policy agenda’s are going to get Americans killed
=====================================
I never wrote the above.
I say we send all of them to Arizona. Nothing but desert and old people out there anyway.
If you can’t convict the phicker right, sure, send him here. I’ll introduce him to booze and wild women!
Why the need to put them all in one prison?
Southern Illinois is famous for its prisons. Gotti was transfered there and spent the last of his days. Why not use some of those prisons, Leavenworth, and others? Or must they all be in one?
Why the need to put them all in one prison?
It would be better to seperate them. Solitary comes to mind as well.
Logistics for one reason.
They are not ordinary prisoners. They would require to be seperated from the general population and special instructions on their care and handling.
Spreading them out would only make the logistics of doing that much more hard and expensive.
The cost to benefit ratio is simply not there for spreading them out.
I wonder how our “reputation around the world” will be affected when and if one of the released is involved in a terror attack here or abroad.
Obama has a problem with Gitmo.
He closed the hated symbol of the oppressive and unjustice, torturing USA.
But he has not provided justice for those who are suspected as being responsible for September 11th – and are presently detained. And no justice for the victims, the families of those murdered on 911.
Gitmo, in the end was just a symbol. The hard issue still confronts us. Do they bring the warriors, terrorists, enemy combatants into CONUS and prosecute them in US courts? If he does, will they all get off free?
And of those already released previously under the former administration, does it matter that a large number of them returned back to battle – sworn to kill Americans?
Clap and applaud for Obama closing Gitmo, but the problem did not magically disappear.
Democrats are still in a pickle. They have exactly the same legal problem with the detainees as they had in Gitmo. Changing the scenery does not change the dilema.
#
Nathaniel
Posted January 23, 2009 at 10:59 am | Permalink
Logistics for one reason.
They are not ordinary prisoners. They would require to be seperated from the general population and special instructions on their care and handling.
Spreading them out would only make the logistics of doing that much more hard and expensive.
The cost to benefit ratio is simply not there for spreading them out.
=====================================================
Really? The cost of terrorism outweighs the benefit of fighting terrorism? That seems to be what you are suggesting.
But a look at this particular problem, and your suggestion, points out just the opposite:
By spreading out the detainees from gitmo, one could rightly assume that correspondence between the detainees would be reduced . . . a good thing. Plus, if the guards can’t control the detainees, regardless of placement in the prison system, we have a problem with security, not terrorists.
I suspect the main problem will be with the current prison population itself: they will not like being housed with suspected terrorists, and will attempt to eliminate as many as they can. The gitmo detainees will probably have to be housed in separate cell blocks, but that shouldn’t create any problems.
Mr_Kia,
They already have been. Yet that doesn’t matter to the liberals.
We can all “feel” better now because Gitmo is going to be closed.
We have no idea what Obama is going to do with any of the prisoners there, but why would we ask any questions of Obama?
The Leavenworth and Lansing area is a prison town, perfect site for the Gitmo detainees. Presumably the Gitmo detainees would be placed in the military prison on the U.S. Army’s Ft. Leavenworth grounds.
Personally, I think they would do more for the Wichita economy than Leavenworth (US Disciplinary Prison. Lansing is the State Prison). The USDB is a fairly new facility – the old 1877 building. Fewer beds. Designed to hold the “average” US military prison population. Not designed for “enemy combatants”. Gitmo has a 500 million dollar building for that.
“The federal prison system never had a problem holding terrorists before. the first twin tower bombers, the Unabomber, and Terry Nichols are all in custody”
So is Lucas Helder, the Mailbox Bomber who remains in the Federal Medical Center in Rochester, Minnesota. He was declared mentally incompetent to stand trial (i.e., he’s insane.)
President Obama has begun an entire detainee policy overhaul. This is one step! But if you hurry with your criticisms maybe you’ll be able to keep up as progress is made.
American_Way
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink
Obama has a problem with Gitmo.
He closed the hated symbol of the oppressive and unjustice, torturing USA.
But he has not provided justice for those who are suspected as being responsible for September 11th – and are presently detained. And no justice for the victims, the families of those murdered on 911.
====================================================
And Bush did? 9/11 happened in 2001; it’s now 2009. Bush had over seven years to “provide justice to those who are suspected as being responsible for September 11th – and are presently detained.”
And now it’s Obama’s fault? And he’s been prez for how long?
You’re correct in that gitmo is a symbol, and a bad one for this country, and it was made such by the Bush administration. Closing it is the right thing to do.
For those held for years in Gitmo, it was no “symbol.” It was a horrific and profoundly un-American reality.
JM Walker,
I said no such thing. I simply said that there is no real problem with keeping them together vs the cost of having to seperate them.
If we are really hashing things out, what was the problem with Gitmo?
We have a system in place that has been tested and perfected. The Red Cross and other humanitarians are there, lawyers are there, a well trained and professional guard system is in place.
What exactly is the point of moving them?
Oh yes… it makes you liberals “feel” good.
“But if you hurry with your criticisms maybe you’ll be able to keep up as progress is made.”
ROFLMAO!!! Good one Linda!
with suspected terrorists, and will attempt to eliminate as many as they can. The gitmo detainees will probably have to be housed in separate cell blocks, but that shouldn’t create any problems.
Really? JMWalker do you appreciate the cost involved with that? Not to mention the finding space in overcrowded prisons? You need to hire staff. Present staffing is below minimum staffing requirements at most correctional facilities. Why? We pay them dirt. You need to run shifts 24-7. You need to supply inmates with food, excersize facilities, healthcare, etc…..
Now consider the costs of you propose “solitary” confinement: restrictions from the USA criminals.
Solitary is an entirely more expensive operation.
Perhaps they could ‘mingle’ with the present population. Convert a few Americans to Muslim and have them spread their terrorist activity from within? That’s what inmates do ya know. They make friends inside the walls. It’s a whole new world of “networking”.
JMWalker, you are talking some real bucks and planning involved. Lead time.
But still it does not address the legal issue. No trials but you are willing to lock them up in prison?
HOW DARE YOU! You call yourself a liberal?
Isn’t that Bush did?
It was a horrific and profoundly un-American reality.
Actually, that would be the desired effect. Many of these guys murdered Americans in Afghan and fought against our soldiers.
Don’t you remember: We’ll put a boot up your a$$ it’s the American way.
Sure heard a lot of people singing along to that song a few years ago.
What’s changed?
Why would anyone think that our rights under our Justice system as Americans applies to foreign combatants?
Would you have suggested the same treatment for Japanese soldiers in the South Pacific for instance?
Ask Toby Keith. Like many Americans, he woke up.
What exactly is the point of moving them?
Oh yes… it makes you liberals “feel” good.
Bingo Nathan. It is going to be fun to watch the libs squirm when they face reality. Right now is too soon. They are still clapping each other on the back and singing, “Praise Obama!”.
It’s one of those, “give them a minute to think about it” moments.
Wait for the light bulbs to go on……
Maybe the Germans should have keep Auschwitz open. They could have turned it into a daycare center or sumthin’.
““The federal prison system never had a problem holding terrorists before. the first twin tower bombers, the Unabomber, and Terry Nichols are all in custody”
So is Lucas Helder, the Mailbox Bomber who remains in the Federal Medical Center in Rochester, Minnesota. He was declared mentally incompetent to stand trial (i.e., he’s insane.”
All of these charged and convicted under the United States legal system…..
Think about it.
Obama could have simply issued an order ensuring that Gitmo follows whatever strict humanitarian guidelines he wanted it to.
He could have sent down some advisors, made a big deal out of how he is going to ensure that things change there and the prisoners are treated well.
He didn’t have to close it.
But, it makes you liberals “feel” good. Practicality be damned.
While we are on the subject of “symbols” now.
I have listened to you liberals for years tell me that the flag and uniform and other patriotic symbols don’t mean anything, it is the principle behind them.
Now all of a sudden you are interested in the “symbol” of Gitmo?
Too ironic.
“But if you hurry with your criticisms maybe you’ll be able to keep up as progress is made.”
Sorta like when the democrats rushed through the first Stimulus Package for $150 billion, and the bankers relief for $800 billion.
Let’s all hurry up and make progress. Yep. Same thing.
If the al-queda posting is legit., would you conclude that they A. Want GITMO close, or B. Don’t want GITMO closed?
Bush Way – Detainees in Gitmo on trial.
Bush way is “Horrific”.
Obama Way – Detainees scattered around the US waiting to be tried while the process is reviewed – uhh…?
Obama way is better because?
All of these charged and convicted under the United States legal system…..
Good point. But we also have federal holding facilities for those presumed innocent.
#
Nathaniel
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:18 am | Permalink
JM Walker,
I said no such thing. I simply said that there is no real problem with keeping them together vs the cost of having to seperate them.
If we are really hashing things out, what was the problem with Gitmo?
We have a system in place that has been tested and perfected. The Red Cross and other humanitarians are there, lawyers are there, a well trained and professional guard system is in place.
What exactly is the point of moving them?
Oh yes… it makes you liberals “feel” good.
=====================================================
Is that why a majority of Americans agree with closing gitmo? The want to “feel” good? Well over 60% want the detainees tried in American courts. 24% want them tried in their own countries. 6% want them released. I expect the other 10% had no opinion.
http://www.timepolls.com/hppolls/archive/poll_results_248.html
Seems a majority of Americans disagree with you, and in this country, majority rules.
“The cost to benefit ratio is simply not there for spreading them out.”
That sounds to me like you are putting a price (no pun intended)on fighting terrorism. Since when has freedom had a cost/benefit ratio applied to it? I’m bettin’ Ann would call you out on that one:-)
JM Walker,
Where does that poll say anything about closing Gitmo?
Not only that, but it was an internet poll with 1600 votes.
Could you possibly get any more absurd?
Here is a real poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113893/Americans-Send-No-Clear-Mandate-Guantanamo-Bay.aspx
Americans Send No Clear Mandate on Guantanamo Bay
“Is that why a majority of Americans agree with closing gitmo”
I see the problem now. Democrats lead based upon opinion polls. Republicans stand by their convictions. One is consistent, if not overly so. The other is wishy-washy as the wind blows.
JM Walker,
There is a difference in seeing a real benefit vs cost and simply saying that cost doesn’t matter.
Get a clue.
#
Nathaniel
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:30 am | Permalink
I have listened to you liberals for years tell me that the flag and uniform and other patriotic symbols don’t mean anything, it is the principle behind them.
Now all of a sudden you are interested in the “symbol” of Gitmo?
Too ironic.
====================================================
It is the principle behind them, Nathan. What, exactly, is destroyed by burning a flag? A uniform? I despise those who sink to that level, but I also remember this is the United States of America, and deep down, it’s the underlying principle, and the people who believe in it, that makes this country great.
You know, there’s that thing about a tree falling, and nobody around to hear it. I feel the same way about flag burners: of the news media ignores it, it ain’t happened, and nobody cares.
Repubs. stand behind their convictions, just how many convictions in GITMO in the las 7 yrs.? 3
#
Nathaniel
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:36 am | Permalink
JM Walker,
There is a difference in seeing a real benefit vs cost and simply saying that cost doesn’t matter.
Get a clue.
=======================================================
Okay, clueboy, inform me . . . . . .
Just food for thought. Do you all remember the Mariel Boat Lift? 10,000 undesirable Cubans Castro released along with his prison population?
1980.
Did you know that there is still a wing dedicated to them at the Federal Pen in Leavenworth? Yep. When you walk in the main entrance, take the first wing cell block to your left (west side wing).
When I last saw them, they were grabbing their crotches, or flipping us the bird, dropping their pants showing their but ts at any visitors. Never walk too close – get no closer than spitting distance to the bars.
Just a sidenote, but Leavenworth Federal Pen, not the USDB has the size/facilities for this action. Other federal facitilities. Not sure about cell room.
Phantom
Posted January 23, 2009 at 11:39 am | Permalink
Repubs. stand behind their convictions, just how many convictions in GITMO in the las 7 yrs.? 3
I won’t disagree. Water under the bridge. Now what?
You bring them into the US, you have to follow US law – which may be the point you want to make anyway.
But now how do you do that? Heck, they’ve all been “tortured” by the evil Bush. I think a junior lawyer could get them off for that alone?(Not claiming any legal knowledge)
They would have to throw out forced confessions. Rummy was warned that torture could undermine their prosecutions, so the admin set about to undermine the law, and the Geneva conventions.
Try them on the evidence, if they walk, they walk.
Obama Allows Torture to continue.
Inhumane treatment like forced feeding and isolation still happens. Why does Obama want to make the US look bad by torturing these poor innocent people in this way?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17841_Page2.html
“As far as we know, the force feeding and solitary practices continued onto Obama’s watch.”
This treatment is just causing more and more hatred against Americans, yet Obama allows it to continue. Oh how horrible this is.
Inhumane treatment like forced feeding and isolation still happens. Why does Obama want to make the US look bad by torturing these poor innocent people in this way?
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Let’s appease the terrorist.
Let’s get them to their 72 virgins quickly.
Then we can close Gitmo without putting our soil in danger.
The cost you ask?
A nickle a piece.
The cons had half the day to mention the names of the terrorists being incarcerated at Gitmo. The only name mentioned (out of 250 inmates) is Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. However, Khalid is an alleged terrorist since he hasn’t been convicted. Since his confessions were gained through torture they aren’t admissible in court so the Bush regime blew any attempt at convicting him.
Then again, the cons believe that if Bush charges someone as a terrorist then they are guilty because law doesn’t matter much to Rethuglicans. Some day the American hating conservatives will get it in their head that this nation is a nation of laws, not might makes right. But that would entail respecting the Constitution, something they think is only useful as toilet paper.
Kansas Republicans are wetting themselves ’cause they are a skeered of their own shadows.
Maybe the Republicans LOST because they are bunch of scaredy cat bedwetters and diaper wearers.
Grow some Republicans….your cause is forever lost otherwise.
How long before brownback espouses a fear that they’ll break out of leavenworth and head right for the biodefense lab?
How hard is it to catch a bunch of non-English speaking Arabs in Kansas should they escape? They wouldn’t even know where to go. But Brownback is a Republican and they need to keep the American people in a constant state of fear so the people will be diverted while the Republicans rob the taxpayer.
MP,
“How hard is it to catch a bunch of non-English speaking Arabs in Kansas should they escape?”
I bet they could hide out in North Wichita and the authorities would never know the difference.