It wasn’t just a few bad apples acting on their own who were to blame for torturing and abusing prisoners in U.S. custody. Top Bush administration officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, bear direct responsibility, a Senate Arms Service Committee panel determined. Much of the information in the panel’s report was already known. But its conclusion is significant because the review was the most comprehensive so far and the report was bipartisan and unanimous – none of the 12 Republicans on the panel dissented. “These policies are wrong and must never be repeated,” said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
In addition to violating U.S. and international law, torturing prisoners made America less safe. Such actions, the report stated, “damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority.”
It’s a national disgrace.
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49 Comments
So who died from or was left permanently injured from thess interrogation techniques?
Anyone? Anyone?
Regular: John McCain … again?
#
JWink
Posted December 14, 2008 at 6:35 am | Permalink
Regular: John McCain … again?
——————–
McCain was tortured by North Vietnam, not the United States. North Vietnam, not being a signatory to the Geneva convention or generally accepted as human rights advocates.
This is about U.S. policies, not some third world country.
As I said, who died or was permanently injured?
Anyone?
“It’s a national disgrace.”
WELL said. LOOK at the faces of the two in this pic. Those are the faces of evil. They and their cohorts sicken me and make me ashamed that I live in a country where they could rise to leadership responsibility.
So why are the sergeants and privates who were at abu ghraib in prison ?
TomPaine
Posted December 14, 2008 at 6:51 am | Permalink
So why are the sergeants and privates who were at abu ghraib in prison
==========================
I believe that was for shooting naked photos and having dogs yapping at the prisoners.
I had a doberman run up to a fence line the other day and jumped about 3 feet above the fence top and could have easily leaped over to bite me.
Think I should have permanent psychological scarring from that?
I know Barack Obama is on this sunshine “reach out to thy enemy” crap.
I hope he gets over that. The entire bush administration needs prosecution and handing over to the world court.
Regular: I’m sypathetic to John McCain and, in fact, voted for him.
My point was he was injured by the North Vietnamese “interrogation techniques,” read torture, back in the Vietnam War. John McCain was again injured or at least tainted by having some association in the minds of voters as a Republican for the interrogation techniques used on Iraqi’s.
I believe it’s clear most Americans including John McCain found this repugnant.
There is far more to it than scaring these people Regular and you know it.
There is nothing positive that comes from this behavior, either from regular people or from our government.
Thank God Americans- even republicans- are coming to their senses..
#
Political_mama
Posted December 14, 2008 at 7:22 am | Permalink
There is far more to it than scaring these people Regular and you know it.
There is nothing positive that comes from this behavior, either from regular people or from our government.
Thank God Americans- even republicans- are coming to their senses..
——————————-
Yes, we should serve them tea and cakes, give them soft beds with mints on their pillows.
You libs need to start changing your spin. A new and enlightened administration is coming to power.
Same tune, different fiddler.
“Regular” –
Sometimes you’re so foolish when you talk about
stuff you know nothing about.
From someone who’s been there:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1863053,00.html
It reduces your viewpoint to nothing but sadism.
You seem to have become pathological in your own personal version of arrogant ignorance.
I won’t change my viewpoint because it is based in reality Hank. And weren’t you the one yesterday complaining that I was cold hearted for not falling for some nonsense about a dog that someone wrote?
Your belief system needs an update. Torturing animals AND humans is wrong in any circumstance.
Don’t go overboard ,Reg, justifying your position by projecting some ridiculous notion of coddling prisoners onto me. Show me where I ever said we should treat prisoners like 5 star hotel guests. There are just basic human rights that deserve to be maintained.
I had a doberman run up to a fence line the other day and jumped about 3 feet above the fence top and could have easily leaped over to bite me.
Think I should have permanent psychological scarring from that?
I don’t know Regular, were you naked, wet and in the hands of a foreign invader? If so yes.
Everyone has their own ‘reality’, P-Mom. When I read a heart warming story in my email, many times I can relate and I enjoy reading them.
In your sad self made ‘reality’ you find them an annoyance. Sad.
Intelligence is time sensitive. Sometimes you can befriend and coddle a terrorist and sometimes time demands that you find out as much as possible as fast as possible to save lives.
God bless the men that have kept our country safe the last seven years!
There is nothing sad about me Hank. There are real things in life to be sad about. Perhaps you should spend your time focusing on humanity and doing good for others instead of cheering the killing and torture of others.
Go down and see the homeless people out in the cold, that’ll make me cry. You, you probably scoff and walk on by.
Go down and see the homeless people out in the cold, that’ll make me cry. You, you probably scoff and walk on by.
___________________________________________
Really?
Others on this BLOG go to ‘Craig’s’ and alert us to various dogs that need homes. My wife and I are a rescue home licensed by the state. We house or help re-home about 30 dogs a year. One of our dogs came from a puppy mill and one from the humane society.
My wife and I do more for the homeless than most people that I know. I don’t care to brag about it but then I don’t care to take your shit about it based on your self centered perceptions either.
I merely commented on what you bring to the BLOG. You make assertions about me based on your own sorry life.
Sad
When you see the homeless and cry, how does that help?
Sad.
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writerdog
Posted December 14, 2008 at 8:09 am | Permalink
I had a doberman run up to a fence line the other day and jumped about 3 feet above the fence top and could have easily leaped over to bite me.
Think I should have permanent psychological scarring from that?
I don’t know Regular, were you naked, wet and in the hands of a foreign invader? If so yes.
———————–
Weren’t those responsible for that prosecuted and or served prison time?
What are you crying about?
Way too many bleeding hearts out there…
“God bless the men that have kept our country safe the last seven years!”
Yeah they’ve made it a wonderful haven.
For the idle rich.
“Go down and see the homeless people out in the cold, that’ll make me cry. You, you probably scoff and walk on by.”
The net result would be the same.
“The entire bush administration needs prosecution and handing over to the world court.”
““God bless the men that have kept our country safe the last seven years!”
Yeah they’ve made it a wonderful haven.
For the idle rich.”
The insane simply babble on and on, no one agrees with you BlowJay…..and most of the response is to correct or ridicule you.
Wake up.
So there is a consensus that our torturing was wrong. Except from the few wingnuts here.
The important question is who is going to pay? When are they going to pay?
Aren’t cons law & order advocates? How come none of them are demanding that these wrong-doers be punished?
Hypocrites, maybe?
LOL, “Liberals… incompetent” as compared to.. say ..the war in Iraq and the ‘reconstruction’ program… run by which side of the aisles was it now??
Or maybe “incompetent” as compared to.. say… the handling of the economy by putting anti-regulation business people in charge of regulating their own industry?
LOL, “Liberals… incompetent” as compared to.. say ..the war in Iraq and the ‘reconstruction’ program… run by which side of the aisles was it now??
Or maybe “incompetent” as compared to.. say… the last Republican presidential candidate pick?
Shall we go on?
You libs need to start changing your spin. A new and enlightened administration is coming to power.
I’m always skeptical of power, but I can definitely get used to this:
Below is a statement from President-elect Barack Obama on Human Rights Day, the anniversary of the signing of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights on Dec. 10, 1948.
“The United States was founded on the idea that all people are endowed with inalienable rights, and that principle has allowed us to work to perfect our union at home while standing as a beacon of hope to the world. Today, that principle is embodied in agreements Americans helped forge — the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Geneva Conventions, and treaties against torture and genocide — and it unites us with people from every country and culture.
“When the United States stands up for human rights, by example at home and by effort abroad, we align ourselves with men and women around the world who struggle for the right to speak their minds, to choose their leaders, and to be treated with dignity and respect. We also strengthen our security and well being, because the abuse of human rights can feed many of the global dangers that we confront — from armed conflict and humanitarian crises, to corruption and the spread of ideologies that promote hatred and violence.
“So on this Human Rights Day, let us rededicate ourselves to the advancement of human rights and freedoms for all, and pledge always to live by the ideals we promote to the world.”
http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/statement_of_president_elect_obama_on_human_rights_day/
Self-delusion has been the hallmark and the bane of the past eight years under Bush and the out-of-control Republicans:
“Mission Accomplished,” … “We will be greeted in Iraq as liberators,” … “the fundementals of the economy are strong,”… “we do not torture.”
Some posters here insist on carrying on this proud Republican tradition.
Aren’t cons law & order advocates? How come none of them are demanding that these wrong-doers be punished?
“When the president does it, it is not illegal.”
So is “enhanced interrogation” torture?
The United States prosecuted it as a war crime in Norway in 1948. The victims were not in uniform – they were part of the Norwegian insurgency against the German occupation – and the Nazis argued, just as Cheney has done, that this put them outside base-line protections (subsequently formalised by the Geneva conventions).
The Nazis even argued that “the acts of torture in no case resulted in death. Most of the injuries inflicted were slight and did not result in permanent disablement”. This argument is almost verbatim that made by John Yoo, the Bush administration’s house lawyer, who now sits comfortably at the Washington think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.
FROM: http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/bush’s-torturers-follow-where-the-nazis-led/?referer=sphere_related_content/
“If the President does it, it’s not illegal.” Richard Milhouse Nixon
George Bush said we don’t torture, so I guess he lied about that too. and Reg, so your cool with torture as long as their aren’t pics? And why if everyone in the chain of command was approving of the goings on in Abu Garab why is some low lv sergeant the highest ranking person to go to jail? why even prosecute?
I read recently, as a related story to the Nixon/Frost movie, that Nixon considered pre-emptively pardoning himself and others related to Watergate. Any bets we’ll see the real thing (pre-emptive pardon) this time?
Kansas has been slighted, Marquis De Sade Roberts didn’t make honorable torture mention?
Perhaps yes I am a bleeding heart but not for the prisoners its for this country. Sen. McCain was on ABC this morning talking about the conclusion. He told of going to Abu gray and talking to a senior member of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. He asked the terrorist what was the way they gain support for their actions in Iraq?
He was told the greatest help in recruiting was the abuse and torture in Abu gray. You paint it as if they simply shouted “boo” at them. And yes some did die or do you not recall the uproar about those whom died of exposure while in custody? The guards even took turns posing with the dead bodies for a photo.
So yes when it comes to this country soul and reasons why we should survive I am a bleeding heart.
Arguing over terms and intent of what happened is like the Pedophile arguing that he is not guilty of molesting a child he just had sex with a seven years old. Hank uses the excuse of timeliness, which would apply to a known case of a planted bomb or attack. But how many of those tortured were in that category? How can you prevent or intercede in something unless you know about it ahead of time? Of course there is the problem, if you do not know about it ahead of time. Then how do you know to ask about it in the first place? And if you do not know about it in the first place. Then where is your justification for torturing to stop it in a timely matter? Now I guess we can look at this in the same way McCain answered the question of should those in the administration face criminal prosecution for the violations of U.S. and international law? His answer was “ I try not to look back, it would be better to try and stop it from happening again in the future!”. In this there have been a lot of things you could look back on or ignore them, as it does not change anything to look back. WE can ignore the crimes that have been done in our name, but then would that not also be a crime against our name?
writerdog
Posted December 14, 2008 at 12:28 pm | Permalink
Perhaps yes I am a bleeding heart…
——————————————
Which is worse?
A. Having prisoners standing naked
B. Beating a prisoner unconscious and doing it every other day
or
A. Having a guard dog yap at you
B. Having rats gnaw at you while sleeping
=======================
The U.S. did A and people were punished.
Other countries do B and no one was ever held responsible.
Yeah…
There it is…
The U.S. also did B. in Afghanistan.
Except they beat him to death.
“The important question is who is going to pay? When are they going to pay?” StevenEDavis
———
Although not in the way they deserved to pay, I believe they began a payment of sort in the 2006 mid-term elections. They continued payment when the 2008 elections were held. Leaders of the Republican Party espoused ideas and philosophies the majority of Americans won’t accept or tolerate. If they continue supporting torture and lowering American standards to those acceptable by other countries less civilized, they will continue paying well into the future.
So, I won’t argue with their supporters. Let them support all kinds of warmongering. I like the results of elections when people tell them with their votes those ideas and political philosophies aren’t acceptable and won’t be tolerated.
#
Phantom
Posted December 14, 2008 at 12:47 pm | Permalink
The U.S. also did B. in Afghanistan.
—————-
Source where they beat prisoners unconscious?
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,HRW,COUNTRYREP,AFG,4562d8cf2,45c2c7e52,0.html
Sorry, Linda, but for me, electoral defeat is an insufficient punishment for commiting crimes. As Dog says above, for the good of our country, we need to repudiate the behavior of these criminals by punishing them to the fullest extent allowed by law.
It is amusing to me that conservatives, who are personal responsibilty party members, are so invested in not holding this administration responsible. Makes me think of the “H” word.
One of those experts on the side and to justify the administration’s “intense interrogation techniques” stated it was all about intent as to where it is torture or not. He said if the intent is to gather information then it is not torture. If the intent is to inflict pain than it is torture. The same actions but with a different intent and that is how you define torture. You argue the separate actions, is making someone to take their clothes off torture? Is having them threatened with a barking dog torture? is hosing them down and placing them in a cold room torture?
Are you aware that it has come out that the same measure that inflicted everlastingly injuries on John McCain while a POW in Vietnam has also been used on prisoner in U.S. custody? The binding of the arms behind the back then lifted from the ground by the wrists. Oh I guess we can make the distinction that they were not lifted several feet into the air. But just enough to cause pain in the shoulders and wrists and make them stand on their tippy toes. But since it was not done until the shoulders were dislocated from their sockets than that is not torture. It was just intended to gather information, yes there is a difference!
Sorry, Linda, but for me, electoral defeat is an insufficient punishment for commiting crimes.
An independent Justice department should be able to bring charges irrespective of the politics of it. However, to get big fishes you need to get little fishes first (think Libby), so yeah, I expect we’ll see some Christmas Eve pardons, just like Daddy Bush did to cover up Iran-Contra details.
http://www.antiwar.com/rothschild/?articleid=2615
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61941-2004May27.html
Let’s do the right thing here and let the World Court decide the guilt or innocence of the Bush administration. That’s certainly more generous than Bush and Rummy were to the prisoners in Gitmo and elsewhere.
I made no assertion about YOU Hank until you said I was sad because I don’t buy into BS. And you’re full of sheet Hank.
So don’t attack me because I defended myself you ahole.
Phant,
“Marquis De Sade Roberts didn’t make honorable torture mention?”
It’s okay, he only tortures Kansans, and we gave him permission.
He was also in on the waterboarding decision making and approval, he needs to be given his due!