Half of the Kansas delegation cast votes last week favoring the $14 billion emergency bailout for the Big Three automakers – Republican Sen. Sam Brownback and Democratic Reps. Dennis Moore of Lenexa and Nancy Boyda of Topeka. If Republicans Sen. Pat Roberts and Reps. Todd Tiahrt of Goddard and Jerry Moran of Hays had voted for the legislation, it still would have fallen short of the majority needed in the Senate. Tiahrt at least made the worthy objection to the bill’s silly provision barring automakers from using corporate jets. And the White House may end up giving the automakers a bridge loan on its own. But the congressional debate on the bailout was discouraging, with some Republicans treating the issue as an free-market ideological exercise rather than a national emergency. The “nay” voters, including the Kansans, may feel secure in their principles. But are they sure Americans won’t look back on this week as the time Congress told U.S. manufacturing to drop dead?
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42 Comments
“Tiahrt at least made the worthy objection to the bill’s silly provision barring automakers from using corporate jets.”
Rhonda didn’t step up. SHE just launched her foot toward her mouth.
Can anybody tell me? How IS it that an automaker benefits from using corporate jets?
I’ll go a step further. Take away the status of it. WHO needs a corporate jet? What is that except for a chariot for some jerk who is on the hunt to hurry up and get himself and the rich richer?
In this case, good for them. The Big Three auto makers have huge staffs of CPA’s, accountants, tax people, attorneys. Were they all out to lunch or away at expensive conferences? They must have known that the end was coming. Why wasn’t defensive action taken? Why was it business as usual right up until the end?
Perhaps someone told them, “Don’t worry the taxpayers will bail you out.”
Now its time to appoint the touted “car czar” and then weed out the failed executives and their executive staffs. Combine the auto manufacturing companies into one good company to compete with the foreign auto makers.
And let the chips fall. Its time to stop borrowing from China to stop the bleeding.
“But are they sure Americans won’t look back on this week as the time Congress told U.S. manufacturing to drop dead?”
Congress? Uh NO, Rhonda you do not get to make this a “congress” issue.
It is Republicans who tell working Americans to drop dead. Preferably I guess making money and things for rich people. I say let those rich Republicans drop dead. You are invited to join them Rhonda.
The gravy train is over Auto makers and auto makers unions.
Time to change or get into another business.
Two ideological views of the auto industry problems.
1. The big three did not make high quality economical cars so it’s their fault.
2. The big three pays their workers too much so it’s the union’s fault.
Unless we stop thinking this way we’ll all be selling apples for a quarter.
For those with the latter view: put 50 million out of work, then you’ll see a union. A real union.
For those with the former: Why is the only car that Toyoto makes that is increasing in sales since gas prices dropped the Sequoia, an SUV, and why did Ford pickups continue to sell relatively well despite gas prices.
Did you know that dealers are discounting the Prius?
Maybe just maybe, they were listening to their constituents who polls say overwhelmingly oppose anymore bailouts.
2. The big three pays their workers too much so it’s the union’s fault.
Unless we stop thinking this way we’ll all be selling apples for a quarter.
For those with the latter view: put 50 million out of work, then you’ll see a union. A real union.
===========================
Oh!
It’s up to 50 million now eh?
first of all i just want to say that the American way is if your not making a profit, for any number of reasons, and you have to file bankruptcy, its your own damn fault. it sucks for the workers and suppliers that are affected, but somebody will fill in the gap with a better product. As far as the business jets go: none of our airhead reps. sat down and did the math. If you take the 15million dollar salary the idiots pay themselves, and figure the number of flights they take a year, add that with the hours that would be spent at the airport, delays, catching connecting flights, so on and so forth, it probably is cheaper for them to take a business jet. Sad but true
Today’s must-read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/opinion/14rich.html?_r=1
Frank Rich is smarter than you.
Based on the unemployment calculation used during the time of the Great Depression, we already have unemployment of 15%. This could conceivably reach 20%.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/98769-our-coming-depression
Now I don’t know if the above site is valid. I have read studies which indicate that various administrations have been cooking the books for decades, to make themselves look better. Increment by increment, it adds up. I posted a citation yesterday, which of course no one is going to read, because then you couldn’t continue to blowviate your b.s.
But then, most of you wouldn’t be able to understand nor find it anyway, so I guess blowviation deviation was never a serious danger.
Wit = the admission that an opponent has scored a point.
You were better at discussing colonoscopies, Regular.
Ultimately, what is happening to the U.S. is our fault. We won’t stop eating processed foods and sugar, so our health care costs are out of control and our kids are fat and stupid; we elected a drooler to the Presiduncy in 2000 and did it again in 2004, and now we are reaping our reward; we bought the gas guzzlers, we mortgaged our houses to the hilt to buy x-boxes, we bellered like sheep whenever the government threatened to decrease a single benefit or program, and we went apeshit “supporting the troops” which was the same as supporting the war. Now we’re going to get a big Karma harvest.
We mortgaged our future to China for Barbie Dolls.
#
beber
Posted December 14, 2008 at 7:17 am | Permalink
You were better at discussing colonoscopies, Regular.
———————-
Evidently you are better at it, as you pulled that 50 million unemployed straight out of your ass.
I do have mixed thoughts on this, the American auto industry has for sometime been operating as if they were the only game in town. When it came to foreign sales they would often take the position of “its my way or the highway!”. Either you buy the cars we build the way we build them even if they are not practical for the way you drive. But I can not fault them totally here in the U.S. they have been building the cars, trucks and SUVs we the public wanted.
It has only been the cost of gas that has brought about the sudden desire for better mileage. As for dependability we the consumer had moved away from the concept that we buy a car for a lifetime.
Leasing rather then buying a car so once the new wore off and before the problems start we get a new car.
At time I really do find it funny in a sad way, just what topic the Conservatives decide to find a backbone over. When it came to the bailout of the banks and big money industries they handled it like “well they have hit the credit limit on their credit cards so the answer was to raise their limits without demanding they change their ways“. But with this they suddenly act like the small government, fiscal conservatives they claim to be. But this will have direct effect on the common man, if I were the head of the UAW I would have said “sure we would follow the route of the Toyota workers“. It would have meant a raise for the members of the UAW since Toyota workers get 30 dollars an hour average. While the big three get 27 dollars an hour average. But it points to them being out of touch with reality to blame and faults the union members for making under thirty dollars an hour. And not fault the Wall Street types when they are making thousands an hour when things go south.
“Republican Sen. Sam Brownback and Democratic Reps. Dennis Moore of Lenexa and Nancy Boyda of Topeka to taxpayers: Drop Dead”
Regular
Posted December 14, 2008 at 6:33 am | Permalink
The gravy train is over Auto makers and auto makers unions.
Time to change or get into another business.
—
Why wasn’t the same said about AIG, Bear Stearns, Citigroup and other Wall Street companies?
In fact, Citigroup didn’t even need to come to Washington to get their taxpayer-funded bailout –
George W. Bush gave it to them over the phone over one single weekend!
If the taxpayers bail out the Wall Street people, then we should bail out the automakers because that industry really does touch more Main Street people in terms of real jobs.
Personally, I don’t like the idea of taxpayers bailing out anybody – but it seems the Bush Administration does not care how many billions it spends on their buddies – does it?
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mom
Posted December 14, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink
Personally, I don’t like the idea of taxpayers bailing out anybody – but it seems the Bush Administration does not care how many billions it spends on their buddies – does it?
_________________________________________________
Smacks of socialism, doesn’t it.
Republicans are against it until they’re for it.
beber
Posted December 14, 2008 at 7:13 am | Permalink
Based on the unemployment calculation used during the time of the Great Depression, we already have unemployment of 15%. This could conceivably reach 20%.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/98769-our-coming-depression
Now I don’t know if the above site is valid. I have read studies which indicate that various administrations have been cooking the books for decades, to make themselves look better. Increment by increment, it adds up. I posted a citation yesterday, which of course no one is going to read, because then you couldn’t continue to blowviate your b.s.
* * * * *
That is an interesting site, beber. I am pretty sure that those who have been unemployed for a while and give up looking for a job are not counted as jobless under current definitions.
The similarities between recent times and the 20’s/30’s the blogger points out are interesting. And as I pointed out yesterday when FDR took over in 1932 the unemployment rate was 25% which would mean that at the time one in four men were not employed. Which is a pretty staggering figure and it is scary to think that we are drawing close to that number now.
Too bad our ideolougue reps listen to their ideologue constituents. Only good thing is Ks. doesn’t matter politically.
Today the auto industry, tomorrow the aviation industry, who will listen to your crying when that time comes? Certainly not the former auto workers, or their reps.
CNN just reported that Toyoto will likely report a lose of $1.1 billion in the last six months.
Do those Southern senators really think overseas-based auto manufacturers are going to build a bunch of new non-union plants in the USA. Tata sales are up.
They are betting that the foreign companes will be the last man standing, and then have a monopoly on auto sales, along with manufacturing. But when they are, it won’t be a slam dunk they’ll be expanding here rather than at home.
It’s like all those social issue ads say, “write your Congressperson.”
Writing to Tiahrt is like writing to Satan, it only encourages him to keep doing evil.
Besides, it wastes a stamp.
I guess we can always fall back on the myth of The Service Economy will be the engine that employees Americans, just how much of the growth in the service sector was a direct result of the financial shenanigans of the last 8 yrs.?
Maybe the mid-east soverign funds and China will come in and by the distressed companies out of bankruptcy at fire sale prices.
If Toyota need financial help the japanese govt. will not hesitate to help their industry.
“Writing to Tiahrt is like writing to Satan, it only encourages him to keep doing evil.
Besides, it wastes a stamp.” — CapnAmerica
——–
No kidding! If you email instead (saving the cost of the stamp) you still get a canned off-subject response that you know is paid for with your tax monies.
I specifically ask NOT to receive a response if it isn’t an answer to a direct question. I’ve explained that the form letters are a waste of my money and please don’t send me one.
As proof my letter wasn’t even read, the form letter is received.
Tiahrt is a joke — a really really bad joke that isn’t funny.
“But are they sure Americans won’t look back on this week as the time Congress told U.S. manufacturing to drop dead?”
American industry is already practically dead. Certainly the auto makers are.
The whole thing is extortion– give us billions or we’ll fail and that will cost you even more billions.
Perhaps they ought to be allowed to go into bankruptcy or fold. If the operation of the free market is really so important, let the losers fall and the innovative winners arise. The market will, eventually, right itself.
And let’s not hear any more of this “Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better.” Look at the big three– nothing could be less true.
All three of those repubs will be lamenting the closing of the K.C. plant, and wondering how it happened.
Anybody interested in using Time/Dollar money?
It is based off the same principals as what the values of the U.S. dollar is now which is whatever credit you want to give it.
Things are not as bad off as every uneducated currency users would want you to believe in.
When you talk about the recession, depression or bail-outs, in the cost of things, the real power is not the in dollar itself but is how the dollar persuades the trading, the movement among the people.
Stagnation is your worst enemy for an economy.
And btw, I have confronted Tiahrt personally face to face about the principals of money.
It is a subject that is way above most politicians’ head to understand.
The Dems could have passed it if Reed could have held the Dems together. So they need to quit bitching and blaming about the Repubs. He got 10 Repubs to vote for it….but 8 of his own Dems voted didnt vote for it. 4 voted HERE, 4 didnt vote at all.
The vote was 52 to 35. IF his 8 dems would have voted for it…they would have had it 60 to 35
It’s called bankruptcy.
And somebody call the whaaaaaamulance for Rhonda.
“I specifically ask NOT to receive a response if it isn’t an answer to a direct question. I’ve explained that the form letters are a waste of my money and please don’t send me one.
As proof my letter wasn’t even read, the form letter is received.”
Hum, that’s strange, he always responds personally to me in the manner I request.
Maybe he sent the form letter just to pi$$ you off, I imagine he has a dossier on you and is dedicated to making your life miserable.
Man, do I hate defending Tiahrt. Every time that I sent an email or wrote a letter to him he responds with a personalized answer. I even tell him that I’ve never voted for him and plan not to, no matter how many opportunities I am given.
He always has exactly the wrong positions on things that I write to him about. But, I knew he was an “I D ten t” (write this out and substitute the number for “ten”) when I wrote to him. His responses always prove that fact.
Now now Steven, only and idiot writes it like “I D ten t”. Maybe he couldn’t decipher what you write, I know I can’t.
Phant,
“If Toyota need financial help the japanese govt. will not hesitate to help their industry.”
The whole point is that Toyota doesn’t need financial help because it is willing to design the cars and trucks that people want and can afford. Detroit has spent decades trying to convince us to want whatever they design and go into hock for the rest of our lives for it (think Edsel), and when Toyota and the other importers actually listen to their customers and respond, Detroit can’t figure out what it did wrong!
Tiahrt is consistent, he’s always defending the rich while giving the finger to the working people.
“But are they sure Americans won’t look back on this week as the time Congress told U.S. manufacturing to drop dead?”
Yeah, that’s it Rhonda. The Big Three and it’s marriage with the UAW can’t remain competitive in the global marketplace, it its the Republicans in Congress who are to blame.
Politicize everything, and remain clueless about everything.
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it but, Toyota announced indefinite suspension on opening their Missippi (prius) plant. It was due to start production in 2010 and is 90 % complete.