The selection of Rick Warren, whose Saddleback Church in California was the site of a candidate forum with Barack Obama and John McCain in August, is an early taste of the Democrats’ post-election effort to reach evangelical Americans.
White evangelicals supported McCain over Obama by a huge margin, 73 percent to 26 percent, but that was a 4-percentage-point improvement over John Kerry’s showing with that group four years earlier.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies also announced that Joseph Lowery, who founded the Southern Christian Leadership Conference with Martin Luther King Jr., will deliver the benediction.
Warren and Lowery make for interesting bookends to Obama’s inauguration: a reminder of liberals’ faith-based past and a promise for what they hope can be a faith-based future.
- Dan Gilgoff, usnews.com
Obama is, for the time being, without a pastor of his own, so we knew he’d have to turn to someone else to deliver the inauguration invocation. Unfortunately, Obama chose Warren.
This is not too big a surprise, but it is disappointing. Obama and Warren have been friends for some time, and Obama accepted an invitation to appear at Warren’s presidential forum over the summer.
So why is it disappointing? Because, though Warren is certainly more tolerant of discussion than activist leaders such as James Dobson and Pat Robertson, his beliefs run counter to Obama’s on most of the major social issues of the day. Warren is opposed, on religious grounds, to abortion rights, gay rights, stem-cell research and euthanasia. In 2004, he described these issues as “non-negotiable” and “not even debatable.”
- Steve Benen, WashingtonMonthly.com
280 Comments
Here we go again . . . . . . .
Ain’t it the truth, “JMWalker” –
Not that the subject isn’t worthy of discussion.
But a new thread after, what? A thousand posts on the previous Warren thread?
We’ll settle the issue this time, I’m sure.
Am I the only liberal who likes this idea? Fundies will hate Warren for siding with Obama, liberals will still hate Warren. Only those who worship power will still remain close with Warren (yes, fundies do worship power but they can find some other fundy to worship like Dobson). Meanwhile, another case can be made for how religion is divisive and religion mixing with politics doubly so.
So in the end Warren is weakened. But seeing that it’s just five minutes of blabbering it’s no big deal.
Now I may just want to see the entire event in the hopes that a hundred thousand people will boo Warren as the stuffed peacock eschews his business ecumenicals.
#
JMWalker
Posted December 23, 2008 at 5:40 am | Permalink
Here we go again . . . . . . .
Let’s see, you’ll never get rid of an invocation.
So the fact that the extreme right (those that would deny anyone not exactly basic but pretty standard human rights in this country) and the extreme left (the bfh’ers I mentioned in the other thread that would hate a man like Warren for one view) are both pissed?
Based on Obama’s entire platform of Hope Change and Unity, the pick is perfect.
This is the ‘do over’ where everybody learns and expresses empathy, compassion, teamwork, understanding and the importance of dignity for all humans. Not only that we all control our personal boundaries and acknowledge that putting another down has never elevated anyone.
Just in time for the holiday that helps most of us think about goodness and peace on earth!
Cool!
Maggotpunk
Posted December 23, 2008 at 6:37 am | Permalink
Am I the only liberal who likes this idea?
__________________________________________________
No, you’re not. History will tell what the results of the Warren invocation are, but I like the idea that Obama is trying to reach out. Maybe “Change We Can Believe In” includes ending the gridlock that plagues our capitol.
Obama has to be the president for all Americans, not just those on the Left. There are too many nation-threatening issues facing our country to get bogged down on one social issue.
Here we go again.
Let the usual rabid screeching begin…
I could give a rats ass who does what during the Jan 20 ceremony. The important thing is to get the Chump-in-Charge down the road and start repairing the damage he and his bank of clowns have done to our country, and our county’s good name . That’s important!
gster,
Do you have any extra rat’s asses? I could give one of those!
I see we have more fine examples of the “open-minded” and “tolerant” ideology from the left here. Quick question for you libs, how exactly are you “open-minded” and “tolerant” when you are only such towards those with same or similar viewpoints?
I’m confuzzled…
Perhaps Maggotpunk can get back with me on this Q when he returns from firing up the propane heater in his single wide. Am I the only one in here who’s seen he and his clans website? They certainly push the frontier of white trash to a new level. Check it out sometime… google is your friend.
I really don’t know.
It certainly presents Warren a personal dilemma.
Does he use this national stage to rant against the targets of twice-born bigotry? Or has he been given a national stage which might help him expand his “ministry.”
But part of putting him on this national stage will force him to face the music. This inauguration is essentially gonna be Obama-Palooza. Will Rick Warren kick off things by shitting on him?
Good luck with that strategy.
Will Warren have a come-to-Jesus moment and renounce some of the hate-based attitudes of the twice-born? Earning their contempt in the process.
If Warren really believes the twice-born rhetoric he’s exploited to achieve mega-church status, and “invokes” prayer asking God bring down Hell and damnation for those who commit “abominations” on the level of eating a ham sandwich, a cheeseburger, or a shrimp cocktail.
I like how red state pops on to assault liberals….
Hey Kettle!
…because it’s always good to have a divisive, Purpose Driven Bigot on the agenda when you profess to be a uniter not a divider….
“Will Warren have a come-to-Jesus moment and renounce some of the hate-based attitudes of the twice-born?:
When pigs fly.
There was, ya know, NO OTHER PERSON who could have done this and brought people together.
I wonder if obama had invited Rev. Sharpton or Rev. Wright or Rev. Jackson to do this if the wingnuts here would have been so tolerant….
But hey, it’s ok to have a nazi on the front end if you have a rabbi on the backend.
And they did invite the gay marching band.
big eye roll…
Off to a good start uniting the country.
Any criticism of st. obama = “usual rabid screeching”
good chrisitan bigotry = rational discussion
Still waiting on an apology from one of the posters here…
Perhaps I am wrong but my definition of a Uniter is one who brings all sides together despite different views to reach a common goal.
How’s that working for obama?
Seems like with this Purpose Driven Divider pick, obama has pushed a hell of a lot of folks FURTHER apart.
Nice work.
And I see st. obama, like shurb, is unwilling or unable to admit when he makes a mistake. Cant change his mind now, no matter HOW much division this pick creates, instead of heals.
“lindainks55
Posted December 23, 2008 at 8:44 am | Permalink
gster,
Do you have any extra rat’s asses? I could give one of those!”
No problemo- how about a two-fer and you choose the color and style?
Evidently not too well. But if I’m in Obama’s shoes I am realizing which side can not be worked with and which is irrational right now, which cares about the country and which cares more about it’s own agenda.
Were you thinking Hope Change and Unity were all empty words or just didn’t listen close enough to understand his definition?
I’ll add the I am impressed right now on this that he does seem to want to give everyone a seat at the table or at the very least the opportunity to be heard.
Not quite sure why some are throwing down their spoons and stomping off.
If you’re going to have an invocation, and will have a religous leader give it, then that person, of whatever faith, will have a position. All the mainstream faiths have positions that alienate some people.
Perhaps there should be a church of “there is no wrong, there is no sin, go out and have a good time, you will go to heaven anyway because God loves you!”
Now wouldn’t that be popular?
I expect Warren will give a generic invocation. It’s not his place to address any specific agenda. I’m content to wait and see what he has to say.
__________________________________________________
“But if I’m in Obama’s shoes I am realizing which side can not be worked with and which is irrational right now, which cares about the country and which cares more about it’s own agenda.”
__________________________________________________
Amen on that.
ksfarmgrrl…
I am sorry.
“And I see st. obama, like shurb, is unwilling or unable to admit when he makes a mistake.”
Looks like that holds for posters here, too.
So.. the wingnuts protesting warren are ok in your book? Monkeyhawk has posted how many right wingers are upset that warren is giving his approval to obama as a way of saying that people are mad on both sides?
Those folks on the right who are mad are ok and can be, but folks on the left who are mad cant be worked with?
heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Hypocrisy, thy name is…
I dont hear anyone, right or left, complaining about Lowry.
HE couldnt have given the invocation?
There are plenty of non-controversial ministers.
But obama chose one of the most high profile dividers he could find.
Uniter indeed.
Looks like the only folks who approve are the usual mushy middle.
Sounds like it’s time for a toga-party ala “Animal House” to clear the air.??
Dave, what are you sorry about? I havent seen you post any bigotry here?
“Not quite sure why some are throwing down their spoons and stomping off.”
Of course not.
You’re the one who said Harvey Milk was just caught in the crossfire and not really a target for Dan White.
I do have a problem with Christians that have issue with Warren reaching out to Obama. Hell Yes an extreme problem.
Warren is my representative as I see it at Obama’s table.
Nothing hypocritical about that.
Ever hear the phrase you catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar?
I think it is the goatee. It gives him a smug, sneering aspect, not unlike Dubya.
As Maggot says, it does put Warren on the spot and pulls whatever power he may or may not have askew. Besides, whatever he says, and I suspect he is smart enough to pretty much hew to the middle, somebody will rant and rave about it.
Maybe a smart move politically by Obama; maybe not. I guess we’ll see.
Dennis
This issue has been beat to death, buried, dug up and beaten again.
And it is significant only for it’s symbolism. Changes NOTHING either way. A waste of time and emotion. I say let it R.I.P.
It’s year end Outlander. Kansas.com needs the hits for sales in 2009. LOL
#
Mr_Kia
Posted December 23, 2008 at 9:51 am | Permalink
It’s year end Outlander. Kansas.com needs the hits for sales in 2009. LOL
__________________________________________________
Kia, the editors are just going with what works. The last Warren thread got over 950 posts.
The editors have a real problem coming up with interesting topics. Too bad they’re playing one that’s so toxic.
“Obama and Warren have been friends for some time,”
Reason enough.
The Rev. Rick Warren will be the featured speaker at the Martin Luther King Jr. Commemorative Service in Atlanta the day before he gives the invocation at President-elect Barack Obama’s inauguration.
The 10 a.m. service at Ebenezer Baptist Church on Jan. 19 is the highlight of nearly more than a week of events to fete Atlanta’s famous son.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/12/23/rick_warren_king_day.html
Seems like Warren appeals to a lot of different people. Since Ebenezer Baptist Church is predominantly black, they must be bigots, too.
(sarcasm off)
We could all ignore their suggested topic — we’ve done it many times in the past!
How about we share “Christmas letters?” Ya know, the missives where we brag about all that’s happened over the past year.
I’ll go first!
My daughters had no more babies. They do breed well in captivity so we were thankful for a baby-free year.
My son only went to jail once and was only there a couple of days.
I bought brand new underwear to fit my much-expanded ‘frame.’ Naps (some people call these sweats but I certainly never sweated in them!) continue as my wardrobe of choice
Hubby didn’t grow any new hair and remains poster child for the bald.
I never did gain much appreciation for those braggadocio letters…
“Warren is my representative as I see it at Obama’s table.”
Given the nature of your posts here, that is exactly the point.
And many comments I stand by, some in extreme anger I am not proud of and in some instances some facts may have been incorrect but don’t change the premise.
Bottom line is you are walking away instead of trying to be part of a solution while mine has sat down.
“Since Ebenezer Baptist Church is predominantly black, they must be bigots, too.”
In fact, on the subject of gays, they are.
While Corretta Scott King was a proud advocate for equality for gays, one of her daughters has led marches against equality for gays.
Check out Ebanezer’s position on equality for gays.
Yeah. They are bigots on that subject. Just like the black ministers who testified in the legislature to put civil rights on the ballot. Just like the blacks who voted overwhelmingly on PropHate to make gays second class citizens.
Bigotry knows no color barrier.
From Wiki
“In 2004, Bernice King participated in a march against same-sex marriage in Atlanta. This action was in contrast to the advocacy of her mother, Coretta Scott King and her older sister Yolanda Denise King, both long-time outspoken supporters of gay rights.
snip
King is attributed with influencing her siblings to hold their mother’s funeral at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Georgia, instead of Coretta’s church home, Ebenezer Baptist Church.
The decision to hold Coretta Scott King’s funeral at a conservative congregation active in anti-gay work led to the protest of many civil rights activists, including Julian Bond who did not attend in protest to the decision against Coretta’s wishes.
snip
Bernice King is unmarried and does not have any children.
snip
Bernice King and her brother Martin Luther King III are in the midst of suing their brother Dexter, who in turn is counter suing them over mismanagement of funds from the King Center.
Dexter King has articulated his distress at Bernice King’s conservative fundamentalist activity as departing from their father’s legacy.
Well… I for one dont clearly understand what NEED there is for an Invocation, OR a Benediction at the Swearing In Ceremony for the President of the United States.
To me, it should begin with the National Anthem… perhaps followed by a reading of the Declaration of Independence, or the Preamble to the Constitution; and then closed by perhaps a reading of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…
Ya know, things that are NATIONAL, rather than religious…. especially since our Constitution is quite clear about the place of religion in our government procedures…
And perhaps, to avoid any confusion, the “readers” should be the Speaker of the House, and Senate Majority Leader, standing next to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
Just another thought to toss into the discussion….
“Bottom line is you are walking away instead of trying to be part of a solution while mine has sat down.”
Me and mine are not at the table. Because we were not invited. Kinda hard to get up and leave when you were never there.
And personally, I’ve NEVER been an obama supporter. I have defended him against these wacky “he’s a muslim, he’s not eligible” claims.
But since he’s so clearly in bed now with the wingnuts, you can bet your sweeet bippy I’ll let those comments slide from now on.
And I guess you are ignoring the widespread displeasure over warren, and the condemnation of warren from the right because he accepted obama’s invite?
Figures. Pick and chose, pick and chose.
It is hardly only MY side that’s unhappy with their respective bigots.
And for those of you who think pissing off both sides is a good thing…
Driving a car from ditch to ditch is not exactly rolling down the middle. Careening from one ditch to the other does not suggest competence or safety or a good command of the car.
Looks like that is what obama is doing. Just swinging from ditch to ditch.
Like I said, wake me when he actually fulfills his promises on DOMA and DADT.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I don’t see reaching out to the enemy…
while their boot is so heavy on my throat.
Is the Saddleback church located on Saddleback Mountain?
Dave, what are you sorry about? I havent seen you post any bigotry here?
ksfarmgrrl,
I’m sorry there is so much misunderstanding and fear in the world.
How many shoes will get thrown at the invocation?
Well supporters of Warren on the Evangelical side being willing to reach out despite dissenting views of the next President are rational people in my opinion.
I have yet to see any on the other.
It took courage on Obama’s part to invite Warren, who does not agree on every issue with him. BHO promised to reach across the table and he is keeping his word.
“And personally, I’ve NEVER been an obama supporter. I have defended him against these wacky “he’s a muslim, he’s not eligible” claims.
But since he’s so clearly in bed now with the wingnuts, you can bet your sweeet bippy I’ll let those comments slide from now on. ”
Oh, copy THAT!
Now I KNOW that he inherits one helluva mess. But I will NOT let him use it as an excuse that the cons built into the mess.
“We wish something could be done, but we just can’t afford it right now.”
MAKE a way to afford it. The wealthiest have made out like robber barons for 25 years. Time for THEM to know a little hurt.
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink
Well… I for one dont clearly understand what NEED there is for an Invocation, OR a Benediction at the Swearing In Ceremony for the President of the United States.
HOLY SHIT (pun intended)
Chas nailed it. Why aren’t the libs up in arms over ANY religious activities at the ceremony. Thought y’all wanted God out of government.
I just hope the pig doesn’t oink for more than 30 seconds.
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink
To me, it should begin with the National Anthem… perhaps followed by a reading of the Declaration of Independence, or the Preamble to the Constitution; and then closed by perhaps a reading of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address…
Ya know, things that are NATIONAL, rather than religious…. especially since our Constitution is quite clear about the place of religion in our government procedures
————————————————–
Just wondering how you feel all the references to God (God, Creator…) should be handled in the readings of those National documents?
Yea, Sol, we DO want God out of government, just like our beloved Constitution calls for!!
THAT is my point…
Chas why don’t you share the part of your beloved constitution that say take God out of government.
Cheap shot by the Eagle to garner hits.
Thing is?
Only the choir is gonna hear Warren.
I’ve no interest whatsoever in what he has to say. I can’t be there to turn my back on him. But I can hit mute during the inauguration.
Good choice BJ. That is an adult way to handle the situation.
In God We Trust is the official national motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
LEARN from it okie.
For whatever reason I don’t understand, Obama continues to think you people can be worked with.
Myself, I’ve learned from you and yours.
No negotiation. No diplomacy. No peace in our time.
BJ I have made every effort to work with Obama and will continue to do so even though we differ on many key items. He is our prez and I have seen how distructive the far lefts hatred of Bush has been for our country.
Social issues such as this one and abortion rights have to take a back seat to the issues a prez can actually affect.
We will see whether or Obama works to gain your vote or mine.
Whats the big deal about this? Let Rick speak. Close your ears if you don’t want to hear it, turn it up if you do. Heck, who knows, something he says might change some peoples hearts on here! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
KIA —
There are NO references to God/Creator in the Preamble to the Constitution… ONE reference to a rather generic “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence (an historical document that proposes no specific religious affiliation); and one reference to God in the Gettysburg Address (see note on Declaration –as Lincoln wasnt a particularly religious man).
ALSO, the use of “under God” in the Gettysburg Address is not IN the first two early copies… only in the latter 3 copies, included the “Bliss Version” which is now the accepted text(textus receptus) of the Address.
I do not see a problem with Historical Documents being recited at a NATIONAL EVENT of historical importance. Also, none of the documents I listed are in the form of any sort of a prayer, and not addressed to any specific “deity”. Rather they are the sort of reference that most any one can “live with” and not create any sort of spectacle such as we are seeing with the inclusion of Rick Warren, or any other “minister” of any Church.
BTW, Kia, had I been asked to offer either Invocation, or Benediction at this event, I would have felt deeply honored, but would have felt a need to decline the invitation.
Thank you for addressing that Chas.
I don’t disagree with you on most points.
However my opinion is that the loudest against Warren are a God-less group that would be offended by any reference to a Creator or a God regardless of it not being to a specific deity.
Dgirl23
Posted December 23, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink
Whats the big deal about this? Let Rick speak.
__________________________________________________
Oh, we can’t have that! Some have already passed judgment and we just can’t take the chance that an invocation may be just that – an invocation and nothing more or less. Better to run around in circles with our hair on fire.
okobserver
Posted December 23, 2008 at 10:58 am | Permalink
Chas why don’t you share the part of your beloved constitution that say take God out of government.
==========================================
FIRST — Engage your brain….
SECOND — Show us all where the word GOD appears anywhere in the Constitution….
Need I say more??? Geez, wingnuts….
Kia writes:
“However my opinion is that the loudest against Warren are a God-less group that would be offended by any reference to a Creator or a God regardless of it not being to a specific deity.”
SOME of those opposed to the Warren choice are included in the “evangelical” camp as well… I know many who make up what you call the “godless” camp who have no problems at all in recitations of historic documents… You might try actually talking to some of them, before pronouncing your own judgments on them…
They are wrong as well (Evangelicals against Warren’s relationship with Obama).
However who I am referring to are those that continually refer to the Holy Bible as a Fairy Tale.
If the Bible is a Fairy Tale they must also hold the same opinion of the Torah, the Qu’ran, the Dhammapada and the Veda.
Because gee if it was just the bible they felt that way about it would be Bigotry wouldn’t it?
But Kia… Because of our glorious Constitution, those folks are FREE to call the Bible a “fairy tale”, as you put it… And THAT is the significance of not imposing religious content into what is CLEARLY a Civil Ceremony… unless you choose to side with those who believe the Capitol Building is some sort of “stealth” Temple….
This is Obamas inaugrauration. He has the right to decide the content of that ceremony. No left wing nut has the right to dictate to the prez how to fashion this ceremony. Look at history. This has always been the case.
Photo captures image of an ‘angel’ in hospital hallway
In dark time, mom of Mint Hill teen sees light of hope
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/431132.html
__________________________________________________
Offered without comment
More info on the “stealth” Temple >>>>
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2008/12/07.html
Ya cant make this stuff up!! LOL
I’m not arguing anyones right to believe what they wish.
What I’m trying to say is if you are offended by the Bible in the public square why not all reference to religion including the money in your pocket?
Billy Graham (a Christian minister) has been asked to fulfill this obligation for many years. He is no longer able to fulfill that function and even if he were Obama would not be expected to ask him just because that is how it has always been done. This is just a simple request for a prayer which Obama wants at HIS ceremony.
Who cares? It’s fluff, it’s a non-issue. It’s a distraction from any real issues.
okobserver
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink
This is Obamas inaugrauration. He has the right to decide the content of that ceremony. No left wing nut has the right to dictate to the prez how to fashion this ceremony. Look at history. This has always been the case.
==========================================
Yes, let’s look at history… You will find that there is a Congressional Committee on Inaugurations that makes the decisions… I do not know the extent of any input from the “President-elect” in that process… Some say a great amount of input… others say only a small amount of input…
And, since this is common knowledge, please dont ask for a link….
“He has the right to decide the content of that ceremony.”
And voters have the right to interpret his choices. You see this as a good one.
But you did not vote for Obama. Those who did have the right to expect that he will represent the people who voted for him first and give somewhat less consideration to those who did not vote for him.
Kia, I am becoming convinced that you are incapable of rational discussion on any subject with which you do not agree…. I could be wrong…. but my hunch is that I’m right on target…. :-)
Kia, a quick question:
If you’re truly willing to accept equal rights of marriage under the name “civil unions,” why do you care what it’s called? It makes exactly zero difference, other than symbolically. Why should it matter?
Is it really just an 8-letter word, or do something else would somehow result? How about calling it the legally correct term “civil marriage”?
Chas did you see the post about Billy Graham. Look at history and see how many years he fullfilled this role. This isn’t new. The fringe left have just made it an issue.
I agree that it is a non-issue and should be dropped.
Back to your regularly scheduled attacks from the left when called out on the hypocrisy of their beliefs towards Religion and Christianity…..
But you did not vote for Obama. Those who did have the right to expect that he will represent the people who voted for him first and give somewhat less consideration to those who did not vote for him.
————-
Do you really think that BlueJay? How does Santabama know?
The Rev. Billy Graham has prayed with and given spiritual counsel to presidents going back to Dwight D. Eisenhower. A presidential Inaugural tradition began for Rev. Billy Graham when he gave the Invocation at President Nixon’s Inauguration in1969. Since then Graham has given the prayer or sermon for every President’s Inauguration until 2001, when his son, the Rev. Franklin Graham, filled in because of his fathers health. On January 21st 2005, the Reverend Billy Graham gave the opening prayer at National City “Christian Church for President George W. Bush’s second Inauguration. Graham is 90 years old, and his son Franklin has announced that his fathers pastoral work with presidents has now come to an end. With President-elect Obama’s Inauguration quickly approaching, it would only be normal to expect that Franklin Graham would be giving the Invocation prayer, as he did in 2001, in light of his father’s health. But…”
Breaking news from California!!
Typo In Proposition 8 Defines Marriage As Between ‘One Man And One Wolfman’
SACRAMENTO, CA—Activists on both sides of the gay marriage debate were shocked this November, when a typographical error in California’s Proposition 8 changed the state constitution to restrict marriage to a union between “one man and one wolfman,” instantly nullifying every marriage except those comprised of an adult male and his lycanthrope partner. “The people of California made their voices heard today, and reaffirmed our age-old belief that the only union sanctioned in God’s eyes is the union between a man and another man possessed by an ungodly lupine curse,” state Sen. Tim McClintock said at a hastily organized rally celebrating passage of the new law. But opponents, including Bakersfield resident Patricia Millard—who is now legally banned from marrying her boyfriend, a human, non-wolfman male—claim it infringes on their civil liberties. “I love James just as much as a wolfman loves his husband,” Millard said. “We deserve the same rights as any horrifying mythical abomination.” On the heels of the historic typo, voters in Utah passed a similar referendum a week later, defining marriage as between one man and 23 wolfmen.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/typo_in_proposition_8
Elections are SUPPOSED to mean something.
Obama is of course, free to ignore that.
This was his first, important decision as to left vs. right. He botched it.
It is the legitimacy issue Mr. Kia. That is the reason that civil unions are not enough. The way I read that is they do not want there to be any inference that their choice makes them in any way less “normal” than straights.
It is not an equal rights issue. It is more of a cultural issue.
Liberals, incrementally undermining the culture since who knows when.
In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1]
Yes, replacing “E Pluribus Unum,” (”out of many, one’). Which was exactly the idea.
I heard Franklin Graham has stated that he will not continue the tradition of his father to be the president’s preacher. I don’t know if Franklin was even asked to continue the tradition or if Franklin does not want to do it for other reasons.
Billy Graham has been the president’s preacher for many, many years and to both Republicans and Democrats. But one thing about Billy Graham is that his own personal political feelings were never intertwined with the president in office at the time.
In my opinion, that is the difference between Evangelical Christians in Billy Graham’s era and the current Evangelical Christian preachers today.
Our constitution guarantees the right of freedom of religion and that means every religion – not just Evangelical Christian.
Why is it that only Evangelical Christians seem to be the only group that is always spouting about the issue of separation of church and state? I don’t hear any other religious groups whining about this issue.
People with no sense of irony:
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/12/23/rick_warren_king_day.html
Ugh.
The exhortation against homosexuality in the Bible predates Christianity by about 2,000 years (give or take) and was in fact part of Jewish law. Why not go after the Jews?
Oh yeah, that would be considered bigotry.
Why is it that only Evangelical Christians seem to be the only group that is always spouting about the issue of separation of church and state? I don’t hear any other religious groups whining about this issue.
——————-
Mom I guess I’m not sure what you mean by this paragraph.
mom — that would be because the evangelical christians are the ones who dont believe in separation of church and state…
Oh yeah, that would be considered bigotry.
Wrong. Jewish leaders, for the most part, have not participated in the anti–gay movement, the Constitutional amendments.
But criticizing them would be fair game if they did.
And criticizing Biblical interpretations is clearly not bigotry, unless one feels that everyone is compelled to agree with it, or else.
This Christmas, I am not grateful for the selection of Warren on an important historical date.
I am grateful for technology. My daughter sent my son a photo message of the shoes she was proposing to buy for him. On my phone. Heck, I did not even know it could do that!
What a wonderful World!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A2Jt4WOxN8
Check out the above video for a beautiful song and images.
I am grateful for Israel and regret his stay with us was so short…
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:32 pm | Permalink
mom — that would be because the evangelical christians are the ones who dont believe in separation of church and state…
———————–
Chas for a statement this broad you would of course have some substantiation. I consider myself a evangelical Christian. I don’t want my faith slathered across government. I don’t want it in the schools. I do however want the same right for all people. If Obama as a Christian prez wants to select Warren then I think this is his right. Some may be upset about Lowrey giving the benediction because of the very public way he addressed Bush at the last ceremony he spoke at.
People have different belief systems and right now the right are showing they are the more tolerant.
Rage
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:35 pm | Permalink
Oh yeah, that would be considered bigotry.
Wrong. Jewish leaders, for the most part, have not participated in the anti–gay movement, the Constitutional amendments.
—————————————————-
Well all you are doing is shooting the messenger.
Good grief, Okie, why dont you stop flaming?? Anybody with an ounce of brains, and has ears to hear, knows full well that the majority of evangelical christians dont believe in separation of church and state!!
And, oh, since Bush isnt involved in this Inauguration, what difference does it make if Lowery is a part of it?? Is Lowery not free to criticize his President??? the same as ANY citizen???
I got an idea… instead of flaming at me, why dont you call your own “minister” and ask him about church/state separation??
Well all you are doing is shooting the messenger.
A messenger, by definition, delivers a message. It’s possible to do that without giving the message the force of law.
XXX- thanks for that article on the angel. What a great picture. It gave me goosebumps! What an awesome God we serve!
If Gay Marriage becomes the rule of law, preaching against it can be defined as Hate Speech.
Like it or not there is precedence in law suits won against what is today considered hate speech.
If Gay Marriage becomes the rule of law, preaching against it can be defined as Hate Speech.
That is absolutely insane.
And I noticed you didn’t answer my question. Oh well.
‘Bama should have had a gay scientist do it.
How is that insane?
The view right now is already called bigotry and hate is it not?
What difference does it make if it is legal or not?
Rage — Agreed… Churches do not have to accept gay marriage in their pulpits, anymore than many do not allow divorced people to either join their churches, or to receive Sacraments of the Church…
TOTAL Red Herring, there, Kia!! Par for your course….
Actually Rage that answered it as well.
Are you saying that if Gays are allowed to marry they are all of a sudden going to be OK with preaching against their unions?
I think you are misguided if that’s the case.
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
Rage — Agreed… Churches do not have to accept gay marriage in their pulpits, anymore than many do not allow divorced people to either join their churches, or to receive Sacraments of the Church…
TOTAL Red Herring, there, Kia!! Par for your course….
————————————————–
So Gays have not called preaching against their sexuality bigotry and hate?
And lawsuits have not been won against such?
I don’t have the time to pull the 1,000’s of refrences to that.
Rage — You are absolutely right about Jewish leaders and the anti-gay “movement” as such…
As to anti-gay marriage, the Orthodox and Hassidic Jewish community would oppose gay marriage for their people based on Kosher laws… I repeat for THEIR people….
#
Dgirl23
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:48 pm | Permalink
XXX- thanks for that article on the angel. What a great picture. It gave me goosebumps! What an awesome God we serve!
_________________________________________________
Yeah, same here. Of course a picture of a ray of light is open to interpretation, but I know what I see there. A ray of hope.
BTW, I have NO problem with churches who do not allow Gay members.. in THEIR churches… and oppose Gay Marriage for THEIR people…
I do object when they keep attempting to make their religious views a part of the Law of the Land…
Kia stupidly states: (and I am being nice)
“I don’t have the time to pull the 1,000’s of refrences to that.”
You’re right… you dont have time… because there are NO lawsuits against anybody for preaching AGAINST the gay movement, or gay rights, in THEIR CHURCHES…. No matter how wrong I might think they are, that IS their Constitutional Right…. First Amendment….
Not the Gay Movement grammatically challenged one.
Lawsuits won against bigotry and hate speech.
Which it becomes once legal.
Kia — Has Pat Robertson, or James Dobson been sued for hate language against gays?? Or how about Jimmy Swaggert?? Or any of those other big name anti-gay preachers??? You are walking on such thin ice with your allegation, that if it was any thinner, you would be sinking, since we all know you cant walk on water…. LOL
How is that insane?
The view right now is already called bigotry and hate is it not?
What difference does it make if it is legal or not?
One can always construct a ridiculous theoretical scenario that supports their position.
Though I spent years as civil libertarian, I’m not going to research the law for you. I’ll just note the the controversial “hate speech” codes that have popped up in recent years were invariably aimed at intimidating language aimed at specific groups of individuals.
Abstract advocacy, even if suggestive of violence, is protected by the First Amendment. See Terminello (sp?) v. Chicago. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action.
See also R.A.V. vs. Minnesota(?).
And free exericse of religion specifically protects the rights of preachers to say whatever they want.
Now, that’s all off the top of my head (though I pasted the Brandenburg part from Wiki).
What do you got?
Ahhhh… so your allegation has nothing to do with Preaching in Church Pulpits… just as I said…. And you forget, you would need to repeal the FIRST AMENDMENT for your Red Herring to have a chance….
You are the one promoting fear of what will never happen!!! Hey, it’s simple, if you dont want to promote a gay life-style, fine… keep it in your Church house, and out of the Court house….
P.S. I should also point out that if what you’re saying is true, then it applies now.
Whether or not gays get married clearly has zero relevance.
P.P.S. And it’s apparent that you not will answer my question upthread. Curious.
P*4.S. By the way, your “reasoning” would equally apply to across-the-board civil unions, obviously.
I think you are misguided if you don’t think it can happen.
As you say the google is your friend. Google hate speech law suits. And Google law suits won against hate speech.
Okie states:
“On January 21st 2005, the Reverend Billy Graham gave the opening prayer at National City “Christian Church for President George W. Bush’s second Inauguration.”
Ummmmm — Inaugurations of Presidents take place at the Capitol Building in D.C. — NOT in D. C. churches…. You might want to check that again… LOL
Translation: I’ve got my red herring and sticking to it.
Bye, Kia.
Call it what you want.
I’ll continue to stand in the gap.
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:09 pm | Permalink
I am becoming convinced that you are incapable of rational discussion on any subject with which you do not agree…
Guffaws
Slaps knees…
points and laughs…
KIA — Open your mind…. How many States would it take to repeal the First Amendment, in order to make your fear mongering become a reality???
BAD Red Herring, and yet you still hold on to it!!
“…had I been asked to offer either Invocation, or Benediction at this event, I would have felt deeply honored, but would have felt a need to decline the invitation.” — Chas
——
You’re a great man and an honorable American, Chas! That sentence said so much about your respect for the Constitution of the United States of America. I already knew your devotion to God. ;-)
We are moving towards taking on more and more of a European standard of social justice are we not?
Why don’t you take a look at countries around the world that have Freedom of Speech yet laws against “hate” or speech that would offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people.
Yes Kia… and there should be laws against hate speech… Please note the definitions of hate speech…. NONE of them would include words spoken by ministers in churches!!
PLEASE wake up and smell the coffee!!
OK, Kia — I can think of one possible hypothetical situation that could happen in some fantasy land church somewhere….
IF some preacher got his/her congregation so steamed up against gays, or some other group… AND, said preacher would issue a loaded gun at the rear of the building…. AND if said preacher told his attendees to go forth from the Church house, and find members of the groups being preached against, and KILL those individuals…
THEN, said preacher could most likely be arrested and charged… NOT for a violation of speech…. but for inciting people to murder and/or violence against other people…
At that point, the Freedom of Speech would not apply… as it would be a violation of other existing laws….
I believe you can find such citations in cases decided by SCOTUS… remember, Google is your friend….
And BTW, Kia, the same thing would happen if it was a Liberal preacher, inciting murder or violence in his/her pulpit against members of right wing conservative religious right wing groups…. AND the same charges would apply….
Just wanted to cover both sides, before you start your normal attacks….
Hate speech in most countries that I believe the left would like us to be more like define hate speech quite differently that just the insighting of violence or riots.
One brick at a time.
lindainks55
Posted December 23, 2008 at 1:50 pm | Permalink
__________________________________________
Thanks Linda!! I appreciate that!!
That’s odd, Kia, I didnt even mention riots…
LOL!!!
Riots. Violence.
I find most of you love in mince words when cornered.
The only thing this pick proves, is that there is no difference in the two party’s at the top (they are those that matter, not you nor myself).
Sorry.
“…but for inciting people to murder and/or violence against other people… ”
What does Martin Luther King have to do with this?
“Because, though Warren is certainly more tolerant of discussion than activist leaders…”
“In 2004, he described these issues as “non-negotiable” and “not even debatable.””
So which is it? Is Warren more tolerant of discussion or not. Steve Benen is an idiot.
an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable ?? . . . OH !! the ATMOSPHERE !!!
fleettwood
Posted December 23, 2008 at 2:31 pm | Permalink
“…but for inciting people to murder and/or violence against other people… ”
What does Martin Luther King have to do with this?
__________________________________________
Why must you be a friggin RACIST just two days before Christmas Eve??? You know damned well, you sick freak, MLK espoused NON-violence!!! Pull your racist head out of your butt, or else take your illness elsewhere… I for one, am sick and tired of the unabashed RACISM I see daily on this Blog!! Ine the name of America, STOP IT!!
LOUD NOISES!
Chas,
Do please explain how referencing a potential, or not potential at all, link between MLK and violence towards his opposition is racist.
I’m going to let you in on an epiphany here… grab some paper and a pen.
You can disagree with someone’s take on a race-based issue without baselessly calling them a racist.
Umkay? Glad we got that out of the way. It’s a toughie to comprehend, I know.
A racist under every teacup.
RED_STATE- Very well put! I think people tend to forget that!
Ummmm Red-State??? I see you love supporting bigotry…. MLK was not mentioned even ONCE in my posts here…. Fleettwood brought it in out of thin air!!! AND tied MLK to violence… which is an outright LIE… and a racist one at that….
Why dont all you white sheeted Rednecks go have your own private convention somewhere else besides here…. Umkay??? LOL
Photo of America’s salvation:
http://s.buzzfeed.com/barack-obama-shirtless.html?w=1
Personally, I think it’d been a hoot if he’d of invited Rev. Wright to give the invocation!
Phantom, perhaps… but would have been a mistake… I was thinking more along the lines of The Rev. John Thomas, General Minister and President of Obama’s denomination, the United Church of Christ. John Thomas can be reached via email at: thomasj@ucc.org. His Christmas Pastoral Letter can be read at: http://www.ucc.org.
So now I’m a racist, eh?
Some of you libs would just be entirely lost without the labels you cast on those with differing opinions, wouldn’t you?
Racist! Closed-minded! Intolerant! Bigot! …et cetera, ad nauseam.
Must be easier to label than debate, I guess.
“Why dont all you white sheeted Rednecks go have your own private convention somewhere else besides here…”
What does Robert Byrd have to do with this?
Yea, you are red state… if not, why would you jump to the defense of one so fast??
I dont have a clue, Fleet… he must be one of your buddies…. I am not one of his fans… even though he denounced the Klan years ago… which you intentionally left out… ID 10 T
“Yea, you are red state… if not, why would you jump to the defense of one so fast??”
That makes no sense. You jump to the defense of farmgirl. Does that make you a homo?
I am outta here for now…. dont want to get in a foul mood over the blog racists this close to Christmas…. Phewww!!! Yuck!!
“I am not one of his fans… even though he denounced the Klan years ago..”
So, if he embraced the Klan again, would you be a fan?
WRONG Fleetie…. I defend KFG’s right to exist in this nation as a FREE and EQUAL person… I dont HAVE to defend her sexual preference to do that!! ID 10 T
Go away Fleetie… You must be drinking to much again… no wait… you never make any sense…. Byrd was a Klansman once… he denounced the Klan…. I was NEVER a fan of his…. GOT IT?? I keep forgetting you cant read so good!! LOL
I’m defending nothing other than logical rationalization.
Feel free to have a differing opinion- nothing wrong with that- but please try use intellect as your argument crutch, rather than labels.
heheh. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hee hee hee heeeeee…..
Now he’s using ghost stories? WTF?
HEHEHEHEHEH. HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA
Jesus WEPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People see Elvis’ ghost at a gas station and they see jesus and the virgin mary on grilled cheese sandwiches and tortillas!!!!
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ghost stories and mystery rays of light.
ROFLAMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, THAT settles it.
Superstitions indeed!
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
I am outta here for now…. dont want to get in a foul mood over the blog racists this close to Christmas…. Phewww!!! Yuck!!
Thank you Chas. I dont need anyone’s approval. I just need the law to recognize my marriage.
And please, do link to all those lawsuits filed and WON for churches and their hate speeches.
There was a Rabbi who testified against the hate amendment in the kansas legislature.
Vs. Six christian ministers.
But oh yeah, our resident confederate flag wielding bigot says the Jews are the problem.
And I dont recall any of the Muslim clergy testifying for or against the hate amendment.
I think Muslims and Jews, while they dont all agree about homosexuality, know a thing or two about being on the sharp end of the religious bigotry stick. They know the damage that can be done to religion when secular law is based on someone ELSE’s religion.
Good grief.
The shark’s back hurts too bad to even call about these bastards jumping him….
“You jump to the defense of farmgirl. Does that make you a homo?”
No, that makes him a reasonable man of faith.
Something that’s in short supply around here….
but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1]
Just one more of the anti-communism unintelligent decisions made in the mid-50’s. Can we again thank the KoC for this one?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH!
rotflmaofaktd!!!!!!!11111one!!!111
LAWLZ…!1!
[just trying to help you out and all KFM]
Thanks for the help red state. I hope everyone had as big a laugh as I did about that post. I laughed until I had tears in my eyes.
O.M.G.
Like I said, people are just so unaware they dont even realize when they confirm what some of have been saying.
Religion is largely superstition.
As JR notes, “god” remains silent on the subject. It’s all made up by humans to explain things until science and knowledge catch up.
And even when science and knowledge expand and do explain the previously unexplainable, the wingnuts STILL rely on superstition.
Humans. The more I know about them the wiser my dog seems.
Very good editorial on the topic.
From the link:
In fact, conservatives who fault Mr. Warren for agreeing to pray at Mr. Obama’s swearing-in probably have more to worry about, given that he symbolizes a new generation of evangelical leaders who don’t demonize Democrats. Good to both of them for standing up to extreme elements in their bases.
Beneath the big tent Mr. Obama is raising, there will be groups of Americans who aren’t used to dealing with one another – but who now will have to learn. This is bad?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-rickwarren_23edi.State.Edition1.23b79a8.html
Heheheheheheheheh.
Where is tortilla jesus when we need him?
Haw. Haw. Haw.
Since you are back, know it all, how about a link to those lawsuits you believe in?
Or is it just another superstition?
Snake handlers anyone?
heheheh.
still chuckling….
All the law suits brought against Hate Speech?
Google them yourself. I gave the keywords.
But just to clarify my earlier question as well…you believe all religion and God to be a fairy tale is that correct? Or just Christianity?
Since Christmas is around the corner, and the reason we celebrate it is for the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ,I pray everyone on this blog finds peace within themselves and comes to know Jesus in a very personal way. Merry CHRISTmas!
…and peace with each other, amen.
Happy Yule to you, too, Dgirl.
PreD —
Light that Yule Log, and dance to the Crowning of the Year!!
So mote it be!!
And a Happy Chanukah (Day 2) as well, for those whom it may concern!!
Happy Kwaanzaa to those who celebrate it (December 26 to January 1).
And today is Festivus!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/festivus.htm
Anyone ready for the airing of grievances? LOL
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
Okie states:
“On January 21st 2005, the Reverend Billy Graham gave the opening prayer at National City “Christian Church for President George W. Bush’s second Inauguration.”
Ummmmm — Inaugurations of Presidents take place at the Capitol Building in D.C. — NOT in D. C. churches…. You might want to check that again… LOL
—————–
Chass you are as dumb as a rock and you just keep showing it. The quotes tell you this was taken from an article given to you for reference.
Get your head out. And you don’t need to be worried about being asked to pray at anything. You have to stand for something before anyone will see you as a valuable addition to any program.
Mr Kia I just did. Guess I was a little early with my grieviance. Chas just does that to me sometimes. I’m surprised that man can survive let alone counsel others as he tells us he does. Spooky.
“Since Christmas is around the corner, and the reason we celebrate it is for the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ,I pray everyone on this blog finds peace within themselves and comes to know Jesus in a very personal way.” — dgirl
But don’t do so without protection!
“Google them yourself. I gave the keywords.”
So that would be a “no” on any winning lawsuits as mentioned. I couldnt find any.
And yeah. I think all religion is hocuspocology.
But I dont care what you believe. Just keep it out of secular law.
OKIE…. You ignorant person >>>>
“On January 21st 2005, the Reverend Billy Graham gave the opening prayer at National City “Christian Church for President George W. Bush’s second Inauguration.”
It doesnt matter where you got this piece of fasehood…. Inaugurations STILL arent conducted at CHURCHES!!! Which is what I clearly pointed out upthread….
NOW who is it that isnt READING…. AGAIN???
And your little missive on Dr. Graham is just that… he was an evangelist…. never pastored a church in his life!! He was NEVER America’s Pastor… However a number of Presidents seem to have sought him out for individual (NOT GOVERNMENTAL) counsel and guidance….
Now, OKIE…. You got anything else to FLAME about, before you get shown to once again not have the foggiest idea what you are talking about???
Oh, yea, Merry Christmas!!
Then you aren’t too smart.
There’s a pretty big one. Against an organization that turns my stomach.
But that kind of the point of free speech isn’t it?
I’m glad to hear it is all religion however vs. only Christianity. Most are a lot more harsh than accept Christ and be saved when it comes to sin.
I’d bet Pope Benedict would approve of Warren delivering the invocation:
Pope Benedict criticizes homosexual behavior
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/22/europe/23pope.php
“VATICAN CITY: Pope Benedict said Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.
The Church “should also protect man from the destruction of himself. A sort of ecology of man is needed,” the pontiff said in a holiday address to the Curia, the Vatican’s central administration.
The Catholic Church teaches that while homosexuality is not sinful, homosexual acts are. It opposes gay marriage and, in October, a leading Vatican official called homosexuality “a deviation, an irregularity, a wound.”
The pope said humanity needed to “listen to the language of creation” to understand the intended roles of man and woman. He compared behavior beyond traditional heterosexual relations as “a destruction of God’s work.”
He also defended the Church’s right to “speak of human nature as man and woman, and ask that this order of creation be respected.”
May I be so bold as to say ‘Good for the Pope’!
okobserver
Posted December 23, 2008 at 12:13 pm | Permalink
_________________________________________
Okie, your “quotes” begin in the middle of a sentence, and seem to end with the word ‘But…”‘
ALSO — there is no link to any “Article” as you suggested above…. Even if there was, it does not negate the FACT that Presidential inaugurations do not take place in D. C. Churches…
So…. you got a link for your alleged “article” – or is that just more of your friggin flaming??
ID 10 T
“The Catholic Church… opposes gay marriage and, in October, a leading Vatican official called homosexuality “a deviation, an irregularity, a wound.””
__________________________________________
Ummmm someone should remind the Pope that being left-handed, or red haired is also a “deviation and an irregularity” — LOL
Bawks-a-lot has done it again!!! LOL
I have to go but before you do find the lawsuit in question and accuse me of supporting the defendants in the case keep in mind I said they turn my stomach (which is putting it nicely). Which is not support.
The entire idea of the First Ammendment is to protect dissenting views right to be heard.
So Mr. Kia, I guess you are just waaaaay smarter than I am. I obviously need to be schooled.
Go ahead. Tell us, give us the case name, post a link, the google page, anything to clue in us clueless folks on what you know that we dont.
Hee hee hee heeeeeeee….
The head of the Church of Pedophiles thinks homosexuality is bad?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAAH
Damn, this is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
A homosexual lifestyle is bad kfg, and in your case really crude in a vulgar, disgusting sort of way.
No offense intended….
So having pedophiles protected by the catholic church is a good thing? Pedophile priests have a good lifestyle?
Bigotbawks’ definition of bad, crude and vulgar lifestyle is anything he/she doesnt agree with.
And he’s like all cons who define bad lifestyles as belonging to anyone who gets more than they do.
I think somebody needs his/her “ashes hauled” as gster once said.
Chas
Posted December 23, 2008 at 6:25 pm | Permalink
“The Catholic Church… opposes gay marriage and, in October, a leading Vatican official called homosexuality “a deviation, an irregularity, a wound.””
__________________________________________
Ummmm someone should remind the Pope that being left-handed, or red haired is also a “deviation and an irregularity” — LOL
Bawks-a-lot has done it again!!! LOL
————————-
So Chass are you telling God that he should have given us the same color hair and skin and eyes and made us all right handed.
The pope simply stated his version of the facts. If you disagree that is your right.
As for giving you the link for what I posted. That was hours ago and I have been lots of places on the web since then. It is not at all unusual for a prez to have two inaugurations. A knowledgeable person whould know this.
And since there is no order of magnitude in sin, bigotbawks being a deliberate and unrepentant liar is promoting a good lifestyle? A good example for the kids?
heheheh. AHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.
Remind us again, which church condones deliberate and unrepentant lying?
Hey Chas, good evening. You do realize don’t you that you are a “deviation and an irregularity” as a faux preacher, who is frequently out of control of himself and swearing at people. You have obviously no interest in really helping or reaching out to serve people, but more to chastise according to your own will, and not the written word.
You should think about that, and maybe spend more time in Biblical study and preparation to serve rather than satisfying your own will and influence.
kfg, I took your weak minded friend to the cleaners, showing him to be the immature dunce he is and giving him something to think about.
You should thank me for trying to help a loser, just as I am doing for you.
That is not unrepentant lying.
Really? Deliberately saying you would do something, when you knew at the time you said it you would not, is NOT lying?
Heheheheheh.
Thus sayeth the gospel of bigotbawks.
It’s ok to lie as long as you are “schooling someone”.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHA
Speck. log. eye. you know the rest.
Funny, but bigotbawks uses EXACTLY the same words to describe me that tippy did.
Must just be a coincidence….
He sure has the judgement thing down, no?
He can judge Chas and his vocation, he can judge what is lying and what is not, and he can judge anyone who isnt him.
Himself? Not so much.
WElll how ’bout another “lesson” there bawksy?
THIS time, I’ll bring my son along so HE can learn how to back a bully down.
Hey people,
Can’t we make it through the swearing in before we start the swearing at?
He didn’t just lie, he bragged about it being ‘premeditated.’ He proved he lies and is untrustworthy, alongside that he enjoys being cruel.
Once again, grmie’s so full of crap her eyes are brown.
From Wiki
“The Inaugural Parade on Pennsylvania Avenue passes the Presidential reviewing stand in front of the White House.
Since 1901, all inaugural ceremonies at the United States Capitol have been organized by the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies.[2] The U.S. military have participated in Inauguration Day ceremonies since George Washington, because the president is commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Since the first inauguration of Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1953, that participation has been coordinated by the Armed Forces Inaugural Committee (now called the Joint Task Force-Armed Forces Inaugural Committee).
The oath of office is traditionally administered on the steps of the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C. The vice president-elect takes the oath of office at the same ceremony as the president-elect. This tradition began in 1937.
snip
At noon, the president-elect becomes president.”
There is only ONE official ceremony and it is held as noted above.
Unless Bigot Graham was doing stuff for preznits before 1937, you are just plain wrong grmie.
Unless, of course, you can prove otherwise, CHAS is correct!
Yeah Linda. He’s PROUD of his lies. And he seems to be the only one who thinks it wasnt a lie.
Self justification. The mother’s milk of bigotry.
“Doctrine for thee, but not for me!”
Is the ceremonial flush at 11:59 or noon? Guess we’d better wait until noon to be sure the idiot in charge is gone.
“You should thank me for trying to help a loser, just as I am doing for you.”
How very judgmental and christian of you.
bbbaaaaawwwwkkkkk bawk bawk bbbbaaaawwwwkkkk!
Hey bawks?
If THIS is losing?
I’m cool with it.
JR, bigotbawks is the only one who thinks he/she won anything.
You will always be a winner in my book:)
“It is not at all unusual for a prez to have two inaugurations. A knowledgeable person whould know this.”
I can find no record of any such thing.
http://www.wheaton.edu/bgc/archives/inaugural01.htm
———-
fermie if you and chass can read you will see more than one reference to a ’second inauguration’. You two are a sorry pair.
As for what Boxlock did to BJ. Good for him. You and Linda didn’t seem to care when Steven Davis and Blowhard pulled basically the same thing on Reg and then BJ came back and made fun of what he looked like the rest of the day.
Hypocrites.
———————-
mxyzptlk
Posted December 23, 2008 at 7:27 pm | Permalink
bbbaaaaawwwwkkkkk bawk bawk bbbbaaaawwwwkkkk!
—————-
Chas stop the idiocy and act like a grown up man.
germie is an idiot retardo
One day she’ll die and the world will be abetter place.
O. M. G.
Second is in reference to SECOND TERM, not second ceremony for one term.
Jesus WEPT!
Google Aricept germie. I think you need it.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh MAN. I didnt even think GRMIE was that dumb!
“she” continues to exceed my expectations!
Note, all such inauguration ceremonies have been held at the capital since 1937.
Graham didnt have his first church until 1943.
Busted grmie.
I think kia and grmie are giving fleetie competiton for the bdp title. And bigotbawks is far and away the bbl.
Blog’s biggest liar.
Well fermie I did make a mistake on the link I gave. I lost the one from which I posted the one chas took exception with.
My mistake. My admission.
Hehehehe.
At grmie’s wheaton link, I see only one inauguration per term. Any “second inauguration” was for a “second” term.
Chas, you win. You kicked her butt AGAIN.
“On January 21st 2005, the Reverend Billy Graham gave the opening prayer at National City “Christian Church for President George W. Bush’s second Inauguration.”
Actually this was the quote chass took exception with. It doesn’t say that he said the prayer at the inauguration as fermie and chass claimed. There is a traditional church service held and this is where Graham said the prayer exactly as stated.
You two are a pair. Frick and Frack.
But XXX is giving bigotbawks a run for the bbl.
Saying he voted against the hate amendment because I was his friend.
Hate amendment vote on April 5, 2005.
WE blog began June, 2005
I made my first post in January, 2006
Uh huh.
Sounds like the meaning of the word IS.
Who knew grmie and Bill Clinton thought so much alike?
Well fermie thanks for making me check my facts. I thought I had made a mistake but I was wrong.
You and chass had a serious defeat tonight. So close….but oh so far away.
Bawks has germie for an ally?
What a ….surprise.
Just keeping score here.
People who have a problem with gay marriage.
A juvenile punk/liar grandpa and a grandma who uses prison labor.
The operative fact here?
Age and character. They have an abundance of the former and almost none of the latter.
Such formidable foes!
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 23, 2008 at 7:47 pm | Permalink
But XXX is giving bigotbawks a run for the bbl.
Saying he voted against the hate amendment because I was his friend.
Hate amendment vote on April 5, 2005.
WE blog began June, 2005
I made my first post in January, 2006
Uh huh.
________________________________________________
So you say, but we know you for the liar you are. Where’s your proof? Just because you say so?
KFG, you’ve been trying to pull my chain all day, so let me throw your fat ugly a$$ a bone:
I married the woman I love.
You’ll never be able to do that.
In the eyes of the law, I’m married.
You, not so much.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!
What you got to say to that, chubbins?
Oh, there will be spittle!
And shrieks of Bigot!
Snot blowing and stamping of hooves!
Lots of rabid shrieking!
Pounding of keyboards and spit on the monitor!
Enough vulgarity to make a sailor blush!
Come on, KFG, do what you’re known best for.
I’ve pushed your buttons, I’ve pulled your strings.
Dance poodle, dance. I command you!
I’ll be back in the morning to check. Please try for at least 10-20 posts. Do as you’re told!
(Jesus smiled)
Stand by for the attack of the killer fairy!
When you’ve got an immature idiot making challenges to meet in a parking lot, and that if you refuse you are labeled a coward, more than justifies playing with that idiot like I did.
I sat and laughed at him most the day, he on the other hand stood in the cold looking around like the confused moron he is for a considerable length of time, enough to possible consider that what he had done was not such a good idea.
What was he thinking, I think nothing as he seems incapable of that, but he sure seemed interested in impressing his vulgar and equally base lesbian friend. What a maroon idea that would be. And yes, he learned something as did any other small time bully wanting to act like the big man they aren’t.
“If THIS is losing?
I’m cool with it.”
Well of course you are, that the sum total of your life….losing.
Nope XXX. You are the one who is showing exactly who you are. No comment necessary.
Everything I said was confirmed on the Warren thread on Saturday by mulitple posters.
Which of those facts do you dispute?
Face it dude, you got busted in a lie.
And all your ranting wont change that.
Heheheh.
And a lie is still a lie bigotbawks.
All YOUR ranting wont change that either.
20 or so minutes of my time to virtually de-ball you bawks?
And the BEST part is you keep reminding everyone!
Wanna have another go?
You can tell Brownlee is back for sure when we have a post with over 200 responses. LOL. GO RED MEAT!
By the way, the Pope is an ahole.
“By the way, the Pope is an ahole.”…P_mama
Trash, she’s nothing but heathen trash.
“Is” is actually pretty hard to define. Give it a whirl without consulting the dictionary and see how you do.
“I married the woman I love.
You’ll never be able to do that.”
Shifts in attitudes as to tolerance the last many years would tend to indicate otherwise.
“Obama accepted an invitation to appear at Warren’s presidential forum over the summer.”
Yeah and at the time, I worried that it foreshadowed things to come.
Obama will get NO honeymoon with the cons. He won’t get much of one with progressives. And ya know what happens to people who walk in the middle of the road.
So…
here is XXX’s post saying he voted against the hate amendement because I was his friend.
XXX
Posted December 20, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Permalink
And just for the record, I voted against the “hate amendment” to support YOU, whom I considered a friend.”
The vote on the kansas hate amendment was April 5, 2005. That is public record.
The blog didnt even begin until June, 2005. That is also public record. Email Phillip if you dont believe me.
I dont even have to prove when my first post was, even though both Rage and JR confirmed it was January 2006.
Just the fact that the blog began after the vote on the hate amendment is proof enough that XXX lied.
No wonder he is so upset.
And he cant even admit the facts.
hehehe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.
BlueJay, for such an immature boy, you sure like to speak with great authority….funny really.
At least he’s not a liar bigotbawks.
In a forum such as this bawks, it is not so much about authority as it is about credibility and respectability.
I’ll show you mine if you can find yours.
And that’s not the first time you mentioned “immature boys”.
Does your line of thinking drift you there easily?
This blog has to have been around longer than June 2005. That wouldn’t even include the 2004 presidential election. I know that there were discussions on the blog about Kerry, and voting for it before he voted against it etc… I recall the despondency of the liberals when they lost it all. So I think y’all are mistaken.
Regardless, I may disagree with XXX some, but I have always thought he was a person of integrity and have never known him to lie.
“This blog has to have been around longer than June 2005. ”
Nope. You may be remembering another discussion forum. WE Blog went online in this format in mid to late June 2005.
Oh now BlueJay and kfg, I’m surprised folks even give you the respect of ignoring you.
You really deserve less than that.
You both represent the the most stagnant, putrid and stench full of societal refuse.
But as long as you are marginalized to nothing more than an existence on a small city blog, ignoring you is okay I guess. I’d rather point out what you are.
“Oh now BlueJay and kfg, I’m surprised folks even give you the respect of ignoring you.
You really deserve less than that.”
WHILE you are looking for your credibility and respectability bawks?
Try hooking up practice and preach.
Bye?
Stagnant= unmoving, unrefreshed or unchanging.
See also, Conservative, Republican.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/
we can solve this dispute.
Or even better:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/archives/
The blog debuted on June 10, 2005. Note the huge number of comments:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/06/10/
P.S. First post:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/06/reefer_madness_1/#comments
Grannie??? You there wench???
NOW you are saying that your “quote” with no link wasnt about the Inauguration of GW Bush??
IF so, why did you call me your usual CRAP when I told you that earlier?? Huh??
Oh yea, and by the way — That “traditional church service” as you put it??? Ummmm…. THAT isnt a part of the Inauguration Ceremony!!!! GEEEEZZZZ!!! Go get your Dr. to prescribe some Aricept, like KFG told you!!! Cause, you DEFINITELY need ghat drug, or something like it!!!
And, when you get told you are WRONG… And I mean CLEARLY WRONG…. You should just shut up about it, and stop with your own personal brand of lunacy!!!
And Bigotbawks??? YOU need the Aricept as well…. GOD does not promote the kind of lying YOU do here!!!
And as for left-handed people and red heads??? Well…. God could have made all of us alike…. no red heads, and no left handed people…. But, then what would we do to prove to you bigots that GOD made some people straight… and others Gay!!!
Yep… just like left handed people and red heads… and you better bet that left handed people have had a LOT of bigotry thrown their direction…. for CENTURIES!!!
Even by the religiously over-zealous!!
So, Boxlicker and Grannie good WITCH….
God may love you…. but that doesnt mean God LIKES your kind!!
God tells me to love you…. but not to LIKE you… Damn, that makes me SO happy!!!
breathe in…and out….
Scuse me PMama…. I just get SO furious over grannie’s intentional stupidity!!!
Chas, P_mom is right, the gran is a troll. Ignore her.
“God tells me to love you…. but not to LIKE you… Damn, that makes me SO happy!!!”
God tells you nothing, because you don’t listen, ya faux preacher.
Hey preacher, got any snake oil? That’s all you’ve got to offer.
Pi$$ poor preacher, pi$$ poor person.
What does God tell you bawks?
To use your faith to hurt others?
Maybe to run away instead of standing up for yourself and your faith?
Many posters here have met Chas. You?
You’re LESS than a fart in the wind.
John Lennon: “You may say I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one…”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-etheridge/the-choice-is-ours-now_b_152947.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0
#
outlander
Posted December 23, 2008 at 9:10 pm | Permalink
This blog has to have been around longer than June 2005. That wouldn’t even include the 2004 presidential election. I know that there were discussions on the blog about Kerry, and voting for it before he voted against it etc… I recall the despondency of the liberals when they lost it all. So I think y’all are mistaken.
Regardless, I may disagree with XXX some, but I have always thought he was a person of integrity and have never known him to lie.
_________________________________________________
Outlander, thanks for your vote of confidence. I assure you it’s appreciated and won’t be forgotten.
I too would have thought the blog started before June of 2005, but I’ve been digging in the archives and 06/05 would seem to be the beginning. I found my first post just over a week after the blog started.
Ya know Junior wants some claim to fame by saying he was one of the first bloggers.
Big whoop eh?
Like anyone cares who signed on when and as if that makes any difference to the quality of the posts.
Although I have given XXX a hard time, from I’ve seen he’s an honest man and wouldn’t lie.
Anyone suggesting such has the inability to discuss.
Nathaniel Frank’s take on this issue:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/should-progressives-engag_b_152879.html
It’s pretty good.
#
Regular
Posted December 24, 2008 at 5:55 am | Permalink
Although I have given XXX a hard time, from I’ve seen he’s an honest man and wouldn’t lie.
Anyone suggesting such has the inability to discuss.
___________________________________________________
My God! Reg, is that really you? I’m truly stunned. Such a statement coming from you really takes me by surprise. Thanks for the back-up. It’s much appreciated.
TO KFG AND MY FELLOW BLOGGERS:
“I voted against the Kansas Defense of Marriage Act in support of KFG whom I considered a friend” (or something to that effect).
It would seem that the facts don’t support my statement and I offer my abject apology to KFG and my fellow bloggers for my statement. I can’t explain how I got this so wrong because this was honestly my recollection. I’m pretty befuddled by it myself. The only idea I can offer is that I must have confused the DOMA issue with some other of the many, many, many issues we have discussed over the years on these boards. There really was a time I considered KFG a friend and ally before her constant vile attacks against Christianity turned me against her. But that’s no excuse for a false statement and I humbly admit my error.
Over the years, I’ve tried to build a reputation on the blog as a man of honor and integrity. While I may fight like a junkyard dog to defend my position, my sense of honor and my Christian faith forbid lying to make a point. Many of you on both the left and the right have tangled with me at one time or other. While I can get down and dirty, I’ve always maintained my sense of honor and fair play. That same sense of honor demands that I admit when I’ve gotten it so dreadfully wrong. I do so here today.
I offer my oath before my God that my statement was truly my recollection and was not an attempt to mislead or delude anybody. I hope my reputation would support that, but I leave the judgment up to my fellow bloggers.
I goofed and I apologize.
“Many posters here have met Chas. You?”
You’ve met me BlueJay, remember I’m the guy that let you show us all just how much of an immature jerk you are with the impotent childish challenges you issue.
TIME SAVER
ADMINISTRATIVE NOTE TO READERS:
The pick of the preacher for the invocation at the inauguration has proven to be of paramount importance to the democrat party.
It is, in short one of the greatest problems facing this nation, and as such, there are over two hundred crybaby bleeding heart posts on this thread.
Because liberals tend to be emotional and react to the slightest change in barometric pressure, from time-to-time I will provide you TIME SAVER posts when the micromanagement gets too petty.
When you see the TIME SAVER you can quickly scroll, or select a different thread with real content (good luck with the later).
I see Regular has donned one of his many nics, “blog monitor”, again.
The key to tying the two together is his use of “democrat party” in the attempt to demean the party that will soon occupy the the White House.
Blaidd_Drwg69=CapnAmerica
No one can accurately “label” the posters who participate on any thread. It happens often, but it is a misrepresentation. Just another of the many ways to denigrate, and find fault.
Sorry Regular, you’ve got it all wrong.
I am not now, nor have I ever been CapnAmerica.
If we were to go ONE day and not comment on fellow bloggers, how many fewer posts would we see?
Rachel Maddow and Katha Pollit take Rick Warren to School.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rwk845iMXY
Obama needs to take a lesson from XXX and admit when he’s wrong.
But just like bush, he’s unable to do it.
I am not now, nor have I ever been CapnAmerica.
Shall I say, “duh”?
And so you see idiot just how stupid you in your original post where you waste space claiming I am Regular.
Stupid really.
You are Regular.
Another terrible decision by the President elect?
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-poobama1224,0,6399608.story
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Blaidd_Drwg69
Posted December 24, 2008 at 9:18 am | Permalink
You are Regular.
——————-
You Libs are just so freaking paranoid on who is who on this blog.
Sorry, whomever “you” is, it ain’t me. I post under Regular and that’s it.
Blather and Blither on…
I never saw you as one who would have voted for that amendment X.
The REASON that you voted as you did is not so important as the vote itself.
I never believed this was a lie so much as a mistake.
#
BlueJay
Posted December 24, 2008 at 10:20 am | Permalink
I never saw you as one who would have voted for that amendment X.
The REASON that you voted as you did is not so important as the vote itself.
I never believed this was a lie so much as a mistake.
________________________________________________
Thanks for your support BlueJay. Much appreciated.
I call them as I see ‘em X.
Big guy that you are, I just can’t feature you as the heavy.
I never had any doubt either.
MY Christmas wish is for healing between two very good and passionate friends.
There are so many, much more important things to fight about. Let the cons perfect the art of circular firing squad. IF they have any survivors, we can take their wisdom under advisement.
X,
“There really was a time I considered KFG a friend and ally before her constant vile attacks against Christianity turned me against her.”
I might point out that it is highly unlikely that Farm Gal would have attacked anyone, including the church, if they hadn’t launched constant vile attacks against her and hers.
Sure, not all christians attacked her, but the vast majority of you remained silently passive as the religious extremists piled tons and tons of purest bullshit on that issue in hopes that something marketable would grow. Were you all secretly hoping to reap some share of the immense profits they managed to generate with their hate campaign? Or were you afraid of being identified as not christian enough? Whatever the reason, you allowed yourselves to be manipulated like a flock of sheep by demagogues whose overt interest is money and power. Your donations fed the hatred and your votes provided monsters with the political power that has destroyed this once-great nation. You are just as responsible for the state of our nation as the phony leaders you unquestioningly padded along after.
Jed
Posted December 24, 2008 at 3:35 pm | Permalin
_________________________________________________
Blah Blah Blah.
Lucky you.
Hell ain’t half full.
I am not able to understand the intent of X’s last post.