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374 Comments
MEP: THE PARADIGM THAT THE IPCC DARE NOT MENTION
Garth Paltridge, then a senior Australian CSIRO researcher, published in 1974 one of the very earliest papers (following Ralph Lorenz in 1960) on what is the burgeoning technical field of Maximum Entropy Production (MEP). The science of MEP, which now generates a substantial amount of mainstream literature every year, is resulting in a thorough review of the science of Earth’s climate and of Global Circulation Models (GCMs).
It is already becoming clear this spells the death knell for a high temperature sensitivity to a CO2 doubling. For example: Kleidon et al. (2006) Maximum entropy production and the strength of boundary layer exchange in an atmospheric general circulation model. GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 33, L06706 show that the climate sensitivity to a 10x increase in atmospheric CO2 is about 3.3 K. Noting the usual log-linear relationship this is equivalent to a climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 of only about 1.0 K.
In this setup, entropy was produced by radiative transfer (absorption of solar and terrestrial radiation at the surface and in the atmosphere), the turbulent transport of sensible heat in the vertical, and horizontal heat transport by large-scale atmospheric circulation. Due to the exclusion of the water cycle (evapotranspiration, latent heat transport), entropy production associated with the hydrologic cycle [Paulius and Held, 2002a, 2002b] was not considered. Inclusion of the water cycle would mean the sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 is very likely to be even significantly less than 1 deg. C. I don’t think I have to spell out to you what this implied for even the lower limit to CO2 sensitivity vis-a-vis IPCC AR4 2007.
Yet nowhere in IPCC AR4 2007 will you find a single reference to the now 38 year long MEP-based literature record! This despite a steady groundswell of papers and the publication of an excellent review text edited by Axel Kleidon and Ralph Lorenz in 2005 (Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics and the production of Entropy. Life, Earth and Beyond. Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg).
As CO2 goes up and tends to increase troposphere temperature, MEP requires that meridional, latitudinal and convective movement must increase. This in turn increases cloudiness (both convective and orographic) and hence rainfall thereby increasing the net amount by which clouds reduce the radiative heating of the planet i.e. presently the -13 - -21 W/m^2 which we know acts against the ~4 W/m^2 predicted for a doubling of CO2.
I would also note that biotic processes are also subject to MEP. Rising CO2 increases continental plant biomass (already observed) and oceanic cyanobacterial primary productivity (earlier this year I posted the clear evidence for that for the Southern Ocean from NOAA’s own data on Jennifer Marohasy’s blog) simply due to CO2 fertilization which increases biogenic aerosol production rate which in turn increases both cloud nucleation rate and cloud-based opacity/albedo. This aspect is the as-yet almost forgotten biotic sibling of abiotic MEP.
Thanks to both abiotic and (soon) biotic MEP we can expect a cloudier, rainier planet rather than a hotter one.
Atmospheric CO2 may go where it will but I suspect in due course its rate of increase will eventually slow. The same thing will happen to any oceanic pH decline as increased raininess increases continental weathering rates which increases the export of total alkalinity, Fe and Si into the ocean (which in turn tends to CO2-absorbing primary productivity, neutralize CO2-induced acidity and so on).
Given:
* the lack of the IPCC-predicted stratospheric heating;
* the observed reduction in tropical-polar temperature gradients (underestimated by GCMs);
* the known 30 year trends in continental potential evaporation (down), cloudiness, rainfall (both up), oceanic wind speeds (up) etc; and
* the confounding 20 year surface temperature record just before and since the 1998 El Nino (up then down),
I think we can reasonably expect to see a majority of top level climate researchers in the next few years cautiously promulgating a more moderate view of global climate CO2 sensitivity and a more optimistic view on climate homeostasis and so-called ocean acidification. It is already happening at various reputable overseas universities (e.g. MIT, several Max Planck Institutes, Uni. Hamburg etc) and even now is slowly creeping into other institutions, including here in Australia.
Of course the monstrous egos, the chronically dogmatic, the hopelessly compromised, the committed members of the AGW herd won’t like it but, hey, that’s entropy for you.
———————————-
An email from Steve Short [steve@ecoengineers.com] of Ecoengineers Pty Ltd, http://www.ecoengineers.com. He points out that even a doubling of CO2 could lead to a temperture rise of only one degree
“Since private and publick Vices, are in Reality, though not always apparently, so nearly connected, of how much Importance, how necessary is it, that the utmost Pains be taken by the Publick, to have the Principles of Virtue early inculcated on the Minds even of children, and the moral Sense kept alive, and that the wise institutions of our Ancestors for these great Purposes be encouraged by the Government. For no people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffusd and Virtue is preservd. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauchd in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.”
–Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 4 November 1775
And the Libs question and criticize Conservatives for paying attention to a candidates morals in their private lives.
Obama going to name a competent person to lead SEC, help is on the way, I see a rally in our near future!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081218/pl_nm/us_usa_obama_21
Damn, this sounds like one of Saddam’s moves, except he did have summary executions.
“BAGHDAD (Reuters) – A number of officers from Iraq’s Interior Ministry have been arrested on charges of trying to rebuild former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s Baath party, a ministry spokesman said on Thursday.
The New York Times reported on Thursday that an elite counterterrorism force, reporting directly to Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, arrested up to 35 officials, some of whom were accused of plotting a coup against the government.
Gay leaders furious with Obama —- Politico
“Barack Obama’s choice of a prominent evangelical minister to deliver the invocation at his inauguration is a conciliatory gesture toward social conservatives who opposed him in November, but it is drawing fierce challenges from a gay rights movement that – in the wake of a gay marriage ban in California – is looking for a fight.
“Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in southern California, opposes abortion rights but has taken more liberal stances on the government role in fighting poverty, and backed away from other evangelicals’ staunch support for economic conservatism. But it’s his support for the California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that drew the most heated criticism from Democrats Wednesday.”
Interesting, maybe the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender/transsexual people are not going to be quite as happy with their choice in a Presidential candidate as they thought they were going to be. Maybe they were/are as confused on that issue as they are on their lifestyle choices. Maybe after an election the winning candidate no longer feels quite the need to woo the voters with pledges or promises kept.
Good morning Boxlock,
Imagine, Obama picks a Christian Minister for his inaugural invocation!
Hoe incredibly insensitive! Sinners everywhere should unite! Atheists, agnostics, Jews and Muslims should protest in the streets!
hehehe
nitwits
hoe = how
Four years and out if he keeps pandering to the trash.
We cab be just as harsh with Obama as we have with bush.
Hey Obama supporters?
What do you think about this?
Think Barry can get the nomination in four years for the GOP? That seems to be his aim.
I think we are ONE America just like he has always said. Change can happen working together. Did you read the explanation? Rage posted it on yesterday’s Open Thread. Sounded reasonable to me. People hold differing opinions. Equal protection under the law is coming whether people who disagree want it or not. Their disagreement doesn’t make them less American, just as someone’s sexual persuasion doesn’t make them less American. Diversity! It’s what America is.
Rage
Posted December 17, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Here’s the response:
Linda Douglass, a spokeswoman for Mr. Obama’s presidential inaugural committee, said the upcoming ceremony would be the “most open and accessible” inauguration in history and defended the inclusion of Mr. Warren.
“Clearly, the president-elect disagrees with him on issues involving the LGBT community,” she said. But Mr. Obama has consistently stressed the need to “seek common ground with people with whom we disagree fundamentally.”
Ms. Douglass noted that the benediction, or closing prayers, would be offered by the Rev. Joseph E. Lowery, a civil rights icon who has expressed support for gay marriage, and that the Lesbian and Gay Band Association would march in the inaugural parade, the first time such a group would do so.
Let the guy do his invocation thing, but put Camp Obama on notice that he damn well better deliver on his campaign promises.
HLP is a plagarizing pig. No one reads your horse droppings. We realize you can cut and paste from the net. We also realize that you wait to be the first on the thread in the morning. The problem is you are boring. Have an original thought! Most read this to learn. No one cares what you cut and paste as you don’t think. People like you are the ones we never noticed in high school and college as you were plain boring. In fact, everyone who thinks HLP is boring, wear a coat while outside today. If you think HLP is interesting, go outside naked. If you see more people naked than wearing a coat today, I will keep my mouth shut on HLP’s known stupidity. TheEagle, flying above HLP’s horse droppings and pointing out the obvious.
Good morning BlueJay!
May you and yours have a merry Christmas!
Evidently, little Barry Barack Hussein Soweto Davis Obama was the very best the democrat party could come up with. Now, like Clinton and every other democrat in an elected office, every thing he does in the next four years will have one and only one overriding purpose. Get reelected.
Then, barring the usual democrat scandal, little Barry Barack Hussein Soweto Davis Obama will have four years to use our tax dollars to work on his legacy. You and your ilk will always be disappointed by politicians because your life will not be improved by their policies.
You need to embrace your new president, he’s the best you could come up with.
Lesbian and Gay Band Association would march in the inaugural parade
———
That should be quite a sight.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 17, 2008 at 11:31 pm | Permalink
But thank you for again proving you’re completely clueless about the issue you deny — AGW science.
Move to Miami, highs of 80 are forecast for the next few days. Or Australia, with some areas at about 110.
__________________________________________________
Somebody forgot to tell Cos that it’s almost summertime in Australia. The AGW crowd has found another way to cook the data. Use only that data from the summer regions.
Cos must be having a brain freeze with day number 5 without sunshine. Go ahead burn some GHG. We won’t tell anyone.
“But Mr. Obama has consistently stressed the need to “seek common ground with people with whom we disagree fundamentally.””
WHY on Earth would anyone seek common ground with evil?
Record snow in December across the country. Gamble in Los Vegas snow. Global cooling instead of warming. Snow on Gore.
http://www.accuweather.com/news-top-headline.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&date=2008-12-18_09:10
“WHY on Earth would anyone seek common ground with evil?”
Is this why BHO is not seeking advice from you?
Fortunately, we do not have to rely on “love me!” Obama.
We have a Democratic House, Senate, and a populace sick to death with Republicans.
HLP and other wackos, you are out of touch. The failed policies of the last 8 years came back with a backlash. Sure, Obama is to the left. This is because Bush was to the right of Atilla the Hun. Bush and dorks like you see the world in black and white. Sorry, the world has gray also. Bush wanted people to be with him or against him. Oh so easy. People who think (and put subjects in their sentences unlike Sarah Palin the porn star) know that sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t. The world hates us as Bush liked to promote his way or the highway. Sometimes compromise is good. I am not always right. You are almost never correct. Do we know the full impact of global warming? Maybe it is worse or maybe it is not as bad as some think. To deny global warming is like denying the fact that gravity exists. By the way, do you have a job or are you a lazy bum at work as you are at copying others thoughts?
You know dublin…at least try to understand the topic before posting. That way you wont look so ignorant. But Good Morning to ya!
Ah and there is george showing his lack of knowledge between climate and short term meterology.
Eagle, you should change you name to buzzard.
“In fact, everyone who thinks HLP is boring, wear a coat while outside today. If you think HLP is interesting, go outside naked. If you see more people naked than wearing a coat today, I will keep my mouth shut on HLP’s known stupidity.”
If that’s the only way you can support your opinion then you must be desperate.
lack of knowledge between climate and short term meterology.
Is it too difficult to understand that weather constitutes climate. Unless you are hansen, then you pick and choose or adjust the weather data to your liking.
No Eagle, you posting are as wonderful this morning as the great cup of Joe I am drinking! Well done sir!
Davos,
Where were you yesterday when Cos got his clock cleaned?
“at least try to understand the topic before posting. That way you wont look so ignorant. But Good Morning to ya!”
Oh Sol…please. Go cut and paste something you don’t even understand.
Obama opposes Gay Marriage.
But Obama opposes a ban.
Obama is pro-civil union (like a majority of Americans).
All part of his platform.
He won on the economy stupids.
I suggest cutting and pasting anything from the Heartland group or whatever they call themselves. Good day!
You refute my post? Care to back it up?
Eagle and Davos are thinkers. My coffee kicked in and I made a baby HLP. Then I wiped.
Not in the mood to teach today, need to go back to work. Good day to ya!
Thought not.
Good morning Sol,
Good posts yesterday. I enjoyed watching Cosmos’s head implode.
If you hear a loud thump this morning, it’s probably the head of Davos and/or Eagle. I think they get their talking points from Cos.
Cos is not hear yet because he is still slipping a sliding on his bike in the snow.
Good for you you had a thought…keep practicing Sol.
Hey eds! How about a thread on global warming.
Brown Signs and Water Towers
===========
I like your site Sol.
Be thankful you have leaves. You should see SW Kansas…mostly brown.
#
DavosRancheros
Posted December 18, 2008 at 8:40 am | Permalink
Not in the mood to teach today, need to go back to work. Good day to ya!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TRANSLATION: I’d better get my ass out of hear before I get it waxed.
opps hear = here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28292558/
Cat’s alive! Are they really much smarter than lobsters?
Be thankful you have leaves.
Alas, that was early fall. We’ve been in the teens for a month solid. All that global warming, you know.
Sol,
Correction: Life forms that have leaves.
;)
Gotcha. Check your GMail.
BlowJay blows again:
“Four years and out if he keeps pandering to the trash.
We cab be just as harsh with Obama as we have with bush.”
Ha, seems BlowJay doesn’t like anybody. No one is Marxist enough for him.
Is anyone surprised BlowJay is not happy….again.
Change®
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…tolja
To refer to Rick Warren as “trash” shows a blackness of heart that is undescribable.
Yeah kia.
It’s insulting to trash….
We should apologize to trash everywhere for comparing trash to warren. Or obama
I think we should call both of them what they are. Bigoted Bastards.
With apologies to bastards everywhere.
If that is your honest opinion of Rick Warren, I am guessing the same would go then for the Rev. Billy Graham?
Proof that you and those who share your beliefs are so far outside the mainstream of this country, it’d put you in another galaxy if measured in miles.
There is a big void over to the dark side Mr. Kia. I hope I never go there.
I hope that my happiness isn’t ever controlled by the opinions of others about one issue, like some folks we know.
How long are the apologists going to apologize for obama? As long as the bushies apologize for bushco?
heheheh.
Funny thing, in this reaching out and all inclusive frenzy, I dont see him reaching out to racists.
Change we can believe in. Indeed.
We’ll be back here in a year, with the same apologists who apologized for obama regarding mcclurkin and warren apologizing for every other position obama abandons.
Call me when he actually DOES something for human rights and equality. Otherwise?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Just what I predicted. And expected.
Are Equality and Human Rights limited to Gay Marriage in your world?
“If that is your honest opinion of Rick Warren, I am guessing the same would go then for the Rev. Billy Graham?”
Yep.
He’s just as racist as warren is homophobic.
So outie, when do we get to vote on YOUR marriage?
Your too stupid to understand. Question withdrawn.
Your mind is made up kia. I see no point in answering any questions from you.
Give me a call when obama reaches out to the KKK.
Until then?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
no surprises here
IIRC HRC supported obama.
Vichy queers get what they deserve.
I wonder when he’ll appoint gail finney as his outreach coordinator to the LGBT community?
The heteros demand special rights….
Vichy queers get what they deserve.
=========================
Temporary break in our agreement with no hostile words!!!!
What is Vichy? Honestly I am curious.
Vichy=fashion, rich?
Gee, I wonder why the all inclusive obama folks are not including Dr. Thomas Robb on the agenda. I mean, since he’s reaching out to everyone….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Robb
Oh, but gay bands will be marching.
That makes it ALL ok.
..and maybe he could ask one of those child abusing priests to give a blessing? I mean, since he’s reaching out to EVERYONE, why not pedophiles?
“ksfarmgrrl –
I, to am appalled by the selection of Warren.
But according to Bob Cesca –
“… the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama’s. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony. Congress, not Obama, invited Warren… (snip)
Still, it seems to me this is one of those decisions Obama could and should overrule.
Obama will reach out to the LGBT community right after he reaches out to the Libertarian - Goldwater conservatives. So, ahem, don’t hold your breath Farmie.
BTW, KFG-
My coop is on casters, if you can imagine that!
Wheeled it into the shed so my birds don’t get cold…it wasn’t easy.
Hope your feathered peckers are doing well.
BTW Farmie,
Had Ron Paul gotten elected, you’d have the same rights as everyone else. And more money to spend on your wedding ;~>
Good luck finding anyone that the Gay community would approve of giving an invocation.
Or should it just be banned from the ceremony all together?
feathered peckers
Kinky !!!
“Had Ron Paul gotten elected, you’d have the same rights as everyone else.”
You are COMPLETELY full of shit.
Please post where ron paul ever supported gay marriage.
“Or should it just be banned from the ceremony all together?”
Yes, it should. But since you christian dominionists insist on it…
How about Rev. Gene Robinson? There are plenty of ministers who are NOT homophobes.
Apparently, obama has never heard of them.
Besides, a gay band may march. That makes it all ok.
I’m still voting for Dr. Thomas Robb. Since he’s reaching out and all.
Done posting for a while.
KFG, Agreement back in place
Queerty enough of a source?
http://www.queerty.com/ron-paul-on-gay-marriage-20071210/
“So, ahem, don’t hold your breath Farmie.”
I’m not. I knew he was a bigoted bastard ever since he aligned himself with donnie mcclurkin and kirbyjon caldwell.
Why do you think I supported cynthia?
And where are the obama apologists this morning to tell us that the gay band will march?
Seems like ron paul likes to contradict himself on gay marriage, depending on his audience.
At least obama is anti gay consistantly. Oh, he says the words, but his actions are always the same.
anti gay
Oops. forgot the link where he says had he been in congress in ‘96, he would have voted FOR doma.
http://spaceramblings.blogsome.com/2007/06/05/ron-pauls-opposition-to-gay-marriage-clarified/
Where are obama’s apologists this morning? Come on, defend your guy.
“Oh, but gay bands will be marching.
That makes it ALL ok.”
Ha ha ha, I think it makes them look foolish….ops, I mean it makes them look exactly as they are.
What am I, “ksfarmgrrl?”
Chopped liver?
“Initial claims for unemployment benefits dropped more than expected last week…”
That’s weird. Usually, they are spot on.
John Stossel: Homosexuality. Should gays be allowed to marry?
Ron Paul: Sure.
Stossel: The State says, we will believe in this?
Paul: Sure they can do whatever they want and they can call it whatever they want , just so they don’t expect to impose their relationship on somebody else. They can’t make me, personally, accept what they do, but they gay couples can do whatever they want. In fact, I’d like to see all governments out of the marriage question. I don’t think it’s a state function. I think it’s a religious function. There was a time when only churches dealt with marriage, and they determined what it was. But 100 years or so ago for health reasons they claim that the state would protect us if we knew more about our spouses and we did health testing and you had to get a license to get married and I don’t agree with that.
http://www.queerty.com/ron-paul-on-gay-marriage-20071210/
Sorry Monkeyhawk, I didnt see your post.
From Aravosis. I hope he’s happy for giving obama a pass on mcclurkin. Look at what it led to. Feinstein is disavowing the decision. Plausible deniability is so, well, republican, no?
And come on. Can you say with a straight face that obama didnt have any say in this?
PUL-EEEEEZE!
Advertisements [?]
Aravosis: “A powerful Democratic friend contacted me this morning to let me know that they talked to the key players yesterday, and Diane Feinstein, chair of the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, had nothing to do with the pick of Rick Warren as Obama’s invocation speaker at the inaugural. The decision was made by Obama himself, I’m told, and Feinstein just assumed that he had vetted it with his staff. Difi went along with Obama’s decision, not the other way around. If this is true, then our apologies to Senator Feinstein for suggesting that she was involved.”
More: http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/feinstein-reportedly...
Mr. Speaker, while I oppose federal efforts to redefine marriage as something other than a union between one man and one woman, I do not believe a constitutional amendment is either a necessary or proper way to defend marriage.
While marriage is licensed and otherwise regulated by the states, government did not create the institution of marriage. In fact, the institution of marriage most likely pre-dates the institution of government! Government regulation of marriage is based on state recognition of the practices and customs formulated by private individuals interacting in civil society. Many people associate their wedding day with completing the rituals and other requirements of their faith, thus being joined in the eyes of their church and their creator, not with receiving their marriage license, thus being joined in the eyes of the state.
If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html
Ron paul is just as adept at talking out of both sides of his mouth as obama.
““If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. f
This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction.”
Same-sex unions
Paul opposes all federal efforts to redefine marriage, whether defined as a union between one man and one woman, or defined as including anything else as well. He believes that recognizing or legislating marriages should be left to the states, and not subjected to judicial activism.[196] For this reason, Paul voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Sexual_orientation_legislation
Words - actions
And the fact that bigotbawks and hank agree with obama on this and other issues ought to give you obama apologists pause.
Three old farts are out walking….
First fart: ‘Windy, isn’t it?’
Second fart: ‘No, it’s Thursday!’
Third fart: ‘So am I. Let’s go get a beer!’
Warren is the most popular Pastor in America and widley regarded as the heir to Rev. Graham’s unofficial title as “America’s Pastor.”
Tough cookies.
“This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313″
Yeah. “Plausible” deniability.
(sigh)
I hope Obama uninvites Warren.
Like I said, both sides of his mouth.
Morning, righties, lefties and inbetweenies.
Howdy KFG, HLP, Ms Inks…..
hehehe
The good reverend Rick Warren is going to give the inaugeral invocation and there isn’t one democrat that knows how he got selected.
Divine intervention?
hahaha
Oops. forgot the link where he says had he been in congress in ‘96, he would have voted FOR doma.
Based on State’s rights, not gay marriage.
In 2004, he spoke in support of the Defense of Marriage Act (passed in 1996) which uses the U.S. Constitution’s Full Faith and Credit Clause to prohibit states from being compelled to recognize same-sex relationships as marriages, even if treated as marriages in other states. The Defense of Marriage Act also prohibits the U.S. government from recognizing same-sex marriages, even if treated as marriages in other states. He co-sponsored the Marriage Protection Act, which would have barred federal judges from hearing cases pertaining to the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act.[196][197]
“I hope Obama uninvites Warren.”
He just defended it fifteen minutes ago after being questioned in today’s presser.
not likely
you must be so proud to have said mclurkin was no big deal.
This is what it leads to….
exactly sol. he doesnt give a rat’s ass about gay people. Just let the states legalize bigotry.
Old fart, telling his neighbor:
‘I just bought a new hearing aid. It cost me four thousand dollars, but its state of the art. It’s perfect.’
Old fart’s neighbor:
‘Really,’ answered the neighbor. ‘What kind is it?’
Old fart:
‘Twelve thirty’, he replied.
Good morning ksfarmgrrl!
Good morning RP_McMurphy!
Oh I know exactly how he got selected.
By obama himself. There isnt any REAL doubt about it.
Does anyone think obama didnt have veto power over who gives the jesus whine at his little party?
I am all for your cause, farmgrrl!
Obama has a difficult job and I plan to wait until he has done, or not done, something to make judgments. I will be very disappointed if he makes any moves that negatively affect civil rights for ALL.
I do not see why excluding those who disagree on gay rights would be better than excluding those who disagree on ________ (fill in the blank!).
I want all people respected and treated equally under the law, including those I disagree with.
But hey, the gay band is marching so that makes it ok.
False equivalency anyone?
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
It is a states’ rights issue. If you read what the man is talking about, he gives a rat’s ass less if gays marry, but one state can’t force another state to accept it.
Pretty simple, if you follow the constitution.
Good morning, Randle Patrick! You make us all smile! You may be a nut, but you’re a funny one. ;-)
“I want all people respected and treated equally under the law, including those I disagree with.”
So you would approve then, of him inviting Dr. Thomas Robb?
Cool.
So it’s cool with you sol if states refuse to recognize marriage between folks of different races?
If a state choses to make their schools separate but equal, that’s ok with you?
I wonder why obama isnt inviting david duke to sit on the platform? I mean, since he’s courting those with whom he disagrees?
What makes you think he disagrees with Pastor Warren more than he agrees with him?
I didnt say he disagrees with him. I think he does agree with him.
Then who is he courting that he disagrees with?
So it’s cool with you sol if states refuse to recognize marriage between folks of different races?
If a state choses to make their schools separate but equal, that’s ok with you?
Sure. I would vote against both (as would the vast majority of Michiganders) so I don’t fear it. If the state congress passed the state law as anyway, the congressmen would be voted out next cycle and the law repealed.
I think the constitution pretty much covers that as well. States are to have the power, not the federal government. The more power the federal government attains, the closer we get to tyranny and fascism.
From LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)
COPS SAY LEGALIZE DRUGS!
ASK US WHY
After nearly four decades of fueling the U.S. policy of a war on drugs with over a trillion tax dollars and 37 million arrests for nonviolent drug offenses, our confined population has quadrupled making building prisons the fastest growing industry in the United States. More than 2.2 million of our citizens are currently incarcerated and every year we arrest an additional 1.9 million more guaranteeing those prisons will be bursting at their seams. Every year we choose to continue this war will cost U.S. taxpayers another 69 billion dollars. Despite all the lives we have destroyed and all the money so ill spent, today illicit drugs are cheaper, more potent, and far easier to get than they were 35 years ago at the beginning of the war on drugs. Meanwhile, people continue dying in our streets while drug barons and terrorists continue to grow richer than ever before. We would suggest that this scenario must be the very definition of a failed public policy. This madness must cease!
Farm Girl,
If Rick Warren and Billy Graham are bigoted bastards, then so is God. Warren and Graham are just going by what the Bible says. If you want to call someone a bigoted bastard, then tell God.
“If Rick Warren and Billy Graham are bigoted bastards, then so is God.”
No, god doesnt exist. That would make god a fairy tale, not a flesh and blood bigoted bastard.
ksfarmgrrl whines again.
Sorry. I was wrong. god is a myth. It’s the bible that is a fairy tale…
Call me a bit cynical, but when it comes down to it, this is all probably just a piece of stratgic PR on Obama’s part. Sure, conservatives are pleased he invited Rick Warren and homosexual activists are upset. But the proof will be in the pudding as they say. That comes later
“Then who is he courting that he disagrees with?”
Why dont you ask Linda? She’s the one who said it.
How much history of the Bible do you know?
“But the proof will be in the pudding as they say. That comes later”
Call me when he actually lifts a finger to support the lgbt community. All we have now are pretty words.
And doing NOTHING is supporting the status quo. Ya know, the policies of bushco.
“How much history of the Bible do you know?”
How much history do you know of Grimm’s Fairy Tales?
It has about the same relevance.
You chrisitians and obama supporters have a good day. Bigotry wins. You must be so happy….
Maybe Obama should have asked a Native American shaman. Shake some rattles, a few drums, an eagle screech and perhaps some foot stomp ceremony…
So None.
Thanks.
Bigot heal thyself.
When the country voted for Obama they were really voting against KSFARMGRRL and all her mean devisive ideas. My Republican party was tolerant. KSFARMIDIOTS is intolerant a bigot and a racist. Let the normal folks have my Republican party back and Obama would not have won. You folks are John Birchers outside the mainstream folks and you ruined my name and my legacy. Ronald Reagan.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:44 am | Permalink
Call me when he actually lifts a finger to support the lgbt community. All we have now are pretty words.
—————————————————-
To my knowledge none of those pretty words were ever in support of the lgbt community correct?
All you libs thought you were voting for ch-ch-change: (snickering loudly)
“Among those whose opinions Obama sought were Lawrence B. Lindsey, a top economic adviser to President George W. Bush during his first term, and Harvard professor Martin Feldstein, an informal adviser to John McCain and the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Ronald Reagan.” Foxnews
Dear ksfarmgrrl,
Rick Warren has done more than most to aleviate aids and the effects of aids. You may not aggree with him but you must respect the fact that he ‘walks the talk’.
He has even brought David Miller, the founder of ACT Up to Christ through his ministry. I personnaly believe that Rick Warren is the perfect pick for the inaugeral invocation.
Least anyone forget, Obama PROMISED to cut taxes on 95% of Americans (and he had amounts):
“There would also be some form of tax relief, according to the Obama team, which is well aware of the political difficulty of pushing such a large package through Congress, even in a time of recession. Any tax cuts would be aimed at middle- and lower-income taxpayers, and aides have said there would be no tax increases for wealthy Americans.” Foxnews
Speaking of ch-ch-change, you all did see that Obama is following in George Bush’s footsteps as the TIME man of the year?
Yep. George was the main man in 2000 & 2004.
Big feet to fill for Obama.
I think it’s wrong that Obama invited Rev. Warren to tee off the inaugaration.
It’s obviously pay-back for the Saddleback debates, which I thought was also a really stupid move by Obama both politically and symbolically.
Heigh ho, you go to the polls with the candidates you’ve got, not the candidates you want.
The ultimate answer is to overthrow the archaic and unresponsive two-party system, but that ain’t gonna happen in our lifetimes.
KFG — Dr. Joseph Lowery is scheduled to pronounce the Benediction (Closing Prayer)… I too am bamboozled as to why he included Rick Warren to do the Invocation.
I hope Lowery cleans Warren’s clock in the Benediction (which, I understand, he is quite capable of doing)….
Kia, wtf do you want to know about the “history of the bible”?
I know it was written by humans.
Go ahead. Play trivia with me.
But of course, for wingnuts like you, one’s too many and a hundred’s not enough.
And obama supporters? Notice who all is applauding him for this pick.
you must all be so proud of your boy…
Nothing is helped, nothing is made more clear by personal attacks on farmgrrl. This is her life, not just an issue. And it has to hurt a bunch to be UNequal under the law. It’s not right! Neither is ganging up on the victim right! She is a citizen of this country like everyone else, but she doesn’t get all the rights everyone else does. YET!
Oh and kia, answer my question about how much you know of Grimms hisotry.
’cause ya know, a fairy tale is a fairy tale is a fairy tale….
Call me a bit cynical, but when it comes down to it, this is all probably just a piece of stratgic PR on Obama’s part.
———
Or to argue with my own cynical side, maybe he met Rick Warren, likes Rick Warren, and wants him to do the invocation at his inauguration. It is his party.
Politics is not life and death to everyone.
#
Mr_Kia
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:43 am | Permalink
How much history of the Bible do you know?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Her demons would tear her a new asshole if she read it.
ksfarmgrrl regarding the Reverend Rick Warren giving the invocation:
“We have to disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans.”
Oh yeah. Good for obama. Lowery is at the END.
Warren is at the beginning.
Look who all is siding with you. Nice company you keep.
Fuck you kia, what do you want to know?
Scared of me? Come on smart boy, let’s play.
It’s your excesses that cook your agenda. Reach around, anyone?
In fact, Warren was probably a breath of fresh air to Obama after having listened to Jeremiah Wright for 20 years. That negativity would get old.
“Politics is not life and death to everyone”
Said by a white, straight, christian man. How conveeeenient.
Ask Matthew Shepard about that.
Dec. 16, 2008: NASA’s five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth’s magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to “load up” the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.
“At first I didn’t believe it,” says THEMIS project scientist David Sibeck of the Goddard Space Flight Center. “This finding fundamentally alters our understanding of the solar wind-magnetosphere interaction.”
The magnetosphere is a bubble of magnetism that surrounds Earth and protects us from solar wind. Exploring the bubble is a key goal of the THEMIS mission, launched in February 2007. The big discovery came on June 3, 2007, when the five probes serendipitously flew through the breach just as it was opening. Onboard sensors recorded a torrent of solar wind particles streaming into the magnetosphere, signaling an event of unexpected size and importance.
“The opening was huge—four times wider than Earth itself,” says Wenhui Li, a space physicist at the University of New Hampshire who has been analyzing the data. Li’s colleague Jimmy Raeder, also of New Hampshire, says “1027 particles per second were flowing into the magnetosphere—that’s a 1 followed by 27 zeros. This kind of influx is an order of magnitude greater than what we thought was possible.”
The event began with little warning when a gentle gust of solar wind delivered a bundle of magnetic fields from the Sun to Earth. Like an octopus wrapping its tentacles around a big clam, solar magnetic fields draped themselves around the magnetosphere and cracked it open. The cracking was accomplished by means of a process called “magnetic reconnection.” High above Earth’s poles, solar and terrestrial magnetic fields linked up (reconnected) to form conduits for solar wind. Conduits over the Arctic and Antarctic quickly expanded; within minutes they overlapped over Earth’s equator to create the biggest magnetic breach ever recorded by Earth-orbiting spacecraft.
******
God gave Noah the rainbow sign.
No more water but FIRE next time . . .
Pharoah’s army got drown-ed
Oh, Mary don’t you weep.
Farmgrrl, I’m not perfect and I don’t expect Obama (or any other human) to be either. If (and when) he does something to set civil rights back, I’ll be outraged.
Come on donn, kia. Bring it on. Scared to play with me?
“ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:45 am | Permalink
“How much history of the Bible do you know?”
How much history do you know of Grimm’s Fairy Tales?
It has about the same relevance.”
If the bible is a fairy tale, then why the hell Farm Girl do you guys want to get “married”?
Why not just a legal civil union which provides you all the “rights” married people have?
All he has to do is nothing, Linda for the bushco policies to stay in place.
“Why not just a legal civil union which provides you all the “rights” married people have?”
Call me when that happens.
KFG, I have already sent my strong objection to Rick Warren, through http://www.change.gov. That is the only method I know of currently to contact the Obama transition team… IF you know of another route to the transition team, please send me email, and I will send to that contact as well… I am hoping that something will change on this matter, perhaps by the first of next week…. (+)
Come on all you big brave chrisitans. Let’s play bible trivia.
Thank you chas. I dont think you are a bigot.
There are approximately 2,500 prophecies in the Bible.
2,000 of those have been fulfilled.
The bible was written over 1,400 years by 40 different authors.
Grimm’s fairy tales are a collection of stories none which have any prophecy or anything to do with one another.
tap tap tap
still waiting on you all for that bible history challenge.
AmWay — Please to note that ALL marriages currently are legal civil unions. The churches have NEVER issued marriage licenses…
That goes back into medieval Europe as far as I can tell… But the Dominionists what to re-write ALL of religious history in America… We cannot allow that to happen…
“There are approximately 2,500 prophecies in the Bible.
2,000 of those have been fulfilled.”
Says you.
It’s true because you say it’s true?
Come on smart ass. Let’s play. Put your big fucking brain where your big fucking mouth is.
Tautology. The friend of fairy tale believers everywhere.
Heheheh. by kia’s logic, nostradomus must BE god.
“Grimm’s fairy tales are a collection of stories none which have any prophecy or anything to do with one another.”
Ditto for the bible.
Jesus WEPT. A stopped clock is right TWICE a day.
So you don’t believe in any kind of archaeology then?
How’s that fit into your view of evolution?
Come on asswipe. Let’s play fairy tale history trivia.
“So you don’t believe in any kind of archaeology then?
How’s that fit into your view of evolution?”
WTF does THAT have to do with bible history trivia?
Come on smart ass, let’s play.
Ok, I get it. You DONT want to play bible history with me.
Kinda let your alligator mouth overload your tadpole ass?
That would be a NO on you and your fairy tale.
So much vitriol…
wasted too, ain’t do anything here but puffing up their own chests.
You use foul language in reference to me again and I will flame you so bad you will be in tears.
All the facts I stated regarding the Bible have archaelogical basis.
What kind of trivia are you talking about?
Cowards. Typical christians. Big men when you are hiding behind the priest’s robes.
Or under them…
“You use foul language in reference to me again and I will flame you so bad you will be in tears.”
Bring it candy ass.
“All the facts I stated regarding the Bible have archaelogical basis.”
What “Facts” have you stated?
Uh, that would be “none” fuckhead.
But the Dominionists what to re-write ALL of religious history in America… We cannot allow that to happen…
———-
Baloney Chas. If anything, there is a stealth movement to remove all mention of God from textbooks etc… that I would imagine that a man like you who plays a minister would be familiar with.
Chas whatever.
The point is if the bible and the terminology which so many feel is important to their faith - means so little to gays, by all means drop it. Especially since the word “marriage” is just that - a word.
They are fighting the wrong battle in my mind. An unnecessary one.
Drop the insistence on forcing millions to change their beliefs. Instead, focus on garnering the same “legal” rights as those married couples have.
Millions do not see this as a civil rights issue. They view this as an attack on their religious beliefs BECAUSE the gays insist on the word “marriage” applying to them.
Forget about it!
Insist on the RIGHTS (healthcare, SS, Medicare, taxes, visiting/legal) for their civil union as afforded to those married.
Which I fully support. (either by granting the same rights - or doing the greater good and removing ALL special rights for married couples.)
Who didn’t love you enough FG?
Mommy or Daddy?
Fact:
Written over 1,400 years by 40 authors.
“You use foul language in reference to me again and I will flame you so bad you will be in tears.”
Still waiting mr. badass.
Outlander, you can keep the word marriage if that is how shallow your religion is, that it depends on a word.
We are fighting for our civil rights. YOU ALL insist on making it a religious issue.
“Fact:
Written over 1,400 years by 40 authors.”
Proof? Or just because you and the bible says so.
Google tautology.
Come on smart ass. Still waiting on that bible history quiz. And that big bad tear inducing flaming you promised.
Meh. Cowards. See what happens when you accept their “challenge”?
(Crickets chirping)
You got a big bag of nothing.
Kia, there is no battle here on the bible. No debate. No argument will change faith and beliefs.
Nothing will be proven herein.
ksfarmgirl has YEARS (perhaps decades) of anger stored about religion, religious people, and christianity. She has a lot of hurt. (which I’m not attacking or saying is negative - she has a right to her beliefs). But she has spent tremendous energy researching opposing views of anything of a spiritual sense.
All I’m saying is you and she can spend all afternoon filling the weblog with opposing views, back and forth on religious dogma. But at the end of the day, no points will be scored. The Word will still stand and so will Farmgirl.
Believe what you want to believe and I will.
I’m confident in my views and my eternity.
I imagine you are as well.
Best of luck.
My Christian beliefs don’t allow me to say anymore that my worldly self would like to.
“You use foul language in reference to me again and I will flame you so bad you will be in tears.”
Still waiting…
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH.
You think you are going to say something to me that I havent heard before?
“My Christian beliefs don’t allow me to say anymore that my worldly self would like to.”
So that would be a “yes” on you letting your alligator mouth overload your christian ass.
nitwit
#
Mr_Kia
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:47 am | Permalink
So None.
Thanks.
Bigot heal thyself.
___________________________________________
Care to apologize asshole?
Because I met your challenge and you backed down.
Some faith…
OK Regis, how about some kind of fact to back up your fairy tale theory?
Actually, I see The Bible and Grimm’s Fairy Stories as having essentially the same function–to teach people how to live.
“Hansel and Gretel” teaches children that there are people in the world who would tempt you and abuse you for their own selfish ends. It is right and correct to fight back to protect yourself against that.
“Rumplestiltskin” (in which the mother must guess the name of the magic ogre or lose her son) teaches us not to give up even when the odds are hopeless. It also shows us the power of words–simply giving a name to a disease in ordinary medical diagnosis allows treatment for instance.
“Sleeping Beauty” shows the restorative power of love.
And on it goes . . .
What do you want? The fact that it was written by humans, and put together in a pick and choose manner by the catholic church centuries after events supposedly occurred, ought to be proof enough.
But like I said. With you cons, one’s too many and a hundred’s not enough.
And besides, YOU issues the challenge, not me.
But nice try at switching the subject and covering up your own weakness.
I’ll be waiting on your apology for issuing a challenge you pussied out on.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink
“Politics is not life and death to everyone”
Said by a white, straight, christian man. How conveeeenient.
Ask Matthew Shepard about that.
————————————————–
You’re a lunatic.
The difference, captain, is that Grimms was never used to justify slavery, rape, and homophobia among other things. The problem isnt the bible.
It’s the people who use it.
Kinda like, ya know, guns dont kill people, people kill people.
I put the bible and fairy tales at the same level of crediblilty.
You’d just love me to go all Fred Phelps on you wouldn’t you?
Your Gayness is the least of your issues.
“You’re a lunatic.”
Ask Matthew Shepard about that. Or Paul Broussard. Or Gwen Arujio.
The google is your friend.
“You’d just love me to go all Fred Phelps on you wouldn’t you?”
You already have. And I’ve already faced down freddie.
I’m still waiting on your big bad ass whupping flame job you promised.
GOD HATES SHRIMP!
“Your Gayness is the least of your issues.”
At least I’m not a coward.
Still no apology for letting your mouth overload your brain?
Come on kia, let’s play bible history.
#
American_Way
Posted December 18, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
“ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:45 am | Permalink
“How much history of the Bible do you know?”
How much history do you know of Grimm’s Fairy Tales?
It has about the same relevance.”
If the bible is a fairy tale, then why the hell Farm Girl do you guys want to get “married”?
Why not just a legal civil union which provides you all the “rights” married people have?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Her only goal is to get revenge.
It’s not about rights it about I’M MAD AT GOD AND I WANT MY WAY!!!!
dfg,
No one’s making you believe in God. That’s your choice. What right do you have to pollute a traditional religious institution?
I wish you would focus your rants on Islam. You self righteousness would be put to better use.
Kgrrl is right to call out the religious hypocrites.
They know that their interpretation of The Bible cannot stand to justify their discrimination against gays, which is why they wisely refuse to cite chapter and verse.
Jesus said nothing about homosexual relationships. He did say a lot about divorce however, which the “Christians” simply finesse away as “it’s a sin for which I’m forgiven.”
Paul condemned the man who “lies with a man like a woman.” He said nothing about lesbian relationships. Since women really didn’t count for much in those days (”let the woman look to her husband and her husband look to God”), that’s not surprising.
The thing is, Paul not only condemned homosexual relationships, he condemned heterosexual ones too–”let those who can be like me [celibate], but it’s better to marry than to burn.” Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?
-I watched something about the Matthew Shepherd murder the other night. It’s tragic. Fred Phelps is about as hate filled as you far as I can tell.
The perps however in the Shepherd case were just a couple of white trash, criminal pieces of human excrement. Again, not unlike yourself.
Interesting how much you seem to have in common with those you hate.
So if your faith is so big and bad and you are so secure in it, why do you care what I think?
Why do you care if I marry my girlfriend.
Fear. Thy name is….
I havent notice any Islamic laws passed here. Christian laws? Yeah.
When the Islamists give me a problem, I’ll deal with them. THEY are not preventing me from being equal in civil law.
You? Not so much.
Yeah. You think about that revenge you all are cruising for. You think about the hatred for christianity you are fostering.
You think about it.
Except, you’d need a brain to do that. You gave yours up at the church house door.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 11:31 am | Permalink
“Your Gayness is the least of your issues.”
At least I’m not a coward.
Still no apology for letting your mouth overload your brain?
—————————————————-
You are going to refute fact with your own “tautology” that has zero historical evidence.
But hey, we both like to lick box, so we should concentrate on the common ground.
Thank you captain.
And when was the last time queers voted to stop you from worshiping? And the last time you voted to stop us from having equality under the law, kia?
crickets chirping
Do a little reading someplace other than freeperville or town hall. There’s a LOT of anger about rick warren and prop 8.
Be careful what you sow. You’re gonna reap it someday.
“You are going to refute fact with your own “tautology” that has zero historical evidence.”
I see you couldnt google tautology.
And you still havent proven any “facts”. Just what you believe and what your book of fairy tales says.
Come back when you can play with the big kids and not get squashed.
Actually FG on the marriage thing we aren’t in disagreement.
I want the Government out of the marriage business.
Marriage is a religious ceremony and any church wishing to marry homosexuals that is fine with me.
Doesn’t change my personal belief and doesn’t harm me.
Well.
I’ll say what I see.
I don’t see Christians who are worried for others souls.
I see vindictive, nasty, bigoted and self righteous people who want to USE their faith as a weapon against people they are uncomfortable about.
“But hey, we both like to lick box”
you know NOTHING about me.
But that’s always what it comes down to for you, isnt it? Relationships couldnt be about love or commitment or equality under the law.
Nope.
For christians like you, it’s always about “box licking”.
Jesus must be so proud of you.
To give this a historical perspective, JFK didn’t really do much to support black civil rights either until SNCC and CORE and King forced him to.
As FDR once said about a radical new idea, “it’s good . . . now make me do it.”
Political figures don’t lead . . . they follow. You have to “organize for power” (Saul Alinsky) if you want to get anything accomplished.
You are right JR. Their religion is just a thin veil for their own inadequacies. They feel taller if they have their foot on someone else’s neck.
Like a little dick man driving a corvette, they wave that bible proudly.
Heheheh. We see you as you really are.
They’re equal opportunity thugs, the faithful.
It’s just they like picking on minorities because they have them outnumbered.
They are just as mean and nasty to the poor and suffering. Detailed well by Al Franken’s writings about supply side Jesus.
BlueJay sings….
Ya never cared for me. But did ya ever say a prayer for me?
Heh. JR. “I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints”.
I know that song too!
have fun in your sandbox FG and BJ pretending it’s the real world.
gotta head to lunch.
I bet Obama is wondering how he got associated with such wackos that think he owes them doing just what they want. And anyway, Rick Warren is about as mainstream a choice as you could make.
‘Course it isn’t the mainstream that’s throwing a hissy.
“You are right JR. Their religion is just a thin veil for their own inadequacies”
That’s about the size of it. Their faith….elevates them.
That gets them to looking down.
“I wish you [farmgirl] would focus your rants on Islam. You self righteousness would be put to better use.”
Good point donndublin. I’m sure she would - if there were any here to beotch at.
And now I see Capn is fishing for a Christian…..
they want you to take the bait. It’s a game to them.
I will only amplify my point from yesterday.
Specific equality legislation is pending, and has been endorsed by Team Obama. However repulsive we may find this latest hand-holding exercise with extremists, it is once again more symbolism than substance. He has not changed his position, and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Early on, the most important person will not be Barack Obama, but John Conyers.
And it would be a profound mistake to abandon the fight to get such legislation passed, or embrace defeat before the battle has even begun. Remember, it will have to make it out of the Senate before Obama even has a chance to break his word.
KIA intones, “I want the Government out of the marriage business.”
Really? Because the Government has been in the marriage business since about Shakespeare’s time.
Marriage is a contract; hence it falls under contractual law. That’s why a judge, not a priest, decides the divorce settlement and child custody.
That’s why even when one has a “church wedding” the marriage contract is a legal document that must be filed with the local JP’s office or some similar gov’t official.
It’s government–not religion–that has been controlling the institution of marriage for most of America’s civilized history.
I like to think, as an outside observer, that I have a better perspective on the faithful.
It’s so sad. Your faith COULD be such a wonderful boon and help to people. For some, it is.
But by and large, you have selected it as a tool to use to divide and abuse and self justify.
Your ICON is a man who was willing to DIE in defense of his ideals, his right to challenge the status quo. And now you USE him to do the same sort of thing was done to him.
What a shame.
“Good point donndublin. I’m sure she would - if there were any here to beotch at.”
____________________________________________________
They’re hear. I don’t want to say where in order to protect them from wakos who burn churches.
KIA intones, “I want the Government out of the marriage business.”
Capn, you misunderstand. Kia has a rational position on this. Let the churches do marriages. Government does civil contracts. No sex discrimination in those contracts.
On this one, he gets it.
Great dumbass.
But I’ve stated a number of times to rid marriage from the public square in replacement of civil unions.
“Below is a list of major donors to the Clinton Foundation released after concerns emerged over conflicts between America’s interests and Bill Clinton’s international fundraising and business deals if Hillary Clinton is confirmed as Secretary of State in President-elect Obama’s administration.” Foxnews
Greater than $25,000,000
The Children’s Investment Fund Foundation
UNITAID
$10,000,001 to $25,000,000
AUSAID
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Stephen L. Bing
COPRESIDA-Secretariado Tecnico
Fred Eychaner
Frank Giustra, Chief Executive Officer, The Radcliffe Foundation
Tom Golisano
The Hunter Foundation
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
The ELMA Foundation
Theodore W. Waitt
$5,000,001 to $10,000,000
Government of Norway
Nationale Postcode Loterij
Haim Saban and The Saban Family Foundation
Michael Schumacher
The Wasserman Foundation
$1,000,001 to $5,000,000
S. D. Abraham
Absolute Return for Kids (ARK)
Sheikh Mohammed H. Al-Amoudi
Alltel Corporation
Nasser Al-Rashid
Smith and Elizabeth Bagley
The Eli & Edythe Broad Foundation
Richard Caring
Gilbert R. Chagoury
Citi Foundation
Clinton Giustra Sustainable Growth Initiative - Canada
Victor P. Dahdaleh & The Victor Phillip Dahdaleh Charitable Foundation
Robert Disbrow
Dubai Foundation
Elton John AIDS Foundation
Entergy
Mr. Issam M. Fares & The Wedge Foundation
Wallace W. Fowler
Friends of Saudi Arabia
Mala Gaonkar Haarman
The James R. Greenbaum, Jr. Family Foundation
Robert L. Johnson
Howard and Michele Kessler
Michael and Jena King
Lukas Lundin
MAC AIDS Fund
John D. Mackay
Lakshmi N. Mittal
Open Society Institute
Victor Pinchuk
Presidential Inaugural Committee
Princess Diana Memorial Fund
$1,000,001 to $5,000,000
Paul Reynolds
Robertson Foundation
Bernard L. Schwartz
Walter H. Shorenstein
Arnold H. Simon
Bren and Melvin Simon
Amar Singh
Michael Smurfit
Harold Snyder
State of Kuwait
State of Qatar
Sterling Stamos Capital Management, LP
The Streisand Foundation
Suzlon Energy Ltd.
Swiss Reinsurance Company
Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office
The Alix Foundation
The Government of Brunei Darussalam
The Howard Gilman Foundation
The Rockefeller Foundation
The Roy and Christine Sturgis Charitable & Educational Trust
The Sidney E. Frank Foundation
The Sultanate of Oman
The Wal-Mart Foundation
The Zayed Family
T.G. Holdings
The Walton Family Foundation
$500,001 to $1,000,000
AIDS-Life
Malini Alles
Bank of America Foundation
Simon P. Barcelo
Frederick Baron and Lisa Blue
Richard C. Blum
Susie T. Buell and Mark Buell
The Sherwood Foundation
Cisco
Clinton Family Foundation and William J. Clinton
Confederation of Indian Industry
Lewis B. Cullman
Duke Energy Corporation
Elena Franchuk Anti-AIDS Foundation
Global Artists, Inc.
Brian L. Greenspun
Hewlett Packard Company
Patricia A. Hotung
ICAP Services North America
Irish Aid
Walid A. Juffali
Dave Katragadda
Peter B. Lewis
“Sarah Posner writes on TheNation.com:
“Now it has officially gone too far: Democrats, in their zeal to appear friendly to evangelical voters, have chosen celebrity preacher and best-selling author Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama’s inauguration.
There was no doubt that Obama, like every president before him, would pick a Christian minister to perform this sacred duty. But Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service but a bow to the continuing influence of the religious right in American politics. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.”
Yeah outlander. Real mainstream.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 11:38 am | Permalink
Be careful what you sow. You’re gonna reap it someday.
________________________________________________
Heh, heh, heh!
Attack of the killer fairies.
AmWay–
I know that no “Christian” here will take my bait any faster than you’ll take KSgrrl’s.
The Christian religion as it’s practiced today in America is 90 percent tradition and ten percent Biblical. The same can be said of Judaism and I suspect just about any other religion one could find.
The culture defines how the “word” is interpreted.
The joyous Advent season that we Christians are enjoying right now has ZERO Biblical basis. There’s no evidence Jesus was born on the 25th of December. We celebrate this birth at this time simply because pagans celebrated the winter soltice (when the days grew longer again and the nights shorter) at this time.
The disciples and the apostles did not celebrate the birth of Christ at all.
But Christmas is a nice tradition and there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just not Biblical in any way . . .
“Chas” –
I, too, would like a way to raise some hell over the Warren selection. It’s such a tin-ear decision I’m astounded the Obama team okayed it.
“ksfarmgrrl” —
I know you’re not astounded.
And you’re so right on this issue and Obama is, apparently, so wrong.
But I think he is educable. And I believe is enough hell is raised, the decision could be changed. We’ve still got a month and I don’t think Obama is the homophobe you believe him to be.
BTW, at the risk of being accused of dismissing your outrage as a tempest in a teapot, I’m not sure how to work the math of whether Warren giving the invocation is that big a deal, symbolically or significantly.
I got curious and Googled for a while who gave the invocations at Shrub’s inaugurations. In 2001 it was supposed to be Billy Graham but he was ill so his kid Franklin did it. But I couldn’t find a name for who did it in 2005. Do you know who it was?
Does it matter?
I personally object to anything religious interfering with what should be a secular ceremony. “Invocation” and “Benediction” are so un-American (or, at least, non-Constitutional) in the first place.
Maybe it’s a sop to “tradition” or a scrap thrown to the twice-born or, like the opening act of a rock concert, designed to get everyone settled in their seats before the main event. I dunno.
I know you voted for McKinney because you — as with Ralph Nader in 2000 — didn’t see a difference between the to major parties’ candidates. And I can understand that.
But I have to think GLBT issues will get a better shake in the Obama Administration than in any presidency that might have come under McPalin.
I gotta tell you, “ksfarmgrrl,” that my personal take on GLBT Civil Rights is a bit tainted because I simply cannot understand the logic behind the bigotry. I write fiction sometimes. And the key to creating a villain is to get inside of, say, “Goldfinger’s” head… try to figure out why he thinks the world would be better if he was in control. Captain Bligh in “Mutiny on the Bounty” is not a good villain unless he really really believes he’s doing the right thing.
I’ve been working for a couple of years on a script based on the Matthew Shepherd case, fictionalized, but with a lot of Phred Felps’ POV. And, for the life of me, I can’t understand Phred’s thought processes. Hitler and Stalin were sick sombitches, but at least you kinda get a glimmer of what they thought justified their actions.
With the anti-GLBT crowd, not so much.
If the twice-borns started a Rovian campaign to “Ban Dr Pepper!” I’d be in a similar boat. I don’t particularly care for Dr Pepper and if it were banned I wouldn’t care one way or another. If some televangelist made it a cause and it caught on, I wouldn’t know how to confront it. I just don’t get the logic of the case.
I do realize if anyone is unjustly marginalized, anyone CAN be marginalized. And that’s not what I expect from the United States of America. Perhaps we’ll get there.
In the meantime, better is not necessarily the enemy of perfect.
“The joyous Advent season that we Christians are enjoying right now has ZERO Biblical basis. There’s no evidence Jesus was born on the 25th of December. We celebrate this birth at this time simply because pagans celebrated the winter soltice (when the days grew longer again and the nights shorter) at this time.”
Damn Capn! Myself and other posters tried to tell Chas all this LAST December when he went high and mighty on us. I got so many CAP responses I thought the ole boy was going to have a stroke.
Now you post it matter-of-factly and Chas rolls.
But I agree with you! I also was a little surprised by an earlier post you made which sounded a little like a revolution. Something about time to get rid of the two party system? I’m shocked I tell you. I almost choked on a red jawbreaker!
Dismissing warren alienates the middle. Like 80 percent of the voters. Dream on.
donndublin posted December 18, 2008 at 8:13 am
Somebody forgot to tell Cos that it’s almost summertime in Australia.
————–
Somebody forgot to tell donndublin that it’s almost wintertime in the Northern hemisphere.
I, too, would like a way to raise some hell over the Warren selection.
You should see the comments at change.gov.
I sent the transition team a quick note (which will probably be counted rather than read), but nonetheless noted that this selection makes showing good faith to the human equality movement, and the president’s vocal endorsement of such legislation, all that more urgent.
“Drop the insistence on forcing millions to change their beliefs. Instead, focus on garnering the same “legal” rights as those married couples have.”
OK — Try this one on for size…. LAW is not made in this nation based on the religious beliefs of ANY group. ANY group….
Gays being married does not hurt the religious beliefs of ANYBODY… If you and your Church dont believe in gay marriage, then dont do them IN YOUR CHURCH…. Leave the rest of the world OUT of YOUR religious beliefs… Do you think you can manage to not force YOUR religious views on others?? You know, like the First Amendment guarantees??
Rage, no one is admitting defeat or talking about giving up the fight.
But it is important to know who are friends are, and who the enemies may be.
As long as obama supports donnie mcclurkin, kirbyjon caldwell, and rick warren, that puts him firmly in the enemy camp. Conyers? I hope he does a better job on lgbt issues than he did on opposing bushco. Maybe he’ll write a strongly worded letter. Yeah. That’ll help us. I suspect he’ll do nothing to harm us. He’ll do NOTHING at all. Safer that way, ya know?
Remember that all that evil needs to prevail is for good people to do nothing.
And obama is GREAT at doing NOTHING for the lgbt community. He’s already backing off his opposition to DOMA and DADT. I imagine he just “wont get around to it” when it comes to doing something.
Like I said, call me when he actually does something for us, besides elevate the enemy. And doing nothing is not benign.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
donndublin posted December 18, 2008 at 8:13 am
Somebody forgot to tell Cos that it’s almost summertime in Australia.
————–
Somebody forgot to tell donndublin that it’s almost wintertime in the Northern hemisphere.
__________________________________________________
I’m aware of that every time I pay my NATURAL gas bill.
SolDevVB posted December 18, 2008 at 8:34 am
lack of knowledge between climate and short term meterology.
Is it too difficult to understand that weather constitutes climate. Unless you are hansen, then you pick and choose or adjust the weather data to your liking.
——————-
SolDevVB can’t understand the difference between climate and short term weather events.
SolDevVB does not know how to compare anomaly data sets that use different references.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486518
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
MH–
I heard years ago that Fred Phelps had a substantial arrest record for molesting men at public bathrooms.
There’s your answer. Freud called it projection.
Ya know captain, it’s well and good to say we have to organize for power. But without straight allies willing to WORK on our behalf and hold politicians accountable, the task is pretty daunting.
Black civil rights were given a major push by Jewish folks like Goodman and Schwerner. And by white folks like Kennedy and Johnson.
But at least here, it seems that our straight “allies” are content to let obama do nothing and say that at least he isnt proactively harming us.
yet
Chas,
You ignore the obvious. To millions of Christians marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.
Please, continue to swim upstream against the current. It will backfire as it has in California, and over 30 other states.
You could be joining a group to promote equal legal rights for civil unions. Which I believe millions of “so called” christians would support!
Further examining the accomplishments of the Christian faithful, I further shake my head.
You STOLE a holiday that was meant to celebrate hope and renewal on the premise that your NEW use of it would keep hope and renewal as the centerpiece.
But Christmas hope and renewal is now centered on acquisition and commerce. It is the column of the religion of greed.
“You could be joining a group to promote equal legal rights for civil unions. Which I believe millions of “so called” christians would support!”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That sounds like a better idea.
aMwAY… NOBODY IS CHALLENGING THOSE BIGOTED CHRISTIANS IN THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS… JUST TELL THEM TO STOP FORCING THEIR BIGOTED BELIEFS ON OTHERS WHO DONT SHARE THOSE BELIEFS… THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING… YOU ARE IN ESSENCE, PUSHING FOR THE CONTINUING VIOLATION OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…. AND YOU CALL YOURSELF AN AMERICAN???
THE CHURCH HAS NO RIGHT TO LEGALLY DEFINE MARRIAGE… THAT IS RESERVED FOR THE STATE… ALWAYS HAS BEEN…
GOOGLE — DOMINIIONISTS
You have declared war agains religion when you don’t need to. This causes further rift and division as you attack them.
It’s like you see the promised land. But instead of venturing toward it - you thought you’d detour through Modor.
So a battle must be fought. I’m reminded what the valley people found when they killed the mountain people. Turned the stone and looked beneath it.
KSgrrl–
Good point. I agree.
The DemocraticUnderground has a post with 588 recommendations denouncing Obama’s pick.
At the very least, we should get an on-line petition going to send to the President-elect.
I didn’t work my ass off for this man to be disrespected on his first day in office . . .
“THE CHURCH HAS NO RIGHT TO LEGALLY DEFINE MARRIAGE… THAT IS RESERVED FOR THE STATE… ALWAYS HAS BEEN… ”
You ignore the obvious. To millions of Christians marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.
Ho-hum.
“To millions of Americans,” back when I was a kid, the African-Americans’ “traditional” place in the movie theater was the balcony.
It was the “tradition” for centuries that women could not own property (even in nations ruled by a Queen! because that was “traditional,” too).
Denying the same legal status to GLBT couples makes as much sense to me as denying marriage to left-handers. They’re “sinister.”
I suspect he’ll do nothing to harm us. He’ll do NOTHING at all. Safer that way, ya know?
My point, of course, is that it needs to be emphatically driven home, as with FISA (and I’m talking now, not July) that his doing nothing is not an option.
Like it or not, Anything that gets passed has to have his signature on it. And making him feel the heat is, obviously, exactly what I’m suggesting.
It needs to be made clear to him that he owes the human equality community, big time.
I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what alternative course of action you’re suggesting.
“To millions of Christians marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.”
And to millions of others, it’s not. Surveys show that America is split close to 50/50 on the gay marriage issue.
As our less bigoted children come of age, the law will change–but justice delayed is still justice denied.
To millions of Christians marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.
So let them keep their rule. Why do they get to dictate the terms for the church across the street?
American_Way
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm | Permalink
You have declared war agains religion when you don’t need to. This causes further rift and division as you attack them.
=========================================
How in the world do you come up with such a horrible conclusion??? I have not in ANY way declared war on religion… In fact, just the opposite…. The only war I have is when ONE group of religious fanatics wants to force their beliefs on the entire Nation…. which is exactly what is happening when the ANTI-GAY crowd seeks to impose their religiously based definition of marriage on ALL… whether sharing their religious beliefs or not!!!
Pull your head out of the darkness of bigotry, and see the light of equality for all!! Before it is too late!!
“Denying the same legal status to GLBT couples makes as much sense to me as denying marriage to left-handers. They’re “sinister.””
There ya go again, making a mountain where one does not exist.
Did I post against GLBT couples and that they should be denied legal status? NO
I wish you libs would get your support for Gays together with what gays are actually asking for.
FarmGirl told me on this every blog she does NOT GIVE A DARN about being “married”. The WORD was NOT important to her.
Equal rights were (and money/entitlements).
Hank posted December 18, 2008 at 6:19 am
Given:
* the lack of the IPCC-predicted stratospheric heating;
———————-
Hank dazzles the WE Blog yet again with his ignorance.
AGW science predicted stratospheric COOLING not “heating”.
http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/20c.html
Hank, you should learn about AGW science, and read your copy/paste garbage BEFORE you post it
Better choices: Jim Wallis or Jesse Jackson
“And to millions of others, it’s not. Surveys show that America is split close to 50/50 on the gay marriage issue.”
The vote of the people in over 30 states defines marriage. Most of these since the year 2000. So these are not the beliefs of old feeble, or descrimating people. It’s the vote of people who grew up during desegration, the civil rights era, and the learning that provided.
Surveys mean nothing.
“Sarah Posner writes on TheNation.com”. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.”
——-
I bet Sarah hasn’t read “The Purpose Driven Life”.
Chapter one- Page one
“It’s not about you.
The purpose of your life is far greater than you own personal fulfillment, your peace of mind, or even your happiness. It’s far greater than your family, your career, or even your wildest dreams and ambitions. If you want to know why you were placed onthis planet, you must begin with God. YOu were born by his purpose and for his purpose.”
Anyway, other than supporting assassinating the Iranian nut case (which I doubt), those are pretty mainstream positions. Abortion though has claimed many many more lives than the Holocaust so that may not be good comparison.
She also forgets to mention that he is pretty “green”.
“How in the world do you come up with such a horrible conclusion???”
Come on Capn! Maybe not you personally. But read up thread to see some of the horrible things others have posted about religious people. All of them can be labeled, “religious fanatics”.
So there you have it.
Civil unions for all, no distinction for sex. Sane rights for all. Churches do marriages. Government does contracts.
Can I hear an amen?
modor = mordor. Geez and I’m a fan.
“American_Way
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:33 pm | Permalink
…Surveys mean nothing.”
The survey and the vote measured different things.
One does not invalidate the other.
A vote measures how many people of a certain age are willing and able to show up at a polling place on a Tuesday in November and support something.
A survey measures how many people of a representative cross-sampling of a population (if designed properly) support something when asked about it on the phone.
A subtle but key difference.
Amen.
Peace on Earth
was all it said.
“Rage
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:36 pm | Permalink
Civil unions for all, no distinction for sex. Sane rights for all. Churches do marriages. Government does contracts.
Can I hear an amen?”
AMEN!
A survey can be skewered to represent whatever the author desires.
A vote if law.
Survey this:
The people of California CALIFORNIA! (did you get that - California?)
The left coast - get it. The FAR left.
Voted twice to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Recently.
Regardless of a survey.
‘Weather And Climate - Refresher 101‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/weather-and-climate-refresher-101
“The purpose of your life is far greater than you own personal fulfillment, your peace of mind, or even your happiness. It’s far greater than your family, your career, or even your wildest dreams and ambitions. If you want to know why you were placed onthis planet, you must begin with God. YOu were born by his purpose and for his purpose.” — Warren
Drivel
“American_Way
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:41 pm | Permalink
Survey this:
The people of California CALIFORNIA! (did you get that - California?)
The left coast - get it. The FAR left.
Voted twice to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Recently.
Regardless of a survey.”
That does not repudiate my point. They measure different things.
Yea but those with the racists out in record numbers to elect the first black POTUS.
Yeah right, “American_Way” –
“Far left” California gave us Nixon and Reagan and Ahnold and B-1 Bob Dornan, Wally George and Duke Cunningham.
Perhaps you CONs should investigate reality sometime before you parrot your little CON memes a reveal you know nothing you’re talking about.
Farm Girl says God is a myth. What a depressing existence that must be.
I have news for you. God is still here, even if you don’t believe.
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
‘Weather And Climate - Refresher 101‘
Crickets…
LMFAO.
kfg is my baby sister, don’t be mean to her. She’s just testy. She’s fine after a bowl of chili and some ‘Jack.’ :)
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the 2008 Presidential election:
Number of States won by: Democrats: 20; Republicans: 30
Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000; Republicans: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million; Republicans: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2; Republicans: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in rented or government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare…”
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the “complacency and apathy” phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already having reached the “governmental dependency” phase.
Notice that only in the states of Alaska and Oklahoma :All counties were won by McCain/Palin.
The original posting with this information is below this Newsweek article at this link: http://www.newsweek.com/id/163337 .
“Monique_J” evangelizes –
“God is still here, even if you don’t believe.”
If that cooks for you, solid.
But we live in a nation founded on the proposition that one person, or one sect, or one theology simply doesn’t get dibs.
The Constitution of the United States of America quite specifically (by omission) says your belief in a “god” and “ksfarmgrrl’s” non-belief give neither of you an edge in public policy.
You might fervently believe the New York Yankees are the best team in baseball. But your “belief” means nothing when it comes to the post-season.
Re:
okobserver
Posted December 18, 2008 at 1:46 pm | Permalink
When a democracy learns it can vote itself favor, the democracy is living its last days
But alas, Farm Girl’s non-belief in God WILL mean something in the post-season i.e. eternity. I’m not talking politics here.
Mega church — not a flock but a feed lot.
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is looking at “orderly” bankruptcy as a way to deal with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry, the White House said today as carmakers readied more plant closings and a half million Americans filed new jobless claims.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20081218/NEWS03/812180386/-1/nletter02?source=nletter-news
Or: Megachurch, megaflock, passenger pigeon?
MH wrote “But we live in a nation founded on the proposition that one person, or one sect, or one theology simply doesn’t get dibs.”
It comes down to this Monkey. By selecting Warren he wasn’t catering on a specific religion. He was answering to the majority of his audience.
If 90% of the people you invite to a party loves steaks and only 10% liked chicken - what would you serve at your party?
SolDevVB posted December 18, 2008 at 1:38 pm
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
‘Weather And Climate - Refresher 101‘
Crickets…
LMFAO.
————————–
In SolDevVB’s case, the “F” in LMFAO = Foolish.
What’s the “climate” outside today, Sol?
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1866862,00.html?cnn=yes
“But the climate and the weather are not the same thing: we experience only the weather, which is the day-to-day, sometimes hour-to-hour changes of temperature, precipitation, wind and more. The climate, on the other hand, refers to the cumulative average of the weather around us over decades, centuries and longer.”
—————
And is SolDevVB still stupidly trying to directly compare anomaly data sets without adjusting for their different references?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
May God have mercy on us all in the off season i.e. eternity.
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
Crickets….
SolDevVB posted December 18, 2008 at 2:26 pm
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/giss-ncdc-hadcru
Sol,
I think Cos is suffering from post traumatic syndrome after that beating he took yesterday.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:31 pm | Permalink
SolDevVB posted December 18, 2008 at 2:26 pm
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/giss-ncdc-hadcru
____________________________________________________
It looks like one of those extreme religious sites.
“OPEN YOUR MIND” ?????????????????????
crickets…
Do crickets contribute to “global warming”?
donndublin,
Do you stupidly directly compare anomaly data sets without adjusting for their different references, like SolDevVB did?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
All this adjusting data is what got the IPCC as a non-credible source. Artificial data sets that do not reflect the real world.
Poor Regular, like SolDevVB, does not know how to compare anomaly data sets that use different references.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
“Do crickets contribute to “global warming”?”
Only their cute farts.
May our deaths take us to that place we were before we were born — sweet oblivion.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
Poor Regular, like SolDevVB, does not know how to compare anomaly data sets that use different references.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
——————
Neither do you cosmos.
Stop pretending you actually know something.
You are 100 percent cut and paste.
You don’t have the scientific background to understand squat.
Council Hires Layton as City Manager
Date: December 18, 2008
Contact: Communications Team
Phone: (316) 268-4351
Download these documents:
* Robert Layton Resume
* Robert Layton City Manager Contract
Urbandale, Iowa City Manager to begin work on Feb. 2
PhotoThe Wichita City Council announced on Thursday that Robert Layton has been hired as City Manager.
Layton, the City Manager of Urbandale, Iowa, will begin work as city government’s top administrator on Feb. 2, 2009. His contract provides an annual salary of $185,000, a monthly car allowance of $550, a monthly wireless communication allowance of $50, paid vacation, health and dental care benefits as well as reimbursements for relocation costs. Layton’s employment contract, his resume and other details can be found at http://www.wichita.gov.
“It’s a reasonable contract under ICMA requirements,” Mayor Carl Brewer said, referencing the International City/Council Management Association. “We need to get the City Manager on board. The council and the community need to get behind him and support him. That’s in the best interest of this city. There are many challenges and goals ahead, including an uncertain economy and the promise of a greater downtown.”
The Council voted 6-1 to approve the contract; Council member Sue Schlapp opposed the approved contract, citing the salary and severance. She also referenced the troubled economy, budget concerns and Layton’s lack of experience in managing a large and diverse city. But she said “I look forward to welcoming and working with Mr. Layton.”
Last month, the council voted to open negotiations with Layton after a 4-3 vote. He had emerged from a list of three finalists. He was among five finalists who were submitted to the Council by a 17-member City Manager search committee and Slavin Consultants.
Layton, 53, has served as the city manager of Urbandale, a city of 40,000 near Des Moines, since 1984. From 1980-84, he was a senior administrative assistant to the City Manager of Des Moines; and from 1978-1980, he was an intern budget analyst in Kansas City, Mo.
Council members said the close vote reflected the quality of the three finalists who are all experienced public administrators with a deep knowledge of the Council-Manager form of government.
The Wichita City Manager reports to the seven-member Council, oversees 3,100 employees, a $500 million annual budget and a $2.4 billion Capital Improvement Program. The City Manager position has been vacant since Jan. 2, when former City Manager George Kolb resigned. To learn more about Layton tune into City7, cable Channel 7 or visit http://www.wichita.gov.
Wow…looking down through these posts today it is obvious the ‘chicken farmer’ is FREAKED OUT!!!
And I’m sitting here LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF!!!
Thanks farmer for the funny distraction from the depressing stock market and commodity prices.
Regular posted December 18, 2008 at 3:13 pm
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
Poor Regular, like SolDevVB, does not know how to compare anomaly data sets that use different references.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
——————
Neither do you cosmos.
Stop pretending you actually know something.
You are 100 percent cut and paste.
You don’t have the scientific background to understand squat.
—————————————-
LOL! Just compute the mean anomaly for each dataset in a common reference period, and subtract it from the original data.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 4:01 pm | Permalink
Regular posted December 18, 2008 at 3:13 pm
#
cosmos_originally
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
Poor Regular, like SolDevVB, does not know how to compare anomaly data sets that use different references.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/12/open-thread-1217/#comment-486563
——————
Neither do you cosmos.
Stop pretending you actually know something.
You are 100 percent cut and paste.
You don’t have the scientific background to understand squat.
—————————————-
LOL! Just compute the mean anomaly for each dataset in a common reference period, and subtract it from the original data.
————–
ummm,
that would be wrong.
Bush considering “orderly” auto bankruptcy
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9559BGG0&show_article=1
Hum…now that’s interesting. Wonder how that works, an “orderly bankruptcy”?
“And Perino said one of the factors preventing an announcement from the administration so far is that negotiations continue between the administration and the various sides that would have to sign on to a managed bankruptcy—entities such as labor unions and equity holders in addition to the companies themselves.
“In any scenario that comes forward after this decision-making process, all those stakeholders are going to have to make tough decisions,” she said.”
UAW….get ready to deal, NOW!
Regular,
I’m sorry about your recent stroke.
Once upon a time a man appeared in a village and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each.
The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them.
The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He next announced that he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again.
Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it!
The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would buy on his behalf. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers: “Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each.”
The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys for 700 billion dollars.
They never saw the man or his assistant again, only lots and lots of monkeys!
Now you have a better understanding of how the
WALL STREET & AUTO BAILOUT PLAN WILL WORK !!!!
The Obamanation transition team posted a report indicating plans for a $1 Billion bailout of the abortion industry, including a 133% increase in Title X funding for abortions, intended specifically to reduce the black population.
The Susan B. Anthony List has started a Stop the Abortion Bailout campaign for a Senate filibuster.
- - -
Pro-life leaders are demanding a face-to-face meeting with Obamanation to discuss his “plans” to reduce the number of abortions, especially with representatives of pro-life crisis pregnancy centers and mothers who have been physically and emotionally scarred, abused, and exploited by the abortion industry.
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Baltimore, MD police charged Melanie Beth Blevins, 22, with first-degree murder, second-degree murder, and first and second degree child abuse in the death of her infant son, found on October 4 in a garbage bin behind St. John’s Methodist Church, where she trained as a volunteer. The boy was born alive in a church toilet and died of asphyxia caused by submersion in water and being confined in a plastic bag, with some evidence of attempted strangulation.
I believe there will be more parties other than union, company, an stake holders. It’s my understanding any of the suppliers could hold up the bankruptcy (or maybe all of them individually).
Leave it to the repubs to make a mess of a mess.
The armed services report deserves its own thread:
Now, a bipartisan report by the Senate Armed Services Committee has made what amounts to a strong case for bringing criminal charges against former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld; his legal counsel, William Haynes; and potentially other top officials, including the former White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff.
The report shows how actions by these men “led directly” to what happened at Abu Ghraib, in Afghanistan, in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in secret CIA prisons.
It said these top officials, charged with defending the Constitution and America’s standing in the world, methodically introduced interrogation practices based on illegal tortures devised by Chinese agents during the Korean War. Until the Bush administration, their only use in the United States was to train soldiers to resist what might be done to them if they were captured by a lawless enemy.
The officials then issued legally and morally bankrupt documents to justify their actions, starting with a presidential order saying that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to prisoners of the “war on terror” - the first time any democratic nation had unilaterally reinterpreted the conventions.
Today in OpinionThe Pentagon and the torture reportA cheap shot at workers, foreign and domesticBarack Obama’s Internet agendaThat order set the stage for the infamous redefinition of torture at the Justice Department, and then Rumsfeld’s authorization of “aggressive” interrogation methods. Some of those methods were torture by any rational definition and many of them violate laws against abusive and degrading treatment.
These top officials ignored warnings from lawyers in every branch of the armed forces that they were breaking the law, subjecting soldiers to possible criminal charges and authorizing abuses that were not only considered by experts to be ineffective, but were actually counterproductive.
“And I’m sitting here LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF!!!”
See? There it is. Just as I said.
A con not concerned with his faith at all.
Except to use it to inflict pain on others and take sadistic pleasure in it.
You’re some piece of work fella. Maybe a good thing you and I didn’t meet. Somehow, I don’t think we’d talk long before I’d feel the need punch you in the face.
Here is my idea about the auto industry bailout…
lets skip it.
In fact, lets cancel the $350B not yet distributed from the original bailout.
Any money we give the auto industry is just postponing the inevitable. It is too risky of a loan for our Government to make.
Ooops, I put this on the wrong Open. It’s worthy of posting twice!
The poor reindeer MUST stay clear of danger! Steer them well, Santa.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/215/gallery/57332-a57505-t3.html
“You’re some piece of work fella. Maybe a good thing you and I didn’t meet. Somehow, I don’t think we’d talk long before I’d feel the need punch you in the face.”—BlueJay, the BlowJay
You’re losing it again BlowJay, but then you always do….it’s a sign of gross immaturity and the fact that you know you’ve lost again.
Oh, and I’m NOT inflicting pain on anyone. How you or your friend (?) the chicken farmer react to words is totally up to each of you, not me.
Besides, who actually wants to inflict pain on someone, what with your stated need to punch me in the face, oh shiver and shake, but you.
Dream on BlowJay….dream on.
I’m not the idiot caught wasting my time standing around in the cold parking lot after challenging an anonymous blogger to meet there after you got your feathers ruffled a little.
You ought to keep quiet so new comers to the blog don’t find out how childishly naive you are quite so rapidly, though I guess they will soon enough anyway.
It’s not me that’s losing bawksy.
Math obviously aint your strong suit.
I’m not gay. I have NO desire to be married. I’m a live and let live type as to religious people too.
But a person like you for a representative makes me positively DRIVEN to piss on and tear down everything that you hold dear. Not because I have any real stake one way or the other. Merely because I don’t like you and you hurt people.
You tell me. Are things trending YOUR way lately?
That doesn’t look to change either. You and yours, you’re dying out.
Now, I don’t want people someday in the near future to be persecuted for their religious beliefs. But people like you sure will have earned it. You may well yourself live to know what it is to be TRULY scorned and mistreated.
On second thought, I think I’ll join in the effort to hasten that day.
Congratulations!
“You ought to keep quiet…….”
About how I helped everyone see what an empty suit you really are? Not likely. I count that as one of my biggest victories achievable in a forum such as this.
I am worth my word. Yours means nothing.
I am very much against laws being passed to outlaw marriage between LGBT’s. I think it is as wrong as when blacks and whites weren’t allowed to marry each other in some states. But I do understand why Obama invited Rick Warren to provide the Invocation at his inaugural.
Which do you think is the most likely way to win over people to your point of view: enter into dialogue with them over a period of time or refuse to have anything to do with them? I believe that Obama thinks that overtime, people are more likely to open up their beliefs to new understanding if they are shown a better way. There will be some people who are so set in their ways that they will be unreachable; but there will also be persons who begin to realize they are operating out of prejudice and begin to see that they have no right to deny others the same rights all our citizens should have.
Perhaps some would rather just yell at their “enemies” and call them names; but it does not solve the problems of the persons whose rights are denied.
Hmmmmm
I don’t know whether to be troubled or reassured.
Awhile ago, the outrage over the Warren thing was on my TV. Something was said about gay atheists.
My son blurted out, “Hey, gays don’t get to be atheists!”
SO, clearly there is still a teen peer pressure thing working on him against gay people. We will be working on that. I won’t have it in my house without forcing him to defend that position. But the fact that he is SO disgusted with Christians that he would EXCLUDE gay people from being atheists? THAT I like!
I’m a liberal (althoug I’m not “a card-carrying liberal;” I never got a card).
And I’m not Jewish but I’m as inclusive as the next guy (although, looking at the twice-born next guy, I’m probably more inclusive than he is).
I was just wondering if there’s be some open-to-the public event next week marking Chanukah (y’know, the ancient Hebrew celebration of Christmas).
“I am worth my word.”—BlowJay
And that is nothing!
“But a person like you for a representative makes me positively DRIVEN to piss on and tear down everything that you hold dear. Not because I have any real stake one way or the other. Merely because I don’t like you and you hurt people.”—BlowJay
A real happy person there aren’t ya Mr. DRIVEN!
You crack me up anymore BlowJay because I take nothing of yours seriously at all. And the more you rant the less seriously I and everyone else regards you.
Think about it if you are able, I’m at a computer conversing with an idiot….how much damage or hurt can I possible inflict. Get serious, or sober.
BlueJay, your word is worth a lot! And those who value YOU also value your word. Ignore the chaff in life, there is plenty worthwhile. ;-)
“I was just wondering if there’s be some open-to-the public event next week marking Chanukah”
I dont think so. Obama’s new BFF warren wouldnt approve. His new spiritual advisor, ya know? He doesnt like jews. Or women. But hey, he’s reachin out and that’s all that matters.
I want warren to stay on the program. But I think they should also invite Dr. Thomas Robb. Just to keep reaching out to those that disagree, ya know?
And where are melissa etheridge and all the vichy queers to defend this piece of shit president elect?
You all bought him. Now choke on him.
I didnt vote for him in this election. Why would I vote for him in 2012? He’s proving that everything I said about him in the primaries is correct.
Change. Yeah. He and his supporters certainly share one thing with king george and his supporters.
A complete inability to recognize and admit when he’s wrong. He’ll never back down on this bastard warren. Just like he never backed down on mcclurkin.
Like I said. You bought him. Choke on him. And when he fucks over you and yours? I’ll be laughing all the way.
I just saw a post on another thread that reassures me bawks. I won’t bring it here. You go find it.
Let’s just say your future is not bright.
And it may be just me. But I’m getting that there is a lot of ….something in your posts.
Anger? Frustration?
Fear maybe?
If we are as we make ourselves here, I’m comfy. And you?
Could someone please tell me the difference between rick warren and this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Robb
Farmgrrl you go find that post I referred bawks to. It’s on the thread about Warren.
I like being able to share good news with you while I stick it to bawks.
Do you think ever, in a million ass kissings, bigotbawks will donate to obama in 2012? Do you think he or rfl or outie or hank will EVER support anything about obama except his bigotry?
Use THEM to get this piece of shit re-elected in four years. I’m so sure he’ll still be on obama’s side.
“Boxlock20″ –
All of us who find ourselves addressing you know full well what it’s like to address an idiot.”
But here we are, flopping in the back of the boat, giving you the attention you crave.
“BlowJay.”
Ha!
You’re once again reduced to 5th-Grade-level name-calling. (Sorry to offend all those 5th-Graders; but you’ll grow out of it. “Boxlock20,” not so likely.)
He is someone’s GRANDFATHER MH.
Bawks I mean.
I can reduce a grandfather to the verbal stylings of a schoolyard taunt. I feel badly for his grandkids.
Bad for him too. The kids are gonna outgrow him before they get out of elementary school. Some day, they are gonna look at him like something that fell out of a tree.
Awhile ago, the outrage over the Warren thing was on my TV. Something was said about gay atheists.
My son blurted out, “Hey, gays don’t get to be atheists!”
SO, clearly there is still a teen peer pressure thing working on him against gay people. We will be working on that. I won’t have it in my house without forcing him to defend that position. But the fact that he is SO disgusted with Christians that he would EXCLUDE gay people from being atheists? THAT I like!
————
When your son rejects your hate BJ, and starts looking for truth, it would be interesting to see where it leads him. I wish him well. He has a lot to overcome.
Marriage is a religious ceremony…
Only when Elvis is performing it.
“I was just wondering if there’s be some open-to-the public event next week marking Chanukah”
MH — Call any of the Synagogues in Wichita like tomorrow… morning… They can tell you what observances of Chanukah will be open-to-the-public….
MOST of the Chanukah observances are family matters, not part of public worship events… much like Passover….
I hope that helps!!
Rage — IF you’re here… After reading the ANTI-GAY posts all day, I still think one of the unique approaches is that “Freedom of Speech” thing I mentioned before…. Let me know your thoughts, OK???
PeD — If Marriage is only for religious observance, somebody best tell that to the IRS…. Check out the upper portion of IRS Form 1040….
Well see that’s the thing outlander.
I’m reactive with MY hate. Those who get it earn it.
SOME Christians and cons like you and bawks are PRO active in your hate. You hate without reason or provocation.
Nope. I certainly do my best never to hate anyone. I don’t think you will see any demonstrations of it on this blog.
But if you think you see it from me, there is an explanation. It’s called projection.
Just heard on the tube that coleman’s lead has narrowed between 2 to 5 votes, and the State Supreme court has ordered the absentee ballots be counted, (expected to favor Franken) waaaaaah call the wambulance.
Parkay needs some education. Here is education on Title X. Its not abortion.
It’s birth control, healthcare for women.
http://www.reproductiverights.org/pub_fac_titlex2.html
Martina McBride was digitally added in to this track in 2008!!!
You Got to Watch This!
This is a little Modern-Tech
at its finest for this coming “Christmas”
Check it out! .. Click on link below.
http://release. theplatform. com/content. select?pid= 5mCzgDf_lCZ3uKBD kKLY2_dqmD4_ S0yF&UserName=Unknown
Speaker On
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
“But if you think you see it from me, there is an explanation. It’s called projection.”
Because of course, outlander could NEVER be guilty of anything unchristian. It MUST be someone else’s fault.
Pmom, birth control and abortion are all the same to the twice born. Anything to keep women barefoot and pregnant.
Did you see the thing that all women who work for rick warren’s church MUST be supervised by men?
Nice. The Hillary Haters must be so happy with their guy.
Sorry, that link won’t work when used on We Blog.
I will try one more time, but I don’t think it will work.
Martina McBride was digitally added in to this track in 2008!!!
http://release. theplatform. com/content. select?pid= 5mCzgDf_lCZ3uKBD kKLY2_dqmD4_ S0yF&UserName=Unknown
Martina was born in 1966. Elvis died in 1977
It was not fair of me to equate you with bawks there outlander. I withdraw it.
But then, you did accuse me first.
What I teach my son is not hate. It is self defense.
ANOTHER one of your good Christian posters once attacked my kid as a “bastard”. You’ll forgive me for teaching my kid to hate those who would hurt him.
Here, not the same link but this will get you there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8yQLbMtPFA
“SOME Christians and cons like you and bawks are PRO active in your hate. You hate without reason or provocation.”
I don’t “hate” anybody there BlowJay.
But I’m not going to stand by quietly and let your trash degrade society with your culture of death, homosexuality and Marxism, etc., for everybody.
You do as you wish with your life but you don’t exist in a vacuum, and just because you or some of your friends want no limits on behavior, behavior that effects us all, don’t expect the rest of us to just roll over and yield to your deprivation.
Somebody swat that fly in here.
You Monkey,
When BlowJay stops misusing my nic I will consider not misusing his.
Are you so ignorant that you fail to see mine being misused but only see when I do so in kind.
Ridiculous.
heheheh. You cons. It’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault that you are an ass.
“If we are as we make ourselves here, I’m comfy. And you?”
I’m playing with you BlowJay, and it’s fun.
I can post, go away for hours and come back and you are still ranting. What a fool.
“bawks” is appropriate for you bawks.
It is phonetically AND literally correct.
Now that the list of contributers providing money to Mr and Mrs Clinton is known, I am very concerned about Hillary’s ability to serve impartially as Sec of State.
I mean Saudi Araba provided them millions. How can Hillary stand up to the arabs and oil nations who are charging us way too much for oil?
Saudi has openly reported the cost of producing oil is only $4 a barrel.
“I can post, go away for hours and come back and you are still ranting.”
I can show otherwise.
But then I don’t need to. Like I say, I’m comfortable with who I am here.
It wasn’t me standing around in the cold thinking he was going to set someone straight in their thinking….no Blow, it was you.
While I sat at home warm, working, enjoying hot coffee and laughing….at you Blow.
Think about it, whatever you try and make of it, that is what happened.
Do and say what you must to live with yourself, I couldn’t care less, I have two weeks off to enjoy family, friends and a vacation to south Texas. What are you doing jerk….continually blogging a rant at me, Ha!
I thought bigotbawks was at the saturn dealership across town. He sent himself an email to prove something… to himself, I guess. But I thought he had to do that to prove he was somewhere other than home? Hehehh. HAHAHAHAHHA. Home drinking coffee? Indeed.
So.. he really doesnt own a business? He works at the saturn dealership? he lives at the saturn dealership?
Or he cant keep all his lies straight, including where he was when he pussied out on meeting JR.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a maroon.
“It wasn’t me standing around in the cold thinking he was going to set someone straight in their thinking”
Unlike you, I don’t see myself as divinely assigned.
Miracles aint my turf.
Oh and I AM thinking about just who (besides yourself) you left twisting in the wind.
There was Hank. He said he could sell concession if I showed up.
But it was you who punked. And hank never commented again.
Nathan was interested in our meeting too. But, when you didn’t show he had to defend you instead of attacking me.
In fact, no con I have met face to face came to your defense.
That’s “loss” I’ll take any day!
Yeah I’ll revisit that as much as ya like bawks.
SINCE you are a many times many ways busted liar? Well, who can expect the truth from you now?
Maybe you DID show up and found me intimidating and punked out.
Or, maybe you are telling the truth about lying about your intent to show up.
See? YOU left the upshot open to interpretation. I don’t see how you come out of that a winner.
Heh JR. And he wanted me to drive four hours to join the meetup that day. When he says he already had hatched his little plan.
Such a christian….
Remind me. Which church is it that approves of lying?
IIRC, bigotbawks is a lutheran. Just like BTK!
What’s it like to never grow up and remain immature and childish forever there Blow.
I was at home, until I got up, left and got the oil changed, and I was working on their computer, as much as I could laughing like I was at you, and drinking coffee there as well. You were standing out front of a grocery store in the cold thinking who knows what like a dummy.
You aren’t very good at multitasking are you child. Probably accounts for why you are such a failure at everything. Oh I shouldn’t say that, you have a frigging lesie chicken farmer to stand up for you.
farmer, my inviting you to come to Blow’s meetup was an insult to both you and him.
For either of you to even consider going to a stupid parking lot to meet a blogger was asinine.
If it hadn’t a been a drive all the way from WaKeeney I bet you’d a been just a stupid.
I havent noticed any posters here standing up for you, asswipe.
Keep your lies straight next time.
And remind me, which church supports your christian brand of lying?
No bigotbawks. Unlike JR, I dont reach out to nut cases.
Remind me again which church condones your deceit?
Somehow, I think lying is in the ten commandments and all. I dont recall “teaching a lesson” making it ok.
But then, I’m not a big, bad, sanctimonious sob like you.
Dance poodle, dance!
Typical pick and choose religious wacko.
Nobody for you either lesie.
I don’t need or invite folks standing up for me when dealing with swine.
Oh bawks YOU are the gift that keeps on giving!
STILL trying to vet out your story?
For who? The readers? Or yourself?
Ya didn’t show up when you said you would. WHY is anyone’s guess.
“Frigging lesie chicken farmer”?
How very 7th grade of you.
Have another shot and take one.
Hee hee heeeee.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.
What a joke. I said right away it was a bluff and you wouldnt show. I NEVER considered coming. But thanks for playing.
What exactly WILL you do to try and save face? I havent seen any limits yet.
Got to ya again didn’t I lesie….you’re tooooo easy.
Both you and your dumb friend Blow.
Sweet dreams,
A liar and stupid. Care to count how many folks stood up for me today alone?
Not enough fingers and toes for you to do that.
And I wonder, why wont you answer which church says lying is ok?
“I don’t need or invite folks standing up for me when dealing with swine.”
So that would be a “no” on anyone standing up for you. Good thing you dont need it. You are universally scorned here.
Which church allows you to break the “thou shalt not lie” commandment? Or were you just picking and chosing again?
Hey bawks?
PLEASE don’t kick your dog or beat your wife and pretend it is me.
I never considered coming either, but Blow was too dumb to know.
Got to me? HEHEHEHEHEHE> HAHAHAHAHAHA.
The only one “gotten” here is you. In your own “gotchya”.
nitwit
Which church is it…?
I think you are right JR. “he” is drunk.
again.
HEheheheh JR. I bet “he” doesnt have a wife. Or a dog. Or a business.
just words on a page.
Got it bawks. You’re not a punk.
You’re just a liar. Or a coward.
Oh and bawks?
THIS is who you are now and going forward on this forum.
You are the man who wasn’t there. The guy whose word is his own joke? lie? which way is the wind blowing?
It’s almost midnight, REAL AMERICANS for all AMERICANS and another day closer to victory.
We have seen in bawksalot the foot soldier of the far right.
Very little of the soldier in him. And he may as well be a foot tall.
Gawd, Pox, it’s “lezzie,” not “lesie.”
beber,
There are references using both spellings. Certainly ‘lezzie’ is the more common of the two though. I think the point is made using either.
“you hear `faggot’ and `lesie, dyke,’ whatever the case may be.”
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:jK1_XsZuxjoJ:abouthomosexuality.com/its-elementary.pdf+lesie,+for+lesbian&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=20&gl=us
Wow, between ‘BlowJay’ and ‘lezzie’(for beber’s sake) they certainly trip over themselves with rapid fire posts. Very irritated I’d guess, ha.
Bigotbawks. When caught in a lie, he will deny.
Which church condones lying? BTK’s?
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