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329 Comments
In meditation I have been told:
“Wichita will not be here in four years”
Matthew 13:9 “He who has ears, let him hear.”
Ohh nooo you mean the big tall alien man is going to suck up the whole city and take it off into space, on this day when the Earth stands still???
Now playing in a theater near you
It is a beautiful morning in Kakeland!!! My it’s nice out there!!!
Remember those Long John’s
And yes, the orangutan’s whistling is just as annoying as a human’s.
Orangutan’s Spontaneous Whistling Opens New Chapter In Study Of Evolution Of Speech
ScienceDaily (Dec. 12, 2008) — Throughout history, human beings have used the whistle for everything from hailing a cab to carrying a tune. Now, an orangutan’s spontaneous whistling is providing scientists at Great Ape Trust of Iowa new insights into the evolution of speech and learning.
In a paper published in December in Primates, an international journal of primatology that provides a forum on all aspects of primates in relation to humans and other animals, Great Ape Trust scientist Dr. Serge Wich and his colleagues provide the first-ever documentation of a primate mimicking a sound from another species without being specifically trained to do so. Bonnie, a 30-year-old female orangutan living at the Smithsonian National Zoological Park in Washington, D.C., began whistling – a sound that is in a human’s, but not an orangutan’s, repertoire – after hearing an animal caretaker make the sound.
More real science at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081211112004.htm
Next thing you know, the ape will have to take sexual harrasment classes.
Apes have already taken to giving people the middle finger and would drive cabs in New York but their English is too good.
Why America deserves to go down the shitter:
Game consol sales in November.
• Wii – 2,040,000
• DS – 1,570,000
• Xbox 360 – 836,000
• PSP – 421,000
• PS3 – 378,000
• PS2 – 206,000
A nation of drooling fucks. I don’t think I care anymore.
Too old, too old.
We’re a product of our environment…we’ve always been encouraged to buy, buy, buy…and that’s exactly what we do. If the country desends into a depression, many of us won’t survive because we haven’t developed the discipline or resourcefulness of our ancestors. We’ve been spoiled because we’ve had so much without trying too hard.
Beber, video games train our nation to combat zombies. Since we’ve played so many video games the zombies haven’t attacked because they know we are so prepared. So the system works. Would you prefer that we get rid of video games and risk a possible zombie invasion?
If the country descends into a depression, neighborhood associations working together to plant community gardens and support the weakest members could enable us to sail through without a scratch. But it’ll be dog eat dog to the last bone, won’t it? There’s always some asshole that just has to have a Hummer. Did you read this morning that another Wall Street fat cat was arrested after defrauding the public of 50 billion? The chairman of NASDAQ, he was. It’s a nation of sharks running out of prey. I think I’m glad I lived long enough to see this, but I sure don’t want the misery.
Ex-Nasdaq Chair Arrested on Fraud Charge in NYC
NEW YORK — A former Nasdaq stock market chairman was arrested on a securities fraud charge Thursday, accused of running a fraudulent investment business that lost at least $50 billion before he confessed to senior employees it was a “giant Ponzi scheme,” authorities said.
Bernard L. Madoff, his silver hair reflecting the lights of a federal courtroom, was released on $10 million bail secured by his signature and that of his wife. He declined to comment as he walked out of U.S. District Court in Manhattan.
Madoff, 70, the founder of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, maintained a separate and secretive investment-advising business that served between 11 and 25 clients and had a total of about $17.1 billion in assets under management, prosecutors said.
cont’d at:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,465848,00.html
======================
Well duh, I think everyone realizes this now. The greedy bastages in NYC and other financial centers have been deceiving for decades.
Lock them up, make an example out of them.
Yes, Maggot. There was a report the other day in “New Scientist” of a study in which apes were rewarded with ape porn. That is, photos of female ape bottoms. After reading it, I had an intense desire for an orange section and a peanut.
Sorry Maggot, I forgot about the Zombies. My bad.
beber, sometimes I think you are me.
Or some damned thing like that.
Anyway, we think the same way.
what a sick friggin world that goes ape shit over Boy George and Milly Vanilly, but shoots my main man John Lennon in the back.
And it’s not just the stupid games….
how many stupidified kids you see walking down the street with their hood up and their overworked texting thumb just throbbing away on the damned little thing. I hope they get a goddamned blister on their greasy thumbs.
The corporate flucks have turned the whole damned world into a phone booth for our kids.
And another damned thing….
anybody else here think the UAW sucks?
A Senate report has concluded that Bush “America does not torture” and Rumsfeld approved the use of torture.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Senate_report_Rumsfeld_to_blame_for_1211.html
Bush said the torture was a result of a “few bad apples”. Given that it was Bush saying it he probably didn’t know it was he and his corrupt cronies who were the bad apples.
But as with all rich folks they’ll be given a nice retirement package at taxpayer expense as their reward for their constant record of failing.
Yep, bebe, buddy.
You’re right on there chief.
They have bled us so damned dry we ain’t got anything left for them to take advantage of.
But……we do have the gameboy and the cellphone crap to keep us from thinking.
Ah, to hell with it.
Anybody want some eggs and toast?
IHOP or Denny’s??? :-)
“If the country desends into a depression, many of us won’t survive because we haven’t developed the discipline or resourcefulness of our ancestors. We’ve been spoiled because we’ve had so much without trying too hard.”
And Mary, it will be those that have played the grasshopper in the story of the grasshopper and the ant that suffer the most.
In other words primarily the DimLib socialists. Those that fail to achieve yet spend and spend and then want what someone else has worked for and saved themselves.
Their reward is coming possibly, and they won’t like it.
Yep that Eeeevil UAW, where the workers dont want to take a cut in their $28/hr. jobs, while their fellow workers at Toyota and Honda get to hang on to their $30/hr. jobs… Especially, since those Toyota and Honda jobs are in the states represented by those Republican Senators who are howling about the Detroit LOANS….
BTW, that $70/hr. UAW crap has been debunked now at least 3 or 4 times…. so let’s not go down that yellow brick road again….
And while we are at it, people are screaming over CEO’s making $16 Million a year, and then just two nights ago, we hear the really BIG news about how the New York Yankees have signed a pitcher to a $161Million Contract over 7 years???
Where is the outrage over that?? Not to mention the Yankees are also working on another pitcher deal worth $80Million???
A Quarter Billion $$$ for two guys to throw a baseball??? Have we gone NUTS???
“Anybody want some eggs and toast?”
——-
Randle Patrick, Good morning! Did you eat all of the pie yesterday? I had my eye on that last piece of coconut meringue. I’ll settle for eggs and toast — over easy, dry toast please.
Oh, and beber also calls me MsInks, RP! Sound familiar?
RP you admit to being turned on by preteen girls like Beber too huh?
well that explains it, beber’s been known to be a troll for a long time now, doesn’t surprise me in the least that he’s picked up a few more nicks.
http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1017129949136
PMOM,,,,you already know me.
i outed tippy and it pissed you off
right after that you quit responding to anything i wrote.
i’m not even gonna grace this page with anything about somebody else’s fetish…….
this new format would not let me post under the old name.
Well, RP don’t give a crap about your politics and who you want to beat up on here……
As ALWAYS, Chas gets it WRONG.
December 8, 2008
UAW Workers Actually Cost the Big Three Automakers $70 an Hour
by James Sherk
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm
Chart showing hourly expenses of the major three alone with private sector employees.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/images/wm2162_chart1.gif
UAW spokespeople have roundly condemned the estimate of labor costs in excess of $70 per current worker hour. They assert these figures include the cost of current retiree pension and health benefits. They have done so, however, without marshalling evidence to support their case.
The Detroit automakers explain in their SEC filings that their benefit expenses are for current workers, not former employees. This is because they follow generally accepted accounting principles in preparing these estimates. If the figures did include current retiree benefits, the average hourly amount would be much higher than they actually report. UAW employees earn far more than most Americans do. Congress should not tax all Americans to bailout the Detroit automakers in order to preserve high earnings for a few.
Pre-teens are beautiful and turn me on.
Boxlock, you know who pays for the pensions? It’s the auto workers. The auto companies reinvest the pension money and make a profit from it.
You know the thing about retirees, they aren’t working. So to say that they are making $70 an hour working at the plants is absolutely absurd. But leave it to conservatives to lie to get their point across, they can’t deal with the facts.
But, by all means, include the billions of dollars of social security on your tax forms if you honestly think the amount retirees make should be reflected on your income.
Gawd, I’d forgotten all about Tippy. Where’s Craptor, btw.
Boxlicker, it’s too damned early or you to be drinking that LYING Kool Aid…. Give it a rest, and do some REAL research before you start in with your normally stupid snarky remarks…. You gonna get this one handed to you on a platter if you keep this up….
It’s been debunked, as I stated, at least Three or Four times already!!! I am NOT gonna debunk it just for your DumbA$$ benefit!!
Tippy never commented here.
That was another blog.
Sorry beber.
Maggot,
The fact remains, the auto companies are going through this because they are spending more in wages and total compensation benefits than they can make selling cars.
The ‘laws’ of economic reality can’t be denied forever and now those undeniable laws are exerting their influence and things are going to have to change, UAW or not.
The auto companies can not be competitive and continue to offer wages and benefits so in excess of the rest of the U.S. economy and the rest of world.
also bebe…..if you think ceiling fans and light bulbs are a turn-on, still none my business.
Because you can’t Chas, ha.
I see you offer no references except your own opinion which as you should know is worthless to me and most others reading here.
Why no threads on the “Alex” series currently running?
Doesn’t have the proper Bush spin for the Weblog?
Reality so much different than fiction.
So to say that they are making $70 an hour working at the plants is absolutely absurd.
The hourly rate does not include retirees. Read the link.
The Reverend strikes again.
JERAMIAH WRIGHT: Today is December 7th, the day that this government killed over 80,000 Japanese civilians at Hiroshima in 1941, two days before killing an additional 64,000 Japanese civilians at Nagasaki by dropping nuclear bombs on innocent people.
“Tippy never commented here.”
—–
Sure she did! Just not as “Tippy.”
Oh that blog, I got kicked off. A badge of honor.
“Why no threads on the “Alex” series currently running?
Doesn’t have the proper Bush spin for the Weblog?
Reality so much different than fiction.” — Mr._Kia
——
What about that series causes you to ask, “Reality so much different than fiction?” I haven’t read anything online, only what has been printed in the newspaper, but don’t see anything yet that changed reality for me. bush’s useless and needless war hasn’t been supported in any way I’ve read.
What is your reality and what do you see as the fiction that the series has disproved?
If beautifully designed, lighting is a turn on. This all stems from an argument long ago, in which I said that a ten-year-old girl riding a bicycle was graceful and beautiful and that turned me on. Of course, people like p.m., who’s minds are completely tamped to the top with filth took that to mean I was sexually turned on by pre-teens, when what I meant was that I was turned on by beauty, no matter where I found it. The phrase “turn on” has broad meaning. I only get a woody if they have large hooters.
Capn wrote yesterday:
“Here are the names of the American soldiers who died for CON lies just since the immensely successful “surge”–”
American Way writes today:
Here are the names of the US Senators who voted to send our American soldiers to fight the Iraq War:
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress – 2nd Session
Vote Number: 237 Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM
Measure Number: H.J.Res. 114
Measure Title: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
In the House, 81 Democrats joined Republicans in approving the War in Iraq.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml
“Majority Leader Tom Daschle announced he will support Bush on Iraq, saying it is important for the country “to speak with one voice at this critical moment.”
Daschle said the threat of Iraq’s weapons programs “may not be imminent. But it is real. It is growing. And it cannot be ignored.” However, he urged Bush to move “in a way that avoids making a dangerous situation even worse.”
American Deaths/In Combat
Since war began (3/19/03): 4209 3397
American Wounded Official Estimated
Total Wounded: 30852
Latest Fatality Dec.4, 2008
Page last updated 12/10/08 11:50 pm EDT
American military do not die for “cons” or “libs” in my humble opinion.
Stand facing the flag recipient and hold the folded flag waist high, with the straight edge facing the recipient. Lean toward the flag recipient and solemnly present the flag to the recipient.
Each service uses slightly different wording for the presentation:
Army: This flag is presented on behalf of a grateful nation and the United States Army as a token of appreciation for your loved one’s honorable and faithful service.
Navy: On behalf of the President of the United States and the Chief of Naval Operations, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one’s service to this Country and a grateful Navy.
Marine Corp: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one’s service to Country and Corps.
Air Force: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Department of the Air Force, and a grateful nation, we offer this flag for the faithful and dedicated service of (service member’s rank and name).
Coast Guard: On behalf of the President of the United States, the Commandant of the Coast Guard, and a grateful nation, please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one’s service to Country and the Coast Guard.
Chas,
I well realize that the UAW workers don’t earn $70+ in wages, and not even in wages and the terrific benefits package they receive.
I realize that the $70+ includes retire benefits. But the FACT REMAINS, the total compensation package, including retirement benefits, is excessive and simply unsustainable long term. And now they are suffering for past excesses, and rightfully so.
They UAW members need to fund their own retirement just like the rest of us.
Here, Boxlicker… Right straight from the UAW Web site…. You still gonna say I dont know what i stated earlier??? Both you and Sol need your heads examined…. Clean out the cobwebs….
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
Add to this, last night’s MSNBC Countdown program, where Keith Olberman ALSO pointed out your ridiculous claim of $70/hr… and showed Toyota AND Honda workers making $30/hr. NOT including benefits….
http://www.msnbc.com/countdown
lindainks55
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:04 am | Permalink
What is your reality and what do you see as the fiction that the series has disproved?
————————————————–
From today’s part six is just the latest.
Bob felt panic rising. But he could tell, and he thought Bush could see also, that Gloria had melted. She had read for years now that Bush might be an inarticulate and unfocused goof; she could see he was none of those things.
“I realize that the $70+ includes retire benefits.”
Should have read, ‘I realize that the $70+ includes retire benefits, or as some claim’.
So, mr. Know it All(I mean nothing) — just what sort of Pension plan do you think those UAW workers have???
Have you ever noticed when Democrats are in power, it’s always America dropped bombs or the United States dropped bombs. It was never Harry Truman, it was America dropped, or America did whatever. America put Japanese in interment camps, not FDR. America boycotted the Olympics, not Jimmy Carter. But it was Bush who attacked Iraq; it was Bush who put people in Gitmo; it was Bush who authorized torture; it was Bush ect. When Larry Craig and Ed Stevens were in hot water the MSM delighted in letting us know they are Republicans but they barely mention the fact that Blago is a Democrat. When questioned why they point out that Republicans are hypocrites but with Democrats it’s just politics as usual.
Chas, my nic is Boxlock20 or just Boxlock or even just Box. Are you so infantile as to get enjoyment out of being crude.
I guess so, and it speaks quite badly for a preacher, even a faux preacher.
Take a lesson moron.
Yep… thats what I thought… Since you know nothing of the Pension plan of the UAW, you attack with even more dumb stupid ad hominems… You stop LYING about who I am, and what I do, and I MIGHT consider using your proper nic…. If not, forget it!!!
Now — What kind of a Pension plan do you think the UAW workers have???
chas,
Your link betrays itself –
In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor.
The CEOs of Chrysler Group, Ford and GM earned a combined total of $24.5 million in salaries, bonuses and other compensation in 2006.
Why did they only factor in straight time pay for the workers? They added bonuses and other compensations for the officers. Why didn’t they add in holiday pay, overtime pay and benefits for the workers.
Even you can’t be that dumb to not see the bias. Maybe that is asking too much of you though.
Maggot,
So Bonnie is just now turning into a human? If evolution happened billions of years ago, why is she still an orangutan?
Even if the package were $70 an hour, a car takes 20 hours to assemble. That’s $1400 worth of labor per car. The whole goddamned question is irrelevant. Now then add managerial compensation/perks/stock options to that, and you might have an argument that G.M. employees are over-compensated.
Duhhhh Sol — The CEO’s arent included, because — wait for it —
THEY ARENT PART OF THE UAW WORKERS PAY SCALE!!
MY LINK DOES NOT BETRAY ANYTHING!!!! GET SOME COFFEE, AND READ IT AGAIN!!! GEEZ!!!
Just as relevant, Monique, is why does your tinky still stink?
Chas, be careful accusing others of what they know and don’t….you have shown countless times you know very little about most everything, and are unfortunately very crude in expressing your lack of knowledge.
Well, off to work, got a 80+ mile drive to go for an inservice I have to give.
Sunny day!
Chas,
You ignorance is amazing.
How much are current UAW auto industry wages?
In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor. Between 2003 and 2006, the wages of a typical UAW assembler have grown at about the same rate as wages in the private sector as a whole – roughly 9 percent. Part of that growth is due to cost-of-living adjustments that have helped prevent inflation from eroding the purchasing power of workers’ wages.
What is the compensation for auto industry executives?
The CEOs of Chrysler Group, Ford and GM earned a combined total of $24.5 million in salaries, bonuses and other compensation in 2006.
“beber” channels William F. Buckley –
“…is why does your tinky still stink?”
Really thoughtful CONservative thought there, “beber.”
Par for the course among CONs in this forum.
beber and Chas, you both, and I include anyone else that wants to chime in, the fact remains and is irrefutable, the auto manufacturers are going broke and things are changing.
Certainly one of those things is the compensation package of all involved, and the UAW represents the largest numbers.
Arguing the justification of UAW wages and benefits is like arguing against gravity, boys…it ain’t going to fly anymore. The gravy days are over irregardless of what you like or not.
And the last nail in your coffin, dipshit, from your own link…
In addition to regular hourly pay, the labor cost figures cited by the companies include other expenses associated with having a person on payroll. This includes overtime, shift premiums and the costs of negotiated benefits such as holidays, vacations, health care, pensions and education and training. It also includes statutory costs, which employers are required to pay by law, such as federal contributions for Social Security and Medicare, and state payments to workers’ compensation and unemployment insurance funds.
It’s all well and fine for people to support the unions and the UAW – as long as it’s not MY dime supporting them.
Just as the government is clamping down on CEO’s and management, now that MY dime is supporting them, they have every right to claim down on the workers.
Government control is all inclusive.
But for me, I don’t want MY dime supporting the thugs and bullies in the union.
I wonder why he didn’t say, “No, it wasn’t me”?
“President-elect Barack Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, refused to take questions from reporters this morning about whether he was the Obama “advisor” named in the criminal complaint against Gov. Rod Blagojevich.”
The auto manufacturers who are going broke include many of the foreign auto makers. Honda and Toyota stock tanked 10 percent this morning, according to NPR.
What we may be seeing is a paradigm shift. It may be Americans are getting to the point where they would do anything to avoid driving. Think of it. Ridding ourselves of the automobile would be the best thing that ever happened to the country. We could live in our cities again. Walk to the corner to buy some milk, see a movie at the neighborhood theater without having to drive 50 miles to the Megaplex. etc.
Well, American Way, your dime supports the auto makers in the South, yet you seem fine with that. The tax breaks given to attract those businesses dwarf any thing mentioned so far to save the auto industry.
“Americans are getting to the point where they would do anything to avoid driving..”
Not since gas prices came down.
You want to see greener cars? You want neighborhood shopping? Raise the price of gasoline to $5 a gallon.
“The tax breaks given to attract those businesses…”
Weren’t those State tax dollars? I don’t know.
Yep thats right Sol…. And it still holds their hourly wage to $27 – $33/hr. Anything else you want to point out that the UAW has wrong??? Remember, it’s not MY web site….
Yet, you seemingly have a daily penchant for attacking the poster, instead of refuting the damned link…. eh???
Now, since Boxie cant seem to answer my rather direct, and unambiguous question, maybe YOU can, in your self-proclaimed wisdom:
What kind of Pension plan do you think the UAW workers have??
ALSO: Since the Toyota and Honda autoworkers make $30/hr. NOT including benefits… it would appear that the UAW folks would need to get a pay INCREASE to match their fellow auto workers at Honda and Toyota….
Most interesting how the facts show the lies told by those Republican Senators yesterday…
All they want to do is Bust a Union… Thats all they have ever wanted…
Oh no Beber: I am an equal opportunity tightwad:
I DON’T WANT MY MONEY STOLEN TO SUPPORT ANYONE!!!
You know that.
Did ya ever notice?
The people who are against unions and worker rights are the SAME folks who are little flunkies and toadies?
DAMN but card check is gonna be good for this country.
As we continue to follow the Foxwoods Casino and Resort story in Connecticut, the National Labor Relations Board has ended its trial over the validity of the unionization drive as of yesterday.
Center to Foxwood’s argument in the case is the harassment and intimidation tactics it says independent-minded employees endured by United Auto Workers (UAW) union organizers.
TheDay.com covers the story:
Diane Weaver said she was surrounded in an employee cafeteria by a group of 10 to 15 union supporters, who shouted at her. Weaver, a table game dealer for five years, testified that one person called her “stupid” and another threatened to beat her.
One dealer even testified against Bob Madore, the director of UAW Region 9A, after receiving these intimidating threats:
Debra Beebe, a dual-rate dealer for almost 15 years, said she attended a union meeting held the week before the election at the union hall in Norwich. At it, she said, “Bob” spoke and told those in the crowd the union would know who voted “no” in the election and that if those individuals filed grievances, there would be a way for the union to “retaliate.” Beebe testified that she heard Bob say that if someone who was anti-union filed a grievance, the person’s paperwork would be shoved to the bottom of the stack.
If you disenfranchise all of the auto companies retirees of their retirement, just think how many you’ll move from retirement to welfare, and unemployment, assuming many are not old enough for S.S.
They will either become impoverished, or be forced back into a constricting labor market. You’ll pay one way or the other.
Laborers’ International Union of North America Local 79 union thugs are back at it again.
New Jersey residents Joseph Chetrit and his family have been targets of a LIUNA union intimidation campaign for weeks.
Chetrit explained that union militants “have been abusive and confrontational to his family” after they placed the infamous 15-foot inflatable rat outside his home. In what they described as going through a “gauntlet” to leave their own property, Chetrit and his family (including his wife and their four children) cannot even walk to their synagogue without fear for their safety.
Sadly, one of Chetrit’s children is seeing a counselor as a result of the union’s ugly intimidation campaign. Meanwhile, a judge agreed with Chetrit that “[i]t is the hostile placement immediately adjacent to the home, towering over the sidewalk, directly facing the home, with the rat’s claws and teeth bared, that creates the intimidating and menacing effect.”
NorthJersey.com has the full story here.
Although I suspect that the decline in driving has somewhat reversed itself, the NPR reported this morning that even while gas prices continued to decline, so did driving. The figures weren’t new enough to reflect prices today though. I go weeks without driving.
American_Way
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:38 am | Permalink
It’s all well and fine for people to support the unions and the UAW – as long as it’s not MY dime supporting them.
==========================================
So, tell us, AmWay — Did you feel that way when Reagan and Co., LOANED Chrysler the money to stay afloat back in the 80’s?? Or, maybe you were too young to vote then???
C’mon, tell us why that was OK under Reagan, but not OK now???
donndublin posted December 11, 2008 at 6:17 pm
This old as dirt theory is: THE NATURAL CLIMATE/WEATHER CYCLE.
———————–
So “NATURE” is releasing huge amounts of CO2, by burning coal and oil in our power plants, vehicles, etc? “NATURE” is clear-cutting forests, and causing other land-use changes? “NATURE” has released huge amounts of methane, by raising livestock, drilling for nat gas, etc? “NATURE” produced and released CFC’s?
__________________________________________________
CLIMATE/WEATHER CYCLE = CLIMATE AND WEATHER cycles
Cos,
Are you saying that there are no NATURAL CO2 emissions?
The first politician who recognizes that the age of the automobile is over has my vote. The way to revitalize the country is to scrap it altogether. Remember when we had local industry: what destroyed that?
The threat of union violence continues to plague hard-working Americans across the country.
A story published in Alabama’s Times Daily highlights a rare instance where a judge actually issued a restraining order against a union. This recent incident involves North Alabama Building and Construction Trades Council and International Association of Machinists (IAM) union militants who targeted employees (and members of the Steelworkers union) who returned to work during a strike. At least one union militant dove onto a car entering the Wise Alloy worksite:
“…the employees attempted to return to their jobs Tuesday morning. Wise officials said Steelworkers union employees were being intimidated at the employee entrance to the plant by employees who are still on strike.”
“Wise officials also reported, however, that a former employee, who was demonstrating in the picket line, dived onto the hood of a vehicle that was entering the plant.”
Of course, it is common for union militants to ignore restraining orders in the rare instances they are issued.
If you or someone in your family has been a victim of union violence or intimidation, call the Foundation toll-free at 1-800-336-3600 or write to legal@nrtw.org and ask to speak with an attorney.
“SolDevVB” sips the Kool-Aid and rants about –
“…the costs of negotiated benefits….”
OMG! “Negotiated benefits?!
Who the hell did they negotiate with?!
Oh, yeah.
The suits in the private jets.
The execs who are whining about not getting their $15 Million dollar bonuses for being bad negotiators, bad marketers, bad businessmen and -women.
Before the GOP Senators scotched the deal — fueled by a purely philosophical hatred for labor — the UAW acquiesced to a phased-in salary structure; they called Mich McConnell with a new pay and bennies package that would evolve over 2 years. Greedy, slimy Republic Party Senators then switched the deal and demanded all concessions be duped on workers in 2009.
Even (The Big) Dick Cheney warned the GOP was heading the nation into “Hoover Time,” by their irresponsibility.
Union officials are threatening nurses in Pomona, California, with fines, arrests, and jail for refusal to walk off the job during a union ordered strike early in October. Right to Work attorneys helped a nurse challenge this coercion earlier this week at the National Labor Relations Board.
While we are attacking people, here is a group I don’t like.
Military retirees.
These people live for 20 years on the public dime and THEN they get a pension until they die WHILE they pursue a second career.
I say they do their time as long as they want and cut ‘em loose.
“Laborers’ International Union of North America Local 79 union thugs are back at it again.” [AmWay]
And this has what exactly to do with the UAW and the Detroit Three???
C’mon, you can do better than that, surely!!!
You’re starting to sound like parkay now… LOL
And it still holds their hourly wage to $27 – $33/hr.
Dipshit,
I used the information from the link you provided. Even bolded the bias. Pointed out where the $70 per hour figure comes in. But you are still too dumb to figure that out. Does being that dumb hurt?
Yet, you seemingly have a daily penchant for attacking the poster, instead of refuting the damned link…. eh???
Uhm, yeah. About that. I cut and pasted from your link dipshit.
ALSO: Since the Toyota and Honda autoworkers make $30/hr. NOT including benefits… it would appear that the UAW folks would need to get a pay INCREASE to match their fellow auto workers at Honda and Toyota….
LMFAO. OK that one is just too retarded to even address.
Most interesting how the facts show the lies told by those Republican Senators yesterday…
Since you are still too ignorant to understand the facts, dipshit, who are you to say?
So let them go down the tubes. The automobile was a horrible idea from the start. They’ll bring down the foreign manufacurers too, as all depend on the same supply chains, and that in turn will destroy those Southern senators hawking their bilge on CNN. Tough times, but revolutions always are; but who could see that Bush will go down in history as the greatest maker of revolution in history.
Chas,
Of course I was against bailing Chrysler as well as the increased national debt during Reagans years.
The republican Gawd is no better than the democrats to me.
Hope everyone is doing well and in good health. I’ve had some ‘puter issues so have been away for a while.Today is a great day for me,I’m very fortunate that at 2 this afternoon I will be a witness to my son achieving his dream when he is presented his badge as a member of the City of Wichita Fire Dept.
“So let them go down the tubes.”
Beber it’s like the Phoenix.
Out of the ashes a new industry will grow. A more efficient, leaner, and greener one.
Look at the rust belt and the steel industry. Nope. Not what it was “back in the good old days”. But nothing usually is as good as we fondly remember them.
Hey I got it…. Let’s demand the arrest and conviction of every NFL player in the country, for dog fighting….
Shoot, after all, Michael Vick did it… That means the rest of them must be guilty too!!
Stop your stupid insinuations now, AmWay, before you get out of hand!!! Ooops… too late… you already are!!
BlueJay
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink
While we are attacking people, here is a group I don’t like.
Military retirees.
These people live for 20 years on the public dime and THEN they get a pension until they die WHILE they pursue a second career.
Do you feel the same way about police and fire dept retirees? After all their pay comes from the “public dime” as well
I say they do their time as long as they want and cut ‘em loose.
Sorry still having issues with this thing.
Blue Jay,
Do you feel the same way about retired police and fire fighters,after all their pay is on the “public dime” as well
donbud is now copy/pasting his own crap,
since everybody else scrolls down to actual content.
good morning Ms. Inks
Congrats Freebird and welcome back
Do you feel the same way about police and fire dept retirees? After all their pay comes from the “public dime” as well
Egads! School teachers Blewjay?
A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
In all fairness, did they also demand a pay cut for the officers?
School teachers don’t do 20 years and out.
“Of course I was against bailing Chrysler as well as the increased national debt during Reagans years.” [AmWay]
Well, well…. Now see here… This is exactly why you people are so VERY wrong!!
Apparently, you dont know the difference between a bail out, and a LOAN…. The LOAN means the auto makers, like Chrysler years ago, will be paying the money back…. Thus, it is NOT a bail out, like the AIG, and the big banks….
I repeat: This is a LOAN being sought… NOT a freebie handout….
So, what you are doing, in reality, is pushing for discrimination based on the industry involved in applying for a LOAN… while the insurance people and the giant bankers walk away with handouts….
Now, suppose you talk about LOAN funds vs. corporate bail out???
“Do you feel the same way about police and fire dept retirees? After all their pay comes from the “public dime” as well”
Typically, you people are confusing public and private.
The treasury department announced today it would rescue the auto industry from bailout funds.
“School teachers don’t do 20 years and out.”
They do 5 years, get married, have a baby, then get out.
Chas,
RE: Regular already educated you on this.
Refer to his “as in bail out of an airplane” post.
Of course we know it’s a loan.
Why RISK my money in a loan? It’s the same thing to me.
Nothing with the big 3 will change with government interference. Hell,it’s government interference that helped them fail.
Union organizers launch corporate smear campaign against Toyota
“The UAW is telling us that they won’t file a petition for an election until 50% + 1 of TMMK Team Members have signed union authorization cards.
This doesn’t make sense! They know that they could call for a National Labor Relations Board certification election a cards signed by 30%. They claim to already have more than they need.
They also know that if they only get 50% signed cards they will lose the election. They had 70% signed cards at the Nissan plant in Smyrna, Tennessee back in 2001, mostly achieved through HITs (Harassment, Intimidation, Threats) and lies, just as they have done here at TMMK. The team members at Nissan voted down the UAW by a 2 to 1 margin. According to a professor at Cornell University the union needs to have 70% signed cards to have a 50/50 chance of winning an election.”
“A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.” [Fleettie]
Yikes Fleett!! Are you not aware that the current Union Contract was negotiated THRU 2011?? WHY would the Republicans want to openly ask workers to break a valid contract??
REMEMBER: The auto makers are asking for a measley $14 Billion in LOAN funds… not handouts….
Your turn….
“The treasury department announced today it would The treasury department announced today it would rescue the auto industry from bailout funds.
Do you mean “The taxpayer” would rescue the auto industry from bailout funds. That leaves the Libs out.
they could have gone on building cheap death machines forever, eh, Americans Pay?
The secret ballot:
So, what’s the point? Why 50% + 1?
In recent years organized labor, realizing that it will lose a secret ballot vote on union representation, has resorted to what they call “card check” elections. They get cards signed by 50% + 1 of the employees and then demand recognition on the basis of the signed cards, rather than allowing employees to vote by secret ballot.
This is a dirty, underhanded tactic because unions use all sorts of tricks and intimidation to get people to sign cards who would never vote for a union if they had a secret ballot. That’s why unions lose so many elections where they file petitions with a majority signing cards.
How many Team Members who don’t want the UAW have signed cards because the VOC told them that it was “just to have an election?”
How many Team Members who don’t want the UAW have signed cards just to put a stop to the constant harassment from union supporters?
Maybe the real point to 50% + 1 is that the UAW intends to demand recognition on the basis of signed cards rather than to petition for an election. “
“Are you not aware that the current Union Contract was negotiated THRU 2011??”
Only bad parasites kill the host.
Monkeymaggotpunkhawk — When the libs think you are a con, and the cons think you are a lib, you are on the right track. — Confusionus.
AmWay — Regular is, as always full of S*it!!
And wrong as well….
#
BlueJay
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink
While we are attacking people, here is a group I don’t like.
Military retirees.
These people live for 20 years on the public dime and THEN they get a pension until they die WHILE they pursue a second career.
I say they do their time as long as they want and cut ‘em loose.
==================================
That’s because for the most part, the military is comprised of younger people.
One has to maintain fitness and health in excellent condition. Running five miles every morning before work (duty) wasn’t my idea of fun, but it was necessary to maintain the standard.
The pension military gets isn’t a full pension it is a partial pension of their basic pay.
At twenty years, one can receive 50 percent of their basic pay.
Retired pay does not include housing or subsistence pay, hazardous duty pay – just basic pay.
So, if you were to retire on active duty let’s say making $4500 a month, but only $2400 of that was basic pay, you would receive $1200 a month in retirement compensation.
You don’t get the full amount of your pay when you retire, just a portion of basic pay.
“UAW defends 50 percent wage cut for Chrysler workers
By Jerry White
24 October 2007
In its effort to push through a contract with Chrysler LLC, the United Auto Workers union has sent an email to its members defending its agreement to cut the wages of future workers in half.
The introduction of a two-tier wage scheme—which will reduce wages for tens of thousands of new-hires from $28 to $14 an hour and eliminate for these workers company-paid pensions and retiree health benefits—has provoked widespread opposition from auto workers and contributed to massive “no” votes in major union locals.
The email, sent by seven members of the union’s Chrysler Negotiating Committee, urged workers to support the deal, which they claimed would support the pay, health care and retirement benefits of current workers, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Opponents of the deal had spread “much misinformation” about the two-tier wage system, the memo said. Rather than a step back for the union, the UAW officials insisted, the provision will help preserve union jobs.
The unstated—but entirely false—premise of this letter is that what is good for the UAW (preserving “union” jobs) is good for auto workers. In fact, as the current Big Three contracts underscore, the union does not represent the interests of the workers who are compelled to pay dues into its coffers. Rather, it represents the interests of a bureaucracy that is hostile to the interests of the workers. Maintaining the dues base of the UAW is good for the bureaucracy, but it in no way benefits the workers.”
I did have a stray thought last nite… Since Treasury has already handed hundreds of billions to the banking folks… Why dont those banking folks now make the LOANS to Chrysler, GM, and Ford?? That might make some degree of sense….
However, if Paulson will make the loans from the Treasury funds, then all will turn out right after all….
#
bth
Posted December 11, 2008 at 6:31 pm | Permalink
We scientists are very familiar with these cycles.
____________________________________________________
Ben,
Yesterday you mentioned several natural phenomena that may or may not effect the earth’s climate. There are probably many more than you mentioned and some that have not even been discovered yet. Why are you focused only on man’s minute contribution?
#
Chas
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink
AmWay — Regular is, as always full of S*it!!
And wrong as well….
====================
Evidently, the U.S. Senate agrees with me and are calling for the same conditions I wrote about.
ALSO: Since the Toyota and Honda autoworkers make $30/hr. NOT including benefits… it would appear that the UAW folks would need to get a pay INCREASE to match their fellow auto workers at Honda and Toyota…. _ Chas
————–
Well, if that were true, then why in the world would anyone want to belong to a union? For the lower wages? Maybe they have a good Christmas party.
#
RP_McMurphy
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:00 am | Permalink
donbud is now copy/pasting his own crap,
since everybody else scrolls down to actual content.
good morning Ms. Inks
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That was a post that Cos posted yesterday. Sorry I missed the first part of the post Murph.
“beber” resorts to name-calling with –
“Monkeymaggotpunkhawk”
And if all the smart kids have you pegged for an idiot, you ought to pay attention.
“At twenty years, one can receive 50 percent of their basic pay.”
Don’t forget the changes for “high 3″.
On nevermind. Why confuse Blewjay?
He is typical anti-military anyway.
Well, folks, errands to run, and honey-do projects to finish…. Later all!! TGIF!!
American_Way
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:16 am | Permalink
“At twenty years, one can receive 50 percent of their basic pay.”
Don’t forget the changes for “high 3?.
========================
Must be after my time, haven’t been keeping up with military news.
My uncle retired from USAF after 22 years, as a Lt. Colonel…. BIG pension…. Then, since he was far less than 65, went to work first for Motorola, then Sony, making somewhere in the mid 6-figures… On TOP of his Air Force pension…. Needless to say, he was one of my only TWO rich uncles… But neither of them believed in sharing with the rest of the family… LOL (nor was it expected, either)
They unwired Coulter’s jaws!
And she gave us this gem –
Coulter: Oh, third point. I just want to mention — Liberals, hysterical with me throughout the campaign for calling him B. Hussein Obama, we found out yesterday, that’s what he likes to be called.
Cavuto: What are you saying in this –
Coulter: He’s changed his — now that he’s president –
Cavuto: Yeah, but when he’s inaugurated — remember it was a thing with Jimmy Carter, you know, whether they were gonna call him James Earl Carter –
Coulter: Yeah, but as president, he wants to be known as Barack – Hussein – Obama.
Cavuto: How do you know that?
Coulter: He announced it yesterday!
Cavuto: Where did he announce it?
Coulter: [pause] I don’t know! Wherever he announces things! Where does he announce anything?”
Of course, there was no such announcement.
Chas
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:16 am | Permalink
Well, folks, errands to run, and honey-do projects to finish…. Later all!!
If only it were true.
Chas
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:19 am | Permalink
HA!!! knew it was a lie.
“But neither of them believed in sharing with the rest of the family…”
Is that from LibWorld or not?
More CON name-calling desperation –
“American_Way” gives us:
Blewjay
Could you CONs be any more 8th Grade?
Inner Peace – holiday humor is prescribed I am passing this on to you because it definitely worked for me today, and we all could probably use more calm in our lives! Some doctor on the TV this morning said that the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you have started. So I looked around my house to see things I’d started and hadn’t finished. Before leaving the house this morning, I finished off a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of shhhardonay, a bodle of Baileys, abutle of vocka, a pockage of Pringlies, tha mainder of a botl Prozic and Valumscriptins, the res of the Chesescke an a box a chocolets. Yu haf no idr who fikin gud I fel. Peas sen dis orn to anyy yu fee ar in ned ov inr pece. P.S. Please drink, responsibly.
Monkeyhawk posted,
“Could you CONs be any more 8th Grade?”
I don’t know but the DimLibs sure can, take a look at some of the obscene, anal, childish posts from misfit, or whatever, BJ and even Chas last night on the open thread before this one.
They are simply foul mouthed juveniles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayF1T_CdGro
Freebird1971,
Congratulations on your son!!!
Thank him for me for ‘being there when we most need help’. And God Bless him and keep him safe.
Monkeymaggotpunkhawk comments on name calling while calling people names. So typical. Wassamatter, did it sting?
#
Chas
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:19 am | Permalink
My uncle retired from USAF after 22 years, as a Lt. Colonel…. BIG pension…. Then, since he was far less than 65, went to work first for Motorola, then Sony, making somewhere in the mid 6-figures… On TOP of his Air Force pension…. Needless to say, he was one of my only TWO rich uncles… But neither of them believed in sharing with the rest of the family… LOL (nor was it expected, either)
———————
Retired LTC with 22 years makes about $3600/month.
“Boxlock20″ whines –
“
I don’t know but the DimLibs sure canTHEY DO IT, TOO!!!
My apologies to 8th Graders for unfairly equating their debating techniques with the likes of “Boxloc20, “Regular,” et al.
Probably should be 3rd Graders.
“beber” is wrong again –
“Monkeymaggotpunkhawk comments on name calling while calling people names.”
I always refer to other posters by the nym they choose to post under.
The appeal WILL, of course, fall on ears deafened with ear buds in them.
“”I think the party has to stop shouting at the world and at the country,”Powell said. “I think that the party has to take a hard look at itself, and I’ve talked to a number of leaders in recent weeks and they understand that.” Powell, who says he still considers himself a Republican, said his party should also stop listening to conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh.
“Can we continue to listen to Rush Limbaugh?” Powell asked. “Is this really the kind of party that we want to be when these kinds of spokespersons seem to appeal to our lesser instincts rather than our better instincts?”
Zakaria’s full interview with Powell will air Sunday at 1 p.m. ET on CNN.
Cons have “better instincts”?
News to me.
Dear Monkeymaggotpunkhawk:
You called me a Con you stupid fuck. Con is a name. But I suppose that’s different than making up a nic for a nic. Renicing a blogger is like naming a cat or dog. You shouldn’t do it right away. After you get to know them, the name comes to you.
I wonder where Craptor went. Haw, haw, haw.
One realizes there’s a certain risk in this, but I can always reregister as Door King.
Freebird1971
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:54 am | Permalink
Hope everyone is doing well and in good health. I’ve had some ‘puter issues so have been away for a while.Today is a great day for me,I’m very fortunate that at 2 this afternoon I will be a witness to my son achieving his dream when he is presented his badge as a member of the City of Wichita Fire Dept.”
Welcome back, and congratulations to your son, and to his mother!!!
“News to me.”
I was surprised by this fact, too, BlueJay.
However I found one who is level-headed, an avid history fan, a true Christian and usually convinced by evidence rather than ideology. He often strays from the party on things like science and health care.
So there are reasonable conservatives in the world. it’s just that they are much quieter than the lunatic fringe.
Also, they are less likely to be posting on blogs because they have things to do, money to make :D
To be in Hawaii right now. Tell me, what is the weather like?
Conservatives are less likely to be posting on blogs? — Give me a break. Only a few years ago they ran in packs and chased anyone off who disagreed with them.
“Ben,
Yesterday you mentioned several natural phenomena that may or may not effect the earth’s climate. There are probably many more than you mentioned and some that have not even been discovered yet. Why are you focused only on man’s minute contribution?”
I’m not. Your thesis is false. Our understanding of paleoclimatology has many people’s contributions.
Freebird – welcome back – good to see ya. And congratulations on your son’s badge!
Congress says NO to autoworkers:
“This was just simply subterfuge on the part of the minority in the Republican Party who wanted to tear down any agreement that we came up with,” UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said at a press conference, declaring “the auto industry around the world is in peril.”
“Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker rejected the accusations, telling FOX News the union simply refused to offer a date by which they could be competitive with foreign automakers who have plants in the United States.
“I was stunned that they would walk away from a deal to put these companies on an incredible footing, a healthy footing for their employees for years to come,” Corker said.
The senator complained that the UAW pay scale is “far higher” than at other plants in the United States, particularly those of foreign automakers.
In terms of hourly wages, the pay scales are similar. For instance, General Motors says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.
The difference is in the benefits, however. GM’s hourly labor costs (including pensions and health care) total $69 for active workers. Toyota’s total about $48 per hour at older U.S. plants.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
donndublin posted December 12, 2008 at 9:50 am
donndublin posted December 11, 2008 at 6:17 pm
This old as dirt theory is: THE NATURAL CLIMATE/WEATHER CYCLE.
———————–
So “NATURE” is releasing huge amounts of CO2, by burning coal and oil in our power plants, vehicles, etc? “NATURE” is clear-cutting forests, and causing other land-use changes? “NATURE” has released huge amounts of methane, by raising livestock, drilling for nat gas, etc? “NATURE” produced and released CFC’s?
__________________________________________________
CLIMATE/WEATHER CYCLE = CLIMATE AND WEATHER cycles
Cos,
Are you saying that there are no NATURAL CO2 emissions?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NO. . . I sarcastically asked you why you believe that “NATURE” released the GHG’s that humans released.
That’s what you are claiming when you insist that anthropogenic GHG’s cause a NATURAL climate change.
Should’ve been,
So “NATURE” is releasing huge amounts of CO2, by burning coal and oil in our power plants, vehicles, etc? “NATURE” is clear-cutting forests, and causing other land-use changes? “NATURE” has released huge amounts of methane, by raising livestock, drilling for nat gas, etc? “NATURE” produced and released CFC’s?
See Bush isn’t so bad.
Executive Order: Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Friday, December 26, 2008
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. All executive branch departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall be closed and their employees excused from duty on Friday, December 26, 2008, the day after Christmas Day, except as provided in section 2 of this order.
Sec. 2. The heads of executive branch departments and agencies may determine that certain offices and installations of their organizations, or parts thereof, must remain open and that certain employees must report for duty on December 26, 2008, for reasons of national security or defense or other public need.
Sec. 3. Friday, December 26, 2008, shall be considered as falling within the scope of Executive Order 11582 of February 11, 1971, and of 5 U.S.C. 5546 and 6103(b) and other similar statutes insofar as they relate to the pay and leave of employees of the United States.
Sec. 4. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity, by any party against the United States, its agencies, instrumentalities, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
December 12, 2008
Here are the pack of lies that 4,290 American soldiers died for in Iraq.
From The Nation
Lie #1–They Attacked Us: Iraq Supported Al Qaeda.
Astonishingly, President Bush, in a rare moment of candor, finally admitted half a year after the invasion that there was no evidence Saddam Hussein’s Iraq had any links to the 9/11 attacks, undermining eighteen months of implying the exact opposite.
Lies #2 and #3–Imminent Threats: Iraq’s Bio-Chem and Nuclear Weapons Programs.
A year after using his 2003 State of the Union address to paint Iraq’s allegedly vast arsenal of WMD as a grave threat to the United States and the world . . . chief US weapons inspector David Kay quit and began telling the world what the Bush Administration had been denying since taking office: that Saddam Hussein’s regime was but a weak shadow of the semi-fearsome military force it had been at the time of the first Gulf War thirteen years ago; that it had no significant chemical, biological or nuclear weapons programs or stockpiles still in place; and that the UN inspections and allied bombing runs in the 1990s had been much more effective than their critics had believed at eroding these programs.
Lie #4–It Will Be Easy: Iraq as a “Cakewalk.”
“The capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq,” Bush admitted, putting the lie to the idiotic and arrogant statements by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others that policing Iraq would be a simple matter that could be quickly delegated to Iraqis as soon as they stopped celebrating the US military’s arrival and cleaned up all those flowers they were going to throw.
Lie #5–The Moral Justification: Iraq as a Democratic Model.
As the other lies upon which this war were based have been crumbling, this one has moved to the forefront. For war apologists such as the New York Times’s Thomas Friedman, if we can “bring democracy to Iraq,” all those immoral means will justify this noble end. Here, too, we find grave problems continuing to frustrate the fantasies of neocons and neoliberals alike.
I wonder how liberals feel about our new form of Government? We now have four branches to government:
Treasury
Executive
Legislative
Judicial
The Treasury now wields MORE power than any of the others!
Don’t let your personal feelings about the loan for the auto industry cloud your judgement on this.
What “if” the treasury overruled a decision made by the democrat majority? Would you like that power?
“After the Senate refused to pass a rescue bill for the U.S. auto industry that was endorsed by President Bush and congressional Democrats, the Treasury Department said Friday it is ready to prevent the collapse of Detroit’s Big Three carmakers.
“Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry,” Treasury spokeswoman Brookly McLaughlin said.
The White House said Friday it would consider using money in the Wall Street bailout fund to help the automakers.
“The current weakened state of the economy is such that it could not withstand a body blow like a disorderly bankruptcy in the auto industry,” White House press secretary Dana Perino said.” Fox
My uncle retired from USAF after 22 years, as a Lt. Colonel…. BIG pension…. Then, since he was far less than 65, went to work first for Motorola, then Sony, making somewhere in the mid 6-figures
*****
Of course. He uses his military connections to liasion between the military and the filthy rich private contractors feeding on taxpayer money.
But according to Reguliar, he EARNED that 36K pension. Not like some working stiff who . . . you know . . . actually works for a living.
Hey . . . how do you think Dick Cheney bought that sixth house?
Working for a living?
HAHAHAHA . . . don’t be absurd.
Cosmos,
Can you prove that the human contribution (3.201%) of Cos causes global warming?
Can you prove that recent warming is not naturally recovering from the little ice age?
Can you prove that if there is GHG warming that it is not due to methane?
Can you prove that we have not been cooling since 2001?
You and your ilk (what is left of them) state the claim that AGW is occurring. The burden of proof is in your court.
“American_Way
Posted December 12, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
I wonder how liberals feel about our new form of Government? We now have four branches to government”
I disagree – the 4th you suggest is an extension of the Executive branch in all material aspects.
However, for the sake responding to your point… I much prefer the 4 in our current world to the 1 (Executive) we had under the Bush-Cheney world
Lie #1–They Attacked Us: Iraq Supported Al Qaeda.
Astonishingly, President Bush, in a rare moment of candor, finally admitted half a year after the invasion that there was no evidence Saddam Hussein’s Iraq had any links to the 9/11 attacks, undermining eighteen months of implying the exact opposite.
———–
Hmmm… I never got that implication from anything that he said.
cosmos_originally
Posted December 12, 2008 at 12:04 pm | Permalink
Should’ve been,
So “NATURE” is releasing huge amounts of CO2,
Cosmos,
Thank you for proving your ignorance of CO2 in the atmosphere. Nature is responsible for 18.599% of CO2 while 78.175% is naturally occurring.
Since humans account for a mere 3.201% only an idiot would work on the smallest number first.
“NATURE” has released huge amounts of methane, by raising livestock
Are you a vegan cosmos? Do you think that –man- created animals?
That’s it, “outlander” –
Plead ignorance.
It’s almost always appropriate.
Sol intones, “Can you prove that we have not been cooling since 2001?”
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png
This graph above shows world temps steadily rising since 1944.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.lrg.gif
This updated NASA graph shows temps rising at the same average rate since about 1992.
Well Monkey when you speak about ignorance, how could I argue with the master?
But really, you would have to be a moron to think that Bush’s justification for the Iran war was based on 911.
Oops, did I just insult you?
Anytime repubs get overruled, it’s a good day.
SolDevVB stupidly asks,
Can you prove that we have not been cooling since 2001?
—————–
Land warms faster than oceans.
Most of Earth’s land is in the upper Northern latitudes.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.B.lrg.gif
capn
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rss-msu-monthly-anom.png
Regular
Posted December 12, 2008 at 10:42 am | Permalink
Retired LTC with 22 years makes about $3600/month.
————————————————–
Regular: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
Did Chas say when his uncle retired?
Makes a world of difference.
A LtCol is paygrade 05 (for you civilians).
At 22 years, they retire at 55% of basic pay.
(50% at 20 years plus 2.5% additional each year after 20.)
Based upon the pay scales available on line here are the basic-pay for a light bird:
05 in 1970 made $16362 annually x 55% = $8999 annually = $750 monthly
05 in 1979 made $29561 annually x 55% = $16258 annually = $1354 monthly
05 in 1996 made $59753 annually x 55% = $32864 annually = $2739 monthly
05 in 2008 made $91128 annually x 55% = $50120 annually = $4176 monthly
Additionally, (comma, pause for effect) each year
following retirement, retirees receive an annual COLA. The COLA percentage changes each year, but the affect compounds your retirement base as the years go by.
In 2008 the COLA was 3.5% and this year the COLA is one of the highest I have ever seen: 3.9% (now tied to SS COLA).
So my question is Regular, without knowing when Chas’ uncle retired, how do you know how much the “rich” uncle makes monthly?
Respectfully and thanks!
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rss-msu-2007-2008-delta.png
Outlander intones, “you’d have to be a moron to think that Bush’s justification for the Iran war was based on 9-11.”
THEN BUSH IS A MORON AND SO IS EVERYONE WHO STILL BELIEVES HIM. (The 20 percent or so . . . )
W still ties Iraq, 9/11
BY KENNETH R. BAZINET
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Wednesday, July 25th 2007, 4:00 AM
WASHINGTON – Trying again to wrest control of the Iraq war debate from the Democrats, President Bush used a friendly military audience yesterday to repeat claims of a link between the 9/11 attacks and insurgents in Iraq.
Bush tried to play the role of one-man truth squad at Charleston Air Force Base, S.C., where a day earlier Democratic presidential candidates turned his war policy into a political punching bag. Despite overwhelming public disapproval of his handling of the war, Bush doggedly fought back.
“They claim that the organization called Al Qaeda in Iraq is an Iraqi phenomenon, that it’s independent of Osama Bin Laden and that it’s not interested in attacking America,” he said. “That would be news to Osama Bin Laden. He’s proclaimed that the ‘Third World War is raging in Iraq.’”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/07/25/2007-07-25_w_still_ties_iraq_911-2.html
Should’ve said repubs in congress, since it is repubs in the admin. overruling. Actually, the chickenshit repubs in congress wanted the admin to take the lead on this, so they wouldn’t have to piss off any constituents. They know they won’t be up for pres. election until 4 yrs., but have to face the voters in two in the mid-terms.
US President George Bush has said there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks.
The comments – among his most explicit so far on the issue – come after a recent opinion poll found that nearly 70% of Americans believed the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks.
Mr Bush did however repeat his belief that the former Iraqi president had ties to al-Qaeda – the group widely regarded as responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington.
Critics of the war on Iraq have accused the US administration of deliberately encouraging public confusion to generate support for military action.
*****
Gee, I wonder where 70 percent of the morons could have gotten that idea . . .
As recently as last Sunday, Vice-President Dick Cheney, refused to rule out a link between Iraq and 11 September, saying “‘we don’t know”.
“We will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who’ve had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm
18 September, 2003
OH NO! Cheney is a moron too, according to Outlander.
But nice try at re-writing history.
Moron.
70% of Americans are moron’s Capn?
Or 70% of the Moron’s……..
Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 18, 2004; Page A09
President Bush yesterday defended his assertions that there was a relationship between Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda, putting him at odds with this week’s finding of the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission.
“The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda,” Bush said after a Cabinet meeting. As evidence, he cited Iraqi intelligence officers’ meeting with bin Laden in Sudan. “There’s numerous contacts between the two,” Bush said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html
Sol stupidly says,
You and your ilk (what is left of them) state the claim that AGW is occurring. The burden of proof is in your court.
——————-
* Science is based on theories, not proof.
* The AGW theory is based on science done since the 1800’s.
* The burden is on the AGW deniers to:
1) Refute the theory and observations that more “greenhouse” gases cause warming.
2) Refute the theory and observations that aerosols cause cooling.
3) Refute the fact that natural climate forcings alone do NOT explain the observed temperatures since the 1900’s — but natural PLUS anthropogenic forcings DO explain them.
4) Find the unknown natural forcing(s) to replace the anthropogenic forcings, which you claim do not exist, but are required by # 3.
And do it with real science, instead of your usual garbage.
‘650 international scientists? Err, not exactly.‘
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/12/650_international_scientists_e.php
‘Inhofe recycles long-debunked denier talking points — will the media be fooled (again)?‘
http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/11/inhofe-morano-recycles-long-debunked-denier-talking-points-will-the-media-be-fooled-again/
Jesus WEPT amway!
Saying the AP contributed to a report is NOT the same as providing a source. I’m continually amused at the wingnuts here who are ashamed of the sources from which they copy and paste. Either that, or they are just garden variety plagiarists.
Here’s the source for amway’s 11:58 nutcase post about autoworker salaries.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/12/auto-workers-union-lashes-gop-senators-bailout-collapse/
The google is your friend….
Why not just SAY it’s from fux news?
Sol–
Where is YOUR evidence that global temps have fallen in the last seven years?
CapnAmerica
Posted December 12, 2008 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
US President George Bush has said there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks.
The comments – among his most explicit so far on the issue – come after a recent opinion poll found that nearly 70% of Americans believed the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks.
Mr Bush did however repeat his belief that the former Iraqi president had ties to al-Qaeda – the group widely regarded as responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington.
Critics of the war on Iraq have accused the US administration of deliberately encouraging public confusion to generate support for military action.
*****
Gee, I wonder where 70 percent of the morons could have gotten that idea
————–
Um.. Capn, your article was not about the justification for the invasion of Iraq.
And what Bush said there was absolutely true. A lot of the insurgents were al qaeda.
ksfarmgrrl
Not hiding anything farmgirl. I try to cite a source most of the time. Even today, you will see posts where I put “FOX” at the end.
On this particular one, since it’s also on the AP wire, and you only need one link to source, I thought that was enough.
I try to provide links most of my posts will support that claim.
Bonjour, Madame KsGrrl.
Wow . . . it sure got quiet from outlander’s corner.
What? He refuses to come out and throws in the towel?
Being a CON means never having to admit you were wrong.
You are backing the alarmists cosmos. You are the one demanding change. Prove that change a) is needed and b) will make a difference. If we totally remove the 3% man contributes, what about the 18% that nature contributes? Seems to me you’d want to tackle the culprit that is producing 6 times that of man.
But of course you can’t. Just like you can’t refute that the earth is recovering from the little ice age. Just like you can’t refute that the earth has been cooling since 2001. Just like you can’t refute the correlation of sun cycles to the earth’s temperatures.
The sky is falling cosmos. Get your carbon credits while you can. What a gullible maroon.
Hey cosmos, did you know that gullible isn’t in the dictionary?
Capn you are no better. So I guess I could throw the same generality your way.
Being a LIB means never having to admit you were wrong.
RE: your post on the Census Bureau claiming I had mistated what the race is.
Outlander–
Read it again–
As recently as last Sunday, Vice-President Dick Cheney, refused to rule out a link between Iraq and 11 September, saying “‘we don’t know”.
“We will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who’ve had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.”
*****
70 percent of the American people believed that Saddam Hussein attacked us on 9-11 before we invaded Iraq because that was exactly what BushCo wanted them to believe.
It was not the only lie they perpetrated before the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq, but it was one of the most egregious.
DEMING: Global warming freeze?
David Deming
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
* Comment
COMMENTARY:
President-elect Barack Obama recently declared his intention to mitigate global warming by enacting a cap-and-trade policy that would reduce carbon emissions 80 percent by the year 2050.
But the last two years of global cooling have nearly erased 30 years of temperature increases. To the extent that global warming ever existed, it is now officially over.
This year began with a severe spell of winter weather in China. Observers characterized it as the largest natural disaster to hit China in decades. By the end of January, blizzards and cold temperatures had killed 60 people and caused millions to lose electric service. Nearly a million buildings were damaged and airports had to close. Hong Kong had the second-longest cold spell since 1885. A temperature of 33.6 degrees Fahrenheit was barely higher than the record low of 32 degrees F set in 1893.
Other countries in Asia also experienced record cold. In February, cold in the northern half of Vietnam wiped out 40 percent of the rice crop and killed 33,000 head of livestock. In India, the city of Mumbai recorded the lowest temperatures of the last 40 years. Across India, there was more frost damage to crops than at any other time in the last 30 years.
In the United States, the weather also was frigid. The city of International Falls, Minn,, whose official nickname is the “icebox of the nation,” set a new record low temperature of minus 40 degrees F, breaking the old record of minus 37 F established in 1967.
Alaska experienced an unusually cold and wet summer. For the first time since the 18th century, Alaskan glaciers grew instead of retreating. In Fairbanks, October was the fourth coldest in 104 years of record. Last month in Reading, Pa., the temperature stayed below 40 degrees F for six consecutive days – the longest November cold spell there since 1903.
These cold weather events were not abnormal or isolated incidents. Global measures of climatic conditions indicate significant cooling.
A preliminary estimate by the British Met Office says 2008 will be the coldest year of the last 10. The extent of global sea ice is at the same level it was in 1980. The mean planetary temperature, as monitored by satellite, also is the same as in 1980.
Last March, NASA reported the oceans have been cooling for the last five years. Sea level has stopped rising, and Northern Hemisphere cyclone and hurricane activity is at a 24-year low.
Environmental extremists and global warming alarmists are in denial and running for cover. Their rationale for continuing a lost cause is that weather events in the short term are not necessarily related to long-term climatic trends. But these are the same people who screamed at us each year that ordinary weather events such as high temperatures or hurricanes were undeniable evidence of imminent doom.
Now that global warming is over, politicians are finally ready to enact dubious solutions to a non-existent problem. In Britain, Parliament is intrepidly forging ahead with a bold new plan to cool the climate, even as London experienced its first October snowfall since 1934 and Ireland went through the coldest October in the last 70 years.
This is an absurd spectacle. Our advanced civilization is being systematically mismanaged by technologically illiterate lawyers responding to political pressures from irrational fanatics. Would someone please tell these people it is impossible to overturn the laws of thermodynamics?
We cannot improve our economy by artificially forcing people to use expensive, unreliable and inefficient energy sources.
Let the politicians take note. People will not like what you have in mind. California is arguably the most liberal state. Yet last month they defeated, by nearly a 2-to-1 margin, a law that would have forced California utilities to obtain half their electric power from renewable sources. What the Obama administration proposes is much more radical. Their cap-and-trade proposal will dramatically increase the energy costs of the average consumer and likely drive our crippled economy into a severe depression.
To the extent global warming was ever valid, it is now officially over. It is time to file this theory in the dustbin of history, next to Aristotelean physics, Neptunism, the geocentric universe, phlogiston, and a plethora of other incorrect scientific theories, all of which had vocal and dogmatic supporters who cited incontrovertible evidence.
Weather and climate change are natural processes beyond human control. To argue otherwise is to deny the factual evidence.
David Deming is a geophysicist, an adjunct scholar with the National Center for Policy Analysis and an associate professor of arts and sciences at the University of Oklahoma.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/10/global-warming-freeze/
Let’s see, about now Cosmos will post about the author from his “Denier” files.
Here’s another lie from Bush–
The Senators saw the same intelligence that we did, and they voted to go to war.
Actually, BushCo withheld key documents and information that undercut their case:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1122nj1.htm
Key Bush Intelligence Briefing Kept From Hill Panel
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2005
Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda, according to government records and current and former officials with firsthand knowledge of the matter.
The administration has refused to provide the Sept. 21 President’s Daily Brief, even on a classified basis, and won’t say anything more about it other than to acknowledge that it exists.
The information was provided to Bush on September 21, 2001 during the “President’s Daily Brief,” a 30- to 45-minute early-morning national security briefing. Information for PDBs has routinely been derived from electronic intercepts, human agents, and reports from foreign intelligence services, as well as more mundane sources such as news reports and public statements by foreign leaders.
One of the more intriguing things that Bush was told during the briefing was that the few credible reports of contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda involved attempts by Saddam Hussein to monitor the terrorist group. Saddam viewed Al Qaeda as well as other theocratic radical Islamist organizations as a potential threat to his secular regime. At one point, analysts believed, Saddam considered infiltrating the ranks of Al Qaeda with Iraqi nationals or even Iraqi intelligence operatives to learn more about its inner workings, according to records and sources.
The September 21, 2001, briefing was prepared at the request of the president, who was eager in the days following the terrorist attacks to learn all that he could about any possible connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
Much of the contents of the September 21 PDB were later incorporated, albeit in a slightly different form, into a lengthier CIA analysis examining not only Al Qaeda’s contacts with Iraq, but also Iraq’s support for international terrorism. Although the CIA found scant evidence of collaboration between Iraq and Al Qaeda, the agency reported that it had long since established that Iraq had previously supported the notorious Abu Nidal terrorist organization, and had provided tens of millions of dollars and logistical support to Palestinian groups, including payments to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.
The highly classified CIA assessment was distributed to President Bush, Vice President Cheney, the president’s national security adviser and deputy national security adviser, the secretaries and undersecretaries of State and Defense, and various other senior Bush administration policy makers, according to government records.
The Senate Intelligence Committee has asked the White House for the CIA assessment, the PDB of September 21, 2001, and dozens of other PDBs as part of the committee’s ongoing investigation into whether the Bush administration misrepresented intelligence information in the run-up to war with Iraq. The Bush administration has refused to turn over these documents.
Indeed, the existence of the September 21 PDB was not disclosed to the Intelligence Committee until the summer of 2004, according to congressional sources. Both Republicans and Democrats requested then that it be turned over. The administration has refused to provide it, even on a classified basis, and won’t say anything more about it other than to acknowledge that it exists.
On November 18, Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., said he planned to attach an amendment to the fiscal 2006 intelligence authorization bill that would require the Bush administration to give the Senate and House intelligence committees copies of PDBs for a three-year period. After Democrats and Republicans were unable to agree on language for the amendment, Kennedy said he would delay final action on the matter until Congress returns in December.
The conclusions drawn in the lengthier CIA assessment-which has also been denied to the committee-were strikingly similar to those provided to President Bush in the September 21 PDB, according to records and sources. In the four years since Bush received the briefing, according to highly placed government officials, little evidence has come to light to contradict the CIA’s original conclusion that no collaborative relationship existed between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
“What the President was told on September 21,” said one former high-level official, “was consistent with everything he has been told since-that the evidence was just not there.”
In arguing their case for war with Iraq, the president and vice president said after the September 11 attacks that Al Qaeda and Iraq had significant ties, and they cited the possibility that Iraq might share chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons with Al Qaeda for a terrorist attack against the United States.
Democrats in Congress, as well as other critics of the Bush administration, charge that Bush and Cheney misrepresented and distorted intelligence information to bolster their case for war with Iraq. The president and vice president have insisted that they unknowingly relied on faulty and erroneous intelligence, provided mostly by the CIA.
The new information on the September 21 PDB and the subsequent CIA analysis bears on the question of what the CIA told the president and how the administration used that information as it made its case for war with Iraq.
The central rationale for going to war against Iraq, of course, was that Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons, and that he was pursuing an aggressive program to build nuclear weapons. Despite those claims, no weapons were ever discovered after the war, either by United Nations inspectors or by U.S. military authorities.
Much of the blame for the incorrect information in statements made by the president and other senior administration officials regarding the weapons-of-mass-destruction issue has fallen on the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies.
Bush and Cheney have also recently answered their critics by ascribing partisan motivations to them and saying their criticism has the effect of undermining the war effort. In a speech on November 11, the president made his strongest comments to date on the subject: “Baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America’s will.” Since then, he has adopted a different tone, and he said on his way home from Asia on November 21, “This is not an issue of who is a patriot or not.”
. . .a comparison of public statements by the president, the vice president, and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld show that in the days just before a congressional vote authorizing war, they professed to have been given information from U.S. intelligence assessments showing evidence of an Iraq-Al Qaeda link.
“You can’t distinguish between Al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror,” President Bush said on September 25, 2002.
The next day, Rumsfeld said, “We have what we consider to be credible evidence that Al Qaeda leaders have sought contacts with Iraq who could help them acquire … weapons-of-mass-destruction capabilities.”
The most explosive of allegations came from Cheney, who said that September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta, the pilot of the first plane to crash into the World Trade Center, had met in Prague, in the Czech Republic, with a senior Iraqi intelligence agent, Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, five months before the attacks. On December 9, 2001, Cheney said on NBC’s Meet the Press: “[I]t’s pretty well confirmed that [Atta] did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in [the Czech Republic] last April, several months before the attack.”
Cheney continued to make the charge, even after he was briefed, according to government records and officials, that both the CIA and the FBI discounted the possibility of such a meeting.
Credit card and phone records appear to demonstrate that Atta was in Virginia Beach, Va., at the time of the alleged meeting, according to law enforcement and intelligence officials. Al-Ani, the Iraqi intelligence official with whom Atta was said to have met in Prague, was later taken into custody by U.S. authorities. He not only denied the report of the meeting with Atta, but said that he was not in Prague at the time of the supposed meeting, according to published reports.
In June 2004, the 9/11 commission concluded: “There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between Al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and Al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.”
Regarding the alleged meeting in Prague, the commission concluded: “We do not believe that such a meeting occurred.”
Still, Cheney did not concede the point. “We have never been able to prove that there was a connection to 9/11,” Cheney said after the commission announced it could not find significant links between Al Qaeda and Iraq. But the vice president again pointed out the existence of a Czech intelligence service report that Atta and the Iraqi agent had met in Prague. “That’s never been proved. But it’s never been disproved,” Cheney said.
“It was not the only lie they perpetrated before the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq,…”
Too bad there wasn’t an opposition party to vote against it. Or one to stop it afterwards.
Cowards.
Washinton Times.
Good one, outlander, good one.
Heh.
Hannity and colmes is gonna be just “Hannity”.
I wonder if anyone will even notice.
We wish Alan Colmes great luck in pursuit of some dignity and self respect.
“Too bad there wasn’t an opposition party to vote against the war.”
Too bad we didn’t have a President who gave them the same information he had so they could make an informed decision.
The crime of the Democrats was believing the lying POS sitting in Al Gore’s house.
Outlander–
Maybe you, unlike your pal Sollie there, can provide a graph showing this amazing MIRACULOUS global cooling that has been taking place recently.
I’d like to see it.
Let’s see, about now Cosmos will post about the author from his “Denier” files.
Nah, He’ll just ask you to prove something and completely ignore reality.
Heh Hall and Oates salute Alan Colmes…
BlueJay sings along.
Oh he’s gone. to the extent that we don’t notice he’s not there.
“..so they could make an informed decision.”
They didn’t have the balls to oppose. Like most things the dems do, politics first.
…and a good day to you too, Captain!
Sol,
So you do NOT have any credible science to support your AGW denial? Just name-calling and wild arm flailing? Okay.
Washinton Times.
Good one, outlander, good one.
————-
Why Capn, isn’t that like linking the NY Times or LA Times.. etc?
Oh, never mind, I bet they lean conservative and therefore have no cred. That it???
AmWay–
You claimed wrongly that people are forced to check only one box regarding racial identity.
“Which circle do you fill in or box do you check?”
I pointed out that (on the census anyway) you can fill out whichever labels apply.
Accepting your apology in advance . . .
Yours,
CapnA
“So you do NOT have any credible science to support your AGW denial?”
How does one prove a negative?
Can you prove Jesus is not the Son O’ God?
Uh, outie? It’s sometimes called the MOONIE times because it’s owned by the Rev. Moon.
I thought you christians didnt trust the moonies?
Silly me.
BDP Fleetie whines, “How does one prove a negative?”
Regarding Global Warming, it’s quite simple–show that temps are not rising.
Both Sollie and outlander have claimed this, and yet neither have provided a simple graph showing cooling temps.
Strange, isn’t it?
““Too bad there wasn’t an opposition party to vote against the war.”
Too bad we didn’t have a President who gave them the same information he had so they could make an informed decision.
The crime of the Democrats was believing the lying POS sitting in Al Gore’s house.”
Yeah, all the people in the link below were either lying, or TOO STUPID and HAD TO BELEIVE BUSH because they couldn;t figure it out for themselves.
OH SORRY BUSH MADE THEM DO IT!!!!
Yeah,sure. and the dates previous to the BUSH sitting in ALGORES House?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
cosmos,
Thank you for proving you can not refute my statements and can not prove that AGW exists, that “A” belongs in the acronym, and that nature far outweighs man’s contributions to climate.
Capn, I posted links. Look above.
Sol–
I saw the link you posted and it did not show that the last seven years were cooling.
The two graphs I posted show that they’re part of a warming trend.
Littlejohn–
4209 American soldiers died for a pack of lies.
Laugh at that, if you can.
Plick.
outlander posted December 12, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Last March, NASA reported the oceans have been cooling for the last five years.
—————————
SolDevVB posted December 12, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Let’s see, about now Cosmos will post about the author from his “Denier” files.
Nah, He’ll just ask you to prove something and completely ignore reality.
—————————–
outlander and Sol,
The sources that you use to form your opinions is YOUR responsibility, not mine.
‘Correcting Ocean Cooling‘
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OceanCooling/page1.php
Sol posted,
“that nature far outweighs man’s contributions to climate.”
———————-
What’s causing the rapid warming of the upper Northern latitudes?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.B.lrg.gif
Solar has been relatively steady since the mid-1970’s, and even dropped recently.
BlueJay
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink
While we are attacking people, here is a group I don’t like.
Military retirees.
These people live for 20 years on the public dime and THEN they get a pension until they die WHILE they pursue a second career.
I say they do their time as long as they want and cut ‘em loose.
————————————————————–
Remember the BJ comment above Vets. You served your country for 20+ years, many of you risking your life in combat under the worst working conditions known to mankind, BUT YOU DID NOT EARN YOUR PENSION!
CapnAmerica
Posted December 12, 2008 at 12:13 pm | Permalink
My uncle retired from USAF after 22 years, as a Lt. Colonel…. BIG pension…. Then, since he was far less than 65, went to work first for Motorola, then Sony, making somewhere in the mid 6-figures
*****
Of course. He uses his military connections to liasion between the military and the filthy rich private contractors feeding on taxpayer money.
But according to Reguliar, he EARNED that 36K pension. Not like some working stiff who . . . you know . . . actually works for a living.
———————————————————-
And VETS, please remember the comments of CrapOnAmerica too, who also believe you DID NOT EARN YOUR MILITARY PENSION!
These Leftists wonder why they are called unpatriotic!
Capna-
Not laughing at a damn thing. PLICK!
Haven;t had friends die in that godforsaked asshole land, haven;t seen family serve overthere, haven;t helped grieving widows, I don;t laugh at a damn thing about it. Your attempt to make it as I did shows how contemptible your character is. I laughed at your feeble attempt to continually disregard the fact that DEMS were equally at fault (if you want to call it that) for that miserable war. One I was opposed to from the beginning. BUt I don;t have partisan blinders on like people like you. But go ahead, blame it ALL on BUSH, You will never learn or make the world a better place for your partisanship
Plick yourself
capn,
Try this one. Raw data, unadjusted.
The last two sons, husbands, and fathers who died for Bush’s War:
•Staff Sgt. Solomon T. Sam, 31, Majuro, Marshall Islands; died of wounds from an improvised explosive device in Mosul; assigned to the 523rd Engineer Company, 84th Engineer Battalion, 25th Infantry Division, Schofield Barracks, Hawaii.
• Sgt. John J. Savage, 26, Weatherford, Texas; died of wounds from an improvised explosive device in Mosul; assigned to the 103rd Engineer Company, 94th Engineer Company, Fort Leonard Wood, Mo.
American_Way
Posted December 12, 2008 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
Capn you are no better. So I guess I could throw the same generality your way.
Being a LIB means never having to admit you were wrong.
RE: your post on the Census Bureau claiming I had mistated what the race is.
———————————————————-
And the definition of RACE has yet to be defined by the Libs who labeled many racists yesterday.
They love to use words that sound good, even when they have no clue as to the meaning of the words they use.
damn it. here is the link
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps
SolDevVB posted December 12, 2008 at 1:40 pm
capn,
Try this one. Raw data, unadjusted.
——————
Yep, that’s exactly what Sol has to support his AGW denial — nothing! LOL!
Warming would be better than cooling Capn. Here is a chart prepared by the University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://www.globalwarming.org/node/2754
Even better Sol!
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps
“Error return (1) from MCU_GetPost ”
——————–
LittleJohn claims that I “continually disregard the fact that DEMS were equally at fault.”
You’re right, LJ. I disregard that fact because it isn’t even remotely true.
Bush pushed this war down our throats as the nation was reeling from the 9-11 attacks. He viciously attacked protestors against the war as traitors and unpatriotic and unAmerican, and so did a lot of folks like you. I know this first hand because I was protesting it in the streets on a regular basis.
Some Dems were somewhat complicit for going along with it, but in no way were they equally to blame.
This was BUSHCO’s war from day one.
outlander posted December 12, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Warming would be better than cooling Capn.
——————–
Tell that to all the people who live near the ocean coastlines.
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/
Don’t you know how to strip an errored url?
And you have what to support your agw farce cosmos?
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rss-msu-2007-2008-delta.png
$70/hour is $140,000/year for unskilled labor high school graduate auto workers.
$140,000/year.
That’s rich! And greedy!
No wonder a car costs $30,000 today!
A guy was driving around Wichita when he saw a sign in front of a house, ‘Talking Dog for Sale.’
He rang the bell and the owner told him the dog was in the backyard.
The guy went into the backyard and saw a Labrador sitting there.
‘You talk?’ he asked.
‘Yes,’ the Lab replied.
‘So, what’s the story?’
The Lab looked up and said, ‘Well, I discovered that I could talk when I was pretty young. I wanted to help the government, so I told the CIA about my gift, and in no time at all they had me jetting from country to country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one figured a dog would be eavesdropping. I was one of their most valuable spies for eight years running, but the jetting around really tired me out, and I knew I wasn’t getting any younger so I decided to settle down. I signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I uncovered some incredible dealings and was awarded a batch of medals. I got married, had a load of puppies, and now I’m just retired.’
The guy was amazed. He goes back in and asked the owner what he wanted for the dog.
‘Ten dollars.’ the man said.
‘Ten dollars? This dog is amazing. Why on earth are you selling him so cheap?’
‘Because he’s a liar, he never did any of that shit.’
“He viciously attacked protestors against the war as traitors and unpatriotic and unAmerican, and so did a lot of folks like you. I know this first hand because I was protesting it in the streets on a regular basis”
Another lie. A LOT of folks like me were against the war from the start. I know this firsthand because I was there. And I have repeatedly voiced so on this blog since I have been here. So keep on spinning. And spinning, and spinning. Or lying and lying, and lying. Call it what you will.
Again, your attempt to make my laughing at your political naivete or outright falsehoods somehting about laughing at troops dying shows your lack of character, n0t mine. Bye
Remember Shrub’s little video at the Washington Correspondents’ dinner where he looked for WMD under the sofa cushions in the Oval Office.
American men and women were getting killed and maimed during that little sophomoric escapade.
It’ll be so refreshing to have the United States of America under adult supervision again.
Jim Johnson–
Human “races” are an artificial construct based on genetic similarities such as skin color, eyelid folds, hair type and texture, etc.
There’s little real physical difference between races because we’re all part of the same species Homo sapiens. yes, Jim, even you are a homo.
Neaderthal Man was a different species of homo. The Cro-Magnon Man was only a racial type. A Cro-Magnon brought back to life would appear no different from an ordinary European.
However, to claim that race differences don’t exist would be to claim that slavery based on race never existed.
That’s pretty stupid even for a CON to believe . . .
We can’t exactly define it, but we know it when we see it.
SolDevVB posted December 12, 2008 at 1:54 pm
And you have what to support your agw farce cosmos?
—————–
Unlike your arm flailing AGW denial Sol, I have science.
LJ–
If you really think that the “Dems are equally at fault” for the war in Iraq, then you’re too stupid to have any further discussion with.
So, “bye” to you too.
A top evangelical leader has resigned his post following an uproar over a recent interview when he said he supports civil unions for gays.
The National Association of Evangelicals says the Rev. Richard Cizik quit Thursday as the group’s representative in Washington.
The announcement follows Cizik’s Dec. 2 interview on National Public Radio’s “Fresh Air” program. Cizik said on the show that he backs same-sex civil unions and made other comments that the evangelical group says don’t reflect their values.
Cizik had already made enemies of some evangelical leaders because of his high-profile fight against global warming.
http://tinyurl.com/6zjaxq
Love apparently makes baby Jesus cry.
Hey Cos,
Here’s your homework for the weekend.
http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213
Stories like this have been continually buried by the media as not WMD enough….
Unlike your arm flailing AGW denial Sol, I have science.
So then the answer is no. Just your religion. Got it.
See how much MPG went up during the Carter & Clinton years:
YEAR …………….. MPG
1960 …………….. 12.4
1965 …………….. 12.5
1970 …………….. 12.0
1975 …………….. 12.2
1980 …………….. 13.3
1985 …………….. 14.6
1990 …………….. 16.4
1991 …………….. 16.9
1992 …………….. 16.9
1993 …………….. 16.7
1994 …………….. 16.7
1995 …………….. 16.8
1996 …………….. 16.9
1997 …………….. 17.0
1998 …………….. 16.9
1999 …………….. 16.7
2000 …………….. 16.9
2001 …………….. 17.1
2002 …………….. 16.9
2003 …………….. 17.0
2004 …………….. 16.6
2005 …………….. 17.1
2006 …………….. 17.2
http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_09.html
Sol,
I found one here.
http://hypsithermal.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/surprise-medieval-warm-period-did-exist/
CapnAmerica
Posted December 12, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
Jim Johnson–
Human “races” are an artificial construct based on genetic similarities such as skin color, eyelid folds, hair type and texture, etc.
……………
We can’t exactly define it, but we know it when we see it.
———————————————
Your first statement is correct, and the first part of your last statement is correct. Everything else is the pure crap that spew elsewhere on this blog.
Good attempt though.
“The Senators saw the same intelligence that we did, and they voted to go to war.”
So Capn says that the Senators did not actually see all the evidence, yet they voted to go war anyways. Based on….What????
Your not helping your Senators too much Capn.
Either the Senators lacked the due diligence to investigate the evidence to determine if a “yes” vote is warranted, or they simply trusted Bush to make the best decision whatever it may be and have little recourse on the matter.
If the “YES” vote hinged on whether there was a Al Qeada link, they they should have voted “NO” since they were never presented with convincing evidence that there was a link.
The fact is, the senators changed their minds when they realized that they could profit scapegoating Bush and the Republicans for a unpopular war. Now they claimed that they never saw all the evidence. But why did they vote for the war then if they never saw the evidence?
My Solstice seasons greetings for the cons…
It is required of every man, that his spirit travel far. Bringing help to those he can. No matter who they are.
But if your DON’T go forth is life, spreading joy and easing pain? Your spirit will go forth in death. And you shall wear a chain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0KxTMZBmiE
And now to ALL blogger and readers? This “BlueJay” wants to put the image of a red kettle in your head. You’d be surprised at the power of persuasion. Like when a song gets stuck in your head? Yeah, I wanna use that.
From now on, whenever you see a red kettle, you wiil think of ME. It’s too late. The image is already there.Don’t even TRY to fight it. Even if you haven’t met me, my words will haunt you and you’re STILL stuck.
And when you see that red kettle and hear a bell and think of me, you will remember that I laid a challenge on you. You CAN’T walk by that kettle without putting something in. I see too many people doing that. IF you walk by that kettle and don’t put something in? You’re punking out on my challenge. I don’t have Santa’s intelligence apparatus. So I won’t know. But YOU will. Just TRY and live with yourself if ya punk out.
Revisionist For Loonies?
Jim: Delete the stuff that’s on board a new car these days vs years ago and think you’ll agree we’re not buying transportaton any more, but a moving rec room hence the much of the increase for a “car”. I wonder what a 59 Ford would sell for if produced as was, to-day? Union “scale” was relative to cost of living as it is to-day but the % ROI for investors was not nearly as high.
Red kettle?
You mean the Salvation Army?
Thanx don,
Be you from The Emerald Isle, might you be familiar with the County Cork?
“And when you see that red kettle and hear a bell and think of me,…”
I already do. The red face you have while posting your bile; you are a ding dong; and it’s gimme gimme gimme all the day long.
“4209 American soldiers died for a pack of lies.”
Pretty strong accusation. It fact, impeachable.
I wonder why Bush wasn’t impeached?
Looks like the dems in congress should be impeached if what you say it true.
Don’t you agree?
Hey donndublin!
Here’s your homework for the next few months.
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
and think about your scientific(sic) source,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Institute#Global_warming
More sterling debate technique from a con, this time ” “fleettwood” –
“…you are a ding dong….”
Do daycare centers have internet access these days?
“Unlike your arm flailing AGW denial Sol, I have science.”
You have faith. At least you got that going for you.
What has happened to my republican party? Here I stood for tighter spending, smaller governemnt and a balanced budget. Right wing wackos have taken over with the zealous religious right controling things. I only accepted anti abortion for the votes. Both Nancy and I understood why stem cell research was needed. I can’t believe this depression Bush has left the children. We have one lousy war and one important war going on. We have left the country in debt. Bush and Rove have turned this country over to the Democrates with the wastful spending, lies, corruption and the looting of businesses such as what has happened at GM. I cry today for the damage Bush has done to my country.
SolDevVB posted December 12, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
Unlike your arm flailing AGW denial Sol, I have science.
So then the answer is no. Just your religion. Got it.
—————————
AGW science neither expects nor requires global temperatures to steadily rise.
Your lacking the small amount intelligence to understand that does NOT refute that science.
Religion is based on faith, which is all that Sol has to support his denial of AGW.
RFL asks, “So Capn says that the Senators did not actually see all the evidence, yet they voted to go war anyways. Based on….What????”
Based on the evidence that Bush gave them.
The Senate Intelligence Committee was chaired at the time by none other than our own Pat “Ol’ Rubberstamp” Roberts. Not only was there no real discovery of the evidence, Roberts stone-walled the committee after the war turned up zero Al-Qaeda involvement and zero WMD’s.
You are right when you say that the Democrats were too compliant, perhaps even cowardly, to oppose Bush like they should have. But given the hysteria whipped up by “ORANGE ALERTS!” and 9-11 rumors as well as the character assassination employed by the CONs on any and all dissent, and it’s not hard to understand why the Dems went along with it.
That in no way makes them equally responsible for the needless death of 4,000 patriotic soldiers who continue to die for nothing in Iraq.
Did you tithe to the goracle cosmos? With ever falling temps, your religion is going to be short on funding soon. Hope you do well with your next “the sky is falling” farce.
Time is on my side. So are the temperatures, by the way.
“Religion is based on faith, which is all that Sol has to support his denial of AGW.”
Makes no sense that does.
US Compensation Costs for Auto Workers Compared to Other Countries:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ichcc.t07.htm
Japanese workers cost 18% less
Korean workers cost 43% less
(Note the higher costs incurred by the European Socialist countries.)
“But given the hysteria whipped up by “ORANGE ALERTS!” and 9-11 rumors as well as the character assassination employed by the CONs on any and all dissent, and it’s not hard to understand why the Dems went along with it.”
Yes, I understand why they went along with it. Because it was politically popular at the time. But it’s all spilled milk now. Dems have the White House and a solid Majority in the Senate and House. They would never have been able to get that accomplished without voting for the war to invade Iraq!
“You are right when you say that the Democrats were too compliant, perhaps even cowardly, to oppose Bush like they should have.”
Hurray for me. To the Plaque Store I go!
Last night’s vote for the $15 Billion Dollar loan guarantees “lost” by a 52-35 vote FOR passage.
All you Bushie-suckers whining that its the Democrats’ fault George WMD Bush’s little Iraqi Adventure wasn’t stopped reveals willful ignorance of how Congress works (and I use that term generously).
Last night, while the rest of the Senate was voting on this issue, John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for 3rd time under while drowning) chose to toss around “bleep” bombs on the David Letterman show.
Actually, the Senate vote was whether Bush should have the authority to make the decision to go to war in Iraq.
At the time the vote was taken, Bush was lying his ass off (because that’s what he does) by saying that “he hadn’t made up his mind” and “we’ll see what the UN does” etc. etc.
As soon as he got the authority, he headed straight for war of course.
To say that Democrats were responsible for the Iraq War is like saying the bartender is responsible for a drunk driver.
“To say that Democrats were responsible”
You could have stopped right there.
SolDevVB posted December 12, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Did you tithe to the goracle cosmos? With ever falling temps, your religion is going to be short on funding soon. Hope you do well with your next “the sky is falling” farce.
Time is on my side. So are the temperatures, by the way.
———————–
More stupid attacks and arm flailing from Sol.
Time and science are against you.
And again, AGW science does not expect temperatures to steadily rise.
El Nino’s, like in 1998 cause short-term rises. La Ninas and volcanoes cause short-term drops. Solar activity, aerosols, etc also influence temperatures.
But AGW continues to produce gradual long-term warming.
It’s roughly like an interest-earning bank account — leave it alone, and the balance will gradually rise. Make a withdrawal (La Nina, solar minimum, volcano, more aerosols, etc), and the balance will (temporarily) drop.
Sol is insisting that the “account” has never earned any interest, because the “balance” does not steadily rise.
Copy copy copy paste paste paste
Insult– “More stupid attacks and arm flailing from Sol.”
Fap fap fap
Call it faith, cosmo. Nothing wrong with that.
CapnAmerica
Posted December 12, 2008 at 3:03 pm | Permalink
To say that Democrats were responsible for the Iraq War is like saying the bartender is responsible for a drunk driver
———————-
Actually in some cities and states, the bartender can be sued for not holding back the liquor of someone who they know is getting drunk and were later involved in an accident.
It’s a real shock that US auto companies are struggling.
Look at the inferior quality of UAW made cars! Quality ratings are lower for US cars and recall rates are much higher for American made vehicles.
Go UAW!
Gee, thanks, Reguliar.
I think I knew that.
Would you say that the bartender is equally responsible as the drunk driver?
Is the gun seller equally responsible for the Columbine High School Massacre?
Are jet plane manufacturers equally responsible as Al Qaeda for the 9-11 attacks?
The correct answer is “no” by the way . . .
The US should NOT be investing Taxpayer Money in Cars.
We should invest in Bicycles instead!
But you EVIL Global Warming Deniers want to continue to make cars and burn cheap gasoline.
You B*stards!
Year ……… Bicycles ……… Cars
……… Million Units
1950 ……… 11 ……… 8
1951 ……… 11 ……… 7
1952 ……… 12 ……… 6
1953 ……… 13 ……… 8
1954 ……… 14 ……… 8
1955 ……… 15 ……… 11
1956 ……… 16 ……… 9
1957 ……… 17 ……… 10
1958 ……… 18 ……… 9
1959 ……… 19 ……… 11
1960 ……… 20 ……… 13
1961 ……… 20 ……… 11
1962 ……… 20 ……… 14
1963 ……… 20 ……… 16
1964 ……… 21 ……… 17
1965 ……… 21 ……… 19
1966 ……… 22 ……… 19
1967 ……… 23 ……… 19
1968 ……… 24 ……… 22
1969 ……… 25 ……… 23
1970 ……… 36 ……… 22
1971 ……… 39 ……… 26
1972 ……… 46 ……… 28
1973 ……… 52 ……… 30
1974 ……… 52 ……… 26
1975 ……… 43 ……… 25
1976 ……… 47 ……… 29
1977 ……… 49 ……… 30
1978 ……… 51 ……… 28
1979 ……… 54 ……… 31
1980 ……… 62 ……… 29
1981 ……… 65 ……… 28
1982 ……… 69 ……… 27
1983 ……… 74 ……… 30
1984 ……… 76 ……… 30
1985 ……… 79 ……… 32
1986 ……… 84 ……… 33
1987 ……… 98 ……… 33
1988 ……… 105 ……… 34
1989 ……… 95 ……… 36
1990 ……… 91 ……… 36
1991 ……… 96 ……… 35
1992 ……… 99 ……… 36
1993 ……… 99 ……… 34
1994 ……… 102 ……… 35
1995 ……… 103 ……… 36
1996 ……… 96 ……… 37
1997 ……… 90 ……… 39
1998 ……… 87 ……… 39
1999 ……… 88 ……… 40
2000 ……… 95 ……… 41
2001 ……… 86 ……… 40
2002 ……… 94 ……… 41
2003 ……… 103 ……… 42
2004 ……… 120 ……… 44
2005 ……… 124 ……… 46
2006 ……… 127 ……… 49
2007 ……… 130 ……… 52
http://www.earth-policy.org/Indicators/Bike/2008_data.htm
I wonder if the UAW workers will make $140,000/year when making bicycles instead of cars?
Pretty pitiful reach there, capn.
Patrick Fitzgerald and Barrack Obama are about the same age and both attended Harvard Law School. Assuming normal progress through college, they must have been Harvard Law School classmates. This may explain a lot. Or it may mean nothing, but I found it to be an interesting coincidence.
Given the many ways Mr. Fitzgerald demonstrated unethical behavior when he announced the charges against Blaggo I am beginning wonder exactly what the hell is going on. Why does Mr. Fitzgerald want to try Blaggo in the media; contrast this with his style as he was persuing the Plame affair. Nothing could be pried from him. Who wanted Blaggo out of office, and why so badly?
When you publish a few sentences out of a two-hour long telephone conversation in a complaint, one wonders what else was said. Read Blaggo’s history; that man is a fighter who earned everything he ever got. He put himself through college packing meat.
If he’s impeached, won’t evidence have to be presented, or in Illinois, is it simply an up and down vote?
And what, oh what does Blaggo know? Remember, the taps weren’t made until late October, when it was almost certain Obama would become president.
Yes, I want Obama to be my shining hero, too, but something stinks.
“Given the many ways Mr. Fitzgerald demonstrated unethical behavior when he announced the charges against Blaggo…”
You people will defend anything.
CapnAmerica
Posted December 12, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Gee, thanks, Reguliar.
I think I knew that.
Would you say that the bartender is equally responsible as the drunk driver?
Is the gun seller equally responsible for the Columbine High School Massacre?
Are jet plane manufacturers equally responsible as Al Qaeda for the 9-11 attacks?
==================================
In the eyes of the law, yes the bartender is responsible for contributing to death or injury since it was within reasonable assumption that he/she could have prevented it by refusing to serve the patron until he/she was inebriated.
It those other cases, you introduce third parties responsible for the acts or you imply there is a tie to a manufacturer when there is not.
You mean deliberately trying to prejudice the entire state so that Blaggo can not get a free trial is not unethical, Bleatwood. You don’t even know what I am talking about.
Looks like even the White House and Treasury see the need for LOANS to the auto makers >>>>
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/12/white-house-considers-tapping-b-fund-auto-industry/
NOW who you gonna blame it on, CONS???
So….. that means McDonald’s wasnt responsible for the woman being stupid enough to spill HOT coffee on herself???
Seems that a jury disagreed…. You are creating another straw man fallacy, Reg.
Lisa Madigan, the attorney general of Illinois is a friend of Obama’s and served in the State Senate at the same time. Now she is trying to get Blaggo declared unfit for office through an appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court. What did Blaggo know? What if the quid pro quo was I won’t tell if you do favor x for me. What do you bet that complete transcripts of all of the tapped calls will never be made available?
Folks, this is not the way things are usually done.
“You don’t even know what I am talking about.”
Sure I do. Obama does too. Dick Turban also.
Now it’s Obama the climate crusader. Help the end of the world is coming. Global warming rules(there isn’t any). Our very lives will be controled by the greenies as if the politicians don’t do enough of it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28141383/
Of all the piss-ant things George WMD Bush has done…here’s the latest.
The people of the United States of America have overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama to be the next Leader of the Free World.
He’ll take office at noon, January, 20, 2009.
But his two grade-schooler daughters will have to show up for school on January 5.
Shrub, in a snit, denied them early occupancy of the White House’s guest quarters, Blair House.
“Go get a Motel 6!”
It should be easy enough to forget about Shrub’s Reign of Error. He’s such a human lightweight and blot on the generally proud history of the office of President of the United States of America.
But this is so petty. So vindictive. So piss-ant.
George WMD Bush — you CONs must be so proud.
Some of the right wing nuts here truly seem to hate Americans. Now it is war on assembly line workers with the attendant lying and misrepresentations…
Now it is the assembly line workers who design the unpopular cars? And claim UAW members earn $140K a year? What wahzoo was that number pulled out of?
Average hourly wage for the men and women is maybe $28/hour – they seem to earn 58K or so… a pretty good living for a working family.
Welcome to the Swiftboating of the American worker.
Monique says:
“So Bonnie is just now turning into a human? If evolution happened billions of years ago, why is she still an orangutan?”
So much wrong with this statement. First of all evolution didn’t stop, it’s an ongoing process. Second, billions of years ago there were no orangutans, the ancestors of the orangutans (our ancestors as well) were single celled organisms. Creationists are the ones who think organisms remained the same throughout the years.
Or was it your argument that since there are humans why are there still other apes? That’s kinda like saying since Americans came from Europe then why are there still Europeans. Or in the case of apes, if you have a cousin then why are you still around?
I’m glad to see that Obama has picked a scientist as energy secretary. Hopefully that will lead to some good science-based policies instead of what we have had for the past 8 years.
Monkeyhawk, just so you understand, it is customary on a blog to post the sources of something you claim. In that way, the folks who know that you will ahem, “shade the truth” at times will know whether you can be believed this time.
Thank you.
Chas
Posted December 12, 2008 at 4:19 pm | Permalink
So….. that means McDonald’s wasnt responsible for the woman being stupid enough to spill HOT coffee on herself???
Seems that a jury disagreed…. You are creating another straw man fallacy, Reg
——————————-
Sorry Chas, dems the facts…
Bars and Bar tenders can be held accountable and are sued successfully all the time because of the bartender’s irresponsible action of serving liquor either illegally or knowing that the patron is going to drive and continue to serve them liquor.
“The people of the United States of America have overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama to be the next Leader of the Free World.”
???? He got just over 50% of the vote.
“fleettwood
Posted December 12, 2008 at 5:36 pm | Permalink
“The people of the United States of America have overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama to be the next Leader of the Free World.”
???? He got just over 50% of the vote.”
That is an overwhelming margin when compared to the % of the vote that the past several elections have been ‘won’ by.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/sorry-were-booked-white-house-tells-obamas/?hp
The Blair House is a private business/hotel that is across the street from the White House. Bush does not have control over who books rooms there. A room will not be available to the Obama’s when they would like to move in. Many of the guests at the Blair House during the time in question are departing Bush staff. It does seem to be a stretch to claim that there was any intention to keep Obama from moving in there when he wanted to.
Some of my prized posssesions are a bunch of letters written in the 1880’s on a Blair House letter head.
“Bars and Bar tenders can be held accountable and are sued successfully all the time because of the bartender’s irresponsible action of serving liquor either illegally or knowing that the patron is going to drive and continue to serve them liquor.”
That is just another ill tenant of the culture of victimhold and irresponsible citizenry that the right-wingers and neo-conservatives have forced most people to become.
(mini-rant)
Possibly the Republicans are doing payback on the UAW for supporting Democrats? UAW did no pay to play?
Or worse, the Republicans are inviting a deepening economic crisis – hoping tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands Americans will lose their jobs and lose their homes creating chaos for the new President to inherit.
“StevenEDavis
Posted December 12, 2008 at 5:41 pm | Permalink
Some of my prized posssesions are a bunch of letters written in the 1880’s on a Blair House letter head.”
Cool!
I hope they are not signed by Abraham Lincoln, though.
If you call 53 percent “just over 50 percent,” then you’d be correct, BDP Fleetie.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/
Considering that WORSTPRESIDENTEVER lost the popular vote to Al Gore by 600,000 votes, Obama’s mandate is fairly strong.
Not only that, WORSTPRESIDENTEVER got only 51 percent of the vote in the 2004 cycle. Obama’s total of 69.5 million (updated numbers) beat WPE’s 62 million by 7.5 million votes.
The will of the people is clear: repudiation of everything CON.
“I hope they are not signed by Abraham Lincoln, though.”
They were not.
Oh, no . . . there’s that song again–
WEEE are the CHAMPIONS my friend
And WE’LL keep on FIGHTING till the end.
WE are the CHAMPIONS
WE are the CHAMPIONS
No time for LOSERS
‘Cause we are the CHAMPIONS
Of the WORLD . . .
Berber–
I don’t know if you’re a CON or Lib.
But no Libs I know want to make excuses for Blagowhatever.
The guy may have a D next to his name but as far as I’m concerned I hope he has a inmate number next to his name from here to eternity.
Corruption like this deserves nothing less than a total smackdown, no excuses.
#
brian_nuevo
Posted December 12, 2008 at 5:43 pm | Permalink
“Bars and Bar tenders can be held accountable and are sued successfully all the time because of the bartender’s irresponsible action of serving liquor either illegally or knowing that the patron is going to drive and continue to serve them liquor.”
That is just another ill tenant of the culture of victimhold and irresponsible citizenry that the right-wingers and neo-conservatives have forced most people to become.
————-
I’m thinking that was more a creation of the trial lawyers, Brian. Hardly a conservative bunch.
Monkeyhawk,
It was announced in an article in the WE a day or 2 ago that the inagural team had said BHObama would take the oath of office as Barack Hussein Obama since it is his full name. But he is not expecting people to call him Hussein instead of Barack.
My nomination for the very best post of the week goes to: RP_McMurphy for his posting of the dog story at 1:59pm today.
Too bad there isn’t a special award for this category every week. Maybe we’d get a little less fighting and name-calling and a little more interesting and intelligent debating of daily issues.
Ah, well, it is kind of like watching tv on here; I can always skip a post & tune out!
A great post about Steven Chu, Obama’s choice for Secretary of Energy.
‘Chuse Science’
http://www.desmogblog.com/steven-chu-science-obama
“. . .and has himself transformed into a climate campaigner who put it like this in an interview with Science: “This is a problem we have to address, and we have a limited amount of time to do it. What we do in the first half of this century, we will see the consequences for the next 500 to 1000 years.” “
He’s still innocent until proven guilty, capt. The whole country seems to have forgotten that. A few quotes in a complaint don’t mean anything.
Maggot,
Thanks for your response. Your last paragraph is what I was asking about. However, Europeans came to America by choice, not chance. Some Europeans chose to stay in Europe. I doubt some orangutans chose to remain that way while others didn’t. So why didn’t they all evolve?
If evolution is an ongoing process, why are so many people worried about global warming? Hey, we’ll all just evolve into warm weather beings!
Seriously, does a whistling ape really prove anything?
Humans didn’t descend from apes, humans share a common ancestor with apes.
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lindainks55
Posted December 12, 2008 at 8:25 pm | Permalink
Humans didn’t descend from apes, humans share a common ancestor with apes.
———————–
And the name of that common ancestor is?
Does it have a name? I don’t have a clue. My knowledge is slim to none, but I do know those who question, “IF we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?” have less an understanding than I do.
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lindainks55
Posted December 12, 2008 at 8:34 pm | Permalink
Does it have a name? I don’t have a clue. My knowledge is slim to none, but I do know those who question, “IF we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?” have less an understanding than I do.
————————————–
Well, you made a claim. I don’t care if there is a name or not, where is the evidence that links apes and humans?
You know, the missing link…
Where is it?
“You know, the missing link…
Where is it?” — Regular
————–
I don’t know that either. How much of ’slim to none’ leaves room for debate? I know that the theory of evolution doesn’t state that humans descended from apes. As far as discussing that theory, I can’t. I am able to read what the theory is but have no knowledge that makes me capable of discussing that theory.
The post below made me think the poster was making an argument about the theory of evolution without knowledge of what the theory states, thus my post.
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Monique_J
Posted December 12, 2008 at 9:25 am | Permalink
Maggot,
So Bonnie is just now turning into a human? If evolution happened billions of years ago, why is she still an orangutan?
*************
I dont recall maggot saying that Bonnie IS turning into a human…. just that she is evolving….
Oh yea, not to be picky, but not ALL Europeans came here by choice — Some came here as indentured servants… Others sent here to the penal colonies in Georgia, etc. Someone needs to do some homework…. LOL
Maggotpunk posted a cite from Science Daily about an orangutan that had learned to whistle.
Thanks Linda!!
Lucy (Australopithecus) is in the lineage, we believe…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_(Australopithecus)
I’m not sure if Maggot and Linda agree on the same theory of evolution. Maggot will probably shed more light on that.
Charles,
Some Europeans may not have come here by their own choice, but it was someone’s choice that they were brought here. It wasn’t by chance.
This newspaper is too far to the right. I can prove this as right wing wackos think it is to the left.
Regular,
Monique_J is the poster you need to be questioning. Seems s/he has much more understanding and knowledge of the theory of evolution than I do. ;-)
“You know, the missing link…
Where is it?”
Uh, you?
“Regular” asks –
“And the name of that common ancestor is?”
Larry
So this is what the evolutionists pin their hopes on?
Lucy
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Lucy_Mexico.jpg
There is an absolute certainty with certain types of evolution though.
The evolution of dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg
:)
Of course, there is they cyber revolution evolution of dance…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1vjDxqNy5A&feature=related
Here’s one to chew on.
The bible PROVES natural selection.
IF you accept Genesis as literal, this means that humanity begins with one man and one woman.
(DNA analysis shoots this all to hell, but let’s continue)
SO, from one man and one woman less than 10,000 years ago, you get the distribution of various races of human beings over the entire inhabitable surface of the planet.
Hell that is natural selection on STEROIDS!
SO, if the bible proves natural selection. And if natural selection is the chief moving force in evolution….
Well then the bible PROVES that it is wrong and that evolutionary theory is correct.
“God” is of course invited to weigh in on the debate.
“Monique” —
To use your own argument, then nobody who came here came here by chance… since you argue that even if it was not by the choice of the individual, it was by the choice of somebody…. Hmmmm…. Then I suppose you would also argue rather stupidly that those brought here in irons, and in slavery, came here by choice as well….
My, what stupidity reigns here!!! LOL
Get over yourself…. MANY came here by no choice of their own…. which, of course, you already know…
BlueJay — Well done, except for one minor detail in that 10,000 year plan…. It really doesnt start with adam and eve…. it really starts with 8 individuals… Noah and his wife, their three sons and their wives… and thus, it is LESS than even their irrational 10,000 superstition calls for…
Chas,
Obviously, those who came here in irons did not choose to. Someone else chose to bring them here. I already said that. What is your point?
“Corruption like this deserves nothing less than a total smackdown, no excuses.”
Amen.
“Monique” —
My point is that you are either entirely looney, or a really poor student of history…
“Monique” — I never said anybody DID come here by chance… I have no clue where you got that idea…. My point is that if you were FORCED to come here, then it is either by some form of legal edict, or just plain kidnapping…. What is your friggin point??
Chas,
So far you have called me stupid, looney and a poor student of history. I already said no one came here by chance. Your post at 10:20 basically said what I had previously said, so I guess we are in the same boat.
“Monique_J” –
If we are to believe what most people accept as the prehistoric Land Bridge across the Bering Strait, there’s probably a good case human being showed up in the Americas on the chance of killing one of those reindeer who tended to be tasty.
Some of them migrated south (where it isn’t FERRREEEZING!!! and others migrated east because, for all I know, there was no television on the West Coast yet; I dunno.
I always have liked the Canadian tern “First Nations’ People” to our “Native Americans.” The term “native” lead to people like William Jennings Bryan who complained at the Scopes trial, “Darwin didn’t have the common decency to say we evolved from New World monkeys!”
John Stewart Mill pegged it with, “It’s not that all CONservatives are stupid; it’s that most stupid people are CONservatives.”
good night; good luck; god bless —
whatever you conceive god to be!!
blessings ALL!!
blessings on the UAW workers!!
so mote it be!!
Monique says:
“Thanks for your response. Your last paragraph is what I was asking about. However, Europeans came to America by choice, not chance. Some Europeans chose to stay in Europe. I doubt some orangutans chose to remain that way while others didn’t. So why didn’t they all evolve?
If evolution is an ongoing process, why are so many people worried about global warming? Hey, we’ll all just evolve into warm weather beings!
Seriously, does a whistling ape really prove anything?”
Apparently you didn’t get the analogy. Nevertheless, humans didn’t evolve from apes, we share a common ancestor. We know we are closely related to the apes because of our DNA. Only hominids share a broken gene which codes for production of vitamin C (if it wasn’t broken we wouldn’t have to worry about scurvy). Humans, unlike the other apes have a fused chromosome, that if left separate, would give us the same number of chromosomes as the apes (we have 23 pairs, they have 24).
Most likely our common ancestor is Australopithecus africanus which lived 2 to 3 million years ago. Back then there were no orangutans, chimps, gorillas, etc. to evolve from. Their ancestors were to branch off and develop into what they are today while we followed our own evolutionary path.