Advocates of gay rights (and presumably abortion rights) are upset about President-elect Barack Obama’s choice of pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation on Inauguration Day. But Warren, leader of Southern California’s Saddleback Church, is a widely known and respected figure in American faith, perhaps the Billy Graham of the times. With the pick, Obama clearly is trying to reach out to all Americans. Restating today that he is a “fierce advocate for equality” for gays and lesbians, Obama said that America needs to “come together,” despite disagreement on social issues. And didn’t the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy demonstrate the folly of trying to pin the entirety of a pastor’s beliefs on a candidate by association?
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Sarah Posner writes on TheNation.com:
“Now it has officially gone too far: Democrats, in their zeal to appear friendly to evangelical voters, have chosen celebrity preacher and best-selling author Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama’s inauguration.
There was no doubt that Obama, like every president before him, would pick a Christian minister to perform this sacred duty. But Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service but a bow to the
continuing influence of the religious right in American politics. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.”
Nice job obama. Way to be a uniter not a divider.
He’s more like bushco than even the most paranoid among us believed.
Way to unite us!
“Obama said that America needs to “come together,”
Obama is a naive panderer. Is he DEAF and blind to the attacks on him from the right? You CAN’T be nice with those people. They don’t speak it.
Only “coming together” I want with them is along the shaft of a spear.
Jesus wept rhonda. Have you READ anything today about this pick?
“With the pick, Obama clearly is trying to reach out to all Americans.”
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Yeah. The lgbt community feels “reached out”. Non christians feel “reached out”. Jewish people feel “reached out”. Pro choice people feel “reached out”. Non wingnut women feel “reached out”.
Did you know that all women who work at Saddleback MUST be supervised by a man?
In what alternate universe is the pick “reaching out” to anyone but evangelical wingnuts and bigots?
You wiffed on this one. Uniter indeed.
Oh the left — what can we say about them .. they are truely the “evolved ones” — full of tollerance and acceptance — if we could only be more like them — our world would finally come together — I’m starting to kinda’ like this Obama guy (although I must say I didn’t at first) he’s starting to grow on me — I’d like to say (as John Lennon) let’s just give him a chance . . . . peace
So?
I GUESS he was partially successful Rhonda?
Do ya feel “reached out to”? Or, is this thread meant to twist the knife?
Obama has pandered to you and yours. Where is the return from your side?
I’ve an idea Rhonda.
Obama reached out to YOU. You reach back.
Give us a thread about how Dick Cheney may be guilty of war crimes. Or, maybe a lament on the MANY wrongs and abuses of the last 8 years as seen from the point of the abuser?
I feel totally reached out to — maybe Obama is after all “the one I have waited for” — I’ll just have to wait and see
Coming as I do originally from the right, I know those people. They NEVER deal or compromise unless they think it gets them something going forward. You have to deal with them with the same idea. THEY need to back down.
“Yeah. The lgbt community feels “reached out”. Non christians feel “reached out”. Jewish people feel “reached out”. Pro choice people feel “reached out”. Non wingnut women feel “reached out”.”
===========================================
So who exactly is being the “divider” in this situation? The LGBT toddlers who are howling mad and throw a fit if they do not get their way?
Or Obama who says he is for Gay rights but wants to “reach out” to those who believe in the traditional definition of marriage?
Picking Warren is simply a token gesture. Nothing more nothing less.
Ultimately it matters little. But lets be sure to act like immature little brats over it okay?
I hope everyone has a comfortable seat, because, BHO is just beginning to disappoint the people who adore him.
Dear Bluejay — do I sense a tinge of hostility in your post — do you have veins popping from your neck — if you’ll just place your index fingers atop your thumbs and sit for an hour or two in a lotis position and say to yourself — OOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMM OOOHHHHHMMMMM OOOHHHHMMMMMMMMMM oooohhhhhhmmmmmm ! ! ! you’ll find that your ‘melt-down might subside ———– peace brother
An invocation is more than “reaching out.” While it doesn’t mean much to me, the millions of Christians it does. The symbolism of it is frightening.
But notice Obama said today that he is a “fierce advocate” for equality? That’s because of the pressure.
Let’s make sure his follows through on the specific promises made on change.gov.
Oddly enough, this could turn out to be quite the political bargaining chip, but only if we make our displeasure loud and clear, and specifically tie it to enacting the promised legislation.
You know, Barry Goldwater came to support gay rights. I think I’ll remind John McCain of that, and how much we need to work together for the good of the nation, ya know?
Cold, clear calculation here daddyo.
You cons are in the wilderness and on the verge of civil war. We can afford dissent on this side.
Put simply? Obama needs to decide sooner rather than later what party he intends to represent in his bid for re election. He begins to make that decision under serious scrutiny on day 1 of his administration. Many of us were never under his spell to begin with.
Trust, but verify.
Ronald Reagan
Internet petitions are a dime-a-dozen, but here:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/against-Rick-Warren
And don’t forget to leave a comment at change.gov.
BlueJay
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:52 pm | Permalink
You cons are in the wilderness and on the verge of civil war.
—————————————————-
We can only hope. We are the one’s with the guns afterall.
Happiness is a warm gun mama — bang bang - shoot shoot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw9w-C_TRl0
what’s all the fuss about
Kia,
You better hope not! You cons will end up killing a lot more of each other than you will of us!
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator [GOD] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ——— Thank you Jesus
I wonder how many more evangelical votes Obama got than glbt votes?
Obama is representing the 90 percent of Americans who think they are religious.
He was elected on a platform of “Change”. He claims that to be politics as usual in Washington. This move at least is a step in that direction.
I’ve said before those that expected this to be some kind of left revolution are sorely mistaken.
Fools.
Amen! Preach it brother!
Cast down the sinner into the pit!
Sorry, I was evangelizing.
The biggest change offered by Obama is a dolt will no longer be in the Oval Office.
Shrub has screwed up so many things, Barack is compelled to compile an agenda of priorities.
First things first, and all that.
I might have personal priorities, but I can’t get too upset by Obama thinking the economy might be a bigger challenge right now than, say, the rules on what constitutes organic milk.
Now, for the advocates of organic milk, it might seem to be a sell-out to Big Milk (and I can understand their frustration to a point), but there are bigger fish to fry.
TWEEET! Flag on the play!
I’m guilty. 15-yard penalty for mixing metaphors.
If it were up to me I’d nationalize every American airliner and fly ‘em to Baghdad and bring home every American in Iraq. Case closed.
I’m not gonna get my way. But I feel better with Obama at the helm than with the last 8 years of Srub and (the big) Dick.
Twenty-plus years of CONs advocating deregulation resulted in the economic Ponzi Scheme on Wall Street, at your local bank, at your home during the real estate bubble, in your 401(k) that purportedly was superior to Social Security, in your wallet full of credit cards. All that’s not gonna change 30 days before Obama’s inauguration.
Liberals’ expectations might be too lofty for reality, but the CONs are left with nothing but straw man arguments to insist the Obama Administration is a failure even before it begins.
“Obama is representing the 90 percent of Americans who think they are religious”
100% of Americans are religious. 10% just don’t realize it.
MH, I realize John Conyers will have lot on his plate (like everyone), but nothing will prevent legislation that’s languishing for years from getting introduced.
Where it goes from there is another matter.
Joe Biden just sent me an e-mail asking for money.
Hehehehe, yeah you betcha, Joe.
I wrote back DUMP RICK WARREN NOW and don’t ask me for anything else ever until you do.
info@barackobama.com
CapnAmerica
Posted December 18, 2008 at 2:06 pm | Permalink
[snip]
and don’t ask me for anything else ever until you do.
Do let us know how that works out for you ;~>
Picking Warren is simply a token gesture. Nothing more nothing less.
Ultimately it matters little. But lets be sure to act like immature little brats over it okay?
*****
So, RFL wouldn’t mind at all if Obama chose religious leader Louis Farrakan. Or might he too act like an immature little brat?
“I hope everyone has a comfortable seat, because, BHO is just beginning to disappoint the people who adore him.”
That’s the difference between us and you CONs, GunGodNot . . . we know our elected leaders who have to be held accountable, not followed blindly like you people did with Bush.
It’s gonna work out great, Sol.
Because unlike you and Bush, we’re going keep Obama honest.
Participartory democracy doesn’t mean you vote every four years and keep your fingers crossed . . .
You know, as a conservative I confess, I am really loving this. Obama tells everyone that he is running to unite the country. The wackos hear but they think that he will come around and let them tell him what to do. So they vote for him.
He hasn’t even started his presidency and they are in a snit because he didn’t do exactly what they want. He has the nerve to ask a mainstream Christian preacher to be involved in his inauguration.
I sense there will be more fun to be had as the far left gets disappointed more often. But I am not under any illusions that Obama is anything but a liberal. I will only be pleasantly surprised when he does something that leans conservative.
Hey cheif…..nobody is freaking out.
We hired the guy to come to the middle and unite this f’ed up country.
That’s what he means to do.
Those that don’t like it need to help or get the hell out of the way.
Hear, hear, RP. Even if we have to hold our noses while he does it.
“So, RFL wouldn’t mind at all if Obama chose religious leader Louis Farrakan. Or might he too act like an immature little brat?”
If that is what Obama really wants, I would be happy if Obama did just that. I am not opposed to people doing exactly what they want to do. That helps everyone else know who they really are. Politicans don’t follow this MO however.
The only thing we can judge from this pick is that Obama wants the 47% of those who voted against him because of his socially liberal positions, to find a way to support him. If it means ultralibs like Capn and farmgrrl are thrown under the bus, so be it. They will vote Democratic in 2012 anyways no matter who conducts the invocation.
Guaranteed.
He has the nerve to ask a
mainstream Christian preacherlying bigot to be involved in his inauguration.Fixed that for you.
Warren didn’t just say he opposed gay couples getting married. He went out of his way to take rights away from people who weren’t doing his the slightest harm, and made some truly outrageous statements in the process.
The man is a bully.
I understand Obama’s argument about working together, but letting this go without pointedly noting the fact would ill-serve future attempts to work together for equality.
Finding common ground requires some effort from both sides, you know.
Capn, FYI, “info” mailboxes are set up process information requests automatically. A human will never see what you wrote.
“we know our elected leaders who have to be held accountable”
You people did a good job of that with bill “lie-to-a-grand-jury” clinton.
“He went out of his way to take rights away from people who weren’t doing his the slightest harm”
Rage implies that a homosexual has to do someone else harm in order for that harmed person to have a good reason to believe that marriage is strictly a man and a woman.
Where does he get this idea?
I believe that 2+2=4. And surprisingly enough, I believe that even though I have never been harmed by people who think that 2+2=3.
“Finding common ground requires some effort from both sides, you know.”
————
Calling Rick Warren a lying bigot isn’t what I would call a good start from you Rage.
The truth is that every swingin’ dick in this screwed up place needs to do the next right thing, that is, get on board with those who are trying to do good.
Even if you think Warren is misguided, it would take a bigger nutball than RP McMurphy to really believe he is evil or mean spirited.
Obviously we have a couple. But hey the Holidays are fruitcake season.
Yeah but, but, but Warren is supported by CONS!
You know, that catch all phrase for anybody that is believed or accused of representing anything BAD. CONS, yeah thats it, those people support Warren. That is why he is BAD. Real BAD.
You know that guy that lives on your street that you do not like? He is a CON. Spread the word. We need to unify the country against CONS. CONS are the enemy, THEY are dividing this country. Eliminate the CONS! Make sure he knows that he is not welcome in this CON-free neighborhood.
=========================================
The city of Salem in 17th century would be proud of the CON hunt that is pursued by the Left nowadays. Funny thing is, they actually believe that they are tolerant!
What’s funny is duh Libs are 100 times more sanctimonious about people than Christians are. They are constantly judging people and saying how much better the libs are - sad.
BlueJay Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:34 pm |
“Coming as I do originally from the right, I know those people.
What a bold face lie, and not a very good one at that. BlowJay has never been conservative, never, he’s too lazy. He want’s someone else to do it for him, and if they won’t he wants the government to take it for him. What a slug.
“I’ve said before those that expected this to be some kind of left revolution are sorely mistaken.
Fools.”—Mr. Kia
Right Mr. Kia, and another thing, now that Barry is getting closer to his elected office the realities of the world situation and democratic majority opinion are winning the way.
“I sense there will be more fun to be had as the far left gets disappointed more often.”
Outlander, I can’t wait, I can’t wait!
Wow…looking down through the posts today both here and on the ‘Open Thread’ it is obvious the ‘chicken farmer’ is FREAKED OUT!!!
And I’m sitting here LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF!!!
Thanks farmer for the funny distraction from the depressing stock market and commodity prices.
Oh, one question….what’s a gay band? I never heard of such a thing, didn’t know they existed as a separate entity. Do they hold their instruments differently? Oh, never mind.
A gay band? That must mean they hate straights. Can you imagine the uproar if there was a straight band?
“Monique_J
Posted December 18, 2008 at 4:57 pm | Permalink
A gay band? That must mean they hate straights. Can you imagine the uproar if there was a straight band?”
ummm…. there are a lot of straight bands
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Sometimes, when everyone is pissed off at a politician’s decision, it might be the right thing to do.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/504326.aspx
It seems the twice-born and advocates of illegal abortion are against Warren, too!
“”dadman
Posted December 18, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator ….Thank you Jesus”
and thank you God
and thank you Mother Earth
and thank you Brahma
and thank you Curare-woman
and thank you Baiame
and thank you Great Spirit
It doesn’t matter who he picks to deliver the invocation, some group or groups would be ticked off. Better to get this out of the way; a month after the inauguration, it’ll be forgotten. Way to many other things out there a bit more important, like, the war, the economy, energy, etc..
“JMWalker
Posted December 18, 2008 at 5:13 pm | Permalink
It doesn’t matter who he picks to deliver the invocation, some group or groups would be ticked off.”
Exactly!
“What a bold face lie, and not a very good one at that. BlowJay has never been conservative, never, he’s too lazy. ”
A BETTER man would call me a liar to my face. But you were not up to that.
You’re right to a degree. YOUR brand of conservatism finds no hold in me. But I DID vote a straight con ticket in 1984. I subsequently found out that abusing the environment and fellow human beings was not for me. I also don’t do hypocrisy well, an absolute MUST for today’s “conservative”.
Check the last couple of elections. I aint alone.
“It doesn’t matter who he picks to deliver the invocation, some group or groups would be ticked off.”
It doesn’t matter what he does on anything, there are going to be people ticked off.
This is just a generally ticked off society anymore.
“A gay band? That must mean they hate straights. Can you imagine the uproar if there was a straight band?”
That’s sounds a lot like the “HAY IF THERE WAS A WHITE ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION THAT WOULD BE RACIST AMIRITE GUYS” argument.
Most bands are straight bands because that’s the dominant culture. Gay bands simply take pride in a minority culture.
Also, while initally steamed at this initial choice of Rick Warren, I do think that is a token offering to the losing side. I don’t believe that Obama has a hidden agenda to keep gays from getting equal rights.
But as as CapnAmerica says, we’re less prone to follow blindly. I’m waiting to see what actions Obama takes to extend civil rights to gays, an extremely important issue to my generation. He’s got four years to impress or disgust us.
“Boxlock20″ –
For the life of me I cannot figure out how you supposedly “took ‘BlueJay’ to school.”
Sounds to me like you agreed to a meet-up and stood him up.
I can’t read minds. I can’t tell if that was your goal all along or if you simply chickened out of a cup’o'joe with someone you generally don’t agree with.
But “…took BlueJay to school?!” That’s a stretch.
I’m amazed at the kind of mind which could allege otherwise.
“I don’t believe that Obama has a hidden agenda to keep gays from getting equal rights.”
I agree Tara.
It isnt hidden at all. It’s right out front. It’s been out front since he let donnie mcclurkin headline, mc, and preach at his fundraiser.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Obama needs to hit up bigotbawks and his ilk for money in four years. I think the lgbt well has gone dry, except for a few vichy queers like melissa etheridge.
Hi Tara.
I brought kfg and bawks over to read what you wrote. I hope you don’t mind my using you to make a point.
“I’m waiting to see what actions Obama takes to extend civil rights to gays, an extremely important issue to my generation. He’s got four years to impress or disgust us.”
There ya go bawks. Take heart farmgrrl.
THAT’s the future talking.
And thank you Tara. Interested and informed and involved young people are our most valuable natural resource.
“And thank you Tara. Interested and informed and involved young people are our most valuable natural resource.”
I agree. Too bad the old farts who THINK they are liberal dont take a lesson.
“It isnt hidden at all. It’s right out front. It’s been out front since he let donnie mcclurkin headline, mc, and preach at his fundraiser.”
How many times do vichy queers and limo liberals need to get hit over the head before they look to see who is really hitting them?
I assume the gay band does not allow straights in the band. If the tables were turned and there was such a thing as a straight band that did not allow gays, some people would consider that bigotry. The door should swing both ways.
jesus WEPT. If “monique” knew WTF she was talking about, it would be funny.
As is? Just pathetic.
There ya liberals. “She” is the new face of the obama camp.
ESAD
Brought anyone to christ with that attitude “monique”?
She’s the face of christianity in america.
You all must be so proud…
So “monique”, if you are smarter than a fifth grader, explain the difference between rick warren and this asshat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Robb
Do you agree HE should be on the agenda too?
Gee, what a surprise. Crickets chirping.
Big talk. Little sense.
The face of the obama camp.
Monique,
Here’s an example of how I try to explain the “dominant culture” thing.
Suppose you have a group of ladies who all hail from Greece who have settled in the US. They have similar cultural upbringings and a similar history. They enjoy traditional Greek food and philosophizing about the Greek Orthodox Church and they read Greek romance novels and watch Greek movies. They cluck about their Greek daughters and Greek grandchildren. They are a minority, and are bonded by their unique identity.
Now, suppose if some WASP male wanted to join the Greek ladies group. If the WASP male also was very knowledgeable about Greek culture and sincerely interested in it, they might accept him. However, if they limited their group to ONLY Greek women, it would be understandable.
Now, if you had a group open up on the same side of town called the “Not Greek” group, this would be bigoted. Because there is no unifying theme holding together the “Not Greek” group except, well, they’re Not Greek. They exist solely to exclude a minority group.
The parallels are not perfect, but I hope it makes sense. A “straight” band, which presumably wouldn’t allow gays, exists only to exclude. A “gay band”, which might take straights who advocate gay rights or which might limit its members to gays, exist to share a common bond.
Most bands are presumed to be “straight” because that’s the norm. There’s no need for an identifier.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Sorry but I have no reason to believe “Monique_J” has anything in common with the Obama “camp.”
I don’t agree with the Warren decision. But I don’t think it’s as big as you (or the twice-born; see my Dr Pepper post above) think, nor do I think it’ll make any difference.
If they’d asked me I would have recommended Obama or the Congressional Inaugural Committee (whoever made the decision) choose a front-line military chaplain from Iraq or Afghanistan be flown in for the invocation.
And then I’d say, why bother with an invocation and benediction for what is a secular procedure.
I really, really don’t like Rick Warren’s worldview. But I’m liberal enough to consider maybe, just maybe, he’s trying to bring the twice-born back from the brink of wing-nuttiness.
Baby steps, not leaps. That’s the lesson of revolution.
Revolutions are high jumps, not broad jumps. You garner all your energy and fly so high in the air. But in the end, you land pretty close to where you took off.
From a post over at DU. Too bad no one here is this big.
“Grand Apology to Those Here Who Saw This Betrayal Coming.
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The anger should not be at Rick Warren who is a systemic homophobe who used his power and influence to hurt my GLBT brothers and sisters here in California.
The anger should squarely be to Barack Obama who has now chosen this homophobic charlatan to stand before the world with the next President.
To those who I gave so much shit here for their concern during the McClurkin episodes: I am very, very sorry.
I will not watch the inauguration. I could care fucking less.
I’ve been at the DU since early 2001. The permitted homophobic posts and commentary is just about reached its final limits with me.
Anita Bryant might as well be up on that stage with Obama, too.
I got the message now.
We were betrayed.”
IIRC, Monkeyhawk, you didnt think mcclurkin was any big deal either.
Exactly HOW MANY times do you need to be hit over the head before you see it?
I remember you used the “flavor” term with mcclurkin too.
Thanks for showing us how deeply you do not get it.
Tara, First of all, thank you soooooo much for a civil answer. I see your point. I’m not sure a totally agree with it, but I respect you for being civil. So many people on this board seem to be full of hatred. If we are going to find common ground, we need to be able to communicate without being hateful about it. Your post was a breath of fresh air.
Four years from now you will still be apologizing for this piece of shit.
“If we are going to find common ground”
Please dont labor under the illusion that there will EVER be common ground with bigots like you. I’d be ashamed to be on common ground with bigots like you.
ESAD
I wonder if “monique” is really gail finney.
You too share a lot in common.
Bigots of a feather and all….
“But I’m liberal enough to consider maybe, just maybe, he’s trying to bring the twice-born back from the brink of wing-nuttiness.”
Um, yeah. Because being the head of a church where women are allowed to work, but ONLY if they are supervised by a man, is taking baby steps away from wingnuttia. Ditto on condeming Jews to eternal hell. Steps AWAY from wingnuttia.
Right. You betchya.
Farm Girl, You gave me exactly two minutes to respond. Try to relax. I was gone to another board for a couple minutes. I don’t see any similarities at all. Please point them out to me. And what attitude are you referring to? Excuse me for having an opinion that you don’t agree with.
I asked you to point out the differences.
Please do so.
Or perhaps, you cant?
Because you think it’s just fine to honor someone who compares gay marriage to incest and being a pedophile?
Let’s hear it smart “girl”. Explain the differences.
Here is the link again, just in case you are not bright enough to find it yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Robb
Let’s see obama reach out to him.
Who wants to be there will be NO explanation from gail, er “monique”?
Played at a lesbian bar here in Wichita back in the early seventies. Straight band in a gay bar . . . whodathunk?
Best damn time we had playing at any bar, in my opinion. Can’t remember the name, though.
I have no idea what constitutes a “gay” band, but I’m sure there are some.
I’d much prefer an inaugural parade with a few of the participants of Pasadena’s Doo-Dah Parade.
http://www.pasadenadoodahparade.info/
If anyone doesn’t love the precision lawn-mower pushers and the folks who march with coordinated briefcase tricks, I hope I owe them money.
At it is so, y’know, gay!
I read somewhere about all the high school bands competing for a place in the inaugural parade; the bake sales in Hog Jowls, Arkansas to send the “Marching Catfish” to Washington… all that quadrennial pap that generally passes for “news” this time of year;
The GLBT community has no choice to vote meaningfully in a state such as Kansas. I hope only that the GLBTs in battleground states held their noses and voted for Obama. I suspect they did.
Thank goodness.
I sincerely believe the GLBT issue has better prospects (maybe even especially due to the Warren flap, ’cause you’ll begin with making him defensive) than under John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term). I really believe that.
I’m encouraged by reading some twice-born blogs that are just as angry as you are…but at Warren! For fraternizing with Obama!
Liberals against Warren: dog bites man. No news.
Evangelicals against Warren: man bites dog.
Keep ‘em fighting amongst themselves.
It’e never fun taking one for the team, “ksfarmgrrl,” and I don’t blame you for resenting it. But thanks.
We’ll get back to you and, if I’m representative in any way of the “Obama Camp,” we’ll make some progress.
I’ll wait right here while obama reaches out to someone from the discovery institute as well.
‘Cause ya know, rick warren doesnt think evolution is real either.
I wonder how all you global warming guys would feel about someone from the discovery institute on the program as well.
Seems like mighty selective “reaching out”.
Thanks for proving, once again, how DEEPLY you do NOT get it.
Clueless. Just clueless.
I guess “monique” must be on another board again.
Either that, or she cant answer the question.
Another con who answers questions with questions.
Who compared gay marriage to incest and being a pedophile? You may not believe it, but I really am trying to figure out where you are coming from.
And yes, I am going back and forth between three boards.
It might turn out Barack Obama is the most gifted politician in our nation’s history.
Somehow he got the CONs to rant about his alleged “Marxism” and “Stalinism” and “Muhammadism” and distracted Hillary Clinton and McPalin from the real issues (the economy, the war in Iraq, et al) real people voted on.
Politics, they say, is “the art of the possible.” And Barack Obama’s presidency is a stunning example of achieving the “impossible.” An African-American president? Whose middle name is Hussein? C’mon. That was impossible this time a year ago.
The term “Machiavellian” generally gets a bad rap, and probably should. But politics isn’t beanbag and I’m pretty impressed with Obama’s approach to the game. You might feel you’ve been thrown under the bus, “ksfarmgrrl,” but the bus is finally going in the right direction.
Farm Girl, Since you don’t believe in God, I assume you are a Darwinist. From what I have read, Darwin believed that women were biologically and intellectually inferior to men. Among other things, he also said women have smaller brains than men and was amazed that such different beings belonged to the same species. However, he did agree that having a wife was better than having a dog! Would you rather have him at the inaugoration when Warren?
when = than
KFG, I see your point.
While it would make me pull my hair out if Obama reached out to the Discovery Institute by inviting one of their leaders to the convention, I wouldn’t worry until he actually took steps to validate their nonsense. Like suggesting that intelligent design should be taught in schools or that text books need a disclaimer.
I’d assume it was some token gesture to the creationist cooks in the name of “unity”, until he actually starts to do something of substance that is ridiculous.
Monique,
I think that you’ll find people to be fiercly passionate about issues that personal to them. As a gay woman, KFG’s rage against the anti-gay bigots is understandable because it’s attack on her life, personally. Nathan will get upset at people insulting the military, because he’s a Marine. And determined stupidity/creationism will get me fired up because I’m a biologist.
Farm Girl, OK what question have I not answered? I apologize but this laptop I am on is extremely slow. Every time I try to post something it takes forever. Seriously.
And for the record, it doesn’t matter if Darwin thought that all little girls should be burned with fire. He was spot on with his idea of descent with modification which came from his natural observations.
Evolution isn’t true “because Darwin says so”.
Not to derail.
I’m off to get some food, talk to everyone later.
“Monique_J” asks –
“Who compared gay marriage to incest and being a pedophile?”
Uhm.
That would be Rick Warren.
It’s been in the news.
It’s not as if “ksfarmgrrl” doesn’t have a valid issue.
Gay activists are giving Rick Warren the full treatment, accusing him of homophobia and hate speech and of comparing gay marriage to incest. None of this is true, as the mainstream press will eventually get around to mentioning, perhaps as early as next week.
Warren supports full rights and privileges for civil unions — health and insurance benefits, visiting rights, etc. — and has done so for some time. He simply does not want to alter a definition of marriage that has been supported in every culture and every religion for some 5,000 years. A large majority of Americans feel that way. Are they all “homophobes” or do they just have a conception of marriage different from that of gay activists?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-leo/rick-warren-and-gays_b_152166.html
——————-
Fresh from the Huffington Post no less we find out that all of the lies about what Warren said about incest and pedeophilia are false.
Why bother with facts when lies work so well to stir up the natives?
Here is rick warren in his own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZMf9mPB_nE
And germie, that was written by John Leo. Look him up.
“monique” either answer the question or admit you cannot.
Tell me how Dr. Thomas Robb and Rick Warren are different.
You play stupid really, REALLY well.
Another con who answers questions with questions.
Yeah, okobserver, it is amazing how those folks can be fired up at will by their website masters pushing their buttons.
Motivated by your post demonstrating their, ahem.. . misunderstanding of the facts, Monkey and Rage and them will be probably soon be expressing regret for their insults and deception.
Right after monkeys come out their butt.
Grmie, you are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
Please post where warren supports equal rights for civil unions.
Because that is NOT what he says here.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/rick-warrens-controversial-com.html
dumbass
Frmgrl I watched the video and that isn’t at all what he said. He used the same arguments that many on here have used. By opening up the definition of marriage you would have to allow any relationship that the participants deemed to be their ‘right’. That would include a brother marrying his sister.
You can’t win an argument by deceptioin and that video clearly shows that Warren is not homophobic and has been very generous financially with his help with the AIDS community.
I can’t say I am as troubled by this as you are farmgrrl because I do not have your perspective.
I do NOT agree with this choice. And it DOES let us know that we will have to keep Obama on notice that he was NOT elected to please the cons.
But I ask you to find some reassurance in this.
NEVER EVER before has a US President so paid at least LIP service to gay rights. Consider the remarkable progress the issue that this is. It would have been unthinkable only a few years ago. Obama in his OWN words promised to work toward gay rights. That he blunts the message with this questionable choice IS very much regrettable. But don’t lose sight of progress.
Who you gonna believe. Germie? Or a video and then an interview of rick warren spouting his bigotry in his own words?
This is not a pipe, according to outie.
Jesus WEPT! They dont even believe it when it’s warren in his own words.
Please post a link to where warren supports equal rights for civil unions.
Or…????
STFU
Oh for god’s sake JR. Even george bush says he’s against discrimination against gay people.
AND he’s for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
lip service? Now THERE is some “progress” to be proud of….
“Please post where warren supports equal rights for civil unions.”
He says it on the video you told me to watch. Actually listen to his words and open your mind. He said his objection was to changing a 5000 year definition of marriage but he would support equal benefits and civil unions. His own words. And BTW my eyes are blue.
Watch the video. Read the interview. Then tell me…
Who you gonna believe? Germie? Or your own lyin’ eyes?
KFG, OK I read your article. What does Warren have to do with the KKK? I’ve never been to his church but I have a feeling some of the members are african-american.
From the interview grmie claims to know about.
“BELIEFNET: One controversial moment for you in the last election was your support for proposition 8 in California. … Just to clarify, do you support civil unions or domestic partnerships?
WARREN: I don’t know if I’d use the term there but I support full equal rights for everybody in America. I don’t believe we should have unequal rights depending on particular lifestyles so I fully support equal rights.
[Clarification from Pastor Warren 12/15: I now see you asked about civil UNIONS -and I responded by talking about civil RIGHTS. Sorry. They are two different issues. No American should ever be discriminated against because of their beliefs. Period. But a civil union is not a civil right. Nowhere in the constitution can you find the "right" to claim that any loving relationship identical to marriage. It's just not there. ]”
Still waiting on you to post a link showing he DOES support equal rights for civil unions.
Cons and vichy libs. You just cant make this shit up.
Monique, answer the goddam question.
HOW are rick warren and Thomas Robb different?
KFG, I also watched your video. What I heard is that Warren supports civil unions, and believes rights should be the same for everyone.
KFG, I answered it up above.
I know, I know farmgrrl.
It’s not much. But it is ALSO not insignificant.
Ok. I give up. You are too stupid to reply to. If you cant read, or hear, you should admit it.
Oh wait, you already did….
And NO I am not telling you to be satisfied with a little progress. I’m just reminding you how far things along have come in a short time against long odds. Fight on, I’ll be right with ya.
Yeah, it is insignificant. Talk is cheap. Actions? Well, he’s done it twice, once with mcclurkin and now with warren.
How many times does it take before you see a pattern to his actions, regardless of his words?
And for “monique” and grmie… from the interview…
“The issue to me, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to redefinition of a 5,000 year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister being together and calling that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
BELIEFNET: Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?
Oh , I do.”
So, um, that is NOT comparing gay marriage to incest and being a pedophile?
heh. HEHEH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Dumbass.
KFG show me where he compares gay unions to incest and pediophilia. What you just posted was what. He said civil rights didn’t guarantee the right to marry to gays. That is his belief and the belief of a majority of the people of California. You are trying to make an issue where there isn’t one. Rick Warren is an evangelical Christian. He has beliefs that are consistent with that belief.
I’m sorry that you are bent out of shape but I just can’t see your outrage over this choice.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/rick-warrens-controversial-com.html
When asked if he compares those with gay marriage, warren says “oh, I do”.
Is there some part of that you are too stupid to understand?
Nevermind…
“And the reason I supported Proposition 8, is really a free speech issue. Because first the court overrode the will of the people, but second there were all kinds of threats that if that did not pass then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn’t think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech. We should have freedom of speech, ok? And you should be able to have freedom of speech to make your position and I should be able to have freedom of speech to make my position, and can’t we do this in a civil way.”
Fermie I think you have hurt your own movement with your ‘in your face’ way of talking to people. You are caustic and misrepresent what is said by others including Warren.
That is your right but it isn’t your right to demean those who don’t fall into that trap and believe it as your present it.
KFG, What I heard was that he supports “full equal rights for everybody in America”, including all the benefits.
“Fermie I think you have hurt your own movement with your ‘in your face’ way of talking to people.”
Yeah, well, I see how well going along to get along and being nice has worked…
“monique”
“[Clarification from Pastor Warren 12/15: I now see you asked about civil UNIONS -and I responded by talking about civil RIGHTS. Sorry. They are two different issues.”
You really are too dumb to live…
“Reaching out”???
Is that what you call it?
I’ll call it “more of the same”, sooner or later you’ll pull your head out of your collective arses and face shit (or maybe you won’t).
Rhonda, you’re brain dead and you’re nothing but a milqu-toast propagandist.
And all of you who thought he (Obama) was change…sorry CHANGE®, are you smelling that fresh-baked humble pie?
It kinda freaks me out that HE was the chosen one to oversee the “Collapse of ‘09″. I can hardly wait.
“A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing”
Michelle Goldberg, Guardian.co.uk
“If nothing else, Rick Warren is a miracle worker in the realm of public relations. He is a man who compares legal abortion to the Holocaust and gay marriage to incest and paedophilia. He believes that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and other non-Christians are going to spend eternity burning in hell. He doesn’t believe in evolution. He recently dismissed the social gospel – the late 19th- and early 20th-century Protestant movement that led a religious crusade against poverty and inequality – as “Marxism in Christian clothing”. Yet thanks to his amiable attitude and jocular tone, he has managed to create a popular image for himself as a moderate, even progressive force in American life, a reasonable, compassionate alternative to the punitive, sex-obsessed inquisitors of the religious right. And Barack Obama, who should know better, has helped him do it.”
the rest here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008...
Flunkeyfuckk,
“The term “Machiavellian” generally gets a bad rap”.
Is there a good rap for the term?, you freak.
Did you not read the book?
The ends justifies the means?
Outright lying and deceit is just “politics as usual” for a turd like you huh?
NO WONDER THIS COUNTRY IS SINKING!
We’ve filled this place with useless, defeatest worms…my mistake, “thinker’s”, like you. And as Daffy Duck says, “you’re despicable”.
Good will defeat your kind, know it.
Somebody needs a rabies shot.
“Pleefer” goes straight to the name-calling with –
“Flunkeyfuckk”
Why bother with responding to the rest of your post?
Grown-ups are talking about issue here. You’re not fitting in.
KFG,
Here is what I think Warren is saying: His definition of marriage is one man and one woman. Anything else does not fit that definition.
By the way, disagreement does not equal hate. Surely you sometimes disagree with your friends. There is no need to resort to hatred and name calling.
If you cant see that he is comparing gay marriage to incest and being a pedophile, you are willfully ignorant.
That isnt hate. That’s the truth!
Is there some part of “oh, I do” that you dont understand?
“He is a man who compares legal abortion to the Holocaust and gay marriage to incest and paedophilia. He believes that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and other non-Christians are going to spend eternity burning in hell. He doesn’t believe in evolution. He recently dismissed the social gospel – the late 19th- and early 20th-century Protestant movement that led a religious crusade against poverty and inequality – as “Marxism in Christian clothing””
Nice guy. Harmless. Yeah. You betchya
Small groups are not organizations within the church, Warren says, but they are the church itself. Members of these groups are held more accountable to attend church and give time and money to charities. Warren’s congregation is financially committed as a community as seen in their giving $7 million in a single Sunday offering with $53 million in commitments—all in addition to their regular tithes. Warren is also making a personal commitment to generous giving. Following King Solomon’s example in Psalm 72 to use his power and influence to aid those who have no influence and are in need, Warren and his wife “reverse-tithe” the tens of millions of dollars he has earned from the book sales of his book, The Purpose-Driven Life: What on Earth Am I Here For?. The Warrens gave 90 percent of their earnings to charities and programs dedicated to starting microfinance and preventing HIV. As an influential pastor and writer, Warren sets a good financial example by calling his church and himself to generously give. Note: No downloadable text or audio is available at this time.
http://www.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=8&page=82
Who is this man really? Some would say he is a very good man who lives what he preaches unlike some on this blog. Some would say he is generous with what he has been blessed with.
No where can I find anyone except the far left who calls him homophobic. At least no one who knows him personally.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 8:39 pm | Permalink
“He is a man who compares legal abortion to the Holocaust and gay marriage to incest and paedophilia. He believes that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and other non-Christians are going to spend eternity burning in hell. He doesn’t believe in evolution. He recently dismissed the social gospel – the late 19th- and early 20th-century Protestant movement that led a religious crusade against poverty and inequality – as “Marxism in Christian clothing””
Nice guy. Harmless. Yeah. You betchya
—————-
Well, at least he doesn’t waffle. :D
Obama is doing exactly what I expected him to do when I voted for him. He may truly be a uniter. I think picking Warren to do the invocation is a wonderful idea.
It’s interesting to see Libs turning on the guy so quickly, but not totally unexpected. Personally, I want Obama to be a president for all Americans, not just Liberals.
As an Atheist I would prefer that their not be an invocation. But as a pragmatic Rick Warren is about as good as your going to get Prominent minster wise to do an invocation. We can all think of others who would be worse picks. Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jeremiah Wright etc
Yeah, I usually never “fit in”.
Each and every time you even address me on here, you make “funny” remarks on my “Crystal ball reading” forecasting (I get my information from real documents and real thinker’s). It seems that the only people in this world that don’t “get it” with what is going on around us are most of the people who frequent this blog. There is always an excuse that “the other side” caused it all and you’re one of the worst.
So as the 6 year old who can beat up and outwit the freshman said, “you started it”.
But as my mouth usually gets ahead of me, I’m sorry that I cussed ya.
“Peace, bro” (complete with flowers in the barrell).
Problem is, when someone says they support equal rights for everyone, including gays, they really mean “gays have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex so they have the same rights as everyone else!” Which is of course nonsense and just as applicable to interracial marriages.
I don’t think Rick Warren supports civil unions or equal benefits for gay couples.
However, Obama didn’t put him in his Cabinet, he asked the guy to lead a prayer.
I am going to wait until Obama actually steps into office and see what his actions regarding equal benefits for gays before making a judgment.
KFG, Are you saying you don’t hate Warren? Actually, I was referring to your hatred of me.
Problem is, Obama ran on a platform of elevating discourse, eliminating pointless partisan bickering, working together, kumbaya, etc.
It’s what brought a lot of moderates to his side.
It’s not his fault that the farther left interpreted it as a wink and a nod, and that as soon as he stepped into office he would completely dump the middle to the right, or pick up a battle axe and start swinging.
Rick Warren is an attempt to find SOME common ground, since he shares some of the Democrat’s views on the environment and poverty.
I don’t think he’s going to actually have any influence in the gay rights movement.
#
Wahine_Tara
Posted December 18, 2008 at 8:54 pm | Permalink
I am going to wait until Obama actually steps into office and see what his actions regarding equal benefits for gays before making a judgment.
_________________________________________________
Well that’s an original idea.
To some of us, gay and lesbian issues are not all that important in the over-all picture. I’m a lot more interested in what Obama is going to do about the current financial crisis.
I really doubt if Obama is going to do anything that’s overtly anti-gay.
#
Monique_J
Posted December 18, 2008 at 8:55 pm | Permalink
KFG, Are you saying you don’t hate Warren? Actually, I was referring to your hatred of me.
__________________________________________________
Monique, KFG hates Christians. Blazing, blinding hatred.
But she wants us to support her cause.
Tara, and Rick Warren will no doubt catch a lot of shit from the far right for leading a prayer for a man that many of them is a Communist/Muslim/foreigner/whatever else they believe him to be
XXX,
I don’t think KFG hates Christians. I’ll bet she probably hates people who use their Christianity as a way to justify hate and bigotry.
I think I agree with her.
XXX,
I was just starting to figure that out.
Well, maybe I don’t hate. Just dislike a lot!
XXX-I can see this not being a central issue to most people. But I think it is to the generation that grew up with a popular culture that is not hostile to gays. Anyone under the age of 25 has known one, or likely several, gay people and realize they are looking for the same things we are. All while learning about the civil rights movement in the 60’s in schools, and reading about Loving v. Virginia online because on the internet you can get information in 2 seconds.
For the younger generation, I think it IS a huge issue.
I asked myself if there was a candidate who supported wiping out all student loans for people 25 or younger, who had the same views as me on science funding, foreign policy, the environment, poverty…but who also supported a federal amendment to ban gay marriage, would i vote for him even though i have lots to gain? No, and I doubt anyone I’ve grown up with would.
It’s only a matter of time. Things like a Rick warren invocation are inconsequential. I see that, I wish more people would.
Tara I don’t feel that from you but from KFG it enters every thread with her like a second skin. I’m sorry that she is so miserable in her life but she needs to know that others can’t steal your joy unless you let them.
okobserver
Posted December 18, 2008 at 9:19 pm | Permalink
Tara I don’t feel that from you but from KFG it enters every thread with her like a second skin.
__________________________________________________
Amen!
Look you can PRETEND the right can be “worked with” all you like.
It’s EASY when you aint hurting.
Cons are the enemy. This is a war. To hell with diplomacy. Elections are SUPPOSED to matter.
Just what did bush or Reagan do for anyone but their own base?
I actually feel sorry for KFG. She seems very unhappy. But if she is waiting on utopia to happen on this earth, she will always be miserable.
Well gee, if people made laws against me just because of my way of life and who I am?
I thing I’d be a little torqued too.
For the record, I agree with Tara on pretty much the whole works. I see actions as more important than symbolism (though it’s easy to confuse the two).
But it’s also a central issue to this straight native Kansan–and I’m 47.
“Well gee, if people made laws against me just because of my way of life and who I am?
I thing I’d be a little torqued too.”
quoted for truth. Monique, what if a far left politician who thought that Christianity was a cancer was voted into office? What if this politician attempted to write laws and pass constitutional amendments that basically said Christians are second class citizens because they choose to live in a lifestyle that is contrary to principles of secular humanism, growth for society and scientific inquiry?
What if they justify this by saying they’re all for equal rights for EVERYONE, because Christians can choose not to be Christians and Christianity is not something you’re born with like skin color.
You’d be pissed too, since this country is YOUR country, too, and not just theirs.
Oh you are correct. I do hate bigoted christians. Like you XXX. I dont expect you to support equal rights. It would make the baby jesus cry, no doubt. You’ve said before you dont support gay marriage.
I hope to see the day religion will be ground under the boot heel of the state.
Monique is so stupid I wont even dignify her with a response. Utopia? No. Equal rights, yes.
But I know, it would make the baby jesus cry…
All evil needs to prevail is for good people to do nothing.
How much is it going to take for you all to recognize a pattern with obama?
Tara, you are asking monique to think?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. HAHAHAHAHAHHAH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
good one
I think XXX comment about “attack of the killer fairies” pretty much says where he is coming from.
Bigotry comes in lots of forms. Do they just teach that in the military?
Rage,
I’m glad you feel that way. I don’t mean to say that ONLY the younger generation wants equality for gays. I just mean that the majority of us do, very much, and because of that we are the reason it will happen.
Sadly, progressive change doesn’t happen in the absence of support from the people. It shouldn’t be that way. The majority SHOULDN’T tyrannize the minority. But historically, it takes a large change of heart from the people to make leaps and bounds in civil rights legislation.
That kind of change of heart has not happened to the degree that it’s required, not at the moment. I thought it had, but then Prop 8 passed.
You can’t reason someone out of a position that they have not reasoned themselves into in the first place.
I’m resigned to the fact that it will only take time to right this wrong. 65 year old conservatives aren’t going to change their mind about the “defense of marriage”, and will vote in humongous numbers to suppress gay rights. Until the younger generations stop thinking less about beer and Paris Hilton and more about civil rights, it’s going to stay the way it is.
i hope i’m wrong.
I don’t mean to say that ONLY the younger generation wants equality for gays.
I know you didn’t. I’m aware of the demographics. I grew up with some of those people, in one the most bigoted places imaginable.
i hope i’m wrong.
Actually, I see signs of hope.
I’m seeing people like conservative law professor Doug Kmeic and others endorsing the idea of getting government the hell out of the marriage business. They can see the writing on the wall (to use a biblical metaphor, heh).
The trick, I think, is to convince those who aren’t particularly interested in gay-bashing for its own sake to realize that allowing these couples who already exist to have legal recognition, will not result in gangs of gay couples waiting outside their door to eat their children, and use the bones to burn a flag.
A tall order, perhaps, but who could imagine that a mixed-race guy (once considered an “obamination”) could become president?
Gee, even the WaPo is questioning St. Obama. I guess XXX would like to tell them to sit quietly in the back of the bus while the christians drive?
All christians are not bigots. But ALL the bigots I’ve met have been christians. And you wonder why I loath them?
WaPo: Obama’s Inaugural Mistake
It is difficult to comprehend how our president-elect, who has been so spot on in nearly every political move and gesture, could fail to grasp the symbolism of inviting an anti-gay theologian to deliver his inaugural invocation. And the Obama campaign’s response to the anger about this decision? Hey, we’re also bringing a gay marching band. You know how the gays love a parade.
Yes, the Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of the humongous, evangelical Saddleback Church in Orange County, Calif., has a sound message on poverty. And certainly, in the world of politics, there is a view that Barack Obama owes Warren for bringing him before fellow evangelicals, despite fierce opposition during the heat of the presidential campaign.
But here’s the other thing about Warren, the author of the bestselling book “The Purpose Driven Life”: He was a general in the campaign to pass California’s Proposition 8, which dissolved the legal marriage rights of loving, committed same-sex couples.
For that reason, inviting Warren to set the tone at the dawn of this new presidency sends a chilling message to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans. It makes us uncertain about this exciting, young president-elect who has said repeatedly that we are part of his America, too.
We understand that the Rev. Joseph E. Lowery, a civil rights icon and a dear friend of LGBT Americans, will close the inauguration ceremony. But would any inaugural committee say to Jewish Americans, “We’re opening with an anti-Semite but closing the program with a rabbi, so don’t worry”?
It is likely that one of two scenarios played out during behind-the-scenes inaugural planning, both of them equally troubling. The first possibility is that it was suggested that Warren is the correct voice to lead the inauguration because his selection would send a message of inclusion to evangelicals. And when someone at the table said, “Gay America will be offended by that choice,” the quick answer was, “That’s fine, we’ll deal with it. We invited the gay marching band.”
more:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
If this is true Warren and the Right aren’t going to be happy for long.
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/poweringup/archive/2008/12/18/gay-man-for-navy-secretary.aspx
X?
My friend?
I refer you to the comment at 4:03 by a Christian. Now you me that person doesn’t recruit hatred for Christians.
Pretending is fun. But let’s deal with reality.
The nation is divided. That is NOT going to change. Therefore, diplomacy to try and make it change is a useless gesture.
Take me and almost any con you can name here and put us in a room to hash out an issue. The likelihood is only one of us is going to walk out of the room and even if we both do, the only thing we will agree on is that we each hate the other.
Now there are two ways to address that from my side. ONE is to continue to pander and hope against hope for reason from unreasonable, evil people. The other is to USE the opportunity that we have to crush them into irrelevance for good.
Nice try Phantom, but he isnt being backed by obama.
“Bill White, president of the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York, is being backed by congressional and former military leaders to be the next secretary of the Navy.”
He could have appointed the lesbian labor wanted as sec. of labor. But he didnt, now did he?
I think Solis will be ok. But he had a chance to appoint a gay woman who was WELL qualified and backed by labor, and he didnt.
And HE isnt backing this guy for sec. of navy.
WTF is it gonna take for you all to acknowledge the pattern?
Rage,
I hope you are right. You probably are. The extreme view tends to be the loudest, and there are probably millions of people in the middle who can see that gay rights won’t cripple the nation, and that it’s consistent with our country’s value of equal rights for all. We underestimate the silent middle, the ones who voted a black man with a funny name into office.
I’m trying to be reassured, but the loud loud extreme right is drowning out my thinking :D
I mean, I was much more optimistic about this issue before Prop 8. I’m trying to get that optimism back. Thanks for the life raft!
Merry Christmas, everyone! I’ve got Bing Crosby on my iPod and it’s making me feel better already.
All christians are not bigots. But ALL the bigots I’ve met have been christians. And you wonder why I loath them?
———–
Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
Chuckle… Sounds an awful lot like the author of the above quote. As a matter of fact, fits to a T.
Ok, well actually it sounds like about everyone who posts here.
Yeah outlander. We know how you love bigotry. I hope to see you and your church ground under the boot heel of the state someday. I’ll laugh my ass off.
Tara, looks like some folks agree with you about PropHate. The comments on this thread are great.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221×100957
Obama reached out outlander.
Where is the reach back?
I invite you to be the first.
The post at 4:03 is gratuitously cruel. The poster in question a particularly poor representative for your faith.
Why not take the opportunity to reach back by denouncing his post and admonishing him?
Outlander is also the kinda guy who says that blacks who voted for obama are racist.
Big eye roll.
Your day is coming. What goes around comes around. Unfortunately, you and I will both be dead by then. Too bad you wont get to suffer the consequenses. You’ll be stone cold in the ground and wont even KNOW there is no life after death. You’ll just be dead.
But take heart. If I’m alive? I’ll dance on your grave.
“Yeah outlander. We know how you love bigotry.”
———-
Well my dear, from the above definition, you are bigotry personified, and I really don’t love you. Although in a spiritual sense I am supposed to. So, I’ll keep trying. You know, you could try to be more lovable.
And sincerely kfg, hate is a destroyer. It will eat away at you from the inside.
Fuck you outlander. Keep you “love” away from me and your prayers too. I wont even pretend to give a rat’s ass if you live or die. Like I said, the day cant come soon enough when you and your church are ground finely under the boot heel of the state.
And I’m not alone. It’s an official shit storm inside the democratic party. Maybe it will blow over eventually, but I think obama and his merry band of bigots are on notice. A lot of buyers remorse today.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221×101186
Posted just for you outlander, because I know you wont read it. Thank the FSM for that.
“Ok, well actually it sounds like about everyone who posts here.”
Except you of course. Because you are sooooooo superior.
Obama reached out outlander.
Where is the reach back?
—————-
You haven’t been reading my posts about giving Obama a chance have you JR?
Oh, and just in case you want to know how I REALLY feel? I wouldnt piss in your mouth if your guts were on fire.
Okay, I have been reading all day, but not posting. I’ve read responses on Huffington Post and elsewhere.
I’m offended if my friends, like KFG, are marginalized by President-elect Obama. I have sent him money and expected him to make our lives better. If he fails to do that, then I will act to make his tenure very short.
I will send my views to those resources available to me. And stop my financial support… That is all I can do, and it makes me sad that this is necessary.
OMG, a CON wants to give obama a chance?
heh. Heheh. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA.
Good one.
About as good as germie saying in the primaries that if obama got the nomination, she’d vote for him.
Somebody needs to remind obama that these fundy bastards are the ones who said he was a closet muslim and not a u.s. citizen. He won WITHOUT them.
And he STILL wants to pander to them. Like they would EVER vote for him.
What a maroon.
…as the worm turns…
Thank you Steven, for being an example of what christians are supposed to be. Hugs.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 10:40 pm | Permalink
“Ok, well actually it sounds like about everyone who posts here.”
Except you of course. Because you are sooooooo superior.
———-
Nope. Sounds a bit like me too dear. But more like you. Weird, eh?
I should also thank Tara and Chas and Captain and a few others I’m sorry I’m probably forgetting. They are christians who walk their talk.
When ya need a hug kfg, come get one. 1/8th ton of soft compassion. :)
And if you think I enjoy telling the Hillary Haters “I told you so”, I dont.
It’s my life these bastards are minimizing. It’s just a game for some of you. But for us, it is indeed a life or death matter.
Do we have to wait for disaster before we hold obama accountable?
Like I said, obama and his merry band of supporters have a lot in common with bushco.
The complete inability to see and admit when they have made a mistake.
“You haven’t been reading my posts about giving Obama a chance have you JR?”
Obama panders to you and you give him a chance does NOT equal reaching back outlander.
That’s just you taking half a loaf and hoping for more.
(the school of Ronald Reagan)
I want to see one con, any con, make an honest reach back. Admonish one of your own. Show ME where YOU would compromise.
I say it isn’t in you.
Compromise about what JR?
“Thank you Steven, for being an example of what christians are supposed to be. Hugs.”
Thanks, KFG. I sympathize with Christians, I am not one, however. I am not an atheist, because they require as much faith as Christians. I am an agnostic - I don’t know - which is the truth…
Heheheh.
Yep. Shit storm.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221×101222
You see JR, I realize that despite the wacko reaction, Obama picking Warrene didn’t amount to anything. It is just a PR move. The proof will be in the pudding. That is eaten later.
“I am not one, however.”
Oh. Sorry. Dont know where I got that. Probably because you are a loving person. You know, what chrisitans are SUPPOSED to be.
Heck, now that I know that? It makes me like you even more :)
Of course if I were eating pudding in kfg’s old cafe, I’d better have you taste it before I eat.
ksfarmgrrl
no disrespect intended but you appear to me to be a one issue voter. Nothing else matters, no other opinions or priorities.
We don’t throw out the baby with the bath because your one issue is not being addressed exactly as you see it.
President elect Obama is doing the best he can with what he has available to bring this nation together. He must look at the demographics and numbers and do his best to bring as many of us together as he can - to move this nation forward.
Give him a chance, and do not condemn him for his choice of preacher - and more than you would be condemned for your choice or partner in life.
The republicans damned Obama for Rev Wright. Now you are damning him before he even takes office, for his CHOICE in spiritual guidance.
Are you less exclusive than the other?
And pushing one issue is not the idea of our party.
Here’s a quote from MLK JR. appropriate to the discussion.
The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must
be the guide and the critic of the state, and never its tool. If the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an
irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority.
MLK very well said. Thanks for that Reg.
“I am an agnostic - I don’t know - which is the truth…”
But I do hate it that people, who also don’t know, give you and others like you, so much crap.
Such makes me very angry and sad…
Just remember what goes around comes around…
in a few years when we have a President swearing in on a Koran, it will be the religious rights turn to feel scorned.
or better yet, when the Inauguration is done by a Medicine Man giving a prayer to the Great Spirit…
“President elect Obama is doing the best he can with what he has available to bring this nation together.”
Yeah. Judging by the shitstorm inside and outside the party, he’s doing a brownie. You know, heck of a job uniting the country.
When you are less than equal in the eyes of the law, give me a call and repeat that lecture about being a one issue voter.
If this dumb bastard obama cant even get this right, you think he’ll be better on the “important” issues?
Ya know, the ones that are important to you. Because obviously, it’s YOU who determines what is a big issue and what is not.
nitwit
Like any of these fucking cons will ever work a phone bank, give money, or vote for obama in their sorry lifetimes.
Let THEM elect obama next time. They think he’s a goddamn muslim and you think chosing warren will win them over?
Like the poster said at DU.
“we have an antisemite giving the invocation at the beginning. But it’s ok, because we have a rabbi giving the closing prayer”.
Big eye roll.
Thanks for reminding us YOU are the arbiter of what is important to americans.
“…or better yet, when the Inauguration is done by a Medicine Man giving a prayer to the Great Spirit…”
I’ll be ready for that one.
I cant wait until the “church” meets the boot heel of the state.
Maybe your “Muslim” president who’s not really a citizen will save your sorry asses.
You have thousands of posts all over the internet as a result of this pandering, and you think obama is a uniter?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Hee hee heeee…
From another blog.
Sounds just like dipnysus. Looking for an honest man indeed.
“look, in 50 or 60 years you’ll get your stinking rights….
can’t you people just shut up for four years like you used to? theres more important things….things that affect ME.
oh yeah….i got your back, and i support your agenda. i also minimally care about your cause.
remember to vote. and donate.”
Inclusive my ass.
“Saddleback membership criteria: If you’re gay, you cannot be a church member Updated at 10:49 PM
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“Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.”
http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder...
And this is the man chosen to open the pageant celebrating our new President.
Sounds an awful lot like “whites only at this fountain”.
Get some sleep baby sis…
Perhaps Obama and his staff were not aware of the extent of the church’s anti-gay stance. Remember, only stamp collectors are really aware of stamp prices. Now that he’s fucked up, it’s too late to go back. Also remember, where was the storm of protest when he was Warren’s guest during the debate with McCaine. Given the unfair nature of that debate, I do wonder why Obama would have anything more to do with him. Perhaps they hit it off personally? Maybe they’re butt buddies? (winking smiley face indicating bad joke).
It’s only a opening prayer for goodness sake! It’s not going to amount to a fly speck in the Obama administration! Keep it in perspective! The gay rights people & abortion rights people will have ample opportunity to send this country to to hell in a handbasket as they see fit!
Its like he gave Warren a platform when he shouldn’t have. Imagine if it was Phelps or whatever else fundy freakshow.
My gosh was the chicken farmer on a rant, or what! Typical and quite funny!
What is she advocating up thread, that a church has no right to choose to follow the gospel of the Bible and it’s God inspired authors? Weird!
That a church has no right of association? Weird!
Hey farmie, ever heard of this:
1st Amendment including ‘Freedom of Association’: The individual right to come together with other individuals and collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests. The right to freedom of association has been included in a number of national constitutions and human rights instruments, including the US constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights.
You were invited to come, but if you don’t share the tenets of the Church and God’s commands you shall not enjoy membership….don’t wait too long.
This has been an all gay all the time thread brought to you courtesy of the Kansas Farm Girl as she makes her rounds on the blogs today to ensure we all know what’s right and whats’ wrong.
Ah there is that Christian love again.
Wielded as a tool by mean people to hurt and marginalize others.
That’s some faith you have going there. And you wonder why fewer and fewer people want no part of it.
Sounds an awful lot like “whites only at this fountain”.
—————————————————
Not even close Oh tolerant one.
And you wonder why the majority of Americans are so turned off by your ’cause’.
I dont wonder. They are religious bigots. No surprise there.
“What is she advocating up thread, that a church has no right to choose to follow the gospel of the Bible and it’s God inspired authors?”
Please repost where I said that.
Remind me, bigotbawks, which church is it that condones your lying? Which commandment makes lying ok?
And kia, if you want ANOTHER ass kicking today, bring it.
I’m still waiting for you to bring it on the challenge you pussied out on yesterday.
“And sincerely kfg, hate is a destroyer. It will eat away at you from the inside.”
Exactly outlander, but they say that some people have to hit the bottom of destruction before they can turn around and begin to heal.
I think kfg is well on her way.
Hey blogmonitor, I know you dont read (or think) before posting and monitoring, but…
“Advocates of gay rights (and presumably abortion rights) are upset about President-elect Barack Obama’s choice of pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation on Inauguration Day.”
Uh, that was kinda the topic of this thread.
Yet another too stupid to live poster.
Anyone see the clip on the Today show this morning of the Ann Currie interview?
He’s blessed with a eloquence of words.
So I guess that’s a no on reposting where I said that? Big surprise.
And I see you STILL decline to tell us which faith condones your lying.
Color me surprised….
Hey bigotbawks, since kia seems to be tongue tied again today, why dont YOU tell us what it feels like to have your party and politics rejected by the voters who put democratic majorities in the house, the senate, and elected a closet muslim to the presidency?
Come on, we’re dying to know how you feel there in loserville.
Gee bigotbawks, looks like I am getting under your skin.
Again.
Dance poodle dance!
Thought I told you in the other thread.
Now who’s posting on multiple threads, blogmonitor?
Whatever. If I got my ass whooped as many times as you do kia, I’d be running too.
nitwit AND a coward
“Saddleback membership criteria: If you’re gay, you cannot be a church member Updated at 10:49 PM
“Please repost where I said that.”—kfg
You said “Sounds an awful lot like “whites only at this fountain”.—kfg, Posted December 18, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Of course the Church as ever right to set criteria for membership. You can agree or not, your choice.
But your choice is not to advocate and live in opposition to the teachings of God and the Church AND claim membership also. Kind of obvious is it, except to someone so blinded by hate.
“Gee bigotbawks, looks like I am getting under your skin.
Again.” kfg
Naw, I enjoy the contest. You see I know the outcome, and kfg….you’re losing.
Yeah bawks. You are a great black knight. Caught lying and discredited and you think you are “winning” something?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHAH.
No arms, no legs, but you still think you are kicking ass.
Dance poodle dance!
And for you obama bots…
From MondoJoe.
“Why Don’t You Just Admit Gays Are the Most Expendable Group In Obama’s Coalition?
Advertisements [?]
Bad as Obama’s choice is, all he defender’s rationalizations just make it worse.
Why don’t you just grow up and admit that GLBT people are the most expendable, and Obama is willing to trade on us to gain Evangelical voters?
It was plain with Reverend Donnie, confirmed with Caldwell and continues with Warren. In our Obama lifeboat, if you can dangle someone over the side to try to use as bait, it’s always the gays first.
Just stop with the BS about reaching out, because it only applies to gays. When Obama invites a notorious racist to deliver a speech or seve an honored guest role, then we’ll be able to take that rationalization seriously.
The insult of Warren is enough, but we’ve been insulted before and can cope. But don’t add to it by rationalizing it, or by claiming as Obama did that he is a “fierce advocate” for us, which honoring a man who compares us to child molesters. It’s one thing to be insulted, but another to pretend it was some sort of kindness.”
Glad you are some comfortable with eternity.
If I were not a man in need of a Savior I’d feel sorry for you.
“You see I know the outcome, and kfg….you’re losing.”
Uh huh.
That’s why the forum is ROCKING with “go bawks go!”.
Won to his cause by bawks 0.
“as ever right” should read ‘has every right’.
“Whatever. If I got my ass whooped as many times as you do kia, I’d be running too.”—kfg
You are so funny….reminds me of the movie where the guy keeps spouting threats and he’s lost his arms and legs in the fight and is just lying on the floor helpless. Ha. Is that you kfg?
Keep it up, you crack me up.
Yeah. You’ll be just as dead as I will be some day.
And too stone cold to even have an awareness that when you are dead, you are dead.
We’re going to spend eternity the same way.
Dead.
But hey, if you need a fairy tale to make you feel better about facing your own mortality, go for it.
Whatever it takes to get you through the night.
hey bigotbawks, remind us all again.
What church condones your deliberate lies? What church is it that ignores the “thou shalt not lie” commandment?
Come on. Tell us. Our Lady of the Holy Fibs?
Hee hee hee heeeeee….
You’ve already been tagged as the black knight.
Do try to keep up.
And remind me, I forgot where in the bible jesus said it was ok to deliberately lie, as long as you are teaching JR some kind of imaginary “lesson”?
hehehe HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAH
what a maroon
It’s just GOT to be the church of BTK. Ya know, the one where he was president of the congregation?
Oh yeah. That oughta bring in the christian converts in DROVES.
I love it the way you love me kfg, like a child with misdirected affection who acts out annoyingly.
Keep it up, you are doing wonders for my self esteem.
You encourage me knowing you are increasingly frustrated, and will eventually out of necessity engage in some much need self examination.
Still no answer to the lying church question?
heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hypocrisy, thy name is…..
I feel some pain for farmgrrl. farmgrrl feels embittered that Obama has selected of Warren for the invocation even though this single decision does not in any way affect farmgrrl’s rights.
But as we all know, the crusade by the LGBT community to counterfeit marriage is not about rights at all.
farmgrrl desperately needs for her government leaders to symbolically suggest that they agree with her, so that she can feel that her beliefs are cloaked in some form of legitmacy.
In reality, farmgrrl feels guilty for her perverse lifestyle or else she would not care what her government leaders think.
Too bad farmgrrl can’t simply be content with the peace that she is right and that is all the matters. However, such peace would mean accepting the truth that she is wrong.
RFL…..AMEN!
That’s just too funny for words.
Project much?
I should just be happy riding in the back of the bus?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHHA>
And you christianists whine about being persecuted?
Why cant you just be happy in your churches without making america a theocracy?
With that logic, you must feel guilty for all the death and destruction caused by christianists all over the world. Otherwise, why would you insist your bigotry be the law of the land?
Bigotbawks and rfl, remind me….
WHICH church is it that condones your deliberate lies?
You really don’t have any clue about what you hate so much do you?
I already accepted your challenge about knowledge of the bible.
YOU pussied out, remember?
And wtf do YOU know about being gay?
Jesus, dont answer that. I dont even want to hear it.
Maybe you can answer the question smart boy.
Which church condones ignoring the “thou shalt not lie” commandment like bigotbawks and his deliberate lies?
tic toc tic toc tic toc
RFL,
Ya know, some folks, kfg in particular, think I wish her harm.
That is very far from the truth.
I do lose my patience quickly with her attitude, demeanor and language around here. And I will NOT allow her to redefine marriage into something perverted for her own peace of mind.
Also, I do not want society to have to pay for the benefits associated with true marriage that she thinks she is entitled to as a result of her homosexual/lesbian activities. That is a lifestyle choice, and a poor one. I think much of the commotion in that community is all about the money for the most part anyway.
If I can frustrate her into thinking about her lifestyle and some self-examination so much the better and can easily tolerate the insults.
Got’a run, a customer just invited me over for their Christmas get together.
Hee hee hee heeeeee….
You cant win on logic
You cant win on facts
So… by your same logic, we can only conclude what I read on another blog. You and yours oppose equality under the law…
“Because they’re religious asswipes who use their belief in primitive superstitions to justify hatred and discrimination.”
“Also, I do not want society to have to pay for the benefits associated with true marriage that she thinks she is entitled to”
The real christian truth emerges
Still not answering which church allows you to deliberately lie with impunity?
The Church of the Holy Fib?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 18, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink
Oh you are correct. I do hate bigoted christians. Like you XXX.
I hope to see the day religion will be ground under the boot heel of the state.
__________________________________________________
Now there’s an attitude for you.
I’m a bigot because I don’t support KFG’s position.
You don’t know what “bigot” means, but you sure throw the word around. And you want my faith “ground under the boot heel of state”?
KFG, you’ve got to be the most hateful poster on these boards.
I don’t hate you.
Merry Christmas. May God watch over you and keep you, and show you the way.
Dont break a sweat praying for me.
And yeah, I do “I hope to see the day religion will be ground under the boot heel of the state.”
Attack of the killer fairies indeed.
“Also, I do not want society to have to pay for the benefits associated with true marriage that she thinks she is entitled to as a result of her homosexual/lesbian activities”
Maybe I don’t think churches that host people like you should enjoy tax exempt status.
I don’t trust you and yours as worthy benefactors to society warranting that tax break.
I’d rather have that money in the hands of government that I can elect. God is a no show when the chips are down.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 19, 2008 at 11:33 am | Permalink
Attack of the killer fairies indeed.
_______________________________________________
I knew you’d enjoy that. Feel free to use it among your friends.
The Lord’s blessings upon you and yours.
Gay marriage is a historical inevitablity, the same as all the other lost causes that right-wing has forever fought–civil rights, wars of independence in India, Algeria, and Vietnam, environmentalism and feminism.
The question is how long can they deny their fellow Americans a simple right that costs them nothing.
As far as Obama goes, we need to move to direct action. This “reaching out” seems to only go in one direction–to placate the CONs and the centrists.
We who gave money and time on this election deserve some “reaching out” too, damn it.
“KFG, you’ve got to be the most hateful poster on these boards.”
It may be that your faith and defense of some indefensible fellows in it….clouds your view.
If my friend is bitter because she has been treated badly, I will not blame her but put the blame where it belongs with those who USE their faith as a weapon to hurt people who they disagree with.
Also?
I’ve never been good with bailing on my friends to reach out to the enemy.
IF the cons on this forum are a good representation of Republicans at large, and I believe this to be so, I find almost nothing redeeming in them or worthy of knowing better.
“This “reaching out” seems to only go in one direction–to placate the CONs and the centrists.
We who gave money and time on this election deserve some “reaching out” too, damn it.”
Thank you captain. That is indeed the point.
Some of us saw this coming with the pandering to the cult of mcclurkin. I’m sorry it proved to be true, and a pattern.
But I’m not disappointed in obama. This is EXACTLY what I expected of him and his.
Thank you too JR for your unwavering support of civil rights for all.
When obama reaches out to the racists like he does the homophobes, he’ll have some moral standing.
Otherwise? It’s bigotry disguised as “reachin out”.
In other words, when he invites Dr. Thomas Robb to pray at his party, then he has moral standing.
Otherwise?
meet the new boss, same as the old boss
“Gay marriage is a historical inevitablity, the same as all the other lost causes that right-wing has forever fought–civil rights, wars of independence in India, Algeria, and Vietnam, environmentalism and feminism.”
I’ve elsewhere said much the same.
The battle is a rear guard action that cannot succeed. So, a logical conclusion is that those who fight it are either disconnected from reality, deliberately cruel, or both.
“Thank you too JR for your unwavering support of civil rights for all.”
Well….
That’s heady praise for just doing what I see as the right thing. I don’t have a book to lean on. I just wing it. I cannot see how it is that cruelty and prejudice are some sort of divine assignment.
Gotta go but always there.
I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the Saints. New Orleans or otherwise.
So you are cruel and prejudice on principal?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAAHA
Nice hyena schtick.
Where am I ever prejudiced or cruel against someone who isn’t dishing it first?
Later.
BlueJay
Hmmm. About everytime a dissenting opinion is spoken or written?
You kicked off the Obama/Warren thread yesterday with this little gem.
Posted December 18, 2008 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
“Obama said that America needs to “come together,”
Obama is a naive panderer. Is he DEAF and blind to the attacks on him from the right? You CAN’T be nice with those people. They don’t speak it.
Only “coming together” I want with them is along the shaft of a spear.
“Also, I do not want society to have to pay for the benefits associated with true marriage that she thinks she is entitled to as a result of her homosexual/lesbian activities.”
Luckily, you are old, and will be irrelevant in another decade or so.
Gay marriage is inevitable. I’m almost going to feel sorry for the geezers muttering under their breath “it aint natural, it aint right”, but nobody listens to them.
Kind of like how my ex would get embarrassed and shush his grandma when she mentioned “those negroes”.
That’s going to be you, soon. How does that feel?
Nice fairy tale Tara. Never gonna happen.
Oh yes, it will, Kia.
Prop 8 results by age:
Age Yes No
18-24 (11%) 34% 66%
25-29 (9%) 40% 60%
30-39 (17%) 50% 50%
40-49 (22%) 58% 42%
50-64 (25%) 50% 50%
65 and up (16%) 59% 41%
Yes of course. My views at 41 are the EXACT same as they were at 18-24, 25-29………
People don’t become more bigoted. We’ve grown up in a culture that accepts gays. They’re not scary diseased people that can pass on the gay virus by coughing on us.
While economic viewpoints tend to become more conservative with age, hearts don’t change for the worse, barring som
If your not a homophobe by 25, you are not going to become a homophobe.
Remember, 40 years ago it was perfectly acceptable to be disgusted by black men and white women couples. Now? Not so much.
“barring some truama involving gays. A gay beating, or something, ha”
Dunno what happened there
Sweetie, my kindergarten teacher was Gay.
I grew up in the Gay Israel for crying out loud.
Not wanting my Godly Union to have the same recognition as yours and FG’s is not homophobic.
I’ve advocated numerous times taking Marriage out of the Governments hands all together. Let us all have Civil Unions.
Let Churches perform ceremonies of Marriage only with no legal validity.
Hint: I’m half of a straight, interracial marriage.
I’m also a member of a church that is probably MORE strict theologically than Catholics (except there is not any politicking in mine).
And yet I advocate gay rights. It’s not just the gays demanding equality anymore, it’s all of us right alongside with them.
And if that is your view on civil unions, then we have no beef, Mr. Kia. I don’t think any church should be forced to marry a gay couple (I don’t see the Orthodox Church performing the holy sacrament of marriage for gay couples any time soon). But all of those 1,110 legal rights and privileges must be extended.
Civil unions for all, and marriage in the church, sounds fine by me.
“Let Churches perform ceremonies of Marriage only with no legal validity.” — Mr_Kia
———-
Isn’t this currently true? No marriage ceremony that happened in any church is legal until someone goes to the courthouse to make it so. And, before that church ceremony someone went to the courthouse and paid the applicable fee for the license that will be filed afterward.
“Gay Israel”
WTF?
No wonder you focus on my “jews cooperating with nazi’s”
Must have been talking about some of your kin.
My apologies Tara on the assumption on your relationship. I always had thought you were FG’s partner.
San Francisco. The promised land. Tongue in cheek.
I can already have a marriage ceremony in a church and have it recognized by a church.
It’s the courthouse that I cant get to recognize my marriage.
I think it’s official.
Kia is both drunk and stupid.
The bigotry goes without saying.
lindainks55
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
“Let Churches perform ceremonies of Marriage only with no legal validity.” — Mr_Kia
———-
Isn’t this currently true? No marriage ceremony that happened in any church is legal until someone goes to the courthouse to make it so. And, before that church ceremony someone went to the courthouse and paid the applicable fee for the license that will be filed afterward.
————————————————–
Good point Yes.
Let the JP’s perform civil unions for anyone.
Let churches perform MARRIAGE for whom they CHOOSE.
Problem I have with the marriage argument is the homosexual community ramming their belief system down MY throat.
That is true Mr. KIA. The tone and the vile insults hurled around on blogs are unnecessary and add absolutely nothing. In fact that kind of behavior detracts from any legitimate points.
I would urge my fellow Democrats to rise above it.
Outlander you are giving a new respectability to the democrat party. I wasn’t crazy about losing you to the left but I can see a real benefit here. Now if they will only listen to you and tone it down a notch or two.
Nope, I don’t even live in Kansas anymore.
And to clarify my above statement, I am also don’t think any church should be forced to marry an interracial couple.
Because seriously folks, if a church refused to marry me to my husband, would I really WANT a ceremony there?
Wahine_Tara
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Nope, I don’t even live in Kansas anymore.
And to clarify my above statement, I am also don’t think any church should be forced to marry an interracial couple.
Because seriously folks, if a church refused to marry me to my husband, would I really WANT a ceremony there?
————————————————–
Exactly.
But that seems to be the Gay argument.
They want to force their views on my church.
Perhaps Outlander became so far right that he circled around and is now a radical liberal :O
“I always had thought you were FG’s partner.”
ROFLMGAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you wonder why I call you stupid?
You dont want equality in civil unions. You said so at 1:04
“Not wanting my Godly Union to have the same recognition as yours and FG’s…”
Tell me, is it the alcohol or the stupidity that shortens your memory?
It’s not the gay argument.
They don’t give a hoot about your church condemning them to the fiery pits of hell.
It’s about equal recognition before the state.
Do you know the difference between God and Civil?
Wahine_Tara
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink
It’s not the gay argument.
They don’t give a hoot about your church condemning them to the fiery pits of hell.
It’s about equal recognition before the state.
—————————————————-
Not what I’ve read.
Churches not performing marriages for homosexuals would lose 501-C-3 status.
“Churches not performing marriages for homosexuals would lose 501-C-3 status.”
Prove it. I call bullshit.
I’m pretty sure you have advoated that yourself.
Churches already choose which ceremonies they will perform. Some won’t marry those who have been married previously, others put ‘counseling’ requirements on couples.
“Luckily, you are old, and will be irrelevant in another decade or so.”
Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant. It really doesn’t matter what I think about homosexuality, God has condemned its practice, called it an abomination. And that is that. Another decade or so makes no difference, nor thousands of years, that truth will go on and on as long as there are generations.
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” (Leviticus 18:22). “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them” (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God’s word nor depart from it.
“A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.” (Deuteronomy 22:5)
The Apostle Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares that homosexuality “shall not inherit the kingdom of God” (I Corinthians 6:9; 10).
‘It ain’t me’, it ain’t me’, in the words of Bob Dylan, it ain’t me your lookin’ for.
Let’s try to keep in mind that we’ve already agreed that no marriage in any church is legal.
XXX
Posted December 19, 2008 at 11:32 am | Permalink
I don’t hate you.
Merry Christmas. May God watch over you and keep you, and show you the way.
________________________________________________
HA!
Killed her with kindness.
Finally KFG has admitted it is about the money. We can now have a reasoned discussion about what would happen if SS marriages were recognized as legal and binding under federal and state laws.
Warren said it when he was misquoted by KFG. We would then open the door to any other group that now wants their union recognized. How can we exclude someone who loves his sister and wants to marry her. Or the man who wants several wifes. Or the woman who wants to wed her aunt so she can be on her insurance.
What we need to look at is how to even the field without changing the definition of an institution that many have voted to leave alone. That is the real discussion here and it isn’t going to happen overnight certainly not before the inauguration.
Mr. Kia, right now churches can refuse to marry ANYONE if they choose.
You can’t get married in my church unless one of the people are Orthodox. You can’t get married in my church if the other partner is not a Christian of some denomination (excluding Jehovah’s Witnesses).
You can’t get married in a Catholic church unless you have the premarital counseling.
A pastor can refuse to marry you if he feels you are making a bad decision.
And last time I checked, these churches are still tax-exempt.
Kia, How about this; marriage under law is the province of the state. A minister or judge or a ship’s captain or your mother’s hairdresser can bless the union all they want, but once the marriage license is filed, all legal benefits of marriage accrue. Marriage is marriage! No church need be involved, and equal treatment under the law doesn’t disrupt any church’s right to hate whomever they please.
XXX your just on ignore. You arent even worth the energy to respond to.
Heheh. The bible says it so it must be true. Because, ya know the bible says so.
Tautology at it’s finest.
Many dead horses have been beaten, drug across the road, buried and dug up again on this thread.
Boy Reg that is true.
OK,
The incest and polygymy crowd can start their own damn movement.
Personally, I don’t see a problem with extending the benefits to any two people.
With the knowledge that if you have those benefits with, say, your aunt, you cannot have them with your boyfriend without first dissolving the union with your aunt and giving up the benefits.
Everyone has their own opinions on this, but it’s sidestepping the issue.
Just because you had a new word on your word of the day calendar FG doesn’t mean you know how to use it in a sentence. LOL
Tau*tol”o*gy (?), n. [L. tautologia, Gr. &?;: cf. F. tautologie.] (Rhet.) A repetition of the same meaning in different words; needless repetition of an idea in different words or phrases; a representation of anything as the cause, condition, or consequence of itself, as in the following lines:
Tau*tol”o*gy = the study of the tightness of belts and suspenders after a large meal.
That’s pretty funny.
Tara have you ever seen law written in such vague terms. It won’t happen here either. If the purpose is to extend benefits then change the way these benies are allocated.
If you pay for the family portion of health insurance then relax the restriction on who you can carry as a dependent. Have standard government forms which will allow you to designate whom ever you want as your next of kin for medical decisions, etc…
BTW my husband and I do have legal papers that leave nothing to be determined by our heirs or successors as to what our wants and desires are.
Capn it didn’t cost thousands just a few hundreds. Only someone who has never been through settling an estate would fail to do this.
Civil unions appear to be something many could get behind now. Wouldn’t this be better than insisting on changing the definition of marriage when the majority has said ‘no’.
“Capn it didn’t cost thousands just a few hundreds. Only someone who has never been through settling an estate would fail to do this.”
Yeah, grmie said she could marry her mother with a “five dollar piece of paper”.
Remember?
Full of shit, as usual.
KFG I give zero credability to anything you spew. You are so jaded by your hatred that logic has been lost. I never said I could marry my mom with a five dollar piece of paper. I said you could designate your medical spokesperson with a stroke of a pen on a simple document that you carry on your person. The person you designate should also carry a copy.
This is legal, simple and necessary whether you are gay, straight, or just too stupid to know anything as you are starting to sound.
Yeah grmie, you did say you could have all the rights of marriage for a five dollar piece of paper.
But even if I did a bone dig, you still would deny it.
Lie, dodge, deny, lie, dodge, deny.
Wash, rinse, repeat
A tautology is a logical statement in which the conclusion is equivalent to the premise. More colloquially, it is formula in propositional calculus which is always true (Simpson 1992, p. 2015; D’Angelo and West 2000, p. 33; Bronshtein 2004, p. 288).
The bible is true because the bible says it is true.
KFG wallow in your self pity. You can’t change public opinion with your hate filled attacks. Dig all you want. You are truly a idiot when it comes to this subject. Go back and read what you have posted the last few days.
I Waaaannnnttt it myyyyyy wwwwaaayyyy nnnooowwww!
Ain’t going to happen.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Did you see the story a couple days ago about the
goodheterosexual couple that named their kid “Adolf Hitler Campbell.”Of course, “okobserver” is probably fine with that.
It’s beginning to appear “okobserver” doesn’t have a problem with same-gender marriage; she simply doesn’t want you to be happy.
Or equal.
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:28 pm | Permalink
Not what I’ve read.
Churches not performing marriages for homosexuals would lose 501-C-3 status.”
Apparently misinformation was at the heart of the issue all along. There is no organized push that would require churches to perform homosexual marriages or lose their tax status. (I cannot guarantee there are not fringe groups that have said they would be in favor of that, but no mainstream groups have)
Besides, the State could no more force a church to marry people (homosexual or not) than it could force a church to share its baptismal font with churches of other denominations. (e.g. forcing the Methodist church to let Catholics perform baptisms in the fountain in the Methodist church.)
Yes but when a Church marriage becomes a “civil right” the disallowing of such becomes a “Hate Crime”
We have a right to freedom of religion, as expressed in the first amendment. It is unlawful to discriminate based on religion.
AND YET…if you are a Hindu or Muslim or Pagan, you cannot get married in an Orthodox church.
Believe me, there is no push to force churches to perform marriages against their will. You have not given any sources for your claim.
It’s not easy either for the Druid Reformed.
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 3:18 pm | Permalink
Yes but when a Church marriage becomes a “civil right” the disallowing of such becomes a “Hate Crime””
No one is saying a “Church marriage” is or should become a civil right.
Tara, As an inter-racial couple you could have sued the Church you were married in (assuming you were married in a church)if it had elected not to perform it as a violation of Civil Rights could you have not?
“gster” –
Oh! A “reformed” Druid, huh?
Oak trees weren’t good enough for ya, huh? Had to go out and worship all trees, huh?
Die, heretic!
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Tara, As an inter-racial couple you could have sued the Church you were married in (assuming you were married in a church)if it had elected not to perform it as a violation of Civil Rights could you have not?”
No.
Churches are under no legal obligtion to perform their ministries on an equal opportunity basis
(unless, potentially, they receive federal funds for providing those ministries)
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Tara, As an inter-racial couple you could have sued the Church you were married in (assuming you were married in a church)if it had elected not to perform it as a violation of Civil Rights could you have not?”
No.
Churches are under no legal obligtion to perform their ministries on an equal opportunity basis
(unless, potentially, they receive federal funds for providing those ministries)
Kia,
No, I could not.
The church decides whether to marry you or not.
They can decide not to for a number of reasons.
Or, in the words of Emo Phillips –
He said, “I do believe in God.”
I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”
He said, “A Christian.”
I said, “Me too. Protestant or Catholic?”
He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me too! What franchise?”
He says, “Baptist.”
I said, “Me too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”
He says, “Northern Baptist.”
I said, “Me too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He says, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”
I say, “Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?”
He says, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist.”
I say, “Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?”
He says, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region.”
I say, “Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”
He says, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”
I said, “Die, heretic!”
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Tara, As an inter-racial couple you could have sued the Church you were married in (assuming you were married in a church)if it had elected not to perform it as a violation of Civil Rights could you have not?”
Practice of religion is a civil right. However, I cannot sue the Jewish Temple to compel them to perform a Catholic wedding ceremony for me.
Mr. Kia, if that had happened I would have appealed to the archbishop. Not the government.
Wahine_Tara
Posted December 19, 2008 at 3:59 pm | Permalink
Kia,
No, I could not.
The church decides whether to marry you or not.
They can decide not to for a number of reasons.
—————————————————-
Race is not one of them. (see Supreme Court decision Loving v. Virginia)
They could lie of course.
But the point is inter-racial marriage is a civil right.
The Gay Marriage battle is one of Civil Rights.
“Mr_Kia” –
And, as much as you want to spin this into some kind of “the gubmint gonna force Baptists to marry fags” straw man, what we’re talking about is CIVIL law.
A church marriage means nothing in the marriage process. If you don’t get a government-issued marriage license, you’ve got a lot of hoops to jump through even to prove a heterosexual common law union. Even if there was a church and bridesmaids in ugly dresses and guys in rented suits.
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 4:06 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
Race is not one of them. (see Supreme Court decision Loving v. Virginia)
They could lie of course.
But the point is inter-racial marriage is a civil right.
The Gay Marriage battle is one of Civil Rights.”
Mr_Kia you are misreading Loving v Virginia. It essentially held that State laws cannot prevent a marriage from being recognized as official because of race.
Loving in no way compels any particular church to perform a service for an interracial couple.
The subtle difference can be seen if you look at that case in reverse. There were churches in Virginia performing wedding services for interracial couples before the court decision, and those services were not prohibited. The unions could not be officially registered with the state, but the state could not prevent the churches from performing weddings.
Using the Catholic Church as an example.
Groom A raised in the parish, attended the school, baptized there, is a member. His sexuality is unknown.
Groom B raised in the same parish, attended the same school, baptized there, is a member. His sexuality is unknown.
They are members in good standing and Catholic.
They want to get married and meet all the churches criteria for.
Oops, You are Gay? No sorry.
Civil Rights violation.
“Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Permalink
They are members in good standing and Catholic.
They want to get married and meet all the churches criteria for.
Oops, You are Gay? No sorry.
Civil Rights violation.”
Wrong. Untrue. No possible for the Courts to compel the Church to marry Groom A and Groom B in your example.
Civil Rights protections do not extend to church ministries that do not receive public funding.
Seriously man, I don’t know what your church has told you, but it is wrong.
They want to get married and meet all the churches criteria for.
It’s not a “checklist” to get married in the church–if you check off all the criteria the church MUST marry you.
The priest can still refuse to perform the marriage if he thinks it’s damaging to the couple’s spiritual welfare.
There is discretion in churches, and they can exercise it for whatever reason.
Wrong, Mr_Kia. No law has been broken if a church refuses to marry any couple no matter the makeup of that couple. Whether they are both men, both women, of two races — it doesn’t matter! Any church may refuse to marry any couple.
Further, when any couple is married at any church it isn’t legal unless the couple have secured the appropriate license at the courthouse and after the church ceremony same license is properly filed back at that courthouse.
No church wedding alone makes anyone legally married! The church stuff is for show, for the church blessing, the attendees belssings, the memories, the pictures, etc. IT ISN’T LEGAL!
“Mr_Kia” –
You’re wrong.
Again.
As usual.
blah blah blah
fap fap fap
“Seriously man, I don’t know what your church has told you, but it is wrong.”
Heheheh.
What a surprise….
Monkeyhawk, that “die, heretic” bit cracks me up everytime.
And who knew gster was reformed? I like you just the way you are, g!
Thank you libs for being the smart and kind people you are.
…and for kia, amway, outie, XXX and other assorted bigots….
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221×101790
Even if they wont read it, it’s still good.
#
Mr_Kia
Posted December 19, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Permalink
Using the Catholic Church as an example.
Groom A raised in the parish, attended the school, baptized there, is a member. His sexuality is unknown.
Groom B raised in the same parish, attended the same school, baptized there, is a member. His sexuality is unknown.
They are members in good standing and Catholic.
They want to get married and meet all the churches criteria for.
Oops, You are Gay? No sorry.
Civil Rights violation.
=======================
It could be worse than that.
The Groom could be Catholic.
The Bride could be Methodist.
The priest can refuse to marry them because they are ‘unevenly yoked’ in religious indoctrination.
gster is reformed?
I hope that didn’t change you too much, gster. I really thought you had it all together. But, hey, if you needed reformation, I’m gonna trust you knew what was best!
Rick Warren: ‘I am Honored’ to Pray at Inauguration
— Jennifer Mesko
Just 2 percent to 3 percent of Americans are gay- or lesbian-identified, but they sure make a lot of noise.
When President-elect Barack Obama invited the Rev. Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration, outrage from the homosexual-activist community followed — in the form of countless blog posts, commentaries and news articles.
Warren, who is the pastor of Saddleback Church in California, said he commends Obama “for his courage to willingly take enormous heat from his base by inviting someone like me, with whom he doesn’t agree on every issue, to offer the invocation.”
“The Bible admonishes us to pray for our leaders,” Warren said. “I am honored by this opportunity to pray God’s blessing on the office of the president and its current and future inhabitant, asking the Lord to provide wisdom to America’s leaders during this critical time in our nation’s history.”
Reading what Warren had to say enforces my opinion he is a really good choice to give the invocations at Obama’s inauguration, A REALLY GOOD CHOICE.
what a surprise
bigots of a feather and all…
“Even if they wont read it, it’s still good.”-kfg
You’re half right for once, I looked at it and decided it had nothing of value to take my time reading.
heheh
and I’m so sure bigotbawks will EVER vote for obama
Gee, I dont remember inviting you to read it.
Funny, you hang on my every word…
Ya know Baby Sis, for someone who doesn’t want to be hated or excluded, you are sure pushing a lot of hate around. :(
Well, darn if you aren’t right again!
I’m NOT one of what you call “assorted bigots…” you were inviting to read it.
So sorry, but don’t worry, I really never read a word once I saw what it was. Whatever it was it’s safe with you.
“Regular,” you’re wrong.
She’s pushing a lot of haters around.
(And they hate that!)
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted December 19, 2008 at 5:06 pm | Permalink
“Regular,” you’re wrong.
She’s pushing a lot of haters around.
(And they hate that!)
====================
MonkeyHock is wrong as usual.
People in general don’t hate gays or their desire to marriage. What they have against ‘gay marriage’ is an unclear authority from moral leadership.
In my case, I have no objection to lawful marriage of gay couples because the Bible isn’t really clear on the subject despite the various interpretations of religious leaders.
However, it is wrong to chastise either side for their position because of belief and/or tradition.
Spewing venom doesn’t help at all.
The intrepid mountaineer, “Regular,” starts with name-calling –
“MonkeyHock is wrong as usual.”
And then, wearing his comfortable walking shoes resorts to gibberish –
“People in general don’t hate gays or their desire to marriage. What they have against ‘gay marriage’ is an unclear authority from moral leadership.”
What the hell does that second sentence mean?!
I mean, really.
Diagram the sentence or define the terms or try to recast that piece of word salad into something which might reflect a cogent thought.
“In my case, I have no objection to lawful marriage of gay couples because the Bible isn’t really clear on the subject despite the various interpretations of religious leaders.”
Of course, “…despite the Bible isn’t really clear…” makes you a heretic! Are you demeaning God and His Word?! Your God “…isn’t really clear on the subject?!” You’re gonna be treading molten brimstone for that one!
I must assume you keep strict Kosher, since your God guy was about as clear as He could be about ham (abomination), cheeseburgers (abomination) and popcorn shrimp (abomination).
I trust you’re not wearing polyester/cotton blend clothes (abomination) and spend several afternoons a week hurling stones to kill divorcees (adulterers; abomination).
“However, it is wrong to chastise either side for their position because of belief and/or tradition.”
Show me where in the Constitution of the United States of America where secular policy is beholden to “belief and/or tradition.”
Now show me where in the Constitution of the United States of America where secular policy is dictated by equal protection under the law.
“Spewing venom doesn’t help at all.
Your name-calling is pretty impotent “venom,” but we know whence it comes.
Kia, the position you’ve advocated recently is that exact same position of the human equality movement. It’s all about civil equality under the law.
I don’t know where you’ve heard this other nonsense, but, assuming someone, somewhere, filed such a suit, the unconstitutionality of it–telling private churches who they can or cannot marry–is a no-brainer.
There is no ideological divide on this one. You’d have a hard time finding a judge in this country, of any stripe, who wouldn’t throw out such a suit, and scold the attorney for even bringing it.
O.M.G.
Obama’s comments regarding Don Imus.
“I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group.”
“He didn’t just cross the line,” Obama said. “He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women — who I hope will be athletes — that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It’s one that I’m not interested in supporting.”
Jesus WEPT. Hypocrite, party of one? Hypocrite?
He thinks the comments of a comedian on a radio show are worse than warren comparing us to pedophiles and incest? WTF? What kind of stereotypes is this asswipe warren perpetuating? There are no gay kids hearing his words?
Holy shit. What a maroon. And this guy is gonna be the leader of the free world?
Comments from another blog:
“Because a joker’s words have more impact than a preacher on the Presidential stage, you see. And because you are right. Obama accepts hatred towrard us that he does not accept toward others.
Does he not know that other kids are hearing Warren’s hate as a personal attack? And seeing Obama support that bigotry?”
What a nice fuck you to every gay kid in America.
But of course, it’s no big deal. He hasnt taken office yet and he’s invited some gay marching band.
Stunning. Simply stunning.
Dear Reg,
With all due respect, I know you have a soft spot for me, and I appreciate that. I really do.
But… I’m fifty two. Probably older than you. I’m not a baby, and I’m not your sis, not that being your sis would be a bad thing. I’m sure your sister loves you. I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, nor do I wish to appear ungrateful for your kindness toward me.
But please, dont patronize me with the “baby sis” stuff. Ok?
your friend,
farmgrrl
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 19, 2008 at 6:41 pm | Permalink
Dear Reg,
With all due respect, I know you have a soft spot for me, and I appreciate that. I really do.
But… I’m fifty two. Probably older than you. I’m not a baby, and I’m not your sis, not that being your sis would be a bad thing. I’m sure your sister loves you. I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, nor do I wish to appear ungrateful for your kindness toward me.
But please, dont patronize me with the “baby sis” stuff. Ok?
your friend,
farmgrrl
————————-
Okay, but I’m older than you by quite a bit. :)
If you don’t want to be a baby sister that’s fine with me.
Thanks Reg. I appreciate it.
BTW, I dont bake or do candy. If I did, I’d share it.
Now Green Chile, that’s another matter…
heheheheheh
“He thinks the comments of a comedian on a radio show are worse than warren comparing us to pedophiles and incest?” — chicken lady.
Warren didn’t do that. He was sandbagged. That is, if you’re thinking of the same clip I am. His comparison was more an artifact of how the question was phrased.
Anyway, biblically, I lesbians are completely out of the picture. I don’t think there’s one word about it in the entire bible. Or anything anyone could reasonably interpret that way. Bet they were doing it though.
Ask Lesbos.
#
okobserver
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Outlander you are giving a new respectability to the democrat party. I wasn’t crazy about losing you to the left but I can see a real benefit here. Now if they will only listen to you and tone it down a notch or two.
————-
Thank you for your kind words okobserver but, really it is nothing to be proud of. Sort of like those BB fans you never heard from until the Celtics won the title. Now they are all on the Celtic bandwagon. That’s me, a bandwagoner.
Now I’m just waiting for the advantages of Democrat party membership to start pouring in. BlueJay doesn’t respond when I ask him when they start.
I know being a conservative Christian straight white male Democrat is going to be tough. I think I am the only one. But they said they are the big tent party. Maybe I can get some of that affirmative action so that I can make up for some of the bias that is keeping me from progressing in the party.
I will keep you posted.
“But of course, it’s no big deal. He hasnt taken office yet and he’s invited some gay marching band.
Stunning. Simply stunning.”
I still wish SOMEONE could explain to me what a ‘gay marching band’ is, and how you can tell them from any other marching band. I’ve never seen one to my knowledge.
At least I think I want to have someone tell me….but maybe not.
Do the play with their instruments differently than regular marching bands?
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 19, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
XXX your just on ignore. You arent even worth the energy to respond to.
_________________________________________________
Translation:
It’s hard to respond to kindness with hate.
KFG, we’re all God’s children; even a religious persecutor like you.
Jesus teaches us not to hate a sinner like you, just your sin.
Of course, “…despite the Bible isn’t really clear…” makes you a heretic! Are you demeaning God and His Word?! Your God “…isn’t really clear on the subject?!” You’re gonna be treading molten brimstone for that one!
Not at all Hock.
The Bible is about equal in admonition for the lust of flesh in all cases.
It doesn’t really address a marriage between a man and a woman. It doesn’t address nuclear arms proliferation either.
Some things should be rendered under Caesar with wise counsel and some discussion.
There are Christian architects, but not all architects are Christian.
I say there are wise secular judges as well as secular judges. Judges in the sense of not judging morality, but the legal issue of what is allowed and isn’t.
Equal protection is broadly defined, but narrowly focused in regards to protection.
If people want to enter into marriage exchanging vows and commitment, who am I to stand in their way.
WWJD? I dunno, maybe someday I’ll get the chance to ask him. :)
one of those should be non-secular judges…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 19, 2008 at 4:44 pm | Permalink
…and for kia, amway, outie, XXX and other assorted bigots….
___________________________________________________
On KFG’s say so, we’re bigots. We don’t support an act that’s an abomination before God, and that makes us bigots.
KFG is a religious bigot.
That is very unlikely to happen Regular.
The whole “JC returning” thing is just another myth from the bible.
“an abomination before God”
That’s a difficult thing to prove considering “god” is another myth.
Brown asks state high court to overturn Prop. 8
(12-19) 18:39 PST SAN FRANCISCO — State Attorney General Jerry Brown, in a surprise turnabout, asked the state Supreme Court late today to overturn Proposition 8, saying the voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage violates basic rights guaranteed in the state Constitution.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/19/BA6514RNVU.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1
Let’s see. Follow the teachings of the living God, creator of all that is, OR reject those teachings so that kfg likes me.
Even I can figure that one out.
BTW, okobserver, this isn’t my first foray to the Democrat side. I was a registered, Jimmy Carter voting Democrat until I started liking Ronald Reagan. He set me on the path leading from darkness. I’m leaving a bread crumb trail this time, just in case.
you mean “leading TO the darkness”
you mean “leading TO the darkness”
Outlander I too voted for Jimmy Carter. I was a yellowdog democrat until I grew up and became a conservative. Leave the breadcrumb trail. I’ll send in a rescue party if you don’t come back.
He’ll come back….he’s not that warped.
On KFG’s say so, we’re bigots. We don’t support an act that’s an abomination before God, and that makes us bigots.
KFG is a religious bigot.
Wrong. You’re entitled to believe that, or that eating pork is sinful, or working on the sabbath, or whatnot. You may even feel compelled to believe that.
The difference, obviously, is that you’re telling her that something central to her very existence is an “abomination” and, hence, she is an abomination.
Again, you’re entitled to whatever doctrines you want, but it’s a huge stretch to expect someone not to take serious offense to such a personal judgment–and not just gay people.
Religious freedom doesn’t mean freedom from criticism, and criticism of church doctrine is not, by itself, religious bigotry.
“I was a yellowdog democrat until I grew up and became a conservative”
I can translate.
” I found out I could make money exploiting other people’s labor.”
Oh and outlander? We don’t want you. Standards, ya know?
“We don’t support an act that’s an abomination before God, and that makes us bigots.”
Well, admittedly, I am atheist and see absolutely no evidence for the existence of God. If there in fact WAS a God, I’d want nothing to do with him as I don’t think the God I hear about is one I could like let alone worship. This is only reinforced by the meanness and cruelty among many, maybe even most of the faithful.
With that qualifier, I’m thinking that if God really had a problem with gay marriage, he is availed of opportunity to take a personal first hand in preventing it. I don’t like making laws based on people’s take on what they THINK God tells them. Whether they see themslves as divinely assigned or otherwise.
Obama lost points here. Does he make it up with people I really do not like is anybody’s guess.
When I watch the inauguration, I will mute the sound when Warren speaks. Some one of you of the divinely assigned can let me know what he says.
The score for me is:
Obama out in four 1
Give Obama a chance 0
I don’t like making laws based on people’s take on what they THINK God tells them.
That should never happen in America.
What?
Obama’s not for gay rights?
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww…
Too bad.
“The difference, obviously, is that you’re telling her that something central to her very existence is an “abomination” and, hence, she is an abomination.
Again, you’re entitled to whatever doctrines you want, but it’s a huge stretch to expect someone not to take serious offense to such a personal judgment–and not just gay people.”—Rage
Well ya know, that’s tough….because homosexuality is an abomination, and if someone is intent on choosing that lifestyle, and those acts, then if the shoe fits, wear it.
“Religious freedom doesn’t mean freedom from criticism, and criticism of church doctrine is not, by itself, religious bigotry.”
And perverted lifestyle choices doesn’t mean freedom from criticism either, and the criticism of church doctrine most assuredly is religious bigotry around here.
How about treating people mean or exploiting them is an abomination?
OOps that aint in the book. Slavery and the cruelest of treatment, hey even murder and war, THEY are in the “good” book.
Again, if God has instruction or wisdom for me? I will require he impart them in person.
I’m not much on taking the word of no shows seriously.
Well.
I have been quite busy lately but I did want to comment on this thread.
The tone deafness of Barack Obama with this selection is truly astounding, and ksfarmgrrl is right, this is now a pattern (and I realize that she would argue that it already was a pattern).
Regarding Rhonda Holman’s statements that opened this thread:
“With the pick, Obama clearly is trying to reach out to all Americans.”
If that was his intent, Rhonda, his failure in excecution is truly remarkable. Let’s review:
Barack Obama won the presidency. Part of his message was to focus on what different groups of people have in common, rather than on their differences.
Proposition 8, which repealed the court decision that allowed same gender marriages by amending the constitution, was very narrowly passed. The apparent reason, at least in part, for this passage was the unprecedented turn out of African Americans in support of Barack Obama. An unintended effect to be sure, but still one that stung the people in California who were either LGBT, or those who love and support them. If that turnout had not happened, Proposition 8 would have failed, and Obama still would have easily won California. And of course, the increased turnout was inspiring even as it had a tragic effect with regards to Proposition 8.
I don’t think Barack Obama is necessarily hostile to people who are LGBT (or for that matter the so called “secular left”, which has been identified as the fastest growing block in American politics), but what he may be instead is just as bad, if not worse. He sees these those of us in these two groups as a political liability (indeed, that was the lesson that he thought Democrats needed to take from the 2004 elections, that they turned off values voters). He sees us like some Republicans see the Christian Right (oh, I appreciate their support, and they may complain, but really, where else can they go?). The problem with this kind of political mathematics is, I think, more damaging than he realizes. Part of the reason why the Democrats came back so strongly in 2006 and 2008 is because the values voters overplayed their hand. When people like those who are active in CR politics overplay their hand, it is an opportunity to try to unite those who agree that they overplayed their hand on those areas of agreement. The message of his election should be that people who are LGBT and those who are not, those who believe and those who do not, can accomplish a lot by focusing on what they have in common first. But being true to that message means being very intentional in who you choose to be your symbol of unity. Among other things, Warren, who had a reputation for trying to move the evangelical activists beyond abortions and moral hot button issues, damaged his (vastly overblown anyway) eucemenical reputation in a very personal way both by involving himself in the presidential election and in his activism for Proposition 8. In doing so, he moved himself further into the spotlight and revealed himself to be much like his other CR bretheren on the very hot button issues that define the CR. When he did that, he became a divisive figure. Obama does not seem to have realized that. Furthermore, he does not seem to have realized how fragile his reputation with some of those most hurt by the CR’s divisiveness has become.
You reach out to the most people by reaching out to those who themselves reach out to a broad group of people. Otherwise, when you reach out to one person on one side of a divide, you show the back of your hand to the people on the other side of the divide. And in this case, Obama has shown the back of his hand to people who have already seen it too many times before.
I would say it was uncharacteristically tone deaf of him, but in this case it is a tone deafness he has shown before. Obama, according to the NPR story I heard on the subject, thought that selecting Rick Warren (whom he actually known for awhile) was a way to broaden his outreach. He is wrong. In the wake of the tragedy that his campaign unwittingly contributed to in California, he has not only failed to reach out and try to heal the divide there, he has reopened and poured salt on the wound.
Rhonda, you can not reach out to all Americans by choosing a person who publically mounted a crusade against a group of people who supported you, especially when you already owe a considerable karmic debt to those people.
He could have picked someone else who would really have had broad appeal but with whom he had public disagreements. It is clear that to Barack Obama, some prejudices can cross the line, but others can result in gentlemen’s disagreements. When there really isn’t a difference, that sort of inconsistency can and will be taken very personally.
As for Boxlock, maybe many people posting here are not aware of this, but he once taunted the writer of a letter to the editor who mentioned his husband’s death from AIDS, basically saying he asked for it.
An ugly, ugly poster. He’s no better than a Stormfront flamethrower.
“Let’s see. Follow the teachings of the living God, creator of all that is, OR reject those teachings so that kfg likes me.
“Even I can figure that one out.”
Let me correct that for you.
“Let’s see. Follow the teachings of my religious faith even when they fly in the face of compassion or common decency, Or reject those teachings when they DO fly in the face of compassion or common decency.”
What you have “figured out” outlander, does not speak well of you.
“As for Boxlock, maybe many people posting here are not aware of this, but he once taunted the writer of a letter to the editor who mentioned his husband’s death from AIDS, basically saying he asked for it.”
No way!
You mean bawks took pleasure and elevated himself on someone else’s pain? How DID I miss that?
Oh yeah, that is who he is.
But DO post a link.
If that turnout had not happened, Proposition 8 would have failed, and Obama still would have easily won California. And of course, the increased turnout was inspiring even as it had a tragic effect with regards to Proposition 8.
What I find politically comprehensible but not ethically excusable was Obama’s silence on Prop 8 in the first place.
The man has promised, on the transition website, a progressive agenda for equality.
He’d better fucking deliver.
P.S. Agnatha, very good post.
Obama needs to realize that looking to the future has to do with more than high-tech government and green-collar jobs.
And it’s not about liberalism per se, unless one has to be liberal to support an egalitarian society (I have my own view on that one, but I’ll let it go for now).
Did further research. Rick Warren is a pig. And looks like one.
Ag,
One fairly bright ray of hope in the prop 8 mess is that the California AG filed a brief to the State Supreme Court yesterday that the initiative is invalid, since it renders the state constitution self-contradictory. If his efforts succeed, prop 8 is a dead issue in California and the precedent may have far-reaching influence on the other states that have passed hate amendments, such as Kansas. It may even affect other hate legislation, such as some immigration laws and proposals. Such a decision would be as great a step towards a truly equal under the law society as Brown v. BOE was in 1954!
Agnatha comments Posted December 20, 2008 at 12:27 am is a out and out LIE!
Link or shut up!
As I recall I was commenting on the societal problems homosexuality brings, as the men were homosexual. To deny statistical fact at the alter of political correctness with respect to homosexuality is a crime against society.
Agnatha
Posted December 20, 2008 at 12:23 am | Permalink
The tone deafness of Barack Obama with this selection is truly astounding, and ksfarmgrrl is right, this is now a pattern (and I realize that she would argue that it already was a pattern).
—————————————————-
You leftists truly are “Special”.
The likes of Barack Obama and Bill Clinton WIN elections by acting moderate. Nothing more nothing less.
Mr. Kia,
Your efforts are to be commended in trying to educate the radical left liberals but it is an effort in futility.
They, I am convinced, are mentally ill and incapable of right understanding.
Don’t get discouraged if you see no progress.
I’ve thought long and strong on the gay marriage issue. Several Bible verses entered my mind as I struggled with it.
A commandment: Love your neighbor
Several verses here: Sins of the flesh, including prostitution, unmarried sex (from either or same sex) are sinful IAW the word of God.
Lastly, some wisdom from St. Matthew:
1 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged.2 For you will be treated as you treat others.* The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.*
3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye* when you have a log in your own?4 How can you think of saying to your friend,* ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye?5 Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.
6 “Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy.* Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.
Oh yeah, just to be clear, I would rather there be gay marriage and lust of flesh outside of marriage. Strong commitment, one to the other in matrimony, regardless of gender.
oops than lust of flesh outside of marriage :D
not enough coffee
May all the WEBloggers have love to share, health to spare and friends who care.
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” (Matthew 22:36 NIV). Jesus replied, ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV).
“Proposition 8, which repealed the court decision that allowed same gender marriages by amending the constitution, was very narrowly passed.”
No….it was by a comfortable margin, 52.2% to 47.8%.
“The apparent reason, at least in part, for this passage was the unprecedented turn out of African Americans in support of Barack Obama. An unintended effect to be sure, but still one that stung the people in California…”
Translated, the African Americans have no right to vote, voicing their opinion on this subject.
Agnatha obviously considers anyone, Obama in this case, that reaches out to anyone not firmly in the Agnatha camp as divisive.
Now that’s not very inclusive, just what she/he accuses Obama of, and calling the kettle black.
“Agnatha comments Posted December 20, 2008 at 12:27 am is a out and out LIE!
“Link or shut up!”
Well, I tried, but the letters to the editor only go back to the first of December, and apparently the letter was written before then. Furthermore, the Eagle has apparently purged earlier comments on the letter section (if you go back to the early letters, you will see “0 comments”).
However, I stand by what I wrote. A letter writer who self identified as a gay man wrote a letter to the editor indicating that he was hurt by the recent state initiatives and activism against gay marriage, and referenced his long, monogamous relationship with his late husband, who he indicated died of AIDS.
Your response, Boxlock, was along the lines of “well, it’s his fault he died of AIDS”. And the comment was addressed to the writer of the letter.
I sincerely hope that letter writer did not see that comment. It was truly heartless.
I can not link to the comment. Like I said, I tried, but I am not lying. And that is a fact.
Reg.,
Christian’s are also admonished to try and bring the sinner back, and instructed even in the steps involved.
To care for our brothers does not mean accepting sinful, harmful behavior.
“Well, I tried”,….therefore it must be just as I said.
Bull!!
“Your response, Boxlock, was along the lines of “well, it’s his fault he died of AIDS”. And the comment was addressed to the writer of the letter.”
Again, Bull!!! I was addressing the readers as a whole, NOT that individual personally.
The letter writer did not reveal how his husband contacted AIDS, but the odds of it being from another cause than homosexual contact is very remote statically, making questionable how monogamous the relationship truly was. Also, I recall the writer commenting on the long term relationship, not how monogamous it was.
Agnatha, you made a accusation you can NOT support. It is clear you are projecting your own idea, not supportable in fact.
#
Boxlock20
Posted December 20, 2008 at 9:16 am | Permalink
Reg.,
Christian’s are also admonished to try and bring the sinner back, and instructed even in the steps involved.
To care for our brothers does not mean accepting sinful, harmful behavior.
—————-
True, but I find nothing in the Bible that addresses ‘gay marriage’ just lust of flesh.
There are marriages by arrangement, I disagree with this.
There are marriages made with ulterior motives, wealth and/or fame.
There are enough level headed people who are gay that want to be ‘legal’ and married. I bet there are some that you didn’t even know are gay.
My personal choice is to be straight. I think gay sex, especially between males is awful - But that’s me and my opinion.
I very much dislike ‘in your face’ gays like some in San Fran and New York, but I don’t associate with them, so I’m fine. Let them act the fool.
Don’t sweat it Agnatha.
We certainly have more recent proof that Bawkslots get his yuks on the blade of being self righteous and hurtful with his faith as a weapon on others.
Oh, and another thing - If I spend all my time hating, then I become just like those of Westboro Baptist in Topeka.
I don’t want to do that.
Hehehe. Bigotbawks is a frequent commenter on letters to the editor. And given the obvious hatred and ill wishes to gays he expresses here daily, does anyone REALLY doubt agantha?
I mean, who ya gonna believe? Bigotbawks? Or those lyin’ eyes of yours. Besides, Agnatha is a well respected poster here with no history of making things up or lying.
Bigotbawks on the other hand, CROWS about his lies. He’s PROUD of lying to JR and I.
And, I might add, he has YET to tell us which church says it’s ok to ignore the “thou shalt not lie” commandment as long as he is lying to “teach JR a lesson.”
Typical christian.
Not unlike XXX. At least from now on, XXX will be seen for what he his. He cant wear his “good guy disguise” without posters remembering his deeply anti gay stance. He is indeed the face of the democratic party.
Just ask Inga Taylor.
From another blog:
” I never expected to agree with everything Obama does. But I never expected to be aghast at a choice he has made.”
And this from DEMOCRATIC Underground, where one of the rules is that you must support democratic candidates. And the shit storm is still raging.
“That little voice that says “What? and Oh NO”
I understand that Obama has not taken office yet. I want to retain the wonderful feeling I had on election night, listening to Obama’s acceptance speech. I wanted to be totally over-the-top thrilled on inauguration day. But that little voice in my head keeps saying, “What? and Oh NO.”
How has “hope and change” morphed into “what? and OH NO” so quickly?
My hope is turning into an unsettling fear. A fear that “hope” just isn’t for everybody, and “change” is just a marketing term.
There has been too many negative surprises.
And that little voice is fretting now. Is that little voice gonna be saying “What? and Oh NO!” when Obama names his first nominee for Supreme Court?
I’m trying to hold on. I’m trying.”
One of the MAIN if not ONLY reason some folks voted for obama was to put the supreme court appointments out of reach of the nut job religious reich.
Do you really think that is what obama will do, given that he’s willing to throw his base under the bus to pander to the fundies? Really?
good luck with that
How many times can one person say “I told you so”?
And yeah, Agnatha. Obama’s actions regarding fundies and gays was a pattern BEFORE the election. But, ya know, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
He was willing to throw Wright under the bus claiming, after 20 years, he didnt know what Wright was preaching.
He KNOWS who rick warren is. And yet? He sticks with warren despite a poll among democrats showing that over 90 percent think warren should be disinvited.
Cue Cindy Lauper singing “True Colors”.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 9:56 am | Permalink
From another blog:
” I never expected to agree with everything Obama does. But I never expected to be aghast at a choice he has made.”
—————————————————-
Do you really think your views are that mainstream?
Warren is the most popular Pastor in America today.
He is a man of Integrity. His book A Purpose Driven Life has sold 25,000,000 copies.
How do you think removing an invocation from the Inauguration all together would sit with Americans?
This is rick warren. Sorry for the length, but of course, the people who most need to read this would be too lazy to click the links.
Rick Warren praised Anglican bishop implicated in massacre of 600 Muslims
From Episcopal Cafe (quoting sections of an article in Atlantic Monthly):
“Two months after the church was razed, Christian men and boys surrounded Yelwa. Many were bare-chested; others wore shirts on which they’d reportedly pinned white name tags identifying them as members of the Christian Association of Nigeria, an umbrella organization founded in the 1970s to give Christians a collective and unified voice as strong as that of Muslims. Each tag had a number instead of a name: a code, it seemed, for identification. They attacked the town. According to Human Rights Watch, 660 Muslims were massacred over the course of the next two days, including the patients in the Al-Amin clinic. Twelve mosques and 300 houses went up in flames. Young girls were marched to a nearby Christian town and forced to eat pork and drink alcohol. Many were raped, and 50 were killed.”
Griswold was introduced to two young women, Hamamatu Danladi and Yasira Ibrahim, who had survived the incident.
“During the Christian attack, the two young women took shelter in an elder’s guarded home. On the second day, the Christian militia arrived at the house. They were covered in red and blue paint and were wearing those numbered white name tags. The Christians first killed the guards, then chose among the women. With others, the two young women were marched toward the Christian village. “They were killing children on the road,” Danladi said. Outside the elementary school, her abductor grabbed hold of two Muslim boys she knew, 9 and 10 years old. Along with other men, he took a machete to them until they were in pieces, then wrapped the pieces in a rubber tire and set it on fire.
“When Danladi and Ibrahim reached their captors’ village, they were forced to drink alcohol and to eat pork and dog meat. Although she was obviously pregnant, Danladi’s abductor repeatedly raped her during the next four days. After a month, the police fetched Danladi and Ibrahim from the Christian village and took them to the camp where most of the town’s Muslim residents had fled. There, the two young women were reunited with their husbands. They never discussed what happened in the bush.”
…
“At the time of the massacre, Archbishop Peter Akinola was the president of the Christian Association of?Nigeria, whose membership was implicated in the killings. He has since lost his bid for another term but, as primate of the Anglican Church of Nigeria, he is still the leader of 18 million Anglicans”
…
“When asked if those wearing name tags that read ‘Christian Association of Nigeria’ had been sent to the Muslim part of Yelwa, the archbishop (Peter Akinola) grinned. ‘No comment,’ he said. ‘No Christian would pray for violence, but it would be utterly naive to sweep this issue of Islam under the carpet.’ He went on, ‘I’m not out to combat anybody. I’m only doing what the Holy Spirit tells me to do. I’m living my faith, practicing and preaching that Jesus Christ is the one and only way to God, and they respect me for it. They know where we stand. I’ve said before: let no Muslim think they have the monopoly on violence.’”
Source: http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/anglican_communion/ar...
…..
Rick Warren, praising Archbishop Peter Akinola in Time Magazine:
Nigerian Anglican Archbishop Peter Akinola captured headlines last year for leading the worldwide revolt of evangelical Anglicans against the ordination of gay bishops in the U.S. by the Episcopal Church. But to caricature his ministry with that one issue would severely underestimate his importance. Akinola personifies the epochal change in the Christian church, namely that the leadership, influence, growth and center of gravity in Christianity is shifting from the northern hemisphere to the southern. New African, Asian and Latin American church leaders like Akinola, 61, are bright, biblical, courageous and willing to point out the inconsistencies, weaknesses and theological drift in Western churches.
With nearly 18 million active Anglicans in Nigeria, Akinola’s flock dwarfs the mother Church of England’s membership. And since he is chairman of the 37 million—member Council of Anglican Provinces in Africa, when he speaks, far more than just Anglicans pay attention. Akinola has the strength of a lion, useful in confronting Third World fundamentalism and First World relativism. He has been criticized for recent remarks of frustration that some felt exacerbated Muslim-Christian clashes in his country. But Christians are routinely attacked in parts of Nigeria, and his anger was no more characteristic than Nelson Mandela’s apartheid-era statement that “sooner or later this violence is going to spread to whites.” I believe he, like Mandela, is a man of peace and his leadership is a model for Christians around the world.
Source: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,118722...
“How do you think removing an invocation from the Inauguration all together would sit with Americans?”
It would not bother me. I fail to see what purpose it serves beyond symbolic and traditional kudos to the religious faithful.
Oh Jesus WEPT! The ankle biter is back.
“Warren is the most popular Pastor in America today.
He is a man of Integrity. His book A Purpose Driven Life has sold 25,000,000 copies.”
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAH.
Paris Hilton is popular and her books and videos have sold a hell of a lot of copies too.
Let’s make PARIS our spiritual leader and give the jesus whine at the ceremony.
Like I said, Kia gets his ass kicked so many times he’s made it clear he’s more masochist than christian.
“Again, Bull!!! I was addressing the readers as a whole, NOT that individual personally.”
There are things you don’t do if you have an ounce of compassion and sense. It seems you do remember the comments you wrote. I recall the comment as being directed towards the letter writer. If I am wrong, I am wrong. The fact of history does not change due to memory. But, I don’t believe I am wrong. I would not have reacted that way to a gallery comment (although it still would have been inappropriate).
“The letter writer did not reveal how his husband contacted AIDS, but the odds of it being from another cause than homosexual contact is very remote statically, making questionable how monogamous the relationship truly was.”
The AIDS could easily have been contracted before the relationship. People now live with AIDs for many years, but it still kills people.
Like I said, it is more obvious with each passing day that obama and george bush share the trait that they can NOT admit when they’ve made a mistake. Or that they were wrong.
Welcome to the reich of the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Come on bigotbawks, you know you believe that aids is what gay people deserve. You’ve said it here a hundred times, despite the numbers of straight people living and dying with aids.
Why are you trying to say something that is so obviously in character for you to say? You’ve said worse, and similar, and stand behind those missives of evil. Why are you denying this one?
A poster’s reputation is built over time. Agnatha has built a good one. You? Not so much.
Now who do you think readers here are going to believe? You, the hateful poster who daily posts vile attacks on gay people? Or the reasoned and thoughtful Agnatha?
heheheh. HAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH
And as I said, Democrats WIN elections by appealing to a MODERATE base. Moderates for the most part will claim a Christian belief or at the very least religious.
Care to try and refute that?
Heheheh. When shown to be the idiot he is, kia always changes the subject.
No, I’m not going to chase your tail. You do a great job of it on your own.
Adding Religious = a belief in God.
I mean honestly? What IS the invocation?
“God? We’d really like you onboard going forward. We’re pretty confident we have your endorsement and approval. We here so mention. From time to time, we will remind people that everything we do is with your assumed approval and support. R E S P E C T. Amen”?
Better have another drink quickly kia. You are waaaay too sober right now.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 10:18 am | Permalink
Heheheh. When shown to be the idiot he is, kia always changes the subject.
No, I’m not going to chase your tail. You do a great job of it on your own.
—————————————————-
That’s your MO when you have no answer.
“I very much dislike ‘in your face’ gays like some in San Fran and New York, but I don’t associate with them, so I’m fine. Let them act the fool.”
And that is EXACTLY where I am coming from as well Reg.
I really, really honestly don’t care what gays do as long as it’s not an in your face attitude, and an attempt to change society into what they want it to be, and as opposed to what the majority of Americans feel.
Sure I think homosexually is wrong as well. I have been instructed as such by the Bible and those that make it their vocations or calling to bring that word to us. I do not think it my place to impose those feelings on others, but I most certainly do feel it my responsibility to defend against what feel is harmful to society in general and more specifically to my family, including grandchildren, as well as others, and in how it might negatively impact us all in the future.
I have what I consider to be good and close friends, one specifically I am open with, that are gay, and in a long term relationship, that by the way is very troubled and may not survive. I do not condemn him, he and his partner are welcome in my home, but I will not compromise by views on the subject simply because we are friends. He knows and accepts that, as I do him, as a true friends who wish the best for each other and our families and lives.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 10:19 am | Permalink
Better have another drink quickly kia. You are waaaay too sober right now.
—————————————————-
More of your MO when you head has been shoved up your ass.
“Come on bigotbawks, you know you believe that aids is what gay people deserve. You’ve said it here a hundred times, despite the numbers of straight people living and dying with aids.”
LIE…..prove that absolutely false statement.
Remind us bigotbawks, which church is it that condones your deliberate lies?
Which church says it’s ok to lie as long as you are doing it to “teach JR a lesson”?
Come on, tell us.
Brought anyone to christ lately?
You really don’t have a clue about what you hate so much do you?
Hee hee hee heeeee…
I wonder if bigotbawks “good friend” thinks the same of bigotbawks, or if he is just too polite to tell him to his face?
heheh. HAHAHAHA.
I’d LOVE to hear what this “good friend” says when bigotbawks is not around….
“You really don’t have a clue about what you hate so much do you?”
We already went through this. You challenged me on my knowledge, I accepted, and you pussied out.
Wanna do it again today?
Bring it.
I know a hell of a lot more about your church of bigotry than you know about being gay.
As evidenced by the ass kicking you got yesterday.
That’s what happens when you are caught posting drunk. And stupid. And cowardly.
Wanna challenge my knowledge?
Bring it.
“LIE…..prove that absolutely false statement.”
Sure. Just as soon as you let us know which church condones deliberate lying, and where in the bible it says lying is ok when you are teaching an infidel a lessson.
Waiting….
“The AIDS could easily have been contracted before the relationship. People now live with AIDs for many years, but it still kills people.”
My point exactly….we can all be forgiven, but we can not escape the consequences of our behavior. So, we need to examine the behavior.
This may well have been a case in point.
I have a very good and respected friend, who is a responsible person and wonderful husband, father and caregiver. Yet he spent a time long ago involved in drugs and alcohol and contacted Hepatitis C. That disease is attacking his liver and it will without doubt greatly shorten his life barring something else happening. That is a tragedy for us all but especially his family. Should we all accept that past behavior, as you seem to think we should accept homosexual behavior, the leading cause of AIDS in the U.S.?
You don’t have a clue on the foundation of Christianity that we are ALL sinners seperated from God and in need of a Savior.
Case in point which you have puked up over and over again over the last couple of days:
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 10:23 am | Permalink
Which church says it’s ok to lie as long as you are doing it to “teach JR a lesson”?
Hmmmmm
I wonder if there isn’t a very LITERAL way to show President elect Obama how we feel about this pick?
Now, I will mute the sound when Warren speaks.
But, if I was there, on the Mall…..
Maybe…turn my back when he speaks?
bush’s inauguration was encapsulated and described in history forever the attitude toward it when his limo was pelted with eggs.
I wonder if there will not be some sort of very public message sent to Obama during the Warren “God? YOU da man!” speech?
Your friend BlowJay is a childish bully.
He made the challenge to meet in a stupid parking lot to, well who knows what his twisted mind wanted to accomplish.
He had done so on previous occasions and I simply got fed up with it and decided to let him take himself down that path with the intent of letting him stand there considering the stupidity of the challenge.
It works beautifully….if you think that was inappropriate on my part well…who cares. I refuse to make myself a fool by showing up like a dumb middle school kid with a fragile ego.
You show yourself no smarter.
“He made the challenge to meet in a stupid parking lot ”
An idea I borrowed from another poster.
One of yours?
“who knows what his twisted mind wanted to accomplish.”
I wanted a look at you before you and your kind go extinct.
Seriously and stated before, I wanted you to look me in the eye and tell me in your own words how it is that gay people getting married diminishes you, your marriage, or your God. I wanted you to explain to me just how it is with a loving heart that you use your faith as a weapon to hurt people for some sort of sick self satisfaction or enrichment.
That you didn’t even show up, or maybe did and then punked out forms at least MY evaluation of your character.
Others are free to make their own judgment.
Good luck.
“Should we all accept that past behavior, as you seem to think we should accept homosexual behavior, the leading cause of AIDS in the U.S.?”
With STD’s, it is often pointed out that monogamy (e.g., as is supposed to occur in a marriage) is an effective strategy for avoiding STD’s. Would that not be the same for people who are in same gender relationships?
HEHEHEHEH
“It works beautifully….if you think that was inappropriate on my part ”
Like I said, typical pick and chose christian.
Violating one of the SIMPLE commandments is only “inappropriate”.
So kia, what say you about someone who is PROUD of their sin and DEFENDS their deliberate lie?
What is it you all say about unrepentant sinners?
Mr_Kia
Posted December 20, 2008 at 10:30 am | Permalink
You don’t have a clue on the foundation of Christianity that we are ALL sinners seperated from God and in need of a Savior.
Case in point which you have puked up over and over again over the last couple of days:
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 10:23 am | Permalink
Which church says it’s ok to lie as long as you are doing it to “teach JR a lesson”?
————————————————–
I responded within 2 minutes of the challenge.
It’s 31 minutes later.
Feeding the chickens?
“I refuse to make myself a fool by showing up”
Then you should not have lied and said you would show up. You should have declined to begin with.
And you are still unrepentant of your lie.
And NOW you want readers to believe you DIDNT make a hateful comment to a gay person? When you are a PROUD liar?
hehehhe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
What is it you all say about unrepentant sinners?
—————————————————-
I all don’t say anything.
The Word of God says something.
However my personal belief is if one is a Believer there are a lot of things ultimately between you and God.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink
Typical christian.
Not unlike XXX. At least from now on, XXX will be seen for what he his. He cant wear his “good guy disguise” without posters remembering his deeply anti gay stance. He is indeed the face of the democratic party.
Just ask Inga Taylor.
________________________________________________
KFG, you are so full of $hit. You have one issue, and one issue only.
Anti-gay? Hardly. I just don’t care for people who constantly hammer my beliefs (like you). I don’t consider gays to be my enemies, just you and gays who are anti-Christian like you.
You have the same rights that I do. Quit your bitchin, call a waaaambulance, and live with your “problem”.
“I responded within 2 minutes of the challenge.”
I dont see a question there. Just another pompous statement of what you think you know.
I guess that’s a “no” on challenging my knowledge of your religion.
And no, I wasnt feeding chickens, I had company. I have a life. Friends, ya know? Well, given your pompous ass and drinking problem, you probably dont know.
NOW I’m going out to feed the chickens and give them hot water. But I’ll be back.
I know enough that you can’t even admit when you are wrong.
Otherwise you would not question what Church “condones” “lying” (sinning).
“You have the same rights that I do”
That’s the typical wingnut line. And you said long ago you voted FOR the kansas hate amendment.
“attack of the killer fairies”
Like I said, with statements like that, people are seeing the true XXX. He’s been trying to hide it, but sooner or later, it always comes out.
your fine with gays, as long as they dont challenge your bigotry. As long as the shut up and ride happily in the back of the bus.
Oh but you are killing us with your kindness. Heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
True colors.
“Otherwise you would not question what Church “condones” “lying” (sinning)”
Hee hee hee…
I’M the one who cant admit I’m wrong?
Uh, check out bigotbawks. He’s such a BIG church guy and yet, he still has PRIDE in his lies.
I’m just wondering why a BIG church guy cant tell me WHICH church condones his lies?
No answer from him. Are you saying NO church condones deliberate lies?
Thank you.
But I’M the one who cant admit I’m wrong?
hee hee hee hee heeeeeeeeeeee…..
And there you have it. Hypocrits all,
When it comes to guys like bigotbawks, kia and XXX, it’s
“Doctrine for thee, but not for me!”
I thought there was no order of magnitude in sin.
So… that makes bigotbawks, an unrepentant liar, the same as unrepentant gays, right?
And XXX just has selective hatred and bigotry against a FEW gays who refuse to accept religion’s foot on their necks.
But it’s ok, because he doesnt hate all gays. He loves the good ones in the closet. Not the out ones who, ya know, actually stand up for themselves.
Remember, he’s also the one who defends the south and the flying of the confederate flag as his “heritage”.
His selective treatment of “good gays” and “bad gays” sounds an awful lot like the southerners who have no problem with their “good negros”.
But they dont like the “uppity ones”.
XXX is fine with good gays. Not so much with the uppity ones.
Condones No.
Recognizes that the entire church body is Yes.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink
I thought there was no order of magnitude in sin.
So… that makes bigotbawks, an unrepentant liar, the same as unrepentant gays, right?
—————————————————-
True if the unrepentant gay has accepted Christ’s sacrfice for their sin.
HEHEHEHEH. HAHAHAHAHAHA
“Condones No”
That’s what I’ve been trying to say.
And bigotbawks refuses to admit he is selective in which church doctrine he accepts. And which damns gays to hell.
As long as he is unrepentant, he’s outside grace. As long as he continues to defend his deliberate lie, he’s rejecting christ’s admonition to “go forth and sin no more”.
Kinda like what he says about gays.
Hypocrisy, thy name is…
I couldnt have said it better myself kia.
Thank you.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink
“You have the same rights that I do”
That’s the typical wingnut line. And you said long ago you voted FOR the kansas hate amendment.
_________________________________________________
You’re a damn liar.
I challenge your fat ugly ass to produce any evidence where I said I voted for the hate amendment. I did in fact vote against it.
Put up or shut up.
I’m not from the belief system that one can lose their Salvation.
Well good for you. Sorry if I was wrong about that.
I dont care enough about you or what you say to do a bone dig.
Your words here “attack of the killer fairies” and “fat ugly ass” speak for themselves.
I dont need to show anyone who you are. You are doing a fine job of it yourself.
I guess that would be more “killing with kindness”.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA
Sigh….
I am PROBABLY gonna regret this…
I know both farmgrrl and XXX personally.
As in I have met them. They are real people and so to me more than just a fart on the wind in the form of words on a faceless blog. They are both fine people who I am proud to claim as friends.
I am not aware of XXX EVER claiming to have voted for the hate amendment. I was surprised and shocked to have it suggested. I started to say so but figured better to wait.
I will take him at his word stated here that he did not.
The face of the fallen christian.
http://crooksandliars.com/
I’ll take his word for it too, JR. He is a hypocrite, but not generally a liar. I do remember it, early on in my posting, like in 2006. But I dont care enough about him to do a bone dig.
But I bet if you did, you’d find it. Not that I think you should waste any energy on it either.
His words here stand on their own.
X?
You and I cannot know what it is to have laws made against us and be badly treated by society just for who it is we are. I have said before and repeat now, we can only imagine what that must be like. If you are…impatient with her passion it is, at the worst, the closest you can come to understanding it.
Farmgrrl? I love you dearly. I will have your back in almost any fight and you know it.
You are looking too HARD for enemies. And we have a way of finding what we are really looking hard for.
You are one of the warmest, kindest and friendly people it is my pleasure to know. But that is not how you are coming across here.
Please remember! There are people who read here who for one reason or another will never meet you in person as many have.
I dont give a rat’s ass what anyone here thinks of me. It doesnt change the truth.
And I’m so sure “attack of the killer fairies” and his other comments mean he’s not my enemy.
Right. You betchya.
I know he’s your friend, but it doesnt make the indefensible defensible. He is what he is. Denying it doesnt change it.
“I challenge your fat ugly ass ”
Entirely unnecessary, cruel and mean.
But reactionary. Said in indignation.
“And you said long ago you voted FOR the kansas hate amendment.”
Apparently incorrect. Not proven one way or the other. Again, reactionary.
Do the 2006 bone dig JR. You are better at it than I am.
http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2008/12/rick-warrens-hero-wa-criswell-also-used.html
Dammit.
Let’s make nice is NOT my forte.
I’d rather be beating up the cons than refereeing my friends.
HE stopped swinging at you. You stop swinging at him.
Do the bone dig JR for yourself. You dont have to post the results here if you want to protect him.
But you need to do it for yourself.
YOU made the charge.
Like when a poster here accused me of using illegal drugs, said he could prove it, then half heartedly apologized when he couldn’t?
Stop. You’re swinging wild. And you are better than that.
I can’t PRETEND to understand your hurt. I can’t. And I will be right down the throat of anyone who exploits it.
Hell, you cant even DO a 2006 bone dig here anymore. I tried.
I’ll just let XXX words here stand on their own.
If you want to defend him, knock yourself out.
But I wont be forgetting anytime soon.
Well you’ll probably get mad at me. Go ahead. I’m in no position to understand your hurt.
He said HERE TODAY that he did not vote for it.
I’m gonna believe him. I think you should too.
And I already said I didn’t like some of the things he said here. But you are swinging too.
That’s it. I’m out. I am not going to do this fight further. I shall be disappointed for both of you if you cannot work this out.
“who knows what his twisted mind wanted to accomplish.”
“I wanted a look at you before you and your kind go extinct.”—BlueJay
Gee, I sure am sorry BJ I couldn’t accommodate you, since you think I need to be available and responsive to your beck and call.
If I had shown up it would have been very easy to identify you standing there with your knuckles dragging the ground.
“I refuse to make myself a fool by showing up”
“Then you should not have lied and said you would show up. You should have declined to begin with.”..kfg
Declining would do absolutely no good, BJ had challenged before, I believe a couple of times. And look who is talking, you were complicent in the provocation in that you were spouting off calling me coward and other such complements. No, instead of giving him respect in his childishness I let him play the joke on himself.
Now lets see kfg, I can’t remember, which commandment is it that says one has to obey and accept childish challenges from hotheads, give me which one it is.
Seems your idea of grace is since we all sin there is no need to resist sin, simply go with whatever you like.
That is being a slave to sin.
“Boxlock20″ –
It’s pretty obvious to everyone your telling “BlueJay” you’d meet up with him, when you claim you never had any intention, falls within the purview of the Law of Moses.
Even worse, it’s tacky behavior and breaks the Law of Emily Post.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:41 am | Permalink
I do remember it, early on in my posting, like in 2006. But I dont care enough about him to do a bone dig.
___________________________________________________
So KFG’s lie stands.
Let the record show that KFG will stoop to lies and slander to make her point.
_________________________________________________
“But I dont care enough about him to do a bone dig.”
_________________________________________________
More like you’ve been called out as the low-rent liar that you are and can’t prove your claim.
As I said, put up or shut up.
Otherwise, you owe me an apology, liar.
I challenge all you christians to find a passage in the Bible which condemns female-to-female sexual love.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:35 am | Permalink
Your words here “attack of the killer fairies” and “fat ugly ass” speak for themselves.
__________________________________________________
Maybe you’d like for me to do a bonedig to find some of the vile, ugly things you’ve said about Christians.
Maybe you should consider that Christians feel just as strongly about their faith as you do about your sexual orientation.
You slam Christians, but scream like a mashed cat if anybody doesn’t support gays.
Hypocrite
Crybaby
Liar
Monkey,
Hopefully, for the last time.
I could not get away from BlowJay, he continued to spew his ridiculous challenge to “meetup”, and in a asinine way.
I was damned if I do, and damned if I don’t, that’s the game he plays.
I elected to let him teach himself a lesson by simply letting him go with what he thought he wanted, to find out later that maybe it wasn’t after all.
I’m not gonna jump in the middle of this because, quote frankly, I’m tired of trying to play mediator in this playground, and I’m not that good at it.
I’ll just this much.
X, however offended you were with what KFG was saying, she was not attacking you personally, and starting the thread with insults was not a good way to deal with it.
I know that you stated repeatedly in 2006, in one way or another, that you did not vote for the Hate amendment. You might have brought that up at the outset.
Rage out. . .
Is there some part of this you dont understand?
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:35 am | Permalink
Well good for you. Sorry if I was wrong about that.
I dont care enough about you or what you say to do a bone dig.
Your words here “attack of the killer fairies” and “fat ugly ass” speak for themselves.
I dont need to show anyone who you are. You are doing a fine job of it yourself.”
I dont remember it the way Rage does, but I cant do a bone dig for 2006 to prove it. I said I apologize if I was wrong. In thinking about it, I may be wrong. It may have been Crusader X, not XXX that said it.
IF I’m wrong, I apologize. I’ve said it three times now, since apparantly you couldnt read or comprehend it the first time. I dont think you want an apology though. You want an ass kissing, and you’re are not going to get that from me.
I may have been wrong about how you voted, but given your posts here, I’m not wrong about who you are.
Thanks for proving it again.
heheheh, and for bigotbawks, I see he is STILL an unrepentant, premeditated liar.
No one cared if you met JR or not. I issued no invitation to meet you, and you deliberately lied to me too about “meeting”. So.. twice, you deliberately and in a premeditated manner, lied. And you refuse to take responsibility for yourself. And I called it right away.
You are soooooo devoted to church and bible. But to excuse yourself for breaking the “thou shalt not lie” commandment by somehow blaming JR for your lies, well.. heheh HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Thanks for showing the selective nature of your devotion to the bible.
Doctrine for thee, but not for me, indeed.
And you wonder why I scorn chritianity?
And JR? I have NO desire to work out anything with XXX. I havent since he refused my olive branch on the thread about Tiahrt’s son’s suicide. I still dont agree with him about that either, but I sent him an email trying to patch things up.
It didnt work any better than my FIRST apology here.
He can kiss my fat ugly ass.
Remind me JR, when did XXX ever defend you when Hank and Nathan were on your ass about your son?
Rage
Posted December 20, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Permalink
X, however offended you were with what KFG was saying, she was not attacking you personally, and starting the thread with insults was not a good way to deal with it.
__________________________________________________
Rage, I have no beef with you unless you want one. Since you have no faith, I don’t expect you to understand. But an attack on a Christian’s faith IS PERSONAL whether you like it or not. KFC has some kind of right to her belief, but I don’t rate that same consideration? Way to chose sides. So much for you being some kind of “fair and impartial”.
A Christian’s belief goes to the very core of his existence. KFG attacks that faith at every turn and opportunity.
I see now that as a Christian, Liberals don’t extend me the same respect for my position that they give to KFC. I have supported Liberals generally since this blog started, not because I’m a Democrat (I’m not), but because I detested what Bushco did to our country. I’m starting to think my support of Liberals might be misplaced.
Yes XXX, it is easy to be turned against isn’t it?
The more divisive this argument is, the more people will dig there heels in to the ground and won’t budge.
It’s rather pointless imo.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm | Permalink
Remind me JR, when did XXX ever defend you when Hank and Nathan were on your ass about your son?
————–
Where were you when they were saying vulgar things about my sister who doesn’t even blog here?
These are your people kfg and they talk like gutter trash.
Let’s not bring up every past deed - you know like anyone is innocent on this blog. Pointless.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
Is there some part of this you dont understand?
_________________________________________________
I understand perfectly.
You said I was on “Ignore”. You don’t seem to be able to do that, huh? Obviously I’m not on “Ignore”, so you’re a liar. Gotta have that last word, don’t you?
And right after your so-called apology, you stated that you remembered that I said I voted for the hate amendment. so much for your apology.
And just for the record, I voted against the “hate amendment” to support YOU, whom I considered a friend.
Boy, was I ever mistaken.
You’re a mean-spirited vitriolic bi*ch.
And a liar
and a hypocrite
That’s right, I said it
lot of bridges being burned…
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm | Permalink
Remind me JR, when did XXX ever defend you when Hank and Nathan were on your ass about your son?
__________________________________________________
I don’t recall the incident. Sometimes I go a week at a time without checking the blog. I almost never read everything.
But since you can’t win the discussion without lying or conniving, see how many other posters you can turn against me.
Nice try.
Next.
kfg,
You said “the thou shalt not lie commandment”. Please bring that to me to read, give me which one it is so I can find and study and learn please.
I never said you issued an invitation to meet, I said you were basically being your obnoxious self again in encouraging him along. And I simply let him go his own way, feeling no obligation on my part to show up in a parking lot for no good reason, except as an exercise in immaturity.
STILL going on?
Bawks remains either a punk or a liar.
Outside of that, lots of hurtful words that I don’t want to encourage from either of two people I consider friends.
SO?
Here’s what I’M gonna do.
Allowing that someone may be posting while I’m writing. Anything ahead of this does not count.
There is wrong and hurt feelings on both sides. I think sufficient blood has been shed today.
The next one of you two who takes a swing?
I’m taking the other’s side.
It stops. Now. Or cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.
I’d much rather humiliate bawks some more.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
And JR? I have NO desire to work out anything with XXX. I havent since he refused my olive branch on the thread about Tiahrt’s son’s suicide. I still dont agree with him about that either, but I sent him an email trying to patch things up.
________________________________________________
And yet ANOTHER LIE….
The hit just keep on keepin on.
Next.
It didnt work any better than my FIRST apology here.
He can kiss my fat ugly ass.
“It didnt work any better than my FIRST apology here.
He can kiss my fat ugly ass.”
__________________________________________________
Break out MapQuest. That’s gonna cover a LOT of acreage.
It was within 5 minutes.
So I’m gonna allow that X was typing that before he saw mine.
It stops.
Now.
” I think sufficient blood has been shed today. The next one of you two who takes a swing?
I’m taking the other’s side.”
Hey BlueJay….what about me(???)….how about an olive branch for me too?
I’ll try and be good if you will….same goes for kfg. I won’t compromise my beliefs or principals, but maybe we can be more civil in our discourse, or just try and ignore to a degree.
Ha, what say you…..I am waiting with baited breath, as well as a few others maybe.
Heheheh. So… bigotbawks wants to nit pick the ten commandments?
Ok, it technically says not to bear false witness. Which is what you did. Go ahead. Tell me how that commandment is not an admonition against lying. Or how you can justify lying on purpose to both of us. You know cons, one example is too much and a hundred is not enough. Remind me again which church condones lying? Are you saying lying is ok if it is used to teach an imaginary lesson? Please, let us know which church excuses that.
And I notice that if I dont reply to XXX he, challenges me to put up or shut up. Kinda hard to do that if I dont reply. And if I do reply then I am lying about ignoring him and I’m insisting on the last word. Typical nitwit con. He’s not a liberal. He just supports a few liberal issues when it suits him. I dont have any problem with that, hell, I support a few con issues too. But then he expects the liberals to side with him? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
I said IF I was wrong, I apologize. But as this has gone on with his comments here, it’s kinda hard to imagine him voting against the hate amendment. I still dont necessarily believe it, but I WAS giving him the benefit of the doubt. I said he was a hypocrite, but generally not a liar. I may have been wrong about that too. No matter. I apologized THREE times IF I was wrong. Like I said, he wants an ass kissing and it isnt going to happen. My apology IF I was wrong wasnt good enough. WTF does he want to hear?
Given his comments here? I dont think I need to apologize anymore. Obviously, NO ONE may disagree with the great and wonderful XXX. Not even Rage, who isnt known for intervening in arguemnts very often. No criticism of XXX is allowed. By anyone. There is and was not any bridge between XXX and I to burn. My opinion of him is just as low as his opinion of me. Lower, probably.
And Reg? My comments were specific to JR. If you want to pick a fight with me, knock yourself out. I’m not attacking you, and I’m not asking you to defend me. I havent asked anyone to defend me or my views, although some have. But it wasnt at my request. I’m just reminding JR who has defended him against the Prices, and who has not.
SO go ahead XXX. Have the last word. I wont reply again. With every post, you are affirming the bigotry I accused you of in the first place. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
kfg,
You said “the thou shalt not lie commandment”. Please bring that to me to read, give me which one it is so I can find and study and learn please.
I am anxiously waiting for some guidance, some response.
Give me which commandment you are referring too please, like a number.
If not I can only assume you know NOT of which you speak and so will everyone else.
And I typed mine before I saw yours too JR.
Nice try XXX, but others were CC’d on that email I sent after the Tiahrt suicide thread. When your memory is faulty, I’m a liar. When my memory was, according to you and Rage, faulty, I apologized.
He’s all yours JR.
The numbers vary among denominations bigotbawks.
Are you saying lying is condoned?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
One’s too many and a hundred’s not enough.
Heheheeh. HAHAHAAH. Let’s see how big a man you are XXX. Remember your reply to me about my email?
You told me about your friend’s kid’s suicide and finding him in, shall we say, a compromising position after an autoerotic incident gone wrong.
Now how would I know that if you hadnt emailed me and used that as your excuse for hammering me on the Tiahrt thread.
Let’s see if YOU are big enough to apologize for calling me a liar.
I believe you when you say you did not vote for the hate amendment X.
Do please remember that kfg takes a LOT of heat. And yeah she asks for it. But it is just her sort of righteous indignation that has gained us an awful LOT of social progress in this country. And a great deal of it just in my short lifetime.
I myself TRY not to hit people about their faith.
I DO try.
But take a look way upthread. Some one else of faith took a shot calculated for nothing but to inflict pain.
That same person did not have the guts to stand toe to toe with me and tell me just how it is that his hurting others elevates him or his faith. But see? That’s my friend farmgrrls life every single day.
Now I don’t want to stifle discussion. And everyone KNOWS I LOVE a good fight.
Bang away. But not at each other.
I know X is not a person who uses his faith to hurt people.
I know that farmgrrl knows that not all Christians are bad people.
kfg, I don’t condone lying, but neither do I object or even find fault with allowing the maker of a foolish challenge to learn a lesson from his own actions. You could say I was doing him a favor in maturity development, ha.
There is a big difference between that and bearing false witness against someone.
Wow!!!! Doorbell just rang. Grandkids are here!
Got’a run, in for some fun…..and lots of tiring activities.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Keep rationalizing. Of course it’s JR’s fault that you deliberately lied.
Remind us, which church allows that?
I see now that as a Christian, Liberals don’t extend me the same respect for my position that they give to KFC.
______________________________________________
Obviously, NO ONE may disagree with the great and wonderful XXX. Not even Rage, who isnt known for intervening in arguemnts very often.
___________________________________________
Well, I see I managed to piss both of them off.
My work here is done.
“Hey BlueJay….what about me(???)….how about an olive branch for me too?”
No.
Because you want me to give you a pass and let you off the hook. Not gonna happen. You ARE a bad Christian and a mean person. You don’t care about your faith except using it to bully other people.
WTF? You didnt piss me off. I even said thank you. And I know you dont condone my posts.
My point was, you are generally a fair broker, and he’s even pissed at you for criticizing him.
I’m not pissed at you. I dont always agree with you, but I ALWAYS respect you.
I’m not pissed at you. I dont always agree with you, but I ALWAYS respect you.
Thank you, too.
And just to avoid confusion, my last post was directed at Rage.
JR, just because you and I are friends and you and XXX are friends, doesnt mean he and I have to be friends. I loath him. I have held back at times if we are supporting the same issue, but make no mistake. I have loathed him since the Tiahrt thread when he made his smart ass reply to my email.
I still loath him. He’s showing his true colors today.
I don’t hit at people who are otherwise occupied. I typed mine before the “doorbell rang”.
IF it did.
“You told me about your friend’s kid’s suicide and finding him in, shall we say, a compromising position after an autoerotic incident gone wrong.”
I remember that.
Now that’s enough. I don’t expect either of you to forget this anytime soon.
I know ya both too well.
Me? I’m not gonna go back and count swings or who owes who an apology.
Time heals.
“the Tiahrt thread ”
Or, as I call it, the non con civil civil war.
Newer readers and posters will not understand the reference.
One of the MOST posted threads in blog history where the cons watched on and offered running comment while more progressive folks tore each other apart in DAYS of bloody fighting.
We got over that.
This too shall pass.
OMG, I just re-read one of XXX’s posts, and I am ROFLMAO.
Sorry JR, I dont care if this pisses you off or not. This is just TOOO fucking funny.
Wanna know what a liar XXX is? Yeah. I said it.
The vote on the hate amendment was in April of 05. Look it up. I’ll never forget it.
I think the blog started in the summer of 06. Is that correct? Like, May or June of 06?
I didnt make my first post until about a week before my Mom died, which was January 31, 2006, right after bush’s State of the Union Address. I’ll never forget that either.
So… That would make this part of XXX’s 2:28 post a…
FLAT FUCKING LIE!!!!!!!
The blog didnt even EXIST when the hate amendment vote was held. I wasnt even POSTING until after the hate amendment vote.
I’ll be waiting for his highness, the royal XXX to apologize. And ADMIT he’s a liar.
And if he lied about that? And given his comments here?
What do YOU think about his hate amendment vote?
I may be fat and ugly and loath christians, but my memory is still pretty damn good.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAH!
The blog started in June of 05.
kfg’s first post was on Jan. 5, 2006, I think.
BlueJay
Posted December 20, 2008 at 3:01 pm | Permalink
STILL going on?
Bawks remains either a punk or a liar.
Outside of that, lots of hurtful words that I don’t want to encourage from either of two people I consider friends.
SO?
Here’s what I’M gonna do.
Allowing that someone may be posting while I’m writing. Anything ahead of this does not count.
There is wrong and hurt feelings on both sides. I think sufficient blood has been shed today.
The next one of you two who takes a swing?
I’m taking the other’s side.
________________________________________________
Well, I see how that works.
Heheheh. Sorry, another word press copy problem
“And just for the record, I voted against the “hate amendment” to support YOU, whom I considered a friend.”
That was the lie XXX told. He didnt even know me, and the blog didnt even exist when the hate amendment vote was taken.
Still wanna trust HIS memory of events?
Wanna admit your lie XXX? You didnt even know me when the hate amendment vote was taken.
Let’s just see what a big man you are.
I think that in the heat of battle, memories can fail.
And I will NOT choose a side. I take it back.
I’m just laughing my fat fucking queer ass off.
I laughed so hard I scared the dog!
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!
heheheheheheheh
“Well, I see how that works.”
Now who’s the big bad cry baby?
So when my memory “failed” that XXX SAID he voted against the hate amendement, I was a liar. And a cry baby. With a BIG ass acreage to cover.
When his memory “fails”? It’s just a mistake?
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
I’m going to go watch Daniel Boone.
I’ll come back and read XXX’s apology later.
Yeah. Right. That’s the ticket.
““And just for the record, I voted against the “hate amendment” to support YOU, whom I considered a friend.””
That DOES seem at odds with the date of the vote.
But there is still the matter of accusing X of voting for the hate amendment without proof.
You two will have to figure out where one or both of you is confused. My head hurts.
I’m not confused JR. IF he really voted against the hate amendment? It didnt have a goddam thing to do with me because the blog didnt even EXIST when that vote was taken.
Dammit. Daniel Boone isnt on, even though the guide says it is.
Oh well, I’ll be waiting for the apology that never comes.
Damn near 500 posts, and most filled with hate. And the basic problem is a very small segment of the nation cares about gay marriage, or whether Warren says the invocation or not (Rev. Joseph Lowery, a well respected civil rights leaderwill give the Benediction). There’s just too many other things way more important, like the economy, the war, jobs, etc.. But people seem to want to compartmentalize Obama already because they don’t like one of his choices for the inauguration. To me, that smacks of very limited thinking. And that’s all I got to say on this subject.
And Jesus broke the bread and lo, there were 40 loaths.
It seems clear that X did not cast his vote for the hate amendment based on his friendship with kfg.
I’m allowing that kfg has the date of the vote correct. I’m sure she does.
X says he did not vote for the hate amendment. I believe him.
And as to Warren? I STILL like my idea. The choice IS controversial to no small segment of folks who voted for Obama. They have a right to notify the President elect of that.
And now if you will excuse me, I’m gonna go play with a live grenade.
That’s your opinion Walker, and of course, you are welcome to it.
It’s such an insignificant thing, that we’ve had THREE threads and a couple of opens with a huge number of posts.
And it’s been one of the lead stories on the national news for several days.
And it’s not an isolated incident. Mcclurkin? Caldwell? As Agnatha noted, it isnt just this. It’s a pattern.
It may be insignificant to you, and that’s ok. I’m not going to flame you anymore than I did Linda.
But the evidence is clear, that even if it doesnt matter to you, it matters DEEPLY to lots of people.
Please show me a link where in any of the Gay Marriage propositions in any state use the word Hate.
Not a hate ammendment. You are a liar.
It’s not Hate because YOU say it’s hate.
What’s your new word of the day again?
TOT-ology (yes I know how to spell it beotch, I’m calling you a child).
“Voters make Kansas 18th state with marriage amendment
By Robert Marus
Wednesday, 06 April 2005
WASHINGTON (ABP) — Kansas voters made that state the 18th in the nation to adopt a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage April 5.”
hehehe. HAHAHAHHA
kia just never gets tired of having his ass kicked.
Sorry buddy, I’m just too tired from laughing my ass off to take up with you whether it’s a hateful amendment or not. Whatever dude. Give your bruised and bloody ass a rest.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
GOOD Someone I WANNA hit.
Yeah they call it “the protection of marriage” act.
But if they really wanted to protect marriage? Why start by outlawing it for a small group of people?
There’s that con logic again. Like “right to work” state and “clear skies initiative”.
hee hee hee heeeeee….
I just cant stop laughing.
My ass kicked? More TOT-lology.
How’s your significant other by the way?
You must be a freaking dream to live with.
You are such a viral beotch I don’t think you are as pissed about not being allowed to get married as you are that no one would.
…and the Clean Water Act that permitted MORE chemicals in our drinking water.
HEHEHEHEHEHHE.
Oh geez, you just cant make this shit up.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA
Have another drink kia. It’s solstice.
Happy pagan holiday! Ramen!
Sigh. . . .
Enjoy your grenade, Jay.
I’m gonna go munch on some plutonium.
BlueJay
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:19 pm | Permalink
—————————————————-
Just like a retard.
Brings a fist to a gun fight.
I’m off to work.
Night kids. Enjoy the sandbox. Consider me your kitty coming to shit in it. LOL HAHAHAHAHA
Yeah kia. Posters here have met my lovely woman, and seen us together. They dont doubt that we would like to marry.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH…
Happy solstice. Have another drink.
Oh, and tautology occurs when the conclusion equals the premise.
But then, you’re such a smart guy and all, you knew that.
Like the bible is true because the bible says it’s true.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH..
Ramen!
Kia, I note again that you’ve taken a sane, fair and humane position, mainly getting government out of the marriage business.
I hope you haven’t abandoned it because of all this.
hee hee hee heeeeee….
I havent had this much fun since, well, hell. I dont know when.
Rage, with all due respect, ’cause ya know I love and respect you, kia wants government out of marriage, because….
…he wants it to be under the control of the church.
Dont believe me? Scroll up and read his stuff from yesterday. He’s afraid if the government is involved, his church will be FORCED to marry gay people.
That is why he wants government out of marriage. At first I thought he meant what you think he means.
Read his stuff from yesterday. You’ll see.
I’m sure you haven’t. How often do you find those to agree with you and your crap in this your home state? LOLLLOLOL.
My impression of FG AND BJ in the Weblog sandbox:
Let’s make our Wedding Cake.
Here’s the flour (its really sand)
Here’s the icing (its really water)
This stick is the bride. This stick is the other bride.
Hey, that Kia is a poo poo isn’t he?
Yea..teeheehee He’s a caca poo poo.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Where is fleetie’s plaque store again?
Oh, I know I’m being a totally obnoxious bitch.
But damn, ya gotta love when someone is just out and out busted.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I gotta admit, I’m glad Daniel Boone isnt on. I’da missed ALL this fun, including kia’s poo poo.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAH!
That is why he wants government out of marriage.
If it accomplishes the objective, I don’t care if he thinks space aliens from the courthouse are trying to infiltrate the clergy.
I mean, really.
“…he wants it to be under the control of the church”
I guess you missed that part?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
OMG, I just re-read one of XXX’s posts, and I am ROFLMAO.
Sorry JR, I dont care if this pisses you off or not. This is just TOOO fucking funny.
Wanna know what a liar XXX is? Yeah. I said it.
The vote on the hate amendment was in April of 05. Look it up. I’ll never forget it.
I think the blog started in the summer of 06. Is that correct? Like, May or June of 06?
_________________________________________________
Wrong again, liar. Check the archives. they go back to 2005. And the archives don’t go back to the beginning.
_________________________________________________
I didnt make my first post until about a week before my Mom died, which was January 31, 2006, right after bush’s State of the Union Address. I’ll never forget that either.
________________________________________________
Prove it. You’re lying again.
So… That would make this part of XXX’s 2:28 post a…
FLAT FUCKING LIE!!!!!!!
The blog didnt even EXIST when the hate amendment vote was held. I wasnt even POSTING until after the hate amendment vote.
________________________________________________
More lies
“…he wants it to be under the control of the church” </i?
I guess you missed that part?
No, I just understood it.
The churches do marriage. The government does contracts, no sex discrimination. One form.
He’s agreed to that more than once, not out of any great affinity with homosexual people, but simply as a practical solution..
or was there something else I missed?
“Kia, I note again that you’ve taken a sane, fair and humane position, mainly getting government out of the marriage business.”
Actually, I strongly disagree with you on this Rage. Marriage has been a civil institution, and withdrawing legal recognition of marriages (which is what government does) would create a ton of headaches when it comes to issues of inheritance, child custody, household income, etc. Try being widowed, and dealing with the death of your spouse. It is hard enough when the law recognizes your union and provides guidance. I have had some long discussions with people who had to deal with this without having a legally recognized marriage.
Government recognition and regulation, contrary to the mytholigies of reflexive libertarians, often simplifies our lives rather than complicates them.
The problems arise when a marriage is not legally recognized, and the partners have to deal with every single issue on their own. Those who talk about distinctions between civil unions and marriages, or who falsely believe that marriage is first and foremost a religious institution, truly are missing the point here.
Withdrawing legal recognition of marriage?
Has everyone gone insane today?
I didn’t even hint at that!
Tell me WHEN in 2005? June. Why dont you email Phillip and find out. Come back Monday when he answers you. Even JR agrees it was June of 2005.
And the hate amendment vote was in…APRIL of 2005.
Hee hee hee heeeee….
You’ll do anything not to admit you are wrong.
Seems like I’ve been right with my memory about two out of three of these things.
And you cant prove number three, and neither can I, since you are alone in the voting booth.
I think Aggie misses the premise.
People no longer get married. This would be a pain in the arse but you basically go down to the courthouse on Monday’s and Wednesday’s, state some formal intentions, sign some legal documents.
Blam, in the Governments eyes you are Husband and Husband. Husband and Wife. Wife and Wife.
A marriage would be a ceremony performed by a Religious instituition with no Civil Legal recognition.
I’m sure there would be churches that would marry gay couples as well. That is there business.
This for some reason continue to draw the wrath of FG though it is the quickest way through the fight for Civil Rights, if that is what she REALLY wants.
Rage, do you remember when my first post was?
Look: It’s completely simple.
You get married at whatever church you choose, or at the courthouse, or by Elvis. It’s doesn’t matter. Nor does the sex of the participants matter. It’s your business.
When you go to the courthouse, straight and gay couples both get a civil union. A “marriage” becomes something a church does. It will be recognized by the state, consistent with religious freedom, whether your preacher is a Baptist minister, a Unitarian minister, or a judge.
It would maintain legal recognition of marriage, while making discimination impossible. The same form. The same rights. No distinction.
Rage, do you remember when my first post was?
Jan ‘06, not sure on the date.
Thank you. That confirms what I said.
Do you remember when the blog began?
June, 2005 perhaps?
Agnatha, I realize you probably didn’t see my subsequent post before you responded.
But that’s what you get for jumping to conclusions! ;-)
KFG, if your premise is that XXX lied about his 2005 vote in 2006, my question is. . .why?
I didn’t show up until November, but Jay was there from the beginning, as was XXX. I think Jay would know if he ever expressed support for the amendment.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
The vote on the hate amendment was in April of 05. Look it up. I’ll never forget it.
_________________________________________________
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/Marriage50/kansas.cfm
The election for the Kansas Hate Amendment was April 5, 2005.
The blog began in June 2005. As JAY and I both noted. Of course the WE wont be able to confirm that until Monday.
I didnt make my first post until January, 2006.
XXX did NOT base his vote on the hate amendment on me. No way. Not possible.
He wants to make a big deal about me being misaken or a liar?
I’d appreciate him just manning up and admitting that at best, his memory around the hate amendment is faulty, and at worse, he lied when he said he based his vote on knowing me.
I’m sick and fucking tired of what’s good for the goose NOT being good for the gander.
And if he was, ahem, mistaken about WHY he says he voted the way he did, it is possible, POSSIBLE that he’s not, ahem, remembering other things correctly about his vote.
Wanna jump my ass? AFTER I apologized IF I was wrong?
I’ll be waiting for your apology XXX.
But it will never come. You arent man enough.
And XXX, if your link is about Roberts and Brownback and their votes?
They dont VOTE on the state hate amendment, and the FEDERAL hate amendment has never passed. YOU didnt vote on any federal hate amendment.
As far as an apology?
Crickets chirping from you.
I’m not taking this shit anymore.
Jesus wept. Dont call ME a fucking liar when you cant man up to your own “mistakes”.
#
BlueJay
Posted December 20, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Permalink
The blog started in June of 05.
kfg’s first post was on Jan. 5, 2006, I think.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:16 pm | Permalink
“Voters make Kansas 18th state with marriage amendment
By Robert Marus
Wednesday, 06 April 2005
WASHINGTON (ABP) — Kansas voters made that state the 18th in the nation to adopt a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage April 5.”
How much more proof do you need, XXX before you man up and apologize, not only for lying about why you say you voted, but for calling me a liar, multiple times, in your 4:44 post?
Coward.
“I’m sick and fucking tired of what’s good for the goose NOT being good for the gander.”
Or as we say to bigotbawks…
“bawk bawk bawk”
I found kfg’s first post once.
I went looking for it because I wasn’t posting when she joined us. I was helping my mom take care of my dad.
Best I can determine is her first post was Jan 05 2006. I think I posted that as blog trivia once.
The blog did begin in mid to late June 2005 but was not posted much until late July or early August.
I’m not posting this to support anyone’s argument one way or the other. It is just my memory.
“I think Jay would know if he ever expressed support for the amendment.”
I don’t remember him mentioning that he DIDN’T support it.
I don’t know that it came up.
Gotta remember. The VERY early days of the blog, it was largely in con hands.
I remember when Damoon was the ONLY female poster we had.
I’m sorry to drag both you, JR, and Rage into this.
But if that asswipe XXX thinks he can call me a liar, when the FACTS are on my side, he can kiss my fat, large acreage, ugly ass.
I apologized, three times, IF I was wrong.
XXX when PROVEN wrong?
Crickets chirping.
He’ll deny until he dies, or he’ll never come back. But in any event, he’s not man enough to admit when he is wrong.
Baiting? Maybe. I call it naming a spade a bloody fucking shovel.
If he hadnt called me a liar, I wouldnt be making a big deal of this. But since he did, and HE’s the one wrong on some important details, I’m calling him out for being the chicken shit he is.
While I’m waiting for XXX, here’s a great editorial about civil unions.
Separate and Not Equal
Published: December 20, 2008
Civil unions are an inadequate substitute for marriage. Creating a separate, new legal structure to confer some benefits on same-sex couples neither honors American ideals of fairness, nor does it grant true equality. The results are clearly visible in New Jersey, which continues to deny same-sex couples some of the tangible civil benefits that come with marriage.
Gov. Jon Corzine of New Jersey has long said that he would sign a measure granting the right to marry to couples of the same sex. We are heartened that he has declared that that should happen sooner rather than later.
We hope Mr. Corzine intends to prod legislators into passing such a law early in the 2009 session. That would make New Jersey the first state to legalize marriage for same-sex couples through legislative action. Three other states — Connecticut, Massachusetts and California — have done so through the courts. Unfortunately, California voters approved a ballot measure in November rescinding that right, at least for now.
Mr. Corzine made his statement after a state commission released its final report on New Jersey’s two-year-old civil union law. The commission noted the hurt and stigma inflicted by shutting out gay people from the institution of marriage. It also found that civil unions do not assure gay couples of the same protections, including the right to collect benefits under a partner’s health insurance program and to make medical decisions on behalf of a partner who is unable to do so. The panel concluded unanimously that the state should enact a law to remove the inequities.
We regret that the leaders of the state’s Democratic-controlled Legislature do not view this issue with the same urgency. Senate President Richard Codey, for instance, said recently that progress in civil rights areas “is typically achieved in incremental steps.” We suspect that political expedience is clouding Mr. Codey’s sense of fairness. Next year in New Jersey, the governorship and all seats in the Assembly are up for grabs in an election. Some Republicans already are talking about making their opposition to same-sex marriage a campaign issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/opinion/20sat4.html?_...
KFG,
Check your email, please.
Well, since I dont imagine XXX will be back here anytime soon, and since bigotbawks also ran off with his tail between his legs…
I’m going to go have a nice mug of egg nog that one of my friends made especially for me. I’ll have a nice phone call with my sweetie telling her all about my day, and how much I adore her.
And I’ll reflect on how if you give evil enough rope, SOMETIMES it hangs itself.
Ummm… this egg nog is great. And it has a kick.
Ramen. And a happy winter solstice to you, JR. And to Rage and my other friends here. Even if you dont approve of me or my posts, I still care about you.
This has been a great day.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:14 pm | Permalink
That’s your opinion Walker, and of course, you are welcome to it.
It’s such an insignificant thing, that we’ve had THREE threads and a couple of opens with a huge number of posts.
And it’s been one of the lead stories on the national news for several days.
It may be insignificant to you, and that’s ok. I’m not going to flame you anymore than I did Linda.
But the evidence is clear, that even if it doesnt matter to you, it matters DEEPLY to lots of people.
====================================================
I never stated anywhere it was insignificant to me; I did say it mattered to a small percentage of people. In case you haven’t noticed, many threads are posted to get just such responses as we see in this one: big numbers=bragging rights.
News sells, hence, big stories=big bucks. Sorry if that sounds a bit sarcastic, but it’s the truth. If the gay community hadn’t protested in such an open way, would any major news organization have picked up on it? Only if there were nothing else out there. We both know it. If you don’t, then you’ve forgotten the old three day old fish stories. Life’s a bitch. Sometimes, the old Viet Nam saying, “it don’t mean nothing” means just what it says.
We’re cool Walker. You know I adore you, in the most platonic of ways, of course!
:)
“Look: It’s completely simple.
“You get married at whatever church you choose, or at the courthouse, or by Elvis. It’s doesn’t matter. Nor does the sex of the participants matter. It’s your business.
“When you go to the courthouse, straight and gay couples both get a civil union. A ‘marriage’ becomes something a church does.”
Why? Rage, marriage has historically been a civil institution in the US. Church marriages were rare in the United States until late in the 19th Century. That’s why the references to Justices o’ the Peace were so common early in our history. Let me be frank, it is silly to rename marriage a civil union and make marriage a religious institution when we already have unions recognized under the term “marriage” in the codes. There seems to be a prevailing myth around here that “marriage” is a religious term. It is not, at least not exclusively.
I think churches should be free to marry or not marry who they choose, but it seems needless and silly to me to needlessly redefine a perfectly good term that is already commonly used. Hell, why not call it “civil marriage”?
Actually, marriage bonds were required to filed with the county clerk with the permission of the father/or substitute, along with a fee, back in the day.
I’ve looked at thousands of early marriage bonds as it was the key in tracking down genealogical clues.
Most all required that groom be at least 21 years of age.
Having several ministers in my genealogical line, I was also able to track their whereabouts using court records of them presiding at a marriage ceremony.
Hell, why not call it “civil marriage”?
Why not “bondage.”
Hell, why not call it “civil marriage”?
They can call it “Ralph” for all I care. But a lot of people are using the “M” word as an excuse to deny these people their civil rights, based on this notion of “protecting marriage.”
The power in this nonsensical argument is the false implication that “marriage” is somehow being redefined for private churches. Private the word–so if you worship God or Allah or Bob or Bonzo the Sun God or no one at all–and that takes that dumb argument away.
excuse to deny these people their civil rights
=====================
As far as I can tell homos can:
Go to the same schools as normal people
Ride anywhere on a bus
Drink from any public water fountain
Eat at restaurants along side normal people.
Homos are NOT
Being hung from elevated places by their necks
Having their chrurches bombed/burned
Being hunted by people with pointy hates on a daily basis.
What a bunch of fukin whiners, homos have it easy.
ahh pointy HATES= HATS….damn eggnog.
I am not going to argue the, ‘is it right or wrong for homos to get married’ for hours/days on end, but to call it a ‘Civil Rights’ issue is absurd!
Sigh. . . .
Enjoy your grenade, Jay.
I’m gonna go munch on some plutonium. — Rage
—-
Which one of you two young gentlemen is willing to share with an old woman? Maybe I could bring glass slivers to share…
I am not going to argue the, ‘is it right or wrong for
homoswhites and blacks to get married’ for hours/days on end, but to call it a ‘Civil Rights’ issue is absurd!Still absurd?
Still absurd?
—————-
If different races were being denied the right to marry, that would be a violation of civil rights.
So no, it is not absurd.
f different races were being denied the right to marry, that would be a violation of civil rights.
So no, it is not absurd.
But, if they of different sexes, it is?
On what rational basis does the state have the right to intervene?
Why couldn’t the state ban heterosexual marriage?
#
Rage
Posted December 20, 2008 at 8:41 pm | Permalink
Why couldn’t the state ban heterosexual marriage?
===================
That wouldn’t happen.
So there is no point in discussing an impossibility.
On what rational basis does the state have the right to intervene?
—————————
The state doesn’t have to intervene, gays can’t get married in Kansas. So, the state doesn’t have to do anything.
That wouldn’t happen.
Don’t be so sure. If you give that kind of arbitrary power to government, there’s no telling what kind of nutty legislation might result.
The lack of any rational basis applies in both instances. People may disapprove of such persons existing, but on what basis are they to interfere with a loving relationship between consenting adults?
The state doesn’t have to intervene, gays can’t get married in Kansas.
Uh, right. What you just said was “the state doesn’t have to intervene, because the state is already intervening.” Geez.
This is pointless.
but on what basis are they to interfere with a loving relationship between consenting adults?
————
Didn’t know they had to be married to enjoy that.
I have enjoyed loving relationships without being married. Why can’t homos?
Rage
Posted December 20, 2008 at 8:49 pm | Permalink
The state doesn’t have to intervene, gays can’t get married in Kansas.
Uh, right. What you just said was “the state doesn’t have to intervene, because the state is already intervening.” Geez.
===================
Actually it is the homos that are trying to ‘intervene’ the state.
Look Rage,
I don’t care if homos get married. It doesn’t harm or make me ‘afraid’ as the libs like to say. I just don’t think it is a ‘Civil Right’.
I have enjoyed loving relationships without being married. Why can’t homos?
You’re avoiding the question.
The only distinction between these couples I can see is their sexes don’t match our expectations.
For years, it was considered “miscegenation” for couples when their skin color didn’t match our expectations.
When the government singles out certain people and says “no!” to them, the burden is entirely on government to demostrate why.
Can you not at agree to that?
The implications are pretty scary, going far beyond the immediate issue, if you can’t.
You’re avoiding the question.
—————
What question did I avoid when I stated:
Look Rage,
I don’t care if homos get married. It doesn’t harm or make me ‘afraid’ as the libs like to say. I just don’t think it is a ‘Civil Right’.
————————-
If it was up to me, marriage would be only between me, my wife, and God- NO government.
And to each his/her own as long as it didn’t harm someone else or their property.
As far as FINANCIAL benefits, which is what we are REALLY talking about here-
Draw up a legal contract with your ‘loved one’.
Curious. Then why is it a violation of civil rights to deny marriage to mixed-race couples? Why should it matter?
Is that so bad Rage? Just take the gov. out of marriage and have legal financial contracts between ‘partners’.
Then why is it a violation of civil rights to deny marriage to mixed-race couples? Why should it matter?
—————-
Because every established religion and culture on this planet has defined marriage as between a man and a woman(+). (Remember, I would like to take marriage out of Gov. hands)
Race shouldn’t matter.
Because every established religion. . .
Bingo. And similar religious establishments railed against mixed marriages 40 years ago. Look it up.
Government has no business limiting contracts based on someone else’s religious doctrine.
That’s a civil rights issue.
If you want to take marriage out of government’s hands, you might want to convince married couples of this first (see Agnatha’s post above).
Rage
Posted December 20, 2008 at 9:14 pm | Permalink
Because every established religion. . .
Bingo.
——————
And it is strictly financial for homos.
“And it is strictly financial for homos.”—ANTI
YEP!
And it is strictly financial for homos.
But not for other couples? ~:-|
How’s that? (Not true in any instance, by the way, but still. . .)
You keep singling out these people in ways that make no sense.
Forgive an atheist observation.
How is homosexuality a sin?
I mean,anymore than those other things in the old testament that Jesus’s crucifixion supposedly washed away?
The way I get it, people can do whatever they want their live long life and as long as they embrace Jesus as their personal savior that second before they wink out, they’re covered, absolved, forgiven etc.
I mean, that is how a lot of cons live. They are rotten people and do all sorts of sin I GUESS figuring they are covered.
The cons have made that a 25 year movement.
BAD CHOICE OBAMA.
NOW THE GAY CHICKENS ARE ACOMIN’ HOME TO ROOST.
It would seem to me….
If everyone is saved if they PERSONALLY accept Jesus Christ as their savior…
that ANY Earthly behavior has no relevance.
I mean, if you are gonna tell me that Dennis Rader (BTK) gets to go to Heaven, no penalty, if he accepts Jesus?
So, what is the point in making laws based on morality as dictated (supposedly) by God?
It’s all forgiven anyway.
#
Rage
Posted December 20, 2008 at 9:17 pm | Permalink
If you want to take marriage out of government’s hands, you might want to convince married couples of this first (see Agnatha’s post above).
——————
I don’t need to convince others of what I believe. I have two feet and I stand on them everyday, regardless of what others think of me.
You are fishing in the wrong pond.
I don’t think marriage should have anything to do with Gov. as I have stated above. I don’t care if homos get married.
I don’t think marriage should have anything to do with Gov. as I have stated above. I don’t care if homos get married.
Fine. But, as long as government is still involved, I will continue to insist that gay couples get their own civil rights under the law.
It’s that simple.
This topic just goes on and on ad nauseam.
Why not simply tune out the small percentage that is making all the noise and causing all the trouble.
Ignore it, and leave it as it’s been for several millenia.
Fine. But, as long as government is still involved, I will continue to insist that gay couples get their own civil rights under the law.
——————–
And that is your right, which I respect.
I do respect many people that I do not agree with.
Homosexual unions are queer, and I don’t mean that so much derogatorily as I do traditionally.
We don’t need to change society just because a group decides that is what it wants.
Let them work out their legal entanglements with legal instruments like trusts, power of attorney etc. Heck, I’m and my wife are in a traditional marriage and we still felt the need to do that.
As ANTI, I believe, said above, this is all about the money, survivor benefits (which we need not afford), etc., and to bring a sense of legitimacy to their illegitimate relations.
For example Rage (a poor one at that)
Ted Nugent-
I respect the hell out of him on some of his views.
I can’t stand the fact that he hates drug addicts when he himself was/is addicted to sex and ego.
I also do not think I could stand to be around the guy for more than five minutes with out taking a swing, even though on politics/outdoors/conservation/guns/hunting we agree 100%.
Oh, and being polite about it has simply encouraged them to make all the more noise and trouble.
It’s time to quit entertaining the gay community and ignore them and their demands.
“Ignore it, and leave it as it’s been for several millenia.”
Ah that old refrain.
“That’s just the way it is.”
Responsible for SO much pain and oppression through the ages. ONLY defeated at great cost through everything from protest to war.
How about a different idea?
If someone does something that you do not like and it does not hurt you? Leave it alone.
If someone does something that you do not like and it does not hurt you? Leave it alone.
That’s exactly what I’m saying BlueJay….leave it alone.
There are other remedies that work just fine without upsetting the majority of the world by redefining marriage into something most people think is repulsive.
“That’s exactly what I’m saying BlueJay….leave it alone.”
No it isn’t.
People are hurt and feel discriminated against. YOU use force of law to make it so and take personal pleasure in it.
These last few years, the laws you champion to “protect marriage” do no such thing. Witness the fall of the “traditional” family.
They just marginalize people who you do not like.
Whatever BlueJay….whatever.
I, and most folks, will continue to defend the traditional meaning of marriage, the ONLY meaning of marriage.
You do as you please. Hang your hat wherever you like, mine will stay with the good folks.
Oh, and by the way BlueJay, here is where you seem to want to hang your hat, with this upstanding moral person.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 5:16 pm | Permalink
Jesus wept. Dont call ME a fucking liar when you cant man up to your own “mistakes”.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 5:22 pm | Permalink
I’m sick and fucking tired of what’s good for the goose NOT being good for the gander.”
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 5:12 pm | Permalink
I’m sick and fucking tired of what’s good for the goose NOT being good for the gander.
Wanna jump my ass? AFTER I apologized IF I was wrong?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:00 pm | Permalink
I’m just laughing my fat fucking queer ass off.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
“FLAT FUCKING LIE!!!!!!!”
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:22 pm | Permalink
“Oh geez, you just cant make this shit up.”
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:18 pm | Permalink
kia just never gets tired of having his ass kicked.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 4:04 pm | Permalink
It didnt have a goddam thing to do with me
Well, maybe it is just me there Bawks.
You want to protect marriage?
My son is about the fifth generation proof that marriage does not work.
If there are people, gay OR straight who WANT to be married and take care of kids?
Ya better let them.
IF marriage is what you really care about.
“What a bunch of fukin whiners, homos have it easy.”
Re: ANTI
DNFTT
Come on guys, this is pure childish “notice me!” stuff.
Agnatha,
You must have missed KFG’s post….for years.
“There are other remedies that work just fine without upsetting the majority of the world by redefining marriage into something most people think is repulsive.”
As has been pointed out before, there is no qualitative difference between this argument as applied to same gender marriage and as it is applied to interracial marriage.
Here is a made up “right”, the “right” not to be offended.
Oh man, I see the fun never ends.
Bigotbawks hangs his hat with the good folks. Presumably church folks.
You know, like btk, the lutheran minister who killed his wife along the road. The priests who molest children, etc. etc. etc.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
yeah… the good folks indeed.
But of course, he is an unrepentant and deliberate liar who ran off when that was noted.
Repeatedly.
HIS sins are JR’s fault.
The good folks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Let’s see, on one hand, we have a christian who lies and then denies an admonition against lying is not part of the bible or the ten commandments and has yet to tell us which church condones that. He hangs his hat with the likes of btk and REAL child molesters.
On the other hand? You have a dyke that swears.
Moral high ground. hehehehehehehhehehehe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
Like I said, you cant make this shit up.
And in the third corner, a known troll who’s an idiot.
Let’s see, who could we get to fill corner number four?
Gotta be JR. An entrepreneur who makes his own way and raises a fine son all on his own. Oh, and he also takes great care of his wonderful Mom. All of which makes him the punching bag for cons.
Yep. That about rounds out the fight card.
KFG,
At some point we need to agree to talk about chickens and cooking ONLY, to break our agreement. If you do not wish this peaceful ‘derangement’, that is fine.
ANTI
HAHAHAHAHAH
Bigotbawks and anti believe this:
“As ANTI, I believe, said above, this is all about the money, survivor benefits (which we need not afford), etc.”
But they STILL wouldnt give up the other benefits of civil marriage. Like… social security, filing taxes jointly, etc. All the things their marriages give them but we dont have.
Doctrine for thee, but not for me say the hypocrits.
And also, a share of the public treasury for their marriages, but not ours.
The hypocrisy would be funny if it wasnt so pathetic.
Since you all dont NEED those benefits of marriage, give them up. ‘Kay?
Cause ya know, the taxpayers cant afford to carry you and your children anymore.
Bigotbawks is just an unrepentant liar who is such a sensitive kinda guy that he cant get over the “ick” factor of our marriages. Pobrecito. Just a, well, faggy kinda sensitive guy.
Too bad he cant grow up. Other people have sex, bigotbawks. Outside of marriage. And they sit next to you in church every sunday. Do you find them icky too?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Let’s make laws based on bigotbawks’ um, sensitivities and the ick factor.
Yeah. Real american. Hanging his hat with the good people. Like BTK and child molesting priests.
I’m ignoring you anti, just like I promised.
Talk with your buddy bigotbawks about cooking and chickens.
I’m not going to lower myself to talk with you.
But they STILL wouldnt give up the other benefits of civil marriage. Like… social security, filing taxes jointly, etc. All the things their marriages give them but we dont have.
———–
I would.
I’m not going to lower myself to talk with you.
———————–
OK, civil you don’t have and you won’t get.
Funny, anti wasnt mentioned in this post.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:21 pm
but he must have seen himself?
Narcissist much?
I’m not being uncivil to you, anti.
I’m ignoring you, remember?
Seems like it’s anti who cant keep his word regarding our ignore agreement. I guess he just cant resist me.
Funny, bigotbawks always runs away when I’m here, and only talks shit about me when he thinks I’m not here.
Bawk bawk bawk.
That’s how he got his name.
A really good read about why civil unions are a red herring, and a GREAT explanation of the benefits of marriage that civil unions will never confer.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×4693798
…and you might ask, what are some of those benefits that go to “married people” today and not those in a gay “civil union”? Lambda Legal has identified 1400 such AUTOMATIC benefits for hetero marriages, but here is a partial list.
Civil Unions do not provide the full suite of benefits to same-sex couples
Here is a list of benefits that are afforded to heterosexual marriages that are denied to same-sex couples:
1. Joint parental rights of children
2. Joint adoption
3. Status as “next-of-kin” for hospital visits and medical decisions
4. Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5. Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6. Crime victims recovery benefits
7. Domestic violence protection orders
8. Judicial protections and immunity
9. Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10. Public safety officers death benefits
11. Spousal veterans benefits
12. Social Security
13. Medicare
14. Joint filing of tax returns
15. Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16. Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17. Child support
18. Joint Insurance Plans
19. Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20. Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21. Estate and gift tax benefits
22. Welfare and public assistance
23. Joint housing for elderly
24. Credit protection
25. Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
Let’s see grmie get these with a five dollar piece of paper from her lawyer.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Okay.
I have a serious cooking issue to pose.
The subject: Pot Roast.
I have a house now occupied for the holidays with my two sisters, my niece, and my Mom.
I figured to go the comfort food route and did a pot roast.
Now I am basically a lazy cook. I salt and pepper the roast, rub it with garlic and (we’re talking a chuck roast here) stack the onions, potatoes, and carrots on top of the meat, slash a bunch of Worcestershire sauce on it and throw in a little wine and put it in a 325 oven until the aroma gets so overpowering you can’t resist it.
My Mom complained about the mushy vegetables. She said her method was to brown the meat before putting it in a 350 oven and adding the vegetables later, so there’s be a bit of crunch left in the onions and carrots.
Do you have a preference?
And another thing:
What is it about bay leaves that they have to be removed before you serve the stew or whatever.
If someone gets the bay leaf in their bowl can’t they take it out? If you bite into a bay leaf are you doomed to die? (In which case, why’s it in there in the first place?)
“We put cyanide in your dinner while cooking it but don’t worry, we removed it before serving.” WTF?!
And another thing. If you’re making soup in a factory and the recipe calls for bay leaves, do the cooks at Campbell’s have a secret way of removing a hundred pounds of bay leaves from the vat, or are they dealing with some gigantic genetically-produced single bay leaf? Or is a single ordindary bay leaf in a pot or vat of stew sufficient… so long as you remove it before serving?
Heheheh. Well, your first mistake is chuck roast. It does indeed have great flavor, but it requires looooong cooking to be tender. And yeah, that makes the veggies mushy. I always use sirloin roast which has better flavor and is more tender to begin with. It’s a little more expensive, but not if you buy a “butt in a bag” as my butcher calls it. It’s the vac sealed whole sirloin that you can get for the price of chuck, or less. I cut TWO thick steaks off the small end of the butt, as it is most tender, and then I roast the rest. You can make one big whole roast, which I recommend, or cut it into two smaller roasts. A butt is usually 12-15 lbs, and after I trim SOME of the fat covering and cut the two steaks, it’s usually 8 lbs or so. You can make one 8lb roast, and it will shrink, but it’s the method I recommend. It just tastes better. But if that is too much, cut in half and make two four pound roasts so you can use one and freeze one.
And here begins the Roast Beef Manifesto
Rub the sirloin roast with olive oil and Tony’s Seasoning. Worchestershire sauce is fine as is soy sauce, just not to much or it gets salty. I also put a few one inch slits in the meat and put a peeled garlic clove in each one. Use how many to taste. I use six to eight, some folks would only want two to four.
ALWAYS pre-heat the oven to desired temp. I start the roast on HIGH, like 450-500 degrees for about fifteen minutes and then turn it down to 200 or 250. DONT open the door for at least an hour after you turn it down. The heat needs to go down gradually.
After an hour, open the door and put in the veggies, add a cup or so of water, stock (beef or chicken, doesnt matter) or V-8 juice, or some combo there of. Some folks also like beer or wine, but I think they give a bitter taste over long cooking. But some folks especially like the wine.
I cut the taters into 2inch pieces or so, and same with the thick end of the carrots, but I split the carrots lengthwise. The thinner ends of the carrots I do not split, but I leave them four inches long or so. The onions I cut in about one inch chunks. Season them all with Tony’s as well. You can also add big chunks of celery or thick slices of cabbage, or chunks of turnips. Whaever you like. But I usually just go with potatoes and carrots and onions. And yeah, I add WHOLE bay leaves. Two or three, and do NOT crumble them up. Sometimes I add three or four whole cloves as well. Ground cloves dont work as well. And yeah, I let everyone pick out their own bay leaves, or you can fish them out when you plate. Whatever.
Then put on the roasting pan cover or cover loosely with heavy foil. Put it back in at 250 or 300 and roast another two hours or a little more for the big roast, or another hour plus maybe a half for the little roast. Dont uncover and look at it while it’s cooking. Ya gotta trust your meat, ya know?
Technically, this method is braising, not roasting, but I think if you leave the lid off and roast without adding liquid, which is true “roasting” the beef roasts will get dry. (I actually do roast big ten pound boston pork butts that way, open and dry, but boston butts have lots of fat for self basting. And I use Paul Prudhomme’s Pork Seasoning for that, not Tony’s. I know you must be shocked.)
When finished roasting,take the beef roast and veggies out of the pan and put on a platter, or put the roast on a platter and the veggies and au jus in a bowl. This is a good time to remove the whole bay leaves. Let the roast rest 15 minutes before carving into thin slices. If you want to thicken the au jus, I use cornstarch mixed into a slurry with COLD water, but usually, I dont thicken it at all. My Mom had a trick where she rolled the taters in flour before she put them on the roast, and it made it’s own thick gravy while roasting. She added a little extra water, like an extra half cup, when she did that. It is excellent and the gravy is thick and smooth as silk.
Yum. Yum. Good luck, and let me know how it turns out. I think the trick with the veggies is to let the meat roat for an hour or so before you add them.
Sometimes, I put a four or five pound chuck roast in a granite pan, let it roast an hour at 350 and then add a cup of dry rice around the sides and pour two cups of water over all. I scatter chopped onions and whole garlic cloves, some worchestershire sauce, and tony’s over the whole thing, and put on the lid and roast for another hour or hour and a half. I like that better than potatoes and carrots. The rice will absorb all the liquid, so there wont be any gravy, but the rice is moist and the roast is tender. I loved that when I was a kid.
Thus endeth the roast beef manifesto.
Let me know how it goes. Good luck. Should you fail in your mission, we will disavow all knowlege of you and it. heheheheh.
Keep asking me these cooking questions Monkeyhawk. I’m saving my replies to write a cookbook someday. heheheheh!
Thanks, “ksfarmgrrl!”
I’ll be back with more questions, I promise.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:39 pm | Permalink
“Funny, bigotbawks always runs away when I’m here, and only talks shit about me when he thinks I’m not here.”
No idiot, I know when it’s time to go to bed.
You are so full of hate and anger you stay up spitting it all over the blog.
Kind’a funny really.
“My son is about the fifth generation proof that marriage does not work.”—BlueJay
Your marriage didn’t work BlueJay. That speaks more to you than marriage in general. Mine is working out just fine, as are many, and has for close to 40 years. Our house is filled with my my family, my daughter, son in law, grandkids, though they are still in bed, and later today my son and his wife. All greatly enjoying our family time together just as it is. They will be here through Christmas and then they take off to spend time with his mom and for a vacation at Disney World, and my wife and I a trip to see friends in the warm and sunny south land. Does that sound like marriage doesn’t work BlueJay.
I have no idea why yours didn’t BlueJay, sorry, but I bet if you go find a mirror you will see the cause. Or maybe because your ‘ex’ saw how much of a loser and bitter, envy, hate filled person you seem to be and hightailed it.
Has it ever occurred to you, based on what you said about five generations of failed marriages that your family is doing something wrong? Could it be that your disdain for God has something to do with it. I don’t know, that’s for you to ponder but you might consider trying something different, what you are doing obviously isn’t working very well.
ksfarmgrrl Posted December 20, 2008 at 11:56 pm
“Here is a list of benefits that are afforded to heterosexual marriages that are denied to same-sex couples:”
And then the list.
Almost all of which are easily taken care of with a will, durable power of attorney and a trust.
The rest society and government have wisely decided same sex unions do not warrant because they do not benefit society or they add unnecessary cost placed on society.
Go with what ya got there kfg.
Oh, and I left out simple restraining orders of those not getting along.
So bigotbawks is lying. Again. Not only a deliberate and unrepentant liar, but a serial liar as well.
on “the list” as he mockingly calls it…
Numbers 2,5,6,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,18,19,20,22,23,24,25
can NOT, EVER be granted to gay partners with ANY will, contract, or five dollar piece of paper as germie would say.
NO LAWYER, no amount of legal fees will ever change that those right can NOT be granted in any way but marriage.
And there you see why the “word” marriage is important. It carries a hell of a lot of benefits.
And on “the list” of twenty five things, that means 18 of the 25 are inaccessible without the “married designation”.
Given that, does this bigotbawks statement:
“Almost all of which are easily taken care of with a will, durable power of attorney and a trust.”
Make bigotbawks a liar?
Or just terminally stupid?
I’m guessing both.
If you have evidence that ANY of those 18 can be done by lawyers or trusts or wills, please post.
Millions of gay people would like to know.
nitwit just spouts his talking points without even thinking about them.
The bigotbawks motto?
Dogma for thee, but not for me!
It aint god and it aint gays bawks. No gays in the family and my son is only second generation atheist.
While nice, and a quaint tradition, I simply believe that human beings are not meant to be monogomous.
There are those who will stick the responsibilities and take care of their kids and there are those who are more self absorbed. We should work toward helping people gay OR straight in this responsibility.
“It takes a village to raise a child”
Hillary Clinton
So….
Bawks musta went back to bed? On his way to church? Playing with his grandkids?
Or just too scared to be here at the same time I am.
That’s ok. He can answer for his lies about “the list” and post his evidence to the contrary later.
Good morning JR.
“I have no idea why yours didn’t BlueJay, sorry, but I bet if you go find a mirror you will see the cause. Or maybe because your ‘ex’ saw how much of a loser and bitter, envy, hate filled person you seem to be and hightailed it.”
It had more to do with I wouldn’t smack her around. She found a guy to take care of that. Aint love grand?
bbbaaaaawwwwkkkk bawk bawk bbbbaaaawwwwwkkkkk!
Like that old joke, “BlueJay” –
“Why do you stay with that sadist?!”
“Beats me.”
It’s nice that your family is doing SO well and is so well adjusted and all traditional and all there Bawks.
Um?
With so much going for you and all?
WHY the careful and calculated use of your faith to hurt other people? Just for yuks?
1. Joint parental rights of children
Since gays can’t be biological parents it’s easy to see why granting this right through “marriage” is a nutcracker. What about the biological parents?
Marriage is only the beginning of the solution to your problems.
Good question, “BlueJay” –
As I wrote a few days ago, I find it difficult to be as strong a defender of GLBT rights because I can’t for the life of me figure out the bigots’ agenda.
What’s the up side for them, really?
That’s one reason I refer to them as CONs; they seem to be overwhelming against stuff simply to be against it.
We don’t hear what they’re actually for, so much.
That’s got to be a miserable existence.
“on “the list” as he mockingly calls it…
can NOT, EVER be granted to gay partners with ANY will, contract, or five dollar piece of paper as germie would say.”—kfg
Uh…silly, read my post. I said “The rest society and government have wisely decided same sex unions do not warrant because they do not benefit society or they add unnecessary cost placed on society.”
Again….go with what ya got there kfg. Be Happy!
Just fnished watching the Dateline interview with Pastor Warren.
If you can hate a man like this based on this one stance and wish the ill you have on him, I don’t see how you can function as either an upstanding or contributing member to any society.
I’m done with this thread and headed back to bed.
“While nice, and a quaint tradition, I simply believe that human beings are not meant to be monogomous[sic].”
Wow!!! Is it any wonder BlueJay is by himself, bitter and resentful.
BlueJay, try focusing on a little more than your own immediate gratification. There are many animal species that have more dedication and commitment than you.
Wow, I say again, Wow!!!
“If you can hate a man like this based on this one stance and wish the ill you have on him, I don’t see how you can function as either an upstanding or contributing member to any society.”—Mr. Kia
Mr. Kia, that’s EXACTLY the point….those that feel that way AREN’T FUNCTIONING AS AN UPSTANDING OR CONTRIUTING MEMBER TO ANY SOCIETY”.
While I DO think marriage is not suited for human beings…..
It is not ME who is trying to deny it to anyone.
I ask again.
In your blessed, God given happiness, how IS it you are so disposed to administering pain?
SURELY you have better things to do?
I must have missed where anyone wished ill on Warren.
Mr. Warren is a pig.
“In your blessed, God given happiness, how IS it you are so disposed to administering pain?
SURELY you have better things to do?”
I’m sure I have better things to do as well. I question the sanity of anybody spending time here.
I don’t mean to inflict pain, people must suffer the consequences of their choices and actions, simply pointing that out should be viewed as concern and help….not an attempt to inflict pain.
Remember BJ, pain as you call it, consequences as I call it, are a learning experience. The wise pick up on that, those that don’t continue in their pain.
SO that would be a “no” on posting evidence that “the list” is wrong?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
As far as joint parental rights, many gays and lesbians ARE biological parents and in some states, that’s enough for them to lose custody and parental rights. Dare me to google the case in Virginia.
Facts, such pesky things.
But ya know, gay couples frequently adopt kids, kinda like straigth married people do when they cant, for medical reasons, have their own.
Many states will not recognize more than one “mom” or “dad” New York just recently has begun to do so, but most states do not.
That is what is meant by joint parental rights.
nitwit.
His bigotry is only exceeded by his