Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., has changed, or perhaps changed back. In counting him among the congressional Republicans upset about the White House’s Big Three bailout, MSNBC’s First Read blog recalls that “this is the same John McCain who ‘suspended his campaign’ to try and strike a deal on the Wall Street bailout – which was roughly 41 times the size of Detroit’s.”
McCain said of the massive auto loan: “I regret the president’s decision to give away over $17 billion to the domestic automakers. Just last week, the Senate rejected a bailout plan because it failed to provide assurances that the domestic manufacturers would fundamentally change the way they do business to ensure their long-term viability. I find it unacceptable that we would leave the American taxpayer with a tab of tens of billions of dollars while failing to receive any serious concessions from the industry.”
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/7
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/7
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/7
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/7
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/7
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/7
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/7
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/7
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/7
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/7
37 Comments
So what are the problems that the American auto industry faces? They have been building cars that there is a demand for though was not fuel-efficient. They have been building cars that there was no expectation that they would last for more then 10 years. While the foreign makers have been building better gas mileage and longer lasting cars.
To make matters worst the economics are against them even if they change to be more in line with the foreign makers. That maybe their biggest problem as it would not matter if they made the best cars. If the banks are not willing to loan the money. And the masses are so concerned about keeping the lights on and the house heated. That they do not want to take on another debit for fear of losing their jobs.
Loaning money to the Big Three may be the same as lending money to a compulsive gambler. They’ve known for thirty years or more that they needed to change their act, but they’ve never seemed to manage it. Yeah, there have been some half-assed attempts, but no real commitment. Yeah, they may even be sincere this time, but 17 Billion Dollars is an awful lot of money to pour down what is probably a rathole.
Yeah, we’ll do it for the workers, but we may just be prolonging the agony. If Detroit can’t produce a genuine miracle by next summer, they’re out of a job anyway.
Given that the banking industry lost its shirt (and pants) making stupidly risky loans with other people’s money over the last few years, is this really the time to make our next few generations of taxpayers jump off that same bridge?
so they can keep the doors open and the keep building cars. But is that their problem? The loan is as much to stop the numbers from growing on the unemployment line. But how can they keep the workers working and building cars if the cars do not sell?
As I said before, buy the cars. Distribute them to government agencies, national, state, local. At least you have something. And the wealth spreads upward from the bottom. The CEOs will just spend the money on whores and blow. It should be the same way with the mortgages. Lower the principal and interest until owners can afford the payments. Hopeless cases get thrown out the door. If the banks don’t like it, they get to sit on empty houses. I’ve noticed before the refusal to deal with those not in your own perceived class. Disaster almost always is the result. Only the needs of the class are addressed, but never the problem. Most captains would let their ships sink, rather than give up the captaincy.
People like Paulson could never conceive of dealing with anyone but the bank CEOs he dines with at the club.
For the amount we are spending on bailouts we could buy every foreclosed home and give it to the people who live in it, and buy every new car sitting on the lots. Instead we are distributing it to assholes whose only thought is “what is in it for me?” Which is also the motto of most Republicans now days. Or maybe all of us, which is the problem.
Bebe,
“As I said before, buy the cars. Distribute them to government agencies, national, state, local. At least you have something.”
Good idea! Expand on it. Continue to buy cars and sell them at a discount with no-interest loans to those working poor who can’t afford them now. No Caddies or SUV’s, just basic reasonable, fuel-efficient cars. We’ll still get a better return on our money than we’d get from Detroit!
Another possibility would be for the government to sell Detroit exclusive rights to its stealth technology. Who wouldn’t want a radar-proof car?
After they do all these loans to big companies, they will find they still haven’t addressed the main problem.
That is, Americans are in debt up to their necks in credit card, house, auto loans and medical debt.
Oh yeah, and their retirements have been raided by corporate misconduct.
Why fibulus, I didn’t know you could actually make sense.
I must be losing my mind: I agree with Reg for once.
The savings rate in this country is now a -1.2%. People are using their credit cards for emergencies. But the problem goes way deeper than that. Congress voted $700 billion for greedy corporate bailouts, and those same corporations are reluctant to loan that money out. Why? They burned themselves and the general public so bad with the CDO, CMO and the whole derivative mess. Just look at your 401K to figure that out.
The real problem is that same $700 billion wont do a damn thing for the economy. It will take upwards of $7 trillion to get this countries economy back on track, and that’s about half of this countries GDP. And what’s really pissing me off is the fact congress has done nothing about derivatives. They’re not doing anything to change the face or the structure of the systems financial health. Samo-samo. And Bush wanted to “reform” social security. Imagine if that would have gone through. Talk about a Boston tea party.
If Obama is so set on change, I think it’s time to bombard him and his staff with a mass email campaign demanding real change in the way private financial institutions do business, and that means dumping any and all categories and sub-categories of the derivative market.
Warren Buffet warned about just what the derivative market would do, and he was correct right down to the mess we’re in now, while Allen Greenspan fiddled and Paulson collected billions. I hope Obama, when he takes office, in his first move, tells Paulson to get the f_ _ _ out of town, along with the rest of the bozos who fed off the public teat.
Hell yes, he’s upset, this is the same guy that wants airbus to build our tankers!
Re. the bailouts, repubs demonstrate they’re penney wise and pound foolish, all the time.
I heard something about european countries have a mandatory turn in of older cars periodically. Not sure how that works, might be something to consider.
It’s my understanding that mccain skipped the senate vote on the auto rescue bill, apparently he wasn’t too concerned.
What’s funny is the same repubs that voted it down were pissed at bush for making them vote on it when he could have used the tarp money. Now that he has, they can’t wait to bad mouth the use of the tarp money!
It’s political, they’re thinking mid-term elections.
I believe while the senate was voting to block it, mccain was making his appearance on Letterman.
Kinda makes me want to buy a Honda right now! I think Bush was too quick to pull the trigger on this deal.
The U.S. needs to find a way to unwind the shadow banking industry, or regulate it and require the insurance sellers have to have ample reserves for their bets.
Has McCain figured out why he lost the election yet? He “suspends” his campaign to rescue Wall street, wall street gets their “gift” from the US govt. with little more than a phone call to the president. The big three are summoned before congress to beg for a loan that is 1/14th the amount, and congress whines about use of the corprate jets. His contempt for American workers is old news. He is a fossil.
It appeals to mccain’s base (middle income/lower income repubs) to lament helping out the white collar worker.
I wouldnt have approved a dollar to these guys without the Union agreeing to a pay cut. I know it should fall on the workers but at the same time these people make an average of 69.00 per hour after benefits. I know alot of people that work for much much less, in fact here in Wichita you could employ 3 people very happily with that one persons wage.
Gee I seem to recall during the presidential campaign that Senator McCain loved the auto workers of Michigan. “We are not going to leave the workers here in Michigan hung out to dry while we give billions in taxpayer dollars to Wall Street,” said McCain. “It is time to get our auto industry back on its feet. It’s time for a new generation of cars and for loans to build the facilities that will make them.” Michigan Republican Party Chairman Saul Anuzis said “McCain is on the side of the auto idustry and his campaign visits to Michigan auto plants are proof.”
During the debates leading up to the Detroit automaker bailout, politicians and pundits kept pointing to Toyota and asking “Why can’t you be more like them?” Well, they are… sorta. It’s looking increasingly likely that Toyota will post an operating loss for the 2008 fiscal year that ends March 31, 2009. The last time Toyota lost money over an entire year was its first 365 days of operation back in 1937/38.
Toyota has apparently been slashing budgets across the board in recent months as sales have dropped by more than 30% in the US and in other parts of the world. At the same time, the value of the dollar against the yen has also dropped, meaning that Toyota is losing out on the currency exchange. Toyota (and Honda and Nissan) are navigating the same severe rapids as Detroit, they just started further upstream. The company has slashed production, canceled a diesel engine program for its big trucks and halted construction on a new factory in Mississippi. A profit warning announcement is expected from Toyota on Monday.
“I seem to recall during the presidential campaign that Senator McCain loved the auto workers of Michigan.” — AmericanBridge
——-
ONE of the many reasons McCain wasn’t elected. We never knew what deeply held conviction he would hold on any given day. I wasn’t ever able to tell conclusively if that was because he couldn’t remember or plain ole pandering.
The Ford F-150 and the Chevrolet Silverado are the two best-selling vehicles so far in America this year. The pickup trucks, the F-150 from Ford, 473,933 buyers this year. That’s number one selling car for 2008. The Chevrolet Silverado, 431,725 buyers. They’re pretty close here, but the F-150 is number one. I guess the big three do build what Americans want to buy.
“Glang” –
“…$69 dollars per hour after benifts…” is simply a lie.
Linda many are saying that same thing about Obama today. Guess they are after all just politicians and we were all fooled.
Good posts Mr. Bridge. You’d think with a half million truck sales a profit could be made somehow.
#
AmericanBridge
Posted December 20, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
The Ford F-150 and the Chevrolet Silverado are the two best-selling vehicles so far in America this year. The pickup trucks, the F-150 from Ford, 473,933 buyers this year. That’s number one selling car for 2008. The Chevrolet Silverado, 431,725 buyers. They’re pretty close here, but the F-150 is number one. I guess the big three do build what Americans want to buy.
=====================================================
Which is why they’re at the door with hands out.
I have not analyze the auto industry situation deeply enough yet but is there any possibility that they have done reached their apogee in pricing?
Surly everyone loves to have a new car but realistically their prices do not inspire a sell.
Take as an example Big Dog motorcycles and Honda motorcycles.
BD is in the $30 thousand range and they are laying off and cutting back but Honda are in the $6 thousand range and selling so good that they can not keep up with the demands.
Now for the last decade how many cars that the big 3’s have produced that is affordable for the lesser income demographic?
Take as another example, I am mechanical inclined and for $6 thousand, I can rebuild a car back to its original state or better then what the big 3s can produce.
There is a big industry in after market and repairing.
The point that I am try to say is the big 3s have been operating out touch with the public in its marketing and out of sync with the public’s economics.
It is not what the public is willing to buy but what is being offer to them that they can afford.
And btw AmericanBridge, the F-150’s and Chevy Silverado’s is a favorite of the illegal immigrants, which might explain some those figures.
The imports, except for maybe kia are priced right alongside the domestic manuf.
For that matter toyota’s sales have dropped off consistent with the overall market too.
As for big dog, I believe the sell customized cycles, and probably do not compete in the same market as Honda.
Mccain’s just another obstructionist who has no answers himself (although I’m sure he’d be the first to tell you, not only does he know how to get Osama, but has the solution for the economic crisis).
Was Michigan where McCain pulled his campaign? I tend to forget the things I should remember and remember the things I shouldn’t. :(
Writedog asks: But how can they keep the workers working and building cars if the cars do not sell?
——————–
The answer is – they don’t. The union has negotiated an arrangement that the employees get laid off, but continue to receive 95% of the salary they received when they were actually working.
In other words, the company pays them to sit at home and watch their favorite NFL and basketball games while their company goes broke.
And liberals are o.k. with that.
F-150 is number one. I guess the big three do build what Americans want to buy
_________________________________________________
What some need to remember, is Ford has said they do not need any money. GM and Chrysler are the ones in trouble
I find it funny that most folks think all of the money shenanigans happened over the last 10 or 15 years. It began on December 23, 1913. The Federal Reserve Act was signed, but never truly ratified (yes, yes, you’ll say that it was, but it wasn’t). It was signed and put into “law” by corrupt bankster’s that used the age-old tradition of fractional-reserve banking, when corrupt bankster’s decided to bet on the same dollar 1000 times over. When they decided that (against our US Constitution) they would and could print their own money and use it first when it was worth something. And leave us holding the bag. Hell, over half of this dumbed-down country still believe that The Federal Reserve is a government body. NEWSFLASH: It’s private and has never claimed to be either, federal or reserved. The root of the problem is an apathetic and unaware populace.
Look at Cuba. Up until 1960, their country imported
big ol American cars that have somehow lasted through the years. It is unbelievable that they can make a car last that long. Look at any car this day in age, 15yrs, and 250k is about the max.