John McCain has been losing support among independent women voters, and columnist Anne Applebaum, herself an independent voter who supported McCain in 2000, explained why. She contends that McCain has abandoned what appealed to voters in 2000 and aligned himself with the “rapidly deteriorating, increasingly anti-intellectual, no longer even recognizably conservative Republican Party.” She lamented: “Although McCain has one of the best records for bipartisanship in the Senate, he’s let his campaign appeal to his party’s extremes. Though he is a true foreign policy intellectual, his supporters cultivate ignorance and fear.”
Columnist David Brooks, a McCain fan, made a similar argument in noting how the GOP is losing the center. Self-declared moderates favor Obama by 59 to 30 percent, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll, and voters favor Obama by 21 points on the economy and by 14 points on tax policy, according to a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll.
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Maybe it’s because McCain has a nut like Palin who doesn’t even know what the First Amendment is.
“If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative campaigning, for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations,” Palin told host Chris Plante, “then I don’t know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-fears-med.html
Dumber than a sack of bricks.
Maggot
Palin is exactly right.
When the MSM REFUSES to do the job that our Founders thought they would do, when the 1st Amendment was written, it DOES threaten our liberty.
The media, the press, is supposed to be “The Fourth Estate” and they are NOT anymore.
The MSM has become a cheerleader for Obama, in this election.
The Press even helped go after “Joe the Plumber” — Why?
Joe was not looking for Obama.
Obama walked down JOE’s street.
Have the media put any of Obama’s supporters under the microscope?
Yes, our First Amendment IS at risk, when the media behaves in such a way that few trust or respect the media.
By the way — “Independents” are breaking for McCain, in the last few polls, in rather large numbers.
IF you claim to be “Independent” and you vote for the Marxist trained, radical Islamic sympathizer, Dirty Chicago Machine hack Obama?
Well, you are not telling the truth about your political views.
Thanks Paul for proving you don’t understand what the First Amendment stands for. No wonder you adore Palin so much, stupidity loves like minded peers.
Obama’s brother lives in a hut, in Kenya.
Obama’s Aunt is an illegal alien under a court deportation order.
Obama’s Aunt Zeituni gave an illegal campaign contribution of $260.00 to Obama? Ya, right!
She lives in PUBLIC HOUSING, in a SLUM, shouldn’t Obama be sending HER money? (Obviously, this is asked in jest, as Aunt Zeituni is only a “front” for this money, as are many of the names on Obama’s contribution list.)
“Whatsoever you do, to the least of my Brothers, that you do unto me” Obama quotes the Bible.
However, Obama will only help you with TAXPAYER money. Even if you are RELATED to Obama, he won’t to SQUAT, to help you, with his OWN money!
This story deserves its own thread, and the Eagle shows the sorry state of journalism, today, by not holding Obama accountable for this latest hypocrisy!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D945TEE01&show_article=1
Maggot
You don’t understand how to read, you do not understand logic, and you do not understand the 1st Amendment.
ALL of our liberties survive because of public support.
The deplorable way in which the media have behaved, in this election, is doing great damage to the public support of “Free Speech”!
As “The Fourth Estate” the media was seen to be a check and balance against government abuse.
We were seen to have the Executive, the Legislative, the Judicial, and a quasi-governmental “Fourth Estate” or the Press.
The Press has failed in its duty.
The Press has abused its power.
The public is already in revolt.
Check the huge financial losses at most major newspapers, and some major networks.
Paul, the First Amendment is pretty short, you should try reading it for a change.
As for your rant against Obama’s relatives, that shows why McCain is losing Republicans and Independents. With the economy crashing the biggest issue you guys can come up with is that Obama’s brother lives in Kenya. Who cares? But keep that up and say President Obama for the next 8 years.
WASHINGTON – That smiling guy walking down the street? Odds are he’s a Barack Obama backer. The grouchy looking one? Don’t ask, and don’t necessarily count on him to vote next week, either.
More John McCain supporters feel glum about the presidential campaign while more of Obama’s are charged up over it, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll released Saturday.
The survey shows McCain backers have become increasingly upset in recent weeks, a period that has seen Obama take a firm lead in many polls. One expert says the contrasting moods could affect how likely the two candidates’ supporters are to vote on Election Day, possibly dampening McCain’s turnout while boosting Obama’s.
While 43 percent of the Democrat Obama’s backers said they are excited over the campaign, just 13 percent of McCain’s said so, according to the survey of adults, conducted by Knowledge Networks. Six in 10 Obama supporters said the race interests them, compared to four in 10 backing McCain, the Republican senator from Arizona.
On the flip side, 52 percent of McCain supporters said the campaign has left them frustrated, compared to 30 percent of Obama’s. A quarter of McCain backers say they feel helpless, double the rate of those preferring Obama, the Illinois senator.
Obama is an arrogant, selfish liar.
Obama cares nothing about his own relatives.
I think the public will consider Obama’s character flaws, in this regard, IF they are told the story.
That’s OK Pubes. In a few days it will be over and you can join HLP and move with him to India where you won’t have to put up with us socialists.
Or, you could move to Alaska and enjoy living under the Communist rule of Palin.
Good luck to you losers!
FU Franklin and your pissy horse.
[Anne Applebaum] contends that McCain has abandoned what appealed to voters in 2000 and aligned himself with the “rapidly deteriorating, increasingly anti-intellectual, no longer even recognizably conservative Republican Party.”
—
This is what happens when the GOP base refuses to become engaged unless it’s “fired up.”
The GOP, or what’s left of it, is in the aggregate addicted to the flavor of rage that comes from carefully identifying “the other” and then for each individual member using this identification as a structure into which each Republic can pour all his/her hate.
In other words, if they can’t hate they won’t play. They need to hate in order to feel like working for their candidate (and yes it really does come down to feelings for them…because, duh, they’re human just like Democrats).
This was McCain’s problem in a nutshell last summer: his base’s addiction to hate. They refused to turn out and work for him until he added to the ticket a pitbull with lipstick who the base perceived as the perfect channeller for the hate the GOP always, reliably, supplies them. But of course the pitbull with lipstick drove independents away from McCain as if they were running from…a pitbull with lipstick.
If the base had worked harder sooner, so that McCain could have avoided picking Palin to get their attention, then McCain might have won the election.
What’s left of the GOP, that’s who to blame. Not McCain, not Palin, but the base. They’re just sick.
Good post Pendant. The “base ” has become the “mob”. The bandwagon that craves the adrenaline rush of fear combined with killing. The Republicans have narrowed themselves down to a group not unlike those that burned witches in the 17th century.
The Republicans have become the party of white male supremacy with posters here calling Obama the “magic Negro” etc.
The Republican Party under the Bush dynasty has become Fascist.
Applebaum pretty much put it in a nutshell, on both McCain and the party. My guess is that most believe their line of thinking is logical and reasonable. As such they want to be in the majority and so the term “base” would describe them. But who is really the base of the Republican Party? We will find out before it is all over. Either the masses will be leaving the party to the other side of reality or take the party back from them. For now it is the ideologists whom seem to be in control over the fiscal conservatives/ small government thinkers. And by ideologists I include the “Social Conservatives” not just the “we are the biggest boy on the block and you better do as I say” group.
McCain lost me when he turned to the dark side, embracing the Neo-con agenda and pandering to the R.R.
There is a rule somewhere that states you can not be a maverick any longer if you are following the herd toward a cliff. Perhaps he realized this was his last shot at the Oval office and sold his principles in order to get it. I would be the first to say that John McCain in the past was a honorable man and has done things and endured things that should be respected and admired. But he has reach the point he needs to bone up on the lyrics to that Toby Keith song “I an’t as good as I once was”. Sad really….
“Why McCain is losing independents”
Wishful thinking, Phillip?
Yet the conservatives have converted “spreading the wealth” into the socialist mantra “redistribution of wealth,” which Obama didn’t say.
As it happens, we already have had a revolution that redistributed the wealth. Bush’s big tax overhaul redistributed it to the already rich, so they could be richer yet.
By 2005, households enjoying the top 1 percent of incomes — those earning more than $348,000 a year — were receiving the biggest share of national income since 1928. The income gap between the well-off and others has stretched beyond shouting distance. Where middle and lower earners had shared in the 1990s boom, they generally lost income in the meager “Bush recovery” from the brief 2001 recession.
MCCAIN/PALIN WILL TAX THE MIDDLE CLASS TO GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE WEALTHY.
‘Nuff said!
More poll tightening based on McCain “beginning to cut into Obama’s lead among independents”. IN fact, McCain was up 48-47 in the latest Zogby poll.
The smug libs might be starting to sweat a little. One thing is certain, even in this perfect storm for the Democrats, there will be no landslide. No “mandate”.
——————–
Released: 11-01-2008
Pollster John Zogby: “Is McCain making a move? The three-day average holds steady, but McCain outpolled Obama today, 48% to 47%. He is beginning to cut into Obama’s lead among independents, is now leading among blue collar voters, has strengthened his lead among investors and among men, and is walloping Obama among NASCAR voters. Joe the Plumber may get his license after all. “Obama’s lead among women declined, and it looks like it is occurring because McCain is solidifying the support of conservative women, which is something we saw last time McCain picked up in the polls. If McCain has a good day tomorrow, we will eliminate Obama’s good day three days ago, and we could really see some tightening in this rolling average. But for now, hold on.”
One of the biggest well know independent Joe Leiberman(Senator from Connecticut) was not even mentioned as an independent supporting the McCain & Palin ticket. Where’s the fairness with the Wichita Eagle.
I guarantee if Obama was white, there would be a twenty point difference in the polls, the majority being for Obama.
I used to be a Republican until the idiot we now have as President took office. The Republican party took a decided right hand turn then, and has been turning further right as time goes by. Their god is war, fueled by taxpayer dollars. Their philosophy is more for me, less for you.
I somewhat applaud their stance on abortion to the point I hate seeing any child flushed down the drain, but that’s my opinion. Ask JR about that; we had a lengthy discussion on that subject, and he finally understood where I was coming from. But I despise their cavalier attitude to the child once born. One only has to look at the record to understand that: it was the Republicans who were against child health care. Their excuse? Some people might abuse the program, as if all government programs aren’t abused as it is.
McCain will do nothing less than further that philosophy, and in so doing, further alienate the people of this country. We don’t need that. as we have already gone through the same for the past eight years, and look where that has gotten us.
I would hope independent voters will look at the real McCain, and see just what a divisive person he really is.
Why didn’t you stick around Walker, and help with the reform of the Republican party, instead of letting George Bush push you out?
JMWalker
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:48 am | Permalink
I guarantee if Obama was white, there would be a twenty point difference in the polls, the majority being for Obama.
======================
Obama would have never gotten out of the primaries if he ran as a white man.
“The income gap between the well-off and others has stretched beyond shouting distance.”
—-mxyzptlk
Well what do you expect when the well off go out and earn it themselves and many of the others you refer to don’t but simply expect to live off the government dole.
Nobody is holding anyone back except the underachievers themselves.
The well-off also pay out of proportion most of the taxes in this country. As it is the bottom 41% don’t pay any income taxes to contribute to maintaining this country.
Over Half of Americans On the Government Dole
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1817960/posts
Lest they forget…………
“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
——Cicero – 55 BC
And then Rome collapsed because of the exact causes Cicero warned of.
McCain was correct on picking a Woman as VP, but he must have been totally off his rocker to pick Palin. He should have picked sebelius, I don’t think sebelius would have turned down a VP position just because it’s the Republican Party. That was McCain’s biggest mistake, is trying to appeal to the idiot extreme right that are still supporting Bush. Besides McCain is closer to a Democrat, hell he ran as a Democrat last time, he would have had a real chance at beating Obama, by throwing Party affiliations out the window.
Ahhhh…the resident bigots have awakened.
Independents (like most GOOD Americans) have gotten fed up with the republican “Me First” attitude. Eight years of a republican in the Whitehouse hasn’t just shown Americans what’s wrong with the GOP, it’s rubbed their noses in it.
A speechwriter for Reagan and Nixon—who worked at the National Review for four decades—on why he’s voting for Obama.
Obama is the Real Conservative
by Jeffrey Hart
It may be something of a surprise that, as a long time conservative, I now support Barack Obama. In 1968, I was a speechwriter first for Ronald Reagan, when Governor of California, then, as Richard Nixon became the presidential nominee, a speechwriter for Nixon, working at his home office at 450 Park Avenue. I became a senior editor at National Review in 1969, a position I held until recently.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-31/obama-is-the-true-conservative/
#
outlander
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:54 am | Permalink
Why didn’t you stick around Walker, and help with the reform of the Republican party, instead of letting George Bush push you out?
=======================================================
That would be because there is little, if any, hope for the Republican party as I see it. The Democrats are getting more and more aligned with my beliefs, so jumping ship is not something that bothers me at all.
One might ask why you stick with a party that cares so little for the American people?
How about a contest to see how many prominent Democrats are supporting McCain vs prominent Republicans supporting Obama?
Joe Leiberman doesn’t count ’cause he’s an “Independent”.
Boxlock
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:05 am | Permalink
The well-off also pay out of proportion most of the taxes in this country. As it is the bottom 41% don’t pay any income taxes to contribute to maintaining this country.
========================================================
. . .and just who has run all three branches of government since bush took office, excluding the past year and a half? Think there’s a connection, or are you still in denial?
This has been going around the internet for some time as an illustration of taxes. The way it is told varies, but the idea remains the same. The original writer is unknown.
Bar Stool Economics
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20′, declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right’, exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’
‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’
‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
We’ll never know for sure whether a responsible choice for running mate would have made a difference. McCain had already become McCain the candidate who proved to be a different man than McCain the Senator. But when he choose the gaudy, boisterous showgirl he proved he would always put McCain and his own ambitions above our country.
American has embarrassed herself over the last eight years, it’s time to regain our dignity.
*when he chose…
Wow.
Like a drowning man, “Franklin” keeps desperately grasping for something, anything, that might keep him afloat.
Letting the Shrub tax cut for top incomes return to the pre-Shrub tax cut rate — as the Republic Party promised back in 2002 — and bumping up the marginal tax rate 4 points on all income after you’ve first netted $250,000.00 — hardly leads us to Maoist/Stalinist/Marxist oppression.
And Republic Party candidates and advocates know that. But they’re clinging to that rhetoric in a desperate hope it might connect with stupid people and keep their sorry power structure afloat.
“Franklin” jumped the shark when he tried to contrive a connection with Obama and the Charlie Manson family.
If someone came up with definitive photographic evidence of 2-year-old Barack Obama firing a carbine at JFK from the grassy knoll, “Franklin” has already poisoned the well of anti-Obama nitwits. The little boy who cried “wolf,” and all that…
But, to return to the topic:
John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) doesn’t have anyone who’s come forward to give any of us a reason to vote for him. All they’ve got is absurd accusations which might catch a bit of stupid people’s worst fears about Obama.
Some of the silly tangential issues “Franklin” rants about probably show up in every campaign. That “Franklin” thinks any of them matter is evidence of his insanity.
#
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:31 am | Permalink
We’ll never know for sure whether a responsible choice for running mate would have made a difference. McCain had already become McCain the candidate who proved to be a different man than McCain the Senator. But when he choose the gaudy, boisterous showgirl he proved he would always put McCain and his own ambitions above our country.
American has embarrassed herself over the last eight years, it’s time to regain our dignity.
——————————-
Really? Embarrassed?
Just exactly what country states that the U.S. is an embarrassment?
You mean France? The country that was caught with their hand in the Saddam Hussein’s bank accounts providing him military equipment for the money in the oil for food bank accounts?
Or Russia? Or Germany? All caught with their hand in the same till?
What is it about Libs and their reinvention of history?
That would be because there is little, if any, hope for the Republican party as I see it. The Democrats are getting more and more aligned with my beliefs, so jumping ship is not something that bothers me at all.
One might ask why you stick with a party that cares so little for the American people.
———–
Well Walker, the Democrats have done nothing but move further left recently, so if they are getting more in line with your beliefs, then perhaps you were miscast as a Republican to begin with.
AS for the rhetoric about the Republicans “caring so little for the American people”, the Republican party consists of American people. You may disagree with the theory of limited government (yes, I know Bush didn’t walk that walk) and a hand up rather than a hand out, but to say we don’t care is just worthless rhetoric.
I mentioned reform, and there is no doubt that the Republican party has been betrayed by a few of it’s leaders and needs a good dose of it. But I’m certainly not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Or for that matter, to abort the baby.
Beautiful day. Lots to do. Have a good one.
Not only is he losing the idependants, he’s losing the republicans. When he based his campaign on rumors, lies, and fear…what should he expect…most Americans are smarter than that…we want the country to go in a different direction than the last 8 years, and Obama is the only one who offers that.
“I think the public will consider Obama’s character flaws, in this regard, IF they are told the story.”
What about McCain character flaws? He’s admitted he’s had numerous affairs while married to his first wife and left her for another woman, who faithfully waited for his while he was a POW.
What about his involvement in the biggest savings and loan scandel in history up until now?
If you’re going to pick a candidate on the basis of character…then Obama should win hands down
Me? I voted based on the issues and what solutions each candidate brings to the table.
One thing I’d like to see sometime is a reliable description of an “Independent.” These self-proclaimed voters, when I encounter them in the course of living, often arrive at elections with either a progressive streak or a conservative streak, just like Democrats and Republicans. In the last six months, I’ve met “Independents” who are more determined to vote for McCain than are a few of my moderate friends and family, who normally vote Republican but have said they’re supporting Obama this cycle. When you engaged the “Independents” on their rationale, the argument was in line with what you’d expect to hear from a more entrenched Republican. People like to believe that they are independent and maybe they register that way to reinforce the idea. And I’ll concede that a group of voters may exist who really do sit out there, cleansed of biases, objectively assessing the candidates in hope of putting the best person in office, but I suspect that even those voters have a few undetected predispositions up their sleeves.
Nevertheless, Applebaum does have a point. The McCain campaign has consistently displayed a low level of respect for the intelligence of voters, especially women voters. Someone should have mentioned to McCain that women are reportedly better read than men, and arguably better informed. If McCain wanted to appeal directly to women, he should have put a sophisticated, qualified, woman on the ticket. That he did not do, so he’s left with support from the base and little else. Republican-friendly columnists (Brooks at the NYT, Cohen at the Wash Post, Noonan at the WSJ–the list gets longer by the hour) declined to back his decision, probably at least in part because they couldn’t bring themselves to go on record as believing that he had been responsible. In addition, Colin Powell backed Obama and pointed to Palin as one of the reasons.
Someone up thread (probably Pedant) said that the problem is the base itself. The Republican base does have a “my way or the highway,” mindset, and they reinforce it on Fox News. They are likely going to get a prime opportunity to sit on the sidelines for the next four years. Will they redouble their tunnel vision and back Palin in 2012? Or will some of these peel off and join with moderates to put forth a candidate who can appeal to a wider demographic? This will be fun to watch, but as a progressive with a bit of a libertarian streak, I’ll concede right here that my sympathies will be with Obama. I like the guy.
There is no such thing as a registered “Independent” voter in Kansas. The nearest you can come is to register as “Unaffiliated”.
Pall,
“As “The Fourth Estate” the media was seen to be a check and balance against government abuse.”
So finally, after the last 8yrs of pretending to be the Bushco propaganda machine, the media has finally started acting as it should, which of course you bush-league ‘publicans see as betrayal of The Party.
McCane may (or may not) have once been “The Maverick” but since spending the last few years with his nose up Bushie’s butt to get his endorsement, and the butts of the televangelists and the neo-cons for the same reason, he’s maverick no longer, just the latest in the ‘publican daisy chain of Reagan kiss-ups. The press finally saw that and reported it.
If your party can’t do better than McCane/Palin, maybe it’s time you retired to your assigned place on history’s ash-heap next to marxism and fascism where you can all argue over what paradise might have been. Y’all have fun now!
I love it when the demos on here attack our VP choice who was lauded by Hillary Clinton as the new face of politics. A woman who has a record of accomplishments. A woman who has organized and ran first a city and then a state. A woman who has a 80% approval rating in her home state.
But they lift up their ‘community organizer’ with no accomplishments as the face of ‘change’. I’m still waiting for any of them to list his accomplishments. Never have any takers.
I love when Mary says the reason he is losing the independents when the latest poll out shows that he has received a major shift in the last three days of the independents, conservative women, blue collar workers, etc.. I just love when the libs attack McCain over his personal failing and I do think his treatment of his first wife was a failing. He has admitted this. I love when they look at their own party and never see this in any of their dem heros. As for his Keating connections he admitted he should have looked closer at this before the and John Glenn (D) got involved. It was investigated and no charges were filed against either of them. But of course this is more important that announcing your political sendoff in the living room of an unrepentant terrorist, or buying property well below market value from a slum lord who is a felon. Or refusing to acknowledge ties to the PLO.
The stench of fear is strong this morning coming off the dems. Tuesday will tell the tale. I hope that the American public will wise up before then and vote McCain but if they don’t we have a long four years ahead of us where we get acquainted with the real Obama the MSM didn’t want us to know.
Very well written, Royall.
When someone figures our what an Independent is, maybe they can tackle both Republican and Democratic next?
Seems we each have a favorable (whatever that is to each personally) definition of our own affiliation and a negative (again varies widely) of the opposing. Most detrimental to all of us is our inability to see where we might agree.
I know the Republican Party left me when the emphasis of concern became “social” issues. Strangely to me it seemed at the same time actually caring about people and realizing our responsibilities to one another was abandoned. Too much emphasis (for me) on life before birth and waging war. I don’t like the America that behaves as a world bully, and wants to legislate morality.
“The stench of fear is strong this morning coming off the dems.”
Maybe you should take a shower germ, what you smell isn’t us Dems.
okobserver
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:45 am | Permalink
As for his Keating connections he admitted he should have looked closer at this before the and John Glenn (D) got involved. It was investigated and no charges were filed against either of them.
_________________________________________________
Bill Ayers was investigated and wasn’t convicted of anything yet you insist on calling him an “unrepentant terrorist”. Kind of a double standard, no?
I have 2 problems with McCain:
He’s too old.
He was a collaborator and a traitor to his country. He sold out all of us who served in Vietnam
“He was a collaborator and a traitor to his country. He sold out all of us who served in Vietnam”
_______________________________________________
I’ve made this statement numerous times and republicans don’t respond. Does it not matter to you conservatives that your candidate for president was a traitor? A collaborator? You proclaim that you support the troops, but you’re ok with the fact that McCain sold the troops out? Being a traitor and a collaborator is ok, but knowing Bill Ayers is bad?
Hypocrites
Deb?
Why do you stand WITH the richies who would slap you on the rear and say “go get me another drink, girl!”?
Like Walker, I was once a Republican too. But I found that the party….wasn’t a party. It’s a collection of selfish stupid, not very bright or thoughtful individuals. MOST of whom are too stupid to know that they have their own foot on their throat.
“Pollster John Zogby: “Is McCain making a move? The three-day average holds steady, but McCain outpolled Obama today, 48% to 47%. He is beginning to cut into Obama’s lead among INDEPENDENS, is now leading among blue collar voters, has strengthened his lead among investors and among men, and is walloping Obama among NASCAR voters. Joe the Plumber may get his license after all. “Obama’s lead among women declined, and it looks like it is occurring because McCain is solidifying the support of conservative women, which is something we saw last time McCain picked up in the polls. If McCain has a good day tomorrow, we will eliminate Obama’s good day three days ago, and we could really see some tightening in this rolling average. But for now, hold on.”"
Interesting that Paul says absolutely nothing positive about his own candidate. All he can do is spew his hate against Obama. As noted above “The grouchy looking one? Don’t ask, and don’t necessarily count on him to vote next week, either.
More John McCain supporters feel glum about the presidential campaign”
A great description of Paul.
“Well what do you expect when the well off go out and earn it themselves and many of the others you refer to don’t but simply expect to live off the government dole.”
This is laughable Frankfurtian bullsh*t for two reasons.
1) The knee jerk conservative assumption that those who have lots of money always have “earned” it, and the correlary that they are more “productive” than those who don’t earn as much money. This is nonsense. Wealth is not correlated with how hard people work. Are their people who live off of public assistance and do so to avoid work. Sure. On the other hand, there is also a reason for the term “the idle rich”. And many of the people who are on public assistance are also employed not only full time, but they have more than one job.
2) I read the link, and it was pretty much what I expected. The definition of “government dole” has expanded to include anyone who works a government job or works in a job that is dependent on government funding. So, military, fire fighters, law enforcement (including police, agents, district attorneys and their staff), anyone who contracts to builds infrastructure or maintain it, postal workers, air traffic controllers, teachers and education staff, community service providers who contract with county and state governments to provide services to people with developmental disabilities and mental illness, aircraft workers who work on military or goverenment contracts, and pretty much every private company that contracts with governments, not to mention those who hold political office (including those conservatives who rail against “wealth redistribution”) are all composed of people “on the government dole”, as well as those who receive assistance. And many of those who receive assistance are in fact employed, many by employers who expect the “gummit” to pay for the expenses that allow them to maintain their work force at low wages and no benefits (Wal-Mart anyone?). The idea that our economy is not as dependent on people “on the dole” as people who are not on it (and really, when one considers that those people who are “not” on the “dole” really are dependent upon government created infrastructure to maintain their own economic livlihood) is simply an absurd appeal to those who think in simplistic terms about private versus public. For example, the biggest employer in the outlying suburbs that are often the biggest bastion of coalition conservatism? The local school district. For example, three guesses who the biggest employer in Butler County, south central Kansas’ conservative stronghold, is?
Boxlock’s freeper link defines “government dole” so broadly that it is absurdly meaningless.
“Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.”
GOOD! Good riddance to the greedy bastards! One thing?
Forbid sale of their goods in the US.
XXX
“Bill Ayers was investigated and wasn’t convicted of anything yet you insist on calling him an “unrepentant terrorist””
I hope you are aware that Ayers was charged but never stood trial because “someone” didnt have a proper warrant during some of their surveilance.
Ayers own words from some of his own scribblings- “Guilty as hell, free as a bird”.
Morning Heckler,
Got anything to say about McCain being a traitor and collaborator?
“Here’s what I do know: I would give anything to rewrite history and make McCain president in 2000. But in 2008, I don’t think I can vote for him. Barack Obama is indeed the least experienced, least tested candidate in modern presidential history. But at least if he wins, I can be sure that the mobs who cry “terrorist” at the sound of Obama’s name will be kept far, far away from the White House.”
Great comments. One possible disagreement – I’m not sure Obama is any less experienced than JFK. But maybe that isn’t ‘modern history’ any more (showing my age)
#
XXX
Posted November 1, 2008 at 11:34 am | Permalink
Morning Heckler,
Got anything to say about McCain being a traitor and collaborator?
======================
Got five bucks I can borrow?
Have a couple of minutes I can spare.
“Why McCain is losing independents”
1.? Sarah Palin
2. Sarah Palin
3. His performance in the debates and his frequent episodes that bring to question his competence. Google things like “Joe the Biden”, “My fellow prisoners” and his pleading dodder about how “I can get bin Laden. I can do it. I know how to do it. And I’ll do it etc etc”
“McCain would be an outstanding president. In government, he has almost always had an instinct for the right cause. He has become an experienced legislative craftsman. He is stalwart against the country’s foes and cooperative with its friends. But he never escaped the straitjacket of a party that is ailing and a conservatism that is behind the times. And that’s what makes the final few days of this campaign so unspeakably sad.
David Brooks is a columnist with the New York Times News Service.”
Well said by a McCain fan.
#
Regular
Posted November 1, 2008 at 11:40 am | Permalink
Got five bucks I can borrow?
Have a couple of minutes I can spare.
_________________________________________________
Reg,
I followed you around for a while the other day.
Now I understand why you’re such a spiteful prick.
I voted!
I just couldn’t wait any longer. The lines moved quickly, took me a little over thirty minutes. There were 12 machines and another maybe 10 paper ballot “booths.”
I hope everyone votes, no matter who they choose. It’s our right and should be our responsibility.
Does everyone think it’s true half of the registered voters will have already cast their ballots by Tuesday?
I put my vote in the hands of the US postal service yesterday.
My choice was Senator Hillary Clinton.
But she was not the nominee.
No second place (BARELY) finisher has ever worked so hard for the party nominee as Senator Clinton has worked for Senator Obama. That was not lost on me. I hope it is not lost on Senator Obama and his supporters going forward.
My vote is for Senator Obama.
Permission to come aboard?
I’m listening to McCain campaigning on Fox. He said, “I’ve been tested, Senator Obama has not”.
Yeah, McCain has been tested and he failed. He sold America out. He collaborated.
On North Vietnamese radio, McCain said that American airmen had bombed churches, hospitals, schools, and orphanages.
McCain sets a hell of an example.
Some notes about McCain’s 2000 primary campaign.
‘THEY STILL SAY THEY MET THE MOST WONDERFUL MAN! The New York Times keeps telling the tale about the once-great Saint McCain:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh100808.shtml
“But at the same time, the greatest man in the world was doing these things himself:
* He was baldly misstating Bush’s budget proposal.
* He was running negatives ads which so offended Republican voters that he had to take them down — dramatically, of course.
* He was boiling over with obvious anger in the South Carolina debate — moderated by Larry King.
* He was lying about his actual views concerning the confederate flag. (Or so he later said.)
* He was paying large sums to two race men — presumably, to build his in-state conservative bona fides.
* He was making a series of bogus claims about negative flyers his campaign was distributing, in contravention of previous pledges.
* He was running anonymous phone calls in Michigan, painting Bush as anti-Catholic.
* He was lying, right in the face of the press, when asked if he was running those phone calls. (His campaign finally fessed up — the morning after the Michigan primary.)
* He was parading about, repeatedly saying he was going to “beat Al Gore like a drum” — even as the press corps praised him for his wonderfully uplifting politics.
* He was repeatedly telling a story about Gore and the Buddhist temple that was baldly inaccurate.”
The bar stool economics analogy so commonly used by conservatives is extremely misleading.
The reality is more something like this.
One thousand people are employees and members of a club (some are direct employees, others are contractors). All of them are paid, but they are paid very different wages. A percentage of those wages then has to be paid back for membership in the club, and for the pension. The club pro-rates their membership dues so that they are based on an employee/member’s ability to pay.
The four hundred lowest paid people’s wages are low enough so that they don’t have membership dues at all, although they still have to pay into the pension, and that payment cuts into their living wage substantially more than it does the higher paid people.
The next six hundred people do pay dues in proportion to their income. The difference in wages is highest among the top ten wage earners. The very top wage earner among the top 10 earners is paid several times the amount of the bottom 5 people among the top 10 wage earners (even though the combine amount earned by the bottom 9 wage earners is more in total than the amount earned by the top wage earner, the difference between what she earns personally and each of the others remains substantial). Because her wages are so high, her membership dues constitute a huge part of the dues collected from the point of view of the club, but those dues make a small impact on her lifestyle because the amount of money she takes in in wages alone allows her to access all of the benefits of club membership and still have several times more left over to invest, so between her investment income and her wage income the concept of economics as the science of scarcity is essentially meaningless. Also, the impact of the club dues collected from the top wage earner has a far, far greater impact on the club than it does on her. The reason the club collects so much money from the has less to do with her having to shoulder most of the burden, and more to do with the fact that since she earns so much more money, she contributes so much more money. Thus, the correlation between the percentage of how much money she makes in wages and the percentage of money collected by the club is actually quite weak, because one comparison is between percentage of wages earned by the wage earners, but the other is between amount of dues collected in absolute dollars.
The problem with the bar analogy is that is assumes that everyone in the group purchases the same amount of drinks. That’s not the case. It’s not even close.
BTW, my own personal stance is that at this time no one should be getting reductions in their membership dues. No one. And the Saturday night special should be allowed to lapse for anyone. But since the club manager is elected by the membership, this is not going to happen.
The Illegal Immigrant Independents are voting for Obama.
Obama supports illegal immigration – especially for his Auntie.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/01/barack-obamas-kenyan-aunt-living-illegally-boston/
Obama Says He Didn’t Know Aunt’s Illegal Status
The Illinois senator’s aunt has been residing in Boston public housing since her request for asylum was denied four years ago.
Barack Obama said Saturday he was unaware that one of his relatives from Kenya was living in the United States illegally and added that believes the appropriate laws should be followed.
The Associated Press reported Friday that Obama’s aunt had been instructed to leave the country four years ago by an immigration judge who rejected her request for asylum from her native Kenya.
The woman, Zeituni Onyango is living in public housing in Boston and is the half-sister of Obama’s late father .
“Senator Obama has no knowledge of her status but obviously believes that any and all appropriate laws be followed,” the Obama campaign said in a written statement given to FOX News.
Onyango, 56, referred to as “Aunti Zeituni” in Obama’s memoir, was instructed to leave the United States by a U.S. immigration judge who denied her asylum request, a person familiar with the matter told the AP late Friday. This person spoke on condition of anonymity because no one was authorized to discuss Onyango’s case.
Click here for photos.
Obama is LYING AGAIN!
Obama says his AUNTIE should be DEPORTED!
RIGHT!!!!!!!!
On the topic, the information about where independents are breaking is so contradictory between reputable sources it is meaningless. But unless the independents break huge for McCain over Obama, the impact on the election will not be very huge. So far, the suggestion is that the break is probably either even or close for McCain.
BTW, I’ve already voted too.
XXX
Posted November 1, 2008 at 11:43 am | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted November 1, 2008 at 11:40 am | Permalink
Got five bucks I can borrow?
Have a couple of minutes I can spare.
_________________________________________________
Reg,
I followed you around for a while the other day.
Now I understand why you’re such a spiteful prick
————————–
Followed me around?
Where was I yesterday then.
Or do you mean your reference to McCain as a traitor?
So Aunti Zeituni has been living in Public Housing, PAID FOR BY US CITIZEN TAXPAYERS, for 4 years as an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT!!!
No wonder McCain is losing the Independent Illegal Immigrant voters!
Surprise!
“I’m going to the Middle East,” Dramesi says. “Turkey, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran.”
“Why are you going to the Middle East?” McCain asks, dismissively.
“It’s a place we’re probably going to have some problems,” Dramesi says.
“Why? Where are you going to, John?”
“Oh, I’m going to Rio.”
“What the hell are you going to Rio for?”
McCain, a married father of three, shrugs.
“I got a better chance of getting laid.”
Dramesi, who went on to serve as chief war planner for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and commander of a wing of the Strategic Air Command, was not surprised. “McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man,” Dramesi says today. “But he’s still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in.”
Sen. John McCain.
‘The Power and The Story’
(12/13/99)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992801-8,00.html
“A presidential candidate is not supposed to tell you about the rules he broke or the strippers he dated, or the time he arrived so drunk that he fell through the screen door of the young lady he was wooing.”
#
Regular
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:05 pm | Permalink
Followed me around?
Where was I yesterday then.
Or do you mean your reference to McCain as a traitor?
_________________________________________________
I didn’t say “yesterday”, did I?
Try to pay closer attention.
Ya know, with Bill Clinton, you Libs Loved all the stories of his foolin around.
Why isn’t that a good thing when the horndog is a Republican?
Heck,
McCain’s stripper stories are a whole lot more interesting then the fatgirl Lewinsky or big nosed Paula Jones stories.
What is Obama a lilly white angel? Never chased around the poontang before or after he was married?
Maybe he needs to come out of the closet.
I’d like to get the explicit details of the Palin infedelity! Maybe she’ll write a book after the election.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
What is Obama a lilly white angel? Never chased around the poontang before or after he was married?
Maybe he needs to come out of the closet.
_________________________________________________
JimJohnson,
It may be hard for you to understand, but there are people who are moral and don’t fool around. Doesn’t mean they’re gay, either.
Your attitude is interesting coming from a conservative.
Ok, XXX,
I’ll remember this. Obama is moral and doesn’t fool around.
Not like his Daddy at all. Not like his half-Auntie or the rest of his family either.
Yes, Obama is a moral Angel.
Wait! You Dems don’t like morality forced on you by Government!
Was it ‘moral’ for Obama do use Cocaine?
Did Obama buy and sell Cocaine, and if so, was that ‘moral’?
Lying, is it ‘moral’ to lie?
Obama never lies?
Right…..
He’s a frickin angel.
If Obama didn’t buy or sell Cocaine, then how did he pay for the Cocaine he used?
Maybe he sold his body for drugs.
Was that ‘moral’?
JimJohnson, was it moral for Mccain to be a collaborator?
Was it moral for him to sell out American troops in Vietnam?
If Obama was Gay or Bi-sexual, XXX, would that be a problem?
I don’t know XXX, I wonder what you would do after being tortured for 5 years.
Would you do the moral thing?
Agnatha, the jawless fish, Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:01 pm |
“The bar stool economics analogy so commonly used by conservatives is extremely misleading.
The reality is more something like this…….
Followed by absolute drivel.
Oh, and McCain didn’t sell out.
Jane Fonda sold out American troops – without being tortured.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Permalink
Wait! You Dems don’t like morality forced on you by Government!
__________________________________________________
Do you like having morality forced on you by government?
Do you think Obama LIED about not knowing his Auntie was in the USA at all or illegally?
Do you think Obama LIED about not knowing his brother was living in a shack in Kenya earning $20 per year?
Ignorance is his excuse?
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:51 pm | Permalink
Oh, and McCain didn’t sell out.
Jane Fonda sold out American troops – without being tortured.
__________________________________________________
“McCain didn’t sell out”
History and documentation say different.
Nobody ever saw McCain being tortured. We only have his word for that.
Why xxx, is Obama gonna lock up our zippers and force morality on us?
No xxx, you have the word of McCain and his fellow American prisoners.
But just keep making siht up.
Kansas is voting for McCain anyway.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
If Obama was Gay or Bi-sexual, XXX, would that be a problem?
_________________________________________________
Not particularly, but I’m not the one who made the comment about coming out of the closet.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
I don’t know XXX, I wonder what you would do after being tortured for 5 years.
Would you do the moral thing?
__________________________________________________
I was fortunate not to wind up in that position, so I don’t really know.
But the vast majority of POWs did “the moral thing”. Too bad McCain didn’t.
When you repubs are feeling at your lowest, here’s a little diddy I wrote for a quick pick me upper:
Obama loves me,
this I know,
because the libs(short for liberators)
told me so!
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink
No xxx, you have the word of McCain and his fellow American prisoners.
But just keep making siht up.
_________________________________________________
McCain’s fellow prisoners say he was a collaborator.
Only good thing came out of songbirds captivity, is that servicemen that couldn’t hold out were no longer held accountable.
Rule change!
Just what exactly xxx do you claim McCain did?
Did he serve the USNavy and fight in combat?
Did he not serve and do Cocaine instead?
So Phantom, were you a POW?
XXX wasn’t either.
I think he served and simultaneously did coke.
Did McCain throw away his medals, then display them later on his office wall?
No, McCain wasn’t a Community Organizer, and no, McCain does not constantly attack the 2nd Amendment of the USA.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:08 pm | Permalink
Did McCain throw away his medals, then display them later on his office wall?
__________________________________________________
No, he just collaborated with the North Vietnamese and sold all of us who served in Vietnam out.
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
Just what exactly xxx do you claim McCain did?
________________________________________________
What part of “he was a collaborator” don’t you understand.
They don’t call him “Songbird” for nothing.
XXX: You can prove none of what you contend. And you have admitted that you do not know if you would break under what McCain went through. Not only that, you don’t even know not McCain went through, or whether it was more than other POWs because of his father’s status.
XXX, you also seem to have forgotten that McCain could have been released after just one year if he had just gone. But he refused to leave ahead of those who had been there longer.
It seems like you are putting politics ahead of truth in your statements about McCain.
outlander
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
“XXX: You can prove none of what you contend.”
_________________________________________________
Outlander, do a simple Google search. Try “McCain Collaborator” or “Songbird McCain”.
Proving what I said would be like re-inventing the wheel.
________________________________________________
“And you have admitted that you do not know if you would break under what McCain went through.”
________________________________________________
That’s the honest truth. I think I could have endured, but you never know till you go through it. However, the overwhelming majority of POWs did their duty and didn’t collaborate.
______________________________________________
“Not only that, you don’t even know not McCain went through, or whether it was more than other POWs because of his father’s status.”
_______________________________________________
All I know is, nobody ever saw McCain tortured.
_______________________________________________
“XXX, you also seem to have forgotten that McCain could have been released after just one year if he had just gone. But he refused to leave ahead of those who had been there longer.”
________________________________________________
The POWs that got “early outs” were the known traitors and collaborators. By waiting to get out with everybody else, McCain got a free pass for being a collaborator.
Jimbo,
Five years of torture? If memory serves, McCane was singing his little heart out on Radio Hanoi in under a week after he crashed. The only reason he wasn’t court martialed and hung on his return was that his daddy was an Admiral.
xxx makes no sense: “The POWs that got “early outs” were the known traitors and collaborators. By waiting to get out with everybody else, McCain got a free pass for being a collaborator.”
So McCain did NOT get an early out, yet xxx still calls McCain a collaborator.
AND, xxx says there were not witnesses to the torture, so where are the witnesses to the collaboration?
AND, xxx cannot say what exactly McCain is being accused of doing. Heck xxx, you are collaborating with JimJohnson right now!
“Dornan then offered another interesting explanation why McCain refused an offer by the North Vietnamese to be released. Dornan said those released first were collaborators, which would have ended McCain’s military career and hurt the Navy, where his father commanded the Pacific fleet.
“Nobody takes that one step beyond that,” Dornan said, speaking of McCain’s refusal to be released. “If Admiral John McCain’s son had accepted this princely status and come home in 1967, while others sat there for five years, what would the Navy have done with the son of an admiral who opted to get special treatment and come home? No Navy career. No House seat. No Senate seat. It would have been the end of his career.”
http://www.alternet.org/election08/99663/republicans_allege_mccain_covered_up_his_collaboration_with_the_north_vietnamese_while_a_pow/
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:55 pm | Permalink
AND, xxx cannot say what exactly McCain is being accused of doing.
________________________________________________
Again JimJohnson, what part of collaboration don’t you understand?
“McCain claims that he was tortured while in custody. There were no other American witnesses to this torture and some former POWs doubt that it happened at all. Former North Vietnamese military
personnel have also insisted that McCain was never tortured. In fact, McCain himself admitted in a 1973 interview with the magazine US News and World Report that he volunteered to give military information in return for medical treatment, even before being subjected to any torture.”
http://www.forandagainst.com/articles/McCain_s_Military_Record_Shows_He_Is_Unfit_To_Be_President
BS xxx.
Keep spilling your propaganda.
Yawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn………………………
Jimbo,
“AND, xxx says there were not witnesses to the torture, so where are the witnesses to the collaboration?”
The witnesses to the collaboration were everyone tuned in to Radio Hanoi. Further, the classified information he divulged, reportedly in exchange for the services of prostitutes (who no doubt tortured him), got a lot of his fellow pilots killed or captured. He should have been hung!
“On March 25, 1999, two POWs, Ted Guy and Gordon Larson, told the Phoenix New Times they could not guarantee McCain had been tortured before his interrogations. Larson told the New Times, “Between the two of us, it is our belief, and to the best of our knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that camp [known as 'The Plantation']. My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted’s, he was not physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people were released from.”
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 2:10 pm | Permalink
BS xxx.
Keep spilling your propaganda.
Yawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn………………………
__________________________________________________
In other words, you lose.
Oh what did you win XXX?
A date with JR?
No thanks. You can have him.
BlueJay – WELCOME ABOARD!!!!!
Remember, Obama was not my first choice either (Richardson was). However, you will note that he has Richardson, the Clintons, and the rest of our team on board. We are united and voting for our team.
I am reminded of Caucus night. I spoke with friends who were going into the ‘other room’ and we were 100% in agreement that “tomorrow we must be together”. It is now tomorrow.
“outlander
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
XXX: You can prove none of what you contend”
According to Paul and Regular that doesn’t matter. You must prove the negative.
#
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
Oh what did you win XXX?
A date with JR?
No thanks. You can have him.
________________________________________________
The loser responds at 3rd grade level.
Hey, I was gone and unable to follow.
Did all those liberal socialists that were concerned and talking about JR’s health insurance every do what they said they were going to do and pitch in and buy it for him?
I’d be pretty confident in placing a bet on that one, ha!
Hey Box! I don’t think they did. I’m also concerned that they didn’t redistribute the halloween candy according to socialist values last night.
Sad state of affairs. So many handout programs, so little money.
Hey XXX! Was that 3rd grade level? At least unlike you, he didn’t call a political candidate for the VP a c*nt – like you did.
What level was that post, heh?
Republican National Committe THROWS MCCAIN UNDER THE BUS!!!
POLK CITY, Florida (CNN) — At a boisterous Sarah Palin rally in Polk City, Florida on Saturday afternoon, one name was surprisingly absent from the campaign décor — John McCain’s.
Looking around the Fantasy of Flight aircraft hangar where the rally took place, one could see all the usual reminders that it was a pro-McCain event. There were two large “Country First” banners hung on the walls along with four enormous American flags meant to conjure the campaign’s underlying patriotic theme. Many of the men and women in the audience wore McCain hats and t-shirts.
But on closer inspection, the GOP nominee’s name was literally nowhere to be found on any of the official campaign signage distributed to supporters at the event.
The other sign handed out to supporters read “Florida is Palin Country,” but those signs were neither paid for by the Republican National Committee nor the McCain campaign. In small print, the signs were stamped with the line “Paid for and authorized by Putnam for Congress” — as in, the re-election campaign of Florida congressman Adam Putnam, whose district skirts Polk City.
In fact, Putnam’s name was considerably more prominent than was McCain’s — his campaign had placed a number of large “Putnam for Congress” banners around the event site.
mxyzptlk – saw a comment last night about “precriminations” in the McCain campaign. The finger-pointing is happening even before the election. My prediction is still that we will see Palin hosting a talk show – probably on FAUX.
Her constituency in Alaska know much more about her since her foray into national politics. It will be interesting to see if she runs again and whether she is reelected. First, she has a few investigations to make it through.
Palin talks hunting, politics in prank call with notorious Quebec comedy duo
MONTREAL – A Quebec comedy duo notorious for prank calls to celebrities and heads of state has reached Sarah Palin, convincing the Republican vice-presidential nominee she was speaking with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
In the roughly six-minute telephone interview released Saturday, Palin and the pranksters known as the Masked Avengers discuss politics, pundits, and the perils of hunting with Vice-President Dick Cheney.
“We have such great respect for you, John McCain and I, we love you,” Palin is heard to gush to comedian Marc-Antoine Audette, masquerading as Sarkozy.
Palin doesn’t seem to realize she’s being tricked until Audette tells her at the end of the interview.
“Oh, have we been pranked?” she says. Seconds later, Palin’s aide can be heard before the line goes dead.
Throughout the conversation, Audette drops plenty of clues that something’s amiss.
He identifies French singer and actor Johnny Hallyday as his special adviser to the U.S., singer Stef Carse as Canada’s prime minister and Quebec comedian and radio host Richard Z. Sirois as the provincial premier.
more at:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/USElection/2008/11/01/7275526-cp.html
“Dirty Chicago Machine”
And just how can you know anything about the Chicago Machine Paul? According to yu since I am no longer a Sedgwick County Republican that I could not know anything about why my incumbent County Commissioner got defeated in the primary – even though I know both him and his challenger personally. So, since you have never been involved in Chicago politics – in any of the THREE political parties there you cannot be knowledgable on that system.
There is an old joke in Chicago: Where do they put the Reform Democrats in the St. Patricks Day Parade? Right behind the horses – with shovels and brooms. That strange dynamic sank Adlai Stevenson in 1986 when the Democratic Party self-destructed in their state primary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adlai_Stevenson_III
I remember warning some Reform Democratic friends that this was happening – they just couldn’t bring themselves to believe that could happen.
Chicago-area politics have always been Byzantine. The only people the Machine Democrats hate more than Republicans are the Reform Democrats.
“Agnatha, the jawless fish, Posted November 1, 2008 at 12:01 pm |
“‘The bar stool economics analogy so commonly used by conservatives is extremely misleading.
The reality is more something like this…….’
“Followed by absolute drivel.
Translation: I’ve got nothing but ad hominem insults. Certainly it is beyond my ability to illustrate why it is drivel, so I will simply call it drivel because it must be.
Really Boxlock, you embarrass yourself.
We saw this move last night and thought it was great! I would highly recommend that anyone go see it and soon.
http://www.fireproofthemovie.com/
Dick Cheney endorses McCain/Palin
At a rally in Pueblo, Obama lashed out at the Cheney endorsement.
“I’d like to congratulate Sen. McCain on this endorsement, because he really earned it. That endorsement didn’t come easy,” he said. “George Bush may be in an undisclosed location now, but Dick Cheney’s out there on the campaign trail because he’d be delighted to pass the baton to John McCain.”
“He knows that with John McCain, you get a twofer: George Bush’s economic policy and Dick Cheney’s foreign policy, Obama continued. “And that is a risk we cannot afford to take.”
An amusing observation: This thread was headlined by columns written by two FANS of John McCain. People who have SUPPORTED McCain in the past. And, as David Brooks said – unspeakably sad. But the comments from the Right? Attack the “MSM” as though it is a left-wing monolith.
Looking at “what might have been”: suppose McCain had chosen someone like Hagel or Snow as a running mate? I’m sure that would not have “energized the base” but might it have enabled him to stake a claim to the middle?
In a way this election reminds me of Humphrey back in 1968. A legacy of an incumbent president who was widely hated – in that case even more within his party than elsewhere. The candidate trying to divorce himself from his president. And, aferwards, there was a lot of internecine bloodshed within the Party.
Look for Mitt Romney to pick up the pieces. Unfortunately, the Republican “base” is bigoted and will not tolerate a Mormon. So 20-25% of the Republican party will be gone.
Good for us, sucks to be them.
“Throughout the conversation, Audette drops plenty of clues that something’s amiss.
He identifies French singer and actor Johnny Hallyday as his special adviser to the U.S., singer Stef Carse as Canada’s prime minister and Quebec comedian and radio host Richard Z. Sirois as the provincial premier.
“We should go hunting together,” Palin offers when Audette professes a love of hunting – or, more precisely, killing animals. “We can have a lot of fun together while we’re getting work done. We could kill two birds with one stone.”
Audette then jokes that they shouldn’t bring Cheney on the hunt, referring to the 2006 incident in which the vice-president shot and injured a friend while hunting quail.
“I’ll be a careful shot,” responds Palin, who praises Sarkozy throughout the call.
“I look forward to working with you and getting to meet you personally – and your beautiful wife, oh my goodness,” she says.
“You’ve added a lot of energy to your country with that beautiful family of yours.”"
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/USElection/2008/11/01/7275526-cp.html
—
Jesus, this happened TODAY.
I guess the problem is that, while Alaska butts up against Canada, her windows only look out on Russia.
Which is obviously useless now, since I’m sure if a couple canuck pranksters can get THIS on tape TODAY then Putin would probably own her lock, stock, and barrel within what, 90 seconds? Tops?
Yeah, I’d say Sarah’ll be ready for the national stage ’round about 2050 or so, at this pace.
“I wanted to see how (Palin) was on an intellectual level,” Audette said, comparing the latest prank to the duo’s crank call with pop idol Britney Spears.
“You can see that she’s, well, not really brilliant.”
—
Yes, I can see it now:
Sarah Palin = Britney Spears.
I’ll give Palin some extra credit because she’s got some years on Britney…but otherwise the comparison is WAAAAY too close to the mark.
Way.
The prank recording doesn’t seem to work online. I guess the Republicans/Palin don’t believe in the 1st Amendment.
Listen to Sarah Palin make a complete fool of herself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwzgF0s3Dzg
Whoppers of 2008.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_whoppers_of_2008_–_the_sequel.html
More bullsh*t puncturing from factcheck.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/unethical.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_license_to_kill.html
Thanks Linda. The final nail in the coffin I hope.
What a bimbo!
And more bunk exposed.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/more_social_security_bunk.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/same_old_claims_in_another_language.html
“You know, we have a lot in common because from my house I can see Belgium.”
—
And that was like clue #100 that the caller is cuckoo as cocoa puffs.
LOL
I’m positive the fault lies with the Canadian comedians! They should never have called her and attempted that hoax. She is just like a regular American and can’t be expected to be smart enough to check out the facts! She is innocent! She is, after all, important enough to have world leaders call her to chat!
/sarcasm
And remember linda – she can SEE Russia from her porch!
Hope the Republican posters here at WEBlog are correct when they say Sarah Palin is the future of their party.
Shouldn’t we be talking about the issues instead of something as silly as a prank call?
Oh wait, that is exactly what you liberals say anytime someone brings up something against Obama.
Hypocrites.
Oh Linda, that’s kinda catty.
Funny.
But catty, Meow
But really funny.
And nation, isn’t it your nap time?
Dennis
nation = Nathan
can’t type
It ain’t catty if the dang GOP VPOTUS candidate lacks the brains to hang up on a prank caller.
In fact, this goes right to the heart of what’s been a major claim by McCain, that Palin is ready to serve as VPOTUS.
It may have fooled you, or us, but it damn sure should NEVER have fooled Palin.
Correction: a prank call from a couple Canadians should never, EVER fool the Vice President of the United States of America.
However, it fooled Sarah Palin.
Does that help?!?
I MUST listen to that later when there is less traffic.
Palin is the gift that keeps giving. It’s like Christmas every day!
Th REAL fun part is, the cons are too stupid to see what a liability she is.
Biden had sense enough to walk away from a couple reporters who asked if Obama is a socialist.
Palin snickered through a phone call with a couple Canadian pranksters (who, incidentally, take a run at fooling American political bigwigs every day…and she should have, or could have, known that very easily since Alaska abuts Canada).
There’s your stark choice, independents.
Can’t Palin see Quebec from her front door?
Pedant,
If Palin triped on a sidewalk Sunday morning you would be saying that a VP shouldn’t ever trip on a sidewalk.
Does that help?!?
BlueJay,
Meanwhile Obama is hiding Biden in the back of the bus so he can’t ever make another mistake like he routinely does whenever he opens his mouth.
Listen to the youtube file, Nathan, and get back.
4 days from election day, everybody and their dog questions whether Palin is qualified to be POTUS via succession as VPOTUS, and this is NOT relevant?
Please.
The REAL fun part is, the cons are too stupid to see what a liability she is.
“I’ve had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking,”
Yep, anyone who would be so dumb to say something that stupid shouldn’t be VP.
Meanwhile Obama is hiding Biden in the back of the bus
Do all marines lie like you do. Nathaniel? Biden has been on the road and speaking for several days. I guess lying is all you have left.
Bearing false witness is a sin but maybe not for the witless.
But Obama is 28 years younger than McCain.
The odds of Biden being POTUS via succession are far, far less than those for Palin.
Try again.
Given McCain’s age, this is relevant as hell.
Pedant,
I did. As I said. If Palin triped on a sidewalk you would be on here saying that a VP shouldn’t ever trip on a sidewalk…
Nathaniel
Posted November 1, 2008 at 6:51 pm | Permalink
Pedant,
I did. As I said. If Palin triped on a sidewalk you would be on here saying that a VP shouldn’t ever trip on a sidewalk…
—
No, tripping on a sidewalk is irrelevant. Falling for a pratfall like this though, when you’re governor of Alaska which is adjacent to Canada — and you’ve already claimed that Russia’s existence as adjacent to Alaska is a reason that you’d use US FP as a break on Putin — this is just the latest piece of evidence negating Palin as a serious VPOTUS candidate.
Also, I don’t hold much faith in you as a soothsayer. No offense.
All that said, I would be interested in your own interpretation of Palin’s end of this phone conversation, Nathan.
Do you think it irrelevant? Do you think she should have just assumed from the git-go that it was taped? Do you think she displayed any ignorance at all of France? Canada? Alaska? Russia?
If Joe Biden had been on the business end of this call, what would you think about him as a candidate for VPOTUS?
Campaign Events: November 1, 2008
Joe Biden
* 10 a.m., Rally in Evansville, IN.
* 4:15 p.m., Rally in Marion, OH.
* Time N/A, Rally in Bowling Green, OH.
That was just today. You need his schedule for the past week or tomorrow? “The google.”
And a candidate for VP who is dumber than a box of rocks and sets women’s rights back a century is an issue for me!
“Sarah Palin’s record is anti-woman. Feminism is not simply about achieving the power and status typically held by men. It’s about protecting and supporting the rights of women of all classes, races, cultures, and beliefs. Palin’s record and beliefs do not align with this. She was chosen by John McCain specifically because he believes that American women will vote for any female candidate regardless of their qualifications. He is wrong.”
#
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:06 pm | Permalink
And a candidate for VP who is dumber than a box of rocks and sets women’s rights back a century is an issue for me!
====================
hahaha!
I don’t think you should be comparing IQ’s lindainks. :D
Oh BOY!
Everyone?
You must, MUST listen to that prank call on airhead Palin!
GAWD, if I could get the number, I’d call up and claim to be the King of Shangri la.
THIS will be material on Monday for Olberman, Maddow, The Daily show, you name it. The fun part is, they’ll figure out what Palin and the aid are saying in the background at the end of the call! THAT’S what I wanna hear.
Done. Palin is done.
yeah, it’s totally viral, no doubt about it.
By this time tomorrow, I’m thinking Palin will be wishing she hadn’t decided years ago that educamacation is overrated, like totally.
I think McCain may even lose the independent vote in Arizona over this.
Rage?
Odd.
The Liberals come on here almost daily with something new to go after Palin on that has nothing to do with her policies (yet they cry about that when we go after Obama) and every time they claim that Palin is done.
Yet, here she is and here is the McCain campaign gaining ground on Obama.
And here is Linda with an extrmely thought provoking comment:
“And a candidate for VP who is dumber than a box of rocks and sets women’s rights back a century is an issue for me!”
EYEROLL
I guess David Schuster is gonna go network with this in a few minutes. MSNBC I think.
They will FILET her with this on the Monday shows.
Here’s the numbers from today’s Wichita Eagle:
Statewide Party Affiliations:
Republicans 771,019
Democrats 484,707
Unaffiliated 482,883
How many of those unaffiliated vote for the “R” or the “D” candidate. I can hardly wait to find out!
I’m not surprised that Reg and Nathan don’t get it…after all their guy thought by just picking a woman as his running mate, he could get the women’s vote…damn, you guys are so dumb.
Mary,
I must have missed where McCain ever made any such comment for why he picked Palin.
Yeah, if we are dumb, then you are slobering on yourself mentally retarded.
Big dumb dogs…
Big dumb retards…
He didn’t have to give the reason, it so too obvious…unfortunatly for him it backfired.
Mary,
How is it so obvious? I can think of several reasons for why he picked her and thinking that he would get ‘more of’ the woman vote is only one of many.
Admit it Nathan. You have fantasys about you and Sarah doing weird and kinky things with your guns, don’t you?
Why else would he have picked someone who obviously was so unqualified? She’s a fundamentalist and female…and he was too stupid to see that the two wouldn’t jive except to a small minority of women.
“Admit it Nathan. You have fantasys about you and Sarah doing weird and kinky things with your guns, don’t you?”
Oh Mary please warn me before yopu do that again. I have to wipe the ‘puter screen off. I think I can giggle on that for a couple of days.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink
I’m not surprised that Reg and Nathan don’t get it…after all their guy thought by just picking a woman as his running mate, he could get the women’s vote…damn, you guys are so dumb.
——————————–
I suppose the entire voting population of Alaska that voted Palin in as Governor is dumb as well.
Does this attitude remind anyone of Murtha’s remark on “Western Pennsylvanian’s are racists and rednecks.”
It sure does it for me.
I was watching Palin speak the other day.
She IS getting better at it. BUT?
She has no working style of her own. She has lifted some of Senator Clinton’s methods, like pointing to certain members of the crowd to acknowledge them.
Mary is right. McCain picked Palin mostly because of the success of Senator Clinton. But Palin is NO Hillary Clinton. She’s not even a good knockoff.
LOL
Jesus. Happy Halloween everybody!
“Hey babe.”
“Hey.”
“Howzabout you and me find a place to clean my 45?”
“Inches or girth?”
“Gun. Duh.”
“Find a bigger caliber and we’ll talk, sport.”
I’m sure this could get funnier given enough time.
Come on, Nathan…do you honestly believe she would make a good president if something happened to him? Remember it’s a sin to lie, so tell the truth.
“…a small minority of women.”
Who are obviously still asking the men in thir lives what to think.
Mary,
Sorry, the point of having a discussion with you has gone by after the crap you just posted.
I would hope that a grown woman such as yourself might actually feel ashamed at what you just said to me, but I won’t hold my breath.
Next time my father and I drive by, why don’t you just flip us off so that we know how you really feel instead of acting like a nice lady, waving, and smiling.
I don’t even want to think about WHY you’re wiping off your computer screen, Nathan…eeeewwwwww!
I’m heading out to feed the Horses and Animals now. So you have your chance. I should be driving by in about 30-40 minutes.
Answer the question, Nathan…quit with the distractions….do you really want her to be prez if McCain has a stroke?
BTW, I’m only waving at your dad.
Franklin,
Re: your 6:19am posting: I watched the entire meeting between Obama & Joe the plumber. Joe walked up to Obama and asked his questions about Obama’s tax plans. Obama answered the question as he has outlined in several speeches at several locations: people making over $250,000/yr. would pay the same tax that they paid during the ’90’s which is about 3% higher than it is now. Persons under $250,000 will not have a tax increase under his plan.
When Obama talked to Joe, McCain/Palin pounced on their own interpretaion of Obama referring to spreading the wealth. If you go to U-Tube, you can see and hear it all yourself. Obama was encouraging Joe to buy or start a business; he then went on to say that would mean that Joe would hire some employees and purchase some supplies. It was in that sense that Obama mentioned that would spread the wealth around. It had nothing to do with taking money away from Joe and giving it to somebody else.
He runs from the room when cornered!
I’m going to bed, I spent the day spraying my dining room ceiling and now my back is killing me, so I won’t be on the porch when you drive by, Nathan.
Good night, Mary. I hope you rest well and your back feels better by morning!
Mary,
You truly are a sick woman. Next time you come out to talk, have the guts to say this crap to my face, in front of my dad, or even my mom.
Then they will see what a complete lack of character you have.
Bookmark it or print it out so Mommy and Daddy can see it the minute they return!
Linda,
And you wonder why I call you a hypocrite everytime you try to act like you are so innocent on this blog?
“You truly are a sick woman”
Notice how defensive he gets when I talk about his “girlfriend”? LOL!
Good nite!
janeeyre, hi! Some of us watched the entire interview, some never will. They only want to know just so much and nothing more. Isn’t it a great country?! We all have the freedom to seek the truth. Just a few more days. I’m cautiously optimistic. If it all turns out that Obama is our next President of the United States of America I might celebrate ALL of next week. ;-)
I would expect this kind of behavior if Obama was losing.
But your candidate is up in the polls and appears to have a great chance at winning the election. Not only that, but you have a chance at getting over 59 seats in the Senate and even more seats in the house.
Locally, in Kansas, we stand to lose 4 Senate Seats to the Democrats and about a dozen seats in the house.
Yet you liberals are being even more mean and nasty than ever before.
I would think that you would be a bit more happy and not so crude.
PS…he never DID answer my question!
Whatever Mary.
You must be so proud.
Mary,
Why would I bother to respond to your question as if you hadn’t said half the sick perverted crap you just did?
Still won’t answer the question!
Mary,
Still a sick pervert with no character!
Nathaniel ASKS questions, he doesn’t answer them. It’s his MO. ;-)
Don’t you think you’re overreacting just a little, Nathan?
Why don’t you answer the question?
Answer the question Nathan!
My mom says Olberman is on tonight at 9.
Any guesses what HE will be talking about?
Beer run to get ready for that one!
I think Nathaniel, you might see where I’m coming from a lot of times.
Duh Libs can’t stand it when it gets handed back to them.
I think Palin would be as effective a President as Harry Truman, the hat maker, livestock breeder and high school graduate from Missouri.
I think it’s Nathan who can’t handle it when things are “handed back” to him…he trys his best to put people on the defense…but can’t take it when he’s cornered, so he runs off or uses distactons…like his phony “outrage” over a joke I made.
God, you are so predictable, Nathan!
Palin isn’t nearly as smart as Harry Truman…that’s a stretch to say she’d be as effective as him.
Pwned!
Palin was punked and pwned by a coupla Canadian disc jockeys!
Biden said that the same people who vetted Palin must be screening her calls.
Ha!
Should US pull out of Chicago? Think about it…
Pull out of Iraq or
Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago ?
Body count in the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq .
Chicago…. Who Runs it?
Senators: Barack Obama and Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson Jr.
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan
Illinois Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike, see above)
Chicago Mayor: Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)
Leadership in Illinois? ……. all democrats
Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they’re all blaming each other!
Can’t blame Republicans ……..there aren’t any!
State pension fund: $44 billion in debt …….worst in country!
Chicago’s Cook County sales tax: 10.25%, highest in country.
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois
and he’s gonna “fix” Washington politics for us!
Obama took a call from the very same pranksters, yet for some reason, he couldn’t hear the caller:
http://michypa.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/obama_phone.jpg
Ya, Chicago baby.
Great safe place to live in da USA.
One of the best of the 57 states.
“Body count in the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq.”
You know, if I ever start corrupting your name like others have here, I think I am going to call you “Box of Rocks”.
So, only 221 people were killed in the entire country of Iraq in the last 6 months (and I am curious where you got this, you did not attribute this source, was it a spam mail)?
American deaths over the last 6 months were actually a good deal lower than the figure you posted (126), which makes me suspect that your source is referencing older information. BTW, I am as glad to see that as anyone, and may that death toll continue to decline.
http://icasualties.org/oif/
However, the body count for Iraqi citizens, while also a good deal lower than it used to be, is still considerably higher than the military death toll.
Going by the averages listed here (which of course are averages, not actual figures) the Iraqi death toll for the last 6 months is somewhere around 4,758. Of course, this comes from calculating the rate of death from the averages listed in the source I link to below, but unless there has been an incredible decline in the last 6 months in comparison with a much higher average in the first 4 months of the year, this figure is probably not that far off from the mark.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
4,758 is considerably higher than 221. Unless the Chicago figure is calculated from say, police officers versus the entire citizenry, or there are as many military in Iraq as there are residents of Chicagoland, there really is no comparison. The source of these comparisons is looking at military deaths in Iraq versus total violent deaths in the city of Chicago to argue that Chicago is more dangerous than Iraq. That is the very essence of a red herring comparison.
And that is being kind.
And once again, Boxlock uncritically posts claims without the most basic critical evaluation.
Re: Jimbo
DNFTRT
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:21 pm | Permalink
Obama took a call from the very same pranksters, yet for some reason, he couldn’t hear the caller:
http://michypa.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/obama_phone.jpg
—
heheheh!
Another embarrassing moment for Obama:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
True Americans would at least hold their hand over their heart during the National Anthem.
First of all, I am not laughing at your “joke” Mary.
Second, I have no reason to hide from such a question that you asked me. It is rather absurd to think I was.
I have always believed in following certain rules in a discussion. One of them being that you do not move forward in a discussion if the person you are arguing with has made a point you don’t agree with or that has not been resolved.
You kept making sick and perverted comments about me which have not been resolved. I seen no point in answering your question as if you didn’t say those things.
Of course I think that Palin is ready to be President if something were to happen to McCain.
Third, I find it rather funny that the two people who refuse to meet in person are the one sitting here claiming some sort of victory for backing me in a corner.
I have offered several times to talk with you in person Mary on certain issues. Linda, well, she is still scared of me.
So Obama is a false American because he “refuses” to hold his hand over his heart?
LOL
Yall are just utterly clueless, you know that’s why yall’s Palin’s ticket, including McCain, is gonna lose, right?
Yall might get a headstart on 2012 by getting clear a definition of patriotism. Just a sugggestion…although it may grow in its palliative power come next Wednesday.
Check back then, ok? :D
“Really Boxlock, you embarrass yourself.”
—-the jawless fish Agnatha
No, you embarrass me as well as yourself, I am simply embarrassed for you.
I noticed you did not, could not, even respond to my post which destroyed your argument.
Though that is nothing to brag over I guess as you argument was so weak and unsupported.
Maybe you should retire for a few days and possibly some will forget the a$$ you make of yourself.
“Linda, well, she is still scared of me.” — Nathaniel
—–
That would be true. I don’t think mentally ill people should have access to guns. And when I know in advance a mentally ill person has a gun, I’ll avoid being in the vicinity.
Boxlock
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:53 pm | Permalink
… you did not, could not, even respond to my post which destroyed your argument.
—
Forgive us, we mere mortal Americans, for doubt sets in our hearts right about here.
Exactly here, actually. :wink:
Yall have some SERIOUS work to do if you want to attract, rather than repel, voters, yall know that right?
“No, you embarrass me as well as yourself, I am simply embarrassed for you.
I noticed you did not, could not, even respond to my post which destroyed your argument.”
Please link to the post you are babbling about. I have seen no substantive reply from you to any argument I have made in this thread.
Or do you think that calling someone’s post “drivel” constitutes destroying someone’s argument?
Linda,
And what proof do you have that I am mentally ill?
Not only do I have a gun, but I have a license issued by the state to carry it concealed as well.
On top of that, I carry a gun at my job in the Marine Corps.
I also teach others about Marksmanship and Weapons Safety/Handling.
I am a volunteer hunters safety Instructor.
I have taught children, my friends, college students, people at church, and thousands of Marines/Sailors how to shoot and do so safely.
I think your claim that I am mentally ill is not only wrong, but obviously so. Your claim to be afraid of me? Well that is because you are irrational and have no sense to look at the facts.
Aw come on Pendent, a 5 year old knows to hold their hand over their heart during a national anthem.
What’s wrong with the guy?
Yup, I know you voted for him, and so I hope you can be proud of your choice 4 years from now. The polls give him an 85% chance of winning.
Just keep up your advertising Nathan. It’s good for people to know in advance.
You are such a simpleton Agnatha! Look.
Boxlock
Posted November 1, 2008 at 1:34 pm | Permalink
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
And do you know why it is awaiting moderation….because of the links I seem to have to post for you to even get around.
Read the post at 1:34 pm.
Linda,
My goodness, Having me around would make you safer than you could think of.
I am a trained Marine who is a Marksmanship Instructor and believe in protecting others from harm.
I have been trained in many different areas of threat assessment and the use of deadly force.
You could only be safer if you actually had your own police escort or another trained indivudal with you.
LOL, yet you are afraid.
Nope, I have not voted for him yet.
I’ll do that on Tuesday, and not before, because my home state, Virginia, doesn’t allow early voting unless her citizens have a good enough reason to vote absentee.
I do not, and I will vote just as the bulk of my fellow Old Dominon’s citizens will vote, on Tuesday next
And LOL, there is nothing wrong with the guy… and nearly everything right about him.
You’ll see. :wink:
I’d say Nathan would be one of the safer ones on this blog to be around.
But then, anti-gunners have no idea what it’s like to be at the gun range with a dozen or more people and feel perfectly safe.
MOVE FORWARD!
PROTECTIVE GEAR ON!
YOU MAY PICK YOU YOUR WEAPON!
LOAD!
IS THE LINE READY?
READY ON THE LEFT?
READY ON THE RIGHT?
READY ON THE FIRING LINE?
COMMENCE FIRING!
CEASE FIRE!
RANGE IS CLEAR!
One of the links above should have linked to this, and can be from its sight, but I doubt the fish can figure it out….so….
125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer
Total Is About Double The U.S. Troop Death Toll In Iraq
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html
Will Obama Support Chicago Surge? Hometown Death Toll Double Iraq’s
“Barack Obama famously refused to support the surge in Iraq, claiming it would “make things worse.” Events have of course proved him very wrong, as Obama had to admit to Bill O’Reilly. Now that he’s acknowledged the efficacy of a surge, will he call for one . . . in his own hometown?”
As per this item [via Drudge] from the CBS affiliate in Chicago:
An estimated 123 people were shot and killed over the summer. That’s nearly double the number of soldiers killed in Iraq over the same time period.
So how about it? Will some enterprising MSM member ask Obama if he’ll call for a police surge to protect the lives of his own Illinois constitutents?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/09/05/will-obama-support-chicago-surge-hometown-death-toll-double-iraqs
Boxlock is talking gibberish; apparently drunk again. I hope his wife and kids are safe.
“My goodness, Having me around would make you safer than you could think of.
I am a trained Marine who is a Marksmanship Instructor and believe in protecting others from harm.
I have been trained in many different areas of threat assessment and the use of deadly force.
You could only be safer if you actually had your own police escort or another trained indivudal with you.
LOL, yet you are afraid.”
And why wouldn’t she be?
All these supposed qualifications you list? ALL wiped away by one very telling slip.
You joked about bringing a gun to a meet up to intimidate people.
“…to vote for ANY so-called Democrat AKA Homosexual AKA Feminist AKA Liberal would be an unpardonable SIN AGAINST GOD AND HUMANITY!!!!”
—-
What a wonderful example! There are so many ambassadors for the Republican Party, it’s difficult to know which one to emphasize!
Oh my.
It seems that at 10:16, the circus arrived.
The next 72 hours will be most interesting.
BlueJay, you are my friend. I trust we have one another’s back. My world is great! How’s yours?
More gibberish from the drunken Boxlock.
Hey BlueJay,
How’s it feel to have health insurance….your many DimLib friends that are so quick to call for redistribution, like yourself, they bought that insurance for you didn’t they……..NO, whaaaattt happened?
Night all, I’ve got to go shower and brush my teeth…..simply being around the DimLibs on this blog make me feel dirty.
#
RoaCH
Posted November 1, 2008 at 2:49 pm | Permalink
Hey XXX! Was that 3rd grade level? At least unlike you, he didn’t call a political candidate for the VP a c*nt – like you did.
What level was that post, heh?
_______________________________________________
Liar.
I didn’t even mention that I am a Range Safety Officer as well.
Last year I was in charge of the safety of over 500 Marines and Sailors while they threw Grenades, fired automatic weapons, and fired their issued weapons.
Yep, but Linda thinks I am mentally ill and not safe to be around.
Hey Boxlock, did you ever do the May Day thing where you hung the flowers on the doorknob and ran FAST so you wouldn’t be discovered? Evilll libaruls don’t want recognition for what they do for others, it kinda spoils it for us.
“BlueJay, you are my friend. I trust we have one another’s back”
You know it.
But you do damned well on your own.
BlueJay,
The joke was not meant to intimidate anyone. No matter how many times I have apologized for the obviously bad joke or tried to reason with you, Linda, or WS Clark, you have continued to be unreasonable.
The proof of this is the fact that when I made the joke, Julie said that the gun I bring had better be bigger than her husbands. (something to that effect)
Obviously she got that it was a joke and even joked back.
Yet no one went on and on and on about how she was threatening anyone or trying to intimidate anyone.
“A true maverick, a Republican without money.”
He was good! The two times I’ve identified with McCain and appreciated him was when he was doing humor.
Oh, before I retire here’s one more for the jawless fish Agnatha
Just some more background for better comprehension:
Chicago Crime statistics (Just the CITY, not the State!):
“* In This School Year Alone, 24 Students Were Killed (Since September)
* Last school year 34 students were killed (24 of which were gun-related). That’s 58 deaths over what amounts to a 17-month period.
* 345 homicides past year (since June 15, 2007)²
* 87 homicides from January – March this year.² (30 homicides in march, 11 homicides from April 1 – 14 ²)
* 24,652 crimes in the last 30 days.²
And these are record LOWS!
At the state level (Illinois)³ :
* 770 homicides in Illinois in 2005
* 780 homicides in 2006 (More recent figures were not found, but were projected to rise slightly).
* for 2006 – aggravated assault & batterys: 40,984, sexual assaults: 5,646, robberies: 23,816
On the highways (and I believe dying on the highway means dying on the highway, whether from insurgent IEDs or drunk driving)
* 38 killed January 1 – 21, 2008 ( Most recent statistic found, and which is actually down from 71 at this time in 2007)
* 1,245 killed in collisions in 2007 (which is actually the lowest number of fatal accidents since 1924!).
U.S. Military Deaths in IRAQ for 2008 ¹
* APRIL – 34
* MARCH – 39
* FEBRUARY – 29
* JANUARY – 40
I’m not trying to justify or apologize for any mishandling of Middle Eastern war efforts. But it sickens me that many reject perspective. Every single casualty in an armed conflict zone critical to the future of the handicapped globe is tallied and described to us repeatedly to drive home an agenda and message. Yes it’s valid, but the dripping condemnation included in these tallies loses perspective against the truth behind the statistics of violence throughout the world and indeed here at home. The only meaningful debate is the nobility or legitimacy of the war. If it is important or noble, the death toll in Iraq is historically nominal by relevant measure. That’s not the same as saying acceptable, but it is an argument for maintaining intelligent perspective.
Of course, the debate on the legitimacy or nobility of this war will be profoundly divisive. But at least it is the real point.”
http://redblueamerica.com/blog/2008-04-23/this-week-us-death-toll-city-chicago-higher-then-nation-iraq-3006
And that one from Red/Blue America, a relatively unbiased page.
I’m out of this quagmire.
Boxlock, you are digging yourself in deeper. Are you really this thick? Are you really the internet equivalent of a “Box of Rocks”?
You are comparing total homicides in Chicago to American military deaths in Iraq, not total violent deaths.
The city of Chicago has 3 million people, and Chicagoland has over 9 million. We have somewhere around 130,000 troops deployed in Iraq. The population of Iraq is approximately 29 million.
You are comparing violent deaths from the entire population of a metropolitan area (3 to 9 million people) to a restricted population (130,000 US military) in an entire country. It is a comparison of apples and oranges, and again, I am being kind.
Nathaniel – Are you trying to convince Linda or yourself about your superior knowledge of guns?
A sign of true wisdom and superiority is the need to NOT tell everyone, every minute how great you are. Are you so insecure that you need validation, even if it comes from your own lips?
“The joke was not meant to intimidate anyone. ”
But as is clearly evident, it did.
What an irresponsible moment for you.
Of course, I have met you several times and my avoidance of you has less to do with fear than simple disinterest and dismissal. I don’t feel we have anything productive to exchange.
SNL?
I can do a better Olberman than Afleck did.
Back to it.
It’s late and I have to make a confession. MOST of the evellll liburals on this blog are pallin’ around with a domestic terrorist.
It’s true. I learned it last week but we all faced the ramifications together today. We talked about how we could handle this revelation and I think we decided (I think because when you get a bunch of liberals together God knows you’re gonna wait a long time for a consensus! They all have their own opinions and although quite respectful of one another they are not going to be led!), OK, so I think we decided that we aren’t positive how this will all play out.
It is true! We have been around this person of interest and this person of interest is from,
(wait for it)
Chicago.
We know. Ergo.
annie_moose, we’re trying to hang in there, but you are — FROM CHICAGO! And, what was that stuff you were saying about the 70s??
Damn. I think we’re screwed!
Mom,
I just like to make sure that when people like Linda say I am mentally ill and that she is afraid of me that she is both not telling the truth and being irrational.
If the claim was never made, I wouldn’t have made the comment.
BlueJay,
What more do you want from me?
I have told you, I have told Linda, and I have told WS Clark that I never meant to intimidate them.
I have apologized.
I have admitted that the comment in Hindsight was dumb.
There is nothing else I can do. I have tried to be reasonable at every level.
Yet you still mischaracterize what I said and still keep bringing up the comment.
Linda still says she is afraid of me.
The ball of being reasonable is in your court and all 3 of you refuse to do so.
Lindaink55: I’ll be rejoicing for several years if things turn out the way we are hoping for!
Nathan,
They need an enemy to blame everything on, and to elevate their fearless leader.
Any conservative will do. There doesn’t need to be a valid reason.
To instill fear from Nathan, is to get the sheep all lined up in a row – closing their little Bambi eyes and ears to not be able to see or hear the truth.
Well, Im off to shoot and kill people with Lasers now.
*NOTE* This comment in no way was meant to intimidate anyone.
Oh my, do we have to hear about the sheep and the sheepdog again? I’m going to bed. I just can’t hear it again. I didn’t like that bedtime story the first time I heard it and it sure hasn’t improved with the telling.
“BlueJay,
What more do you want from me?”
I haven’t asked anything of you Nathan.
I’m just sharing the truth with you.
Forget about killing people, you could join Sarah and Sakarhov for some baby seal kinnin!
TORONTO (Reuters) – U.S. vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin fell prey to a Canadian prankster on Saturday when he called her impersonating French President Nicolas Sarkozy and got her to accept an invitation to hunt baby seals.
In an over-the-top French accent, a member of the Quebec comedy duo “The Masked Avengers,” famous for tricking celebrities and politicians including Sarkozy himself, asked if Palin would take him on a hunting trip by helicopter, and then in French said they could also go kill baby seals.
An apparently oblivious Palin said she thought that would be fun. “We could have a lot of fun together as we’re getting work done. We could kill two birds with one stone that way.”
The prankster also got Palin, Republican John McCain’s running mate in Tuesday’s U.S. presidential election, to reveal a potential ambition for the top job in Washington.
Asked if she would like to eventually become president, the Alaska governor responded, “Well, maybe in eight years.”
Palin’s office quickly admitted they were hoodwinked.
woops Sarkozy
Nathan,
Might I ask what so utterly terrifies and/or enrages you that you feel the need to pack heat every time you step out of your house? Sorry, but that seems fairly indicative of mental instability to me.
There’s even more the jokesters complimented her on the nalin palin flick, and she thanked him!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081102/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_palin_prank_3
Jed?
This is outside the topic.
But there was a meetup today. Many are interested in the medium in which you make art.
We would like you on board.
If you have an email you are not afraid to compromise, post it here.
Or, we will be working to establish an email you and others can reply to.
Do you wear a seat belt Jed? Every time you drive or ride in a car? Seems mentally unstable to me.
Jed, you have a fire alarm in your house? You have it hooked up to a fully charged battery or electric 100% of the time? Seems mentally unstable to me.
Jed, you lock your doors at home every night? Seems mentally unstable to me.
Jimbo,
I seldom get around to putting on my seatbelt, and one of these days I’ll probably get a ticket for failing to click-it. Yes, I inherited a smoke alarm with the house, and I check the battries in it when I think of it or want to scare the cats. I don’t usually lock my doors when I’m home; I may need to start before long though, to keep from getting stuck babysitting my great-grandchildren! So far anyway, I haven’t needed any of that stuff, and I have ever so much more interesting things to worry about.
“One of the links above should have linked to this, and can be from its sight, but I doubt the fish can figure it out….so….
125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer
Total Is About Double The U.S. Troop Death Toll In Iraq”
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html
This must be what you are babbling about. Riiiiight. Compare the total violent deaths in Chicago versus the death rate for US troops. You don’t get it, the comparision is a total red herring. There are approximately 130,000 US troops stationed in Iraq, while there are more than 3 million people in Chicago alone. So, the proportion of US troops killed violently is still much higher than the proportion of Chicagoans killed violently. Not only that, once again, the number of Iraqis killed violently is much higher, or don’t they count? And I explained this clearly in my initial post on this subject.
So, “Box of Rocks” it is.
Blue,
I’ve done most mediums-drawing, painting, ceramics and sculpture, but that was decades ago. Most of my life’s work is in precious metals. One-off designer jewelry, hollow ware and an occasional Chalice or altar or wall crucifix. Lately though, I’ve pretty much confined my work to digitally enhanced and modified photographs, which I sell as limited edition artist’s books to collectors. I also recently designed layout for several brochures for local candidates and causes (as a contribution).
Boxic,
You are only counting the number of American deaths in Iraq. If you include the insurgents killed, and the civilians who get caught in crossfires, accidentally or intentionally bombed or used for target practice on dull days, I’m sure the total is much higher.
So, here are the ratios for the summer:
Chicago: 125/3,000,000 = 0.000042
US Troops: 62.5/130,000 = 0.00048
Iraqi civilians: 2,379/29,000,000 = 0.000082
The percentages for deaths per population are lower for Chicago citizens than either US troops or Iraqi citizens by a factor of approximately 10 and 2 respectively.
#
Agnatha
Posted November 2, 2008 at 2:09 am | Permalink
So, here are the ratios for the summer:
Chicago: 125/3,000,000 = 0.000042
US Troops: 62.5/130,000 = 0.00048
Iraqi civilians: 2,379/29,000,000 = 0.000082
The percentages for deaths per population are lower for Chicago citizens than either US troops or Iraqi citizens by a factor of approximately 10 and 2 respectively.
———————–
Deaths per square mile of populated area would probably show that Chicago has a higher rate.
Reggie,
You always seem to find a way to lie your ass off with statistics.
#
Jed
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:23 am | Permalink
Reggie,
You always seem to find a way to lie your ass off with statistics.
———————
Do the math and then come back and make the same statement.
The deaths of human beings don’t matter (like Bush/McCain) so long as Regular can pretend to win an argument.
Pathetic human being. Only an ego really…no soul there.
Violent deaths are violent deaths. Example given:
On the highways (and I believe dying on the highway means dying on the highway, whether from insurgent IEDs or drunk driving)
More people are killed in metropolitan Chicago than in all of Iraq due to violence. That’s all I ever claimed and that is EXACTLY TRUE! So get off your popous high horse, you have yet to give example you can ride there. Obama has done a great job in Chicago….NOT.
High crime and murder rates, high death rates period.
*Some of the poorest schools in the nation
*High taxes
*Obama has been a failure there as well as in his short Senate career, spent almost entirely campaigning for Pres. by the way, and I conclude he is nothing but an empty suit.
The rest of the country including the DimLibs will probably soon find that out.
“More people are killed in metropolitan Chicago than in all of Iraq due to violence. That’s all I ever claimed and that is EXACTLY TRUE! So get off your popous high horse, you have yet to give example you can ride there. Obama has done a great job in Chicago….NOT.”
Box of Rocks, more people do NOT die from violence in metropolitan Chicago than in Iraq. You are not counting the Iraqi citizens. Secondly, how is Barack Obama more respondible for the death rate in Chicago than…say…the mayor or police chief. But again, your statement in bold is simply, flat out false. And as a citizen of Chicago, your chances are better than they are for a soldier in Iraq by a factor of 10, which is why we should honor their service.
And no, Box of Rocks, the statistics given for the violent death of citizens in Iraq do not include “drunk drivers”.
You have been pwned. The fact that you are evidently too dense to do anything but reiterate the gross numbers (and you even did that wrong in this last post) is due to the fact that you don’t even bother to think about what you post here.
You may not have the sense to be embarrassed by the nothing but ludicrously bad information and dense ad hominems (such as your favorite “DimLibs”), but your posts are embarrassing nevertheless.
You, on the other hand, have earned your new nickname from me. I typically, unlike you, do not adopt pet names for my opponents here, but your sheer inability to move on from a completely discredited line of argument, or to learn from humiliating mistakes, make you worthy of this name.
“Secondly, how is Barack Obama more respondible for the death rate in Chicago than…say…the mayor or police chief. ”
And ALL Dimocrats, (spelling intended for accuracy).
“More people are killed in metropolitan Chicago than in all of Iraq due to violence. That’s all I ever claimed and that is EXACTLY TRUE!”
An ABSOLUTE LIE!!!!!!!
Unless, of course, you do not consider Iraqis to be people. I suppose that explains a lot!
US deaths in Iraq plunge to wartime low in October…
“BAGHDAD (AP) – U.S. deaths in Iraq fell in October to their lowest monthly level of the war, matching the record low of 13 fatalities suffered in July. Iraqi deaths fell to their lowest monthly levels of the year.”
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081031/D945OKQO0.html
Ya just can’t read and understand the posts can ya, a little adult ADHD there jaw-less fish?
I am only talking about Americans and have been, and less die in Iraq than in Chicago alone.
Even more Iraqis would die if we weren’t there, just as they were before.
Fewer US military personnel died in Chicago than in Iraq. Again Boxlock – your claim is a LIE.
Yoy said PEOPLE – not just Americans. However, you did make it pretty clear that you do not consider Iraqis to be people.
“Ya just can’t read and understand the posts can ya, a little adult ADHD there jaw-less fish?
I am only talking about Americans and have been, and less die in Iraq than in Chicago alone.”
I understand perfectly, as anyone reading this exchange will easily realize. Part of my very criticism, o’ Box of Rocks, is that you have ONLY been referring to Americans.
And once again:
1) You obviously fail to understand ratios. Half a number of people killed out of 130,000 is a much higher ratio than that number of people killed out of 3,000,000.
2) The fact that you don’t even refer to Iraqi civilian deaths, in a comparison of death rates, speaks volumes about you being unable to develop a valid comparison. One group constitutes armed men and women in an occupation, the other constitutes a variety of citizens living in a city.
Your “point” about there being “more deaths” in Chicago than in Iraq arises from a meaningless comparison that makes any argument from it invalid.
You clearly don’t realize what a clown you make youeself out to be. And your pathetic ad hominems (a little adult ADHD) are all you have when you’ve been pwned.
You seem completely unable to develop a coherent argument. You continually demonstrate a lack of inclination to even bother to know what you are saying, and when you are confronted with the flaws in your arguments you can do nothing but resort to playground insults.
Like I said, you embarrass yourself, even if you are too dense to realize it.
“The death toll among Iraqis as a result of the US-led invasion has now reached an estimated 655,000, a study in the Lancet medical journal reports today.”
“Although such death rates might be common in times of war, the combination of a long duration and tens of millions of people affected has made this the deadliest international conflict of the 21st century and should be of grave concern to everyone,”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oct/11/iraq.iraq
“the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq to that time, or about 50% higher than the death rate prior to the invasion. The authors described this as a conservative estimate, because it excluded the extreme statistical outlier data from Falluja. If the Falluja cluster were included, the mortality estimate would increase to 150% over pre-invasion rates (95% CI: 1.6 to 4.2).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
“Even more Iraqis would die if we weren’t there, just as they were before.”
Once again, you don’t even know what you are saying.
The Saddam Hussein regime was horrible, and there were certainly outbreaks of slaughter from that POS. However, the invasion of Iraq, the removal of that strong (albeit evil) central government and the resultant breaking down into religious and ethnic factions, combined with the entrance of foreign combatants and essentially bringing our conflict with terrorists into this country, resulted in a much more violent country.
It is true that things have improved, and the surge appears to have worked in conjunction with developed alliances with local militias, and that’s good. It’s the least we could do both for the people of Iraq and for our men and women who did their constitutional duty in going there (even if it was the wrong conflict for our country to engage in).
But it is outrageously false to claim that more Iraqis were dying in the conditions before the invasion than after, and no one I know of, including those who defend the invasion, make that sort of recklessly false claim.
That being said, it is true that our presence there certainly prevented deaths that would have occurred if we had simply deposed Hussein and left the Iraqi people on their own.
“I understand perfectly, as anyone reading this exchange will easily realize. Part of my very criticism, o’ Box of Rocks, is that you have ONLY been referring to Americans.”
—-the Jaw-less Fish, and ADLD suffer
Imbecile, Americans are all that I have be referring to from the beginning if you would/could read the post carefully.
Reason? Not because Iraqis are not human, an asinine statement itself, but because they have been killing each other for thousands of years in even greater numbers, still are now but in lesser numbers, and still will be when we are gone to an even greater extent probably.
Why, who knows….they’re weird that way seemingly worshiping death. But I am concerned with the number of Americans lost and rejoice that the number is historically low for a armed conflict. Less than under any Dimocrat President sitting a significant armed conflict. The number is decreasing significantly to well below the number of Americans killed in Chicago by violence. Is that bad news for the DimLibs, they sure act like and argue it!
The fact remains, you are the one who started arguing a different subject than the one I brought up. That of course make me suspect you simply are disingenuous by changing the subject and then arguing that being upset things are going rather well in Iraq for our solders, as is well reported by news agencies around the world though not by the liberal, Bush bashing press.
“‘I understand perfectly, as anyone reading this exchange will easily realize. Part of my very criticism, o’ Box of Rocks, is that you have ONLY been referring to Americans.
—-the Jaw-less Fish, and ADLD suffer
“Imbecile, Americans are all that I have be referring to from the beginning if you would/could read the post carefully.”
Three gratuitous ad hominems in just that short phrase. And I invite anyone to look at the line he quoted. It is clear that I was aware from the beginning that Box of Rocks was referring only to the American dead. My response was to point out the multiple reasons why a comparison between the civilian violent death rate in a metropolitan city and the death rate of service men and women in an occupied nation is inappropriate. Your claim that I haven’t shown awareness since the beginning that you were only referring to American death rates is simply absurd.
“Reason? Not because Iraqis are not human, an asinine statement itself, but because they have been killing each other for thousands of years in even greater numbers, still are now but in lesser numbers, and still will be when we are gone to an even greater extent probably.”
The occupation of Iraq resulted in a substantial increase in civilian deaths, not a decrease (as I discussed and Linda validated). The reduction of civilian deaths now is coming within the context of greater civilian deaths within the populace. The strife between Shia and Sunni, the deliberate stirring up of Sunni violence by Al Queda (importance because our occupation was the reason for the existence of an Al Queda in Iraq), and for that matter violence between different Shia factions, claimed a lot more people after the occupation than during the reign of Saddam Hussein. That’s reality.
If you are going to make a comparison of death rates between localities, at least the populations should be similar (and there are still problems with such a comparison when you are talking about a city of 3,000,000 versus a country of 29,000,000-even Regular made a decent point when he talked about population densities, the denisity of a country is going to vary far more than the density of a city- a better comparison would be civilian death rates between Chicago and Baghdad). However, if one is going to compare a city to a country, a total population to total population comparison has at least minimal surface validity. A comparison between death rates for military persons in hazardous duty and a total population of a city doesn’t even meet the most basic standards for surface validity. Pointing out that your chosen comparison is meaningless is not arguing a different subject. If you can not understand an objective evaluation of your comparison and its merits for supporting an argument, that is yet another one of your shortcomings.
You don’t know what you are doing, Box of Rocks, and that is a fact. And that is why you continue to embarrass yourself even if you are not aware of it.
“But I am concerned with the number of Americans lost and rejoice that the number is historically low for a armed conflict. Less than under any Dimocrat President sitting a significant armed conflict.”
Once again, an objectively false statement from Box of Rocks, made without any thought as to whether such a statement might be true with regards to what would be a “historical low” for an armed conflict. The Serbian conflict, for example, had fewer Americans lost than the Iraqi conflict by every measurement (1 in combat, 20 total), and yet it was successfully completed. The President at the time? One William Jefferson Clinton. Of course, the nature of the conflicts are not really comparable, but to claim that the number from Iraq represents one that is “historically low for a(n) armed conflict” is objectively false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_casualties_of_war
And yes, I am glad that the American deaths (and indeed civilian deaths) have declined, and I have seen that widely reported by the press, including the mainstream press that coalition rightwingers decry as “liberal”.
Y’all can debate c*nt hair statistics all you want about Chicago and Iraq.
There’s a world of difference between what is expected in a war zone vs what is expected in what is supposed to be a free, civilized, great country – Chicago, Obama’s back yard.
One would not expect more Americans to die in Chicago, then to die in Iraq.
What’s Obama’s excuse for Chicago? Obama blaming Bush for Chicago too?
Re: Jimbo
DNFTRST
Agnatha, is the best you can come up with?
You seem very frustrated. I overestimated your intelligence.
Goodbye.
Box,
I declare you the winner of the Chicago/Iraq comparison.
Obama’s back yard town of Chicago is a disgrace, the armpit of America and the armpit of the World.
Obama proclaims himself to be a citizen of the World, but he sure as he*l won’t brag about being a citizen of Chicago.
BTW:
You said:
“More people are killed in metropolitan Chicago than in all of Iraq due to violence. That’s all I ever claimed and that is EXACTLY TRUE! So get off your popous high horse, you have yet to give example you can ride there. Obama has done a great job in Chicago….NOT.”
Then, when I pointed out that this was a false statement, you said:
“Imbecile, Americans are all that I have be referring to from the beginning if you would/could read the post carefully.”
Actually, two things:
1) You got off message with the first paragraph, not I. You did not specify Americans in that statement, which is why I said in response to it:
“Box of Rocks, more people do NOT die from violence in metropolitan Chicago than in Iraq. You are not counting the Iraqi citizens.”
2) Secondly, if you go back to your initial post on this subject you said:
“Body count in the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq.”
So, you did not make it clear from the beginning that you were talking about American deaths. I figured it out pretty easily when I got the statistics (and indeed, was able to determine that the death rate for the LAST six months for American service people was lower than you quoted-you later evidently came up with another source that discussed the death rate for the summer).
So, not only did you not make a meaningful comparison, you did not even make the population of who you were talking about clear like you claimed you did.
“Agnatha, is the best you can come up with?
“You seem very frustrated. I overestimated your intelligence.
“Goodbye.”
And
“Box,
“I declare you the winner of the Chicago/Iraq comparison.”
Translation: Take the baaaaait. Respond to meeeeeeeeee! I insulted yooooooooooou!”
Nope.
Re: Jimbo
Do
Not
Feed
The
Racist
Spam
Troll
Racist?
Link please….
Liar.
As for Spam, can’t stand it. Do like the Monty Python spam spoof though.
Troll? Why Agnes, that’s what you are doing to me right now.
And Agnes, your translation is off.
The LAST thing I wanted was a response from you.
Besides, you should be busy today burning flags with your buddy JR. Make sure all the children and your preacher are there to enjoy the fun.
“My response was to point out the multiple reasons why a comparison between the civilian violent death rate in a metropolitan city and the death rate of service men and women in an occupied nation is inappropriate.”
Again, simply asinine!
The baseline deaths in Iraq before we ever came in was high, and that is in fact a baseline.
There are fewer Americans killed in Iraq than Americans in Chicago….that’s a fact. And that’s all I stated.
The Jaw-less fish comes up with an argument entirely separate from what I ever stated and then maintains that what I should have been looking at.
Now that’s a loser!
There are fewer Americans killed in Iraq than Americans killed in Chicago….that’s a fact. And that’s all I stated.
I’m sure everyone could gather that…..except the ADHD Jaw-less fish.
“There are fewer Americans killed in Iraq than Americans killed in Chicago….that’s a fact. And that’s all I stated.”
Once again, nothing much but sputtering and clueless ad hominems. Also factually incorrect. Box of Rocks, you implied that the death toll in Chicago was scandalous because it was higher than the death toll (for Americans) in Iraq, and that the Democrats in Chicago and Illinois were to blame. However, as I pointed out, the comparison of the death rate between a the citizentry for a city of 3 million people and a spcifically American force in an occupied country consisting of 130 thousand people is meaningless. You might as well be outraged that more Americans die violently in America than die violently in Iraq. The comparison makes just as much sense. If more people violently died in, say, Topeka, you might have a comparison. Here you don’t, and that’s a fact.
And then, on top of that, you write sloppily enough to imply (more than once) that more PEOPLE die in Chicago than in Iraq.
It’s amusing that you call me a loser. Do try again, Sir Black Knight.
Here is the original post I replied to:
——————————————-
Should US pull out of Chicago? Think about it…
Pull out of Iraq or
Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago ?
Body count in the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq .
Chicago…. Who Runs it?
Senators: Barack Obama and Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson Jr.
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan
Illinois Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike, see above)
Chicago Mayor: Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)
Leadership in Illinois? ……. all democrats
Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they’re all blaming each other!
Can’t blame Republicans ……..there aren’t any!
State pension fund: $44 billion in debt …….worst in country!
Chicago’s Cook County sales tax: 10.25%, highest in country.
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois
and he’s gonna “fix” Washington politics for us!
————————————————
So, ALL Box of Rocks said was that the absolute death toll was higher in Chicago than for American forces in Iraq. Right, sure.
Do you not understand that you can be held accountable for what you post here?
And by the way, I strongly doubt Box of Rocks actually wrote the above. I am sure he just cut and pasted it from somewhere with his usual attention to detail (that is, none whatsoever).
“Do you not understand that you can be held accountable for what you post here?”
Ha, you who? YOU!
Who cares, you can’t even read the posts, and then the links, without changing the point and then arguing that.
The fact remains:
125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer
Total Is About Double The U.S. Troop Death Toll In Iraq
CHICAGO (CBS) ? An estimated 125 people were shot and killed over the summer. That’s nearly double the number of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq over the same time period.
In May, cbs2chicago.com began tracking city shootings and posting them on Google maps. Information compiled from our reporters, wire service reports and the Chicago Police Major Incidents log indicated that 125 people were shot and killed throughout the city between the start of Memorial Day weekend on May 26, and the end of Labor Day on Sept. 1.
According to the Defense Department, 65 U.S. soldiers were killed in combat in Iraq. About the same number were killed in Afghanistan over that same period.
In the same time period, an estimated 247 people were shot and wounded in the city.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810166.html
Will Obama Support Chicago Surge? Hometown Death Toll Double Iraq’s
“Barack Obama famously refused to support the surge in Iraq, claiming it would “make things worse.” Events have of course proved him very wrong, as Obama had to admit to Bill O’Reilly. Now that he’s acknowledged the efficacy of a surge, will he call for one . . . in his own hometown?
As per this item [via Drudge] from the CBS affiliate in Chicago:
An estimated 123 people were shot and killed over the summer. That’s nearly double the number of soldiers killed in Iraq over the same time period.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/09/05/will-obama-support-chicago-surge-hometown-death-toll-double-iraqs
Now, you complete A$$, argue that! That is what I’ve said all along…more Americans are killed in Chicago due to violence than in Iraq!
Take your asinine argument up with CBS and the authors of the links posted if you don’t agree.
I will no longer argue with an idiot.
“Now, you complete A$$, argue that! That is what I’ve said all along…more Americans are killed in Chicago due to violence than in Iraq!
Take your asinine argument up with CBS and the authors of the links posted if you don’t agree.
I will no longer argue with an idiot.”
Boy, you are practically sputtering with rage, Box of Rocks.
It doesn’t matter if CBS2 in Chicago makes the comparison (it bleeds, it’s sensational, it leads) and some nitwit from Drudge picks it up, it is still not a valid comparison. CBS2 is comparing the death rate for a city of 3 million to the death rate for a force of 130,000 people. To compare the absolute number of violent deaths between the population of 3 million and a population of 130,000 is not appropriate, it doesn’t matter who does it. 125 people killed out of 3,000,000 is a much smaller ratio and percentage than approximately 62 or 63 out of 130,000. A quick estimation of civilian deaths in Baghdad alone for the same period this year, btw, is approximately 500 civilian deaths out of a population of approximately 7,000,000 people.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad
Ratio of violent deaths over population in Chicago for citizens=125/3,000,000=0.000042
Ratio of violent deaths over population in Baghdad for citizens=500/7,000,000=0.00071
Ratio for Ratio of violent deaths over population for American troops stationed in Iraq=62.5/130,000=0.00048
The ratios, which indicate the proportion for violent deaths out of the total populations of Chicago, Baghdad, and American troops in the entirity of Iraq, are much higher for both the people of Baghdad and the American troops than they are for the people living in Chicago. Sensationalistic facile thinking may be good enough for a local TV news station trying to get attention for itself, but it is not good enough to construct an argument. The ratios indicate, very very clearly, that the chances for a violent death in Chicago is less by a factor of 10 than for a soldier serving in Iraq (although this may vary according to the Chicago neighborhood or where someone is serving in Iraq, of course). And for a citizen of Baghdad, the chances are worse (although for a citizen of Iraq overall, the odds are better than for an American soldier, but still worse than they are in Chicago.
The comparison of absolute the death toll in absolute numbers between Chicago and American troops is meaningless, except that it provides grist for the right wingers who are trying to make Obama coming from Chicago look scary. But because the comparison is meaningless, apples and oranges, any argument generated about how bad Chicago is is meaningless. If you want to talk about how bad Chicago is, compare it with other metropolitan cities in the US, or even Chicago itself in earlier periods of time. But to compare the death toll with the military death toll in Iraq is nothing more than an attention getter. It is not a valid comparison.
It may be much better now, but the hazards for our troops doing their constitutional duty in Iraq is still much higher than the hazards of living in Chicago. Why are you denigrating the bravery of our troops by implying that they are safer serving hazardous duty than they would be safer living as civilians in Chicago, all to score questionable points against Obama (by the way, I don’t think that is in any way your intent, but functionally that is what you are doing)? And why is a Senator from Chicago, Illinois being singled out for responsibility for the death toll?
If that is not what you were doing, what was your point?
Jackass, all I said is more Americans are violently killed and injured in Chicago than in Iraq, and you can’t stand the thought of that, traitor!
You are a simply a liar at this point, as you can’t be that stupid and still have a heart beat, that is very apparent now.
Your post are of no value as you change a post into something else, and then argue that.
You know you’ve been made a fool of and won’t accept it, so just keep it up and give us a laugh. What an ass, and dancing at that.
“Jackass, (followed by truly venemous rant).”
It really is all you have isn’t it? That and repeating the factoid that more citizens of Chicago died from violence than soldiers in Iraq. Fine. I never argued differently. What I said is that the comparison is meaningless, and it is. No meaningful conclusion can be drawn from it. You can’t defend the meaning of it, so you launch into yet another tirade of name calling and whining about me changing your post into something else (and I have done no such thing).
You have EARNED the title, “Box of Rocks”. And get help for your rage. Seriously, there is something wrong with you.
You most certainly did attempt to change the what I posted into something else.
You denied the accuracy of it and that was/is ludicrous, I gave the links and data to prove it.
You simply are a liar now, and a damn poor one at that.
You are also a hypocrite in criticizing me for labeling you what you are, yet calling me names as well.
What you call rage is simply your personal defense against being shown to be the fool you are. But thanks, I get a kick out of effecting you so.
I see you have STILL not corrected your nic Boxlock.
You SHOULD be posting as Boxlock the clown.
They finally let you girl, hoaxer Ashley Todd outta jail ya know box.
The little bit of insanity that claimed she was attacked by an Obama supporter? YOU remember. You irresponsibly jumped on the story.
Yeah. She’s free now, pending psychiatric care.
Maybe you cons can get a group rate?
There’s no fixing you BJ, you are a worthless slug in society. Truly worthless, and you know it.