The people of California did not do anything drastic. They simply voted to enshrine the definition of natural marriage as one man and one woman in the state constitution. What does this victory mean? The people of California want to wrest control of the legal definition of marriage from the judiciary. The people of California want religious groups to be free to operate within their own value systems. People don’t want to unleash discrimination suits and other forms of legal harassment against religious bodies that hold that marriage is between a man and a woman. – Jennifer Roback Morse, the Ruth Institute, for National Review Online
How people can vote for the first African-American president in American history while simultaneously voting to discriminate against gays is testament to the incoherence of American politics and the lack of clear-cut philosophy guiding people’s choices. Discrimination against others just because you don’t like how they live their lives is against the very essence of the two pillars of America – liberty and equality.
I keep hearing about how this will right itself in the long run, that it’s just a matter of waiting until this new generation gets old enough and then gay rights will magically be “granted.” I hope that’s true. But to paraphrase a saying that’s been overused lately – in the long run all of today’s gay partners and gay parents will be dead. These soothing tones of “patience” and “don’t worry” don’t mean much when you consider that you only have one life to live. – digbysblog.blogspot.com
908 Comments
There IS NO DANGER of being able to sue for not marrying gays when they can already discriminate who they marry. Its the first amdendment! I was banned from marrying my husband from one church because…we were already living together! So please, that first one is just one of the many excuses they try to tell themselves to make themself feel better about their distain for gays.
I agree that one day isn’t soon enough.
Too big a bolus to swallow all at once. But don’t worry. It won’t prevent a single sex act nor in the long run have the slightest affect on anyone who is sane.
Would it be possible to have common law homosexual marriages. I wouldn’t test it with this court.
I know some gay couples that have been together longer than a lot of hetero marriages…yet they cannot act on each other’s behalf, they cannot legally sign contracts for each other, they cannot make medical decisions for the other like “legally” married people.
Ridiculous attack on people because of fear or stupidity..not sure which one.
I was actually going to reply to political_mama, but I was unable to figure out what the hell she was babbling about!
If de-segregation was put up to a public vote in the 1960’s, it wouldn’t have passed. If allowing marriage between two people of different races was put up to a vote in the 1960’s, IT wouldn’t have passed either.
At that time, it was up to the judicial system to look beyond cultural prejudices and look at the true legality of something as written in the constitution and the bill of rights. Gay marriage will also be argued in the highest courts and eventually allowed because it is a basic human right. It is only a matter of time.
“Gay marriage will also be argued in the highest courts and eventually allowed because it is a basic human right. It is only a matter of time.”
Yup. But let’s remember personally those who dragged their heels and prevented it for as long as they could.
Their cause is a hopeless one. It HURTS people who have done them no offense and does so to defend their own prejudices, weakness, and stupidity.
I hope such happy bigots wear their badge proudly so that they themselves may know scorn and derision.
Actually, opposition to a ‘pro-gay statute’ does not make one a bigot.
This is still a free society and people have a voice in saying how they want their government ran.
I could draw an interesting parallel here. People who support freedom of choice for gay marriage many times also support freedom of choice for abortion. Yet, these same people deny freedom of choice when it comes to motorcycle helmets. Why is that? Helmets have been proven to be statistically immaterial, especially at highway speeds. Matter of fact, almost 60% of the motorcyclists who died last year were wearing helmets at the time. (NHTSA data)
Why is ‘freedom of choice’ supported for some and not others? Is it cost? The “public burden” theory has been definitely disproven many times, yet there is still this widespread mistaken belief that unhelmeted motorcyclists cost a disproportionate amount of public money–factually not true.
So..why is “freedom of choice” good for some but not all? Helmets are hot, heavy, they restrict vision/hearing and are not effective in any impact sustained at anything over 13.4318 miles per hour (DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard #218 requirements).
Is it a true concern for safety? If that were true, then these same people would be advocating helmets for pedestrians and all people in cars, yet I have never seen anyone propose this. More pedestrians die every year than motorcyclists, yet never is there a hue and cry for pedestrian helmets. So much for any valid “safety” concern.
So, “freedom of choice” only applies certain people…but not motorcyclists? Why is that?
So, when the people voted to bring in authoritarian despotic theocrats into power, will the society be free then?
Why, yes, lvs2. They’ll be free to do God’s will.
/sarcasm
I think Craptor, you’ll find that there are helmet laws in many red states. I personally don’t give a crap if someone dumb enough to buy a Harley gets killed. One less motorhead is a victory for mankind.
As for helmets not providing a safety advatage, you’re simply lying there. Otherwise why do NASCAR drivers, pilots and football players wear them.
Just another case of religious people forcing their beliefs upon others.
It’s amazing how so many promote tolerance, yet when those of us that have an opposing view and believe homosexuality is wrong, we are bigots.
As far as comparing gay rights and civil rights, that is a far reach. Try to find a major and reputable research study to show a linkage between the genetic code and being born gay. You won’t find one.
There is no choice for being born a particular skin color. There is a choice for being gay. It is not a basic human right.
Maggot, this thread is “right up your alley”, eh.
Guess we can’t call Republicans vomit anymore. How about Puke? Give me some guidance here, eds.
“those of us that have an opposing view and believe homosexuality is wrong, we are bigots.”
Understanding your illness is the first step in overcoming it.
I agree with BlueJay — Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist
Eminent doctor makes case leftist ideology is a mental disorder — http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494
Terrorists disclose: We LOVE liberals!
Jihadists respond to Rosie, Clinton, Penn, Pelosi, Fonda, Boxer, Murtha — http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57716
Interesting aside. Or not.
Recently my employers health care admin. required all employees to provide proof of dependant age and marriage/common law union/domestic partnership.
I found it odd that the standard of proof for common law/domestic partner was lower than the standard for legally married.
Conservatism is pre k social developmental arrest.
California has domestic partnership laws in place.
Homosexual couples have the same rights married couples do under the law.
Let’s support taking marriage out of the hands of the Government, period.
Civil unions.
Marriage is a religious ceremony.
If there are churches that would marry homosexual couples (and there would be) so be it.
“Conservatism is pre k social developmental arrest.”
…says the one who advocats a form of government that has been a dismal failure everywhere it’s been tried.
chucklesnort…
“Marriage is a religious ceremony” — so much for “separation of Church and State” — interesting how the neo-libs (atheists / secular humanists) only care about one side of that coin
Homos like pickn on a little old lady — let em protest at a black church — watchm get their asses kicked by some big black deacons-n-ushers — homos on the rise — http://www.kpsplocal2.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=3115942&at1=News&h1=Prop%208%20Rally%20Turns%20Violent%20-%20Live%20Report&rnd=70882418
Let’s pass lots of laws about sex! Let’s talk about other people’s sexuality, what DO they do, and how do they do IT? Let’s pass a law that says sex is illegal unless it is absolutely the right time of the month for conception — thermometers should be provided to each female!
Yep, this is exactly what government at every level should be concerned with, should spend undue time discussing and definitely they should be passing as many laws pertaining to sex as possible!
————
Nebraska Lawmakers Ban Sex In Grain Elevators
http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/nebraska_lawmakers_ban_sex?utm_source=onion_rss_daily
Okay. Ignore people like “dadman” (who obviously has reading comprehension issues).
Kia is exactly right. If the churches want the “M” word–let them keep the word. But let’s have full equality for the secular contract, under the law. One form. One standard. No checkbox for “sex.”
The churches already have full control of defining a sacrament. And, last I checked, Pentacostals can’t stop Jews from getting married, and Southern Baptists can’t stop atheists from getting married (I realize people like “dadman” would probably like to cure those “defects”). You can get married by “Elvis” in Vegas. The civil contract is already open to all.
Unless you’re a gay couple. Even then, you can still get married. Gay marriage is perfectly legal, and can’t be made illegal (yet??). Only when gay couples insists that their marriages be treated equally under the law then, suddenly, the answer is “no,” in fact, “Hell no!” It’s completely emotional, and irrational. There is no logic to it at all.
Let the churches do sacraments. Government does contracts. This approach will at least make their desperate, sophist arguments more bizarre! :)
And I think, in the not-so-long run, it could be a winner.
One has to look to nature if to see if there is any precedent assigned to gender preference. As far as I know, there are no known species that further their genetic lines through association of ’same sex’ relationships.
Humans have complicated the issue by putting in societal values in substitution for biological values. There is no substance to the claims nor are there any validations studies to prove that ’same sex’ relationships would have a detrimental affect if they were not to exist in a formally recognition.
This is much more about protest by ’squeaking wheels’ that any fundamental principles being violated.
One has to examine the basis in fact here. Society can move on without ‘gay marriages’ and laws that may govern them. There would be much more chaos if there were no laws adjusting behavior in straight marriages however. The absence of after effect over long terms that the argument of gay marriage is of little merit because it cannot stand the test of time.
Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist
Eminent doctor makes case leftist ideology is a mental disorder — http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494
Umm.. .Linda, you’ve been punked.
P.S. If I didn’t make it clear, I want the word “marriage” stricken from government. Civil unions for all.
No, Outlander, it’s satire. Linda is great fan of the Onion, as am I.
“Umm.. .Linda, you’ve been punked.”
For you, outlander: /sarcasm
Can we talk about sex now?
One has to look to nature if to see if there is any precedent assigned to gender preference. As far as I know, there are no known species that further their genetic lines through association of ’same sex’ relationships.
Yet one finds homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom.
Since we’re talking about a civil contract for human beings (acknowledged as such in Lawrence v. Texas), your nature-channel blather is irrelevant.
“Regular” tries –
“…there are no known species that further their genetic lines through association of ’same sex’ relationships.”
Yawn.
If procreation is society’s only interest in heterosexual marriage, outlaw it for all post-menopausal women. Make old dudes produce a boner and whack off at the marriage bureau! Deny all marriage benefits to those who choose to adopt or simply to live child-free!
Yet one finds homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom.
—————–
Really?
#
lindainks55
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink
“Umm.. .Linda, you’ve been punked.”
For you, outlander: /sarcasm
Can we talk about sex now?
————
Sorry Linda. I’m happily married.
Really?
The first convenient link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
“ANTI” –
Yes, really.
Start here:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718
Rage
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:24 am | Permalink
Really?
The first convenient link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal
—————–
Defects.
Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.
Marriage is between a husband and wife. The people of California (and Kansas)do not want marriage to be anything but that. We do not want government or judges changing that definition for us today or our children tomorrow. We need a marriage amendment to settle the gay marriage issue once and for all, so we don’t have it in our face every day for the next ten years.
Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers. Do we want to teach the next generation that one-half of humanity—either mothers or fathers—are dispensable, unimportant? Children are confused enough right now with sexual messages. Let’s not confuse them further.
For those who say that supporters of marriage as it has always been defined are bigots who want to take away people’s rights and write discrimination into the constitution, I just respond that –Do you really believe people like us who believe mothers and fathers both matter to kids are like bigots and racists? I think that’s pretty offensive, don’t you? Particularly to the 60 percent of African-Americans, and the strong majority of Hispanics who oppose same-sex marriage. Marriage as the union of husband and wife isn’t new; it’s not taking away anyone’s rights. It’s common sense.
For those who say gay couples and their kids need the benefits and protections of marriage, I rfespond that if medical proxies aren’t working, let’s fix that problem. If people need health care, let’s get them health care. Don’t mess with marriage. The issue isn’t benefits, it is marriage. Local people can decide benefits. This is about the meaning of marriage, our most basic social institution for protecting children.
gweber, you guys are bigots. Bigots in Arkansas voted that gays cannot be good parents. They preferred orphan children to remain orphans rather than be adopted out to gay couples. You guys will hurt children just so you can deny a privilege you take for granted. The same is for marriage. I don’t know where you get off claiming you are the sole authority on what constitutes a marriage. Marriage is a governmental contract between two people. Only your religious bigotry dictates that it must be between a man and woman because people of the same sex are, as your fellow bigot put it, “defects”.
Not too long ago your fellow bigots defined marriage as between a man and woman of the same race. That too was changed and you weren’t forced to marry an Eskimo.
“gweber” attempts –
“Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.”
Sounds like it wouldn’t “redefine marriage” for anyone but, y’know, Gays and Lesbians.
How would heterosexual marriage be redefined for “all of you?”
Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.
Obviously, simply allowing legal equality to people who will continue to exist (whether you like it or not!), is not, in any way, “redefining marriage for all of us.”
And news flash, Gweber: Gay people can get married in Kansas. Right Now. They can have public weddings, and you can’t stop them! In fact, I think they should, as a sort of a 21st century version of a sit-in.
All they can’t do is get treated equally under the law. Yet you have the nerve to cite the civil rights movement while spitting on its most important lessons.
And by the way, if you’re black–it’s even worse.
The bigots main problem is with the Constitution:
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
For some reason, and it usually comes from religious fundies, whenever people want the same rights and privileges they think they are being persecuted. How about all you America hating bigots go to a country that doesn’t provide rights for everyone and execute gays, you know where to find them.
Note: the “60% african/hispanice” thing got me goin. Gweber didn’t actually cite the civil right movement.
How about all you America hating bigots go to a country that doesn’t provide rights for everyone and execute gays, you know where to find them.
Ah, yes, the traditional family values of Saudi Arabia and Iran.
It is indeed enlightening to engage in public discourse as reasoned and calm as yours. I appreciate your passionate beliefs, but wonder if your immediate tactic of name calling to anyone (me) who disagrees with your position helps your cause. Whatever, let me try to get past the invectives and respond:
Love is a great thing. But marriage isn’t just any kind of love; it’s the special love of husband and wife for each other and their children. I love my children–my daughters and sons. And I express that love in a particular way. I also express my love for my wife in a particular–but very different–ay. But if I, heaven (and laws) forbid, express the love for my children the way I express my love for my wife, it is a terrible, hurtful (criminal) act. So marriage legally defines that love, for the common good of society and children in particular.
The issue isn’t benefits, it is marriage. Local folks can decide benefits. This is about the meaning of marriage, our most basic social institution for protecting children.
I agree that the rates of divorce are too high and need to be addressed. High rates of divorce are one more reason we should be strengthening marriage, not conducting radical social experiments on it.
In regards to the argument that gays can’t be good parents, I would just say that two men might each be a good father, but neither can be a mom. The ideal for children is the love of their own mom and dad. No same-sex couple can provide that.
I think it is seventy percent of black voters in California who voted to institutionalize discrimination into the state constitution.
Bigots and haters come in all colors. You white bigots should find yourself in good company with the black bigots, hispanic bigots, asian bigots, etc.
And what do you all have in common? The god of hate.
He/she must be so proud of all of you.
Professional victims never like to admit they have it good while others are TRULY victimized.
…and as long as gay people continue to be wimps and cowards and let people like gail finney do the things she did to Inga Taylor…
We’ll never get anywhere.
Cowards.
Self loathing is not helpful to any civil rights movement.
And speaking of the hateful gail finney….
Proof that bigots and low lifes come in all colors.
But in this country, they mainly come from one religion. The church of hate and bigotry, otherwise known as chrisitans.
Well, I’m not gay. So, I don’t really have a dog in the fight beyond…
I don’t feel the need to make laws against people who are doing me no harm.
The people who DO have a problem with gay marriage tend to be people I find contemptible for other reasons.
Now that alone gets me interested as I have never liked self righteous bullies. But THEN comes along something like…
“Marriage is about bringing together men and women so children can have mothers and fathers.”
As a single parent, that SOUNDS like a swing at me waiting to happen.
My ex common law wife was a rather poor parent. But she DID manage to get herself married. Should my kid be taken from me and given to her just because she is married?
See? You’ve made it my fight. Because if you can discriminate against one group of people based on your own prejudices, I’m fairly confident you’ll get an appetite for more.
So gweber, how about we eliminate marriage for those unwilling or unable to produce children?
And how about YOU give up the financial benefits of how your marriage is treated by the government?
Somehow, I think gweber doesnt want equality. Superiority and bigotry suit him/her just fine.
Nitwits.
Hateful nitwits.
If the hood fits… Dont forget to embroider a cross on it!
This will never be resolved without guns. And I’m locked and loaded for bigot season.
The “Appeal to Tradition” is a logical fallacy.
If we must maintain tradition, we’d still be allowing slavery, men-only workplaces, whites-only neighborhoods.
There is not a single legal argument against gay-marriage. None. The only argument against gay-marriage is possibly a religious one, and religion–by design–is to play no role in the governance of The United States.
The people who oppose gay-marriage will be forever cast by history into the same garbage pile as such hate groups as the KKK.
“Ah, yes, the traditional family values of Saudi Arabia and Iran.”
And apparently, you can add america to that list.
“The people who oppose gay-marriage will be forever cast by history into the same garbage pile as such hate groups as the KKK.”
oh HELL no.
They are revered in america. Especially in the churches.
Another lazy thread for the WE editorial staff.
Do you all just enjoy giving the bigots a platform?
I guess, when you cant come up with anything else…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:57 am | Permalink
This will never be resolved without guns. And I’m locked and loaded for bigot season.
————-
Does that season open Dec. 1. Do you wear a rainbow colored vest instead of blaze orange? I am trying to find a reason to purchase a new gun. What caliber is recommended for bigots, KFG? Bigot jerky?
phcuk you anti
KSfarmgrrl–
The Gail Finney-Inga Taylor thing was a real mess from the get go.
The story I heard was that Finney wasn’t going to run . . . then she DID run.
Taylor didn’t do herself any favors by taking some 38 thousands dollars from an out-of-state PAC. It looked like she was trying to buy the seat without local support.
There is two sides to that story . . .
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
Martin Luther King
gweber
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:27 am | Permalink
Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.
—
And exactly how will a gay marriage affect your heterosexual marriage?
phcuk you anti
Without lubrication.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:04 am | Permalink
phcuk you anti
——————–
Just crackin’ a joke KFG. Did not mean to be offensive. Jeebus.
How’s the feathered peckers?
Oh yeah, because FUND RAISING in political campaigns is such a BAD thing….
She’s a bigot, and homophobe and a democrat.
Nice trifecta.
NOTHING Inga Taylor did was wrong. She raised money for a race. And NOW that’s a bad thing?
Maybe if betts would have gotten off his ass and raised money like Inga did, he wouldnt be a loser today.
jesus wept
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:53 am | Permalink
And speaking of the hateful gail finney….
Proof that bigots and low lifes come in all colors.
But in this country, they mainly come from one religion. The church of hate and bigotry, otherwise known as chrisitans.
—
To be fair, not all Christians are hateful and bigoted. From what I’ve seen firsthand, the Evangelical Christians are the main ones fighting this fight and raking in alot of money in support from their faithful and loyal foot soldiers.
Perhaps it is more about the money than the actual issue?
Oh, I guess I was incorrect. Inga Taylor did something VERY wrong.
She was a lesbian running as a democrat for a black seat.
She should have known better.
“The bigots are revered in the churches”
True enough . . . in SOME churches.
My church, the American Episcopal, got torn in half over this issue, but the pro-gay side is thriving.
As for the other churches, remember, it was a consortium of pastors, priests and rabbis who wrote the original letter calling M.L. King’s protests “unwise and untimely.”
His response was “the Letter from Birmingham Jail.”
The churches are always on the side of the rich and powerful, with too few execeptions.
Even the Catholics who used to preach “liberation theology” have now been co-opted by the right-to-life patriarchy.
By firsthand, I mean that I used to be in that group when they first started getting power (in the mid ’70’s). I saw then where this mindset was going and I got out from that group. Some of these people are good people, they are just misguided and now they are in that mindset of having their preacher pat them on their hand and telling them they are ‘better than that one over there.’
It is a source of comfort and they feel special. Of course, their leaders are as crooked as a dog’s hind legs but somehow these people don’t care.
But seriously KFG, when can I buy my game tag?
I gonna shoot me a bigot!!!
“As for the other churches, remember, it was a consortium of pastors, priests and rabbis who wrote the original letter calling M.L. King’s protests “unwise and untimely.”
His response was “the Letter from Birmingham Jail.”
Oh PULEEEEZE!
Gay people are not black people, and no gay person could ever be a REAL black person. Remember?
gweber the bigot says:
“I agree that the rates of divorce are too high and need to be addressed. High rates of divorce are one more reason we should be strengthening marriage, not conducting radical social experiments on it.”
So your solution is to force divorce upon 18,000 people. So far a step in the wrong direction. Divorce rates are lowest among Atheists so the best thing would be for everyone to give up religion. But then, Atheists tend not to have a problem with gay marriage (since there is no dogma telling us to execute gays).
To get an idea of how much a bigot you are you say this,
“Love is a great thing. But marriage isn’t just any kind of love; it’s the special love of husband and wife for each other and their children.”
So now gays are incapable of love. How very quaint. What’s next, you are going to say they grow horns out their heads? I don’t know if you are aware but having kids isn’t some indicator of relationship success, nor is it a qualification of marriage. You’ve excluded marriage for the elderly and sterile. Maybe you’ll pass a law requiring males to submit a sperm sample in order to test for reproductive ability? What will you loons come up with next?
Not surprising that in California the religious nuts wanted to pass a law that would bar homosexuals from teaching in public schools (bar a group from teaching, where have I heard that before?). Thankfully the governor at the time vetoed the legislation, that guy was Ronald Reagan. Not even the conservative hero of the Republican party is as big of a bigot as the anti-marriage religious nuts out there.
She was a lesbian running as a lesbian with gay pac money funding her campaign.
The people in her district wanted a representative.
Maybe if she had run as a representative instead of a lesbian she would have had better luck.
But anyway, as long as Finney runs, Finney will win. That’s a given for that district.
We got a protest coming against Prop 102 Saturday here in AZ. Any ideas for a sign?
“Some of these people are good people, they are just misguided”
The same could be said for the KKK, the Minutemen, and the folks who imprisoned the Japanese during WWII.
A bigot is a bigot. But thanks for dressing it up and giving them cover.
Rage
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:14 am | Permalink
We got a protest coming against Prop 102 Saturday here in AZ. Any ideas for a sign?
—————-
“We want to be in an unhappy marriage too!”
“She was a lesbian running as a lesbian with gay pac money funding her campaign”
Please provide proof she was “running as a lesbian”.
If she was a christian running with christian pac money, would that have been ok?
Why are you defending bigots? Why are you making excuses for them? Are you DENYING that what gail finney did was wrong?
Hell, folks who run under the KKK banner win in their districts too. Does that make it ok?
The same could be said for the KKK, the Minutemen, and the folks who imprisoned the Japanese during WWII.
==============
What the fuk is wrong with the minutemen? Hater.
Marlon Riggs’ 1989 semi-documentary film Tongues Untied seeks, in its author’s words to, “…shatter the nation’s brutalising silence on matters of sexual and racial difference.” The film blends documentary footage with personal account and fiction in an attempt to depict the specificity of black gay identity. The “silence” referred to throughout the film is that of black gay men who are unable to express themselves because of the prejudices of white and black heterosexual society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongues_Untied
““I agree that the rates of divorce are too high and need to be addressed. High rates of divorce are one more reason we should be strengthening marriage, not conducting radical social experiments on it.”
Why dont the churches propose a constitutional amendment banning divorce?
Or would that catch too many of you christian bigots in your own trap?
“We want to be in an unhappy marriage too!”
But I’m (more or less) happily single. Unlike KFG, I have that choice.
If the argument in favor of same sex marraige is a valid one, then, it must be able to withstand the test of logic, and intellectual honesty.
They have a ‘right’ to marry anyone they choose because: a) they want to marry that person, and, b) it’s discrimminatory to deny them that ‘right’.
Correct? Ok.
Well, I want to marry my mother. She wants to marry me. Two consenting adults, right?
Ergo, we have a ‘right’ to get married. Denying us that ‘right’ is discrimmination. Denying us that ‘right’ makes you a bigot.
It doesn’t matter if you think that union is oogy or not, it is what we, as consenting adults, want to do.
The same logic, and intellectual honesty, applies to my sister, or even my 18 year old daughter.
I challenge anyone to find a legitimate flaw in that argument. The key word is legitimate.
Do you want a tissue KFG? Bigot.
Incest?
heheheheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
The mindset of a true christian. Logic?
Why not ask about man on dog sex?
Eric sanford, you are jealous and want to screw your mother.
What a GOOD example you are!
The PAC that was practically her sole source of funding supported her because they wanted a gay person in the Kansas Statehouse.
That’s fine. That’s their right.
But it’s also the voters’ right to say, “is this ‘identity politics’ stuff my first priority?”
Because it’s not for me. I’m more concerned with experience and policy.
Sanford, you want to marry your mom or your sister? You need to get out a bit more. I wonder if your mom and sister feel the same way about you? Perv. Have a happy marriage.
But I’m (more or less) happily single. Unlike KFG, I have that choice.
========================
I could care less if homos marry. I still think it’s wrong, but I am not going to stop them.
Oh, and Eric? I dont care if you want to have sex with your mother. If she gives her consent, knock yourself out. Jesus must be so proud…
Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
10/21/99
——————————————————————————–
Most of the nation has not heard about two homosexual men who face the death penalty in Arkansas, charged with raping and torturing a 13-year-old boy to death last month.
The brutal crime against Prairie Grove, Ark., seventh-grader Jesse Dirkhising — who was raped repeatedly and suffocated with his own underwear in the pre-dawn hours of Sept. 26 — was reported by news organizations in Arkansas and also covered by newspapers in Oklahoma and Tennessee.
But the boy’s death did not receive national media attention. Tim Graham, director of media analysis for the Media Research Center, said he is not surprised.
“Nobody wants to say anything negative about homosexuals. Nobody wants to be seen on the wrong side of that issue,” said Mr. Graham, who sees “political correctness” at work.
But David Smith, spokesman for a major homosexual lobbying group, the Human Rights Campaign, said Thursday of the Jesse Dirkhising case: “This has nothing to do with gay people.”
The muted press reaction to the Dirkhising slaying starkly contrasts with coverage of the murder of Matthew Shepard, a homosexual University of Wyoming freshman who was beaten to death last October.
http://www.dadi.org/wt_brape.htm
Always two sides to every story. We have heard the Matthew Shepard story nation wide over and over again. How many of you heard about this boy’s death.
I’m not trying to justify anything but there is a reason Arkansas voted the way they did. There are usually two sides to most stories.
———————–
Raptor
Posted November 13, 2008 at 7:09 am | Permalink
I know some gay couples that have been together longer than a lot of hetero marriages…yet they cannot act on each other’s behalf, they cannot legally sign contracts for each other, they cannot make medical decisions for the other like “legally” married people.
Ridiculous attack on people because of fear or stupidity..not sure which one.
———–
Raptor another strawman argument. None of this is true. In fact it is flat out prevaricating in most if not all of what you said.
Legal union are legal in CA. A simple piece of paper takes care of these issues. I preformed these functions for my mom and all we needed was a documented signature on a form. A $5 notary fee took care of that.
This issue isn’t as simple as many here would like to make it as I have said ad nauseum.
Oh PULEEEZE!
“But it’s also the voters’ right to say, “is this ‘identity politics’ stuff my first priority?”
Yeah, the black community of wichita rejects “identity politics”.
Uh huh. Unless it is THEIR identity, it isnt valid.
When is the last time a white person won that seat?
Identity politics indeed.
It’s just plain bigotry. And hypocrisy.
But thanks for defending it.
Finney could NOT have won that seat without running as a homophobe?
Nice to know that homophobia is a prerequisite to holding that seat.
Still no proof that Inga “ran as a lesbian”?
Finney ran as a bigot.
And it was a WINNING strategy for both her and the democrats.
Well, I want to marry my mother. She wants to marry me. Two consenting adults, right?
Red herring. Do you actually know someone who wants to marry their mother? And the genetic issues which (rightly or wrongly) support such a ban are absent with two unrelated adults.
Let me guess what’s next: brother and sister?
You’re avoiding the subject because you don’t want to discuss the reality of ugly discrimination. You don’t need an analogy. Look a the reality!
Oh, wait. You said you did. Well, take that argument up with Legislature. I hope you and Mom are happy together.
“Oh, and Eric? I dont care if you want to have sex with your mother. If she gives her consent, knock yourself out. Jesus must be so proud…”
And besides, Eric Sanford, you dont need to be married to have sex with your mama.
You can already do it. And there are always lawyers and contracts to give you the same rights as married people.
So what is stopping you now from marrying yo mama?
Who gets harmed? The people of California who lose their right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that’s who. That is just not right.
Legal argument: Non-profit groups like the Salvation Army may lose their tax exemptions, or be denied the use of parks and other public facilities, unless they endorse gay marriage.
Public schools will teach young children that two men being intimate are just the same as a husband and wife, even when it comes to raising kids.
When the idea that children need moms and dads get legally stigmatized as bigotry, the job of parents trying to transmit a marriage culture to their kids is going to get a lot harder. One thing is for sure: The people of California would lose their right to keep marriage as the union of a husband and wife. That’s not right.
May I ask a question. If we endorse and legalize same-sex marriage, should we not also endorse and legalize polyamory–”groups” of men and women in a legally recognized union?
Regarding the financial aspect of marriage, it’s called the marriage PENALTY in the tax code for a reason. There is very little, if any, “benefit” to marriage in the eyes of the IRS.
Every man and woman who marries is capable of giving any child they create (or adopt) a mother and a father. No same-sex couple can do this. It’s apples and oranges.
To the single parent (and how do you know that I am not one myself?), all I can say is, in your heart or hearts, you know that it would be best for your child if they lived in a household with a mother and father. Having experienced the pain of divorce and single parenthood myself, I have an idea of where you are at. But I ask, how does legalizing same-sex marriage help our kids? Do you agree–do you not ALL agree–that the very best department of health, education and welfare is a stable, non-violent household with a mother AND a father rearing our children?
Final thought…not one time have I mentioned “religion,” and I ask you to consider that is it possible gweber is an atheist? Agnostic? Jew? Catholic? Democrat who voted for Obama? (like Californians). Black? Gay?
If your arguments and tactics nationally are similar to those on this blog, then civil discourse in indeed dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDHL9NZ1lQQ
Rage
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:14 am | Permalink
We got a protest coming against Prop 102 Saturday here in AZ. Any ideas for a sign?
—————————
How about:
‘The people voted and we refuse to listen’
‘We won’t take no for an answer’
Before I invest my passion to a cause, I ask myself…
Can I win?
Who gets hurt?
Observation over the last 30 years tells me that gay marriage IS going to happen. It may take another year or two or ten. But it will be reality.
WHEN it is, I fail to see (can you show me?) how anyone is hurt by it.
In the meantime? People ARE hurting. People are investing a great deal of time and emotion hurting others in a frankly silly cause that is already lost.
Who gets harmed? The people of California who lose their right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that’s who.
Translation: It’s “harm” because you lose the “right” to control other people’s lives, even though it will have absolutely no effect on your own.
gee weber, the more you post, the more you confirm your bigotry.
But please, keep making your stupid arguments not rooted in logic.
It sure gives us insight into your character.
Jesus must be SO proud of all of you.
You must be a democrat in wichita.
KFG is a hate filled bigot.
Your post prove it.
Frankly, “Sanford” –
Apart from the ookieness factor, I don’t have a legitimate reason to oppose your passion to marry your mother or your sister or your daughter.
God didn’t have much against polygamy in the Old Testament, so who am I to argue?
What consenting adults do in bed is of no concern to me unless I’m one of them.
And if you want to codify the ookieness factor, let’s outlaw skinny guys marrying fat chicks or hot chicks from marrying old rich ugly dudes.
Perhaps we should make ookieness a states’ rights issue. Idaho might accept Demi and Ashton, but Alabama can pass the Anti-Cougar Ookieness Act of 2012.
If the “sanctity of marriage” is really your goal, “ksfarmgrrl’s” constitutional ban of divorce seems to better address it. Unless of course you think maybe Constitutional Government specifically is not supposed to be in the sanctity business.
“‘The people voted and we refuse to listen’
‘We won’t take no for an answer’”
How about “the mormans, the catholics, and the blacks have spoken with their dollars”.
And as for “We wont take no for an answer”
HOW many times have you wingnuts brought this up for a vote in both CA and AZ?
WHO wont take no from an answer?
Your protest sign should be “we dont respect the courts or the rule of law”.
Idiot.
If slavery were on the ballot, it would pass.
But then, that would probably suit grmies mother marrying bigoted heart just fine.
Where is your marriage to your mama recorded?
You never did answer my questions about social security and health insurance obtained with that “five dollar piece of paper”.
LIAR!
Here Farmie, let me help you with your arguement.
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
BIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOTBIGOT
pointless to have a debate on this issue. no matter your reason for opposing gay marriage you are a BIGOT!!!
gweber, a gay couple in CT is getting married today? Did that physically hurt you? Did that compel you to, like Eric Sanford, to have a threesome with his mom and sister? Did that present a desire for you to have sex with other men? Did that nullify your marriage?
The only harm that you presented is that you aren’t able to bash gays as much if they have the same rights as you. That’s why you’re a bigot.
I already gave you my reply anti. Did it take THAT short a time for you to phcuk yourself?
If slavery were on the ballot, it would pass.
————
Yeah, 70% of the blacks would go for that.
“pointless to have a debate on this issue. no matter your reason for opposing gay marriage you are a BIGOT!!!”
I couldnt agree more.
I cant wait to vote on something important to you.
Guns. That’s the only answer. This issue wont die until every bigot is dead. And then probably not, since they pass their bigotry on to their children.
We have laws against marrying within the family because of genetic concerns and societal ookiness. However, the mother-son/daughter relationship already has automatic privileges, such as inheritance, and in some cases, S.S. support until a child turns 18 or finishes college (with limits.) Now as for sister-brother relationships, or brother-brother relationships, or sister-sister relationships I see nothing wrong with it. Shagging your willing adult sister is your business, and no one else’s and has no moral connotation whatsoever. It is no different than shagging anyone else. Flesh gets rubbed, and exudates ensue. There’s no more really to it. Your example fails on one point. No one wants to marry his/her sister/brother/mother/father, or if so, only one or two people in the whole nation, so let them. Where’s the harm? I don’t see any harm in bigamy, as long as all parties know.
As for gays, and their marriages, and their troubles and their problems, I just don’t give a damn one way or another. If they want to marry legally, that’s fine with me. It’s like religion. I just don’t care.
Here’s my only concern. Do what you want, but don’t make me pay for it. That’s the problem with Gay marriage. Another ten million blubbering squalling petitioners will be added to the federal rolls. We simply can’t afford gay marriage. Negotiate the goddamned details with your employer, not me.
KFG, take your self pleasuring bigotry some where else. Bigot.
Here’s a big funder of the movement to ban marriage.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/12/top-prop-8-donor-funded-gay-execution-proponent/
His goal is to create a theocracy where gays are executed. Nice bedfellows you guys have.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:58 am | Permalink
“Ah, yes, the traditional family values of Saudi Arabia and Iran.”
And apparently, you can add america to that list.
—————————————————-
You can’t be serious.
If you are it’s a large part of the problem with what you might call the militant-homosexual community.
Get off the cross, someone else needs the wood.
Here’s my only concern. Do what you want, but don’t make me pay for it. That’s the problem with Gay marriage. Another ten million blubbering squalling petitioners will be added to the federal rolls. We simply can’t afford gay marriage. Negotiate the goddamned details with your employer, not me.
============
Well said.
The people have spoken KFG. Quit bitching.
“in your heart or hearts, you know that it would be best for your child if they lived in a household with a mother and father. ”
And?
Shall we have laws as to that?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:53 am | Permalink
And speaking of the hateful gail finney….
Proof that bigots and low lifes come in all colors.
But in this country, they mainly come from one religion. The church of hate and bigotry, otherwise known as chrisitans.
————————————
You have a lot to learn little girl. I for one, don’t have a problem with gay marriage. But I also don’t feel the need to spew hate at anyone who actually has the gall to have their own opinion. I’ve known a lot of Christians, and have known them to mostly be good people. Of the Christians I’ve known, some have supported gay marriage, and some have opposed it. The ones that opposed it didn’t come from a standpoint of hate or bigotry. Theirs was a genuine concern for people’s behavior. So, when you and your cohorts come on here spewing filth and hatred towards anyone with an opposing viewpoint, and actually resort to name calling, you draw attention to your own ignorance. Your childish behavior actually does a disservice to any valid argument you may have.
I should have just cut and pasted what monkey hawk wrote.
Here’s my only concern. Do what you want, but don’t make me pay for it. That’s the problem with Gay marriage. Another ten million blubbering squalling petitioners will be added to the federal rolls. We simply can’t afford gay marriage. Negotiate the goddamned details with your employer, not me.
What the hell are you talking about? To the extent your argument approaches anything coherent, it’s an argument for banning marriage entirely.
Funny how all these “small government” conservatives love big government when it means oppressing people they don’t like.
KFG
“Guns. That’s the only answer. This issue wont die until every bigot is dead. And then probably not, since they pass their bigotry on to their children.”
I’m not sure if you understood my point.
But you certainly added emphasis to it.
Maggotpunk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:46 am | Permalink
Funny how all these “small government” conservatives love big government when it means oppressing people they don’t like.
==============
You are soooo gay. Go to Connecticut.
Farmie you are a small minded bigot on this issue and shouldn’t call others names. It is now and will always be a heated issue.
As for the courts speaking – well in this country the people have the power or they used to. That is why we have elections. The courts interpret existing laws. It is not their right to overthrow legal elections and the people of CA just told them that.
We will see how it play out.
all of “God’s-children” throwing sand in the box — tisk tisk !! when you mortals ever learn — sounds to me that all of “God’s-children” need a good spanking — peace and harmony — peace and harmony — the Earth has begun to heal — the seas no longer rising — Obama-bin-Biden here to save us all ———- not
“Another ten million blubbering squalling petitioners will be added to the federal rolls. We simply can’t afford gay marriage. Negotiate the goddamned details with your employer, not me.”
Fine.
Let’s take off all the “Blubbering squalling” STRAIGHT spouses off the federal welfare wagon first.
Welfare for straight people = good.
Marriage benefits for gay people = bad
And you call ME the bigot?
heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.
Let’s REALLY save some money and end civil marriage for straight people too!!!!!!
I mean, since you can get ALL the benefits of marriage with a five dollar piece of paper.
“You are soooo gay. Go to Connecticut.”
???
Can someone with a brain translate Anti’s rambling?
Funny how all these “small government” conservatives love big government when it means oppressing people they don’t like.
They’ve never favored small government, MP. The history of Reagan and W. conclusively proves that.
That was just rhetoric to help them loot the treasury, and kill off government programs they don’t like.
My experience with “christians” is that they are NOT good people.
So… is my experience as valid as yours?
Why do I think not?
Guns. Firebombs. Mayhem. Churches.
They all kinda go together, no?
I mean, since you can get ALL the benefits of marriage with a five dollar piece of paper.
————
You’ve been married, how did that work out?
But in this country, they mainly come from one religion. The church of hate and bigotry, otherwise known as chrisitans.
No, not true, many denominations support gay rights.
Moneyhawk- you’re pretty close.
As I thought, the others are just throwing invectives and ignoring the precariousness of their own argument for gay marraige.
Ok, let’s try again. Those in favor of gay marriage, destroy my argument.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
My experience with “christians” is that they are NOT good people.
So… is my experience as valid as yours?
Why do I think not?
Guns. Firebombs. Mayhem. Churches.
They all kinda go together, no?
=================
KFG, remember you are the one advocating killing people.
Sanford, when was the last time you had sex with your mom?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:15 am | Permalink
“Some of these people are good people, they are just misguided”
The same could be said for the KKK, the Minutemen, and the folks who imprisoned the Japanese during WWII.
A bigot is a bigot. But thanks for dressing it up and giving them cover.
–
Actually, I was not giving them cover, as you put it. I was simply saying that not all Christians are bigots.
If you would read all my postings on this issue, I am actually on your side. I see nothing wrong with gay marriage as it has nothing to do with my own heterosexual marriage.
As for the KKK, Minuteman and folks who imprisoned the Japanese during WWII – those are people making the actual choice of going out and choosing to act out their hate and bigotry in physical acts of violence. Misguided church people are simply those that sit in a church pew every Sunday and are oblivious to what is really happening – some by choice and some by being ignorant?
To me, that is a big difference.
“To the extent your argument approaches anything coherent, it’s an argument for banning marriage entirely.”
I agree.
Let’s ban civil marriage for all.
I mean, grmie can get you all the benefits for a five dollar piece of paper.
She says it’s the same.
Are you calling grmie a liar?
Ok, let’s try again. Those in favor of gay marriage, destroy my argument.
Someone else with reading comprehension issues.
“beber” attempts to define –
“…the problem with Gay marriage. Another ten million blubbering squalling petitioners will be added to the federal rolls.”
But… but…
I thought you homophobes said gay couples “…already have the same rights…” as married heterosexuals. Now you drag out marriage-based Social Security benefits as a reason to deny recognition of same-gender unions?
Let’s forget for a moment that most same-gender couples earn two (or more) incomes. Widows’ and Disability and dependents’ benefits are obviously different if you believe there would be “another ten million…petitioners…”
And even if your “ten million” number weren’t pulled out of your butt (which it was), that’s hardly a drop in the bucket in a population approaching 350 million.
Of course “ANTI” liked your comment. “ANTI” has been handed his bigoted butt to him so many time this morning you could dust it for prints.
“To me, that is a big difference.”
Obviously. Because you are not gay.
To me?
The results are the same.
When christian churches stop their bigotry, I’ll stop calling them bigots.
Good people under the cover of “the church”.
IOKIYAAC
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
My experience with “christians” is that they are NOT good people.
So… is my experience as valid as yours?
Why do I think not?
Guns. Firebombs. Mayhem. Churches.
They all kinda go together, no?
================
MH, I said I don’t care if you homos want to get married.
How is that bigotry?
Of course “ANTI” liked your comment. “ANTI” has been handed his bigoted butt to him so many time this morning you could dust it for prints.
——————
Ooops!
MH, I said I don’t care if you homos want to get married.
How is that bigotry?
Maggotpunk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:52 am | Permalink
Sanford, when was the last time you had sex with your mom?
That’s not the issue. And, you know it.
Because I was married to a man and then divorced, that invalidates the argument for gay marriage?
hehehhe. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
See? No logic. Just bigotry.
Sanford, why do you want to have sex with your mother? Is that something you learned in church? From your bible?
I guess the bible experts here are right. Who knew that god loves incest?
better figures than what you no doubt pull out of yours seven or eight times a week, Monkey.
Give me an escalation point.
“That’s not the issue. And, you know it.”
Uh, eric sanford?
YOU made it the issue, not us.
We just dealt with it appropriately.
Tell me again, why do you want to marry your mother? Does she know about this?
ANTI
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:43 am | Permalink
The people have spoken KFG. Quit bitching.
—
The same could be said about Obama’s winning the election. The people have spoken ANTI. Quit bitching.
Beber, why wont you address the issue of banning civil marriage for ALL?
I mean, if you really want to save money and all…
I’m tired of paying for YOUR benefits too!
Christian churches I have attended are not bigoted.
Homosexuals are welcome in the Christian church.
As are all sinners.
The same could be said about Obama’s winning the election. The people have spoken ANTI. Quit bitching.
==========
Not bitching….Getting ready for a big “I told you so!”
“Ok, let’s try again. Those in favor of gay marriage, destroy my argument.”
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You arent that important to do it all over. AGAIN.
It’s been destroyed. Only someone who cant read, or is being willfully stupid, would ask for it all over.
Again.
Just because you dont accept it doesnt mean it hasnt been shown to be the logical error it is.
ksfarmgrrl… How is the scenario I put forward any different from what you advocate?
Aren’t we on the exact same side? The side of free choice without gov’t limitations?
Why do gays seek majority approval to legitimize their relationship?
Why does what the majority think the definition of marriage is matter to two people who are in love? Do gays need a majority to legitimize their relationship?
If the whole world calls a same sex union marriage does that mean it is any more of a marriage then if only a minority calls it such?
Odly enough, farmgrrl thinks that a majority needs to approve of her relationship and call it a marriage in order for her relationship to be considered an actual marriage.
Why is this so?
Furthermore, once the majority votes in a way that does not view her relationship as a marriage, she blows a top and shows her bigotted intolerance for those who disagree with her and pretends to be suffering some unknown civil rights abuses.
Instead she should just ignore the masses and get married in the manner she chooses. Ultimately what everybody elses thinks does not matter.
If it does matter THAT much, then Move. Find a country where the majority thinks marriage is what you define it as. That way you can relax with the knowledge that your majority approved marriage is indeed a marriage.
Me advocating killing people?
heheheh.
Well… I was raised as a christian by christian parents in a christian church.
Something about raise up a child with the church teachings and they will not stray from it?
Sounds like I’m just an apple that didnt fall far from the christian “tree”.
Grmie, why wont you answer the question about your marriage to yo mama?
It’s only a five dollar question.
The problem is that those “good people” are entirely too comfortable with their unchallenged prejudices. There were plenty of “good people” in the 60s who were quite comfortable with the civil rights status quo for blacks, drinking fountains and all. They weren’t the ones putting on robes and lynching people. They simple accepted it, as if it was morally defensible, because everyone around them was. And give it a nice dose of foul religious dogma, and you have God the Heavenly Bigot on your side.
Similarly, most of the good Germans under Hitler didn’t work in the concentration camps, but were quite happy to buy into the most hateful, supremacist ideologies. Their hands all went up a the same time.
These “good people” know very well that they are hurting people. They just don’t care.
They need to be shamed into caring.
Plus, check out the health care costs of gay men vs. the rest of us. Gay chicks, also. Astronomical. I would pay for massive programs dealing with preventive health and A.I.D.s research, but damn it, there IS something to what the Right says about personal responsibility. You can be gay responsibly, just as I can be an old fart responsibly. I would support adoption of children by gay couples, and full gmt. benefits for those children, the same as other kids.
Rage this is hardly comparable to burning jews and hanging blacks.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
My experience with “christians” is that they are NOT good people.
So… is my experience as valid as yours?
Why do I think not?
Guns. Firebombs. Mayhem. Churches.
They all kinda go together, no?
————————————–
It’s unfortunate that you’ve had a bad experience with Christians. My guess is that you’ve had many bad experiences in life, no doubt due to your own attitude. I always find it a shame to see someone who is so filled with hate. Again, you really aren’t helping your argument when you call people names. All it does is show how childish you are behaving and makes people think you can’t make a valid, logical argument.
Sanford says
“That’s not the issue. And, you know it.”
Hey, you’re the one who wants to have sex with your mom. Does the thought of gays getting married turn you on and the first thought that comes to you mind is that you can have sex with your mom within the bounds of a marriage contract?
“Sanford” wrote –
“Moneyhawk- you’re pretty close.”
Pretty close?
Sounds like you don’t want to address any of the points I presented.
Address my response. Tell me what “pretty close” means regarding my post and maybe we can clear up your misunderstanding.
Don’t go whining about others’ alleged “invectives.”
You claim yours and my opinions are pretty close. So let’s address those differences.
Don’t run away from me in hopes of finding a lesser foe with “…let’s try again.”
How ’bout you step up to the response I presented? Afraid? Woefully lacking ammunition for a battle of logic and wits?
Detail for the forum how you and I “are pretty close” on the issues you presented. Address the differences and we’ll discuss them.
My friend farmgrrl is righteous in her indignation.
I can only imagine how it must feel to have laws made against you just based on who you are. I can only TRY to understand how that must feel.
The other side of the debate puzzles me more.
Fighting against gay marriage is a lost cause that helps no one and hurts many.
Can one of the “enlightened” among you make me understand what drives you? Your cause is hopeless. You will lose. Your fight is for nothing and is hurtful to people who do you no wrong.
How does that feel?
So beber, why not abolish aids treatment for straight people?
Sure would thin out the black bigots.
And all the christian bigots on the down low.
If saving money is your goal, let’s abolish those medical benefits for straight fat people, and old people.
Do you know how much OLD people cost us?
And kids. Let’s abolish health care for kids. I’m tired of irresponsible kids getting kicked in the head by horses.
I’m sure heckie would agree.
You never did answer my questions about social security and health insurance obtained with that “five dollar piece of paper”.
LIAR!
——————
So Farmie it is all about the money. Now we are getting to the truth of the argument. As for the $5 piece of paper you could hire a lawyer to draw it up for you and it would cost a lot more. I was just telling you how easy it is to legally be on any document.
As for benefits, the SS issue is really the only one that would be determined federally. The benefits issue would be at an employer level unless we have socialized medicine and this will become a moot point because each individual will have their own benefits.
The gay community just won’t admit that it is the tag ‘marriage’ they want. BTW where is your comment on the boy brutally murdered in Arkansas. We certainly heard you ad nauseum on Matthew Shepherd which was dispicable, the act not hearing about it from you. As for Finney, are you saying it is ok for her opposition to be funded by the gay community PAC but not right for churches to fund the passing of prop 8?
Just curious. I am trying to get the standards straight here. OK for gay men to torture boys but wrong for straight men to torture gay man. OK for gay PAC to finance candidate, wrong for churches to finance passing prop 8.
As for ‘all the Christian people I know are hateful bigots’ – well mom, who is on your side had to call you down for your nasty sharky attitude so maybe you are just getting back what you give.
okobserver
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:48 am | Permalink
Farmie you are a small minded bigot on this issue and shouldn’t call others names. It is now and will always be a heated issue.
As for the courts speaking – well in this country the people have the power or they used to. That is why we have elections. The courts interpret existing laws. It is not their right to overthrow legal elections and the people of CA just told them that.
We will see how it play out.
–
Why does it always have to be a heated issue? Let the legislature decide what is the law. Elections are just the opinions of people – or are you now saying that elections are the law of the land?
If so, then Obama was elected president and by law you should stop all your nasty name calling of the next president-elect.
Let’s see how this plays out?
How about some facts beber? How much does “gay” healthcare cost you?
And how much does “straight” health care cost you?
And you still havent addressed ALL the financial benefits taxpayers can get by abolishing civil marriage for all?
nitwit
Pervert child sex lover AND a nitwit
We already discussed this. Take the “M” word away from the government. Give it to the churches and the churches alone. The government uses “Civil Unions” that accounts for a union between to consenting unrelated adults.
Problem solved.
First, Americans did not vote an African-American into the office of the President of the United States of America. If Mr. Obama were anything but American, according to the U.S. Constitution he could not hold the office. Also, what makes Mr. Obama more black than white? Is it because he plays basketball and not football? Is it because his wife is black? He is just as much white as he is black.
As far as the separation of church and state: our country was founded on Christian principles. The separation that is to be maintained is that the state shall not show a preference to one particular faith as England was doing at the time (he Church of England). The banning of gay marriage is a true reflection of the preference of the people of California and the proponents can’t stand it that the people have spoken. Wouldn’t it be interesting to poll the voters to discover the basis of their decision?
As for any bible reference, that would only apply to those people that believe in the words of the book. One cannot expect everyone to choose a lifestyle that is Christian based if they are not Christians. However, those that have chosen to preach the gospel of Jesus must preach all of it and not leave out the parts that they do not deem relevant to their situation. In particular, church leaders. How can a church leader interpret that gay marriage is anything but condemned by God? An entire civilization was wiped from the face of the earth because they were convicted of the unnatural use of their bodies.
Romans 1:25-27 (New International Version)
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
It has already been stated in other posts; the origin of marriage is God based. The first recollections of marriage are found in the historical documents related to the Holy Bible. If homosexuals wish to be legally enjoined then it must be in a manner that is outside of the function of a church. To permit a homosexual marriage in a church setting is completely opposite of the teachings of every major form of faith.
The Muslim faith believes that homosexuality is a crime against humanity and the form of punishment is specified in Islamic law, the Shari’ah. This is the clerical interpretation of the Koran and the Hadith. It demands the death penalty for both lesbian and gay sex.
…and beber? If gays get married and added to the health insurance plans of employers, wouldnt THAT save you even more money?
nitwit
Rage this is hardly comparable to burning jews and hanging blacks.
The fact that the acts of violence are less prominent does not make them more acceptable. But, at any rate, that’s beside the point.
My point rather was that an odious idea will stick around so long as it has peer support. Americans once thought, overwhelmingly, that slavery was a good thing.
All we’re talking about is giving human beings a chance to live normal lives. The fundamental objection is an arbitrary insistence (religion-based or otherwise) that they be treated as abnormal. Even if you personally believe that, you have no right to use your subjective bias as a means of targeted discrimination.
“Why does it always have to be a heated issue?”
To straight chrisitans like grmie, it’s just an “issue”.
To me? It’s my LIFE, not just an “issue
I’m still waiting to see how I can get ALL the benefits of marriage with a five dollar piece of paper, but grmie seems to have left the blog.
Like she always does when proven to be the bigoted idiot she is.
We already discussed this. Take the “M” word away from the government. Give it to the churches and the churches alone. The government uses “Civil Unions” that accounts for a union between to consenting unrelated adults.
Problem solved.
You’d think so, Sol, but it’s apparent that some people have a problem even with that.
Monkeyhawk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:37 am | Permalink
Frankly, “Sanford” –
Apart from the ookieness factor, I don’t have a legitimate reason to oppose your passion to marry your mother or your sister or your daughter.
God didn’t have much against polygamy in the Old Testament, so who am I to argue?
What consenting adults do in bed is of no concern to me unless I’m one of them.
And if you want to codify the ookieness factor, let’s outlaw skinny guys marrying fat chicks or hot chicks from marrying old rich ugly dudes.
Perhaps we should make ookieness a states’ rights issue. Idaho might accept Demi and Ashton, but Alabama can pass the Anti-Cougar Ookieness Act of 2012.
If the “sanctity of marriage” is really your goal, “ksfarmgrrl’s” constitutional ban of divorce seems to better address it. Unless of course you think maybe Constitutional Government specifically is not supposed to be in the sanctity business.
Moneyhawk, my only difference is your last paragraph. ‘Sanctity of marraige’ is not my goal. My goal is logical consistency of a persons stance.
If they want free choice of whom to marry, then we should all have that same choice across the board. They want to remove the restrictions that hinder them, but want to stop there. They preach high and mighty about bigotry and discrimmination, but, they all freaked at the scenario I put out there, because they think it’s weird. Where’s the consistency in that?
you have no right to use your subjective bias as a means of targeted discrimination.
————–
One more time, I DON’T care if homos get married.
I still think it is wrong, that IS my right.
“Own_Man
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:10 am ”
There ya go black folks. THERE is your christian ally in your bigotry against gay people.
And when “own” and his ilk turn on you?
Dont come to me for a vote or compassion. You are likely to get what you have shown me and mine.
Contempt and bigotry.
What a marriage made in heaven. Own man and the black churches.
You deserve each other.
Moneyhawk, my only difference is your last paragraph. ‘Sanctity of marraige’ is not my goal.
My goal is logical consistency of a persons stance.
If they want free choice of whom to marry, then we should all have that same choice across the board. They want to remove the restrictions that hinder them, but want to stop there. They preach high and mighty about bigotry and discrimmination, but, they all freaked at the scenario I put out there, because they think it’s weird. Where’s the consistency in that?
To me? It’s my LIFE
===========
Go to Connecticut, if it is so damn important to you.
Own-man, America was founded upon the Constitution, not your silly religion.
Maggot I have asked a valid question many times here and have yet to get an answer:
I say a special on this week – One man, two wives, nine children – who qualifies for his SS survivor benefits? Should these wives and any others he chooses to add later all collect. What about the children. These unions normally produce 50 – 60 offspring. Polygomy is alive and will in Utah. They strongly believe in multiple spouses. Where do we draw the line?
Gays say only let us in, polygomists say no we want in too – how to decide. Well this sounds like a choice for the voters not the judges unless we have a clear law that defines marriage that can be intrepreted to clarify this.
I know not one gay will address this because it weakens their argument and they might lose the right to call those that disagree with them bigots.
Hey, Eric Sanford, thanks for CONFIRMING you are a bigot, and idiot, and illiterate.
“If they want free choice of whom to marry, then we should all have that same choice across the board.”
So who’s opposing that?
“They want to remove the restrictions that hinder them, but want to stop there. They preach high and mighty about bigotry and discrimmination, but, they all freaked at the scenario I put out there, because they think it’s weird.”
Well yeah, I think wanting to have sex with your mother IS weird. That’s “my right”, no?
But you are wrong about the “freaked” out part.
I already said I dont care if you want to marry yo mama.
Is there some part of reading that is too hard for you? Marry her, if she consents. It does not harm me.
Mom first show me one place where I have called Obama a name. I have voiced my support of him as our next prez many times.
BTW you are still calling Bush bad names. Just did so today. When will you stop?
Again I ask, as I always do when this issue comes up: What in the world are you anti’s so afraid of?
Dennis
Hey, Eric Sanford, thanks for CONFIRMING you are a bigot, and idiot, and illiterate.
——————-
Sanford, KFG wants you dead.
She is not ‘tolerant’.
Mom Yes I do think elections mean more than judges opinions when said opinions are based on feelings and not on existing laws.
One more time, I DON’T care if homos get married.
I still think it is wrong, that IS my right.
So repeal the marriage amendment. Get government out of people’s bedrooms. Simple, no?
“Gays say only let us in, polygomists say no we want in too – how to decide.”
Grmie, you are so full of “siht” that your eyes must be brown.
There is an EASY way to address all of this. You wont have ANY false decisions on gay vs incest and poligamy.
Abolish civil marriage and all its benefits for everyone.
Why wont you agree to that?
Greed? Or just plain meanness?
My “address” of this does NOT harm my point at all.
Give up your benefits or give me mine. Unless…
You just think you are so naturally superior you DESERVE better treatment under “the law”?
I’m still waiting for you to tell us the benefits of marriage you got from marrying yo mama with a five dollar piece of paper…
Ksfg- Do I have a right to have that marraige approved by the Gov’t? And, accepted legally by all of society?
Mr_Kia
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
Christian churches I have attended are not bigoted.
Homosexuals are welcome in the Christian church.
As are all sinners.
–
There you go again Kia, you would have been just fine if you would have left off the smug ‘as are all sinners’.
Up to that point, you were almost believable. It’s that Evangelical Christian arrogance that is showing – again.
okobserver, being gay isn’t a choice, being a polygamist is. There’s the difference. Gays are asking for marriage like heterosexual couples currently have, they aren’t demanding polygamist marriages like the Bible promotes.
BTW, Utah doesn’t recognize polygamist marriages. It would be nice to get the facts straight.
YellowdogLiberal
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink
Again I ask, as I always do when this issue comes up: What in the world are you anti’s so afraid of?
————-
The ANTI’s are afraid of bears, mainly….Oh and raw sewage….That’s about all.
Grmie, you know in oklahoma they would vote today to legalize jim crow laws again.
Would that be ok with you?
Why do I think it is?
There ya go black community.
Your best friend on this issue.
okobserver
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink
Mom first show me one place where I have called Obama a name. I have voiced my support of him as our next prez many times.
BTW you are still calling Bush bad names. Just did so today. When will you stop?
–
NOne are so blind than those who refuse to see. And if you think you show your support for Obama, then maybe you need a different dictionary for the definition of support?
Oh, “Sanford” –
When you post, “…They want to remove the restrictions that hinder them, but want to stop there,” you reveal your only opposition to Same-Gender Marriage is that the GLBT community isn’t out working for others?
You’re disappointed they aren’t advocating your right to marry your mother, brother, and daughter. Too bad. Let incestuous polygamists fund their own civil rights cause (heaven knows, the Mormons can afford it).
I think that pretty much destroys your argument, as you requested.
Thanks for playing.
And good luck with your cause.
Funny, but notice how the bigots here will NOT address my issues, but just call me names?
Pot, meet kettle.
Why NOT abolish civil marriage and all its benefits?
Why NOT disallow straight married people survivor benefits of SS or having health insurance through the person they have sex with?
No answers, just a lot of bible thumping and bigotry.
ksfarmgrrl,
The truth shall make you free…but, it will probably make you mad first.
Shame on you for making this a racial issue. The truth is; homosexuality is a deviate lifestyle choice. It is a lifestyle that has brought distruction to the moral principle of society.
God doesn’t hate the sinner. He hates sin. God help me to flee from sin. Turn to God and let him set you free from your unnatural desire.
Okie – I never said elections were law (like you just did) and I don’t believe in lying so what else can I do but say how I really feel about Bush?
Besides, Okie, the majority of Americans feel exactly the same way about Bush – so are we all wrong?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:24 am | Permalink
Grmie, you know in oklahoma they would vote today to legalize jim crow laws again.
=============
Bullsh*t.
I think this sums up the anti-marriage/anti-gay argument pretty well.
http://www.snotr.com/video/1839
How does one respond to such brilliant reasoning?
“BTW, Utah doesn’t recognize polygamist marriages. It would be nice to get the facts straight.”
Neither does the mormon church.
And no one is forcing the catholic church to marry divorced people, even though divorce is legal.
Why do they circulate the lie that they would be FORCED to marry gay people in their churches?
Why does the catholic church lie? It makes the baby jesus cry when they lie.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:13 am | Permalink
“Why does it always have to be a heated issue?”
To straight chrisitans like grmie, it’s just an “issue”.
To me? It’s my LIFE, not just an “issue
I’m still waiting to see how I can get ALL the benefits of marriage with a five dollar piece of paper, but grmie seems to have left the blog.
Like she always does when proven to be the bigoted idiot she is.
———————–
You know farmie I don’t run I actually try to put some thought in my posts instead of firing off the top of my head like you do.
When you entire post isn’t made up of calling others names it takes a little longer. I have asked several valid questions today that concern me. You or Rage or Maggot have never addressed them. Take your time. Leave out the name calling. Forget that a valid legal document can be had for as little as $5 and really give an indepth answer to my questions.
mom
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:23 am | Permalink
There you go again Kia, you would have been just fine if you would have left off the smug ‘as are all sinners’.
Up to that point, you were almost believable. It’s that Evangelical Christian arrogance that is showing – again.
————————————————–
There is nothing arrogant about it. You believe the Bible is the Word of God or you don’t.
I’m not saying I am any better in the Lord’s eyes. But it is what it is.
Of course no conversation on this subject would be complete without the institutionalized bigotry of Brent Castillo:
“Gay marriage supporters like to use the term “bigot” for those who oppose them. But King, others involved in the civil rights movement and those who have suffered discrimination understand what true bigotry is. It’s when people don’t treat you as a human because of your genetics, and take away your rights that are guaranteed by our laws.”
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/castillo/story/594744.html
The McClatchy News corporation and the Wichita Eagle think Brent’s bigotry is okay to publish? Apparently so.
Wake up dudes, KFG definitely has a complaint. And like Jay says one that will be settled by the courts some day soon.
ksfarmgrrl
Marriage between a man and a woman is legal in every state of the union, gay marriage is not. If you don’t like the law, change it. As free Americans, we have that right. As a free American, I also have the right to oppose the change. The people of California opposed the change. Better luck next time.
I see “ownman” wont address the issue either.
“God doesn’t hate the sinner. He hates sin. God help me to flee from sin.”
Why are you not fleeing the sin of divorce? Why no constitutional amendment on divorce? Or adultry?
Why no constitutional amendment banning adultry? Sex outside of marriage?
Like I said, it would entrap too many good “christians”.
Oh, and the KKK says black folks and jews are welcome to join their parties too. They just have to join as lesser memeber.
Funny, there are no takers…. At least THEY have some self respect.
Gay people who join a church? Not so much…
Monkeyhawk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink
Oh, “Sanford” –
When you post, “…They want to remove the restrictions that hinder them, but want to stop there,” you reveal your only opposition to Same-Gender Marriage is that the GLBT community isn’t out working for others?
They want no gov’t restrictions on who they choose to marry. Fine, I have no problem with that. Take it to the next step, gov’t should not restrict any marraige choice. Whether it be me and my mom, me and my dad, or me and grandma, or me and grandpa. I’ve never seen the GLBT community advocate such rights.
Where is the consistency?
“Marriage between a man and a woman is legal in every state of the union, gay marriage is not.”
Gay marriage is legal in a few states. As usual, the fundies don’t have the facts on their side.
“You believe the Bible is the Word of God or you don’t.”
I dont. I dont want to live under biblical law.
You dont believe in the koran and wouldnt want to live under muslim law.
The difference?
none that I can see…
You are all for theocracy, as long as it is CHRISTIAN theocracy.
hypocrit
Sanford, you want to marry your dad now? You are one strange individual.
Newer posters should know.
Farmgrrl used to get a LOT more grief here from con posters.
Then? Some of them met her.
Now I have almost no doubt, those folks are still ….biased in their hearts and minds.
But they can’t come here and say it anymore. They can’t own it.
It’s a funny thing about prejudice. It’s harder to practice when it hurts someone you know.
My friend farmgrrl is one of the kindest, warmest people you could meet. Few posters here could say to her face what they post here.
Maybe if all the churches, both black and white, didnt have all that TAX FREE money available, we’d have an easier time changing the law?
TAX THE CHURCHES! Tax ‘em equally, but tax them as the political organizations they are.
mom
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink
Okie – I never said elections were law (like you just did) and I don’t believe in lying so what else can I do but say how I really feel about Bush?
Besides, Okie, the majority of Americans feel exactly the same way about Bush – so are we all wrong?
————
So Mom what you just said to me was pure BS and liberals are above laws and common civility. Thanks for admitting this. I have always known it by reading the posts here but most aren’t as straight forward as you are about admitting it.
When an ammendment is voted on that will change an existing law then yes it is a ‘law’. Do you think that congress only can write admendments, or maybe activist judges can write law – well I think the people have the power. Silly me. Not good liberal think I know but I keep clinging to the hope that we will never become a nation where the will of the people is surpressed.
Look it up, chicken lady. I said I don’t give a damn about your problems, and I’m certainly not going to sit here all day and research what I know to be true. Per capita gays and lesbians are much less healthy than the general population. You prove it isn’t true, Butch.
“You believe the Bible is the Word of God or you don’t.”
Well the bible does say wisdom comes through marriage and Solomon was the wisest man (who happened to have the most wives). So either you believe we should have polygamy or you believe god is wrong. So marriage for a gay couple is wrong because they should be executed (according to the bible), but polygamy, marrying your rapist and marrying virgin girls you capture in battle is okay.
This is the reason America is a secular society and the Bible is no guide book for morality.
“They want no gov’t restrictions on who they choose to marry. Fine, I have no problem with that. Take it to the next step, gov’t should not restrict any marraige choice. Whether it be me and my mom, me and my dad, or me and grandma, or me and grandpa. I’ve never seen the GLBT community advocate such rights.
Where is the consistency?”
Eric Sanford, you remind me of John Stone.
You STILL cant read?
I said I dont care if you marry yo mama or yo daddy.
But you havent addressed the issue of a constitutional amendment banning divorce and adultry.
Oh, the humanity! WHERE is the “consistancy”?
nitwit
“Own_Man” declares –
“…homosexuality is a deviate lifestyle choice.”
So share your testament of how you considered the options, studied them, explored them, and chose to be heterosexual. After all, you said “…God help me to flee from…” this alleged “sin.”
Enlighten us, “Own_Man.”
Gay marriage is legal in a few states. As usual, the fundies don’t have the facts on their side.
. . .and actually, the “marriage” part–with the preacher or judge or Elvis attending–is legal in all 50 states. But it does mean anything legally if the couple just happens to be gay.
So apparently the Unitarian Church or the Metropolitan Community Church don’t deserve to have their marriages recognized under the law. And apparently one couple can get married in a church, and get rights at the courthouse, while the next couple at the same church gets stiffed.
It’s the First Amendment, folks. Look it up.
…and I dont see poligamists advocating gay marriage rights.
So your point would be…?
Nothing. As usual.
Go phcuk your mother.
P.S. Fourteenth Amendment, also.
Own_Man – what is it with you bible thumpers that you just don’t get it? Deviate lifestyle? I have known gays and lesbians that are truly more spiritual than half the church people I’ve known. What I call deviate lifestyle would be a preacher that preaches against gays and lesbians but is caught with his pants down (literally) with a gay prostitute and doing drugs!
What I call a deviate lifestyle would be a church leader who is found out be the BTK killer 30 years later.
What I call a deviate lifestyle would be church people who cheat, lie, steal, hate and all in the name of God.
Maybe if more church people, like yourself, would stop worrying about ksfrmgrrl and clean up your own back yards, then maybe God will deliver you from your sins also.
Go phcuk your mother.
==========
You homos are a hateful little bunch.
“Per capita gays and lesbians are much less healthy than the general population. You prove it isn’t true, Butch.”
The last refuge of a weak mind.
Make an assertion, then refuse to back it up.
Thanks, we’ll just note that you were talking out yer ass.
Again.
The last refuge of a weak mind.
Make an assertion, then refuse to back it up.
————–
You do it everyday.
Hypocrite. Bigot.
He doesnt WANT to be delivered from his “sins”.
He’s only concerned about the speck in my eye, not the log in his own…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:38 am | Permalink
But you havent addressed the issue of a constitutional amendment banning divorce and adultry.
I have made exactly zero connection between what I’ve said and those two issues. If you choose to make a connection, knock yourself out.
But, I haven’t.
“You do it everyday”
Really? Then you shouldnt have to search far to find an assertion that I refused to back up.
Prove it, or stfu.
A liar AND a nitwit
KFG, off the top of my head.
ANTI
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:27 am | Permalink
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:24 am | Permalink
Grmie, you know in oklahoma they would vote today to legalize jim crow laws again.
=============
Bullsh*t.
It’s ironic that someone brought up “activist judges”. The origin of that phrase comes from Pat Robertson’s dad, the senator who was opposed to equal rights that was “forced” upon people as a result of Brown v. Board of Education.
How times don’t change. Back then they said Blacks had the same freedom to go to school just like they say gays have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex. Conservatives still believe separate is equal.
In the future they will lose out on gay marriage just like they lost out on apartheid.
Uh Eric Sanford?
You made the connection between being gay and sin.
You love a constitutional amendment banning one sin, but not others?
Telling. Very telling.
And how very typically christian of you.
Benefits for married couples are discriminatory to those who can’t or won’t marry. Terminate the benefits.
Why does the federal government dictate the definition of marriage? Take “marriage out of government and give it to the churches.
Civil union is between two consenting unrelated adults. Takes care of polygamy and incest. If the church will not marry same sex couples, so be it.
Churches are less political than any other 501-C-3 organization. Churches do not have Freedom of Speech when it comes to being able to endorse candidates for political office. All other 501-C-3 organizations have that right, so you lose there FG.
There is nothing hypocritical in my stance on Gay Marriage. I have said here I want the Government out of the marriage business. If a church wants to marry gay couples, fine. But the idea that they HAVE to is a problem. The Government should grant Civil Unions to all. Let marriage be a religious ceremony that individual churches can perform based on its beliefs.
From a judge in Virginia who was standing up for traditional marriage.
“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
Keep on holding onto that hatred Cons.
Here ya go anti. This was only six years ago.
http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=617
I’ll be glad to post more.
The google is your friend.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:39 am | Permalink
…and I dont see poligamists advocating gay marriage rights.
So your point would be…?
Nothing. As usual.
Go phcuk your mother.
——————–
My mom died two weeks ago so I don’t need anymore documents to represent her. You are a sick, evil, bigoted moron who doesn’t deserve any special privilege. If I were as low as you are, but is anyone that low, I would throw in one of your well thought out stupid vulgar comments but I won’t sink that low.
Mush for brains farmie – if we let you get married how do we deny the same rights to a polygomist? I have heard chickens have very small brains. Maybe you should try hanging out with animals with more mental capacity.
Have this discussion with yourself. And no BJ if I saw her in person I would still see the bitterness oozing out of her. And if the marriage ammendments ever comes to Kansas this time I will campaign against it and I will even vote against it just so I can make farmie miserable.
“ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:45 am | Permalink
Uh Eric Sanford?
You made the connection between being gay and sin. You love a constitutional amendment banning one sin, but not others?
Telling. Very telling.And how very typically christian of you.”
WHAT the F are you taliking about?? And, WHO the F is Eric Sanford?? You must be very confused.
“Churches are less political than any other 501-C-3 organization. ”
ALL 501(c)3’s are tax exempt and forbidden to engage in political advocacy.
ANY such should be taxed. Including churches.
Since when did “maaaa, they did it too” become an excuse for christians breaking the law?
Okie – you and I will never agree on much. But I do know that elections do not automatically become law. What the California voters got in was their opinion about gay marriage. It is now up the California legislature to carry out the wishes of the people. It is also the right of the homosexual community to petition the law to see if it is constitutional or not. It is also the right of the homosexual community to garner support for their issue and bring the issue back up for another voter in the future, if they so desire.
This is what a democracy is about – ever-changing laws. I know it’s hard for a dyed-in-the-wool conservative to get that in their head – but life is not black and white.
ksfarmgrrl
I believe that divorce is a sin except in cases of abuse. I also believe that adultery and fornication is a sin.
Do you know what fornication is?
Adultery is defined as extramarital sex (sex outside of marriage where at least one of the participants is legally married).
But, fornication is defined as sexual relations between two unmarried people.
Is fornication really the act that you want to legalize and then consider it to be deemed holy? Gay marriage, whether it is legalized or not, will have no effect on me.
Don’t be deceived into thinking that because the law of the land makes it alright, God will sanction it. If that were true then God would need to apologize for his actions against Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:24,25:”Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.”
Are you speaking lies to cover your own sin? Are you being hurtful in an effort to justify yourself? Turn your hateful and deceiving tongue over to God before it is too late.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:50 am | Permalink
Here ya go anti. This was only six years ago.
http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=617
I’ll be glad to post more.
The google is your friend.
=================
Are you an idiot KFG?
How does that back up your statement, “in oklahoma they would vote today to legalize jim crow laws again.”?
“Sanford” squirms –
“Take it to the next step, gov’t should not restrict any marraige choice. Whether it be me and my mom, me and my dad, or me and grandma, or me and grandpa. I’ve never seen the GLBT community advocate such rights.”
Ya know. Neither have I.
Just like I’ve never seen the National Dairy Advisory Board have a good word to say about artichokes.
It’s not their cause.
Your “only objection” to Same-Gender Marriage has been reduced to accusing the B’nau B’rith of a lack of “consistency” because they don’t advocate hogs be butchered Kosher.
If you and your blood relatives really want to keep polygamous incest in the family, make your case. The GLBT community isn’t here to secure your perceived civil rights.
If you want to “take it to the next step,” have at it.
Oh my grmie? Is that “faith” you brag about so weak that you are now sinking to my level?
heheheh,. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH.
“You are a sick, evil, bigoted moron who doesn’t deserve any special privilege.”
I’m not asking for SPECIAL privilege. I’m asking for EQUAL privilege. BIG difference.
I dont want to ban poligamists. Why do you?
Why dont you just admit you CANT marry someone for a “five dollar” piece of paper, and that what you and your mom had was NOT marriage?
nitwit
Own_Man, you aren’t a god no matter how highly you think of yourself.
KFG,
I guess you will be standing the floor up now that you have been proven a bigoted idiot.
Or are you going to support you Jim Crow claim?
Nice try at dodging the issue.
“I believe that divorce is a sin except in cases of abuse. I also believe that adultery and fornication is a sin.”
Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?
Why?
238 hits in what? 6 hours. Lets go for a record. Aborting a gay fetus that has CCW. There ya go folks. Barn burner.
Aborting a gay fetus that has CCW.
=============
That has got to be a bit scratchy coming out!
Anti, the problem with you cons is that when it comes to proof and links, one’s too many and a hundred is not enough. I provided my proof. You dont like it? Tough.
Heheheh. “own man”
Because bible thumping about Sodom and Gomorrah is so effective in proving your point.
There is NO non-religious argument about gay marriage.
And if you want to save money, let’s ban ALL civil marriages and their benefits!
What are the Gay Marriage advocates opinions on my stance that the Government should be out of the marriage business period. Grant civil unions to all. Marriage becomes a strictly spiritual union.
“Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?”
Crickets chirping
“Still just crickets chirping.And if you want to save money, let’s ban ALL civil marriages and their benefits!”
More crickets chirping
Kia, do keep up, will ya?
“What are the Gay Marriage advocates opinions on my stance that the Government should be out of the marriage business period. Grant civil unions to all. Marriage becomes a strictly spiritual union.”
Fine
But it would be better to ban ALL civil unions and their benefits. You can still have the symbol of “marriage” in your church.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:16 am | Permalink
“Own_Man
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:10 am ”
There ya go black folks. THERE is your christian ally in your bigotry against gay people.
And when “own” and his ilk turn on you?
Dont come to me for a vote or compassion. You are likely to get what you have shown me and mine.
Contempt and bigotry.
What a marriage made in heaven. Own man and the black churches.
You deserve each other.
—————————————
So you condemn the entire black community just because you don’t like the way some voted? I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but that’s called racism. It’s no different than ksfarmboooy hating all blacks just because one committed a robbery.
I know your kind. I’m guessing you grew up in a small town. You never really fit in, and didn’t have many friends. Your Christian parents made you go to church, right along side all the kids that gave you a hard time at school. Since you were an outcast anyway, you decided to rebel. You went as far the other way as possible. I’m guessing country music was big in your small town, so you probably got into metal or goth. Then you went around proclaiming your lesbianism for all to hear. I doubt anyone cared… No one was going to take you to prom anyway. You continued to grow angrier as you played the victim, screaming about intolerance while intentionally trying to make people intolerant of you. Focusing so much hatred on anyone who isn’t just like you… Christians and for some reason (as we’ve now seen) blacks. You’ve become as intolerant as those you hate. Everytime someone takes a different point of view, you flash back to all those mean kids making fun of you and your mind goes blank with rage, causing you to babble incoherrently, calling names and constantly making insinuations about incestuous relationships (is there something you need to get off your chest?).
The good news is, you can now start to let go. Those kids who were mean to you have now forgotten all about you. It’s time to get rid of the hate and move on with your life.
“And if the marriage ammendments ever comes to Kansas this time I will campaign against it and I will even vote against it just so I can make farmie miserable.”
Talk about high-minded motivation… Wow, is all I can say.
…and if I believed in fairy tales and sky gods, I could get married in a church TODAY! But it wouldnt give me the civil benefits of marriage.
I’m sure though, that the bigots and bible thumpers here think those are not “real” churches.
Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?
*****
Because when CONs do it, Ksfarmgrrl, it’s not sin.
Gov. Spitzer-Democratic stepped down when caught with prostitutes. Sen. Vitter-Republican gets re-elected.
IOKIYAAR
The Bible condemns usury. Anyone hear from the conservative Christians and their uproar there is no Constitutional amendment banning usury?
Me neither.
They just use their religion to bully others.
Maggotpunk
You’re right. I’m not God but, I know him.
mom,
You’ve been associating with the wrong bunch of people if those are your only references. And I agree, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” I am only stating my opinion and presenting the facts that it is based on. Without facts to base your opinion on, it is only an opinion and every body has one of those.
I believe God sanctioned marriage between one man and one woman. This sanction was from the beginning when he created man and woman. Again, it was sanctioned when at the marriage feast, Jesus performed his first miracle and turned the water into wine (John 2:9 and 4:46).
Today, the law and the general population of this country does not favor same-sex marriage. It really doesn’t matter if you thump a bible or you yell and scream loader than I do, same-sex marriage is illegal. Ever wonder why the term sodomy is used? (See previous post).
“You’re right. I’m not God but, I know him.”
Got his mailing address? Perhaps an e-mail or a myspace page? Nah, you’re just insane.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm | Permalink
But it would be better to ban ALL civil unions and their benefits. You can still have the symbol of “marriage” in your church.
—————————————————-
Maybe I don’t follow you.
There needs to be some kind of civil recognition of a relationship.
OMG, and after a rant about “facts” he posts this?
“I believe God sanctioned marriage between one man and one woman.”
heh. Heheh. EHEHEHEHEHEH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH.
Yeah. You believe the fairy tale. And you want to make laws based on that fairy tale.
Now THAT is a fact.
“There needs to be some kind of civil recognition of a relationship.”
Why?
And are you saying even MY relationship NEEDS some kind of “civil recognition”?
Careful, the christians will throw you out!
KFG- I’m thnking “The Bigot Blues” in the key of A. ?????
I’m yet to see a response from those claiming the Word of God (the bible) is a “Fairy tale” when I point out their belief towards it confirms biblican prophecy.
“Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?”
Crickets chirping
“Still just crickets chirping.And if you want to save money, let’s ban ALL civil marriages and their benefits!”
More crickets chirping
Going to the voting booth and voting your opinion and belief about the question of marriage is now tantamount to bullying?
It really is a frightening scary world we live in.
Don’t let them have your lunch money!
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm | Permalink
“There needs to be some kind of civil recognition of a relationship.”
Why?
And are you saying even MY relationship NEEDS some kind of “civil recognition”?
Careful, the christians will throw you out!
————————————————–
Legally yes. Otherwise what is in place to stop me from trying to stake a claim to your inheritance or survivor benefits?
“KFG- I’m thnking “The Bigot Blues” in the key of A. ?????”
I’m thinking more of the death dirge played by Santa Ana at the Alamo….
How stupid to justify denying the same rights to gays that straight people have by throwing God into the mix. If you’re going to use religion to justify your intolerence, then divorce should be banned also because the bible has a very clear stance regarding that issue. Many Christians like to cherry pick which part of the Bible they want to live by or force on others.
Oh Pul-eeze!
“Legally yes. Otherwise what is in place to stop me from trying to stake a claim to your inheritance or survivor benefits?”
Lots of people die without a will or a spouse. I dont see anyone “staking a claim” without going to court and having the blood laws determine the inheritance. In fact, it’s called a “determination of descent”.
Try again.
Hey RFL…
“Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?”
Crickets chirping
“Still just crickets chirping.And if you want to save money, let’s ban ALL civil marriages and their benefits!”
More crickets chirping
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
Oh Pul-eeze!
“Legally yes. Otherwise what is in place to stop me from trying to stake a claim to your inheritance or survivor benefits?”
Lots of people die without a will or a spouse. I dont see anyone “staking a claim” without going to court and having the blood laws determine the inheritance. In fact, it’s called a “determination of descent”.
Try again.
————————————————–
You don’t think it’s alot easier to have a legally recognized life partner in that case?
“Don’t let them have your lunch money!”
Or your guns. Bedwetter.
Maggotpunk
You will find him when you bow to your knees and call His name.
ksfarmgrrl
Even after Jesus had healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, raised the dead, and caused the cripple to walk, they mocked him. The same people that had witnessed the goodness of God through Christ said; Crucify him! Yet, while hanging on the cross, near to death, Jesus said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”
God is love and he even loves you. He gave his only son for the purpose of forgiving our sin. So that even we as imperfect people, sinners would not perish but could have the opportunity to know him as he is. I invite you to learn of Jesus. Give him your heart and your pain will leave.
KFG, I think Kia is agreeing to a uniform civil contract for all, regardless of sex. Is that not so, Kia?
“You don’t think it’s alot easier to have a legally recognized life partner in that case?”
Not for me it isnt.
The good christians here think I can function just fine without it.
Why cant they?
“You don’t think it’s alot easier to have a legally recognized life partner in that case?”
The EASY thing is to have a will!
“You will find him when you bow to your knees and call His name.”
Yup, fundies have to resort to violent threats when they don’t get their way. Typical cowardly fundy.
Rage
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
KFG, I think Kia is agreeing to a uniform civil contract for all, regardless of sex. Is that not so, Kia?
—————————————————-
Yes.
“Own_Man
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:23 pm”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Nice fairy tale.
Have I told you the one about Goldilocks and the Three Bears?
You present your bible thumping as FACT?
heheheh.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH!
It’s something you believe. Like the easter bunny or santa.
“Why a constitutional amendment to ban one “sin” and not the “sin” of fornication?”
Suits me just fine farmie…I could care less what the constitution says really. I live my life the I feel it should be lived, and I vote the way I feel I should vote.
Do YOU have a problem with that?
Yes.
And, once again, I completely agree.
Grmie you nitwit.
“Forget that a valid legal document can be had for as little as $5 and really give an indepth answer to my questions.”
I can get legal documents for free?
I cant get the benefits of civil marriage with my partner at ANY price!
I live my life the I feel it should be lived, and I vote the way I feel I should vote.
And you don’t care how your vote affects how other people can live? How terribly irresponsible.
“I could care less what the constitution says really.”
That’s obvious.
You dont seem to care much for the rule of law either.
I’m outa here. I think I’ll clean my guns and inventory my ammunition.
How stupid to justify denying the same rights to gays that straight people have by throwing God into the mix. If you’re going to use religion to justify your intolerence, then divorce should be banned also because the bible has a very clear stance regarding that issue. Many Christians like to cherry pick which part of the Bible they want to live by or force on others.
——————–
So do the atheists — cherry pick — Caruso is a good example — God I hate hyprocrites !!
“So do the atheists — cherry pick — Caruso is a good example — God I hate hyprocrites !!”
Atheists don’t have scripture to cherry pick from. Nice try, grow a brain.
Rage
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Yes.
And, once again, I completely agree.
—————————————————-
Thank you Rage.
The entire marriage argument is one group trying to impose it’s beliefs on another.
As I Christian I believe that God created marriage. At the same time, we’re living in a free society with varying beliefs. A Christian imposing his will on a non-believer is not going to assist in bringing someone to Christ. At the same time we as Christians should strive to protect what we belive the Lord has ordained.
Civil Unions for all seems to be the logical conclusion.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:30 pm | Permalink
I’m outa here. I think I’ll clean my guns and inventory my ammunition.
———————————–
You know, thinly veiled threats aren’t going to help your argument either.
Why don’t you just log off, and go cry in a corner somewhere until you can find a way to forgive those who were mean to you as a kid? It’s time to let go of the hate!
“You know, thinly veiled threats aren’t going to help your argument either.”
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
You know nothing about me.
The kids were mean to me? Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHHA.
Three words.
Student body president.
Yeah, that’s something I want revenge for….
“And you don’t care how your vote affects how other people can live? How terribly irresponsible”
Whaa..
Maggotpunk
Nothing violent about kneeling to pray. We all need more God in our lives.
When I think of how he came so far from glory; came and dwelt among the lowly, such as I. To suffer pain and such disgrace; on mount Calvary take my place. Then I ask myself this question, who am I. Who am I that a King would bleed and die for? Who am I that he would pray, “Not my will but thine,” for. The answer, I may never know, why he ever loved me so. That to an old rugged cross he’d go. For who am I?
The acts of our sin put Christ on the cross, mine and yours. He willing gave his life as a sacrifice for our sin because he loves us.
Kneel down and ask Jesus into your life today.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:35 pm | Permalink
“You know, thinly veiled threats aren’t going to help your argument either.”
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
You know nothing about me.
The kids were mean to me? Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHHA.
Three words.
Student body president.
Yeah, that’s something I want revenge for….
———————————————-
Really? I was President of the United States! (We can both make stuff up.) I stand by my earlier statements. I’ve known several people like you.
Own_Man, you do know you are insane don’t you? What’s your god’s mailing address?
ksfarmgrrl
you can run from the blog but, you can’t hide from God.
Maggotpunk
My God is but one. This world has many gods but there is only one true God.
“I’ve known several people like you.”
And I know waaaaaaay too many christians like you.
Dont believe me? Fine. It doesnt make it less true.
But one thing that is plainly true, from your posts here, is that you are clearly a bigoted christian idiot.
Now THAT’s a fact!
Maggotpunk argues with someone whom he thinks is insane. Interesting, what does that tell you about Maggotpunk?
“you can run from the blog but, you can’t hide from God.”
hehehehh. HAHAHAHAH.
WHY would I “hide” from a fairy tale?
Do you hide from Goldilocks?
Bedwetter.
“My God is but one. This world has many gods but there is only one true God.”
Yeah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But you said you know the guy so what’s his mailing address?
“Own_Man” witnesses –
“…you can’t hide from God.”
But apparently God can hide from us.
Otherwise, why is “finding Jesus” such a big deal to the twice-born?
(He was crouched behind the sofa the whole time!)
“Maggotpunk argues with someone whom he thinks is insane. Interesting, what does that tell you about Maggotpunk?”
Crazy people amuse me, that’s why I argue with creationists too.
Maggot should move to another country – somewhere where he wont have to be bothered by God and scripture — poor lil guy – it’s got em all upset
ksfarmgrrl
Even after Jesus went around doing nothing but good, they called him names too. That’s hate, man. Why do you hate? God is love.
“Maggot should move to another country – somewhere where he wont have to be bothered by God and scripture — poor lil guy – it’s got em all upset”
I live in a secular country, it’s the fundies who hate American and want to destroy the Constitution and turn America into a theocracy.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
“I’ve known several people like you.”
And I know waaaaaaay too many christians like you.
Dont believe me? Fine. It doesnt make it less true.
But one thing that is plainly true, from your posts here, is that you are clearly a bigoted christian idiot.
Now THAT’s a fact!
—————————————
Actually, you’ve made it quite clear that you know nothing about me. For one, I’m an atheist. I’ve been quite clear on that for some time. I’ve also stated that I’m not opposed to gay marriage. But when I see people like you and Maggot, etc. coming on here, calling names, and acting like children, I have to call you on it because it takes away from a legitimate discussion, and makes us all look bad.
Hmmm, being called names or depriving people of their civil liberties. Me and farmgirl are the lesser of two evils. But don’t worry, the folks we insult can take care of themselves and have no problem leveling insults back (or in some cases they have no problem making threats).
you show me the American document that states Atheism is to be the foundation and I’ll show you my documents that state God (the Christian God) is to be the foundation
Maggotpunk
I gave you God’s mailing address and told you where to find him; it’s on your knees. Don’t be afraid to go there, He loves you.
“you show me the American document that states Atheism is to be the foundation and I’ll show you my documents that state God (the Christian God) is to be the foundation”
Nobody claimed Atheism is the “foundation”, I said America is a secular nation, that’s what the Constitution declares. No what do you have that states America is a theocracy?
“I gave you God’s mailing address and told you where to find him; it’s on your knees. Don’t be afraid to go there, He loves you.”
Perv.
mentioned nothing about a theoracy – Christians were here first – how about China ??
“Crazy people amuse me, that’s why I argue with creationists too.”
The amusement is mutual. Seeing Maggotpunk’s theories denuded of all threads of credibility is certaintly an amusement for me as well.
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
Maggotpunk
You can only call me names in an effort to divert attention from your need of God? Can you not do any better than that? Who is the one here that is lacking mental capacity to communicate in an intelligent manner?
Matching wits with you is like being in a gunfight with an unarmed man.
And God still loves you.
“mentioned nothing about a theoracy – Christians were here first – how about China ??”
The Vikings were Christian, or the Native Americans? Does that make the moon Christian since Neil Armstrong was their first? I’m talking about the country of America, not the continent. Sounds like you’ve already given up.
Wow !! it’s nice to see that the atheists have their own constitution – they should apply it in their own country – not ours
Where does Maggot’s Rights: (life / Liberty / persuit of happiness) derive from ?? Man or God ??
“Wow !! it’s nice to see that the atheists have their own constitution – they should apply it in their own country – not ours”
There is a Constitution which said the nation is founded upon god, but that side lost in the civil war.
“Where does Maggot’s Rights: (life / Liberty / persuit of happiness) derive from ?? Man or God ??”
From people, they are the ones who create the laws. You are such a simpleton, it’s clear you aren’t going to support your claim that America is a theocracy.
sorry maggot – back to your history book – try again
“dadman
Posted November 13, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
Where does Maggot’s Rights: (life / Liberty / persuit of happiness) derive from ?? Man or God ??”
It does not matter.
Where does Maggot’s Rights: (life / Liberty / persuit of happiness) derive from ?? Man or God ??
It doesn’t matter. If you believe it comes from God, that doesn’t nullify the “created equal” part.
And by the way, that’s the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. But I suspect you’re the kind of fool who thinks the Pledge of Allegiance came from the Founders.
sorry – no theoracy – then man can take your rights away
“sorry – no theoracy – then man can take your rights away”
As what happened in California.
poor man dosent realize that the constitution was built upon the foundation of the declairation – poor man
“Christian nation” = theocracy.
America is no more a Christian nation than it is a Jewish nation, an atheist nation, or a white nation.
As what happened in California
=============
yup – only the ones that God didnt give you — later
“poor man dosent realize that the constitution was built upon the foundation of the declairation – poor man”
Do you even know what you are talking about? The Declaration was about succession from the British Empire, not the foundation of a new government. If you like the entire basis of our legal system is based upon British common law which originated in the British Isles well before Christianity was introduced to the land. So, using your reasoning, America is a pagan land.
“dadman
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:02 pm | Permalink
sorry – no theoracy – then man can take your rights away”
Men can take rights away regardless of whether those are God given rights or man-given rights.
BTW much of our constitution is based on principals in place in Rome before the time of Christ. (Jesus agreed with most of those principals, but they did not eminate from him).
IN YOUR DERAMS – MAGGOT
excuse me – dreams – he he
only the ones that God didnt give you
Whose god?
In God we trust – and we always will – how about Russia ??
“dadman
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:05 pm | Permalink
As what happened in California
=============
yup – only the ones that God didnt give you — later”
If you believe God gave the the right to life and liberty, so only God can take it away, you are in a dilema.
Either you are wrong or there are lots of Gods walking us (your life can easily be taken away, and your liberty can easily end with inprisonment)
“IN YOUR DERAMS – MAGGOT”
I don’t know if you are aware of this but America was part of Britain before the revolution. Nah, they probably don’t teach you that in fundy school.
Jim Jones (Communist / Socialist) Loved Russia
“In God we trust – and we always will – how about Russia ??”
Can someone provide a translation? Is he saying America was created in the 1950s or that Russia is part of America?
Jim Jones was a Christian you know. Is the purpose to convince everyone that you are absolutely clueless on everything?
Dadman meltdown in 3.. 2. . 1. . .
SQUARE PEGGS IN ROUND HOLES ?? EEEEWW ! ! !
“Maggotpunk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
“In God we trust – and we always will – how about Russia ??”
Can someone provide a translation? Is he saying America was created in the 1950s or that Russia is part of America?”
I think he is wondering if we trust Russia like God
And we have meltdown.
SQUARE PEGGS IN ROUND HOLES ?? EEEEWW ! ! !
Lying behind all the hectoring and BS, at last we get to the truth.
It’s icky, huh, dadman? They probably have cooties, too.
just clean up your meltdown mess — later (really)
you know those made most uncomfortable by gayness are almost always those that are insecure in their own sexuality.
“Men can take rights away regardless of whether those are God given rights or man-given rights.”
Man can do no such thing legally if their government acts firmly upon the premise that Rights eminate from the Creator and not from the will of the government or a King.
Jefferson said that We (being those who helped establish the government of the United States) held this philosphy to be self evident. Therefore, The laws of the United States would be made with this belief in mind.
Main Entry: self–ev·i·dent
: evident without proof or reasoning
“RFL
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
Man can do no such thing legally if their government acts firmly upon the premise that Rights eminate from the Creator and not from the will of the government or a King. ”
The government of the USA cannot act based on the premise that rights eminate from the Creator.
To do so would violate the the first amendment establishment clause.
Christians are free to believe that our society is based on Christian principals, but the government can never say that it is based on Christian principals, nor pass laws based expressly upon them.
Man can do no such thing legally if their government acts firmly upon the premise that Rights eminate from the Creator and not from the will of the government or a King.
The ignorance of American colonial history diplayed in this sentence is breathtaking. I don’t have time to address it properly right now, but I would note that Jefferson’s original draft of the Declaration specifically took to task the “CHRISTIAN king” (his caps) of England.
P.S. Also common sense would require one to acknowledge the numerous instances, in America alone, where rights were taken away in the name of God.
California being the most obvious recent example.
“RFL
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
Jefferson said that We (being those who helped establish the government of the United States) held this philosphy to be self evident. Therefore, The laws of the United States would be made with this belief in mind.
Main Entry: self–ev·i·dent
: evident without proof or reasoning”
Lol,
The declaration was signed in 1776, the first amendment was not adopted until 1791, thus how could Jefferson have been referencing it in a document 15 years earlier?
Mr_Kia
Posted November 13, 2008 at 8:42 am | Permalink
California has domestic partnership laws in place.
Homosexual couples have the same rights married couples do under the law.
Let’s support taking marriage out of the hands of the Government, period.
Civil unions.
Marriage is a religious ceremony.
If there are churches that would marry homosexual couples (and there would be) so be it.
============================================
Marriage has ALWAYS been licensed by the State… All that churches do is “Bless the Union” ALL marriages are already Civil Unions… NOT all churches necessarily “bless the union”
That is as it should be… The STATE grants the license… The Church has NO control over licensing…
Do you all understand that??? Thus, you cant take Government out of Marriage… The best that can happen, is to keep Churches out of the habit of sticking their noses in where they do not belong!!
Same-gender marriage does/would not require ANY Church to sanction such marriage!! Cant happen that way!!
Maggot says: Jim Jones was a Christian you know — Goes to show you how much Maggot knows about Christianity or Jim Jones — sad — very sad
Take your meds chas.
The argument is that the government no longer recognizes marriage. It recognizes civil unions as a union between two consenting unrelated adults. That union has the same respect as previous marriages. Or any and all benefits of previous marriages are stricken. Singles and couples have the same rights and benefits, should there be any.
“For one, I’m an atheist. I’ve been quite clear on that for some time. I’ve also stated that I’m not opposed to gay marriage.”
Not under that nic. Perhaps, under one of your many others. Spoofing again? Seems like the WE frowns on that.
Careful. You’ll get banned.
again.
Joe is off the hook. Dadman is CLEARLY the bdp, er, blog’s dumbest poster.
Not only was the REVERANT Jim Jones a christian, he was a minister who founded his own church. The People’s Temple.
BDP
Of course, that leaves the door open for you to say he wasnt a “real” christian.
heh. HEHEHEH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
sounds like dadman might be terry fox….
I’m thinkin’ rfl must be joe wright. And is grmie really phred phelps?
Just askin’….
The christian trinity.
terry, joe and fred.
Paraphrasing Jim Jones:
If you want me to be your God I’ll be your God.
Eating at McDonald’s doesn’t make you a Big Mac.
Ahem…. actually, Jim Jones WAS an ordained minister of the Disciples of Chist, with standing in the Northern Cal/Nevada Region.
JONES withdrew from the denomination on his own… Claimed he was a reincarnation of Jesus Christ….
The PEOPLES TEMPLE was a congregation of the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ. It was never dis-fellowshiped, because of a unique clause in the Disciples By-Laws that did not allow the Region to disavow them.
More at: http://www.disciples.org.
This is the 30th Anniversary of the Jonestown Tragedy.
I remember it well. I grew up in Congressman Ryan’s district.
“Make old dudes produce a boner and whack off at the marriage bureau!”
Damn, Monkeyhawk, you’re mean today! :D
After many years of courses, and reading, etc., I still have not figured out why so many of the “Chritian” wacko nut jobs all end up deciding that THEY are GOD… and that all of the women should be forbidden to have sexual relations with any one except themselves… Jim Jones, Koresh, the Mormon guy they just now caught up with… many others…
And if not that, then abolish ALL Sex for all of the group members….
They seem to HAVE to be GOD… and they want all the women to bear GOD’S children…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
“For one, I’m an atheist. I’ve been quite clear on that for some time. I’ve also stated that I’m not opposed to gay marriage.”
Not under that nic. Perhaps, under one of your many others. Spoofing again? Seems like the WE frowns on that.
Careful. You’ll get banned.
again.
———————————-
This is the only screen name that I’ve ever had on here. I’ve been very open about my beliefs from day one. You accusing me of something that isn’t true just reinforces my knowledge that I’m correct about you, and your desire to hide from the truth.
“gweber
Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:27 am | Permalink
Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.”
Allowing gays and lesbians to marry does not invalidate, cheapen, or redefine what my heterosexual marriage is.
Does it change what your marriage means?
I rule, (telling nic) I can google as well as you.
You are a multi nic. Did you think I expected you to admit it? heheheheheheheheheheheheh.
Go ahead, believe about me what you wish. If something is true, it doesnt need you to believe in it.
No matter.
You are still a narrow minded bigot.
And I dont have to google to find that out. I just have to read here.
brian,
I did not say that Jefferson referenced any document. You must be reading between the lines somehow.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
I rule, (telling nic) I can google as well as you.
You are a multi nic. Did you think I expected you to admit it? heheheheheheheheheheheheh.
Go ahead, believe about me what you wish. If something is true, it doesnt need you to believe in it.
No matter.
You are still a narrow minded bigot.
And I dont have to google to find that out. I just have to read here.
—————————–
All right then, it’s time to put up or shut up… Prove that I’ve used more than one screen name on this site. You can’t do it, because I haven’t ever even registered another name, but it’ll be fun to see you try!
By the way, I’ve already said that I support gay marriage. What’s bigotted about that? You’re the one who came out very strongly against blacks just because they don’t all support you. That’s what I’d call a bigot.
Ball’s in your court princess. Remember, just because no one liked you when you were a kid, doesn’t mean you can’t get them to like you now. You just have to let go of the hate!
That’s pretty funny. Yeah, I re-read your posts. Maybe you should too. Bigotry is as bigotry does.
Like I said, the WE frowns on spoofers.
But I suspect you are not really smart enough to do that.
Who’s helping you?
Is there something about seventy percent of the black vote you dont understand?
Heheheheh. Dont need to look much further than this to see who I_RULE is. Now, let’s see, who hates Pmom and I?
he’s posted here before, many times….
Yeah. You are no narrow minded bigot. BIG eye roll.
“#
I_Rule
Posted August 1, 2008 at 11:43 am | Permalink
Political_mama
Posted August 1, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
The segment was meant to be satire, and it was hillarious because Colbert had no idea how true he was speaking.
I don’t even think there isa single person in that town who even watches Colbert, they’re either at the bar, or watching the Christian channel, or beating the wife.
———————————-
Typical opinion of small town residents held by uppity, elitist, socialists.
By the way, how’s life in the whorehouse?”
Sounds just like….beber? Anti?
Oh hell, there’s so many bigots here….
Another of the “ruler” posts.
“#
I_Rule
Posted August 26, 2008 at 8:23 am | Permalink
Obama is just another empty suit politician. Idealistic? What ideals? Change, change, change, change, change. Yet he has proven time and again that it’s politics as usual for him. I think I’ll stick to a third party candidate and do my little part to hopefully one day bring down both major parties.”
Gee, someone who was banned recently?
And this from another blog called “The Root”. An African American blog.
“Posted By:
I_Rule at 06/08/2008 1:03:57 AM
Comment:
I’m white. I grew up poor. “Good Times” was one of my all-time favorite shows to watch. To my family, it wasn’t about race. It was about struggling to keep a strong moral value in a poor neighborhood. It was a way to feel good about yourself, even when you were broke.”
#
I_Rule
Posted May 14, 2008 at 6:32 am | Permalink
Hmm… I understand that it’s racist to not vote for someone just because they’re black. But I personally know several people who are voting for him just because he’s black. Is that not racist as well? It seems to me that the obama campaign just wants to play the race card when it’s beneficial to them.
Seems like someone is obsessed with race.
Miles? Is that you?
http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5629449
How very odd, that this came up in one of my searches.
http://dubya.instantspot.com/blog/
Congratulations, you re-posted a bunch of my previous posts (out of context, I might add). How exactly does that show that I’ve used more than one screen name? Just because some other posters here might agree with me on some issues? What about the fact that I’ve clearly stated that I favor gay marriage, and am an atheist, which goes against their arguments here? You really aren’t very good at this kiddo.
As regards my comments on race in other posts: If race is being discussed, I’ll discuss race. I’m not the one condemning all blacks just because 70% voted against an issue that I support. I don’t like Obama, but I’m not going to hate all blacks just because the majority support him. That’s your job.
Again, you can’t prove that I’ve even registered another sn, because I never have. You’re just trying to run away from the fact that I’ve figured you out, and made you look at who you really are. It’s ok… I’d be embarassed if I were you as well.
I think KFG has a little crush on you I_Rule….You sure got her frothing up!
Even the cactus needs a little moisture from time to time….
I posted this >>>>
“Marriage has ALWAYS been licensed by the State… All that churches do is “Bless the Union” ALL marriages are already Civil Unions… NOT all churches necessarily “bless the union”
That is as it should be… The STATE grants the license… The Church has NO control over licensing…”
___________________________________________
SOL Answers with >>>>
“The argument is that the government no longer recognizes marriage. It recognizes civil unions as a union between two consenting unrelated adults. That union has the same respect as previous marriages. Or any and all benefits of previous marriages are stricken. Singles and couples have the same rights and benefits, should there be any.”
__________________________________________
SOL — Please show what I said is wrong??
Looks a whole lot like what you posted as a response… LOL
Embarassed? HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Nope. You are busted. Anyone who clicks on the links will know.
nitwit.
and anti has already been dealt with.
Spoof much?
and anti has already been dealt with.
———-
Have I?
I didn’t get the memo.
Again… Randomly posting links to sites that I’ve never even visited doesn’t really do anything other than prove your desperation to take the focus off of yourself. I really don’t care if you believe me or not regarding my screen name. The message is still the same: It’s time to let go of the pain that all those mean kids caused you as a child. Free yourself from the hate!
Don’t 70% of blacks always vote Democrat?
Why is this being discussed in a Gay Marriage topic?
Chas,
The STATE grants the license
Exactly which license would that be. Clue; is starts with M.
What is DOMA? Can you guess what the M stands for?
Right Sol —- What is your problem!!! I already SAID that!!
The STATE also is the venue for dissolving that said Marriage….
What is it that you want to take away from the State, and to whom do you want to give it??
OR, do you just want a change in the printing on the License??
“And if the marriage ammendments ever comes to Kansas this time I will campaign against it and I will even vote against it just so I can make farmie miserable.”
I bet you would okie.
People like you make me want to vomit. You exploit prisoners to make your living and you derive sick pleasure in the pain of others.
As a little girl, I bet you abused animals.
And YOU may rest assured I will do everything in my power to remove the influence of good “Christians” like yourself from society.
As to “I rule” today is the first I have ever seen that nic.
I’ve been on here for awhile. I registered some time ago, but only began posting within the last few months, mostly on Opinion Line, but occassionally in story comments. I’ve got a great deal of posts out there… Just ask farmgirl!
You are the master of search JR. Check out I_Rule.
Tippy lives!
Anyone who searches for I_Rule will find out how “random” and out of context those posts are.
And they will get the same sites I got when I searched for you.
Denial. It’s not just a river in Egypt…
But then, chicken “sihts” never admit anything.
Mostly the homos lost. Better luck next time.
Kia, you supposedly live in CA and dont know that seventy percent of the black vote on November 4 was in FAVOR of putting hate into the CA constitution?
Do you REALLY live in CA?
What do your sites ‘prove’ KFG?
Of course, if you live in wichita…
You would be more familiar with the highly bigoted gail finney.
Democrats down there must be so proud.
Now that I’ve dealt with farmgirl, back on topic…
Personally, I can’t think of any good reason legally to ban gay marriage. Most opposition seems to come from a religious POV, and the government can’t look at that. While I do respect the fact that a vote was held, and a ban was supported (although I don’t believe everyone opposing gay marriage is automatically a bigot), this is an issue of equal treatment. I can’t see how it can be construed any other way without getting into a theological discussion (as we’ve found). I do agree with what some have said regarding the need for both a mother and father in the home, but does that mean that we should take away the kids if a father dies and leaves the mother to raise the kids on her own?
We’re having fine luck in Connecticut and Massachusetts.
New England. The home of REAL patriots!
Kansas? heheheheh.
Patriotic not so much…
Don’t let ‘em get at ya kfg.
The bigots and fundies are running scared. Aside from their recent little narrow minded victories?
WHAT else have they got? They’ve lost at everything else. Too? Their “army” is dying off.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
Kia, you supposedly live in CA and dont know that seventy percent of the black vote on November 4 was in FAVOR of putting hate into the CA constitution?
Do you REALLY live in CA?
—————————————————-
I moved back to Wichita 18 months ago.
When I first started posting here during the 2006 mid-term elections I was living in California.
I was raised 20 miles south of The City in California.
I did not know that 70% of Blacks in California voted Yes on Prop 8. It doesn’t surprise me.
Obama himself stated in the campaign he was not in favor of Constituitional Ammendment to legalize same-sex marriage.
Hey BlueJay, do you know when I was ‘dealt with’?
I must have forgotten and KFG is afraid to tell me.
anti must need attention REALLY badly today…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 4:05 pm | Permalink
anti must need attention REALLY badly today…
———–
I do. Wanna scratch my belly?
BJ and StevenD and anyone else on here to attempts to make farmie out to not be the bigoted big mouth she has shown herself to be – Well I will post the entire post of what was said when I assured farmie that I would not want her and others like her bigoted, bigmouth, hateful, spiteful, etc…. to have the right to ‘marry’ in Kansas.
okobserver
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:50 am | Permalink
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:39 am | Permalink
…and I dont see poligamists advocating gay marriage rights.
So your point would be…?
Nothing. As usual.
Go phcuk your mother.
——————–
My mom died two weeks ago so I don’t need anymore documents to represent her. You are a sick, evil, bigoted moron who doesn’t deserve any special privilege. If I were as low as you are, but is anyone that low, I would throw in one of your well thought out stupid vulgar comments but I won’t sink that low.
Mush for brains farmie – if we let you get married how do we deny the same rights to a polygomist? I have heard chickens have very small brains. Maybe you should try hanging out with animals with more mental capacity.
Have this discussion with yourself. And no BJ if I saw her in person I would still see the bitterness oozing out of her. And if the marriage ammendments ever comes to Kansas this time I will campaign against it and I will even vote against it just so I can make farmie miserable.
——————
She was outside the pale. I am sick of her mouth and then her whining all of the time. She needs to get a life and understand that in this life sometimes the answer is no.
So BJ and Sdavis show your immaturity by siding with farmie. Maybe you agree with her that I am Fred Phelps too. She is such an idiot I am thinking she should be committed. She might be dangerous.
Now that is the entire story. Not taken out of context as the left likes to do. As farmie is doing right now with i_rule.
BlueJay
Posted November 13, 2008 at 3:52 pm | Permalink
Don’t let ‘em get at ya kfg.
The bigots and fundies are running scared. Aside from their recent little narrow minded victories?
WHAT else have they got? They’ve lost at everything else. Too? Their “army” is dying off.
—————-
Ahhh… Bj I bet if you had the gas you would drive out to hold poor wittle farmies hand after she has been picked on so much all day by the big bad meanies. Take the blinders off. She is a viper ready to strike with her forked tongue.
I’d walk through fire for my friend farmgrrl there okie.
You? I wouldn’t cross the street to save your life. Ask yourself, would anyone?
Ya get a picture of people you have never met.
I have okie pictured as Aunt Emma from “Vacation”
A mean, cranky old crone.
It’s Aunt Edna.
I wouldn’t cross the street to save your life.
===============
BlueJay, you are a real piece of sh*t. With statements like yours, how can you even begin to call others bigots and full of hate?
Californicatia sodomites are blaming the huge black voter turnout, favoring traditional marriage by 70%, for passing Proposition 8, claiming the black race lacks intelligence and education.
“claiming the black race lacks intelligence and education.”
Got a link for that? Or are you just projecting?
Anti it makes BJ feel big and important when he can put others down. I have long since quit listening to him.
I have decided in the last few days that I see why CA voted as they did. They have met a version of farmie they couldn’t stand and it has made the whole movement unwholesome to them.
And they wonder why they lost. I didn’t vote on this first time around but farmie has convinced me I was wrong.
Grmie, you are SUCH a liar. Nice try at cut and past. The post directly above the “go phcuk your mother” was directed at Eric Sanford, who wants to MARRY his mother. I guess you missed that?
nitwit AND unable to read.
You said you could get the same rights of marriage with a five dollar piece of paper.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of that. Did you get her on your health insurance with that piece of paper? Did you get survivor benefits from SS with that piece of paper?
no. It was not a marriage.
Read grmie. It’s not just for educated people anymore.
OMG, I’m still laughing at grmie. It’s all about her. Every post is directed at her.
Here is the post previous to the one where I told Eric Sanford to do what he wants to do to his mama.#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 11:38 am | Permalink
“They want no gov’t restrictions on who they choose to marry. Fine, I have no problem with that. Take it to the next step, gov’t should not restrict any marraige choice. Whether it be me and my mom, me and my dad, or me and grandma, or me and grandpa. I’ve never seen the GLBT community advocate such rights.
Where is the consistency?”
Eric Sanford, you remind me of John Stone.
You STILL cant read?
I said I dont care if you marry yo mama or yo daddy.
But you havent addressed the issue of a constitutional amendment banning divorce and adultry.
Oh, the humanity! WHERE is the “consistancy”?
nitwit”
But of course, it’s ALWAYS about grmie.
Still waiting on what that five dollar piece of paper covered.
“I wouldn’t cross the street to save your life.”
JR, I think the correct phrase is “I wouldnt pee in your ears if your brains were on fire”.
Of course, that would assume grmie and her ilk HAD brains.
hee hee hee heeeeee…
And grmie is jealous that I have friends?
Lonely much, old lady?
That’s what happens to bigots and stupid people.
“BlueJay, you are a real piece of sh*t. ”
And apparently, your sole reason for posting here, huh “ANTI JR”?
How’s that feel?
Polygamist marriage?
What a stretch… comes from a position of desparation!! What next?? Out with the critters again??
Is there something difficult about “Two, Unrelated ADULT Humans?? Polygamy is MORE thn TWO… Last time I looked critters arent HUMANS…
I wish the desparate RW would stop trying to INVENT new stuff all the time!! Geez!!
“And grmie is jealous that I have friends?”
AND cranked that I found out her and her hubby exploit prison labor for fun and profit.
This thread is already huge… Let’s try to stay on topic, Blue Jay… I know it gets difficult with all of the silly ad hominems floating all over, but we can do it…
Gay marriage, what next?
There will be a ‘next’ you know. Gays don’t want ‘all the rights’ that heterosexuals have, they want a perverted life style considered ‘normal’.
If you consider buggery immoral then you are hateful. Look at this thread. Which side brings us the profanity and hate? Which one has threatened physical violence?
Ultimately to even admit that you are a Christian will be evidence that you are a hateful bigot. Already liberals wish to use your words as a way to look into your heart and make your very thoughts illegal.
Then, what next?
If we allow gay marriage, what next?
JR, we dont even know that she owns a business. She said so, but no one knows her in real life. So…
Anyone can make anything up. ON the internet, no one knows you are a dog.
“just so I can make farmie miserable.”
Onward Christian soldier! Oppress and discriminate against people you have never met because ONE had the guts to stand up to you.
“If we allow gay marriage, what next?”
—–
We’ll be one step closer to ensuring equality for all. Next, we might be able to address equal pay for equal work.
Seems to me that people have VOTED numerous times, to approve or ban things that dont hold up to the scrutiny of the Courts. Same gender marriage is no different… The courts say NO to the ban… The people vote YES to the ban… The courts will merely rule, Again, that you cant ban gay marriage!
Should be fairly simple, once the filing makes its way into the Court system… I understand such a filing has already happened…
What I wonder is why did all of that money to PASS Prop. 8 come in from a State where it wasnt even on the Ballot??? as in Utah??
Is that even legal?? I dont know for sure..
What’s next? Oh, I dont know. How about we sterilize stupid people?
“If you consider buggery immoral then you are hateful.”
Geez, hyperbole much? No. But if you deny me my civil rights and equal protection under the law because your religion tells you so? Well, that IS bigotry.
“Ultimately to even admit that you are a Christian will be evidence that you are a hateful bigot.”
That is already true. They prove it frequently.
What next? Let’s outlaw single parents.
And divorce. How about a constitutional amendment banning divorce. And men who cheat on their wives.
Ooops. I bet that’s a little close to home….
“Is that even legal?? I dont know for sure..”
Sure it is, chas.
IOKIYAAC
How about?
WHO next?
IF we allow discrimination against gay people, who is next?
Single parents?
Divorced people who remarry?
People who don’t take their kids to church? WHICH church?
“Which one has threatened physical violence?”
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If what I posted is threatening violence, nathan should be locked up for his posts threatening to bring a gun to an actual event when he was asked not to do so!!!!!
heheheheheheh.
It’s ok for you gun nuts to post about guns but not ok for me?
HEheheheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I was going to comment on the subject, but I have got to say, some of you people really scare me. Seriously.
HLP blogs: “Which one has threatened physical violence?”
Now that’s a funny thing for him so say since he once said that he “carries a gun in case he needs to kill someone”.
That’s sounds pretty threatening to me. I don’t “need” to kill anyone. Most people don’t…but HLP plans for it.
test
I know you wingnuts are mostly too stupid to click on links, but a complaint has been filed against the Mormon Church.
TAX THE CHURCHES!!!!!
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/complaint-failed-against-mormon-church.html
“IF we allow discrimination against gay people, who is next?
Single parents?
Divorced people who remarry?
People who don’t take their kids to church? WHICH church?”
No. False argument. Just people who won’t accept that “marriage” won’t happen for gay people. As always, the Libs overplayed their hand.
Fleetie, I guess you havent heard.
you’ve been outdone as the blog’s dumbest poster.
Your services are no longer required.
And for you GOOD people out there…
Here’s a link to a list of businesses you can boycott to thank them for their support of the california hate amendment.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×4455188
Dont worry fleetie. I know you cant read at the level required for DU.
Well, it’s a long time since my brief time in the Republican party. SO, I can’t say for sure.
But, I THINK if I were still a Republican? I would look at all the money and time and rhetoric that is devoted uselessly and be fairly unhappy with that. Yeah it picks them up the odd one issue voter here and there.
But? How many other people look at such foolishness and conclude that a party that would devote SO MUCH to…so little just is not to be taken seriously.
Wingnut heads must be exploding everywhere.
I guess this is “next”?
heheheh. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081113/lf_nm_life/us_pregnantman
Vote against gay marriage and it STILL wont stop this!
Ah, my dear farm girl, neither my boy or I have ever threatened anyone with violence. Never, ever.
You made a not so subtle threat today to use your gun.
Why don’t you look at your posts and the posts of others that come to your defense. Then tell me which ones are full of hate.
I’m remembering Nathan posting about making people (and their cars?) “disappear”.
Now that was some time ago. But I didn’t get from the context that Nathan was sharing an interest in magic with us.
I’m a big believer in civil rights for EVERYONE.
“You made a not so subtle threat today to use your gun.”
Please repost that threat. I dont see any.
Do I hate chritians? heheh. AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
No. I just feel sorry for you suckers. I love christians. Just like they loooooooooove me and mine.
And if I ever get the chance? I’ll vote to phcuk with your lives.
Just like you do with mine. Purely for pleasure.
If you so called followers of christ are an example of christ’s “love”?
Give me the devil.
Any day.
OOooooooo.
Be afraid of me.
Be VERY afraid.
Be afraid someday that we will treat chrisitans EXACTLY as they have treated us.
I mean, they must want us to, right?
Do unto others and all. Christians must want done to them what they do to gay people.
Being followers of christ and all…
If this is your idea of “love”?
Give me hate.
It cant be any worse than this christian “love”.
Sorry bastards
Gee, let’s post this just to show what a FINE job you straight people do as parents and marriage partners….
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/safe_haven
Gee farm girl do you have anymore room for hate? i think you have more than any one else on this blog except maybe for BJ.
For ass wipes like you?
The well is bottomless.
If you see my next statement as a threat? Be afraid.
This gay marriage question will not be settled without MORE blood being spilled.
And it isnt all going to be ours this time.
I hope it’s worth it to you. Because it damn sure is to us.
Put on your jesus cap and RUN!
I’M IMPRESSED. i’ve never met someone with such a small mind inside such a big head before!
Complaint: LDS Church Underreported Prop 8 Role – SLTrib
Advertisements [?]
Californians Against Hate, an independent nonprofit organization committed to shining the spotlight on hefty donors to the Yes on Proposition 8 campaign, upped the ante against the LDS Church today.
The group filed a complaint with California’s Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC), claiming The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints failed to report nonmonetary contributions that helped pass the measure – one that defines marriage as between a man and a woman, issuing a huge blow to the movement for same-sex marriages.
The advocacy organization’s founder, Fred Karger, wrote in a letter – to the FPPC and Attorneys General Edmund G. Brown Jr., of California, and Utah’s Mark Shurtleff – that the church “has been highly secretive about its massive involvement in the campaign, but we managed to piece together evidence of some of their more visible activities done directly to communicate with California voters.”
Karger, 58, said by phone from Los Angeles that he and others had been monitoring contributions to support this campaign since July 1. And he alleges that their research shows 59,000 Mormon families ponied up more than $22 million to the cause, amounting to 77 percent of funds raised.
“I know what things cost,” said Krager, a retired political consultant with nearly 30 years experience. “I’m convinced huge expenditures were made that, for whatever reason, went unreported – which is not in keeping with California law.”
But LDS Church spokesman Scott Trotter issued a strong response this afternoon, saying the church “fully complied with the reporting requirements of the California Political Reform Act,” relied on advice from experienced California counsel and made no violations when it came to reporting expenditures.
In fact, he added in a written statement, the LDS Church “filed four reports with California authorities; these reports are a matter of public record. A further report will be filed on or before its due date, January 30, 2009. . . The so-called ’sworn complaint’ filed by Fred Karger with California and Utah authorities has many errors and misstatements. Any investigation would confirm the Church’s full compliance with applicable law.”
The evidence Karger claims to have gathered points to unreported investments to organize phone banks in Utah and Idaho, send out direct mailers, provide transportation to California including travel by LDS Church leaders, mobilize a speakers bureau, develop Web sites, produce “at least 9 commercials and 4 other video broadcasts” and a couple of satellite simulcasts spanning five states. He said the church stepped over the line when communication stopped being just between members. At that point, he said he believes reporting nonmonetary activity should have been required, which is why he turned the complaint over to FPPC, a group he described as the “political watchdog of California.”
Roman Porter, executive director of FPPC, said from his Sacramento office that the commission had not yet seen the complaint but explained that upon its receipt, “We have 14 days to notify the person making the complaint of what our intended action is – whether we will investigate or not, or issue a warning letter.”
Karger said regardless of how the FPPC rules, he feels standing up for equal rights, including the ability to marry, is “for the best” and will help the LDS Church learn to “recognize and love everyone regardless of sexual orientation.”
“We’ve turned a corner, and . . . we’re fighting back,” he continued. “They’ve awakened Godzilla.”
Link: http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_10975443
Phcuk you ford.
And the horse you rode in on.
You can read more of “ford”s hits and posts on the election night thread.
And, reading this, you call ME a hater?
ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#
FORD1ST
Posted November 4, 2008 at 8:39 pm | Permalink
Don’t call me your family name move if you don’t like it here , you won’t be missed
Bed wetter.
#
FORD1ST
Posted November 4, 2008 at 8:43 pm | Permalink
who you voted for is your choice, better sell your guns before he gets in office or he will take them from you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
#
FORD1ST
Posted November 4, 2008 at 8:34 pm | Permalink
It’s sucks to have people like you in kansas
Um, yeah Ford. I think you are just jealous because YOU had the market on hate cornered.
Bedwetter
I don’t know what your problem is but i bet it’s hard to pronounce.
Especially for a kansasbillie like you.
Real slow for ya.
Oh hell, I cant TALK that slow and dumb for you to understand.
It sucks to have people like you in Kansas.
Or the world for that matter.
Crawl back in your hole.
Give it up, Ford…you are WAY out of your league.
#
mxyzptlk
Posted November 13, 2008 at 5:47 pm | Permalink
HLP blogs: “Which one has threatened physical violence?”
_______________________________________________
Well, which one of the intelligent, loving liberals has threatened violence today? Which side of this argument seems to be unable to debate without using profanity?
_______________________________________________
Now that’s a funny thing for him so say since he once said that he “carries a gun in case he needs to kill someone”.
_______________________________________________
Really? Are you that far divorced from reality that you don’t know why a person would get a CCH license?
_______________________________________________
That’s sounds pretty threatening to me.
_______________________________________________
Of course it sounds threatening to you. You’re a liberal wienie. You’re very existence depends on men and women willing to take up arms and defend your freedom. You’re scared because you refuse to be responsible for you and your family’s safety. Your fear has nothing to do with me and every thing to do with you.
_______________________________________________
I don’t “need” to kill anyone. Most people don’t…but HLP plans for it.
_______________________________________________
I carry a jack and a spare, but I don’t plan on having a flat.
There is a fire extinguisher in my garage, two in my kitchen, two in the basement but I’m not currently scheduling a fire.
nitwit
________________________________________
That true mary i don’t have that much hate in me to argue with some one who does not have it all together.
“Of course it sounds threatening to you.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
And you thought I was threatening?
What’s the excuse for that?
I’ve had several flat tires in the past year, but I’ve never been shot at….and I never felt the need to carry a weapon, even though I regulary go into the very worst neighborhoods in Wichita. I think most people’s fear comes from the sensationalism and culture of fear perpetrated by the media.
Oh, I think from reading your election night posts, you have PLENTY of hate in you.
Brains? Not so much….
You tell US to leave the state if we dont like it?
Why dont YOU leave the blog if you dont like it?
Or maybe you are just too dumb to participate with anything other than inane remarks?
nitwit
“That true mary i don’t have that much hate in me to argue with some one who does not have it all together.”
Obviously you’ve never been discriminated against. It does tends to piss one off.
I take it you’re a white, heterosexual male, Ford.
“tend”….my fingers aren’t working tonight.
Mary, darling,
I’ve seen the tires on that little car of yours, you need new ones.
You got it right.
I remember “Ford”.
I kicked him around the night of the election I think. Ankle biter.
I may need new tires, but I’ve NEVER been shot at or threatened with a gun….
O MY GOSH! IT’S THE FLAG BURNER THAT HATES KANSAS. I BETTER DUCK. O GOLLY GEE.
Well, Ford..than you don’t know what it’s like to be told in so many ways that you’re a second class citizen and have no right to equality.
Ask any woman, gay, or person of color what it’s like….you may find a lot of pissed off people.
I may need new tires, but I’ve NEVER been shot at or threatened with a gun….
___________________________________________
You’re repeating yourself, ya got a point there somewhere?
I’ve never had a fire in the kitchen either. I’ve been threatened with a gun before, I’ve been mugged twice and I’ve been in a store when it was robbed at gun point.
I’ve also been shot at.
Just because every sheep in the flock doesn’t get eaten by wolves doesn’t mean you won’t.
“Ask any woman, gay, or person of color what it’s like”
I bet he doesnt KNOW anyone like that. He’d have to ask a stranger.
I bet they back away from him slowly…
You are wrong mary ,you do not have to be gay,person of color to be a second class citizen all you need to be is poor.
WHAAAAT? You are POOR?
What did you do to piss off Jesus?
I cant believe you missed out on all that “prosperity gospel”!!!!!!!
You better pray about it…
Someone who is poor and white has never had to sit in the balcony at the theatre or at the back of the bus. Someone who is poor and male has never been told he can’t have a job because he might get pregnant. Someone who is poor and heterosexual can still get married and have the rights that come with a legal union.
Being poor only means you’re a second class citizen if you see yourself that way.
Poor and a con?
Another victim of talk radio.
“Just because every sheep in the flock doesn’t get eaten by wolves doesn’t mean you won’t.”
I prefer not to live my life in fear of what may or may not happen to me.
If you’ve been shot at Hank, maybe you think about not pissing people off all the time!
“maybe you should think”
Damn, my fingers AND brain aren’t working tonight!
I would agree with both of you. but then we’d all be wrong
Well, kfg has me convinced. Her sweet sympathetic arguments and good humor make me want to do anything I can to help her.
Did you try being nice?
Understanding of others’ position?
Maybe trying to sway those who might be uncertain?
But you have too much hate.
Frmgrl shouldn’t have to beg for people’s understanding, Out. She wants the same rights as you..why is that hard to understand?
Has anyone ever told you that you have no right to what everyone else has, Out? Don’t you think that would make you angry?
She is a human being, she is a citizen of America. She accepts the same responsibilities, why should she have to ask for the same rights?
So, she’s pissed Mary. Get over it. It doesn’t help her cause to be so nasty. Hate is always returned.
I don’t see it as hate as much as hurt. Pleading, crying, filled with a desire for human compassion and dignity. This wasn’t the only day in her life where she’s been told she doesn’t deserve what other humans take for granted. It’s been a lifetime of being demeaned, treated as less than. There are some who treat her as if she is contagious, and of course, perverted. Real sad when human dignity can’t be offered to every human.
Haven’t you ever been angry?
She has every right to be pissed…I’d feel the saem way if it was me. I know what it feels like to be treated in a condesending way or told I can’t do something because I’m a woman. Maybe if you had to walk a mile in her shoes you might be more empathetic, Out.
Good night, all….Farmie, many of us love you and support you 100%
Don’t let small minds get you down, they’re not worth it.
“This will never be resolved without guns. And I’m locked and loaded for bigot season.”
The true nature of the ‘lesie’ emerges. Kill anyone that she disagrees with.
I think this is pretty hilarious.
The people of California spoke, as well as Arizona and Florida and dozens of other states previously.
Get over it….that’s the way America works, a vote.
More people think ‘gay marriage’ is an oxymoron in each of those states. Even California where there are a high percentage of ‘nuts’.
No, Box, that’s not how it works. We don’t get to vote civil rights off the island. That’s why we have a constitution.
gweber Posted November 13, 2008 at 9:27 am | Permalink
“Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose; they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us…….”
gweber,
Excellent post you posted at 9:27 am above….right on accurate.
“I think this is pretty hilarious.”
A friend of mine who has done you no harm hurts and to you it is amusing.
You HAVE that face to face tomorrow noon if you want it.
This has to be the saddest thread.
Hugs KFG.
Name it a$$hole, and show up.
Remember, the last time we had this dance you couldn’t….too coward. You sat at home shaking.
“That’s why we have a constitution.”
The Constitution was just written…accept it.
Is that right?
Do I know you in another nic?
When did I ever schedule a meeting with you “boxlock”?
“We don’t get to vote civil rights off the island. That’s why we have a constitution.”
It isn’t civil rights. Gays can do whatever they like, except redefine marriage for everyone. As is now pretty universally recognized, ‘gay marriage’ is an oxymoron. It does not exist.
hehehe
BlueJay is very brave in the blue glow of his monitor!
You called him out, and he accepted. You’re turn BlueJay. Where’s it going to be?
crickets chirping. . .
You didn’t, you talked big about it. I deferred to you picking place and time within a week I would not be away on business.
You failed to respond….as I imagine you do on most things.
Quite frankly BJ, and all the other DimLib Secular Progressives on this blog….you are all becoming extremely boring.
I have not been around here much as business travel has keep me away a lot with not much time except to check email and respond.
I feel great!!! In other words, you all make me sick.
The day that was available for me, you were no posting “boxlock”.
I don’t smack at people when they aint around.
Oh and kept man Hank?
As you see, I called him out.
As you see, I called him out.
Where and when, BJ?
“.you are all becoming extremely boring”
Yeah? Well hang on for it to get a whole lot more interesting come January there guy.
Now.
You gonna keep taking shots at my friend? Or do you care to show up and say your piece face to face?
I set aside a whole week for you to choose BJ, you would not respond….don’t lie.
The invitation remains, but we both know where that will go so don’t embarrass yourself further.
HLP,
Thanks for remembering the details as they happened.
hehehe
If you two meet, I’d like the ticket sales and concession rights. It would be worth a fortue if BJ actually shows up!
HLP, goodnight!
BJ, put you tail between your legs, as you must be so familiar with, and turn off the computer. I doubt anyone cares to hear you go on and on to no end.
He’s pretty tough when he can lie about people from the safety of his keyboard.
Dillons, Central and Rock.
Outside and very public since I know you are carrying. Noon.
Oh and by the way?
Hank AND Nathan have had ample opportunity to say what they would like to me. I was alone with the two of them at the conclusion of the first meetup.
SO? Buzz off kept man.
I smell fear…
Good night,
BJ probably wet himself with the thought that you might actually meet.
Later
Hank, What does being so mean spirited do for you? Aren’t you ashamed?
I hear the theme song from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Or was it High Plain Drifter? One of those.
Name this Eastwood movie
I had to come back.
I know.
A man’s gotta make a living
Dying aint’ much of living, boy.
“He’s pretty tough when he can lie about people from the safety of his keyboard.”
I’ve met you at least three times Hank.
You never wanted to talk politics.
Bounty Hunter
I cheated and used the google
“Hank AND Nathan have had ample opportunity to say what they would like to me. I was alone with the two of them at the conclusion of the first meetup.”
Well, that’s true, BJ. At the time I thought you were just a little weird and pathetic. That’s before I realized you were a pathological liar. That’s before you started telling lie after lie about me and my family.
You called Boxlock out and he accepted. Now what, little man?
Sorry Linda. Wrong Answer. Next?
#
BlueJay
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:37 pm | Permalink
“He’s pretty tough when he can lie about people from the safety of his keyboard.”
I’ve met you at least three times Hank.
You never wanted to talk politics.
—————–
Maybe Hank didn’t bring any spit and spray protections.
I am waiting for his answer there Hank.
This forum is well familiar with your and your sons lies on me.
IF you can prove I have ever lied on you I invite you to do so.
How will I know you except for the wet pants?
High Noon?
such pressure…
How will I know you “boxlock”?
It’s sad when you’ve got “the google” and get it wrong! ;-)
“Dying aint’ much of living, boy.”
‘The Outlaw Josey Wales’
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/quotes
Ok, clue. Chief Dan George was in it.
Dying aint’ much of living, boy
The Outlaw Josey Wales…
TWICE! I got it wrong twice?
(deep sigh)
I can do better, give me another chance, I’ll take the time to get it right.
“IF you can prove I have ever lied on you I invite you to do so.”
Your whole pathetic little life is a lie.
For one, calling me a ‘kept man’ is a lie. Saying that Nathan turned away from his birth mother is a lie. Saying that I abandoned my son is a lie.
You are a pathological liar.
Here is how I see it “Boxlock”.
I’m a known here. You are not.
I’m giving you the chance to prove yourself.
I want you to tell me, face to face, how it is you get pleasure out of the pain of a friend of mine.
The worst that can happen for you is I come back here and report “Yeah, I met him and he is indeed a narrow minded bigot.”
Ya Game?
We have a winner. The Outlaw Josie Wales.
One of my all time favorite movies.
He’s an oldie but goody, lindainks.
What actor played Quint Asper, the blacksmith, on Gunsmoke.
#
outlander
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:48 pm | Permalink
We have a winner. The Outlaw Josie Wales.
One of my all time favorite movies.
—————–
Now spit…
:)
Burt Reynolds?
I’m losing a bit of confidence here…
The deal is –
I don’t know and I’m cheating and using google and getting it wrong!
bummer
Hey Regular, did you receive the email I sent you?
Good question Reg. I think Linda got it. Who played Chester?
It’s an opinion blog Price.
I go on the best information available.
Nathan USED to refer to your wife as Joyce.
Now he calls her Mom.
And it is you dragging me into this. I’m happy to go there.
ding ding ding, you are correct madam!
Okay,here’s come comic relief by Duckman perhaps the finest rant of all time.
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WzZ7vpBc44
Well, gentle people, I’m going nighty bye. Big weekend planned, going to Lincoln, NE for a dog show.
Taking two of the herding boys so maybe while moma is showing Nikki we’ll be able to sneak off and practice a little on a friend’s farm nearby.
Every body play nice while I’m gone!
Dennis Weaver
AND!! I knew that one!
I already told you I was….see ya!
Don’t worry…you’ll know me from the eye contact.
I will be very interested in looking at such a Marxist socialist.
And I don’t enjoy anyone being in pain….kfg invites the comments….enjoys it I think, and puts herself exactly where she finds herself. Nothing I do or say has anything to do with it….ask her!
Punkin’ out Box?
You do that. You do that from now on and lay off farmgrrl.
“It’s an opinion blog Price.”
Really? So a lie is not a lie on an opinion BLOG?
Strange little Walter Mitty world you live in, junior.
It’s not my opinion that you are a liar, it’s a fact.
Okay,here’s come comic relief by Duckman perhaps the finest rant of all time.
========================
Sounds like my old man!
You’re on a roll Linda! But speaking of roll, a bedroll is calling now. I’m out.
#
ANTI
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:53 pm | Permalink
Hey Regular, did you receive the email I sent you?
———————–
Haven’t seen it.
Was that the ‘grow you pensus by 4 inches” or “invest in alpaca wool now?”
Boxlock, on this one you’re wrong. very wrong.
kfg is a fighter and she refuses to be seen as vulnerable. But can’t you see that when she is most vulnerable is the same time she must attack so she doesn’t ever appear vulnerable?
It’s her life! It’s her desire to be just like me and you, recognized as a whole person who also happens to be half of a couple.
I don’t think I’ll ever have the words, but kfg is one hell of a woman, one absolutely great, kind, compassionate, loving person. And, she is one of the smartest people you’ll ever encounter.
I’ll quit. It’s been going on all day. I wish I could find the words, but I’m not the person kfg is, not smart, and not even as deserving.
Good night all.
It hurts too much to see someone you love hurt for no reason in the world.
And I am comfortable that this forum knows you and your son as liars Hank.
Blog history?
Hank’s lie on me was the first major personal attack here.
He told it just a few weeks after meeting me face to face. His credibility has been suspect ever since.
This diseased little man who married money and decided to be a dad when his kid was grown up has always preffered me the poor single dad as his target.
———————–
Haven’t seen it.
Was that the ‘grow you pensus by 4 inches” or “invest in alpaca wool now
—————
Ah, must have been an old email account (I used da google). I just sent a ‘get well soon’ email. Found the addy when you disappeared and everyone was concerned as to your health.
outlander,
The Outlaw Josie(sic) Wales is a good movie. As are ‘Unforgiven’, ‘Pale Rider’, and some others
But the posts from you and the other republics here remind me of the guys sitting around the campfire in this movie.
How ’bout more beans, Mr. Taggart?
Taggart: [fans his hat in the air] I’d say you had enough!
But if you want an alpaca Reg, send me $300 and I’ll tell you where to find a few…(shhh, they are not mine)
Cosmos, I applaud you!
That was actually humor coming from you and it was good!
btw, Unforgiven AND Blazing Saddles are excellent movies.
Linda,
Why is it that you only seem to be concerned about how others you disagree with are acting and never your so-called friends on this blog?
At your little get togethers do you ever tell BlueJay or any of the others to be nice and not to act the way they do here?
Just wondering.
KFG,
Apparently you are on the same bandwagon as others who were not part of the conversation.
I never “threatened” to bring a gun to any meetup.
I was only asked not to bring a gun after my inappropriate joking comment.
Let me guess, you are getting your information from BlueJay?
Actually Nathan?
Linda shared with me a rather telling story as to your father.
She made me promise not to share. So I won’t.
You have met ksfarmgrrl I think twice Nathan.
Are you ok with how she is treated here by such as okobserver and Boxlock and even your own dad?
One need look no farther to see the idiocy of BlueJay:
“Linda shared with me a rather telling story as to your father.
She made me promise not to share. So I won’t.”
For the memory banks >>>>
HLP
Posted July 14, 2008 at 12:14 am | Permalink
Chas.,
I’ve been very clear in the past. There is only one reason to pull a weapon. That is to use it. It’s purpose is to kill.
Good luck with that Hank… I hope no gays get shot in Wichita….
I know something that I have chosen not to share Nathan. Because a friend asked me not to.
Please answer my question.
Are you comfortable with how farmgrrl was treated on this thread?
You have met her.
Is it fair the things okobserver and Boxlock say?
Chas,
What does my fathers statement have to do with shooting gays in Wichita?
BlueJay,
Have you stopped to read half the crap that KFG says and you are asking if it is fair what others say to her?
Idiot.
Nathan met KFG at the first and second meet ups.
At the second, Nathan helped himself amply to the left over fried chicken that kfg brought.
And then he went right back to attacking her.
Nathan?
okobserver posted that she would do her best to make ksfarmgrrls life miserable.
Boxlock found her pain funny. And I am confronting him tomorrow for that.
I am looking for decency in you Nathan. Is there any there there?
BlueJay,
The only thing you are looking for is how to tell your next lie.
The mere fact that I believe that homosexuality is a sin is “attacking” KFG and that is about all I have done.
KFG,
The only problem with you wanting to say that this will take guns is that you are part of the party which doesn’t like them and wants to take them away.
Meanwhile, those you consider to be bigots probably out gun you by a factor of 10.
Nope, I don’t think guns will be any help to you at all.
Nathan, I am not going to answer you attempt at yet another impending rant… Just stop and think about it this time… You do so little of that… might do you good!!
There are other quotes much like that one… taking out targets at 1,000 yards, etc…. I wont post those — now….
Now is time for sleep!!
Chas,
I just don’t see how anyone could hold a converastion with you for more than 5 minutes. It must be agonizing for those you try to talk to outside of the blog.
Perhaps that stroke of yours did more than cause you to lie about typing in CAPS.
Nathan I have never lied here.
I have assumed. I have supposed.
I have never lied as you and your father have.
You are a lousy friend Nathan. When you were deployed, kfg was chief of many of your ideological enemies wishing the best for you.
Where are you for her?
Okobserver said she would personally work to make kfg miserable.
Boxlock, who you have never met, expressed joy at our friends pain.
KFG is not the focus of this forum and I don’t think she wishes to be.
All she wants to do is to live and let live and fiercely defend that.
Things don’t trend your way Nathan. I think you can count on those you have abused to be more kind to you than you have to them.
You better hope so.
BlueJay,
The only time KFG has ever really been kind to me is in person.
She is mean, vile, and out right nasty to me on this blog and anyone else who doesn’t agree with her on homosexual marriage.
Why do I have to hope for anything here from any of you?
This is a blog. We argue about things on the internet. My interactions with any of you are and most likely will continue to be few and far between except for this blog.
“The only time KFG has ever really been kind to me is in person.”
That IS where it counts isn’t it?
I’m tired Nathan. And tomorrow I take time out of feeding me and my kid to go and meet someone who is mean to a friend of mine. I don’t get anything out of that other than asking and understanding why someone who has presumes to make rules over those who have not.
I made a remark here yesterday that was unkind to frmgrl and for that I apologize. I of course would not want to see her miserable, at least not because of something I did to cause it. She made some very unkind remark about my mom at a time I am still not over losing her. It had no place in our conversation.
I have always said that I oppose same sex marriage for reasons outside my faith. She can’t accept that. I don’t make personal attacks on her. I try to keep this on a non personal level and just argue the issue. My posts are still available and if you want to see the truth please review them. I even quit posting for a while because I was so mad at her I knew my posts wouldn’t be well thought out.
Even when I left she kept up the attacks.BJ and Linda like to stir the pot and have no problem with being liars in the process. They know what I said and know what they post is untrue.
lindainks55 posts:
“It’s her life! It’s her desire to be just like me and you, recognized as a whole person who also happens to be half of a couple.”
Linda,
I appreciate the support you give to someone you consider a friend. But if kfg whats what you say above then she should live her life in that way. There are consequences to the decisions people make and the way they live their lives, and to expect not to experience those consequences, both good and bad, is unrealistic.
okobserver absolutely nails it about kfg in his post immediately above. She attacks people personally she disagrees with right from the get go in any conversation. How can she, or you for that matter, expect her to be treated differently?
I don’t by nature dislike anybody, but I do dislike some ideologies and life styles I consider bad for the individual and bad for society and feel the obligation to voice that. If she can’t take that in a mature, civil manner then she, nor you, should complain when it comes flying right back at her.
“Boxlock, who you have never met, expressed joy at our friends pain.”
That is an outright lie of your construction BJ.
I never said that….I said I find it “hilarious” that people are getting so upset about something they have really never had in history and is an oxymoron in terms. And, that folks on this blog were turning it into such a long and hotly debated topic. I mean, you have a small group, percentage wise, of the population that for their sake wants to change the meaning of marriage into something else that the rest do not agree with….that’s selfish, self-centered.
Maybe ‘incredulous’ would have been a more accurate term but my meaning is the same, gays are no worse off now than ever before. Except of course when the CA Court stepped in to overrule the vote in that state for a short period and they act like the whole world has suddenly change.
I read just fine Boxlock.
You can tell me face to face later today why it is you get pleasure from hurting people you do not know who have done you no harm.
“You can tell me face to face later today why it is you get pleasure from hurting people you do not know who have done you no harm.”
BJ, you ask kfg the same question. She is the one months ago, when I first found this hell hole, that attacked me personally for expressing my opinion when I did so in an honest yet kind way.
Ask her why she likes to start fights.
No one forces you to read or participate here Boxlock.
You can make your case to me, in person, later today.
Sounds like a deal.
Business travel kept bigotbox away?
HAhahahahahahahahah. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA.
Yeah, that’s why he had to change his nic to come back here.
It’s clear he was banned along with other posters for spoofing, among other things.
A liar. But then, what else would I expect from a “christian” like mr. bigot. Lies? Check. Hate? Check. Theft? Let me check my wallet….
Thank you all for your kind words, but I dont need your defense.
These con buttmunches prove, with everypost, why religion is the most dangerous thing in America. Not socialism, not democrats, hell, not even bushco.
Churches and religions are the biggest threat to whatever democracy still remains.
Let ‘em post. I wonder how many people they brought to christ today….
If you represent christ? Jesus must REALLY be weeping!
The presumptuous A$$ kfg strkes again.
I added the ‘20′ to my nic because it more accurately describes the boxlock 20 ga. classic double I chose the nic from in the first place.
That is easily done in the ‘member center’.
Notice, okobserver apologized for her comments.
KFG? Well, we won’t hold our breath.
Hey kfg, I’m meeting BJ at noon today, why don’t you come too. You’ve got time if you get moving. We’ll be having so much fun it will still be going on when you get here.
Phcuk you bigotbox. Why did you have to change your nic? Because you were banned?
heheh. AHAHAHAHAHHAHA.
I’ve NEVER been banned.
Real christian of you, the lying that got you banned.
I wouldnt walk across the street to meet you much less drive four hours.
I can interact with everyday bigots right where I am. We have churches too, ya know.
nitwit
This, from another blog, is for all the christian bigots, the black bigots, the pseudo compassionate bigots.. oh hell…
This is for all of kansas.
“I am fing sick and fing tired of the apologists
NO, Your religion, race, culture does not excuse homophobia. Really, NO it fing does not.
I come from a homophobic culture and country. I do not think its OK. I do not think India is evolved and thats really all there is to it. I cannot excuse my people for being narrowminded towards me. I cannot excuse the laws we have against us. All of it is unexcusable. Indian have as much of a moral imperative to be less bigoted as westerners do.
I am tired of people excusing homophobia because of religion. Wanting us to be more religion-sensitive while their religion doesn’t find the need to be sensitive towards us, is ridiculous. For those of you who sit in your churches while they condemn us, while you claim not to personally condemn us, remember your silence is consent.
SILENCE IS CONSENT
SILENCE = DEATH.”
Isnt that what you accused obama of doing? Remaining silent while the rev wright spewed his crap?
And you remain silent while your churches spew this crap?
That makes you just as guilty.
But then, you’d have to have some level of self awareness to understand that.
Hmmmm….
Yep. Meter says you have NO awareness, self or otherwise.
But please, hide behind that bible. I hear it is a great way to stop werewolves and other things that go bump in the night.
I’ve never been banned. the system won’t let one change their nic, only the password. So I ‘unsubscribed’ and resubscribed adding the ‘20′ to the nic. Being banned I would assume bans the email address as well.
But then you are far to ignorant to come to any conclusion but one that you desire the way you want it to be.
Come to BJ and my meet up today, after all he’s defending your honor, kind of a joke since you have none.
A.. Back off and let those men who want to marry men, marry men.
B.. Allow those women who want to marry women, marry women.
C.. Allow those folks who want to abort their babies, abort their babies.
D.. In three generations, there will be no Democrats..
“I’ve never been banned. the system won’t let one change their nic, only the password. So I ‘unsubscribed’ and resubscribed adding the ‘20? to the nic.”
Still doesnt explain why.
Why so important to unsubscribe and then resubscribe JUST to add the 20?
heheheh. AAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.
Yep. Add bigotbox to the LIST of people who got banned last week. No explanation for the nic change?
heheheh> AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHA.
Talk about no honor. You know, baby jesus cries when you lie…and it is SO OBVIOUS that is what you are doing.
Why JR wants to meet you is a mystery to me. Just a glutton for nut cases.
Unless… never mind…
I’ve gotta say this. The more this Marriage argument goes on and it is all “hatred” “bigotry” from the pro crowd towards the anti crowd is driving people away and alienating them from the cause in my opinion.
I don’t see the correlation between being anti-gay marriage and the civil rights movement of the 1960’s. If I was an African-American I would be extremely pissed off at homosexuals comparing the marriage struggle to the struggle for equal rights for the black community.
Sock puppet.
I bet bigotbox doesnt show for the meetup with JR.
“If I was an African-American I would be extremely pissed off at homosexuals comparing the marriage struggle to the struggle for equal rights for the black community.”
Oh, they ARE pissed off. They NEED to remain the ONLY victims. They want to pull the ladder up behind themselves to ensure no one else horns in on their action.
I mean, if others have been harmed by bigotry, where does that leave them?
Ever notice that Junior only picks places for meet-ups he can drive by and not stop?
Junior will most likely use the same technique he did with me, do the supposed drive by and somehow miraculously come away with knowledge about the person he has yet to meet.
Nitwit,
I told you above, I wanted to add the ‘20′ because it more accurately describes the very nice classic side x side double 20 ga. I bought for this hunting season. The boxlock was too generic.
Regular,
We shall see and I will report about BJ.
They NEED to remain the ONLY victims. They want to pull the ladder up behind themselves to ensure no one else horns in on their action.
I mean, if others have been harmed by bigotry, where does that leave them?
============
WOW! If a ‘Con’ said that, they would be crucified as a racist!
But I guess homo Libs can get away with it.
(here’s your pass)
Hee hee hee heeeeee!
“I told you above, I wanted to add the ‘20? because it more accurately describes the very nice classic side x side double 20 ga. I bought for this hunting season. The boxlock was too generic.”
Hahahahahahahah!
yeah. Right. Just keep shoveling it. ‘Cause no one but you is buying it….
bigot box wont show
he’s afraid of JR
The TRUTH always gets a pass Anti.
You just dont have any experience with it…
It’s time to stop coddling them and call them out on their own bigotry.
They DONT get a pass!
I just don’t think the battle is the same at all.
I would imagine a majority of Americans support Civil Unions as I do and making the “instituition” of marriage if you will, a strictly spiritual union.
There would be churches that would be free to marry homosexuals. There would be churches free not to.
The legal ceremony of uniting a couple would be a civil union, with all rights and benefits under the law the same.
How would you feel about that KFG?
It’s time to stop coddling them…
===========
You’ll find no disagreement here, KFG.
But I will go further, NO group should be coddled.
“But I will go further, NO group should be coddled.”
I agree with that too.
But all PEOPLE should be equal, have equal protection under the law, and have equal civil rights.
Too bad some coddled groups like their coddling so much they dont want OTHERS to have equality.
“How would you feel about that KFG?”
Why would I be against that?
As long as my marriage is equal in the eyes of the law to YOUR marriage, I have no problem.
I’ve said a million times I dont care what churches do in their own realm. They can dance the hokey pokey, practice ritualized cannibalism, handle snakes…
Oh wait. The last two are true!
“But all PEOPLE should be equal, have equal protection under the law, and have equal civil rights.”
And of course they DO!!! Everyone is free to marry the person of the opposite sex they so desire within the civil laws surrounding marriage.
But all PEOPLE should be equal, have equal protection under the law, and have equal civil rights.
Too bad some coddled groups like their coddling so much they dont want OTHERS to have equality.
———–
Agreed, like I have said before I don’t care if the homos get married. Get married, I still think it’s wrong, but I will not stop it.
If you want to ride the horse that is America, Great!! Just don’t don’t bitch if it bucks you off. Get back on.
“If you want to ride the horse that is America, Great!! Just don’t don’t bitch if it bucks you off. Get back on.”
Or you could just shoot the horse and put it out of it’s misery.
The world would thank you for it.
Or you could just shoot the horse and put it out of it’s misery.
The world would thank you for it.
===================
KFG,
I don’t think destroying America is the rational solution to your problems.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 14, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink
“How would you feel about that KFG?”
Why would I be against that?
As long as my marriage is equal in the eyes of the law to YOUR marriage, I have no problem.
————————————————–So isn’t that what this is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_California
“And of course they DO!!! Everyone is free to marry the person of the opposite sex they so desire within the civil laws surrounding marriage.”
I wonder which preacher has his hand up bigot’s butt to mouth the words for him.
That’s so stupid it hurts my ears. But it does prove the point.
Bigots like boxlicker dont WANT my marriage to be equal to theirs. It’s ALL about the imagined superiority. Having MY relationship on an equal legal footing with his would diminish his fragile ego.
At least that’s what his wife tells me across the pillow…
Kia, are you really that stupid or do you just play one on tv?
The federal government does NOT recognize civil unions for the purposes of Social Security, health insurance, or any of the 1000 benefits of marriage granted to straight people.
Even the MARRIAGES in Mass and Conn are NOT recognized by the federal government.
Nice try though at feigning dumb. You succeeded
KFG, I know this is real late in this thread (but I hardly float to here anymore–too much same-ole,same-ole), but I really feel y’all are going about this all wrong. You shouldn’t be fighting for equal right with straights; y’all should be fighting to force straights to have equal rights with gays–NONE!
Abolish marriage of every stripe. You’ll for-sure get a butt-load of men behind your cause, and I’m sure a fair number of women.
“You shouldn’t be fighting for equal right with straights; y’all should be fighting to force straights to have equal rights with gays–NONE!
Abolish marriage of every stripe. You’ll for-sure get a butt-load of men behind your cause, and I’m sure a fair number of women.”
Well G, that is certainly what I prefer. Much better than this fiction of “civil unions” with “equal” rights.
But ya know, heteros love their special privileges. They wont want to give them up. It’s easier to get them to give them to us than it is to get them off the government and benefits teat.
I see KFG is in full blown melt down today.
Nathan? ESAD. KMA. Other alphabet soup, and up your nose with a rubber hose.
Killed anyone lately?
Ya know, if you are right and there really are pearly gates and a judgement day?
I’d much rather answer for my soul than yours.
I dont have any blood on my hands.
you?
heheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA.
Roast in hell.
“Bigots like boxlicker dont[sic] WANT my marriage to be equal to theirs. It’s ALL about the imagined superiority. Having MY relationship on an equal legal footing with his would diminish his fragile ego. At least that’s what his wife tells me across the pillow…”
It isn’t equal, it doesn’t even exist as marriage at all, it’s only a relationship, and a very weak and sick one at that as can be ascertained by the depraved comment in the last sentence. That shows the depth and quality of the homosexual relationship of kfg. It doesn’t and will never be deserving of the term marriage.
KFG,
It is rather ironic watching you be as vitriolic as you are while you tell others how much they “hate” you because they simply disagree with your lifestyle choice.
Sorry, but I don’t believe that such a choice deserves special government protections and recognition.
And your being a bitter mean and hateful person sure isn’t going to change anyones minds.
LOL
Heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Bigotbox proves exactly what I said. His imagined superiority is just that. Imagined. His wife confirms it.
I love the way she screams…
Oh, and cue nathan’s sheepdog “siht” in 3…2….1….
KFG,
Better watch out, MonkeyHawk doesn’t like it when you start “judging” people like that.
I have no worries about my salvation. You on the other hand? Well, as long as you continue to live a life of willful sin….
“And your being a bitter mean and hateful person sure isn’t going to change anyones minds.”
And neither does your bible thumping.
Brought anyone to christ lately? Even HALF as many as you’ve driven away?
We know what you are fighting for and it isnt liberty and equality for all Americans.
It’s money and theocracy.
Mercenary. And a souless one at that.
WHY TF do you even care about marriage? Short of dragging off a woman by the hair, you are not likely to have one.
nitwit
Yesterday morning I tried to get us all to talk about sex. But, no, we talked about marriage. I’ve been hearing for many years that the two subjects are mutually exclusive.
“I have no worries about my salvation.”
Of course not. You’ll just SHOOT god if you dont like what he says about you and yours.
What a joke you are.
Could there BE a more lonely and disfunctional person than you?
I think not.
lindainks55
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:10 am | Permalink
Yesterday morning I tried to get us all to talk about sex. But, no, we talked about marriage. I’ve been hearing for many years that the two subjects are mutually exclusive.
—————————————————-
I had a friend that wanted to be a fighter. I told him to get married. LOL.
“It doesn’t and will never be deserving of the term marriage.”
In an hour, you must tell me how SUCH a meaningless (your opinion) relationship diminishes your own marriage.
You are quite nasty today KFG.
“And your being a bitter mean and hateful person sure isn’t going to change anyones minds.”
That’s actually kinda funny considering how well being NICE and workin TOGETHER has worked for the gay community.
Civil war will be the only answer.
You should LOVE that.
TOOT TOOT, TOOT TOOT
Whats that?
That is the sound of KFG about to explode!
LOOK OUT!
“You are quite nasty today KFG”
And you are an ignorant bigot EVERY day.
KFG,
LOL, civil war?
As I said, you are part of the party who doesn’t believe in having guns and wants to take them away.
You sure you want to make this a shooting war?
Because you will definately not win at all then.
LOL
Civil war will be the only answer.
===============
Not going to happen due to homo issues.
Sorry.
“In an hour, you must tell me”
He wont show. Coward. Sock puppet and bigot.
And you are an ignorant bigot EVERY day.
==========
How so?
“As I said, you are part of the party who doesn’t believe in having guns and wants to take them away.”
And you are a stupid liar.
First, I’m not a democrat, which you already know, and second, democrats dont want to take your guns.
But keep repeating the lie. I’m sure it makes jesus happy when you lie.
bigot, bigot, bigot…..Kinda loses it’s flavor when you call everyone a bigot, except of course yourself.
Get some help from a mental professional, it will do you some good.
Nice to know there will be no war. If we start shoting, you’ll just lay down and die.
Maybe there is a god…
lindainks55
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:10 am | Permalink
Yesterday morning I tried to get us all to talk about sex.
So Sarah Palin asks Todd, “Have you been having sex behind my back?” Todd responded, “Who did you think it was?”
Bush asked Cheney, “Have you been having sex behind my back?” Cheney responded, “Yeah, and you’re flat and dry, biotch!”
I do love the how you have shown the Hypocrisy of your fellow liberals though KFG.
You have said far more threatening things in this thread about guns and war and killing people than I have ever even come close to implying with one joking comment over a year ago.
Linda and BlueJay have been pissing in their pants about my comment from a year ago and now look at you.
LOL, watch how neither BlueJay nor Linda will say one thing about the absolutely crazy statements you have made here.
Nope, they will be proven hypocrites now and have no leg to stand on when they comment about my comment from over a year ago.
Thank you.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink
Civil war will be the only answer.
—————————————————-
I really think there is equal ground to be found in the compromise of civil unions.
Civil war? You gotta be kidding.
Crazy can be fixed.
Stupid? Not so much…
Guns god and gays.
You people will be screaming that all the way to hell.
Libs want guns for what they were intended for–to revolt against a corrupt gov’t; Cons want guns ‘cuz it’s their god-given right to kill things.
KFG,
In this election, how many Republicans did you vote for?
ghotiphaze
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:20 am | Permalink
lindainks55
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:10 am | Permalink
Yesterday morning I tried to get us all to talk about sex.
So Sarah Palin asks Todd, “Have you been having sex behind my back?” Todd responded, “Who did you think it was?”
Bush asked Cheney, “Have you been having sex behind my back?” Cheney responded, “Yeah, and you’re flat and dry, biotch!”
————————————————–
One of my favorite scenes ever from The Family Guy
Dick Cheney as the Wal-Mart greeter.
F-you
F-you
F-you
F-you
“Civil war? You gotta be kidding.”
Bring it.
If nathan is the best christian soldier you got? We’ll win easily.
Hell, even the marines dont want him in iraq.
I think animal control needs to dart the chicken lady and get her to a mental institution before she hurts someone or herself…. :(
I’m just wondering how many you think would sign up to fight on the Gay side?
Nathan, who would you be if you didnt have gays to be superior over?
I guess you’d have to find another group to make you feel “manly”.
You are nothing without someone to push against. Glad I can provide you with a reason for existence. Jesus must be so proud to have your whiny ass on his side.
BOO!
Bedwetter.
Why do I have the feeling I’LL be married before nathan will?
Mr_Kia
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:25 am | Permalink
I’m just wondering how many you think would sign up to fight on the Gay side?
———————
Not many.
Pink camo really stands out…That wouldn’t help them any.
Anti must need a belly rub again. I must be keeping his wife too long….
KFG, not meanin’ to change the subject (ok, I am) but how have your oil checks been doing?
(I’m assuming you get royalties on your farm as you can’t sink a t-post without hitting oil in that part of Kansas)
mine bottomed out when crude spiked. Then again, one company declared bankrupcy (go figure) and I’ve not seen a check on those leases since June.
kfg call herself “gay”…..folks read her posts, she is anything but gay, she is lost, miserable and hateful, possessed(?)….her own worst punishment.
Too bad.
You know KFG, if the homos wouldn’t have made themselves into such an obvious joke maybe their cause would be a little further along.
You are only promoting the stereotype.
KFG,
Just a mean, bitter, nasty person.
That is all you got.
You remind me of a 5 year old who doesn’t get her way so she starts crying and screaming.
LOL
If Gay Marriage advocates really want to get this done they need to work at getting it off of ballots and get the politicians on their side.
The President-elect and Vice President are not in favor of Gay Marriage.
You can’t continue to get issues on the ballot, lose and expect the public to back it.
Advocates for Gay Marriage should be against any Propositions in their favor and work on the Constitution if they expect change.
“If nathan is the best christian soldier you got? We’ll win easily.”
True dat kfg.
HE is their future?
It has been awhile since the Editors shut down a thread.
I wonder if they will here?
I am amazed that they have not after all of the crap that KFG has posted already.
Sadly ironic.
You make fun of how much you are not scared of me one day, but come the next Linda and BlueJay will be talking about how scared they are of me again.
From one joking comment made over a year ago.
Meanwhile we have KFG here talking about killing biggots, using guns, and civil war.
Nope, BlueJay and Linda, you are nothing but Hypocrites.
“KFG,
Just a mean, bitter, nasty person.”
You’ve met her and you know better Nathan.
My the armload of her home cooking you carried away from that picnic! Helping yourself to the the food is the one way you weren’t shy.
I don’t think of KFG as gay (wot the snot they got to be gay about????_)
I prefer non-traditional lifestyle. Alternate just don’t fly: married CEO with 3 mistresses on the side is an alternative; Mormons polygamy is an alternative; non-married but scroggin’ everything in sight is an alternative. And those are all traditional!
Whoa, got a run, got an appointment….you too BM, I mean BJ.
BlueJay,
Have you even read half the comments she has made here towards me?
It doesn’t matter how much damn chicken she gave me over a year ago if she is going to be saying the things she does to me now.
My father and I fed both you and your son and welcomed you out to our clubhouse.
Why don’t you show us any more respect than you do now?
Idiot.
I think we need to call the waaaaaaaaaambulance for nathan. He’s got his poor little feelings hurt again.
Here’s a little something for you to think about.
If you live to be a hundred, you will NEVER have as many people love and respect you as I do.
Never.
You wonder why no one shows you respect?
Because you dont deserve it.
You can bluster all you want, but we know the truth of your life. And it’s cold and lonely. Someday your Dad will be gone, just like all our Dads.
I hope your inheritance keeps you warm.
Or is happiness a warm gun for you?
Doesnt matter. We know why you are always packing.
The world is a cold and lonely place for you.
The military was all that would have you. And now even THEY dont want you in iraq.
And if bigotbox’s marriage was HALF as good as he pretends?
He’d be spending time with his wife, not here.
Same with Anti. I love how all you guys say how wonderful your lives are. Words on a page.
People know me and have visited here and know the truth about me. You guys?
hehehe. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHA.
lindainks55
Posted November 14, 2008 at 11:10 am | Permalink
Yesterday morning I tried to get us all to talk about sex. But, no, we talked about marriage. I’ve been hearing for many years that the two subjects are mutually exclusive.
—————-
Sorry Linda I have wondered why you are such a smug bitter little person who is hyper critical of everyone else and mistakenly thinks you are superior to everyone else – now I know your husband has figured it out also.
I don’t think of KFG as gay…
[snip]
I prefer non-traditional lifestyle.
Why do you or why does anyone feel the need to label her? KSFrmGrrl, American citizen. Nuff said right?
Should she enjoy the same benefits as Nathan? I think she should. After all, Nathan is an American citizen. Period.
This thread is just a magnet for sock puppets.
Talk amongst yourselves.
But be afraid.
Be VERY afraid.
Be VERY afraid.
==================
Of what?
KFG,
Be afraid of what?
KFG I have a great deal of respect for Nathan. He is a person of principles. He doesn’t brag on his own importance. He doesn’t bore us with needless personal information like you do. And last but not least he is serving our great country as many who have gone before him. Not to make himself important but because he has seen the need to volunteer to fight for others not able to fight for themselves. The freedoms we enjoy didn’t come easily. But if we as a country turn our elections into jokes as Minnesota has done or as the ‘protestors’ in CA then these freedoms aren’t guaranteed. We can lose them. We can hand all of the power to the courts. Thanks Nathan for serving.
I’m waiting for the ‘afraid of what’ also.
At least nathan is a real person.
Not a sock puppet like you, grmie.
I’m still waiting on an explanation of how that five dollar piece of paper gave you all the rights of marriage.
Sock puppet AND a liar.
For the record my name is not now nor has it ever been germie. That is your vitriol spewing over. What makes me a sock puppet? Explain it to me.
Everyone who read what I posted yesterday and its context know that what I said was in response to a poster that said without marriage a partner couldn’t make health decision or financial decision for their partner. I said that:
” Raptor
Posted November 13, 2008 at 7:09 am | Permalink
I know some gay couples that have been together longer than a lot of hetero marriages…yet they cannot act on each other’s behalf, they cannot legally sign contracts for each other, they cannot make medical decisions for the other like “legally” married people.
Ridiculous attack on people because of fear or stupidity..not sure which one.
———–
Raptor another strawman argument. None of this is true. In fact it is flat out prevaricating in most if not all of what you said.
Legal union are legal in CA. A simple piece of paper takes care of these issues. I preformed these functions for my mom and all we needed was a documented signature on a form. A $5 notary fee took care of that.
This issue isn’t as simple as many here would like to make it as I have said ad nauseum.”
Deal in truth KFG. It is much easier because can argue your point much better in that manner.
And I will have to give you one thing today. You have finally admitted that it isn’t about marrying your partner it is the benefits you want. That at least is honest and also is what I have always argued as a drawback to redefining marriage.
Thank you okobserver.
It doesn’t bother me when people like KFG say the crap they do. I know what the truth is and they obviously have no interest in that.
KFG is simply bitter and has to be mean and nasty here.
Okob,
You talking about a power of attorney?
You have finally admitted that it isn’t about marrying your partner it is the benefits you want. That at least is honest and also is what I have always argued as a drawback to redefining marriage.
Why is that a drawback? Why redefine marriage? Why not let the churches manage marriage and the gov’t manage civil unions?
Sol I don’t have a problem with what you said. I have actually advocated that here before.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 14, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink
Kia, are you really that stupid or do you just play one on tv?
The federal government does NOT recognize civil unions for the purposes of Social Security, health insurance, or any of the 1000 benefits of marriage granted to straight people.
Even the MARRIAGES in Mass and Conn are NOT recognized by the federal government.
Nice try though at feigning dumb. You succeeded
——————-
You have misunderstood what this is all about it would appear. And why some would say should this country be forced to get rid of a system that was put in place to protect the children and widow of the working father/husband because gays/lesbians want the right to marry. This isn’t a two sided issue.
The majority of American understand this I think, and that is why the proposals to prohibit SSM keep getting voted in.
And Sol, no I am talking about a paper you can sign, one sheet that will give someone the right to make all medical decisions for you if you are unable to, another to let someone handle financial decisions if you are unable to. We just went through this with no problems. They just had to be notarized and witnessed and they were legally binding.
Checking and savings accounts can be put in whoses ever name you want. Property such as a car can be registered as and/or whoever you want to be entitled to it. Real estate can be put as tenants in common or your survivor be given a quitclaim deed so that they own it if something happens to you.
The re-definition of marriage is the target here. That is what the demonstrations are about. We first need to define the battlelines and then negotiate a solution.
I can understand you not wanting to ‘redefine marriage’ as per your beliefs. I advocate the gov’t get our of the marriage game completely. Let the churches have it. The gov’t should recognize civil unions though. Be it SSM or OSM.
Are you against a SSM couple getting survivor benefits?
Sol – agreed. This is what I have been saying for some time now.
In fact, such a ‘union’ might be appropriate for widowed sisters who want to combine their resources in a difficult world.
Really Sol it isn’t about my faith. I really think that by redefining marriage we will open a legal can of worms. Marriage will be whatever the loudest protester wants to make it. Polygamy has been advocating for legal status much longer than gays/lesbians. I know there is a major problem with unfunded liabilities if the definition changes.
“Are you against a SSM couple getting survivor benefits?”
No but I am against jepardizing a system that was designed as a lifeboat for families who lose a breadwinner and also as a retirement plan for many who don’t plan for retirment. Today most everyone works so they could collect their own benefits. Same thing with medicare for your retirement. Most people will gualify at age 65. Except for people like Chas who opt out.
I worked in insurance for years and HR for many of those years. There are well thought out positions. I watched and was instrumental in helping companies extend benefits to same sex partners. The final question has to be should 90% of the population lose what they currently have so that 10% can marry and put SS in jeopardy?
“define the battlelines and then negotiate a solution.”
IMO simple – as Sol notes. “Marriage” is an emotionally charged Sacrament in various churches. Caeser has no business interfering with the churches in that. So – my solution (and Sols I think) – separate them. Render unto God that which is God’s (Sacraments) and unto Caeser that which is Caeser’s (legal union).
Ben this sounds very compassionate and I wish that we lived in the kind of world that this could happen. Unfortunately we don’t. Coming from the insurance industry I can tell you that their are already many, many ways in which people try and scam the system. For every system their is a shyster in waiting.
I think this is what took Bush down. He wanted to be a compassionate conservative and it just didn’t work. Spending went through the roof and still it wasn’t enough.
And no it wasn’t just the war. Really study spending under Bush and you will start to see what I am talking about.
“put SS in jeopardy?”
I suspect gay couples are statistically more likely to be earning their own benefits (as opposed to spousal) than heterosexual couples. So how does that hurt SS?
So are you advocating scraping SS or increasing the program with no limits?
As KFG finally admitted this morning this is the issue.
If it is only 10% how can they truely jeopardize an already bankrupt system. The system bankrupted by elected officials.
I do not advocate redefining marriage, just relocating it.
Ben most people haven’t really studied this as the insurance company has. If we redefine marriage or call it a civil union and redefine that then we are opening a new frontier.
Polygimist want into this program. The size of this group can’t accurately be measured. So we have to assume Joe Green who was recently prosecuted for this is typical. He has twelve wives and sixty eight children. How does this work with our current SS program which BTW has no lockbox and no money?
“And if bigotbox’s marriage was HALF as good as he pretends?
He’d be spending time with his wife, not here.”
Nitwit, she’s at work and I at home today working bu about to leave for an appointment across town, just back from three days on the road. Out around your part of the state, Wakeeney, Quinter, Hill City, Osborne, Hays. I don’t think you are very well thought of as no one could say anything nice about you.
Just got off the phone with my wife as well….she called from work to say hi and check about dinner tonight and our trip to Oklahoma tomorrow.
kfg, you don’t know half as much as you think you do. Go talk to your chickens, they might listen but I doubt it.
Sol 10% of a population base as large as ours would be a huge unfunded mandate. Think of the screams we heard about ‘no child left behind’ being unfunded and a drag on the states. This would dwarf that payout by billions.
Just my thoughts on this. I have to go but this isn’t a one demensional issue. It hasn’t been thought out. It is being looked at as an emotional issue because that is how is it presented to the public. How long did it take KFG to admit that it was about the money as I have said all along.
She doesn’t want a civil union. She told you that. So why are you two straight guys bargaining for something she doesn’t even want?
Just kidding of course.
Boxlock,
Did BlueJay put on a clean T-shirt for your visit?
“Polygimist want into this program.”
That might be less bad than what they are doing now. All the extra ‘wives’ are unwed mothers and on welfare. Perhaps if these Christians were allowed some sort of plural marriage the husband might then take responsibility to support his family.
Ben I can tell you that what for you is a one sentence solution is a huge problem when considering implementing it.
I can’t tell you the number of guys that would drop the ‘ex’ and bring on a ‘common law’ wife. Only recently have companies started to require proof of marriage, divorce, common law, etc… There was an article in our paper this very week about unions complaining about the companies requirements for these.
After paying out thousand on the new wife and step kids who of course were also added, the real wife who wasn’t an ‘ex’ would alert us because her claims were denied.
In your utopian world where everyone who needs help would get it. There are no cheaters and only honest needy people. What if the sisters that want to ‘marry’ because they need to retire and have no money to retire on. They gave all of their money to the mission program at church because they needed it and now they want you to support them. Is it OK? That is a true story.
I am seeing through realistic eyes. Your are seeing through idealistic eyes. Yours probably let you sleep at night but don’t solve the problem only make it worse.
Okobserver,
I have a question for you. How long does one have to be married to their spouse to be eligible for their SS benefits?
Nathaniel Posted November 14, 2008 at 1:03 pm |
“Boxlock,
Did BlueJay put on a clean T-shirt for your visit?”
Hi Nathaniel, we named my oldest grandson Nathaniel by the way though he goes by Nate.
I will answer you later, one, I have to run to an appointment across town, and get my oil changed for a trip tomorrow. Two, I have a note written to BJ that I emailed to myself so it would show a time stamp and will copy and paste into the blog later.
Thanks for asking.
I;m not a lawyer or SS person but I believe it is 10 years and then at full retirement age you would be entitled to 1/2 of their full benefit or your own benefit whichever is greater. They would take your benefit and then pay the fifference from his entitlement.
This of course is looks like a flaw in the system because of the higher divorce rate and you are never allowed to draw from more than one ex. Sadly many marriages don’t even make it to the 10 year mark.
Thanks. The reason I asked is because my mother was widowed last year. Although they were common law for 25 years they hadn’t been ‘married’ 10 years. She was denied. I really don’t know much about it, just curious what the length of marriage rule was.
okob – I know of no utopias. I do not live in a utopian world and never have.
Whichiwoman-
Kansas recognizes a common law marriage. If I recall, it is a matter of black letrer law–but it could be otherwise. In any case, since Kansas recognizes common law marriages, she should be able to contest the ruling. Your mother was in fact, married, for 25 years.
For others, good example of why getting your paperwork, including marriage papers,in order.
There are some conditions, such as if they established a domicile, presented themselves as man and wife, etc. You would have to look it up to make sure they were in fact married by common law.
I shaved and everything Nathan.
I sat outside the Dillons from 11:50 til 12;20.
I went inside for a drink and to use the rest room. Then, I waited outside from 12:22 to 12:25.
Boxy was a no show.
Anybody surprised?
I will do that LJ, thanks!
“My father and I fed both you and your son and welcomed you out to our clubhouse.
Why don’t you show us any more respect than you do now?”
Maybe because you don’t have a whole lot to say to my face but plenty to lie about on the blog?
P S Don’t worry about hosting us again.
I had thought maybe Boxlock was the guy in the little yellow Scion parked in the handicapped stall.
But I can see by the time of his posts here, he had no intention of keeping our meeting.
She should be able to contest that. She would need proof that they presented themself publically as husband and wife. That is the Kansas requirement. In Ok you had to have shared a domicile for 7 years or more but in Kansas the way it was explained to us was that you could check into a motel as Mr. and Mrs and that was legal proof of common law. There is a form now that has to be filed but I’m not sure that was the case 25 years ago.
Wichi how did they file with the IRS? I know this came up a lot and there is now a simple form that is filed with the state. It has to be witnessed and filed with the state and also required that you get a divorce if you ever separate even though you never technically married.
Did he carry her on company insurance, etc… All of this would meet the Kansas requirement for marriage and if recognized by a state the IRS and SS are required to accept it unless it violates federal law.
Ben sorry. Didn’t mean to offend. It’s just that this is a tremendously complicated issue. I understand why when laws are written even though the law can be stated in one sentence there is something like 1000 pages of documentation to explain it.
The devil really is in the detail.
okob – with all the issues of fraud etc with marriage it seems there is only one solution – DO AWAY WITH IT ALTOGETHER! We must not allow heterosexuals to get married because they will scam the system.