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336 Comments
I’m gonna start a pool on when the new Congress will see first action on the next round of gun banning proposals. I need to iron out the specifics of how to determine the winner.
I’m thinking that the most logical indicator would be an official action in commitee of either house. But that would leave out anything that got shoved into another bill during floor action.
I’m open to suggestions.
What’s with the fixation on guns?
How many can you hold at once? How many can you fire at once?
Guns are for losers.
B.J.
“Guns are for losers.”
Tell that to the men who died to make this nation.
Oh…I keep forgeting, you hate the very founding principles of this nation.
Never mind.
“Tell that to the men who died to make this nation.”
This nation was not made by guns or people with guns.
At the time of the Founders, your average gun took over a minute to load and fire.
“At the time of the Founders, your average gun took over a minute to load and fire.”
But they would kill you just as dead.
“…you hate the very founding principles of this nation.”
You better believe it.
Lots of brave lies about freedom and justice but they only applied to rich white men.
B.J.
“Lots of brave lies about freedom and justice but they only applied to rich white men.”
….where a man who was born dirt poor into a less than ideal family structure just got elected President.
typical hateful commment from bj:
“guns are for losers”
Here is a thought, bj…if you hate guns, DON”T OWN ONE! But, your judgmental comments about people who do like them is uncalled for.
that would be like my telling you what kind of pet to own based on MY preferences.
Believe it or not, we still have a modicum of freedom of choice in this country, and people have choices. Your insulting comments about other peoples’ preferences is juvenile.
WESTFIELD, Mass. – An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.
The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman’s Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.
Police said the boy, Christopher Bizilj (Bah-SEAL) of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and called the death a “self-inflicted accidental shooting.”
As the boy fired the Uzi, “the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head,” police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. The boy died at a hospital.
The death of a soldier who shot himself in the chest on duty in Afghanistan was a tragic accident, an inquest heard.
Lance Corporal George Davey, 23, from Beccles on the Norfolk/Suffolk border, died after his gun went off while he was cleaning it.
A bullet from his rifle hit the soldier, from the First Battalion Royal Anglians, in his chest.
The inquest at Lowestoft recorded a verdict of accidental death.
mx….3 people died in car accidents yesterday in New York.
Shall we ban private ownership of cars?
AS gun is a tool, not an object of worship.
That is unless one NEEDS that tool to protect greed.
Almost no one depends on guns to provide food these days.
From the crazy fundy files:
Religious values dictate that 13 year old rape victim should be stoned to death for her crime of adultery.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=a7cuz2auN8RE&refer=africa
Sick enough that a 13 year old was forced into marriage but God’s law dictates that if she is gang raped when she is married then the punishment is a public stoning (it’s in the Old Testament Christians (Lev 20:10), it’s not like you get off scot free because it’s a Muslim country). So she is dragged to an arena where a thousand people attend to watch the spectacle.
Yet I’m told I should respect their religious views. Yeah, that’ll be the day.
A politicians stance on the Second Amendment generally guarantees that they have great respect for the whole Constitution. They also tend to be tough on crime. 2A stance usually tells me all I need to know about any politician.
Hey speaking of religious kooks?
Now that Sarah Palin has lost, there is no need for a show shotgun wedding for her daughter and that poor skater kid Levi.
RUN Levi Run!
bj…no argument there that nobody NEEDS a gun to provide food. By the same token, nobody NEEDS a boat to have fun–does that give me the right to say all boat owners are “losers” simply because I do not like boats?
No, obviously, it does not. Many people enjoy competitive and recreational target shooting. It is a skill and a difficult one to master. People like to collect guns for their own enjoyment. There are vast differences in design, construction, utility, accuracy, etc. Does that make everyone of the millions of gun owners ‘losers’? No…it does not.
But, in your judgmental view, anyone who enjoys something you do not is a “loser”? Pretty sad way to live….
Heckler: Have you thought of the many brave soldiers who have fought to make their nations safe who hate the idea of the violence carrying a gun causes? Have you looked at the murder rates in America? Here’ a few apples to apples. Toronto and Chicago are about equal size. Chicago has about 7-800 murders a year, Toronto 50-70. Detroit and Montreal are about the same size, Detroit averages about 400 murders annually, Montreal about 15-20. Guess which society controls handguns strictly but has more long guns per capita household, and goes hunting more often? Why does having a gun relate to patriotism anyway? Does the word “inadequate” come to mind? Raptor: No we don’t ban cars because they are not designed to take a life. We do however regulate the hell out of their existence. I betcha the highway traffic laws are thicker, more enforced, and accepted than the gun laws. Guns do not kill but their avaiability causes the near occasion of killing much more readily that owing a car.
My comment was a bit broad but based on very vocal, gun waving nuts here. I’ll modify.
Actually, I already did.
Guns are tools, not objects of worship.
Those who DO worship guns and feel a need to constantly have one, might want to address the why in that.
I have two guns but I have yet to see how any sane person can see them as fetish objects. Maybe I’m just not lacking in some aspect of my life like the gun worshipers.
In other news the votes are in in Oregon and the Senate Democratic majority will go up to 57 with the election of Jeff Merkley.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE4A49VJ20081106
Unfortunately in Minnesota Al Franken lost by 571 votes, but Minnesota law requires a recount when the election count is that close.
Paul Volcker might get the treasury appt., don’t recall too much about Volcker’s views. Does anyone else?
Phantom,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Volcker
sursum
First of all comparing crime in the U.S. to crime in Canada is not always valid. The cultures of the people are totally different.
Look at all of the large cities in the U.S. who have high murder rates. You will notice that they all have very strict gun laws if not outright bans.
Look at what happened to crime in Great Brittain after they banned handguns. It skyrocketed. They now have a higher murder rate than they’ve ever had in modern times.
Look at murder rates in D.C.(where guns were essentially banned) and across the river in Virginia where guns are readily available.
“Why does having a gun relate to patriotism anyway?”
I did’nt mention patriotism. Only respect for the Constitution. Why did you bring it up?
As far as inadequacy goes, if I ever have to face multiple armed criminals I AM inadequate. I choose to level the playing field a little.
The culture between the U.S. and Canada really isn’t different. Canadians are a lot more liberal than Americans which accounts for the lower crime rate and lower poverty rate. But as for culture if you walk into any Canadian town it’s indistinguishable from an American town (except the streets may be cleaner).
Putin may return to Kremlin in ‘09
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev could resign from his post in 2009 to pave the way for Vladimir Putin to return to the Kremlin, Vedomosti newspaper reported on Thursday, citing an unidentified source close to the Kremlin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081106/wl_nm/us_russia_medvedev_putin
BlueJay, here is how Obama treats his workers.
Obama campaign workers angry over unpaid wages
Indianapolis – Lines were long and tempers flared Wednesday not to vote but to get paid for canvassing for Barack Obama. Several hundred people are still waiting to get their pay for last-minute campaigning. Police were called to the Obama campaign office on North Meridian Street downtown to control the crowd.
The line was long and the crowd was angry at times.
“I want my money today! It’s my money. I want it right now!” yelled one former campaign worker.
http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=9299280
Will Obama look into Pooty’s (hee hee that’s what I call him) and see a soulmate like GW did?
sorry. Look into Pooty’s eyes…
Obama will offer Sarah Palin as a human sacrifice to Putin. That will appease Putin and the world will applaud that Sarah Palin was put to good use.
I think Putin sees Obama as weak and will use this time to expand Russia’s territory and control. Doesn’t sound like rainbow farting unicorns to me…
Heckler” Some time ago I checked into that line put out by the gun lobby regarding murders rising in the UK after the gun law were tightened. The aftermath tighteneing sequence was, those killed by terrorists arising from the subway bombings, and a string of occurances were illegal immigrants were left to die in the “cold” vans in which they were being smuggled or otherwise abandonded over a series of weeks, were rightfully described as murders by the police and included into the stats. accordingly. The “blip” the NRA loves to quote flattened out rather quickly. It is the availabilty of guns that hikes kill rates, not any amount of anti/pro gun laws on the books. In an argument, not having a gun might lead to a trip to the hospital with a broken nose, having a gun more readily leads to a trip to the morgue. “Tell that to the men who died etc.”, sounded like a patriotic line to me.
Obama makes headlines throughout the world.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/5/04621/2283/311/653622
Bush made the cover in Germany, not a very flattering photo.
Chavez takes over biggest gold mine in Venezuela
“This mine will be seized and managed by a state administration,” Sanz said in a statement.
The Cristinas mine, located in southeastern Bolivar state, is estimated to hold 16.9 million ounces of gold, in proven and potential reserves of the precious metal, according to Crystallex data.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081105220533.9xxyupf3&show_article=1
The dots are slowly being connected to reveal the big picture.
The depths of Sarah Palin’s ignorance knows no bounds. Not only did she think Montreal was in France but apparently she thought Africa was a country, not a continent.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5095495.ece
All I have to say is I hope she runs for Prez in 2012.
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 7:34 am | Permalink
AS gun is a tool, not an object of worship.
That is unless one NEEDS that tool to protect greed.
Almost no one depends on guns to provide food these days.
—————————————————-
20,000,000 hunters in the US would probably disagree with you.
Some of us still enjoy the idea of providing for ourselves vs. waiting on the Government cheese.
I read that article, Heckler. As a business owner one thing stood out. . .Obama isn’t withholding payroll taxes when paying his workers.
They don’t seem to meet all the requirements for ‘contract labor’. It would be interesting to see if they send out 1099s. Want to bet they don’t?
quoting daily kos again? That is as reliable a source as quoting rush. they are both recognized as being unreliably slanted.
Raptor, are you claiming that all those newspaper covers were photoshopped?
sursum
I’d be interested in seeing the source of your stats. One thing to keep in mind, Great Brittain has a bad habit of only reporting murders as murders when someone is actually convicted of murder. And they don’t report “manslaughter” convictions as murder either.
“It is the availabilty of guns that hikes kill rates”
Are you really serious about that one? Go back to the D.C. versus Virginia immediatly across the river example. You ever hear of a murder taking place at a gun show?
‘ it is the availability of CRIMINALS that hikes kill rates’
There, I fixed it for you.
Sick enough that a 13 year old was forced into marriage but God’s law dictates that if she is gang raped when she is married then the punishment is a public stoning (it’s in the Old Testament Christians (Lev 20:10), it’s not like you get off scot free because it’s a Muslim country). So she is dragged to an arena where a thousand people attend to watch the spectacle.
Yet I’m told I should respect their religious views. Yeah, that’ll be the day.”
**************************************
Yeah, nice try at taking a shot at Christians, and the old testament. Unfortunately for you, it was done under Islamic law. Your point, and your example, is moot. But go ahead.
“Yeah, nice try at taking a shot at Christians, and the old testament. Unfortunately for you, it was done under Islamic law. Your point, and your example, is moot. But go ahead.”
Christians still support the Old Testament. If you haven’t heard they still seem to be obsessed with gays, the 10 Commandments and creationism. Are you telling me you are just one of those pick and choose Christians despite Jesus saying not one tittle of the law shall pass?
“If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.”
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Christian values.
Hey sursum,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
This article doesn’t mention immigrants in vans.
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 6:54 am | Permalink
“…you hate the very founding principles of this nation.”
You better believe it.
Lots of brave lies about freedom and justice but they only applied to rich white men.
***********************************
Since you hate the foundations of this country, you hate it now, you do not care if terrorist attack this country (because they won;t be after you), you hate most nearly everyone who is not a progressive liberal, I would suggest that this country is unhealthy for you. Hate breeds illness. Perhaps you could find someowhere far more uplifting. Please feel free to stay, but just know that hate is damaging to both yoiu mental and physical health.
Okay, sure Maggotpunk–
spit and spin, I really don;t care. But it was a nice deflection trying to link an act committed in somalia, by islamists, to christians. So go ahead, the shark is calling.
One of the Pharisees tested Jesus with a question, “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” (Matthew 22:36 NIV). Jesus replied, ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV).
Littlejohn, I know you don’t know much about Christianity, it’s clear you don’t know much about Islam either. They both use the Old Testament and base their laws upon God’s laws in the Old Testament. I’ve quoted them for you. It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just. If you don’t like your religion then reject it and embrace the rational view of Atheism or pick some more reasonable religion.
Kia, did women count as neighbors since the Bible holds them to be nothing more than property like cattle (for Littlejohn, it’s your 10th Commandment).
mp….I am not claiming anything abotu the pictures..just stating a fact that daily kos is not the most credible source available. If you are going to continue to quote that, then you should be a little more tolerant of people who quote rush. Both slant reporting to fit their views, both are extremists and not known for their “fair and impartial” reporting.
Maggot, there also is a rule in the Old Test. about denying God….What’s your address.
Raptor, the DailyKos simply presented pictures of headlines. If that is not a credible story then present your evidence. So far your insistence that DailyKos isn’t credible is falling on deaf ears.
“Maggot, there also is a rule in the Old Test. about denying God….What’s your address.”
Is that a death threat Anti?
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
Now very early in the morning, he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him. He sat down, and taught them.
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman taken in adultery. Having set her in the midst,
they told him, “Teacher, we found this woman in adultery, in the very act. Now in our law, Moses commanded us to stone such.
What then do you say about her?”
They said this testing him, that they might have something to accuse him of. But Jesus stooped down, and wrote on the ground with his finger.
But when they continued asking him, he looked up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her.”
Again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. They, when they heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest, even to the last.
Jesus was left alone with the woman where she was, in the middle. Jesus, standing up, saw her and said, “Woman, where are your accusers? Did no one condemn you?”
She said, “No one, Lord.” Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more.”
Kia, that story was created in the 15th century.
Is that a death threat Anti?
———-
Nope. It just surprises me that you are still living with the abundance of “fundies” committing mass atrocities all around us. You must live in daily fear for your life. Ah, the madness of it all!!!!
Regular, are you still kickin’ honcho?
Most fundies are controlled by the secular laws of the state. Should those laws be abolished and a theocracy established then there is no doubt many of them would feel glee is committing atrocities. When the murder of Blacks was legalized in the South it’s not like they held back.
Ephesians 5:25-30 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church – for we are members of his body.”
Maggot, you are a complete nut…a peanut…
Ephesians 5:25-30, simple translation, maintain your property well. Kia, your religion views women as property. They may be sold into slavery, if they are raped they are to be executed (or else marry their rapist in some circumstances), a marriage is an exchange of property (dowry for the woman’s family, ownership for the man). It’s a sick religion you have and no wonder, when the values are maintained, a 13 year old girl is stoned to death for being raped.
Maggotpunk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 8:51 am | Permalink
Littlejohn, I know you don’t know much about Christianity, it’s clear you don’t know much about Islam either. They both use the Old Testament and base their laws upon God’s laws in the Old Testament. I’ve quoted them for you. It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
Maggot,
Please disprove your ignorance by posting links to:
1) Any rape victims being stoned to death in America.
2) Any Christians in America stoning anyone to death in the last …. lets say 100 years.
3) A link to a blog post that proves LJ supports the following:
It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
I want my money today! It’s my money. I want it right now!”
Sounds like some obama folk are preparing for Jan 21.
Except you should remove the It’s my money. Since most of the folks who will be getting money from obama don’t pay federal taxes.
“Please disprove your ignorance by posting links to:”
I never made such claims so I don’t need to support claims I never made. The only claim I made is the last one. If a person believes in God as the moral authority and God’s law includes, as mentioned in the Bible, executing victims of rape, then they accept God’s law or else they really don’t believe God is a moral authority. It’s a problem the believers have, not me.
You are referring to Leviticus. Again Old Testament. But men are also sold as property as well. There was slavery and their remains slavery in the world today. Does not make it right.
Jesus Came To Fulfil
In Matthew 5:17, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” To show a new way to live.
It is interesting that in your hatred of God, His Word and Christians you fulfill biblical prophecy.
Chew on that for a while.
I was joking three years ago when my nephew graduated high school. I told him that that was the stupidest thing to do. He should have just knocked up some 16 year old and quit high school.
Unfortunatly NOW I see it is true, he is now in college with the ROTC. I just don’t understand WHY he is trying to improve himself or become successful when it will just be taken away from him. Poor bastard also has to be in the military under obama.
Perhaps you should follow through on quoting. Here’s the rest:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
How cute that you pick and choose without including the context. Was it your intent to be dishonest or just convince me that you don’t know what you are talking about?
Maggot, I bet you really despise Chas. After all he promotes and organizes meetings for this terrible religion. Why have you not denounced the great Chas?
Why should I do what you want Anti?
Do you just pick and choose your outrage, maggot?
How does your finishing the sentence so to speak radicate the point?
It doesn’t.
I’m just impressed that you have no problem with a 13 year old being stoned to death for being gang raped. Nothing but excuses from the bible thumpers. I guess I need some Christian morals in order to be so aloof.
God commands rape:
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
But from what I’m hearing the god of the OT is a false god.
Obviously stoning a 13 year old girl is wrong. Why do you think it otherwise, Maggot?
God commands rape:
———–
When did God write that?
Clearly Anti you have a reading comprehension problem as I’m the one who initiated the complaint. The response from the religious has been consistent, that their religious brethren are not to blame because that’s the old laws from the infallible, moral, all-knowing god.
Voltaire sums up the problem nicely, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
And you all hold onto your absurdities so the day you believe you hear your god’s voice you’ll drown your kids in the bathtub and blame it on a Black guy.
Maggot,
I outlined your ignorance. I guess you just made it clear you can not refute your ignorance. Unless you want to give it a go…
Maggot,
Please disprove your ignorance by posting links to:
1) Any rape victims being stoned to death in America.
2) Any Christians in America stoning anyone to death in the last …. lets say 100 years.
3) A link to a blog post that proves LJ supports the following:
It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
“When did God write that?”
It’s in your Bible. Have you ever read the scripture that you believe in? Of course not, if you did then you wouldn’t be a believer.
Sol, I don’t need to respond to a strawman argument. If you want to look uneducated and absurd then continue to do so.
Maggotpunk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 9:43 am | Permalink
“When did God write that?”
It’s in your Bible. Have you ever read the scripture that you believe in? Of course not, if you did then you wouldn’t be a believer.
—–
I have read it and God didn’t write it, people did.
How is your fulfillment of biblical prophecy sitting with you?
What teachings of CHRIST do you believe the world would be better not following?
“I have read it and God didn’t write it, people did.”
Then you and I are in agreement, God is a fictional character that was merely a creation of imaginative people.
“What teachings of CHRIST do you believe the world would be better not following?”
His approval of slavery for one.
Then you and I are in agreement, God is a fictional character that was merely a creation of imaginative people.
———-
I don’t believe God is a fictional character, sorry. But please define My religion for me.
“I don’t believe God is a fictional character, sorry. But please define My religion for me.”
You just said he was a creation of people. If you can’t be consistent then there really isn’t much point in trying to reason with you. It must be difficult to reconcile something so absurd as religion with the reality of a godless existence.
You just said he was a creation of people.
——–
Really? Where did I say that?
Straw man? When you claim:
I know you don’t know much about Christianity
[snip]
They both use the Old Testament and base their laws upon God’s laws in the Old Testament. I’ve quoted them for you. It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just..
So you imply that all Christians support rape and the stoning to death of a rape victim. But you can’t face three little questions:
Maggot,
Please disprove your ignorance by posting links to:
1) Any rape victims being stoned to death in America.
2) Any Christians in America stoning anyone to death in the last …. lets say 100 years.
3) A link to a blog post that proves LJ supports the following:
It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
Enjoy your hatred and ignorance. And I see you’ve added racism. Trifecta maggot. You name does suit you.
Try to keep up with what you say, “I have read it and God didn’t write it, people did.” Are you that clueless or are you just dishonest?
Sol, logic isn’t your strong point is it?
Maggot, people did write the bible and people have edited and re-translated it many times. How does that deny the existence of God? What led you to believe God physically wrote the Bible?
Colossians 4:1: “Masters, give unto your servants (Slaves) that which is just and equal; knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.”
Yes Anti, I agree, your god is a work of fiction. Just because they put a leprechaun on the box of Lucky Charms doesn’t make it real.
Logic dictates that you still can’t answer the questions.
Sucks to be you; a hateful racist liar.
Have a nice day. God loves you.
Maggot, I see you choose not to answer the question. Just rely on your childish spinning.
I think we’re all on the same page with this one…a 13 yr old being stoned for getting raped is outrageous…but it IS because of religion that some justify this…more proof of how relgion is and has been one of the most cruel and destructive forces on Earth. Humans can use it as a weapon to justify atrocity.
Kia, do you simply pick and choose and leave out what you don’t want to see?
Not only does the verse you mention condone slavery but there are others. I’m supposing you aren’t aware of them.
Luke 12:47-48 (approval of beating slaves)
1 Timothy 6:1-2 (more approval of slavery)
Mary, a little tip about humans. They can use ANYTHING to justify horrible acts, it is not isolated to religion. Although religion has been bastardized many times.
“Logic dictates that you still can’t answer the questions.”
No, it’s a strawman argument unless you can state where I mentioned America is a Christian nation whose laws are based upon the Bible.
The Pyramids, proof slaves get sh*t done.
True enough Mary, but look at the facts; it is Muslims that still stone people to death and hold the sexes apart as unequal. Christianity has moved well past that. If you look at the charitable contributions of modern Christians vs. radical Muslims, what do you find?
To compare modern Christians to hard line Muslims is just ignorant.
Enter the maggot.
And no Maggot, I am not justifying slavery. I am just attempting to be as irrational as you.
“The Pyramids, proof slaves get sh*t done.”
Except for the fact that slaves didn’t build the pyramids.
http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids.html
Where did you derive the notion that slaves built the pyramids? Oh the Bible, that source of misinformation.
Anti…You’re right, religion is only one tool humans use to control and destroy their fellowman. But what I find so disheartening, religion seems to be used just as much today as it was a thousand years ago to justify hatred, intolerance, supression, genocide, and war.
“True enough Mary, but look at the facts; it is Muslims that still stone people to death and hold the sexes apart as unequal. Christianity has moved well past that. If you look at the charitable contributions of modern Christians vs. radical Muslims, what do you find?”
Because those cultures became more secular, not more religious. Unless you want to imply that your Jesus came back with a new revision to the rules. Then again, logic is your strong point, just like history, in other words, not at all.
Maggot my boy, you can’t even understand what you write yourself. You have implied that Christians live strictly by the Old Testament and support stoning rape victims. You state that LittleJohn directly supports that.
I have cut and pasted your own words to that effect. Go back and read it. I’ve posted it at least twice for you.
But do keep dodging the questions. Makes you look even more the fool you are.
Try to be honest Sol, I said if Christians want to be consistent they have to hold the Old Testament in the same way Jesus did (as I have quoted). It’s not my fault that you fail at reading comprehension. The fact that Christians can live as civilized people is because they disregard the teachings of the Bible.
Maggotpunk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:07 am | Permalink
“The Pyramids, proof slaves get sh*t done.”
Except for the fact that slaves didn’t build the pyramids.
=========
He he he…Maggot thought I was serious…
“To compare modern Christians to hard line Muslims is just ignorant.”
That’s not what I’m doing….but Christianity continues to be a weapon for those who justify their fear and hatred. I think most religions do, just in different in degrees. The extreme Islamic religion is totally out of control in my opinion.
You haven’t shown any verses that approve of slavery rather they refer to slaves (servants) and are used to teach how we should live as slaves were common in the time.
This was more do to economic issues as it was thru the 19th century.
your Jesus
As history has shown, Jesus was. Period. Whatever you make of His life is up to you. But you can’t refute that He was. That was a pretty dumb statement. But not unexpected considering.
your Jesus came back with a new revision to the rules.
Lock stock and barrel. You are completely clueless as per Christianity.
Thank you for clearing that up. Pointless to argue with someone who knows so little.
Right Kia, if I talk about the need to rape a woman it is no sign that I approve of rape. Just like how Jesus talks about the need to beat slaves and how they must obey their masters is no sign that he condones slavery.
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’ “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” (NIV, Luke 10:25-37 )
No Sol, try reading what I write. Your religion hasn’t changed but the Western culture has. It’s clear that you aren’t one much for rational thought. Next thing you’ll tell me is that you’re a Libertarian.
Mary,
Agreed. There are those that mask their actions behind religion. But to paint a modern Christian alongside a radical Muslim and claim they believe the same thing is ludicrous. Again, enter the maggot. Profoundly ignorant.
Sol, why is a Muslim who is more dogmatic in his faith any different than a Christian who is? “Radical” Muslims, as you like to call them, crashed some planes into a few buildings and the following days some “modern” Christians were announcing how America deserved the attack because we weren’t right with God. The comparisons are easily made and I see little difference. No surprise you want to label the crazies you are associated with as the more reasonable ones.
Again, enter the maggot. Profoundly ignorant.
======
Agreed.
Bush just taked about the transition…I’ll bet he’s relieved to be getting out of there and back to Texas..I know I’m relieved that he’s finally out of there.
One more time for you maggot. I can’t school you all day long. You’re going to have to put your big girl panties on and own up to your own words. Or just be and ignorant lying racist.
Maggotpunk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 8:51 am | Permalink
Littlejohn, I know you don’t know much about Christianity, it’s clear you don’t know much about Islam either. They both use the Old Testament and base their laws upon God’s laws in the Old Testament. I’ve quoted them for you. It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
Here, I’ll make the questions easier for you. Please provide evidence within the last 100 years (globally) of:
1) Any rape victims being stoned to death by Christians.
2) Any Christians stoning anyone to death.
3) A link to a blog post that proves LJ supports the following:
It’s your God and you are the one who finds his law for punishing rape victims with death as holy and just.
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:21 am | Permalink
Bush just taked about the transition…I’ll bet he’s relieved to be getting out of there and back to Texas..
================
Mary, I’ll bet most Presidents are relieved at the end of their term…It’s a tough job!
Mary,
I read a little about that yesterday. He has promised to help make the transition a smooth one. I hope he keeps his word. The CIA was double checking their stuff yesterday to ensure Obama is up to speed on everything he needs.
Obama is inheriting a mess. He has a lot of work ahead of him. I hope he makes the best decisions and surrounds himself with the best people.
Well Sol, I’ve apparently made you (and the other crazies of your ilk) look like a blubbering idiot but there’s no need for me to indulge your spamming any longer as I have better things to do.
Keep in mind your spiritual buddy Bush said he was told by God to initiate a war that would kill a million Iraqis. That’s who you hold as a “modern” Christian. He didn’t need to Bible to justify his atrocities, just the belief.
Don’t worry about Russsia expanding, Palin’s got her eyes on them, and Alaska is secure!
Good point Maggot…I remember some Christian fundamentalists also blaming the homosexuals for “God’s punishemnt” with all the hurricane damage.
It’s a tough job!
Take a look at the last three 2 term presidents. Look at pictures of them when they ran for their first term and when they completed their second. Wow. Talk about shaving years off your life !!!
This is funny, McCain and Obama spent over one billion dollars… to get a job that pays $400K…
Maggotpunk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink
Well Sol, I’ve apparently made you (and the other crazies of your ilk) look like a blubbering idiot but there’s no need for me to indulge your spamming any longer as I have better things to do.
—————-
HA HA! Self-absorbed delusional tard pretty much sums up the Maggot!
(apologises to actual mentally retarded folks)
Woneder if, since N.C. is too progressive for the Doles, if they will move backwoods to Ks. and Libby can run for Brownback’s seat?
Yeah, we don’t have to worry about the Russians OR the Canadians with Sarah on the job! LOL!
Don’t worry maggot. Just because you can’t answer three easy questions, we don’t think any less of you. How can you get lower than a maggot anyway.
Enjoy your ignorance, hate and racism.
God still loves you.
I am getting in late on the gun conversation. But, consider this: If guns kill people, it must be spoons that make Michael Moore fat! Ha!
Just try to refute that brilliant analogy!
Heckler: There are way more criminals who never need or use guns, or stick up anybody. They embezzle, take bribes, lie about product performance, buy laws to benfit their exclusive domain, and love to tell you it’s your patriotic duty or right to buy their product. There is no shortage of criminals who don’t need guns to get their ends met. Nope, I don’t imagine there are may death at guns shows for the same reason there are few traffic acidents at Auto shows or drownings at Boat shows. Many countries expect their citizens to defend the homeland, by going to the armouries and get their militia issued weapons. I remember seeing pictures of elderly Brits. carrying longguns (.303 WW1
Enfields & shotguns) just waiting for some Kraut partrooper to land in their fields while at the same time the cops there, and British Empire did not carry guns. As to murder vs. convictons or for manslaughter, maybe they plea bargain there as well, but arent’ we grasping at straws here? As to another poster. I can’t now recall where I saw the coupling of smuggling deaths and the terrorists subway bombing, but in both cases dozens and dozens died. The Brit police broke up a smugging ring of Chinese origin that put folks in sealed vans in Holland and therein was the cause for death for they were abandonded for fear of getting caught in a crackdown. It was the smuggling thing that surprised me, for I figured in the subway deaths anyway.
Sol…They did the numbers on being president and aging ..they figured that if Mccain won, he’d be equal to 109 when he left office. I guess we’ll all watch Obama’s hair go white during his term. I agree, who the heck wold want the job and why?
StevenEDavis
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink
I am getting in late on the gun conversation. But, consider this: If guns kill people, it must be spoons that make Michael Moore fat! Ha!
============
LOL!
If guns kill people, matches are arsonist.
“Heckler
Posted November 6, 2008 at 6:22 am | Permalink
I’m gonna start a pool on when the new Congress will see first action on the next round of gun banning proposals. I need to iron out the specifics of how to determine the winner.
I’m thinking that the most logical indicator would be an official action in commitee of either house. But that would leave out anything that got shoved into another bill during floor action.
I’m open to suggestions.”
Suggestion: Define just what you mean by “gun banning”. Do any sort of restrictions at all count as “banning”? Requiring background checks? Not allowing bazookas or RPGs?
Obama’s hair go white
Might just be the few photo’s I’ve seen since he won, but is he getting a little gray on the sides already?
109 years old? Yeah, we would have seen President Palin for sure. :~D
See??? See??? I told you. Ben already wants to take away my RPGs !!!!
Fear the Government that fears your guns.
Pretty simple.
I think Obama has bigger problems than the gun rights issue…he is already on record saying he has no intention of trying to change the 2nd amendment.
In an Obama interview:
“You said recently, “I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.” But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you’ve said that it’s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.”
Sounds reasonable.
You know what amazes me most on this blog is the daily need by some on here to put Christianity down. It is the personal belief system of many. Period. Anyone who trys to say that Christians are like radical muslims is delusional. They should ask themselves why their own survival seems to be predicated on tearing down something others view as sacred.
What ever happened to ‘live and let live’. Maggots need to daily pronounce the bible as false is clouded by his posting of one article that he feels disproves the bible. Maggot is this what you would do if looking to prove or disprove other sources. Of course not. Your hatred has overshadowed your good sense.
Mary you seem to be intelligent but you let your hatred for all Christian completely blind you to the good done everyday by people of the Christian faith. Doctors without Borders, the many hospitals built in third world countries, orphanages built to bring in children from the streets some as young as 3 years old, the Christians who have given their lifes to try to improve the lifes of others. This happens daily in this world we live in because of programs based in our Christian churches. People right here in Wichtia that give money and time to help the less fortunate among us. Catholic Charities, His Helping Hands, The Lords Diner, and many others. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this. Why do you insist to hanging onto your hatred which only harms the vessel it is carried in.
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:42 am | Permalink
I think Obama has bigger problems than the gun rights issue…he is already on record saying he has no intention of trying to change the 2nd amendment.
In an Obama interview:
“You said recently, “I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.” But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you’ve said that it’s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.”
Sounds reasonable.
————————————————–
It would sound like he is talking about full registration of gun ownership. On the surface not a bad thing. But look at historical reference to the same.
We can’t keep illegal drugs off our streets. How do we expect to stop illegal gun trade?
I’m not saying we shouldn’t try. But if we make legal means more restrictive, we are less safe.
Isn’t killing people already illegal?
And armed robbery?
I’d like to see the stats on gun crime committed using legal weapons vs. illegal weapons.
Anyone heard from Regular? I thought he used the KSGolfNut nic.
But really, has anyone heard from/about him?
OBAMA CALLS FOR A COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFF!
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=AkakcDagA6U9wl6zXYYhm9kcvrYF?slug=dw-obamabcs110508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
“Considering that this year Barack Obama defeated two of the great political brands in America – the Clintons and John McCain – won at least 349 electoral votes and, of course, shattered a racial barrier few thought possible, perhaps he doesn’t need any advice.
Still, Mr. President, why the heck didn’t you mention your support of a college football playoff sooner?
“I think it is about time that we had playoffs in college football,” Obama said Monday on ESPN. “I’m fed up with these computer rankings and this and that and the other. Get eight teams – the top eight teams right at the end. You got a playoff. Decide on a national champion.””
“okobserver” whines –
“What ever happened to ‘live and let live’?”
Hmm. Lemme see…
Shelly Shannon happened.
Eric Rudolph happened.
Randy Maske happened.
James Kopp happened.
Michael Griffen happened.
Paul Hill happened.
Jeffrey Fitzhenry happened.
Brenda Kaye Phillips happened.
Proposition 8 happened.
Maybe that’s what happened, “okobserver.”
Just to name a few.
Can someone give me a link on how to contact Tom, The Gay/Lesbian equal rights lobbyist guy? I need some information he gave me once about a REpublican group. THanks
Monkeyhawk as usual your classless use of extremes who I’m not even sure are Christians makes you toothless in your argument. Names the extremist on the left and compare them to the right. They are there.
No refuting the points I made just your usual hatred. I have more important things to do today. Hate on.
lj,
http://www.kansasequalitycoalition.org/viewuser.php?u=7
Rage-
Thanks
okob – both your post and MH’s post highlight a problem. We have a lot of people who CLAIM to be ’super-Christians’ or ’super-Muslims’ or whatever. They commit terrorist acts like those listed by MH and tar the image of other Christians, Muslims, etc.
Then you come along and complain about people “to put Christianity down”. I submit that what many of us are trying to do is not to put my wife’s religion (Catholic Christian) down but rather to put down those extremist nutcases.
I will definitely ‘put down’ the extremists – ALL of them. And I try not to equate thme with the much larger followership of the religions they claim to represent. Thus my use of the suffix IST – i.e. IslamIST, ChristIST, HindIST, etc.
I will definitely ‘put down’ the extremists – ALL of them.
Indeed, Ben.
Granny, I think you will find even the harshest philosophical critics of Christianity (like, say, Maggotpunk) believe that Christian citizens deserve equal rights under the law.
The issue, more properly framed, is religious supremicism.
THE GOLDEN RULE
In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets. Christian, Jesus, Matthew 7:12
One word which sums up the basis of all good conduct….loving-kindness. Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself. Confucius,
This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Hinduism Mahabharata 5:1517
Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself. – Islam The Prophet Muhammad,
One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated. Jainism, Mahavira, Sutrakritanga
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it. Judaism ,Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
I am a stranger to no one; and no one is a stranger to me. Indeed, I am a friend to all. Sikhism Guru Granth Sahib, pg. 1299
Regard your neighbour’s gain as your own gain and your neighbour’s loss as your own loss. Taoism, Lao Tzu, T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien,
We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. Unitarian principle
Do not do unto others whatever is injurious to yourself. Zoroastrianism, Shayast-na-Shayast 13.29
We are as much alive as we keep the earth alive. Native Spirituality Chief Dan George
Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wish to be laid upon you, and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself. Baha’i Faith, Baha’u'llah, Gleanings
Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. Buddhism , The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.1
“The issue, more properly framed, is religious supremicism.”
——
Add to that hypocricy. Doesn’t Maggotpunk ask why believe only the parts you agree with? Aren’t his posts usually an attempt to show the complete and often ignored words in the same book?
Although GMC and I disagree (although usually agreeably) often, he once gave an excellent piece of advice on this subejct. I wish I could repeat his words, as he said them well. I’ll only paraphrase (badly!) that his advice was that this blog isn’t a place where something as personal and as important as religion is best discussed.
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 6, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink
Anti…You’re right, religion is only one tool humans use to control and destroy their fellowman. But what I find so disheartening, religion seems to be used just as much today as it was a thousand years ago to justify hatred, intolerance, supression, genocide, and war.
———————-
Ben I won’t argue my Christianity with you or Rage. That is my own personal decision. After reading what Mary said I will say that many here feel the need to destroy the Christian religion. They turn a blind eye to the good done by ‘these extremists’ ‘ fundamentalists’. Your attempt to justify the attacks doesn’t seem to be well thought out. But oh well life does go on and we have many more real problems to solve.
Rage sorry the voters of CA and other states disappointed you. They are rioting in the streets in SF to overturn the will of the people. I doubt if all of those voters were Christians. I can’t say that for certain though.
“many here feel the need to destroy the Christian religion.”
And I will fight against them. I defy you to show where I have supported destroying Christianity. I defy you to show where I have wanted to outlaw Midnight Christmas Mass. (I better not – I would get arrested since I routinely attend it)
Linda on that you, GMC and I agree. I will say on the comment about Maggot. He quotes the old testament constantly as the basis for the Christian religion. It is viewed as a history book but the laws written there are not the laws followed by Christians today as was stated upthread.
Nuff said.
Ben I wasn’t talking to you personally because you are right I couldn’t do that. I was just talking about the frequent attacks on the blog by others.
Sorry if I sounded as if I was accusing you.
My wife and I disagree on the death penalty. She adheres to Catholic teachings against it. I view it as a reflection of someone’s ‘right to life’ having been forfeited.
Does that mean that I want her religion destroyed? I think not.
“20,000,000 hunters in the US would probably disagree with you.
Some of us still enjoy the idea of providing for ourselves vs. waiting on the Government cheese.”
Hunting as a means of sustenance is a HUGE economic waste. And have you not considered that in feeding off the public land, you yourself are eating someone else’s share of the environment?
When the animals can shoot back, hunting will be a sport.
BlueJay,
If guns are for losers, why do you own one?
Until I read John Grishams book on death row in Oklahoma I believed as you do. I didn’t view it as a faith based belief. I couldn’t sit on a jury now and say I would impose the death penalty even if it was someone like the Carr brothers or Dennis Rader. My own hangup.
Mary
“And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets”
Nothing wrong, other than the fact that he advocates over riding the constitution whenever it suits him. If it were anything but guns you’d be screaming Mary!!
What would you have me believe Mary, Obama’s STATED position since he started running for President or his ACTIONS prior to that. He has a record of calling for the ban of all handguns. He has a record of supporting a national ban on concealed carry?
Set your feelings about guns aside for a moment. Should I believe a mans ACTIONS?
Or should I belive a politicians WORDS while running for office?
“Demonstrators held candles and carried signs that read “We All Deserve the Freedom to Marry” as part of the event, sponsored by groups opposed to Proposition 8.
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom expressed frustration with the ban, but said he is hopeful it will be overturned in court.
Meg Waters, part of the Yes on 8 campaign team, told City News Service, “gay and lesbian couples have exactly the same protections under the law with civil unions.”
“Marriage has been defined as a man and woman since time began,” Waters said. “The people of California have voted twice, so I think the best thing to do is for everybody involved to figure out a way to move forward.” Foxnews
Twice the majority have voted. Will four activist judges overthrow the millions once again?
Just as the national election of Bush was decided by the courts – the same danger exists today at all levels of our judicial system. Locally, a judge in Kansas decides we aren’t spending enough on education.
Before you decide on this one, just remember the pendulum always swings back.
Please see my modified statement Nathan.
“Those who DO worship guns and feel a need to constantly have one, might want to address the why in that.”
The problem is not religion. The problem is that there are people in this world who are basically evil. They prey on weak people and have no regard for the sanctity of life in the pursuit of more power.
Anything can and will be used to jusitify their pursuit of power or evil ways.
As long as you ignore this and blame religion you will never be able to address the real problem.
The people who use religion have you fooled. While you are blaming religion they will simply use some other means to justify their evil ways and to support their gain for more power.
BJ if you have seen the damage this year alone caused by the overpopulation of the deer herds you would realized that hunting is a necessary evil. When the herds aren’t thinned it isn’t good for the animals. Look at what has happened to the goose population. We need open season on these critters. We do own guns but I have stayed out of the debates. My husband used to hunt and we always ate what he killed. This isn’t a bad thing.
BlueJay,
There are not very many people who worship guns. I don’t think I have known or heard of anyone that does either.
Someone asked about banning guns?
Assault Weapons Ban.
It bans about 20 weapons by name, many more weapons which have certain characteristics, and the amount of ammo magazines can hold for weapons.
Several Democrats tried to pass it again 2 years ago when they came to power.
The problem is that I don’t think Obama will be pusing for any specific gun control, but that he will definately sign any that comes across his desk from the Democrats.
Now that they are in power and have even more votes there is no telling how much more gun control they will try to pass.
“BJ if you have seen the damage this year alone caused by the overpopulation of the deer herds you would realized that hunting is a necessary evil.”
Necessary ONLY because human action effectively eliminated the predators on the deer.
Hunting is not for me. But I won’t belabor the argument since many hunters are good stewards of the environment.
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 11:50 am | Permalink
“20,000,000 hunters in the US would probably disagree with you.
Some of us still enjoy the idea of providing for ourselves vs. waiting on the Government cheese.”
Hunting as a means of sustenance is a HUGE economic waste. And have you not considered that in feeding off the public land, you yourself are eating someone else’s share of the environment?
————————————————–
I don’t hunt on public land.
Friends or family owned.
You’ll have to explain how you find it a huge economic waste.
Hunting for the sake of sport (not eating) is nothing more than killing in my opinion.
In just about every case wild game is healthier than meat you would buy at the market.
Wildlife management is also imperative to the survival of any species.
The simple fact is that whereever Democrats have control in the cities and in other places of government they pass more and more restricitve gun control.
Washington DC was probably one of the most extreme examples. However if you look at the large cities like Chicago, San Francisco, and others they have similar restrictive measures on private gun ownership.
To pretend like this is not an issue is either dishonest or ignorant.
The last time the Democrats had this type of control in the Government was before the Republicans took over in 1994.
That was when they were passing all sorts of gun control and the previous version of the Assault weapons ban.
So it will be interesting and scary to see what legislation they will try to pass now and how long it will take them to try.
“Meg Waters, part of the Yes on 8 campaign team, told City News Service, “gay and lesbian couples have exactly the same protections under the law with civil unions.””
That is not a true statement. However, if it were made fully true then it could be a foundation for a solution to this controversy. That is my preferred solution.
Do away with ‘Caeser’s marriage’ altogether. Replace it with ‘union’ for ALL couples – gay or straight. Leave the Sacraments of the Church to the Church. That would make the entire issue moot.
I will stand with Kia and others on the pro-hunting side … IF …
The key here IMO is proper game management. In many areas deer and other game animals are actually prone to over-population. So, the herds NEED to be culled. Let KsDWP and similar agencies issue appropriate numbers of tags to keep the populations in balance. In fact, improve habitat and we can have even MORE deer etc.
Some time back I read that feral pigs were a problem at Fort Riley and they were PAYING people to deal with them. Seems to me that they can get that done for free … hunting season.
If you thought the Palin bashing would end election day, you would be wrong. The woman just provides too much good material.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581
Thirteen percent of all accidents in Kansas in 2004 involved striking a deer. One such crash that year involved two cars and left four people dead. Here’s a study by the Kansas Highway Patrol.
This comes up because of today’s news from Kansas City police:
The woman who was involved in a serious accident at about 1:10 pm Sunday at Front Street and I-435, has died.
Rashida T. Barber, white/female, 10/15/1975, was driving southbound on I-435 when her 1994 Lexus struck a deer.
The deer came through the windshield into the vehicle. Ms. Barber lost control of the vehicle and struck the cement barrier on I-435. She was transported to an area hospital for treatment of her injuries.
The police were notified that Ms. Barber died on April 20th at about 440 pm. Ms. Barber was a Kansas City, North resident. No other vehicles were involved in the accident.
Four children were in the car with her at the time of the accident (ages 11, 10, 6, and 3). The children were all treated and released at an area hospital on the day of the accident.
OVERLAND PARK, Kan. — There has been an increase in vehicles colliding with deer, according to Overland Park police.
In 2007, there were 63 accidents, up from 43 in 2004. However, it is believed that many car-deer accidents are not reported, police said.
See the Kansas statistics on increasing car deer collisions:
http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/files/deer_accidents_in_kansas_19842004.pdf
“I don’t hunt on public land.”
As regards the environment and wildlife, ALL land is public land. Who owns a pheasant?
I have said I did not wish to belabor the point. And if you eat what you shoot, I don’t really have an issue with it.
“You’ll have to explain how you find it a huge economic waste.”
I fish. I used to anyway.
The investment in license and tackle would buy me marked down salmon, catfish, etc. at the Dillons for a year.
“In just about every case wild game is healthier than meat you would buy at the market.”
That is more an issue of Republican deregulation of our food supply. There are easier fixes for that than hunting one’s own food.
Re: Slavery & New Testament
Read the Letter to Philemon. Paul could have easily taken a stance against slavery — But instead, he tells the runaway slave to return to his Master, and make amends.
IIRC, some used that story as a justification for the Dredd Scott decision.
It is just SO out of place in our society.
Anyone heard from Regular?
******
He’s probably taking a week or two off and coming back with a new identity.
He’ll be black or Arab or something this time . . .
BlueJay – a straight economic analysis falls short. If a person finds it relaxing and enjoyable that has its own value.
I often make a fire in the fireplace or stove. Is that economically feasible? Not if you count my time – that’s for sure. But the boys love it.
Hunting for many is not just about killing for food.
It is about the sport, the fun, the experience. It is tradition.
Many men take pride in knowing that they can feed themselves if needed. In bonding with their son while out on a fishing trip.
My father and I used to fish all the time. We never kept anything unless we hooked it in the gills and it would die.
It was about going out and relxing on a nice day in the boat and enjoying ourselves.
I plan on starting to bird hunt next year. Not because I need to kill birds so I can eat. It is because I enjoy the sport. I want to do something with my friends that we enjoy.
Regardless, the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting.
The 2nd Amendment is about individuals having a right to protect themselves from both the government and others that would do them harm.
Ben in actual fact what she said is true. Every man is allowed to marry the woman of his choice and so is every woman allowed to marry the man of her choice. This isn’t different for gays and/or straight people.
The whole argument comes down to changing the definition of marriage. Those who decry established religion want to be recognized by these same religions as a ‘married couple’.
In fact the only thing denied to gay civil unions is the right of the same sex partner to collect SS benefits. All other rights can and should be determined by legal means. My husband and I both have wills and documents assigning the other as our medical spokesperson and financial decision maker if we are unable to do the job.
Likewise we have papers drawn up which will determine where our assets will go in the event of our deaths. This is just good management. Wills can be written for as little as $100 now with all of the resources available. Other legal documents are free at hospitals and other sources. The important thing to to have witnesses and have it notarized.
So then the issue comes down to why do gays/lesbians want to change the definition of marriage? The SS issue will become moot in a few years I think. Most people now work so their benefits would be assured by this. Survivor rights would be more important for children of these unions. I don’t have an answer right now for that.
You might be right to think that the answer is for government to get out of the sanctioning unions business. Until then it is scary that judges can overturn the results of one vote and there is rioting to make this happen again.
When will we decide that elections mean nothing? That judges are always the final authority.
I’d rather hunt with a camera.
It is less destructive and the catch lasts longer.
Slavery.
There are many forms of it, but the form we most commonly know is the chains and whips kind in colonial America forced upon African Americans.
The simple fact is that not all slavery was like this.
No where in the Bible will you find a condoning of this type of abusive slavery.
Our society has changed to view any type of slavery as wrong. That is fine. However, many years ago suring Biblical times that was not the case.
Trying to link the Bible to condoning the types of abusive slavery that several of you here do is intellectually dishonest.
Of course you know that. Your point is simply to try to take whatever verse you can and try to attack Christianity regardless of the truth.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_
Nation Finally Shiddy Enough To Make Social Progress
November 5, 2008 | Issue 44•45
WASHINGTON—After emerging victorious from one of the most pivotal elections in history, president-elect Barack Obama will assume the role of commander in chief on Jan. 20, shattering a racial barrier the United States is, at long last, shiddy enough to overcome.
Faced with losing everything, Americans took a long overdue step forward and elected Barack Obama.
Although polls going into the final weeks of October showed Sen. Obama in the lead, it remained unclear whether the failing economy, dilapidated housing market, crumbling national infrastructure, health care crisis, energy crisis, and five-year-long disastrous war in Iraq had made the nation crappy enough to rise above 300 years of racial prejudice and make lasting change.
MORE AT LINK
I’m “classless?!”
You have a strange moral code if you think shooting doctors and bombing clinics are class acts, “okobserver.”
You asked “Whatever happened to live and let live?” I merely proffered a few answers.
An interesting critique of the McCain/Palin cammpaign:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167561/page/1
It’s much easier to say that “slavery was different” in The Bible than to say “Paul was wrong.”
Actually, Paul was a product of his time and was wrong about a lot of things. Thanks to him, a lot of neo-Greek (Platonic) philosophy got mixed in with Christianity.
All the perverse emphasis on sex is Greek, not Christian, for instance.
StevenEDavis
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:16 pm | Permalink
If you thought the Palin bashing would end election day, you would be wrong. The woman just provides too much good material.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581
————————-
StevenD I canceled my subscription to Newsweek a couple of weeks ago because they were so blantantly prejudiced. I prefer my ‘news’ to show both sides. I have been reading about the attacks on Palin and am very disappointed in McCain for not putting a stop to this bull.
Palin has gone back to Alaska to lead her life. Why are we still trying to destroy her? What is the objective of the press here. Do they see her as a threat to something they hold near and dear? Have we turned into a nation that admires the new coverage of the National Enquirer type? Will we next see the news of Bristol not marrying Levi and marrying his best friend instead because the baby belongs to him.
When will this high tech lynching stop – to quote the justice Clarence Thomas.
MonkeyHawk,
I believe that less than 10 doctors have been killed or clinics bombed. (In regards to the pro-life movement which I am pretty sure you are talking about)
None are condoned by any major Christian group.
Actually, I don’t think I could find one Christian
group of any significant size that does condone or preach such violence.
Palin has gone back to Alaska to lead her life. Why are we still trying to destroy her?
You’re kidding right?
Being ignored or forgotten is the LAST thing lil’ Sarah wants.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:20 pm | Permalink
Anyone heard from Regular?
******
He’s probably taking a week or two off and coming back with a new identity.
He’ll be black or Arab or something this time . . .
*****
Regular was complaining of vision problems before he quit posting. I have been worried about him and wondered if I should go check on him.
It is possible though, that Regular and Max eloped… They both disappeared at about the same time. If they are lurking, maybe that accusation will cause them to re-appear.
“Nathaniel” –
Google the names and read up on them.
Paul Hill, for example, was a Presbyterian pastor.
You don’t get much more mainstream than the Presbyterians.
And if killing “only” 10 doctors is okay, I guess we have to figure in Shelly Shannon who simply wasn’t a very good shot.
MonkeyHawk,
So you condemn all Presbyterians for the actions of one?
There is no logic in that nor proof.
Monkeyhawk
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink
I’m “classless?!”
You have a strange moral code if you think shooting doctors and bombing clinics are class acts, “okobserver.”
——————
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
This is the law Christians today live by. Anyone can call himself a Christian just as anyone can call himself a monkey. But if you don’t live under this law you are a psuedo Christian, a wanna be, a false prophet. Just as you really aren’t a monkey because you don’t have the necessary attributes of a monkey.
In other words calling yourself a Christian doesn’t make you one. It is when you apply this law to your life and actions that give you entrance into this exclusive club.
I’m not sitting in judgement on any of these you mentioned. I am merely saying that their actions were not those of a Christian following the ‘law’ of Christ.
MonkeyHawk,
I don’t need to google any names or look them up because I have seen this same failed attempt at an argument from others before.
“In just about every case wild game is healthier than meat you would buy at the market.”
That is more an issue of Republican deregulation of our food supply. There are easier fixes for that than hunting one’s own food.
—————————————————-
Like China’s?
“okobserver
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:28 pm | Permalink
Ben in actual fact what she said is true. Every man is allowed to marry the woman of his choice and so is every woman allowed to marry the man of her choice. This isn’t different for gays and/or straight people.”
And in the old Jim Crow South blacks were allowed to marry blacks and whites were allowed to marry whites. Sorry okob, your arguement doesn’t cover it – the law still prohibits them from marrying the person they love.
“Those who decry established religion want to be recognized by these same religions as a ‘married couple’.”
NOT TRUE. They have never attempted to require churches to officaite the ceremonies. All they want is for ‘CAESER’ to give them the same recognition.
okobserver posted November 6, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Palin has gone back to Alaska to lead her life. Why are we still trying to destroy her?
————-
Yep, Sarah is really a sweet, frugal, highly responsible, conservative ‘Joan six-pack’ hockey mom that everyone should respect and admire. Ya betcha. . . wink, wink!
‘Strains Between McCain and Palin Aides Go Public’
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6196407&page=1
“The tension is likely to continue or get worse. Lawyers for the Republican National Committee are heading to Alaska to try to account for all the money that was spent on clothing, jewelry and luggage, according to The New York Times.
…
A Republican donor who agreed to foot a majority of the expenses was stunned when he received the bill, Newsweek reported. Both the Times and Newsweek report that the budget for the clothing was expected to be between $20,000 and $25,000. Instead, the amount reported by the Republican National Committee was $150,000.
That wasn’t the whole tab, however, according to Newsweek. The magazine claims that Palin leaned on some low-level staffers to put thousands of dollars of additional purchases on their credit cards.”
Ben I am not advocating that they not be allowed to marry. I am saying that if ‘marriage’ is the name that they want to apply to their union then it might be about something other than the right to be in a civil union.
I could apply your same argument to the right to a late term abortion. The life of a viable person can be taken at any time but many here would argue against that right. The law says it is ok. So it is legal.
In CA the people have spoken twice. They don’t want to change the definition of marriage. Are you going to tell the majority of voters there that they don’t have that right.
How about the bond issue here that only passed by 1600 votes. Should the losers riot in the streets until that vote is overturned. Do you get what I am trying to say? Why have elections at all?
Just let the judges decide everything. Would this be your choice?
The incomparable George Carlin –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61IE-SkAtug&feature=related
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:29 pm | Permalink
I’d rather hunt with a camera.
=============
Damn BlueJay, how many times do you have to hit them with the camera before they go down? That’s gotta be messy!
You know Cosmos in all of the garbage you just posted do you see one name attached to the attacks? Of course not. This is just like the attacks she has been under ever since McCain put her in the public square as his VP. I could list all of those ‘true stories’ that proved to be garbage but I don’t have all day to sit here typing.
When you have some substantive with names and sources named then get back to me. Until then this is National Enquirer reporting. Nothing else.
Anti you beat me to it. I was going to ask if it was a Canon Sure Shot?
Canon Sure Shot
—–
LOL
Blue Jay: Seemingly unbalance ratios in prey vs predator to-day originates with natural disaters to the predators. For instance wolves/coyotes are very inclined to some kinds of canaine virus that domesticated dogs handle with ease. I saw that on PBS last week, in a special about Yellowstone that followed the ups and downs of 2 packs of wolves over several seasons. Seems predatore while protecting their territory, do more relative damage to each other than the common prey at hand.
I am not in favor of judges deciding everything. However, when they struck down the Jim Crow laws to protect the rights of the minority I believe they did the right thing. And that is what I think they had done in CA. Remember, the decision did NOT require your church to recognize them; only the State. That is why I am a church-state separationist.
As for late term abortion (or any other for that matter) all I can do is to continue to financially support entities like Gerard House that provide alternatives.
Guess we’ll just have a civilized disagreement on this one. It will play itself out I am sure but I am never in favor of judges overthrowing elections even if it goes against what I would have liked.
Lunch date – gotta go.
okobserver posted November 6, 2008 at 1:05 pm
You know Cosmos in all of the garbage you just posted do you see one name attached to the attacks? Of course not. This is just like the attacks she has been under ever since McCain put her in the public square as his VP. I could list all of those ‘true stories’ that proved to be garbage but I don’t have all day to sit here typing.
When you have some substantive with names and sources named then get back to me. Until then this is National Enquirer reporting. Nothing else.
——————
okobserver, are you suggesting that the RNC filed an inaccurate Schedule F form?
‘Jeff Larson: Sarah Palin’s Personal Shopper Is Karl Rove’s Former Protégé‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/22/jeff-larson-sarah-palins_n_136957.html
“… Keep reading to see the Schedule F form that lists Larson as the purchaser of, among other things, $75,062.63 in clothes and accessories at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis.
-Or-
See a slideshow of Sarah Palin’s $150,000 style transformation.”
Cosmos, McCain/Palin lost.
Mr_Kia: “Fear the government….etc” . Mexican border officials are armed. American border officials are armed. Canadian border officials were not armed until this year, for they wanted nothing to do with guns. The new Conservative government apparently insisted, because of all the violence south of them…look it up in various press reports in the last 18 months, but I don’t know if the policy was ever implemented. Maybe some folks fear a government that demands guns. PS: The best people to handle wildlife conservation are the local hunt clubs.
Had to share this:
“I can’t help but experience Obama’s election as a gesture of recognition and acceptance — which is patently absurd, if you think about it. The labor of black people made this great nation possible. Black people planted and tended the tobacco, indigo and cotton on which America’s first great fortunes were built. Black people fought and died in every one of the nation’s wars. Black people fought and died to secure our fundamental rights under the Constitution. We don’t have to ask for anything from anybody.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/05/AR2008110503926.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
I watched HBO’s John Adams and according to that work, slaves actually physically built the WhiteHouse. Now an Africian-American is going to move in as Commander in Chief. It is pretty amazing if you think about it.
ANTI posted November 6, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Cosmos, McCain/Palin lost.
———–
And there are many good reasons that they lost.
Have a good lunch okob – ’swat’ the grandkids for me! :)
Steven on this you and I agree. The time had come. I just would rather it have been JC Watts or Michael Steele but I will welcome Obama and laud him as our duly elected prez.
Thanks Ben. When I looked out and saw the wind almost changed my mind.
Ben,
What does Soviet Troops being garrisoned in our country have to do with your thinking the attack on the Marines in Lebanon was a legitimate military attack or a terrorist action?
It is not a difficult question.
The only reason I can think of for you to keep dodging it is that you simply don’t have enough balls to say what you believe. That you believe it was not a terrorist attack and a legitimate attack on the Marines.
You will not deny or confirm that statement.
You are a coward.
Ben,
So anyone that is compassionate, forgives others, and gives to charity is a Christian then?
That is the standard?
Nathan,
I don’t think I have read why you thought the attack in Lebonon was a terrorist attack. Please explain.
I don’t know much about the details. The terrorists drove a truck into a Marine barracks where troops were sleeping and exploded a truck bomb. The surprise and suicide method of attack sound terroristic, but do you have different reasons for thinking it was?
Nathaniel,
You are very fortunate to live in a country that has a $500 BILLION military budget to buy uniforms, bombs, cruise missles, etc.
And, Nathan, do you think the Reagan’s immediate withdrawal of our troops from Lebanon after the barracks bombing might have encouraged terrorism?
Talked to my Dad about gay marriage last night. I think we came to a pretty good conclusion. My Dad is a rabid Obama supporter and also pro-life. He is against gay marriage, but supported domestic partnerships.
The only reason I have found to date to oppose gay marriage is religious. So, you take marriage out of government. The term is meaningless. You go solely by domestic partnerships. Man, man. Woman woman, Man, woman.
Let marriage reside with the churches. As far as the government goes, anyone with a registered domestic partnership gets treated as a couple. As far as the churches go, marry them or don’t. No big deal.
Problem solved. Why does the government define marriage in the first place?
“Nathaniel
Posted November 6, 2008 at 1:46 pm | Permalink
Ben,
So anyone that is compassionate, forgives others, and gives to charity is a Christian then?
That is the standard?”
NO. He might be a Jew. A Muslim. An atheist. A Hindu. etc
Go read my ‘Golden Rule’ post again.
“What does Soviet Troops being garrisoned in our country have to do with your thinking the attack on the Marines in Lebanon was a legitimate military attack or a terrorist action?”
Simple. They both refer to a foreign military occupying a country’s territory.
“It is not a difficult question.”
Correct – and you still haven’t answered it.
Is it legitimate for citizens of a country to attack an occupying military force? If the answer is YES then how do you differentiate between the movie Red Dawn and Lebanese citizens doing the same thing.
Sol – re: marriage/union: AGREED. That was my point above.
Outstanding. Three on board.
Steven,
I appreciate your willingness to discuss this.
However, I think it is important that we establish our positions on the issue before we get into the details of why.
I believe that the attack on the Marine Barracks in Lebanon was a terrorist act.
Now where do you stand?
Once we have established this, then we can move forward in the discussion. Otherwise it seems as if you are simply wanting me to argue my stance just because.
Ben,
Where do you stand?
It really isn’t that hard of a question and the fact that both of you refuse to answer it makes one wonder if you are ashamed of your opinion or know that it is not going to be very popular.
So, do either of you think that bombing was a terrorist act or not?
Simple question. I have given you my answer. Once you both give me yours then we can start discussing the why.
You both would rather jump right to why I believe what I do instead of giving me your stance.
Outlander writes:
In other words calling yourself a Christian doesn’t make you one. It is when you apply this law to your life and actions that give you entrance into this exclusive club.
*****
Like when Jesus told the Jewish man who had obeyed all the commandments to “sell all you have and follow me.”
Is that what you did, Outlander.
Sell all you have and give it to the church.
No?
Sorry, you’re not a Christian.
Also, you’ll have to stop calling yourself one.
Dear CapnGoofball:
It is understood that you regularly misrepresent, tell dishonest half-truths etc… but do you have to just make up quotes?
Ben,
The Marines in Lebanon were not an invading army. We were not there to occupy them or take them over.
We were part of a muli-national peace keeping force made up of Italian and French troops as well.
The Soviets in the movie Red Dawn were invading America. They were part of a group of nations trying to take over America.
Two completely different situations.
Now, care to answer the question?
Or are you going to keep avoiding it?
Cap I know this is simplictic but the answer is that for that man at that time this was the answer. He had allowed his possesions to undermine his ability to follow the law previously given. That was not given as a directive for all followers to be a Christian.
My how you can spin!
Sol, regarding the marriage/union thing, I agree (and have so posted multiple times in the past).
Why does government define “marriage”? A very good question. A not-so-good and not-so-complete answer: government must define marriage in order to give weight and viability to laws governing the descent of property on death, e.g. There was a need for such laws (which arose from the common law and later statutes of England, primarily) in the United States, after its founding, to deal with these problems. So, it would seem that if the laws (now including the Social Security laws, etc.) no loger referred to “surviving spouse” or “married” and instead referred to partners in a “civil union”, e.g., there would not be a need to define marriage any longer; and the definition of “civil union” (or other appropriate term) under the laws passed recognizing the same would handle the benefits and burdens of those folks who had entered into the same.
AV,
I am guessing we are on the same sheet. Kinda lost it bout half way through. Been a long day :~D
I agree VT now who will write the definition of what a civil union is?
‘Obama adds symbolic NC victory to White House win‘
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gm2yiI1ldmLIuwjggDkdguj9Hp_gD949K5G00
“North Carolina’s 15 electoral votes brings Obama’s total to 364 — nearly 100 more than necessary to win the White House — to McCain’s 162. Missouri is the only state that remains too close to call, with McCain leading by several thousand votes.
Obama’s win in North Carolina was the first for a Democratic presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter won the state in 1976.
Of Bush’s 2004 states, Obama captured Virginia, Florida and North Carolina in the South, Ohio, Indiana and Iowa in the Midwest and Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico in the West.”
I think the Lebanese saw the troops as occupying/invading forces. And whose definition is/was more important, ours or theirs?
I thought of the barracks bombing as a terrorist attack because of the method. I also think that Reagan’s response served to encourage future terroristic attacks. The main problem with suicide terrorism is that it works very well in accomplishing its objectives.
okobserver,
Are you suggesting that the RNC filed an inaccurate Schedule F form?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/11/open-thread-116-2/#comment-464057
There telling some pretty good campaign stories about the Wasilla Hillbillies on the cable news. About how sarah bought 13 suitcases to carry all the clothes she bought for herself and family.
And, how one time two mccain staffers went to her room to talk strategy with her, and she answered the door in nothing but a towel, and told them to talk to Todd while she got dressed (didn’t say if she went into the other room to dress or not), guess the staffers felt a bit awkward.
“Once we have established this, then we can move forward in the discussion. Otherwise it seems as if you are simply wanting me to argue my stance just because.”
In rereading that comment, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense. I asked you to define your position, that does not seem like a fruitless task to me.
A union between to willing unrelated adults?
StevenEDavis posted November 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm
The main problem with suicide terrorism is that it works very well in accomplishing its objectives.
———–
It also costs a lot less than million dollar cruise missles, and other expensive weapon systems.
cosmos_originally
Posted November 6, 2008 at 2:42 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
Are you suggesting that the RNC filed an inaccurate Schedule F form?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/11/open-thread-116-2/#comment-464057
——————-
Cosmos buddy I am sorry that you want to continue this diatribe of yours. Switch back to GW if it is still on the table. All this form did was put details to what had been released previously. WHO CARES!
No I have not had a stroke. I was yelling at you.
Find a new target. Sarah is back home.
No I have not had a stroke. I was yelling at you.
LMFAO
okobserver,
Thank you for admitting that the sweet, frugal, financially responsible, conservative ‘Joan six-pack’ hockey mom spent at least $150,000 on clothes and accessories.
Okobserver has posted somewhere concerning the steps that she and her husband have taken (executing testamentary instruments, appropriate powers of attorney, etc.) to manage their affairs both during their lives and post mortem. Yes, everyone should do these things. Reality is that a substantial number do not; and there are laws which have been enacted to address these issues.
These laws make a distinction between “married” and “unmarried” individuals in the effect of the same on the individuals subject thereto, as do non-statutory regulation. This leads to disparate treatment of the parties to a relationship, when in one case the parties are married, as allowed by state law, and the parties in the other relationship are not. While not an exclusive “gay = straight” issue (what about the hetero couple who lives together, but does not marry, and the state in which they reside has abolished “common law marriage”), it does affect gay couples particularly. Again, much if not almost all of the problems may be overcome by legal instruments; but a straight “married” couple does not need to do anything to have certain rights protected under the law.
Again, abolition of the term “marriage” in the traditional sense from law, and replacement thereof with civil union, e.g., which may be entered into between two consenting adults, regardless of the gender of the respective parties, would even the playing field, so to speak.
Thank you for admitting that the sweet, frugal, financially responsible, conservative ‘Joan six-pack’ hockey mom spent at least $150,000 on clothes and accessories.
———
Cosmos,
She’s still foxy…I mean that thing is good!
Obama campaign workers:
November 6, 2008 update: Jonathan Swain from the Obama campaign says most of the payment issues have been resolved. A few people showed up Thursday and made arrangements for payment. Those remaining few will receive payment by mail.
Sadly Nathan, I believe that Reagan placed our marines in the position where they were, in fact, an occupying military force. As such, he made them a legitimate target for citizens of the occupied country.
I believe that our fighting men and women wanted to be there as peace-keepers; unfortunately due to the afct that were were and had been an ally of the invaders we were not in that role.
Therefore; the same tactics could be legitimately used against them as against any such occupation force.
The sad thing is that it didn’t have to happen. THAT onus belongs to one man – Ronald Reagan. HE sent them there. HE maintained our alliance with the country that had invaded Lebanon in the first place.
This was VERY different from the expedition Eisenhour sent in in the 1950s. It was viewed as neutral and was not attacked.
As for attacking while they were sleeping – didn’t we do that to the Hessians during the Revolution?
Outstanding. Three on board.
Actually, at least four. I’m pretty sure the number is much higher.
It is hysterical how the simple minded will latch on to the insignificant like a bit bull on a chicken quarter. Joe the Plumber? Yeah, now there was a huge issue in the political mix. I mean, you know, he could have swung the whole thing. Wardrobe expensis? Yeah, that far outweighs the economy and foreign policy. I mean c’mon, we have to know how much each outfit cost. It was the RNC’s money after all. We have to know how they spent their own money!!!
And Joe the Plumber? He was tardy like 8 times his 7th grade year. Now there is some political folly for you.
Such earth shattering issues you bring cosmos. Where would the world be with out you digging up all these pertinent facts?????
Expenses*
Pit bull – DAMN !!!
Pretty damn simple. Let the churches have the “M” word (and that, incidently, would be a nice way to work around Arizona’s recent, dumb, “man and a woman” language).
Civil unions for all. The same rights. It’s not complicated.
OK Rage, let’s go this route. Who opposes the government dropping the term marriage from its vocabulary and only recognizing domestic or civil unions? Letting the church determine what marriage is or isn’t?
Sol, OK by me, so long as the term domestic or civil union is defined as gender neutral regarding the parties thereto.
VT,
A union between to willing unrelated adults?
Sol, a union between two consenting unrelated adults works for me, give the state of knowledge concerning genetic defects which appear in offspring of too closely related parents.
Do I hear dueling banjos?
some states allow cousins to marry
some states allow cousins to marry
Well, to get mathematical, we can hold that variable constant, and deal with the rest.
SolDevVB,
You seem to be confused, and/or simple minded.
Sarah Palin was supposed to represent the average “hockey mom”. She destroyed that, by spending $150k at fancy stores, and having a hair stylist who was paid more than McCain’s advisors.
‘Joe the faux plumber’ was supposed to represent the average worker who would be hurt by Obama’s tax policies. But ‘Joe’, and the business that he idly dreamed about buying would be helped MORE by Obama’s tax policies than by McCain’s.
A political statement that may have been overlooked by many, though not by me:
BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.
The bottom line though is, and I’m glad to hear the governor, I take her at her word, obviously, that she think there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that’s the case, we really don’t have a difference.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html
I don’t complacently expect a follow-up, but it’s a start.
Cosmos, that silly sh*it means nothing now, except in the sense of dissecting political folly for future reference. We won.
Thanks.
‘Obama launches official transition Web site‘
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/06/obama-launches-official-transition-web-site/?eref=politicalflipper
“Barack Obama launched the official government Web site for the presidential transition on Thursday, giving it a look and feel that suggests the new president will utilize the Internet to a much greater degree than his predecessor.”
http://www.change.gov/
Cosmos I think you have finally hit upon the real problem. The stylist made more than the advisors. Well there is a simple answer for this. A stylist has to be trained and licensed and a political advisor can be anyone with no training at all who frequently makes no sense at all.
Point made. Case closed.
Thanks for the link, cosmos. While I will never abandon my skepticism, my cynicism is definitely being challenged.
Osama video maker sentenced to life in prison.
“We are the only ones on earth who stand against you,” al-Bahlul said,adding that the US had only itself to blame for the September 11 attacks.
Sounds like a democrat.
Yawn. . . .
More Republic Party hate –
Gotta love those Baptists down at Baylor University.
http://crooksandliars.com/tags/republican-hate
Monkeyhawk and Maggotpunk have melded!
Tarring groups for the action of one. Check
Religious bigotry. Check.
okobserver posted November 6, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Cosmos I think you have finally hit upon the real problem. The stylist made more than the advisors. Well there is a simple answer for this. A stylist has to be trained and licensed and a political advisor can be anyone with no training at all who frequently makes no sense at all.
—————
Yep. Giving Sarah pretty(sic) hair styles was more important to the McCain campaign than getting good advice on economics, energy, etc. Ya betcha!
outlander – do you condemn this “preacher”?
YellowdogLiberal
Posted November 6, 2008 at 5:59 pm | Permalink
Spirit Church, uh, the minister Mark something, on east Harry has on the marque: America has a Muslim president. This is against the bible, Lev. something, Was driving, couldn’t stop.
He makes all of us Christians look like hating fools. But then I’ll never change his mind, so let him stew in his hatred. He’ll have to answer to St. Peter.
Dennis
Except that the truth is coming out about Palin and the clothes and the stylist. Palin made thwe $150,000 PLUS purchases AGAINST the wishes of the RNC and now they want their money back!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/politics/06mccain.html?scp=2&sq=palin&st=cse
Is Palin a thief as well as a liar? The jury is out.
Piss off! LOL. If ya go to New York City, you SHOP!!!!!!
Well, on a much lighter note,
Here at the Price compound in beautiful Lake Waltanna , life is good.
Four weeks ago we were in Lawrence at the dog show. 11PM at night, everybeardie in bed for the night, I was reading before bed and watching HSN. Wolfgang Puck was selling pressure cookers and I bought one! Always wanted one, now we’ve got one.
We’ve made several meals in it, pot roast, stuffed turkey breast and tonight, chicken and noodles. Home made noodles, made with duck eggs and a chicken from the Dillons bargain bin.
Getting ready to take it all out of the cooker now. Just waiting for it to depressurize.
mmmmm, mmmmm
Gotcha Dave! It is extremely satisfying to shop in NYC with other people’s money! Nothing can be finer!
If the democrats push the Fairness Doctrine on radio, it would only be fair to also push the fairness doctrine on newspapers.
50% of newspapers would have to support the republican candidates in elections and of course throughout the year.
Ditto democrats.
Does this illustrate the problem clearly?
Eagle editors?
This deserves your attention, a thread, and some reporting.
As noted above, the Spirit One christian center is displaying the following on their street marquee.
“America we have a Muslim President. This is sin against Lord!”
Now that is a clear violation by that church of the terms of its tax exempt status.
There is NO liberal counterpart in any media to compare with right wing talk radio. The Fairness doctrine would not silence talk radio but simply require it to present balanced opinion.
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 8:06 pm | Permalink
There is NO liberal counterpart in any media to compare with right wing talk radio. The Fairness doctrine would not silence talk radio but simply require it to present balanced opinion.
—————–
BJ I also want CBS, NBC and ABC news anchors to be required to give favorable coverage to both parties. We know that doesn’t happen now. Also CNN, MSNBC and FOX to show equal coverage. That after all is the American way isn’t it?
BTW BJ Alan Colmes is on every night for 3 hours and believe me he is very liberal.
When is Colmes on? What station?
Colmes is a punching bag for Hannity. He’s no liberal.
Cons refuse to see this, because they can’t.
The fact of it is? The media at large is NOT biased.
SO since the media is not conservative, in the black and white vision of a con, the media is by default “liberal”.
Sorry by the rest of us are not responsible for the narrowness of con thought.
The Fairness doctrine will be coming back. Get used to it.
Ben it is a closely guarded secret but he is on 1330 at 3am to 6am. I discovered him one night when I couldn’t sleep and he is liberal to the core on this show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_colmes#Criticisms
Balance will HELP winger radio.
If Rush had a liberal counterpart, that person could help Rush not do things like make fun of Michael J Fox for being sick.
A liberal contributor might have stopped Hannity from reporting the “McCain supporter mutilated!! hoax.
to compare with right wing talk radio….
Ditto newspapers. What percent of newspapers nationally endorsed John McCain?
To be truly fair and provide a balanced opinion, the unFairness Doctrine needs to apply to all forms of media – starting with newspapers.
Can I help it liberal radio doesn’t sell?
I figured he would be in the “Art Bell” time slot. Since I work a somewhat regular schedule that pretty much rules him out. I suppose that gives KNSS about an 80-20 right-left mix. With ALL of prime time devoted to the right.
Listen to Colmes on the radio and there will be not doubt of his political bent. He is liberal thru and thru.
BJ the fairness doctrine would be one of the worst things that could happen to our country. I say this knowing I have griped about the liberal tone of the MSM. You can’t force fairness on a private business. The money spent to air this medium is private. The advertisers choose what programing they want to support. What you are advocating is straight out of Castro’s Cuba.
I would see this as the death of AM radio and a real boon for satelite radio – or do you plan to regulate that for fairness also. Maybe to even out Stern we could have a little Pat Robertson.
Thats probably right Ben but you have to offer what sells. Would a toy store stock their shelfs with Lincoln Logs, hula hoops and jacks when they can sell all of the electronic toys they put out?
This isn’t a government owned commodity it is a private business with real peoples capital invested in order to have a favorable return on their investment.
The airwaves belong to the public.
They should NOT be the exclusive shilling ground for huge corporations (Clear channel) using spokesliars to get people to vote against their own best interest.
There really isn’t going to be an argument if Dems bring back the Fairness doctrine. You cons are in a position to demand nothing. Elections matter.
Bj the airwaves belong to the highest bidder and you know that. If the left wants some bid it up. Quit expecting to get something for nothing. The world isn’t fair.
Whoooaaaa was that a threat I heard from bad ole bluebird. You won an election and now you are king of the mountain. I hope your candidate has more sense than you just displayed.
BJ just a thought for you. There are countries where the same side always wins, no one on the opposing side is allowed to talk, and you are told what to think. They do have universal healthcare and will feed you, not well, but that shouldn’t be a requirement. I can find a perfect one for you to move to – just let me know.
okob – you are correct in that. Years ago I listened to talk radio some but found it incredible boring. I prefer to be challenges (something like Charlie Rose) to think rather than being told what to think. So, it is understandable that colmes does not command a large following.
Besides – I work during the day and try to get some sleep overnight. If I can’t sleep I usually tune in to the Hutch PBS station for classical music.
‘Palin lays low as interview requests pile up’
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h21ZbzgPbTVRftcJPT5vkHkonY5QD949PGI80
“The governor said she hoped to work with President-elect Obama on energy policy.”
——————–
Ya betcha. . . wink, wink!
Sarah can pray to God that the $30+ billion nat gas pipeline will be built.
And Sarah can LIE some more about drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/427xjuoj.asp
“One of the pieces of a solution is allowing exploration on that little 2,000 acre plot of land out of the 20 million acres up there in the coastal plain.”
“Whoooaaaa was that a threat I heard from bad ole bluebird.”
Only a small and frightened mind confronts a fact by calling it a threat.
Democrats won the election. Talk radio is CLEARLY biased and requires the attention of responsible government intervention and correction in order that the people’s airwaves are used with respect.
BJ you give me a good laugh every time I read your posts. Thanks
Ben I just listen to Colmes. He is better than a sleeping pill.
Might try PBS next. I love classical but sometimes it gets a little loud. The first accountant I ever worked for was from NYC and when we were closing each month the classical music came on and as we got closer it went up. By the day we closed it was so loud the crystal was shaking. I just get nostalgic when I turn on the classical now.
“There really isn’t going to be an argument if Dems bring back the Fairness doctrine. You cons are in a position to demand nothing. Elections matter.”
I would love to see that happen…I’m sick of the lies and propaganda that is spread by right wing radio…and even sicker of the gullible Americans who take it for gospel.
Hey BlueBird,
Why is it you quite your job?
You have a decidedly odd manner of displaying amusement okie.
Mary be very careful of what you wish for. Wars have been fought for the freedom of speech and you and BJ are ready to take it away so that people who choose to can’t listen to the radio programs they want to. A very slippery slope.
Colmes is on XM radio around 9pm, live. Channel 168 or 166. 167 is left wing radio. I listen to 6 a lot (sixties) or 12 (Cross Country). My baby likes to listen to 16 (Bluegrass).
The dems have tried to institute the ‘Fairness Doctrine’ every year. They’ll try it again. Right wing talk radio might be too big to stop now.
hehehe
American he wanted to be home all day to listen to talk radio. He’s addicted don’t ya know.
The problem with our profit-driven, conglomerate-owned U.S. media is not “liberal” bias.
The main problem is the superficial, dysfunctional coverage of trivia by the millionaire pundits, instead of in-depth coverage of important issues.
Tax season I like Buffalo Springfield … For Wat It’s Worth …
“Paranoia strikes deep … into you heart it will creep … it starts when you’re always afraid … step outa line the man come and take you away”
Goes well with tax returns …
“Wars have been fought for the freedom of speech and you and BJ are ready to take it away so that people who choose to can’t listen to the radio programs they want to.”
The Fairness doctrine silenced no speech.
It simply saw to it that the public airwaves served the public interest and NOT the interests of giant corporations fronting political ideology.
It would seem that YOU okie, are the one who would silence speech that you disagree with.
Hank I am a country music junkie. And I know I can always depend on BJ to tell me what happened on am talk radio. The new Uverse ATT 527 plays new country all day long.
BTW – I do not see ‘fairness doctrine’ as realistically doable. There are not two sides but many. How could you regulate that? You can’t.
BJ you are really so ill informed that you don’t even know the issues. Your hatred for ‘giant corporations’ doesn’t allow any reason in your mindset.
On second thought you really aren’t funny. You are pathetic. Hope Obama knows you are sitting there with your hand out. I would hate to see you 4 years from now if he hasn’t filled it.
G’night all. ‘Granny’ – give the grandkids a hug if you have them. :)
So, let me walk with you okie.
First you were angry, then amused, then back to angry again.
I guess we will mark you as …confused reactionary.
With the side note of popular opinion that you really are not very bright.
No kids tonight. School tomorrow. But will have two tomorrow and plan to go to Ok on saturday.
Nite all
Blue Bird,
You are sounding like Castro in Cuba when you talk about the “peoples”‘ airwaves.
Answer the question. Do you beilieve then that the liberal television media should be required to be more balanced?
Who is going to decide who is liberal and who is not/ The government? What a joke!
Thanks BJ I am always honored that you think enough of me to raise me up as a topic of conversation at your ’secret’ meetings. But I can only bask in the sunlight of your admiration so long and then I have to put on the sunscreen.
BTW Bj I heard from Raj today and he thanked me for my support during his campaign.
“Do you beilieve then that the liberal television media should be required to be more balanced?”
What liberal television media?
Aside from FOX news and talk radio, I see no bias either way in media.
That media is not conservative does not make it liberal by default unless you see things in a one way or the other light.
Sarah Palin was supposed to represent the average “hockey mom”. She destroyed that, by spending $150k at fancy stores, and having a hair stylist who was paid more than McCain’s advisors
So, you of course have evidence that Palin demanded the wardrobe she was provided at the expense of the RNC? You have proof that she dictated to the buyers exactly what she was to be provided? You have facts to support that what the RNC bought for her was to her specification? Of course you do because only an ass would place the blame on Palin for accepting clothes for a national race.
‘Joe the faux plumber’ was supposed to represent the average worker who would be hurt by Obama’s tax policies. But ‘Joe’, and the business that he idly dreamed about buying would be helped MORE by Obama’s tax policies than by McCain’s.
So “some guy” that asked a question of Obama deserves to have his junior high school record exposed to the public. How dare he ask a tough question of The One? He deserved the public scrutiny and invasion of privacy. Why should he not? He did after all ask the One a tough question. And God foribid The One’s Marxist position be exposed.
Gotcha. You believe in “The One” just like you believed in the bull$hit hype of global warming, in the midst of 11 years of cooling. Gotcha.
American posted November 6, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Who is going to decide who is liberal and who is not/ The government? What a joke!
———–
No. . . the joke is that right-wing-nuts like Rush and Drudge are becoming irrelevant.
And that Obama won ~ 364 electoral votes (270 required to win) versus McCain’s ~ 162.
You are sounding like Castro in Cuba when you talk about the “peoples”‘ airwaves.
Wrong. It’s reality, acknowledging that the electromagnetic spectrum is a limited natural resource, and its use is iicensed by the government, going back to the Radio Act of 1927.
You want to scrap that infrastructure, fine, get rid of licensing altogether. With modern technology, we’ll see all kindsa guerrilla warfare over various frequencies, and a whole lotta unintelligable noise.
Not that you’d be likely to notice the difference.
What liberal television media?
ABC
NBC
CBS
CNN
MSNBC
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
SolDevVB,
Thank you for yet again proving that you do not understand politics. And that you do not understand AGW science.
“What liberal television media?
ABC
NBC
CBS
CNN
MSNBC”
And your proof that they are liberal?
Beyond your own opinion, I mean.
cosmos,
Thank you for proving you are a liberal shill stuck up Gore’s @ss and up the lying IPCC’s @ss.
I know you don’t want me to once again break out the lies of the last IPCC report. And the facts of the last 10 years of cooling.
If I am wrong, let me know. I’ve got them all saved off in a word document. Easy enough to copy/paste the lies and the fool you are.
Bluejay,
If you watched any of the stations I listed and cannot see the bias, then there is no hope for you.
Here is some of SolDevVB’s proof(sic) that our for-profit, conglomerate-owned media is “liberal”(sic).
‘TWO DAYS IN THE LIFE! Your brain doesn’t want you believing the truth. And yet, the truth is there:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh062608.shtml
“Thank you for proving you are a liberal shill stuck up Gore’s @ss and up the lying IPCC’s @ss.”
ANOTHER angry and reactionary con.
“If you watched any of the stations I listed and cannot see the bias, then there is no hope for you.”
It is your opinion that the media is biased. And as I have noted, in the con mind, something is either conservative or not.
Me? I see in shades of gray. Now I thought much of the media was biased against Senator Clinton. But, clearly it was just me since no cons weighed in to second my opinion.
GREAT proof cosmos. So you fail. Nuff said. What a sad pathetic life you have. Chasing false dream after false dream.
Me? I see in shades of
Not enough socialism. Because I refuse to get a job to support myself and my family. I am waiting for the government to hand me something for nothing because I have been a good liberal and deserve the fruits of other’s labor because I have been a good liberal and refuse to be productive in society “
SolDevVB posted November 6, 2008 at 9:54 pm
cosmos,
Thank you for proving you are a liberal shill stuck up Gore’s @ss and up the lying IPCC’s @ss.
I know you don’t want me to once again break out the lies of the last IPCC report. And the facts of the last 10 years of cooling.
If I am wrong, let me know. I’ve got them all saved off in a word document. Easy enough to copy/paste the lies and the fool you are.
————–
Knock yourself out, SolDevVB.
Prove yet AGAIN to everyone that you are so simple-minded and clueless that you are UNABLE to understand:
1) The difference between “drafts”, and a “final” report.
2) That 1998 had a large warming spike caused by a record El Nino.
3) That 2007 and ‘08 have had cooling caused by La Nina, and a solar minimum.
4) That # 2 and 3 above do NOT refute AGW science.
And you know all this about me….how solie?
Clue me in, is italics your version of screaming?
I have asked you for evidence to support your opinion that the media is biased and you have attacked me making assertions with no evidence. Just MORE or your uninformed and narrow opinion.
If we were speaking face to face, this would equate to you making a wild claim, me asking you for proof and you throwing your shoe at me and calling me names.
Can you do better?
The Oregon race for US Senate is in.
Dems now have 57 in the Senate.
SolDevVB posted November 6, 2008 at 9:54 pm
(linked to http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ )
cosmos,
Thank you for proving you are a liberal shill stuck up Gore’s @ss and up the lying IPCC’s @ss.
————————
And thank you SolDevVB, for so wisely and elegantly REPRESENTING your candidate, Dr. Ron Paul. /sarcasm OFF
Such whining and moaning over the “Fairness Doctrine” — Mercy sakes…
REMEMBER: The Fairness Doctrine was NEVER about equal TIME… The Fairness Doctrine never shut down any Radio Station in its entire existence!!
Somebody said upthread that the air waves belong to the owners of the stations… That is simply, and blatantly FALSE… The airwaves belong to the PEOPLE. Stations are required to be LICENSED… The Stations may be owned by the owners, but the airwaves they “Broadcast” on are PUBLIC airwaves… not owned by any corporation.
The Fairness Doctrine would NOT apply to Cable, Satellite, XM, Sirius, the internet, or anything of the sort…
The Fairness Doctrine would NOT mean the end of AM Radio, or more specifically TALK Radio…
I defy ANYbody to show how the Fairness Doctrine would be an END to Talk radio…
It is a similar bogus argument like Gay Marriage is the end of marriage… Yea, right…
In other words, IF the Fairness Doctrine makes a come back, so be it… get over it… LIVE with it… It isnt out to get you… So, knock off with the damned Right Wing Paranoid Shuffle!!
Thank you.
All this talk about “free airwaves”.
You realize of course, that our internet WIFI will fall under government control using that logic.
My problem with the Fairness Doctrine is it
imposes on the First Ammendment in my opinion.
Yes the Government (via the FCC) “owns” or regulates the airwaves.
My leasing of those, I should be able to say whatever I please (within reason – obsensity, promoting violence/terroristic acts, etc.) without an alternate viewpoint being heard in my leased time.
My problem with the Fairness Doctrine is it
imposes on the First Ammendment in my opinion.
Yes the Government (via the FCC) “owns” or regulates the airwaves.
My leasing of those, I should be able to say whatever I please (within reason – obsensity, promoting violence/terroristic acts, etc.) without an alternate viewpoint being heard in my leased time.