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199 Comments
Ha! I’m first this morning! Early Happy Thanksgiving everyone…count your blessings and do whatever you can to make the world a better place.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too Mary, and your’s is good advice
Oops, creationism disproved again, the irrefutable fact of evolution remains unchallenged.
Jurassic Turtles Could Swim
ScienceDaily (Nov. 26, 2008) — Around 164 million years ago the earliest aquatic turtles lived in lakes and lagoons on the Isle of Skye, Scotland, according to new research.
Recent scientific fieldwork led by researchers from UCL and the Natural History Museum on Skye, an island off the north-western coast of Scotland, discovered a block of rock containing fossils that have been recognised as a new species of primitive turtle Eileanchelys waldmani.
Months of work at the Natural History Museum freed these skeletons from the rock, revealing four well-preserved turtles and the remnants of at least two others. These remains, and a beautiful skull found nearby, represent the most complete Middle Jurassic turtle described to date, offering substantial new insights into the early evolution of turtles and how they diversified into the varied forms we see today.
More real science, not creationist myth at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081119093227.htm
Maggot,
Who are you trying to convince with your mostly unread diatribes every morning? I suspect it is the guy in the mirror fella, you aren’t going to convince anyone else that knows differently and you should know that.
“If I discover within myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world”
—C.S. Lewis quote
Anyone that drones on and on about creationism has got to be very insecure, knowing there is more to this than chance, but instead divine order.
MP
Keep posting about the reality of evolution!
Anytime you can put the creationists on their heels, it is great. Maybe you can get a few of them to understand that their myths cannot explain the natural world and that “super-natural” is a figment of their imagination.
I wonder what kind of mouthwash bigotbawks uses to get that bitter taste out of his mouth? Poodles every where are dying to know before the next poodle dance!
Boxlicker, why are you afraid of science? Don’t worry, you don’t have to read the articles since you are so afraid of getting educated.
I read some, rarely the ones you post though, frankly.
I also realize they are the postulations of mere mortals, who have but a very dim view of things as they really are. What was once assumed to be infallible truth is often later proven false or very incomplete. Very possibly all of science is simply the slow discovery of how the creator went about it.
It is idiocy to believe that all the complexity of the universe happened as a result of chaos.
“I read some, rarely the ones you post though, frankly.:
Funny, he says that about everyone he hates. But also funny, he always knows EVERY word they posted.
“I also realize they are the postulations of mere mortals, who have but a very dim view of things as they really are.”
heheheh. Unlike bigotbawks, who knows the mind of god and never hesitates to speak for him. We get the gospel according to bigotbawks relentlessly.
“What was once assumed to be infallible truth is often later proven false or very incomplete.”
Like the bible? hehehhe. HAHAHAHAHAH!
He should heed his own words. Very often they are proven false or very inconplete. But then he speaks for god, so it must be true!
How’s it hanging kfg? :D
“I also realize they are the postulations of mere mortals, who have but a very dim view of things as they really are.”
The great, all-knowing Boxlicker is going to reveal to the truth to all us mere mortals. Sheesh, what an ego.
Ann Coulter has a broken jaw and had to have her mouth wired shut.
Heh, heh, heh!
Ain’t karma great?
“Sheesh, what an ego.”
Yeah, I love how he crows when he bags on JR for wanting to “save the world”.
Hell, at least JR doesnt claim to be the mouthpiece of god…
Yeah XXX. They sure are being “closed mouthed” about the details, no?
Please BL20, please show evidence of this “creator”.
May you all enjoy the fellowship of friends and family this holiday. May you all loosen your pants to get that last bit of pie down. May you all be thankful for what you have and remember it could be worse.
Enjoy Thanksgiving!
Happy T-Day ANTI,
Elastic banded pants work wonders!…
“Ann Coulter has a broken jaw and had to have her mouth wired shut.”
—–
Such proof of karma! What goes around DOES come around! I liked the words used in this peice:
“Page Six is reporting that right-wing agitator and controversy-seeker Ann Coulter’s jaw is wired tightly shut.
I know, I know. If the report is true, It’s almost as if our prayers have been answered.
Apparently it was broken, but by whom, no one seems to be sure. We could hazard a guess, but why throw roses yet.
The blogosphere is already aquiver over the idea of a forced Coulter Moment of Silence.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2008/11/oh-dear-page-si.html
America (the thinking part) has 0 confidence in bush.
Analysts said Obama’s daily economic pronouncements showed the next president stepping into a leadership chasm.
“Confidence in Bush as an effective president has eroded so substantially that he is no longer taken seriously,” said Paul Beck, a professor of political science at Ohio State University.
Happy Turkey Day! I hope everone has to undo more than one button tomorrow! Tou are right Regular…elastic is a great thing this time of year! LOL
“It is idiocy to believe that all the complexity of the universe happened as a result of chaos.”
————-
And illogical as well Boxlock. All of this from nothingness, by blind chance? That’s a much bigger leap of faith, in my mind, than belief in a Creator.
But regardless of your belief or non-belief, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours tomorrow.
Chas should like this, he loves to post obituaries:
Obituary
Common Sense
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn’t always fair, and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a class mate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student; but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn’t defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.
He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I’m a Victim.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
“And illogical as well Boxlock. All of this from nothingness, by blind chance? That’s a much bigger leap of faith, in my mind, than belief in a Creator.”
Funny, it’s the creationists who claim everything came from nothing from the blind chance that an imaginary creator will decide to create everything. Thankfully reality based scientists (not creationists, obviously) don’t adhere to creationists notions.
JimJohnson
Posted November 26, 2008 at 8:49 am | Permalink
Chas should like this, he loves to post obituaries
—
I have always suspected that Chas is far more influential than most give him credit for.
Like JimJohnson, many come here and (1) promptly slander Chas, followed immediately by (2) plaintively prefacing something they post with a request for comment from….Chas, lol.
If you are at all objective — and if success as a spiritual leader is defined in part by the number of thoughts provoked — then it seems pretty obvious to me that Chas is a pretty darn effective (and successful) preacher here.
Your maggot scientists also claim everything came from nothing, what’s your point?
Jim Jones provoked some thoughts too.
Was he effective?
Yes, very. He got a bunch of people to commit suicide, didn’t he?
Now your turn. Would you ask Jim Jones for comment on something you post? I think not, mon frere.
QED
Ann Coulter has a broken jaw and had to have her mouth wired shut.
They missed her fingers. She can still type.
Jim Baker had his own TV Evangelist Network and provoked some thought.
Was he effective?
Heck, you could say Bakker and Jones were BOTH effective and successful!
Evolution and adaptation of species doesn’t exist…
If it were true, dogs wouldn’t still be peeing and crapping on the carpet.
:D
Something was created from nothing at somepoint.
It’s how far in the cycle do you want to believe it was created.
“Jim Baker had his own TV Evangelist Network and provoked some thought.
Was he effective?”
—-
Always seemed to me his goal was raising lots of money, and I think he accomplished that.
No idea.
Do ever come here to slander Jim Baker and then ask for his opinion?
Look you don’t even RESPECT Chas, but he’s still effective with you.
It’s a talent.
While you all are loosening your pants tomorrow, after your gorging feast, remember to think of those who can’t.
I will be thankful this yr. that the Village Idiot, will soon be returning to his village!
The legacy of the WPE:
“Further underscoring weakness, Americans’ disposable income fell at an annual rate of 9.2 percent in the same period, the largest drop in records that date to 1947.
And The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the number of Americans using food stamps to buy groceries was expected to pass 30 million this month, a new record.”
As I predicted long ago, bush will make Hoover look like a genius, and hoover will no longer be the one that all other presidential failures are compared to.
“Something was created from nothing at somepoint.
It’s how far in the cycle do you want to believe it was created.” — Mr. diarrhea
The problem with the God created the universe concept is who created God. If you can believe God “just is” then it’s no different than saying the universe “just is.”
Who made God? And anyway, Mr. Diarrhea, what would nothing “be.” Would it have dimensions? And if God created the universe from nothing, where was he?
No religious pissant has ever been able to answer any of these questions.
#
Predestined
Posted November 26, 2008 at 9:20 am | Permalink
While you all are loosening your pants tomorrow, after your gorging feast, remember to think of those who can’t.
————————
Naw, you do that before hand by giving what you can so others can enjoy thanksgiving.
I gave to three different organizations thus far, so others can have extra food, a thanksgiving dinner and some warm clothes.
Thanksgiving amongst your family and friends is the time to be thankful for what you have and what you have you can share.
Got it covered ya know…
…and on a different subject…
This is the start of the Holiday Movie Season. I dont know if “Milk” is playing anywhere near Wichita, and given the bible thumpers in your community, I doubt it.
But… if you get a chance to see the movie, please do, and remember a great American hero named Harvey Milk. I’ve seen the documentary based on his life, and it was moving indeed. Word is that this movie is even more moving and powerful.
If you want to know why you should see this movie, take a look at this link. It made me want to drive to Kansas City or Denver just so I could get the inspiration.
http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/20081126_get_milk/
MILK!!!!
#
beber
Posted November 26, 2008 at 9:29 am | Permalink
“Something was created from nothing at somepoint.
It’s how far in the cycle do you want to believe it was created.” — Mr. diarrhea
The problem with the God created the universe concept is who created God. If you can believe God “just is” then it’s no different than saying the universe “just is.”
Who made God? And anyway, Mr. Diarrhea, what would nothing “be.” Would it have dimensions? And if God created the universe from nothing, where was he?
No religious pissant has ever been able to answer any of these questions.
——————–
Yo dunder head,
How can one create something that is not bound by time?
If something has no beginning or ending where does one start and stop?
yours truly,
resident pissant
Ah, thanksgiving; the sound of cons lying about giving. If the cons gave as much as they claim, there wouldn’t be any poverty or hunger in the world.
On another topic —
Rumor mill has it that Obama is to keep Gates as sec. def.
While I still worry about the social programs promised by Obama, I am hopeful. He is building a strong cabinet. He has promised to srtip the budget of needless programs. He may not be so bad after all.
Did anyone else see the Colbert Christmas Special?
I’m still HOWLING about Willie Nelson and his “gift” to the baby Jesus. heheheh. HAHAHAHAHHAHA.
I love it at the end when he wonders if the baby Jesus would mind if he took his weed back?
hee hee hee heeeeee….
Now THAT was the funniest thing I’ve seen in a loooooong time!
#
beber
Posted November 26, 2008 at 9:42 am | Permalink
Ah, thanksgiving; the sound of cons lying about giving. If the cons gave as much as they claim, there wouldn’t be any poverty or hunger in the world.
—————-
I have receipts.
What you got other than your stingy guilty conscious? :D
If the cons gave as much as they claim, there wouldn’t be any poverty or hunger in the world.
Thought it was the libs that want to save the world. Guess that is only if it uses someone else’s money right berber?
It really does surprise me how many speak publicly about their giving.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
The NY Times says “Milk” is the best picture of the year.
beber
Posted November 26, 2008 at 9:42 am | Permalink
Ah, thanksgiving; the sound of cons lying about giving. If the cons gave as much as they claim, there wouldn’t be any poverty or hunger in the world.
—————————————————-
Spoken as a true socialist.
Sounds like some have not been reading their Bibles lately –
Like Mark 12:38-44 or Luke 20:45-47,21:1-4.
Mite be a good idea.
This Thanksgiving I’m so thankful and optimistic about our future for the first time in many years.
Obama inspires me oh so much!
“I should like to help everyone if possible; Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, black men, white, red, and yellow. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each others’ happiness, not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men’s souls; has barricaded the world with hate; we live in misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Industry that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge as made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little.
More than wealth we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. Modern communications and technology have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in man; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all.
Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women, and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me, I say “Do not despair.” The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.
Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty! In the seventeenth chapter of St. Luke, it’s written “the kingdom of God is within man”, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people, have the power, the power to create prosperity, the power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power.
Let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men and women a chance to work, that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfill their promise. They never will!
Evil rulers free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world! To do away with national barriers! To do away with greed, with hate and intolerance! Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness.
Citizens of the world, in the name of democracy, let us all unite!
People can you hear me? Wherever you are, look up! The clouds are lifting! The sun is breaking through! We are coming out of the darkness into the light! We are coming into a new world; a kind new world, where men and women will rise above their hate, their greed, and brutality. Look up! The soul of mankind has been given wings and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow. Into the light of hope! Into the future! The glorious future! That belongs to you, to me, and to all of us. Look up, everyone! Look up!”
For someone that doesn’t follow the bible, you sure like to reference scripture. Were you molested by a priest and turned away from religion?
For all you know, “SolDevVB” –
I could be reading it for the same reason W.C. Fields did:
“Looking for loopholes.”
50% of America is obese, and the Lib mantra is still about the poor starving people.
Never enough teets for the Libs suckin on that great American Government sow.
To all you Libs, I hope you have a good suck this Thanksgiving, and that for one day at least, your bellies are full, and your mouths are shut.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Oh and Pendant, speaking of sucking, I’m sure you will make Chas very happy this Thanksgiving.
Ann Coulter broke her jaw and has her mouth wired shut?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
JimJohnson
Posted November 26, 2008 at 10:19 am | Permalink
Oh and Pendant, speaking of sucking, I’m sure you will make Chas very happy this Thanksgiving.
—
lol, I see Chas is STILL workin’ his magic on you (in particular).
Happy Thanksgiving!
Not that anyone will (except Sean) will notice his mousey absence…
Colmes is removing himself from the Hannity and Colmes show.
I guess the new show will be Hannity and his ego .
Colmes is such a milqutoast.
Maybe if (ugh!) doesn’t win the Senate seat for Minnesota he could go on Hannity’s show every day.
They’d have to carpet the area under Sean’s chair with Smam-Wows, just to collect the urine.
I guess the new show will be Hannity and his ego .
Heh, like it was anything other than that. Colmes’ only purpose was a pretense of “balance” to Hannity’s fact-free rants.
It’s a good sign that Colmes no longer feels any need to play that game.
“…Hannity and his ego.”
You’ll need to get that wide screen TV.
Who made God? And anyway, Mr. Diarrhea, what would nothing “be.” Would it have dimensions? And if God created the universe from nothing, where was he?
No religious pissant has ever been able to answer any of these questions.
—————-
Don’t tax your brain beber.
The 28%ers will soon become the 10 %ers, and 50 % of the 10%ers will live in kansas.
Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation?
You should take that up with “Regular,” “Mr_Kia.”
You should take that up with “Regular,” “Mr_Kia.”
Indeed. If you think there’s a somehow an inverse correlation between civility and philosophical naturalism, you just haven’t been paying attention.
“Mr_Kia
Posted November 26, 2008 at 10:46 am | Permalink
Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation?”
Unfortunatetly, that is not reserved solely for the God-less. There are plenty of so-called Christians that will go into a red faced tirade easily enough.
Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation? Mr_Kia
——
Like your post at 9:53 this morning? Guess the old saying about pointing one finger points four back at you…
http://tinyurl.com/6k2k83
The CON Litany Sumarized
“Please BL20, please show evidence of this “creator”.”
The evidence is all over my life. If not in yours you need to be worrying about that. But then again, it is written:
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, ‘He catches the wise in their own craftiness’; and again, ‘The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.’” 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
“…the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14-15
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. For it is written: ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.’
“Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Corinthians 1:18-25
“The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God.’ Psalm 53:1
“Fools mock at sin, but among the upright there is favor.” Proverbs 14:9
“A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart.” Proverbs 18:2
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools…” Romans 1:20-22
“The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
But the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise than for a man to hear the song of fools.
For like the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool.
This also is vanity.” Ecclesiastes 7:4-6
He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed.” Proverbs 13:20
“The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who heeds counsel is wise.” Proverbs 12:15
Now my own chosen verse:
“And Joshua said unto all the people, . . . choose you this day whom ye will serve; . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord” (Josh. 24:2, 15).
Oh, and notice how the vile chicken farmer comes completely undone (up thread) whenever she (or whatever) sees a post of mine. That just tells me she has lost it. I guess that’s just another queer thing about her. How pathetic you are kfg, how really pathetic.
Happy Thanksgiving, you certainly need something in your life, that’s obvious. Lets hope you don’t get what you deserve.
“whoever says, “You fool!” shall be in danger of hell fire” Matt 5:22
Boxlicker needs to do more than pick and choose out of his book of myths. He probably believes Hebrew slaves built the pyramids because the Bible says so.
Lets hope you don’t get what you deserve.
My understanding of the Dead Carpenter’s words tells me that’s not a particularly Christian sentiment.
But then, seventy percent of Kansans (and, alas, fifty-two percent of Arizonans) decided they preferred a mean-spirited reading of Leviticus to the words of their Christ.
lindainks55
Posted November 26, 2008 at 10:57 am | Permalink
Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation? Mr_Kia
——
Like your post at 9:53 this morning? Guess the old saying about pointing one finger points four back at you…
————————————————–
Socialist is a true political designation. Like referring to someone as a Democrat. Or a Republican. I wouldn’t take that as a ‘bad word’.
What I was called was sophmoric at best.
Maggot, you need to study before opening your self-professed nonspiritual mouth.
Interesting on How people will take Matthew 5:22 out of Context and place it in a context that “fits’” what they want it to Fit.
And whoever says to his brother, “Raca!” shall be in danger of the council: To call someone “Raca” expressed contempt for their intelligence. Calling someone a fool showed contempt for their character. Either one broke the heart of the law against murder, even if it did not commit murder.
i. Commentators have translated the idea behind Raca as “nitwit, blockhead, numbskull, bonehead, brainless idiot.”
Can we call someone a fool or not?
Matthew 5:22 and Matthew 23:17; Psalm 14:1
Do not call someone a fool
(Matthew 5:22) – “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”
Calling someone a fool
(Psalm 14:1) – “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good”
(Matthew 23:17) – “You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?”
When Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that you should not call anyone a fool, contextually, He was speaking of those who were unrighteously angry. That is why Jesus mentions anger in this verse. There is a righteous anger which is not sinful (Eph. 4:26 – “Be angry and do not sin . . .” ) as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (James 1:20 – “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.”). When God is angry with someone, He is always righteous in His anger. Jesus, being God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9;), can righteously be angry with people and pronounce upon them the foolishness of their deeds which He did (Matt. 23:17). Also, undoubtedly, Jesus knew Psalm 14:1 which says, “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God . . .” Jesus didn’t forget the well known verse and God is not wrong for calling someone a fool, especially when it is true.
So, we see that the condemnation of someone in regards to calling someone a fool is in the context of doing it out of unrighteous anger which does not fit the later citations of Jesus labeling the hypocritical Pharisees as fools.
Maggot, you have professed to with your own mouth you are a fool according to scripture, I simply observe that.
“Dead Carpenter”
Rage FYI, Christians believe He isn’t dead. In fact, that’s the foundation of Christianity.
1 Corinthians 15:13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins…
31 I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”
Rage FYI, Christians believe He isn’t dead. In fact, that’s the foundation of Christianity.
I’m quite aware of that. I’m not require to agree, ya know!
Yup, Boxlicker, your Bible has to be rewritten in order to fit into your narrow viewpoint. The Bible is quite clear, you call someone a fool and you are in danger of hellfire, you’re the one trying to rewrite it in order to mean something it doesn’t clearly say.
Then again, you think of yourself as a god. How arrogant is that? Try looking up the punishment for blasphemy in the Bible and due yourself the proper punishment (nah, you’re a hypocrite, you won’t bother).
There’s still time to reject your superstition and embrace reality.
Farmgrrl…
Hope is supposed to be in Wichita next week… there was someone who posted that on my Facebook page, but no details.
“outlander” –
Did the Corinthians ever write back?
From the book Rapture For the Geeks: When AI Outsmarts IQ:
“For scientists and technologists, truth always had a small t. So you would expect that as we become ever more scientific and technological, as we spend ever greater portions of our day absorbed in one screen or another, then religion would gradually wither, along with astrology and other quesionable pursuits. Why, then, are extreme religions gaining ground? A recent PBS special looked at just that issue and determined that ‘more people than ever before are devout as measured by attendance in houses of worship. In the United States alone, on a percentage basis, three times more people attend church, synagogue, temple, or mosque than did when the nation was founded.’” (page 15 and 16)
I would recommend the book by Richard Dooling (who resides in Omaha, NE), Harmony Books: New York, copyright, 2008.
The quote above was just a different take on the religious views that get aired here, almost daily. The PBS quote brings into the question the oft cited (but dubious) assertion that the U.S. had christian or even religious, more broadly, beginnings.
Dooling goes on to explain the rise in religious conservatism:
“Christian sociologist Don Miller [argues] that techology and efficiency lack the ability to give our deeper selves meaning, a quest that unfailingly appears to be a universal need for all human beings.” (page 16)
Thanks for the break, now back to the religious bickering… that seems to be practiced religously around here…
Silly Christian belief, getting hair cuts saps your strength. Therefore shouldn’t we impose God’s Commandment forbidding the cutting of hair? Let’s all protest Hair Planet today so we can enforce godly moral values.
Stupid religion.
This argument is as pointless as trying to cut down a might redwood with a tire.
Use the Morality Master 2.0 to check if your moral compass is on par with God’s or if you are as evil as Satan.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/11/i_dont_think_i_should_get_this.php
Early Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I’m kind of missing cold weather today.
We are attempting a turkducken this year, wish us luck!
Mmmm…meat stuffed inside of meat stuffed inside of meat with meat stuffing in between each meat.
Great article:
http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?NewMessageID=24046&pf=yes
Hey, Tara:
Tried to respond to your email, but it bounced back.
I am jealous Tara. I want a Turducken.
Hope it turns out well.
On the Harvey Milk movie, NPR all of last week and this week too, have been covering that story with frequent mentions of the movie. One actor from the movie was on Terry Gross’s Fresh Air. He said that the director and screen play writer decided to write a kissing scene into the first five minutes of the film.
Paraphrasing their reasoning: “Well, everybody is going to be wondering what it will be like to see the straight actor, Sean Penn, kiss a man. We thought we would get that over with early, so people could refocus on the story.”
Maybe those Hollywood types really do manipulate us! Is it their fault, or ours?
No religious pissant has ever been able to answer any of these questions.
Nobody here has been able to tell me the location of Heaven, either. Must be in their minds…
KFG, I intend to see “Milk”.
Mr. controversy,
I cleaned out that mailbox just now, maybe give it another try?
Nathan,
I tried to incorporate a tenderloin into it but physics got the better of me.
I have receipts.
ROFL Gotta have that deduction, right, Reg?
Tara,
Are you going to use Sausage stuffing?
Predestined,
The problem is that the very same questions can be asked of those who believe in “science.”
Where did matter come from? What caused the Big Bang and where did that come from?
These types of questions plague more than just those who believe in God.
Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation?
I wasn’t aware JimJohnson is an atheist.
Nathaniel, did I mention the Big Bang? Did I mention science? Matter or anything related? In fact, did I ask a question?
I really love this Internet source .. http://www.hischannel.com/vodtv.php .. (you might have to do a quick download) . . . . You all have a very blessed Thanksgiving and may God watch over all on the roads and highways .. drive careful . . .
WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me “to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLIC THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:” . . . . . George Washington 1789
So, dadman, if I’m not thanking the Christian God, I can’t celebrate Thanksgiving?
“There’s still time to reject your superstition and embrace reality.”
—the Maggot
Ha, ha, sounds like you are getting a little hot under the collar there Maggot, be careful, you ain’t seen nothing yet as to how it might be.
You see your statement above is exactly what Jesus was referring to and calling fools….it is not me judging or calling a fellow brother a fool, you yourself have made the case.
There is no fault it me recognizing that fact and warning you.
But I’m glad you are ‘hot’, it shows you are listening and know it’s true.
Ahh yes, but, on this Thanksgiving, we can all be Thankful that all are FREE to believe what they feel best for them….
Be Thankful… Be very thankful….
Hey I’m out’a here. Off to a fun Thanksgiving with lots of food and refreshment, and maybe a little bird hunting, and most importantly lots to be thankful for.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, including the Maggot and kfg.
Later,
Chas,
Yes, you are free to believe what ever makes you feel good.
The fact that you do is why you are no Christian.
Predestined,
My comment was in response to yours:
“Nobody here has been able to tell me the location of Heaven, either. Must be in their minds…”
Which was in response to Beber’s.
“Something was created from nothing at somepoint.”
Nonsense. That is not a necessary assumption. Believers like yourself believe in an eternal god, do you not? Therefore, there was always something. It is not really a large leap to assume that….there was always something.
“It’s how far in the cycle do you want to believe it was created.”
See above about Kia’s first false assumption.
Arguing with a creationist about the poverty of their world view is like arguing with a paranoid about how paranoid they are. Both are pointless exercises.
But, I did want to point out the fallacy of saying scientists have faith in what they think are explanations of reality. Scientists are able to say “I don’t know”, which seperates them from creationsts. To liken them, creationists and scienties, is either disingenuous or ignorant. Take your pick.
“Why do the God-less resort to name calling vs. a civil conversation?”
And when will you stop beating your wife, nitwit?
;-)
Astonishing that someone can ask a poisoning the well question like that in a thread where the likes of Boxlock and Jim Johnson are posting.
Thanks for proving the point.
“it is not me judging or calling a fellow brother a fool, you yourself have made the case.”
Ah, the ever dishonest Boxlicker. Lying for Jesus, it’s a Christian virtue.
“Scientists are able to say “I don’t know”, which seperates them from creationsts.”
————
Chuckle… Good one Stephen.
Nobody here has been able to tell me the location of Heaven
===================
Hell if I knew where it was, I wouldn’t be wasting my time reading this crap!
“Therefore, there was always something. It is not really a large leap to assume that….there was always something.”
One more:
There was always something spiritual…GOD, not physical…the universe, the earth, us.
Science studies the physical, they do not study GOD in the spiritual.
Steven,
You only find it pointless to argue with a creationist because every time you have in the past you are like most anyone else here who does:
You have to resort to strawman arguments and other logical fallacies and are unable to simply have a discussion on the subject without making things up like:
“Scientists are able to say “I don’t know”, which seperates them from creationsts.”
or insulting them:
“Arguing with a creationist about the poverty of their world view is like arguing with a paranoid about how paranoid they are. Both are pointless exercises.”
Once you run out of insults and logical fallacies, you don’t have much left.
“There was always something spiritual…GOD, not physical…the universe, the earth, us.”
Wrong again, the Bible you love so much says your god is physical. For someone who likes to quote it it appears you haven’t actually read it.
Good point, Steven. In fact, “we don’t know why…” are exciting words for any scientist. Another important distinction is that nobody in this field closes the door and says “welp, that’s it, we don’t know so no point in looking at it any further…”
Creationists are satisfied to say “oh, it’s too complicated to have come about by chance, so God did it because I’m too lazy to look any further…” But believe me, once you start studying life in detail, seeing how beautifully organisms adapt to their little ecological niches, it really is clever and fascinating. There’s no reason to drop God because of evolution*
*Except in, like, a science classroom
Nathan-three stuffings, by the way. One cornbread/bacon, one italian sasusage and one I’m trying to create a recipe for. Maybe incorporating dried pineapple, smoked ham and mac nuts…it’s in the works.
Creationists can make all of us look like idiots by simply presenting scientific evidence for their creationist myths. All they produce instead is excuses. Have I yet to be proven wrong on this? Nope.
Sigh. . .Am I required to protest a secularized holiday just to defend the First Amendment? You ard free to give thanks to God, and I am free to be thankful to the best instincts of humanity, and to a planet that hasn’t killed us all. It works for me.
Can’t we all get along?
By the way, there were plenty of enemies of religious freedom in Washington’s time, too, while the ink on the document was barely dry, but Jefferson and Madison knew better.
<i<No Thanksgiving proclamations were issued by Thomas Jefferson but James Madison renewed the tradition in 1814, in response to resolutions of Congress, at the close of the War of 1812.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)
Cornbread Bacon?
My mouth is watering. You will have to share that recipie please.
Rage, you go on talking like that and some of these pastors might pull a gun on you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMh2ctz-rFE&NR=1
Sounds REAL good Tara!!!
Hey Boy,
What time are you coming out tomorrow? Do you have to work?
Just wondering
Well now Maggie, if scientists could present scientific evidence proving their evolutionary speculation, there wouldn’t be a debate.
And Maggie. Not everyone who disbelieves common descent theory is a Creationist in the narrow and unflattering terms in which you want to define them. ID supporters want science to follow the evidence where it leads. Instead, if it points to an intelligence, it is rejected. Evolution (common descent) theory is not about science, it is politics in a science wrapper.
“Instead, if it points to an intelligence, it is rejected.”
Please give me an example of this, I am genuinuely curious.
By the way, Outlander, Dr. Michael Behe, the leader of the “ID” movement, accepts that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. Most creationists don’t realize he’s not on the same page as them.
He is misguided, no doubt, but he and the ID movement are not a good fit for Biblical creationists.
Tara,
What about Intelligent Design theory?
I meant, he is misguided, but not on the same level of creationists
Tara,
I do believe that Behe’s stance on Common Ancestry is not that he believes it and accepts it, rather that there is evidence which strongly supports it.
Tara,
NVM… on the Behe thing. Checked my references again.
Nathan,
I think ID, as explained by Behe, ONLY claims that evolution of complex biochemical pathways could not have occurred because of irreducible complexity. Unless I’m mistaken, they have no beef with common descent theory. It’s just a head’s up to outlander whom I suspect is going to post something about blood clotting pathways or other popular ID cut and pastes.
Of course, the ID philosophy is flawed but that’s another thread entirely.
Dr. Behe, Tara, is not “the leader of the ID movement”. He is “a leader” in the movement. Other leaders do not share his view on that point. Of course you would not expect all to walk in lockstep. Behe is a former Darwinist who realized the problem with irreducible complexity and… well let’s just post part of his bio from Wiki.
Behe says he once fully accepted the scientific theory of evolution, but that after reading Evolution: A Theory In Crisis, by Michael Denton, he came to question evolution.[14] Later, Behe came to believe that there was evidence, at a biochemical level, that there were systems that were “irreducibly complex”. These were systems that he thought could not, even in principle, have evolved by natural selection, and thus must have been created by an “intelligent designer,” which he believed to be the only possible alternative explanation for such complex structures.
Unlike William A. Dembski [20] and others in the intelligent design movement, Behe accepts the common descent of species,[21] including that humans descended from other primates, although he states that common descent does not by itself explain the differences between species. He also accepts the scientific consensus on the age of the Earth and the age of the Universe.
So…there is no unified Intelligent Design Philosophy?
Because things like age of the earth and common descent are not little inconsistencies. Having varying beliefs about things so significant is more than “not being in lockstep”.
The main problem with creationism is it is entirely based on faith. That’s fine for those who don’t want to look further. But man’s fundemental thought process is to look further. It may be God created the universe, and man, in seven days around 10,000 years ago, but I seriously doubt it.
To say scientists are denying God by thinking evolution resulted in home sapian as we know him today makes no sense at all. Unless your total thought process revolves around the bible. Then there is no room for discussion. For creationists, the case is indeed closed.
There is no doubt about it Tara. Science overreaches and speculates on origins. Sometimes, science doesn’t, in fact, know when to say, “we don’t know”.
Interesting that, despite all of our scientific brainpower etc… our best directed efforts cannot create life. If “we know” how it all happened that should be a snap.
Yet, we are expected to swallow the concept that life originated and developed through blind chance.
home sapian should read homo sapian . . . must have been a senior moment:-)
I have it on good authority that Ann Coulter’s jaw wasn’t broken- it fell off all by itself when she saw the election results!
Sometimes, science doesn’t, in fact, know when to say, “we don’t know”.
Science says “we don’t know yet”. It doesn’t close doors. Like JM says, it’s constantly searching for answers. You say we should just give up on deciphering how. God of the Gaps. I don’t like thinking of God like this because every time we fill the gap, God gets smaller. And you have to squeeze Him into a tinier and tinier place. That’s not right.
“Interesting that, despite all of our scientific brainpower etc… our best directed efforts cannot create life. If “we know” how it all happened that should be a snap.”
We don’t know how it all happened. And as long as we don’t know how, there will be science. As soon as we find out how everything works right down to the lowest level, there will be no need for scientific inquiry. And that is a depressing thought!
Tara,
“So…there is no unified Intelligent Design Philosophy?”
Of course not; it would take a much greater than human intelligence to design an intelligent design philosophy that resolves the difference between what the IDers believe and the observable laws of nature.
“Yet, we are expected to swallow the concept that life originated and developed through blind chance.”
No one is asking you to do that. The information and evidence is out there if you want to see it yourself.
Look, everything is incredible and mysterious when it’s unfamiliar. Cosmology is incredible and magical to me because I’m not a physicist. And I’ve tried to read their literature and it makes my head hurt. So I can understand how the idea of ALL of this coming from a single seems like nonsense. But it begins to make sense once you start studying it.
But instead of taking my word for it, go out there and start learning!
This just in…(a la CNN) Melamine has been found in 90% of infant formulae manufactured in the US by Abbott Labs, Nestle and Mead Johnson. Industry spokesmen said the levels are minimal and no known reports of illness or death have been reported. However the FDA stated on Oct. 3/08 (Chinese scare)because there is no known safe level of melamine for infants, zero toleralnce is the rule. Funny, this AP release hasn’t been picked up in our media…..or a has anyone seen it?
God of the Gaps?
Where do you get this statement from? It is not something that I believe in. In fact I do not know any Christian that does. God is ‘God’ of everything, not just the ‘gaps’ in human understanding.
Scientists point out that Christians or Creationists claim that any gap in human understanding can be explained by God. Of course, that leaves us with an ever shrinking God if you were to beleive that every scientific advance explained away another little piece of God. I reject that false premise!
There are several accepted (at least by most people) areas where the presence of God is indicated, the need for a designer, the reason people have minds and spiritual experiences. I would ask you, what advancement in science has ever disproved the existance Of God?
Tomorrow, my wife and I will give thanks to the God of Abraham for all of the blessings in our life with our family and friends.
I wish each and everyone of you to have a blessed Thanksgiving!
Read about the melamine, have a grandaughter on formula, very worrisome!
Maybe she should be put on goats milk, anyone have any grandkids fed that?
“I would ask you, what advancement in science has ever disproved the existance Of God?”
Hank,
In the logic class you took in college, do you recall any discussion about “proving a negative”? Just wondering…
“No one is asking you to do that. The information and evidence is out there if you want to see it yourself.
Look, everything is incredible and mysterious when it’s unfamiliar. Cosmology is incredible and magical to me because I’m not a physicist.”
—————-
Well Tara, if “the information and evidence is out there”, why don’t you share it? What I am sure is out there, is more speculation.
You know Tara, my sister in law studied at cosmology school in their 18 month program. And she had no problem with it. So, it can’t be that hard.
What? Oh, that was cosmetology school. Sorry.
“Arguing with a creationist about the poverty of their world view is like arguing with a paranoid about how paranoid they are. Both are pointless exercises.”
Once you run out of insults and logical fallacies, you don’t have much left.
*****
Snicker… Like Nathan ever wants to debate facts. That is a good one, boy. Try to engage his brain he wants to make it about me and to falsely claim I am arguing illogically.
Let me just say, boy, thanks for proving my point.
“I would ask you, what advancement in science has ever disproved the existance Of God?”
It never has. And it never will. It has, however, disproved literal creation.
“There are several accepted (at least by most people) areas where the presence of God is indicated, the need for a designer, the reason people have minds and spiritual experiences.”
It’s difficult and sometimes impossible to speak for fields other than my own (such as medicine or physics or geology), so what are some examples of places in bio that there is a “need” for a designer?
“Well Tara, if “the information and evidence is out there”, why don’t you share it? What I am sure is out there, is more speculation.”
I have done this, many times. I’ve provided several examples of evidence for evolution that I think are particularly compelling, starting with evolution of a green unicellular algae, a prokaryote.
I’ve also shown how speciation can occur without a physical barrier (sympatric), and how there can be a gradient in forms so that the fossil record would show “jumps”.
I’ve posted the article showing evolution of the citric acid in E.coli (a complex biochemical pathway)
Plus a bunch of other stuff.
But I cannot post 4 years worth of ecology and evo-bio on a blog. There’s just no substitute for a good, thick intro ecology textbook. It’s interesting too!
“Thanks for proving the point.”
What point?
“There was always something spiritual…GOD, not physical…the universe, the earth, us.
Science studies the physical, they do not study GOD in the spiritual.”
How can something “spritual” create something “physical” unless it has a physical nature.
You probably don’t realize it, but you are simply playing word games.
Remember that old bumper sticker the twice-born used to slap on their old rusted-out Torinios?
Something like:
The Bibles says it.
I believe it.
That settles it.
That’s what the fundies never seem to understand about science: Nothing in science is ever “settled.”
These little theology vs. science whipsongs are always futile in this forum because the CONs steadfastly refuse to understand what science is, how it works, and always return to that Jack Chick faceless-giant-in-a-throne conception of “God.”
“Well now Maggie, if scientists could present scientific evidence proving their evolutionary speculation, there wouldn’t be a debate.”
Bullsh*t. There is a “debate” (political and popular, not scientific by the way) because the idea of common ancestry is unacceptable to some people with traditional theological beliefs. Such beliefs are not easily influenced by evidence.
“And Maggie. Not everyone who disbelieves common descent theory is a Creationist in the narrow and unflattering terms in which you want to define them. ID supporters want science to follow the evidence where it leads.”
Bullsh*t again. Are you familiar with the Wedge Document (I’ve posted links to this before). ID, like creationism, has nothing whatsoever to do with going “where the evidence leads”.
“Instead, if it points to an intelligence, it is rejected. Evolution (common descent) theory is not about science, it is politics in a science wrapper.”
You do this a lot. You project assumed beliefs and mindsets to people with whom you do not agree. Evolution is not about any any set of political beliefs or opposition to theology. Your assumption that it is I am sure is sincere, but like your belief that ID has equal scientific standing with evolution (common descent) empirically false.
Tara – it’s sort of like trying to teach an entire geology/climatology curriculum.
Here’s a “test” better suited to a blog. ;-)
Turkey Trivia Quiz
http://home.aristotle.net/Thanksgiving/trivia.asp
Happy thanksgiving bloggers! May you realize the abundance that is yours, remember to be thankful, and feel charitable toward those in need.
Tomorrow I will have my third turkey dinner in 8 days. Yummy!
I failed that test miserably! Only got half (10) correct, and guessed on several of those.
And now for something completely different –
How do you suppose Ann Coulter got her jaw broken?
Trying to say PRESIDENT-ELECT Obama.
#
StevenEDavis
Posted November 26, 2008 at 2:55 pm | Permalink
“I would ask you, what advancement in science has ever disproved the existance Of God?”
Hank,
In the logic class you took in college, do you recall any discussion about “proving a negative”? Just wondering…
——————-
I did…
It branches off into several fields…
boolean
set theory
linear progression theory
symbolic logic
#
Agnatha
Posted November 26, 2008 at 3:29 pm | Permalink
“There was always something spiritual…GOD, not physical…the universe, the earth, us.
Science studies the physical, they do not study GOD in the spiritual.”
How can something “spritual” create something “physical” unless it has a physical nature.
You probably don’t realize it, but you are simply playing word games.
==========================
The ‘jawless fish’ hasn’t realized he’s trapped in a giant scrabble game with only the letters ‘q,z,x,v’ available.
Ah, MonkeyHawk, my little buddy,
I hate to break this to ya but I don’t think her jaw is broken. She was just on with Sean Hannity the past half hour and she sounded just fine. She was on live and there was no mention of a broken jaw.
Sorry t ruin your weekend!
hehehe
Re: Regular
DNFTT
My kind of turkey “shoot.”
http://www.southbank-design.co.uk/turkeyshoot/index.htm
Oprah is giving away Christmas Music. Some really good ones! Wonder if she paid royalties? Download yours at:
http://tinyurl.com/6ajtgb
Oooo Aggie calls bullsh*t. Twice! Well that certainly changes everything.
No wait, I guess it doesn’t.
I did notice that you have not presented evidence to disprove my observation that evolutionary/common descent theory is mostly informed speculation by scientists. You didn’t, because it isn’t available.
Regarding the “wedge document”, it is hardly a secret. As far as I know, it has always been posted at discovery.org. Aggie, you’re probably not a football man if I’m any judge, but if you don’t have a game plan, but probably won’t win.
And finally, if you don’t think that this is mostly political, and part of the culture war, well, I can’t help the blind to see.
“It is idiocy to believe that all the complexity of the universe happened as a result of chaos.”
Okay, then, from what did the chaos evolve, ’cause I’m sure seeing it all around me. And whose job is it to name turtles, anyway (Eileanchelys Waldmani). I’m sure the turtles are looking for this guy.
“It is idiocy to believe that all the complexity of the universe happened as a result of chaos.”
Okay, then, from what did the chaos evolve, ’cause I’m sure seeing it all around me. And whose job is it to name turtles, anyway (Eileanchelys Waldmani). I’m sure the turtles are looking for this guy.
“I did…
“It branches off into several fields…
“boolean
set theory
linear progression theory
symbolic logic.”
As usual, the Asperger’s poster James McCluer makes things much more complicated than they need to be. BIG SURPRISE there.
Ted Kaczynski and Bill Gates were both suspected of suffering from this autism spectrum disorder. I find it really strange that James has enough empathy to lodge accusations that make some degree of sense. I have met the man, I do not fear him, nor do I pity him.
“hate to break this to ya but I don’t think her jaw is broken. She was just on with Sean Hannity the past half hour and she sounded just fine. She was on live and there was no mention of a broken jaw.”
heh HEH!
Dolt. That was a tape from over like two weeks ago.
Let’s see if I can confirm Annie will be enoying her turkey in a straw…
Don’t know if it’s true. But she deifinitely was not live today.
Hey Nathan,
Have you met James, yet?
Color me surprised if you have!
The Price family = really ugly hypocrites…
“I did notice that you have not presented evidence to disprove my observation that evolutionary/common descent theory is mostly informed speculation by scientists. You didn’t, because it isn’t available.”
I have before (note marathon discussions with Dr. Schooley). Also, Tara has provided plenty of evidence on this blog. I have noticed that you didn’t bother to respond when I have, and you tend to respond with ill informed, content free snarkiness to people like Tara when you have bothered to respond. I don’t have the time to go into a long post tonight, but here are a couple of examples:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18822117?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
On this abstract, a genetic sequence that creates a particular kind of “pseudogenetic” copy exists in humans and chimps, but not in other primates, which is consistent with other evidence (similarities in blood proteins, genetic and chromosomal evidence) that indicates a more recent common ancestor for humans and chimps (and bonobos) than it does for other apes like orangutans. There are literally hundreds of examples of this kind of research.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/hominids2_big.jpg
The second is a set of pictures, chimpanzee skull on the top left, modern human skull on the bottom right. The rest are fossil skulls of various hominids. The interesting thing is, the older the fossils get, they are more similar to the chimpanzee skull in many respects, but NOT ALL. As one would expect, there is confusion and argument about older fossils and whether they are closer to the hominid or the chimpanzee/bonobo or even gorilla clade. And, when one stops and thinks about it, this is what one would expect. Not all of the things that distinguish the humans from other apes would be acquired characteristics, some of them would be “primitive”, and some of the things that would distinguish a chimpanzee from a human would be traits acquired in the chimpanzee line after a human/chimp split.
One last comment about the skull sequence, various IDists and creationist authors have definitively identified some of the above fossil as ape and as human. They aren’t even close to one another as to how they identify each.
And finally, to wrap this up. You have made comments before that indicate that you believe that the motivations of those people who argue for evolution, common descent, is somehow motivated by opposition to theological beliefs. This is again an example of projection, and in fact could not be further from the truth. People who study evolution are motivated by interest in evolution, not by trying to upset the apple cart of theologians or those with conservative religious beliefs (particularly of the Abrahamic sort).
“Regarding the “wedge document”, it is hardly a secret. As far as I know, it has always been posted at discovery.org. Aggie, you’re probably not a football man if I’m any judge, but if you don’t have a game plan, but probably won’t win.”
You’d be wrong. Again. But then, I am already confident, with your tendancy to to project motivations to those with whom you disagree and to make resulting false assumptions, I am hardly surprised at this point. Once again, in science, you are trying to develop a close as possible description to reality, and are trying to compensate for human bias and perception in doing so. When an organization develops a document that outlines a procedure describing PR and political strategies to promote a particular ideological viewpoint, rather than expressing scientific skepticism, it is not science. When the authors claim that certain viewpoints are “devestating” to “objective moral standards”, they are saying that the important thing about these viewpoints is not whether they are true, but whether they are “good” or “bad”. Truth and reality are clearly secondary ideology. So, clearly, is science. That’s why the revelation of the wedge document was devestating to any fair minded person it was revealed to, because the authors baldly state, best science is no longer important, it is the assumed “moral implications” (which, by the way, are offensive bullsh*t to myself and a lot of people who try to live their lives in consideration of others).
I am not surprised that you see nothing wrong with the Wedge Document, that you see it as a “strategy”. What you probably do not see is how unflatteringly that perception reflects on you. The practice of science is not important to you. The honesty of the process is not important to you. The consistency of the practice of science with your worldview is what is important to you.
“Truth and reality are clearly secondary ideology.”
Should be:
“Truth and reality are clearly secondary to ideology.”
Shoulda looked first there Hank.
It seems Monkeyhawk was correct.
From one of MANY sources….
”
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Ann Coulter may be completely silenced, at least for a while.
If the New York Post’s Page Six report is true, Coulter broke her jaw and her mouth is wired shut:
WE HEAR…THAT although we didn’t think it would be possible to silence Ann Coulter, the leggy reaction- ary broke her jaw and the mouth that roared has been wired shut.
Heh HEH. Turkey soup and a note pad for Annie!!
“And finally, if you don’t think that this is mostly political, and part of the culture war, well, I can’t help the blind to see.”
Outlander, you presume to know what you are talking about. You are presuming to know the motivations of people like myself who defend mainstream scientific thought that is overwhelmingly supported by evidence. There is NO IDENTYING ideology that unites people who support mainstream scientific thought except for a belief in the principles of best scientific practice. Your assumptions to the contrary is a false construct of your own mind, probably poisoned by people like Phillip Johnson. There is no unity in political or religious ideology, period. Again, you smugly project your presumed knowledge of the motivations of others into a discussion, not realizing that they are projections that have nothing in common with reality.
Ann Coulter Silenced by Badly Broken Jaw
Ann Coulter, the outspoken conservative writer seen all across American television leading up to the 2008 Presidential Election, has been forced to keep quiet after she took a fall last month. In the fall, Coulter sustained injuries that have required that her jaw be wired shut.
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Hmmmm……
Lots of stuff about Ann Coulter’s broken jaw, but nothing from the MSM.
I had a little fun with this this morning but now I’m sorry for it and I apologize.
Conservatives didn’t laugh when Ted Kennedy was diagnosed with brain cancer.
Outlander whines:
“Well now Maggie, if scientists could present scientific evidence proving their evolutionary speculation, there wouldn’t be a debate.”
First there is a post complaining about my constant posts about scientific evidence for evolution, now there is a post claiming I don’t present any. Oh well, the level of intellectual curiosity presented by creationists is typically consistent. Try making the effort and read one of the posts if you need some science.
If Ms. Coulter loses weight while her jaw is wired shut, will her adam’s apple be even more distinct?
A broken jaw isn’t life threatening, it only makes talking difficult — I still see that as karma! ;-) Well-deserved karma! Although I agree with PreD — her fingers work and she can still type. I would have preferred her completely silenced.
Please, Linda, Ann C. is just not that important. She can and should be ignored.
Thanks for the real important stuff you do…
Its just too bad her fingers didn’t get wired to her jaw too.
It will probably mess up her teeth though.
Perhaps she had plastic surgery?
I would have thought Annie had one of those jaws that unhinge. You know, like some other snakes.
“Conservatives didn’t laugh when Ted Kennedy was diagnosed with brain cancer.”
Well, most didn’t. I suspect that Ann Coulter was not one of the people who displayed such forebearance.
But I have found no evidence that Ann Coulter’s jaw has been wired shut. I suspected a rat when there was no story about it, and the source in the blog did not seem to have any idea how Ann Coulter got her presumed injuries.
Your apology shows class.
Aw, c’mon, Steven. I know she can and should be ignored, but she is so full of it. if anyone deserves… OK, I’ll try. ;-)
Everything I have seen goes back to the rumor page of the New York Post. Until a major outlet independently reports it, rather than second hand through the post or even third hand through the Huffington Post, I would be skeptical of the karmic story.
“Content free snarkiness. Hmmm…”
So here we have several paragraphs touting linked evidence. None of which seal the deal, or we would not be having this conversation. And I will bet you a dollar to a donut that the “evidence” can be interpreted completely differently with a different conclusion or world view in mind. For instance, the physical similarity in structure between man and other homonids is interpreted by Darwinists as evidence of common ancestry. Whereas, with a different world view, it is interpreted as evidence of a common intelligent designer.
And despite all of the evidence and studies, evolution (common descent theory) breaks down when confronted with the problem of irreducible complexity. Plus the fact that there is no natural mechanism for the creation of new complex genetic information necessary for increasingly complex life forms.
And Aggie, I do not presume to know or care about your motivations. The battle is at a higher level. And at that level the described motivations do exist, admittedly. We are mere spectators, or more correctly fans. Yes, fans.
Science claims for its own the realm of origins. It claims the truth but cannot prove it. It has problems that it cannot explain away. No problem though, naturalism is it’s own religion. And like most religions, its practitioners have faith that overcomes.
Darwinism will ultimately fail. Because it is not the truth.
“Obama has got to stop the stuttering when he speaks or it’s going to drive me nuts.” Rush Limbaugh.
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May Obama stutter until El Dopo ends up in a nut house. Wait! Isn’t that what the EIB network is?
Ann’s got another book coming out. This one titled, “A’mmm fooo haut!”
Science claims for its own the realm of origins. It claims the truth but cannot prove it. It has problems that it cannot explain away. No problem though, naturalism is it’s own religion. And like most religions, its practitioners have faith that overcomes.
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Science does not claim truth, but does claim theory. Big difference. After all, gravity is still just a theory. We know it’s there, but we do not know the mechanism of it. We can predict specific gravity for certain densities, but cannot explain why it works. Even the speed of light has been shown to be NOT absolute.
To many times, creationist insist science is at odds with religion, but in many ways, it’s the other way around: religion many times condemns science, when it is science that really proves the existence of God, if the fundamentalists would look deeper than their own beliefs. Remember, it was the religious who used to torture people for believing the sun was not the center on the universe. Also, the world really is round . . . big surprise there, what? It was way back when. How’d we figure that one out? Oh, ya . . . science.
Albert Einstein said, “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” That’s more true today then ever.
“So here we have several paragraphs touting linked evidence. None of which seal the deal, or we would not be having this conversation. ”
Nonsense. “Having this conversation” has nothing to do with the quality of the evidence, and more to do with the obstinance of people like you. And once again, you demonstrate how quality of evidence is unimportant to you, presumed “world view” is.
To wit:
“And I will bet you a dollar to a donut that the ‘evidence’ can be interpreted completely differently with a different conclusion or world view in mind.”
And here it is. Never mind what evidence actually shows, evidence is something that can be interprested the way one wants to based on someone having “a different (clearly pre-determined) conclusion or workd view in mind”. And you have had the nerve to accuse those who don’t share your world view (such as non believers) of relativism.
“For instance, the physical similarity in structure between man and other homonids is interpreted by Darwinists as evidence of common ancestry. Whereas, with a different world view, it is interpreted as evidence of a common intelligent designer.”
A common intelligent designer who provides the same non-functional trait in two different species. Riiiight. Also, the same common intelligent designer that plants evidence of identical retroviral infections that, when seen in human lines, is considered inherited evidence of a common ancestor’s infection. Again, you presume that those who disagree with you try to torture the evidence to fit into their pre-determined world view. You project your motives onto others. That’s your shortcoming, not mine.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050328174826.htm
“And despite all of the evidence and studies, evolution (common descent theory) breaks down when confronted with the problem of irreducible complexity. Plus the fact that there is no natural mechanism for the creation of new complex genetic information necessary for increasingly complex life forms.”
Outlander, you simply don’t know what you are talking about here. Period.
http://www.truveo.com/Irreducible-Complexity-Debunked/id/1569314359
But then, reality is unimportant to you. And reality, not belief, is what is ultimately true. You equate your world view with truth. You have clearly indicated this yet again. Not all of us think that way.
And saying and believing it doesn’t make it so.
“After all, gravity is still just a theory. We know it’s there, but we do not know the mechanism of it.”
Watch it JMW:
Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New ‘Intelligent Falling’ Theory
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512?issue=4228&special=2005
Perhaps she had plastic surgery?
To have her Adam’s apple removed?
Ok, I’ll give it another shot.
We have a technique called sequencing. We can read the letters of DNA in a certain segment of an organism (so we end up with a long list of letters like aatgccgagcc) , and then use lots of computer power and complex calculations to make a picture showing the differences in the sequence. Based on this, we can determine how close of a relationship one organism has with another. Humans and chimps have more similarity in their sequences than humans and mice, meaning only a few letters of the seuqence are different. But humans and mice have more similar sequences than humans and plants, which might not have any homologous (found in the same place in both organisms).
(I apologize if that sounded condescending at all, I’m just trying to keep it simple.)
After many years of sequencing many different organisms, we now have this giant database of sequences all kinds of organsims in many different areas of the genome of that organism. So, you can compare whatever sequence you get to other organsims’ sequence at that location, and make that picture called a “phylogenetic tree”.
Next post: Evolution of green algae
There are two types of cells: prokaryotic and eukaryotic. They are very, very different. To say that a eukarytic cell evolved from a prokaryotic one is a HUGE claim. That’s BIGGER than saying humans evolved from chimps or birds evolved from dinosaurs.
However, we have evidence that the first green algae evolved from a prokaryote. We hypothesized that a long time ago, a cell “engulfed” another cell (a prokaryote called a cyanobacteria) by a process called phagocytosis. Then the cyano transferred some of its DNA to the host cell and they lived together and divided together.
So now, a plant (or alga) have plastids. These plastids used to be cyanobacteria.
But wait, Miss Smarty pants! We weren’t THERE when this happened. How do we know? All we can do is GUESS, right?
Nope, we can look at evidence.
The evidence for this is the structures inside plastids look just like the structures inside cyanobacteria we find today. And the plastid has an extra membrane, like we would expect on a prokaryotic cell. AND, when we sequence the circular DNA inside the plastid and compare it to the database, it’s really, really similar to cyanobacteria!
Conclusion: the structures inside plants used to be free living cells. These simple cells evolved into complex cells we see today in plants and algae. The evidence for this is the physical structure of the organelles, the pigments, and the DNA sequences.
good night; good luck; god bless —-
whatever you conceive god to be!!
blessings ALL!!
blessings on a Happy Thanksgiving!!
so mote it be!!
Tara,
Bless you. The truth (with a small “t”) is rare around here.
Do your best. Some of us will cheer you on…
Steven — AMEN to that!!
Outlander whines:
“And despite all of the evidence and studies, evolution (common descent theory) breaks down when confronted with the problem of irreducible complexity.”
The problem with irreducible complexity? You mean Behe’s refuted hypothesis? How is something that has been disproved a problem for the irrefutable fact of evolution?
Tara – I defy you (or anyone else) to EXPLAIN gravity. In words containing no more than two syllables.
What, no response from the Price Family, if they have met James McCluer?
Now, that surprises me…
Such good Christians, that family is…
If I was inclined to post “he, he, he’s” I would here…
I drove by James’s house today. He was there alone, not a Price in sight. Sad, really sad…