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239 Comments
Yup, more science about the irrefutable fact of evolution.
The Cambrian as an evolutionary exemplar
I’ve been reading Valentine’s On the Origin of Phyla lately, and I have to tell you, it’s a hard slog. This is one of those extremely information-dense science texts that rather gracelessly hammers you with the data and difficult concepts on page after page. I am convinced that James W. Valentine is ten times smarter than I am and knows ten thousand times as much, and it’s a struggle to squeeze that volume of knowledge into my miniscule brain pan.
One thing I would like to greatly condense and simplify is his discussion of the Cambrian ‘explosion’. Misinterpretation of the Cambrian is one of the many prongs of the creationist assault on science; both old school Biblical creationists and the new stealth creationists of the ID movement have seized upon it as evidence of an abrupt creation—that a Designer poofed the precursors to all modern forms into existence suddenly, and without precursors, and that this observation contradicts evolutionary theory.
It doesn’t. Valentine has an excellent diagram that shows how wrong the creationists are.
That diagram and more at:
http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/the_cambrian_as_an_evolutionary_exemplar/
You have too much time, maggotpunk: This should take care of that.
http://thisissand.com/
How much more don’t we know about this character Obama since he refuses to release most requested information about himself.
AP: Obama aunt from Kenya living in US illegally
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D945TEE01&show_article=1
Yet this same illegal alien living in public housing DONATED $260 TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN…
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Onyango&fname=Zeituni&search=Search
Boxlock your rascist fascist crap is over. Get ready to be moved.
Ha!
The question I ask is why isn’t Obama taking care of his own, but allows her to live in public housing?
“Obama’s Aunt Reportedly Living Illegally in Boston
The Illinois senator’s aunt has been residing in Boston public housing since her request for asylum was denied four years ago.
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama’s aunt, a Kenyan woman who has been quietly living in public housing in Boston, is in the United States illegally after an immigration judge rejected her request for asylum four years ago, The Associated Press has learned.
Zeituni Onyango, 56, referred to as “Aunti Zeituni” in Obama’s memoir, was instructed to leave the United States by a U.S. immigration judge who denied her asylum request, a person familiar with the matter told the AP late Friday. This person spoke on condition of anonymity because no one was authorized to discuss Onyango’s case.
Information about the deportation case was disclosed and confirmed by two separate sources, one of them a federal law enforcment official. The information they made available is known to officials in the federal government, but the AP could not establish whether anyone at a political level in the Bush administration or in the McCain campaign had been involved in its release.
Onyango’s refusal to leave the country would represent an administrative, non-criminal violation of U.S. immigration law, meaning such cases are handled outside the criminal court system. Estimates vary, but many experts believe there are more than 10 million such immigrants in the United States.
The AP could not reach Onyango immediately for comment. No one answered the telephone number listed in her name late Friday. It was unclear why her request for asylum was rejected in 2004.
Onyango is not a relative whom Obama has discussed in campaign appearances and, unlike Obama’s father and grandmother, is not someone who has been part of the public discussion about his personal life.
A spokeswoman for U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, Kelly Nantel, said the government does not comment on an individual’s citizenship status or immigration case.
Onyango’s case — coming to light just days before the presidential election — led to an unusual nationwide directive within Immigrations and Customs Enforcement requiring any deportations prior to Tuesday’s election to be approved at least at the level of ICE regional directors, the U.S. law enforcement official told the AP.
The unusual directive suggests that the Bush administration is sensitive to the political implications of Onyango’s case coming to light so close to the election.
One of the sources acknowledged he was not a supporter of Obama or John McCain and said he has no plans to vote on Tuesday. He said that was not a motive for releasing the information.
Kenya is in eastern Africa between Somalia and Tanzania. The country has been fractured in violence in recent years, including a period of two months of bloodshed after December 2007 that killed 1,500 people.
The disclosure about Onyango came just one day after Obama’s presidential campaign confirmed to the Times of London that Onyango, who has lived quietly in public housing in South Boston for five years, was Obama’s half aunt on his father’s side.
It was not immediately clear how Onyango might have qualified for public housing with a standing deportation order.
Obama Aunt Found Living in Boston Public Housing
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/01/barack-obamas-kenyan-aunt-living-illegally-boston/“
While this may not be a smoking gun, it sure begs to have some questions answered as to voter fraud in Ohio in 2004. And this may be real voter fraud, subject to federal law, not turning in all registration cards,even stupid registration cards, which is required by federal law.
======================================================
Documents reveal how Ohio routed 2004 voting data through company that hosted external Bush Administration email accounts:
Newly obtained computer schematics provide further detail of how electronic voting data was routed during the 2004 election from Ohio’s Secretary of State’s office through a partisan Tennessee web hosting company.
A network security expert with high-level US government clearances, who is also a former McCain delegate, says the documents – server schematics which trace the architecture created for Ohio’s then-Republican Secretary of State and state election chief Kenneth Blackwell – raise troubling questions about the security of electronic voting and the integrity of the 2004 presidential election results.
The flow chart shows how voting information was transferred from Ohio to SmarTech Inc., a Chattanooga Tennessee IT company known for its close association with the Republican Party, before the 2004 election results were displayed online.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Documents_reveal_how_Ohio_routed_2004_1031.html
Yo, American, are you aware of the fact we are all descended from a tribe in Africa, proven by genetic markers? Sending any money to your black brothers and sisters to help them through hard times? Just asking:-)
I see Maggotpunk is still on his “irrefutable fact” mantra.
Nevermind the “fact” that it is rather unscientific for him to make such a claim.
Science is about testing and questioning it’s self.
When you start preaching Evolution as “irrefutable fact” you are no better than those you loath who claim they believe in God and Creation.
Democrats and the Lib News Media did not mentioned how much of your money($700,000) was spent in Germany when Obama went over there to save the world. Yet they talk about the Republicans spending money on Palin’s clothes which will be given back to charties. Get real.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/31/obama-spent-nearly-700000-for-stage-lights-in-berl/
Talk to the hand george, talk to the hand.
But evolution is a fact. Things are evolving all around us all the time. The word “evolve” should be switched with “change.” Everything changes. Men, dogs, cats, rocks, mountains, clouds, air, the planet, the sun, the moon, you, me.
But not Mr. Bush.
Will now, we have all read about Obama’s aunt in Boston, come to find out she is an illegal. I wonder if O knew that.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94652UO0&show_article=1
Under Obama my taxes would be cut $1500…under McCain only $300.
Independent analyses of the presidential candidates’ tax proposals show that those who make less than $250,000 a year would not see their taxes raised under Senator Barack Obama’s plans. Further, Mr. Obama would generally cut taxes more than Senator John McCain would for households with incomes less than $100,000 a year.
Election Guide | More Politics NewsMr. McCain would cut taxes generally on par with Mr. Obama for those making $100,000 to $250,000 a year, the analyses found, but those making $250,000 a year and above would typically pay less in taxes under Mr. McCain
With the Washington Post losing money along with the NY Times, I wonder where the lib Wichita Eagle will get their biased news articles. They are not down and out yet but on their way. Of course business are not supposed to make dirty profits.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/31/AR2008103101021_pf.html
#
Nathaniel
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:58 am | Permalink
When you start preaching Evolution as “irrefutable fact” you are no better than those you loath who claim they believe in God and Creation.
========================================================
Huh???? So those who claim they believe in God and creation are incorrect in their beliefs? Or there is no difference between those who believe in evolution and those who believe in creationism? Coffee. Nathan, you need more coffee. Hank, fix a strong cup for the boy:-)
#
mxyzptlk
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:16 am | Permalink
Talk to the hand george, talk to the hand.
=========================================================
He can’t: it’s occupied:-)
Obama’s aunt, illegally in the country and living in public housing.
Boy if THAT don’t tell you Obama is a socialist I don’t know what will.
I don’t want to take care of my aunt, I want the Guvment, with taxpayer money to do it.
Go ahead, ask me if there will be a shocked look on my face if we find out she was able to vote on Tuesday.
mxyzptlk Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:18 am |
“Under Obama my taxes would be cut $1500…under McCain only $300.”
And who’s got the “me first attitude”, Hypocrite!
mxyzptlk
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:18 am | Permalink
Under Obama my taxes would be cut $1500…under McCain only $300.
And those who own businesses who make more than 250K, WHO will pay those extra taxes???
Say it with me, thats right… THE CONSUMER of his products.
AND, if corporation taxes are raised also, then what will he do?
Lay off persons
Raise prices even more
Start looking for cheaper ways of running his business, maybe mexico, maybe china.
THEN WHAT?
The rest of us get to PAY for those laid off workers.
Obama talks about spreading the wealth according to this report he sure doesn’t give much to charities.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/obama_forgot_to_spread_his_own.html
I see NO ONE has yet told me how obama is gonna bring back jobs to the US, from last week.
I see NO ONE has yet told me how obama is gonna bring back jobs to the US, from last week.
“generaston” whines –
“…NO ONE has yet told me how obama is gonna bring back jobs to the US…”
Here’s a start, “generaston.” In one word:
Infrastructure.
Remember that bridge that collapsed up in the Twin Cities last year? Think that’s the only bridge on the brink of collapse?
How do you suppose we could send bridge repair and rebuilding to 9-year-old slave laborers chained to a work bench in China?
Sewer systems. Water systems. Bridges. Highways. High-speed rail….
There’s a lot of job potential there. And none of them can be shipped overseas.
JM…if any of those ‘brothers and sisters’ in Africa were my immediate family, I would send them money. Get off your high horse and admit that the messiah talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk.
#
generaston
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:46 am | Permalink
I see NO ONE has yet told me how obama is gonna bring back jobs to the US, from last week.
======================================================
5 million jobs created in this country by a massive program to bring energy independence to the United States. There, I told you.
John McCain’s job plan:
george Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:38 am |
“Obama talks about spreading the wealth according to this report he sure doesn’t give much to charities.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/obama_forgot_to_spread_his_own.html
Wow….thanks george, another example of how much of a lying hypocrite Obama is.
I see mx is up to his usual immaturity this morning. A reasonable question was asked about the expense of the messiah in going overseas…and mx comes up with the grade school ‘talk to the hand’ line.
In other words, it is not permissable to question the messiah’s personal expenses, but it is open season on Palin.
#
Raptor
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
JM…if any of those ‘brothers and sisters’ in Africa were my immediate family, I would send them money. Get off your high horse and admit that the messiah talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk.
=======================================================
You missed the point, Raptor. Do you keep in touch with every relative, regardless of who and where they are? Are you sending money to any of them?
No “high horse” here; just common sense and reality.
#
Raptor
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:25 am | Permalink
I see mx is up to his usual immaturity this morning. A reasonable question was asked about the expense of the messiah in going overseas…and mx comes up with the grade school ‘talk to the hand’ line.
In other words, it is not permissable to question the messiah’s personal expenses, but it is open season on Palin.
=====================================================
Any “reasonable” question wouldn’t start with “asked about the expense of the messiah in going overseas…”
A “reasonable” question would include Obama, not messiah. Regardless of your thinking, if it can be called that, Obama is not a/the messiah, and has never claimed to be one.
OPRAH SEES OWN PRESIDENTIAL VOTE DROPPED BY TOUCH-SCREEN VOTING MACHINE
‘I went back to check it, it had not recorded my presidential vote!’, Says Terrified, Potentially Disenfranchised Queen of Television…
“When I voted yesterday electronically, the first vote that you vote for on the ballot is the presidential candidate. It was my first time doing electronic, so I didn’t mark the X strong enough, or I held down too long. Because then when I went back to check it, it had not recorded my presidential vote,” she said.
She then simulated her meltdown, shaking and breathing heavily while stuttering out the words, “It didn’t record my presidential vote.”
******
Someday . . . a voting machine will flip a Republican vote to a Democratic one or not record a Republican vote.
Strange how it never happens though, isn’t it.
Voting machines make a random series of errors that always mean more votes for Republicans and fewer for Dems.
Yup, nothing to see here . . .
Raptor, the PUBLIC made Palin’s clothes an issue.
The press reported both expenditures and the public was more interested in the Saks shopping spree than they were what it cost Obama to go overseas.
Palin has made herself a “media diva” and sometimes you get good press sometimes bad. What sells advertising is what gets played.
DUH.
Ahhh..but one of his most ardent supporters, Louis Farrakhan and his nation of Islam, refers to Obama as the messiah.
Nice dodge..care to answer the question with something other than ‘talk to the hand’? Taxpayer money was spent on protecting the messiah overseas, political party funds were spent on Palin’s wardrobe. Yet, all mx can say is ‘talk to the hand’
Typical response.
Oh mx,..you do have a response that isn’t said in 3rd grade every day? Amazing…
AWWW, so thats it. Green jobs, so obama is NOT bringing jobs “back” he is simply using taxpayer money to give jobs. Got it NOT private sector, but taxpayer based, guvment jobs.
Not lowering the corporate tax, making the US friendly to businesses.
Not reducing regulation on businesses to make the US friendly to business.
NOPE raise taxes and let the guvment give the jobs.
Nathan the Disingenous says, “science is about testing and questioning it’s [b]SIC[/b] self.”
Okay, fine.
Let’s test the principle of gravity.
I’ll hold a sledgehammer over your head and let go.
We can test to see if it falls . . .
Oops, wrong html code. Correction: “science is about testing and questioning it’s SIC self.”
The guvment should give me:
A job (but only if I want one)
A house
A healthcare plan
A car
I don’t care who has to pay for it, the guvment should give to me.
Gener–
Obama can create jobs here simply by stopping the CON tax breaks that encourage companies to off shore work.
Gener–
I’ve gotten more free money from W. than from any other president.
He gave my wife and I 1200 as soon as he took office as my share of the “surplus” (hahahaha!).
Then he gave us another 1200 as an “economic stimulus package” because his economic plans had driven the economy into the toilet.
We now have a 10 TRILLION (that’s 10 with 12 zeros after it) dollar national debt, just about DOUBLE from when Worst. President. Ever. took office.
Green jobs that include rebuilding the automobile industry to produce new fuel efficient and alternative power cars that will make the US #1 in the world again.
Not that it matters, because generaston just wants to argue and not help with solutions.
So, yeah, thanks to W.’s handouts, I could have bought a used car paid for by the government.
I heard Obama say yesterday that one priority would be our electrical grid. Not just to ensure power is delivered but also to ensure new ways of generating power is compatible with the delivery system.
Here’s a good article on some of his plans for improving America’s infrastructure and what he calls a “smart grid.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/21/obama-summit-pressing-for-a-power-grid-overhaul/
It just dawned on me who “generaston” is . . . that guy from Washington State who pops in from time to time to spout CONventional wisdom.
Weren’t you selling a POS Oldsmobile or something on line a while back?
Maybe somebody bought it with their free Bush money from the guvermint.
Linda–
This is exactly what KS needs. Right now, we’re one of the few states that provides very bad “net metering” incentives for energy produced at home from solar cells or wind power.
Ideally, one could sell (or bank credits) electricity back to the company for about the same price as one buys it for.
In Kansas, you can’t. The price you sell is far less. Also, WESTAR limits the amount of electricity you can sell back to them.
They are complying with the Federal law of 2005, but just barely.
BAGHDAD – Iraq has earmarked some $15 billion — nearly 25 percent of its 2009 draft budget — to help rebuild the country’s crumbling infrastructure, energy and oil facilities, the finance minister said Saturday.
___________________________________________
McCain would have to cross THAT off their budget! Read his lips…”no earmarks”.
Wow, mxy–
Imagine a gov’t that uses taxes to benefit its people instead of making the rich richer.
Maybe we should invite them to impose regime change on us . . .
At election time, when pondering the many undoubtedly false promises of those trying to buy votes, these works by Rev. William J. H. Boetcker, who lectured around the United States about industrial relations at the turn of the twentieth century, should be remembered.
You cannot bring prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
I never seems to change does it?
We still have those too stupid to understand this.
as usual, capn is a “little” over the top with his comments…:
“Imagine a gov’t that uses taxes to benefit its people instead of making the rich richer”
capn conveniently “forgets” things like a multibillion dollar food stamp program; federal housing programs; Medicare; highways; FDA inspections of food; FAA protecting air travel; homeland security screening airline passengers; Secret Service investigating fraud; CDC; etc., etc., etc.
How many thousand programs are there that benefits the people of this country that capn wants to pretend don’t exist?
Peggy Noonan
The case for Barack Obama, in broad strokes:
He has within him the possibility to change the direction and tone of American foreign policy, which need changing; his rise will serve as a practical rebuke to the past five years, which need rebuking; his victory would provide a fresh start in a nation in which a fresh start would come as a national relief. He climbed steep stairs, born off the continent with no father to guide, a dreamy, abandoning mother, mixed race, no connections. He rose with guts and gifts. He is steady, calm, and, in terms of the execution of his political ascent, still the primary and almost only area in which his executive abilities can be discerned, he shows good judgment in terms of whom to hire and consult, what steps to take and moves to make. We witnessed from him this year something unique in American politics: He took down a political machine without raising his voice.
A great moment: When the press was hitting hard on the pregnancy of Sarah Palin’s 17-year-old daughter, he did not respond with a politically shrewd “I have no comment,” or “We shouldn’t judge.” Instead he said, “My mother had me when she was 18,” which shamed the press and others into silence. He showed grace when he didn’t have to.
There is something else. On Feb. 5, Super Tuesday, Mr. Obama won the Alabama primary with 56% to Hillary Clinton’s 42%. That evening, a friend watched the victory speech on TV in his suburban den. His 10-year-old daughter walked in, saw on the screen “Obama Wins” and “Alabama.” She said, “Daddy, we saw a documentary on Martin Luther King Day in school.” She said, “That’s where they used the hoses.” Suddenly my friend saw it new. Birmingham, 1963, and the water hoses used against the civil rights demonstrators. And now look, the black man thanking Alabama for his victory.
This means nothing? This means a great deal.
He took down a political machine without raising his voice.
Nathaniel posted November 1, 2008 at 7:58 am
Science is about testing and questioning it’s self.
—————–
Nathaniel actually believes that science is about lies from non-scientists, like Avery and Milloy.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Dennis_Avery
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy
A great moment: When the press was hitting hard on the pregnancy of Sarah Palin’s 17-year-old daughter, he did not respond with a politically shrewd “I have no comment,” or “We shouldn’t judge.” Instead he said, “My mother had me when she was 18,” which shamed the press and others into silence. He showed grace when he didn’t have to.
Raptor posted November 1, 2008 at 10:48 am
as usual, capn is a “little” over the top with his comments…:
“Imagine a gov’t that uses taxes to benefit its people instead of making the rich richer”
—————–
Raptor,
Was McCain a “little” over the top when he opposed the temporary tax cuts to the “rich”, that Obama wants to roll back?
“There’s one big difference between me and the others – I won’t take every last dime of the surplus and spend it on tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy.” [McCain campaign commercial, January 2000]
“I am disappointed that the Senate Finance Committee preferred instead to cut the top tax rate of 39.6% to 36%, thereby granting generous tax relief to the wealthiest individuals of our country at the expense of lower- and middle-income American taxpayers.” [McCain Senate floor statement, May 21, 2001]
“But when you look at the percentage of the tax cuts that – as the previous tax cuts – that go to the wealthiest Americans, you will find that the bulk of it, again, goes to wealthiest Americans.” [NBC’s “Today,” Jan. 7, 2003]
“So let me get this straight. Millionaire Obama doesn’t use his wealth to help his poor illegal alien Aunt get out of public housing, but if I complain about Obama wanting to raise my taxes to ’spread the wealth around’ I’m the selfish one?”
Exactly.
Meanwhile, the AP tries to downplay Aunti’s deportation evasion and defiance of a judicial ruling.
Undisclosed internet blog.
Cosmos…I can just use mh’s logic when asked about obama’s flip flop on public funding of his campaign.. he changed his mind.
Your attack on mccain does nothing to disprove my refutation of capn’s denial of a plethora of public services provided by the us government.
Members of the network.
Check your recent email for important information today.
CapnAmerica,
Figuring that gravity is a law vs Evolution being a theory, you can’t even get that comparison correct.
I have no doubt that if you drop something that gravity will effect it bringing it down.
When you start trying to tell me that all life evolved from some “assumed” life then I question the validity of such a claim.
That is not quite as provable let alone testable as Gravity is.
Raptor,
McCain changed his mind?
So McCain decided that he was NOT “disappointed that the Senate Finance Committee preferred instead to cut the top tax rate of 39.6% to 36%, thereby granting generous tax relief to the wealthiest individuals of our country at the expense of lower- and middle-income American taxpayers.” [McCain Senate floor statement, May 21, 2001]?
Okay . . .
“He took down a political machine without raising his voice.”
—
One down, one to go. By Tuesday night we’ll know if he took both down. ;-)
mxyzptlk,
Thank you for the Peggy Noonan column upthread — she sums it up very well.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/11/open-thread-111-2/#comment-460667
Dear Aunti Zeituni,
As President of the USKKKA, I must ensure you are deported from this country immediately.
Please pack your bags and a Limo will be there to pick you up at 5 pm this afternoon.
Sorry Aunti, but like Grandma, I have to throw you under the bus for political expediency. I will miss you Aunti Zeituni, but you must return to Kenya today.
I will come to visit you and my brother soon. Perhaps you can share the same shack together.
I Hope all turns out well for you. I know this is a big Change in your life, but please remember how much I love you and care for you,
Your loving Nephew,
Barack
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/01/barack-obamas-kenyan-aunt-living-illegally-boston/
Obama Says He Didn’t Know Aunt’s Illegal Status
The Illinois senator’s aunt has been residing in Boston public housing since her request for asylum was denied four years ago.
Gov. Sebelius’ Bluestem Fund PAC vs. Kansas Chamber PAC in late Kansas money reports. See this link:
http://kansasmeadowlark.com/2008/11/01/late-money-reports-in-kansas-elections/
Looks like Obama supporters are happier than Mccain(and by extension, bush)supporters! Bwaaaaahhh!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/ap_yahoo_poll_voter_emotions_5
Test. Test.
One, Two, Three.
Test.
Verification of liberal control of the press check
pre election of The One.
This is only a test.
KU rocks. KS sucks.
Test. One, two, three.
Test. Test.
One, Two, Three.
Test.
Your country is about to be liberated from the oppressive Repub control!
Everyone should be able to laugh at themselves:
Don’t miss the new Red State Song Contest
(it might become a collector item!)
http://www.redstateupdate.com/
liberated from the oppressive Repub control!
Sorta like South by North Vietnam,
sort alike south by North Korea,
Sorta like Russia by Lenin
Sorta like Germany by Hitler.
It’s a comin’
The Americans With No Abilities Act (AWNAA)
WASHINGTON , DC – Congressional bill sponsored by Harry Reid (D-NV) proposes sweeping legislation which will provide new benefits for many of our neglected and impoverished citizens, namely the Americans With No Abilities Act (AWNAA). A bill that is being hailed as a major legislative goal by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.
“Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society,”
said California Senator Barbara Boxer. “We can no longer stand by and allow People of no ability to be ridiculed and passed over. With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of gifted workers, simply because they have some idea of what they are doing.”
In a Capitol Hill press conference, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pointed to the success of the U.S.
Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance effectiveness. Rep. Pelosi pointed out that approximately 84 percent of postal employees exhibit no job skills whatsoever, making this agency the single largest U.S.
employer of Persons of Inability.
Private-sector industries with good records of nondiscrimination against inept and incompetent workers include retail sales (52%), the airline indus try (48%), and home improvement “warehouse” stores (45%). At the state government level, Department of Motor Vehicles also has a great record of hiring persons of little or no ability (73%).
Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million “middle no management” positions will be created, with important-sounding titles, but little real responsibility, thus reinforcing the illusory sense of purpose and performance.
The the AWNAA mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given, to guarantee upward mobility for even the least gifted employees. The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations that promote a significant number of Persons of Inability into middle-no-management positions, and gives a tax credit to small and medium-sized businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every two more talented hires.
Finally, the AWNAA Act contains tough new measures to make it more difficult to discriminate against the Non-abled by banning (for example) discriminatory interview questions such as “Do you have any skills or experience which relate to this job?”
“As a Non-abled person, I can’t be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them,” said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut turner at the GM plant in Flint , Michigan owing to her lack of any discernible job skills. “This new law should really help people like me.”
With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other talent challenged citizens will finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Said permanent Senator Ted Kennedy: “As a Senator With No Abilities, I believe the same privileges that we elected officials enjoy ought to be extended to every American with no abilities. It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her adequacy, with some sort of space to take up in this great nation.”
The bill is expected to come to vote in the first session under the Obama Administration.
Lotsa people say Obama is a Muslim:
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaEducation.htm
According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama’s teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. His teacher was named Maimunah and she lived in the Puncak area, the Cianjur Regency.
“I remembered that he had studied “mengaji” (recitation of the Quran)” Tine said.
Our guy in Jakarta writes: “The actual usage of the word ‘mengaji’ in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. “Mengagi” is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, ‘mengaji classes’ are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes.”
“The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet.” As Plato said, the images and stories we feed our children affect them for life.
“As I’ve stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such.”
Obama’s half-sister, Maya, recalled that the family attended the mosque “for big communal events,” and “Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers.”
In 2007, classmate Rony Amiris described young Barry as enjoying football and playing marbles and of being a very devout Muslim. Amir said, “Barry was previously quite religious in Islam.”
“We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong he looked funny,” said Rony.
Amiris now the manager of the Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, “Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry’s father were very devout Muslims”
Rony extrapolates further, that Obama at one point had to change his religion if he ever intended later to run for the office of President of the United States because America would never elect a Muslim to the be President of the United States.
Also in 2007, Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, “He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a ’sarong’, at that time.”
“He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion.”
CH CH CH CHANGE !!!!
“After his first foray into international policy and foreign relations, Barack Obama showed again today how ill-prepared he is to lead as commander in chief. The fact that Senator Obama has now shifted positions on Iraq three times in the last forty eight hours demonstrates the poor judgment and inexperience that concerns the American people.”—Tucker Bounds, spokesman John McCain 2008
Change #1: Barack Obama Now Says Future Troop Levels In Iraq Should Be “Entirely Conditions-Based”:
In An Interview With Newsweek, Barack Obama Says Future Troop Levels In Iraq Should Be “Entirely Conditions-Based.” NEWSWEEK’S RICHARD WOLFFE: “You’ve been talking about those limited missions for a long time. Having gone there and talked to both diplomatic and military folks, do you have a clearer idea of how big a force you’d need to leave behind to fulfill all those functions?” BARACK OBAMA: “I do think that’s entirely conditions-based. It’s hard to anticipate where we may be six months from now, or a year from now, or a year and a half from now.” (Richard Wolffe, “Obama’s Sober Mood,” Newsweek, http://www.newsweek.com/id/148986/output/print, 7/26/08)
Change #2: Barack Obama Now Says Only There Should Be A “Timeframe For Withdrawal”:
Barack Obama Talks About Setting A “Timeframe For Withdrawal.” BARACK OBAMA: “We can make decisions about does it make sense for us to set a timeframe for withdrawal to encourage the political reconciliation that needs to take place to stabilize Iraq.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 7/27/08)
Change #3: Barack Obama Says He Will Work With The Commanders On The Ground To Maintain Gains In Iraq:
Barack Obama: Work With The Commanders In Afghanistan And Iraq. BARACK OBAMA: “One of the most important things for the next president is to work with the commanders on the ground, to find the right strategy to go after the central front on terror, go after Al Qaeda, go after the Taliban while maintaining some of the gains that have been made in Iraq.” (Barack Obama, Remarks At The UNITY Conference, Chicago, IL, 7/27/08)
-$50,000 & $75,000
If you look at my approach to taxation, what have I said? I said I would cut taxes for people making $75,000 a year or less. I’d cut taxes for seniors who are making $50,000 a year or less. It is true that I would roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans back to the level they were under Bill Clinton, when I don’t remember rich people feeling oppressed.
Source: Fox News Sunday: 2008 presidential race interview Apr 27, 2008
—————————————————————————————————-
-$200,000 or $250,000 I don’t really know!
Q: Senator Obama, would you take the same pledge? No tax increases on people under $250,000?
OBAMA: I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I’ve been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes. We are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to $1,000 worth of relief.
Q: You both have now just taken this pledge on people under $250,000 and $200,000.
OBAMA: Well, it depends on how you calculate it. But it would be between $200,000 and $250,000.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008
—————————————————————————————————-
-And today, is it $250,000?
$200,000?
$150,000?
Hard to tell when Obama is LYING. You have to see if his lips are moving.
http://www.issues2000.org/economic/barack_obama_tax_reform.htm
Part II of refuting capn’s absolutely ridiculous claim of:
“Imagine a gov’t that uses taxes to benefit its people instead of making the rich richer.”
National Parks Service; National Endowment for the Arts; Farm subsidies; National Wetlands Research Center; NOAA; US Geologic Service; Federal Student Loan/Grant Program; National Student Lunch Program; National Highway Safety Traffic Administration; National Weather Service; Supplemental Social Security; FDIC, etc. etc. etc.
capn’s assertion is that our government does nothing for its citizens is obviously yet another in a long line of grandiose generalizations which have absolutely no basis in fact.
capn conveniently “forgets” things like a multibillion dollar food stamp program; federal housing programs; Medicare; highways; FDA inspections of food; FAA protecting air travel; homeland security screening airline passengers; Secret Service investigating fraud; CDC; etc., etc., etc.
How many thousand programs are there that benefits the people of this country that capn wants to pretend don’t exist?
Isn’t that rather the point, Rap? Or are you cool with borrowing a half a trillion dollars a year just to give it away like candy, rather than adequately funding this nation’s needs?
One can look at it two ways: either the borrowed money is largely funding our government (and tax dollars, which are supposed to do that, aren’t), or our tax dollars are funding our government, and we’re just borrowing money to give it away, as some type of Republican welfare program.
Either way, it’s unsustainable.
Wow, Raptor.
Compared with what we spend on the military–i. e., welfare for wealthy multinational corporations like Halliburton, Boeing, Raytheon, Spirit, Blackwater, CACI, Bechtold, etc. etc.–”the national parks” are not even a penny on the dollar . . .
But that explains why you’re a CON.
Absolutely no concept of our national budget and what it’s really getting spent on.
No concept of the national budget? Where do you get that? I was refuting your ridiculous assertion that the only thing our federal government does is make rich people richer. That is one of your more comical claims.
I say JimJohnson is a Muslim. Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Does anyone else want to join me in saying that JimJohnson is a Muslim?
Then we can accurately blog that “Lotsa people say JimJohnson is a Muslim.”
Right Capn,
America should spend as much on Education as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Education as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Education as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Food Stamps as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Health Care as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Public Housing as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Social Security as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on Medicare as it does on National Defense.
America should spend as much on National Parks as it does on National Defense.
EVERYTHING should be EQUALIZED. And something as worthless as Defense Spending should be T H E benchmark used to gauge spending in ALL AREAS of Government.
I was refuting your ridiculous assertion that the only thing our federal government does is make rich people richer. That is one of your more comical claims.
Or, more accurately, your silly misrepresentation of this statement:
“Imagine a gov’t that uses taxes to benefit its people instead of making the rich richer”
Oh well. Carry on.
I’ve never lied about Not Being a Muslim.
Not that I am a Muslim.
Most of the budget already goes to handout programs.
The glaring exception is Defense.
http://www.cbpp.org/4-20-07tax2-f1.jpg
I say DavidB is an Idiot. Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Does anyone else want to join me in saying that DavidB is an idiot?
Then we can accurately blog that “Lotsa people say DavidB is an idiot.”
DavidB is an idiot.
EVERYTHING should be EQUALIZED
Don’t you really mean, “dumb downed”?
As in the dumbing down of America.
“Lotsa people say DavidB is an idiot.”
I’ve never lied about Not Being a Muslim.
Thanks for providing irrefutable proof, from your own hand, that you are indeed a muslim.
Allah Akbar, JimJohnson!
RoaCH
Posted November 1, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
EVERYTHING should be EQUALIZED
Don’t you really mean, “dumb downed”?
As in the dumbing down of America.
——————————————-
We are almost there! Obama will take us the rest of the way!
DavidB is an idiot
So now we can have an honest discussion, knowing we can accurately blog the same.
Goodbye loser republicans!
FOXNews.com
Saturday, 2008-01-306
The latest from North Carolina pollsters indicates that Sen. Elizabeth Dole is trailing even further behind Democratic rival Kay Hagan in a seeming backlash against the incumbent’s “Godless” ad.
The race for North Carolina’s Senate seat has become one of the ugliest in the country. Revelations that Dole spent little time in her home state over the last year as senator opened the seat for Hagan, a former state senator backed fiercely by the Democratic Party.
CNN/Opinion Research released a poll on Friday showing Hagan up 53 percent to Dole’s 44 percent, the Democrat’s biggest margin to date.
Now that we can get beyond the sidebar on the intelligence of DavidB, let’s continue with CapnAmerica’s assertion that we can convert the huge Defense Dept budget to make America the socialist republic he dreams about.
First, can we agree – that we are WASTING billions of dollars in Iraq?
Fox news just moments ago verified for other loser Republicans that Obama is A NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.
THEY HAVE SEEN HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND IT IS AUTHENTIC.
(chortles)
‘Gallup Daily: Obama 52%, McCain 42% Among Likely Voters
Largest lead for Obama among likely voters to date‘
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111661/Gallup-Daily-Obama-52-McCain-42-Among-Likely-Voters.aspx
JimJohnson posted November 1, 2008 at 1:45 pm
It is true that I would roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans back to the level they were under Bill Clinton, when I don’t remember rich people feeling oppressed.
…
OBAMA: Well, it depends on how you calculate it. But it would be between $200,000 and $250,000.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008
————-
$200k for individuals, $250k for couples.
Maybe Palin can get that African Communist Preacher she knows to stop the “witchcraft” against McCain.
Peruvian Shamans Pray for Obama:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/10/31/vo.peru.shamans.ap
If it’s in this blog, it must be true! WHAAAA!!!!
O.K, no one wants to talk about the cost of the Iraqi War in terms of human life (less than half the number of abortions performed in Kansas and lower than the number of abortions in Nebraska in 1996).
So a good place to start when talking about the monetary cost of the Iraqi War:
http://zfacts.com/p/447.html
Approaching 600 Billion dollars as of this post.
Ladies and gentleman, I will submit to you, that all the whining and complaining about the cost of the Iraq War, and the annual crying by the democrat congress which keeps approving the funding –
IS LESS THAN THE LIBERAL MAJORITY IN CONGRESS APPROVED FOR RICH BANKERS BAILOUT.
And the debate about the merits of the war in Iraq, the investigation into WMD, all took place over years.
However, congress voted to give rich bankers 700 billion dollars – in less than two weeks.
A wink of the eye.
And so, I must conclude CapnAmerica you either have absolutely no concept of our national budget and it’s impact on our national debt,
or you simply don’t care about our 10 trillion dollar national debt as long as the money is being spent on projects your party supports.
Because Obama’s handout plan will increase national spending according to every study.
It will do nothing about the national debt.
But of course, as I’ve concluded, liberals really do not care about our national debt.
The WEBLOG is conducting a survey regarding the use and future use of the BLOG’s. The blogs are the only shining light in the newspaper business. Revenues are declining in all other categories.
So, the question arises, after the initial burst of excitement over the election results once Obama is officially the winner – who will still be posting six months from now?
When all of our countries troubles are behind us, and prosperity is in full swing, and all Americans have free healthcare insurance and the wealth is evenly distributed:
What will there be left for libs to bitch about?
test
It wasn’t a very long test, annie_moose, was it difficult?
“you simply don’t care about our 10 trillion dollar national debt as long as the money is being spent on projects your party supports”
And just how much have you objected to YOUR party’s record deficits RoaCH?
Christian Counselor in U.K. Fired after Refusing to Give Sex Advice to Gay Couples
A Christian counselor in the U.K. was fired after he refused to provide sexual advice to homosexual couples.
Gary McFarlane, a psychosexual therapist for the national counseling service Relate, told his employer his Christian faith prevented him from promoting homosexual sex. Fellow counselors claimed McFarlane was homophobic, and he was suspended and later terminated.
McFarlane is taking his case to court.
Bruce Hausknecht, judicial analyst for Focus on the Family Action, said America already has seen similar situations.
“Counselors, doctors, adoption services — even wedding photographers — have learned the hard way they cannot say ‘no’ to homosexuality, even though it violates their deeply held religious beliefs,” he said. “The erosion of religious liberty in this country will only become more pronounced under an Obama administration, which promises the elimination of the Defense of Marriage Act and the passage of so-called ‘nondiscrimination’ and ‘hate crimes’ laws — all of which are high on the wish list of homosexual-activist organizations.”
http://www.summit.org/
Hey YO JMWalker,
We really are all descendents of the 1st Adam who originated from the present day Irag/Iran area.
We are all of one race. The human race.
We saw this move last night and thought it was great! I would highly recommend that anyone go see it and soon.
http://www.fireproofthemovie.com/
yawn.
JimJohnson
Posted November 1, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
DavidB is an idiot.
————————————————-
Jim Johnson is clearly a troll.
Proper response:
Re: Jimbo
DNFTT
Boy, that negative campaigning really works!!!!
FOXNews.com
Saturday, 2008-01-306
The latest from North Carolina pollsters indicates that Sen. Elizabeth Dole is trailing even further behind Democratic rival Kay Hagan in a seeming backlash against the incumbent’s “Godless” ad.
The race for North Carolina’s Senate seat has become one of the ugliest in the country. Revelations that Dole spent little time in her home state over the last year as senator opened the seat for Hagan, a former state senator backed fiercely by the Democratic Party.
CNN/Opinion Research released a poll on Friday showing Hagan up 53 percent to Dole’s 44 percent, the Democrat’s biggest margin to date.
retest
http://www.rollanet.org/~vbeydler/van/vm65/photos/Images%20on%20Reels/4.%20Rocky%20&%20Bullwinkle%20-%201950s.jpg
Greetings my peeps,
How’s tricks in wingnut land?
I saw that Dole ad yesterday – my has she ever sunk into the mud. I had met Bob Dole many years ago and liked him. Didn’t agree with his politics but respected him and admired him as a war hero. Elizabeth has dragged the respected Dole name into the mud. I hope she gets crushed.
JM Walker,
“Huh???? So those who claim they believe in God and creation are incorrect in their beliefs?”
I don’t think so, no.
“Or there is no difference between those who believe in evolution and those who believe in creationism?”
There is a huge difference.
“Coffee. Nathan, you need more coffee. Hank, fix a strong cup for the boy:-)”
I don’t drink coffee.
I thought this comment on another blog summed up the essence of the “Sarkozy” phone call:
Yeah, I find that rather amusing myself. The president of a NATO ally woke up and thought: ‘hmmm, I think I’ll personally drop a line to the VP of the currently losing ticket in the American election…’
Happens every day in Palin’s world…
P.S. The Palin call is eerily reminiscent of this:
<OTTAWA (AP) Stung by a pop quiz about foreign leaders earlier in his campaign, U.S. Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush has fallen victim to a foreign affairs prank.
Canadians are chuckling over his on-air answer when a comic posing as a reporter made up a story that Canadian Prime Minister “Jean Poutine”; had endorsed him.
“I appreciate his strong statement[,] he understands I believe in free trade,” Bush replied. “He understands I want to make sure our relations with our most important neighbour to the north of us, the Canadians, is strong and we’ll work closely together.”
Canada’s prime minister is Jean Chretien, not Poutine, and he has endorsed no one in U.S. politics. Poutine is a popular food in the French-speaking province of Quebec, consisting of french fries, gravy and cheese curd.
“The stunt was pulled by comic Rick Mercer from “This Hour Has 22 Minutes,” a satirical TV show on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. Mercer, who sets up politicians for laughs. He button-holed Bush at a campaign event in Michigan before that state’s Republican primary last month and fired several questions at him about a Prime Minister Poutine.
http://dewit.ca/archs/poutine/index.html
CNN/Opinion Research released a poll on Friday showing Hagan up 53 percent to Dole’s 44 percent, the Democrat’s biggest margin to date.
Hagan’s response (for the “Godless” ad) right in Dole’s face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yug8HcPSwQ
“Bearing false witness” – Ouch!
The Biblical language for calling someone a liar, which Liddy Dole, unfortunately, is.
Yeah,
Probably a bit more offensive than when Obama ran an ad mocking McCain on his use of a computer… only to be told that he doesn’t use one because of his war injuries.
A President should be smarter than that. A candidate shouldn’t run such offensive ads.
I can feel the liberals crying about such a bad ad now…
EYEROLL
Doesnt make any difference to Nathan, even though he has been TOLD by others on the Blog that one of the bloggers has typing difficulties, due to the after effects of a light stroke…. LOL
Nathan = pot calling kettle black…(or red, or yellow, or brown, or white)
“Probably a bit more offensive than when Obama ran an ad mocking McCain on his use of a computer… only to be told that he doesn’t use one because of his war injuries.”
Which ANY rational person knows better than to believe.
I saw him in that debate. McCain doesn’t have any trouble lifting his arms high enough to use a keyboard unless the keyboard would be at chin level.
McCain doesn’t use a computer because he WON’T not because he can’t.
Stephen Hawking manages to use a computer.
McCain is a relic.
mxyzptlk
Posted November 1, 2008 at 5:27 pm | Permalink
Boy, that negative campaigning really works!!!!
FOXNews.com
Saturday, 2008-01-306
The latest from North Carolina pollsters indicates that Sen. Elizabeth Dole is trailing even further behind Democratic rival Kay Hagan in a seeming backlash against the incumbent’s “Godless” ad
——————————-
Perhaps Hagan is Godless. Wouldn’t be the first time a Presbyterian elder or perhaps a local minister right here in Kansas is/was Godless and says things when they think no one is looking.
Probably a bit more offensive than when Obama ran an ad mocking McCain on his use of a computer… only to be told that he doesn’t use one because of his war injuries.
Not long ago, McCain once said he was “illiterate” about computers. One might expect the chairman of the Science, Commerce, and Transporation Committee to know. Apparently he does know a few things after all, but he created the issue himself and, quite frankly, I would expect someone whose committee regularly deals with telecommunitcations issues to know something about them. Duh.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_mccain_unable_to_use_a_computer.html
Dole’s ad was not misleading–it was chock full of out-and-out knowing, deliberate lies, and, to boot, it appealed to nothing more than the same crass appeals to fear and bigotry we’ve come to expect from the religious right.
I liked her when she ran the Transportation Department and the Red Cross. I could live with her as a conservative senator.
But that ad crossed any sort of line, period. It was ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMzX_EAfwyc
Guess when you’re down in the polls it doesn’t matter if you trash your reputation? Does that tell you your ambition is stronger than your own dignity?
Perhaps Hagan is Godless
The “proof” of this was being a room full of people that happened to include Wendy Kaminer.
#
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:16 pm | Permalink
Guess when you’re down in the polls it doesn’t matter if you trash your reputation? Does that tell you your ambition is stronger than your own dignity?
#
Rage
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:17 pm | Permalink
Perhaps Hagan is Godless
The “proof” of this was being a room full of people that happened to include Wendy Kaminer.
======================
Or, you do indeed attend a Godless rally and accept campaign funds from the Godless organization of atheists in exchange for exactly what? :)
Obama’s illegal-alien aunt is living off taxpayer dollars, registered to vote, and donating money to Obama – when she shouldn’t even be in the USA in the first place.
Obama writes fondly of his dear Aunt in his memoirs, but has no idea she is in the USA. His supporters cry that Obama has no personal responsibility, and that the Gov’t should force us all to take responsibility. Obama sure denies a lot, he must be dumb, uh, uh, uh.
So, what is Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” going to look like?
Just as strong and just as well funded (as our military?)
The Obama ‘Civilian National Security Force” would look like this:
Sturm Abteilung (Storm Section). The SA (also known as stormtroopers or brownshirts) were instructed to disrupt the meetings of political opponents and to protect Hitler from revenge attacks.
Substitute Hitler with Obama and there you have it.
Or, you do indeed attend a Godless rally and accept campaign funds from the Godless organization of atheists in exchange for exactly what? :)
Re: Regular
DNFTT
#
Rage
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:21 pm | Permalink
Or, you do indeed attend a Godless rally and accept campaign funds from the Godless organization of atheists in exchange for exactly what? :)
Re: Regular
DNFTT
———————————-
The truth stings your mind!
(chortles)
Chas,
So did you type “TOLD” and “LOL” in caps because of the stroke or because you wanted to?
Chas,
The problem was never that you claimed to have a stroke, it was that you invoked it only when people started calling you on how annoying and rude it was for you to routinely post in caps.
The odd thing is that when you did post in caps, it was not RANDOM or like it was because you HAD a STROKE, rather THAT you were obVIOUSLY typing things in caps becAUSE you WANTED TO.
Rage, at our regular get together today we decided it is futile to try reason. It would be so nice if you could get back to Kansas! Any possibilities? You will let us know if you might be here, won’t you?
From Eugene Volokh’s website, hardly Leftist Central:
http://volokh.com/posts/1216451854.shtml
Barack Obama’s July 2, 2008 speech calling America to national service, Obama proposed “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as our military.
This has prompted some in the blogosphere to raise the specter of a huge new domestic paramilitary organization. Others suggest that he may have been talking about our “current non-military security agencies – FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, DHS, etc.”
I think that both interpretations are probably wrong. If you listen to the whole speech –- or even the couple minutes before his security force proposal — I think that it’s reasonably clear that Obama is talking about expanding a range of domestic and international agencies such as AmeriCorps, the Foreign Service, and the Peace Corps — and adding some new ones.
The two controversial sentences (shown below in bold) were not in the transcript of Obama’s prepared remarks. Because the lines seem as if they were crafted ahead of time, I wonder whether the language was cut from an earlier draft, but Obama decided to deliver the sentences anyway.
Here is Obama on national service (the controversial passage starts at about 16:00; I have also corrected some slight errors in the transcriptions posted by other bloggers):
Obama on National Service, July 2, 2008
Just as we must value and encourage military service across our society, we must honor and expand other opportunities to serve. Because the future of our nation depends on the soldier at Fort Carson, but it also depends on the teacher in East LA, or the nurse in Appalachia, the after-school worker in New Orleans, the Peace Corps volunteer in Africa, the Foreign Service officer in Indonesia. . . .
Today, AmeriCorps – our nation’s network of local, state and national service programs – has 75,000 slots. And I know firsthand the quality of these programs. My wife Michelle once left her job at a law firm at city hall to be a founding director of an AmeriCorps program in Chicago that trains young people for careers in public service. These programs invest Americans in their communities and their country. They tap America’s greatest resource – our citizens.
That’s why as President, I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots, and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their efforts connected to a common purpose. People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer.
So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We’ll call on Americans to join an Energy Corps to conduct renewable energy and environmental cleanup projects in their neighborhoods all across the country. We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, to be there for our military families. And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered, and double the size of Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy.
We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.
Undoubtedly, much of what Obama is talking about is also proposed on his website, for example:
He will establish a Classroom Corps to help teachers and students, with a priority placed on underserved schools; a Health Corps to improve public health outreach; a Clean Energy Corps to conduct weatherization and renewable energy projects; a Veterans Corps to assist veterans at hospitals, nursing homes and homeless shelters; and a Homeland Security Corps to help communities plan, prepare for and respond to emergencies.
So I think it’s incorrect to think that Obama is proposing some new paramilitary organization or is just referring to the FBI or the CIA.
B. Comments on Obama’s Proposal
The part of Obama’s comment that may be a genuine cause for concern is his statement that this civilian force has to be “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as our military.
1. First, Obama is suggesting a fundamental restructuring of our national government with civilian service organizations becoming roughly as important and as expensive as our military. He is proposing to carve another large slice out of the private sector and assign it to the government.
As his website makes clear, Obama is proposing to “Require 100 Hours of Service in College” and grant a $4,000 tax credit to college students for 100 hours of community service work, an effective wage of $40 an hour.
Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.
Further, Obama proposes to divert fully a quarter of college work study funds away from work in college libraries and student services to serving the larger community. (As someone who went to Yale College on a full need scholarship and did work-study, the university would probably have had to hire someone else to do much of the work that I did. Over two years I also did unpaid tutoring in a local high school.)
2. Second, there is the cost. The US military has about 2 million members in service and about 650,000 civilians employed by the Defense Department. Its proposed FY2009 budget is about $585 billion.
Today, before Obama’s expansions, AmeriCorps currently has about 1.875 million members in its various programs: 75,000 in the main AmeriCorps program, 500,000 seniors in the SeniorCorps, and 1.3 million students in the Learn and Serve America program. Obama’s proposed increases in AmeriCorps alone would lead to at least the 175,000 new members mentioned in his speech, bringing the AmeriCorps total to at least 2,050,000 members, about the same as the military’s 2 million members. While the military also has about 650,000 civilian employees, it is unclear how big the existing bureaucracy is at AmeriCorps and other parts of Obama’s civilian security force.
With Obama’s proposed increases in the Foreign Service, the Peace Corps, and other agencies — not to mention the existing and expanded bureaucracies to run them — the total number of members of Obama’s civilian national security force should range from about 2.1 to 2.7 million members and staff, roughly the same numbers as are employed by the Department of Defense.
Yet the current budget of AmeriCorps is under $1 billion, as is the Peace Corps’. The budget of the Defense Department, on the other hand, is about $585 billion, over $200,000 per employee. Although the equipment costs involved in Obama’s civilian national security force would be small compared to the equipment needs of the military, they would not be trivial (building infrastructure is one of Obama’s more expensive goals). (Further, pension and health care costs for former members of the military take up a significant minority of military funding.)
The Heritage Foundation reports that spending on military personnel averages $70,000 per member, though it is not clear what that entails.
If Obama is talking about funding his civilian national security corps at the same level as the military, he would need at least an additional $500 billion.
Even though Peace Corps volunteers are poorly paid under the existing program, the agency’s annual budget is still about $43,000 per Peace Corps volunteer, not a trivial amount. If pay for Peace Corps volunteers and funding for their programs were raised to military levels, the per capita cost of the program would probably increase several fold. If one raised funding for Obama’s civilian corps only to the same level as the military spending on personnel only ($70,000 per member), we would require at least $150 billion in additional annual funding.
These staggeringly huge numbers are driven in part by the large numbers of students in AmeriCorps, 1.3 million of them. If the students were paid only $4,000 each, rather than $70,000 in personnel costs, and the student program is assumed to be otherwise completely free to administer, and the rest of AmeriCorps cost $100,000 per member, then the budget increase needed would be about $100 billion.
Also, is Obama going to expand the GI Bill to cover the 2-3 million people in Obama’s civilian national security force? If they deserve the same power, strength, and funding as the military, why not?
So – if Obama means what he says – his civilian national security corps would cost at least another $100 billion a year, and perhaps as much as $500 billion a year. With total federal income taxes of $935 billion in 2005, Obama’s proposal would mean using up to half of all federal income tax revenues just to fund his promise “to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military.
3. Last, given the dangers and the sacrifices that our fighting men and women are making every day in Iraq and Afghanistan, is it really fair to suggest that AmeriCorps and similar programs should be “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military?
Times have certainly changed. I hesitate to think what the American public would have thought of a politician during World War II who suggested that those donating their time to tutoring, visiting the sick, or leading blackout drills on neighborhood watches on the homefront should be “just as well funded” as those serving in the military. My grandfather, who was too old to serve in WW II and led such neighborhood drills, was a man whom I admired more than anyone else I knew while I was growing up. I’m certain that my grandfather would have thought Obama’s suggestion to be strangely lacking in proportion and simple common sense.
#
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:28 pm | Permalink
Rage, at our regular get together today we decided it is futile to try reason. It would be so nice if you could get back to Kansas! Any possibilities? You will let us know if you might be here, won’t you?
========================
Yeah Rage, Libs can’t stand it when they are told they might be in error or not seeing the facts as presented.
They need some schmoozing lessons on how to disguised distortion of the facts.
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 7:28 pm | Permalink
Rage, at our regular get together today we decided it is futile to try reason. It would be so nice if you could get back to Kansas! Any possibilities? You will let us know if you might be here, won’t you?
Of course. It’s a 1000-mile trip, and I have family in Wichita. But I don’t have an ETA at present. :( Sorry.
Linda,
Futile? The only thing you can say in any discussion when we do try to “reason” with you is that everyone has an opinion and that yours is no more or less valid…yada…yada…yada…
I can’t recall you ever actually engaging anyone in a real discussion that didn’t agree with you.
Anytime anyone ever questioned your ideas or statements you went right back to the line of how opinions are all valid and everyone has one and no one is wrong…
Then you come on here talking about how reason is futile?
I think I almost fell out of my chair when I read that.
Wed DID miss you, and others today Rage.
What a blast and such a beautiful day here for it.
Wed DID miss you, and others today Rage.
What a blast and such a beautiful day here for it.
High of 90 today here (in other words, normal! :).
Gotta skip out now — stuff to do! Thanks for the kind words both of ya!
It’s easy to recognize both futility and pissing contests and get out quickly! I do not have any need for a rebuttal and have never felt any need to repeat my opinions. When you state something clearly the first time you have no need for finding new ways to say the same thing.
Linda, you forgot to tell everyone how tolerant you are. (At least as long as one agrees with you.)
You can’t even imagine how intolerant I am of ignorance! There has probably never been any person more intolerant than I am of lack of knowledge. If a person has not gained as much knowledge as their intelligence allows, I think they are lacking. There will never be a greater cause than education in my opinion.
If a person has stopped being curious, rested on their laurels or stopped wondering what more there is, they are stagnant. I see no redeeming quality in a person who is stagnant.
#
lindainks55
Posted November 1, 2008 at 8:37 pm | Permalink
You can’t even imagine how intolerant I am of ignorance! There has probably never been any person more intolerant than I am of lack of knowledge. If a person has not gained as much knowledge as their intelligence allows, I think they are lacking. There will never be a greater cause than education in my opinion.
——————————-
So, you have no problems using calculus in physics problems then?
#
American
Posted November 1, 2008 at 4:58 pm | Permalink
Hey YO JMWalker,
We really are all descendents of the 1st Adam who originated from the present day Irag/Iran area.
We are all of one race. The human race.
=====================================================
THOUGHT to originate around the Tigris and Euphrates, but not proven. Even so, DNA shows we descended from black men, which would make Adam black. It is also believed by many Jesus was black. Either way, I have no problem with any of it.
And we are all one people, but you couldn’t prove that by the racists attitude towards Obama.
Nathan: The only thing you can say in any discussion when we do try to “reason” with you is that everyone has an opinion and that yours is no more or less valid…yada…yada…yada…
******
For instance, ask Nathan how he can explain believing in a 10,000 year old Earth, and he’ll point to all the academic journals and scientific research that has . . .
Oh, wait.
He’ll say, “it’s my religion” — that is, it’s my OPINION and everybody has a right to their own opinon, yada, yada, yada . . .
Maternal DNA has been proven to have dead ends and be very unreliable.
Nothing has been proven Walker, do some research on the subject instead of making wild claims.
Actually, ReguLIAR, the research that Walker refers to is based on both maternal and paternal DNA.
Using paternal DNA, the ancestors of today’s African “bushmen”–who aren’t exactly black–are thought to provide the precusors of all the races in the world today.
It is speculative and it’s not a closed case, but it is based on a lot of good evidence.
‘The election of Obama would, at a stroke, refresh our country’s spirit’
Never in living memory has an election been more critical than the one fast approaching – that’s the quadrennial cliché, as expected as the balloons and the bombast. And yet when has it ever felt so urgently true? When have so many Americans had so clear a sense that a presidency has – at the levels of competence, vision and integrity – undermined the country and its ideals?
The incumbent administration has distinguished itself for the ages. The presidency of George W Bush is the worst since Reconstruction, so there is no mystery about why the Republican party – which has held dominion over the executive branch of the federal government for the past eight years and the legislative branch for most of that time – has little desire to defend its record, domestic or foreign.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/02/elections-obama-mccain-yorker-democrats
“If John McCain is the answer, the question must be ridiculous.”
Dear Barack,
I hope you are satisfied.
Your Limo picked me up and drove me to the airport. I’m able to send one last email before Immigration flies me back to Kenya.
Barack, I can’t believe you had me deported!
And to think that I cast an early vote for you too.
Thanks agin fer nuthin,
Aunti Zeituni
Jim–
Does the RNC pay you by the word or by the lie?
PARISI: Unasked questions for Obama
Peter J. Parisi
Sunday, November 2, 2008
With just two days to go before the presidential election, an election the chattering class has flatly declared to be the most consequential of our lifetimes – or, some would have you believe, ever – Barack Obama is playing a sort-of prevent defense, waiting for the clock to run out. The Democratic nominee is sitting on the ball, hoping not to make any more gaffes that could cost him his lead in the polls.
It’s easy, of course, when you have a defensive cordon provided by a news media so unabashedly in the tank for Mr. Obama that they need scuba gear, but since they are unlikely to ask their president-in-waiting these questions, his Republican rival John McCain ought to, because the American people deserve answers to them.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/unasked-questions-for-obama/
– With the announcement that you raised an additional $150 million in September alone, you’re on pace to raise and spend something on the order of $650 million during the campaign. Together with your Big Labor allies and liberal 527s spending perhaps $350 million more on top of that on your behalf, we’re looking at a staggering $1 billion. Furthermore, it has been reported you’re out-advertising the McCain campaign 4-to-1 around the country. Aren’t you essentially trying to buy the presidency? When was it put up for sale to the highest bidder?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/unasked-questions-for-obama/
– You have spoken of your intention of raising taxes on the “rich” and making them pay their “fair share.” Can you put some hard numbers on that? What constitutes “rich” in your view, and what do you consider a “fair share,” given that, according to October 2007 Internal Revenue Service figures, the top 1 percent of taxpayers already pay 39.4 percent of all income taxes, the top 5 percent pay nearly 60 percent and the top 25 percent pay 86 percent? Is that not “fair share” enough, and if not, what would be “fair,” in your view?
– You and your vice-presidential running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, have vowed repeatedly to “end” the war in Iraq. Why is the verb always “end” and never “win”?
– You have sought to make an issue of my supposedly voting with President Bush 90 percent of the time, hoping to link me to a president whose popularity rating is under 30 percent. But isn’t it also true that you have voted 95 percent of the time with a Democratic Congress whose popularity rating is even lower than Mr. Bush’s, in some polls as low as 9 percent. So isn’t that 90 percent thing a red herring?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/unasked-questions-for-obama/
– During the Democratic primaries, you refused to participate in a debate on the Fox News Channel, supposedly because the network isn’t “fair and balanced,” even though the event was to be co-sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus. If you are unable to stand up to Brit Hume and Chris Wallace, why should we believe that as president you would be able to stand up to Vladimir Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il or Hugo Chavez?
– You have longstanding ties to ACORN, a left-wing group that is being investigated on voter-registration fraud charges in at least a dozen states, including in Nevada, where ACORN employees submitted voter-registration forms for the entire Dallas Cowboys starting lineup. Will you sever all ties to ACORN, call on Congress to revoke its millions of dollars in federal funding and urge the attorney general to pursue a RICO (Racketeer-Influenced Corruption Organization Act) investigation of ACORN?
– You have received the backing of the teachers unions and have called for more federal spending on public education. So, if you are elected president, will you send your daughters, Sasha and Malia, to the D.C. public schools, as President Carter did with Amy? Would it not be hypocritical – in essence saying, “Do as I say, not as I do” – to do otherwise?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/unasked-questions-for-obama/
– In your acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention, you said we should be our “brother’s keeper.” Yet, what have you done in that regard to help your own half-brother, George Hussein Obama, who lives in a hut in the slums of Nairobi, Kenya, on $1 a month?
– You say you are against gay marriage, so why have you come out against a ballot referendum in California that would overrule the actions of four judges there that overturned the expressed will of 61 percent of the people of California in a 2000 referendum and imposed gay marriage by judicial fiat?
– Some of your supporters have tried to make a health issue of the fact I’ve been treated for melanoma, even though I’ve been pronounced cancer-free. Yet you have not released more than a summary of your medical records. Will you release your full medical records before the election. If not, why not? Don’t the people have a right to know?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/unasked-questions-for-obama/
As I understand it, modern African blacks did not originate in Africa (except for the Bushmen, who never left).
Their ancestors (being the same as white Europeans and Asians) left Africa and then re-immigrated to the Africa many thousands of years later.
Good night all. The idiot has the stage. Go, JimJohnson…
Hey “Jim”?
IF you’re gonna have us endure your meltdown, you could at least do it in your usual nic.
Or, have you lost even that shred of dignity?
Looks like Jim can’t answer questions either.
I’m going with “paid by the lie” since he’s using the WashTimes as his source.
What’s his usual nic, BlueJay?
Heckler?
Re: Jimbo
DNFTRST
And Capn, I do not believe your understanding is accurate. One of the reasons why Africa is identified as the homeland for our species is because the genetic diversity among natives of Africa basically rivals if not exceeds that of the entire rest of the world, and greatly exceeds that of any particular region of the world, indicating that people have been living and breeding in Africa longer than they have been anywhere else (the longer a population has been in a place, the greater the genetic diversity within that place). There is speculation that the immediate ancestors of our species may have evolved elsewhere (say in sourthern Europe) then returned to Africa before moving out to the rest of the world, but that would have been well before any modern “races” evolved. And those ancestors who returned to Africa would have been the ancestors of all modern humans, including the Khoisan folk (so called “bushmen”).
I could be mistaken, but I don’t think I am.
CapnAmerica
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:34 pm | Permalink
As I understand it, modern African blacks did not originate in Africa (except for the Bushmen, who never left).
Their ancestors (being the same as white Europeans and Asians) left Africa and then re-immigrated to the Africa many thousands of years later.
———————————————————————-
That has to be the dumbest post of the day. Congratulations Capn.
Next our gonna tell us that the Elephants in Africa actually are from Antarctica.
Re; Jimbo
DNFTRST
To my knowledge, the nic “Jim Johnson” has not appeared until today.
On another thread, this supposedly “new” blogger engaged in an extended battle with XXX, during which he mentioned my previous J R nic.
Not consistent with a “new” blogger.
Whoever it is, they are engaged in desperation tactics not just here but on multiple threads.
Candidates would include James McCluer “Regular” and Paul F Rosell “Franklin”.
MY guess is it is “Regular”.
It doesn’t really matter. THEIR side of things is already beaten. The nic switching is indicative of the despair and desperation.
CapnAmerica,
I am not the one claiming the Creation is an irrefutable fact and that you must accept it as true or you are an ignorant idiot.
As a matter of fact, I can’t remember the last time I brought up creation let alone said someone had to believe it.
On the other hand, you do insist that as a Christian I reject it and insist that those who do believe in Creation are basically ignorant idiots.
So your ‘point’ that I basically say it is my opinion in response to what I said to Linda is rather absurd.
I don’t merely think it is my opinion either. I believe that the Bible pretty clearly shows that creation is a true account for how God created us.
I believe that there is evidence for this, but it is obviusly not going to be in any peer reviewed scientific material.
Science as we know it rejects the supernatural out of hand. Period.
So to expect me to present proof to you from a source which would reject anyone that did try to submit said proof is a bit much.
Obama Supporter, State Sen Kirk Watson (D), Can’t Name Any Accomplishments of Obama:
Wow… what an embarrassing moment for this Obama supporter. Look how Chris Matthews just explodes on this guy who is an upstanding politician in his own right. It’s kind of funny, and at the same time you’ve got to ‘feel his pain.’
http://luvtosurf.blogspot.com/2008/02/obama-supporter-embarrassing-moment.html
#
Regular
Posted November 1, 2008 at 9:12 pm | Permalink
Maternal DNA has been proven to have dead ends and be very unreliable.
Nothing has been proven Walker, do some research on the subject instead of making wild claims.
========================================================
Wild claims? Does the claim bother you that much? I watched a program on natgeo claiming just that. They followed a DNA trail from modern man all the way to a tribe still existing in Africa. It was a very enlightening education on DNA and its markers.
The research has already been done by people better educated in that field than myself. So if they’re wild claims, blame them, dude. But I guess you would be very irritated to find you have black blood in your veins. Hell, you might even be related to Obama. Now, wouldn’t that be something!
Because of posters like “Regular”,and “HLP” Hank the right has developed something of a serious credibility problem on this forum.
Without ANY sort of nailed down, known identity here, the odd right wing blogger that appears must be assumed to be just another switch in nics.
Fossils were recently found in central China that are at least 1.9 million years old and which have been identified as Homo habilis, the direct ancestor of Homo erectus. The crude stone tools found with the fossils are very similar to those of Homo habilis excavated at Olduvai Gorge.
Homo erectus.
Africa remains the origin of the very oldest proto-human fossils, but the Chinese find raises two intriguing possibilities. One is that Homo erectus actually evolved in Asia and then migrated back to Africa. The other is that Asian strains of man (and perhaps others) have been evolving outside of Africa for nearly two million years. [John Wilford, Bones in China put new light on old humans, NYT, 11/16/95, p. A8.]
Acheulean artifacts suggest the presence of Homo erectus in those areas (Europe). These artifacts have not been found in East Asia although Homo erectus fossils have been found, indicating that East Asian Homo erectus may have been less advanced than its African and European cousins. This finding is consistent with the possibility that Homo erectus may have evolved in Asia and migrated to Europe and back to Africa.
Is there such a thing as a roboblogger? jimjohnson fits the bill. What we’re seeing here is an extension of franklins Wango logic taken to the next level, i.e., a generic entity, using a keyboard to repeat the same thing over and over in the hope someone believes it. Problem is, most free thinkers know how to use a computer to actually look up facts, which, in all cases, completely wash the bs slate clean. That leaves the right-wing neo-cons with nothing more than a loser as their political savior.
Blue Jay,
You never switched nics?
Never?
“100,000 and 200,000 thousand years ago” should be:
“100,000 and 200,000 years ago.”
“Blue Jay,
You never switched nics?
Never?”
Who wants to know?
No, I have not in any significant way ever switched nics.
Time for SNL.
Boeing strike is over.
Spirit will probably remain on three day weeks until Jan.
Nathan rationalizes: Science as we know it rejects the supernatural out of hand. Period.
*****
It most certainly does not.
Science supports any conclusion that can be supported with verifiable evidence.
Using such evidence as carbon 14 dating and the “red shift” of light from galaxies speeding away from the earth, the age of universe has been estimated at 13.5 billion years old.
This has nothing to do with “science’s rejection of God” and everything to do with the observable evidence.
There is NO CONFLICT between science and religion except for Biblical fundamentalists who force the Bible to be something it is not–a science book.
It’s your opinion that the universe is only 10,000 years old. You have no evidence for it–only your own wishful thinking so that it will square with your wrong-headed interpretation of Scripture.
Anybody who believes what you do doesn’t get to lecture us about logic.
I-Knew-It–
Thanks for voting RepubliCON.
We definitely don’t want anybody like you on our side.
CapnAmerica,
First of all, logic is basically the principles related to inference.
What I believe or do not believe has little to do with the correct use of logic or using logical fallacies in argument.
Basically, you are using the logical fallacy of the ad hominem in trying to suggest that because I believe in creation this somehow negates the things I say in regards to logic.
What do you mean science doesn’t reject the supernatural?
The supernatural by definition is that which is above a natural explanation.
Science only deals with the natural.
Can you name one thing that science accepts which is supernatural since you claim it doesn’t reject it?
There is a huge conflict between science and religion when it comes to God.
Science will never accept God as the answer.
As I have pointed out to you numerous times ( these are the times you leave the discussion) at some point, if you believe in God, you must believe that God was involved.
At whatever point that is, you are in conlict with science.
Now, I am talking about science in general here. As a Christian I have no problem with science except for it’s rejection of accepting anything supernatural as an explanation.
Because the very nature of my being a Christian is that I believe that there is a God and that he sent his son to die for our sins and in many other things like miracles.
There is no scientific explanation for those things. I merely believe them. There is oftern evidence of said things, but no “scientific” explanation.
The simple fact, is that at some point if you belive in God, you reject science at that point.
The only difference between you and I is where that point is. For me, it is at the creation of the Universe.
For you, well, every time I ask you give me some explanation of how God is involved and you don’t reject science.
So, let me ask you CapnAmerica. Where does science say the answer is God?
Does it ever?
If it doesn’t then how can you say that science doesn’t reject God? (In the general sense, Obviously you can be a chemist, doctor, or many other things in a scientific field and still believe in God)
Science might say there is no evidence to support the god theory. It is not testable and thus outside the self imposed confines of scientific enquiry.
DavidB,
Exactly. To further that thought though, science has an explanation for everything from the Big Bang to the Universe to Earth and to life.
No where is God a part of it.
So if you believe in God, where do you think God fits in without having to reject science at that point? (If you can do such a thing)
BlueJay
Posted November 1, 2008 at 10:27 pm | Permalink
“Blue Jay,
No, I have not in any significant way ever switched nics.
=============================================================
Oh, so you have switched nics in a non-significant way.
I see.
“Oh, so you have switched nics in a non-significant way.
I see.”
Go catch me in one. I already know where you are going Jimmuh.
You would be quite right, Blue Jay… Your non-significant change came about due to the Registrtion… Which imposed the change to Blue Jay on you… which as you say, is a non-significant change…
CapnAmerica,
I doubt you will be responding, you never really do at this point in the discussion, but I will be off for the evening.
You could surprise me though! Try to answer my questions.
the way JimJohnson immediately called me names after I exposed his Muslim background secret… it sure sounded like a ‘regular’ poster. Certain meanness just seems familiar.
Oh thanks for the compliment JM.
Calling me a roboblogger is to get all the Libs lined up to scroll over the truth teller. Of course your comment has the opposite effect.
JM, plagued by delusions of grandier, and self-perceptions of elevated cognitive reasoning, which lead you to beleive you are superior in some way, and that others might even give a crap about your opinions.
Ok, I get it.
Carry on with your delusions.
Gosh David, you are just like the SNL skit, trying to label those who disagree with you as Nazis.
Surprised you haven’t used that term directly yet.
Chas must be Blue Jay.
So Blue Jay, how many nics do you use?
“Chas must be Blue Jay.”
Uh huh.
A dozen or so bloggers who met both Chas and I today know otherwise.
Get ANOTHER nic. Light yourself on fire or something James McCluer. I’m not going to indulge you.
LAS VEGAS (Reuters) – Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama knows nothing about the status of a Kenyan relative reported to be living in the United States illegally but believes “all appropriate laws should be followed,” his campaign said on Saturday.
The Obama campaign responded to an Associated Press report that Obama’s aunt had been ordered to leave the country four years ago by an immigration judge who rejected her request for asylum from her native Kenya.
Zeituni Onyango, 56, who Obama calls “Auntie Zeituni” in one of his memoirs, has been living quietly in a public housing complex in Boston and is the half-sister of Obama’s late father.
“Sen. Obama has no knowledge of her status but obviously believes that any and all appropriate laws should be followed,” Obama campaign spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.
The campaign questioned the timing of the disclosure just three days before the election.
“I think people are suspicious about stories that surface in the last 72 hours of a national campaign,” David Axelrod, Obama’s chief media strategist told reporters. “And I think they’re … going to put it in that context.”
The Associated Press attributed its story to two unnamed sources, one a federal law enforcement official, but said it could not establish whether anyone at a political level in the Bush administration or the McCain campaign had been involved in its release.
It said Onyango’s failure to leave the country would be an administrative, non-criminal violation of immigration law. Such cases are handled outside the criminal court system.
http://www.kfab.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=4511433
_________________________________________
NOTE: This “alleged” Aunt, is a mere 7 or 8 years older than Obama…. a HALF sister of the Father he only met once in his life…
Sources are UNIDENTIFIED….
It was great seeing everyone and meeting new people. I just got home after a great day with my blog friends for company and then the dinner theater in the evening. And no, I didn’t turn down anymore one way streets!
The fundy radio bazaare today was great entertainment. “I’s voten fer McCayne cuz I’m a Kristyan and the bible shawd replace dem constitution!” What is it going to take- holy war between the denominations to show them that freedom of religion applies to them as well- and if they take it away- they risk losing theirs too?
Nathan — Have you EVER seen science attempt to explain WHY we are?? That would appear to be the key to your dilemma.
“What is it going to take- holy war between the denominations to show them that freedom of religion applies to them as well- and if they take it away- they risk losing theirs too?”
I think you’re barking up the right tree there, PMama…
And once again, we have confusion between methodological naturalism and metaphysical naturalism. However, I do actually salute Nathan here because he does attempt to construct a logical argument.
Nathan:
“What do you mean science doesn’t reject the supernatural?
“The supernatural by definition is that which is above a natural explanation.
“Science only deals with the natural.”
This is correct. Science is dependent upon naturalistic explanations, because they are the only explanations that are testable. So, a doctor, confronted with a patient with a fever, is going to look for an infection because 1) microbes have caused infections and therefore fevers in countless people and 2) an alternative supernatural explanation such as demonic possession or the will of God is not testable. However, methodologically it is not so much a rejection of the possibility of the supernatural as it is the rejection of supernatural explanations because they can neither be tested or treated. And, in medicine, treating infections assuming testabe natural explanations have worked. This is methodological naturalism.
“Can you name one thing that science accepts which is supernatural since you claim it doesn’t reject it?”
Rhetorical question, but one that can be answered. Science can not deal with supernarual explanations since it is outside the purview of natural science and the methodological practice of science. Therefore, science must practice methodological naturalism that does not resort to the supernatural to be science. However, while methodological naturalism necessarily rejects resorting to supernatural explanations, it does not necessarily reject the existence of the supernatural.
There is a huge conflict between science and religion when it comes to God.”
False. The practice of science does not in practice allow for (most) god hypotheses as a methodological explanation, but that does not equal rejection of the possible existence of a god. It simply means that god can not be invoked as an explanation in the practice of science.
“Science will never accept God as the answer.”
Actually, I can think of several ways that god(s) could provide evidence of his/her/its/their existence that would be acceptable to most scientists. If a god moved stars at several hugely different distances to spell out a message to earth dwellers in Hebrew or English or Sanskrit, that would be acceptable evidence. It is not likely, but it is possible, and therefore your categorical statement is falsified.
“As I have pointed out to you numerous times ( these are the times you leave the discussion) at some point, if you believe in God, you must believe that God was involved.”
“At whatever point that is, you are in conlict with science.”
That’s not true. You are hypothesizing that physical existence is influenced and indeed caused by a god. That is a natural hypothesis, even if god is a “supernatural” being, because that god’s efforts had to have had a measurable physical effect (creation).
“Now, I am talking about science in general here. As a Christian I have no problem with science except for it’s rejection of accepting anything supernatural as an explanation.”
Well, that’s honest. However, I recall multiple times when you claimed that you could argue against evolution and for a young earth on a seperate basis from your religious beliefs. Does this constitute an admission that this is not actually the case?
“Because the very nature of my being a Christian is that I believe that there is a God and that he sent his son to die for our sins and in many other things like miracles.”
Fair enough.
“There is no scientific explanation for those things. I merely believe them. There is often evidence of said things, but no ’scientific’ explanation.”
Agree with the above except for the claim that there is “evidence of said things”. But that is a seperate issue.
“The simple fact, is that at some point if you belive in God, you reject science at that point.”
Agreed within the framework of how you have referred to “God”. However, it should be noted that the practice of methodological naturalism within a scientific field does not automatically entail the presumed non-existence of a god, and even metaphysical naturalism (which is the assumption that the natural is all that there is) does not necessarily eliminate a god hypothesis (the existence of a very powerful creative intelligence could be a natural/physical part of existence).
“The only difference between you and I is where that point is. For me, it is at the creation of the Universe.”
And the fact is, there are naturalistic, testable explanations for at least the universe as we now perceive it. Therfore, if you assume that such explanations reject your supernatural god, you reject scientific explanations that have the advantage of being testable and falsifiable.
“For you, well, every time I ask you give me some explanation of how God is involved and you don’t reject science.”
The commonality between both god hypotheses and pretty much all physical (methodological and even metaphysically natural) hypotheses is that there was always something (either a god or nature itself). Thus, someone can believe that while naturalistic methods are sufficient to explain the universe as it now is, while believing that the universe began as an intelligent artifact (because within the explanation that there was always something, there is room for the idea that at least part of that something was always intelligent). I personally don’t see the assumption that the universe is an intelligent artificat as necessary, but someone can hold to the belief that it is and still believe that science explains the present form of the universe without fear of logical contradiction. If you can’t see it, that is an argument from personal incredulity. There is no logical reason why acceptance of scientific explanations automatically results in disbelief in a creator and even personal God (it may result in the rejection of the Christian God that YOU imagine, but that is a different issue altogether).
“So, let me ask you CapnAmerica. Where does science say the answer is God?”
Answering your challenge is not necessary for Capn America to prove that he does not simulatenously hold two contradictory beliefs. Your argument is therefore flawed (but again, at least you took the effort to construct one).
Dick Cheney:
“In three days we’ll choose a new steward for the presidency and begin a new chapter in our history,” the Vice President said Saturday morning. “It’s the biggest decision that we make together as Americans. A lot turns on the outcome. I believe the right leader for this moment in history is Senator John McCain.”
Joe Biden’s response:
If you ever had any doubt that John McCain would continue George Bush’s policies — you can put those to rest. Just today, Vice President Cheney came out and endorsed John McCain. Do we need any more proof? I’m not surprised. Dick Cheney has been wrong on everything else the last eight years. He’s on a roll.
then they put Cheney back in the freezer
I think a lot of posters think Jim Johnson is phony.
Therefore, Jim Johnson is a phony — LOL
Sentor Obama on the Dick Cheney endorsement:
I’d like to congratulate Senator McCain on this endorsement because he really earned it. That endorsement didn’t come easy. Senator McCain had to vote 90 percent of the time with George Bush and Dick Cheney to get it. He served as Washington’s biggest cheerleader for going to war in Iraq, and supports economic policies that are no different from the last eight years. So Senator McCain worked hard to get Dick Cheney’s support.
But here’s my question for you, Colorado: do you think Dick Cheney is delighted to support John McCain because he thinks John McCain’s going to bring change? Do you think John McCain and Dick Cheney have been talking about how to shake things up, and get rid of the lobbyists and the old boys club in Washington?
“And the fact is, there are naturalistic, testable explanations for at least the universe as we now perceive it. Therfore, if you assume that such explanations reject your supernatural god, you reject scientific explanations that have the advantage of being testable and falsifiable.”
Not to mention that the scientific explanations have actual measurable evidence to support them, as well as to test them.
Agnatha and DavidB?
Get yourselves some disposable email addy’s.
Let’s get you in on the network. We had a fun meetup today and we missed you.
I dunno I really hate hanging out with liberals… ;->
Mccain,Palin,Dick Cheney,Bush a quadfecta of Mavericks!
You knew where I was going didn’t you BJ?
You lied about not being a nic switcher.
“You lied about not being a nic switcher.”
Go get the proof.
Wiki–
Fossils of modern humans were found in Qafzeh cave in Israel and have been dated to 100,000 years ago. However these humans seem to retreated back to Africa 70,000 to 80,000 years ago . . .
Chas
Posted November 1, 2008 at 11:19 pm | Permalink
You would be quite right, Blue Jay… Your non-significant change came about due to the Registrtion… Which imposed the change to Blue Jay on you… which as you say, is a non-significant change…
==========================================
Blue Jay was CORRECT upthread… Dont read much, eh, JJ…
You werent going anywhere, because you had nowhere to go, except back to the sock drawer you came out of…. LOL
Are you saying Blue Jay that you never Nic Switched?
For the 2nd Time, Chas answers for BJ.
They are the same, or BJ is too weak to stand up for himself.
He really fits right in here.. like an old timer.. doesn’t he? The voice seems so familiar….
“Are you saying Blue Jay that you never Nic Switched?”
I have invited you to prove otherwise. That is the limit of the attention I will pay you.
Why on earth would a regular poster want to create a new identity? Some of these games are beyond me…
And now for something completely different –
“All About Eve” is running on Turner Classic Movies.
Try to avoid it.
An aging Bette Davis.
A young Marilyn Monroe.
One of the damnedest movies ever made.
See ya later, bloggers.
Ok BJ, avoiding the question.
I’ll remind you of this the next time you accuse someone else of nic switching.
Jim, why dont you take YOU and your JOHNSON, and just go off to bed…. or to your favorite night time feeding trough…. LOL
Daylight savings time in the mix.
It’s almost midnight bloggers and another day closer to progressive victory.
Cindy McCain now says that it was HER decision to choose Gov. Sarah to be the VP candidate…. How interesting…
Source: ABC News at THIS hour….
For the 3rd Time this lil Chas character has to stand up for you BJ.
You two boys must be really close pals, or one and the same talkin to yourself.
And BJ, get some gonads of your own, cause try as he might, Chas ain’t got enough to spare for you.
good night; good luck; god bless —-
whatever you conceive god to be!!
blessings ALL!!
blessings on the Time Change… Fall Back…
so mote it be!!
for all the wiccans among us:
Blessed Be!!
“I’ll remind you of this the next time you accuse someone else of nic switching.”
So, let’s get this straight.
A poster with a nic that appears for the first time today is questioning me.
Remind away. But you need your own credibility and stable nic first.
For the Pastafarians >>>>
May the scrumptuous sauce of the FSM be with you, and cover your pasta with all hope and peace, and good will!!
Pass the Parmesan, Please!!
JJ = Full of S*it….
Re: JJ
DNFTST!!!
Capn:
“As with genetic research, fossil evidence also does not entirely support or refute either of the competing hypotheses of modern human origins. However, many scientists see the balance of evidence favoring an African origin of modern H. sapiens within the past 200,000 years. The oldest known modern-looking skulls come from Africa and date from perhaps 195,000 years ago. The next oldest come from the Near East, where they date from about 90,000 years ago. Fossils of modern humans in Europe do not exist from before about 40,000 years ago. In addition, the first modern humans in Europe—often referred to as Cro-Magnon people—had elongated lower leg bones, as did African populations that were adapted to warm, tropical climates. This suggests that populations from warmer regions replaced those in colder European regions, such as the Neandertals.
Fossils also show that populations of modern humans lived at the same time and in the same regions as did populations of Neandertals and Homo erectus, but that each retained its distinctive physical features. The different groups overlapped in the Near East and Southeast Asia for between about 30,000 and 50,000 years. The maintenance of physical differences for this amount of time implies that archaic and modern humans either could not or generally did not interbreed. To some scientists, this also means that the Neandertals belong to a separate species, H. neanderthalensis, and that migratory populations of modern humans entirely replaced archaic humans in both Europe and eastern Asia.”
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761566394_10/human_evolution.html
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/06/11_idaltu.shtml
Note: Tim White is kind of the brash bad boy of paleoanthropology, and he tends to make definitive claims that I don’t think always are justified, but the point is, the oldest clearly modern looking human fossils come from Africa, not the near east or anywhere else.
‘Mitochondrial Eve’ goes with the supposition that mitochondrial dna is only passed on by females. However, science of late have found that this is not true; indeed males can pass on mitochondrial dna.
The problem therein is that one has to suppose a perfect lineage. That is, no cross breeding or lineage lines were broken.
However, having lines that were not broken by rape, incest, husbands/wives fooling around, slave owners and etc. is more realistic of the world than the straight line lineage theory that we all come out of Africa and it can be proven.
The other flaw in the mitochondrial Eve theory is that the supposition relates to fossils found in Africa that are human-like.
There has been no successful extraction of dna of these fossils compared to humans that showed anything relational to other ancient fossils in other parts of the world.
The Australia Mungo man is an interesting case as it throws a “bone” in the time frame for development in the “out of Africa theory.” That is, the 60,000 year old fossil dna does not leave enough time for genetic transformations for racial characteristics of African base to transform into the small framed Asian based humans.
As far as the fossil remains of two million year old bones being human or ancestors of humans, there has been no link, no proof of connection to any of the modern species known.
Those making wild claims that we all come out of Africa are only the essence of superficial and inaccurate layman interpretation that logic follows pre-supposition and therefore must be true.
Since the chain of proof doesn’t exist, the statement of claim is invalid and inaccurate.
Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge!!
#
Chas
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:56 am | Permalink
Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge!!
——————–
It’s an editorial of many sources, my own opinion.
Deal with it.
#
Regular
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:58 am | Permalink
#
Chas
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:56 am | Permalink
Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge!!
——————–
It’s an editorial of many sources, my own opinion.
Deal with it.
======================================================
. . .and your own opinion means something? Like the world would be better off if the same thing happened to one of the bloggers that happened to talk show host in Denver? Ya, your credibility is real. There, dealt with.
#
JMWalker
Posted November 2, 2008 at 5:20 am | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:58 am | Permalink
#
Chas
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:56 am | Permalink
Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge!!
——————–
It’s an editorial of many sources, my own opinion.
Deal with it.
======================================================
. . .and your own opinion means something? Like the world would be better off if the same thing happened to one of the bloggers that happened to talk show host in Denver? Ya, your credibility is real. There, dealt with.
————————-
Typical of a Lib, write about personal attack rather than try to have a discussion on what was wrote.
Or are you suffering a ‘wango’ moment of senility?
“Mitochondrial Eve’ goes with the supposition that mitochondrial dna is only passed on by females. However, science of late have found that this is not true; indeed males can pass on mitochondrial dna.”
Let me fix that for you for accuracy’s sake.
“Mitochondrial Eve’ goes with the supposition that mitochondrial dna is only passed on by females. However, science of late have found that this is not strictly true; indeed males can pass on mitochondrial dna.”
Male’s passing on mDNA is so rare as to be a non-factor, particularly for mammals. There is a reason why it was only recently discovered.
“The problem therein is that one has to suppose a perfect lineage. That is, no cross breeding or lineage lines were broken.”
This is a false statement. Indeed, a mitochondrial Eve is actually a statistical certainty in some point of an ancestry. Why? Because at some point in a lineage there will be a female who is the only female to have left female descendents. The evidence that our species’ mitochondrial Eve existed relatively later (200,000 years ago or so) is what is considered relevant. And the existence of a mitochondrial Eve in no way suggest a lack of crossbreeding. For example, say that m-Eve was part of a community of 20 women and 20 men. It is entirely possible that almost all of these women have living descendents. It is simply that somewhere down the line, a generation of their descendents were all male except for m-Eve’s, so all the famles of the population carried only m-Eve’s m-DNA.
“The other flaw in the mitochondrial Eve theory is that the supposition relates to fossils found in Africa that are human-like.
“There has been no successful extraction of dna of these fossils compared to humans that showed anything relational to other ancient fossils in other parts of the world.”
That is not a flaw in the theory, just a limitation in testing it. More importantly, the presence of ancient morphologically modern human fossils in Africa is consistent with the out of Africa hypothesis as it applies to m-Eve. Furthermore, there is nothing about the analysis that led to the theory of m-Eve living approximately 200,000 years ago that in itself suggested that she lived in Africa. That came from the fact that the genetic diversity among peoples in Africa, and among one of the presumed oldest peoples of Africa (the Khoisan) is approximately equal to that of the entire human species, and substantially greater than the diversity found among natives of any other continent. The age of m-Eve combined with the diversity of nuclear DNA (and m-DNA) among people living in the African continent led comparative geneticists to place Eve in Africa. The presence of the oldest fossils that morphologically look like modern humans in Africa is consistent with that prediction. Who knows, another ancient modern looking human fossil may be found elsewhere, but it hasn’t happened yet, and the fossil evidence, as it stands, is consistent with the out of Africa hypothesis.
Regular
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:58 am | Permalink
#
Chas
Posted November 2, 2008 at 3:56 am | Permalink
Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge!!
——————–
It’s an editorial of many sources, my own opinion.
Deal with it.
==========================================
My comment, “Damn Regular, no link = bogus hodge podge”
This is also an editorial statement of MANY sources… and my opinion…. There, it is dealt with…. ROFL!!!
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