As 16 of the nation’s 21 GOP governors meet in Florida, they seem to be clear on the bleak status quo of the party nationally, if not on what to do about it. Said Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty (in photo): “We cannot compete, and prevail, as a majority governing party if we have a significant deficit, as we do, with women, where we have a large deficit with Hispanics, where we have a large deficit with African-American voters, where we have a large deficit with people of modest incomes and modest financial circumstances. Those are not factors that make up a formula for success going forward.” Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said of voters: “They fired us with cause.” But Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour advised that things could be worse, as they were after Watergate: “I have looked down at the grave of the Republican Party, and this ain’t it.”
Meanwhile, Sarah Palin urged her fellow GOP governors to be reformers who “show the federal government the way.” She also said: “We are now the minority party, but let us not resolve to become the negative party, too eager to find fault or unwilling to help in this time of crisis and war. . . . Let us build our case with actions, not just with words.”
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112 Comments
Maybe this will be a wakeup call to dump the extremist wing of fundies, and a return to the idea of less government is better.
I hope so!
But look at the thread on gay marriage. Seems there are still many who want government to legislate morality.
It would be such an improvement for all Americans to have the Grand Ole Party back. If they are willing to tell the neocons America isn’t the world’s police, and the fundies that religion and moral teachings belong in their churches, there are a bunch of people who wouldn’t feel disenfranchised by the party.
SOME party needs to address financial solvency, fiscal responsibility and government that works but doesn’t control what isn’t the business of government.
Well said. Traditional conservatisim. Small government, low taxes, fiscally responsible, and socially liberal.
Great recipe for victory in 2012, but there will be too many chef’s with their fingers in the pudding. Then they will burn it anyway.
Republicans should not become the party of hand outs. If you do not assist people in improving themselves you are only committing them to a life of poverty.
People are proud when they achieve success by their own hands. Sometimes they may need a little lift and assistance but they should not become dependent hand outs. They should become dependent upon themselves.
Then they can raise their heads high and say look what I did!
“lindainks55
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
I hope so!
But look at the thread on gay marriage. Seems there are still many who want government to legislate morality.”
Those are the extremists that should join the Palin morality party.
“SolDevVB
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
Well said. Traditional conservatisim. Small government, low taxes, fiscally responsible, and socially liberal.
…”
That would get my vote whether it was called Republican or Democrat
brain,
That was Ron Paul’s campaign.
He is a wise man and the right man for this country durring the current crisis.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
the
Palinmorality party.Sounds like a great third party for the RR
Brenda writes, “Republicans should not become the party of hand outs.”
I entirely agree.
Just imagine for example if Rush Limbaugh couldn’t have gone on welfare for two years.
He would have had to find another profession beside radio announcing, bricklayer or sheet metal work perhaps, and earned an honest living.
What the Republicans don’t understand is that most Americans don’t want to “get government off your back” anymore.
They want government to lead the way to people working together to solve the big problems–wealth inequality, living wages, pollution, health care, and maintaing standards of living for the middle class.
Crist is a good Republican governor because, unlike conservative Republicans, he holds some progressive views on the environment, voting rights, etc. Any party whose platform consists solely of tax cuts for the rich, hating gays and outlawing abortion are doomed to failure.
Sunflower,
Did you know that Kansas designates the sunflower as a noxious weed?
“Republicans should not become the party of hand outs. If you do not assist people in improving themselves you are only committing them to a life of poverty.”
Unfortunately, the ‘publicans believe that assisting people in improving themselves constitutes kicking them when they’re down and then cheating them out of what little they have.
It is indeed difficult to compete for voters of “modest” means with the party of the big give away. And Raptor, if the Republican party dumps the religious right (meaning de-emphasizing values), it is curtains for the party’s hope of returning to majority status. Again, it was the Democrats who, 4 years ago, were in disarray and were done for.
No, there is nothing seriously wrong with the party now. This was a perfect storm for the Democrats, what with unpopular president, unpopular war, financial crisis and idiotic behavior by some Congressmen. Soon, they well start making folks angry and the pendulum will swing.
The governors need to take a chill pill.
Just keep thinking that outie. Just keep thinking it.
You betchya!
awwls weelll!
Sounds like a plan!
The Republican Party should move farther to the RIGHT, emphasize those “values voters” even more. The word conservative should be modified by the word social — ALWAYS. Let’s get to the core of what’s really important and make sure every preborn is protected, no person is endangered by “the gay,” and the Constitution more closely reflects the Bible!
PALIN 2012, GO PALIN!
Unfortunately, the ‘publicans believe that assisting people in improving themselves constitutes kicking them when they’re down and then cheating them out of what little they have.
Indeed. The “trickle-down” economics has consisted primarily of the well-to-do pulling themselves up at the expense of our greater populace, then pulling up the ladder behind them.
Or, as Archie Bunker would’ve said, “tinkle-down economics”.
I dont know, just when you think the repukes cant go any lower…
…they do!
I think they should stay on that same path, and in fact, they should do what they do even harder and faster.
Yeaaaaah. That’s the ticket…
Everyone seems to believe in trickle down economics when the economy is in the crapper.
“We cannot compete, and prevail, as a majority governing party if we have a significant deficit, as we do” WITH FEDERAL BUDGETS WHENEVER WE GET IN POWER!
As long as God, guns and no gays is the platform of the republican party their going to continue to be a regional party with support in Appalachia and parts of the Midwest
“sunflower5
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Permalink
Republicans should not become the party of hand outs.”
AIG. Bear Sterns. Merrill Lynch …
“SolDevVB
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
Well said. Traditional conservatisim. Small government, low taxes, fiscally responsible, and socially liberal.”
And on almost all of those the Republics are exact opposite.
Bush cleared it all up today, with his statement that he was “a free market kind of guy”.
bth,
Hence the term neocon.
Can’t say the author of this op-ed piece minces words!
———-
Sarah Palin Will Never Be President — Trust Me
The small smear of red on the otherwise blue electoral map looks more like a minor bloodstain on a dirty Band-Aid than anything resembling a national political party. Who voted for McCain/Palin in bigger numbers than they even voted for Bush/Cheney? Only one shrinking group: uneducated white folks in the deep south and a few folks in Appalachia. Take away the white no-college-backwoods-and/or-southern McCain/Palin vote and the Republicans would have been approaching single digit electoral college oblivion.
Sarah Palin will never hold national office nor will any Republican at the presidential level for a long time to come. Why? Because America has uneducated jerks in it but is not a nation of uneducated jerks. The Republicans are done, hoisted on the petard of their own “southern strategy.”
The Republican Party is only a step away from becoming the fringe of the fringe, identified more with cross-burning weirdoes wearing hoods, folks like the Alaska secessionist party, all those gun owners stocking up on assault weapons before the “Socialist/United Nations/Obama/Muslim” conspiracy comes to fruition, than with anything remotely like a serious national political force.
These folks include outright crazies (such as Sarah Palin’s Assemblies of God pals who are waiting for Spaceship Jesus to rescue them and/or rooting out “witches” from their midst), white racists and a few not-very-bright attention seekers, including Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity etc.
The Religious Right, the racists, the anti-gay hate-mongers are now not only marginalized but thoroughly out of step with even members of their own former constituency.
more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/sarah-palin-will-never-be_b_143036.html
Sol unfortunately your platform is conservative it sounds more Libertarian, Libertarians arent conservatives, in fact many prominent Libertarians Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Penn & Teller despise conservatives as much as Liberals
The Republican party is and will likely be irrelevant for the forseeable future.
Their sort of hate and greed tends to be self consuming.
“Bush cleared it all up today, with his statement that he was “a free market kind of guy”. — phantom
You betcha
Kansas may well be the last strong hold of the uneducated jerks, with some of their counterparts in the deep south.
There are plenty of places for you enlightened folks to live then.
Why don’t you?
“There are plenty of places for you enlightened folks to live then.
Why don’t you”
Because we are having fun waiting for the day we can run you up the steps of your church and keep you in there.
Because we are having fun waiting for the day we can run you up the steps of your church and keep you in there.
==========
Hope you packed a lunch.
How do you mean that?
cause’ it’s going to be a long wait BJ.
My church doesn’t have any steps btw.
“Hope you packed a lunch.”
Yup. Bringin’ my kid too.
I don’t even go to church, but I do own a step ladder.
Maybe BlueJay and his marry band of fruit cakes can run me up that.
“cause’ it’s going to be a long wait BJ.”
Oh I don’t think so.
America is sick of greed and sanctimony. Witness the last election.
More? I bet I’m younger than every con on this blog except for one. And he won’t reproduce.
Face it, your folks are dying out.
Too nice a day for this.
Enjoy the political sidelines cons.
It’s morning in America!
More? I bet I’m younger than every con on this blog except for one.
————————
Not younger than me fruit loop.
If America was sick of “traditional” values we wouldn’t be having the California Prop 8 discussion.
We haven’t even talked about the other 28 states that have banned gay marriage.
This election was about the economy. The majority of Americans are under the impression right now that Obama’s plans are the way to right that ship. Enough of that majority will realize they are mistaken.
The Carter administration is the case study.
I really believe if you think this election cycle was some form of revolution you are grossly mistaken.
2010 will tell if I am right or wrong.
“Has GOP hit bottom?”
This? From a paper who endorsed for dog catcher, but couldn’t find a way to endorse a President?
Cowards!
“We haven’t even talked about the other 28 states that have banned gay marriage.”
You used the basest of human prejudice to make laws against a tiny minority of people who were not hurting anyone. Aside from making you FEEL a little bit better this accomplished nothing at all. EXCEPT to permanently alienate a large number of people from ever THINKING of voting Republican again.
Congratulations?
Historically, it just seems like a pendulum swing more than the demise of a party. How many times has an incumbent president’s party prevailed when the incumbent is not running for re-election?
Since Eisenhower, the only time an incumbent president was followed by someone of his own party was Reagan then Bush. Otherwise, since the late 1950’s, every time an incumbent President has not run, the party affiliation in the White House has changed.
Consider: Eisenhower followed by Kennedy. Kennedy/Johnson followed by Nixon. Nixon/Ford followed by Carter. Carter loss to Reagan. Reagan followed by Bush (one exception to this analysis) then Clinton–two terms followed by Bush. Bush two terms, turned over to Democratic.
Seems to be a regular rythym to it…change from party to party on a fairly predictible basis.
How do you explain the number of states that have banned gay marriage that voted for Obama?
“How do you explain the number of states that have banned gay marriage that voted for Obama?”
Well, that’s easy.
Religious bigotry.
Or more precisely, CHRISTIAN bigotry.
They’re kinda known for that.
See also: Slavery and Jim Crow. Preached from their pulpits.
And black voters dont see that?
What, they had to give up their eyesight to get out of slavery?
“I really believe if you think this election cycle was some form of revolution you are grossly mistaken.
2010 will tell if I am right or wrong.”
how conveeeeeenient to forget 2006.
Or does it take THREE elections to convince you?
Whatever. As JR said, enjoy your time on the sidelines.
GOP hit bottom when they ran 43, just took 8 yrs. for America to realize it.
Raptor
Posted November 13, 2008 at 1:03 pm | Permalink
“Maybe this will be a wakeup call to dump the extremist wing of fundies, and a return to the idea of less government is better.”
Maybe. I’m convinced the GOP lost its way when it abandoned its traditional values: smaller government, less interference in the lives of private citizens, lower deficits and debts, a belief in “clean” government that is also transparent.
I think a lot of voters saw the Republican Party of today as a bunch of second-string Democrats. If that’s all they are, then why bother? Why not at least be honest?
“What, they had to give up their eyesight to get out of slavery?”
You people try to make like this is the same struggle, but it’s not, obviously.
You trying to say the black people were genius for voting Obama, but stupid for voting against gay marriage? Make up your mind.
“rock bottom?”
Naw, we haven’t asked the GORACLE to lead any prayer meetings yet.
Sarah Palin urged her fellow GOP governors to be reformers who “show the federal government the way.” . . . . Let us build our case with actions, not just with words.”
What is the Lipsticked Pig going to do? Urge that America adopt the Communistic policies of HER state and nationalize the oil companies?
“You trying to say the black people were genius for voting Obama, but stupid for voting against gay marriage? Make up your mind.”
Nitwit
Not every vote for obama was a vote FOR obama. Some of them were votes against wingnut rule with mcsame.
Wanna talk about losers? I guess the gop just “overplayed its hand again”.
No wonder you used to be the blog’s dumbest poster
Oh, and btw…
If they ONLY voted for obama because he was black and they voted FOR prop 8 because their preachers told them too?
Yeah. They are stupid AND bigoted
Say… Did you tell us you were black?
“Not every vote for obama was a vote FOR obama.”
90% of the black vote was for Obama.
Enough said?
That’s not racist or nothing.
Chuckle… The Dums sure have a lot to say about what’s wrong with the Republican party! Since they are only happy when tearing something or someone down, it should be entertaining when they start turning on themselves,
Anyway, every move that Obama makes will serve to bring back the Republican party a little piece at a time.
Unless he moves center and dumps on the radical left. Which would be fun too.
heh HEH!
Pat Buchanan and some black Republican on Hardball.
The young, black Republican says the party needs to look at itself.
Meaning that the party strategy is clearly old, not viable, and not working. Reasonable sounding stuff.
Pat retorts that “Maybe you should look at yourself!”
Implying that this younger man’s party loyalty may be in question.
It’s civil war among the cons!
That’s not racist or nothing. –bleatwood
Nope — justice.
You can’t get 90% to agree on where the sun rises, but you can get that on if OJ Simpson did it, almost.
“After Simpson was found not guilty of double murder in October 1995, a Washington Post poll showed that only 24 percent of blacks believed he was guilty, compared with 71 percent who said he was innocent.”
‘Sup with that?
“Unless he moves center and dumps on the radical left. Which would be fun too.” — outlander
————–
Center is what I expect, it’s what Obama campaigned on. Only the far right would view any of his policies as far left.
He sees ALL stem cell research as worthy of funding and realizes the potential for cures and treatments. Government under Obama won’t stand in the way of scientific progress. Blastocysts left at fertility clinics are thrown away. If you don’t see that as destroyed, you are ignoring reality. With permission from the donors those will be used for research. Most people see that as a better use than simply dumping them in the incinerator.
Women have the right to reproductive rights and the right to make decisions about their body. The only thing Roe v Wade changed is that abortions are legal now. There aren’t greater numbers of abortions but they are legal and safer. Moving back to ILLEGAL abortions won’t happen. I hope our resources and efforts reduce the number of abortions to the lowest number possible, and increase the support necessary for women to keep babies when that is their decision. Reproductive education is a high priority! Pregnancy should only happen when wanted! We’ll be closer to that in America some day soon.
Every human is equal! Every human should be offered the same rights and privileges of citizenship. Just as blacks weren’t ever three-fifths human, neither are gays and lesbians less than 100% human deserving of the same rights as everyone else.
I know most Republicans have screamed “socialized medicine,” and worse about Obama’s health-care plan, but it isn’t. What a wonderful day when our country provides affordable and easily accessible basic health care for every citizen.
Public education that makes sense and gives the best opportunity to each child. Education is the key to eliminating prejudices and fears, the key to our tomorrow.
Obama’s tax plans favor most Americans and those not favored are the 5% of the wealthiest. I would guess that isn’t anyone who posts here.
Diplomacy might seem far left to some but to many it seems not only sensible but desirable.
If Obama accomplishes nothing more than inspiring Americans to be our best, we’re miles ahead of where we were!
He isn’t and has never been far left.
Of course, out of self preservation, the repukes might dump the far right religious wingnuts just to win a few dog catcher seats.
And that would be fun too……
Oops, my bad. They already have! hehehe. HAHAHAHAAH.
Republicans should take a good hard look at Obama, what he just did, and who he really is.
He’s NOT one of the old school black leaders. He is definitely not a Jessie Jackson or even his old preacher. Far from it. He represents what blacks have achieved since 1963. He is a new black persona, and that was what got him the Presidency. By basically ignoring the old school blacks, he was showing them he didn’t need their ways to make his place.
Where the Republicans are, is still being stuck in the political world of the old school. That, and half want more religion, and half want less. Palin proved that. I think if a proactive, Obama-like personality were to come along, it might put the party back on track. But after McCain and Huckabee, it doesn’t look too good.
why didnt the repukes nominate huckabee?
I guess he’s too far left? ROFLMAO!!!!!!
Or the mittster? Oh, that’s right. They hate mormons just like gay folks do, uh, now.
mcsame was by no means the right wing guy.
Why did your party nominate him?
Death wish?
Palin/Hickabee in 2012!
Hillbillies and snowbillies united!
Yesssssss!
Asshattery deluxe. What a waste.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
And norm coleman loses. Again.
“Norm Coleman’s latest EPIC FAIL. BWAHAHAHA!
Advertisements [?]
W3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUnciaec8O7EyUsr” target=”_blank”>http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/344…
ST. PAUL, Minn. – A judge has dismissed a legal complaint filed by Sen. Norm Coleman against his Democratic opponent, Al Franken, over a claim in a Franken TV commercial.
Coleman took issue with a Franken ad that called Coleman “the fourth most corrupt senator in Washington.” It cited a Washington ethics watchdog group that Coleman says is biased toward Democrats.
But administrative law Judge Barbara Neilson ruled Thursday that Coleman failed to show probable cause that the ad was false.
Coleman’s complaint was filed before the Nov. 4 election.
The two campaigns are now embroiled in the upcoming statewide recount in their close race. Franken spokesman Andy Barr is praising Neilson’s decision and calling Coleman’s lawsuit “ridiculous.”
Coleman’s campaign says while it disagrees with the judge’s ruling, it respects her decision and will continue reviewing its options.
————-
And the best part is from The Hill:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/judge-dimisses-cole...
*snip*
Judge Barbara L. Neilson ruled claims by a watchdog group against Coleman referenced in the Franken ads are “substantially accurate, if not literally true.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHA.
Suck on it heckie!
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted November 13, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink
Palin/Hickabee in 2012!
Hillbillies and snowbillies united!
Yesssssss!
================================================
Roadkill & Moosepie!
Playing one night only at the Deliverance Bar and Grill. Tickets $5.00 at the door. No refunds.
I’m thinkin’ ol’ norm just didnt PRAY hard enough!
Or maybe Jesus supports Al Franken? Hehehhe. HAHAHHAHA.
Any other explanation?
Center is what I expect, it’s what Obama campaigned on. Only the far right would view any of his policies as far left.
———-
Linda: Really. Good for you. If the most liberal senator surprises us and goes center, you won’t be disappointed. But boy will a lot of the leftist nutballs here be shouting for his head on a platter.
We bought a pig in a poke.
Obama needs to get down to Georgia and campaign for the Dem in that runoff against Saxby(what kind of parents did that) Chambliss.
Alaska looks like a lock for a Dem pickup. Even Stevens former pollster says so.
And I just have a good feeling about Minnesota.
That’s 60. The magic number.
It would mean NO gridlock. Obama and a Democrat congress could set up to freeze the cons out for the next 50 years!
In general Obama will be center as there is far too serious things going on for him to draft as a policy either far left or far right. There will be those whom will point to small actions in either direction as being too far.
The Republican party and my two cents, the ideologists gain too much power and control. Neoconservatives and social conservatives have destroy even the mere appearance of what the party once was. Religious extremists and delusional thinkers whom would be better placed on some soap box in the town squire. Than as guiding forces with in a political party have no business within the party. Their goals are doomed to fail and they have taken down the Republican party. Like a drowning man grasping to take with them anyone close.
The Religious Right having lost their core believes are trying to cause this country to lose its.
The delusional Neoconservatives having taken lessons from history that were not there to begin with.
Wish to drag the rest of us into their world where war is peace and wrong is acceptable as long as it is done in a sense of right.
Ron Paul and the revolution is the future of the party and its salvation.
“If the most liberal senator…” Please tell me why you think Obama is the “most liberal”…and be specific.
“We bought a pig in a poke.” — outlander
———
I didn’t. I studied his website, I even emailed when I had questions. Bet you didn’t spend enough time there to know you could ask questions and receive answers.
And, the campaign is over so you can drop the lie about the most liberal senator. Informed people knew it was a lie during the campaign.
It’s a tough time in America. I’m inspired to be the best I can, to do what I can, to help where I can. I hear lots of Americans are.
“Please tell me why you think Obama is the “most liberal”…and be specific.”
He either heard it on Fux News or read it on drudge….
It looks good that the Democratic candidate from Alaska, Mark Begich, will win the seat for Senator from Alaska. Ted Stevens will have more time to address his legal challenges.
How many does that make? 58, 59?
Makes me mad that so many still hang onto the lies….the stupid Spirit One Church is still displaying their sign stating that Obama is a Muslim.
Jesus, people are so dumb!
Mary, at least they are advertising so only those filled with hate and fear will be attracted to their “church.” Sad there isn’t a word that differentiates a place of hate and intolerance. Their advertisement is fair warning to rational, loving, kind, good people.
“We bought a pig in a poke.” — poutlander.
You sure did, in 2000, and 2004, wasn’t it.
Whenever someone makes a statement to me about how liberal Obama is, I always ask them to be specific. One person actually said today that the reason why they think he is so liberal is because he wants everyone to have healthcare….can you imagine the audacity of that!?! How dare he!!
“the stupid Spirit One Church is still displaying their sign stating that Obama is a Muslim.
Jesus, people are so dumb!”
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
I guess Holick the Heretic considers himself exemot from that one.
Didn’t Jesus warn about such false preachers?
Ole’ Fred (Phelps) isn’t doing too well these days, maybe “Pastor Mark” wants to fill that void once Fred kicks off.
Here’s an article with lots of facts and figures. It was published before the election but has some interesting trends that should worry the Republicans.
———
A New Electorate in the Making?
“snip”
In the 29 states (plus the District of Columbia) where voter affiliation is kept by party, the Democrats have scored perceptible gains since the presidential election of 2004 while the Republicans have suffered significant losses. To be specific, the number of registered Democrats in party registration states has grown by nearly 700,000 since President George W. Bush was reelected in November 2004, while the total of registered Republicans has declined by almost 1 million.
more complete with charts and graphs at:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/07/a_new_electorate_in_the_making.html
A bunch of 2008 election maps here:
http://kottke.org/plus/2008-election-maps/
I have said that Obama is my prez and I will support him. I however don’t operate under illusions and feel that others should stay informed. I have seen Linda and Mary challenge others to show where he is liberal. It is a fact. No doubts. Hopefully he will and it looks as if he has moved to the middle.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm
Every person with a computer can find an article (or more) to back up their own opinions.
———
From NBC’s Mark Murray
National Journal magazine is reporting that Obama was the most liberal senator of 2007, according to the vote ratings it does every year for members of Congress. Clinton, meanwhile, ranks as the 16th most-liberal senator.
But a bit of context here: National Journal used 99 Senate votes in 2007 as the basis for its rankings, and because he was on the presidential campaign trail, Obama missed a third of those votes. (According to the magazine, Obama voted the liberal way 65 out of 66 votes. Clinton, meanwhile, voted the liberal way in 77 out of her 82 votes).
National Journal’s vote ratings became an issue in the 2004 general election, when Republicans used the magazine’s ranking of John Kerry as the most liberal senator of 2003 to label the then-Democratic nominee as the “most liberal senator” — even though that was his rating for just that one year, when (like Obama did) he missed quite a few Senate votes due to being on the presidential campaign trail.
As National Journal’s editor wrote back then, “[O]ur magazine — or, more precisely, our annual congressional vote ratings edition — has become a Republican talking point in the 2004 presidential campaign. And that’s been a fascinating, and disconcerting, experience. Fascinating because we’re more used to being cited in congressional hearings than on the Today show. Disconcerting because the shorthand used to describe our ratings of Kerry and Edwards is sometimes misleading — or just plain wrong.”
Indeed, while Obama ranks as the magazine’s most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006.
Another question that might come up is why the magazine released its voting ratings now — just days before Super Tuesday. In fact, the magazine says it full congressional ratings won’t come out until March. But, according to the editor in a Q&A published in the magazine: “Back in December, we decided that we would publish the ratings of the presidential candidates as soon as they became available, rather than wait until our annual Vote Ratings issue on March 8. We thought it would be irresponsible to keep those scores under wraps during the height of the presidential primary season.”
As for McCain, the magazine says that he didn’t vote frequently enough in 2007 to get an overall rating. Per National Journal, “He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories. On social issues, which include immigration, McCain received a conservative score of 59.”
And like with Obama’s overall liberal score, rivals and critics could possibly seize on McCain’s social rating….
Full disclosure: This reporter worked and wrote for National Journal from 1997 to 2003.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/31/625886.aspx
‘Is Obama a liberal?’
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/16/Obama-lefty/
“Voteview.com, a site created by political scientists that plots lawmakers on a liberal-conservative scale based on their voting patterns, calculated there were nine senators more liberal than Obama in the current Congress.
…
In CQ’s calculation of party unity, which measures how often members vote with their party on bills where the parties split, Obama got a 97 percent rating last year. Ten Democrats had higher scores. On votes where Bush indicated his position, CQ found Obama supported the Republican president 40 percent of the time in 2007. That 40 percent rating put Obama in the middle of the pack for Democrats. In 2006, Obama voted with Bush 49 percent of the time.”
More at link.
And here is a well-written piece on the subject.
————
Taking Liberalties
“snip”
A more serious problem is that National Journal’s system imputes ideological content to votes that they don’t necessarily have. Each vote is scored as either “liberal” or “conservative,” depending on how the majority of each caucus voted. But these categorizations often obscure more than they reveal. Sanders and Boxer, for instance–as well as Hillary Clinton–received credit for a “conservative” vote by opposing a proposal by Joe Lieberman to establish an independent Office of Public Integrity for the Senate.
“snip”
So where does Obama really fall on the spectrum? No vote-ranking system can capture it perfectly, since ideology is as much about legislative priorities and emphases as it is about votes. But here’s a rough idea: In his first two years in the Senate, when he didn’t miss many votes, Obama ranked 16th and 10th on National Journal’s “most liberal” list. A separate and more elaborate ranking system, developed by highly regarded political scientists Jeff Lewis and Keith Poole, found him to be the 11th most liberal senator in 2007 and 21st most liberal in the previous Congress. Obama clearly belongs to the party’s liberal wing rather than its centrist contingent–he’s essentially said as much–but he’s not close to being the Senate’s left-most member. (The same was true of Kerry, by the way: He’s been ranked 20th and 12th in the past two National Journal rankings.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=08c25e0a-9b88-49a6-97f5-45114f3fff28
In fact, the National Journal is the only source I found for this ludicrous assertion, but I found many debunking it.
Also from my 9:54 pm link,
“Green, the National Journal editor, says voters shouldn’t rely on a single rating to determine a candidate’s ideology.
“There’s pluses and minuses to each rating system. If you look at a number of them, I think you have a pretty good picture,” he said.
Thomas Mann, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a political think tank, said they have limited value.
“This is a case,” he said, “where statistics can do more harm than good.” “
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 13, 2008 at 8:17 pm | Permalink
“If the most liberal senator…” Please tell me why you think Obama is the “most liberal”…and be specific.
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A candidates own website is a poor place to gather information about them. Actions speak way louder than words. In fact, it is the only thing that matters.
Here is an article about the action record of president elect Obama, the most liberal member of the US Senate.
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
cosmos, you think we need to bring some balance to that source AGAIN?
Linda,
No. . . if outlander can’t read it upthread, it’s not worth reposting
WASHINGTON (Map, News) – Although he frequently makes a point of finding something charitable to say about his opponents’ arguments, Sen. Barack Obama almost always ends up voting liberal.
“The arguments of liberals are more often grounded in reason and fact,” the Illinois Democrat wrote in “The Audacity of Hope,” a memoir published last year. “Much of what I absorbed from the sixties was filtered through my mother, who to the end of her life would proudly proclaim herself an unreconstructed liberal.”
Obama has a 95 percent liberal rating from Americans for Democratic Reform, a liberal advocacy group that ranks all members of Congress. Yet he is often portrayed as a centrist.
“His record is liberal, and his rhetoric is moderate,” explained Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics.
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Actions speak louder than words. But you all know Obama is a far left lib. It’s why you voted for him. Why try to deny it?
http://www.examiner.com/a-538596~Perception_vs__reality.html
okobserver posted November 13, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I have seen Linda and Mary challenge others to show where he is liberal. It is a fact. No doubts.
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Actually, the challenge was re outlander’s 8:00 post: “If the most liberal senator. . .”
It is a “fact” that Obama is “liberal”.
It is NOT a fact that he is what outlander claimed, “the most liberal senator”.
I wonder what Osama Obama is going to do now that gas prices have dropped?
Guess all those “pie in the sky” programs that will create millions of jobs is out the window.
Looks like Osama Obama may have to raise taxes on the lower and middle income tax levels to get his trillion dollars worth of programs passed.
Let’s see, and Osama Obama was elected on his campaign promises because of change??
Yeah change, changed his mind…
outlanders post of 10:18 p.m. is linked to an article dated: Jan 31, 2007 2:00 AM (652 days ago)
outlander, President elect Obama is a liberal. That is a very desirable quality. He isn’t the most liberal Senator. And, he campaigned as a centrist, will need to govern as a centrist to be successful. His term will begin January 20, 2009. I’m sure we’ll have many opportunities to discuss how he is doing at his job.
Al Gore: Enivornmental Solutions Equals Economic Solutions‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/al-gore-enivornmental-solutions-equals-economic-solutions
Regular
Posted November 13, 2008 at 10:25 pm | Permalink
I wonder what Osama Obama is going to do now that gas prices have dropped?
Guess all those “pie in the sky” programs that will create millions of jobs is out the window.
—
What makes you think Obama is so short-sighted to not prepare our country for any future high-priced gas? Obama has always said that it is ridiculous for our country to be spending billions every year for foreign oil. Why would that statement be any different now just because of a drop in gas prices for the short term?
Besides, anyone with half a brain would know that the US cannot depend on the goodness of the Middle East foreign oil to continue to be our eternal source of cheap gas for too long.
Obama is an intelligent person and he can see that if he can help to get the US off the dependency of foreign oil, the better off our future will be. And if he can create jobs doing it, why not?
At least he is willing to spend tax dollars on Americans and not continue giving tax breaks or subsidies to US corporations that only want to ship jobs overseas.
It’s about time we have a president who puts Americans first.
Regular – one place to save 10 billion a month is on Iraq. Let Iraq start to pay for their own war – they are sitting on a surplus of billions.
mom posted November 13, 2008 at 11:07 pm
What makes you think. . .
————
Multi-nic’d Regular doesn’t seem to “think” very clearly. Maybe he needs more time to recover from his stroke?
Maggotpunk, why do you give a f***? Your wish is for this country to be under Marxist rule anyway. You suck.
Obama is liberal…good! Some of you act like it’s a dirty word. In fact I’d much rather have a liberal prez that the bull-headed, “my way or the highway” conservativism we’ve suffered through for the last 8 years.
Conservative compassionism is a myth.
I see the INFERIOR one is down to his usual ’standards’ (sic) in language.
“Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -— several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven.” (Mark Twain)
“Religion is poison.” (Mao Zedong)
“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” (Napoleon Bonaparte)
“I never told my own religion nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another’s creed. I am satisfied that yours must be an excellent religion to have produced a life of such exemplary virtue and correctness. For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be judged.” (Thomas Jefferson)
“It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.” (Adolf Hitler)
“Your wish is for this country to be under Marxist rule anyway. You suck.”
Funny, but Joe started out the day chastising MP for being a hater….
Pot, meet kettle.
Not only the BDP, but the BBH! (Blog’s biggest hater!)
I watched some coverage of the Republican Governors Association last night and saw exactly what is wrong with the Republican Party. It is a complete lack of understanding of what just happened in this election.
These people were blaming their huge losses on two people – John McCain and George W. Bush.
Granted, these two men were not the best thing going in this election cycle but what the rest of the Republicans don’t get is that the American voters turned alot of the Republicans out – not just McCain.
These governors all sat around and talked about their message does not need to be changed – it needs to be marketed better.
By their own admission, these governors said the Republican party does not connect with the women, minorities, younger voters, people of modest incomes, etc. But yet they still insist the American voters want their message of social conservatism.
What part of reality do these people not get? When people are seeing their jobs being sent overseas in order for their company’s CEO to get a few more millions in his paycheck, this does not look good for the Republican Party who wants to make sure that CEO doesn’t have to pay any more taxes.
When people are not working, they cannot purchase homes, cars, household appliance, or send their kids to college. And what does the Republican Party do about that? They watch out for the Wall Street fat cats in order to make sure they don’t pay any more taxes.
When people are not working, it makes them angry and when the masses start getting angry, the anger turns towards the top elite level and guess what – that’s where the Republicans have placed themselves.
This is why the Republican Party is in shambles but the only thing I saw come out of their discussion at the governors meeting was ‘ their message is right – they only need to find a new face to sell it’.
Only fools keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
“…talked about their message does not need to be changed – it needs to be marketed better.” — mom
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The arrogance! They “think” (NOT!) that Americans are so stupid they can put a prettier bow on it and sell it. When Rove stated out loud and used as his method for getting bush elected twice: “half of Americans are of below average intelligence,” I couldn’t believe it would meet with success. It did — TWICE. Maybe if anything good had come from those eight years it would still work, since it is obviously still true.
More people are aware of how condescending the Republicans are towards our abilities to think. The youth particularly aren’t buying it! And, the more highly educated aren’t buying it. The Republicans won’t be able to repackage and pretty up the same old message and sell it to any more than the faithful, and they don’t have numbers any longer. As their “base” shrinks so do their possibilities of winning with the same policies of hate and fear.
I agree Linda. I really think the young people turning out to vote for Obama really surprised the Grand ‘Old’ Party. I had posted somewhere during the campaign that I actually listened to a Republican campaign worker state they did not even go to the colleges to register voters because that group never showed up to vote, so why bother?
And then when the Religious Right gets on their self-righteous bully pulpit and preaches to these younger voters – they really don’t connect with them. For one thing, the younger people are not as intolerant as the Religious Right.
But I did get one thing last night from the Republican Governors Association meeting – they are all buttering up the Governor of Louisiana Bobby Jindahl (sp??). I don’t know how many old farts I counted that were praising this guy like he is their next God – and they talked about the liberal media appointing Obama as the messiah…