With fewer Republicans having voted nationally Tuesday than in any election since 1980, the party faithful have to be wondering not only what went wrong but what to do now. Why did exit polls show only 28 percent of John McCain voters “excited” about a McCain presidency? Is the uneasy GOP coalition of economic and social conservatives on the rocks? The fracture over illegal immigration remains, too. “Pat Buchanan isolationist Republicans have little in common with Wall Street Republicans, and libertarian Republicans have little in common with the religious right,” said presidential historian Richard Norton Smith.
What Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., heard voters say Tuesday to the GOP: “Go back to basics, stop embarrassing them and ourselves, be true to our principles, and regain the majority by the virtue of our deeds rather than the eloquence of our words.”
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133 Comments
Well I’m glad that is finally coming out. This election was not a “landslide” with record voter turnout. Not historical.
With the nation so evenly divided, if one party screws up, their chance of winning is lower because their people don’t show up and vote.
How will they find what they don’t have?
A national party no more the cons.
An interesting article. . .
‘Strains Between McCain and Palin Aides Go Public
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6196407&page=1
“Several publications say she irked the McCain campaign by asking to make her own concession speech on election night.
The tension is likely to continue or get worse. Lawyers for the Republican National Committee are heading to Alaska to try to account for all the money that was spent on clothing, jewelry and luggage, according to The New York Times.
…
She defended herself against the notion that she is to blame for the failure of the McCain-Palin ticket.
“I don’t think anybody should give Sarah Palin that much credit, that I would trump an economic, woeful time in this nation that occurred about two months ago, that my presence on the ticket would trump the economic crisis that America found itself in a couple of months ago and attribute John McCain’s loss to me,” Palin told reporters in Arizona Wednesday.
“Now, having said that, if I cost John McCain even one vote, I’m sorry about that because John McCain I believe is the American hero. I had believed that it was his time. … He being so full of courage and wisdom and experience, that valor he just embodies, I believe he would’ve been the best pick, but that is not the Americans’ choice at this time.” “
“…..if I cost John McCain even one vote,”
A GROSS underestimate.
“…I’m sorry about that”
No you’re not.
Palin and the party are not turning on McCain as quickly as I had thought. But it is coming.
Caller to Rush fatmouth…
“Get out of our party John McCain! Go be a Democrat!”
Told ya.
American_Way posted November 6, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Well I’m glad that is finally coming out. This election was not a “landslide” with record voter turnout. Not historical.
—————–
If a person does not vote, then their opinion does NOT count.
Obama had a very strong win.
349 versus 163 electoral votes
53% to 46% (7% difference)
9 states (including NC) that changed parties.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/
In 1980, Ronald Reagan only won 50.7 percent of the popular vote. The Republicans held 55 seats in the Senate, and did not quite succeed in winning the House.
Did he have a mandate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1980
BlueJay
Posted November 6, 2008 at 12:37 pm | Permalink
Caller to Rush fatmouth…
“Get out of our party John McCain! Go be a Democrat!”
Told ya.
————————————————–This has to be largely in response to slander coming out of the McCain campaign regarding Governor Palin.
Seems to be that some staffers are looking at someone to blame other than themselves.
Like I said, the circular firing squad is forming.
Like Monkeyhawk said, “Fire, Ready, aim!”
Well, the number one thing is that you can’t out-Democrat the Democrats. You can’t support higher taxes, social liberalism, anti-business legislation etc… because the Democrats will take them to the nth degree. No, Republicans must get back to the Reaganesque principles that defined the party, contrasted with the Democrats, and made us the majority party.
I will remind you that just 4 years ago, it was the Democrats that were in disarray and who had no chance of recovering.
This too shall pass.
After the 1968 election there was a great deal of chaos within the Democratic Party. I suspect the same thing will happen now with the GOP.
I hope this is the time reflection and wisdom brings back everything that was grand in the Grand Ole Party.
I know many who think enough rope is now available.
But barring the return of The Grand Ole Party, I hope Palin and Joe are who they support as their tomorrow. That surely will ensure enough rope to hang those political philosophies that drag down the “Grandness.”
“Is the uneasy GOP coalition of economic and social conservatives on the ”
No, the GOP simply threw away economic conservatism over the past 6-8 years. Did Bush drive that, forcing Congressional Republicans to support his policy? I think so but I don’t know.
I just know that the Republican party at large abandoned one of it’s biggest sticks. Small government/economic restraint. They turned themselves into moderate Democrats. Until they reclaim the “Limited Government” mantle, and prove to the public that they mean it, the GOP will be weak. Could take as much as ten years depending on circumstances.
Heckler – fiscal irresponsibility seems to have been the hallmark of Republican presidents since Reagan. Remember HIS deficits?
B.J.
“Palin and the party are not turning on McCain as quickly as I had thought”
McCain turned on the party, many times, over the course of many years.
bth
Reagans deficits were not his doing. Congress, controlled mostly by Democrats during his presidency, demanded much to go along with his increase in military spending.
About 70 % of this country is Republican, it just doesn’t vote. The article is right, their are many different factions of us, I happen to be a Libertarian Republican, but I am a believer, I do think it’s wrong to induce labor, then chop the head off of a living baby. That’s just common sense, but I’m not a pro lifer. I believe in free markets, and capitolism, but I’m not some hot shot on Wal Street.
You see, we are the “normal folks.” We have 500 channels of nothing, or jobs, our kids, the internet. We are a slumbering giant with no big causes, no crusades as a whole. AND WE DON’T VOTE! Philabuster proof or not, the Dem’s do not want to awaken the everyday average American by going leftist extremist on us. Then we will vote, and their reign of power will end. But if they play their cards right, they can stay in power a very long time.
I for one, as a Marine, support President Elect Obama. I didn’t vote for him, but he is my Commander in Chief. Not only that, he is my Commander in Chief and we ARE AT WAR! I’m an American before I’m a republican. God, Country and Corps!
The best thing we can do is show America what we really are, that message has been lost for awhile now. We are “the folks.” We wish no one harm, want what’s best for the counry, we are hard workers, beieve in paying our taxes, just not too many of them. Believe in equal opportunity and hand ups, but not a free ride and hand outs. We are honest, good people.
If we rise above politics, we will win. If we don’t, the country will suffer, and our voice will be pushed out. We are better than Democrates, no offence, and we need to show the nation that fact.
No more nit picking, special prosecutors, let the Dem’s take care of their own, and we will take care of ours. Most importantly, we need to not be to this President what the Dem’s were to our last President. Or what the Rep’s were to Clinton. He wanted yin, they automatically wanted yang. And vice versa.
We need to be willing to lose through compromise in order to win a little. 51% of the country has no right to force feed the other 49% it’s agenda, no matter who is holding the 51%. Like Thomas Jefferson said, “democracy is but 51% of the population, forcing it’s will on the other 49. Jefferson was more of a “almost no government” kind of guy LOL… I love him for it!
I hope Obama can get something done with the energy crisis, end our dependance on foreign oil. The ball is in their court, we need to say “hey, run with it.” “GO GO GO GO” And then stay out of the way, offer help though of course, let our position be known, but when it all comes down to the nitty gritty… it’s on them, we CAN’T stop them.
President elect Obama has all my best thoughs and prayers. God Bless America!
About 70 % of this country is Republican, it just doesn’t vote.
NOT!
They turned their backs on the only real chance they had, Ron Paul. He was the only one from the GOP who could have beaten Obama or Hillary. They ran a corpse who was intended to lose (and probably didn’t want it anyway, hence the Palin pick). Bushco did their job of destroying American credibility and any amount of respect the World had had for us. That isn’t to say that the World doesn’t want to be like America, they just don’t like the World Cop mentality we have. I concur.
Obamaco will do its job of implementing a more safe and secure police-state America. We will enter a new phase under Obamaco and there will be much ugliness.
Obamaco didn’t win as much as Bushco lost. Know that. Perception is reality.
You percieve that Obama “took it all” when the truth is that American’s are just tired of endless wars, financial shenanigans and Bushco. It could have been anyone that beat McCain/Bushco, not just the “holy-man” Obama.
He won’t change a damned thing about Bushco and you’ll wonder why. And I’ll be right here, laughing, mocking and pointing at you.
Scratch that, this Obamaco Church is just that, a cult. And there are most that will just blindly follow him, wherever he may go. You’ll gladly give up your “civil liberties” if he chooses that you do so. You’ve already denounced gun ownership, are unarmed and well-prepared for Obamaco to do what it wants to you. And it will.
Do you really think that he sees you as “special”? Good luck with that.
With fewer Republicans having voted nationally Tuesday than in any election since 1980,
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now we need to get back to the conservatives we were when Reagan got elected.
BEFORE the RR got their hooks in. Small government, government out of your living room/ bed room, low taxes, fiscally conservative.
A new day is dawning for the GOP. I only hope they use it wisely.
“Heckler” –
Ronald Reagan submitted eight budgets to Congress during his presidency.
POP QUIZ!
How many of those budgets were balanced?
POP ANSWER!
ZERO!!!!!!!!!
In afct, as I recall, the submitted budgets were even more out of balance than the passed budgets.
Sol: You are wrong about the RR. They were a big part of the Reagan coalition. Before that, the Republicans were in the the political wilderness.
Face it. Without morals voters that is where Republicans will wind up again. Ordinary folks have to have a compelling reason to vote against a party that maintains it’s power by giving stuff away.
They turned their backs on the only real chance they had, Ron Paul.
Oddly enough, I agree with that.
I see more clearly the infighting of the Republican Party now that a few of you have posted the various opinions representing the factions.
GO PALIN! Go Joe the plumber!
There will always be 50% of the population in the “above average intelligence” group.
For those who <I.really think none of the failings we saw under W. happened under Reagan, or that the results weren’t dismally predictable, I give you the Onion, circa January 17, 2001:
Bush: ‘Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over’
January 17, 2001 | Issue 37•01
WASHINGTON, DC–Mere days from assuming the presidency and closing the door on eight years of Bill Clinton, president-elect George W. Bush assured the nation in a televised address Tuesday that “our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.”
“My fellow Americans,” Bush said, “at long last, we have reached the end of the dark period in American history that will come to be known as the Clinton Era, eight long years characterized by unprecedented economic expansion, a sharp decrease in crime, and sustained peace overseas. The time has come to put all of that behind us.”
Bush swore to do “everything in [his] power” to undo the damage wrought by Clinton’s two terms in office, including selling off the national parks to developers, going into massive debt to develop expensive and impractical weapons technologies, and passing sweeping budget cuts that drive the mentally ill out of hospitals and onto the street.
During the 40-minute speech, Bush also promised to bring an end to the severe war drought that plagued the nation under Clinton, assuring citizens that the U.S. will engage in at least one Gulf War-level armed conflict in the next four years.
“You better believe we’re going to mix it up with somebody at some point during my administration,” said Bush, who plans a 250 percent boost in military spending. “Unlike my predecessor, I am fully committed to putting soldiers in battle situations. Otherwise, what is the point of even having a military?”
On the economic side, Bush vowed to bring back economic stagnation by implementing substantial tax cuts, which would lead to a recession, which would necessitate a tax hike, which would lead to a drop in consumer spending, which would lead to layoffs, which would deepen the recession even further.
Wall Street responded strongly to the Bush speech, with the Dow Jones industrial fluctuating wildly before closing at an 18-month low. The NASDAQ composite index, rattled by a gloomy outlook for tech stocks in 2001, also fell sharply, losing 4.4 percent of its total value between 3 p.m. and the closing bell.
Asked for comment about the cooling technology sector, Bush said: “That’s hardly my area of expertise.”
Turning to the subject of the environment, Bush said he will do whatever it takes to undo the tremendous damage not done by the Clinton Administration to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He assured citizens that he will follow through on his campaign promise to open the 1.5 million acre refuge’s coastal plain to oil drilling. As a sign of his commitment to bringing about a change in the environment, he pointed to his choice of Gale Norton for Secretary of the Interior. Norton, Bush noted, has “extensive experience” fighting environmental causes, working as a lobbyist for lead-paint manufacturers and as an attorney for loggers and miners, in addition to suing the EPA to overturn clean-air standards.
Bush had equally high praise for Attorney General nominee John Ashcroft, whom he praised as “a tireless champion in the battle to protect a woman’s right to give birth.”
“Soon, with John Ashcroft’s help, we will move out of the Dark Ages and into a more enlightened time when a woman will be free to think long and hard before trying to fight her way past throngs of protesters blocking her entrance to an abortion clinic,” Bush said. “We as a nation can look forward to lots and lots of babies.”
Soldiers at Ft. Bragg march lockstep in preparation for America’s return to aggression.
Continued Bush: “John Ashcroft will be invaluable in healing the terrible wedge President Clinton drove between church and state.”
The speech was met with overwhelming approval from Republican leaders.
“Finally, the horrific misrule of the Democrats has been brought to a close,” House Majority Leader Dennis Hastert (R-IL) told reporters. “Under Bush, we can all look forward to military aggression, deregulation of dangerous, greedy industries, and the defunding of vital domestic social-service programs upon which millions depend. Mercifully, we can now say goodbye to the awful nightmare that was Clinton’s America.”
“For years, I tirelessly preached the message that Clinton must be stopped,” conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh said. “And yet, in 1996, the American public failed to heed my urgent warnings, re-electing Clinton despite the fact that the nation was prosperous and at peace under his regime. But now, thank God, that’s all done with. Once again, we will enjoy mounting debt, jingoism, nuclear paranoia, mass deficit, and a massive military build-up.”
An overwhelming 49.9 percent of Americans responded enthusiastically to the Bush speech.
“After eight years of relatively sane fiscal policy under the Democrats, we have reached a point where, just a few weeks ago, President Clinton said that the national debt could be paid off by as early as 2012,” Rahway, NJ, machinist and father of three Bud Crandall said. “That’s not the kind of world I want my children to grow up in.”
“You have no idea what it’s like to be black and enfranchised,” said Marlon Hastings, one of thousands of Miami-Dade County residents whose votes were not counted in the 2000 presidential election. “George W. Bush understands the pain of enfranchisement, and ever since Election Day, he has fought tirelessly to make sure it never happens to my people again.”
Bush concluded his speech on a note of healing and redemption.
“We as a people must stand united, banding together to tear this nation in two,” Bush said. “Much work lies ahead of us: The gap between the rich and the poor may be wide, be there’s much more widening left to do. We must squander our nation’s hard-won budget surplus on tax breaks for the wealthiest 15 percent. And, on the foreign front, we must find an enemy and defeat it.”
“The insanity is over,” Bush said. “After a long, dark night of peace and stability, the sun is finally rising again over America. We look forward to a bright new dawn not seen since the glory days of my dad.”
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784
Outtie,
With the mess we are in, we don’t need the government to dictate morals or values. Those are supposed to be left to the individual. Either you are moral or you are not. The government can’t make you be a good person.
If you went with true conservatism; small government, government out of personal lives, non-interventionism, strong national defense, strong dollar, what would there be to vote against?
Ron Paul had, and still has, it right. Ron Paul was the only true conservative that ran.
Rage, amazing that crystal ball the onion had back then in the days right before bush was inaugurated.
Rage, amazing that crystal ball the onion had back then in the days right before bush was inaugurated.
Crystal ball? Well, they were pretty close, but I think they were just going by what they saw in 1981-1992, and what W. has promised in 2000.
American_Way posted November 6, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Well I’m glad that is finally coming out. This election was not a “landslide” with record voter turnout. Not historical.
——————-
‘Obama adds symbolic NC victory to White House win‘
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gm2yiI1ldmLIuwjggDkdguj9Hp_gD949K5G00
“North Carolina’s 15 electoral votes brings Obama’s total to 364 — nearly 100 more than necessary to win the White House — to McCain’s 162. Missouri is the only state that remains too close to call, with McCain leading by several thousand votes.
Obama’s win in North Carolina was the first for a Democratic presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter won the state in 1976.
Of Bush’s 2004 states, Obama captured Virginia, Florida and North Carolina in the South, Ohio, Indiana and Iowa in the Midwest and Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico in the West.”
Outlander, the government enforcing “morals” is big government. Barry Goldwater once said the government should act like your sheriff not be your preacher.
Love the presrciptions from these doctors:
Heckler:
“No, the GOP simply threw away economic conservatism over the past 6-8 years. Did Bush drive that, forcing Congressional Republicans to support his policy? I think so but I don’t know.”
Sol:
“Now we need to get back to the conservatives we were when Reagan got elected.”
outlander:
“Sol: You are wrong about the RR. They were a big part of the Reagan coalition. Before that, the Republicans were in the political wilderness.
“Face it. Without morals voters that is where Republicans will wind up again. Ordinary folks have to have a compelling reason to vote against a party that maintains it’s power by giving stuff away.”
[outlander is correct, but for the wrong reason. Republicans need values positions to lure middle class voters into voting against their economic interests - think: What's the Matter with Kansas?]
Values Boy:
“When I hear the zeal of liberal pundits and Obama supporters, I’m reminded of where many Christian conservatives were eight years ago. We had helped elect President Bush to the White House because we felt the country was headed in the wrong direction. Though Bush isn’t a performer like Obama, what he said resonated with many of us: He was to be a compassionate conservative. He was going to create a culture of life. His tax cuts were going to support families and grow the economy. We were enthusiastic in our support, and we were a major reason Bush won. Now, it’s obvious that things didn’t turn out as we had hoped.”
[So, is Brent ready to admit that he got screwed very badly when buying the used car he bought? No? I guess he is not quite ready to face the truth.]
**********
In summary: conservatives need to be more conservative! If you guys believe that, it is an inescapeable sign you have not ventured out of Kansas recently enough.
Please keep believing and preaching the above. Doing such will insure your wilderness waundering for at least 16 years, if not much longer.
You cons need to really let fly. Vent!
At each other!
Ron Paul. I had forgotten the kook cons that had already abandoned the party. They aint never coming back.
The RELIGIOUS right has to be deeply unhappy with the GOP. NONE of their pet agendas have been advanced significantly while they have participated in the lockstep march of greed. They are slow to learn but are starting to get that they have been used and pwned. How much longer do they put up with it?
Let me know if they find a soul!
What we are seeing here is the collapse of the GOP coalition that Ralph Nader predicted in 1986. While he was off his mark in time by a huge margin, I really think the Democratic “Let’s be more Republican” Leadership Council prolonged the agony.
And by the way: Outlander is dead-on about what was. What will be, well, I guess we’ll see. If I sound arrogant, keep in mind I’m well aware of how much the two major parties have changed just in the past 50 years.
What a long, strange trip it’s been.
SEMPERFIGUY, Loved your post. I agree on much of what you wrote. However I do take exception to holler “Go, Go, Go,” then stand out of the way. You did say earlier that it is better to compromise, and gain a little, then to lose it all. My opinion, and hope, would be that when you holler, “Go, Go, Go”, you’ve already compromised some, so why not jump in and help? Two heads are always better than one (or most times I always say), so wouldn’t it be better to join forces when the problem demands it?
Heckler
Posted November 6, 2008 at 1:26 pm | Permalink
B.J.
“Palin and the party are not turning on McCain as quickly as I had thought”
McCain turned on the party, many times, over the course of many years.
–
And this was supposed to be McCain’s ace in the hole – that whole ‘maverick’ thing – wasn’t it?
Like it or not – McCain was running with the ghost of George W. Bush on the ticket and I believe nothing short of a miracle was going to save the guy. But what really did him in with the independent voters was his choice of Palin as his VP. This showed poor judgment and his pandering to the Religious Right.
Sarah Palin kept telling everyone that her life was an open book – so when the media opened that book and read it and reported all the details – she didn’t like it and complained about her First Amendment right being violated. This made the woman look stupid.
McCain picked Palin as a substitute to get the Hillary Clinton voters – and the American women proved they are not as gullible as McCain and other Republicans take them to be by rejecgting Palin.
The strange Republic Party coalition of business deregulators, fiscal tightwads, and illegal-abortion advocates devolved into strictly a one-legged stool.
The deregulators won and turned war into into a for-profit cash cow for Halliburton et al while turning Wall Street into a casino.
The fiscal tightwads were drummed out of the Republic Party (remember Bob Dole? Nancy Landon Kassebaum? George HW Bush?) by the attitude (The Big) Dick Cheney revealed when claimed, “Deficits don’t matter. Reagan proved that.”
And the illegal-abortion advocates finally realized they were being pwned by the GOP for turning up to vote for no results whatsoever.
The only way twice-born money-grabbers could keep those “Love Offerings” and prayer requests pouring in was to fuel flaming homophobia.
Thing is: gay happens. No one has no one in the immediate or extended family, or at work, or in the neighborhood, who is not gay. And it’s funny. After a while the old “Some of my best friends are black” shibboleth from the 60s (like the “Some of my best friends are Jewish” shibboleth from the 50s) comes home to roost.
I grew up in a little Kansas town where two “Old Maid” school teachers lived together. One of them baked cookies and the other could “…kick a soccer ball like a man!” And the rich old banker who (”…just never found the right girl to marry.”) had strapping young junior college boys do yard work and chores in return for room and board.
It’s really hard to hate people you know and love.
Time and hate are catching up to the Republic Party’s “family values” faction.
Really, we saw the cracks in the GOP coalition during this year’s Republic Party primaries.
John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) was the compromise candidate and soon became the compromised candidate.
Karl Rove and his minions drove the Straight Talk Express over the cliff.
You’ll see the internecine battle in 4 years, probably. But by 2016 there will be three parties for CONs and they’ll likely become as relevant as the Whigs.
Repubs are big spenders, it just who gets the bucks that’s different.
For all the values voters from the Religious Right, what they did not count on were the young people that actually showed up at the polls for Obama.
This is a group of people who are probably fed up with the older generation of so-called values voters who are nothing more than hypocrits and money grabbers and they do it all in the name of God.
Then Obama had the middle class voters who are fed up with corporations getting tax breaks when they ship American jobs overseas and then paying their CEO’s multi million dollars in bonuses.
The economy was the highest priority this year to the voters. What the Religious Right do not understand is when people are not working or are losing their homes, these same people don’t really care about the abortion or gay marriage issues.
I think the Religious Right will have just enough arrogance to think they can break away from the GOP and form their own party. And if the true Republicans are lucky, they will do just that!
Heh, not bad, Monkeyhawk! Some will take issue with your rhetorical shorhand, the basic truths are undeniable.
Fiscal conservative? Ahem: You’ve been the wilderness since 1980. YOu’ve just been pretending otherwise, because you so much hate the opposition’s spending priorities.
Social conservative?: You rail against activist judges, but campaign for them. Because you know your victories are at best temporary, so you look, quite naturally, to solidify them via Constitutional provisions, and judges who will interpret them the way you like. But, in case you haven’t noticed, at the federal level, judges are pretty much all you’ve gotten.
Libertarian conservatives?: You’ve been in the wilderness for decades. You think this is your time? Hell, give it a shot. Good luck with that.
Understand that what I personally seek is. . .understanding. Comprehension, not necessarily agreement. I think we’ll get there eventually.
The Repulican party has only itself to blame for its losses. If it wants to survive, it has a few changes to make.
First, it has to acknowlege the death of neo-con ideology and its imperial war and return to the fiscal and international responsibility of Barry Goldwater.
Second, it has to rid itself of the religious dominionists who want to turn the country into a theocracy, the racists who want to turn the country into an aryan reich, and the robber barons who want to use the country to enrich themselves beyond all reason.
Thirdly, it has to remember that its first loyalty is to the country, not the party, and be willing to work with the opposition to make this a better place for everyone.
If it can convince the people that it has truly done all three, it may win back its former respect. The party of Abraham Lincoln deserves better than the leadership it’s had for the last quarter-century or so!
We may grouse a bit, but really where would Republicans go? To the Democrats?
Nah, there is nothing like winning to bridge the gaps and make you feel all brotherly and that.
Republicans had an unpopular war, an unpopular president, a bad economy, scandals, media bias etc.. stacked against them.
Now it will the Dems that will be getting blamed for things beyond their control. Who will be involved in scandal (just watch) But because his line of BS is a mile long, I don’t see Obama ever getting really unpopular. So they do have that advantage. But the Democrat loss of seats will be starting with the next election.
Enough said.
“Phantom
Posted November 6, 2008 at 4:45 pm | Permalink
Repubs are big spenders, it just who gets the bucks that’s different.”
And they prefer credit cards so the Democrats have to figure out how to pay for their binges.
And they prefer credit cards so the Democrats have to figure out how to pay for their binges.
And, in turn, get blamed for higher taxes. What a wonderful bait-and-switch maneuver. I would normally call something like that “lame,” if the American people weren’t so incredibly stupid as to fall for it twice in 20 years.
P.S. I’ll amend that, maybe not twice?: Obama has been left with an economic meltdown, a 10 trillion dollar public debt, and a half-trillion dollar running yearly deficit.
So obviously, it’s socialism. Got it.
So was this a record turnout or not?
2008 turnout shatters all records
By ANDY BARR | 11/5/08 4:19 AM EST Text Size:
More than 130 million people turned out to vote Tuesday, the most ever to vote in a presidential election.
With ballots still being counted in some precincts into Wednesday morning, an estimated 64 percent of the electorate turned out, making 2008 the highest percentage turnout in generations.
In 2004, 122.3 million voted in what was then the highest recorded turnout in the contest between President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.).
Previously red states targeted by the Barack Obama campaign demonstrated remarkable turnout, setting records in North Carolina and elsewhere. Increased turnout was also reported in states including Virginia and Indiana.
Exit polls indicate that whites made up a slightly smaller percentage of the electorate than in 2004, as a surge among minority and youth voters aided Obama, who exit polls show won two-thirds of voters ages 18 to 29, 66 percent of Hispanics and 95 percent of blacks.
Although Kerry won all those groups in 2004, he did so with slimmer margins, taking 54 percent of the 18-to-29 vote, 53 percent of Hispanics and 88 percent of blacks.
If they still hold Reagan as the high priest of the party, they’ll make no significant changes.
Reagan was just bush 2 light.
I’m just glad the financial meltdown became so apparent during bush’s reign. Otherwise, if it had come to light in early feb. the repubs would’ve blamed obama, and we’d of had to listen to that for four years.
Don’t worry phantom. They will blame Obama when he tries to pay off their credit card bills.
That’s true. The adults have to do the difficult work.
Hey Blue Jay!!!!!!!!!
My man!
Fukc yourself. There’s a difference between being a Republican and a neo-con. You’re too much of a jack off to understand it.
Ron Paul is the only candidate that was out there who gives a fukc about you. Not your little Obama-stooge.
“kook-cons”.
Hooray, your guy won. I’m happy for you. But it’s just like “your team” winning the Super Bowl, what’s it exactly do you for you? Do you get a ring?
But don’t desparage my dude (who was ignored and tossed away months ago). He actually gives a fukc about the Constitution. Obamaco is gonna stick it hard in your as$ too.
Spirit Church, uh, the minister Mark something, on east Harry has on the marque: America has a Muslim president. This is against the bible, Lev. something, Was driving, couldn’t stop.
He makes all of us Christians look like hating fools. But then I’ll never change his mind, so let him stew in his hatred. He’ll have to answer to St. Peter.
Dennis
yellow – your example shows why “Christians” sometimes get bashed by some of us. This Spirit Church guy gives real Christians a bad name.
By the way – just why would Leviticus say that a country that did not yet exist perhaps having a leader with a religion that did not yet exist is bad? (even if his lie were true) Does Leviticus say that all countries must be led by Jews? (remember, that is Old Testament so Christianity didn’t exist yet either)
GOD HATES SHRIMP – Leviticus
GOD HATES CHEESEBURGERS – Leviticus
I thought Mark Holick got kicked out of something-or-other.
Maggotpunk, you’re the resident expert on this idiot. Comment when you have time, please.
P.S. By the way, I once lived less than a mile away.
It’s “Spirit One,” folks.
Holick has done some outrageous things with that sign, but is he still in charge?
Talk about a meltdown!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2127130/posts
Freepers are calling for a boycott of…Fox News!
Freepers!
Wonkette summarizes the the McPalin cold war so far.
With links and video.
http://tinyurl.com/6fjf66
Pleefer!
Loo ny tune!
Obama was not my guy. I voted AGAINST Palin.
“There’s a difference between being a Republican and a neo-con.”
Not from where I’m coming from there Sparky. Republicans are just as greedy but start fewer wars.
Your damned originalist interpretation of the Constitution takes it right back to the rich, white men it was written for.
I got the white part down but rich I am not nor am I likley to be.
I JUST drove by SPirit One. I was gonna post this on the open but since it is mentioned here.
“America we have a Muslim President! This is sin against Lord!”
Now that is WAY over the line. That church needs to lose its tax exempt status immediately.
I guess that line about “Thou shalt not bear false witness … ” doesn’t apply to preachers.
Pleefer, as someone who remember’s Ed Clark’s 1980 run for president, I would think there was some difference between Libertarian and Republican. But, judging by some of the dumb comments I saw from Bob Barr at the third-party debate on CSPAN, not enough to matter.
Ron Paul’s quixotic attempt to reform-from-within cannot be seen as anything but an absolute failure.
Maybe you should work on even taking back the Libertarian Party.
I supported Obama over McCain, but can anybody see what all this Obama mania is going to lead to. A big disappointment to the people who are betting their lively hood on one man, and not their selves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ5SVDYBNrY
Barnie, didn’t watch the video. Didn’t have to.
Not one man. Anyone who believes that is out of touch even with what the man was saying the past 2 years, let alone the reality.
It may seem naive and improbable, but Brother Obama’s whole thing was us. It’s easy to believe that it meant, “Ohhh, he cares about us!” Some probably took it that way.
Nope. If the f*cker really meant it, it means it’s up to us to take some role in governing again, and change the trajectory of this nation. It’s a “personal responsibility” message that doesn’t include getting on your knees and taking it nice, because just maybe you have some say in the social contract in the first place.
But he’s a politician. The “I can’t do it alone” thing isn’t just a political appeal for help–it’s essential for his political survival. It means realizing that we get exactly the government we deserve.
This guy obviously isn’t perfect, and I fully expect corporate America will have his ear. He’s at least offering to hear you too.
I would take him up on it.
Just My Opinion®
He said it about families too. Parents have to take responsibility for raising their kids. Parents have to teach them more than the teachers. The government can’t be expected to do it all. We the people have great responsibilities to go along with our rights and our freedom.
That is what Obama has said all along. If you don’t get that, then you haven’t paid much attention.
He’s right, the government makes a lousy parent.
I drove by Spirit One today and couldn’t believe the sign..so I called and left them a message about the hypocrisy of breaking the 8th commandment by spreading lies about our president elect. This is exactly how Chritians get a bad rap. I think we need to start a movement to get their tax exempt status revoked. What jerks.
That’s “Christians”
Mary – one thing that scares me is this: We look to churches to help in raising children and instilling values. Then we have outfits like Spirit One preaching lies and hate. Similar to the problems with Madrasas teaching hate in Pakistan etc.
Other churches should be concerned about this and demand that it be stopped.
If not, they risk being tarred with the same brush that Spirit one deserves.
Anyone got any ideas about what we can do to stop Spirit One from spreading such propaganda? It really isn’t right.
Unfortunately, as we learned with Pharisee Phelps there is little we can do about the hate-mongers. I’d like to see some Christians stand up to the hate-mongers in their midst.
What Spirit One wants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wanted_for_treason.jpg
I’m old enough to remember.
I have heard that the IRS is investigating Spirit one.
This is not the first time with them violating provisions of their tax exempt status. It is the furthest they have dared go.
I think this definitely forfeits their tax exempt protections.
Maybe we should blow up their phones with complaints?
“NO POPE HERE”
That was one of the lines used against JFK. In the Jim Crow south Catholics were not considered Christians. In fact – many clained that the Pope was the anti-Christ.
What about disrupting their church service with protests? How about picketing them on Sunday?
I don’t know if there is anything that can be done. They spread their hate and use God’s name to do it. There is no rational response to the irrational.
Probably just get them the attention they obviously desire for their hateful message. Kinda like the Phelps.
I have a hard time sitting by and doing nothing. How about putting pro Obama leaflets on the car windows of their church members?
The very least I will do is write a protest letter to the IRS.
I’d still like to see some Christians object.
Over on the open thread, I have asked the editors for a thread dedicated to Spirit ones sign. I’ve also asked for reporting on it.
This behavior on Spirit One’s part is unfair to other churches and tax exempt organizations that DO follow the rules.
Goes back to what Colin Powell said when he endorsed Obama –”I’m also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say. And it is permitted to be said such things as, “Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.” Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no, that’s not America…”
Letters to the IRS is a great idea! We should have a picture to include.
People who spread hate in God’s name will only be happy if their message gets any attention so I’m not inclined to give them what they desire. But a letter to the IRS I will do!
Would the Secret Service or Homeland Security be interested in the message on their marquee?
OK, let’s commit to a letter campaign to the IRS..I am going to take a picture to send along with it.
Something just occurred to me.
“America, we have a Muslim President”
Did george bush convert to Islam?
Is THAT why he has failed to get Osama bin Laden?
That’s another idea…their signs are vaguely threatening. Saying that Obama is a Muslim and the Bible forbids him to be president is really irresponsible considering the nut cases that must attend that church.
I really hate Christian hatred.
What would happen if someone egged that sign?
Hey, I didn’t know Obama was a Muslim.
Just kidding. That church shouldn’t call Obama a Muslim. Makes us look bad in the eyes of those who smear a religion over a single flake.
Let me ask you this. Would it be OK, I mean IRS wise, if the sign said, “Praise God, we have a Christian president”?
I bet you hadn’t thought of that had you, eh deep thinkers?
That is sad that Spirit One would stoop to such fear and ignorance. But what can you expect, we live in Kansas after all, a state where sinners flock, to cleanse their soul in the Bible Belt. It’s an image of Kansas that just attracts the type of people to come here and further perpetuate the image of Kansas as Christians God’s Land.
Well, the Pastor either knows that he is displaying a bold faced lie in front of his church that Obama is a Muslim, or the Pastor is really that ignorant, fearful, and hateful. Not very good Christian principals if you ask me. This is really sickening of all the backlash I hear on the internet towards Obama. At least we know those ignorant people are now the minority, seeing how Obama won the election by a good margin. It even amazes me to hear some people I actually know voice their unintended bigamist opinions of Obama. It’s making me question my Character Judgment.
So where do we draw the line? Is it Ok for a church to be threatening toward the president?
Seems to me if you make statements about God forbidding him to be president..that’s stepping over the line. Some crazy person will feel as though he’s being commanded by God to take Obama out.
The Pastor must have forgotten, or never learned that we have Freedom of, or from Religion in this country. I think it would do him good, if some people made a citizens arrest on character defamation based on a false allegation. Then took the pastor to a Muslim Church here in Wichita, so he can see real Muslims, practicing their faith in Peace.
More fun?
The sign is apparently a message from the church.
Do THEY have a Muslim President? Since when do churches have Presidents instead of preachers? And, if Spirit one HAS converted to Islam, isn’t there a way they could be less confusing about it?
I think the best way to fight racism, bigotry, ignorance, fear, and hatred. Is to mock them in the faces of the emotional polluters. There’s nothing funnier than to see the humiliation and shame on some a idiots face when they realize how much of a nutty jacka ss they are.
I plan to call the church everyday to complain until they change the sign.
It is pretty funny though, watching the liberals, some of whom have spread lies and hate about George Bush, get all offended when it blows back on their man.
Personally, I think the lies and hate are as ridiculous and divisive now as they were ridiculous and divisive with Bush.
But some don’t see it that way. I would hope that Republicans not lower themselves. Someone has to break the cycle.
As BlueJay accurately pointed out, the president is bush.
I will write to the IRS and maybe to Homeland Security too, but I won’t give them the attention they want. I’m always disappointed when I see something on television or in the newspapers about the Phelps shenanigans.
It’s a lie. It’s stupid. Just as posters here make the case for themselves — who they are, what they think and espouse, that church is advertising what they teach. At least the nutjobs will be the only ones attracted.
America, We have a Gay Pastor at Spirit One Church. Not that there’s nothing wrong with that, unless your God.
““Praise God, we have a Christian president”?
I wouldn’t have any problems with that.
It’s not inflammatory or a lie.
What Spirit one has on their sign IS an inflammatory lie.
There’s your sign, Now somebody be a good citizen, and make a few signs like that, and post them up around the vicinity of Spirit One. Fight Fire with Fire, lol
BETTTER idea Mary.
We could get a group to go there and ask to meet their Muslim President.
“It is pretty funny though, watching the liberals, some of whom have spread lies and hate about George Bush, get all offended when it blows back on their man.”
Really?…Gee, I don’t remember anyone calling Bush a Muslim and claiming God forbids him to be president. Bush was an inept leader…and that’s teh truth.
The term “swiftboating” started with the conservatives.
Really?…Gee, I don’t remember anyone calling Bush a Muslim and claiming God forbids him to be president. Bush was an inept leader…and that’s teh truth.
————-
So Mary, you are saying that perceived ineptness justifies hate. Want to stick with that one?
Off to bed..I’m so glad reason prevailed in the election, my faith in the American people is restored…maybe we can return to sanity soon.
Someone should start collecting the church’s obvious political messages and build a dossier to send to the IRS. Make sure the images are dated.
“It is pretty funny though, watching the liberals, some of whom have spread lies and hate about George Bush, get all offended when it blows back on their man.”
Nice trick that Outlander.
You have mixed
“lies” with “spreading hate”.
If you HAVE evidence of lies spread about george bush on this forum, now is the time to name names.
I am disappointd at how dismissive you are as to this. What that church is putting on their sign is a vile lie and a violation of the tax exempt status allowed them. Their transgression will hurt Obama less that it will other churches that stay within the rules.
Oh come on. No one likes my idea of making a sign that says.
America, We have a Gay Pastor at Spirit One Church. Not that there’s nothing wrong with that, unless your God.
The problem there Barnie, is the derogatory sense of the word “gay”.
I don’t care if the Pastor at Spirit One is gay or sees himself as a Muslim. I just want him to be more clear with the sign in light of the church’s tax exempt status.
“GOP soul-searching under way”
Like I said, how can they find what they don’t have?
Maybe a little brain searching would help?
We know now that Sarah Palin thought Africa was a country and not a continent and asked whether references to “South Africa” were as to the southern part of the African nation.
Sarah Palin ALSO is not familiar with the nations of North America that are members of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
Yeah.
There are?
Three. Canada, the United States, and Mexico.
The ignorance and self aggrandizement of Sarah Palin continued to the very end. SHE wanted to make a concession speech too!
Hey probably, McCain should have let her. Seeing as how she sunk the campaign.
I SO would like to read a copy of the Moose-Dresser’s concession speech. I hope she writes a book or puts up a web site and shares it with her fans.
“I hope she writes a book or puts up a web site and shares it with her fans.”
Oh me too, me too!
We know now that she wanted no help with her interview with Katie Couric and how splendidly she rose on her own to THAT occasion.
And it seems earlier speculation that McCain’s bizarre suspension of his campaign to rush to DC in order to keep lil Sarah from debate was correct.
Alaskan hockey mom’s gone wild is indeed something I look forward to reading even if it is in a comic book.
Palin 2012
She can dress herself!
Blue,
“Palin 2012
She can dress herself!”
She seemed to do that pretty well (on GOP credit cards) this time around- she’s an Alaskan Imelda Marcos!
Palin didn’t sink the McCain campaign… Bush sank the McCain campaign long before Sarah ever came into the picture.
The Republican Party does have a soul BJ. It just needs to re-invent itself to appeal to the new demographic makeup of the American voter. Just going back to their roots won’t do it.. the base is still there, but they need to respond to the will of the people. The world has changed, and so have voters. Even CNN said that we now have a Moderate-Left government, but the American people are still Moderate-Right. Obviously important issues like the economy can swing voters one way or the other.
This election was actually predicted by some Republican commentators in the euphoria of their victories in 2004. Not many, but some did see the indications of a Republican fall in the very arrogance of the behavior of some Republicans after they strengthened their hold on government. Bush 43 (aka Bush Lite) previewed that arrogance when he went from saying he would be a “uniter, not a divider” in 2000 to saying “I have political capital, and I’m gonna use it”. I agreed with these analysts, but I was honestly surprised by how quickly the turn around happened.
That being said, the Republicans are still not on the ropes as much as some here would like to believe. They still have the most committed base in politics, the Christian Right, and that is an advantage in any election where the public is by and large satisfied. Foul weather voters will crawl back into their holes, but now, if they come out, it will be against the Democrats. So, in either low or high turnout elections, the Republicans are likely to have an advantage in the next elections.
The seeds of the Republican downfall, however, are still active, and the Republicans can blow it if they learn the wrong lessons from the McCain campaign (e.g., the idea from CR Republicans that McCain was not a “real conservative”). A “real conservative” from the Christian Right point of view would have gotten trounced this election much worse than McCain did. The guy who won the Republican caucus in a general election would have turned Kansas into a battleground state. The Republicans are going to have to try to become a big tent party again, and that is not easy for any political party. The Christian Right, still the Republican party’s most reliable base, is also their most dangerous liability, because they inspire moderate backlashes.
Meanwhile, watch for potential fractures in the Democratic coalition. The fastest growing voting demographic in the country is the so called secular left, particularly among younger educated voters. But being the fastest growing demographic still does not make them (hell, us, I’m one of them even though I am not young) popular with the other demographics. The most disturbing factoid from this election is that a high turnout for Obama in California pushed the odious Proposition 8 over the top in a closely divided election. I think Obama is going to remain strong, but further down the line there will be some struggles for the soul of the Democratic party.
“Spirit Church, uh, the minister Mark something, on east Harry has on the marque: America has a Muslim president. This is against the bible, Lev. something,”
And grmie wonders why we libs keep bringing up the old testament? Uh, duh. Because your wingnut leaders use it everytime they have a wild hair?
When you stop using the old testament to write hate into constitutions, we’ll stop bringing it up.
Deal?
samkan – I agree that Bush sank McCain’s chances but whenever I brought that fact up in these blogs, I always heard ‘but Bush is not running’ line. Even McCain told Obama in the debate that he wasn’t Bush.
So now for you to sit and blame Bush entirely for the demise of the Republican Party is somewhat hypocritical – don’t you think?
Palin’s poll numbers were very high but just in ther Radical Right wing of the GOP. Palin actually drove people away from McCain after she had been on the campaign for only one month!
I noticed that all the hatred and racist talk did not start until Palin got on board. McCain did not go that negative until Palin put her mouth out there and got their supporters riled up about the Muslim, terrorist and un-American Obama.
The voters this time wised up and did not let fear and smear attacks rule their heads. Instead, this time the Karl Rove tactics of fear and smear backfired and landed square on the faces of McCain and Palin.
Jesus warned us about false preachers. Perhaps a sign with one of those verses should be put near Pharisee Houlick’s so-called church.
ksfg – one thing that frustrates me and my family is that heretics like Houlick give a bad name to good Christians like my wife. Then when we criticize such heretics we get accused of bashing Christians.
Jesus criticized “hypocrites” 19 times his the gospels.
He mentioned gays never.
He had priorities, people.
MH – and I seem to recall some criticism of the wealthy in there too. And, of course, money-changers in the Temple.
Here’s some perspective for you CONs.
http://tinyurl.com/6jkey7
Turns out, most of the ones bashing the Moose-Dresser are Romney staffers who joined McPalin to shore up his ignorance of economic issues.
You don’t want to cross them Mormons.
They’ll go all Marie Osmond on you.
They’ll go all Marie Osmond on you.
——–
Ha Ha! The Osmonds creep me out….(shiver)
Speaking of Romney – is he angling for a position in the Obama administration?
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/05/news/newsmakers/romney.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008110709
>samkan – I agree that Bush sank McCain’s chances but whenever I brought that fact up in these blogs, I always heard ‘but Bush is not running’ line. Even McCain told Obama in the debate that he wasn’t Bush.
So now for you to sit and blame Bush entirely for the demise of the Republican Party is somewhat hypocritical – don’t you think?<
Not in the least mom…. unless you can post something where I said that. (clue: I didn’t).
But what you say is true… Bush was not running.. unfortunately for McCain, that’s politics. When the voters are unhappy with a Prez, the whole party is going to suffer! I would have predicted when McCain was nominated that he would not even do as well as he did. The Republicans should be happy it wasn’t even worse. The good news is that this will force them to change.. hopefully before we all go broke.
sam – McCain’s problem also was that he didn’t move quickly enough to distance himself from Bush. During the primaries he bragged about how close he and Bush were. Then he compounded that by veering right instead of back to the center.
Barnie:
IIRC, I think Hollick was at Nabil Seyam’s memorial service at the school. I know Nabil spoke at Spirit One at least once.
McCain’s current problem is trying to blame Palin for the loss. He is too old to run in 2012. He shuld just take the loss like a man and move on. Instead he and his campaign are trying to save face at Palin’s expense.
Romney is going to keep that train going as well. For a little while. I think he is praying that she will fall outside the MSM radar and he’ll have a cleaner 2012 bid.
Mary_Caruso
Posted November 6, 2008 at 9:57 pm | Permalink
Off to bed..I’m so glad reason prevailed in the election, my faith in the American people is restored…maybe we can return to sanity soon.
**********
“so glad reason prevailed in the election.”
me, too…
“McCain’s current problem is trying to blame Palin for the loss. ”
And his agenda? Since you estimate he will not run again?
Palin IS the cause of the loss. Oh she was helped much by McCain’s dismal debate performances. But it is CLEARLY the Palin choice that done in McCain.
Any sniping on Palin won’t come from McCain. Maybe a bit from his staffers covering for themselves. But with nothing to gain in it, blaming McCain is silly.
It’s the Romney people shooting at lil Sarah.
We had a national IQ test on Tuesday.
Thank God, we passed.