Though it’s no deal-breaker, it turns out there is a constitutional problem with President-elect Barack Obama’s apparent choice of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., as secretary of state. “The Constitution forbids the appointment of members of Congress to administration jobs if the salary of the job they’d take was raised while they were in Congress,” reports MSNBC’s First Read blog. Not that past presidents have cared much about this roadblock, which, for example, Bill Clinton faced in nominating then-Sen. Lloyd Bentsen to be Treasury secretary. Usually, Congress just returns the salary of the Cabinet post in question to its level prior to the raise the nominee voted on, though some scholars say that maneuver still doesn’t clear the constitutional bar.
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67 Comments
Republicans will demand hearings for impeachment if this happens. Not like the Republicans were whining about Cheney and Bush both being from Texas thereby voiding the electoral votes from Texas in the election but since when did recent Republicans really care about the Constitution?
MH, the answer is Nov. 5, 2008.
You mean there’s more to the Constitution than the 2nd Amendment?
constitutional requirements seem to have little value today…a tragedy abetted by an apathetic citizenry
mh….do you ever take a break from your “I hate all Republicans” theme?
just curious
I don’t Raptor.
I can almost HEAR Ann Coulter.
“It’s a iolatshun of the onstitution! Imeach Oama i e aoints Hillary!”
Actually, that was a pretty funny line, Raptor! Lighten up.
“Raptor” asks –
“…do you ever take a break from your “I hate all Republicans” theme?
just curious”
I suppose I could someday. Like after all the CONs get over their “I hate Monkehawk” fixations.
Don’t see that happening soon, though.
What you don’t seem to realize, “Raptor,” is I’m a counter-puncher. I don’t fire the first shot. I don’t throw the first punch. I frequently hold a philosophical mirror up in front you CONs’ compartmentalized slogans and show you the errors of your ways. You guys hate that.
You attack me, I deflect the attack and bore in on the kill of arguments and illogic and absurdities you and your ilk profess. You attack “socialism” without knowing what it is. You’re afraid of “terrorism” without bothering to find out why it exists. You ignore science without realizing all your myths and stories and religious beliefs are metaphors for real-life lessons.
For example, it doesn’t make any difference is there were a real tortoise and a real hare who decided to race in Aesop’s fable. The truth of the lesson is there. But I’d feel pretty damned foolish if I found myself going door-to-door to proselytize my faith in the Great Wise Turtle.
“The Great Wise Turtle teaches us the female should deposit her eggs and hope a male might come by and fertilize them and all resulting offspring should fend for themselves.” It is written.
C’mon.
MH, since Rap has had a longstanding antipathy with the religious right, he’s not going to like some of those generalizations at all.
Just warning you.
Was it Unconsdtitutional for Nixon to appoint FORD to be VP — from the House of Reps???
Does anybody have the citation from the COTUS that shows Clinton’s appt. illegal??
Monkeyhawk
Posted November 27, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink
“Raptor” asks –
“…do you ever take a break from your “I hate all Republicans” theme?
just curious”
I suppose I could someday. Like after all the CONs get over their “I hate Monkehawk” fixations.
Don’t see that happening soon, though.
What you don’t seem to realize, “Raptor,” is I’m a counter-puncher. I don’t fire the first shot. I don’t throw the first punch. I frequently hold a philosophical mirror up in front you CONs’ compartmentalized slogans and show you the errors of your ways. You guys hate that.
You attack me, I deflect the attack and bore in on the kill of arguments and illogic and absurdities you and your ilk profess. You attack “socialism” without knowing what it is. You’re afraid of “terrorism” without bothering to find out why it exists. You ignore science without realizing all your myths and stories and religious beliefs are metaphors for real-life lessons.
———–
Chuckle. Good one Monkey!
I assume that is a parody of some self-important creep.
Counter punch? What was the first punch on the line today about a constitutional problem with the Clinton appointment? Who brought up the initial hate attack before you and mp?
Nobody. You are both spreading your hatred without provocation…again.
I rest my case. You can spin it all you want..you are full of hate and I actually pity you.
mh, you are so far off base it is pathetic. When have I EVER espoused any religous theory other than a passing interest in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Your generalizations of lumping everyone who doesn’t follow your ‘reasoning’ is once again flat out wrong.
your line of “You ignore science without realizing all your myths and stories and religious beliefs are metaphors for real-life lessons. ” has absolutely no basis in fact, but once again, since when have facts ever bothered you?
rage—prove it, you liar. Since when have I ever, ever once sided with the religious right?
“Does anybody have the citation from the COTUS that shows Clinton’s appt. illegal??”
Chas
The Constitution of the United States of America
Article I
Section 6
rage—prove it, you liar. Since when have I ever, ever once sided with the religious right?
Rap, I’ll forgo the snarky response and simply provide a dictionary definition:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:antipathy&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
One might think the prefix “anti” would have given you a clue. Oh well.
P.S. By the way, even though I was saying the exact opposite of what you’re thinking, I can still provide that example:
Sarah Palin.
Interesting that BlueJay can not gie is hate arest for even one day. Ann Coulter’s jaw is not broken. No matter how much you hope that a conservative pundit will be silenced, it’s still not broken.
Her real talent is her writing. Maybe you should hope that someone breaks her fingers! Just for you, junior, yesterday’s column:
______________________________________________
TERRORISTS’ RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME
November 26, 2008
I thought the rest of the world was going to love us if we elected B. Hussein Obama! Somebody better tell the Indian Muslims.
As everyone but President-elect B. Hussein Obama’s base knows, many of the Guantanamo detainees cannot be sent to their home countries, cannot be released and cannot be tried. They need to be held in some form of extra-legal limbo the rest of their lives, sort of like Phil Spector.
And now they’re Obama’s problem.
If Obama wants his detention of Islamic terrorists to be dramatically different from Bush’s Guantanamo, my suggestion is that he cut off — so to speak — the expensive prosthetic limb procedures now being granted the detained terrorists.
Far from being sodomized and tortured by U.S. forces — as Obama’s base has wailed for the past seven years — the innocent scholars and philanthropists being held at Guantanamo have been given expensive, high-tech medical procedures at taxpayer expense. If we’re not careful, multitudes of Muslims will be going to fight Americans in Afghanistan just so they can go to Guantanamo and get proper treatment for attention deficit disorder and erectile dysfunction.
After being captured fighting with Taliban forces against Americans in 2001, Abdullah Massoud was sent to Guantanamo, where the one-legged terrorist was fitted with a special prosthetic leg, at a cost of $50,000-$75,000 to the U.S. taxpayer. Under the Americans With Disabilities Act, Massoud would now be able to park his car bomb in a handicapped parking space!
No, you didn’t read that wrong, because the VA won’t pay for your new glasses. I said $75,000. I would have gone with hanging at sunrise, but what do I know?
Upon his release in March 2004, Massoud hippity-hopped back to Afghanistan and quickly resumed his war against the U.S. Aided by his new artificial leg, just months later, in October 2004, Massoud masterminded the kidnapping of two Chinese engineers in Pakistan working on the Gomal Zam Dam project.
This proved, to me at least, that people with disabilities can do anything they put their minds to. Way to go, you plucky extremist!
Massoud said he had nothing against the Chinese but wanted to embarrass Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf for cooperating with the Americans. You know, the Americans who had just footed — you should pardon the expression — a $75,000 bill for his prosthetic leg.
Pakistani forces stormed Massoud’s hideout, killing all the kidnappers, including Massoud. Only one of the Chinese engineers was rescued alive.
As a result of the kidnapping, the Chinese pulled all 100 engineers and dam workers out of Pakistan, and work on the dam ceased. This was bad news for the people of Pakistan — but good news for the endangered Pakistani snail darter!
In none of the news accounts I read of Massoud’s return to jihad after his release from Guantanamo is there any mention of the fact that his prosthetic leg was acquired in Guantanamo, courtesy of American taxpayers after he was captured trying to kill Americans on the battlefield in Afghanistan.
News about the prosthetic leg might interfere with stories of the innocent aid workers being held captive at Guantanamo in George Bush’s AmeriKKKa.
To the contrary, although Massoud’s swashbuckling reputation as a jihadist with a prosthetic leg appears in many news items, where he got that leg is almost purposely hidden — even lied about.
“Abdullah Massoud … had earned both sympathy and reverence for his time in Guantanamo Bay. … Upon his release, he made it home to Waziristan and resumed his war against the U.S. With his long hair, his prosthetic limb and impassioned speeches, he quickly became a charismatic inspiration to Waziristan’s youth.” — The New York Times
He’s not a one-legged terrorist — he’s a freedom fighter living with a disability. I think we could all learn something about courage from this man.
“He lost his leg in a landmine explosion a few days before the fall of Kabul to the Taliban in September 1996. It didn’t dampen his enthusiasm as a fighter and (BEGIN ITALS)he got himself an artificial leg later, says Yusufzai.”(END ITALS) — The Indo-Asian News Service
Where? At COSTCO?
“The 29-year-old Massoud, who lost his left leg in a landmine explosion while fighting alongside the Taliban, often used to ride a horse or camel because his disability made it painful for him to walk long distances in hilly areas.” — BBC Monitoring South Asia
Side-saddle, I’m guessing. And you just know those caves along the Afghan-Pakistan border aren’t wheelchair accessible.
“He was educated in Peshawar and was treated in Karachi after his left leg was blown up in a landmine explosion in the Wreshmin Tangi gorge near Kabul in September 1996. He now walks with an artificial leg specifically made for him in Karachi.” — Gulf News (United Arab Emirates)
Karachi? Hey, how do I get into this guy’s HMO?
They can’t lick leprosy in Karachi, but the Gulf News tells us Massoud got his artificial leg at one of their specialty hospitals.
Anyone who thinks the Guantanamo detainees can be released without consequence doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
COPYRIGHT 2008 ANN COULTER
DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
1130 Walnut, Kansas City, MO 64106
___________________________________________
COPYRIGHT 2008 ANN COULTER
DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
1130 Walnut, Kansas City, MO 64106
So she can’t talk, but she can still type.
Where is Tonya Harding’s boyfriend when you really need him? ;-)
(No, I’m NOT serious!)
Happy Thanksgiving Rage!
_____________________________
Where is Tonya Harding’s boyfriend when you really need him? ;-)
_____________________________
Didn’t he attack knees?
Happy Thanksgiving Hank and Family!
====================================================
#
HLP
Posted November 27, 2008 at 11:19 am | Permalink
Didn’t he attack knees?
========================================================
Isn’t that where Ann does her best work:-)
Happy Thanksgiving Hank! Have lots of turkey etc. I will have my third turkey dinner in a week in an hour or so.
My apologies, Rage, I read it wrong and responded in haste and was out of line.
Sorry about that.
Thanks, Ben!
We’re just about to go over to the neighbor’s house.
Joyce has made the pies and the sweet tators and Nathan and I only have to eat!
May everyone be as happy and content this day as I am! After spending the holidays with a son in Iraq every day I can spend with family and friends is twice as precious.
Our prayers are with those that serve today!
Hank
Hey, if we have decided it is ok to worry about the constitution how about that clause that says only those born in the USA can even take office as president????
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
“Hey, if we have decided it is ok to worry about the constitution how about that clause that says only those born in the USA can even take office as president????”
When has a foreign born citizen tried to run as President?
The Constitution of the United States of America
Article I
Section 6
Thanks Hud…
So I guess that means Nixons Appointment of FORD to be VP was also illegal???
“No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.”
I suppose the section in bold above is the item in question…. My only question is whether Secretary of State, a CABINET position, is a “civil office”. My thinking is that this would be the critical definition. (civil vs. constitutional)
So I guess that means Nixons Appointment of FORD to be VP was also illegal???
—————————
We all know that Nixon is “not a crook”.
Posted November 27, 2008 at 4:37 pm | Permalink
“Hey, if we have decided it is ok to worry about the constitution how about that clause that says only those born in the USA can even take office as president????”
When has a foreign born citizen tried to run as President?
–
Since when does the truth stop peole like bjb from spewing their lies? I’ve heard several Right Wing conservatives even go so far as to say President-elect Obama will not even win the electoral college vote. Now how they figure that one out – is beyond me.
But let’s not think for a moment that these people are not sincere in their beliefs – even though their beliefs have been proven as false.
Hill’s appointment will give rush some hate talk fodder, and all his ditto heads will be on here screaming and whining about that g*ddamn piece of paper.
Nixon’s appointment of Ford would only have been illegal had Ford voted on creating or raising the pay of the office–which is the issue here. There must have been a pay raise for SOS that the Senate voted thru.
No, “Raptor” –
The pay raise for cabinet members was the result of an executive order issued by Shrub.
This was covered in yesterday’s thread on this issue. Part of the tenuous nature of this argument is that no Senator voted for the pay raise.
The CONs are really straining at gnats here.
Ok…not that they voted on it, but the pay was raised while they were in Congress. I fail to see the significance here, as the lead says a quick vote fixes it.
Exactly, “Raptor” –
It speaks to the absolute desperation of right wing-nuts this post-election season.
Like the “was Obama born in America” tempest in a teapot, talk radiots and Fox Noise Channel are running around like chickens with their legs cut off, flapping their (right) wings and squawking.
bjb
Posted November 27, 2008 at 4:17 pm | Permalink
Hey, if we have decided it is ok to worry about the constitution how about that clause that says only those born in the USA can even take office as president????
“”Dr. Polarik” is a pseudonym and his identity is obscured in this video”
I see you are still stuck on stupid. That LIE has been thoroughly debunked. I don’t care how many times your “Dr. Polarik” repeats it. It is rather amusing that “Dr Polarik” is ashamed of his own lies and hides.
The governor of Hawaii calls you a liar. In addidtion, there was a routine birth announcement in a Honolulu paper. Was that part of the alien conspiricy too?
Bullsheet. I say we change the law so that its within a certain amount of time. Hillary didn’t plan to be SOS at the time it was voted upon.
“I say we change the law…”
Good idea. Let’s see to get the Constitution changed should take what, 5 or 6 years?
As for HRC being appointed Sec. of State. I think I’ve seen this movie before. Does anybody remember the fiasco that was Bill Clinton appointing his Attorney General? First He announces that Zoe Baird was going to be his nominee. After a while, she drops out when it is revealed that she has a little problem with illegal house servants who did not pay taxes. Next he sends up Lani Grunier who, it turns out also had a problem with her domestic help. Finally, with the New York Times and all the other Main Stream Media screaming their heads off, that the Republic was doomed if a new AG was not nominated and confirmed immediatly, Clinton nominated the hideous Janet Reno, who was actually the one he wanted all along and the lapdog Senate confirmed her with only the most cursory of hearings. By this method, He was able to get an AG confirmed who could never have passed the muster of a full Senate confirmation because of all the illegal things she had done in her past. Actually, wouldn’t it be deliciously ironic if HRC was used in the same manner that Baird and Grunier were to get someone else eventually appointed?
Yea right Chris. Look at all the hacks bush got confirmed by his lapdog Senate. You loved those; now you whine when someone you irrationally hate might get in.
Ben,
Your mind is open only to the Left, isn’t it?
Political_mama
Posted November 27, 2008 at 8:35 pm | Permalink
Bullsheet. I say we change the law so that its within a certain amount of time. Hillary didn’t plan to be SOS at the time it was voted upon.
================================
I agree, let her serve. It is only fair.
Sounds as if it is merely a LAW not against the constitution like Rhonda tried to argue. Talk about blown out of proportion. The congress votes itself a raise all the time. That should be unconstitutional. But they voted for an administration that wasn’t even theirs. So she should also benefit from that.
It would bar nearly any of the appointees who happened to serve and be most apt for the job, which is stupid.
And Janet Reno was a fine AG.
Bryan, don’t you EVEN cry about the constitution after the people you supported.
And Janet Reno was a fine AG.
==============================
Sorry, most of the US can not agree with you on that one!
RightAngle
Posted November 27, 2008 at 10:30 pm | Permalink
And Janet Reno was a fine AG.
==============================
Sorry, most of the US can not agree with you on that one!
***********
Because…. why?
The 51 day standoff and ensuing deaths of 76 men, women, and children–the Branch Davidians–in Waco, Texas.
Leak to the news media regarding Richard Jewell that led to the widespread and incorrect presumption of his guilt in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing. She later apologized, saying “I’m very sorry it happened. I think we owe him an apology. I regret the leak.” [12]
Seizure of six-year-old Elián González and his return to his father, who eventually took him home to Cuba; Elián’s mother had died in dangerous trip by sea, and though his U.S. relatives had lost custody to his father in court, local law enforcement had refused to act.
“his U.S. relatives had lost custody to his father in court”
That would seem to be pretty much of a settled deal, when the courts awarded custody to his father…. This has been a DONE DEAL for many years!!
“The 51 day standoff and ensuing deaths of 76 men, women, and children–the Branch Davidians–in Waco, Texas.”
What you conveniently leave out here, is that the NEW Clinton Administration inherited this boondoggle from the Bush I Administration…. This cant be put totally on Clinton or Reno… and besides, what does it have to do with Hillary being named S.O.S.???
Chas
Posted November 27, 2008 at 11:51 pm | Permalink
“his U.S. relatives had lost custody to his father in court”
That would seem to be pretty much of a settled deal, when the courts awarded custody to his father…. This has been a DONE DEAL for many years!!
======================================
I agree that it was the law but many in the US did not think it wasright or her placed to act.
His mother gave her life to bring him to freedom.
Raptor
Posted November 27, 2008 at 7:31 pm | Permalink
Nixon’s appointment of Ford would only have been illegal had Ford voted on creating or raising the pay of the office–which is the issue here.
=============================================
You mean you dont think, with ALL the years FORD spent in Congresss, that somewhere in that time frame, Congress didnt give the VP a raise??? C’mon…. take off the rose-colored glasses… It’s just another stupid ploy to try to stymie Obama’s start at the Presidency…
i still believe that there needs to be a determination as to whether the S.O.S. is a civil appointment, OR, a Constitutionally mandated position…. I do believe that would be a different situation…. i am not a lawyer, but, I think it is worth a look…
Sorry Chas, Reno was the one that screwed it up at Waco by approving the attack instead of waiting them out.
Raptor — Reno had no part in the COURT decision… She was not a judge…
I’m not going to argue the Branch Davidians… they were a bunch of religious nut freaks with GUNS… not unlike Jonestown… And they were determined to fulfill their own self-prophecy…. I did and still do believe that Reno, and ATF, and the FBI acted appropriately….
GOOD NIGHT; GOOD LUCK; GOD BLESS —-
WHATEVER YOU CONCEIVE GOD TO BE!!
BLESSINGS ALL!!
BLESSINGS ON THANKSGIVING!!
SO MOTE IT BE!!
Chas
Posted November 28, 2008 at 12:05 am | Permalink
I’m not going to argue the Branch Davidians… they were a bunch of religious nut freaks with GUNS… not unlike Jonestown… And they were determined to fulfill their own self-prophecy…. I did and still do believe that Reno, and ATF, and the FBI acted appropriately….
====================================
The FBI was the first to screw it up by not arresting the leaders when they went to town. No, they had to go in like Gang Busters. Then Reno could have waited them out. They could have put up a fence around the compound and maybe saved the children.
Reno was the one that screwed it up at Waco by approving the attack instead of waiting them out.
The problem with this is that shots were fired first from the compound, and then the ammunition was exploded and/or caught fire. There was no attack. The FBI WAS waiting it out.
Predestined
Posted November 28, 2008 at 12:55 am | Permalink
Reno was the one that screwed it up at Waco by approving the attack instead of waiting them out.
The problem with this is that shots were fired first from the compound, and then the ammunition was exploded and/or caught fire. There was no attack. The FBI WAS waiting it out.
=====================================
BS
On April 19, 1993, Attorney General Janet Reno gave the FBI permission to flush the Davidians out of their residence. FBI agents used tanks to smash holes in the walls of the building and then sprayed tear gas into the residence. Agents also used hand-held grenade launchers to fire more than 350 ”ferret” rounds into the windows of the building, but none of the Davidians obeyed the FBI’s command to exit the residence. A fire then broke out, and 76 Davidians, including 27 children, perished.
That incident—which is now referred to simply as Waco—has become the most controversial law enforcement operation in modern American history. Although the ”official” investigation of the incident now places all of the blame for the carnage on the Branch Davidian leader, David Koresh, numerous crimes by government agents were never seriously investigated or prosecuted. If those crimes go unpunished, the Waco incident will leave an odious precedent—that federal agents can use the ”color of their office” to commit crimes against citizens.
No Confidence – An Unofficial Account of the Waco Incident, by Timothy Lynch, director of the Cato Institute’s Project on Criminal Justice
Reno had been on the job 2 weeks or less. She operated on the basis of three or four months of the stand-off.
One of the reasons I respect Reno is she took the blame when it all went to hell. She could have just as easily passed the buck back to the George H.W. Bush administration and she took the hit.
What’s totally insane is how right wing-nuts embraced the Branch Davidians — a Manson family with more guns and less acid — as their martyrs.
MH,
Had the Davidians been homosexuals we would have a forced national holiday on the date of the inferno in which the federal government killed all of the children it ostensibly sought to save.
The RW loonies must think everyone should be entitled to have their own militia and hamlet and just be left to do whatever their cult leader tells them to do.
Wish Rush would take all his ditto heads and establish his own little Rushtowne outside of the country.
Damn.
I missed it when
“bjb”
Posted November 28, 2008 at 6:22 am | Permalink
“MH,
Had the Davidians been homosexuals we would have a forced national holiday on the date of the inferno in which the federal government killed all of the children it ostensibly sought to save.”
Sometimes, “bjb,” we get evidence that if it weren’t for synapse lapses you’d have no synapse at all.
In defending Koresh you show more loyalty to a child-rapist than the United States of America.
In defending the child-rapist, you ignore the whole Waco stand-off was the last blast of incompetence of the George H.W. Bush Justice Department.
But where in god’s green earth do you have to dig down to defend the child-rapist that your argument begins, “Had the Davidians been homosexuals….”?!
Let me apply your illogic to this discussion:
“Had the Davidians been Chicago Cubs fans, the Sox would’ve never made it to the World Series!”
Or…
“Had the Davidians been Macintosh people Bill Gates would be on Skid Roy today!”
But to lower myself to your level of critical debate let me tell you one thing:
“Had the Davidians been homosexual” the Mount Carmel compound would have had much more tasteful interior decor!
MH,
Stereotypical but probably correct.
And a place of liberal pilgrimage as well, like a certain fenceline in Wyoming.
From MH, upthread.
What you don’t seem to realize, “Raptor,” is I’m a counter-puncher. I don’t fire the first shot. I don’t throw the first punch.
Bullshit. Mh lies only to himself.
“GMC70″ –
Interesting assertion.
Got anything to, y’know, substantiate your attack on me?