Neither presidential candidate stood out in Tuesday’s dull debate. John McCain and Barack Obama mostly repeated the same answers from their first debate, and neither effectively explained how he would respond to the financial meltdown and stalling economy.
As far as the horse race goes, McCain needed a game-changing performance to stop Obama’s momentum, and he didn’t deliver it. By large margins, viewers surveyed said that Obama won the debate.
But viewers wanting specifics and a recognition of our new economic reality likely were disappointed by both candidates.
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For libs, they slept through McCain’s comments and already knew Obama’s.
Of course it was.
No questions on abortion.
During the primarys abortion questions were all the rage for the republican debates. But, Obama’s position in heavily Catholic states would hurt him if brought out in a debate.
No questions on gun control.
Obama is from one of the few states without CCH. Check the muder rate in Chicago. How’s that working for them? Let’s not ask any questions that highlite Obama’s extreme views on gun control.
No questions on ACORN, Weatherman or Obama’s other extreme connections.
All in all, a pretty safe and boring debate.
Yep, as okobserver stated last night, it was a snore fest.
I think the next debate should be between the VP’s. This ‘debate’ should involve a chain-linked octagon cage. Mexican Stand-off rules apply.
Go Palin!
Palin the ‘Impaler’ vs. ‘Plugs’ Biden has a nice ring to it….
I thought I saw the start of desperation on Senator McCain’s part.
Here is a paraphrased version of McCain’s part of the debate:
“And I’m the one who will not raise taxes. My opponent now says he’ll raise them as a last resort, or a third resort. But when a politician talks like that, you know that’s one resort he’ll be checking into. My opponent, my opponent won’t rule out raising taxes. But I will. And the Congress will push me to raise taxes and I’ll say no. And they’ll push, and I’ll say no, and they’ll push again, and I’ll say, to them, ‘Read my lips: no new taxes.’”
Wonder how that will turn out for him?
Here is a paraphrased version of Obama’s part of the debate: “I just said nothing, but I said it so well…and you idiots are buying it…..damn I’m good.”
HA!
For Hank, and all the other AGW deniers,
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2008c.html
QUESTION: Senator McCain, I want to know, we saw that Congress moved pretty fast in the face of an economic crisis. I want to know what you would do within the first two years to make sure that Congress moves fast as far as environmental issues, like climate change and green jobs?
MCCAIN: Well, thank you. Look, we are in tough economic times; we all know that. And let’s keep — never forget the struggle that Americans are in today.
But when we can — when we have an issue that we may hand our children and our grandchildren a damaged planet, I have disagreed strongly with the Bush administration on this issue. I traveled all over the world looking at the effects of greenhouse gas emissions, Joe Lieberman and I.
And I introduced the first legislation, and we forced votes on it. That’s the good news, my friends. The bad news is we lost. But we kept the debate going, and we kept this issue to — to posing to Americans the danger that climate change opposes.
Cosmos, you need to get a puppy or even a kitten.
cosmos probably raises blood-sucking leeches as a hobby.
What’s the matter ANTI? You can’t handle the fact that BOTH U.S. presidential candidates agree with AGW?
The next president will push for AGW legislation.
No Cosmos, I handle it just fine. I strongly disagree, but I can handle it.
Cosmos, I have noted that you have been posting on subjects other than AGW. I am proud of you, it shows personal growth.
Regular posted October 8, 2008 at 1:39 pm
cosmos probably raises blood-sucking leeches as a hobby.
————–
Actually I share my life with some cats, including several that were feral kittens a few years ago.
Actually I share my life with some cats, including several that were feral kittens a few years ago.
—–
Good Cosmos, to many strays are the pound or dumped in the country.
I’m sure my con ‘friends’ will join me in applauding mccain’s brave, bold, new inniative to buy up all those low income acorn mortgages, and renegotiate an affordable price, for the poor victims of corporate greed! Rock on John!
At today’s rally, mccain didn’t even let palin leave his side, she’s was closer to him than cindy. Guess he couldn’t afford to have the crowds walk off after the intro.
Actually I share my life with some cats, including several that were feral kittens a few years ago.
———————————————-
OK, cosmos, I’ll give you a pass for a few days. There is a little good in ya.
http://www.slate.com/id/2201764/
cats
But viewers wanting specifics and a recognition of our new economic reality likely were disappointed by both candidates.
I’d go along with that, but the stupid format–no interaction between the candidates, short times to answer, no follow-up–virtually guaranteed that both candidates would hit their talking points and not much else. I normally wouldn’t applaud someone for breaking the agreed upon rules, but when Obama insisted on a follow-up and McCain demanded the same thing, this showed that they had agreed to an approach that neither helped them or democracy. . .and I’m not talking about the town-hall format which, by itself, isn’t such a bad thing.
P.S. Having said that, I thought Obama did a good job of presenting an outline for what he’d do as president.
So who else supports mccain’s borrower rescue, and lowering sales prices to a more comfortable level?
Rage posted October 8, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“but when Obama insisted on a follow-up and McCain demanded the same thing, this showed that they had agreed to an approach that neither helped them or democracy.”
———–
Definitely, it was a stupid format. Some sections even needed a follow-up to the follow-up.
Phantom – I’d like to see that idea explored further. In fact, I think something like that is being done by the FDIC with IndyMac.
Phantom, while my memory may be a bit off, it seems to me something similar to Sen. McCain’s proposal is contained within the $700 Billion ($850 Billion) bailout/rescue law. Whatever, it is an idea worth further exploration and consideration.
A tip of the hat to Agnatha for the following link: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_2.html
which confirms my memory, and notes that Sen. Obama had endorsed (if that is the correct term) a very similar idea two weeks ago.
It’s already a done deal.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_2.html
“McCain added: “It’s my proposal, it’s not Sen. Obama’s proposal, it’s not President Bush’s proposal. But I know how to get America working again…”
But in fact, the recently passed $700 billion rescue package [link] already grants the treasury secretary authority to undertake just such a program. It requires the secretary to buy up troubled mortgages while taking into consideration “the need to help families keep their homes and to stabilize communities.” It also says “the Secretary shall consent, where appropriate (to) loss mitigation measures, including term extensions, rate reductions (or) principal write downs.”
Obama himself had urged this as the package was being considered. He said on Sept. 23 [link] that “we should consider giving the government the authority to purchase mortgages directly instead of simply purchasing mortgage-backed securities.” “
Update on OPbama’s posiiton
“McCain’s proposal to spend $300 billion in federal funds to buy distressed mortgages was a highlight of Tuesday’s presidential debate, and it seemed to catch Obama off guard. At first, Obama’s campaign said he had made similar proposals and there was nothing new in McCain’s remarks.
But after McCain aides offered more details Wednesday, Obama’s campaign shifted gears.
The plan would cause the government “to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money, and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don’t recover,” Obama economic adviser Jason Furman said in a statement. “The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud.”
The statement did not detail why the plan would fail. ”
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93MH2F00&show_article=1
“Holtz-Eakin said on a conference call Wednesday that the McCain plan could be put into place quickly because the groundwork and the authority for it has already been provided by last week’s $700 billion bailout bill, the Hope for Homeowners program authorized by the housing rescue bill passed in July and the government takeover of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”
In other words – it isn’t really new. Except for this part:
“”[McCain's] original plan relied on lenders taking the hit,” said Holtz-Eakin. “This bypasses that step.”
Instead, taxpayers pay for it, with the funding already provided by the $700 billion bailout bill.”
The original version required that the lenders take a hit – now McCain wants to protect them at taxpayers expense.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/08/news/economy/McCain_mortgage_plan/index.htm?postversion=2008100815
“Parsing the details
Some Washington analysts were perplexed by the McCain proposal.
“The proposal is hard to understand,” said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. For one thing, Baker pointed out, it provides even less help for targeted borrowers than the Hope for Homeowners program does. In that plan, lenders must lower mortgage balances down to 90% of the home’s current value, while McCain’s plan will reduce loans to 100% of a home’s current value.
And, of course, under McCain, the cost of the write-down is picked up by taxpayers rather than by the lenders. That is a radical departure from McCain’s earlier responses to the housing crisis.
“We have a very different set of risks facing the nation now, including the crisis in financial markets,” said Holtz-Eakin, “and it calls for a much more aggressive response.”
The plan is supported by Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, who says it could help stabilize housing markets.
“It’s certainly a positive for the foreclosure problem,” he said, “although it was already embedded in the Treasury’s bailout plan.”
Indeed, the bailout passed last week authorizes the Treasury to buy up as much as $700 billion in mortgage backed securities – but the bill also authorizes Treasury to buy mortgages directly.
Christopher Mayer, Paul Milstein Professor of Real Estate at Columbia Business School, isn’t convinced that the McCain proposal makes sense.
“As the plan stands now, it helps the people who got into the most debt, and it helps the lenders, but it doesn’t really help the housing market,” he said.
To help the market as a whole, according to Mayer, a plan has to target all mortgage borrowers rather than just at-risk homeowners. In an op-ed piece in the Oct. 2 Wall Street Journal, he and his Columbia colleague, R. Glenn Hubbard, he proposed that the government allow all residential mortgages to be refinanced into 30-year, fixed rate loans at 5.25% interest.
That would bring down payments for everyone, not just the borrowers most at risk, which would in turn help prop up house prices by lowering the monthly cost of homeownership. Many more people would benefit.
“A rescue has to be broad enough to help a great many Americans,” he said, “not just the ones that took on the most debt.”
On housing, McCain takes sharp left turn
Republican nominee’s mortgage plan bypasses the free market in favor of big government.
FLIP
FLOP
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/08/news/economy/mccainhouse_easton.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008100813
The picture at the top doesn’t say it all.
But it says much.
Senator Obama listened intently and politely as McCain spoke. When Senator Obama was speaking, McCain nervously wandered the stage, when he wasn’t interrupting.
Obama was measured and even in his speaking. Earlier in the debate, McCain doddered and stumbled. Later, he almost seemed to plead and wheedle his rhetoric. A good example?
“”I’ll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. “I’ll get him. I know how to get him. I’ll get him no matter what and I know how to do it.”
It was almost as if he was trying to convince himself and the audience that only HE can do it.
The whole affair was not so much boring as it was…kind of sad. It reminds of the final scene in “Inherit the Wind”.
John McCain very much wants to be President. It may be in his own mind he thinks he is the ONLY person who can be President. As he feels it slipping away, his desperation is washing away his dignity and stature.
It may even be depriving him of his capacity to reason.
A list of some of McCain’s negative campaigning, lies, anger, etc during the 2000 Repub primaries. (scroll down)
‘THEY STILL SAY THEY MET THE MOST WONDERFUL MAN! The New York Times keeps telling the tale about the once-great Saint McCain:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh100808.shtml
“I know how to get him. I’ll get him no matter what and I know how to do it.”
Sounds like “We know where the WMDs are … here … and here .. and over there … “
John McCain will never be president. Obama will be.
But most likely, after the fiasco of the Bush administration, the local dog catcher, if he were
“clean and articulate” would be elected over McCain. In my opinion, the Republican party bosses knew this, and threw McCain out there like red meat in a pen full of pit bulls., except McCain wanted it. He knew it was his last shot. They knew they couldn;t win. They rewarded (sorta) McCain for his years of service and trying.
Hillary would have been elected as well. Or Biden, or even most likely Sebelius. Anybody but Bush, asnybody but Republican. That would have been (and is) the mantra.
For the record, McCain is unfit. Palin is well, who the hell knows what Palin is. Obama is…the president in waiting.
When Brokaw asked McCain a 3-part question, McCain wrote some notes (the questions?) before answering — and had to read the notes partway thru the answer.
McCain also wrote notes at the very beginning of the debate. Why?
“McCain also wrote notes at the very beginning of the debate. Why?”
To remember his name?
If I had to bet, I would bet Obama would be elected. But I did notice that Zogby had McCain within two.
Negative campaigning = Republican telling truth.
On second look, this really stands out.
“I’ll get him no matter what and I know how to do it.”
Senator Obama had JUST said essentially that he would get bin Laden no matter what AND explained his plans. McCain jumped on Obama’s plan. Obama asked for a rebuttal and FURTHER clarified. McCain demanded his own rebuttal to say?
“”I’ll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. “I’ll get him. I know how to get him. I’ll get him no matter what and I know how to do it.”
There were no knockouts or thrown elbows. But close examination of the debate doesn’t show Obama winning the debate so much as McCain losing it.
In more than one sense of the phrase.
If current fortunes continue, the third debate will see McCain in a nearly hopeless position. How much worse he can come off, I almost don’t want to watch.
We use debate performance to help choose our president.
Yup. Then the president never again debates.
But close examination of the debate doesn’t show Obama winning the debate so much as McCain losing it.
Good description. No winner – only a loser.
You do know BlueJay, if Obama wins, you have a fine coming your way for being an irresponsible parent, right?
I do recall a big hang-up with the republicans is that they didn’t want a bankruptcy judge to make exactly this type of adjustment to principal.
What say Paulie? Still awaiting instructions?
outlander posted October 8, 2008 at 4:26 pm
We use debate performance to help choose our president.
Yup. Then the president never again debates.
———-
Debates give some insight into how the candidates think (or don’t), and communicate.
Do you want to be called “my friend” 21 times in 90 minutes, by someone that you don’t like? You betcha!! (wink! wink!)
Cosmos, my friend, that was such an inanity.
My friend, how many cats are you responsible for keeping alive and producing carbon?
A mortgage holder directed rescue plan might work if accompanied by strict regulation of CDS, like maybe they can only be one step away from the underlying security, would have to hold ample reserves, could not be used as collateral to back other CDS’s.
I heard a coupld days ago new issues of CDS were nearly non-existent. Bit late.
Good point phantom – I remember their opposition as well.
FLIP
FLOP
outlander
Posted October 8, 2008 at 4:26 pm | Permalink
We use debate performance to help choose our president.
Yup. Then the president never again debates
=====================================================
Actually, debates can point out both the good and bad of both sides. McCain was clearly under stress; look at the way he walked around all night, took copious notes (which by itself would mean nothing), even, at one time, walked over to Obama while Obama was talking. All of those show to me McCain is either very tired, or under some serious stress. He was clearly angry at times. I find, putting those together, his performance bothered me, and not in a “I’m wasn’t voting for him anyway” manner.
If he’s that quick to tire, I wonder about his ability to lead, and really wonder if Palin is right for the job. I have my problems with both candidates, but this one is too much to even think about voting for him.
#
Phantom
Posted October 8, 2008 at 4:53 pm | Permalink
A mortgage holder directed rescue plan might work if accompanied by strict regulation of CDS, like maybe they can only be one step away from the underlying security, would have to hold ample reserves, could not be used as collateral to back other CDS’s.
I heard a coupld days ago new issues of CDS were nearly non-existent. Bit late.
====================================================
I also wonder if, being as CDS’s were created to deliberately bypass insurance laws, if their creators, as well as many of their promoters, shouldn’t end up in Bubba’s 6X6. Justice served sunny side up.
JM not making excuses for McCain but a man who has had as many breaks in his legs as he had and one that went unset for weeks probably has a lot of leg pain. Sitting becomes very painful and if you will notice many people can’t sit for extended periods of time. I am one of those. Not restless or stressed just that the legs don’t hurt if I keep moving.
outlander posted October 8, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Cosmos, my friend, that was such an inanity.
———-
outlander, you’re not my friend — but yes, McCain’s and Palin’s debate performances were “inane”.
okobserver,
Re leg pain, that makes sense. And maybe explains why he sometime stood and leaned on the railing.
Valid point okob … and I know what you mean. (As I get up to stretch mine … )
Remember when Al Gore walked over to Bush when he was talking in their 2000 debate? Bush turned around, looked at him, nodded, and then went back to talking, leaving Al to stand there.
So Al was either tired or confused eh…?
I also didn’t know that walking around was a sign of being tired. When I’m tired, I sit.
Needless to say, we interpret things through our own life lens.
‘My Friends, McCain’s Tic Is Back’
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/10/my_friends_mccains_tic_is_back.html
‘”My Friends,” It’s Over’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/my-friends-its-over_b_132826.html
No excuse for not staying out of the camera focus when your opponent is up, whether you’re stretching your legs or not.
MCCAIN: And Senator Obama, by saying that he would attack Pakistan, look at the context of his words. I’ll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I’ll get him. I know how to get him.
I’ll get him no matter what and I know how to do it. But I’m not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Senator Obama did.
————
Attacking is not a highly classified secret. And OBL probably considers that it’s possible/likely.
‘Palin Contradicts McCain On Pakistan, Seems To Back Obama’s Position’
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/27/politics/fromtheroad/entry4483110.shtml
#
outlander
Posted October 8, 2008 at 5:20 pm | Permalink
Remember when Al Gore walked over to Bush when he was talking in their 2000 debate? Bush turned around, looked at him, nodded, and then went back to talking, leaving Al to stand there.
So Al was either tired or confused eh…?
I also didn’t know that walking around was a sign of being tired. When I’m tired, I sit.
Needless to say, we interpret things through our own life lens.
===================================================
I can understand that. Looking at things in a different way makes that understandable. Thanks, out and ok (Damn, never thought I’d write that under any circumstances!)
Still voting Obama, though:-)
“I’ll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I’ll get him. I know how to get him.”
Ahhh . . . what if Osama’s in Pakistan? I think McCain means if Osama’s in Pakistan, he’ll go get him. Kinda exactly what Obama said.
Those CDS and derivative operated like an insurance company without any federal regulation. Someone need to pay with jail time, except not sure if they broke any laws as repubs just hated to put any constraints on the free markets.
He knows how to get them, that would be by making friends with Pakistan and asking them to please cooperate.
Why hasn’t maverick publicised his solution? Will he not share with obama if he losses? Is this guy a patriot, or just self serving senator?
The generals in Afghanistan say Iraq methods wouldn’t work, the villages are small and scattered, so seize and hold isn’t doable, much like in nam.
The only technique that would apply is try an make friends with the people, and hire them not to shoot at you.
It reminds of the final scene in “Inherit the Wind”.
BlueJay,
I hadn’t thought of that until you mentioned it. Although McCain certainly didn’t have a total meltdown as the fictional Matthew Harrison Brady did, he was moving closer and definitely showed some wear and tear.
littlejohn,
On the “clean and articulate”, do you know if Biden was reading from a teleprompter or notes when he said that? If so, it may have said “clear and articulate”.
Interesting. . .
‘David Brooks: Sarah Palin “Represents A Fatal Cancer To The Republican Party”‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html
“Brooks also spent time praising Obama’s intellect and skills in social perception, telling two stories of his interactions with Obama that left him “dazzled”:
Obama has the great intellect. I was interviewing Obama a couple years ago, and I’m getting nowhere with the interview, it’s late in the night, he’s on the phone, walking off the Senate floor, he’s cranky. Out of the blue I say, ‘Ever read a guy named Reinhold Niebuhr?’ And he says, ‘Yeah.’ So i say, ‘What did Niebuhr mean to you?’ For the next 20 minutes, he gave me a perfect description of Reinhold Niebuhr’s thought, which is a very subtle thought process based on the idea that you have to use power while it corrupts you. And I was dazzled, I felt the tingle up my knee as Chris Matthews would say. ”
————-
More at link.
Reinhold Niebuhr???
Oh cosmos, I’m all giddy, but really thought you were going to say that Obama knew something about theoretical physics or the ’string theory’ or something that is truly intellectual.
Not some philosophical tripe about how “God is Dead” or the revisionism of history through Liberal philosophical squinted eyes.
Maverick.
We didn’t hear that one last night did we?
Told ya. You won’t hear it again either. In a few minutes, Sarah Palin took a mantle McCain owned and earned for years…
…and turned it into a joke. McCain isn’t helping himself with that either with his nasty attacks.
There are other, less lofty terms for one who acts as a maverick. John McCain may yet claim or them. Whether he means to or not.
Narcissist maybe?
Loose cannon?
Renegade?
What does he DO now? Go nastier?
Neither candidate gave details of their plans or lack there of, though McCain repeated the old and worthless statement that he would lower the taxes on the wealthiest people in the hope again the rich will throw bones down the hill to the poor and working class. But haven’t we heard that before and it has shown that is the poorest idea of stimulating the economy and does not work.
Obama though more detailed is still lacking enough information to make a sound judgment of whether it would work or not. His plan sounds good and sensible but so does winning the lottery and make or may not have as much chance of happening.
So it all boiled down to whether you want to hear someone that does give details as small as they maybe.
Or tell you simple-minded phrases and hollow sayings that may or may not mean anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Niebuhr
“In 2007 Senator Barack Obama cited Niebuhr as “one of his favorite philosophers.” Obama told journalist David Brooks,
I take away … the compelling idea that there’s serious evil in the world, and hardship and pain. And we should be humble and modest in our belief we can eliminate those things. But we shouldn’t use that as an excuse for cynicism and inaction. I take away … the sense we have to make these efforts knowing they are hard, and not swinging from naïve idealism to bitter realism.[5] “
I finally made my way to Rolling Stone and read the article on McCain. All I can say is ‘wow’. And that’s not a good ‘wow’.
“”You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one,”
John McCain was really off his game.
He could have made his point in that quiet voice of his with better measured tone and words.
He didn’t even look at Obama when he said it. That would have at least hinted of SOME respect. He stabbed a hand in Senator Obama’s direction and delivered this line with completely unmasked contempt. Only the bottom of the base can see that and not cringe.
BlueJay,
I say a play on the “That One” comment used on Obama’s logo. Instead of his name, it says “That One”.
Hey, the libs have a sense of humor. ;)
McCain has shown in both debates that he can’t look his opponent in the eye and be honest. So just how did he look Putin in the eye and see K G B?
McCain’s rude treatment of Obama in the debates shows that McMaverick is no gentleman. That’s not how I remember “Maverick” on TV. :)
MCCAIN: He voted for nearly a billion dollars in pork barrel earmark projects, including, by the way, $3 million for an overhead projector at a planetarium in Chicago, Illinois. My friends, do we need to spend that kind of money?
…
I believe that we have to eliminate the earmarks. And sometimes those projects, not — not the overhead projector that Senator Obama asked for, but some of them that are really good projects, will have — will have to be eliminated, as well.
———-
It’s for an upgrade of http://adlerplanetarium.org/exhibits/skytheater.shtml#night
Read comments from an Associate Professor of Astronomy at the University of Chicago.
‘$3 Million Overhead Projector? McCain Lie Shows No Understanding of Science or Technology’
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/10/3-million-overhead-projector-m.php
“cosmos_originally” –
I also liked the revelation of that grizzly bear DNA study that John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) ranted about:
Remember
“I don’t know if it was a paternity issue or criminal”?”
McCoot apparently forgot he voted for that earmark!
Saw that too Rox.
Just another case of the general trend this election season. The cons try so hard to kick that they end up falling on their butt.
We won’t see a poll that reflects this debate for another few days. I will predict that McCain’s negatives (not fit for office, unfavorable opinion) will move 3 to 5 points up just on this debate.
The beauty part? Out in con land, they want MORE such bizarre bad behavior. Next debate? Maybe McCain tries to physically assault Obama, or throw something at him I don’t know.
Just caught an Obama ad, now there’ a candidate that’s interesed in Kansas!
DEFENDING AMERICA
BY DAVID H. HACKWORTH
ARE McCAIN’S HANDLERS PLAYING THE WRONG CARD?
John McCain is being hailed by the press as a “genuine war hero.” But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his “war hero” status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?
For sure, McCain has the fruit-salad — a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.
On a purely medal count basis, he out-weighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.
McCain’s valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.
In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I’m still waiting.
I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield — where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as “boilerplate” and “part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnam-era) POWs.”
McCain’s Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 — the day after he was shot down — to 8 December 1968 reads: “His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…” of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.
Yet in McCain’s own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors “O.K, I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”
A Vietnam vet detractor says, “He received the nation’s third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!”
The rest of his valor awards — issued automatically every year while he was a POW — read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: “By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces.”
Yet McCain’s conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a “black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate.” This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the anti-war movement.
Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.
A former POW says “No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell.”
The U.S. Navy says two eye-witnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eye-witnesses, less himself and his captors.
And they’re not talking.
McCain has gotten a D (Not for Dam Good)for his record in support of Veterans issues from veterans groups
Obama and Biden got B’s (Not Bad)
McCain wants you to believe he supports our troops — his record proves otherwise
Channel 10 poll on the debate (may have been call in) gave the debate to Obama, I was surprised at that. Maybe Repubs. shouldn’t be taking Ks. for granted.
‘Obama Hits Hard on Efficiency Themes‘
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/obama-hits-hard-on-efficiency-themes/?hp
“It is not often that home weatherization gets discussed at the presidential level. Yet there was Senator Barack Obama at the debate on Tuesday night, urging Americans to save energy by fixing up their houses.
“Each and every one of us can start thinking about how can we save energy in our homes, in our buildings,” Mr. Obama said. His administration, he said, would incentivize Detroit to make more fuel-efficient cars, and would also be “making sure that you are able to weatherize your home or make your business more fuel efficient”. ”
More at link, plus link to ‘Debating the Facts on Oil, Nukes and Climate‘
More on what McCain called an “overhead projector”.
‘McCain’s planetarium problem‘
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/08/1518907.aspx
McCain has repeatedly taken his presidential rival (and Senate colleague) Barack Obama to task for seeking the $3 million earmark for Chicago’s Adler Planetarium. The 40-year-old projector currently being used by the world-class planetarium is failing, and it’s so obsolete that spare parts aren’t available anymore. Obama and other members of the Illinois congressional delegation sought federal funds for a replacement.
So what’s next for the repubs. mock home weatherization? Start handing out free caulking with Obama’s name on the tube?
Phantom posted October 8, 2008 at 11:03 pm
So what’s next for the repubs. mock home weatherization? Start handing out free caulking with Obama’s name on the tube?
———-
Maybe they’re going to announce that Sarah Palin will be McCain’s top national energy expert(sic).
‘Exclusive: Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin on ‘Hannity & Colmes”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434841,00.html
HANNITY: … Between the two of you, Senator let’s start with you, tell us what do you envision for the governor, as her role?
MCCAIN: Well, first of all she’s probably one of the foremost experts in this nation on energy issues. … And so I think that there’s nobody more qualified to take on our mission of becoming energy independent.
———-
That’s like claiming that someone who runs a large cattle slaughtering plant is the most qualified to be our U.S. health nutritionist.
HANNITY: … Governor Palin you have said that you’re trying, you’re working on Senator McCain on the issue of ANWR. And you said you haven’t had success yet, but you’re still trying.
…
MCCAIN: … Finally, this may sound a bit gratuitous, but at least because Senator — Governor Palin — Sarah Palin is so persuasive, I would like to come[sic] to Alaska, I haven’t been there in many years anyway, and maybe I’ll agree to go visit that area and have a look.
———–
Yeah, go take a long, careful look at all of those 1.5 MILLION acres. I suggest hiking across the ~ 100 miles, during caribou calving season. But stay inside your tent, if there are any caribou nearby.
Cosmos,
“Yeah, go take a long, careful look at all of those 1.5 MILLION acres. I suggest hiking across the ~ 100 miles, during caribou calving season. But stay inside your tent, if there are any caribou nearby.”
Wouldn’t do any good. They’d take one look at a caribou and their first though would be “Geez, that rack over my fireplace would really impress my buddies!”
Jed,
Calving caribou are very skittish. They might be able to shoot them from inside the tent.
Or from a long distance, with a good rifle. Or just drop some cluster bombs on them.
Obama, the Great Deceiver
How Barack Hussein Obama was trained in the methods of radical ways by Saul Alinksy, Bill Ayers, John L. McKnight and other radical philosophers and teachers.
1. Obama was a community organizer.
2. Saul Alinsky was a community organizer.
Obama is so well-trained in Alinsky tactics that he used to teach workshops on it.
Saul Alinsky is one of Obama’s heroes. In 1971 he published a book, “Rules for Radicals. Saul Alinsky believes in the socialism, redistribution of wealth.
Alinsky taught his proteges to “HIDE” their true goals by any means necessary. Lying was fine. The objective of Alinsky was to turn people against the white establishment.
“Barack (Obama) stood up that day,” talking about a visit to Chicago neighborhoods, “and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about “The world as it is” and “The world as it should be…”
And, “All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won’t do – that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be.”
Here’s an excerpt from Chapter 2 of Saul Alinsky’s book, Rules for Radicals:
“The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be.”
Obama’s friend Bill Ayers:
“Ayers in his famous 1970 statement, “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at.”
Bill Ayers gave Barack Obama his job at the Woods foundation where he passed out huge amounts of money to organizations which in turn that would buy votes for his runs at various political offices. Organizations like ACORN.
Saul Alinsky’s son has said, “Obama learned his lesson well” “…In Artful Dodger style, Barack Obama, plays down his mentorship with Communist author Saul Alinsky. But Alinsky’s son, L. David Alinsky, credits Obama for “learning his lesson well” from the Communist guru.”
Saul Alinsky, who literally wrote the book on how to subvert democracies into Marxist dictatorships.2
Barack Obama is a fervent supporter and prodigy student of Saul Alinsky.
Guuiliani on Obama:
(Interview with Andrea Mitchell)
“Giuliani—”This guy, educated in the Saul Alinsky methods. A good friend of Ayers. Very close to [Jeremiah]Wright. This is the most left wing candidate of the Democratic Party. Its ideology. Its ideology, Andrea. It’s not guilt by association.”
Psychopaths:
True psychopaths like Obama are often charming, seductive, and treacherous. They make natural con artists. Obama and in general the far left convince others (their followers) that a “higher morality” allows them to act without conscience.
Guess who recommended obama to Harvard?
“Obama approached Northwestern University professor John L. McKnight – a loyal student of Alinsky’s radical tactics – to pen the Harvard letter in the late 1980s. McKnight serves on the boards of radically anti-American groups in Chicago, including one accused of thuggery.”3
The Chicago-based Gamaliel Foundation lists McKnight as a board director. From1985 to 1988, Obama worked for a subsidiary of Gamaliel, where he cut his teeth as a community organizer on Chicago’s South Side. McKnight and Gamaliel, which was founded on Alinsky’s principles, provided training for the budding radical.3
Before leaving for Harvard, Obama wrote an article published in a journal titled,”After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois,” in which he praised McKnight and his organizing strategies.3
Obama is a dangerous, far left radical. Barack Obama is trained in the fine art of deception and has learned that lying is not a bad thing, but a necessary pathway to achieve goals.
Alinsky dedicated the first edition of his book, “Rules for Radicals,” to Satan
Folks, we do not want Obama in the White House. This will be the end of the American Society as we know it. Radicalism will become accepted and deception will be the rule of the day. What Obama’s agenda is, makes the Soviet Union style of propaganda look like child’s play.
If you love America and what it stands for, you need to alert everyone you know about the far left radical Barack Hussein Obama. Obama is the great deceiver.
1. http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-92191
and other embedded links in the document(s)
2 sodahead.com
3. World Net Daily Posted Sept 24, 2008
=========================================
edited for posting below
Obama, the Great Deceiver
How Barack Hussein Obama was trained in the methods of radical ways by Saul Alinksy,
Bill Ayers, John L. McKnight and other radical philosophers and teachers.
1. Obama was a community organizer.
2. Saul Alinsky was a community organizer.
Obama is so well-trained in Alinsky tactics that he used to teach workshops on it.
Saul Alinsky is one of Obama’s heroes. In 1971 he published a book, “Rules for
Radicals. Saul Alinsky believes in the socialism, redistribution of wealth.
Alinsky taught his proteges to “HIDE” their true goals by any means necessary. Lying was fine. The objective of Alinsky was to turn people against the white establishment.
“Barack (Obama) stood up that day,” talking about a visit to Chicago neighborhoods,
“and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about “The world as it is” and “The world as it should be…”
And, “All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won’t do – that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be.”
Here’s an excerpt from Chapter 2 of Saul Alinsky’s book, Rules for Radicals:
“The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be.”
Obama’s friend Bill Ayers:
“Ayers in his famous 1970 statement, “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at.”
Bill Ayers gave Barack Obama his job at the Woods foundation where Obama passed out huge amounts of money to organizations which in turn that would buy votes for his runs at various political offices. Organizations like ACORN received funds from the Woods Foundation.
Saul Alinsky’s son has said, “Obama learned his lesson well” “…In Artful Dodger style,
Barack Obama, plays down his mentorship with Communist author Saul Alinsky. But Alinsky’s son, L. David Alinsky, credits Obama for “learning his lesson well” from the Communist guru.”
Saul Alinsky, who literally wrote the book on how to subvert democracies into Marxist
dictatorships.2
Barack Obama is a fervent supporter and prodigy student of Saul Alinsky.
Guuiliani on Obama
(Interview with Andrea Mitchell)
“Giuliani—”This guy, educated in the Saul Alinsky methods. A good friend of Ayers. Very close to [Jeremiah]Wright. This is the most left wing candidate of the Democratic Party. Its ideology. Its ideology, Andrea. It’s not guilt by association.”
Psychopaths
True psychopaths like Obama are often charming, seductive, and treacherous. They make natural con artists. Obama and in general the far left convince others (their followers) that a “higher morality” allows them to act without conscience.
Guess who recommended obama to Harvard?
“Obama approached Northwestern University professor John L. McKnight – a loyal student of Alinsky’s radical tactics – to pen the Harvard letter in the late 1980s. McKnight serves on the boards of radically anti-American groups in Chicago, including one accused of thuggery.”3
The Chicago-based Gamaliel Foundation lists McKnight as a board director. From 1985 to 1988, Obama worked for a subsidiary of Gamaliel, where he cut his teeth as a community organizer on Chicago’s South Side. McKnight and Gamaliel, which was founded on Alinsky’s principles, provided training for the budding radical.3
Before leaving for Harvard, Obama wrote an article published in a journal titled, “After
Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois,” in which he praised McKnight and his organizing strategies.3
Obama is a dangerous, far left radical. Barack Obama is trained in the fine art of deception and has learned that lying is not a bad thing, but a necessary pathway to achieve goals.
Alinsky dedicated the first edition of his book, “Rules for Radicals,” to Satan
Folks, we do not want Obama in the White House. This will be the end of the American Society as we know it. Radicalism will become accepted and deception will be the rule of the day. What Obama’s agenda is, makes the Soviet Union style of propaganda look like child’s play.
If you love America and what it stands for, you need to alert everyone you know about the far left radical Barack Hussein Obama. Obama is the great deceiver.
1. http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-92191
and other embedded links in the document(s)
2 sodahead.com
3. World Net Daily Posted Sept 24, 2008
‘Giuliani ties Obama to Saul Alinsky on Morning Joe…And manages to lie in less than 30 seconds.’
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/7/9646/16637
First Ayers.
Then Wright.
It looks like Saul Alinsky is on today’s McCain TP Memo.
Mr. Mayor made a fool of himself on Morning Joe, and the transcript shows how Andrea Mitchell and Mika Brzezinski called him out.
…
Giuliani—”This guy, educated in the Saul Alinsky methods. A good friend of Ayers.
…
Mitchell—”But Mr. Mayor, the NY Times said he was not a good friend.
…
Giuliani—”I didn’t say he was a friend. I said…”
Brzezinski—”What are you saying?”
Mitchell—”"You said he was a good friend.”
…
Giuliani—”He was a bomber…they sat on a board for 3 years together and gave away millions of dollars to housing projects. That was the relationship. I don’t know if it was a friendship or not.“
Obama’s Alinsky Lessons
Barack Obama had just graduated from Columbia and was looking for a job. Some white leftists were looking for someone who could recruit in a black neighborhood in the south side of Chicago.
Obama answered a help-wanted ad for a position as a community organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago. Obama was 24 years old, unmarried, very accustomed to a vagabond existence, and according to his memoir, searching for a genuine African-American community.
Both the CCRC and the DCP were built on the Alinsky model of community agitation, wherein paid organizers learned how to “rub raw the sores of discontent,” in Alinsky’s words.
One of Obama’s early mentors in the Alinsky method was Mike Kruglik, who had this to say
to an Ryan Lizza of The New Republic, about Obama:
“He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a room full
of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue, nudging them to admit that they
were not living up to their own standards. As with the panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing, sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better.”
The agitator’s job, according to Alinsky, is first to bring folks to the “realization” that they are indeed miserable, that their misery is the fault of unresponsive governments or greedy corporations, then help them to bond together to demand what they deserve, and to make such an almighty stink that the dastardly governments and
corporations will see imminent “self-interest” in granting whatever it is that will cause the harassment to cease.
In these methods, euphemistically labeled “community organizing,” Obama had a four-year
education, which he often says was the best education he ever got anywhere.
Is it any wonder, then, that Obama’s Alinsky Jujitsu is making mincemeat of the woman
who merely interviewed Alinsky, wrote about him, and spent the next 30 years in corporate law and in the lap of taxpayer-funded luxury in government mansions?
Obama Not Starry-Eyed Like His Followers
Alinsky considered himself a realist above all, the ultimate pragmatist. As a confirmed
atheist, Alinsky believed that the here and now is all there is, and therefore had no qualms about assorted versions of morality in the pursuit of worldly power. He didn’t coddle his radical acolytes or encourage their bourgeois distinctions between good and evil when it came to transferring power from the Haves to the Have Nots. Alinsky saw the already formed church communities as being the perfect springboards for agitation and creating bonds for demanding goods and services.
When Obama first undertook his agitating work in Chicago’s South Side poor neighborhoods, he was un-churched. Yet his office was in a Church and most of the folks he needed to agitate and organize were Church people — pastors and congregants — who took their churches and their church-going very seriously. So, this became a problem for the young agnostic, who had been exposed to very little religion in his life. Again and again, he was asked by pastors and church ladies, “Where do you go to Church, young
man?” It was a question he dodged for a while, but finally he relented and joined a church.
Not just any church, but a huge black nationalist church with a pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who unabashedly preaches a “black” gospel. Rolling Stone Magazine ran with a story on Obama and his church, entitled, “Destiny’s Child,” which included this excerpt from one of Rev. Wright’s sermons: “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college,” he intones.
“Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!”
“We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!”
The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: “And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S**T!”
This doesn’t sound like any church in which I’ve ever worshipped, but perhaps I have led a sheltered life. Reverend Wright, whom Obama called his spiritual mentor and still claims is his sounding board, has taken trips abroad with none other than Louis Farrakhan. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan received the “Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright,Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer” Award at the 2007 Trumpet Gala at the the United Church of Christ. Wright was even reported to be a former Muslim. One might be led to wonder if this “church” isn’t all it makes itself out to be.
Among some of the black nationalist signs hanging in this church are a list of admonishments to black solidarity, called the “Black Value System,” and a sort of moral code calling for the “Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness.” I don’t recall the Ten Commandments or anything at all in the Gospel about race, so this seems a bit
strange.
But Obama isn’t starry-eyed when it comes to protecting himself from the possibility of bad press regarding his church affiliation. When he was preparing to announce his campaign for the Presidency in February, he called his minister, Reverend Wright, the night before and disinvited him to stand on the podium in front of all the cameras.
Rather than face questions, he simply eliminated the target, a perfect Alinsky action meant to forestall an enemy reaction.
Hillary should have known what she was up against when she read up on how Obama won his state senate seat in Illinois.
Obama had returned to Chicago and practiced civil rights law for 3 years, when he spied an opportunity to run for the state senate. A longtime, widely-revered matron of the civil rights movement named Alice Palmer had held the seat for a number of years, but she announced that she wanted to run for Congress. So, Obama seized the opportunity and proclaimed his intention to run for Alice’s open seat.
Well, Alice lost the congressional race and decided that she wanted to hang onto that
hard-won state senate seat. Most of the community leaders tried to persuade Obama to
withdraw and wait his turn; he was a newcomer after all.
Instead Obama performed his first real act of political jujitsu. He sent his aides to the courthouse to carefully examine all of Alice Palmer’s signatures to see if enough could be disallowed to knock her off the ballot altogether. And indeed, some of Alice’s
signatures were fake. The aides also found enough other fake signatures on opponents’
ballot initiatives to knock them off the ballot as well.
By the time Barack Obama walked handily into his state senate seat, everyone there knew him as “the man who knocked off Alice Palmer.” Quite a feat indeed for the newcomer, the young whippersnapper with the odd name.
Perhaps Hillary will win some states and stay in the game a while longer, but I fear this knight with his adoring, fawning followers is just too slick for her and ole Bill, and he seems to know how to play Alinsky ends-and-means hardball without actually breaking the law.
Kyle-Anne Shiver is a frequent contributor to American Thinker.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/obamas_alinsky_jujitsu.html
Cos,
“Or just drop some cluster bombs on them.”
Shhhh! They just might consider solving the caribou problem on the north slope with cluster bombs. After all, they worked in Iraq!
Jay-eezus reggie, you’re raising blisters on my scrolling finger! Take your scissors and paste somewhere else!
Clear and Present Danger Video Trailer
Obama’s Hidden Agendas
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/obama-the-movie-trailer-clear-and-present-danger/626736526
A post that describes the radical left on this blog to perfection
So does every enemy of the United States – including the liberals voting Democrat in
this country.
If you are:
a person that hates the United States,
a traitor,
a communist,
a socialist,
a criminal,
a terrorist,
an illegal alien,
lazy,
envious,
ignorant,
stupid,
mad that others are better than you,
someone who like to kill unborn children,
someone who needs a parent their entire life,
someone who likes to run other people’s lives,
someone who will surrender to any threat,
then the Democrat Party is where you cast your vote. Pure and simple. – Hank Dagny
http://www.liberalquicksand.com/
Jed posted October 9, 2008 at 1:45 am
Jay-eezus reggie, you’re raising blisters on my scrolling finger! Take your scissors and paste somewhere else!
—————-
LOL! Well said.
“Kansas values” Regular seems to delusionally believe that he will change the U.S. presidential election by posting long, right-wingnut, non-credible garbage, and videos, on a red-state newspaper blog.
(Plus “Kansas values” Regular is probably adding his usual false, fictional garbage into his copy/pastes.)
An example of their Orwellian doublespeak is found in the use of the term “economic democracy” Derek Shearer, a former editor of Ramparts magazine, discussed the use of
the phrase at a 1981 conference sponsored by Ralph Nader in Washington. In counseling
attendees to use the term “economic democracy” instead of making direct references to
socialism, Shearer noted that:
while we can’t use the ‘IS” word [socialism] too effec- tively in American advertising, the word “economic democracy” sells. You can take it door to door like Fuller brushes and the doors will not be slammed in your face. So I commend it to you for those who are willing to compromise on the ‘IS” word.
6 Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals: A Practical Guide for Radicals (New York: Random
House, 1971). 7 Goralski, op. cit.
A Backer of ACORN and OBAMA:
George Soros Helped Nazis During Holocause
George Soros Interview On 60 Minutes
When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros’ father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat.
But knowing there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split his family up.
He bought them forged papers and he bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.
(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging little boy in line)
KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what happened to George Soros’ friends and neighbors.
(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their shoulders walking; crowd by a
train)
KROFT: (Voiceover) You’re a Hungarian Jew…
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
KROFT: (Voiceover) …who escaped the Holocaust…
(Vintage footage of women walking by train)
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.
(Vintage footage of people getting on train)
KROFT: (Voiceover) …by–by posing as a Christian.
Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.
(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)
KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.
Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that’s when my character was made.
KROFT: In what way?
Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and–and anticipate events and when–when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a–a very personal experience of evil.
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. That’s right. Yes.
KROFT: I mean, that’s–that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?
Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t–you don’t see the connection. But it was–it created no–no problem at all.
KROFT: No feeling of guilt?
Mr. SOROS: No.
KROFT: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c–I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was–well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets–that if I weren’t there–of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would–would–would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the–whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the–I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
Of course most of us here are already aware of Mr. Soros’ highly questionable actions during the Nazi occupation. (Though the public at large undoubtedly has a different perspective, if they know anything about his earlier days at all.)
But the statements he made in this interview to my mind are quite chilling. He forgives himself everything. He says that if he hadn’t done it somebody else would have.
All of which would seem to indicate that Mr. Soros has no conscience. A lack of conscience is said to be a common symptom of sociopaths.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/george-soros-on-helping-the-nazis-during-the-holocaust
Maybe McCain should’ve said “my friends” 44 times, instead of only 22?
‘USA TODAY/Gallup Poll: Debate Boosted Obama, Not McCain‘
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/usa-todaygallup.html
While 53% of the 735 people surveyed said their opinions of Obama had not changed, 34% said they thought more favorably of him and 12% viewed him less favorably. All 735 said they had watched the debate.
The reactions to McCain were almost mirror opposites: 54% said their opinions about him had not changed, 33% felt less favorable and 12% felt more favorable.
The poll also shows that among those surveyed, 56% thought Obama did the “better job” at the debate, to 23% who said that about McCain. Fifteen percent said the candidates’ performances were “equal.” “
Reggie,
Your problem is the problem of all neo-cons; conservatism used to be a legitimate political theory, but it’s degenerated into nothing more than a litany of enemies. You no longer have a viable economic or political plan for the future, so you’ve parked your butt on the highway so nobody else can have one either. I’d suggest watching out for Mack trucks.