“I totally understand the resentment against Wall Street titans bringing home $60 million bonuses,” wrote New York Times columnist and best-selling author Thomas Friedman. “But when the credit system is imperiled, as it is now, you have to focus on saving the system, even if it means bailing out people who don’t deserve it. Otherwise, you’re saying: ‘I’m going to hold my breath until that Wall Street fat cat turns blue.’ But he’s not going to turn blue; you are, or we all are. We have to get this right.”
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134 Comments
Lies. This bail-out is for foreign investors in China, Australia, Great Britain and Germany. More Economic Terrorism brought to you by the real terrorists. “Bail us out or else”.
And those bad investments may not have even been made here in America!
Paulson already said that “if we don’t keep the provision to buy up all the junk paper, veto”.
Heil Paulson!
It would be nice Phillip if you would find a reliable source for comments not the New York Times and its socialists.
Economic Terrorism.
And remember, American’s don’t deal with terrorists.
I’m willing to hold my breath until Wall street execs start hitting the sidewalk.
But when the depression hits, it’ll be all of our fault anyway, not the execs. And most definitely not Bushco or Obamaco or Pelosico…
Just us plebeians.
We don’t need a vote in the House, we need impeachment petitions. NOW.
I’ll take the side effects. Just please let me see the mighty fall.
From high windows.
shadenfreude?
sorry…schadenfreude
They don’t have windows that open on Wall street anymore.
A total bail out no, an intelligent bail out yes some need to fail for their actions and not have a golden parachute this is not a socialist country. But a bail out that will keep the country’s economy for from a collapse is the smart thing to do. Sadly from listening to the latest, smart is still giving way to keeping the greedy from losing everything and at the expense of the people. What kind of moron still thinks that tax cuts
is a good answer? Congress! Investing in the White Star line will not keep the Titanic from sinking, giving a tax break will not stop the ship from sinking beneath the waves either.
Hey Dog! I agree that tax cuts are for people making money, not those losing their asses. When I read about the tax cut provision I thought, WTF?
Congress will do ANYTHING to serve their masters. WHAT moron thought tax cuts were the way to go? Sweetner?
Sounds like they are giving away the whole sugar plantation, not just a little “sweetner”.
Jesus WEPT! Congress and the presnit’s administration cant do the right thing, cast a vote for the economy, without more TAX CUTS for the wealthy Wall Street crowd?
As Yakov would say…”America. What a country”.
I wouldnt look for any stock brokers jumping out of windows any time soon. What with the bailout, the tax cuts, and the whole world kissing Wall Street’s ass, WHY would they jump? They are in the drivers seat now.
Let’s just give them ALL of our money right now. See if even THAT makes them happy.
I have yet to see the case made that failing to bail out Wall Street will lead to general economic collapse. Yes, lots of investmentors bet – heavily – on the housing bubble continuing forever. They were wrong. They’re gonna lose a LOT of money.
That does not necessarily mean a general economic collapse. I might be for this bailout if someone in can convince me
1) there is impending doom if we do not act
2) this $700 billion is necessary and likely to avert this doom
3) gov’t has some competency to manage this bailout.
I’m open; convince me.
Otherwise, no bailout for fatcats who are deeply connected to the politicians – on both sides of the aisle – already.
Reagan’s old laugh line is still usually correct: The scariest words in the English language are “I’m with the government, and I’m here to help.”
This is just a last minute run to the bank for walking around money as far as bushco is concerned. It was on their list of things to do before they trashed the country on their way out… to Paraguay…Dubai… and all points in between.
George and Dick’s Excellent Adventure in Theft and Terror. The final installment is coming to a theater near you!
Damn. And now, to boot, I have to agree with GMC? :)
The 700 bil figure was pulled from someone’s ass, with no basis in reality.
This does NOTHING to help the housing market. Just the aftermarket for financial paper. It doesnt really help the price of housing, which is at the bottom of this mess.
This does NOTHING to forestall another bailout in the very near future. It does nothing for the exploding deficit. It just props things up long enough for buschco to get out the door, and the congress critters to secure their seats for one more term.
SO… we dont have enough money to pay for our military folks, for the care of veterans, for health care for all American, we dont have enough money for education, for infrastructure, for Social Security, etc.
But we DO have enough money to cut taxes for the wealthy, bail out Wall Street and your local banker, and to make sure Halliburton is comfy in Dubai and Blackwater has enough cash to continue to do god’s work?
NO INCUMBENTS!!!!! Throw ALL the bums OUT! Jesus WEPT! I think the local drunk on the street corner could do a better job of running the country.
Hell, I’d hire Thomas Etheridge before I’d hire Congress or bushco again….
Looking at summaries of the bill passed by the Senate last night to determine just what the tax cuts are, the following is what I learned:
About half of the tax cuts is an extension of the relief from the AMT for those who are in the “middle class” and who, as a group, were not the intended targets of the AMT;
Another portion is an extension of credits for investments in renewable energy;
Another part is the extension of the credit for state and local income taxes.
I’ll admit I’ve not read the bill to ferret out what other tax related provisions are contained therein. It seems to me that while the above provisions are, by extension of already existing provisions of the tax law, technically “tax cuts”, the same are not necessarily related to Wall Street fat cats in their entirety.
All that said, I join with GMC and kfg in my opposition to the bailout/rescue plan as it currently exists.
There’s a truism among economists –
“What’s good politics is bad economics; what’s bad politics is good economics; what’s good economics is bad politics; what’s bad economics is good politics. “
Constant tax-cuts and deregulation of Big Bidness were great Republic Party political strategies. We’re seeing the natural repercussions of that disastrous bit of political legerdemain.
I find the bailout to be disgusting, but I’m having trouble with the claim that “innocent” taxpayers are being called on to bail out the compulsive gamblers who systematically turned Wall Street into Vegas without pasties.
Those “innocent” taxpayers voted in Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm and George WMD Bush and Dick Cheney on the promise that Shrub’s gentleman’s MBA would make us all rich enough to benefit from his tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans.
And we “Libs” have been the object of CONdescension every time we’ve noted that the ever-expanding gap between the haves and the have-nots is not simply a human failing, but a corruption of capitalism’s purported greatest strength.
Lousy politics; good policy. It’s been the curse of the Democratic Party for 30 years since the Gipper.
I hate it that Wall Street bandits will get a bailout because the Republic Party oxymoronic policy “Free speech = Money” took hold and turned this society into a de facto plutocracy.
Shrub has steered the Ship of State like the Titanic. But for the Republic Party, the good politics has always been “women and children last.”
Well Farm girl that is what our economy has been being build on for over a decade. “On Paper” is the key phrase, It has gotten so bad that some company actually are borrowing the money to cover operating cost and that includes payroll.
“writerdog” –
Back in the 80s (when Michael Douglas was saying “Greed is good,” in the film “Wall Street), all those leveraged buy-outs were explained away with how this-or-that ploy would “service the debt.”
My Dad, who’s since passed, said, “Why doesn’t anyone ever mention servicing the principle?!”
Under the house-of-cards CONservative philosophy that the economy can do nothing but perpetually expand, this particular collapse is due to allowing more and more ways to fuel the boilers and speed ever faster the Titanic into the iceberg.
The 700 billion dollar figure was pulled from thin air. 500 billion seemed to low and 1 trillion dollars would scared the bejeebers out of the American public.
Time line of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and how the Democrats ignore the warning and obstructed legislation.
2001
April: The Administration’s FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is “a potential problem,” because “financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity.”
2002
May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)
2003
January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.
February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that “although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations,” “the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them.” As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. (”Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO,” OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)
September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO’s review found earnings manipulations.
September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact “legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises” and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.
October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.
November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any “legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk.” To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have “broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards” and “receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)
2004
February: The President’s FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: “The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator.” (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)
February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to “not take [the financial market's] strength for granted.” Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by “ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, “Keeping Fannie And Freddie’s House In Order,” Financial Times, 2/24/04)
June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying “We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.” (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)
2005
April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying “Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system.” (Secretary John W. Snow, “Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee,” 4/13/05)
2007
July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.
August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options.” (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)
September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.
September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.
December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying “These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I’ve called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon.” (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)
2008
January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.
January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.
February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says “A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully.” (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)
March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and “move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)
April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and “modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)
May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.
“Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
“[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
“Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)
June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying “we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)
July: Congress heeds the President’s call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.
In 2005– Senator John McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the government’s involvement in lending.
Democrats blocked this reform, too.
More… Not only did democrats not act on these warnings but Barack Obama put one of the major Sub-Prime Slime players on his campaign as finance chairperson.
UPDATE: The media is not reporting that the failed financial institutions are big Obama donors.
http://ussenterprise.blogdns.net/blog2/archive/2008/09/24/771.aspx
KFG, GMC and AV…I’m sorry to poison the well, but I’m definitely in the wagon with you all (as if it’s not obvious). We are seeing the pillaging by the pirates, the raping is soon to come.
Let em’ Burn.
Allard (R)
Barasso (R)
Brownback (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)
ALL VOTED NO.
These are the “keepers”, fire the rest.
Just remember to keep up the calls and emails. Washington is listening. The people here can take back the power we have given to DC for too long.
damned right okob.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-stewart/nothing-proposed-will-sol_b_131157.html
wherein the author states, more elegantly that I, some reasons why the proposed bailout/rescue will not solve the existing problem.
MonkeyHawk
“I find the bailout to be disgusting, but I’m having trouble with the claim that “innocent” taxpayers are being called on to bail out the compulsive gamblers who systematically turned Wall Street into Vegas without pasties.
Those “innocent” taxpayers voted in Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm and George WMD Bush and Dick Cheney on the promise that Shrub’s gentleman’s MBA would make us all rich enough to benefit from his tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans.
And we “Libs” have been the object of CONdescension every time we’ve noted that the ever-expanding gap between the haves and the have-nots is not simply a human failing, but a corruption of capitalism’s purported greatest strength.”
I could NOT agree more.
While the gettin’ was good for retirement plans and 401(k)s, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was happy. Never mind what else was happening in the world. If folks had money in the stock market, they were good. And didnt mind ridiculing others who did not.
And now? THey want ME to bail out their money? Their retirement? Their investments?
Heheheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hell, I cant even get equal protection under the law for my marriage? Why would I give a RAT’S ASS what happens to the CONS who voted in bush, twice, just so they could be safe from gay marriage?
No matter what happens to your investments, your home, your retirement plans, you people who voted for bushco are STILL safe from gay marriage.
Quit yer bitchin’. You got what you wanted. Now deal with it.
Grmie, you voted for bushco. Twice. Dont worry. Be happy. Same with roberts and brownback and tiahrt. You voted them in, and for more than six years, they did nothing but enable this financial meltdown.
You chose them. You supported them. This is what it got you.
Deal with it.
And, yer still safe from gay marriage. So quit yer bitching.
No regulation for the financial industry. Low interest rates. Housing boom. War. More war. More deficit spending. Tax cuts for the top brackets. More deficit growth. Financial meltdown. Credit crunch. The end of your retirement funds.
And you worried about gay marriage? Concealed carry? SOCIALISM??????? heheheh.
Um, exactly WHAT here caused you more personal harm?
Bushco gave you exactly what you wanted. Tiahrt gave you exactly what you wanted. So did Roberts, and Brownback, and even Sebelius.
Dont be sad you got what you wanted. Just be glad you didnt get what you deserved. You voted for it. Deal with it.
Thomas Friedman is a liar.
You guys really want to trust the people who started this mess?
Maybe now you can see just how worthless Federal Reserve Notes are.
How about allowing competing currencies. If the Federal Reserve Notes were so good, then ask yourself this, “Why do they have to create laws forcing businesses to accept Federal Reserve Notes?”
Remember Gresham’s Law. Bad money always drives out good money.
We have got a lot of bad money out there.
The DemUnderground view and Obama’s view continues to be that there was not enough Government regulation, when in fact, it’s been posted here several times by AmWay, Over-Regulation by Government is what got us into this mess.
But please carry on with your DemUnderground propaganda.
If you repeat your lies often enough, you might convince most people to go along with you.
Some allies, some adversaries all together against the bailout. Meanwhile I find myself in agreement with Frugman that we will need to hold our noses and go with it.
As for “find a reliable source for comments not the New York Times and its socialists.” I would note that the NYTimes carries MANY different columnists, including many apologists for the BushBots. I still haven’t forgiven the NYT for its involvement in pushing Bush’s war. However, this time they have a good columnist who is not acting as a shill for Bush. And, IMO, he is right.
Let em’ burn. Let the market correct itself. It maybe painful, but it will weed out the idiots.
OMG
Max, if you really believe this mess is caused by too much regulation, I have some irrigated farm ground near Hays that you should buy…
nitwit
Just keep repeating your lies Farmie.
It might work for you.
It’s all ya got.
Democratic Underground
heheheheheheh
Yeah. That’s the problem here. Too much DU. Not enough Freeperville.
This whole “crisis”, er, Shock Doctrine, could have been avoided had DU not had so many readers.
Big. Eye. Roll.
You are still safe from gay marriage and you still have your guns.
WTF else do you want? Free market means you gained from the market, you are free to lose in the market.
Funny. That dreaded socialism max is so afraid of is indeed creeping up on him. From his RIGHT flank…
DU. Socialism. Terror. Gun control. Gay marriage. Free markets. NO regulation. Capitalism, capitalism, capitalsims.
heheheh. Government by jingoism. When Max doesnt have an answer, he/she just relies on a bumpersticker phrase.
BTW, maxie, how’s that working out for ya?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted October 2, 2008 at 9:53 am | Permalink
Grmie, you voted for bushco. Twice. Dont worry. Be happy. Same with roberts and brownback and tiahrt. You voted them in, and for more than six years, they did nothing but enable this financial meltdown.
You chose them. You supported them. This is what it got you.
Deal with it.
And, yer still safe from gay marriage. So quit yer bitching
————–
Farmie when I need your permission to post I’ll ask for it until then just post your usual garbage. Turn every post into your untimate goal. You were married once why should you get a second chance to do it right?
Yes I voted for Bush and if he were the problem then I might feel bad. You dims try awfully hard to put the fault here on the republicans and thinking people know different. Raines, Johnson, Mudd, need I go on. Just burying your head doesn’t change facts.
BTW Brownback, Tiahrt and Robert voted NO. What did your dim representatives vote?
You are truely to be pitied for the arrogance you display daily.
I buy a nice new corvette. I can’t make the payments on the nice new corvette. Bank takes corvette and sells it. I am responsible for the difference. I can’t get a loan for 5 years. I learn not to buy something I can’t pay for.
I buy a nice new corvette. I can’t make the payments on the nice new corvette. My rich uncle Larry pays off corvette for me. 3 years down the road I buy a nice new Stratos fishing boat I can’t afford…..and the cycle repeats. I learn nothing and Larry loses money.
American_Way
Posted October 1, 2008 at 9:07 pm | Permalink
As requested. 1999 added:
Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, a Carter-era law that purported to prevent “redlining” – denying mortgages to black borrowers – by pressuring banks to make home loans in “low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.” Under the act, banks were to be graded on their attentiveness to the “credit needs” of “predominantly minority neighborhoods.” The higher a bank’s rating, the more likely that regulators would say yes when the bank sought to open a new branch or undertake a merger or acquisition.
1995: The Clinton Administration’s regulatory revisions with an effective starting date of January 31, 1995 were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans. Part of the increase in home loans was due to increased efficiency and the genesis of lenders, like Countrywide, that do not mitigate loan risk with savings deposits as do traditional banks using the new subprime authorization. This is known as the secondary market for mortgage loans.
1999: Bill Clinton says the Congress’s 1999 decision to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and Clinton’s signing of the Bill was NOT a mistake, and did NOT lead to the current crisis. (Who do you believe, Clinton or Obama?)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122282635048992995.html?mod=todays_us_opinion
In BusinessWeek.com, Maria Bartiromo reports that she asked the former President last week whether he regretted signing that legislation. Mr. Clinton’s reply: “No, because it wasn’t a complete deregulation at all. We still have heavy regulations and insurance on bank deposits, requirements on banks for capital and for disclosure. I thought at the time that it might lead to more stable investments and a reduced pressure on Wall Street to produce quarterly profits that were always bigger than the previous quarter.
“But I have really thought about this a lot. I don’t see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn’t signed that bill.”
One of the writers of that legislation was then-Senator Phil Gramm, who is now advising John McCain, and who Mr. Obama described last week as “the architect in the United States Senate of the deregulatory steps that helped cause this mess.” Ms. Bartiromo asked Mr. Clinton if he felt Mr. Gramm had sold him “a bill of goods”?
Mr. Clinton: “Not on this bill I don’t think he did. You know, Phil Gramm and I disagreed on a lot of things, but he can’t possibly be wrong about everything. On the Glass-Steagall thing, like I said, if you could demonstrate to me that it was a mistake, I’d be glad to look at the evidence.
“But I can’t blame [the Republicans]. This wasn’t something they forced me into. I really believed that given the level of oversight of banks and their ability to have more patient capital, if you made it possible for [commercial banks] to go into the investment banking business as Continental European investment banks could always do, that it might give us a more stable source of long-term investment.”
2003: the Bush Administration recommended what the NY Times called “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.” This change was to move governmental supervision of two of the primary agents guaranteeing subprime loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury. However, it did not alter the implicit guarantee that Washington will bail the companies out if they run into financial difficulty; that perception enabled them to issue debt at significantly lower rates than their competitors. The changes were generally opposed along Party lines and eventually failed to happen. Representative Barney Frank(D-MA) claimed of the thrifts “These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.” Representative Mel Watt (D-NC) added “I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing.”
‘’These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,’’ said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ‘’The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.’’
Ya believe Bill Clinton, or Farmgirl?
“ksfarmgrrl” –
You with all your lady-chickens and garden and, I dunno, a cow or a pig or two?
You’ll do just fine during the Greater Depression.
At least you’ll eat.
What gives me dog-with-an-ice-cream-headache moments (constantly whacking my head with my front paw) is how Americans get so compartmentalized they don’t see the connection between issues that are inextricably linked.
Governor Bible Spice tried to make a big deal about how one of her friends is gay. But she’s not her “gay” friend.
Yeah she is! She’s her gay friend just like someone might be your left-handed friend, or your brown-eyed friend, or your wolf-hunting friend. The point is: IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER!!”
Except to the Republic Party at election time.
And then it somehow is manipulated into the most important issue in the world.
I think I’ve had enough of the “Wall Street/Main Street” clap trap. I think we should get the boots on the ground and throw it under the bus.
I would like to point out to everyone here that America is not a free market society.
We have a centrally planned economy.
Of course, if the media says we have a free market long enough, some of you may actually start to believe it.
Do we need regulations? In a centrally planned economy like we have, Yes.
If this were a free market, No.
Monkey I think if you really read the post here you will see that the repubs aren’t the ones who label people. The libs do that daily. She is bi. She is a Christian fundy. Go back and look.
I talk issues and farmie throws in her worthless drivel and calls it an intelligent comment.
I have said for months that dems and repubs together created this mess. I now say the dems have been much more insturmental and the facts prove that out.
We can keep throwing darts or understand that we all own this problem and have the power to do something about it.
And once again, all of this is not a left/right predicament. Yeah, we all have our battles that are pronounced for us within our party’s, but at the top of the heap, both party’s are headed in the same direction.
Neo Con = National Socialist
Neo Lib = Communist
Pick one. Or pick a…third.
The closer you live to the land, the better off you’ll be. Just watch out for those who aren’t as agrarian (and there’s millions!).
I agree with bth. It sucks that we are in this situation. But, like when bush got us into Iraq, it no longer matters how we got there, we’re there. What many of you are proposing, would be the economical equivalent, of an immediate pull out.
But instead of Iraqies facing the consequences, we all will.
It may be the survivalist dream scenario, hey they can finally pat themselves on the back, and say ’see I told you it was coming!’
I do fault Clinton for signing the deregulation of Glass-Steagal, but at this point that does nothing to alleviate the coming crisis if we don’t act.
The mentioned tax cut sweetner were, as I’ve read, only those which were going to be allowed to continue irregardless of this bill. It was something used to make signing more politically palatable for the repubs. in the senate, by putting it in.
As for the average citizen investing their 401k’s I’d say most only benefitted marginally in the financial stocks, I know I personally have never had exposure except through a mutual fund with a small percentage of financial co. in the mix.
The declines we’re seeing is across the board, which should indicate that the pain will be also spread through out commerce.
We are already seeing the highest unemp. in 7 yrs., and this is just the starting point.
I’d like to see consequences for those in industry leading us to this point, but you can’t prosecute people for mistakes that aren’t illegal.
Even with the proposed bail out, I think we’re going to see enough hardships. So opponents will be patting themselves on the back, saying what good did it do? But without it, it could be a complete meltdown. Glad I’m only partially invested in stocks, think may be needing the cash in the near future.
And now, from the Dept. Of WTF?
“You were married once why should you get a second chance to do it right?”
?????????????????????????????????????????????
So max, Bill Clinton is now your guru?
heheh. HAHAHAHAH. HEEHEHEEE HEHEEEHEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Like I always say, you cant make this stuff up…
Pleefer I had my dentist say something the other day that was very deep when you think about it. He said “This is the first election in my lifetime that the press has picked both candidates and is now picking our next prez.”
This is very scary when you realize how true it is. Maybe a third party is a possibility or a necessity.
Phantom, wheat was down almost fifty cents on Tuesday, so the pain is being felt all the way around. I mentioned earlier that this was the 80’s all over again for us. High commodity prices, higher inputs, sudden price drops, loans shaky, banks going under, merging, consolidating, but most of all, calling loans. Farmers have to sell because they cant get a loan.
It isnt like we are not feeling the pain out here. I cant produce all my own food anymore. Nor can I cut enough wood to keep from freezing, or haul water from the windmill to the house and critters.
But.. for you freakin’ CONS, you voted for these ass wipes. Not us libs. So…
Deal with it.
You are still safe from gay marriage. Be happy.
And if you dont see the connection? You are probably already voting for palin.
okob – while the press might have had a hand in picking the nominees (by helping certain candidates to stand out from the crowd) I don’t think they have that power in the general election. BOTH McCain and Obama will have ample opportunity to make their cases – it is theirs to win or lose.
“You were married once why should you get a second chance to do it right?”
Does that apply to heterosexuals too? Like Rush? Gingrich? McCain?
““This is the first election in my lifetime that the press has picked both candidates and is now picking our next prez.”
Uh, no.
It’s PEOPLE, voters like you, who LET the press decide for them and then go cast a ballot exactly the way the press, as in FUX news, told you to vote.
The last I checked, “the press” has no ballot. Never has, never will
You, however, did. And do.
And for the record, I have no “dim” representatives. At any level.
They are all republicans.
Phantom, do not read my opposition to the bailout/rescue bill in its current form as being on the side of doing nothing. It seems to me that something needs to be done; my opposition is to the something that is in the bill.
For starters, why buy the securities and not the underlying mortgages (if buying assets is to be done), leaving the securities with the institutions that acquired them; and, not just the mortgages the banks, et al, want to sell, but all of them?
Or, why buy the mortgages; if buying is to be done, take the other assets, and leave those mortgages, together with the securities backed by them with the institutions?
If there is a liquidity squeeze, as is reported, and the pumping of liquidity to date hasn’t made any difference, then why not supply even more capital, but now, do it in exchange for preferred stock and not just as interbank lending?
Some thoughts, FWIW.
People shouldn’t have went along and laughed with McCain (and the rest minus Huckabee and Hunter)) at Ron Paul during the “debates”. No instead, they should have listened to the old “kook” who told us so a long time ago.
I’ve personally, been preaching that this stuff was going to happen for almost two-years now (but then again, I’m a “kook” as well).
And yeah, the press has always picked your “top tier”, always.
Phantom what you say makes a lot of sense. But if we learm nothing from it what have we gained. If there is no punishment for the fat cats that raided the system whats to stop them or others from doing it again.
We keep these jokers around as ‘advisors’ and use their brains to start it allup again. Will we ever learn?
We have a large part of our assets in NW Mutual. You won’t ever get rich from these investments because the risk is very low. But you won’t lose capital either. Low risk investment is what the housing market used to be. When we bought our first house we had to have a 20% down payment. We couldn’t have more than 25% of our income going to the payment and my salary wasn’t counted in seeing how much we qualified for. Afer all I was a young woman who could quit at any time to raise a family.
This type of qualifying kept the home market stable. Deregulation stopped that and we are now paying the price.
Ain’t life grand?
“And then it somehow is manipulated into the most important issue in the world.”
Ya know, MonkeyHawk, whatever it takes to get the faithful to the polls.
And they fall for it. Everytime. Just like Thomas Frank says!
Farmie that post was my daily absurdity just as your post previous to me was. If you can be absurd then I reserve the right to be absurd also.
I wonder how many cons would support Teddy Kennedy if only, when the car went off the bridge, he had stuck around and when the cops asked “how did this car go off the bridge?”…
He would have said, “well, it doesnt matter HOW it went off the bridge or who was driving when it went off the bridge. The important thing is that girl is in the water. Let’s just get her out and not worry about how or who put her there”.
nitwits
We used to have LAWS.
For a REASON!
“If you can be absurd then I reserve the right to be absurd also.”
Ok.
I bow to your clear superiority.
KFG, I must interject. It is crazy to believe the majority of republicans go to the polls simply to oppose gay marriage. That is pretty far down on the list of important issues for me and many others.
This was all engineered to take down the dollar. Soon things will get so bad we’ll be begging for their real resue (NAU common currency), good thing they’ll have it all ready to go on deck.
Problem-Reaction-Solution.
Go on, laugh it up, you’ll see.
READ THESE QUOTES. PLEASE.
http://www.barefootsworld.net/banking-fed-quotes.html
bth
Posted October 2, 2008 at 11:00 am | Permalink
“You were married once why should you get a second chance to do it right?”
Does that apply to heterosexuals too? Like Rush? Gingrich? McCain?
—————-
Ben I threw that in (see post above) because every issue for farmie comes back to same sex marriage. More power to her if she can get the will of the people to say yes.
I just get sick of her and others reading “a” book and quoting it for a month as if it were gospel while failing to read any opposition to their already cemented beliefs. If you refuse to expose yourself to an opposing view then what have you accomplished.
I have readily admitted that the repubs share the blame with the dems. I have also said we all own this problem. Farmie and her ilk refuse to do this.
I have always- well almost always – been able to have a civil conversation with you even though in most instances we are polar opposites.
We have to join together to approve a fix for this huge problem. Not just the dems, not just the repubs, but all of us.
Example:
“From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
Oh let’s do find someone to blame for this mess!
I’m waiting for Congress to investigate itself.
Why are the Dems not at least scheduling hearings?
I’d buy a wheel barrow to carry those piles of cash for groceries…nevermind, we all have debit cards to take the weight off.
I think that maybe by buying the bad mortgages, the other securities could be unwound, if the have at their basis mortgages. I realize that the bill allows for the purchase of other types of securities as well, I think that those would be utilized to a much lesser degree.
Maybe a law that would require ample cash reserves for these derivitives should be made ( I’m presuming that they don’t exist now).
Since the bill allows for tranches, that would buy some time to fine tune the medicine needed.
I don’t think ‘do nothing’ is an option, nor what is proposed necessarilly the best remedy. But I think we need to act immediately, then have more follow up.
Also, if they can find any cases of corruption or illegality, prosecute to the fullest.
Maybe afterwards appoint some experts to examine the root causes, and propose the regulations needed to prevent a repeat. Wall street high flyers are so inventive though, not sure it’s possible to stay ahead of them. Kind of like taxes, people always find a way around the rules.
Thank you farmgrl for that. Maybe we are starting to make progress.
As for voting for or against SS marriage:
My priorities are:
National security
Economy
Education
Health Care
Elderly
If our country isn’t secure then it really doesn’t matter about the economy we will be dealing in someone else’s currency anyway.
If the economy isn’t cured then life as we live it today will change drastically.
If we continue to turn out children who can’t read and write well enough to fill out a job application then we are failing an entire generation.
Health care cost are astronomical. If we don’t get a handle on this if will be that elephant in the corner no one will talk about and it will remain out of control. BTW I don’t think nationalizing this is the answer.
The elderly in our country need all of the help they can get. We have a group of seniors who are depending on the medicaid system to stay afloat. In the current AARP magazine we see nursing home and assisted living homes turning seniors out on the street because medicaid only pays 40 to 50 percent of what the private sector pays.
As for the social issues. These will never be changed by a vote or a court. There will continue to be challenges, votes, overturned votes, etc… because the answer isn’t in social engineering.
I vote the issues that I know can improve our lives.
Vote out all imcumbents. All of them. (I changed my mind).
From the Sherriff, to the school board. All of them. Flush it.
“It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” — Henry Ford
Wake up people. While you argue about Gay Marriage and Gun Rights, our nations wealth is being looted.
Learn about money and credit. Learn about the Federal Reserve and how they collude with Big government.
I will certainly see you all in the trenches when the revolution begins. Only then will you wake up from your long slumber and come together as a people.
The bill gives complete immunity for these demons (Paulson has investigative oversight).
Pleefer
Posted October 2, 2008 at 11:16 am | Permalink
I’d buy a wheel barrow to carry those piles of cash for groceries…nevermind, we all have debit cards to take the weight off.
—————–
I had something happen this weekend that was so funny I almost cried. We were in Miami where my mom still lives and I was at a quick stop buying a fountain drink.
I was in line behind 3 other people who all used plastic to pay for their purchases. The man in front of me had a little boy who was 5 or 6.
After waiting forever for all of the plastic to clear it was finally his fathers turn and he too handed over plastic.
I had pulled out a ten dollar bill to pay and had it in my hand. This little boy kept staring at it and finally with awe in his voice said “Is that real money?” His dad just rolled his eyes and said come on to him.
Are we really raising a generation of kids that look on money as a mysterious method of payment.
“I wonder how many cons would support Teddy Kennedy if only, when the car went off the bridge, he had stuck around and when the cops asked “how did this car go off the bridge?”…
He would have said, “well, it doesnt matter HOW it went off the bridge or who was driving when it went off the bridge. The important thing is that girl is in the water. Let’s just get her out and not worry about how or who put her there”.”
Having been at the scene of more than one incident like the above, I can tell you that is the first concern, getting the girl out of the water. THe rest comes later, and it does come.
In the current situation, we really do need to fix the problem, then the blame. As I see it there are two positions that can be taken. One, the bailout helps the country, two, the bailout does not.
I guess I could respond to medical calls the other way. You know, like
“You stupid fat ass! You don;t take care of yourself, you eat 6,000 calories a day, smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, and drink a 6 pack of Bud Lite a day,and you want me to help you since your having a heart attack? Die, sucker, die. Until you fix yourself, don;t frakin bother me or my tax dollars fixin you. ”
But then, that wouldn;t be nice, now would it. Even though they cause their own problem.
Trying to set another precedent?
Bloomberg Says He Would Run Again if Law Changed
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg announced on Thursday that he would support changing the term limit law and would seek a third term as mayor if it is lifted.
Sad but …sad story okie. I want to laugh…really I do.
I don’t really have time for this today, so I’m going to keep it short and sweet. Something needed to be done to keep the credit freeze from turning into a dead engine, not to fix the crisis (that POS bill ain’t gonna do it), but to keep things, temporarily, from getting too much worse.
But Paul Krugman and Andy Tannenbaum (i.e. the Votemaster) pretty much agree with me on this one. Andy’s take:
As expected, the Senate passed the $700 bailout bill yesterday 74 to 25. Both Barack Obama and John McCain voted for it. It goes to the House for a vote tomorrow. The new bill, which is over 400 pages, is full of random tax cuts (e.g., property tax deductions for people who don’t itemize), which is sure to please some conservative House Republicans and infuriate Democrats who think cutting taxes without cutting spending is irresponsible. It is also full of pork designed to please both Democrats (requiring insurance companies to cover mental health) and Republicans ($3 billion for rural schools). It is likely that the number of Republicans gained in the House vote will exceed the number of Democrats lost by more than 13 and the bill will probably pass the House tomorrow. Everybody was too busy adding pork to question the basic premise of whether giving former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson $250 billion immediately to help out his friends on Wall St. as he sees fit is a good idea.
http://electoral-vote.com/
Interesting irony:
“Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell led the battle Wednesday to pass a $700 billion Wall Street bailout package, in which taxpayers would buy the failing financial sector’s toxic assets.
But only three years ago, McConnell, R-Ky., stood in the same chamber and argued that America’s free-market economy requires people to clean up their own financial messes rather than pass them along to others.
After he pushed a tougher bankruptcy law through Congress, making it harder for citizens to escape debt, McConnell said the law “ushers in a new emphasis on personal responsibility.”
This week, critics of the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention Act of 2005 said recent studies suggest that it contributed to the fiscal crisis by encouraging more Americans to walk away from their homes and accept foreclosure rather than try to rebuild their lives under bankruptcy protection.
Either way, they said, it’s curious that McConnell — who has taken more than $4.3 million in campaign money from the financial sector — isn’t talking about personal responsibility now.
“Clearly, we have two sets of rules: one for individuals who run into hard times and one for corporations that practice irresponsible lending,” said Travis Plunkett, legislative director of the Consumer Federation of America.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/53375.html
#
Pleefer
Posted October 2, 2008 at 11:29 am | Permalink
The bill gives complete immunity for these demons (Paulson has investigative oversight).
That part alone was a deal-killer for Raul Grijalva.
The House has yet to vote, folks. Something will eventually pass.
You may get drowned out in the noise, but try to get your Congressperson’s attention, to make the damn bill better.
At my most optimistic, I see things as follows: the Senate version passes the House, the bill is signed by the President, the Congress goes home to campaign. The markets have a rally which doesn’t last past a week; the economy by the end of 2008 and by all measures has weakened dramatically. This continues into 2009, at which time the Congress decides to try it again, this time learning a bit from their earlier mistakes, and doing a bit better job. Upon passage, the economy eventually stabilizes and by the end of 2009, things are starting to improve. By the end of the first quarter 2010, a “bull market” has begun, and the economy (by all traditional measures) has begun to improve.
This is what happens when Stock Market and Banking air heads play with monopoly money.
Rage I agree. I have written Tiahrt to get Paulson off of the approved list of those who will decide where the money goes. Hope others will join me in this.
I have also voiced my opinion that the Raines, Johnsons, Mudds and others who gained millions because of doctored financial statements should be prosecuted. There have to be penalties for this. It was illegal. The very thing that happened at Enron.
Where is the outrage?
vt – agreed. Good observations.
One BIG difference in 2009 will be the new Congress. Also, they can swallow a bitter pill in early 2009 and hope that you are correct – then by late 2010 re-election time we will focus on the cure rather than the bitterness of the medicine.
okob – it is my understanding that the FBI is already involved. Hopefully that will result in some perp walks.
Rage I agree. I have written Tiahrt to get Paulson off of the approved list of those who will decide where the money goes. Hope others will join me in this.
I see a good possibility that toxic provision at least can be taken out in the House, with enough public pressure. It’s not a partisan issue. The White House won’t like it, but what are they going to do — veto it?
I suppose it’s also theoretically possible the Senate could block passage of the conference report. I don’t see that happening either.
Warren Buffet: Bailout is necessary, but may not be big enough. Proposes a government-private partnership.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news/newsmakers/buffett.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008100212
(and says that he may need to go back to delivering papers).
bth,
Most on here know my thoughts on 9-11 (I’m not intending to be quiet about them). We spent a few hundred thousand on the 9-11 “investigation” and hundreds of millions investigating a blow j.
The FBI may indeed and is involved. The grunts doing their jobs in the bottom will kill, but once it reaches the top (just like 9-11) stuff will be buried or emails will get deleted or whatever.
Nazi’s (on both sides) are in control. Nazi’s. Only this time, race doesn’t come into play at the top. It’s ALL of us.
The Bush family tree is well known to have supported Facism.
Prescott Bush was Hitler’s banker in the States. Got shut down for “trading with the enemy”.
We learned a lot from Nazi scientists too!
Has anyone taken any time to soak in the beautiful day out there yet?
I highly suggest it.
Pleefer
Posted October 2, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Prescott Bush was Hitler’s banker in the States. Got shut down for “trading with the enemy”.
====================
There is just no accounting for ignorance of the facts.
“A great industrial nation is controlled by it’s system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world– no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.” — President Woodrow Wilson
I have my facts in order. You need to read, can’t get all of your info from a 10 second sound bite dude.
I know you can’t help it, though.
Regular,
Why aren’t Pleefer’s facts in order? Just because it is not in a public school textbook doesn’t make it fact.
Why wasn’t any of this brought up during Bush’s run to president? I thought the media would dig this little gem out of the annals of history, but not to my surprise, it was buried.
Look, learn to live with the fact that we are not as free as we are told. The facts are all around you. Go research them and you’ll see what I’m talking about. If you like this form of government, OK, but do not perpetuate the lie.
Thanks A_E.
Austrian_Economist
Posted October 2, 2008 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
Regular,
Why aren’t Pleefer’s facts in order? Just because it is not in a public school textbook doesn’t make it fact.
=====================
The history about Prescott Bush is well known and document. It has been proven many, many times on this blog to you dunderheads that Prescott Bush was not associated with the Nazis.
P. Bush worked at a bank where he had one share and was and executive officer. That bank worked with a Dutch business man named Thyssen. After Thyssen realized what the Nazis stood for, no longer had any business dealing with the Nazis after 1938.
So you and Pfeefer are saying, that if a bank has a customer guilty of associating with certain unsavory customers, then its bank officers are guilty as well.
I guess all that ‘laundered money’ from drug deals makes 90 percent of bankers in the U.S. guilty by association as well.
You and Pfeefer belong in the same category as dunderheads believing in conspiratorial tripe.
There has never been anything to the Prescott Bush story and there never will be, because there is nothing there.
Only conspiracy freaks believe in such fairy tales.
Or are you and Pfeefer laying claim to being freaks?
If that’s the case, then by all means, be freaky.
Of course, you’ll lose any credibility you had or have.
well known and document
should be
well known and documented
How bout we get rid of the Fed and coin our own money interest free? Like it says in that rag, The US Constitution.
ok bro. you get yours from Fox, I’ll shop elsewhere…http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to powerRumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading
Results 1 – 10 of about 98,800 for prescott bush nazi connections. (0.38 seconds)
Bush-Nazi Dealings Continued Until 1951
Federal Documents
http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bushnazidealingscontinueduntil1951.htm
Of course, bth likes to tell the same “Wheelchair Veteran Story” under two different nics and we’re supposed to believe it’s someone else. :D
Before anyone can claim that I’m a “lefty” hatin’ on Bushco, know that Kerry is a memeber of the same “brotherhood of death”.
This is a club in which you and I aren’t invited to join.
mememememember.
“But when the credit system is imperiled, as it is now, you have to focus on saving the system, even if it means bailing out people who don’t deserve it.”
Wrote New York Times columnist and best-selling author Thomas Friedman.
“when the credit system is imperiled!”
“when the credit system is imperiled!”
How about “when the people’s trust is imperiled!”
Somehow, I don’t believe that the bailout is going to keep the meltdown from happening.
somehow, you’re right. It’ll just keep truckin’ on…
hyper inflation and all that stuffy stuff.
Pull your money out of 401 paper junk and buy Au. and silver. Now.
401k
The system is going to end. It is inevitable.
You cannot create money from debt and hope to sustain it.
For those who are puzzled by what I just said, the Federal Reserve and its banks create our money by having reserves in the bank.
They are allowed to loan out at a 9:1 ratio. That is where our money comes from. It is created out of thin air. The system is flawed.
The banks have no reserves, hence their inability to loan. The problem is that most Americans don’t save anymore and rely heavily on this money. There were laws created that forced businesses to accept Federal Reserve Notes.
If they cannot loan, there is no money. Only if you saved and own real assets with value are you prepared for this coming economic collapse.
This bailout will do nothing but perpetuate the problem.
Remember, Hoover and FDR tried to “Fix” the Depression and made it worse. It lasted much longer too.
Just a heads up on your life savings.
Pleef –
Can’t you find a nutcase website to be a nutcase on? There are some here interested in actually using a brain, instead of spouting tin-hat conspiracy nonsense.
Now: More generally – So deregulation is the demon that caused this? Not so fast . . . .
WHat did the players actually say, in hearings, as this storm was brewing? Read for yourself:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290574391296381.html
House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 25, 2003:
Rep. Frank: I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing. . . .
—–
Well, he got his wish. Too bad he was playing with the house’s money.
Go read the rest for yourself. And then tell yourself that “deregulation” is the cause of this mess. “Deregulation” as the boogieman is a talking point, not a policy. And it’s false.
Sorry man. I’ve been right this whole time and you’ve been stupid. I win.
I’ve been right this whole time and you’ve been stupid.
Riiiiiiiiight.
Okie-doke.
Just ignore me and don’t listen to me at all. You haven’t yet, so I’m certain it won’t change. Good luck.
Pleefer
Posted October 2, 2008 at 3:12 pm | Permalink
Sorry man. I’ve been right this whole time and you’ve been stupid. I win.
Gee, he sounds like like Paul!
Who’s Paul?
Go back and read any argument I’ve made…ANY of them at any time. Go back 2 years. ANY of my statements.
Deny all you want, it changes nothing.
Kick back, everything’s going to be all right. Just keep shopping.
Paul (aka Franklin) is our local economics expert. Says 40% is a majority. Anyone who dares disagree with him is an idiot.
Well, I just finished reading the Senate Banker Bill…and whew, my goodness gracious…
Just kiddin’ ya, but that sucker’s big, like “War and Peace”, must have taken them months to right all of that legalese.
Wait a sec…that was just under a coupla weeks right?
Man they know how to type.
Oh. I always imagined I was conversing with Ben Franklin somehow. I’m silly I know, but I think he’s Founding Father material.
I saw some pork for new NASCAR tracks under this new Bailout bill.
What in the heck are our legislaters doing in Washington?
I’d love to debate Franklin on Economics. Nothing would delight me more.
I’m just Pleefer, always been Pleefer. I don’t mess with nicknames all that much. I don’t pay much attention to the names, just what the comments are…UNLESS! Someone feels like insulting me. And then I’m always up for the challenge. The only difference is that I can say I was wrong and admit to it. No such luck coming from the insulter.
And if Paul Franklin is a stock broker that I may be taking business away from…he ought to try selling used cars. He wouldn’t have to replace his suit.
I heard Peter Schiff on Alex Jones today and he had some exciting thoughts.
He thought that when the government buys all of this bad debt, some would stop paying their mortgages and the banks couldn’t do squat. These folks (whomever chose to do that) could not pay on it for around a year then the government would call then up and say, “I know this mortgage is for $500K, but will you pay $300K for 30 years at 4%?”
Seems like it’s happening now.
Annuities etc I think …
Yeah, I believe that’s what it boils down to.
If that was the case I would also demand a rebate check of $50K as well (for extra foldin’ money to help with my shopping needs, it should last a month or so).
Re the debate YAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
wrong thread