We are in a recession and the only question is how deep it will be. A new fiscal stimulus package would, by redirecting spending and employment, prevent the U.S. economy from trending further into the danger zone. How large should the stimulus package be? Given the uncertainty involved, an immediate stimulus package of $200 billion, with preparation of an additional $100 billion to be triggered if unemployment goes over 7.5 percent, would be appropriate. Every taxpayer should be concerned about how this additional spending – on top of the $700 billion bailout package – will further contribute to the budget deficit. If the economy goes into a severe recession, however, tax revenues will fall sharply and the impact on the budget deficit likely will be even worse than the effects of the fiscal stimulus. – Martin Neil Baily, senior economics fellow at the Brookings Institution
The last stimulus plan was a tax rebate for most Americans. It was delivered during the spring and summer and was responsible, some economists say, for what amounted to a brief postponement of the worst of the worst. This is the problem with tax cuts, especially the one-time-only variety: You can buy whatever you want with the money. That includes cheap imports made with the cut-rate labor of exploited workers abroad. Job losses – as much as the credit squeeze that is partly responsible for them – are pushing us deeper and deeper into the hole. House Democrats are correctly pondering an immediate infusion of cash to the states. The second-best expenditure is in public-works projects, such as road repair or expansion and mass transit. Not only does this direct spending produce high-wage jobs, the infrastructure improvements pay off later in greater productivity for the work force. – Marie Cocco, Washington Post columnist
108 Comments
the stimulus checks aren’t going to help the economy.
Cut ALL extremely unConstitutional income taxes by half. Then let the spending create the revenues. That’s the only way to “fix” this.
BUT! This is ALL engineered and there really is no “fixing” it. We can make it a little more easy-going on our way to a global currency though.
Then again, we could get rid of the FED and IRS…
The answer is: Of course not.
Short term “fixes” do nothing to deal with the underlying reasons why we’re in this mess. The economic crisis is just the symtom of the greed, poor management, and irrespnsible decisions we’ve dealt with for many years in this country.
“Is another stimulus check a good idea?”
Absolutely.
That, and let’s look to creating WORK. “Jobs” is one person working to make another person money. Give people the chance to work for themselves.
We don’t need a stimulus check everytime we have a dip in the economy. The government can’t not continue to give away our money. I don’t think we are in a recession, it’s more like a market ajustment. I also think the MSM have done all they can to help push us into a dive with all their doom and gloom stories.
“I don’t think we are in a recession, it’s more like a market ajustment.”
Yeah. Death is not really real either, it is just an ajustment in physics.
“Market adjustment”.
“Market” this and that.
The “market” is numbers in the air. Paper assets. Virtual worth. All you can hold in your hand of it is money IF you are fortunate enough.
Let’s get away from basing the entire economy on how well the investor class is doing. “Worth” is in things that are real like good roads and bridges that don’t collapse.
Our government is foolishly spending the citizen’s money trying to forestall the inevitable. Recession is part of the normal business cycle.
You can’t stop the tide from coming in with a bucket. Even a really big bucket.
Democrats don’t promote stimulus checks, they raise taxes; They are going to try to wipe out the middle class, so that the rich elite exists to control the masses, don’t you get it?
I completely agree with you, Out. Another round of “incentive” checks will do nothing but deepen the already oppressive deficit and not change the economic cycle.
Granted, it was a nice “present”last spring..who doesn’t like extra cash? But it doesn’t seem like a realistic approach to the market instability.
What Stimulis Check??? I have Liver Cancer and am on Disability. They declared me perminantly Disabled in 1997. The Department of Education took my stimulis Check and billed me $7,000.oo on a $3,000.oo student loan. They said they lost my Defferment paperwork and then they took my stimulis check to go towards the $7,000.oo falsified default. They excepted my Doctors letter in August 2008 but stated “eventhough it states and proves I have been Perminantly Disabled since 1997, the Doctor signed their newest confirmation request as be signed August 2008 regarless of the original date”. They only offered the stimulis so they could RE-APPROPRIATE/STEAL FEDERAL FUNDS!!!! SAY No, too another stimulis theft of Federal Funds!!! Herbert West 3rd. http://www.HerbertWest3rd.com
BlueJay
Posted October 29, 2008 at 7:18 am | Permalink
“Is another stimulus check a good idea?”
Absolutely.
Color me shocked. BJ wants a hand out.
That, and let’s look to creating WORK. “Jobs” is one person working to make another person money. Give people the chance to work for themselves.
Color me shocked again. BJ wants more $$$ from the government.
And what’s wrong in it solie?
Our country was BUILT on giving people land on the promise they would work and improve it.
Somewhere along the way, we got lost into this idea that work is making someone else money. Why?
There is real estate and construction in this country that goes BEGGING for work and improvement. What’s wrong in people working for the government or for themselves as opposed to getting the rich richer?
Wrong, bj. The Homestead Act was passed in 1862. The country was not ‘built’ on it, since the country was already well established. There were approximately 1.6 million homesteads granted. There were many instances of fraud and corporate control, especially in the arid West with attempts to control water.
Not exactly a prime example of the benefits of welfare, now is it?
When the heart stops beating sometimes you have to break out the electric paddles and give it a jolt to get it going again.
Repubs have put the enonomy in the E.R.!
This Economy needs a shot of adrenaline. I think since the government is bailing out banks, and investment firms, they should at the same time, have the authority to fire all of the CEO’s since they bailed them out, and take the cumulative sum of all the CEO’s salaries for the next five years and pump it out back to the consumers in more rebate checks to help make up for all our tax money being used for the bailouts now. Then the government should have a little oversight in the replacement of the new ceo’s and put a cap on their salaries.
Who’s with me, on that?????
I thought someone would bring up this question.
Where is the money going to come from?
Thin Air?
China?
That is what I’d be worried about.
What I’m worried about is these are the idiots running our freakin nation. The dolts think they can throw (from WHERE?) money at this and make it go away. No lessons were learned from our last depression. We are making the same mistakes over again, only worse this time.
And again we are electing Liberals into the WH and Congress. Get ready for another 10 years of depression. Think we’ll learn next time? Of course not.
Barnie,
The stimulus money does not come from taxpayers. There is not enough taxpayer money in the system.
That is what deficit spending is. The government spends more money than it taxes and borrows.
I just don’t understand why none of the major candidiates is talking about cutting spending and balancing the budget?
Get ready for the New Deal of the 21st century.
I agree with you Barnie. If the taxpayers are bailing these companies out, then we should have the right to say as to is in charge of the company. And obviously the CEO in charge of a failed company needs to be shown the door and without that golden parachute to land on!
Way I see it, from all the old Republican posts, is, it’s not going to increase our taxes because only the extremely wealthy pay taxes anyway!
Guess George and Palin are qualified to be pres., because they’re just like the neighbor next door, but to be a CEO, you must be from the upper crust, educated and compensated beyond your wildest dreams.
Blue Jay is right.
The early family dynasties were all built on free land and, of course, slave labor.
Even the White House was built by slave labor.
Most of the extreme wealth in this country is still based on a system that rewards having money and punishes having to work.
Someone showed me an old poem by William Blake that I hadn’t read since college days. I didn’t weep over it, but almost.
Here’s the kind of world that the CONs want to take us back too . . . if we’re not in it enough already:
When my mother died I was very young,
And my father sold me while yet my tongue
Could scarcely cry ” ‘weep ! ‘weep ! ‘weep ! ‘weep ! ”
So your chimneys I sweep, & in soot I sleep.
There’s little Tom Dacre, who cried when his head,
That curl’d like a lamb’s back, was shav’d: so I said
“Hush, Tom ! never mind it, for when your head’s bare
You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair.”
And so he was quiet, & that very night,
As Tom was a-sleeping, he had such a sight ! —
That thousand of sweepers, Dick, Joe, Ned, & Jack,
Were all of them lock’d up in coffins of black.
And by came an Angel who had a bright key,
And he open’d the coffins & set them all free;
Then down a green plain leaping, laughing, they run,
And wash in a river, and shine in the Sun.
Then naked & white, all their bags left behind,
They rise upon clouds and sport in the wind;
And the Angel told Tom, if he’d be a good boy,
He’d have God for his father, & never want joy.
And so Tom awoke; and we rose in the dark,
And got with our bags & our brushes to work.
Tho’ the morning was cold, Tom was happy & warm;
So if all do their duty they need not fear harm.
mom,
There is not enough money in the system for Barnie’s plan to work.
If you took all CEO’s salaries and gave them to the government it would only total about 10 billion.
This is not even close to the amount of money the government needs to keep up with its spending.
The only just answer is for the government to cut its spending and give the money back to the taxpayer.
How illogical is it for the government to take money I would spend as a consumer and give it to GM or Ford?
They have done so poorly with their own money, that I don’t think my money would be a good investment for me or the country.
If you think about it Capn, we have now become slaves to the government.
The national debt is money that we owe to the government. The only way they are going to get that money is by us working hard for them.
I’ve taken of my libertarian-conservative hat for now. I am just trying to talk common sense now.
You cannot spend more money than you actually have. This rule also applies to a government.
Can we all at least agree with this?
Hey Sol – don’t look now but it was conservatives that have brought us to this point by spending like there is no tomorrow.
George W. Bush and Republicans had 6 years of total control and what did they do with it?
Besides, that, Republicans controlled Congress (the purse strings) from 1994 to 2006 and what did this Conservative bunch do with the spending and balancing the budget?
Seems to me you want to blame the liberals but Conservatives have been in the driver’s seat for a lot of years.
“The early family dynasties were all built on free land and, of course, slave labor.”
Direct ancestors of mine were on both ends of that equation. Some owned slaves and some were indentured servants.
It’s a little disquieting to find that your ancestors OWNED human beings.
But we’ve come to a stage close to that today.
“So if all do their duty they need not fear harm.”
The searing lightning bolt of that irony . . . the innocence of the boy who looks to the “wise words” of the very people that literally work him to death, with the promise of pie in the sky by and by to mollify his living hell on earth.
Yup, Cons. We tried your ideas in 1800 when men played cricket on green lawns and boys died in mines and chained to looms. We tried your ideas in 1840 when England allowed millions of Irish to die the potato famine so they could experience the uplifting lesson of the “marketplace disciple” rather than send them food or money.
Screw that and screw you.
We’re all in this together.
mom,
You have identified the problem. I don’t even mind that you blame Republicans exclusively, but I suppose you think the solution is to cut spending.
I hope that the party you support is ready to do this. Otherwise, we’d have a real mess on our hands.
Two parties that spend too much.
Actually I predict in two years from now, the economy will be booming, and Bush can partly be thanked for that. Actually, I bet the next 16 years will be the most prosperous American has seen. More so than the Clinton Era.
I bet in six years the dollar will be in equal or greater value than the Euro.
Austrian – I know there is not enough money but that’s not my point. My point was that I agree that the current CEO’s that we taxpayers have bailed out should be shown the door and without any golden parachute to land on.
Everyone knows that a budget is broken when there is more spending than income coming in; but when has that ever stopped the politicians?
As for Sol’s posting – he seems to blame only the liberals coming into the WH for the depression coming. And that is simply not true.
But the public perception is that if taxpayers can bail out the Wall Street crooks – they can send stimulus checks to the average Americans. And to tell you the truth, I don’t blame the people for thinking that way. Average people are tired of seeing all the wealth go to the top 5% wealthiest in this country.
Sol blames Democrats and Republicans.
Trying to peg him as a Neo-Con that hates Liberals is going to be tough around these parts.
If Obama can lift the economy out of the Repub sewer, you know bush will get the credit. Barnie’s already setting up the scenario.
“You cannot spend more money than you actually have.”
FALSE.
If that were true, practically no one could afford to buy a house until they were 50 or 60 years old.
What you meant to say was that “you cannot spend more money than you actually have indefinitely if you’re a human being, because human beings must eventually die.”
Governments however do not die, because they are funded by wave after wave of on-going generations.
So, yeah, they can keep racking up debt forever as long as people are willing to fund it.
The reality is however that the economy GROWS. So if one were to reduce spending to below inflation–as Clinton-Gore did–then the growing economy would pay down the debt–as it did in Clinton-Gore years.
You’re seeing, Austrian, that you really weren’t educated at that unaccredited college in Alabama.
You were propagandized. That why in the free marketplace of ideas, your school of economics is held in unmitigated ridicule.
mom,
You haven’t really addressed the question. You say, “When has that ever stopped the Politicians?”
It hasn’t and that is the point. Until you put people into office that are going to stop deficit spending, it is irrelevant who you put into office.
“Here’s the kind of world that the CONs want to take us back too . . . if we’re not in it enough already: Blah, blah, blah, blah…
CapnAmerica
Posted October 29, 2008 at 9:55 am |
—————
Continuing on the line of the thought that liberals must categorize and divide people; unable to handle ideas and people individually, CapnAmerica, an avowed liberal, attempts to vilify half of America while trying to make a point.
As you noticed, he failed. Again.
Barnie
Posted October 29, 2008 at 10:04 am | Permalink
Actually I predict in two years from now, the economy will be booming,
I’ll put a month’s pay against that. There are two socialist candidates running for the top spot. The majority of Congress will be liberal.
21st cent. New Deal indeed. Problem is most folks don’t realize that is what drug out the depression for the US.
Hands free. Let those who screwed up fail. Let those who made smart decisions buy up the failuers and shred them in the market.
Government intervention will lenghten, not lessen, the pain we deserve. This is an economic cycle. The market demands the cycles. Intervention makes the cycle harder.
For those looking for handouts, try a socialist/communist country. But stay away from France. They’ve seen that model doesn’t work and are leaving it.
Y’all bright enough to see that? Probably not.
Just like the partisan hacks that want to blame one party or another. You are too blind to see that the political system is the problem. The Fed is the problem.
Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often. And both for the same reason.
outhouse–
When we ride to glory next week, even you will share in the new prosperity and opportunities we create.
When we bring the boys back from Iraq so they don’t have to die for a pack of lies, even your family and friends will be brought back.
When we create universal healthcare, even you and your loved ones will benefit from it.
When we fund books instead of bombs, even your kids will benefit.
The most divisive people in America are the CONs–listen to Palin talking about “real America,” listen to Joe McCain (the brother) talking about the “communists” who live in Northern Virginia, listen to outlander himself who calls Obama a terrorist.
Let the repudiation of Worst. President. Ever. and everything he stands for begin . . .
Capn,
I think it is you who has been propagandized. To assume that each generation will be willing to fund such spending shows how your school of economic thought completely forgets about social realities.
At least the Austrians thought about the social ramifications of Keyensianism.
It seems as though your school of thought is the one who needs to convince humans of how great their ideas are.
Austrians, however, do not. Their truths have been there since the beginning of time, and will continue to be long after we’re gone.
Whether or not people listen and apply the teachings is completely up to how long Keyensians can keep up the propaganda.
My thought is based on logic and truth, yours is based upon how long you can continue to convince the masses that deficit spending and trade imbalances are actually good things.
As for Sol’s posting – he seems to blame only the liberals coming into the WH for the depression coming. And that is simply not true.
Agreed that it is not true. But you assumed I blame the liberals. I blame the House, the Senate, and the President over the last 14 years.
This is not new. This was foreseen by many. But no one acted because it would lessen their re-election bid.
The truth? The American people are at fault for keeping these vagabonds in office.
Where are the cries for Liberty? Where are the cries for representation? The majority of Americans were against the $700 billion bailout, but the bill passed and was signed into law. How many of you will overcome your partisan politics and vote for those that opposed the bailout and voted the will of the people?
I am betting right around 1% of those posting here. Getting ‘your party’ in power means more to you than a sound government.
As per the liberals taking power, history has proven that they do not make the best economic decisions in times of distress – read Carter and the 1929 depression.
“When we fund books instead of bombs, even your kids will benefit.”
I’ll bet you a years salary that we continue to keep troops in 130 countries all over the world.
We will be funding UN resolutions too.
Anytime you wanna talk about foreign policy, let me know.
Capn: You are correct that we are all in this boat together. But you are one of those who would end up getting tossed off of most boats. You insult, you lie, you instigate. For instance, I have never called Obama a terrorist.
You and folks like you are a prime reason that I could never belong to the Democrat party. And you turn so many off that you impede the growth of your party.
I suppose we should be grateful.
“So, yeah, they can keep racking up debt forever as long as people are willing to fund it.”
Sounds like you need to keep convincing each generation to fund the spending.
What will this require?
Propaganda.
I am well aware of how economies grow with deficit spending. They grow a lot quicker too. They also use up the earths resources a lot quicker too. There are only a finite number of those resources.
Face it, at some point you are going to have to look to innovation from the marketplace to help this problem.
No government is going to provide that kind of innovation.
Another question. What is wrong with saving? You would actually have an explosion of growth in the economy if people would save during times of recession.
When we bring the boys back from Iraq so they don’t have to die for a pack of lies, even your family and friends will be brought back.
What plan is in place to accomplish this?
When we create universal healthcare, even you and your loved ones will benefit from it.
How will this be funded?
When we fund books instead of bombs, even your kids will benefit.
We will always need a strong national defense. Or do you and your party advocate open borders? How will the illegal aliens fall into the universal health care plan? Social security? Unemplyment?
Capn,
You seem to understand the Keyensian Cross fairly well.
Do you know the Hayekian Triangle?
Check it out sometime. You may be surprised.
Go to this link Capn:
http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/macro.htm
Take the time to watch all three PowerPoint presentations.
This is the best way to understand Keyens and Hayek that I have ever seen. I was really impressed with the teachers easy to understand presentations.
Make an informed decision after watching these.
Does anyone get it? Am I the only one who sees our nation is broke – but our politicians keep wanting to hand out more FREE MONEY, that they (we) don’t have?
Trickle up works no better than trickle down.
BlueJay
Posted October 29, 2008 at 7:18 am | Permalink
“Give people the chance to work for themselves.”
How’s that working for you JR?
Austrian_Economist
Posted October 29, 2008 at 9:42 am | Permalink
“Where is the money going to come from?”
Congress has an orchard full of Money Trees out back. It’s located at 801 9th St NE, Washington, D.C.. They won’t bother waiting until next summer when the next crop comes on. They will send the pickers out all year.
SolDevVB
Posted October 29, 2008 at 10:23 am | Permalink
“The truth? The American people are at fault for keeping these vagabonds in office.”
Amen. And being stupid enough to fall for the blue and red teams they try to herd us all in to.
Thanks Amway.
My question was rhetorical, but I have a feeling that most didn’t know that.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 29, 2008 at 10:21 am | Permalink
“Let the repudiation of Worst. President. Ever.”
PRINCETON, NJ – (May 14th) Approval of Congress has dipped below 20% for only the fourth time in the 34 years Gallup has asked Americans to rate the job Congress is doing.
Congress: NBC/Wall Street Journal
10/17-20/08 12% Approve 79% Disapprove
President Bush: NBC/Wall Street Journal
10/17-20/08 27% Approve 66% Disapprove
Worst Congress. Ever.
And we’ll keep voting the bought-and-paid-for vagabonds into office. All for the party line.
So who here is willing to break party lines to vote outside their party to get those in office that will do the people’s will? I’m voting for a hard line liberal next cycle because she voted my will.
Who else has the balls to vote outside their box for congressional leaders that vote the people’s will?
Pelosi stated a few months back she wants another ‘rebate’ check. She is starting her welfare society a little early…
You can always tear up your check and send it back.
But you won’t.
Hypocrites.
I have in the past, and I will in the future.
I don’t have a “party”. I used to. But they have not proven to stand for what they used to pretend to.
Matter of fact, I was just remembering when it used to be Republicans running on tax cuts, and Democrats against tax cuts. Even reading the posts on this thread today, there are many people here who have posted views which are closer together than we want to admit.
The national debt.
The first stimulus 150 billion.
The 700 Billion bailout.
The proposed stimulus.
But many actually believe their party will support those values. Fear mostly. People don’t want to leave the safety of the flock.
mxyzptlk
Posted October 29, 2008 at 11:59 am | Permalink
You can always tear up your check and send it back.
That would be stupid. It’s free money.
Better to donate it to the charity of your choice. Or maybe the appropriate socialist party near you.
You could pay off debt with the stimulus check too.
Of course this would hurt the banks because they like having your debt as an asset, while you keep it as a liability.
“American_Way
Posted October 29, 2008 at 11:08 am | Permalink
Does anyone get it? Am I the only one who sees our nation is broke – but our politicians keep wanting to hand out more FREE MONEY, that they (we) don’t have?
Trickle up works no better than trickle down.”
I agree with that. Deficit spending needs to be reduced with a goal of eliminating it.
Someone up the blog posted that taxpayers are not paying for the bailout and possible stimulus checks, but that is incorrect. Taxpayers are paying for the interest on the loans the government takes out to pay the stimulus checks, and taxpayers will eventually repay the principal.
We are walking a fine line, and we are all responsible and will all have to pay to fix it.
We are walking a fine line, and we are all responsible and will all have to pay to fix it.
OutFREAKINstanding. Someone does get it. Point at parties all you like, the crux is that we the people are responsible in the end.
If your politician votes against your will – the bailout, deficit spending, etc – vote their sorry a@@es out of office.
Some of you are rediculous. BrianN you said it best. We got our selves into this mess. So we think instead of us overleveraging ourselves we will have the gov’t do it for us. The gov’t will have it’s own financial crisis if we keep this up. Take responsibility for your OWN actions. If you want more money get a 2nd or 3rd job. THe american dream is an opportunity, NOT a handout!
There should be no bailouts for anyone (and there should not have been one for the banking industry).
In a free market, there must be downturns. If the government artificially keeps the market up all the time, it is no longer capitalism and is not a free market.
No. Next question.
Hell fire. Looks like as far as the economy is concerned, many lose the party blinders. Less, of course, Capn & BlueJay. They alwyas have a hand out waiting for gubmint cheese.
It is the economy, stupid. Both leading candidates DON’T GET IT!!!! They both will make things worse.
but Brian…free market is the enemy. We must “redistribute” the wealth..take from the successful and give to the people who won’t work.
Sadly, that has extreme consequences, as first listed by Thomas Jefferson when he said:
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
“Raptor
Posted October 29, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink
but Brian…free market is the enemy. We must “redistribute” the wealth..take from the successful and give to the people who won’t work.
Sadly, that has extreme consequences, as first listed by Thomas Jefferson when he said:
…”
We have had a progressive tax rate since the federal income tax was first introduced. Taxing higher income people and businesses more is nothing new, and it seems to have worked most of the time.
On the other hand, a “stimulus” check would go nicely toward that eeeeevil black AR-15 I’m planning on buying before some idiot politician (redundancy alert) tells me I can’t.
And, given his opportunity, Obama will restrict firearms; he cares nothing about the 2nd amendment. His record says so, no matter what his pandering lips say.
“We are walking a fine line, and we are all responsible and will all have to pay to fix it.”
Brian you are like cold water to a thirsty soul.
Am I looking in a mirror?
“GMC70″ –
Save your money on the AR-15.
A prescription for Viagra cures the same problem.
Your problem, MH, not mine.
Must be that vaunted liberal “tolerance” talking again . . . . . . .
The blame ultimately lies with “We the People”.
We will get exactly the government we deserve.
Lack of critical thinking skills will be looked at as the death of this Republic.
Parents should be ashamed for not teaching their children these skills. We live in the information age and all that we need to teach is at our fingertips, yet we worry about unimportant things.
Every generation is responsible for teaching the next generation the ideas that were learned from the past. The mistakes as well. We have failed to do this and now we are going to work much harder than we had to because of that lack of knowledge.
Austrian–
I have no interest in your links.
I already studied macro and micro economics at an accredited Midwestern University.
It’s a government-funded place that actually believes government can make a better society in which to live.
A_E,
You don’t think the kid’s can learn from Jerry Springer or the NFL?
You make good sense there AE.
You give people Democracy and eventually they vote themselves right out of it with entitlements.
A broad stroke there I realize, but hopefully you get the idea.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 29, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
Austrian–
I have no interest in your links.
I already studied macro and micro economics at an accredited Midwestern University.
It’s a government-funded place that actually believes government can make a better society in which to live.
_______________________________________________
And that is why no one on here takes you seriously Capn.
Those PowerPoints are from a professor at Auburn University in Alabama.
I’ll have you know, since we’re showing off credentials that I have a Bachelors degree and a Masters degree in Finance.
Just so you don’t think I didn’t learn from all sides of the spectrum.
Mr_Kia
Posted October 29, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink
You make good sense there AE.
You give people Democracy and eventually they vote themselves right out of it with entitlements.
A broad stroke there I realize, but hopefully you get the idea.
_______________________________________________
I did see a glimmer of hope when the American people blew up the Washington D.C. switchboards urging their elected officials to vote no on the bailout.
That hope was dashed when the elected officials voted for it anyway.
The ball is back in “We the People’s” court again. Now we need to vote out those who voted against the will of the people.
So why then do you reject the true and cling to the false, Austrian?
BTW, you told Boxlock about two months ago that buying gold in this market was a good idea.
Let’s see how that worked out for Boxlock:
30 days ago, price fell from 900 to 800 today.
60 days ago, price fell from 850 to 800 today.
OUCH!
Now we need to vote out those who voted against the will of the people.
YOU’RE DAMN RIGHT
I will vote Democrat in the next cycle for senator. She goes against every plank I hold true, but by God she listened and voted the will of the people.
Levin, not so much. I’d vote Green Party over Levin. You should have seen the BS carbon copy email I got back from his staff WEEKS after the vote. Pure crap.
CapnAmerica
Posted October 29, 2008 at 2:32 pm | Permalink
So why then do you reject the true and cling to the false, Austrian?
BTW, you told Boxlock about two months ago that buying gold in this market was a good idea.
Let’s see how that worked out for Boxlock:
30 days ago, price fell from 900 to 800 today.
60 days ago, price fell from 850 to 800 today.
OUCH!
________________________________________________
Gold is not an investment like real stock.
Boxlock and I understand that and we treat gold differently.
Gold is real money that emerged from a free market place centuries ago.
Gold has special properties. It does not corrode. One ounce can be beaten and stretched for miles. It is easily divisible.
When our FIAT currency crashes and returns to its true intinsic value, zero, you will wished you had some.
All 3800 FIAT currencies have failed throughout history. The dollar will meet the same fate one day.
Gold is not a stock and should not be treated as one. Looking at its price only just shows how little you truly understand.
You need to read philosophy, history, and economics books to truly grasp the concepts.
Let me know if you are interested. I have a bookshelf full of these kinds of books. Growing your mind is really the only choice you have in this world we live in.
Your mind is your only true ruler. It is sovereign. Those who do not grow it and cultivate it will be madfe slaves by the ones who do.
Since you want to look at commodities in an investment sense, let me help you out a little. Every commodity has been in a price decline lately.
I like to call this a dead cat bounce. Once the inflation of our money supply hits Main street, you will continue to see long term prices of commodities climb.
If you want to look at Gold as an investment, now is a great buying opportunity. The government has shown no sign of slowing its spending and increasing the money supply. The recent bailout will only accelerate the destruction of our FIAT currency.
Gold is also a good buying opportunity for those who understand its value as a real money and choose not to look at it as an investment.
It would behoove people to get rid of there FIAT dollars and buy things with some intinsic value.
Having a dollar sit around and do nothing but lose value is something you do at your own risk.
Only keep enough FIAT dollars to stay liquid. Just for day to day purchases. You should have none sitting around and losing value to inflation.
I’ll take it as a good sign that you spend more time on here critcisizing me rather than sharing with us how your ideas of socialism are just so much better for the individual.
Get out your Marx books and please share with us how redistribution of wealth makes this nation anymore wealthier.
Get out your communist manifesto and share the 12 planks that need to be in place for a communist society to thrive.
Tell me how Obama is really going to change America with his old, tired ideas that have been tried by many long and forgotten empires.
I think that you need to truly understand what kind of ideas you preach in here day in and day out.
You would not like the conclusions you came to if you really understood what it is you preach to us.
sorry for the mispell earlier. I meant to say criticizing.
and misspelling misspell too.
lol
Now you’ve done it AE. You’ll never hear from CapnSocialism again :-b
The government handing out checks for $300 or $600 each? Sounds like socialism to me. Did anybody here vote for the socialist President who spread the wealth around in 2001?
“Tell me how Obama is really going to change America with his old, tired ideas that have been tried by many long and forgotten empires.”
Ideas like fighting a foreign war of occupation with borrowed money? Sure that’s brought down a few civilizations in the past, but what are the chances the same actions will produce the same results?
Oh, you said Obama. My mistake. I didn’t realize long forgotten empires had universal health care and pay-as-you-go government.
Gee Davy,
Obama has proposed the Stimulous Check, so
IT MUST BE A GOOD THING!
(Brownlib, could Obama be W R O N G ???)
GMC70
Posted October 29, 2008 at 1:09 pm | Permalink
On the other hand, a “stimulus” check would go nicely toward that eeeeevil black AR-15 I’m planning on buying before some idiot politician (redundancy alert) tells me I can’t.
And, given his opportunity, Obama will restrict firearms; he cares nothing about the 2nd amendment. His record says so, no matter what his pandering lips say.
==========================================================
PURRFECT!
I made this recommendation for the last stimulous check.
Last time I got the XD45 Compact.
The next stimulous check will go to an AR.
(No need to hurry to get on though GMC)
And President Obama will pay us again to buy back those same guns, when the Feds confiscate our firearms.
Double Dippin!
Yeeeee
Hawwwwwwwwww!!!!!
Austrian–
Wow, nice ad homenim invective there. You’re a CON after all, I see. You and Sollie were a match made in heaven. Good thing you can’t get married.
Now as for me being a “communist,” I did live in RED China for a year in the 1980’s.
I didn’t like it.
It looked to me as though the communist gov’t had succeeded in making everyone “equal” by making them all equally poor.
Still, poor is better than dead, which is what a lot of Chinese were before 1949.
If that didn’t put a lump in your throat and moisten your eyes, you must be a Kansas Repub.
Obama understands the problems, and offers solutions.
I like the part about giving tax credits to employers that hire Americans, (instead of giving tax credits to foreign workers they hire), also about taking away tax breaks for those that ship our jobs overseas (so the upper echelons can make bigger bonuses)
Obama’s a hybrid between Kennedy and Clinton, and will get this country at least headed in the right direction.
““Give people the chance to work for themselves.”
How’s that working for you JR?”
Why are you opposed to it?
I’ve not bothered to look into your Austrian crap. But given your posts here, I’ve a good idea it goes to feudalism
Just WHEN did it become an accepted fact that we have to live as serfs to people who have more money than us?
“Be here when I say!”
“Do as I tell you. Wouldn’t hurt to kiss my ass now and again!”
To hell with that. The SECOND a man works for another man, he is less free.
“It would behoove people to get rid of there FIAT dollars and buy things with some intinsic value.”
That’s what I keep telling you, AE, and you keep avoiding the issue.
NOTHING has intrinsic value . . . until it is valued by society.
Hunter-gathers would take Sarah Palin’s clothes and tear them up for rope.
An arrow head is more precious than the Hope Diamond to a Bushman.
When society’s standard of living goes down, everything goes down. Look at corn and hamburger during the depression.
I believe that they have “intrinsic value,” don’t they? So why did their value fall through the floor?
Because society didn’t have enough wealth to bid the prices up.
Looks like I’ve been posting my comments on the speech on the wrong thread, oh well.
BlueJay
Posted October 29, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink
To hell with that. The SECOND a man works for another man, he is less free.
========================================================
What planet are you on BJ? Where do you get your money if not from someone else?
And in exchange for what?
When I do a job I get the pay.
Someone else does not get a cut and then give me what’s left.
Now that is not viable for the balance of the work force.
A man alone cannot build a rocket ship.
But this country NEEDS to err toward those who do the work and care second about management and shareholders. Our laws and labor standards should recognize the fact that a man working for someone else is not free.
Sounds like an excuse not to work, from someone who can’t get along with others and work as part of a team.
Yup, just about no product bought and sold today would be made, if not made by a Company of people. But BJ has some ‘high standards’ which prevent him from working for a company.
You never answered 1) What work you do in exchange for money, and 2) Who you get that money from. (It must not come from another person according to what you posted.)
BlueJay
Posted October 29, 2008 at 9:13 pm | Permalink
When I do a job I get the pay.
Someone else does not get a cut and then give me what’s left.
================================================================
BJ, you sound like a Capitalist! And it sounds like you cheat the tax man by getting cash from somewhere under the table too.
But it’s OK, no it’s MANDATORY that Someone Else work and pay taxes for the Federal Socialist Programs you are looking to tap in to.
Damn, I hate it when someone takes money out of my back pocket too.
BJ is For or Against theft from your back pocket? For or Against Obama?
Strange character is he.
Homosexual (BJ) might be?
Say Rocky, watch me pull another rabbit stimulous check out of my hat!
Again!