Two things stood out immediately about the vice presidential candidates’ strategies for their lone debate Thursday night: Joe Biden had decided to debate not his opponent but rather the top of the GOP ticket, his old friend John McCain. And Sarah Palin had decided that if she didn’t like a question, she’d ignore it and answer a question that hadn’t been asked, our editorial today argues. Palin did well by outperforming the low expectations set by her incoherent interviews over the past few weeks. That appealing personality so on display at the GOP convention was back, too, as the self-described “Main Streeter” punctuated her praise for McCain and her populist talking points with folksy phrases like “bless their hearts” and “darn right.”
But Biden won on content and debate points. A survey of debate viewers by CNN/Opinion Research gave Biden a 51 to 36 percent win, and a CBS poll had him 46 to 21 percent over Palin.
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- SolDevVB on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/24
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/24
- Blaidd_Drwg69 on Whose ‘unchecked spending’?
186 Comments
At the close of the debate:
Palin: “We will fight for it, and there is only one man in this race who has really ever fought for you, and that’s Sen. John McCain.”
Biden: “May God bless all of you, and most of all, for both of us, selfishly, may God protect our troops.”
I know who I’m voting for!
When you “do something about” a problem, you should be aware of what is causing the problem.
Palin: cause of global warming ‘doesn’t matter’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081001/ts_alt_afp/usvoterepublicanspalinclimate
“Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said Tuesday that global warming is “real,” but stressed that it “kind of doesn’t matter” whether or not humans are to blame for climate change.
…
“But it kind of doesn’t matter at this point in the debate what caused it. The point is it’s real, we need do something about it.” ”
————
What does “kind of doesn’t matter” mean? Where is that between it does, or does not matter?
It a good thing that Sarah Palin has a journalism degree — otherwise she wouldn’t be able to express her thoughts clearly. (sarcasm off)
It a good thing that Sarah Palin has a journalism degree — otherwise she wouldn’t be able to express her thoughts clearly. (sarcasm off)
——–
You must not know many “journalist”.
ANTI,
So what exactly does “kind of doesn’t matter” mean?
cosmos
Palin’s position on GW is sound.
The world might be warming, we need to learn how to deal with that fact, we need to adapt.
The warming or cooling will happen, no matter what we do.
So, we should adapt.
cosmos_originally
Posted October 3, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink
ANTI,
So what exactly does “kind of doesn’t matter” mean?
——-
Piss on Global Warming, I am from Alaska…..where it is freaking COLD!
Does that help cosmos?
“ICYMI: Joe Biden Cites Deleware Restaurant Closed For Many Years
“During the debate, Joe Biden gave several Delaware shout-outs, including Wilmington’s Union Street… Maybe, I heard this wrong, or misunderstood, but I think he mentioned Katie’s restaurant…… Wilmington used to have a Katie’s restaurant – way back in the day – and it was in Little Italy, as is Union Street, but I’m almost positive Katie’s wasn’t on Union Street. And it hasn’t been Katie’s in, well, years. Maybe he said Kozy’s – as in Kozy Korner?” — The News Journal
“Can I respond? Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie’s Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.” — Joe Biden
“Joe Gives Delaware Shout-Outs”
Patricia Talorico
The [Wilmington, DE] News Journal
October 2, 2008
During the debate, Joe Biden gave several Delaware shout-outs, including Wilmington’s Union Street…
Maybe, I heard this wrong, or misunderstood, but I think he mentioned Katie’s restaurant……
Wilmington used to have a Katie’s restaurant – way back in the day – and it was in Little Italy, as is Union Street, but I’m almost positive Katie’s wasn’t on Union Street.
And it hasn’t been Katie’s in, well, years. Maybe he said Kozy’s – as in Kozy Korner?”
Speaking of Polls – How about this AP Poll Cooking Session?
Can you say, “In the tank for Democrats?”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2008/10/02/cooking-ap-polls-radically-changes-party-mix-fabricate-obama-trend
econ,
So your argument is that Sen McCain is WRONG about AGW?
What They’re Saying About Governor Sarah Palin On Wash U. Debate: Volume 4
Governor Palin “Ended Up Dominating” The Debate, As She “Seemed To Hit Her Stride”
Politico’s Roger Simon: “Sarah Palin was supposed to fall off the stage at her vice presidential debate Thursday evening. Instead, she ended up dominating it. She not only kept Joe Biden on the defensive for much of the debate, she not only repeatedly attacked Barack Obama, but she looked like she was enjoying herself while doing it. She smiled. She faced the camera. She was warm. She was human. Gosh and golly, she even dropped a bunch of g’s.” (Roger Simon, “You Betcha Sarah Palin Can Debate,” Politico, 10/2/08)
Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody: “Combining a happy warrior spirit with a home-spun style and some substance thrown in to boot, Palin proved that she belonged on that stage with Joe Biden tonight.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
Brody: “As for Palin, she seemed to hit her stride tonight. She offered more substance on issues like healthcare, energy policy, taxes and even Darfur by explaining how her role as Governor played a part.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
The Washington Post’s Dan Balz: ” In a fast-paced exchange about a range of domestic and foreign policy issues, she was the aggressive campaigner who in the first weeks of her candidacy had so energized the Republican faithful.” (Dan Balz, “Palin Delivers, But Doubts Linger,” The Washington Post, 10/3/08)
ABC’s George Stephanopoulos: “From the minute Palin walked onstage and said, ‘Nice to meet you, Joe — can I call you Joe?’ she had her performance down. It was very winning and very appealing and we saw that throughout the debate.” (George Stephanopoulos, “Stephanopoulos: VP Debate Report Card,” ABC News, 10/3/08)
National Review: “Gov. Sarah Palin, once again, confounded her critics with a strong performance. She did it at the Republican convention, and she did it again last night in her debate with Sen. Joe Biden. She performed with poise and charm. She effectively made the case that Senator Obama would be nave in foreign policy and harmful to economic growth, and that Senator McCain would be a common-sense reformer.” (Editorial, “Palin’s Triumph,” National Review, 10/3/08)
National Review: “She handled questions about Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran well. She connected domestic-policy arguments to the lives of average voters. Anyone who hoped — or feared — that she would fall flat on her face was proven wrong.” (Editorial, “Palin’s Triumph,” National Review, 10/3/08)
National Review’s Byron York: “Palin delivered a strong and sure performance Thursday night.” (Byron York, “Sarah Palin, The Winner By A Wink,” National Review, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Eight real-life ‘hockey moms’ plucked from the ice to watch the vice-presidential face-off last night said their high-profile counterpart from Alaska dealt her critics a bell-ringing body check.” (Brendan Scott, “Sarah Scores!” New York Post, 10/3/08)
New York Daily News: “Sarah Palin gave as good as she got in her televised faceoff with Joe Biden Thursday night – and by that measure she shored up her standing as John McCain’s vice presidential running mate. Palin sailed through the 90 minutes with none of the unsteadiness she had shown in TV interviews. She was both assured and down-home folksy in arguing the case for McCain and against Barack Obama.” (Editorial, “Sarah Palin Scores,” [New York] Daily News, 10/3/08)
Dick Morris & Eileen McGann: “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair.” (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
Dick Morris & Eileen McGann: “Last night was a big, big win for Sarah Palin. She showed originality, charisma and sass – a style that is refreshing and different in our politics. She didn’t just win the vice-presidential debate, she showed that she belongs with Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton as among the best communicators of our modern political times.” (Dick Morris and Eileen McGann, Op-Ed, “Palin Wins Big With A Reagan-Like Flair,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
The Wall Street Journal: “A confident, folksy Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin attacked the Democratic presidential ticket Thursday over tax hikes and partisanship, holding her own against her vice-presidential rival, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden.” (Laura Meckler, “Biden, Palin Clash On Taxes, Iraq In Sharp-Edged Debate,” The Wall Street Journal, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Fred Barnes: “Was she capable of being vice president? Based on her debate performance, the answer was yes.” (Fred Barnes, Op-Ed, “Comeback,” The Weekly Standard, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes: “She won because to a vast majority of those who watched the debate tonight she likely came off as a plausible vice president. And that was all that mattered.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Anchorage Daily News: “But Palin kept her cool, stayed on her game and lived up to her reputation as a spirited debater. She played to her strengths — her ability to connect with people like a neighbor and her resilience. Despite the contempt and criticism she’s endured in recent days, she walked onto the stage like a candidate on top of the world. She shook hands with Biden and said ‘Hey, can I call you Joe?’ That opening line was friendly, down-to-earth and said, ‘We’re equals.’” (Editorial, “Palin Hits Her Stride,” Anchorage Daily News, 10/3/08)
Denver Post: “This thing’s not over yet. She held her own. In what was likely one of the most-watched vice presidential debates in the country’s history, Sarah Palin went in as the underdog Thursday night and came out of it with nary a scratch.” (Editorial, “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate,” Denver Post, 10/3/08)
Denver Post: “In her opening answer to a question about the troubled economy, Palin spoke with clarity and confidence and got to the heart of the matter with the kind of populist candor she displayed at the Republican National Convention. ‘Go to a kid’s soccer game on Saturday and ask any parent what they think about the economy, and I betcha you’re going to hear about fear,’ Palin said. ‘Our economy is hurting.’” (Editorial, “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate,” Denver Post, 10/3/08)
Governor Palin Turned Biden’s Words Against Him
New York Daily News: “Most effectively, perhaps, she turned Biden’s past criticisms of Obama’s plans for Iraq against Biden, adding, ‘John McCain knows how to win a war.’” (Editorial, “Sarah Palin Scores,” [New York] Daily News, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Sarah Palin used folksy language, winks, smiles and sharp elbows to try to put seasoned rival Joe Biden on the defensive in last night’s vice-presidential debate.” (Geoff Earle, “Pit Bull Sarah Shows Her Bite,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes: “Palin surfaced issues that put Joe Biden on the defensive or, at the very least, made him uncomfortable. And she had several moments where she scored clean hits on Biden and Barack Obama: on clean coal, on the patriotism of raising taxes, on Obama saying one thing to one group of voters and something different to another, on Biden criticizing Obama for his vote on troop funding in Iraq, when she reminded Biden that he himself said that he’d be privileged to run on a ticket with John McCain.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Hayes: “When Biden complained that Republicans have taken to repeating the ‘drill, drill, drill’ mantra, she owned it and gently corrected him. ‘I think the chant is drill, baby, drill.’ It was a clever turn, and judging from virtually every poll on the issue, it was politically very smart.” (Stephen Hayes, Op-Ed, “A Plausible Vice President,” The Weekly Standard, http://www.weeklystandard.com, 10/3/08)
Chicago Sun-Times’ Steve Huntley: “Appearing assertive and confident in her national debate premiere, Palin battled Sen. Joseph Biden on a broad range of issues — the Wall Street meltdown, taxes and spending, Iraq, foreign relations, which candidate best represents change — and more than held her own.” (Steve Huntley, Op-Ed, “Palin Eases GOP Jitters, You Betcha,” Chicago Sun-Times, 10/3/08)
Huntley: “On international issues, the area where she has been considered to be weak, Palin appeared to get under Biden’s skin when she criticized Barack Obama for saying he would meet without preconditions with some of the world’s worse dictators. Biden’s face turned grim, and he went so far as to deny that Obama had ever said he would meet without preconditions with the president of Iran, when in fact the Democratic presidential nominee said that during the primary.” (Steve Huntley, Op-Ed, “Palin Eases GOP Jitters, You Betcha,” Chicago Sun-Times, 10/3/08)
Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody: “Oh, and by the way, she morphed into ‘Sarah Barracuda’ tonight by using Biden’s past statements on Obama against him. She had it all working tonight.” (David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
The Wall Street Journal: “The Republican nominee more than held her own on foreign policy in general, and in our view won on points at least on Iraq and Afghanistan. She didn’t let Mr. Biden get away with interpreting the comments of a U.S. general in Afghanistan as a rejection of Mr. McCain’s strategy. And on Iraq she exposed both Mr. Biden’s change of heart on the war, and his change of heart on Mr. Obama’s views on the war. At times Mr. Biden even looked a little frustrated — as if he couldn’t quite believe he had to share the stage with someone who hasn’t hung out with Dick Lugar or . . . Mike Mansfield back when the Senate was still a civil place. Or someone who says ‘doggonit.’” (Editorial, “Free Sarah Palin,” The Wall Street Journal, 10/3/08)
Joe Biden Gets A Key Fact Wrong
The Washington Times’ Stephan Dinan: “Democratic vice presidential nominee Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. appeared to incorrectly outline the constitutional role of the job he’s seeking in Thursday’s debate. In attacking Vice President Dick Cheney, Mr. Biden said the vice president’s only role is to support the president and to preside over the Senate ‘only in a time when in fact there’s a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.’ The Constitution, though, actually says the vice president is always president of the Senate and legal scholars say he has the right to preside at any time. Early vice presidents, such as Thomas Jefferson, actively exercised that role, the vice president still keeps offices at the Capitol, and scholars say it wasn’t until the middle of the 20th century that the vice president had an office at the executive office building.” (Stephan Dinan, “Biden Gets Veep Role Wrong,” The Washington Tim es, 10/3/08)
In The Headlines:
Anchorage Daily News: “Palin Hits Her Stride”
(Editorial, “Palin Hits Her Stride,” Anchorage Daily News, 10/3/08)
Christian Broadcasting Network: “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate”
(David Brody, “Palin Hurdles Over The Bar In VP Debate,” Christian Broadcasting Network’s “Brody File,” 10/3/08)
Denver Post: “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate.”
(Editorial, “Palin Has Fun, Holds Her Own In Tepid Veep Debate,” Denver Post, 10/3/08)
National Review: “Palin’s Triumph”
(Editorial, “Palin’s Triumph,” National Review, 10/3/08)
[New York] Daily News: “Sarah Palin Scores”
(Editorial, “Sarah Palin Scores,” [New York] Daily News, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Pit Bull Sarah Shows Her Bite”
(Geoff Earle, “Pit Bull Sarah Shows Her Bite,” New York Post, 10/3/08)
New York Post: “Sarah Scores!”
(Brendan Scott, “Sarah Scores!” New York Post, 10/3/08)
The New York Times: “The Palin Rebound”
(David Brooks, Op-Ed, “The Palin Rebound,” The New York Times, 10/3/08)
Politico: “You Betcha Sarah Palin Can Debate”
(Roger Simon, “You Betcha Sarah Palin Can Debate,” Politico, 10/2/08)
This was my favorite, from above:
“Joe Biden Gets A Key Fact Wrong
The Washington Times’ Stephan Dinan: “Democratic vice presidential nominee Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. appeared to incorrectly outline the constitutional role of the job he’s seeking in Thursday’s debate. In attacking Vice President Dick Cheney, Mr. Biden said the vice president’s only role is to support the president and to preside over the Senate ‘only in a time when in fact there’s a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.’ The Constitution, though, actually says the vice president is always president of the Senate and legal scholars say he has the right to preside at any time. Early vice presidents, such as Thomas Jefferson, actively exercised that role, the vice president still keeps offices at the Capitol, and scholars say it wasn’t until the middle of the 20th century that the vice president had an office at the executive office building.” (Stephan Dinan, “Biden Gets Veep Role Wrong,” The Washington Tim es, 10/3/08)
Yes
McCain is wrong on Global Warming.
McCain even hedges, himself.
McCain seems to think that it won’t hurt, to cut emissions, if cutting emissions gets us to alternative energy.
Man Made Global Warming is a hoax.
Time will prove me right on that one.
Sen. McCain supports scientific integrity, but Palin does not.
‘Sarah Palin puts polar bears on thin ice‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/sarah-palin-puts-polar-bears-on-thin-ice
“It turns out that Sarah Palin has played a starring role in the science fiction drama. The UK Guardian breaks the news.”
‘Palin fought safeguards for polar bears with studies by climate change sceptics· Some scientists cited had been funded by oil industry
Governor tries to overturn threatened species ruling’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/30/uselections2008.sarahpalin1
“The citation by Palin and her officials prompted complaints from Congress. One member, Brad Miller, dubbed the polar bear study phony science.
Palin told Miller: “Attempts to discredit scientists…simply because their analyses do not agree with your views, would be a disservice to this country.”
Miller now says that Palin’s use of the paper shows she differs greatly from John McCain, the Republican presidential contender, who has pressed for scientific integrity. “Turning to the cottage industry of scientists who are funded because they spread doubt about global warming is not integrity,” Miller said.”
Biden also lied on clean coal.
Biden also thinks that Hamas controls the West Bank.
econ,
Time has already proven that you are wrong re AGW.
ah! the cosmos is back with his usual meme.
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
Palin lied
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
What do you not understand about blah blah?
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
Palin lied
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
What do you not understand about blah blah?
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
Palin lied
hyperlink
hyperlink
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
What do you not understand about blah blah?
AGW
hyperlink
hyperlink
And mult-nic’d is back with his usual stupid ad hominems.
So what exactly does “kind of doesn’t matter” mean?
Maybe that CO2 is up ~800% and temperatures are…
Wait for it
…
Cooling.
Ahhhhhh, Better luck next time…
And SolDevVB again proves that he is unable to understand that CO2 is not the only climate forcing.
Polar bears are scary!
“As the Earth Cools”; starring Cosmos as the link prone, goofy, AGW worry wart. Also starring Regular as his nemesis, who is always poking fun at Cosmos’s serious mission to educate the earth’s inhabitants and to teach them that the world as we know it will end without immediate dramatic action in cutting back on energy use.
In the first episode, Cosmos is incensed that Gov Palin has described the proposed 2,000 acre drilling ANWR footprint as a “plot” and that she isn’t fighting hard enough for the polar bears.
Let’s listen in…
Thank you cosmos, for admiting that CO2 is not a problem, that global woarmming is a farce and that you are a Gore/(LYING)IPCC shill.
Very stand up of you.
*warming*
Polar bears are scary! They eat baby seals. Cosmos hates baby seals. Cosmos is anti-baby seal…
Damn baby seal hater.
Thank you cosmos, for admiting that CO2 is not a problem
Sol,
I’ve never thought you had a reading problem, but maybe you should re-read Cosmos’ comment.
“…CO2 is not the only climate forcing.”
Palin did well but got some facts wrong
Both candidates had some stumbles on foreign policy. Palin, in criticizing Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s Iraq policy, said that President Bush’s Iraq troop “surge” plan had worked and that U.S. troop levels in Iraq are now back at pre-surge levels.
In fact, there are 152,000 troops in Iraq. There were 137,000 troops there before the surge.
On domestic issues, Palin attacked Obama, accusing him of voting 94 times to either raise or fight against tax cuts. FactCheck.org, a non-partisan watchdog Web site, called the claim “misleading.”
According to FactCheck, Obama voted against proposed tax cuts 23 times. He also voted 11 times for increasing taxes on families earning more than $1 million a year to help pay for Head Start school nutrition programs.
Palin repeated a McCain campaign claim that Obama voted to raise taxes on Americans making as little as $42,000 a year, but that claim, too, is considered misleading.
Palin added that Alaska is building a “nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline which is North America’s largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets.”
In fact, no building has begun, no federal pipeline approval has been issued and actual construction is years away — if it ever happens.
She also appeared to misspeak when she said that when she and others in the state legislature found out that Alaska had some millions of dollars investment in Sudan, they called for divestment “to make sure we weren’t doing anything that would be seen as condoning the activities there in Darfur.”
There’s no evidence, however, that Palin had any part in the divestiture legislation, and one legislator who was involved said there’s been no sign of her.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/53412.html
With an ~800% increase in CO2 and the temperatures cooling, doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that CO2 doesn’t drive climate.
Do feel free to bow down to the Goricle and the lying IPCC though. Free country and all, be it economically socialist…
Y’all have a good weekend. I’m bouts ta jump in my ford and pump out some more global cooling CO2 on my commute home. Bundle up chillins.
Hey Ben-
I noticed you didn;t list the gaffes made by Biden.
Kinda selective cut and paste, huh?
“With an ~800% increase in CO2 and the temperatures cooling”
Well, since neither half of that statement has any truth to it …
Equal time lj – figure it is paid shill Paul’s job to do that. In fact, he already did.
Brought to by the ever fair Huffington post, here’s a video on Biden’s Gaffes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/mccain-hits-biden-gaffes_n_131245.html
(chortles)
bth-
I understand. I only want both sides to come out, solely for the truth as we can best figure it out. Currently, neither get my vote. Anyway, here is a list by factcheck. org
Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.
Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.
Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn’t address taxes at that income level.
Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain’s plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said “he wouldn’t even sit down” with the government of Spain. Actually, McCain didn’t reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.
Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.
For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, please read on to the Analysis section.
So this paper was not impressed? What a surprise. Their comments were likely written before the debate. This paper has demonstrated an anti Palin slant ever since day one.
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Folksy?
I want folksy from the lady at the donut shop or the feed and seed. NOT from the person who could end up running the world.
Well the word maverick is useless to McCain now.
And does Palin have ANY words of her own other than folksisms like ya know and “darn right”?
She’s a walking talking collection of right wing phraseology from Reagan’s “There you go again.” to Hannity’s “wave the white flag of surrender”
But hey? All that new won confidence? She has a standing invitation to be interviewed by Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow. Has she got the guts?
Well, you darn tootin, she does!
Check your mailbox Phantom.
“Joe Biden had decided to debate not his opponent but rather the top of the GOP ticket, his old friend John McCain.”
That IS his job in his capacity as running mate.
It is Sarah Palin’s job to attack Senator Obama. She couldn’t find time for that defending herself and John McCain.
Superficially, the debate was a draw. Though a careful parsing shows Biden winning on points.
But Palin NEEDED to gain ground, not hold it. So, strategically, she lost.
CHARGE 5 – “President Kennedy rescued my father from Kenyan obscurity and airlifted him to the American Dream.”
EVIDENCE – Senator Obama’s father came in September 1960, while EISENHOWER was President. SOURCE 1 = http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032902031.html
SOURCE 2 = http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/31/obamas-story-about-parents-selma-is-confused-fact-checker-writes/
COUNTER CLAIM – But his father did come to the U.S. so what is the big deal?
REBUTTAL – Senator Obama misrepresents historical events. No speech by President John F. Kennedy brought Senator Obama’s father to the U.S. in 1960. John F. Kennedy was not President in 1960, Dwight D. Eisenhower was President. The Senator is attempting to subtly equate himself with J.F.K., subconsciously implying he would be a similar President. Senator Obama, you are no Jack Kennedy.
VERDICT – SENATOR OBAMA, YOU ARE A LIAR
BlueJay, here is a folksy number….why don’t you go outside and play hide and go fuk yourself!
CHARGE 6 – “My Kenyan Grandmother has always been a Christian.”
EVIDENCE – Senator Obama’s Grandmother’s own interviews contradict this statement.
SOURCE 1 = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?ex=1335585600&en=f901477fd875c685&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all
SOURCE 2 = http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29154&only&rss
COUNTER CLAIM – What does it matter what Senator Obama’s African relatives do?
REBUTTAL –It goes to a person’s character and willingness to evade, distort, or rewrite history. Senator Obama’s Grandmother does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews (per Islamic law). Not to mention, Christianity does not allow for a woman to be one of 14 wives to 1 man. Senator Obama’s use of his Grandmother as an example of how ‘Christian’ his family is, in order to counter accusations of secretly being a Muslim, sustains the idea that the Senator is deliberately distorting the truth to cover-up associations and ‘fatherly attributes’ that he knows are problematic to his election, should he be forthcoming about them. His decision to make statements patently false in order to propagate a more ‘electable’ image speaks not only to his character but to his judgment. Distortions or edits to evidence that wholly misrepresent the truth is dishonest.
VERDICT – SENATOR OBAMA, YOU ARE A LIAR
Bad day ANTI?
YOU must not be hearing the right wing spin up.
Why, Sarah wiped the floor with Biden dontcha know?
Wishful thinking that as many times as it may be repeated, is simply not borne out by the facts.
Sarah won the right to remain on the ticket. But she didn’t advance it any. Energizing your base is great but it does not win elections. Palin is not an acquired taste. She doesn’t grow on you. You either love her going in or not at all.
BlueJay
Posted October 3, 2008 at 3:26 pm | Permalink
Bad day ANTI?
YOU must not be hearing the right wing spin up.
Why, Sarah wiped the floor with Biden dontcha know?
——–
Bad day? Yeah, didn’t you hear WE just bought a poop load of debt!
Palin did good. I don’t think though, that anyone “wiped the floor” with anyone.
Sarah won the right to remain on the ticket. But she didn’t advance it any. Energizing your base is great but it does not win elections. Palin is not an acquired taste. She doesn’t grow on you. You either love her going in or not at all.
——
At my base is a size 12 boot…it can’t be ‘energised’….I don’t think.
Your last sentence is agreeable.
In header:
“That appealing personality so on display at the GOP convention was back…”
——–
I found nothing “appealing” about her almost constant, phony smiling. Her winking? Her long bangs hanging in her eye, and moving when she blinked?
It’d be interesting to show snips of the video of her to people who didn’t know she is a VP candidate. What would they think about her?
“It’d be interesting to show snips of the video of her to people who didn’t know she is a VP candidate. What would they think about her?”
ANSWER: Governor Moonbeam
Actually, I thought both of them acquitted themselves well. I call it a draw.
“ANSWER: Governor Moonbeam”
Ah yes … good old Jerry Brown of California. Clinton never inhaled; Brown never EXHALED!
What is it with the dems and making up things about their personal history? Hillary claimed she was under fire at an airport (which was false). She claimed she was named for Edmund Hillary (which proved to be false.) Obama claimed he owed being born to the Selma marches (he was born 2 years before then). Obama claims the Kennedy airlift saved his father–proven not true.
Why do they feel it necessary to “embellish” details of their lives?
Joe Biden’s 14 Lies
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people’s health insurance coverage — they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation — he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won’t pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
http://www.johnmccain.com/McCainReport/Read.aspx?guid=343ba934-6417-4b65-ac9e-92348acb5e97
A good explanation of the tactics Palin uses to “charm” her audience.
‘Shooting From the Hip, With a Smile to Boot’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/style/features/2008/rhetoric/gallery.html?sid=ST2008093002732&s_pos=list
Parsing minutia Nathan.
A fancy way to say you are putting your own spin (honestly felt or otherwise) on things the average voter still to be won over really could not care less about.
But I’ll play a round.
“8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.”
Well? Palin was right there was she not? She didn’t dispute Biden on this. Was she paying attention?
But as I say, it doesn’t matter. The drawback to beating lowered expectations is that it isn’t much more than hitting a reset button. As I have also said, Palin isn’t the type who gets much chance from a second impression.
She was just wishing biden would mock her presentation style, so she could say ‘that’s the way reglar folks talk’.
I did see biden looking tickled a few times. Or, maybe he thought she was flirting with him instead of America?
Biden won, but Ellie May beat the spread.
BlueJay,
When someone makes several statements in 2 minutes, you don’t have enough time to address every one of them in your 90 seconds.
Simply because she didn’t dispute it doesn’t make it true. Logic 101.
I missed watching the debate and won’t likely view it on the net.
I’m reading the debate transcript now.
“Hey, can I call you Joe?” she asked.
That is inappropriate and flippant. The proper question is “Senator Biden, can I call you Joe?”
People she doesn’t respect she won’t use their professional title? Imagine her behaviour in the world, at the UN.
Some other reporter liked her winking.
Winking for what reason? Winking politician means trust? Wink at the police officer while getting a ticket? Wink at the judge in court?
Wink at the UN, why not!
The Pentagon doesn’t want people winking in that building at all with two wars raging!
Her opening statement included “as we try to figure out has this been a good time or a bad time in America’s economy”
That is not an appropriate statement. Without question $700 Billion Federal bailout means this economy is bad.
I’m going read gaffes by both Joe and Sarah, but those statements by her are alarming at the beginning.
Mrage,
Your thougts and their complete random nature continue to amaze me.
Well said.
And has quote/link from my 3:55 pm post.
‘Sarah Palin, Serial Winker‘
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2008/10/sarah_palin_serial_winker.html
“Here’s the big news: Sarah Palin has mainstreamed the political wink! She’s not just a winker, she’s a twinkler.
And a champion smile-talker. She would flash that same smile even if she were telling you that she’d just burned down your house. What other expressions can she do? Libby Copeland had a great line in her deconstruction of Palin’s expressiveness: “Palin is all emoticons.” “
Nathan
Your conversation is boring, move on. It always has been.
Mrage posted October 3, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I missed watching the debate and won’t likely view it on the net.
————
It’s worth watching, to see her beauty pageant, sportscaster style performance.
“Palin is all emoticons’
So, the CONS want to trade in Alfred E Neuman for a smiley face!
Mrage,
WOW! That has to be the first time I have ever seen you make suce a clear and precise thought. In one sentence no less.
Good for you. I don’t care if it was an insult or not, I like it.
CHARGE 9 – “My school in Indonesia was Christian.”
EVIDENCE – Senator Obama was registered as a Muslim at Meteng Primary School. The school offered Christian classes as well. Barry Soetoro did not attend them. He later spent 2 years in a Catholic school
SOURCE 1 = http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2007/01/31/the-obama-muslim-shell-game-catholic-school-docs-show-obama-registered-as-muslim/
SOURCE 2 = http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1801730/posts
COUNTER CLAIM – What does it matter that Senator Obama’s school was Islamic or Catholic?
REBUTTAL – Again, If there is no importance to the fact that Senator Obama practiced Islam as a child, then what is the motivation for lying about it publicly? Indonesia requires all students to study religion. Barry Soetoro was enrolled as a Muslim at the Menteng Primary School where he studied among other subjects, Islam. In 1969 Barry attended a Catholic School. This is the only schooling Senator Obama discusses, thus Meteng has been somewhat covered up. Why one would ask? The only conclusion that can be drawn from this scenario is that Senator Obama lied about this school and its subject matter for political expediency. In later comments the Senator stated he did not attend an Islamic school, but in his book “Dreams Of My Father” he states that he ‘got in trouble for making faces in Koranic studies’ and was disciplined by his mother. One would ask how many Catholic students remember being taught the Koran by their nuns.
VERDICT – SENATOR OBAMA, YOU ARE A LIAR
“Wilmington used to have a Katie’s restaurant – way back in the day – and it was in Little Italy, as is Union Street, but I’m almost positive Katie’s wasn’t on Union Street.”
Biden didnt say Katie’s IS/WAS on Union Street… merely that he was naming old “hang outs” from the “Day”.
Geez, some people will try HARD to find something to bitch about!!
Did the Moose-Dresser live up to her extremely low expectations?
“Ya betcha!”
What was Bible Spice’s reaction after Joe Biden choked up at the memory of losing his daughter and wife in a terrible car crash that nearly killed his two sons?
“Well, ya know, I’m a maverick!”
Is the Bullwinkle-Assassin capable of pronouncing the final “-ing” of any word?
“Drillin’ and deregulatin’ and fixin’ up the economy and keepin’ my best friend in the world — not my gay friend, I’m sayin’; my “friend” — from gettin’ married is what’s comin’ up with McPalin governin’ in that roundish office in the White House.”
Was there anyone anywhere who thought the Republic Party could come up with a national candidates who could make George WMD Bush seem like a reborn Demosthenes?
“Tell ya what. I’ll look for some examples and if I find some I’ll get back to ya.”
None but people such as the CONs who infest this forum got through the 90 minutes last night without cringing (pardon, “cringin’”) at the thought of this SnowBilly endin’ up a heartbeat away from 73-year-old John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) meetin’ up with the Grim Reaper.
“In 1969 Barry attended a Catholic School. This is the only schooling Senator Obama discusses,”
PERHAPS BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY SCHOOLING THAT MATTERED TO HIM??? HOW MANY 8 YER OLD KIDS DO YOU KNOW OF THAT PICK WHAT SCHOOL THEY WILL ATTEND???
YOU ARE GRASPING, IN DESPERATION, AT STRAWS!!
AND IN THE PROCESS, YOU ARE CREATING STRAW MEN, AND FISHING FOR RED HERRINGS…. GO TRY READING SOME FACTS FOR A CHANGE!! YOU ARE BECOMING EXTREMELY BIGOTED, AND A LOT BORING…
I think Nathan and Franklin are becoming one with each other.
In a debate, there are rules. Those rules include staying on topic. Biden followed those rules; Palin did not. Whenever a topic came up she didn’t like, she went off on a tangent, using mostly scripted sound bites. In a college debate, that would have cost her the debate.
However, in a political debate, one would think Palin would be more than happy to stay on topic. One wonders why she either didn’t or couldn’t. I found that very annoying. I also found annoying her attitude towards Biden. She was very combative, whereas Biden gave her more than enough room to maneuver, and could have called her numerous times on minor slip ups. That he didn’t, shows he treated her a lot better than she would be treated on the world stage.
Her winks and wiggled nose wont fool world leaders. She exceeded expectations, but those were low to start with. I give her credit for being a better debater than thought, but she is definitely not ready for world prime time.
Bottom line on gaffs? Both made plenty, but Biden came across as much more knowledgeable than Palin. Biden won on who is better prepared to be the VP.
Wow, the spinning on this thread makes ya dizzy enough to hurl. You guys need to have a drink before you have a coronary. Go on. Step away from the keyboard.
You too Cosmos. Get on your electric mo-ped, put your autographed picture of Al Gore in the basket on the front, and get on over to the bar and order one. Invite Regular and Sol.
dadman, you ain’t a father, are you? ’cause you shouldn’t be procreatin’.
Shouldn’t Governor Palin have said, “Senator Biden, MAY I call you Joe?”
She did when they first introduced, guess forseeing this question might arise.
I like me a woman that’s got a good job and a sturdy baby maker….uhm mmmmh…
Phantom, she said, “CAN I call you Joe?” It was the first of many grammatical errors. If she is someone who makes people feel like they identify with her, she is also proof that half of Americans are below average.
Phantom, she said, “CAN I call you Joe?” It was the first of many grammatical errors. If she is someone who makes people feel like they identify with her, she is also proof that half of Americans are below average.
——–
Whoopty freakin’ doo….Seriously, you lefties only make fun of her appearance and draw…That is sad…
ANTI — YOU CAN FIND ONE OF THOSE KINDS DOWN AT MICHELLE’S BEACH HOUSE, OR AT SHENANIGANS… AND NONE OF THEM ARE QUALIFIED TO BE V.P. EITHER!!! roflmao!!!
JM Walker,
I have been on a debate team, been in real debates, and many many more political debates.
If this were a “real” debate, it would be far too boring for 90% of the American public and would be far more structured.
You try to pick one rule about a debate being that you stay on topic and address a question and completely ignore the rest.
The simple truth is that this was not a debate in the sense of a professional debate or something that people do in competition.
It was an informal debate process where neither candidate had to answer the questions if they didn’t want to.
Palin felt that she had to spend time addressing certain things Biden said instead of answering a question.
So be it. You don’t like it? Fine. But don’t say she was not following the rules…
Chas
Posted October 3, 2008 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
ANTI — YOU CAN FIND ONE OF THOSE KINDS DOWN AT MICHELLE’S BEACH HOUSE, OR AT SHENANIGANS… AND NONE OF THEM ARE QUALIFIED TO BE V.P. EITHER!!! roflmao!!!
——-
How are they lookin’ down there Rev. Chas? Do they drain your wallet when you visit? ROFLMAO!!
i know a number of folks from Idaho, AND from Alaska…. NEVER met one yet that spoke in a half-southern drawl like Ms. Palin… Anybody have thoughts on that??
#
lindainks55
Posted October 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
Phantom, she said, “CAN I call you Joe?” It was the first of many grammatical errors. If she is someone who makes people feel like they identify with her, she is also proof that half of Americans are below average.
—————
Which half are you in Linda?
You are another that needs to go have a drink. Cosmos is there already. Look for the electric mo-ped with the basket on the front parked out front.
“tangled” gets it all wrong with –
“$Biden won, but Ellie May beat the spread.”
You are so wrong, “tangled!” And obviously you’re just one more bleeding-heart-librul-left-wing-salad-eatin’-socialist-terrorist-huggin’-tree-lovin’-leftist-loafer-wearin’-sprout-eatin’-gay-recruitin’-commie-pinko-collectivist-Marxist-Maoist-Stalinist-Hitlerite-bestiality-promoting-environment-worshipin’-Wiccan-coddlin’-sycophant-of-Beelzebub-lapdog-suckin’-the-air-out-of-newborn-babies-with-evil-abortion-trained-kitties-trained-by-George-Tiller-to-go-for-the-brains-just-to-distract-us-from-the-socialist-plot-to-reduce-the-speed-limit-to-65-miles-an-hour-apologist-for-all-that-is-evil-in-the-world-today!
It’s “Ellie Mae,” not “Ellie May!!!”
Nitwit.
half-southern drawl like Ms. Palin… Anybody have thoughts on that??
——
Not sure where your getting the southern part. I have worked with many contractors from Minnesota and northern Montana that have similar accents to Palin.
It doesnt cost anything to watch their TV commercials, Idiot!!
Monkey, again you forgot-
Sprout eating candy ass.
We need someone who will continue the policies of GW Bush!
Employment has diminished for nine consecutive months, resulting in the elimination of 760,000 jobs, according to the Labor Department report.
The American economy lost 159,000 jobs in September, the worst month of retrenchment in five years, the government reported on Friday, enhancing fears that an already pronounced downturn had entered a more painful stage that could last well into next year.
dadman posted October 3, 2008 at 3:05 pm
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska — she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it’s not a windfall profits tax.
—————-
Nathaniel posted October 3, 2008 at 3:54 pm
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska …
—————
BlueJay posted October 3, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska …
Well? Palin was right there was she not? She didn’t dispute Biden on this. Was she paying attention?
—————
Nathaniel posted October 3, 2008 at 4:08 pm
BlueJay,
When someone makes several statements in 2 minutes, you don’t have enough time to address every one of them in your 90 seconds.
Simply because she didn’t dispute it doesn’t make it true. Logic 101.
—————
‘Windfall tax lets Alaska rake in billions from Big Oil‘
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html
“Then last year, Palin introduced a graduated tax pegged to increased oil prices. The state Legislature modified her proposal to increase the state’s take even further.
…
The tax is set at its highest rate in Prudhoe Bay, where the state takes 25 percent of the net profit of a barrel when its price is at or below $52.
The percentage then escalates as oil prices rise over that benchmark. Alaska gets about $49 of a $120 barrel, not counting other fees.”
———–
Also from above link — every Alaskan gets $3,200 this year.
“Palin’s administration last week gained legislative approval for a special $1,200 payment to every Alaskan to help cope with gas prices, which are among the highest in the country.
That check will come on top of the annual dividend of about $2,000 that each resident could receive this year from an oil-wealth savings account.”
————
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news/economy/palin_oil/?postversion=2008100316
“In late 2007 Palin succeeded in raising the tax on oil companies from 22.5 to 25% of net profits. Alaska also added a clause increasing the tax for each dollar oil goes above $52 a barrel – essentially, a windfall profits tax.
Palin tax returns for 2006 and 2007 released
Sarah and Todd Palin had a gross income of $170,000 last year
The McCain-Palin campaign had said the tax returns would be released Monday, but it suddenly put them out Friday afternoon — a time long used by government to reveal embarrassing news because few people watch TV or read newspapers Friday evening and Saturday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27013588/
I think her accent has more of Scandinavian, Minnesotan kind of sound. The main character in the movie Fargo, sounded exactly like Palin. She grew up in Idaho where culturally they may have the same roots as they do in Minnesota.
I read somewhere that Palin’s mom’s accent sounded exactly like Sarah’s.
I only recall one sentence last night that was a “Palin sentence to nowhere”.
If she had a repeat performance (which she did not) of her Couric interview, I would submit that the random thoughts of Mrage would be ideal coverage of the Palin random speech generator. Ya know, kinda like an acid trip without the dangers to your brain.
The new right wing position on Global Climate Change is great. You can observe all of the obvious changes (even if they are cause by greenhouse gasses) and say, “Oops! Not a damn thing we can do! What a shame! We’re helpless.”
Palin vows to be more accessible
VP candidate says she’ll take more questions from voters and reporters
“I look forward to speaking to the media more and more every day and providing whatever access the media would want,” Palin said in an interview with Fox News.
Palin said she had been “annoyed” in her interviews with CBS News anchor Katie Couric and had been caught off guard when asked what newspapers and magazines she read and to name Supreme Court decisions she disagreed with — questions Palin appeared not to be able to answer.
Her responses, Palin said, were “an indication of being outside that Washington elite, outside of the media elite also.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27012723/
dadman posted October 3, 2008 at 3:05 pm
11. IRAQ: When[sic] Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they[sic] John McCain has been proven right.
—————–
Nathaniel posted October 3, 2008 at 3:54 pm
11. IRAQ: When[sic] Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”,…
—————
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2008b.html
BIDEN: John McCain and Dick Cheney said while I was saying we would not be greeted as liberators, we would not – this war would take a decade and not a day, not a week and not six months, we would not be out of there quickly. John McCain was saying the Sunnis and Shias got along with each other without reading the history of the last 700 years. John McCain said there would be enough oil to pay for this. John McCain has been dead wrong. I love him. As my mother would say, god love him, but he’s been dead wrong on the fundamental issues relating to the conduct of the war. Barack Obama has been right. There are the facts.
…
With regard to Iraq, I indicated it would be a mistake to — I gave the president the power. I voted for the power because he said he needed it not to go to war but to keep the United States, the UN in line, to keep sanctions on Iraq and not let them be lifted.
I, along with Dick Lugar, before we went to war, said if we were to go to war without our allies, without the kind of support we need, we’d be there for a decade and it’d cost us tens of billions of dollars. John McCain said, no, it was going to be OK.
…
The truth of the matter is, though, let’s go back to John McCain’s strategy. I never supported John McCain’s strategy on the war. John McCain said exactly what Dick Cheney said, go back and look at Barack Obama’s statements and mine. Go look at joebiden.com, contemporaneously, held hearings in the summer before we went to war, saying if we went to war, we would not be greeted as liberator, we would have a fight between Sunnis and Shias, we would be tied down for a decade and cost us hundreds of billions of dollars.
John McCain was saying the exact opposite. John McCain was lock- step with Dick Cheney at that point how this was going to be easy. So John McCain’s strategy in this war, not just whether or not to go, the actual conduct of the war has been absolutely wrong from the outset.
Posters here please take a deep breath and think about what is going on here.
The media is reporting poll results.
The red and blue teams are each arguing about the poll results.
Everyone is so concerned about the polls, as if the polls indicate anything, or mean anything.
Everyone here, like everyone being polled has an opinion. It’s not rocket science. It is not objective reasoning. I have not seen any clear measure or award methodology to support objective reasoning. By it’s very nature, subjectivity demonstrates a lack of objectivity.
So yes, it is like all of us having a-sholes and they all do stink (depending upon if you are on the red or blue team).
But look at us!
Arguing our opinions over the subjective opinions of those making the poll questions, and the subjective opinions of those responding to the poll question(s).
We are a media conditioned world.
All that matters is the objective results on November 4th.
Unless, of course, some of you intend to formulate your own opinion, based upon one or any number of these polls.
Biden won on content? HO-HO-HA-HA-HE-HE!
That’s a good one Rhonda! LMFAO!
The Eagle could stand to fire a few more of your inaccurate, story-telling to the point of LYING so-called “NEWS” Reporters!!!
BIDEN: Complained about “economic policies of the last eight years” that
led to “excessive deregulation.”
THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are
blaming for part of the financial crisis. The law allowed Wall Street
investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at
the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as
well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the
crisis today from being worse.
——
BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s
$5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage “will go straight
to the insurance company.”
THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it’s meant to pay for insurance.
That’s like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car
dealer.
——
BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and “wants to
give them another $4 billion tax cut.”
THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and
it’s misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all
corporations, and doesn’t single out any one industry for that benefit.
——
BIDEN: “As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major
magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry –
deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the
banking industry.”
THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of
what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries.
McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when
saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state
lines. In that context, he wrote: “Opening up the health insurance
market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the
last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative
products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.”
——
——
PALIN: “Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last
year for those families making only $42,000 a year.”
BIDEN: “The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to
raise taxes. The vote she’s referring to, John McCain voted the exact
same way.”
THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed
that President Bush’s tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If
that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as
little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on
the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget
resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.
Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin, Biden said the strangest and most ill-informed thing I have ever heard about Lebanon in my life. “When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, “Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.” Now what’s happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel.” [Emphasis added.]
What on Earth is he talking about? The United States and France may have kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon in an alternate universe, but nothing even remotely like that ever happened in this one.
Nobody – nobody – has ever kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Not the United States. Not France. Not Israel. And not the Lebanese. Nobody.
On Iran Biden made two blunders:
The first was a denial that the Ahmadinejad threats against Israel are serious given that ‘the theocracy’ controls the military. Here is the head of Iran’s theocracy calling for the extermination of Israel this week. The second was an outright lie denying Obama said he would meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions. Here is the video proof:
http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/2891-Biden-Hizballah-was-Kicked-Out-of-Lebanon.html
Rhonda you lie.
Lawmaker Accused of Fannie Mae Conflict of Interest
Friday, October 03, 2008
By Bill Sammon
WASHINGTON — Unqualified home buyers were not the only ones who benefitted from Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank’s efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae throughout the 1990s.
So did Frank’s partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.
Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank’s relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie’s assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie.
Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical.
“It’s absolutely a conflict,” said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute. “He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane?
“If this had been his ex-wife and he was Republican, I would bet every penny I have – or at least what’s not in the stock market – that this would be considered germane,” added Gainor, a T. Boone Pickens Fellow. “But everybody wants to avoid it because he’s gay. It’s the quintessential double standard.”
A top GOP House aide agreed.
“C’mon, he writes housing and banking laws and his boyfriend is a top exec at a firm that stands to gain from those laws?” the aide told FOX News. “No media ever takes note? Imagine what would happen if Frank’s political affiliation was R instead of D? Imagine what the media would say if [GOP former] Chairman [Mike] Oxley’s wife or [GOP presidential nominee John] McCain’s wife was a top exec at Fannie for a decade while they wrote the nation’s housing and banking laws.”
Frank’s office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Frank met Moses in 1987, the same year he became the first openly gay member of Congress.
“I am the only member of the congressional gay spouse caucus,” Moses wrote in the Washington Post in 1991. “On Capitol Hill, Barney always introduces me as his lover.”
The two lived together in a Washington home until they broke up in 1998, a few months after Moses ended his seven-year tenure at Fannie Mae, where he was the assistant director of product initiatives. According to National Mortgage News, Moses “helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs.”
Critics say such programs led to the mortgage meltdown that prompted last month’s government takeover of Fannie Mae and its financial cousin, Freddie Mac. The giant firms are blamed for spreading bad mortgages throughout the private financial sector.
Although Frank now blames Republicans for the failure of Fannie and Freddie, he spent years blocking GOP lawmakers from imposing tougher regulations on the mortgage giants. In 1991, the year Moses was hired by Fannie, the Boston Globe reported that Frank pushed the agency to loosen regulations on mortgages for two- and three-family homes, even though they were defaulting at twice and five times the rate of single homes, respectively.
Three years later, President Clinton’s Department of Housing and Urban Development tried to impose a new regulation on Fannie, but was thwarted by Frank. Clinton now blames such Democrats for planting the seeds of today’s economic crisis.
“I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president, to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,” Clinton said recently.
Bill Sammon is FOX News’ Washington Deputy Managing Editor.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432501,00.html
American_Way posted October 3, 2008 at 6:01 pm
“Everyone is so concerned about the polls, as if the polls indicate anything, or mean anything.”
——–
If polls don’t mean anything, and don’t indicate anything, WHY did the McCain campaign give up on Michigan?
Good post American.
Ole Barney is in it up to his ears.
2003: the Bush Administration recommended what the NY Times called “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.” This change was to move governmental supervision of two of the primary agents guaranteeing subprime loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury. The changes were generally opposed along Party lines and eventually failed to happen.
‘
‘
‘
‘
Representative Barney Frank(D-MA) claimed of the thrifts “These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
Nathaniel,
What do McCain and Palin call a tax that increases when the market price rises?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/10/palin-charmed-biden-won-on-content/#comment-439214
‘From pork to petrodollars’
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12060464
“Sarah Palin’s home state is awash with money
JOHN MCCAIN’S decision to anoint Sarah Palin as his running-mate looks eccentric for many reasons. Not the least is economic principle. Thanks in part to Mrs Palin, Alaska’s economy is built on two things that Mr McCain has spent the last few years railing against.
The first is federal spending, especially the little-scrutinised grants known as earmarks. Between 1996 and 2006 per-capita federal spending in Alaska rose from 38% above the national average to 71% above.
…
Mrs Palin has been less single-minded in her pursuit of pork than other Alaskan politicians (which is, admittedly, setting the bar pretty high). But she can take credit for the other pillar of Alaska’s economy: windfall taxes. Last year she championed a tax hike on oil companies which is helping bring in huge sums—more than $10 billion in the fiscal year that ended in June, according to the companies that pay them.”
HA!
I forgot who caught it last night during the debate.
Obiden?
And SOMEONE needs to find a link to McCain crowing about Sarah’s survival.
“How about her performance last night? Engh?
ENGH?
I guess since he knows he is gonna lose, McCain is auditioning to play the Penguin in some future Batman pic.
The audio is better…
“”Could I begin by asking you very briefly, how about Sarah Palin last night, heh? How ’bout her, eh? How ’bout the job she did, eh?,” McCain said”
‘Pundits Blow Debate Analysis (Again)‘
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003870173
“Most say Palin did very well. Polls show viewers gave it to Biden — in a landslide. Yet the mainstream outlets wonder why so many have lost respect for their judgment. The voters are apparently not buying “aw shucks, wink, you betcha” as enough of a qualification for the presidency. Yet for many in the punditocracy that’s just enough.”
The funniest, and most revealing, moment in Howard Kurtz’s lengthy debate wrapup at The Washington Post today comes about halfway through it. After hailing Palin’s performance and quoting numerous mainstream pundits attesting to same, all to suggest that she succeeded in stopping the bleeding, Kurtz dryly posts the following WITHOUT comment:
CNN’s insta-poll: Biden, 51 to 36.
CBS survey of uncommitted: Biden, 46 to 21. ”
More at link.
Oh wow.
Are there ANY women out there who plan to vote for McCain/Palin because Palin is a woman? Or because you are angry at how Senator Clinton was treated?
Please, think again. For the sake of not dragging women backward 50 years?
This is from a love note penned by Republican flack Rich Lowry on Palin’s performance.
“I’m sure I’m not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, “Hey, I think she just winked at me.” And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can’t be learned; it’s either something you have or you don’t, and man, she’s got it.”
Ewww.
Just ewww.
And THIS teasing little winkster is who McCain gave women in Clinton’s place??
PDS in full swing again I see.
As John Hinderaker of Powerline put it
“Palin is a phenomenon in part because she drives liberals around the bend. Currently, they are obsessed with the fact that she WINKED last night.”.
“Six winks?”
“Yeah. Did you see? Six. I counted six.”
“You were watching closely.”
“Well, I was counting.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODQ0NWQzODAyMWFlYTkzMDRiYmYzNDU4OWE3M2YzZDY=
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODQ0NWQzODAyMWFlYTkzMDRiYmYzNDU4OWE3M2YzZDY=
BWAAAAHAHHHHAAAAAA!!
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODQ0NWQzODAyMWFlYTkzMDRiYmYzNDU4OWE3M2YzZDY=
copy paste malfunction.
Lousy keyboard cowboys.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021679.php
Yikes!
I must have been posting when this one happened.
Tina Fey is gonna have a BLAST with this!
Hell, all Palin DIDN’T do to demean women was blow a kiss and flash a little sidelong glance or hairflip! Tina Fey will outPalin Palin!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/03/inris-rich-lowry-palin-se_n_131735.html
JR’s just spinning the soles off his Chuck Taylors.
Round the bend hell, JR’s done gone round the mountain.
Chucklesnort.
It’s….cute I guess.
To older cons.
To me?
It’s creepy in a Darth Cougar kinda way.
BeeJay
She wasn’t demeaning women dude, she was cranking with Bidens head. It’s a miracle he didn’t say something really stupid. They must have had him on Ritalin last night. Of course all of that John Kerry inspired Botox may have just had him numbed down.
Hey Heckler?
Could you almost swear she was mouthing “call me!” to you?
BJ it happened so quickly and was so genuine that the audience liked it. It was directed to her father who she gave credit for the way she was raised. An honest moment and only the SNLers saw anything funny about it and there aren’t many of those left anyway. Freeze it in time and it is a long wink.
You are really reaching now.
BJ
I didnt watch it. Can’t watch debates. They piss me off, regardless of who’s on. They just insult a guys intelligence. But that’s politics. I just tune in to the postmortems, it’s more entertaining.
Sheesh is that a wink or a snarl? Both?
No wonder she is generating con soft porn.
“That appealing personality so on display at the GOP convention was back, too, as the self-described “Main Streeter” punctuated her praise for McCain and her populist talking points with folksy phrases like “bless their hearts” and “darn right.”
Am I missing something? She absolutely nauseates me.
Mary
America nauseates you.
Mary a problem many liberals have with Palin is that she is so real. She hasn’t sacrificed her femininity for a hard persona. She is realistic and convincing in what she says. You feel she is with you in dealing with problems in your own life.
She in convincing in what she says, yes, but too bad most of her facts are wrong.
Gosh darn it!
#
Heckler
Posted October 3, 2008 at 7:58 pm | Permalink
Mary
America nauseates you.
——————
heh heh
Mary has turned more curmudgeon than most men do. :D
#
Nathaniel
Posted October 3, 2008 at 4:57 pm | Permalink
JM Walker,
It was an informal debate process where neither candidate had to answer the questions if they didn’t want to.
Palin felt that she had to spend time addressing certain things Biden said instead of answering a question.
So be it. You don’t like it? Fine. But don’t say she was not following the rules…
======================================================
Having been on debate teams as well, I understand there are rules. I also understand this was a political debate. But refusing to follow the rules, then sanctioning that action, sounds to me like convenience at its zenith.
So, according to you, there are basically NO rules governing political debates. Talk about what you want, when you want. I’ll remember that, Nathan, when the next debate begins. Amazing, simply amazing. And this coming from a United States Marine.
There are no rules covering political debates.
“Mary a problem many liberals have with Palin is that she is so real. She hasn’t sacrificed her femininity for a hard persona. She is realistic and convincing in what she says. You feel she is with you in dealing with problems in your own life.”
I don’t feel she’s “with me” in anything.
She has openly lied about her record and last night she refused to stay on topic when she wasn’t sure of what to say. Her “gosh darn” folksiness is too contrived for me.
I think it would be pretty damn scary if she was a heartbeat away from the presidency. “You betch ya” that she’s an airhead.
“Mary
America nauseates you.”
Care to be specific, Heckler?
Well, here’s the key to who won the ‘debate’:
Will George W Bush and John S McCain give the McCain campaign permission to turn Sarah Palin loose now?
If the McCain campaign turns her loose, she won.
If they don’t, she lost.
Watch your favorite media outlet and spot the consensus winner!
okobserver posted October 3, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Mary a problem many liberals have with Palin is that she is so real. She hasn’t sacrificed her femininity for a hard persona. She is realistic and convincing in what she says. You feel she is with you in dealing with problems in your own life.
————–
She’s as “real” as the bubbly TV sportscasters and beauty queens. NOT.
‘Shooting From the Hip, With a Smile to Boot‘
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/style/features/2008/rhetoric/gallery.html?sid=ST2008093002732&s_pos=list
“But there’s a lot more at work. It starts with the way Palin’s delivery allows her to leap through the camera into your living room. Perhaps in part because of her background as a television reporter and beauty pageant competitor, she seems to understand how the camera works.
“What she knows is that the camera is a thief,” says Republican strategist Ron Bonjean, who has worked for former House speaker Dennis Hastert and former Senate majority leader Trent Lott, among others. “The camera will steal your emotions and make you flat, and what she’s doing is over-emphasizing her emotions, over-emphasizing her delivery, in order to get that realness across to the camera.”
…
There’s a consistency to Palin’s appeal — if you go back and look at old clips of her, you see many of the same stylistic elements — the warmth and the eager delivery, the voice that drops and rises emphatically, the dropped g’s.
“That’s been her bread and butter for 20 years, from the day she sat down in front of the TV cameras to do her sportscasting,” says Anchorage-based pollster Ivan Moore. “Her success in her political career has been based on being able to project this enormously friendly, enormously appealing physical presence — and, some people would argue, use it to conceal this very much more ruthless and nakedly political character.”
She and McCain offer no realistic solutions to the issues we face in this country. They talk about cutting spending and ridding Washington and Wall Street of waste and corruption..my questions is this..how exactly do they propose to do that? I haven’t heard a specific plan yet. McCain has been in the senate for 26 years and hasn’t made a difference. He has supported Bush and his policies the last 8 years and look at the mess we’re in. His idea of how to fix health care illustrates that he has absolutly no insight into the problem..and neither does she.
The thing that irked me the most was when she laughed and made a joke about government subsidized health care is something that no one would want…does that mean she wants to see the dismanteling of Medicare, Medicaid, and Verteran’s health benefits?
How is a $5,000 tax break supposed to make it possible for average people to buy their own insurance when you consider that the average monthy premium for a family is $1,600 per month?
Please, tell me how it’s supposed to work.
She and McCain are NOT in touch with average Americans at all…and talking and using vocabulary like an average American (whatever that is) doesn’t make it so.
Jesus, Americans need to wake up, quit listening to rhetoric ad spin, and realize we can’t afford four more years of the same kind of poor leadership we’ve had the for the last eight. Don’t be stupid.
does that mean she wants to see the dismanteling of Medicare, Medicaid, and Verteran’s health benefits?
Possibly so. Rachel Maddow traced the source of Reagan quote she used. Turns out, Ron was railing against what eventually became Medicare in 1961.
Chaaaannnge, chaannngge, chaaannnggge…
Obama means Chaaannnnggge.
But what change Fluffy? Any specifics?
He doesn’t saaaayyyy. He doesn’t knoooow. But it’s chaaannnggge.
But what change Fluffy? Any specifics?
After that shucky-darn collection of vapid talking points from Miss Wasilla (of which you apparently approved), you’re complaining about specifics?
I thought Biden was better with his talking points than Palin. He was able to make his artificial pre-planned talking points sound more off the cuff. He should be able to do that though. He has about 30 years in the Senate.
Chaaannnnggge.
We have seen Palin’s swan song.
She had one debate. Now, she will go to rallies.
Made up of people who were already going to vote for McCain. She will go only to friendly interviews which will only be heard by people who were already going to vote for McCain (or her). She adds nothing further to McCain’s cause.
And McCain is running behind. He is now out of options.
McCain will have to gamble on going nasty.
(Palin already came off as a little edgy last night)
McCain will have to gamble that he can attack and inflict damage that will outweigh the perception that he is running a negative campaign.
Palin? Just fodder for Tina Fey now. More people will laugh at Palin as depicted by Tina Fey then will decide to vote for her based on last night.
JMWalker posted October 3, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I think Nathan and Franklin are becoming one with each other.
In a debate, there are rules. Those rules include staying on topic. Biden followed those rules; Palin did not. Whenever a topic came up she didn’t like, she went off on a tangent, using mostly scripted sound bites. In a college debate, that would have cost her the debate.
However, in a political debate, one would think Palin would be more than happy to stay on topic. One wonders why she either didn’t or couldn’t. I found that very annoying.
———–
She also went off-topic in the Alaska Gov debates.
It seems to be part of her strategy to deal with being uninformed and unable to answer questions.
And by saying early last night that she would go off-topic, she basically stopped Biden from trying to get her to stay on-topic.
What is up with Biden’s eyebrows? Is he part Vulcan? If he ever want to make some extra bucks, Star Trek is calling. He could make a very convincing Vulcan diplomat with hardly any makeup.
I like Obama’s ideas on making health care affordable and accessable to every American..and he’s been very specific about how to make it happen..unlike McCain. He wants a government subsidized policy that would be affordable to those who don’t have access to employer subsidized health insurance..one that couldn’t discriminate or raise premiums due to pre-existing conditions. He also has good ideas about how to bring down the cost of health care, which is totally out of control.
I like his idea of closing loopholes and taxing heavily the corporations who take their manufacturing plants out of the country and giving more breaks to the companies who keep jobs in the USA. I like his idea about renegotiating NAFTA.
McCain hasn’t come up with anything new to turn things around, he’s just rewrapping the same old Republican policies that have lead the country to the crisis we’re in right now…every politican promises to cut spending and not raise taxes…what in McCain’s record suggests he’d follow through on that promise?
“What is up with Biden’s eyebrows? Is he part Vulcan? If he ever want to make some extra bucks, Star Trek is calling. He could make a very convincing Vulcan diplomat with hardly any makeup.”
Ever notice that when the cons run out of talking points, they try to distract with personal insults?
Why don’t you bring something intelligent to the table for a change, Out?
We have turned America’s values on their ear. It used to be that saving for the future was encourage and admired. We repaired old things instead of throwing them away. We were thrifty. Now, we are just part of the “economy” encouraged to consume consume, consume. Don’t have the money? You don’t need it. Put it on the credit card. Maxed that baby out? Here’s another.
A lot of folk are going to learn life lessons before this thing shakes out.
Hey Mary why don’t you go crawl back in your hole with your Sarah Palin voodoo doll.
I was noticing that too Mary.
I listened to talk radio today.
To hear them, you’d have thought Palin sent Biden fleeing the stage.
But we don’t see that wishful thinking reflected here.
It IS a Friday when posts are normally down.
But if the cons REALLY thought Sarah hit it out of the park?
They would have ALL been here crowing about it ad nauseum.
What we see instead is a few of them trying to convince THEMSELVES and anyone that might listen that Palin won or made a difference.
#
Regular
Posted October 3, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Permalink
There are no rules covering political debates.
========================================================
Excellent!!! So anybody can substitute anything that’s on their mind for any question poised by the moderator. Why even have a moderator then? Why even have a debate? Why not just give each debater 45 minutes to yak away on any subject they want?
Oh, wait, there are no rules, so each debater can interrupt the other one at any time the want. Kinda like a two person anarchy, huh? Hell, I’m thinkin’, ya, that each debater could bring in WMD, and just wipe the other one out. After all, no rules! That does remind me, though, of the Republican party: no rules . . . no plans . . . no brains. I can see where you come up with this nonsense.
See what I mean?
Outlander is unusually nasty.
He knows. He wants to convince himself otherwise, but he knows.
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2008b.html
“It will be divided roughly into five-minute segments. Each candidate will have 90 seconds to respond to a direct question and then an additional two minutes for rebuttal and follow-up.”
I know, when backed into a corner, they ALWAYS resort to insults and put downs…typical. You can’t have an intelligent conversation with a neocon, they only know how to insult those who don’t agree with them because they can’t come up an intelligent argument.
It’s obvious who won the debate. Right wingers couldn’t recognise substance if it bite them in the ass.
“Oh look…wasn’t it SWEET when she was holding her little retarded baby on stage after the debate?”
“Am I missing something? She absolutely nauseates me.” – Mary Caruso on Sarah Palin
———
Intelligent arguments with Mary.
Words of Rush Limbaugh. Said in an article saying Palin blew Biden off the stage.
“He’s Al Davis. Al Davis still thinks the Oakland Raiders compete for the Super Bowl every year. He still thinks he’s got a quarterback, Jim Plunkett or Daryle Lamonica out there throwing the ball 80 yards down the field. He thinks he’s still got all of his great wide receivers out there.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I read an explosion on Al Davis by Warren Sapp earlier today, where he used the exact same words . . . before Rush was even on the air. I’m still trying to find it. I think it was either USA today, or MSN.
It was Fox Sports:
“Al Davis knows football, it’s just ’60s and ’70s football,” Sapp said on Showtime’s “Inside the NFL. “That’s what it is. He’s thinking that Cliff Branch is outside and (Jim) Plunkett is dropping back and you can throw it 80 yards down the field — deep ball, deep ball, deep ball.”
====================================================
Compare the two and tell me Rush didn’t copy Warren. Way too similar. Rush is a phony.
“Chaaaannnge, chaannngge, chaaannnggge…
Obama means Chaaannnnggge.
But what change Fluffy? Any specifics?
He doesn’t saaaayyyy. He doesn’t knoooow. But it’s chaaannnggge.”
Intelligent arguments with Outlander.
You know old Rush is getting desperate when he retreats into football.
YOu should ask Joe Biden’ JM. I undersand that he knows a thing or two about plagiarism.
Mary wouldn’t know satire if it bit her in the ahem… rear.
Sara Plain IS satire, Out.
“Palin”
Good nite, sleep tight.
OK. Enough fun for the evening. Thanks for the workout Mary. No hard feelings from this end. I hope you don’t have any either.
God bless you and yours.
I’m out.
JM Walker: I looked at Rush’s website. He said all that in reference to McCain not understanding what he is up against in the election.
It seems to be he took something he heard and applied it to another situation….the election. I’m not necessarily up on plagiarism, but I’m not his statement qualifies.
#
outlander
Posted October 3, 2008 at 9:56 pm | Permalink
YOu should ask Joe Biden’ JM. I undersand that he knows a thing or two about plagiarism.
========================================================
. . .and Rush jumped all over him for it, didn’t he. What’s good for the goose . . .
#
Deb
Posted October 3, 2008 at 10:13 pm | Permalink
JM Walker: I looked at Rush’s website. He said all that in reference to McCain not understanding what he is up against in the election.
It seems to be he took something he heard and applied it to another situation….the election. I’m not necessarily up on plagiarism, but I’m not his statement qualifies.
================================================
Applying someone else’s words to any situation is still plagiarism. Rush is guilty, and that is hypocrisy. But when one looks at his drug addiction, the number of wives he’s gone through, it doesn’t take much of an imagination to understand that a hypocrite is what he is.
Darn Walker you must have a thing for middle-aged fat men. You talk more about Rush, than Rush.
But I guess everyone has something that irrates them to no end. Rush must do it for you.
Do you post about Rush, to make you feel better? Are you hoping for fellow liberal thinkers to commiserate with you?
Are you hoping to incite some Rush fans?
Or is it infatuation?
I am having a difficult time seeing where “Palin charmed”. She definitely sucked less this time than in her interview with Couric. No winner though.
Seriously, should she be one heatbeat away from the nuke-ya-lar button? Please.
Sarah won 2nd place in a beauty contest, and like in the game Monopoly, she should take her 10 dollars and go home.
Also, Todd and Sarah Palin, have 1.2 million dollars in assests. Not exactly middle class, if you ask me…
#
American_Way
Posted October 3, 2008 at 10:34 pm | Permalink
Darn Walker you must have a thing for middle-aged fat men. You talk more about Rush, than Rush.
But I guess everyone has something that irrates them to no end. Rush must do it for you.
Do you post about Rush, to make you feel better? Are you hoping for fellow liberal thinkers to commiserate with you?
Are you hoping to incite some Rush fans?
Or is it infatuation?
======================================================
Pure jealousy: I always wanted to be an old fat guy lying his way to a 400 million dollar drug store:-)
Rebuttal from the cons:
crickets chirping… crick, crick, crick… etc…
“Seriously, should she be one heatbeat away from the nuke-ya-lar button?”
Better than Biden who only has a few heartbeats left! Besides, he would forget where he put the football (black briefcase containing nuke launch codes).
And if Biden plagiarized the codes, heck, he could never shoot em off! (of course that might be a positive)
And I know the feminists no longer support feminism, now that the only female candidate is a republican, but I sometimes wonder if maybe it might be a good thing to have a woman as Commander in Chief.
Maybe slower to react to anger, maybe think longer and harder about sending people into combat. And maybe slower, more thoughtful about using weapons of mass destruction.
Not as much male testosterone. Something to be gained from thinking from both sides of the brain housing group.
“Pure jealousy”
Now that I completely understand. For what it’s worth, I haven’t been able to listen to more than a few minutes of his show for years. I really thought he would be a goner when Hillary (excuse me) Bill Clinton left office. I thought that was the rage which brought his thunder.
Nope. He can bitch more than a sailor on ship confinement stuck on pots and pans in the scullery.
But God bless him anyway, and his freedom to speak.
Amway,
Did you bring a rag to deal with all your angry spittle? Dude, your dudette got her butt kicked. Very simple, get used to it. Okay?
The moderator in the debate was no doubt subdued by pre debate, right wing attacks.
This was the only chance for someone to ask just what books it was that Sarah Palin would ban.
Well, unless she takes the invitation for a non con interview anyway.
I see the crats are still licking the salty, white ass of Joe Biden from last night’s debate.
Wonder if they ever disinfect their tongues from all that butt worshiping they do with Democrapic politicians?
I find it somewhat amusing, how so many right wing talk radio pie holes know the contents of a book that isnt even finished, let alone published!
How do they do that? Did somebody hack into Gwen’s computer?
I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the debate was over, I felt like a restaurant patron who had just been flirted with for 90 minutes straight by a 45-year-old waitress fishing for tips. The blown kiss at the beginning was just the beginning. Did anyone here actually count the number of winks and neck-flashes Palin gave the cameras? It’s really pathetic for her to self-consciously try that hard to be seductive and fail, when all I ever wanted from her was a decent meal. Which I didn’t get.
#
Regular
Posted October 4, 2008 at 12:11 am | Permalink
I see the crats are still licking the salty, white ass of Joe Biden from last night’s debate.
Wonder if they ever disinfect their tongues from all that butt worshiping they do with Democrapic politicians?
========================================================
Wonder if the ‘pubes have their three-holer blowup dolls of Palin perched on the mantle for worship, a**ho*e.
#
Jed
Posted October 4, 2008 at 2:26 am | Permalink
It’s really pathetic for her to self-consciously try that hard to be seductive and fail, when all I ever wanted from her was a decent meal. Which I didn’t get.
========================================================
Her moose pie recipe can be had at http://www.palinator.com
Any bonehead neo-con can buy http://www.palinator.com from deut65@yahoo.com
If Regular, Max, Franklin, bjb, Nathan, Hank, Okobserver, and a few others get together (assuming, of course, they are more than a single entity), they could buy the URL, http://www.palinator.com , and palinate all day long. They could sing songs like, “We are the Sheeple”, “If I had a Brainstem”, “The Days of Wine and Shopping Carts”, and put them on the net.
Wouldn’t that be just wonderful? I know for a fact I wouldn’t go there.
Debate analysis: Palin spoke at 10th-grade level, Biden at eighth
* Story Highlights
* Language monitoring service says Palin spoke at 9.5, Biden at 7.8
* Candidates tied at sentences per paragraph and letters per word
* Higher grade level doesn’t mean a better sentence, expert says
* Next Article in Politics »
Grade level: Biden, 7.8; Palin, 9.5 (Newspapers are typically written to a sixth-grade reading level.)
Sentences per paragraph: statistically tied at 2.7 for Biden and 2.6 for Palin.
Letters per word: tied at 4.4.
Ease of reading: Biden, 66.7 (with 100 being the easiest to read or hear), versus 62.4 for Palin.
The analysis said Abraham Lincoln spoke at an 11th-grade level during his seven debates in 1858 against incumbent Stephen A. Douglas in their race for a Senate seat from Illinois.
But higher grade level doesn’t necessarily mean better sentence, Payack said. He pointed to Palin’s second-to-last sentence in the debate, which the formula put at a grade level of 18.3:
“What I would do, also, if that were ever to happen, though, is to continue the good work he is so committed to of putting government back on the side of the people and get rid of the greed and corruption on Wall Street and in Washington,” Palin said.
“When she said it, it sounded good, but on paper it’s a completely different animal,” Payack said. “It’s like, what is that?”
But Biden had his own challenging moments, such as this 32-word gem, rated grade 15.6: “The middle class under John McCain’s tax proposal, 100 million families, middle-class families, households to be precise, they got not a single change; they got not a single break in taxes.”
more at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.words/?iref=mpstoryview
JM,
Moose pie? Uh, no thanks. I think I stepped in one of those once, in the Canadaian lake country.
Maybe a Crat will have something intellectual to say today?
Naw, ain’t gonna happen.
It’s a great day to stop by the Obama Headquaters and pick up yard signs, bumper stickers, lapel pins and literature.
KDP Fourth District Field Office
1725 Douglas
Wichita, KS
316.262.7534
Or at the Democratic HQ at
1064 N Waco
20 years of the last 28 = Republican Presindent
12 years of the last 15 = Republican controlled congress
the last 8 years under a Republican Presindent
6 of those years with a Republican congress
The Republican Leadership as lead us to where we are today in this country. Their is plendty of blame to go around, but the Republicans have had the leadership power and must own it.
To redeem themselfs they offer Palin.
Not a very smart bunch.
And they are definitely not the America 1st crowd now are they.
Good summary of how we got to where we are, are you new in these parts Reign?
What a nice site, been surfing on it for the whole night and day and i neva got bored for a single minute. Keep up your good work and all of the best in everything you do! :-)
I have admire your unselfishness in taking the time to make this web site.
Our site is cool, but also yours is very nice too
Recommend this site for great pleasure.
I really enjoy looking through your website
My god u kept me entertained.
Informative professional site, whatmore can i say!!
So very glad I found this truly great site :-)
I like your website; I will share this with friends